1
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: You're listening to a new segment of Dear Chelsea. Call

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,800
Speaker 1: it Couple's Counseling with Chelsea, where we do couples counseling

3
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: on all sorts of variations of friends, lovers, families. I'm

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,080
Speaker 1: here with my friends Jenny Mullen and Jason Biggs, and

5
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,639
Speaker 1: we are going to do some couples counseling. Welcome to

6
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,760
Speaker 1: my office. Okay, we're back this week with Jenny Mullen

7
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: and Jason Biggs. I would love for you guys, this

8
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,639
Speaker 1: is week three, okay of our therapy session. I would

9
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: like you to regale us with the story about when

10
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,279
Speaker 1: you guys went scuba diving and you thought Jason was

11
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: getting murdered under underwater.

12
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

13
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 3: So we were getting our advanced certification or open water

14
00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 3: Advanced Diving certification, and we were in Maui and I

15
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 3: noticed the instructor. We were on a dive, a beach dive,

16
00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 3: and I noticed the instructor getting like dangerously like close

17
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 3: to Jason, like almost like a crawling on his back,

18
00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:01,240
Speaker 3: and he starts to like screw something. I am convinced

19
00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 3: that this guy is turning off Jason's air.

20
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 1: So why wouldn't you think he was helping him.

21
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 4: Looked sus It really did not.

22
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,760
Speaker 3: Look normal, okay, and the guy already was like shady

23
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 3: to me. So like I already had questions about him

24
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 3: going in. And when I saw him mount.

25
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: Jason, was it a mount or did it become a

26
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:23,720
Speaker 1: mount over time?

27
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,039
Speaker 4: It was like a full mount onto Jason's It's.

28
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,840
Speaker 1: Not unusual for your scuba guide or diamaster to be

29
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 1: adjusting things on your tank.

30
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,200
Speaker 4: This was like a full mount.

31
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 3: And I, I don't know, I just like survival instinct

32
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,320
Speaker 3: kicked in and I instead of like going towards Jason,

33
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,600
Speaker 3: my survival instinct kicked in. Instead of going towards Jason

34
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 3: and like really sussing out the situation or kind of

35
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,280
Speaker 3: checking out like what exactly was being pulled on, I.

36
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,960
Speaker 4: Did a U turn in the water and as fast

37
00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 4: as I.

38
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,480
Speaker 1: Could to shore because you thought you were murder victim

39
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: number two and that after he kills Jason, it was me.

40
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 3: I mean I've seen that dateline where the couple goes

41
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 3: to Hawaii.

42
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,519
Speaker 4: And like you know, on the instructor comes back.

43
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,200
Speaker 1: And so instead of helping your husband, were you guys

44
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 1: married at the time or just you were married. Yeah,

45
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: because you guys got married pretty quickly. Yes, right? How

46
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 1: many months were you dating? Nine months?

47
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 4: And then yeah?

48
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,600
Speaker 3: And then I swam back to shore and Jason was like,

49
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 3: where are you going?

50
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,679
Speaker 4: Surfaced? He was like, where were you going? And I said, well.

51
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,840
Speaker 3: It's just swimming through my life.

52
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,360
Speaker 2: I thought he was killing you.

53
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 4: I thought that you were done.

54
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 5: At which point it dawned on me. If you thought that,

55
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 5: why didn't you come and help me? We would I

56
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 5: have done?

57
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 3: To be honest, if let's just say the guy was

58
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,040
Speaker 3: murdering Jason, what would I have really?

59
00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: What was the timeframe that you saw this and that

60
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 1: you were out of the water.

61
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 4: I turned pretty quick. A minute he mounted Jason, I

62
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 4: was like, full breaststroke. Michael Phelps sing it back to.

63
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: And what was your reaction Jason when you got back?

64
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,920
Speaker 1: Because I know you also when scuba diving, you're more

65
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 1: in charge. Like you You're very organized. It's a lot

66
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,440
Speaker 1: like you're packing right, You're he's helping everyone, You.

67
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,960
Speaker 4: Like adjusting my goggles. I'm like, I'm fine, get off,

68
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:24,440
Speaker 4: let me go it this way.

69
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 5: I would say nine out of ten people who scuba

70
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,040
Speaker 5: dive with me want me to be their dive buddy

71
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,240
Speaker 5: one out of ten is Jenny.

72
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, like, get off of me, let me live my life.

73
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: Do you guys ever scuba dive holding hands like like.

74
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,040
Speaker 4: I did with the dive we have we're very competitive.

75
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 3: So it's like if you know, we hold hands, but

76
00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 3: like I need to be like on the deeper side.

77
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 1: You're very competitive with him?

78
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 3: Are we have more air left at the We like

79
00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 3: to look, we like to look, but he always sucks.

80
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 2: It's not even a competition for me anymore.

81
00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 5: It's more by the way when we say we're competitive,

82
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 5: it's more it goes this way.

83
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 4: He always says that. But our couples therapist thinks you're

84
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 4: just as competitive, does she?

85
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,400
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to actually counsel with her after this.

86
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 1: How do you see that he's competitive.

87
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 4: With you in a parenting way? For sure?

88
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 3: Okay, but in scuba, in scuba, in tennis, and it's

89
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 3: just he's a bit of a know it all.

90
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,960
Speaker 4: So, for instance, I'll give you a great example the

91
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:31,479
Speaker 4: other day.

92
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 5: But if I'm better at certain things, that doesn't mean

93
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 5: I'm competitive. It just means I'm better at them. He likes,

94
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 5: he likes out. She's like, it's interesting that you're choosing

95
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 5: tennis or things.

96
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,560
Speaker 3: That, like I was talking about sports, but now I'll

97
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,200
Speaker 3: do another one parenting, or he likes to point out

98
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 3: when I've like not.

99
00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 4: Done something correct. So for instance, I think we were

100
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,440
Speaker 4: in LA and I.

101
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 3: Ordered something on Postmates, and you know, you get that

102
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 3: notification on your phone that says, like your order whatever

103
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 3: you think it's a your order's been delivered. So a

104
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,359
Speaker 3: notification comes up. I don't see it. It's not like

105
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 3: scrolling at the top, and the phone's kind of locked.

106
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,800
Speaker 3: The next morning, I go downstairs, I'm like, oh, I

107
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 3: saw the I have an order down here. Something came

108
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 3: up on my phone and the guy's like, no, nothing

109
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 3: was delivered.

110
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 4: So I was like, that's so weird. I got a

111
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 4: notification for Postpace.

112
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 3: I look and it said, actually, your order's been canceled,

113
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,239
Speaker 3: so it's not there. So we get into the elevator

114
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:25,960
Speaker 3: and Jason's like, so, I guess you never got a

115
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 3: notification saying that it was delivered.

116
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 4: It's like, why the fuck did you have to say

117
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:30,160
Speaker 4: that to me?

118
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 3: Now when we're alone, like a little bit of like

119
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:33,920
Speaker 3: a finger wag in my face.

120
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,919
Speaker 2: There's a lot of that, And that was in the

121
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 2: middle of a fight already.

122
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 3: Actually it was it because I said, baby, you don't

123
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,279
Speaker 3: say that, and you're like, Okay, you're sorry.

124
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

125
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 4: But you can't help yourself, is what I'm saying. You

126
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,040
Speaker 4: have this like but I don't know the ability like hetitive.

127
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,840
Speaker 3: It's this idea that like, you need to be like

128
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 3: the good kid, you need to be the one who's

129
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,480
Speaker 3: always right there. It's there is a there's an element

130
00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 3: of that that is like.

131
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,160
Speaker 1: But you have a very competitive nature with your husband.

132
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 1: That's not doesn't apply to every couple. I mean, do

133
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: you meet any other couples with your same dynamic.

134
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 2: No, but I.

135
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 4: Don't know that I was.

136
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 3: I think it's something about the two of us because

137
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 3: we both want to be right. We both want to

138
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 3: be the good kid, we both want to be the

139
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 3: best parent, we both want to get it right, we

140
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 3: want to be the a student.

141
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 4: And I don't know.

142
00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,040
Speaker 3: That like I was ever with somebody that had that

143
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 3: same trait. So this really brings that out, you know,

144
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,840
Speaker 3: because we're both trying so hard. It's why I think

145
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 3: we'll always be married, because we both want to get

146
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 3: it right and we're committed to getting it right.

147
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,360
Speaker 1: I like that. That's nice for couples to hear.

148
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not wrong.

149
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:48,039
Speaker 5: I agree, there is that when it comes to life stuff, parenting,

150
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:49,239
Speaker 5: et cetera.

151
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,279
Speaker 2: You're you're right, Jenny.

152
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 5: I will say, though, on the professional front, it's different

153
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 5: because I came into the relationship having already had achieved

154
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 5: a certain level of success that you hadn't yet achieved.

155
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,039
Speaker 5: And you came into the relationship with a family of

156
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,440
Speaker 5: origin situation, meaning your dad being this larger than life

157
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 5: guy that you were and still are competitive with, So

158
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,280
Speaker 5: it tracks more on that. No, really, I'm not saying

159
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 5: that in like a negative This is stuff she talks

160
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 5: about as well, Like I don't come with that, say, like,

161
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 5: when it comes to work stuff, I don't have the

162
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 5: need to get the validation or to sort of show

163
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,800
Speaker 5: or like like I don't present it in the same

164
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 5: way that Jenny presents it or in my opinion, needs.

165
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 2: It to land in the same way.

166
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 5: Like I think there is a resentment that Jenny has

167
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 5: towards me simply because we've talked about this, simply because

168
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 5: of the position that I had coming into the relationship,

169
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 5: you know, and it's not a coincidence. I think that

170
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 5: she found somebody who you know, she r.

171
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 3: No, you're psychoanalyzing me, which wasn't really even we're.

172
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 2: Talking about the competitive nature of.

173
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 4: Or going to the easy place of it.

174
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I think it's well where.

175
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: Would you prefer?

176
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 3: Though?

177
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: Where would you prefer?

178
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 3: He went, Well, I think that there's also an element

179
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 3: of like it's like his mom's learning Italian, and I

180
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 3: think that it bothers him.

181
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 4: There's something that triggers him about like he.

182
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 3: Thinks whenever anyone wants to like show off or do

183
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 3: something in a certain way.

184
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 4: He has a need to like put you in your

185
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 4: place a little. Yeah, you feel it's historical.

186
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,400
Speaker 3: I don't think it's necessarily about me, but I do

187
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 3: think that it plays out with me.

188
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 4: So I do think that when he sees.

189
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: Me being.

190
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 3: Competitive or activated by something, it triggers a family of

191
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 3: origin issue for him that really isn't Oftentimes, I think

192
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 3: that our stuff gets enmeshed in a way that really

193
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,920
Speaker 3: isn't about the other person, and that's true of all couples.

194
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 3: I think that when you're smart, when you're fighting, it's

195
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 3: like you're in your shit and they're in their shit

196
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,720
Speaker 3: and it just looks it looks the same, but it's not.

197
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 4: That's not actually, you know, I'm not his mom, he's

198
00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 4: not my dad.

199
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,120
Speaker 1: What do you think about that, Jason.

200
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 5: She's right that obviously I have a reaction to that.

201
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 5: That was the part I hadn't gotten to, Like, I

202
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,080
Speaker 5: think there is one of us brings something to the table.

203
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 5: In this case, Jenny brings her competitiveness with her dad.

204
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,679
Speaker 5: But it does bring up a reaction to me that

205
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 5: probably has nothing to do with Jenny. She's right, you know,

206
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 5: and vice versa. I'll bring something to the table that

207
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 5: triggers Jenny. And it's not about my actions so much

208
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,360
Speaker 5: as it is about, Oh, it feels like it's sad.

209
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,440
Speaker 5: You know, it looks the same, and actually that's exactly.

210
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 5: I mean, that's all couples. That's all couples, and that's

211
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 5: the thing. It's like, I am not your dad. But

212
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,800
Speaker 5: like when you know, we got married, it felt in

213
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,439
Speaker 5: a lot of ways that dynamic of being in my shadow,

214
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,960
Speaker 5: if you will, Jason Biggs's wife, all of the things

215
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,000
Speaker 5: that you know, my plus one, all of that stuff,

216
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,079
Speaker 5: it it goes you can take that shit that she

217
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,280
Speaker 5: was dealing with in the early stages of our relationship

218
00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,360
Speaker 5: and still deals with and just go and go back

219
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 5: a couple of years and see that it's a similar

220
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,000
Speaker 5: thing to how she was dealing with her dad. When

221
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 5: I'm triggered, It's like I'm reacting the same way for

222
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 5: sure that I reacted when my mom said something when

223
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 5: I was living at home, And I'm like, what the

224
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 5: fuck is that? It's the same feeling for sure, And

225
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 5: we're having a hard time, Like we've been with the

226
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,199
Speaker 5: same therapists for seventeen years, since before.

227
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 2: We got married.

228
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 5: And we were married nine months, so to tell you,

229
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like she has been with

230
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 5: us before we even knew each other. And now it

231
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 5: goes like this in terms of our abilities to recognize

232
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,200
Speaker 5: these triggers and take a step back before we get

233
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 5: into a fight, like seeing that we're being triggered and

234
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 5: go oh, okay.

235
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,480
Speaker 2: And we're like in a place.

236
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 5: Right now where we need where it just happened to

237
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,760
Speaker 5: Like we're getting caught up in our triggers more than usual.

238
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 2: We're both very busy.

239
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,840
Speaker 5: I think we're parenting is fucking hard, the hardest thing

240
00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 5: we've ever done. And all of these sort of external

241
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,840
Speaker 5: factors have now made it harder for us to all

242
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 5: the work that we've done and all the tools that

243
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,400
Speaker 5: we've paid for quite a lot of money.

244
00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 1: For yes, seventeen years worth of therapy.

245
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,640
Speaker 2: Is like we're forgetting them.

246
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,439
Speaker 5: We're forgetting them, or we're just not accessing them, or

247
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,200
Speaker 5: we don't want to access them because we're back to

248
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 5: wanting to be right again for some reason.

249
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,199
Speaker 4: Right now, it's not even that we want to be right.

250
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 3: We want to be considered because I think that there's

251
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,120
Speaker 3: a a thing with Jason and I were we were

252
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 3: both like codependence to like a narcissistic parent, right, And

253
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 3: so we want to be heard and we want like

254
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,840
Speaker 3: to be prioritizing, and so it's hard for us to

255
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 3: like it's like you can go first. It's your dime,

256
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 3: you go first, right, And it's so hard to like

257
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 3: allow that other person to go first.

258
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 2: I think a lot of giving this problem to our

259
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,480
Speaker 2: narcissistic parent.

260
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,120
Speaker 3: Where you go, I'm going to let you go first,

261
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to bring up my shit right now,

262
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,679
Speaker 3: I'm going a whole day and I don't need to say,

263
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 3: but what about me? And that's a discipline that you

264
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 3: like have to learn in a relationship to not say,

265
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,440
Speaker 3: but what about me right now? It's like save it

266
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 3: for later, let them have it, be generous enough to

267
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 3: like let them make it, make it about them, to

268
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,280
Speaker 3: sort of like help them heal that shit and then

269
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,640
Speaker 3: get your own needs met later. When you both want

270
00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,679
Speaker 3: to go at the same time, it never works.

271
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 5: But even when we're able to do that, we're not

272
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,760
Speaker 5: always able to do it with empathy. Like we're like, okay, fine,

273
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,120
Speaker 5: you know what you go, you go, you go, well,

274
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 5: but when you're ready, I'll go myself. It's like that's

275
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 5: also not how to do it. It's like, but like

276
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 5: props to me, I stopped. Okay, you go your dime.

277
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,880
Speaker 5: But it's all in tone, it's all in how you

278
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 5: do it. We're not doing it with empathy. Then it's

279
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:20,800
Speaker 5: like fuck you, I don't want.

280
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 2: To right exactly.

281
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 1: That can become competitive too exactly. Okay, Well, on that note,

282
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: that's the We're gonna wrap up this episode of Jenny

283
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: and Jason and then we'll be back for episode four. Okay,

284
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 1: so you can check out Jenny mull and substack the

285
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: Best Friend Experience and her new side hustle, The Shirts

286
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 1: off my Back where you can buy fabulous vintage clothes,

287
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,320
Speaker 1: and you can also check out Jenny and Jason co

288
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 1: hosting Dinner in a Movie on TBS