1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Pope Leo celebrates a new environmentally focused mass, and the 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Senate rolls on is this change or continuity with the 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: revolution of Pope Francis. The Prayerful Posse has answers. Welcome 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: to this Arroyo Grande series The Prayerful Posse. Let's convene 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: the Posse. Joining me Father Gerald Murray Cannon, lawyer of 6 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: the Archdiocese of New York, and Robert Royal, editor in 7 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: chief of the Catholic Thing dot org, and I'm Raymond Arroyo. 8 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: Thank you both for being here. Go subscribe to the 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande Show channel now and go to iHeart, Apple, Spotify, 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. We don't want you to 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: miss an episode of the Posse. Throughout this episode, I 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: want to explore that issue of whether what we're seeing 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: from Pope Leo is a change or continuity with the 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: Francis Revolution. Pope Leo has approved a new Mass for 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: the common Home Home aka Care for Creation Now. This 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: is a liturgy that's now part of the Roman Missile. 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: It seeks to inspire Catholics to greater care for the planet. 18 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: This is also the tenth anniversary of l'au dauto c 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: that's Pope Francis's ecological teaching document. The Pope celebrated the 20 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: new pope the Care of Creation Mass this week at 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: his summer residence. Pope Leo said, this gence, we must 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: pray for the conversion of so many people inside and 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: out of the Church who still don't recognize the urgency 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: of caring for our common home. We see so many 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: natural disasters in the world nearly every day and in 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: so many countries that are in part caused by the 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: excesses of being human with our lifestyle. Bob, your thoughts 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: on this Mass of Creation, this new right for the occasion, 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: and you wrote a column about this this week. What 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: should we be noticing about this new liturgy? 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a mixed bag. I'm sorry to 32 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: not come up with a you know, a kind of 33 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: a definitive answer. But I like the idea of trying 34 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: to recover the sacredness of creation. I think that that's 35 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: an important thing in the West. You know, we've become 36 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: too rationalistic, too materialistic, and so that that opposition to 37 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: like the last two hundred years of regarding the world 38 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: is just matter and energy and there's no place for 39 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: value and the kind of high aspirations that the Church 40 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: and other spiritual traditions have tried to maintain in the world. 41 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: I think all that is to the good, and so 42 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 2: the resacralization of the world I think is good. When 43 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: you turn to the actual proposals to deal with various 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: ecological problems, there is where I think the sticking point 45 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: comes up, because we can't simply move from the idea 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: that nature is reveals something about God as creator and 47 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: then assume that we know absolutely what needs to be 48 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: done in every case. There are always trade offs in 49 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: these matters, and so you can say, for example, we 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: should abandon using fossil fuels, well, yes, that's a nice 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 2: aspiration in theory, but in the meantime, an awful lot 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: of people depend on that for energy to get to 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: their jobs, you know, to make their houses warm. It's 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: just the debate that has to go on goes beyond 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: that liturgical change that's there, and that's where I think 56 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: that we still need to see a lot of discussion 57 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: go on with in the Church, because the Church has 58 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: just been I think a little bit too ready to 59 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: accept the secular nostrums that mostly come from the progressive side. 60 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: Of modern culture. 61 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: Well, there is that line there, father, I mean, I'm 62 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: going to read it back to at the end where 63 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: he says that, you know, a lot of these disasters 64 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: we're seeing in the world are quote in part, caused 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: by the excesses of being human with our lifestyle. 66 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, this is the man made climate change argument, 67 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: which is not a unanimous I mean, it's presented as unanimous, 68 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: of course, in the mainstream media, and that's accepted by 69 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: many people. But you know, we've had cycles of freezing 70 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: temperatures and heat, and you know, you just look at 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 3: the course of recorded history in Europe. So to try 72 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: and attribute things simply to human activity, and that that 73 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 3: activity is violating the order of nature, we have to 74 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: step back. Because remember, according to the creation account that 75 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: we have in the Book of Genesis, God created the 76 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 3: world for us, for man, for men and women, and 77 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 3: he said he, you know, commanders to subdue the earth, 78 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: meaning to put it to good use so as to 79 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 3: make possible human flourishing, not just survival. So the exploitation 80 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 3: of natural resources is not a violation of God's will. 81 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: It's rather a fulfillment of his will, and it makes 82 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 3: possible human life and prosperity. So this is something that 83 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 3: sometimes gets forgotten. We get a dichotomy. There's man on 84 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: the one hand, and then there's nature on the other, 85 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 3: and each has equal claims to be respected. Bob's right, 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 3: and this is always told we have to be grateful 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 3: for the creation and treated properly. But there's no you know, 88 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: Proposition one leads to the following ten conclusions that no 89 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: one can deny that doesn't exist. 90 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, father, why are we introducing innovative masses to the 91 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: Roman canon like this though? I mean, this is about 92 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: essentially a mass for the protection of the environment, while 93 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: the Latin right remains on the endangered list. I was 94 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: frankly stunned to learn, and I just learned there are 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: fifty fifty of these optional masses in the Novasorto for 96 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: particular causes. 97 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 3: Well, there always been prayers historically for intentions, you know, 98 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 3: So we pray for vocations, We pray for, you know, 99 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: the protection from harm from floods. 100 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 4: And things of that sort. We do ask God. 101 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 3: Now, the question is is this the mass is not 102 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: being offered in homage and Mother Nature. 103 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 4: You know, we should never get that mistake. 104 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: It's not as if you know, for many people you 105 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: hold a mass in order to show appreciation for XYZ 106 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 3: person or thing. No masses are offered to God in 107 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 3: honor of the saints, in suffrage for the dead. 108 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: And in the case of nature, we pray that God 109 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 4: will give us the correct. 110 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 3: Insights to make good use of nature. But that's as 111 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: Bob says, they're trade offs. I mean, if I need 112 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 3: to cut down a tree to build a log cabin, 113 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: am I offending the forest And the answer is, of 114 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 3: course not, Because God put the forest there so that 115 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: you could cut it. 116 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 4: He's down and build homes. Right. 117 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: And as far as natural I mean, natural disasters have 118 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: been with us and will be with us till the 119 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: end of time. I mean that's part of nature and 120 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: the wonder and power of nature. You know, every place 121 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: is not necessarily inhabitable either. Now, look, I'd say that 122 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: sitting in New Orleans, we're ten feet below sea level, 123 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: is very fragile place. But I recognize that, and I 124 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: think we all have to kind of get a sense 125 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: of Okay, you're here, but ah, we're all on borrowed 126 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: time and we're guests here. And I think that's part 127 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: of the equation. This idea that we're somehow I'm entitled 128 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: to be here forever, and if nature goes awry and 129 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: washes us away, that somehow that's my doing or the 130 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: doing of the people here. I worry about that the 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: human impact of this. Now, Bob, Pope Francis authorized the 132 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: blessing of gay couples, and there has been some push 133 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: since Pope Leo has come to the throne to reevaluate 134 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: that practice. And just last week Cardinal Abongo of Congo, 135 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: who got an exemption from blessing gay couples for Africa, 136 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: said the following the position taken by Africa on the 137 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: declaration was also the position of many bishops here in Europe. 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: It's not just an African exception. Well, this week Pope 139 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: Leo received the head of the Vatican Doctrinal Office for Now, 140 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez. He received him in an audience 141 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: and afterwards the cardinal rather emphatically stated that fiducia suplicons, 142 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: that's the document that held the twenty twenty three Vatican 143 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: Declaration approved by Pope Francis, that allowed the blessing of 144 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: these irregular unions. Divorced and remarried Catholics without annulmens as 145 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: well as same sex couples will quote remain in effect. 146 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: In the new pontificate of Pope Leo, the Cardinal says 147 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: there's going to be no modifications or edits to that document. 148 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: What do you make of that, bob, and why is 149 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: he presumably and I guess Pope Leo doubling down on this. 150 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: Well, I would be a little slow to draw conclusions 151 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: about this. It seems that Leo is the kind of 152 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 2: guy who doesn't like abrupt changes, and it may be 153 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: that in this instance, as well as in some others, 154 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: we need to wait a bit and see what actually 155 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: comes out of this. I find it, though, very just 156 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: disturbing that on something that caused so much controversy. And 157 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 2: by the way, Carnel Ambongo also said because the there 158 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 2: was sort of a compromise reach and Pope Francis came 159 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 2: out and said, well, in Africa, it's a cultural thing 160 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: with them, they don't really like it homosexuality, and so 161 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 2: we have to give him a carbot. He's also said 162 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: in recent weeks that no, that's not the case. This 163 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: is not a cultural matter. It's a theological matter, and 164 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: it's a moral matter that goes all the way back 165 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: to the earliest parts of the Church and the New Testament. 166 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: Saint Paul talks about this in the first chapter of 167 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: Romans one, and of course it also goes back into 168 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 2: the Jewish heritage that we've we've we've inherited from the 169 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: from the Jews. I mean, a friend of mine used 170 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: to say that the Catholic Church is the only institution 171 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 2: left defending Moses in the modern world, because it's the 172 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: Mosaic law that first prohibited homosexuality. So I don't like 173 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 2: that we're retained this. It may be that what Leo 174 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: wants to do is to avoid directly contradicting what his predecessor, 175 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: who's very affectionate towards has already done. Then again, it 176 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: may be that he really does want to continue what 177 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: is really a radical change from what the Church has 178 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 2: taught in the past. And that document goes straight out 179 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 2: I'll let father talk about this, but it goes straight 180 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: out talking about blessing couples. There's been a chance an 181 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: attempt to clean up after the fact and say, oh, no, 182 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 2: these are just the individuals who happen to be in 183 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: this relationship. But no, it talks about couples, And you 184 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: can't bless a couple that is involved in a sinful 185 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: situation and claim that it's part of the Catholic True Father. 186 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, our possibly member Bob says, we 187 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: got to wait. But when you have had the head 188 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: of the Doctrinal Office coming out and brazenly saying and 189 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: if he's saying this in opposition to what the Pope 190 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: just told him, he clearly is looking for the exits, Okay, 191 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: but to come out and say that this will remain 192 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: the law of the land, if you will, the blessing 193 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: of gay couples in the Catholic Church. That seems pretty 194 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: emphatic to me. 195 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 4: Yeah. 196 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: And as part of the chaotic style of the past pontificate, 197 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: where press conferences became, where we learned what the Pope 198 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 3: isn't tending to implement the life of the church. No, 199 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: it was very wrong for Cardinal Fernandez to answer any 200 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 3: question about what Pope Leo is going to do. That 201 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 3: has to be up to Pope Leo, not to Cardinal Fernandez. 202 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: And by doing that, he's now again this chaotic manner 203 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: of acting. Pope Leo has every prerogative and right to 204 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: take time to make decisions. He's only been in the 205 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 3: pontificate now about three months, so that was very improved. 206 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 3: And I agree with Bob one hundred percent. If this 207 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: does actually represent Pope Leo's intent, well I hope he'll 208 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: make that clear and explain why, because the opposition to 209 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: it is not based on culture, it's not based on rejudice. 210 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 4: It's based on theology. 211 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 3: And I'll remind you that earlier in the pontificy to 212 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 3: Pope Francis, the Congregation of the Doctor of the Faith 213 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: issued a document saying that we cannot bless sin because 214 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 3: this request to bless homosexual couples has been with us 215 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 3: for a long time. So the earlier document said no, 216 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 3: then about a year and a half later they said yes. 217 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: Talk about abrupt changes. That's exactly what that was. So 218 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 3: we need to get back to the clear Catholic teaching, 219 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 3: which is that homosexual activity is a mortal sin and 220 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: cannot be blessed because people who engage in that and 221 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: proclaim to the world that that's their behavior, by the 222 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: way they live, they need to be called a repentance, 223 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: not blessed. 224 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: You and you believe then that Cardinal Fernandez's comments are 225 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: to be put aside that this is not definitive. 226 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: I don't yeah, I mean so, he has no power 227 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 3: to say that fiducia suplicans will remain. Therefore, he should 228 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: never have said that. He should say that's up to 229 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 3: Pope Leo to determine. We'll find out. 230 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: If anything marked the papacy gents of Pope Francis, it 231 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: was the opening of the governance of the church to laity. 232 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: He called it cynidality. It sounded like Pope Leo was 233 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: slow rolling this or trying to redefine it in the 234 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: first days of his pontificate. But this week the Vatican 235 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: released a new document with guidelines for the next phase 236 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: of the late Pope Francis' Sonadyl process. According to Vatican News, 237 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: pathways for the implementation phase of the synod aims to 238 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: foster dialogue between local churches and the General Secretariat, that's 239 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: the bureaucrats in Rome, and to promote the exchange of 240 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: Sonadyl experiences among the churches. End quote Bob, is the 241 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: Sonadyl revolution rolling along and will sinidality continue unbroken into 242 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: this new pontificate? 243 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: Well, for right now it seems like it is. I 244 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: think that a lot of this was already baked in 245 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 2: when Leo was elected. We were always looking forward to 246 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight, when this so called ecclesial Assembly is 247 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: going to come together after another three years of studying 248 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: various questions and dialoguing with one another. And if you 249 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: go through that document, I did go through it today, 250 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: I have to say, and I am not the better 251 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: for having done so. But if you go through that, 252 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: the language is like very much what you just quoted. 253 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: There is constant reference to listening and to opening, and 254 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: to new initiatives that allow us to interact with one 255 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: another and whatnot. I mean, insofar as there's anything to 256 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: anything substantive to it. In a place like the United States, 257 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 2: I think we were already doing well with that. We 258 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: have our parish councils and financial advisors, and a discussion 259 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: goes on in the church. This document, which purports to 260 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: help the church do better to evangelize, looks like nothing 261 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 2: so much as something that Leo has spoken against and 262 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: written against for much of his life. And that is 263 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: a kind of a managerial approach to the church. It's 264 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: all inward looking about what we're doing with one another, 265 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: and we're bringing in people who have been ignored in 266 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: the past, etc. To me, it's an utter disaster in 267 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: terms of trying to evangelize the world, which really has 268 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: to have a different kind of spirit, a different kind 269 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 2: of language, and a different kind of procedure in the 270 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: next three years. Of these various things that they've laid out, 271 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: where you discussed locally, then nationally, than internationally, then continentally, 272 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: and then finally this ecclesial assembly, it just seems to 273 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: me to be a lumbering, bureaucratic process. 274 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Father, look, I would argue, but we're referenced a 275 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: second ago. Latins easier to understand than synod is. Okay, 276 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: I don't know what they're saying half the time. But 277 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Sister Natalie Beckcourt, who's the Undersecretary of this General Secretariat 278 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: of the Senate, was asked by Vatican News to give 279 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: a baseline definition of sinidality. Here's what she said. Quote, 280 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: we can also understand sinidality in two different ways that 281 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: can help. The first and I often quote an Australian 282 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: theologian who is at our Senate, our Senate, Ormond Rush, 283 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: who states sinidality is the second. Vatican Council. In a nutshell, 284 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: we can say sinidality is the way to understand the 285 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: ecclesiology of the Second Vatican Council in this stage of 286 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: the reception of the Council. So it's nothing else but 287 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: just continuing the reception of the Second Vatican Council because 288 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: the Council is not yet implemented everywhere in a way, 289 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: and we can say sinidality is a way to help 290 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: the Church to become more missionary and more participatory. So 291 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: cinidality is the way God is calling the Church to 292 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: be today to better exercise our mission. So it's a 293 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: way to be church. End quote Father, what does that 294 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: mean to be church? This is like the return of 295 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: the spirit of Vatican two back in action again. 296 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 3: You know, this statement is full of so many problems 297 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: being church. That whole concept, this is a sociological approach 298 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 3: to how people gather for religious purposes, has nothing to 299 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 3: do with the Catholic churches. The Catholic Church is the 300 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: mystical body of Christ and it was created by the 301 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 3: external son of God who became man, who revealed to 302 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 3: the apostles that he was building the Church on Peter 303 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 3: and on them. So it's by nature hierarchical gathering, and 304 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 3: what was the purpose of it to teach all nations, 305 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 3: to baptize them and to observe everything that I have 306 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 3: commanded you. So the mission of the Church is to 307 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 3: draw people through sacramental life, into union with God and 308 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: into a belief and exactly what God himself had said. 309 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 3: Sinidality is nothing about that. The way I look at 310 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 3: it right now is Cinidality is not an fulfillment of 311 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 3: anything the Vatican two said. It's an attempt to be 312 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 3: Vatican three. It's an attempt to have basically a democratization 313 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: of the Catholic Church in the name somehow of the 314 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 3: baptismal vocation of everybody to be in charge, you know, 315 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: potentially or actually this is really bad. And I have 316 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 3: to say, Raymond, the fraudulence of so much of what 317 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 3: the sinidality movement has engaged in is revealed by the 318 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 3: fact that they've canceled the next synod. The next synod 319 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 3: is being canceled because it's not good enough. They're having 320 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 3: an ecclesial assembly. 321 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: Now. 322 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 3: They haven't told us who's going to be there and 323 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 3: how many of them will be there, but we know 324 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: where it's going it's going to be one third laity, 325 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: one third clergy and religious, one third bishops and cardinals. 326 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 3: It's going to be something along those lines. 327 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 4: What is that? 328 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: That's anglicanism't That's where the church itself is dependent on 329 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 3: all its members agreeing to anything, and the cathader is 330 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: not like that. It's about Peter and the apostles and 331 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: their successors being the shepherds and the flock receiving guidance 332 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: from them. 333 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: Akin to this, Pope Francis authorized these study groups. This 334 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: was at the last Senate when he was still alive, 335 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: to examine a series of hot topics that he took 336 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: off the table for discussion at that Senate. But he 337 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: did it mostly to keep these issues in play. I 338 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: think that was at least the bureaucratic move. Now, those 339 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: reports were due June thirtieth, which just passed well. This 340 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: week it was announced those final reports will be turned 341 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: in at the end of the year. They included controversial 342 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: issues like a female diaconet married priest, the same litany 343 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: we've been hearing really since Vatican Two. The Vatican Senate 344 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: Office will publish brief summary reports later this month. Now 345 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why they're turning it in Bob later 346 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: this month, when it's not due till the end of 347 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: the year. But your thoughts on this delay. Pope Leo 348 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: has given the go ahead for this to proceed. We 349 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: have to say that what do you expect we'll see 350 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: in these reports ones released? 351 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: Well, I think originally they were set up that way 352 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: by Pub Francis because you wanted to kick the can 353 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 2: down the road. It was clear he didn't want to 354 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: have to make decisions, and maybe that's the same thing 355 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: that's going on with Pope Leo at this point. By 356 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: the way, he added two additional study groups according to 357 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 2: that announcement, one is to study liturgy. And as we know, 358 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: the revelation that the Pope decided to suppress basically suppress 359 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: the Latin Mass around the world, which he said was 360 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: the desire of the bishops who felt very troubled about it, 361 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 2: that was not true. What we know instead is that 362 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 2: the survey that was done was actually very positive about 363 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: the interaction between the Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo mass. 364 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: So the fact that Leo has created this new study 365 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: group for liturgy says to me that what he wants 366 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 2: to do is to put off having to decide about 367 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 2: what to do with this revelation about the Latin Mass 368 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: and what to do about the Latin Mass itself until 369 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: at least the end of the year, And as I 370 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: said on a previous show, I think that the way 371 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 2: that he handles this question is going to tell us 372 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: a great deal about him as a pope, because here's 373 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 2: a place where clearly an injustice was done on the 374 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: basis of some falsehood. Some people have criticized me for 375 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: saying that it was lying. Okay, if you want to 376 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: say it was a misimpression. I mean, certainly the Pube 377 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: created the idea that the bishops of the world had 378 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: told him that this was a problem. But whatever you 379 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: think about that, Leo is going to have to deal 380 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: with what is an injustice and a lack of truth 381 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: about what the situation is over the Latin Mass, and 382 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: so he's put this off to December for the report. 383 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: I think if he is the person who we hope 384 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: him to be, he will deal swiftly after that report 385 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: comes in to restore the Latin and to correct an injustice. 386 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: But we'll see, and it'll be by the end of 387 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: the year. Are the earlier part of twenty twenty. 388 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: Seven, Father, My question is why allow these other study 389 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: groups to proceed at all? He could have just said, 390 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: you know, given the TLM survey results and by the way, 391 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: if you don't know the story on that report that 392 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: came out, they pulled the bishops of the world. The 393 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: reports came in and the survey was suppressed. Well, last 394 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 1: week we did a whole episode on it. We'll tell 395 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: you exactly what the bishop said. You can go back 396 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: and watch that. But why allow these other study committees 397 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: to continue? Father? When these issues are settled, whether priests 398 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: can be married, or whether you can bless certain unions, 399 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: or whether people can be married, or a female diaconate, 400 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: all of this has been settled. 401 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: It has been and this is actually getting to the 402 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: root of what centideality is all about. It's about putting 403 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 3: the Church into a tentative and questioning mode every day 404 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: of the year, every year in the future. The Senates 405 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 3: were meant by the Second Vatican You want to get 406 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 3: back to Vatican. 407 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 4: Two, let's read what they said. 408 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 3: The Senates were consultation between selected bishops throughout the world 409 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 3: with the Roman pontiff to discuss questions that the Pope 410 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 3: identified and he'd like to get their input on it, 411 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 3: which is very rational and a good thing. What has 412 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 3: turned into now is a permanent committee of people dedicated 413 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: to many different things that they kind of state in 414 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: obscure ways of talking. In this document that they just 415 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 3: issued by Pathways, they talk about well, you know, and 416 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 3: when there's a discussion of controversial issues, it's not a 417 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: matter of one side winning over the other. And I 418 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 3: thought to myself, tell that to the fathers at the 419 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 3: Council of Nicea. They affirmed the divinity of Christ, they 420 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: did not affirm that you can both believe in denying 421 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 3: the divinity of Christ and remain a follower of Christ. 422 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 3: So this is basically process theology, which is an old 423 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: problem back from the sixties. Bob knows what I'm talking about, 424 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 3: where the truth is always being sought but never gained. 425 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 4: What we do, yeah, never attained. 426 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,239 Speaker 3: So what we do in the process is we come 427 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 3: up with temporary solutions and we find out how well 428 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: is it received by the people, and then we change 429 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: something later on. Now, for me, for instance, how can 430 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 3: you have say synidality consists of gathering people, but then 431 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 3: take away topics and say we got to get experts 432 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 3: to tell us what the people think. In essence just 433 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 3: doesn't make sense. 434 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: Well in the expert who are who are these experts? 435 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: This is the this is the whole problem. Before it 436 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: was if the pope was looking at how do we 437 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: deal with the East, he would bring in cardinals from 438 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: the east or bishops from the east, so we could 439 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: get their opinions, get their feedback, get their perspective from 440 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: the ground. But now you're talking about fantasy land. What 441 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: does a female diacon it look like? Should we have 442 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: one who's in the room and we don't know any 443 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: of that father, This is part of the problem. It's 444 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: an ever evolving It's a mechanism to basically launder heresy. 445 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: That's what this is. We just have to say that. 446 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 3: Some committees we know the members are, but the crucial 447 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 3: one on doctrine we don't. That has those members have 448 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: not been reported, so that in the self caused the 449 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 3: whole thing, suspicion about the whole thing. Are you afraid 450 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 3: that if we know who's looking at the women diact 451 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: in it, that we might try to write them a 452 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: letter and tell them, you know, this is what you 453 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: should do. I mean, talk about a closed shop talk 454 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 3: about all of mirrors. 455 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 4: I thought this was. 456 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: Supposed to be discussed by the by the assembled delegates 457 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 3: back last October. Well, the Pope France said, no, we 458 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 3: gotta have the experts. Who are the experts. Well, we'll 459 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,239 Speaker 3: let you know when we let you know. 460 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm afraid it's. 461 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: Cart very interesting go ahead, very interesting to see who 462 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: the experts are are appointed to that Special Study Committee 463 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: on the Liturgy, because, as we know, personnel is policy, 464 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: and so if we know who is being appointed, we 465 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 2: can perhaps predict the what we'll come out at the 466 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: other end. 467 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: Well, we'll keep our eyes on that. In the weeks ahead. Father, 468 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: We've been covering the Marco Rupnik story. I'm going to 469 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: give you a crack at this at the top, because 470 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: I know this is a you were particularly focused on this, 471 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: the disgrace Jesuit mosaic artists. He was accused of abusing 472 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,959 Speaker 1: nuns I think twenty nuns in his order, and the 473 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: charges are stark. I'm not even going to get into them. 474 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: They're so gross and depraved. But he was excommunicated and 475 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: then unexcommunicated by the former Pope. Then he was put 476 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: back in ministry somehow, and was very close to Pope Francis. 477 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: Now Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez, the Vatican doc trinal officer 478 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. He announced that a panel of 479 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: judges for the canonical trial against Marco Rupnik have finally 480 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: been chosen. According to Fernandez, the panel is quote made 481 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: up of judges who are all independent and external to 482 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: our dicastory. Father. Then, Bob, what do you make of 483 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: the time it took to unpanel these judges and still 484 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: no word on the start day of this trial. 485 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: Now, this has been a disgraceful display of canonical Insussians, 486 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 3: meaning they didn't really care to get this thing going. 487 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 3: It was only actually when pressure was put upon them. 488 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: A number of those victims had a couple of press conferences, 489 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: including their lawyer, and then the Vatican suddenly, you know, 490 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: everything then preceded. But then it didn't proceed because left 491 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 3: January or February cardinal finance and we're having trouble getting judges. 492 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, there's no trouble getting judges, well, you do. 493 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 4: There are plenty of. 494 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: Canon law judges out there in the church, plenty in Italy. 495 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 3: I study in Italy, a lot of canon lawyers in Italy. 496 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: All you gotta do is tap three of them. No, 497 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 3: the question now will be will Roupe to cooperate, will 498 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 3: he be summoned to the trial? 499 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 4: Will he give evidence? How well would the prosecutors do? 500 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 3: This thing needs to be resolved and resolved with speed, 501 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: because it's a disgrace that we can say we are 502 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 3: a zero tolerance church when it comes to sexual abuse. 503 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: But a man who was throw own out of the 504 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 3: Jesuits in part because of this is still functioning as 505 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: a priest of a diaces in his native Slovenia and 506 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: is traveling the world as a priest when he's got 507 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 3: this horrendous set of facts behind him. So they got 508 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 3: to do something. They got to do it quick. Bob 509 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: your reaction. 510 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, when we want to talk about injustice, I know, 511 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: and probably both of you know too, priests who had 512 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 2: been accused here in the United States are the flimsiest 513 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: of charges. The things that I'm actually surprised that the 514 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 2: church even reacted to. But I guess we're all, you know, 515 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 2: we're kind of in a hair trigger moment where we 516 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: don't want to see any further abuse. We have zero tolerance, etc. 517 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: And they're immediately removed from ministry. 518 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: You know. 519 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: See, I've had one priest in particular that I worked 520 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: with for a number of years who was immediately removed 521 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 2: when there was a kind of a charge. It was 522 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: later discovered that it was a false charge. But does 523 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: he ever get restored to ministry. 524 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: No. 525 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Wow, is very prominent artist who's close to Pope 526 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: Francis to this day is allowed to function as a priest. Now, 527 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm grateful, and I'm hoping that this is a result 528 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: of Leo coming to power and so that the unfreezing 529 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: of the way that it was being slow walked for 530 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: so long prior to his becoming pope. But still, at 531 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: the same time, I don't understand. Father, Maybe you can 532 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 2: enlighten us about the canon law status here, but how 533 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: is it possible that a man that has been accused 534 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: of so many grave, horrible instances of misconduct is still 535 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: walking around as a priest. It makes no sense whatever 536 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: in the kind of church that we claim to be. 537 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, now I'll answer it quickly. Close bishop in Slovenia 538 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 3: is allowing him to continue to operate, and the Holy 539 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 3: See has not instructed that bishop to put this man 540 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 3: under what we would call provisions to prevent him from 541 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 3: engaging in the kind of behavior he's accused of, so 542 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: making use of his priesthood as a public person in 543 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 3: the church to to be able to influence people. He 544 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 3: should be identified as someone under serious accusation and has 545 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 3: been judged worthy to be tried. 546 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Meanwhile, as Bob referenced, I know priests in 547 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: the United States who have been removed and later cleared 548 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: because they were too angry or had anger issues, because 549 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: they reacted to some crazy thing in the parish and 550 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: they got complained about. Next thing, you know, they're out 551 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: of ministry. They're still not back. But this guy who 552 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: engaged not only misconduct, Bob, canonical crimes, canonical crimes, he 553 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: used his priesthood and artistry to abuse and pervert sacraments. 554 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: It's really sick. I mean, it's sick of on a 555 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: level that frankly boggles the mind. This has got to 556 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: be taken care of. Bob pop Leo will be taking 557 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: a much needed retreat arrest in Rome this summer. Maybe 558 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: I need a rest. He's going to Costal Gondolfo. He's 559 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: going to be scaling back some of his public appearances 560 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: and responsibilities. The talk is that he might be writing 561 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: his first encyclical, starting work on this first paper in cyclical, 562 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: like his predecessor, Pope Benedict, who liked to engage in 563 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: music and play his keyboards while he was at Costal Gondolfo, 564 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: what might be the focus of that first and cyclical, Bob. 565 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: Well, I mean you mean, you know, we can only 566 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: guess about it. Yes, I'm inclined to think that he 567 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: is inspired by a predecessor, Leo the thirteenth, who addressed 568 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: the changes that were occurring in society. Back at the 569 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 2: end of the nineteenth century. People were moving off the 570 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: farms into cities, so there was a kind of a 571 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: shift in the society. There was industrialization that was going on, 572 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: there was a dislocation of families, and so really there 573 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: was a new moment, and Leo wrote several important encyclicals 574 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: that were the beginning of the tradition of Catholic social thought. 575 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 2: Leo has talked about AI and talked about other things 576 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: that are going on in our society. I'm feeling that 577 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: this will be a kind of an Augustinian approach to 578 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: the status questianers, where are we right now? As a 579 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 2: global society. What is the role of the church at 580 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 2: this moment when technologies seem to be running away with us, 581 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 2: that we seem to be losing our foundations in society 582 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: and in the church, and people are just they're at 583 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: a loss where to look for something that's going to 584 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: help them live a life that's meaningful and it's founded 585 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: on truth. So I would like to see that that's 586 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: what it is, and I think that there are indications 587 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 2: that that may be what he's going to be doing. 588 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: But it'll be great to see what his first encyclicals. 589 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to move on to this report and 590 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 1: the pillar this week that revealed and archbishop in France 591 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: recently appointed a priest convicted of raping a sixteen year 592 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: old boy, and he appointed that priest to the position 593 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: of archdiocese and chancellor as quote an act of mercy. 594 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: Archbishop guy Andre Marie de Carrimel of the Archdiocese of 595 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: Toulouse made father Dominique Spina or Spina, the Chancellor an 596 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: episcopal delegate for marriages in that archdiocese. In two thousand 597 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: and six, his father Spinna was convicted of a rape 598 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: of a sixteen year old boy. He subsequently was sentenced 599 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: to five years in prison. Father. According to the archbishop, 600 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: the position is quote mostly administrative. What do you make 601 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: of the judgment here? I mean the chancellor of marriages 602 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: for the archdiocese has served prison time and they consider 603 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: this an act of mercy. 604 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 3: Well, if the facts has stated are correct, raping a 605 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: sixteen year old is canonical crime that can be punished 606 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: by removal from the ecclesiastical state. That he can be 607 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: removed from the priesthood. I'd like to know if the 608 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 3: diocese ever sent this case to Rome for judgment, because 609 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 3: this is this is a serious matter. The local diocese 610 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 3: does not have the discretion to say, well, he did 611 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 3: his four years in prison and that's all the punishment 612 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 3: that's going to be given. We have to remember this 613 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 3: is a crime that involved his use of the priesthood 614 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:22,760 Speaker 3: to accomplish horrendous evil of a sexual nature on a youth, 615 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 3: on a youth or a teenager in this case. So 616 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 3: this is horrible. The idea that this man should now 617 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 3: be given a very important role in his archdiocese and 618 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 3: that it has something to do even with the marriage formation, 619 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 3: is this is ridiculous. I have to say that bishop 620 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 3: has made a grave error. The message that's sent out 621 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 3: is Catholic priests who commit crimes and end up in 622 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 3: French prisons have a home in archdiocese and administration in Toulouse, 623 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 3: rather than they should be prosecuted canonically, perhaps phaps removed 624 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 3: from the priesthood, but they should certainly not be given 625 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 3: the care of souls. He's demonstrated by his life that 626 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 3: he doesn't care for souls. And if he says now 627 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 3: that I have okay, well the answer is care for 628 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 3: them by prayer and penance, because that's what he should 629 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 3: be doing. 630 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, zero tolerance, except when you decide to extend an 631 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: act of mercy to an offender like this, it just 632 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: looks horrible. It's a horrible witness for the church, particularly today, 633 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: given all we know. Okay, here's I want to do this. 634 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: I'm instituting this every week, Posse. We're going to do 635 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: a round up at the end of every episode. Given 636 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: what we saw this week, is Leo charting a course 637 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: for change or is this a continuation of the Francis Revolution? 638 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 2: Bob Well, I've been reading into some material about his life, 639 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: and we also see from the way he conducts himself 640 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 2: that is he's kind of a man of deliberation and 641 00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: of careful talk, etc. So I don't expect that we're 642 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: going to see some of the large reversals that we 643 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 2: would like to see on matters like the blessing of 644 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: homosexuals or the Latin mass. I think that if those 645 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 2: do come, it's going to take a while, but we'll see. 646 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 2: I think we're going to see very soon what kind 647 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: of papacy that this is going to be. I mean 648 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 2: this example you just brought forth about the bishop. He 649 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 2: used to be the head of the officers that appointed bishops, 650 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: and so you should know about these men, about the 651 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 2: things that they do well and things that they do badly, 652 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: How he handles cases like that, It's going to tell 653 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 2: us a lot about what type of leader he is. 654 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: Father. Is this revolution or change. 655 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 3: Uncertain at this moment, but we'll learn pretty quickly. Because 656 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 3: you know the heads of the dicastories, meaning the departments 657 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 3: basically these cabinet officers and running the Holy See. If 658 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 3: he makes some changes that indicate that he's not happy 659 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 3: with some of the personnel that Pope Francis put in there, 660 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 3: that'll be a good sign. If people get reconfirmed by 661 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 3: and large as a group, then that's pretty much an 662 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 3: indication that Pope Leo would be happy to continue the 663 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,760 Speaker 3: policies that these people implemented previous to Leo taking the throne. 664 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 3: And unless Pope Leo said's an entirely new course, the 665 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 3: chances are those policies will continue. So that remains to 666 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 3: be seen. He is a deliberate man, he's thoughtful, he's 667 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 3: a good listener, and he's been used to executive authority 668 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 3: because remember head of his order for twelve years, he's 669 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 3: been a diocesan bishop. He knows how to make decisions 670 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: and let's see what those are. 671 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he got high marks, we should say, as 672 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: head of the Augustinian Order when he was in his 673 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: diocese in Peru. So look, I'm still hopeful. But the 674 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: fall and the winter are going to tell the tale. 675 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: I hope when the summer ends we begin to see 676 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: at least a glimmer of where he means to take 677 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: the church, because there's a lot of suffering, confusion and 678 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: frankly outrage out there that needs to quell, that needs 679 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: to be calmed, and only the pope can really do that. Posse, 680 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna leave it there. If you want more of 681 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to The Arroyo Grande 682 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: Show on YouTube or the podcast wherever you get yours 683 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: on behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray. Until the 684 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: Posse rides again, Stay the course, follow the light. I'm 685 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time. Find Arroyo Grande 686 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcast. It's available on 687 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, Apple wherever you get your podcasts