WEBVTT - Has The BRICS Summit Brought Russia and Africa Closer? 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:06.800 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.320 Russia wants to show there is an alternative to a 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.680 world run on the West's terms. 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.760 The Bricks State stands united in their support for intensifying 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.400 cooperation in the global arena based on the key principles 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.880 of the UN Charter, and jointly strive to contribute in 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.480 every possible way to the formation of a fair, multipolar 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.839 world order with the decisive participation of the countries of 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.839 the Global South and East in the systems of international governance. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.360 The Brick Summit in Kazan is Putin's attempt to show 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.720 that Russia is not alone. The Kremlin build it as 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.199 one of the largest scale foreign policy events ever, and 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:50.680 African countries are playing a key role. 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:56.280 Bricks is an inclusive formation, but has the ability to 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.360 change the trajectory of the Global South. To do this, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:05.840 we must realize the food potential of our economic partnership 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:12.440 to ensure sustainable development for all and not just for some. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.400 On this week's Next Africa Podcast, we'll ask what Russia 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.600 needs from Africa and what the region wants in return. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.240 Is Russia an important ally or simply a way to 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.120 show the rest of the world at the West isn't 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.720 the only game in town. I'm Jennifer's Abasaja and this 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.040 is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story each 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.880 week from the continent driving the future of global growth 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:43.520 with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Joining me to 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.720 discuss Russia's relationship with Africa this week our Bloomberg Senior 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:52.080 reporter Henry Meyer and stembile Sele, Bloomberg's Government and eco 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.680 reporter based here in Johannesburg. Hello to both of you. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.520 Thanks for joining us on the podcast. Henry, let's just 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.000 start with you, Baby goes a background on BRICKS and 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.040 what exactly was on the agenda for the summit this week. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.240 So, this is an organization which was founded about fifteen 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:15.440 years ago by Russia, China, India and Brazil, and then 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.919 it took in South Africa in twenty and ten and 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:25.040 became BRICKS. It's essentially an organization which includes developing countries 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.280 and seen by some of its members, particularly Russia and China, 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.440 as an alternative to the US led world order. This 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.080 is not a view which is widely shared by the 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.200 other members. And this meeting that took place in Russia 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.240 is the first time that the organization has met since 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.080 it expanded to take in four new members. Those members 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.840 are Ethiopia and Egypt, two new African countries, and Iran 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.800 and the United Arab Emirates. In terms of what was 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.720 on the agenda, obviously a part of their agenda is 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.360 trying to increase the role of developing countries, particularly in 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:08.040 the world's international financial architecture, develop economic ties between themselves 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.520 and reduce the use of the US dollar. And also 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.600 they are looking at the issue of whether they are 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:14.760 ready to expand further. 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.400 It's telling too, Henry, I mean the location of this 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.560 the backdrop of what's happening geopolitically. When you think about 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.800 a lot of those agenda items, What if anything do 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.160 we know did they achieve at the summit. 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.160 Well, the mere fact of the summit taking place at 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.920 all is certainly by Russia seen as a major achievement. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.160 As you mentioned the geopolitical scenario, Russia is obviously under 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.600 unprecedented sanctions and the West is trying to isolate it 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.280 over its invasion of Ukraine. In total, more than thirty 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.840 leaders attended this meeting. This includes countries which want to join, 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.960 as well as the nine members. We don't have so 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.440 far any tangible results from the summit. We do believe, however, 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.440 that approximately a dozen countries will be invited to become 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.680 observer members so not full membership, but maybe it's a 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:09.520 halfway house. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.320 And what's interesting to Henry about this, we have a 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:18.479 few Bloomberg Economics intelligence reports about how the expanding block 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.320 doesn't necessarily mean that all of these different countries are 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.720 going to be having the same relationship, right, the same 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.520 bilateral relationship. But if we just take one of those 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.440 China's relationship with South Africa. With Africa, we know a 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.680 lot of that has come with checkbooks, has been about infrastructure. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.479 But when we think about Russia as the host of 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.520 this year's summit, what do we know about Russia's relations 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.680 with some of the other countries that are in the 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:47.520 BRUX membership. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:53.440 If we so specifically about Africa, then obviously China's approaches, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.679 as you mentioned, is quite different. It's much more based 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:01.080 on financial and economic ties. Obviously the level of trade, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.920 it's very interesting the Russian trade with Africa is very small. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.760 It's only twenty five billion dollars a year versus more 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.520 than two hundred and eighty billion for China and the 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.080 Russian approach, I would characterize it as developing ties with 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.359 Africa on the cheap, if you're like A lot of 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.679 it is to do with diplomatic benefits for African countries 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:29.679 and also security ties, and particularly with countries where military 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.800 rulers have taken over. This is the case in the 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:36.159 Sahel in Western Africa, and this is I think the 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.880 approach that Russia has yielded real benefits for them. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:39.880 At the UN. 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.560 There have been African countries which have not backed votes 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.760 condemning Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, and it allowed 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.600 Russia also to counter the isolation that the West has 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:52.680 been trying to impose on it. 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.520 And one of those countries that have taken a bit 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.440 of a neutral stance is South Africa's Tambile, if you 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.039 can join in on this. Obviously, a key part of 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.560 the Bricks was the host last year for the summit. 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:08.200 How would you characterize South Africa's relationship with Russia right now? 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:13.200 I think it is from a foreign policy perspective, one 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.440 which in the first instance is historical, and that certainly 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.840 came into play what last year's Brick summits and the 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.400 negotiations around having the President of Russia Nott come unless 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.200 t be arrested on that warrant of arrest from international 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.160 criminal courts. But in terms of trade it is actually 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.320 very limited. A trade that happens between the two countries 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.880 are not significant in that sense. I think the approach 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:37.359 to Russia is similar to the approach of countries in 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.360 general for South Africa, which is, we are dealing from 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.920 an aspect of national interest, what can we get out 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.640 of this now? And South Africa has pushed really hard 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.240 to be seen as being part of the revival of 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.359 the so called non allied movement, where there is not 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.760 neutrality but a position which says we're not going to 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.320 get involved in every fact that you're involved with. Our 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.280 allegiance and should be tested in that way and we 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:02.919 should not be seen as taking. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:03.680 The side or that sign. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.920 We should be doing what we believe to be right, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.320 what is compliant with the international rule of law, and 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:12.680 what is in our national interest economically and otherwise. And 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.120 so I think that's position. Even if you look at 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.960 the inputs that President rama Porta has been making. 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.040 He's been pushing that idea of this is where we're 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:20.480 at now. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.800 In terms of this coalition government that we've got going, 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.000 and this is what we want to see in terms 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.600 of the international order, and that is very much a 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.560 form of multilateral institutions. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:30.559 They need to be fair. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.000 There needs to be a representation of the globe of 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.600 South at these forums and they need to be heard 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.760 in terms of what the interests saw and what the 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.080 priorities are of countries in that region. I think that's 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.320 the main push. We need to say, that's how we 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.880 are engaging, That's not Africa, what is in this for us? 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.400 And what is the structure of the international order? 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.480 In the stare and non aligned was the right word. 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.480 Thank you for using that stambula on the agenda this week. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.040 There were plans to try to expand the Bricks Group. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.920 We mentioned how last year that was part of the summit, 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.600 but South Africa has been pretty vocal in their own 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.960 stance in terms of expanding it out. Well, all the 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.920 Bricks countries really have been stimuli What is the resistance 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.240 to adding some of the countries that have been floated 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.880 into the Bricks block from South Africa? 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:21.120 So I think there's definitely a division work in Bricks 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.800 on a number of levels. It's not as clear cutter 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:25.880 as what the president of Russia, what have you believed? 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.720 This is not a huge moment where everyone is at 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.000 the table and they're all, you know, saying kumbaya, I'm 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:31.800 agreeing with each other. 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.040 There are some very real differences. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:35.720 I mean, if you're looking at some of the divisions, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:38.040 it might be along If you look at the founding 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.080 members Brazil, India and South Africa, they have a very 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.760 different worldview in general to Russia and China in terms 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:46.960 of some of the purchase that they have to masters. 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:52.280 And so they, for instance, are democratic countries. They are 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.480 not interested in bricks being a counter to the West. 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:01.040 They are interested simply an increasing representation in international order. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.400 And so I think that's where there is a difference. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.360 Russia at chime I might want to be using the 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.160 bricks flock to further their own interests, to further their 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.080 own placement in the world, to say, you know what, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.959 we have brains that we have allies, and these three 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.120 countries in particular are saying, you know, this is more 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:18.120 complicated than that, and we can take a step back 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.680 and see what is it that you are actually wanting 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:21.280 to achieve. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.079 Stick with us Henry and Stambilay when we come back, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.600 we'll look at what impact Russia has already had on 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:30.080 the continent and what African leaders potentially want to get 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:37.640 out of this relationship. Welcome back today on the podcast, 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:42.439 we're discussing Russia's relationship with Africa that as the Bricks 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.959 Summit ends in Kazan, Henry talk to us maybe about 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.280 where Russia has had the most influence in Africa. Stambila 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.280 really laid out there a lot of the differing relationships 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.000 that members of the Block have had, but maybe talk 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.800 to us from the perspective of the Russian state. 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.480 Yes, the major Russian influence is in West Africa, in 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.040 Sahel region, where you have a big problem with Jahadda's violence, 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.240 and this has given Russia an opening to start providing 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:16.320 security services. This began in twenty eighteen in the Central 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.600 African Republic when Russian mercenaries arrived at the invitation of 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:24.319 the president. Three years later they started to work in 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.880 Mali and this now has now accelerated this year. In 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:33.000 both Burkina Fassa and Niger. You have a Russian military presence. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.880 In addition to those countries, I would also mention a 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.720 couple of other countries where Russia does have. 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:39.760 A strong presence. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.520 Libya also a military presence in the east of the 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.600 country where Russia is allied to the Eastern Bay strongman 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.440 Halifa Haftar. Sudan, Russia is supporting power military forces which 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:56.000 are fighting the military rulers in Hartu. And then you 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.440 have other countries like Zimbabwe and of course South Africa 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.880 where you have these historic links because of Soviet support 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:04.480 for liberation movements. 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.160 We're clearly seeing this sort of tug of war for 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.679 influence and for partnership to a certain extent on the continent. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.040 I mean, Stembile, can you talk. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.640 To us about maybe the perspective of African leaders And 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.320 I know you can't speak for all of them, but 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.480 what is the benefit for them to be mentioned non 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.480 alignment to look to countries like Russia, like China. Is 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.320 it just wanting to send that message that they are 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:30.720 open to any and all partners or have we heard 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.440 from them that there's something else at play here? 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:35.840 Yeah, so definitely don't speak for all of them, Thank 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:36.200 you for that. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.200 But so Bloomberg Economy News had a really interesting piece 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.600 about this concept of geopolitical neutrality, how not picking side 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.880 is paying off for certain countries, and so previously it 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.000 would be so easy to say this country is allowed 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:52.800 at the side of the world, and so this is 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.520 how they'revoked certain things going forward. I think with the 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.040 Russian's invasion of Ukraine, that was a significant shift, even 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.560 if you look at the u END votes and how 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.760 African countries voted in or even unexpected against it, or 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.840 a large number of them choosing to abstain altogether. And 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.240 I think that was the first significant shift to say, 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.400 there is a different occurrence that's happening, and we can't 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.560 really interpret or read things through the same lens that 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.200 we had historically. Countries are asserting themselves. They have a 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.040 level of agency that they are trying to put out 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.840 there into the world, and so that happens in different 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:32.280 ways coming on board or allowing the lights of China 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.760 and Russia to come on board. There's the security issues 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.679 that Heny has spoken through, but there's also economic issues 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.280 to US and to South Africa and those that are 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.160 supporting it in their very form reform of international institutions. 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.199 One of the issue rights is access to funding and 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.800 how the developing countries are being left out for the 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.280 bar is so high for them to get access to 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:53.959 the funding that they need to develop. 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:55.239 And so when. 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:56.920 Someone like a Russia or a China comes in, of 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.880 course you can this pass the merits of the conditions 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.559 of their funding. If I need to grow my economy 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.040 today and someone is offering something, I'm. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.400 Going to go for it. I'm going to do what 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.599 in my national interests at this particular point. And so 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:09.240 I think there's a. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.320 Lot of banamafit playing growing autonomy in the region to 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.440 say how can we do things differently, how can we 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.520 do things on our term? And obviously there's a whole 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.319 lot of other stuff at play in the background. These 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.360 countries are not benevolent factors that aren't doing with out 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.120 of the goodness of their hearts. They have their own 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.959 interests at play as well. But what Russia and China 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.520 would like to do with the bricks club, that is 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.720 an zogle of that right. So they come to Africa 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.640 and it's not just them, there's bull countries as well. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.000 They have ulterior momm and I think African countries the 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.280 leaders are time to figure out, well, what can we 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.760 get out of it? You want this only? This is 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:43.800 what I want to achieve what is the middle ground, 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.480 and hardly we go about doing that. So I think 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.040 things are becoming more complicated. The proxy or that we've 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.080 seen shifted, power has shifted in terms of the global order, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.720 and everyone is just facally time to establish their place 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.040 in this and how to get the most outlaw themselves going. 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:02.200 Forward, absolutely a new multipole world and I wonder, Henry, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.319 what is next to pay attention to with this block 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.840 and with these multiple forces in this new world order? 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.880 What would you say is sort of key to watch well? 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.400 I think as far as bricks is concerned, it's the 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.280 degree to which they're going to manage to cooperate economically 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.320 and increase trade. A lot of the trade within bricks 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.320 is between China and the other countries. The other intra 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.920 bricks trade isn't that significant. The other issue is, of 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.040 course the use of the US dollar, and this is 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.280 something that Russia, because of the sanctions that have been 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.960 imposed on it over its invasion of Ukraine, is especially 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:44.200 keen to promote. There is obviously interest in that among 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.600 bricks countries, but they have a different perspective. I think 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.880 they're looking for an alternative to their ties with the West, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.880 but they're not looking to replace them fully, whereas Russia 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:55.880 is completely frozen. 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.600 Out of ties with the West. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.680 So I think we will see that trend develop, but 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.400 certainly not as fast or as deeply as Russia would 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:07.640 like to see. 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.600 And you can read more on our coverage of the 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:15.200 Brick Summit across Bloomberg News platforms. Here's a few other 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.200 stories we're watching in the region. This week, Nigerian President 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.320 Bola Tinubu announced an overhaul of his cabinet, firing five 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.320 ministers in the first such shakeup since he took office 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.960 in May of twenty twenty three. Tinubu dropped the Minister 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:36.720 of Women Affairs, Tourism, Education, Housing and Urban Development, as 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:41.200 well as the Minister of Youth Development and South Africa 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.240 plans to ease visa rules for visitors from India and 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.720 China within days to lure tourists from the world's two 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.320 most populated nations who have been deterred by red tape. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.880 Unlike travelers from many Western nations, Indian and Chinese tourists 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:00.280 need pre authorization, which could put off visitors. And you 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.920 can follow these stories across Bloomberg platforms, including the next 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.560 African newsletter. We'll put a link to that in the 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:14.240 show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.400 forget to follow and review the show wherever you usually 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.680 get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer's Abasaga. Thanks as always for listening.