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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, how do you feel about breaking the laws

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Speaker 1: of physics? Boy? That needs some context. It really depends

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Speaker 1: on whether you have a good physics lawyer to back

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Speaker 1: you up. It really depends on which law you're gonna break.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you might get a misdemeanor. In some cases,

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Speaker 1: you might even end up with a felon. Really there's

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Speaker 1: a range here, all right, So then what's the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of getting life in prison for physics too? I think

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Speaker 1: they put you in a room with a cartoonist and

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Speaker 1: they're the worst defenders. Really. But really, but when you

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Speaker 1: hear about an idea that breaks a law of physics,

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Speaker 1: even if it's a big one, are you hoping it's

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Speaker 1: true or you hoping it's wrong? Well, you know, anytime

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Speaker 1: somebody claims to disprove Einstein, I get pretty skeptical because

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Speaker 1: that's been tested a lot. But in my heart of hearts,

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Speaker 1: I'm really hoping that someone disproves a big law physics,

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Speaker 1: like relativity. I mean that that's how we learned something

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Speaker 1: new about the universe. That's a good spin. I think

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Speaker 1: I'll hire you as my physics lawyer. In that case,

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Speaker 1: you're going to go to physics jail. Because I am

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Speaker 1: not a good physics lawyer. Hi am r handa cartoonists

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Speaker 1: and the creator of PhD comics. Hi I'm Daniel. I'm

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Speaker 1: a particle physicist, and I once thought I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer, and then I got argued out of it.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, wow, history almost went a different way for you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was big into debate in high school and I

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Speaker 1: liked arguing, or I thought I liked arguing. I did

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Speaker 1: a lot of it, But then I discovered that, you know,

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Speaker 1: in debate there's sort of never really any truth. You

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Speaker 1: can just persuade people of anything. And in the end

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Speaker 1: I liked physics because it had a hard negative objectivity

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Speaker 1: at its core. Like I want certainty, just like in

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Speaker 1: quantum physics where everything's for sure and there's no funny names. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want objectivity. You know, the universe comes down on

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Speaker 1: one side or the other. You try the experiment and

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Speaker 1: it either works or it fails. You can't persuade somebody

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Speaker 1: some things, right if the experiments say no, at least

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Speaker 1: on a probabilistic kind of sense, Right, there's certainty. Yeah, alright, well,

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Speaker 1: we are certainly starting our podcast. Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 1: the Universe, a production of I Heart Radio in which

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Speaker 1: we talk about all the amazing things certain and uncertain

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Speaker 1: about the universe, the things that we know and the

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Speaker 1: things that we do not yet know, the things that work,

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Speaker 1: and the things that we are still working on. Our

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Speaker 1: goal in this podcast is to educate you about everything

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Speaker 1: that science understands, everything that science is still working on,

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Speaker 1: and everything that human beings wonder about. All the things

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Speaker 1: that are possible out there in this big, beautiful universe

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Speaker 1: of ours, and also maybe all of the things that

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Speaker 1: are impossible in this universe, things that cannot be or

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Speaker 1: that we maybe wish they could be. And history is

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Speaker 1: filled with examples of scientists saying something is impossible and

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Speaker 1: then somebody coming along and proving them wrong. So one

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Speaker 1: of the most fun experience in science is pushing that boundaries,

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Speaker 1: developing something new, is understanding the universe at a deeper

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Speaker 1: level and figuring out something that we thought was impossible,

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Speaker 1: and maybe even giving us a tool to explore the

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Speaker 1: universe right, because you know, sometimes some of the biggest

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Speaker 1: ideas in physics have been that they thought they were

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Speaker 1: they were impossible, you know, like when quantum physics first

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Speaker 1: came out, people thought it were like, that's a crazy

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Speaker 1: why would nature be like that? Right? Even Einstein thought

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Speaker 1: it was kind of impossible. That's right. Sometimes you have

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Speaker 1: to change your perspective and open your mind to something

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Speaker 1: totally new. On the other hand, sometimes the universe is

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Speaker 1: just hard and cold and it says no to your idea.

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Speaker 1: It's impossible to deal with this universe. But yeah, so dude,

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, we'll be talking about one such idea,

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Speaker 1: which today sounds kind of impossible. In fact, it has

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Speaker 1: impossible in its brand name. Are we talking about impossible burghers? Oh,

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Speaker 1: that sounds delicious, That sounds as possible to resist. That's right,

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Speaker 1: because one struggle plaguing humanity's desire to explore the universe

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Speaker 1: is just physically getting out there into the universe. The

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Speaker 1: universe is frustratingly, amazingly beautifying, le vast and enormous, which

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Speaker 1: makes it difficult to explore. And so to get out there,

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Speaker 1: to get to a neighboring star, to find those aliens,

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Speaker 1: to visit black holes and unravel the secrets of general

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Speaker 1: relativity and quantum mechanics, we need a device, a drive

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Speaker 1: that could actually get us there. Yeah, maybe we need

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Speaker 1: an impossible idea to solve a seemingly impossible problem. And

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Speaker 1: so today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question,

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Speaker 1: what is the impossible drive? And is it possible? Possibly

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Speaker 1: in a possible kind of way. This is a this

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Speaker 1: is a very certain podcast episode here today, Daniel, is

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Speaker 1: it possible the impossible drive may possibly be possible? While

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Speaker 1: eating an impossible burger and watching Mission Impossible with con Cruise.

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Speaker 1: That does sound like an impossible combination of things to

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Speaker 1: pull off all that one. But yeah, so this is

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Speaker 1: kind of a crazy idea. I have to say, I

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Speaker 1: had not heard of this before getting your notes this morning,

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Speaker 1: and so this is all sort of an idea to

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Speaker 1: solve the problem of how to get across base, like

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Speaker 1: how to get two distant stars without having to bring

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of fuel with you. That's right, because

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Speaker 1: there's just a basic problem in getting to those stars,

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Speaker 1: Like you want to get to those stars, they're really

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Speaker 1: far away, all right. So to get really far away

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Speaker 1: you have to get going really really fast. And to

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Speaker 1: get going really fast, you need an engine, something that's

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Speaker 1: going to push you, and the current rockets that we

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Speaker 1: have you require a lot of fuel. So you can

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Speaker 1: do like a pretty simple calculation and ask like how

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Speaker 1: much raw good fuel would it take to accelerate a

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Speaker 1: very very small object, you know, something like a toothpick

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Speaker 1: up two, I don't know five of the speed of

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Speaker 1: light really the kind of the kind of speed that

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Speaker 1: would make it take like only a hundred years to

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Speaker 1: get to alpha centar. So my spacecraft was just a

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Speaker 1: toothpick zero point one, Grahams, how much fuel would it

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Speaker 1: take to get it to alpha centri within like a

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Speaker 1: hundred years? Yeah, And the problem is that your spaceship

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Speaker 1: is not just a toothpick. It's a toothpick plus all

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Speaker 1: the fuel, right, Your fuel has to push the fuel

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Speaker 1: you're going to need in the future. And so if

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Speaker 1: the payload is just a toothpick, then most of your

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Speaker 1: rocket ship is actually fuel, and that means you need

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Speaker 1: more fuel. And the more fuel you have, the more

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Speaker 1: fuel you need, and so it grows very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: You got to like fill up the tank and take

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Speaker 1: it with you, exactly. You have to do. You have

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Speaker 1: to bring an oil tanker, not just like a little

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Speaker 1: prious exactly, and then you've got to accelerate that oil tanker.

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Speaker 1: That oil tanker also needs a tank of gas, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it very quickly grows to a huge number.

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Speaker 1: And the number is actually ridiculous, Like, in order to

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Speaker 1: have enough fuel to get your toothpick up to five

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Speaker 1: of the speed of light takes more mass than exists

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Speaker 1: in the observable universe by a huge by huge number.

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Speaker 1: How much hen to the That's not a number, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: you made that up. It's impossible. I didn't make that up.

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Speaker 1: There's an impossible mathematics behind this. It's just it's frustratingly

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Speaker 1: difficult one with two thousand zeros in front of Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's not hard to imagine how the number gets

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Speaker 1: so big. I mean, say your spaceship is the size

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Speaker 1: of Jupiter. How much fuel you're gonna need. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: need as much fuel as like the Sun. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: now your spaceship is Jupiter and the Sun. How much

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Speaker 1: fuel a you're gonna need to push that? Well, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna need like more suns. So it just grows just

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Speaker 1: to push this toothpick. So the lesson is chemical rockets

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Speaker 1: that require this kind of fuel are not going to

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Speaker 1: get us across the stars. You need a better way, right,

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Speaker 1: one where you don't have to bring your fuel with you.

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Speaker 1: That's right, when where you don't have to bring the

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Speaker 1: fuel with you, that's the idea, even if you use like,

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Speaker 1: you know, is this the current fuel technology, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you know, the current rocket fuel or is this

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Speaker 1: like imagining like what if we invent fusion drives or

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Speaker 1: you know, we managed to invent fission drives. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: basic limitation is that you need something to push off of,

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Speaker 1: and so it's not so much limited by the technology

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Speaker 1: of that push as to just having to carry the

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Speaker 1: fuel along with you. I see, like how much mass

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Speaker 1: you have to expel in order to be pushed to

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Speaker 1: the speed of light? Yeah, precisely. So this this cool,

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Speaker 1: crazy new idea out there, This e M drive sometimes

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Speaker 1: called a impossible drive, that some people think may have

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Speaker 1: the possibility to overcome this problem. And that's why they

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Speaker 1: call it an impossible drive because it seems to violate

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Speaker 1: some laws of physics. But some experimenters out there claimed

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Speaker 1: to have built one and made it work. Wow. And

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Speaker 1: this came to us from a question from one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners, right Russell Alert. Yeah, he wrote to us

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Speaker 1: about a year ago and said, hey, you could you

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Speaker 1: guys explain this drive to me. Is it impossible? Doesn't work?

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Speaker 1: Could it actually get us to the stars? And it's

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Speaker 1: taken us a year to answer just to well, I

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Speaker 1: built one of these things. I welcome to a centauri

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Speaker 1: and I came back. I mean, I do some real

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Speaker 1: field research. Did you think I was just googling? You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to just give you an idea and

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Speaker 1: say it's impossible or not possible. We have to see

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Speaker 1: for ourselves. That's right. I'm an experimentalist. I backed my

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Speaker 1: answers up with real research. Man, this is not just

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Speaker 1: googling around. Okay, right, So we're actually recording this from

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Speaker 1: a toothpick as we're as we're making our way to

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Speaker 1: to pick podcast studios, inc well as usually what we

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Speaker 1: were wondering how many people out there had heard of

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Speaker 1: this impossible drive or e M drive? And so, as usual,

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Speaker 1: Daniel went out there into the wilds of the internet

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Speaker 1: to ask people what is an e M drive and

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Speaker 1: could it ever work? So think about it for a second,

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Speaker 1: if you had ever heard of it or not, and

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Speaker 1: if physicist ask you, what would you say. Here's what

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Speaker 1: people had to say, Honey, I'm trying if I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard of. I'm going to presume that e M stands

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Speaker 1: for electromagnetic and drive as some sort of propulsion systems.

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Speaker 1: So maybe some sort of rocket buster or engine that

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Speaker 1: doesn't require few but relies on electromagnetic waves to propel itself.

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Speaker 1: I think theoretically it could work, but it's on the

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Speaker 1: realm of theoretical really tbt. But nothing has been done,

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Speaker 1: but it there. Supposedly you need a lot of energy

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Speaker 1: to make it work. And E M drived I think, well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, it sounds really familiar, like I like

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Speaker 1: a lot of sci fi, so I it's a term

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Speaker 1: that has come up a lot, and I think it

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist yet. And I think it also has to

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Speaker 1: do with time travel, but I'm not sure. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to look at up later. And E M drive

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Speaker 1: is an electromagnetic drive that functions by putting a lot

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Speaker 1: of microwaves together. Currently Toshiba in general Electric have the

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Speaker 1: best ratings by consumer reports. Anyways, a bunch of these

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Speaker 1: together and shoot microwaves out one end to get the

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Speaker 1: ship to go in the opposite direction. It definitely doesn't

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Speaker 1: work and will kill the grass in your backyard if

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Speaker 1: you attempt to achieve launch. I have no idea what

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Speaker 1: an E M drive is. I'm assuming that means electromagnetic,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure, so I have no idea to work.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what this is. Some kind of propulsion,

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Speaker 1: but I don't have any idea. I have never heard

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Speaker 1: of an e M drive, so I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: then E M stands for electromagnetic, and of course drive

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Speaker 1: means it's some sort of a of an engine um

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Speaker 1: with they can use electromagnetic pulses to create thrust. I

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Speaker 1: guess I don't know what an e M drive is,

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Speaker 1: but I do know another type of drive. It's called

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Speaker 1: the infinite probability drive. It was installed on the starship

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Speaker 1: part of Gold, and it was and it is still

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Speaker 1: in use today. I can explained it properly, but I

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Speaker 1: know it's more possible than a warp drive. Sorry, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: no idea. Maybe a device for driving around the universe.

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Speaker 1: I have not ideal EM drive. So the M drive

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Speaker 1: I've heard, Uh it's not the Canay drive where it's

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Speaker 1: uh slotted resonance space um. But the idea is that

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Speaker 1: momentum is quantized, and so if you have a smaller

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Speaker 1: space on one side and the larger space on the

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Speaker 1: other side. It can bounce back some kind of microwave frequency,

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Speaker 1: I think, and create propulsion lists thrust, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's anything that actually works. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: an e M drive is exactly. I think it would

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Speaker 1: be electromagnetic, where you're using some kind of electromagnetic reaction

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Speaker 1: to throw particles out of the back of a spaceship

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Speaker 1: to accelerate it. I suppose that would work, but it's

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Speaker 1: probably not what you mean, all right, not not a

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Speaker 1: lot of recognition, but some people seem to know what

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Speaker 1: it was, or maybe they just lashed onto the electromagnetic

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Speaker 1: cart it. He asked some good guesses there, and some

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Speaker 1: people had definitely heard about this, and this really made

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Speaker 1: some waves. Pun intended about ten years ago. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of splash in the media about this drive,

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Speaker 1: and then recently there's been some more news and so

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that a few a few of our

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Speaker 1: listeners have heard about this discussion. Oh nice, nice, I

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Speaker 1: guess my first question is is it vegetarian? Does it

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Speaker 1: come from plant based products like the Impossible Burger? No

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Speaker 1: meat was harmed in the creation of this impossible only

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Speaker 1: laws of physics were totally destroyed, and all life depends

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Speaker 1: on the laws of physics. So I don't really know

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Speaker 1: is it vegan to break the laws of physics or not.

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Speaker 1: I need of ruling on that. We need a better

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Speaker 1: physics lawyer or a physics judge. I guess we need

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Speaker 1: to go to the International Court of Physics cosmological Court

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Speaker 1: of Impossibility. I was let's step thraight here. Uh. First

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Speaker 1: of all, well what is it and where did this

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Speaker 1: idea come from? So the idea for the e M

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Speaker 1: drive is to try to build a drive where you

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Speaker 1: don't need to bring along with you something to push against.

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Speaker 1: You don't need something to have a propellant. And remember

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Speaker 1: that all rockets that we've ever invented so far have

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Speaker 1: two basic elements. One is some source of energy, you know,

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Speaker 1: like fuel or laser or something, and the other is

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Speaker 1: something to push against. And this comes from the conservation

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Speaker 1: of momentum. If you're gonna move left, the only way

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Speaker 1: to do that is to push something else right. That's

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Speaker 1: the only way really in the universe, the only way.

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Speaker 1: There's no magic in the universe, not that we're aware of,

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Speaker 1: and the law of conservation of momentum is very very

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Speaker 1: deeply ingrained in physics and has been tested a zillion

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Speaker 1: times that you know, the scales of galaxies and particles,

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Speaker 1: so we're pretty confident it's true. And it just basically

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Speaker 1: is that momentum is conserved, so momentum doesn't change. You

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Speaker 1: can take a brick and split it in half and

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Speaker 1: send one half to the left, but then you have

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Speaker 1: to send the other half to the right so that

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Speaker 1: their momentum balances. Like if your brick and initially has

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Speaker 1: zero momentum, in the final state, it also has to

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Speaker 1: have zero momentum. There can be motion, there can be

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Speaker 1: kinetic energy, but there has to be zero net momentum.

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Speaker 1: So it's almost like if you want to go to

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Speaker 1: alpha centari, you have to push yourself there. Almost it's

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Speaker 1: like you have to if you want to get your

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Speaker 1: toothpick to alpha centor you have to push the equivalent

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Speaker 1: of a toothpick and the opposite direction. Yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: to sit in your ship and throw stuff out the back. Right.

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Speaker 1: You know, some people out there wonder, like do rockets

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Speaker 1: work in empty space? Because they imagine that rockets work

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Speaker 1: by pushing on the air. They're not pushing on the air,

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Speaker 1: they're just throwing stuff out the back, right, because if

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Speaker 1: they want to move forward, something else has to move backwards.

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Speaker 1: So the whole system, the combination of all the original stuff,

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Speaker 1: has the same momentum is when it's starting. And this

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Speaker 1: is pretty familiar. Like if you fire a gun, right,

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Speaker 1: you're pushing a bullet and there's a recoil. So imagine,

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Speaker 1: you know, the rocket example is the bullet is the

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Speaker 1: stuff you're pushing at the back, and the gun is

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Speaker 1: your rocket. A one way to power a rocket ship

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Speaker 1: is to stand in the back of it and shoot

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Speaker 1: bullets out the back. Oh hey, that's an idea that

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Speaker 1: you guys thought about, that one. That is basically the idea.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's what a chemical rocket is, right, You

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Speaker 1: start a big explosion and focus all the stuff and

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Speaker 1: shoot it out the back, and that's why it goes.

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Speaker 1: You take the energy, and that energy is used to

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Speaker 1: push stuff out the back. So that's what a rocket is.

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Speaker 1: But it needs those two elements, one energy and to

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Speaker 1: something to throw out the back. Because you can just

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Speaker 1: stand there and throw things off the bag, you would

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Speaker 1: get tired. You need you need some energy to do

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Speaker 1: it right. Well, it's like you can't push yourself up

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Speaker 1: by your bootstraps, right, You can't stand in your spaceship

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Speaker 1: and like get it going by pushing on the inside

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Speaker 1: of it. Okay, that's the basic idea of every rocket

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Speaker 1: we've ever had. You need energy, and you need something

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Speaker 1: to recoil against. You need propellant to throw at the back, right, right,

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Speaker 1: And then the problem is that you need to bring

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Speaker 1: that mess with you, the stuff you're gonna explode with

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Speaker 1: you in order to keep going. Yes, and then you

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Speaker 1: need to push that stuff. Right, So you need to

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Speaker 1: today push all the stuff you're gonna need tomorrow, and

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Speaker 1: the stuff you need in a week and in a year,

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Speaker 1: and that stuff adds up, which means today you need

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Speaker 1: even more stuff to push. And that's how you end

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Speaker 1: up with, you know, spaceship Jupiter, just to go to

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Speaker 1: Alpha Centauri, the paler of the size of the Sun. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so the idea for the impossible drive is like, well,

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Speaker 1: can we skip that step? Can we somehow have a

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Speaker 1: drive that doesn't need any recoil, that doesn't throw anything

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Speaker 1: out the back? Wow? Like um, something that somehow violates

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Speaker 1: the laws of conservation of momentum. Yes, exactly, And that's

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Speaker 1: why it's called the impossible drive because it would totally

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Speaker 1: violate the laws of conservation of momentum. Or you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's something else going on, like if you would

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Speaker 1: build a device that seems to the laws of conservation momentum,

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Speaker 1: that means that either one you screwed something up in

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Speaker 1: your experiments to momentum isn't actually conserved, you know, which

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Speaker 1: would be like a huge deal, or this momentum is conserved,

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Speaker 1: but there's something else in your system you weren't to

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Speaker 1: wear it. You've discovered some new force field or some

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Speaker 1: thing in the quantum foam or something. Right, so you've

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Speaker 1: learned something about the universe. And at that point, like

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Speaker 1: why would you want to go to a centaur. Just

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Speaker 1: stay here and monetize your amazing physics breaking idea. That's right,

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Speaker 1: your impossible foam or whatever it is you've discovered. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and you know, so this is a different class

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Speaker 1: of ideas. This e M drive is a different class

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Speaker 1: of ideas than ideas like a solar sales. Solar sales

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Speaker 1: of another really cool way to get to high speeds.

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Speaker 1: But the idea there is you sort of leave the

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Speaker 1: engine at home and you push the photons and they

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Speaker 1: get captured by your spaceship, which just gets pushed by

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Speaker 1: those photons, and so the whole engine. You can think

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Speaker 1: of it like as the laser that stays home, and

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Speaker 1: the sale is the part of the ship. Right. It's

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Speaker 1: like you you're that's that's different idea where you kind

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Speaker 1: of catch things that are out there and use them

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Speaker 1: to kind of hit your ride. Yeah, exactly, that's a

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Speaker 1: different idea, but that requires some like huge laser focused

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Speaker 1: on your ship from really, really really far away. This

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Speaker 1: would be a drive you could take anywhere. You could

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Speaker 1: use it to lift off the surface of the Earth

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Speaker 1: and zoom around the whole galaxy and get up to

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Speaker 1: really high speeds. I mean, it's sounds awesome. I want

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Speaker 1: the impossible drive to be impossible. I want a car

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Speaker 1: with the impossible drive. I do. Yeah, I want to

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Speaker 1: take it to you know, the Burger Joint and by

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Speaker 1: an impossible burger. All right, Well, it sounds too good

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Speaker 1: to be true, almost kind of like a Tom Cruise

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Speaker 1: movie almost. But let's get into how it actually works

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Speaker 1: and whether or not it's possible or possible and what

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Speaker 1: people have done about it. But first let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break, all right, Daniel, we're talking about the impossible drive,

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Speaker 1: which is maybe a crazy easy idea that violates the

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Speaker 1: laws of physics, but which could potentially get us to

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Speaker 1: other star systems in other galaxies. Because it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a tough problem. It's a tough problem, and we should

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00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: keep an open mind. We should think, hey, some fresh

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00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: ideas out there could crack an age old problem or

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Speaker 1: reveal something new about physics and the universe. So we

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Speaker 1: should definitely not just scoff and dismiss. We should analyze it, right,

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Speaker 1: But then we also have to be skeptical. We can't

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Speaker 1: just take every crazy ideas, right. You gotta eat that

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Speaker 1: impossible burger just to see for yourself, because it maybe

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Speaker 1: it can't take it's just like real or maybe the

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Speaker 1: beyond burger is beyond the impossible burger. Who knows, right,

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Speaker 1: data is the only is there beyond engine? Also not

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Speaker 1: yet I'm working on I see. Oh sorry, sorry, that's

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00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: beyond the scope of today's podcast, beyond my nda agreement

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Speaker 1: I have with you. We'll have to edit that out,

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Speaker 1: all right, Well, maybe i'd step us through. How does

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Speaker 1: this impossible drive work, Like, what's the basic physics idea

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Speaker 1: or not physics idea behind. It's kind of a crazy idea,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, I don't really understand how it's even supposed

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Speaker 1: to work, but if you look around online you discover

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Speaker 1: some basic fact about it. So it's a copper cylinder, right,

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Speaker 1: It's made out of metal, and the cylinders have two

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Speaker 1: flat ends like a cylinder, but one side is bigger

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Speaker 1: than the other. And the idea is that this kind

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Speaker 1: of copper cylinder is a resonant chamber for microwaves. So

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Speaker 1: microwaves are just a kind of light, they're kind of photon.

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Speaker 1: You put them in there, and this chamber is the

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Speaker 1: right size for them to bounce around and sort of

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00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: add up and build on each other. So they can

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00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: hang out inside, reflect back and reinforce themselves. So you

404
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: put microwaves in there, they should just sort of bounce

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Speaker 1: around forever. It's like a bottle that can capture microware.

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Speaker 1: Really they don't get absorbed into the metal or anything.

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00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: That's the idea. I mean, they do a little bit,

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00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: but if it's the right shape and the right material,

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00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: then they mostly just reflect. It's like fiber optics. You know,

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00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: you have this reflection of light in the interior. If

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Speaker 1: you have the right angle and the right materials and

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Speaker 1: the right interface between the materials in the resident cavity

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Speaker 1: and the thing that makes up the cavity, you can

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Speaker 1: get almost told internal reflection all right. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like a resonant cavity right where microwaves bound in

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Speaker 1: side and somehow that gives you superpowers. Well, if you're

417
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 1: bitten by that cavity right, then you get that cavity

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00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: is proportionate starting that's right, you become the impossible man.

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Speaker 1: Know the idea, So you have a bottle with Marco

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Speaker 1: waves bouncing around inside of it. But then if you

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Speaker 1: make your bottle bigger on one side, so it's a

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Speaker 1: cylinder if one side is bigger on the other, and

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Speaker 1: then it sort of tapers. The idea is that the

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Speaker 1: radiation pressure on one side is bigger than on the

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Speaker 1: other side, just because you get more microwaves hitting one

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Speaker 1: wall of the cavity than the other. And so then

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Speaker 1: they think, well, if you're pushing on the left side

428
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 1: more than the right side, shouldn't that generate some thrust?

429
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: Shouldn't that push this thing because it's more forced the

430
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 1: left than there is on the right. That's the idea

431
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: behind the e M draw by radiation pressure. You mean

432
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: like the forest that the photons are making on the

433
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 1: cavity wall. That's right, because what happens when a photon

434
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 1: reflects off a wall is it pushes against it. Just

435
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: like if you bounce a ball off of the wall.

436
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: It's pushing on the wall, right. It applies a force

437
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: on the wall, and the wall applies a force on

438
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 1: the photon. And so the radiation pressure is just that

439
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: when a photon gets bounced, it gets pushed, and it's

440
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 1: also doing some pushing, right. And so we talked about

441
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: it in a previous podcast, like if I take a

442
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: flashlight and flash it at you, I'm actually kind of

443
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: pushing you a little bit, and I'm being pushed back

444
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: even though it's just a flashlight. And so imagine, you know,

445
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: you have a gymnasium filled with students and each one

446
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: has a bouncy ball and they're throwing the balls against

447
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: the wall. If one wall is bigger and it's getting

448
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: hit by more balls, the idea is there's more force

449
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: on it, and so is the whole gymnasium then gonna

450
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 1: like lift up off the ground and travel to Alpha Centauri.

451
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: That's my that's my idea for Wow. Okay, this is

452
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: sounding impossible already. But what's the history of this thing?

453
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 1: Like who came up with it? And why's it so

454
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: hard to find information about it on the internet. It

455
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: has a pretty sketchy history. Um, it comes from a

456
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: guy named Roger Shoyer in two thousand one. He designed

457
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: this thing. He had this idea and he designed did it,

458
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: and he built it, and he claimed that it worked.

459
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: He said, I built it and it worked. But he

460
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: didn't really share any evidence of it, just sort of

461
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: claimed this was true. Didn't publish or anything, didn't let

462
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: anyone see the device. No, he never published a paper.

463
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: He could just it was sort of a you know,

464
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: always promising something else. He's like, he's promising the next version,

465
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: he's promising the new results, he's promising the next round,

466
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: but never actually delivered. And this guy was just an inventor,

467
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 1: a physicist or a lawyer. What Tom Cruise's brother. Yeah,

468
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: you know, he's an inventor and so he has some

469
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: technical background and you know, he was shooting meg. He

470
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: was thinking, hey, could I solve a really big problem.

471
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 1: And he had this idea and he claimed that it worked.

472
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: But you know, in science, you can't just tell people

473
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: that your idea worked. You have to prove it. You

474
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: have to describe the details. People want to understand it.

475
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: Other people will want to build it and test it

476
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: for themselves. If this is something which is true and physical,

477
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 1: it should be true in other people's labs also. And

478
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: if we want to build the m jives, we can't

479
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: just rely on one guy in basement. We need to

480
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: actually understand the physical basic can actually be impossible. It

481
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: has to be possible. It can't be some magical fairy

482
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: dust that he sprinkled on it in his garage, right,

483
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: And some scientists looked at it, I think, right in

484
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: two thousand six. Yeah, well, in two thousand six there

485
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 1: was a lot of coverage because Robert Joyer's also you know,

486
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: he's good at the pr and so he managed to

487
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: convince the New Scientist magazine, which is a magazine with

488
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,479
Speaker 1: very high readership in two thousand six, to write an

489
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: article suggesting that this thing might really be true. And

490
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: that article received a lot of criticism by science writers

491
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: because it's sort of glossed over the fact that there's

492
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: a basic problem with this drive, like it violates the

493
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: law of conservation momentum, that it shouldn't work. So the

494
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: fact that he claimed to have built it and made

495
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: it work, you know, need to be reported with a big,

496
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: big piece of So they didn't show enough skepticism. Yeah, exactly,

497
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,719
Speaker 1: and so this is roundly ridiculed. But other people were interested.

498
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: And so then there was another guy, a guy named

499
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: Guido Feda. He's just a marketing executive, but he got

500
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: really interested in this and he built another version. He

501
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: calls it the Canady Drive, like I can't, like can't

502
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: Kennet like, like impossible was taken. So I'm gonna go

503
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: with can't because that sounds like impossible. Yeah, it sounds

504
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: to me like an Irish expression like you can they

505
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: do that? But I'm not sure the linguistic origins of it.

506
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 1: But he had some contacts at NASA, and he found

507
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: some folks at the NASA Eagle Work Labs to try

508
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: to test this. What yes, And he's like, all right,

509
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: I built this, Please test this. Tell me if this

510
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: thing can work. Oh wow, So they like big like

511
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: actually NASA gut involved. Now yeah, there's a question about

512
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: whether it's actually NASA or some people at NASA. Right.

513
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: You know, like if I if I do an experiment

514
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: in my lab and I say, oh my gosh, I've

515
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: overthrown the laws of physics, can you say the University

516
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: of California has a we're throwing the laws of physics? Right.

517
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 1: I can't speak for the whole university, and these folks

518
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: at NASA don't necessarily get to speak for NASA. Maybe

519
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: it was the custodian or the cafeteria worker NASA who

520
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: like pressed the button. And then it's like NASA did

521
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: it well. It got a lot of attention because these

522
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,719
Speaker 1: folks that NASA Eagle Works labs, they tested it and

523
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: they saw a little bit of thrust, Like they claim

524
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: that it generates a very small amount of thrust. Now,

525
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: the amount you're talking about are really really really tiny.

526
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: Like we measure thrust, it's a force. We measured units

527
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: of Newton's so like a one k object on the

528
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: surface of the Earth feels ten Newton's right, So Newton

529
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: is not a small unit. But these guys when they

530
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: measured this thing, they measured like milan Newton's like one

531
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: thousands of a Newton or even smaller like micro Newton's.

532
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: So what they measured were really really small effects. Like

533
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: they built this thing, they put it on the table

534
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: and they felt a very small force when they turned it. Interesting,

535
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: but it's not nothing. It's not nothing. I mean exactly.

536
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: A Newton is like the weight of an apple almost.

537
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: So it's like, you know, it's like taina bite out

538
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 1: of an apple. It's like taking a very small bite

539
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: out of an apple. Yeah, exactly. And they put out

540
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: a paper in two thousand and sixteen saying, well, you know,

541
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: we tested this thing and it doesn't seem to be

542
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: impossible because we're getting a small amount of thrust. What. Yeah,

543
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: So that made a lot of explosions in minds and

544
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: physics all across the world. Yeah, it was. And then

545
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: it got a wider press coverage. Yes, it got a

546
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: lot of press, and a lot of that press, you know,

547
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: skimmed over some of the important details, you know, you know,

548
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: they were headlines and wired for example saying NASA validates

549
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: impossible space drive, which I'm sure people at NASA woke

550
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 1: up in his sweat over when they read that. Unless

551
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: unless it's true, then it's like, oh, we'll take the credit. Yeah, exactly,

552
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: And Popular Mechanics wrote an article with the title was

553
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: space engine breaks the laws of physics. You see clickbait?

554
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: Do you see clickbait? And so it was very exciting. Right,

555
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: people are like, maybe this is true, and maybe it

556
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that this drive only gives you a tiny

557
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: little force because you can scale it up or we

558
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: can improve whatever we can, you know, pass it onto

559
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: the engineers and said, we've proved it possible. Make it work, right,

560
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: make it better, more make it more efficient. Yeah. Also,

561
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're on a toothpick on your way

562
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: to Alpha Centauri, you know you've got time. So even

563
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: a little push with health, yeah, even a little push,

564
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: a little constant push without the need for propellant to

565
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: get you to very high speeds. That's the whole idea

566
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: of a solar sale. Solar sales do not provide a

567
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: lot of acceleration. It's just a long, constant acceleration without

568
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: the need for a really heavy rocket can get you

569
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: up to significant fractions of the speed of light. Right, yeah,

570
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: all right, well this sounds maybe like it's not impossible. Daniel,

571
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: Now I'm really intrigued here. I mean, are we going

572
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: to be on our way to alphastri pretty soon or

573
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: is that impossible? So let's get into whether it actually

574
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: can work and what's going on with these impossible physics.

575
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: But first let's take a quick break. All right, Daniel,

576
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: it seems as we left at NASA, or at least

577
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: some people who work at NASA validated this impossible space drive,

578
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: this crazy idea that somehow seems to violate the laws

579
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: of physics, but that could maybe get us to another

580
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: galaxy or another star. So what's going on here, Daniel?

581
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: Is this really possible or is there something here we're

582
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: not seeing? Well, you have to sort of hold your

583
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: your enthusiasm in check and apply your skeptical mind, like

584
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: we'd love for this to work, and we wanted to work.

585
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: In that sense, we have a bit of a conflict

586
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: of interest. It's just like when you listen to a

587
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: story about aliens. If you want it to be true,

588
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: then you're gonna be less skeptical and you're gonna like

589
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: gloss over problems in the story. So you gotta put

590
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: aside your plans for Alpha Centauri and just ask yourself,

591
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: like does this make sense? And the first thing to

592
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: think about is whether the experimental results are done carefully

593
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: enough right, because this is a very small effect. Like

594
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: what they measure is, you know, the equivalent of like

595
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: a fly landing on this thing. So you have to

596
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: remove all other possible sources of experimental area. And when

597
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: you dig into these experiments, they're not done with a

598
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: kind of care that you need in order to really

599
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: establish that this small thrust comes from radiation pressure inside

600
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: the drive and not something else like the air conditioner

601
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: maybe was hitting on your device and pushing it a

602
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: little bit. You know that you're not far from the truth.

603
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: Like when you turn this thing on, it heats up

604
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: because you're pounding microwaves inside of it. And if it

605
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: heats up, then it's going to cause air currents around it.

606
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: And so those thermal currents, if it's not in a

607
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: really really good vacuum, those thermal currents might be what

608
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: providing this this micro thrust. Well, I'm trying to trying

609
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: to get a picture here. So somebody actually built this.

610
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: This marketing executive built this device, this machine, and it

611
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: got tested by some people who work in nest, so

612
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: like you know, like this actually happened. It is actually happening.

613
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: There was a room with people from NASA there with

614
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: clipboards and I'm sure they were wearing white lab coats

615
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: and safety goggles and protective helmets, and like, I like,

616
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 1: this thing is humming, it's like it's running, and they

617
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: measured it a force, but you're saying, maybe it could

618
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: have been something else. Yeah, it doesn't have to be

619
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: a force from the drive. You have to remove all

620
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: other sources of experimental error to convince yourself the force

621
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: came from the drive. So the first test they did

622
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: weren't even in a vacuum. So who even knows if

623
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: those results are just due to the air getting warm

624
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: around it and differentially pushing on it, because one side

625
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: of it is all right, well, um, I mean it

626
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: sounds like you just kind of need to replicate the experiment.

627
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: Has anybody tried or nobody wants to touch this? Ye,

628
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: Other labs have tried, Like there's a lab in Germany

629
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: and a lab in China, and some of these labs

630
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: can't reproduce the results, like they just don't see any thrust.

631
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: Other labs have seen rust. But then they showed that

632
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: this thrust was actually just an interaction between the wires

633
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: that lead up to the e M drive and the

634
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 1: Earth's magnetic few What yeah, oh, I see the wires

635
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: that create the microwaves, not the wires like leading up

636
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: to the device. So no, the wires leading up to

637
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: the device, the ones that like, you know, power this stuff.

638
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: And so we're talking about really small effects here. You know,

639
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: it's like you breathe on this thing, and that's a

640
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: bigger effect than the thrust that they're measuring. And so

641
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: it's very easy to make a mistake. And you know,

642
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: you read these papers, they don't seem very carefully done.

643
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: And I said, they don't give you confidence in the

644
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: experimental setup. It's it's sort of like remember the cold

645
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: fusion thing, Like these guys measured some heat production, but

646
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: there are all sorts of uncertainties and errors and other

647
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: ways that could confuse the results that were potentially bigger

648
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: than the signal they measured. So the signal these people

649
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: are measuring is smaller than the noise in their system. Right,

650
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: you have to be super extra careful. Right like when

651
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: you guys built the I Go gravitational wave telescope, you know,

652
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: you had to bury it on the ground, You had

653
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: to put in the middle of nowhere. You had to

654
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: track any truck passing by just to make sure that

655
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: that wasn't causing the signal exactly. They can't just build

656
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: advice and then it shakes and they say, hey, gravitational waves. Right.

657
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: They need to show that they're not sensitive to all

658
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: the sources of noise that are nearby. And that's what

659
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: this these folks have not done. And there's some really

660
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: concerning things about the results, like sometimes they get thrust

661
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: even if the drive is backwards, and they get they

662
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: get thrust the same direction. Yeah, at the level sort

663
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 1: of experimental rigor that we're talking about, maybe it's mind control, Daniel.

664
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: It operates on wishes and unicorns, like if you wanted

665
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: to work, it works. Yeah, And so I would not

666
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: say that the results are conclusive, you know, I would

667
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: not say that this thing generates thrust. Well, I mean

668
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: press the actually flipped it around, you know, like that

669
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: shows a little bit of experimental worker. Yeah. I wonder

670
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: if that was on purpose or they just sort of like,

671
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: you know, put it in backwards. Oh man, we're throwing

672
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of shade at these NASA scientists, and these

673
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: are not NASA scientists. These are people at NASA, right,

674
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: NASA did not stand behind this results done in their

675
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: spare time in their garage now with official white lap

676
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: coats from NASA. They bought it off the internet. And

677
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to imagine how this thing could

678
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: actually work. Right, just because you have photons bouncing around

679
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: inside a bottle doesn't mean that it's going to get pushed, right.

680
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: It violates the law of conservation momentum. You can't, right,

681
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: you can't put yourselves up from your bootstraps. Right. If

682
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: you stand inside a box in empty space, and you

683
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: throw a ball against one wall of the box, Yeah,

684
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: that ball applies a force to the wall, But to

685
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: throw the ball you apply to force the other direction

686
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: to the floor. Right, So you can't push a box

687
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: from the inside, right, as far as we know, As

688
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: far as we that's that's what we how, that's how

689
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: we think the univerous works. But as you say, we

690
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: kind of have to keep an open eye, which unfortunately

691
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: kind of leaves you open to these crazy ideas. Ye.

692
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: And so the guys who wrote this paper, they know this,

693
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: and they understand that this thing shouldn't work, but they

694
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: are really Yeah, but they are seeing a result. And

695
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: so in the paper they put this really sort of

696
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: amazing claim and I just have to read it to

697
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: you verbabion because it's I don't want to paraphrase. They

698
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: say that their drive quote is producing a force that

699
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomena, and therefore

700
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma. Well,

701
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: that makes sense now, I totally get it. I was

702
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: totally waiting for somebody to bring up the quantum vacuum

703
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: virtual plasma. Obviously everyone well, I mean, I guess the

704
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: typical person like me wouldn't be able to tell the

705
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: difference if that's something that's real or not. Well, you

706
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: know there is a thing which is the quantum vacuum. Right.

707
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: We know that empty space is not empty, that it

708
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: is filled with energy, right, And we talked about virtual

709
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: particles in a recent episode, right, Like virtual quantum particles exist. Yeah,

710
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: because this energy that's in empty space can turn into particles,

711
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: and these particles live for a very short amount of

712
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: time and then they turn back into energy or another

713
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: kind of particle or whatever. So there is this sort

714
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: of energy available This is like frothing foam. But this

715
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: is not a question of having a source of energy, right,

716
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: There's already energy in this drive. This is a question

717
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: of having something to push off, right, This is a

718
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: question of momentum. Right, But energy, I mean energy is mass?

719
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: Could I say that like energy is mass, like solar

720
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: sales work on photons which have no mass. Yes, but

721
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: this quantum vacuum doesn't have like a rest frame. You

722
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: can't push against it. You can't like change the net

723
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: momentum of the quantum vacuum. That doesn't make any sense.

724
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,240
Speaker 1: What could I maybe capture those energy of empty I'm

725
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: rooting for these NASA scientists, so I'm playing devil's advocate.

726
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: Could you like somehow capture the energy of empty space

727
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 1: and like use it, you know, converted to mass and

728
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: push it one way? Is that possible? Well? You know, Orry,

729
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: I think you've thought about this more deeply than the

730
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: guy who wrote that paper. But think about what you're suggesting.

731
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: You say, capture the energy of empty space and then

732
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: converted into mass and throw it in one direction? Right,

733
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: That would mean it has now some sort of net momentum,

734
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: whereas it didn't have that before, and that's the problem

735
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: is that this quantum vacuum has no rest frame. It

736
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: has no like net momentum which you can capture unless

737
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: you're going to break the law of conservation of momentum.

738
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 1: Then there's no way to gain momentum for this device.

739
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: But I guess you know, is a law of conservation

740
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: of momentum related to the law of conservation of energy.

741
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: They're sort of related, right, They are sort of related.

742
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: In particle physics, we think of energy momentum together. We

743
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: put it together actually into like a four dimensional vector,

744
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: the way that you have like a four dimensional space

745
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: time three dimensions of space and one of time. We

746
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: think of four momentum three dimensions of momentum from one

747
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: of energy. And so these things are related certainly, so

748
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: that the whole vector has to be conserved, but they're

749
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: conserved independently, like momentum and x is conserved separately from

750
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: momentum and wise conserved separately from momentum and z, and

751
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: then energy conservation is also separate. So they can they're related,

752
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: but they're independent. Makes are very powerful constraint, right all right, Well,

753
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: their ideas and maybe it's tapping into this impossible drivers.

754
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 1: Maybe tapping into this quantum vacuum, virtual plasma or energy.

755
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: Is that possible or is that total bunk? I think

756
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: it's total bunk. And you know, I did some reading

757
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: about this, and Sean Carroll says, quote, there is no

758
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: such thing as a quantum vacuum virtual plasma. So that

759
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: should be a tip off right there. There is a

760
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: quantum vacuum, but is nothing like a plasma, you know.

761
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: So he's pointing out there the use of the word

762
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: plasma means that there may be not even really understanding

763
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. And I think of the way

764
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: you're imagining it is like, can you push off against

765
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: this plasma? Can you like impart some momentum on it

766
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: the way you can like with a rowboat, Right, you're

767
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: like rowing against the water, and you're pushing against the water,

768
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: so the water gets momentum one way, you get momentum

769
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: the other way. I guess maybe it is a good analogy.

770
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: Like if you're on in the middle of the ocean,

771
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: you can't just like with a bucket pick up some water.

772
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: Well maybe you could. Yeah, So you can't treat the

773
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,399
Speaker 1: quantum foam like you can the ocean. You can't row

774
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: your way through the quantum foam, because all the energy

775
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: there is virtual. It's like borrowed momentarily and it needs

776
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: to return. It's not real energy in that way, it's

777
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: a it's quantum fluctuations. There's a difference between these virtual

778
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: energy particles and the real particles, and so there's no

779
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: like the way you're imagining it, Like the ocean has

780
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: a rest frame, right, It's like there is an ocean.

781
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 1: It's a zero velocity in some frame. That's not true

782
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,240
Speaker 1: for this quantum vacuum. Right, It's an inherent property of space.

783
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: It has no rest frame, the way that space itself

784
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: has no absolute zero. For you to be able to

785
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: row your way through space would mean that space had

786
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: like some rest frame that we've never discovered before and

787
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: would violate special relativity. All right, well worth a shot, Daniel,

788
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: Totally worth a shot. I mean, I only get to

789
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: do physics two hours a week, so I'm shooting for

790
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: the moon here with the impossible growing through space. That

791
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: they'll be the name of my engine. That would be

792
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: the name of your memoirs. Right, the space or space

793
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: or or maybe it's just nonsense, um, but it's totally

794
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: worth a shot. And it's worth these guys thinking about it,

795
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: and I love the ambition, you know. They say, all right,

796
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: we built this drive. We agree it shouldn't work, but

797
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: it kind of does. So maybe we discovered something new

798
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: and crazy about the units. Like that's cool, but it

799
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: has to also actually kind of make sense right well,

800
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: you know, but like you said, you have to be

801
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: skeptical but also keep an open mind, like maybe that

802
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: it is kind of you have to admit a little

803
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: bit possible for you know, our ID is about conservation

804
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: momentum and the vacuum to maybe be a little off

805
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: of maybe there is a little bit of a room

806
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: there to maybe do something that seems impossible certainly, And

807
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: we don't understand empty space, and we don't understand this

808
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: quantum vacuum, and there may be a way to interact

809
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: with it that allows you to capture momentum in a

810
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: way that we can't imagine right now. That's true. I

811
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: don't think this e M drive is doing that. I

812
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: think this AM drive is just a fun device in

813
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: a lab somewhere. I see. It seems unlikely that a

814
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: little copper cone will somehow here's the reality of the

815
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: laws of physics. Yeah, because they've made no connection between

816
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: how they've built this thing and this quantum vactual virtual plasma.

817
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: It's like saying, hey, who ate my chocolate chip cookies?

818
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe it was the quantum vacuum virtual plasma, right,

819
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: Like why not? You can't just That's what my kids

820
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: say all the time. It's not just an escape clause

821
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: for everything, right, It's not that some of your physics lawyer,

822
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: can you get you at of jail? No matter what

823
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: you need like an actual mechanism of real explanation for

824
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: how this plasma uh, which you know people think doesn't

825
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: even exist, how this virtual vacuum is somehow giving you momentum? Right?

826
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: Why was I late to this podcast recording because you know,

827
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: the quantum plasma was pushing against me and I lost

828
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: my space or and that's why. Also I had to

829
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: finish the Mission Impossible five on TV. So all right,

830
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: So I'd say, overall, this thing is most likely hype

831
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: and not going to lead to anything. But I encourage

832
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: people out there experiment in your garage trying to make

833
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: up a new drive, because you know, I want us

834
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: to get to Alpha Centauri. I don't want to go myself,

835
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: but I want humans to get to explore. You don't

836
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: want to ride that toothpick. You want somebody else, probably

837
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: smaller than you, not a lot of lakes. You know,

838
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: until we figure something out, it's gonna be it is

839
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: gonna be impossible to make it to Alpha Centauri within

840
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 1: a lifetime or a few lifetimes, right, I mean we

841
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: need we need an idea like this, like a crazy idea,

842
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: otherwise we'll never get there. Well, I'm banking on solar sales.

843
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: I think we build a big laser and a really

844
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 1: big sale and you can take a really light craft

845
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: and accelerated to a high speed. So if I was

846
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: investing money in interstellar transport, I think solar sales are

847
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: currently the best end. Okay, how about a quantum plasma sale?

848
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: That sounds impossible? All right, Well, we hope you enjoyed

849
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: this little trip down impossible lane. And two, it's it's

850
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: kind of amazing to think that maybe there could be

851
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: devices out there that break the laws of physics. This

852
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: one seems like a little bit impossible, but you know,

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00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: it is sort of still out there that we don't

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00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 1: understand the laws of physics enough to know whether these

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00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: things are really conclusive or not right. That's right. We

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00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: don't know, and we should always keep an open mind

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00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: to what might be out there. Sometimes people discover crazy

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00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: stuff when they're trying to do something else. There's lots

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00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: of times in the history physics when things have been

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00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: discovered by accident. And so while I don't think that

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00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: this drive has cracked open the secrets of the quantum

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00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: virtual plasma, keep experimenting, folks, keep thinking up ideas. You

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00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: may stumble across something amazing. It could be one of

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00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: our listeners who breaks the laws of and we get

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00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: one that's right, and then you can represent them in

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00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: the cosmological court of impossibility. That sounds great. My fees

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Speaker 1: one percent of your Nobel prize. Is that like a

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00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: nibble of an apple, that's just the core? Yeah, all right, Well,

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Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that, and keep thinking of the impossible.

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Speaker 1: See you next time. Thanks for listening, and remember that.

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00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of

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00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. More podcast from my Heart Radio visit

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00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen

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00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Yeah,