1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 3: It's a podcast that looks at radical history to help 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 3: all of us figure out how to live in a 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 3: radical present and build a radical future. 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and for the. 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 3: Past month or two, I've been investigating the fairly successful 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 3: fight against neoliberalism that activists from across the world waged. 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 2: At the turn of the twenty first century. 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: But before I even tell you about that, I need 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 3: to tell you that we have a producer named Sophie 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 3: who isn't on the call today, and we don't have 13 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: a guest today because this is one of those Margaret's 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 3: talking to a microphone in a podcast closet by herself episodes. 15 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 3: We also have an audio engineer named Eva hi Eva, 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 3: and our theme music was written for us by unwoman. 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: You don't actually have to go back and listen to 18 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 3: all of the parts that we've done about neoliberalism if 19 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 3: you just want to learn about the topic of today, 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,639 Speaker 3: the Battle of Seattle. But there's a lot more context 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 3: if you go back and listen to those episodes. And 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: I love context, kind of like I don't know, jo 23 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 3: all grew up with Oscar the Grouch singing, I love trash. 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 3: It's like that, only I like context. I also kind 25 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: of like trash, but that's unrelated. We started off by 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 3: talking about what neoliberalism is, and in short, neoliberalism is 27 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 3: a system by which the rich people in developed nations 28 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: strip resources from underdeveloped nations and workers within their own countries. 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 3: Then we talked for a while about the Zapatistas, the 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: indigenous rebels of Chiapas, Mexico, who use a diversity of 31 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: tactics and ideologies to build autonomy in Southeast Mexico. I 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 3: promised you that they helped bring together an international assembly 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 3: of grassroots organizations to help fight against neoliberalism, and this 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 3: week we're going to talk about some of the fruits 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: of that organizing. Then last week we talked about the 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: Black Bloc, a tactic developed by a timeonomists and anarchists 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: in Western Germany. Essentially squatters and anti authoritarian activists trying 38 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: to build a better egalitarian society found themselves under attack 39 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: by the state and capitalism. 40 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: Rather than rely on what they had. 41 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: Seen as the possibilities presented to them in Europe at 42 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 3: the time, which was on one hand, you had mass 43 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 3: mobilizations that use rigid principles of nonviolence, and on the 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: other hand, the other option that had been presented to 45 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: them as available was underground, clandestine direct action, like what 46 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: many urban guerrillas were doing. 47 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: During that time. 48 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: Instead, these activists forged a third path in which they 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 3: made themselves hard to arrest and hard to prosecute, and 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: then went ahead and did their direct action in the 51 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: light of day for all the world to see by 52 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 3: wearing all black and disguising their identities. That tactic, among others, 53 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: was used extensively throughout the alter globalization movement that we've 54 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: been focusing on, and so this week I want to 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: talk about the opening salvo of the alter globalization movement, 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 3: the successful shut down of the World Trade Organization's summit 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 3: in Seattle, which took place on November thirtieth, nineteen ninety nine. 58 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 3: While it was the Black Cloud anarchists who captured media headlines, 59 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: the protest was organized by tens of thousands of people 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 3: from across a wide range of movements and ideologies, including 61 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: plenty of not Black Cloud anarchists. The shortest version of 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: the story that I can think of is this, When 63 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 3: the World Trade Organization met in Seattle, a new movement 64 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: of movements stepped onto the world stage. Tens of thousands 65 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: of people from all sorts of social movements like the 66 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: anti war movement, environmentalist movement, global justice, and labor showed 67 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: up and blockaded the site of the conference. They held 68 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: back multiple police departments and held strong. Six hundred people 69 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: were arrested. A state of emergency was declared, and the 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 3: people won, and the World Trade Organization meeting was shut down, 71 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: and the World Trade Organization was no longer the rising 72 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: star of geopolitics, and its influence weighed dramatically, while most 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 3: of the subsequent protests that happened in the altglobalization movement 74 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: were less tactically successful. In many ways, we'd already won 75 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: the war, so let's talk about how people did it. 76 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: We've been talking for a while about some of the 77 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: early altra globalization protests, mostly throughout Europe, at which tens 78 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: of thousands of people demonstrated against letting unelected decision making 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 3: bodies determine how the world's resources should be managed. In 80 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety five, the World Trade Organization was formed. It 81 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: was built originally after World War Two. There was this 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: agreement among a lot of countries called the General Agreement 83 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 3: on Tariffs and Trade, which sought to foster a tariff 84 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: free trade around the world, and in nineteen nine, the 85 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 3: World Trade Organization was founded out of that with much 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: more like actual attempts at systemic power and things like that. 87 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: I've mentioned this in previous episodes, but it's worth repeating. 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: Global trade and economic policy are both really complicated things, 89 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 3: and essentially it's possible for right wing forces to do 90 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: bad shit with all sorts of positions. 91 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: The reason I bring this. 92 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: Up like, right now, what we're looking at the world's 93 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 3: most influential economy, The US is suddenly throwing up trade 94 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 3: barriers and tariffs, and this is greatly disrupting world trade 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: and it is causing all kinds of havoc that is 96 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 3: affecting poor people. My guess is less that Trump and 97 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: all those people are doing this to try and build 98 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 3: up a strong local economy and more that they're just 99 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: thieves who've broken into the building and are stripping the 100 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 3: wire out of the walls of the country. That's my guess, 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 3: but I don't know. But either way, being pro tariff 102 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: is currently the right way position. Twenty years ago, being 103 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 3: pro free trade was. It wasn't just the right wing position. 104 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: It was the consensus between the neoliberal Democratic Party and 105 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: the neo conservative Republican Party. All people who were capitalists 106 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 3: were in favor of free trade, and both political parties 107 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 3: were very adamantly capitalist when all of this stuff went on. Essentially, 108 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: you can use free trade the lack of tariffs to 109 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 3: remove the economic protections that smaller economies might want to 110 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: put up to help keep international companies from basically strip 111 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 3: mining them, both literally and figuratively. One of the main 112 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 3: ways that neoliberalism destroys developing economies is by using predatory 113 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 3: lending to trap countries into debt and then force those 114 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: countries to accept something called structural adjustment programs to rewrite 115 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 3: their own laws, to remove environmental and labor protections, to 116 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: basically streamline their economies to funnel money back to the 117 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: lenders stuff. I think it's really important to understand this 118 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 3: right now, because right now free trade looks like guid 119 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 3: right when the fascists are attempting to do trade protectionism 120 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: in the US, and it's just it really matters in 121 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: what context people are developing trade policies. Anyway, The World 122 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: Trade Organization was formed the idea that it would meet 123 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: every two years. It's headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland, but it 124 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: would meet somewhere new For each summit. Leaders from countries 125 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: around the world would get together and discuss how to 126 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: reduce trade barriers and in the process enrich the richest 127 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 3: people in the world. Obviously, that's not what everyone went 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: there to do. People from poorer countries weren't like, yes, 129 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 3: please destroy us, but were forced into compromising positions. Let's 130 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: say the people running the wto the World Trade Organization, 131 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: they probably don't see themselves as cartoon villains, but instead 132 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: as people who foster global. 133 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: Cooperation and togetherness or whatever. 134 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: If they actually meant that, if they actually meant an 135 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: interconnected and internationalist world, they would focus on allowing the 136 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: free movement of people across borders instead of the free 137 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 3: movement of capital across borders. The difference between those two 138 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: things is very, very important. One of the primary slogans 139 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: of the alter globalization movement is people over profit. For decades, 140 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: activists have been calling for what is called fair trade 141 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: in contrast to free trade. Basically, the argument is that 142 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 3: trade shouldn't cause countries to lose environmental and labor protections, 143 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: but instead develop those protections, people have been working to 144 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: develop supply chains and pay fair prices to producers and 145 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: emphasize working with producers and distributors that treat their workers fairly. 146 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 3: So if you like buy coffee, you know that the 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: person who grew the coffee isn't living in a horrible life, 148 00:08:58,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: and maybe you have to pay a little bit more 149 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 3: for them, and that seems fine to me. Ideally, you're 150 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: talking about trying to buy from people who are cooperatives 151 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: like so that the workers actually own the means of production. 152 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 3: And I suppose we'll probably return to this point fair 153 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 3: trade sometime during this series, or at least I certainly 154 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: hope we do. But these ideas around fair trade have 155 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 3: been around it since at least the nineteen sixties, if 156 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 3: not the nineteen forties and the nineteen fifties. And do 157 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: you know, wells who treats their workers fairly some places? 158 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: I don't know whether it's the ads or not, because 159 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 3: we don't vet that, because we can't because we actually 160 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: don't get to pick our ads. But here they are anyway, 161 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: and we're back in January nineteen ninety nine, Seattle was 162 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: picked for the every two years meeting of the WTO, 163 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 3: and this is the first time a major neoliberal summit 164 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: was happening on US soil. This was also the Millennium Talks, 165 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 3: and it was meant to be Millennial Round of Talks. 166 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 3: You'd think I would have put that in my script, 167 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: but I didn't. But it basically was like these are 168 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: going to be a big deal. And there's also a 169 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: lot of like, hey, we're going to finally start listening 170 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: to the smaller countries, and a lot of promises were 171 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: being made by the WTO that people were skeptical of. 172 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: By February, activists were starting to say things like, I 173 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: wonder if we can just shut the WTO down. By 174 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: spring they figured out a rough idea of how they 175 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 3: would do it, and by summer this was more developed. 176 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: They were like, we're going to build an incredibly wide 177 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 3: series of coalitions, unheardedly wide coalitions across diverse social movements, 178 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: and then coordinate mass direct action to shut the meetings down. 179 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: And when I say coalitions, I mean that there wasn't 180 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 3: one group, not even one group of groups, coordinating this 181 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 3: whole thing. There were actually a lot of different forces 182 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 3: working together and against each other in complicated ways, and 183 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: that means we're going to talk about them because I 184 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: like talking about that kind of stuff. I feel like 185 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 3: it's like worth understanding how people organize things. I think 186 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: that when we learned from history, we can't just be like, 187 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: they did a cool thing. It's like really worth getting 188 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: into the recipes, right, It's worth getting into how they 189 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 3: did things. I'm not saying we should do things like 190 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 3: these folks did things. We're in a very different situation, 191 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 3: very different context. But I think there's a lot of 192 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 3: really specific lessons that can be learned and applied. There 193 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: were maybe five different groups or five coalitions or what 194 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 3: have you that started organizing on this, both separately and 195 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 3: in tandem with each other, and usually people only talk 196 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: about two of them, but I'm a taoo five of them. 197 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 3: One of the ones that had very little impact in 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 3: the end was Okay, this is guy Ralph Nader. He 199 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 3: was famous at the time as a consumer protection advocate 200 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: and a Green Party presidential candidate, and he ran an 201 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: organization called Public Citizen, and in that group put together 202 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: a group called People for Fair Trade SLASH, the network 203 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 3: opposed to the WTO, which is too long of a name. 204 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: If you have a slash in your name, there's probably 205 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: some slashes that are earned. This one wasn't. You should 206 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: have picked one or the other if you ask me, 207 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 3: And everywhere people just call it people for Fair Trade. 208 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 3: This coalition, which involved more mainstream nonprofits NGOs non governmental organizations, 209 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 3: has been less focused on in everything I've read, and 210 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 3: they intentionally tried to keep some distance, mostly not antagonistically 211 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 3: from the more direct action focused part of the organizing. 212 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 2: So that's them. 213 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 3: Then there was the biggest one by the numbers, There 214 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,599 Speaker 3: was the labor movement, and they mobilized between twenty and 215 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: forty thousand people. Those numbers are very different from each other, 216 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: but I've read both. While all sorts of mainstream and 217 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 3: radical unions did show up, there was actually also a 218 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 3: split within the labor movement around this. The mainstream labor 219 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 3: position was basically, we want a seat at the table. 220 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: In these negotiations, and. 221 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 3: If you don't give it to us, then will shut 222 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 3: you down, although realistically they were like, if you don't 223 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 3: give it to us, then we'll have a big protest 224 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: march that is symbolic. The more radical labor unions were like, 225 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 3: actually we hate this corporate greed shit. But they were 226 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 3: still part of this labor organizing. Overall, labor organized independently 227 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 3: and they planned mass marches and not direct action. And 228 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: the Clinton administration the president at the time of the 229 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: earlier Clinton Bill Clinton, they referred to the labor march 230 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: as the legitimate protests compared to the criminal descent of 231 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: the direct actionists that we're going to talk about shortly. 232 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: So these are presented as the good protesters. But people 233 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 3: oversimplify this stuff all the time. I think that a 234 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 3: lot of narratives around the WTO downplay the importance of 235 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 3: labor and the struggle. The march in Seattle was largely symbolic, 236 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 3: at least it was intended to be largely symbolic, although 237 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 3: actually we'll get to it. There's the rank and file 238 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 3: of labor was a lot more radical than the organizers 239 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 3: by and large. But probably the most economically impactful part 240 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: of protests against the WTO was what the Longshoreman Union did. 241 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 3: They shut down every port on the West Coast from 242 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: Los Angeles to Alaska, and also the local taxi drivers 243 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 3: in Seattle went on strike, and the firefighters union basically 244 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: police were like, hey can you turn the hoses on 245 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 3: the protesters, and the firefighters union was like, we're not 246 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: going to do that. That's not going to happen. My 247 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: argument here is that labor is cool. Then there's a 248 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 3: coalition that sort of spawned the next coalition. So it's 249 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: like a two and one. When I said there's five, 250 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 3: it's blurry. There's a group called People's Global Action PGA, 251 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: which got its start in nineteen ninety eight at one 252 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: of the Zapatista and Quentros, the encounters, which were global 253 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: meetings of grassroots move These have been happening for a 254 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 3: couple of years at that point. I believe this was 255 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 3: the third one. You'd think, I know, it's in my notes, 256 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: but not in my script. And the nineteen ninety eight 257 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: in Quentro was in Geneva, Switzerland, which is actually the 258 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: same place as the WTO is headquartered. And I don't 259 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 3: know whether that was on purpose or not. It probably was, 260 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 3: but no one I read said that specifically. At this meeting, 261 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 3: four hundred representatives from seventy one countries launched a global organization, 262 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: People's Global Action. And this was largely people from where 263 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: you would say the developing nations or the global South. 264 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: The terminology around this is shifting. We it's all bad, 265 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 3: it's all whatever. Anyway Pga chose. I've seen it referred 266 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 3: to as an anarchist inspired organizational structure. I suspect that 267 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 3: was part of it, but I would actually suspect it 268 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 3: as like primarily as Apatista inspired horizontal organizational structure, which 269 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 3: would make it anarchistic, but actually developed from indigenous practices 270 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 3: in Southeast Mexico, although at some point, actually I think 271 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: we covered it in the magone episodes. Actually a lot 272 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: of anarchist practices in Europe did actually come from indigenous 273 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 3: practices in Mexico, from a Greek doctor who went there 274 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 3: early in the movement. But that's besides the point. I 275 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: get really nerdy about the roots of different practices in 276 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: social movements. So they chose this horizontal organizational structure in 277 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 3: which no one group or person could control the actions 278 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 3: of the entire group. And this is interesting to me 279 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: because this seems quite natural and logical. When you have 280 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: a group of peers who come together to interact, it's horizontal, 281 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: like you don't assume among your friend group that one 282 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: person is in charge, maybe like they're in charge for 283 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: the night. 284 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: They're the one who planned it or whatever, right, but. 285 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: They're not the boss. You don't have bosses among your friends. 286 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 3: And the same is true on a larger scale, By 287 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: and large, when countries interact with other countries, they assumed 288 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 3: that the other is sovereign and equal. Countries can't tell 289 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 3: one another what to do, except when they use force, 290 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 3: like military or economic force. Like theoretically you're talking to 291 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 3: your peer now, not in a super egalitarian way. Obviously, 292 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: countries are constantly at war with each other and like 293 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 3: doing weird diplomatic stuff and all of that, but it's 294 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: still like there's this assumption that this person sort of 295 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 3: should be get to be your equal. So a movement 296 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 3: built out of movements naturally abides by a horizontal structure 297 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: in which every movement has a right to be heard. 298 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 3: And that's how People's Global Action worked. So they formed 299 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety eight, and they met again in Bangalore, 300 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: India in August nineteen ninety nine, and they were like, yeah, 301 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: we endorse actions all over the world in solidarity with 302 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 3: the Seattle protests. And they also sent a caravan of 303 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: people to Seattle. They also and I think we'll talk 304 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: about this a little bit. 305 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: And they also. 306 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 3: Organized a lot of the precursor or inspired a lot 307 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 3: of the precursor protests, but we'll talk about that in 308 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 3: proper zapatista form. When they came together and put together 309 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 3: a caravan of people going to Seattle, it came from 310 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 3: the east coast and it stopped in twenty cities to 311 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: talk to people about how corporate globalization had impacted them. 312 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: And the reason it's in proper zapatista. 313 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 3: Form is those appetistas are constantly going on these like 314 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: listening and talking tours where they travel around place to 315 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 3: place and just interact with people directly, which is cool. 316 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,239 Speaker 3: So all of these internationals on this caravan are like, 317 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 3: we're down to go get arrested in a foreign country 318 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 3: to stop this shit, which is a serious decision to make, 319 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 3: but this was a serious issue for them. Then there's 320 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: the main group of people who organized the direct action 321 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 3: to shut down the World Trade Organization, and they're sort 322 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 3: of the main characters in this week's tale, or maybe 323 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: that's because of a bias in my sources, but you 324 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 3: know who's a reoccurring side character, and not just this 325 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 3: week's tale, but the entirety of cool people who did 326 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 3: cool stuff. That's right. It is products and services the 327 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 3: only real through line on this show, the only thing 328 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 3: that makes you feel connected with the history. Nay, the 329 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,479 Speaker 3: legacy of cool people who did cool stuff. 330 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: That's right. 331 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 3: The sponsors of this show the people we don't pick 332 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 3: and we're back, okay. The main group that organized the 333 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 3: direct action shut down the WTO it's called DAN. 334 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: Oh. 335 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 3: Daniell's not the editor anymore. That would have been funny anyway. 336 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: DAN stands for Direct Action Network, or more formally, the 337 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 3: Direct Action Network against Corporate Globalization. They decided that dan 338 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 3: AGG wasn't as good of a name. 339 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: They were right. 340 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 3: This organization is about as grassroots and scrappy of an 341 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 3: organization as they come. It was built from to author 342 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 3: Chris Dixon quote, a loose conglomeration of peace activists, anarchists, environmentalists, 343 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 3: international solidarity groups, and unaffiliated radicals, all interested in street 344 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: theater and or direct action during the WTO end quote. 345 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: What DAN offered was a clear and achievable vision for 346 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: what the protests could and in their view, should look like. 347 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: They should be art focused, and they should be non violent, 348 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 3: and they should be direct action. They were like, this 349 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 3: is not going to be boring. 350 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: And it's not going to be symbolic. It's going to be. 351 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 3: Colorful and artsy and also direct as hell, and our 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 3: goal is to shut this shit down. And they followed 353 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 3: through on that promise. It was dan best as I 354 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: can tell, that innovated the whole. All radical protests should 355 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 3: be filled with just absolutely gigantic and dramatic puppets vibe 356 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 3: that defined so much of the Alter Globalization era, especially 357 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 3: in the US, I think, but I could be more 358 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 3: certain about things. I think that in Europe and Mexico, 359 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 3: the altglobalization protests were a bit more focused on direct 360 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 3: confrontation with the police and less focused on art. But 361 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 3: I might be misreading things, and maybe on change my 362 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 3: mind as I continue this series. The alto globalization movement 363 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: is something that I know a lot about, sort of 364 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 3: instinctively because I was involved in it. But it's been 365 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 3: interesting to actually sit down and really read all of 366 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 3: the information on it instead of just talking to people 367 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 3: in the streets or reading the discourse of people arguing 368 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 3: about this, that or the other. It's been interesting to 369 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 3: try and read it as history. Interesting is a strange word. 370 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 3: It's so strange to read about a movement you're involved 371 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: in his history. I was not involved in the WTO 372 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 3: protests and Seattle. 373 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 2: I was too young. I barely knew about them. 374 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 3: Dan came together when so it started with a San 375 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: Francisco group of art anarchists called Art and Revolution. This 376 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 3: was part of a West Coast network of groups with 377 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 3: that name who did artsy direct action in the late nineties. 378 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 3: And Art and Revolution I think there were the people who, 379 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 3: in like February, were like, hey, what if we just 380 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 3: did this thing? And it took a while for people 381 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: to be like, yeah, totally, let's do the thing. By 382 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: June they started having conference calls with folks from around 383 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: the West Coast talking about direct action in street theater. 384 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 3: They were heavily inspired by the Reclaim the Streets protests 385 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: that had been happening, especially the Carnival against Capital that 386 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 3: had taken place in England the year before, and the 387 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: Carnival against Capital is this big artsy mass direct action. 388 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 3: The vibe that people were. 389 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 2: Moving to in protests at that point was. 390 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 3: Basically they were like, we want a global street party. 391 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: We want to reclaim our cities and streets as common 392 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: property and they called this movement Reclaimed the Streets. And 393 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 3: this movement was set up by and you probably guessed 394 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 3: it because I hinted at this people's global action and 395 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 3: therefore sprung up from the organizing. 396 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: Done by the Zapatistas. 397 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 3: Some of the initial folks on the DAN conference calls 398 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 3: where Canadian organizers who'd just done some shit the year 399 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 3: before in Vancouver too, and they have these conference calls 400 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 3: and then they take the proposal to a group called 401 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 3: Global Exchange, which is like a fair trade organization, and 402 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 3: they all agree, all right, yes, there should be decentralized 403 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 3: artsy direct action, but it needed to be focused around 404 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 3: a specific plan with specific dates and times and locations. 405 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 3: In order to be effective. You can't just say hey, 406 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 3: everyone show up and stop this. You need to be like, 407 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 3: here's how we're going to stop it. Here is a 408 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 3: decentralized framework for people to plug into. And I think 409 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 3: the idea of building a framework is the core idea 410 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 3: of decentralized organizing. And sometimes people who advocate for centralized 411 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 3: organizing think that decentralized organizing is just a like, ah, 412 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 3: everyone do what they want. And sometimes, unfortunately people believe 413 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 3: in decentralized organizing also think that, but it's actually about 414 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: building of framework collectively that other people can plug into 415 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 3: and hang their actions on. So Dan put out a call, 416 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: I'm going to quote it quote come to Seattle. It 417 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 3: is time to raise the social and political cost to 418 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 3: those who aim to increase the destruction and misery caused 419 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 3: by corporate globalization. As movements in other parts of the 420 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 3: world have, there is an incredible opportunity to use street theater, art, dance, music, 421 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 3: giant puppets, graffiti, art and theater, and nonviolent direct action 422 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 3: to simplify and dramatize the issues of corporate globalization and 423 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 3: to develop and spread new and creative forms of resistance. 424 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: This will help catalyze desperately needed mass movements in the 425 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 3: US and Canada capable of challenging global capital and making 426 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: radical change in social revolution. And that's a lofty goal, right. 427 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 3: We're going to use this moment to catalyze entirely new 428 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 3: mass movements with new energy in order to radically change society. 429 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 3: And they succeeded at a lot of this. They succeeded 430 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 3: at creating mass movements that were desperately needed that challenge 431 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: global capital and make radical change in social revolution. We 432 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 3: did not make a social revolution. That's a big one. 433 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 3: We didn't succeed at and so people can get kind 434 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 3: of hung up on that one. But on the other hand, 435 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: fascism is always trying to create a like global fascist state, 436 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 3: and they always fail at that too. Right, there's just 437 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 3: a give and take, and as long as we fight, 438 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: the other side doesn't win. I still dream of winning, 439 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 3: but winning isn't a static win condition anyway. Whatever, I'm offscript. 440 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 3: So Dan is calling for this thing, and they're like, 441 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: we should talk to the other people who are doing 442 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 3: this thing too, So they start talking to, for example, 443 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 3: the American Federation of Labor I think was probably the AFLCIO, 444 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: but actually I don't remember when the AFL became the AFLCIO. 445 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 3: I've had it on episodes before, but I just don't remember. 446 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 3: And I'm completely offscript. Dan started coordinating with labor, and 447 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 3: some folks that they talked to were like, yeah, that 448 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: sounds great, do your thing, and others were like, man, 449 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: you're gonna fuck our shit up. You should just stay 450 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: the fuck out of this. But Dan moved forward with 451 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 3: coalition building to greater or lesser success with these other 452 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 3: big groups I was talking about. They worked very well 453 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 3: with PGA, who they came out of. They also coordinated 454 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 3: loosely with people involved in public citizen who mostly wanted 455 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 3: to stay out of the whole thing. Meanwhile, by summer 456 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 3: DAN was expanding, bringing on some direct action activist groups 457 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 3: that are more like nonprofit right, like the Ruckus Society 458 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 3: and Rainforest Action Network. These are people who do like 459 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 3: banner hangs to draw attention to issues, imagine like green peace, 460 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: tight ideas. If you're in one of those groups that 461 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 3: you get really mad being compared to Greenpeace, I'm sorry. 462 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 3: They are distinguishable from that. They're a little bit more radical. 463 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 3: But they all got together at meetings to discuss the plan, 464 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 3: and they all consensed on we are going to call 465 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 3: for a specific date and time and location. And since 466 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 3: DAN was a meeting of equals, not a top down organization, 467 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: they had to work together as equals horizontally. The anarchists 468 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 3: who set the whole thing up did this a little 469 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 3: bit on purpose as a way to radicalize the more 470 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 3: traditional nonprofit activist groups and not like radicalize like get 471 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 3: them in trouble or make them do more direct action. 472 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 3: But actually the thing that's really radical. Well, I like 473 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 3: direct action, but the thing that's really radical is getting 474 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 3: people to confront the way that they make decisions internally 475 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 3: and getting people to look for structures that don't recreate 476 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 3: the systemic power abuses that we fight against. They were 477 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: reasonably effective, I think, at injecting more radical ideas within 478 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: some traditional nonprofit activist groups. All along there was internal 479 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 3: conflict within DAN about whether or not property destruction like 480 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 3: breaking bank windows or Starbucks windows or doing graffiti would 481 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 3: be accepted within the context of the action. 482 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 2: And this is. 483 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 3: Talked about in a lot of different ways because people 484 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 3: who were involved seem to kind of be wreck conning 485 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: in what happened and being. 486 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: Like, no, we were always in favor of just this 487 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 2: or whatever. 488 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 3: Right, It's worth knowing that there are anarchists and other 489 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 3: radicals on both sides of this debate as best as 490 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: I can tell. And you'll notice, like property destruction includes graffiti, right, 491 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 3: and in their initial call they talk about graffiti art, 492 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 3: and so they're not coming at it morally opposed to 493 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 3: property destruction. 494 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,959 Speaker 2: Well, some people are morally opposed to it. 495 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 3: What they agreed upon was that property destruction was outside 496 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 3: the framework of the direct action they were calling for. 497 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 3: I maybe being a little bit generous there. I think 498 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: that a lot of people might have been specifically calling 499 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 3: on like, no one better come and do this shit, 500 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 3: fuck them if they do. I suspect that there was 501 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 3: a diversity of opinions about that, and I don't know 502 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 3: a ton about how people felt about it, partly because 503 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 3: like I've literally read the same author refer to it 504 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 3: two very different ways in like two thousand and two 505 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 3: thousand and six. You know, when they're talking about it later, 506 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 3: and I'm not going to name that person because everyone's 507 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: opinions and understandings of the past change and stuff. 508 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 2: I'm not truma call this person out. 509 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 3: So it was Dan who put together the basic framework 510 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 3: of how direct action was going to work, which was 511 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: to be clear, when I say direct action shut this down, 512 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 3: they're going to be doing blockades. They're going to be 513 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 3: going and locking themselves to things and making themselves hard 514 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 3: to move so that delegates and stuff can't get into 515 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: the building. So Dan put together that framework, and it 516 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 3: was there organizing that shut down the World Trade Organization, 517 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 3: although also it was internal conflict within the World Trade 518 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 3: Organization also helped it shut it down. Because whatever anyway, 519 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: DAN put together the Direct Action with both help and 520 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 3: hindrance from other coalitions. People for Fair Trade never did 521 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: add DAN actions to the their own calendar of events, 522 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 3: and the labor marches were sometimes scheduled in ways to 523 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 3: draw people away from DAN. And then of course the 524 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 3: Black block, who will talk about they're the fifth group. 525 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 3: They just ignored the no property destruction guidelines that DAN 526 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 3: had agreed upon. But some other groups worked to bridge 527 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: the gaps between DAN and others. Jobs with Justice, a 528 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 3: labor advocacy group from Portland, advertised both the more radical 529 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: and less radical events. And now after November thirtieth, which 530 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 3: spoiler alert is the day that they successfully shut down 531 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 3: the wto opening ceremonies and stuff, suddenly everyone loves Direct 532 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 3: Action Network because they'd organize this big things successfully. Like 533 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 3: after the fact, everyone's like, oh, yeah, we were totally 534 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: with you or whatever. I've read a lot of people 535 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 3: who are salty. I just want to be really clear, 536 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 3: my sources are all so salty. In order to do 537 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 3: this organizing that they did, they started doing action camps 538 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 3: well ahead of time. Action camps are basically multi day 539 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 3: train where you can show up and learn direct action 540 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: skills and they are an amazing time and people still 541 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 3: put them on and you can go to them. They 542 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 3: also started doing road shows talking about the protest, going 543 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 3: place to place and talking about the issues in person, 544 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 3: which is an effective strategy that people do still use. 545 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: But sometimes people get sloppy and rely on social media 546 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 3: alone for outreach. 547 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: These days, you. 548 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: Can reach more people with social media, but combining it 549 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 3: with an in person outreach model is a great combo. 550 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying. Also, it's really funny to be 551 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 3: like and the way they organize this was super in 552 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 3: person and stuff. They didn't perceive themselves as doing that. 553 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 3: They were very like this is the first Internet protest, 554 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 3: because they were also doing an awful lot of internet 555 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 3: organizing and in a way that I'm sure we'll talk 556 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 3: about it sometime. They like basically developed indie media, which 557 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: kind of became social media, and the nightmare world we 558 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 3: live in now everything can be recuperated by capitalism. So 559 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 3: these are the four are coalitions involved. Then there's the 560 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 3: wild Card, which is also a coalition to and just 561 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 3: sort of people forget that it's actually an organized thing. 562 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: The Famed and dreaded Eugene Anarchists the Black Block, which 563 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 3: most of them weren't from Eugene, Oregon, but that's what 564 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 3: the press picked up on. DAN organizers get pretty frustrated 565 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: when media called the Black Block the anarchists, because DAN 566 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 3: itself was heavily anarchists and pretty explicitly at least organized 567 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: along anarchistic lines. But the Eugene Anarchists were. 568 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 2: Part of the Black Block. 569 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 3: Eugene, Oregon is a kind of hippie college town in Oregon, 570 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 3: and in the nineties it was the center of this 571 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: fairly vibrant scene of militant tree sitters and forest defenders. 572 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 3: We've talked about the scene some in our Earth Liberation 573 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 3: Front episodes. There was a group called CFD Cascadia Forest 574 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 3: Defense that would maintain militant road blockades and tree sitty 575 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 3: and things like that to protect old growth forests and 576 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 3: endangered watersheds. An awful lot of those people were anarchists 577 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 3: and specifically part of this fairly new scene, the Green anarchists. 578 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 3: While anarchism comes out of the socialist movement and has 579 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 3: historically focused on issues of class and labor, green anarchists 580 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 3: apply the basic principles of solidarity direct action and egalitarianism 581 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: to the fight for wilderness and ecology rather than focusing 582 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 3: on class issues. Some but not all, green anarchists are 583 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 3: also anarcho primitivists. We specifically say that the root of 584 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 3: modern suffering isn't just the state or capitalism, but the 585 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 3: concept of civilization itself. The main theoretician of anarcho primitivism 586 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 3: at the time was a man named John Zerzan, who 587 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 3: was a local professor in Eugene who had cut his 588 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 3: teeth as an anarchist in the nineteen sixties. To quote 589 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 3: a write up from its Going down dot Org quote, 590 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: Zerzan concluded that the formation of class society, marked by 591 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 3: the shift from hunter gatherer bands to sedentary life through 592 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 3: agriculture and domestication, led to the creation of the state, patriarchy, 593 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 3: and industrialism, and has since sent humanity on course toward 594 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 3: our current industrial climate catastrophe. Moreover, he argued that by 595 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 3: giving up such a form of life, human beings were 596 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 3: leaving behind in existence largely of freedom and autonomy. 597 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 2: End quote. 598 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 3: I don't agree with everything Zerizen has to say, and 599 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 3: I believe that some of his conclusions are based on 600 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 3: outmoded anthropology, but he has done an awful lot of 601 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 3: work exploring the roots of oppression, and yeah, Eugene was 602 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 3: a hotbed of some of the most radical activists in 603 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 3: the country in the nineties. They ran a cable access 604 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 3: show called Cascadia Alive and through shows and had riots 605 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 3: when people were arrested for forest defense, and they planted 606 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 3: community gardens, and they defended trees in the city and 607 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 3: secretly at night, a lot of them were participants in 608 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: the Earth Liberation Front, more directly destroying the machinery that 609 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 3: was destroying the natural world. And in the end, about 610 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 3: one hundred to two hundred people, some of them from Eugene, 611 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 3: most of them not, went to Seattle to participate in 612 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 3: a black Block protest that existed outside the framework suggested 613 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 3: by the other coalitions. It seems likely that the majority 614 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 3: of the Black Block protesters were actually local to Seattle, 615 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 3: but it's impossible to conjecture exactly who was there and 616 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: who wasn't, because when you show up to things to 617 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 3: be anonymous, you don't tend to tell everyone that. As 618 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 3: best as I understand, the block actually did coordinate on 619 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 3: some level with Dan. There was a lot of tension 620 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 3: between these two groups, but the block basically agreed like, 621 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: all right, as long as the protests are peaceful, we're 622 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 3: going to not run around and smash shit. But if 623 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 3: the cops start attacking peaceful protesters, we're going to run 624 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 3: around smash shit. And it seems like they actually did 625 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 3: this away from the lockdowns, and that's a pretty good strategy. 626 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 3: It draws police attention elsewhere, away from unprotected people. But 627 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, this is probably like the most controversial 628 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 3: black block that I've ever read about in terms of 629 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 3: mixed feelings from the crowd. Although once again you have 630 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 3: this thing where the organizers don't want to lose control 631 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 3: of a situation, which makes sense, that's kind of their job. 632 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 3: Even the anarchist organizers that Dan don't want to lose 633 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 3: control of the situation. The sort of rank and file, 634 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 3: the people who are there doing things, I actually have 635 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 3: read accounts where they're much more in favor of, like hoay, the. 636 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 2: Black block is here. 637 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 3: So those are the five groups that I can point to. 638 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 3: Mainstream NGOs who had very little impact as best as 639 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 3: I can tell, Labor which brought the numbers but was 640 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 3: presented as the good protesters by the president, PGA consisting 641 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 3: of largely people from the Global South, which had a 642 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 3: small presence from an organizing and on the ground point 643 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: of view, but pretty much inspired the entire movement in 644 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 3: the first place. You have the Direct Action Network, who 645 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,240 Speaker 3: are the above ground bad activists who organize the actual 646 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 3: successful direct action and then you have the Black Bloc, 647 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 3: which made even the Direct Action Network look like saints 648 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 3: in comparison to the media. Though none of these groups 649 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 3: were actually appreciably violent, the violence was done almost exclusively 650 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 3: by the police. Anyhow, Notably missing from this list, you 651 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,439 Speaker 3: might realize, are the sorts of groups that are doing 652 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 3: more organizing these days, traditional leftist and communist parties. Dan 653 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 3: organizer David Soulnett put it bluntly in an interview quote, 654 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 3: there was absolutely no Marxist, Leninist or Old Left or 655 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,760 Speaker 3: old New Left involvement. Those groups were completely not present. 656 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 3: It was almost exclusively radical and radical anti authoritarian groups. 657 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 3: And the structure in the form of organization that I 658 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 3: think is an incredibly positive departure from left traditions, some 659 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 3: of which we can learn from, some of which we 660 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 3: can leave in the dust bin, and not to push 661 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 3: back against the super I am certain that there were 662 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 3: Marxists and Leninists and Old Left and New Left people 663 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 3: involved in some of these coalitions, but in terms of structure, 664 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 3: you just don't have groups like the PSL or the 665 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 3: Answer Coalition or these traditional authoritarian communist groups. But the 666 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 3: first action that happened against the WTO in November nineteen 667 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 3: ninety nine actually happened in Ocean Away in Geneva, Switzerland, 668 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 3: where the WTO has its headquarters. On November sixteenth, nineteen 669 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 3: ninety nine, twenty seven people went to the headquarters and 670 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 3: were like, hello, we are students, we would like a tour, 671 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 3: And then they were like, just kidding, we're ninety style activists. 672 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 3: So they pulled out chains and chained themselves across the 673 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 3: door and then dropped a banner from the roof, which 674 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 3: is pretty cool. As for how all these pieces came 675 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 3: together to shut down the WTO, we'll talk about that 676 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 3: on Wednesday. It's your cliffhanger. What's going to happen? Well, 677 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 3: you know on some things are going to happen. You 678 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 3: know the police are going to attack them, but you 679 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 3: know that the testers are going to win and six 680 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 3: hundred people get arrested. But we'll talk about it on Wednesday. 681 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 3: But you know what we should talk about. First, support 682 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 3: the protests that are happening. They're probably happening whenever you 683 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 3: listen to this, I mean probably there's some protests you 684 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 3: don't want to support, but a lot of them you 685 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 3: probably do. And remember that everyone is going to protest 686 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 3: in their own ways, and that we are strongest when 687 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 3: we build movements that accept that pluralism, tactical and ideological 688 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 3: pluralism is our strength and not our weakness. When we 689 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 3: tried to hold on so firmly to control, then the 690 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 3: fact that we are politically pluralistic and diverse works against us. 691 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 3: When instead we build frameworks and we invite people in, 692 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 3: as the Zapatista say, look to find compromises with each other. 693 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 3: That's the glue that holds us together. That's when we're strong. 694 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 3: And I guess I should also plug some other stuff. 695 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 3: I have a substack. It's Margaret Kildroyd at substack dot com. 696 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 3: I reflect a lot on the things that I talk 697 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 3: about on the show, as well as things happening in 698 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 3: the regular world. Almost everything is free, but when I 699 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,919 Speaker 3: talk about more personal stuff, it's for paid subscribers only. 700 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 3: I have a new book that's out. I kind of 701 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 3: have two new books that are out. One of them 702 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 3: I've spent so long talking about on the show a 703 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 3: couple months ago. It finally is out. It's called The 704 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 3: Immortal Choir Holds Every Voice, and it is out from 705 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 3: a publisher that I work with that's an anarchist collective 706 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 3: publisher called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. I also helped 707 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 3: co write another role playing game book, and this one's 708 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,720 Speaker 3: called Defenders of the Wild, which is also a board 709 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 3: game that I had a little bit less to do with. 710 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 3: I did some world building for the board game, but 711 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,720 Speaker 3: I had much more to do with the world building 712 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,399 Speaker 3: for the Almanac compendium. That is a tabletop roleplaying game. 713 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 3: So you should look for Defenders of the Wild and 714 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 3: go out and get it. It's full of beautiful art. 715 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 3: I worked with amazing co authors on it. I am 716 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 3: not the primary creator, but I did an awful lot 717 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 3: of the writing and battle scenes and had a. 718 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 2: Lot of fun with it. 719 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, those are some things to plug anyway, I'll talk 720 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 3: to you on Wednesday. 721 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 722 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, 723 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: visit our website goolzonemedia dot com, or check us out 724 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 725 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 2: Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.