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Speaker 1: She told me that Donald was chasing her around his

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Speaker 1: hotel room.

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Speaker 2: And at that time what she told me was tidy whities.

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Speaker 3: That was some woman I saw her on whatever show

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Speaker 3: I was watching yesterday. So she's another aging hot blonde

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Speaker 3: who was there at the golf tournament at Lake Tahoe

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Speaker 3: back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Because that's where a whole.

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Speaker 3: Bunch of rich guys are, is the only reason I

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Speaker 3: can figure out they're there. And Stormy actually invited her,

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Speaker 3: said you ought to come up to Trump's room too,

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Speaker 3: and she said, nah, I gotta I'm doing something else.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she found some other rich guy to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: But Stormy Daniels is back on the stand today. The

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Speaker 3: cross examination has continued. Specifically, they started by asking her

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Speaker 3: how in twenty eleven, five years before she signed a

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Speaker 3: non disclosure agreement. They suggested that she had been denying

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Speaker 3: the encounter all up until a certain point, and so

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Speaker 3: they're trying to make the argument that it's clearly was

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Speaker 3: extortion when the election happened. The Wall Journal lead opinion

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Speaker 3: today is the Stormy Daniels sex Trial. The salacious details

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Speaker 3: of her testimony were irrelevant to the charges against Trump.

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Speaker 3: As you may recall, the details got rather detailed, to

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Speaker 3: the disgust of everyone present, including apparently the judge. The

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Speaker 3: defense asked for a mistrial. The judge said, were not

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Speaker 3: at that point yet, but certainly there were some things

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Speaker 3: said that shouldn't be said.

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Speaker 4: Not impressed by the judge. Seems to me to just

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Speaker 4: be riddled with holes that can be appealed. But what

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Speaker 4: the hell do I know? Compared to retired Superior Court

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Speaker 4: judge Larry Goodman, who served on the bench for thirty

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Speaker 4: one years in the Superior Court, handled many many trials,

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Speaker 4: including many murder trials in Alameda County in the San

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Speaker 4: Francisco Bay area in the courthouse in Oakland, he is also,

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Speaker 4: rumor has it, according to the Internet, the father of

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Speaker 4: one Katie Green, Your honor, how are.

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Speaker 1: You, sir?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great? Thanks? How are you guys?

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Speaker 4: Good?

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Speaker 1: Can we call you Larry Larry?

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Speaker 2: Yeh absolutely?

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Speaker 3: How does one become a judge? What's the career path

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Speaker 3: through coming a judge?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 5: It depends on if you know the governor or not.

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Speaker 5: I was appointed by George Duke Masian, So so.

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Speaker 3: You're appointed by a governor? Like were you? What were

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Speaker 3: you before you were a judge.

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Speaker 2: I was a civil attorney. That, okay, you're a lawyer

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Speaker 2: criminal cases.

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Speaker 5: And then I met then Attorney General George Duke Mason,

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Speaker 5: and then when he became governor he appointed me to

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Speaker 5: the bench.

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Speaker 1: There you go.

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Speaker 2: Excellent.

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Speaker 4: I've long said I'd be a good judge because I'm

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Speaker 4: so judgmental. Is there more too than that? I can't really,

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Speaker 4: you know, kind of go.

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Speaker 2: With the flow.

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Speaker 4: So Larry, why don't we just start where we introduced

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Speaker 4: the segment Stormy Daniel's testimony, the slacious sexual details and

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Speaker 4: the relationship to the actual charges.

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Speaker 1: What's your opinion on all that?

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Speaker 2: It's totally irrelevant.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's a shock to anybody that's a

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Speaker 5: decent judge that this was ever let in. It has

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Speaker 5: nothing to do with the charges. The test you normally

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Speaker 5: use is the probat to value outweigh the prejudicial effect.

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Speaker 5: And I don't know how anybody with any sense could

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Speaker 5: say that the probative value.

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Speaker 3: Most of these words you can't use if you're talking

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Speaker 3: about Stormy Daniels. We can't use the word probative.

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Speaker 2: Nope.

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Speaker 1: There's just so many it makes it so difficult to

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Speaker 1: talk about.

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Speaker 3: Well, was it the judge's job to jump up and

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Speaker 3: say this is irrelevant or was it Trump's lawyer's job

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Speaker 3: to jump up.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think they did jump up and say it's

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Speaker 5: irrelevant multiple times, and he overruled them, and then when

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Speaker 5: they objected, he overruled them, and then he accused them

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Speaker 5: of not objecting enough, where he has the power to

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Speaker 5: object himself. As a matter of fact, he actually did

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Speaker 5: impose one objection on his own to her testimony, so

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Speaker 5: we knew he had the ability to control it.

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Speaker 2: He just didn't.

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Speaker 4: We both have pretty strong opinions, but I really try

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Speaker 4: to avoid being the knee jerk, obvious conservative bomb chucker.

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Speaker 4: I try to only say things that I mean, and

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Speaker 4: then I'm fairly confident about it. Seems to me this

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Speaker 4: judge is weak and prejudiced. Is that too strong?

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Speaker 2: Probably not.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there's it's almost like he got his judicial

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Speaker 5: training from watching Law and Order, you know, where they

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Speaker 5: call everybody up to the bench and not allowing that

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Speaker 5: in or into chambers motion denied, instead of actually having

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Speaker 5: hearings and listening to witnesses and reviewing papers and making rulings.

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Speaker 5: It's it's unfathomable the way he's running his courtroom.

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Speaker 4: And if you were an attorney thinking we might lose

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Speaker 4: this one and will file an appeal, would you be

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Speaker 4: pretty optimistic about the appeals process.

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Speaker 5: I'd be very optimistic about the appeals process. Although it's

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Speaker 5: probably that closing the gate after the horse gets out

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Speaker 5: of the barn, because the damage will have been done

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Speaker 5: to the.

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Speaker 3: Candidate politically, and that's always we got to separate, you know,

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Speaker 3: what this does to him politically versus the legal situation.

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Speaker 3: I got to ask this, even though it's a bit

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Speaker 3: of a tangent. So you talking about the judge watching

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Speaker 3: too much Law and Order. Whenever we've had cop panels,

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Speaker 3: it's been pretty universal over the years that the good

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Speaker 3: cops say about a quarter of the cop I've worked

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Speaker 3: with shouldn't be cops. What percentage of judges do you

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Speaker 3: think shouldn't be judges?

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Speaker 5: Wow, that's I don't know if I'd go twenty five percent,

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Speaker 5: but there are people that I served with that every

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Speaker 5: now and then you'd want to go back and check

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Speaker 5: they make sure they had a bar card.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe ten percent of judges shouldn't be judges,

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Speaker 1: or would you.

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Speaker 2: Put I'd say ten to fifteen percent.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's enough.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. Probably some of them would say that about me too.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, maybe, yeah, fairship, maybe that's it. It's just

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Speaker 3: a disagreement of philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are.

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Speaker 5: Judge certain judges that don't just don't prepare. I had

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Speaker 5: one judge was amazed that I actually read cases. He said, Wow,

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Speaker 5: I quit doing that years ago. Wo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are judges who just don't care. Wow.

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Speaker 4: We're talking to retired Superior Court judge Larry Goodman, who

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Speaker 4: tried many, many, many many cases in the Bay Area.

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Speaker 4: Do you have a rough number how many cases you tried?

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Speaker 2: Over one hundred homicide cases? Good lord?

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Speaker 5: Wow, twelve death penalty cases and beyond that.

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Speaker 3: Those of my clerk's numbers. I keep getting tangent questions.

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Speaker 3: How often do cases turn out and you think, wow,

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Speaker 3: that is not the right decision verdict to me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, not very often.

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Speaker 1: Not very often. Usually you think it should Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time.

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Speaker 5: I had a couple of cases that came out totally

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Speaker 5: different than I thought they would come out.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time, it's pretty close.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So I actually have a jury related question. I've

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Speaker 4: been on a handful of juries. It's a fascinating experience.

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Speaker 4: I'm enthusiastic about serving on juries as opposed to a

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Speaker 4: lot of people, and I would suggest folks take a

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Speaker 4: minute to think about the sacred duty we have to

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Speaker 4: each other to render just verdicts before you try to

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Speaker 4: weasel out just because you don't want to do it. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: it was also a terrifying experience trying to reason with

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Speaker 4: some people who are not capable of reason. But this,

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Speaker 4: getting back to the stormy Daniel's testimony, how it was irrelevant, prejudicial,

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Speaker 4: half gross and have sexy. How do you think jurors

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Speaker 4: might react to that?

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Speaker 5: Boy, that's hard to tell, you know, jurors are an

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Speaker 5: unknown quantity. A lot of the times. A lot of

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Speaker 5: you think, well, they'll be shocked and they'll think to

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Speaker 5: Trump's the worst person in the world.

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Speaker 2: Other jurors might.

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Speaker 5: Go, Wow, this lady's really messed up, and whatever she

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Speaker 5: has to say, I'm not going to listen to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard to tell.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, just as a former juror.

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Speaker 4: If all of the testimony unwound the way it did,

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Speaker 4: and then she said, but I didn't do any of

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Speaker 4: this for the money. I'm sorry you're on I'm sorry,

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Speaker 4: I'd go faud.

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Speaker 2: Well, I understand.

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Speaker 5: A couple of jurors were seen shaking their head or

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Speaker 5: trying to cover their mouth because they were starting to

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Speaker 5: giggle when she was testifying about some of the things

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Speaker 5: she testified to. It's just hard to tell, you know.

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Speaker 5: You watch a jury and you set up there. That's

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Speaker 5: one of the things you do as a judges. You

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Speaker 5: watch their reactions and sometimes you think, boy, I understand

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Speaker 5: these people completely.

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Speaker 2: And they go and do something you had no idea

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Speaker 2: what they're going to do.

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Speaker 3: But so later in the day the judge did say,

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Speaker 3: we heard a bunch of stuff that you know wasn't necessary,

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Speaker 3: we didn't need to hear. But you feel like he

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Speaker 3: should have jumped in earlier, you know, when they got

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Speaker 3: into sexual positions and stuff like that, and said no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: come on now.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, at that point, he you know, calls him to

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Speaker 5: the bench and says knock it off, or he starts

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Speaker 5: interposing an objection of his own, and he keeps doing

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Speaker 5: it with more and more force. So he looks at

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Speaker 5: the jury and he starts shaking his head, going I

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Speaker 5: told you not to go there, and eventually the jury

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Speaker 5: starts going, wow, these people are disregarding what the judge

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Speaker 5: has to say, and then it starts working against them.

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Speaker 4: So the judge has already told us that he thinks

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Speaker 4: her testimony was irrelevant to the charges. So let's talk

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Speaker 4: just a little bit without fully explaining the charges because it.

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Speaker 1: Would take too long.

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Speaker 4: The idea that they misrepresented a filing which is a

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Speaker 4: misdemeanor to commit another crime, which is a misdemeanor that

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Speaker 4: the local DA doesn't act actually have jurisdiction over. But

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Speaker 4: that makes it a felony, and it all ends up

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Speaker 4: being election fraud because covering up an affair is fraud,

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Speaker 4: which is a ridiculous notion. I'm sorry, I'm leading.

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Speaker 1: The witness.

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Speaker 2: Would absolutely I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: What do you think of the underlying charges?

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't understand them?

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Speaker 1: Wow, you don't. Who does? Well?

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Speaker 5: I mean it's you're asking a state court to enforce

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Speaker 5: a federal election law and that they don't have the

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Speaker 5: jurisdiction to do it. One of the other problems I

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Speaker 5: have with his judge is he should have made the

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Speaker 5: prosecution lay out specifically before the trial starts. What is

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Speaker 5: your theory, what is the crime and how do you

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Speaker 5: think you're going to get there because we're now they're

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Speaker 5: playing hide the ball with the defense through most of this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because we're now fifteen days in and they still

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Speaker 3: haven't explained how they're going to do the math on that.

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Speaker 2: And make sure and made them do that the very

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Speaker 2: first day.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, right, Yeah, speaking of the appeals process, we should

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Speaker 3: flip this around to the other side to be fair.

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Speaker 3: How about Trump and the gag order and the fact

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Speaker 3: that he's violated.

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Speaker 1: How would you have handled that whole situation?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, the gag order is kind of interesting

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Speaker 5: because the jury knows all about all those gag orders

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Speaker 5: and all the contempts, because how could they avoid it?

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Speaker 5: So now in the jury, even though the jury's not

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Speaker 5: in the courtroom, when they're talking about the gag order

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Speaker 5: and forcing the gag order, imposing the gag order, the

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Speaker 5: jury goes home and turns on a TV.

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Speaker 2: What do they see?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting right now?

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Speaker 3: You assume as a judge that even though they're not

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Speaker 3: supposed to watch TV about the trial.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you think they do. Just assume they do.

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Speaker 5: Of course they do. In me, particularly on something this

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Speaker 5: high publicity. How are they going to avoid it? Unless

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Speaker 5: they don't turn on the television, don't turn on social media,

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Speaker 5: don't look at anything that's written down.

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Speaker 2: They're going to see it.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So the neighbor's going to say, hey, what do

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Speaker 5: you think about that before you can tell them to

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Speaker 5: be quiet.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, But would you have.

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Speaker 3: Punished Trump in the same way as often or more

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Speaker 3: or whatever.

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Speaker 5: I would never have imposed the gag order in the

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Speaker 5: first place. Gag orders are to protect the defense, and

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Speaker 5: it's over broad, it's vague.

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Speaker 2: You know. Trump's can be a pain in the you

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Speaker 2: know what.

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Speaker 5: So I suppose he felt like he had to do something,

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Speaker 5: but I don't know that this was the way to do.

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Speaker 2: It, you know.

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Speaker 4: I'm I heard a commentator say the other day that

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Speaker 4: he pointed out that the judge's daughter who Trump had

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Speaker 4: said some critical things of and it was portrayed in

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Speaker 4: the media, of course, that she's a pigtailed twelve year

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Speaker 4: old just trying to get through middle school, when she's

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Speaker 4: a full grown woman who is a high ranking campaign

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Speaker 4: person in Kamala Harris's office, specifically for the Biden Harris campaign.

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Speaker 4: And this person said, can't they find a judge in

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Speaker 4: New York who doesn't have a close family member who's

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Speaker 4: on the Biden campaign. And I thought, you know, that's

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Speaker 4: a pretty good point. Does that strike you as at

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Speaker 4: least an uncomfortable conflict of interest?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I mean the canon of say that you're supposed to

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Speaker 5: avoid all appearances of impropriety. Oh yeah, and this is

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Speaker 5: a pretty good appearance of impropriety. And when they tried

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Speaker 5: to recuse this judge, what the judge should have done

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Speaker 5: was file an affidavit and it should have gone to

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Speaker 5: a third judge or another judge to actually hold a

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Speaker 5: hearing on whether it was improper or not and then

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Speaker 5: rule on recusal motion.

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Speaker 3: So if I if I'd pulled off a jewel heist

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Speaker 3: and you're the judge or they are talking about you

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Speaker 3: for the judge, and that it turns out, you know,

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Speaker 3: your daughter does the news on our radio show, then

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Speaker 3: maybe you wouldn't be the right judge. Might not Yeah,

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Speaker 3: got it might not be Yeah, at least have to

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Speaker 3: hold a hearing. Wow, this case stinks as much as

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Speaker 3: I thought it did. Retired Supirity Court Judge Larry Goodman.

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Speaker 3: Larry really really enjoyed the conversation. I hope we can

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Speaker 3: do it again sometime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm available. Okay, cool, excellent, thank you, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much.

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Speaker 1: He's a retired judge, so he's available.

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Speaker 3: Armstrong