1
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,159
Speaker 1: Quality times, but Joseph's gotten more. There are certain places

2
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: in California that I just will not go any longer

3
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,280
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. It's one of these things where,

4
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,959
Speaker 1: first off, I'm in fear of my life to go

5
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,640
Speaker 1: back to certain locations within LA. It's not the same

6
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,520
Speaker 1: as it was years and years ago. I don't even

7
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: like to go to the beach down there when I'm

8
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 1: in town and I have to go out there with

9
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,519
Speaker 1: some frequency because I have to do television and that

10
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Interestingly enough, many of my friends that

11
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: formerly worked in LA now have migrated to the South.

12
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 1: So I've got friends in Austin, and I've got friends

13
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: in Nashville and of course in Atlanta that were formerly

14
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,520
Speaker 1: of LA. But there is one place in California I

15
00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: would not hesitate to go back to, and it's right

16
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: up there near the California Oregon border. It is arguably,

17
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 1: whether you're in the mid part of the state or

18
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,480
Speaker 1: over to the coast, it is arguably one of the

19
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,680
Speaker 1: most beautiful locations in the United States. You know, people

20
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,800
Speaker 1: throw around the term breathtaking. There are certain places there.

21
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: But today we're going to talk about the time that

22
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 1: horror visited this absolutely gorgeous landscape. A case from back

23
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four, a cold case has now been

24
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: solved using cutting edge technology. For my friends at Athram,

25
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scotten Morgan and this is body Bags. We

26
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: were at the base of Mount Shasta and for those

27
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: of you guys that have ever seen the Cascade Range,

28
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 1: it is it's just absolutely breathtaking. I mean, just something

29
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 1: that most people can't even fathom if you haven't been

30
00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,040
Speaker 1: there in person, you see pictures of it. He just

31
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 1: doesn't do it justice.

32
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 2: A lot of people are going to recognize the name

33
00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 2: Shasta County crime people who follow crime stories because of

34
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,960
Speaker 2: the Sherry Peppini case came out of Shasta County. So

35
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 2: you're talking about northern California, and that's when I have

36
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 2: a story. That's the first thing I just try to

37
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 2: do is find something relatable and anyway, that's what I

38
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,080
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, Sherry Peppinie, Shasta County got this in

39
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:41,440
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four in Shasta County there was a crime

40
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,119
Speaker 2: that went cold even though they had plenty of evidence.

41
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,079
Speaker 2: Even though they had plenty of evidence, they had DNA,

42
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,040
Speaker 2: which I really need you to break down for me

43
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 2: because I'm looking over the story and obviously, you know

44
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 2: it went cold because we wouldn't be told talking about

45
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 2: the case from eighty four and at them right now

46
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 2: if it didn't. But here we have a young man

47
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 2: eighteen years old, his name is Terrence Aren't and he

48
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,880
Speaker 2: has been murdered, he's been shot to death. And his date,

49
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 2: his girlfriend, who is unnamed, even all these years later,

50
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,639
Speaker 2: she was eighteen at the time she was raped. And

51
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 2: you know, Joe, when we have stories over the last

52
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 2: twenty years, rape is rarely used as a term. They'll

53
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 2: say they being journalist sexually assaulted, so it's a sexual assault,

54
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 2: and I think that actually diminishes what took place because

55
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 2: a sexual assault can be, based on the interpretation of

56
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 2: the last several years, could be anything from Kuba Gooding

57
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 2: Junior pinching a woman's butte at karaoke bar in New

58
00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 2: York up to a rape. There's a big difference. So

59
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 2: I wish there would be a better explanation of what

60
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 2: we're dealing with here, because a rape and a butt

61
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 2: pinch are two totally different things.

62
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this I think in my estimation, and this

63
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: is what makes this you know, people throw around, they'll

64
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:22,479
Speaker 1: use a they'll use the term hero like a punchline. Now, yeah,

65
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,839
Speaker 1: when people are not Maybe people are exceptional, but not

66
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 1: everybody can be a hero. Right again, it goes back

67
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,719
Speaker 1: to the idea of intellectual laziness. Many times you talked

68
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: about heroes. We're talking about a woman, a young lady

69
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:47,799
Speaker 1: eighteen years old, that apparently was witness to I can't

70
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 1: say that they were, you know, romantically involved necessarily. I'm

71
00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: referring to the victim, mister Arnt. Can't say that they

72
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: were deeply in love or anything. But I do know

73
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 1: that they were sitting in a parked car, having conversation

74
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,880
Speaker 1: in a parking lot where a basketball tournament was going on.

75
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 1: And Dave after after mister Arndt is executed, and after

76
00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,719
Speaker 1: this animal drug her out of the car or drug

77
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,840
Speaker 1: her into the back seat of the car. They're still

78
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 1: kind of vague on these very you know, on a

79
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 1: lot of the details, and raped her. Now, this is

80
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,200
Speaker 1: a rape. This is not a fondling. This is not

81
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,160
Speaker 1: elude remark, this is not exposing. This is rape. It's

82
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,479
Speaker 1: a violent event. You know what she did. She gets

83
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: into this vehicle and drives until she can get in

84
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,480
Speaker 1: contact with the police. You talk about a hero. Oh

85
00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: my Lord in Heavens, the resiliency of somebody that can

86
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: survive this. And even with all this, and this is

87
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,839
Speaker 1: not one of these things where you know, she went

88
00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: home and she's thinking, you know, well, you whiz, I

89
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,279
Speaker 1: don't know if I ought to report it or whatever.

90
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: They had, They had information at that moment that led

91
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,599
Speaker 1: to them thinking that this individual could be caught. And

92
00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you know, look, every I think every

93
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 1: investigator enters into into a case where they believe that

94
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 1: they have the ability to solve the case and put

95
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,440
Speaker 1: the get the person off the streets. You'd be a

96
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 1: fool to be an investigator if you didn't think that.

97
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,480
Speaker 1: It's you're wasting your time for them. I'm sure at

98
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: that moment in time, they thought, okay, we're going to

99
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,120
Speaker 1: have ballistic evidence. Here. We've got what appears to be

100
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: an eyewitness who, by the way she rendered what are produced,

101
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,600
Speaker 1: at the direction of a forensic artist, a very accurate,

102
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: spot on sketch of this individual. And still with all that, Dave,

103
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 1: they couldn't they couldn't, you know, link it to anybody.

104
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,560
Speaker 2: You know, one thing about this entire story using the

105
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 2: term hero and what she did after what she had

106
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 2: already witnessed. But you know, when you've got this eighteen

107
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 2: year the couple is eighteen years old each and they're

108
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 2: you know, talking parking whatever. And according to the police,

109
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 2: Terence Aren't was killed because he was shielding his girlfriend.

110
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 2: That's how they described it was. I pulled it up

111
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: because I wanted to make sure of this, that he

112
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,119
Speaker 2: was trying to protect her, and that's how he died,

113
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 2: heroically putting his body in front of hers. And that's

114
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 2: why when you mentioned that even after what she had witnessed,

115
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 2: after what had happened to her a violent rape, she

116
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,559
Speaker 2: still was able to drive that vehicle to get help.

117
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 2: And her boyfriend did not die at the scene. He

118
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 2: died at the hospital. Now, I don't you know, that's

119
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 2: always a little bit of a stretch because of what

120
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 2: we're capable of doing in terms of calling somebody alive

121
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 2: or whatever. But he was shot multiple times protecting her,

122
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 2: saving her life, and she tried to save his, and

123
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 2: the fact that the case went cold had to have

124
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:35,199
Speaker 2: just been mind numbing for her and her family.

125
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: And her family, And I think, you know, the way

126
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: it has been described, at least in my reading, is

127
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 1: that this case in particular really scarred, really scarred that

128
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,959
Speaker 1: community for a long time because it was so and

129
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,800
Speaker 1: this is not you know, and forgive me, let me

130
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 1: clarify this. This is not actually in it's in Shasta County,

131
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,600
Speaker 1: but it's actually in the town of Burnie, which is

132
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: over kind of south. I'm probably gonna get this wrong,

133
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: south east of Mount Shasta. Big counties they have out there,

134
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 1: but in that little town was this was something that

135
00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 1: haunted these people. And you know, mister Aren't was actually

136
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: a star athlete in the local high school and had

137
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 1: gone on he had started college not too far away

138
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,680
Speaker 1: with the intent of continuing an athletic career at that

139
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: point in time. And so these are kids that were

140
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 1: in a small town day. I mean, you know, small

141
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 1: towns or small towns. Man. You know, if you're local

142
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 1: athletic star in a town, the only particularly back then,

143
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 1: I remember when I was in high school in a

144
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 1: small town, the biggest thing to happen during the year

145
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: was Friday night football. Everybody went, even if you didn't

146
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 1: have an interest in football or basketball. And on where

147
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: you live, people are going to turn out for these games,

148
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 1: and so the high schoolers. If you're really good, you

149
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,000
Speaker 1: become a star in that realm, in that realm, and

150
00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 1: as it turns out, this athletic star sacrificed his life

151
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 1: so that his girlfriend could live to tell this tale.

152
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:45,720
Speaker 1: Looking back through time, I remember those times of when

153
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 1: you're first intimately and I mean that in not necessarily

154
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 1: a sexual way. I mean that in sense of you're

155
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,440
Speaker 1: making an emotional connection to somebody. You remember this, like,

156
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, you in high school, maybe then a junior

157
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,559
Speaker 1: high school, when you first have this awareness of the

158
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,679
Speaker 1: opposite sex and there's some there's that attraction that you have.

159
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,960
Speaker 1: You know, Magnet and steel Man, you know, and you

160
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: want to learn everything you can about them, You want

161
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 1: to talk to them, you want to be in their presence.

162
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 1: And I think back to times like that and I think,

163
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, I would never, even in my wildest dreams,

164
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:41,079
Speaker 1: considered that there would be a monster just outside of

165
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,320
Speaker 1: of the you know, of the car. It actually makes

166
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 1: me think about it was one of the first victims

167
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,199
Speaker 1: of What's a Guy in San Francisco, Dave that still reminiac.

168
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 1: You had the zodiac where the two lovers were you know,

169
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 1: in the car and they were parked and he, you know,

170
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 1: he walks up and guns them. One of the guys survived,

171
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: the guy survived, the gal died, a young lady died,

172
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 1: and just this kind of randomized violence like this just

173
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, you know, and you you plump, you

174
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: try to plumb the depths of it, and you think,

175
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: you know, what, what would motivate somebody, what would be

176
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: the driver where you would take a weapon out a

177
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 1: firearm and attempt to execute them. And the only thing

178
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: about it is, you know, they used to use a

179
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,199
Speaker 1: term back in the forties and the fifties called lust murder.

180
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,959
Speaker 1: You don't hear that thrown around very much anymore. And

181
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,440
Speaker 1: I guess because it's too judge of the perpetrator, you know,

182
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,199
Speaker 1: to actually suggest that someone would be lustful and would

183
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,160
Speaker 1: act out in that sense. But you know, it comes

184
00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 1: down to that. So you're you're looking, I think, looking

185
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 1: for a predator. I would imagine back during that period

186
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 1: of time the first place, when they when the cops

187
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 1: came up with a big goose egg in this case,

188
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 1: they're probably thinking, we're going to check through all of

189
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 1: our files as best we can in this little hamlet,

190
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 1: and certainly extending out to the Greater Shasta County and

191
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 1: then northern California and so forth and so on. We're

192
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: going to look at somebody that fits them. Is there

193
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,199
Speaker 1: anybody else out there that's drawing a weapon on somebody

194
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: and then it ends in a rape? Or is there

195
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,079
Speaker 1: anybody else that has been killed with a firearm and

196
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,079
Speaker 1: there was some kind of sexual component to it, because

197
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 1: other than that, they they really had nothing.

198
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 2: Dave, Yeah, and that's what on this particular story. To

199
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:56,080
Speaker 2: actually leave a witness is odd because he already committed murder.

200
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 2: You've already got a dead guy, and yet he did

201
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 2: not kill the girl. But Joe in nineteen eighty four,

202
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:10,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to guess that forensics forensic, I find the

203
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 2: right wording here. Forensic science has been a growing art

204
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,560
Speaker 2: form over the last one hundred years. The things that

205
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,440
Speaker 2: were right on the cutting edge, you know, in nineteen

206
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 2: twenty five, were built on, and what was cutting edge

207
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four has been built on. But they

208
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 2: actually did collect a lot of evidence from the truck,

209
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 2: I mean, from the vehicle, from the victims, the victim's clothing,

210
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,560
Speaker 2: and when I was reading the information from the police department.

211
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 2: I kept digging back over because they were talking about

212
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 2: DNA in nineteen eighty four. Now, was that something that

213
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 2: police were actually getting more than just blood typing and

214
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 2: things like that in eighty four.

215
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 1: No, No, we weren't at the point where we would

216
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 1: do sequencing on a case like this to the extent

217
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: that it can be done today. As a matter of fact,

218
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,680
Speaker 1: eighty four, if I remember correctly, eighty four is when,

219
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 1: and I might be off about my dates, I think

220
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 1: that's when Alec Jefferies one a number of awards as

221
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: a result of his work with genetic sequencing and particularly

222
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 1: how it applied to crime science. So we were just

223
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: in that kind of that kind of bursting period, you know.

224
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 1: And it's one of those moments, you know where I

225
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 1: think the door was cracked and you could see a

226
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: glow coming out through the crack of the door. You

227
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 1: really still didn't fully appreciate what was on the other

228
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 1: side of that door. To continue that analogy, you open

229
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 1: the door and it's like, you know, almost Scrooge mcday

230
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: in piles of gold as far as knowledge is concerned,

231
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: and what we could do and listen, what we will

232
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 1: do in the future. It's not at an end. This

233
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: is going to continue. And you know, look, I got

234
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 1: to go back to to the mettlements with authorm there.

235
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,160
Speaker 1: This is what they're doing. You know, in cases like this,

236
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: they're revealing more and more as they continue to work

237
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 1: toward getting these cases as all. But that bit of

238
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: biological biological evidence that was collected back then proved too

239
00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: because they treated it so gingerly. They knew that if

240
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 1: they could retain it and maybe technology would catch up

241
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: with it, they knew that they were going to hang

242
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 1: on to it forever and ever as bad I say

243
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: forever and ever that that sounds as though that you

244
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: know that this is something that will be maintainable all

245
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: these years later. But look, we're in twenty twenty five now,

246
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 1: this is all the way back in nineteen eighty four.

247
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,360
Speaker 1: So whoever was the evidence custodian? Well, first off, there's

248
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 1: a whole line of people that you look at here.

249
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: You look at the ID text or the crime scene

250
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 1: texts that were at the scene, everything they collected there,

251
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: everything that was collected in the morgue, and then everything

252
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 1: that was collected subsequently off of a and this is important,

253
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 1: off of a surviving victim. Okay, just let that sink in,

254
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: because while while you're treating and this is one of

255
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: the toughest things that rape detectives, I think they prefer

256
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,960
Speaker 1: to be called sexual assault detectives now, but back then,

257
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 1: rape detectives one of the most difficult things they had

258
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 1: to contend with. If you can imagine walking into this dynamic,

259
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 1: you've got traumatized young lady who requires medical assistance at

260
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 1: that moment, Tom and she's psychologically harmed and will never

261
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 1: be the same after this, and all the while they're

262
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 1: also thinking about the biological evidence. Dave. They collected her clothing.

263
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,880
Speaker 1: Back then, they collected her clothing and retained it, and

264
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 1: that's a big piece to this, David.

265
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned how her frame of mind, you know,

266
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 2: the psychological, the physical, all the things that were going

267
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 2: on with this young woman at eighteen years old, she's

268
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,200
Speaker 2: just witnessed the murder of somebody she was drawing very

269
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 2: close to. But you mentioned a few minutes ago that

270
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 2: she was still able to give a very good description

271
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 2: of the perpetrator so that it could be drawn the

272
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 2: likeness of the persson who did this. So this woman,

273
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 2: this young woman really has some intestinal fortitude to be

274
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,040
Speaker 2: able to go through everything she did and to still

275
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 2: be able to describe what happened and who did it.

276
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 2: But you've got the genetics I was looking up. You

277
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 2: mentioned Alec Jeffries. We've talked about him a couple of

278
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 2: different times and forensic our genetic fingerprinting and things like that,

279
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 2: DNA fingerprints. That's something he was working on in eighty

280
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 2: four and it was being written about in I guess

281
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 2: medical jo journals or police journals. So there was some

282
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,879
Speaker 2: awareness that in the future there was going to be

283
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:35,199
Speaker 2: an ability to track people by this genetic information that

284
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 2: they were collecting, but at the time it wasn't happening.

285
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: It was something in the future. And that's what I

286
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: think startles me in a good way that law enforcement

287
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 2: in a small town you called it a hamlet. I

288
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: love that term. In this small town in northern California,

289
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: and you think about it. Yet they were informed, they

290
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do. They knew we've got to

291
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 2: get as much as we can work right now. Might

292
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 2: not help us today, but it might down the road.

293
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 2: We need this, and they did a great job of

294
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,479
Speaker 2: collecting and preserving what they found.

295
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did, and you know, it's it's amazing, isn't

296
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 1: it When you think about that they've got they literally

297
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:23,679
Speaker 1: have somebody's genetic blueprint in their hand right there. That

298
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: is it's going to have utility. It's almost like they've

299
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: got a crystal ball and they're looking into the future.

300
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,959
Speaker 1: We're going to preserve this until the point which, uh,

301
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, we can utilize it. Yeah, it reminds me

302
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: of people that are You've heard these tales I think

303
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 1: Walt Disney is one of them about people being cryogenically

304
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 1: frozen until yeah, they can be brought back and what

305
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: a disease that they had, you know, can be cured

306
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: at that point in time, They're gonna be reanimated and

307
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing that's rather fantastical. But when

308
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 1: you think about this, it's this is real. I mean,

309
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: this is something that is being lived out day after

310
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: day in forensic practice where you have these old time

311
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: or cops that were back there and they were thoughtful

312
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: enough to cover every one of their bases, where you know,

313
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 1: when it just comes down to retention of evidence. I

314
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 1: got to say something too about the sketch. I'd love

315
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: to kind of delve into this a little bit because look,

316
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean, God bless them, the people, the sketch artists

317
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: from back then. They they did not have the same

318
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: tools at their disposal that we have now, you know,

319
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: and this is going to be this is an evolving

320
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: kind of practice that you have. And I've always been

321
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: fascinated by the idea of being able to take to

322
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: question somebody, to give them, you know, where you're going

323
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: to redraw their picture or draw a picture some semblance.

324
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: It's never an exact match, Dave. It's never an exact match,

325
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: but it's an approximation. It's the same way in forensic anthropology,

326
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: where if you have a skull and you try to

327
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: recreate or do a facial reconstruction on the skull, you'll see, like,

328
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: for instance, tissue depth markers that they put on skulls

329
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: all over the place, these little white pegs as they're

330
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 1: laying clay on, and all these sorts of things they

331
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: can do. All that's digitally now. But I never there

332
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: was never a moment in any of those facial reconstructions

333
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: where I said, oh my lord, that's a spot on match.

334
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's merely I think a lot of people

335
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 1: think that it is because it is just as much

336
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: art as it is science. And listen, I got to

337
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: give a shout out in a shameless plug right now

338
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: to a buddy of mine who is out in California

339
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: and does he's been working for forty five years. He's

340
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: police officer or a former police officer, and his name

341
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: is Michael W. Streed. If any of you guys get

342
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: to check him out. He's got a website called Sketch

343
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: Coop dot com and he's utilized all over the world.

344
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: He does training all over the world now, and it's amazing.

345
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: You know what Michael can do. You know with his

346
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: magic board. You know that he utilizes in order to

347
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: breathe life into people. And so when you get you

348
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 1: have this image that is rendered by this nameless victim, Dave.

349
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: She's there kind of vibrating, you can imagine, in her

350
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: trauma and having born witness, and yet she still has

351
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: this ability to recall and give them enough data. It's

352
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: quite amazing. I'd heard of a forensic psychologist many years

353
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: ago talk about the thing that goes on in the

354
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: brain with layering, where when you an individual observes kind

355
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: of a traumatic event, they bear witness to it. It's

356
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: so traumatic that sometimes for your own protection, your brain

357
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: will kind of layer new data on top of it

358
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: and things are a bit more maybe more palatable or there.

359
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: They don't have the same sharpness that they that they

360
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: once did. I can't. I don't really understand that theory,

361
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: but that's what was presented to me. That's why I

362
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: keep going back to from Jump Street. They kind of

363
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: kick this thing off, where this is what we're going

364
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: to do. We're going to get her with a sketch artist,

365
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: and you know, and I can only imagine she was

366
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: probably and probably still to this day maybe remains resolute

367
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: in her need to bring this guy in and get

368
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: him off the streets, regardless of what his status in

369
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: life might be. And as we're going to find out,

370
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: that is exactly what happened, Dave. The burning deserts of Tucson,

371
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: Arizona are a long ways way from northern California at least. Uh.

372
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: You know, when you begin to think about the climate difference,

373
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: you're not gonna always need a sweatshirt and a sweater

374
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: evening in July down in Tucson. I've spent some time there. Uh,

375
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: You're just you're just trying to find shade man just

376
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: to survive. But you know this this case, uh, this

377
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 1: case uh involving the homicide of mister Arn't in this

378
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: this horrific rape. It it follows a trail along the way,

379
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: doesn't it that that leads police officers down to Tucson, Arizona.

380
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 2: Well, j After for all these years and we've got

381
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: a case in nineteen eighty four in a small community

382
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: that is investigated heavily. I mean, it's not like this

383
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: was something they just kind of put in the back

384
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: said wow, we can't figure this out. They worked it

385
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: hard and came up with nothing, or at least nothing

386
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: in terms of what we know of, and so the

387
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 2: case goes cold and it takes years and years and

388
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 2: years before it comes back up. And you know what,

389
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: I really do believe that the cold case units we

390
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: have now in law enforcement had to have come from

391
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 2: the impact of television programs about cold case files, you know,

392
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: because they were showing these cases and unsolved mysteries and

393
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: things like that. And you've got these retired detectives getting

394
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: together with retired judges and retired lawyers and retired and

395
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: they're working on crimes that unsolved in their area. That's

396
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 2: still you know, And I think that's something that really

397
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: did develop into a point something very good, because now

398
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: we've got people every day that have gotten away with

399
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: a crime for decades that are now being brought to.

400
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: Justice. Yeah, and I think that in the future there's

401
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: going to be a really an interesting, an interesting set

402
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: of cases that will eventually be presented where the person

403
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: thought that they were going to live to ripe old

404
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: age and never be held to account. I know that

405
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: there's been other versions of it, but now with the

406
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: advent of forensic genetic genealogy, this adds a completely different

407
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: layer to just as you know, if you're a creative writer,

408
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: just to the narrative. Here, I'm of the opinion, and

409
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong. I don't know if other people share this.

410
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this this week, particularly in

411
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: light of of the Coburger trial. I was actually thinking,

412
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: I believe that the days of the so called classic

413
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: serial killer or the sun is setting on them, because

414
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: there's so there's so many tools out there in order

415
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: to solve these cases that once were unsolvable. The one

416
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: element many times would say, for instance serial killers, is

417
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: that there is this desire to touch, to put their

418
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: hands on somebody in some ways sexually assault them. And

419
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how how people are going to get

420
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: around that like they once could You think about serial

421
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: killings that happened back in the seventies and the andes,

422
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: and that's where yeah, with Bundy, and then you round

423
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: that back to where we are now with this technology.

424
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that you know that evil

425
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: is going to end as a result of this, will

426
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: always be evil, but it's it's really put criminals at

427
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: a disadvantage here now even more so than they were before.

428
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's a that's a great thing. And

429
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: and it's born out here in this case, Dave that

430
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: after after all these years where you know, this this

431
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: poor victim, where they were able to uh collect her clothes,

432
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: I think, and as time went by, they were able

433
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: to develop a DNA profile on an individual and.

434
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: Plug Actually I was going to ask you about that

435
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: when did CODIS come into play, because they mentioned as

436
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: I was reading through the history here, it said that

437
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: they did plug it into CODIS. But cotis is only

438
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: people who have been entered into the system.

439
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: So we did that actually, and yeah, doesn't go back.

440
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: Does it go back that far? And so that's the

441
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: thing about it is they've been this is the miracle

442
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: of the future. I think. This is what I think

443
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: that every investigator that work cases prior to this era

444
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: of time they were hoping for, you know. And it

445
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: all starts with codis I think, and plugging it in.

446
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: And here's another thing, brother Dave, I wanted to throw

447
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: out to you. You know, how many times have we

448
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: watched a television show or seen something where some actor

449
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: will stand before camera and they'll say he's done it

450
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: before and he'll do it again. Well, they plugged the

451
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: DNA collected off of this clothing of this young woman.

452
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: They didn't get a hit. So what you've got is

453
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: this a one off event where you've got an individual

454
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: who shows up with two teenagers arked in a car

455
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: and decides to end one of their lives and then

456
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: violently rape the other one and they're just kind of

457
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: vanish in the dark, and he never re offends, or

458
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: maybe he's maybe he's offended again and no one called

459
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: it in. Maybe he's offended, and maybe he offended again

460
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: and killed the individual, because it's it's pretty obvious he's

461
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: willing to kill, and he disposed of the remains and

462
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: the person who's just vanished into time at this point

463
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: in time. But you know, people always put out that,

464
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: particularly those in the you know, psychology realm. They'll always say,

465
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: you know, they can't help themselves, they're going to re offend.

466
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that I don't know if

467
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: that that thesis is fool proof. You know, I don't

468
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: know that you can say that that is the case

469
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: forever and ever. Amen. Maybe it was a one off event.

470
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: Maybe he just decided he was going to drift into

471
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: the midst of time and was going to hang this

472
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: on me. But you know, the policeer did, particularly along

473
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: with our friends down in Texas.

474
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: But Joe, what if, okay, what if this guy, the

475
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: suspect here, maybe he had an infatuation with the girl

476
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: and maybe he asked her out, she turned him down,

477
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: and he became obsessed with her, and he finds her

478
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: with this other guy and they're parking, and he then

479
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: kills the guy, rapes the girl and leaves. And he's

480
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: not a criminal. It's not his wife's. His lifestyle is

481
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: not that of a criminal. He lost his cookies as

482
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: these Namby pambies that you and I hear on TV

483
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,239
Speaker 2: all the time talking about No, he just lost it

484
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: for a few minutes. He was out of control. He

485
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: wasn't responsible for what happened during this window of opportunity

486
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: or whatever. And maybe that's what happened. And then he

487
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: crawled back under his rock and went back to his

488
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: world of an incel, right, and so anyway, don't know

489
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: if that's what happened, but I do know this genetic

490
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: genealogy is something that they're using so that if they've

491
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: got somebody's DNA, they so start tracking family trees forensic

492
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: genetic genealogy to the point where, just like with we

493
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: mentioned Sherry Peppini in Shasta County, California, they were able

494
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: to use this same type of treat of examination to

495
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: find a relative. They used it in Coburger. They found

496
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 2: that DNA on the sheath came from the father of

497
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: the person who did this. They're able to narrow it

498
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: down so dramatically that dude, they did it with this guy.

499
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 2: And so from northern California, in Shasta County, you're able

500
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: to go to Tucson, Arizona, forty years after the crime.

501
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: And there you go, yeah, and you you know, and

502
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: you nail it down that moment time. Listen, when the

503
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: police roll up, you have this image in your mind

504
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: of a guy, a gun toting rapist, because you have

505
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: evidence of that from past past actions, who has now

506
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: been confirmed as the individual that contributed to DNA at seen.

507
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: You're thinking you're going to walk into the house of

508
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: a monster. As it turns out, this guy, the accused

509
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: now that was living his life, unlike mister arn Right,

510
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: was living his life out in p Mac County, Arizona,

511
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: in Tucson. I'll go ahead, say his name, Roger Neil Schmidt. Well,

512
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: if he's a senior, that means he's reproduced, he's got

513
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: a kid out there somewhere, he's been able to live

514
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: his life. And when they roll up to his house, Dave,

515
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: this guy. This guy's in a wheelchair and on oxygen. Okay,

516
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: he would have been they say that he would have

517
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: been twenty three. I think at the time back in

518
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: eighty four, he's now sixty four, and I'm thinking, why

519
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: are you in a wheelchair and on oxygen at sixty four? Yeah,

520
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, look, I mean, I'm not saying

521
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: that sixties, a New forty or anything. I'm just saying

522
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: that what's happened in your life to put you in

523
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: a wheelchair and on oxygen at this point in your life?

524
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: Why are you so debilitated now as you know this,

525
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: this I don't know this disease that you have infected

526
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: yourself with, this, this horrible thing. Had the chickens come

527
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: home to roost? You know, back in your past, were

528
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: you endo this young man's life and scarred this woman

529
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: for the remainder of her life. I'm not going to

530
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: say it's the most ideal situation, but I can tell

531
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: you this, he's not six feet under a headstone somewhere.

532
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: He's had a chance to live his life, and now

533
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: he's going to live his life after he gets extradited.

534
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: This just this arrest just has been affected and at

535
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: the time that we're laid in this down day, he's

536
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,479
Speaker 1: going to spend the rest of his or at least

537
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: foreseeable future in Northern California. He's going back there and

538
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: he's going to be held to account for what he did.

539
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: Dave or allegedly you know, I don't know, Well, we'll

540
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 2: actually transpiring court that you mentioned as we're recording this.

541
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: He was just arrested less than a week ago. And

542
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 2: by the way, they don't they being law enforcement, they

543
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: don't get this track down to your great uncle and

544
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: then say, oh, it's justice Scott Morgan, go to his

545
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: house and arrest him. They investigate. Actually, that's just another

546
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 2: link in the chain and they have to now go

547
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 2: and just like with Coburger, and I keep rent mentioning

548
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: that because we've all covered we in the business have

549
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: covered that story now for a long time. And even

550
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 2: when they believed the DNA on that day the sheath

551
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: was from the father of the individual who committed the crime,

552
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: they still had to go to his house and camp out.

553
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: And they did the same thing here in Arizona. They

554
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: went to the guy's house and they worked with local

555
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: law enforcement until they could get something from him that

556
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: they could then test and match up to the DNA

557
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: that was recovered in nineteen eighty four. They got it,

558
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: and that's why we actually have the name of the

559
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: man now. It stands accused of a hated By the way,

560
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: the rape this poor woman said that he raped her

561
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 2: multiple times. So he didn't just kill the guy, rape

562
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: the girl and run in a matter of minutes. It

563
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,439
Speaker 2: was some time. I don't know how long yet, we'll

564
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: find out more as this case proceived me.

565
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: Can I add something to that? They raped? He raped her? Allegedly,

566
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: this guy raped her in the presence of her dying boyfriend.

567
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: Let that sink in just for a second, to give

568
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: you an idea what kind of human you're dealing with here?

569
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: He raped her repeatedly while this guy's life is draining

570
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: out of him from multiple gunshot wounds. Just let that

571
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: sink in. How absent of mercy and compassion do you

572
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: have to be in order to perpetrate this kind of thing.

573
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 1: It absolutely blows my mind that he did not re offend.

574
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: Maybe he did, but he didn't show up. But after

575
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: all these years, they have caught him. And you know,

576
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: I got to say, Dave. Moving forward, we are going

577
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: to continue to watch this case. I'm hoping that she,

578
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: this victim, will have her day in court and be

579
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: able to affirmatively say in court that yes, that's the

580
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: man that did this to me. And we'll see what

581
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: the court's judgment is at the end of the day.

582
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: But I do know this, there has been a let's see,

583
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: how can we say this, there has been a warning

584
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: shot fired across the bow of every want to be

585
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 1: perpetrator out there that is going to assault somebody that's

586
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: going to murder, somebody that's going to rob them of

587
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: their life. There's been a warning shot fired, and that

588
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: warning shot is being fired authorm. It goes to the

589
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: numbers that you deal with when you're talking about science.

590
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: It goes to the idea that you can't outrun the

591
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: numbers no matter how hard you try it, no matter

592
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: if you move thousands and thousands of miles away, that

593
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: essence of you is still going to remain. And because

594
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: of authorm and at their website dnaslves dot com, they

595
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: breathe life into these cases and literally do reanimate these

596
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: individuals so that they can be called, called and held

597
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: to account for their crimes. If you have a desire

598
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: to contribute to authorm, you can visit their website again.

599
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: I'll mention that again it's d n A Solves s

600
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: O l v e S dot com. And the cool

601
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: thing about this, many of you you want to be

602
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: able to participate in the solving of crime. Now's your opportunity.

603
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: You can contribute any amount that you want. You go

604
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: to their website. You check out what cases are currently open.

605
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: Is there anything that catches your attention? Maybe it's something

606
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: that happened in your state, maybe even in your community

607
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: that for years and years people have been asking questions

608
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: about and still have received no answer. Your contribution to

609
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: these efforts can help with that. I suggest that you

610
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: log onto their website, pass through all of the cases

611
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: that are there, see if anything catches your attention, and

612
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: once they have arrived at that magic number that they

613
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: need to arrive at, a switch will be flipped and

614
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: the case will be going into their system and they'll

615
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: begin to work on it, and you never know, the

616
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: money that you send their way might really, really truly

617
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: bring answers that have not previously existed. I'm Joseph Scott

618
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Backs