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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mob Never told you. From how stupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about nonprofit

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Speaker 1: work and philanthropy, partly because as we're recording, this tis

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Speaker 1: the season the holidays are upon us, holiday giving. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention that Caroline and I both have personal experience

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Speaker 1: in the nonprofit space and we're not making a joke

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Speaker 1: about podcasting. Yeah know. I actually had two back to

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Speaker 1: back nonprofit jobs before I came here, and both were

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Speaker 1: super women dominated. Um, we didn't have a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of dudes. And at both uh, the upper echelons were

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Speaker 1: also stocked with bunches of women, which, as we will

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Speaker 1: get into, not to spoil the whole show, but um

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Speaker 1: that that can be pretty rare for for bigger nonprofits

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Speaker 1: that are in charge of lots and lots of millions

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Speaker 1: and millions of dollars. So my nonprofit job was my

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Speaker 1: very first job out of college because in a quintessentially

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Speaker 1: millennial way, I decided that if I was going to

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Speaker 1: work forty hours a week, then it should be for

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Speaker 1: the betterment of humanity and everyone out there who works

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Speaker 1: in a nonprofit. Just laughed at you saying forty hours

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Speaker 1: a week, but continue right, uh? And I was fortunately

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Speaker 1: working with a terrific team of people, and um my

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Speaker 1: boss really took me under his wing and was such

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Speaker 1: a kind mentor. And oh man, I could tell you

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Speaker 1: so many stories about him. He's just fabulous and if

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Speaker 1: he's listening, hello, magnus. But I was quickly introduced to

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Speaker 1: all of the stereotypical things that come along with a

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Speaker 1: nonprofit world, Like you said, working forty plus hours a week,

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Speaker 1: particularly around annual giving time, around our annual gala um,

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Speaker 1: and also making very little money at it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: granted I was freshly out of college, but compared to

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Speaker 1: starting salaries at for profit jobs, it was it was

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Speaker 1: tough to live on in Atlanta. Well, and we put

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Speaker 1: out a call on Facebook not too long ago for

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Speaker 1: ideas of topics to cover, and we heard from listeners

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Speaker 1: who really wanted us to cover this topic, specifically what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about when it comes to money and the

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Speaker 1: expectation that because you are young, uh, and you are

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Speaker 1: passionate about a cause, that you will be okay with

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Speaker 1: making less money, working crazy hours because of your love

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Speaker 1: for the phil in the blank, whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: your your nonprofit is supporting. And a lot of our

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Speaker 1: our listeners who sent in request were saying like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we love what we do, but I mean we have

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Speaker 1: to live as well. It's a recipe for burnout a

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Speaker 1: lot of times. Totally. I am curious to know whether

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Speaker 1: you and your your back to back nonprofit jobs, whether

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Speaker 1: you were intending to join a nonprofit, whether you were

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Speaker 1: specifically seeking one out, or if it's just sort of

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Speaker 1: what fell in your lap, because there's some terrific nonprofits

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Speaker 1: around here. Yeah. I actually, um, the first nonprofit I

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Speaker 1: wound up at was a total accident. Um. But when

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Speaker 1: I had worked at the newspaper, frequently I would tell

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Speaker 1: one of my managers that, like, I've got to get

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Speaker 1: out of here. I mean, for so many reasons, but

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Speaker 1: I've got to get out of here. I want work

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Speaker 1: that has meaning to it. Because again, it's not like

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Speaker 1: I was a reporter saving the world, right. I was

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Speaker 1: a copy editor. I was behind the scenes and that's

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Speaker 1: where it was comfortable. But I really wasn't helping anyone

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Speaker 1: other than to correct grammar, which is really important, you guys.

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Speaker 1: But it's important. It's not the same thing as working

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Speaker 1: directly with people, helping people, raising money whatever, whatever the

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Speaker 1: case maybe um, and so I knew that just like you,

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Speaker 1: quintessential millennial who like wants to be involved, wants to help,

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Speaker 1: has stars in our eyes. UM, I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: to get involved with some type of nonprofit. But I

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Speaker 1: also was in the thick of the recession when I

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Speaker 1: was at the newspaper. And as we'll touch on a

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Speaker 1: little bit later, that's how a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: our generation have wound up in nonprofits, especially right out

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Speaker 1: of college, because there were obviously during the recession, so

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Speaker 1: many layoffs, so many companies shrank, and what you would

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Speaker 1: see around that time about you know, not quite ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, was a lot of young people taking the

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Speaker 1: jobs they could get, and a lot of those ended

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Speaker 1: up being at nonprofits. So you had back to back ones. Though,

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Speaker 1: did you ever feel in your time, especially because we

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Speaker 1: don't have to name them, um, but they were very

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Speaker 1: different experiences and very different types of places with either

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Speaker 1: of them, did you feel like you were making did

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Speaker 1: you feel like there was take home value on top

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Speaker 1: of your paycheck of the good feeling supporting the cause

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Speaker 1: that your nonprofit was all about not really no. UM. Well,

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Speaker 1: the first nonprofit was not the kind where you are

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Speaker 1: necessarily helping anyone, like a social enterprise. It was, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was not going out and directly helping people. UM.

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Speaker 1: The second nonprofit I worked at was a massive, massive,

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Speaker 1: massive company and it did not feel like a nonprofit,

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Speaker 1: you know. UM. In this political season, you hear people

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Speaker 1: referred to as Rhinos Republicans the name only, and I

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Speaker 1: often felt that I worked at an in Pino nonprofit

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Speaker 1: name only because all of the higher ups did drive

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Speaker 1: the BMWs and the Mercedes is is is and UM

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Speaker 1: had all of the designer clothes and bags. And I

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Speaker 1: would never begrudge anyone that kind of stuff if if

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Speaker 1: they can afford it, and that's what they choose to do.

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Speaker 1: But the only time I truly felt that I connected

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Speaker 1: with the people that we were working for was when

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Speaker 1: I actually did interviews and wrote articles about the families

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Speaker 1: and the children. UM. And then that was rewarding because

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Speaker 1: you'd end up speaking with someone on the phone for

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Speaker 1: two hours and crying with them because their child survived cancer,

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Speaker 1: you know, so a little bit of a different situation.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the larger as we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about the larger of a nonprofit budget that you get,

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Speaker 1: the wider of a gap that you see between the

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Speaker 1: entry level coordinators, say UM, who are freshly out of

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Speaker 1: college like I was, and your CEO who is winding

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Speaker 1: and dining with wealthy people, partly because that's the way

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Speaker 1: that you drum up money. UM, but there are also,

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Speaker 1: you know, questionable issues around that, especially when you look

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Speaker 1: at the gender breakdown of the nonprofit sector and it

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Speaker 1: is so heavily female dominated up until you get to

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Speaker 1: the upper management where you do start making more money.

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Speaker 1: And UM, I even even as someone who had not

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Speaker 1: much but some experience in the nonprofit world, to kind

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Speaker 1: of take all of our research in and contextualize that

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Speaker 1: gender dynamic within all these issues of burnout and low

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Speaker 1: pay and working however many hours a week that you

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Speaker 1: have to UM and essentially being taken for granted sometimes

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Speaker 1: and it being considered women's work because the charity UH

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Speaker 1: is really just sturbing, honestly. And before we get into

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Speaker 1: the darker issues of the nonprofit world, why don't we

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Speaker 1: start out with a little bit of history. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: without going all the way back to the seventeenth century,

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Speaker 1: because trust me, I could invite me to a party,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you all about it. UM. But let's start

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Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, which is a very good place

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Speaker 1: to start, because that's when you see the progressive air right.

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Speaker 1: You start to see more and more people concerned with

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Speaker 1: social issues, health and education issues, and you've got an

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Speaker 1: explosion in these things called voluntary associations. And that's everything

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Speaker 1: from the Freemasons to UH types of organizations that we've

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Speaker 1: talked about on the podcast before called women's clubs. Basically,

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Speaker 1: UH these were everything from social organizations to get together

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Speaker 1: to help people, um, get into politics, to having marginalized

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Speaker 1: groups get together to help one another. And if you

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Speaker 1: think about all of these forces that are happening in

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Speaker 1: the United States around this time, with as you say,

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Speaker 1: you have an influx of immigration, industrialization, urbanization, the expansion

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Speaker 1: of education UM, and also just moral reform UM. You

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Speaker 1: might have groups like the Daughters of Temperance who were

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Speaker 1: focused on drunkenness, public drunkenness UM. And then of course

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Speaker 1: around the Prohibition era, you would have a lot of

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Speaker 1: women involved in that UM. With suffrage, you have the

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Speaker 1: rise of groups like the League of Women Voters and

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Speaker 1: then when it comes to education, you see women getting

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Speaker 1: together and forming clubs that ran daycares and across the board.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the focus of women's nonprofit and

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Speaker 1: charitable work, it tends to focus on education, child care,

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Speaker 1: and women's issues, which may sense I mean, because they

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Speaker 1: are we're focusing on usually the underserved. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: mean the percolation of all of these nonprofit organizations and

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Speaker 1: voluntary associations that that started happening in the progressive era

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Speaker 1: really would end up informing um nonprofit and activist work

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Speaker 1: that we would see in the nineteen sixties, fifties, sixties,

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Speaker 1: and even today because you would see the establishment of

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Speaker 1: civil rights nonprofits like the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in

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Speaker 1: double a CP, Congress of Racially Quality Student Non Violent

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Speaker 1: Coordinating Committee UM and their activism and advocating directly contributed

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Speaker 1: to the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. You

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Speaker 1: also see groups like Now and Narrow launch disability rights

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Speaker 1: groups like the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill and

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Speaker 1: United Cerebral Palsy. All of these groups, a lot of

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Speaker 1: which still exist, and they're following in the footsteps of

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Speaker 1: these people who were coming together starting in the mid

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Speaker 1: to late nineteenth century. UM. And you know, Kristen mentioned

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Speaker 1: the issue of immigration also in the context of the time,

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Speaker 1: you have to think about the fact that we had

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Speaker 1: in this country a lot of Roman, Catholic, German and

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Speaker 1: Irish immigrants who brought their traditions of voluntary action and

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Speaker 1: charitable groups to this country, and they, UH, in their

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods would launch what one source referred to as a

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Speaker 1: benevolent empire of schools, orphanages, temperance societies, and social welfare

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Speaker 1: groups to help their communities and help look out for

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Speaker 1: each other. Although, of course, like that's not just a

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Speaker 1: European import if you look at Native American groups and

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Speaker 1: cultures around the world. I think that's a natural human

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Speaker 1: impulse a lot of times for us to get together

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Speaker 1: and help out where perhaps more traditional institutions or government

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Speaker 1: leave off exactly exactly, um, which is why you see

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Speaker 1: among marginalized communities, among immigrant communities, and among women, uh,

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Speaker 1: what one source referred to as parallel power structures. You know,

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Speaker 1: the a lot of these people were shut out of

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Speaker 1: the traditional you know, white male power structures of the day.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the for profit companies or just being

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Speaker 1: able to work at all, and so you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of these sort of parallel employment and activism tracks

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Speaker 1: running alongside the main economy. Yeah, and it's it's interesting

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Speaker 1: to see how women use this kind of work to

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Speaker 1: sidestep a lot of those even just legalities like uh,

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Speaker 1: married women not being allowed to own any property or

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Speaker 1: any money so um, before that became illegal. Um. You

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Speaker 1: see wealthier women in particular being really drawn to forming

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Speaker 1: charitable organizations because they could actually control the money in

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Speaker 1: those situations, or kind of on the flip side of that,

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Speaker 1: a lot of even earlier charitable work by women centers

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Speaker 1: around religious groups and nunneries because again that's the only

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Speaker 1: way that they can have more more independence and say

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Speaker 1: is by essentially like getting away from dudes, except for

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Speaker 1: like god, dude, thank god the bicycle was invented right

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Speaker 1: right right away, from those dudes to your nonprofit work,

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Speaker 1: to your convent. But you also see during this time too,

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Speaker 1: it's not just that more groups are emerging, it's that

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Speaker 1: the existing groups and the new nonprofits start becoming more organized.

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Speaker 1: They develop uh national level organizations with state and local chapters.

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Speaker 1: You know, you especially see the speaking of churches, you

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Speaker 1: really see this with different Christian denominations. Um. And someone

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Speaker 1: who really really changed the non profit game, not surprisingly

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties was super professionally wealthy dude Andrew Carnegie.

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Speaker 1: And um, he flipped the script right. So he criticized

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Speaker 1: traditional charity, saying that it only responded to suffering rather

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Speaker 1: than addressing the causes of poverty. And I'm like, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's a great attitude. We should be helping people and

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Speaker 1: meeting them where they are. Oh, but he felt that

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Speaker 1: it was because a lot of charitable giving only work

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Speaker 1: to encourage the slothful, the drunken, and the unworthy. So

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Speaker 1: that sounds a lot like our podcast a while back

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Speaker 1: on welfare and those progressive era concepts of bootstrapping and

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Speaker 1: moralizing poverty the deserving port right exactly. And and I

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Speaker 1: bring up Carnegie not because we want to dedicate a

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Speaker 1: whole podcast to him, um, but more because it is

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Speaker 1: important to note that in the history of voluntary association's

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Speaker 1: charity and nonprofit, it took very very very wealthy men

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Speaker 1: like Carnegie, men who were making their millions off of

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Speaker 1: banking and railroads and things like that. Mining. Um, these

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Speaker 1: new booming industries in our country, the new giant billionaire

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Speaker 1: millionaire type people. It took them to sort of change

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Speaker 1: how nonprofits worked. And so it took a Carnegie or

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Speaker 1: a Rockefeller to launch these foundations. And of course the

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Speaker 1: foundations were meant to help people. They were meant to

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Speaker 1: direct funds to the deserving poor or what have you,

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Speaker 1: arts organizations, education. Um. They were also a good way

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Speaker 1: to protect yourself from taxation, which would definitely come into

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Speaker 1: stark relief about thirty years after Carnegie started his foundation.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's all these big men, these railroad guys,

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Speaker 1: these oil guys who were launching these early foundations. But

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Speaker 1: there are some really incredible early lady foundation starters. Many

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Speaker 1: of them have some problematic sides to them. They were

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Speaker 1: for sure products of their progressive era existence. Um. But

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Speaker 1: one that jumped out to me because she was literally

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Speaker 1: named alongside John D. Rockefeller, was Margaret Olivia Slocum Sage,

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Speaker 1: and she started a foundation to address social welfare issues. Now,

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Speaker 1: stage is super impressive, right. So, in addition to being

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Speaker 1: incredibly wealthy, she grew up in a very conservative family

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Speaker 1: and attended the Troy Female Seminary Because why wouldn't our

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Speaker 1: wealthy child from our wealthy family be educated. But the

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Speaker 1: side effect of going to the Troy Female Seminary was

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Speaker 1: that she was like, oh, women should have rights, because

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Speaker 1: that tends to happen when you educate your ladies. And

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Speaker 1: the Troy Email Seminary actually quietly advocated financial independence for

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Speaker 1: women through education. And so Margaret gets all of these

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Speaker 1: kookie ideas to try to do whatever she can to

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Speaker 1: reform women's role in society. And so she starts out

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Speaker 1: as a teacher once she graduates, which is of course

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Speaker 1: one of the only opportunities open to women to participate

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Speaker 1: in the mainstream economy. And in the meantime she's frequently volunteering.

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Speaker 1: She's like, so rich and has all of these doors

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Speaker 1: open to her in life, and she's left and right

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Speaker 1: turning down marriage proposal. She just wants to volunteer. And

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Speaker 1: she finally marries though this railroad baron Russell's sage at

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Speaker 1: the age of forty one. She's forty one or he's

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Speaker 1: forty one. She's forty one. Oh man, she's practically dead

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Speaker 1: according to uh women's age at that time. Practically yeah.

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Speaker 1: But here's the interesting thing about her, right, so, um,

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Speaker 1: she's married to Russell for forty years. He kicks the bucket,

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Speaker 1: leaving her the single largest taxpayer in the entire country

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Speaker 1: because she has so much freaking money. She has a

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Speaker 1: quote from after her husband died, and that is, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I can finally live. So it like eighty

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Speaker 1: years old, Marge launches the Russell Sage Foundation, uh, with

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of like a billion dollars today and it's

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Speaker 1: still active. Oh yeah, I remember the Russell Stage Foundation

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Speaker 1: from the nonprofit I worked for. Yeah, now, Stage, you

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Speaker 1: know I've said problematic a couple of times now. She

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Speaker 1: did advocate things that reminded me a lot of peace

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Speaker 1: laugh Philish Laughley conservative traditional femininity, even though she did

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Speaker 1: work outside the home um and was big on the

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Speaker 1: idea of women earning their way. Um. She also advocated

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Speaker 1: stripping lands from Native Americans to give to the whites.

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Speaker 1: So she was not without her face. Lins Well, hopefully

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Speaker 1: the Russell Stage Foundation continues to make up for her racism.

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Speaker 1: Let's just call it that, one would hope. Um. We

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Speaker 1: also have to shout out though a few other women

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Speaker 1: who use their money for good and this I mean

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Speaker 1: you've got to remember too that like this is such

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Speaker 1: a new thing of women being able to kind of

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Speaker 1: throw their philanthropic weight around. And in the mid nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: if we head over to Hawaii, Yes, Hawaii, Hello Hawaiian listeners.

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Speaker 1: I know you're out there, and I love your state,

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Speaker 1: as I say anytime we get to talk about Hawaii. So,

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Speaker 1: Bernice Howie Bishop was a Hawaiian noblewoman and philanthropist, and

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Speaker 1: she endowed schools that still exists. So I'm curious to

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Speaker 1: know if any Hawaiian listeners have heard of her. Um.

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Speaker 1: She was the leader in charitable organizations like the Stranger's

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Speaker 1: Friends Society, which helped sick travelers, which I could have

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Speaker 1: used when I was stuck a boat in China with

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Speaker 1: a horrible food poison a couple of years ago. And

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Speaker 1: she headed up the Women's Sewing Society, which provided clothes

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Speaker 1: for the poor. And there were a lot of similar

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Speaker 1: societies where women would get together and use their needlework

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Speaker 1: and handicrafts to make blankets or clothes or even during

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Speaker 1: the Civil War making bandages for people. So women, you know,

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Speaker 1: using the tools that they had, which a lot of

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Speaker 1: times were their hands, to make the world a better place. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then as now, it was so important to have

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Speaker 1: a great partner, right, And so when Bishop died of

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Speaker 1: breast cancer in the late eighteen eighties, her husband, who

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Speaker 1: was super rich, started the first bank in Hawaii, which

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Speaker 1: is still like the biggest bank in Hawaii. And I

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Speaker 1: hope that's what it's called, just the biggest bank in Hawaii.

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Speaker 1: Biggest bank in Hawaii. Um, it's so big. Uh. He

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Speaker 1: continued all of her philant therapy. He knew how important

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Speaker 1: helping children, educating children, providing for those less fortunate was,

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Speaker 1: and so he continued to help her educational foundation thrive,

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Speaker 1: which I just love it. Well, you also got to

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Speaker 1: love old Katherine Drexel. I mean, this woman was a

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Speaker 1: real powerhouse, both financially and also in the work that

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Speaker 1: she did. So she was around in the late nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: and in case you were wondering, she was a Drexel

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Speaker 1: of the Philadelphia Directels. Very important. So, like we mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: one way that women found independence, ironically enough, was through

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Speaker 1: becoming a nun. And so Catherine becomes a nun and

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Speaker 1: then she establishes missions in the South and West United

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Speaker 1: States to educate and provide for African Americans and Native Americans.

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Speaker 1: She also establishes orphanages schools and vowed not to quote

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Speaker 1: undertake any work which would leave to the neglect or

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Speaker 1: abandonment of those groups. So it sounds like Drexel less

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Speaker 1: problematic than Sage. I think, yes, I think she is

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Speaker 1: generally less problematic than than a Margaret's Sage. And um, Basically,

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Speaker 1: her story is so fascinating because everybody in her life

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Speaker 1: was like, Katie, Katie, you're too rich, you're too beautiful.

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Speaker 1: You can't become a nun. You can't hide yourself away

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Speaker 1: like that. You've got to stay out in society. But

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Speaker 1: when she was younger and was able to travel because

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Speaker 1: her family was so disgustingly rich, the girl could travel

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Speaker 1: and she went out West and she saw what essentially

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Speaker 1: white people had done two American Indians, saw the poverty,

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Speaker 1: the alcoholism. She saw what was happening to African Americans

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Speaker 1: who were not provided for if they had either escaped

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Speaker 1: slavery or had been freed and had no basically communities

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Speaker 1: of support. And so she was basedly like I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: grow up and I'm going to help people however I can.

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Speaker 1: And she went to Rome. She got an audience with

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Speaker 1: the Pope and she's like, I need you to send

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Speaker 1: missionaries to America to help these neglected people. And the

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Speaker 1: Pope was like, UM, hold up a mirror, you are it.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, well, I guess I should

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Speaker 1: become a nun. And so she actually ends up post

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Speaker 1: becoming a nun. She gets a grant from Drexel University

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Speaker 1: because that's her uncle's school that he established, and with

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Speaker 1: the money, she and her fellow sisters founded Xavier University

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Speaker 1: in New Orleans, which is the only historically black Catholic

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Speaker 1: college in the US. And she was an outspoken advocate

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Speaker 1: both vocally and with money UH for aid to reservation

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Speaker 1: schools and anti lynching efforts. And in the year two

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Speaker 1: thousand she became a saint. That's our second saint. On

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Speaker 1: the podcast, We've got St. Catherine Drexel and Saint poly Murray.

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Speaker 1: UH also shout out to New Orleans, Love your city.

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Speaker 1: Just this is just a geographical shoutout episode for me. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've always always wondered though about Xavier because I have

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Speaker 1: friends who went to Loyola and l SC, which I

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Speaker 1: knew was not in New Orleans but ban Rouge. But

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Speaker 1: nonetheless they're all right there, um, And I had no

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Speaker 1: idea about this history of Xavier because driving into the

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Speaker 1: city you always passed this like giant sign for it.

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Speaker 1: And now I want to go visit the campus. Um.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time, though, we have Mary Elizabeth Garrett,

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Speaker 1: and her story reminds me of monopoly because she was

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Speaker 1: the daughter of the B and O Railroad president. UM

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Speaker 1: and since she was born with vagina, she couldn't exactly

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Speaker 1: take over the family business, but with a massive inheritance,

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Speaker 1: she did me manage to establish a philanthropic group of

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Speaker 1: super rich ladies called the Friday Evening. Dude, Dude, I

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Speaker 1: totally want to start a band that's called like Caroline

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Speaker 1: in the Friday Evening because it just sounds cool that

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Speaker 1: around this time you've got all of these like smoky

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Speaker 1: dark men's clubs right where all of the boys are

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Speaker 1: getting together and helping each other succeed in the world. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's an old girls club, an old rich girls club. Well,

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Speaker 1: and think about our episode on uh International Women's Day

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Speaker 1: and the labor reform movement and how women well healed,

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Speaker 1: women like a Mary Elizabeth Garrett and her Friday Evening

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Speaker 1: friends would go out in their foes and fancy cars

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Speaker 1: and things, and would sort of buffer serve as a

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Speaker 1: barricade for all these um working class people who would

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Speaker 1: be striking for union rights and you know, doing what

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Speaker 1: they could because the police, of course, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to come after and arrest a Mary Elizabeth Garrett. UM.

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Speaker 1: So it is cool to see how women at this

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Speaker 1: time were Yes, they were born into massive wealth, but

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Speaker 1: you do have some of them who were using it

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Speaker 1: not just to buy fancy new dresses. Well, and what's

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Speaker 1: so wonderful? You know we mentioned that women and generally,

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Speaker 1: you know, communities who were marginalized had to create these

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Speaker 1: parallel or alternative power structures. And the thing that comes

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Speaker 1: with money is that you can get people to do

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Speaker 1: what you want. And if you have a progressive outlook,

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Speaker 1: frequently that can mean paying people to be inclusive. It

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Speaker 1: becomes in their best financial interest to no longer be jerks.

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Speaker 1: And so Garrett provided hundreds of thousands of dollars to

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Speaker 1: John's Hopkins University to help establish its medical school on

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Speaker 1: the condition that they admit women. Yes, that is the

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Speaker 1: way you use your influence. And there was a quote

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Speaker 1: from one of the higher ups at the medical school

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Speaker 1: from the time, and he said something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of I so enjoyed being bought. Uh, basically it worked

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Speaker 1: out for everyone. You get to have a prestigious medical

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Speaker 1: school and women get to be educated to be doctors. Now,

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Speaker 1: someone who was not born into wealth but who worked

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Speaker 1: her way up was Sarah Breedlove, better known as Madam C. J. Walker,

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Speaker 1: who in nineteen sixteen launched the Madam C. J. Walker

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Speaker 1: Benevolent Association. And in case you weren't familiar with Madam c. J. Walker,

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Speaker 1: she built a hair care empire um focusing on African

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Speaker 1: American women's hair, and in the process she became America's

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Speaker 1: first self made female million there um. But she also

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Speaker 1: knew that giving back and reinvesting in communities was good business,

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Speaker 1: so she was kind of setting up what would be

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Speaker 1: the predecessor to like corporate responsibility departments now at bigger

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Speaker 1: businesses and corporations. Yeah, she knew that she could help people,

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Speaker 1: and she felt that she had a responsibility to do so.

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Speaker 1: But she was not She was a smart cookie. Oh yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: and also knowing to the importance of investing in black

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Speaker 1: communities in particular, so with her Benevolent association. She trained

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Speaker 1: and employed women in the US, Caribbean and Central America

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Speaker 1: and just across the board. She was a huge philanthropist

429
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: and advocate for African Americans. And I mean it wasn't

430
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: only you know, uh, the importance of just investing in

431
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: communities in the return that you would get on that from,

432
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: you know, the the uplift, the general uplift, but also

433
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: some good pr you know, like she was. You would

434
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: imagine that someone who reinvented herself as a Madam C. J.

435
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Walker neew the power of pr And at this point

436
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: we have to take a leap in time to look

437
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: at our modern nonprofit landscape, which we're gonna do when

438
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break. So the

439
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: nonprofit world is really a product of our post World

440
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: War two society. More than ninety per cent of nonprofits

441
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: today have been created since the nineteen fifties, and really

442
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: the nonprofit sector that we're familiar with and kind of

443
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: how it runs more as a business dates only too

444
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, along with the rise of NGOs or

445
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: non governmental organizations, and it is the fastest growing type

446
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: of organization in the world. How about that? Well, so

447
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: you know I mentioned earlier with Andrew Carnegie and foundations,

448
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: I said something along the lines of it's a good

449
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: way to avoid taxes. Well, the origins of that, and

450
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: I'll go through this kind of quickly so we can

451
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: get to the good gender stuff. Uh that that could

452
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: be the alternate name of our podcast, by the way,

453
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: good gender stuff or a bad gender stuff depending. So,

454
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: in the wake of the Great Depression and leading up

455
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: to World War Two, you've got FDR who's super steeply

456
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: progressive income and estate taxes prompted the very very wealthy

457
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: in this country to find ways to avoid taxation through

458
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: large scale charitable giving. I mean, you see foundations like Carnegiees,

459
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: but also like the Ford Foundation exploding, and and I

460
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: do not mean to say that our charitable foundations in

461
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: this country are in this world, are awful and have

462
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: terrible motives and things like that. Obviously, groups like the

463
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: Ford Foundation do incredible work. I'm simply giving you a

464
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of an explainer as to why we

465
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: saw leading up to World War two sort of this explosion.

466
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: And post World War two you've got the massive growth

467
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: of government public sector subsidies of charitable giving, um, all

468
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: of these things are stimulating the growth of nonprofit enterprises

469
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: even more, and so by the seventies, a massive chunk

470
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: of nonprofit revenue was direct from the government, thanks to

471
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: grants and contracts and vouchers like the g I Bill.

472
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: So basically the impact of all of this is that

473
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: again you see a massive rise in nonprofit organizations because

474
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: essentially they're doing a lot of the work on the

475
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: ground that the government can or won't. They're almost like

476
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: contracting it out to a lot of these nonprofits to

477
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: handle a bunch of tasks. So in nineteen eighty Reagan

478
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: comes in in his president and he's like, whoa this.

479
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: The government is way too big. There's way too much spending,

480
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: and the line between public and private is way too blurry.

481
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: But you've got to keep in mind that nonprofits were

482
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: dependent on all this government money. So all of a

483
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: sudden you have these organizations becoming less responsive to community

484
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: and client needs because they have a lot of their

485
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: funding dry up from the government, and so they have

486
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: to become more business like and they have to bring

487
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: on more professional nonprofit managers to basically manage this newly

488
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: complicated funding environment. Oh gosh, and whenever we hear that

489
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: word professionalize, it usually means men in suits taking the

490
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: highest paying jobs. Yeah, that I mean, I think that

491
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: that's like an excellent point to lead us right off

492
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: the diving board and into the gender pool. Let's go,

493
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: let's cannon bolve right in, belly flop right right on

494
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: into this gender pool. So it should come as no

495
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: surprise to our fair listeners that women make up a

496
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: bulk of the nonprofit workforce. But did you know, I

497
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: didn't realize it was this high. That on average, women,

498
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: according to study, makeup on average sent of the nonprofit workforce.

499
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: And when you break break down those rank and file numbers,

500
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. I didn't really expect this. But the

501
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: bigger the organization is and the more money it controls,

502
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: the fewer women percentage wise are in the organization. So

503
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: at smaller nonprofits, women are eighty two percent of the workforce.

504
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: At mid size groups there about seventy four. But when

505
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: you hit the big um nonprofits, the ones that control

506
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 1: like twenty five million plus, women make up just fifty

507
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: nine percent of the workforce. Still not a minority, but

508
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: still a lot less than those smaller nonprofit organizations. I

509
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: am so not surprised because it follows this general pattern

510
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: of money where smaller nonprofits basically that's not even Yeah,

511
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: I still have a smaller headcount, but we're really talking

512
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: about your budget. So at the teeny tiny nonprofits you

513
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: were not making often you might not even be making

514
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: a living wage, Whereas if you are working in a

515
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: massive nonprofit, it's possible to make decent money. And so

516
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: I would imagine that that entices more men into the ranks.

517
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: Not to say that, um, guys are only out for

518
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, the money and not for the causes, but

519
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean it just fits in with this broader pattern

520
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: that we see in the nonprofit sector and other sectors

521
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: like teaching. Well, you know, when you talk about the

522
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: higher ranks and people rising to the top, uh, fifty

523
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: seven per scent of women who are in the nonprofit

524
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 1: world do aspire to reach that CEO level. Um. And interestingly,

525
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: when you zero in on the eighteen to thirty four group,

526
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: that number jumps all the way up to seventy two.

527
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: Because we still have stars in our eyes and haven't

528
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: realized that it's just an old contact. Yeah, oh my god,

529
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: how did I double up my contacts? No? Wonder everything

530
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: looks like a hologram. Um. Yeah, that's exactly it, because

531
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: you stereotypically or or statistically perhaps have not reached that

532
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: burnout level yet. Um. And so when you dive into

533
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: why women want to be CEOs, particularly in the nonprofit world, uh, frankly,

534
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean, one thing that should be so painfully obvious

535
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: is like, hello, they have role models and mentors. Just

536
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: by virtue of the fact that the industry as a

537
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: whole is so female dominated. You can easily see in

538
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: a lot of these nonprofits women who are running them

539
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: or at the top, or are managing things and in

540
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: control of stuff. Do you like how vague I'm being, Um,

541
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,959
Speaker 1: But basically you have foot footsteps to walk in. Absolutely,

542
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: And you also have this perception of work life balance

543
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: because you know, we millennials, we love our flex time

544
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: and paid holidays. I was surprised though, to see that

545
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: nonprofits tend to offer longer vacation packages. That was was

546
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 1: not my experience, but um, it was not mine either.

547
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: People in the nonprofit world. Maybe there there, maybe, maybe

548
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: there are sectors within the nonprofit world because it is massive, obviously,

549
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: um that that might be the case. I would imagine though,

550
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: if you're in a midsized down to more of a

551
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: grassroots organization, there's very little time to take off vio.

552
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: I imagine you're wearing more hats right literally if you're

553
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: working in a hat and profit right, but both literally

554
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: and figuratively UM and of course a lot of those

555
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: perks though do frequently come at the expense of um

556
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: making a lower salary. But what an interesting side note

557
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: I came across is that, according to research, women in

558
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: the nonprofit realm who are over fifty five are way

559
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: more comfortable asking for raises compared with younger women. Not surprising,

560
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: but just an interesting side note that with experience and

561
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: burnout comes, basically the cajone is to be like, no,

562
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: you're you're going to pay me more money now? Well,

563
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: and it it might also be that there, uh, their

564
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: starry eyed dreams have worn off a bit because um

565
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: it is another millennial value, as I experience, to be

566
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: attracted to the nonprofit sector because you want to work

567
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: for a cause that you are passionate about. And thankfully

568
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: we are seeing universities developing degree lands for nonprofit management

569
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: and social entrepreneurship to outline more of a direct path.

570
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: But the problem is if you are starting out, or

571
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: even just not starting out, if you were still in

572
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: like an entry level position, because I know women that

573
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: I worked alongside at my nonprofity were there for years

574
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: and still making next to nothing. Um, you you get

575
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: into a cycle that is completely dependent on obviously donations

576
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: and foundations and very relevant to our recent recession, government funding.

577
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: And so during that time when a lot of budgets,

578
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: especially government funding, just dried up, you get locked in

579
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: the cycle of having no budget. But it's not like

580
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: the mission goes away and you have to in order

581
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: to apply for grants and to grow your nonprofit and

582
00:38:53,520 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: expand your mission. Those grantees and philanthropic organization and foundations

583
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: want to see the evidence of your work in action.

584
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: But if you don't have the money to do it,

585
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: then how are you going to do it? And so

586
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: what you do is you have employees who are doing

587
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: a lot for not a little, and you can get

588
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: away with that, so to speak, the most with younger employees,

589
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: right because it's the whole attitude that is especially prevalent

590
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: in the nonprofit world of paying your dues. You're young,

591
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: you're you are starry eyed, and we're going to take

592
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 1: advantage of you until we suck the soul out of

593
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: your body. There's just the expectation and nonprofit people, I

594
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: want to hear from you, if it's worse than some

595
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: areas better than others, if you've experienced this expectation, that

596
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: you will give a hundred and fifty percent until you

597
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: are just sucked dry and we'll step down now. I do,

598
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: I do want to say that it's it's not all terrible.

599
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: This is also reminding me of a little reunion that

600
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: I had with my old nonprofit UM managers and co

601
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: workers last year, and I was so thrilled to see

602
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: one of my I guess she was more she was

603
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: more of a manager when I was working with her,

604
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: and she's now working at a very household brand nonprofit

605
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: that all of you listening have heard of, and she

606
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: loves it. She loves her job so much, and part

607
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: of it is just what she's doing in donor relations

608
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: really fits her personality. But also, I mean, this woman

609
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: is just an embodiment of integrity and she has been

610
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: blown away by how well such a large organization is run,

611
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: so it can be done in the right way. But

612
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: also too, I mean, I wonder and nonprofit people again,

613
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: you know, we totally want to hear from you, because

614
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: I wonder if it is harder if you are a

615
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: mid sized to smaller organization, because someone who is like

616
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 1: an A list nonprofit, they're going to just have bigger budgets.

617
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna wonder if there's more more room for

618
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: more salaries and perks, right and you and I read

619
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: an Atlantic article that discussed the Department of Labor updating

620
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: it's overtime rules UM and basically it doubled the threshold

621
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: for guaranteed overtime pay from twenty three thousand to just

622
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: over forty seven thousand dollars. And while there was a

623
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: lot of pushback from companies in general in our economy UM,

624
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: the article outlined how some of the largest protests came

625
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: from the nonprofit sector because they basically were like, what

626
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: you're doing in making us pay our employees more and

627
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: cover their overtime is you're taking money out of the

628
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: coffers to go support the cause. But there were plenty

629
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: of other nonprofits who stepped up to sign a letter

630
00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: essentially saying, sure, but it is high time that we

631
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: valued our employees, the people who are out there doing

632
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: the work helping people. It's time that we show that

633
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: we do value them as well. Right, because what you're

634
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: talking about right there are your lowest paid workers. So

635
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: what the subtext of protesting that is saying like, hey,

636
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: we we need our lowest paid workers unpaid work. And

637
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: it's like, well, where is the line? You know? So

638
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: no wonder you tend to have high turnover in a

639
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: nonprofit sector and incredibly high rates of burnout, which also

640
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: um our episode with Emily Aries talking about bossed up

641
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: and burnout would probably be a good follow up to

642
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: to this one. And it makes sense that the women

643
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: who don't aspire to the CEO positions then most of

644
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 1: them blame it on the time commitment required and the

645
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: stress involved in leading a nonprofit. Not everybody wants to

646
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: take that on and I totally get it. But when

647
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: it comes to leadership, the CEO level stuff, the executive

648
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 1: director level stuff, um men are the ones who tend

649
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: to be at the tippity top of the very top.

650
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: And we see this in education, we see it in

651
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: library sciences, we see it in social work, which we

652
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: are doing an episode on next. Men make up seventy

653
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: nine percent of CEOs at large organizations with budgets over

654
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars sevent and compare that seventy nine

655
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: percent to the fact that women make up fifty nine

656
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: percent of the total workforce at those larger nonprofits. And

657
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: it's not just a salary issue. A poll found that

658
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: female nonprofit workers UH sense a gender bias. Yeah, forty

659
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: percent of women nonprofit workers think that their organization's favor

660
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: men over equally qualified women for those chief leadership positions.

661
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: And at those big twenty five million dollar plus UH

662
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations, of women said that their organizations didn't put

663
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: as much effort into identifying and soliciting affluent women as

664
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: it does men, which is really strange to me and

665
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: not something I've thought about, but it's it's a huge mistake. UH.

666
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: Deborah Mesh, who's the director of the Women's Philanthropy Institute

667
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: at Indiana University UH, says that when you when it

668
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: comes to people running these huge nonprofits looking at their donors,

669
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: women are not considered to be major donors or decision

670
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: makers the way men are. And she said, actually, guys,

671
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: women tend to be much more loyal donors than men,

672
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: and they are often better at asking their network. This

673
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: goes back to the Friday evening girls. Uh, they're often

674
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: much better at asking their network of friends for support.

675
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: And she said, we certainly see that in many studies

676
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: there are financial gains for organizations when more women are

677
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: on the board. So how many women are on the board.

678
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: Not enough women make up of nonprofit board members. But again,

679
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: when you get up to those boards of those humongous,

680
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: big budget nonprofits, that number drops to just a third

681
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: of the board members. Not to mention, those women CEOs

682
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: make twenty nine percent less than male CEOs at those

683
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: largest nonprofits, which is a larger salary gap than in

684
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: the general economy, although you see it shrink along with

685
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: the size of the organization because the smaller than nonprofit,

686
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: the more women that you have working there. And it

687
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: makes me kind of just want to take a nap

688
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: because it's very exhausted to see women's work so completely

689
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: and totally undervalued, even though without nonprofits our society would

690
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: fall apart. But here is the thing. There is a

691
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: major problem with gender, okay, but there's an even major

692
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: rarer problem with how few people of color are in

693
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: those power positions on those boards. And running nonprofits. Yeah.

694
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: Derwin DuBose and Ruth McCambridge both wrote about this over

695
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: at Nonprofit Quarterly, and they cited a fourteen board source

696
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: study that found that eighty percent of nonprofit board members

697
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: and nine of board chairs were white, as were eight

698
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: nine percent of the executives. Nearly a third of the

699
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: nonprofit boards they looked at lacked a single person of color.

700
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: And the thing is, those numbers really haven't changed much

701
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: in like many years, despite the fact that you have

702
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: so many nonprofits out there who say, yeah, diversity and

703
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: inclusivity are our core values. And they talked to people

704
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: of color who actually existed at some of these organizations,

705
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: and more than six so that they felt excluded from

706
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: power within their organization. In thirteen percent reported experiencing tokenism.

707
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: And as research from the Anti Casey Foundation highlighted, there

708
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: is a major disconnect between the lack of diversity and

709
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 1: who is running and controlling the purse strings of these

710
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: nonprofits and the fact that at least sixty percent of

711
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: nonprofits are directly serving people of color. So if you

712
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: aren't having that kind of representation on your boards, staff,

713
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 1: or leadership team, not to mention your volunteers, people of

714
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: color end up as passive re appience rather than active partners.

715
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: And oh, this is reminding me so much of Ray's

716
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: new show. My god, I was just gonna say that

717
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: on HBO. It's called Insecure, and she works at one

718
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: of these quintessentially white, smaller budget nonprofits and she's the

719
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: token black person because we're gonna help We're going to

720
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: help the urban youths. But really it crystallizes a lot

721
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: of this podcast. We could have just said alone and

722
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. Go watch Insecure. I maybe he

723
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: should do it anyway. It's a really good show, but

724
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 1: it is, it's a fairly accurate representation. Yeah, and uh,

725
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: Tizianna Daring, who is a Boston College professor and the

726
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: former executive director of Harvard's Houser Center for Nonprofit Organization, says,

727
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: as a result, we miss assets that they value in

728
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: the community and run the risk of failing to understand

729
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: what quality is to those whom organizations seek to support

730
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: and under leverage passion for cha change because when you

731
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: look at nonprofit employees, not not the c e o s,

732
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: but when you look at the employees, only eight percent

733
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: of them are people of color. Uh, and that breaks

734
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: down to ten percent of them being African American, five

735
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: percent Hispanic or Latino, and just one percent Asian or

736
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: Pacific islander. So you are missing out in general in

737
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: the nonprofit world on a lot of voices who would

738
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: have so much to contribute to these organizations missions. But

739
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: what it's going to take to change this situation is

740
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: really pulling Mary Elizabeth Garrett. If you are a stakeholder

741
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: and an influencer with the financial cloud to do it,

742
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: you vote with your money. You say, hey, I would

743
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: be happy to donate to your organization if you would

744
00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: maybe diversify your staff. Yeah, exactly, And I mean Debos

745
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: points out that there really has to be a clear

746
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: commitment to inclusivity. And Debose talks about how people of

747
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: color who go interview for these nonprofit jobs report that

748
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: they feel most confident and this is pretty common sense

749
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: and not surprising at all, but they feel most confident

750
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: in the words that the interviewer is saying when there

751
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: are actually people of color there to back up those words,

752
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: those nice pretty words about diversity and inclusivity. UM. A

753
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: lot of people he spoke with and a lot of

754
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: the studies he cited, just show a general sense of

755
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: kind of disillusionment and not being connected because all of

756
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: these nonprofits are like, yeah, we want to be inclusive

757
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: and diverse and help diverse communities, but we haven't really

758
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: hired any people of color, and that can lead to

759
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: a lot of disillusionment and burnout. Well, and I'm sure

760
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: um extra burnout too if you are the array in

761
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: your office, if you are one of the only people

762
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: of color in your office. I mean obviously that that

763
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: would apply whether you're working in a nonprofit or not.

764
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: But when you add the typical conditions of a nonprofit

765
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: where you might be not paid so much and doing

766
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: a lot and sometimes depending on the mission, it can

767
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: be hugely emotionally draining as well. Um, that just adds

768
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: another layer to all of this. And it's not surprising

769
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: to see that an Opportunity Knocks survey found that half

770
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: of nonprofit sector employees might be burned out or in

771
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: danger of burnout. Um, but A, there's really no time

772
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: for self care and be there's no time, there's no

773
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: money for therapy. Yeah, exactly. And and Sophie morrisset wonder

774
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: she's related to atlantis UM wrote a piece really recently

775
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: over at the Stay in for a social Innovation review,

776
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: where she's like, yeah, this is not surprising, and nonprofit

777
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: leaders are super familiar with chronic nonprofit employee burnout, to

778
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: the point where it's almost just not that it's written

779
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: into the job description, but it's definitely imprinted on people's

780
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: expectations of their employees. And she says, you know, the

781
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: usual tips are to take vacation, no your boundaries, let

782
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: go of the need to do it all. But she

783
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: has some more advice from third sector Today that she sites,

784
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: which is basically like it's kind of depressing advice. Um.

785
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,720
Speaker 1: She says, you need to know when to leave, set

786
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: a firm end date for your work with anyone organization,

787
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: recognize the feeling of burnout creep, and leave before you

788
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: end up freaking out, flipping over a table and burning bridges.

789
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: She says, hey, you know, on the on the upside,

790
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 1: this makes room for people with fresh idea and allows

791
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: you to return if and when you feel refreshed and

792
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: ready to take it all back on and listen. I

793
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 1: will add something else to that from my own experience.

794
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: If possible, find your allies who can help maintain that

795
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:21,919
Speaker 1: awareness of what's going on, and I'm talking about maybe yes,

796
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: like signs of your own personal burnout creep, but also

797
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: signs that the nonprofit is not really treating employees in

798
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: the way that it should be, So go ahead and

799
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: get out when you can. And in fact, that is

800
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: what my boss, who mentored me in a lot of ways,

801
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: did for me at that nonprofit job. He said, listen,

802
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: you know this mission that we're working on is incredible,

803
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: but I think that you would be best served if

804
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: you go, because you know the hammer is going to

805
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: come down at some point. Um. And I am still

806
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: thankful to him to this day because that's how I

807
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: ended up ultimately in the podcast studio and to that end,

808
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: Morris Set advises nonprofit leaders on how that they can

809
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 1: make a big difference. Um, you can offer that moral support, yes,

810
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: but if you can pay people more and provide perks,

811
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: that's huge. But I feel like that's so much easier

812
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: said than done in the nonprofit realm. I mean, because too,

813
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: there's that issue of the lines being bored between employees

814
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 1: and volunteers, and you often ending up being treated like

815
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: a volunteer and not being paid for the work that

816
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: you're doing or treated like family. So when it's time

817
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: to ask for a raise, you things get really uncomfortable

818
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: because you feel like you're being rude to a friend

819
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: or or something like that, we're taking money away from

820
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: your mission. Let's say your mission is helping kids in

821
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,399
Speaker 1: some way. It's like, well, we would give you more money,

822
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: but what about the kids. And of course the kids

823
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: need to help too, But UM, if half of your

824
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: sector are burned out, that's that's not going to help

825
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: the kids at the end of the day. So I

826
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,399
Speaker 1: am wondering what people listening to, those who are who

827
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: are in that sector UM have experienced. UM. And one

828
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 1: gender dynamic that we didn't get into is in more

829
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 1: of the startup realm, where it's more acceptable, gender norm

830
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: wise for a young woman to start a nonprofit than

831
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: to start a for profit startup. UM. This is actually

832
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: something that Emily Ari's of Bossed Up writes about her

833
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: intent to start specifically a for profit enterprise simply because

834
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: that is her vision and her goal and you know,

835
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: she didn't want, doesn't care to be steered into what

836
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: is considered you know, a more appropriate realm. You know,

837
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: just go go the nonprofit route, you know, women are

838
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 1: more likable when they are leading nonprofits than when they're

839
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: leading businesses. Why is that the case? And why is

840
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: it totally cool that this overwhelmingly female dominated sector is

841
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: borderline exploited a lot of times? Exactly, You're just expected

842
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: to work for the passion of it. Yeah, and I

843
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: mean and these are broad, sweeping statements to make about

844
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: a massive sector. Um, but there there's some there's some

845
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: major issues going on behind the scenes of all of that.

846
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 1: Terrific on the groundwork that nonprofits are doing. So with that,

847
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: since you have so much time, people who are working

848
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: in nonprofits, write us a letter. Uh no, but sincerely,

849
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Um, if you volunteer

850
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: with nonprofits, or if you work in the sector, or

851
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: if you have of benefited from services, we would love

852
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: to hear all of your perspectives on this. Mom Stuff

853
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com is where you can

854
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: send your letters. You can also tweet us at mom

855
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a

856
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: couple of messages to share with you when we come

857
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Speaker 1: right back from a quick break. All right, I have

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Speaker 1: a letter here from Brittany in response to our Oprah

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00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: wasn't built in a day episode, and she says all

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00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: I can say is thank you. Literally the night before

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00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: I listen to this episode, I was on my couch

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00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: crying over a glass of wine with my husband because

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00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: I hate my job and feel frustrated that I cannot

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Speaker 1: break into the field I want to work in, which

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Speaker 1: is HR. The frustration came because as I was reading

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Speaker 1: through literally hundreds of job postings, it became increasingly clear

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Speaker 1: to me that I was not qualified for these jobs,

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Speaker 1: despite my bachelor's degree in business and my Human Resource

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Speaker 1: management certificate. Enter smenty quote. Women don't apply to jobs

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Speaker 1: until they feel one percent qualified, whereas men will apply

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Speaker 1: when they feel only sixty percent qualified. Wow. I re

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Speaker 1: well on the podcast twice to listen to that again.

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00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: In that moment, I had an epiphany. I constantly feel

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Speaker 1: overqualified and bored at any job. I have no wonder

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Speaker 1: considering I apply to jobs that I'm already completely qualified for.

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00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: So within two months I am bored out of my skull.

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Speaker 1: Since listening to the episode, I have applied to HR

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Speaker 1: jobs that I am sixty to eighty percent qualified for.

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00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: I also taped a piece of paper to my bathroom

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00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: mirror that reads, Oprah Wasn't Built in a Day. Great

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00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: reminder every morning to just keep going. Thank you for

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00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: your awesome podcast and for inspiring me to go after

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00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: my dream job. Brittany, Oh, Brittany, now we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: crying into a glass of wine. I'm so happy for you.

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00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: And girl, let me tell you that's sixty versus percent thing.

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Speaker 1: Let a fire or me too, and I am so

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Speaker 1: happy for you. So I have a letter here from

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Speaker 1: Alyssa about the same episode, and she writes, Oprah Wasn't

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Speaker 1: Built in a Day. Seriously, could not have come at

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Speaker 1: a better time for me. I'm in my first semester

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00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: of grad school working on my Master of Library Science

892
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: shout out to your librarians episodes, and I've had a

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00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 1: rough couple of days academically. I goofed pretty majorly on

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00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: two different assignments, and I definitely had to cry myself

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00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: to sleep, want to give up moment listening to your podcast.

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00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: I totally related to everything you talked about. I've always

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Speaker 1: been internally motivated and done well academically. Failure is not

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00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: something to which I'm accustomed. This episode was exactly what

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Speaker 1: I needed to realize that it's okay to mess up sometimes.

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Speaker 1: It was just two assignments in a two year program

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00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: that I'm super excited about. Life goes on. Just as

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00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: Oprah wasn't built in a day, neither is a master's degree.

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Speaker 1: Oh thank you so much, Alissa. I'm so happy that

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Speaker 1: it came at the right time for you. And you

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Speaker 1: know what, Caroline, I'm just glad you bought that T

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01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: shirt that says over wasn't built in a day because

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01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: I think you have started a movement teas in the

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01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: trap of help start a movement. I love that T

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01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: shirt and I'm so glad that ciniment resonates with all

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Speaker 1: of you. And if you have a letter to share

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01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: with us, mom stuff at how stuff works dot com

912
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: is where you can do it and for links to

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01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of

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01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources so you

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01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: can learn even more about nonprofits. Head on over to

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Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. We're more on

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Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com