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Speaker 1: The crime scene in the murder of Chung Wai Yang

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Speaker 1: didn't just look wrong. It looked intentional. No warning, no struggle,

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Speaker 1: just a single shot to the back of the head,

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Speaker 1: footprints leading nowhere, and the hunter's gear stripped away like

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Speaker 1: a trophy. For the Yang family, the question started immediately

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Speaker 1: for investigators. The answers would point toward a pair of

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Speaker 1: hunters who claimed it was all just a joke. That's

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Speaker 1: next on Blood Trails. When Maivu Yang got a text

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Speaker 1: from her mother one evening in the fall of twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't too concerned to read that her father hadn't

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Speaker 1: come home from deer hunting.

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Speaker 2: When it first happen, it felt like a normal thing

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Speaker 2: that happens every year. Every year. My mom always freaks

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Speaker 2: out when my dad doesn't come home right.

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Speaker 1: Chung Wa Yang had been chasing whitetail at the Rose

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Speaker 1: Lake State Wildlife Area, about ten miles northeast of Lansing, Michigan.

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Speaker 1: It was a place he'd hunted dozens, maybe hundreds of times.

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Speaker 2: Before, So when my mom started blowing all of our

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Speaker 2: phones November sixteenth, we just assumed it was the same

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Speaker 2: thing she does every year. We were not alarmed. We

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Speaker 2: were like, mom, Dad probably got a deer and that's

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Speaker 2: why he does not picking up on you, like, stop overreacting.

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Speaker 1: But Maivu's mother refused to be mollified, and as the

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Speaker 1: darkness deepened on that cold November evening and Chung still

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Speaker 1: hadn't responded to calls and messages, the Yang family began

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Speaker 1: to realize that something was wrong.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're married, so she has that I guess feeling.

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Speaker 2: She's just like, no, this time is different, and like,

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Speaker 2: your dad always calls me when he comes down from

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Speaker 2: the tree.

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Speaker 1: The Yang family is a big one, so there were

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Speaker 1: plenty of volunteers to help scour the woods. Chung's brother

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Speaker 1: had been hunting on a different price property that day

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Speaker 1: with his son Meng, so the pair drove to Rose

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Speaker 1: Lake to put missus Yang's mind at ease. They were

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Speaker 1: joined by Thani Yang, another of Chunk's nephews, along with

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Speaker 1: Thani's friend, a.

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Speaker 3: Guy named Lucas Braun.

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Speaker 1: The Rose Lake wildlife area is heavily wooded and it's

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Speaker 1: easy to get turned around, especially in the dark, but

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Speaker 1: the Yang family knew Cheng's usual hunting spots, so it

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Speaker 1: didn't take long for their worst fears to be realized.

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Speaker 2: My niece texted me and said, they found grandpa. Someone

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Speaker 2: shot him, and I just remember like blacking out and

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Speaker 2: just screaming and crying because it was just kind of like,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're supposed to have thingsgiving, like, what do

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Speaker 2: you mean they found grandpa.

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Speaker 1: Chong Yang was found lying face down in the two

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Speaker 1: inches of snow that blanketed the forest floor. The sixty

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Speaker 1: eight year old hunter had been shot in the back

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Speaker 1: of the head and the bullet had exited his left eye.

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Speaker 4: So during their funeral, his face had to be reconstructed

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Speaker 4: for that because his whole left cheek pretty much the

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Speaker 4: meat was blown out. It was just kind of the

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Speaker 4: skin left over there.

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Speaker 1: That's Joseph Yang, an attorney who helped the family navigate

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Speaker 1: the grueling legal process in the years that followed. He

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Speaker 1: also acted as the family spokesperson, and he told me

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Speaker 1: Chong's brother and nephews could tell right away that this

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Speaker 1: wasn't some kind of innocent mistake.

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Speaker 4: Chong hunted with a gun with his backpack as well

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Speaker 4: as a traditional mom hunting knife. His backpack was missing

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Speaker 4: as well as his hunting knife was missing, and the

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Speaker 4: gun was missing as well.

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Speaker 1: Chong hadn't just been shot in the back of the head.

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Speaker 1: His gun and backpack had also been stolen, which told

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Speaker 1: investigators that whoever had done this had walked up to

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Speaker 1: the body, grabbed the nearest valuables within reach, and walked away.

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Speaker 1: As Mavu's eight brothers and sisters gathered their family for

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Speaker 1: the week's long morning process, she knew she had to

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Speaker 1: do something.

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Speaker 2: So I remember, like my sister's everybody's coming in and

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Speaker 2: just crying, and I just had to like sit down

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Speaker 2: and be like, Okay, as much as sadness as I'm

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Speaker 2: feeling right now, someone has to be the rational one.

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Speaker 2: Someone has to ask the right questions. So I just

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Speaker 2: remember that night we were there and just watching everybody cry.

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Speaker 2: I was just like, no, I'm going to try to

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Speaker 2: be the rational one and find out who did this.

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Speaker 1: True to her word, Mavu became the tip of the

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Speaker 1: spear advocating for her father's murderer to be brought to justice,

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Speaker 1: but she had no idea how long or how much

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Speaker 1: of a roller coaster the next six years would be.

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Speaker 1: Chong's murder baffled the greater Lancing community as locals wondered

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Speaker 1: how such a quiet, peaceful suburb could experience such a

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Speaker 1: cruel and apparently racist crime. The case teetered on a

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Speaker 1: knife's edge between hot and cold until GPS coordinates, a

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Speaker 1: can of scent killer, footprints in the snow, and a

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Speaker 1: serious blunder by one of the suspects blew the case

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Speaker 1: wide open. But what happened next has been contested even

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Speaker 1: to this day, as investigators have tried to parse fact

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Speaker 1: from fiction, truth from lies, and humor from homicide. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jordan Sillers and this is Blood Trails the Murder of

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Speaker 1: Chung Yang, Part one. Chung Chung Wa Yang was born

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Speaker 1: in Laos in nineteen fifty and it's safe to say

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Speaker 1: he lived a fascinating life.

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Speaker 2: So my dad was a Girlla soldier, and then once

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Speaker 2: the US pulled out, he came in. I believe eighty

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Speaker 2: eight is when they officially came.

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Speaker 1: Chung was a member of the Mung community, a group

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Speaker 1: of people originally from Laos whose history with the Americans

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Speaker 1: began in the nineteen sixties during the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 5: I think everybody knows the Vietnam War, but what they

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Speaker 5: know is what happened in Vietnam. During that same time,

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Speaker 5: there was what's called a Secret War.

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Speaker 1: That's Yavang, who you might remember from his appearances on

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Speaker 1: the Meat Eater podcast. Yeah, is a chef in Minneapolis

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Speaker 1: where he owns a restaurant that specializes in Mung cuisine.

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Speaker 1: He sat down with me alongside his friend and another

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Speaker 1: regular Meter guest, Ya Yang. Together they helped me understand

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Speaker 1: the history of the Mung in the US and how

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Speaker 1: that history intersects with the outdoor community.

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Speaker 5: And in the Secret War in the northern part of

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Speaker 5: Laos in the mountains, communists regime was kind of coming

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Speaker 5: down from that route, and the US sent into Cia

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Speaker 5: and special forces in to train hill people, these mountain peoples,

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Speaker 5: which were the Mung peoples, and they became a paramilitary troops.

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Speaker 1: That's what Maivu means when she says her father was

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Speaker 1: a guerrilla soldier. He joined as many as one hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand Mung men who fought alongside the American special forces

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Speaker 1: during the Vietnam War. They fought the ground war, flew

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Speaker 1: combat missions, directed airstrikes, rescued downed American pilots, fought behind

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Speaker 1: enemy lines, and gathered intelligence on the movements of North

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Speaker 1: Vietnamese troops. The problem was, as you know if you

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Speaker 1: were paying attention in history class, the Americans eventually pulled

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Speaker 1: out of Vietnam. When they did, among people were in

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Speaker 1: serious trouble.

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Speaker 5: And then there was kind of a genocie of the

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Speaker 5: Monk people, and so when the communist troops came through,

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Speaker 5: they just went to the villages of the Mung people

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Speaker 5: and they killed them off.

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Speaker 1: This was, he explained, an incredibly difficult time for the

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Speaker 1: Monk not only because their people were being killed, but

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Speaker 1: also because they felt betrayed by the US after signing

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Speaker 1: on to the vision and values of the American Dream.

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Speaker 5: The reason why they joined up was the promise was

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Speaker 5: made and no matter what, when loser draw, your people

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Speaker 5: can come to the United States and have freedom and

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Speaker 5: be citizens. So you had to realize that for a

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Speaker 5: lot of these among veterans who were part of the

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Speaker 5: SGU the Special Guerrilla Unit, they're true patriots. They fought

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Speaker 5: for a country that they never stepped foot in before,

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Speaker 5: and they fought for a country knowing that there was

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Speaker 5: a promise made, but the promise itself wasn't fulfilled until

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Speaker 5: many years later.

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Speaker 1: Chung was one of those patriots like Yah and Ya's fathers.

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Speaker 1: He joined the war when he was just a teenager

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Speaker 1: in the late nineteen sixties, but was forced to flee

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Speaker 1: Laus when it fell to the Communists in nineteen seventy five.

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Speaker 3: Here's yeah, and.

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Speaker 6: That was the beginning of the among people's journey to

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Speaker 6: several different countries, mainly Australia, France, and the United States.

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Speaker 6: But that was kind of the start of the refugee

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Speaker 6: camps and among People's journey to the US.

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Speaker 1: Congress passed a new Refugee Act in nineteen eighty that

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Speaker 1: increased the number of refugees allowed into the country each

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Speaker 1: year and helped many mong resettle in the US. Many

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Speaker 1: made homes in California and North Carolina, but thousands ended

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Speaker 1: up in the Upper Midwest states of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and

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Speaker 1: like Chung's family, Michigan.

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Speaker 2: When he first got here, he took a few construction jobs.

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Speaker 2: He knows how to do a little construction, so he

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Speaker 2: did more like handyman work. He did janet herhor work.

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Speaker 2: So he worked for like Franchina Mold, he worked for Peckham.

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Speaker 2: He worked for Grand River North Corporation, so he don't

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Speaker 2: basically janitary work, maintenance work. My dad was very handy.

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Speaker 1: Through hard work and perseverance, Chong cobbled together a comfortable

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Speaker 1: living for his growing family. That work included what Mavu

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Speaker 1: just described, but Chung also took advantage of the grocery

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Speaker 1: store in the woods and on the water.

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Speaker 2: My dad is the eldest grandson of the family. He's

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Speaker 2: always been a provider. He is like hunting has always

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Speaker 2: been a way to provide for everyone. He took his

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Speaker 2: cousins that didn't have dads hunting like he literally always

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Speaker 2: been like teaching people to how to hunt. So he's

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Speaker 2: always been a strong provider for not only in the

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Speaker 2: nine children in our family, he also provided for everybody.

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Speaker 2: He just took care of everyone.

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Speaker 1: Mavu said that part of the reason Chong was hunting

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Speaker 1: the day he died was to harvest some venison to

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Speaker 1: distribute to all his kids when they came home for Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: But hunting wasn't just about filling the freezer.

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Speaker 2: Hunting was his way of reliefing stress. You know, all

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Speaker 2: the stress that is on his shoulder. So he used

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Speaker 2: to fish. But then my mom started fishing, and then

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Speaker 2: you know, she's his stress. So he was like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm not fishing no more. Because he was just like,

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Speaker 2: I gotta take her with me, and I'll try to

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Speaker 2: go away from her. So he stopped fishing for a

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Speaker 2: while because like he loved it until my mom started

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Speaker 2: and then he hang up with his fishing pole and

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Speaker 2: continue hunting. Hunting was his stress relievers, so he tended

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Speaker 2: to do it by himself places that my dad has hunted.

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Speaker 2: He's been hunting for over twenty nine years. He's very

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Speaker 2: comfortable with the environment that he hunts at, so all

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Speaker 2: the public state lands around Lansing area was like my

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Speaker 2: dad's playground. So we mushroom hunt, we forge, and he

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Speaker 2: goes hunting for squirrel.

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Speaker 1: For dare Chung wasn't alone in his love of hunting,

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Speaker 1: as Yah and Ya explained that among people have a

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Speaker 1: long and proud heritage of living off the land that

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Speaker 1: extends well beyond their time in the US.

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Speaker 5: The Chinese caused the meou. The word miao literally translates

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Speaker 5: the sons of the soil. Our people have constantly, constantly

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Speaker 5: been the people of the land. We are people of

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Speaker 5: the land, so we use the land around us for survival,

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Speaker 5: to build, to grow, hunting and fishing is like in

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Speaker 5: our blood. I mean, if you talk to any mon

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Speaker 5: grandpa or uncles who came in from Laos, Thailand, you

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Speaker 5: know area, they will tell you stories of Yep, this

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Speaker 5: is how you hunt, this is how you set traps,

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Speaker 5: this is how you set snares, this is how you fish.

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Speaker 5: This is what you do. You use the land around you,

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Speaker 5: and so it's such ingrain in our lives.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I use the word subsistence to describe how the among

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Speaker 1: people lived in Laos. He doesn't mean they lack necessities,

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Speaker 1: but that they lived their whole lives close to the land.

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Speaker 7: If you live your entire life in Laos, you wake

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Speaker 7: up and you farmed, and you hunted and you fished

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Speaker 7: like that was your life. I mean outside of that,

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Speaker 7: you probably got married and raised a family to ork

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Speaker 7: the land and hunt and fished, right, because that's how

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Speaker 7: you live.

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Speaker 1: Many monk took advantage of the plentiful opportunities to hunt

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Speaker 1: and fish in the US, but while some were able

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Speaker 1: to navigate the complexities of the North American model of

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Speaker 1: wildlife management, others struggled to adapt to a world where

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Speaker 1: you need to buy a hunting license and observe bag limits.

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Speaker 3: But I also.

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Speaker 5: Knew cousins and uncles who are like, well why not

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Speaker 5: you can, like, if we can gather this, and then

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Speaker 5: you know, we can take all this panfish, take it home,

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Speaker 5: we clean it up, we freeze them. Now we have

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Speaker 5: food for the next you know, two to three weeks,

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Speaker 5: and it was no difference than harvesting from a farm.

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Speaker 5: I think the problem that we had in our culture

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Speaker 5: was there were elders who were saying, well, I don't

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Speaker 5: get this. I'm just going to do my own thing,

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Speaker 5: you know, which, Dude, tell me that's not a mom thing.

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Speaker 5: That's just an old person thing, right, you know.

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Speaker 1: Both Yeah and Yeah were quick to point out that

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Speaker 1: many of their parents and grandparents were extremely conscientious of

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Speaker 1: wildlife regulations. He has said his father would ask his

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Speaker 1: kids to explain the rules to him to make sure

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Speaker 1: he understood them, and Mavus said Chung was always careful

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Speaker 1: to follow hunting laws and etiquette. But even Native born

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Speaker 1: Americans have trouble keeping track of all the rags. So

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Speaker 1: you can see how there would be an adjustment period

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Speaker 1: for that first generation of Mung hunters.

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Speaker 3: Who settled in the US.

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Speaker 1: The reason this is relevant to Chung's case is that

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Speaker 1: during those early years, the mon whether they deserved it

254
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Speaker 1: or not, earned a reputation for skirting wildlife laws.

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Speaker 5: And then what does that do, man? It builds on

256
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Speaker 5: more bias than, which builds on more bias, which then

257
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Speaker 5: turns into racism than, which turns to the sentence, you

258
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Speaker 5: know that sentence. They all are blaw da da da da.

259
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Speaker 5: They are those people do this, Those people do this.

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Speaker 1: As investigators started getting tips in the weeks and months

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Speaker 1: after Chung's death, they found those who expressed versions of

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Speaker 1: this anti Asian bias. Members of Chung's family reported him

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Speaker 1: having run ins with white hunters in the woods, and

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Speaker 1: they couldn't help but wonder if racism could have been

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Speaker 1: one of the motivating factors.

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Speaker 3: Behind Chung's death.

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Speaker 1: Maivu made a point to say that the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of people in the Lansing area were anything but racist.

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Speaker 1: She says the community came together around the search for

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Speaker 1: Chong's killer, and most of her memories of her dad

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Speaker 1: in the woods are positive.

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Speaker 2: All the times I did go hunting with my I'm

273
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Speaker 2: a social butterfly, so like every person might pass, I

274
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Speaker 2: always had that hiker etiquette where I said, hi, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, like just to make sure you're you know,

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Speaker 2: you always want to be people to remember that. Oh yeah,

277
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Speaker 2: I saw this little asia go work in the woods.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Chong's decision to take his daughter on his excursions wasn't

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Speaker 1: a light one. Maivu says that it was taboo for

281
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Speaker 1: girls to hunt, and so she especially appreciates her father's

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Speaker 1: willingness to include her in what was traditionally a male activity.

283
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Speaker 2: I never wanted to do garden with my mom, so

284
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Speaker 2: I was like, can I go with you guys? And

285
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Speaker 2: my dad would like, hurry up, go hiding the car.

286
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Speaker 2: So he always took me fishing and hunting with them,

287
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Speaker 2: you know, even like when we were like Lettle and

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Speaker 2: my dad will go hunting and then he'll take me

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Speaker 2: my little brother, and then we'll be like cause little puppy.

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Speaker 2: When he shot a squirrel, we'll go and grab a stick, poke,

291
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Speaker 2: make sure he's dead, and then we pick it up.

292
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Speaker 2: So that's great memories we have of hunting with my dad.

293
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Speaker 2: He wanted to go hunting, but he had to watch us,

294
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Speaker 2: so he took us with him.

295
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Speaker 1: After Chunk passed, Mava was going through his things and

296
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Speaker 1: found that he kept her hunter's education certificate and.

297
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Speaker 2: I didn't even know that he kept it in there,

298
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 2: and I found it like after he passed away, and

299
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Speaker 2: then we're going through all his stuff. So to be

300
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Speaker 2: able to like have my dad like allow me to

301
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Speaker 2: join with them, even though I was a girl. It

302
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 2: was like a great experience growing up. Like I remember,

303
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Speaker 2: like when we were younger, we'll go mushroom forging. And

304
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Speaker 2: for this particular year, I decided to wear my white

305
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Speaker 2: Air Force to go out into the woods. Okay, yes,

306
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 2: during mushroom season. It's really wet out there, right, did

307
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Speaker 2: not think of it. So my dad piggybacked me through

308
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Speaker 2: the swamps so my white Air Forces wouldn't get dirty.

309
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Speaker 2: And I was like a teenager, you know, my dad

310
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Speaker 2: was piggyback me through these swamps just because my smart

311
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Speaker 2: but decided to wear my white Air Force to go

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Speaker 2: mushroom hunting.

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Speaker 1: Chong's death was a major blow to the Yang family,

314
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Speaker 1: and not just because they lost a kind hearted father

315
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Speaker 1: who would carry his daughter through the woods so her

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00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: new shoes wouldn't get dirty. As Mavu explained, Chung was

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Speaker 1: the oldest male in the family. As such, she had

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Speaker 1: a special role as a provider, a mediator, and a mentor.

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Speaker 2: My brothers lost the mentors. A lot of my uncles

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Speaker 2: they you know, my dad was the oldest one, so

321
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 2: my dad was always the one like they all went

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Speaker 2: to talk to. Because my dad's he's very soft spoken,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't like confrontation. He likes to, you know, be

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Speaker 2: very reasonable. So he always is the level headed one.

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Speaker 2: Where he tried to gap the bridges. That's just all

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Speaker 2: he's done. His whole life was gap bridges between the

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Speaker 2: new generation and the old generation, make sure that everybody

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Speaker 2: is taken care of. So it was really hard to

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Speaker 2: see my brothers, my uncles, all his friends, everybody just

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Speaker 2: changed after my dad died, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like at my wedding, you know, like all the uncles

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Speaker 2: were like, you know, if your dad was here, this

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00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 2: is what your dad would have said, because this is

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Speaker 2: what he said to our daughters. You can definitely see

335
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 2: the depression that everybody had in my family home. Hunting

336
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 2: was different for everyone too, Like everything has been a

337
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 2: lot different without my dad, you know, because you know,

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Speaker 2: even though like he was level headed, he also had

339
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,399
Speaker 2: this like choker mentality where he will like make a

340
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,480
Speaker 2: situation a little bit better with a joke here and there,

341
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Speaker 2: so we never really got to drown and sorrow. He

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00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,120
Speaker 2: was like some ray of sunshine, some ray of reasoning

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Speaker 2: for everyone. So to lose that sunshine and ray for

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Speaker 2: everyone it was. It's still very difficult.

345
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Speaker 1: Unless you've experienced something like this yourself. It's tough to

346
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,160
Speaker 1: imagine what the Yang family went through as they tried

347
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Speaker 1: to pick up the pieces after finding Chong lying on

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Speaker 1: that forest floor. But as they work to fill the

349
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: unfillable gap Chong had left, detectives with the Bath Township

350
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Speaker 1: Police Department began to piece together what had happened to

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Speaker 1: the father, grandfather, and lifelong mong hunter.

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Speaker 3: That's next after the Break Part two.

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Speaker 1: The crime scene detective Brian Miller had been with the

354
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 1: Bath Township Police for about six years when Chung was

355
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,199
Speaker 1: killed in twenty eighteen. He took the lead on the

356
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,159
Speaker 1: investigation because the incident happened within the township's jurisdiction, but

357
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 1: he'd only been a detective for about eleven months. This

358
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 1: was also his first homicide investigation as the case officer

359
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: in charge, which turned out to be a pretty raw deal.

360
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: That's because as I've mentioned before, homicides in a rural,

361
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 1: wooded area are some of the most difficult to solve.

362
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: Evidence can be easily hidden or destroyed, witnesses are few

363
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 1: and far between, and it's impossible to say exactly how

364
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 1: large the crime scene is. The two inches of fresh

365
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: snow on the ground might have been a big help,

366
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 1: but by the time detective Miller arrived at the scene,

367
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 1: it was it was tough to tell one print from another.

368
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 4: Yes, there's bootprints all over the place. I mean, if

369
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 4: you can imagine somebody either family responding, and then you

370
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 4: add on the emergency personnel, there's don't be bootprints everywhere,

371
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 4: but there's only one unique set that goes that way.

372
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 1: That's Joseph Yang, again, the family attorney. Detective Miller was

373
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: not permitted to speak on the record since this case

374
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 1: is still in the appellate process, but Joseph knows as

375
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: much about Chung's investigation as anyone who wasn't in the

376
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: police department. I was able to obtain the entire case

377
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,120
Speaker 1: file from the bath Township Police that included incident reports,

378
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: tips received, emails between detectives and prosecutors, and screenshots of

379
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 1: phones and other electronic evidence. One of the first things

380
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,600
Speaker 1: Miller noticed is what you've just heard. While the Yang

381
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 1: family had left their own bootprints around Chung's body as

382
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: they ran to check on their uncle and brother, there

383
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 1: was one set of prints that walked off by itself.

384
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: Whoever had left them had walked back and forth between

385
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 1: Chung's body and a nearby log, and then traveled north

386
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: away from the body towards a larger footpath. The only

387
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: other set of prints that could be distinguished was Chung's,

388
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 1: which led back to his tree stand. Chung was wearing

389
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 1: camel clothing and a hunter's orange vest, and investigators found

390
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,640
Speaker 1: a flashlight underneath his body, along with a headlamp battery

391
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: pack near his head. It was obvious to investigators that

392
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: the sixty eight year old was shot while walking home

393
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: after climbing down from his tree stand. Sunset was at

394
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 1: five oh nine that evening, which means legal shooting hours,

395
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: ended at five thirty nine, assuming about twenty minutes to

396
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: pack up his stuff, climb down, and start walking out.

397
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: Miller estimated that Chung was shot around six pm. He

398
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: also spoke to at least two neighbors in the area

399
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 1: who reported hearing a shot around that time, which they

400
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 1: noted because it was obviously after legal hunting hours.

401
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 4: To kind of hear something like this, this type of tragedy,

402
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 4: you know, at first you think, oh, was it a

403
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 4: hunting asding and you hear about that stuff all the time. Right,

404
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 4: something moved, they thought it was the animal they shot.

405
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 4: It happens, Unfortunately it does, and for hunters that's kind

406
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 4: of a risk. But when we started hearing more details

407
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 4: and starting to give more information for protective Miller kind

408
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 4: of explaining what happened, it was a shot to the

409
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 4: system because we couldn't imagine such a mild man or

410
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 4: man being shot in that way.

411
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: Those details were more about what wasn't at the crime

412
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 1: scene than about what was actually found.

413
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 4: Chung hunted with a gun with his backpack as well

414
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 4: as a traditional mom hunting knife. His backpack was missing

415
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 4: as well as his hunting knife was missing, and the

416
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 4: gun was missing as well. And you know, the defense

417
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 4: trys to said, well, he maybe he was scouting or

418
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 4: something like that.

419
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 3: No, he went hunting.

420
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 4: He told his family he went to hunt, and nobody

421
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 4: hunts without a gun, especially during gun season. His family

422
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,360
Speaker 4: hunted with him all the time. They said, whenever he went.

423
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 4: He had his gun, his hunting knife, and his backpack

424
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 4: with just kind of miscellaneous things that he might need,

425
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 4: and his ammal bag and stuff like that, so all

426
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 4: that was gone.

427
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 1: The theft of Chung's gun, backpack, and knife didn't totally

428
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: rule out accident, but it definitely gave what happened a

429
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: far more sinister.

430
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 4: Edge normal accident hunting accident. You shoot, you realize in

431
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,400
Speaker 4: that a deer, you try to help, you call authorities.

432
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 4: I mean, that's your fellow brother, hunting brother, right. You

433
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 4: would never want that to happen to you. If you're

434
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: a hunter out there, If something happens, you go out there,

435
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 4: you go help them. You don't take their gun, their backpack,

436
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 4: in their knife and lead them out there in the

437
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 4: cold to die alone.

438
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: The wound in Chong's head was a grizzly one, but

439
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: it didn't offer as much information as you might think.

440
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: Medical examiners concluded that the wound was made by a

441
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: caliber larger than a twenty two, But even though they

442
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: were able to extract two pieces of bullet fragment, they

443
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: weren't able to determine a more specific caliber.

444
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 4: They really couldn't get any evidentiary value of like is

445
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 4: this manufacture or something of that nature the metal which

446
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: is kind of a generic medal, and so they couldn't

447
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 4: get anything specific from that. I mean, based on the bullet,

448
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 4: it looks kind of like a rifle just because of

449
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 4: the size of it all. But they couldn't even say

450
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 4: what it was because the bullet was so mangled and

451
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 4: it's just generic metal that they couldn't really say specifically

452
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 4: what it was. It's kind of a theory that it

453
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: might have been a rifle, definitely not bugshot or anything

454
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 4: of that nature.

455
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: The forensic pathologist, a woman named doctor Alisha Wilson, said

456
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: the two pieces of metal found near Chung's eye appeared

457
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: to be quote parts of a jacket copper in other words,

458
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 1: as opposed to the lead found inside a copper jacketed bullet.

459
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: This might suggest a rifle bullet, like Joseph said, and

460
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: it would indeed exclude the kind of all lead slug

461
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: commonly used in shotguns. But it's also possible that the

462
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: projectile was what's called a sabo slug sometimes pronounced Sabbath slug.

463
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: These copper jacketed bullets are most commonly used in shotguns

464
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: and muzzleloading rifles, and they feature the conical shape we

465
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: associate with modern projectiles. They also have a plastic base

466
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: designed to ter face with a barrel's rifling to spin

467
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: the bullet and increase accuracy. In other words, while Detective

468
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: Miller knew he wasn't looking for a rim fire rifle

469
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: or someone using buckshot, he couldn't narrow things down much

470
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: beyond that. It could have been someone using a shotgun

471
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: or a muzzleloader with a Sabo slug, or any rifle

472
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: chambered in a caliber larger than a twenty two. He

473
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: also couldn't know for sure which way the shot came

474
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: from or how far away the shooter was. The shot

475
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: entered through the back of Chunk's head, but the hunter

476
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: could have been looking to one side or the other.

477
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: There was also no way to know whether or how

478
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: much he'd moved around after being hit. Doctor Wilson testified

479
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: that she ruled out a close proximity shot due to

480
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: the lack of soot on the wound, but she couldn't

481
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: narrow the distance much beyond that. Though long and short

482
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: of it was, the crime scene didn't offer Detective Miller

483
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: or his colleagues much information. They didn't find anyone else's

484
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: belongings on the ground, and they weren't able to match

485
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: the foreign DNA found on Chung's body to anyone else.

486
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 3: That DNA could have been.

487
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: From a relative, coworker or the murderer. The only evidence

488
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: that anyone else had even been at the scene were

489
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: those bootprints.

490
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 4: There's a path, there's a main artery that goes through there,

491
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 4: and of course the investigation happens, the family goes out

492
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: to find them. There's bootprints everywhere in that area, but

493
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 4: there's one unique set of bootprints that kind of loops

494
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: up and it comes back down, and that unique set

495
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: of bootprints is where that spray is found.

496
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: That spray was a can of scent killer, and it

497
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: was found in a plastic grocery bag next to the

498
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: same kind of bootprints that had walked next to Chung's body.

499
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: But while police did eventually collect it, they didn't realize

500
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: at first that it was connected to the crime scene.

501
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 4: And with the police officer when they scanned the area,

502
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: they found it and they marked it, but it wasn't

503
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 4: even anything. They thought it was just a litter, just

504
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 4: kind of trashed.

505
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: The night Chung was killed.

506
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: Sergeant Patrick McPherson found the can of Scent Killer about

507
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: three hundred yards to the south of the body. He

508
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: was scouring the woods in search of evidence, and he

509
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: noticed a set of prints that matched those found near Chung.

510
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: These prints led away from the main trail to the

511
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: west and towards some private property. The prince led him

512
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: to the can of sent spray, but he wasn't sure

513
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: whether it was connected to the crime scene. That's because

514
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: when he followed those prints back to the main trail,

515
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: he couldn't distinguish them from the other bootmarks on the trail.

516
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: He didn't pick up the bag and can that night,

517
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: but the next day Detective Miller asked him to go

518
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: back and retrieve it. It's possible that whoever had killed

519
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: Chong had walked back to the main trail and then

520
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: veered off to the west towards private property, dropping the

521
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: scent spray on the way. They couldn't say for sure,

522
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: but the fact that those prince matched the ones found

523
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,199
Speaker 1: near Chung suggested that two could be linked. Detective Miller's

524
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: instincts turned out to be correct. They wouldn't know it

525
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: for another six years, but that can of scent killer

526
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: became one of the most crucial pieces of evidence in

527
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: the prosecution of Chung's murderer Part three, Tips and leads.

528
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: With the crime scene failing to produce any solid leads,

529
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: Detective Miller turned to the general public for help. The

530
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: police department put out press releases asking to speak with

531
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: anyone who had been near Rose Lake that day or

532
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: who might have heard something relevant about what happened. My

533
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: vow was a big part of this campaign. She launched

534
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: a Facebook page to raise awareness about her father's case.

535
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: She also organized yearly events commemorating his death and put

536
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: flyers around town soliciting leads.

537
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: When the first happened, everybody in Cammell was a potential suspect.

538
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: So it was very scary to like because at that

539
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: time I was making flyers, I was going to Roselake

540
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: into other public state land, and I was putting flyers

541
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: on people's card askinglake if they know anything, you know

542
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 2: what I mean. So it was scary to be in

543
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: that position where you don't know, is this the potential

544
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: car of the person who kill my dad? Like you

545
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: just didn't know.

546
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: Some of the tips they received were more helpful than others.

547
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: One tip, for example, came in through crime Stoppers and

548
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: claimed that Chong was murdered by a CIA agent carrying

549
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: badge number four thirty five. The tipster said Cheng was

550
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: with a group of eight people at the time he

551
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: was killed, but didn't explain who those other people were

552
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: or why the CIA would want Chung dead. It is

553
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: true that the spooks ran the Mung operation in Laos,

554
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: but there was no evidence that Chong had maintained any

555
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: kind of connection with the agency, and the bit about

556
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: him being with eight other people was obviously false, so

557
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: the tip was deemed not credible. Many of the tips

558
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: that came in revolved around hunters who had expressed anti

559
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: Asian or anti Mung bias. The Yang family told investigators

560
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: that Chong had experienced this bias in the past, and

561
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: investigators looked at several hunters for this reason. One man,

562
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: for example, post did a Facebook comment that said quote,

563
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: I hunt right there. People kill half year old deer,

564
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: especially the walking white rice and soy sauces that hunt

565
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: out there opening day at nine am, walking out the

566
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: woods to the Kia or Honda with a squirrel. This

567
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: fellow's name was Matthew Mattney, and investigators were obviously interested

568
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: in hearing more about his views on the case. He

569
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: told detectives that he hadn't hunted at Rose Lake in

570
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: the last two years, but he did remember meeting someone

571
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: he believed was Chung. He said Chong had interrupted his hunt,

572
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: but when he tried to talk to him, Chung just

573
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: turned around and walked away. Detectives asked Mattney if they

574
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: could search his cell phone, and he said they could,

575
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: But in what turned out to be an odd bit

576
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: of foreshadowing, Mattney admitted that there was a text on

577
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: his phone to his cousin in which he was quote

578
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: joking about killing Chong. This could have ended very poorly

579
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: for Mattney, but he ended up being exonerated by the

580
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: same phone that could have put him in jail. When

581
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: detectives pulled the location information from Mattney's device, they found

582
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: that it hadn't been to bath Township in over a month.

583
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: On the day of Chong's murder, Mattney had been in

584
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: lancing at a scrap metal junkyard, which was verified by

585
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: another detective. Investigators received dozens of other tips over the

586
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: subsequent months and years.

587
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: Many were little more than rumors.

588
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: Though they had to track down each and every one

589
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: of them. But reading through the case file, there's one

590
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: name that comes up more than any other in the

591
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: first two years of the investigation.

592
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: Jack Kuhn.

593
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 2: The first person that kind of was like on the

594
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: radar as of the person in interest was mentioned as

595
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Jack Kuhn. I guess he had this bendet against Asian

596
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: people because his dad was died in the Vietnam War.

597
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: Detective Miller received his first tip about Kuhn in December

598
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen, just a few weeks after Chong's death.

599
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: This tipster said that Kuhn used to live in a

600
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: trailer park he owned, and Kuhn would complain that his

601
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: father was killed by a quote foreigner during the war. Then,

602
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: just about a month later, Miller caught Kuhn at the

603
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: scene of the crime. The detective had placed trail cams

604
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: looking at the spot Cheng had been found. Those cameras

605
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: took photos of Kun walking past that spot on November

606
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: twenty second and twenty fifth, about a week after Chung

607
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: was murdered. In the photos, you can see Kun looking

608
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: down at the spot where Chung had fallen, and a

609
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: pool of blood was still frozen on the ground. This

610
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: was obviously suspicious, so Detective Miller got in touch with

611
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: Kuhn and asked to have a chat. During their initial

612
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: phone conversation, Kun admitted that he'd been hunting at Rose

613
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: Lake for the last twenty years, but denied having been

614
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: out in.

615
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: The woods the knight Chong was killed.

616
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: However, he described the general area of the crime scene

617
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: as being near one of his usual spots. Later, when

618
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: he met detectives at Rose Lake to show them where

619
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: he'd set up his tree stand, he led them directly

620
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: past the crime scene. He explained that there was only

621
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: one way in an out from his tree stand, and

622
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: that route took him past where Cheng had been hunting.

623
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: This wasn't enough to arrest mister Kuhn, but it did

624
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: make him suspect number one, though it was never verified

625
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: and Kuhn denied it. Detective Miller also received a tip

626
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: that Kuhn had used a racial slur against Southeast Asians

627
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: while at a DNR chech station.

628
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 4: He's one of the many people that they interview to

629
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: make sure and check off the list, and yes, because

630
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 4: of those remarks, he was a suspect while he's a

631
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 4: person of interest and they interviewed him.

632
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: But what was perhaps the most damning piece of evidence

633
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: against Kuhn is that he was seen wearing the same

634
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: kind of boots that had made those prints around Cheng's body.

635
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 1: After a lengthy back and forth with Dick's Sporting Goods,

636
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: Detective Miller confirmed that the boot tread found at the

637
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: crime scene was most likely made by field and stream

638
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: swamp tracker rubber hunting boots. This was a common type

639
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: of hunting boot at the time, though that particular model

640
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: appears to have been discontinued. One of Chong's nephews actually

641
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: had several pairs of this kind of boot, so he

642
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: was one of the first suspects detective Miller had to

643
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: rule out. Miller told other law enforcement officers to be

644
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: on the lookout for this type of boot, and almost

645
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: exactly a year after Chung's death, d n R officer

646
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: Katie Stewara looked down and saw them on Jack Kuhn's feet.

647
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: She was talking to Kuhn about a separate enforcement issue

648
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: when she noticed the pair of swamp trackers, and she

649
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: informed detective Miller right away. Kuhn had remained on Miller's radar,

650
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: but this new information prompted another call down to the station.

651
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: Khon maintained his innocence throughout the course of this second

652
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: interview and didn't offer any further information, but what Detective

653
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: Miller had was enough to obtain a search warrant. An

654
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: officer seized three cell phones, three iPads, two laptop computers,

655
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: one USB drive, and one pair of hunting boots from

656
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: the trailer home where Kuhn lived.

657
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: With his wife.

658
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: Miller received a few additional tips from Kuhn's coworkers at

659
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: home depot, describing how the man would sometimes joke about

660
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: killing someone and became quote paranoid after finding out he

661
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: was being investigated for Chong's murder, But none of those

662
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: tips turned into hard evidence, and none of the items

663
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: seized from Kuhn's house yielded anything either. In fact, detective

664
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Miller eventually determined that Kuhn probably wasn't the guy he

665
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: was looking for.

666
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 4: The timeline didn't fit for him. He was working, he's

667
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 4: traveling back and forth, and so the timeline didn't fit

668
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: for the kind of that six to nine period there,

669
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 4: and then his cell phone data really didn't hit in

670
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 4: that area. Either though he lives in the area.

671
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: Detective Miller confirmed that on the day of the murder,

672
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: Kuhn had left the Okamas home depot in East Lansing

673
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: at four eighteen PM. Then his phone received a text

674
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: message from his bank at four twenty two that indicated

675
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: he'd withdrawn some money from an ATM near that home depot. Next,

676
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: he went across the street to Dick's Sporting Goods and

677
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: purchased a tree stand at four thirty four. After that,

678
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: he drove up to bath Township and made a debit

679
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: card with at a gas station at four fifty one,

680
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: and bought something else at a grocery store at four

681
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: fifty six. Finally, at six ten PM, right around the

682
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: time Chong was likely killed, his phone received another text

683
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: from his bank indicating he'd used his debit card again

684
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: at the same gas station in bath Township. When detective

685
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: Miller reviewed the location data from Kuhne's cell phone, it

686
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: correlated with the text messages he'd received. He was in

687
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: the bath Township area between five and seven PM on

688
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: the night of the murder, but the cell tower that

689
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: showed his phone's location also covered his home. What's more,

690
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: when that location data was transferred onto a map. The

691
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: circle of possible locations didn't extend very far into.

692
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 3: The state wildlife area.

693
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: There is a margin of error with location information, but

694
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: it seemed unlikely that Kun had been hunting that night.

695
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: He just didn't have enough time to be at all

696
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: those locations and get out to the wildlife area on

697
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: the same evening. Of course, someone else could have had

698
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,919
Speaker 1: Kuhn's phone and debit card. If he planned to kill

699
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: Cheng that night, he could have used an accomplice to

700
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: make it look like he was in areas where he

701
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: actually wasn't. Detective Miller tried to obtain surveillance footage from

702
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: the gas station and grocery stores Kuhn had visited.

703
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: But they had already deleted it.

704
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: Fortunately for Old Jack, this wasn't the only evidence that

705
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: eventually made investigators look elsewhere. Shortly after Chung died, Kun

706
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: texted his wife to inform her that Chung was killed

707
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: quote right by my stand, which is a weird thing

708
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: to say if you're the one who killed him. Kuhn

709
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: and his wife were also texting about him going to

710
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: the gas station and the store, which indicated he was

711
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: indeed at those locations. When Kuhn went out with Detective

712
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: Miller to show him his tree stand, Miller also noticed.

713
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 3: That Kun walked with a limp.

714
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 4: He had a sir walk to him where he would

715
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 4: drag his foot so like he would walk and drag,

716
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 4: And that day there was snow on the ground and

717
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: there were no prints that looked like that the area

718
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 4: where the way that he walked would create a drag.

719
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: Finally, and this information wasn't in the case report, but

720
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: did come out at the trial, the health app on

721
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: Kun's phone only showed him having walked thirteen hundred feet

722
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: between four pm and nine pm on the day of

723
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: the murder. I used on X to map the distance

724
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: from the parking lot to where Chung's body was found,

725
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 1: and it's just under a mile. This means that even

726
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: if Kun flew from his job at home depot to

727
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: the wildlife area, he couldn't have gotten out to Chung's

728
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: body and back without walking eight times farther.

729
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: Than his phone indicated.

730
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: None of this is entirely exonerating, but creating all these

731
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: false trails and fake evidence would have required an elaborate scheme.

732
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: And while I haven't met mister Kuhn myself, I can't

733
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,479
Speaker 1: help but wonder if detectives doubted his ability to pull

734
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: off something like that. In my mind, the family's opinion

735
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: of the investigation carries a lot of weight. I asked

736
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: Mavu what her experience was like working with Detective Miller,

737
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: and here's what she said.

738
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 2: At first, it was frustrating because I didn't understand why

739
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: they couldn't tell me everything. Like I was really angry

740
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: at first because again, my dad just got murdered. But

741
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: along the way, I started to understand why he was

742
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: treating everything the way he did. He was very professional

743
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: about everything. He did his best, you know what I mean,

744
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 2: Like he didn't want us to give our hopes up.

745
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: He was a hunter like all the police officers are

746
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: all hunters too, So this is not only a loss

747
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: to my family, but it was a loss to the

748
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: hunting community too.

749
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: As for Miller's decision to move on from Jack Kuhn,

750
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: Mavu thinks he made the right call.

751
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: I was definitely say, like bath Township, they did investigate him.

752
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: You know, everybody did their part because, like I said,

753
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: for a long period of time, that was the first

754
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: name that was kind of on my radar too. During

755
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: the investigation, I feel like bath Township did their diligent

756
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: job of eliminating him as a suspect or a person

757
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 2: of interest.

758
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: Jack Kun may have been suspect number one, but he

759
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: wasn't the only person the bath Township.

760
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: Police were looking at.

761
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: Two years into the investigation, two more names appeared on

762
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: Detective Miller's radar.

763
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: These individuals had.

764
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: Escaped scrutiny for a long time, but thanks to some

765
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: help from the FBI and a shocking interview all the

766
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: way down in Miami, their luck was about to run out.

767
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: That's next after the break Part four the comedians. Modern

768
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: technology makes our lives easier, but if you're a criminal,

769
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: that little device in your pocket can also be your

770
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: worst enemy.

771
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 4: The number one thing I learned from this case and

772
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 4: begging in all the core hearings is your phone has everything,

773
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: Like your cell phone has everything. And so basically what

774
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 4: happened was they did a search of phones that were

775
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 4: in the area, and then they kind of did process

776
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: of elimination, Right have we talked to this person, that person?

777
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: This person.

778
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Not long after Chung's murder, Detective Miller and his team

779
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: sent a search warrant to Google asking for information on

780
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: the devices in the Rose Lake area the afternoon and

781
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: evening of the incident. First, they requested device IDs and

782
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: location data. They eliminated devices that were just traveling along

783
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: the road or appeared to belong to people living in

784
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: nearby houses. Then they sent another search warrant to Google

785
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: requesting personal information associated with those device IDs, but this

786
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: process took time. In fact, it wasn't until July of

787
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, nearly two years after Chung's death, that Google

788
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: finally provided contact information for the owners of the devices

789
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: in question. One belonged to a woman who lived north

790
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: of the state wildlife area. She said she didn't hunt,

791
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: and none of the people living at her house did either,

792
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: but she drove through the wildlife area on her way

793
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: to work every day, which is why her phone was

794
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: inside those boundaries in the relevance timeframe.

795
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 3: The other device.

796
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: Belonged to a man named Thomas Olson, a thirty two

797
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: year old who had been the Clinton County Parks and

798
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: green Space coordinator from twenty fifteen until January of twenty twenty.

799
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: Clinton County includes Bath and most of the Rose Lake

800
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: Wildlife Area, so Miller knew that Olson lived locally, or

801
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: at least he used to. Miller soon discovered that in

802
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty, Olson had moved to Costa Rica

803
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: with his wife, who was a citizen of that country.

804
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: He was supposed to return in March of that year,

805
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: but never boarded the flight. Instead, he stayed in the

806
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: country and was in the process of securing residency in

807
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: Costa Rica while working remotely as a personal trainer. Miller

808
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: also discovered that Olson had obtained a hunting license in

809
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and the GPS data showed that he was

810
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: within six hundred yards of Chung's body on the night

811
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: of the murder. There's also a twelve minute gap in

812
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Olson's location data from six oh six to six eighteen

813
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: that evening, so it's possible he traveled even closer. I

814
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: should say here that the data investigators obtained from Google

815
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: was much more precise than the cell tower data they

816
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: got on Jack Coon's phone. This data is derived from

817
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: Google apps that have GPS enabled. This can be more

818
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: or less precise depending on the signal strength, and it

819
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: can sometimes cut in and out. But anyone who's used

820
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: on X to navigate through the Forest knows it's usually

821
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: pretty accurate. When Miller interviewed Olsen's coworkers, they remembered Olson

822
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: saying he went hunting on the night of the incident

823
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: with a friend of his named Robert Roadway. Olson had

824
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: said it was his first time hunting, and he had

825
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: to borrow a Remington eight seventy Express shotgun from his boss.

826
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 8: Like, I said, that was my first time, and I

827
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 8: believe it was Rob's first time hunting anything.

828
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 9: So we're kind of like going to know what we're doing.

829
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 3: That's Olsen.

830
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: He agreed to sit down for an interview with Miller

831
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: and FBI Special Agent Rhys McIntyre. Miller had asked for

832
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: the FBS help with some of the more technical aspects

833
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: of the investigation, such as analyzing the bullet fragments and

834
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: tracing cell phone data. As a federal agent, McIntyre was

835
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: also in a position to know that Olsen was planning

836
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 1: to fly back to Miami in June of twenty twenty

837
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: one to get a COVID shot. Miller had already been

838
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: in touch with Olsen via email, so he asked if

839
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: he could see Olson in person during his trip to Miami.

840
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: Olsen showed up to a Border Patrol office without a lawyer.

841
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: He signed a Miranda waiver and said he was happy

842
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: to help with whatever they needed. He started by giving

843
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: investigators a summary of what happened on the night of

844
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: November sixteenth, twenty eighteen.

845
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 8: We met out at one of little lass to the

846
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 8: south of Clark Clark Road in the statement, so, I

847
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 8: think I took work off that day, maybe of what

848
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 8: day was a Thursday or Friday on Pavey Friday, I

849
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 8: believe a.

850
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 10: Friday, So I think I took workoffs.

851
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 8: We could get out there, you know before because the

852
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 8: sundown happened so quick after work. So we're going to

853
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 8: get out there, you know, like midafternoon. Like I said,

854
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 8: We hung out a little bit and we're like, maybe

855
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 8: it's better if we separate. But again I have no

856
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 8: idea what we're doing. So Rob sort of went up

857
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 8: on this hill and then I said, Okay, well I'm

858
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 8: gonna push north and I'll tell you if I see something,

859
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 8: I'll text you. You see something, me just heading towards me,

860
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 8: let me know. And but it was really there was nothing.

861
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 8: I mean, we sat there, I think I maybe moved twice,

862
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 8: and I was like all R I forget this, you know,

863
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 8: so I started to trek back. I didn't We didn't

864
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 8: see anyone. I didn't see ayone else. I'm not sure

865
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 8: if Rob so that guy or what.

866
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, Olsen was hunting with a buddy of

867
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: his named Robert Roadway. About a week after Miller and

868
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: McIntyre spoke to Olson, McIntyre caught up with Roadway at

869
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: the Battle Creek Police Department, which is about fifty miles

870
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:42,760
Speaker 1: south of Lansing.

871
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 11: Tom and I waited till they got dark out there.

872
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 11: Tom came back. He was trying to I don't know

873
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 11: if he's trying to call me or text me, but

874
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 11: I waited where it was. He came to me, and

875
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 11: then we were walking out towards where we're going to

876
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 11: leave the woods.

877
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: The pair were interviewed almost three years after they went

878
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: hunting at Rose Lake, but they tell remarkably similar stories.

879
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: Rob said he saw a dough but it was too

880
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: dark to shoot and it soon ran away. Tom took

881
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: the lead trying to get back to their cars, but

882
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: both he and Rob claimed they got turned around and

883
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: it took them a while to find the road.

884
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 8: That's like I said in the statement when we heard

885
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 8: a shot and it sounded like to the north of

886
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 8: where we work as we were tracking back south.

887
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 9: But you know, we didn't think anything of it.

888
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 8: Somebody in their backyard or you know, it was just

889
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 8: weird because we were already thinking about these shooting hours, like, oh,

890
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 8: that was weird.

891
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 9: And then that was it.

892
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 11: That's all we thought that night when we were walking

893
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 11: out we heard a gunshot. We looked at each other

894
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 11: and both said, damn, somebody's poaching.

895
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 10: Is there any other reason why I stuck with you?

896
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 10: Was had you thought somebody was poaching?

897
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 12: Or no?

898
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 11: Just cause well, yeah, because we come back and back staying.

899
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 11: Somebody's dead. Yeah, you know, Tom, and I look at you.

900
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 11: Any damn somebody's poaching. Guess what twenty four hours later,

901
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 11: wasn't it could have not been a poacher.

902
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: They had parked in a lot off Clark Road and

903
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: then walked north into a section of the wildlife area,

904
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: but because they got lost in the woods, they came

905
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: out farther west than they intended, so they had to

906
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: walk back down the road to get to the parking lot,

907
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: where they saw they weren't the only ones with a

908
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: car still in the lot.

909
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 11: We saw the car and we said, damn, that guy's

910
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 11: lost more than us. We saw the silver cameray.

911
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: That silver Camra was Chung's car, and Olson and Broadways

912
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: say they both noted it before getting into their own

913
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: cars and leaving. They came back the next morning, Saturday,

914
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 1: and Rob says he arrived before Tom.

915
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 11: And I saw police officers around the road, and I'm like,

916
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 11: what a bunch of dicks. Sorry, because you're trying to

917
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 11: give us speeding tickets. It's like Opening weekend. You're giving

918
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 11: up speeding tickets.

919
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: Right. Rob called Tom to tell him about all the

920
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: commotion and that he'd spoken to a police officer. When

921
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: Olsen got out of his car, he says he spoke

922
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: to the same man.

923
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 8: I gave him my phone number and address and everything.

924
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 8: Basically the recounting of the night before.

925
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: The problem was there wasn't any evidence that either Rob

926
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: or Tom had spoken to anyone that morning.

927
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:56,240
Speaker 3: Here's Detective Miller.

928
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 13: Rob made it clear that it was a Bad Township

929
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 13: police officer.

930
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 14: Specifically, I gotta tell you, Tom, it's not true he

931
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 14: had talked to.

932
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 13: A police officer.

933
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: The Bath Township Police Department isn't a large one, so

934
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: it wasn't difficult for Detective Miller to track down the

935
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: officers who were there that day, and none of them

936
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: recalled speaking with either Rob or Tom. What's more, neither

937
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: man could recall the officer's name or provide a definite description.

938
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 13: Remember what he looked like.

939
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 9: I think he was taller, I mean, like I said, taller,

940
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 9: wet guy. But I'm not.

941
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 8: I can't give you the exactly I mean, it was

942
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 8: so quick, it was like a five minute thing, and

943
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,479
Speaker 8: then I went out to be Rob.

944
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 14: So all that had information is recorded, though, Like there's

945
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 14: no way it could have happened with without it being recorded,

946
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 14: and it wasn't recorded, Like that's just something that it

947
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 14: didn't happen.

948
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 13: Tom, I spoke, I'm not.

949
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 10: I mean, I'm not. I don't want to lie.

950
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 9: Nothing to lie about had nothing to do with it.

951
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 14: I know, I know you had said before that you

952
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 14: had talked to I can't remember if you said a

953
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 14: police officer, but Rob said specifically a Bath Township police officer,

954
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 14: a white man, and they can of a vague description

955
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 14: that could be any one of us us. The fact

956
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 14: matter is there was only two guys out there, and

957
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 14: it wasn't them like it doesn't make sense, and that's

958
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 14: we're just never going to be able to get over that.

959
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: This point is important beyond the fact that it might

960
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: indicate a willingness to lie to a police officer. Both

961
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: Rob and Tom admitted that they were aware of Chung's murder.

962
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: So why didn't they come forward to tell investigators what

963
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: they knew? Is it because they were trying to hide

964
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: their presence in the woods that night, or was there

965
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: a more innocent explanation Their story about talking to a

966
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: police officer wasn't the only indication that they might be

967
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: trying to hide something. When Tom had driven to Rose

968
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: Lake that afternoon, he took a direct route, exiting Highway

969
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: sixty nine at the Bath exit and then taking Clark

970
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: Road east to the wildlife area, but Tom's phone indicated

971
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: that he'd take it a much more circuitous route on

972
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: his drive home. Here's Special Agent McIntyre walking him through it.

973
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 15: But then all the way back that night, he took

974
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 15: a lot of off roads and cut through a lot of neighborhoods.

975
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,280
Speaker 9: No, I mean, not that I remember.

976
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 15: Because I mean, this is definitely not one of those

977
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 15: direct paths, you know, because this is.

978
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 10: The lake area right here, and so oh, I see.

979
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 15: You know, when I zoom in and kind of like

980
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 15: follow the ant trail, there's a lot of you know,

981
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 15: smaller roads taken and cutting through a lot of neighborhoods.

982
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 10: So I was just curious why you took that sort

983
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 10: of route to get home.

984
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 8: And I don't even remember doing that the best of

985
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 8: my knowledgy, I just went right home.

986
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 15: If you weren't, by any chance, like you know, worried

987
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 15: about somebody seen you in that area or law enforcement

988
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 15: or anything, no.

989
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 9: Definitely not.

990
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 8: And we didn't know anything. We're just so I was

991
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 8: just gonna go home, or I didn't go home, I'm assuming.

992
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 1: The next morning, November seventeenth, Tom's phone indicated that he

993
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: drove the more direct route he'd taken the previous afternoon

994
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: after hunting. That morning, he took the same direct route home.

995
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: Tom wasn't able to offer an explanation for his driving

996
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: decisions the night of Chum's murder, so Miller and McIntyre

997
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: moved dawn to other relevant topics.

998
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 13: What kind of boots were you were?

999
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 9: It was just like I said, part of that it

1000
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 9: was a brown waiter.

1001
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 13: Then have you held onto those hunt clothes.

1002
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 9: No, probably not, since I moved. Probably not.

1003
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 8: I may have maybe gave it and given them to somebody,

1004
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 8: but I kind of just got rid of everything when

1005
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:18,240
Speaker 8: I moved.

1006
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 9: I can't take a whole lot.

1007
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: Tom had taken a photo of himself the day of

1008
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: that first hunt, and he appeared to be wearing brown

1009
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: waiters with boots attached, not the swamp tracker boots investigators

1010
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: were looking for. Both Tom and Rob admitted to carrying

1011
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: shotguns that day, but neither could remember what kind of

1012
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: ammunition they used.

1013
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 11: I don't know for sure what I used.

1014
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 13: I didn't use buckshot.

1015
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 11: It would have probably been a slug, which is the

1016
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 11: ball at the end of the cartridge. I started to

1017
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 11: get in sabot rounds for more like a rifle round.

1018
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 13: Did you buy your own animal?

1019
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 9: I believe I bought my own.

1020
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 13: Do you remember what kind of.

1021
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 8: I think I bought a couple different guinds. I think

1022
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 8: one was a slug type and another one was like

1023
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 8: a bug shot. Well, like I said, I don't remember

1024
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 8: the one for aug I'm leaning towards the slug.

1025
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: Just as an aside here, this is a great example

1026
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: of why investigators don't release crime scene information to the public.

1027
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: If Rob and Tom had known the forensic pathologists had

1028
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: found two pieces of copper jacket and Chung's wound, they

1029
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: would have known to say they used buckshot or an

1030
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: all lead slug. Instead, Rob mentioned SABO slugs and Tom

1031
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: calls what he used a slug type. This assumes they're

1032
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: guilty and wanted to deceive investigators, which might not be true,

1033
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: but it's still interesting how they described their ammunition given

1034
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: what investigators knew at the time. Tom's interview wound its

1035
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: way around many of these same topics, with Miller and

1036
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: McIntyre repeating some questions over the three hour interview to

1037
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,280
Speaker 1: see if Tom would give the same response. Tom denied

1038
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,959
Speaker 1: knowing anything about Chung's gun, backpack, and knife and didn't

1039
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: think Rob knew anything either.

1040
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 15: Do you think there's any chance that Rob did something

1041
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 15: out there that like maybe you weren't aware of or.

1042
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 9: Rob, there's no way, it's just not Yeah, it's just

1043
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 9: not him at all.

1044
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 14: Evin, in the realm of that, I understand you're saying

1045
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 14: that it's not him, and I mean it wouldn't be

1046
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 14: any of us. But I think what happened is an accident.

1047
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 13: Which can happen. To believe me, I know very well.

1048
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 13: You know, accidents happen and people make mistakes. I've done

1049
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 13: it too many times.

1050
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 8: I get it, I understand. But no, I mean there's

1051
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 8: just no I cannot see Rob. You know, like you said,

1052
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 8: you're not yourself if you do something like that. But

1053
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,799
Speaker 8: you know, the only shot that we heard that day

1054
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 8: was when we were back and packing up.

1055
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: The pair had hunted in separate locations, so they couldn't

1056
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: have known for sure what their hunting partner was doing.

1057
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: But when the same question was posed to Rob, he

1058
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: was even more adamant that his friend had nothing to

1059
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: do with Chung's death.

1060
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 15: Is there any possible way when y'all separated that he

1061
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 15: could have got into an accident like this?

1062
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 11: That is like such a that's not even appropriate question

1063
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 11: to ask, because I mean, I mean, I'm not trying

1064
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 11: to sound like an idiot or an asshole. Sorry, just where,

1065
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 11: but like I could say that, Okay, is it possible

1066
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 11: the neighbor came out of their house and did it,

1067
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 11: or is it possible that somebody sat there in cancer

1068
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 11: for two weeks? I strongly believe from the bottom of

1069
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 11: my heart. No, Like I'm comming accidentally shoot somebody.

1070
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: Another thing investigators wanted to know was whether Tom or

1071
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: Rob held any kind of racial animus.

1072
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 3: Towards among people.

1073
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: None of their public social media posts indicated a bias,

1074
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: but Miller wanted to make sure you ever heard Rob.

1075
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 13: Make any kind of racist statements?

1076
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 14: Not want me, No, No, I don't know if you've

1077
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 14: kept how much, how much you've kept up with it,

1078
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 14: what you know about this.

1079
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 13: But this guy was among and a lot of people.

1080
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 14: I think kind of hence FBI being involved to think

1081
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 14: this was a hay crime, Okay, And I'm just wondering

1082
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 14: if there was something there if I don't know enough.

1083
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 13: About Rob to say whether or not.

1084
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 14: And that's why I ask you, But could there be

1085
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 14: bad blood for one reason on another from him?

1086
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 12: No?

1087
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 9: Rob's a friendly guy, okay, I can't.

1088
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 12: I mean.

1089
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 8: Not race is not going to go out of his

1090
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 8: way to do anything. Yeah, even to the lesser cent.

1091
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 8: You don't even say anything.

1092
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: So both Tom and Rob claim to be using different

1093
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 1: phones from the ones they had in twenty eighteen. Tom

1094
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: said he still had his old phone and was willing

1095
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: to surrender it, but he claimed it no longer held

1096
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: a charge and was still in Costa Rica. When asked

1097
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: if he had any text message history with Rob on

1098
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: his current phone, he denied it.

1099
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 8: No, it's on the other phone, which is like, you

1100
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,879
Speaker 8: can't even turn it on, but that's in the ghost.

1101
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 9: But no, I don't have any texting history with him.

1102
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: But Detective Miller refused to be put off.

1103
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 13: I just I have this feeling Tom something else here. Look,

1104
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 13: I'm totally and I appreciate it. I just I just

1105
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 13: keep getting this feeling.

1106
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 14: You know, I've taken hundreds of hours of courses to

1107
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,919
Speaker 14: interviews and detecting deception and help people act when they're

1108
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 14: when they're not being truthful the words they choose, And

1109
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 14: I'm seeing that in you.

1110
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 13: Man, I have.

1111
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 9: Nothing at all to hide. I'm trying. I've told you

1112
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 9: everything that I know.

1113
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: At this point, they'd been talking with Tom for almost

1114
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: two hours. It was getting later in the evening, and

1115
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: Miller figured he'd try one more thing while they had

1116
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: Tom in the room.

1117
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 14: Can I look in that phone just to verify that

1118
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 14: there are no messages between you and Rob?

1119
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 8: Well, you know, there may be WhatsApp messages between us.

1120
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 8: I don't know if I have him on what's that

1121
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 8: on me particular, but you're asking from that time those

1122
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 8: text messages will be.

1123
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 14: And yeah, just so look, we came all the way here,

1124
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 14: we gotta I was only able to obtain the audio

1125
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 14: recording of this interview, so I can't tell you anything

1126
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,439
Speaker 14: about the body language of the three men in the room,

1127
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 14: but Detective Miller noted in his report that Tom's hand

1128
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 14: was visibly shaking as he handed over the phone.

1129
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: Detective Miller went silent for several minutes while Tom and

1130
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: Agent McIntyre continued discussing various aspects of the case.

1131
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 3: But then, dude, it's Sully.

1132
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: Detective Miller doesn't answer, and the next twenty seconds are

1133
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: filled with what you might call a pregnant pause. You

1134
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: can honestly feel the tension coming through the microphone. Agent

1135
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: McIntyre continues the interview as Miller scrolls through Tom's phone

1136
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: for another eight minutes, until dude.

1137
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 13: The racist stuff is concerning the.

1138
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 14: Racist stuff, Yeah, Hal Hitler and the Jews, And I.

1139
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 9: Mean it's just a kind of a dark sense of humor.

1140
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:55,879
Speaker 13: Man, you think that's what at all?

1141
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, if you know rot those jokes are common,

1142
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 8: but none of it's like I don't even know what's

1143
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 8: in there.

1144
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 10: But it's common for him to have said dark kind

1145
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 10: of racist jokes.

1146
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 8: Well just yeah, I mean jokes that are gonna get

1147
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 8: out there on the edge a little bit.

1148
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 15: So well, I guess what specific mess it is like

1149
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 15: in a course of the racist jokes, you know that

1150
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 15: he makes us that's you know, obviously everybody does jokes

1151
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 15: and whatever else.

1152
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 8: But yeah, well what you said earlier is Rob a

1153
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 8: racist makes those jokes. But I don't believe that he

1154
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 8: honestly thinks any of that. I mean, he does it

1155
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 8: for a reaction.

1156
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: It was a tough pill to swallow. Olsen had sent

1157
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: a text that read, quote efing Jews up the ticket prices,

1158
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: so I bought one. Another text said efing and then

1159
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: racial slur for Chinese people, while another said Hyle Hitler.

1160
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,919
Speaker 1: In another text, Olsen complained about there being quote too

1161
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: many minorities here not enough.

1162
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 3: Whites makes me sick.

1163
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: Rob's side of the conversation was equally racist, but a

1164
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: legal perspective, talking about putting Jews in ghettos was the

1165
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 1: least of their problems. The pair had talked not just

1166
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: about minorities in general, but about Chung Yang in particular,

1167
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: So what.

1168
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 14: Do you mean what does it mean by I'm hoping

1169
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 14: civilization collapses and we got basic hunter gatherers right to

1170
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 14: bath to hunt more people.

1171
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 8: Who said robson then, like I said, I mean, it's

1172
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 8: a sense of humor thing China, your reaction boys mean.

1173
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 15: By to hunt more people though, especially and even specifically

1174
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 15: a saying Bath.

1175
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 9: I mean playing on on this as a joke.

1176
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 10: And you didn't feel that that was relevant to you.

1177
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 14: I mean it's there's another one where you guys are

1178
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 14: parked at a D N R range there a lot

1179
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 14: and it says.

1180
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 13: Going back to the crime scene.

1181
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 9: Like I said, it's a joke.

1182
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:57,479
Speaker 13: This isn't a fucking joke.

1183
00:58:58,200 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 9: I understand.

1184
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 13: You gotta kidding me with.

1185
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 8: This shit, I understand, But these are just jokes. I mean,

1186
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 8: this is dark humor.

1187
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 14: I hope you're one hundred percent sure by that, because

1188
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 14: you know what it looks like a hate crime now, man.

1189
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 9: There's no they have no reason to do that, absolutely not.

1190
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 9: Look he's making jokes, that's all it is.

1191
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: It's worth pointing out here that just a few minutes

1192
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: before Tom had said there weren't any text messages on

1193
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: the phone between him and Rob. He backtracked later and

1194
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: said there might be what that messages, but he wasn't

1195
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: even sure about that.

1196
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 14: So everybody knows that Rob just makes racist jokes about

1197
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 14: murdering people.

1198
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 10: Rob's gonna take anything and make.

1199
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 14: A joke reward for him, No way, LMAO. Haven't caught

1200
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 14: yet us. One suspect has fled the country.

1201
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 13: It's a joke?

1202
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 12: Is there?

1203
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 13: All jokes once in a while as a joke. This

1204
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 13: is a freaking joke, man.

1205
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 9: I'm just That's what I'm saying. I mean, these are

1206
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 9: all jokes. You're lying. I'm not lying about anything.

1207
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 10: I don't know what you mean, Tom, who shot this guy?

1208
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 9: Look, I don't know. I'm telling you the truth. Everything

1209
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 9: that's said in there is just in ingest as a

1210
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 9: dark joke. I do not know any that other than

1211
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 9: what I've already told you.

1212
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 13: Was it you? Was it?

1213
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 3: Rob?

1214
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 13: Is that something we we just?

1215
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 8: I mean, I know it wasn't me for sure, and

1216
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 8: I'm almost one hundred.

1217
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 9: Percent positive that how could it have been robbed?

1218
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 14: I mean, this is we should choot cups over here

1219
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 14: as a protest and then put Jews and ghettos goddamn jews.

1220
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 14: I mean, we killed that guy. You don't see us

1221
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 14: crying about it. The joke, Tom, this isn't a joke,

1222
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 14: this is this is over man.

1223
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 13: I'm sorry. You need to see the fucking light here.

1224
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 10: Look it's it's These are all jokes.

1225
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 16: I mean, this is just the sense of h So

1226
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 16: you were the only two out there in the woods

1227
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 16: when this guy was killed, and then you talk about

1228
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 16: it constantly and how you murdered him, and it's just

1229
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 16: that's the joke.

1230
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 9: It's all jokes.

1231
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:01,959
Speaker 12: Yes.

1232
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: When Rob was asked about these text messages about a

1233
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: week later, he said pretty much the same thing.

1234
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 13: It's a complete joke.

1235
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 11: I know that you guys look at that and say, oh,

1236
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 11: we're gonna go chase this league as these guys did

1237
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 11: as our sick human.

1238
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, I understand the past mesage you.

1239
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 11: Guys have seen, if you've got from his film between

1240
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 11: him and us do not look good.

1241
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 5: But there's nothing behind it.

1242
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 13: Okay, So that usier than just.

1243
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 11: Two close friends being idiots.

1244
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 1: In some of these texts, Tom and Rob joke about

1245
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,479
Speaker 1: Detective Miller's investigation. You can see why they'd be talking

1246
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: about being investigated for murder. But Agent McIntyre points out

1247
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 1: that they were talking about Chung long before they came

1248
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: under any kind of legal scrutiny. In one text from

1249
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 1: September of twenty twenty, they shared an image of one

1250
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: of the reward posters Maivu had made. In another text

1251
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: from April of that year, Tom sent Rob a picture

1252
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: of the pair of them and hunting gear standing in

1253
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,959
Speaker 1: a DNR parking lot. The text under the photo said,

1254
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: a couple of cold blooded killers revisiting the crime scene.

1255
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 11: We have different humor than other people. It is a

1256
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 11: not tasteful joke. It's not taste well, I understand it

1257
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 11: just got released to the public. These guys are complete

1258
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 11: asshole as I understand it.

1259
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: But we are close friends.

1260
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 11: If there's any questioning about the tax messages, that's a

1261
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 11: blankest nayment for it. We can go into each taxt

1262
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 11: message and say, I'm sure there's plenty of stuff you

1263
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 11: guys can say, I know what we've texted each other.

1264
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 11: People could look at it like all of these guys

1265
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 11: freaking it.

1266
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 12: We're joking.

1267
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 9: We were joking, that's it.

1268
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: Detective Miller was clearly not buying Rob's excuse. He had

1269
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: the pair near the crime scene on the night of

1270
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: the murder, they appeared to be lying about speaking to

1271
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: a police officer. Tom had taken a suspiciously meandering route

1272
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: back home, and now they'd been caught either joking about

1273
01:02:55,720 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: murdering Chong or actually confessing to the crime. It would

1274
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 1: only take two more pieces of evidence, one nearly overlooked

1275
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: item from the crime scene and one digital trail that

1276
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: couldn't be laughed away to finally push this investigation out

1277
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: of the shadows.

1278
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 3: And into a courtroom.

1279
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: That's next after the break, Part five the trial. Things

1280
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: didn't look good for Rob Broadway and Tom Olsen, but

1281
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: it was about to get even worse, especially for Tom.

1282
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: Remember that bottle of scent killer detectives had collected about

1283
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: three hundred yards from the crime scene, the one they

1284
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: found by following the same kind of bootprints discovered around

1285
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:51,439
Speaker 1: Chung's body. They compared the DNA on that bottle to

1286
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,479
Speaker 1: Tom's and it.

1287
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 3: Was a match.

1288
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: This didn't prove definitively that Tom had been to the

1289
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 1: crime scene, but it did provide yet another piece of

1290
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: evidence linking Tom to the murder.

1291
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 13: What did you drop in the woods at a water bottle?

1292
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 8: And I think I don't know if it fell out

1293
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 8: or not, but I had deer spray in the bag.

1294
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 13: Where do you think that fell out at them? I

1295
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 13: don't know.

1296
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 9: Back there somewhere.

1297
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 14: There was only two sets of footprints there, okay, and

1298
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 14: one of them didn't return.

1299
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 9: I don't always tell me. I've told you.

1300
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 13: Come on, mabe, I neck the bats.

1301
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 9: There's nothing more that I can say. I mean, I've

1302
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 9: told you everything than that.

1303
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: Detective Miller hadn't confiscated either man's phone by the time

1304
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: of this interview, but after some haggling, Tom agreed to

1305
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: surrender his phone. That day, Rob also had his phone confiscated,

1306
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: and what they found provided the final piece of evidence

1307
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: they needed before going to trial. Rob's Google account search

1308
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: history only went back to twenty twenty one, so that

1309
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 1: wasn't much use to investigators, but Tom's history went back

1310
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: to the days surrounding Chong's murder, and, much like the

1311
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: text message, it told a concerning story. Remember, Chang was

1312
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: murdered on November sixteenth, which was a Friday. The local

1313
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: news didn't start reporting that a hunter had been killed

1314
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: at Rose Lake until November eighteenth, but on November seventeenth,

1315
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 1: Tom searched for bath Township Police Twitter four times, Clinton

1316
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: County Sheriff twice, and the term missing hunter twice. The

1317
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: next day, he searched bath Township Police Twitter another four times,

1318
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: the term hunter killed once, and he read five different

1319
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 1: articles about Chong's death, all on.

1320
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 3: The same day.

1321
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 1: He continued this pattern of search history over the next week,

1322
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: but he also looked up roth IRA, early withdrawal penalty

1323
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: and deferred comp withdrawal, along with queries like United States

1324
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: and Costa Rica extradition treaty and US lawsuit living in

1325
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: Costa Rica. On March nineteenth, twenty twenty, Tom searched how

1326
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: to delete WhatsApp group messages and if I delete a

1327
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: message from WhatsApp group chat, will they get deleted? On

1328
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: July second, twenty twenty, he searched discarding Sabo and Sabo round.

1329
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 1: All these searches were conducted prior to him knowing about

1330
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 1: being under investigation for Chong's murder. Now, you might argue

1331
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: that those searches just proved that Tom was interested in

1332
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: a local crime story. Tom said he'd seen police cars

1333
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: at Rose Lake the morning after their first hunt, and

1334
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: he'd even spoken to an officer. If his story is true,

1335
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: it makes sense that he'd search for bath Township's Twitter

1336
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: feed to find out what had happened. But as Detective

1337
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 1: Miller said about the text messages, one or two searches

1338
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: make sense. Tom and Rob seemed to be obsessed with

1339
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: this case, and that, combined with the other evidence, convinced

1340
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: prosecutors with the Michigan Attorney General's Office to move forward

1341
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: with charges. On December twenty second, twenty twenty two, the

1342
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: Michigan AG's Office announced that Tom and Rob had both

1343
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: been arrested one count of felony murder and one count

1344
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: of felony firearm.

1345
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 3: I asked my.

1346
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 1: Vou what it was like after four years of waiting

1347
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: to see someone arrested for the murder of her father, all.

1348
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: The years that we've been trying to find answers to

1349
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 2: my dad. You know, everybody always asks me, like, if

1350
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 2: you've ever seen these two individuals, what would you say

1351
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 2: to them? And I always say, like, I don't know

1352
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 2: what I will say. I just want to look them

1353
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 2: in the eyes and see they're human, you know what

1354
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 2: I mean? Like, how could you leave an elderly sixty

1355
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: year eight year old man shot in the back of

1356
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 2: the head, lying in the cold snow and just let

1357
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: him die. I just wanted to see if they were human,

1358
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 2: you know, So to see that they both were very human,

1359
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 2: it just made it a lot harder, I guess. And

1360
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: just to know like they were not that much older

1361
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: than I am. We're like in the same age group.

1362
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 2: It just kind of like it was really hard to

1363
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 2: believe like that this is happening, but.

1364
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 3: It was happening.

1365
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: And as my vow explained, it was like closing one

1366
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: child in a book and opening another. Detective Miller had

1367
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: sent all the evidence he collected to the AG's office

1368
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: and it was up to them to put it all

1369
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: together in a way that would convince a jury. Based

1370
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: on what you've heard so far, that might not sound

1371
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: like a heavy lift.

1372
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 3: But nine months.

1373
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: After they'd arrested Rob Broadway, and one day before his

1374
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: trial was set to begin, the AG's office made a

1375
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 1: shocking announcement.

1376
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 17: A man charged with the murder of a hunter in

1377
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 17: bath Township five years ago is free tonight. The charges

1378
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 17: against Robert Rodway and Clinton County were dropped this morning.

1379
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 17: Roadway's attorney tells News ten he was released from jail

1380
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 17: this morning. The case was dismissed without prejudice, which means

1381
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 17: those charges can be refiled in the future.

1382
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 1: This is one part of the case I'm still trying

1383
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 1: to wrap my head around. I asked Joseph Yang about it,

1384
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: and he explained that the decision was largely due to

1385
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:55,560
Speaker 1: the fact that investigators were able to scrape more information

1386
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: from Tom's phone than from Rob's.

1387
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 4: They do not have the text messages directly off of

1388
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 4: Rodway's phone. It's just off of Olsen's phone, and so

1389
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 4: that's where the judge created that barrier, because Olsen's phone

1390
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 4: was here, you go, do what you want, look at

1391
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 4: what you want. Rodway's phone was a search warrant and

1392
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 4: they were not able to get that information off of

1393
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 4: his phone, and so because of that, judge felt like

1394
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 4: only Olsen can have one hundred percent, whereas if they

1395
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 4: want to use those text messages for Roadway, they can,

1396
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 4: but only Rodway's words and not Olsen's words.

1397
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 1: You can see how important those text messages were for

1398
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: the prosecution. While prosecutors acknowledged that some of the messages

1399
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: could have been made in jest, Joseph takes them more seriously.

1400
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 4: To me, it was tantamount to a confession two cold

1401
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:47,920
Speaker 4: blood killers going back to the scene of the crime.

1402
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,680
Speaker 4: We killed that guy. You don't see us crying like

1403
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 4: to me, that's cant amount to a confession, And the

1404
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 4: defense tried to blame it as kind of dark humor

1405
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 4: and stuff. You know, dark humor is a one off comment,

1406
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 4: not a continuous conversation continuously going back to the scene

1407
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 4: of the crime.

1408
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: It's a strong argument, but it's not bulletproof, as prosecutors

1409
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: discovered during Tom Olsen's trial. The trial began with opening

1410
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: arguments on Tuesday, February thirteenth, twenty twenty four, and ended

1411
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: nine days later. Tom's father is an attorney, and so

1412
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: he was able to hire a team of lawyers to

1413
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: defend his son. On the other side of the case,

1414
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 1: Michigan Assistant Attorney General Richard Cunningham argued for the people,

1415
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: Cunningham had a steep hill to climb. Most of the

1416
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: evidence against Tom was circumstantial. They hadn't found Chung's gun, backpack,

1417
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: or knife. Tom's DNA wasn't found anywhere on Chung's body,

1418
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,839
Speaker 1: and they'd never found boots in Tom's possession that matched

1419
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: the prince at the crime scene. They had never found

1420
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: the murder weapon or even identified the caliber or projectile.

1421
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: The texts and Google searches were damning, but if you

1422
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 1: squint and tilt your head could be explained. One of

1423
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: Tom's lawyers, a man named Michael Manly, argued that the

1424
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: evidence wasn't strong enough to dispel all reasonable doubt, which

1425
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: is the standard for convicting someone of murder.

1426
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:17,799
Speaker 18: There is zero evidence linking mister Olson to this crime.

1427
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:22,599
Speaker 18: There is no eye witness, none that says mister Olson

1428
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 18: did this. There is zero DNA that links mister Olson

1429
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:29,639
Speaker 18: to this crime.

1430
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: One of the most important pieces of evidence the defense

1431
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: submitted was a photo Tom took the day of Chong's death.

1432
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 3: It showed the top of the boot he.

1433
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,880
Speaker 1: Was wearing, and an FBI analysis confirmed that they weren't

1434
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: swamp tracker boots.

1435
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 18: You knew exactly what boat he was wearing on the sixteenth,

1436
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 18: So to say we didn't know what boot he was

1437
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:57,679
Speaker 18: wearing is mistaken. It's mistaken, it says eleven, sixteen, twenty eighteen.

1438
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 18: And in my opening I said that picture might have

1439
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 18: saved his life. Given the arguments that are being made,

1440
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 18: that picture may have saved his life.

1441
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: Now this isn't exactly true either. The FBI determined that

1442
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: Tom wasn't wearing a swamp tracker boot, but they couldn't

1443
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: positively identify an exact make and model of the boot

1444
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,839
Speaker 1: he was wearing. The Olsons claimed the frog tog waiters

1445
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 1: that they had supposedly found in Tom's car several years

1446
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: later were the same ones he was wearing that day.

1447
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 1: That could be true based on the photo, but the

1448
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: fact is no one could prove one way or the

1449
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: other what the tread on Tom's boot looked like on

1450
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:39,719
Speaker 1: the day of the murder. The prosecution also submitted evidence

1451
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,640
Speaker 1: to suggest the swamp tracker pattern had been copied and

1452
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,840
Speaker 1: ripped off by other companies, so even if Tom's boot

1453
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: wasn't a field and stream, it could have used the

1454
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 1: same tread pattern. What we do know is that the

1455
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: Sen spray found in the woods was Tom Olsen's, and

1456
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 1: there was only one set of prints leading to and

1457
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: from that plastic bag. Either Tom dropped it there, which

1458
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 1: would suggest he was also walking around Chung's body, or

1459
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,839
Speaker 1: the murderer picked it up somewhere else in the woods

1460
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 1: and dropped it on the other side of the ledger.

1461
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 1: The prosecution called a witness who said he'd seen two

1462
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:17,839
Speaker 1: men walking along Clark Road on the night of the murder.

1463
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 1: They matched the description of Tom and Rob, and crucially,

1464
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: one of them was carrying two firearms and wearing sneakers.

1465
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 3: Remember Tom and Rob.

1466
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: Both said that they'd had to walk back down Clark

1467
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 1: Road that night to get to their cars. Here's Agent

1468
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:36,440
Speaker 1: McIntyre asking Tom about that witness testimony.

1469
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 15: Tom, we've smote to somebody who said that they saw

1470
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:41,640
Speaker 15: two individuals at night walking on the side of the.

1471
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 10: Road and with three guns.

1472
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 9: I mean I had mine and Rob had his.

1473
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 8: He only had one four and I can recollect. Yeah,

1474
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 8: I mean I think it would be weird if he

1475
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 8: had an.

1476
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,559
Speaker 14: Extra night Do you remember what the victim's car was,

1477
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 14: but you don't remember if he had two guns? Oh,

1478
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 14: you don't remember if like the details't match up.

1479
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 8: Tom, Okay, let me, to the best of my alledge,

1480
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 8: drop ahead one gun and it would be weird to

1481
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 8: me if he had an extra gun.

1482
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for the prosecution, the defense was able to poke

1483
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 1: some holes in that testimony. The witness who claimed to

1484
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: have seen the two men had initially said he saw

1485
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:21,719
Speaker 1: them around nine pm, but Tom's phone showed him driving

1486
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 1: home well before this. The witness later changed his statement

1487
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: to say he was driving home about two hours after sunset,

1488
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: which would have been around the right time, but his

1489
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 1: shifting timetables likely didn't play well with the jury and

1490
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: gave Tom's defense a leg to stand on when they

1491
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: said there were no witnesses to the crime. The defense

1492
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 1: also spent a long time pointing out the lack of

1493
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 1: ballistic evidence in this case.

1494
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 18: Zero ballistics in this case zero Now, we did it.

1495
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 18: First time the detective ever saw the ballistics was when

1496
01:14:58,400 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 18: we showed it to him.

1497
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,720
Speaker 1: What mainly is referencing here is a video that was

1498
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 1: played during the trial that shows a ballistic dummy head

1499
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: being shot with a twelve gage shotgun slug from about

1500
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: fifty feet away.

1501
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 18: These are sophisticated ballistic dummy heads. He sought for the

1502
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 18: first time of what a twelve gage shotgun I thought of? Unfortunately,

1503
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 18: it reminded me of President Kennedy in the Zapruder film.

1504
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 1: The defense argued that if Tom had shot Chung, it

1505
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: would have caused a much larger wound. They also used

1506
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 1: the opportunity to bring up the fact that Jack Kuhn

1507
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: had a forty five caliber muzzleloader at his home, which

1508
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 1: the defense said would have caused a wound more consistent

1509
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: with the one found in Chung's head. The problem was,

1510
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 1: as the forensic pathologist pointed out, this experiment relied on

1511
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: a lot of assumptions. First, there's nothing to say the

1512
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:55,600
Speaker 1: slug had been fired from fifty feet away. Chong was

1513
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: shot in a wooded area, but there's a large open

1514
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 1: space about one hundred yards to the west and clearings

1515
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: to the south and east. Second, as doctor Wilson testified,

1516
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 1: and as most hunters know, it's incredibly difficult to predict

1517
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: what a bullet will do once it makes contact with skin, muscle,

1518
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: and bone.

1519
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 3: The wound can.

1520
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: Change based on the elasticity of the skin, whether the

1521
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: bullet hits a bone, the structure of that bone, and

1522
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: of course, how fast the bullet is traveling.

1523
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 3: Here's assistant A. G.

1524
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 19: Cunningham to have some indication of some off the wall

1525
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 19: demonstration that scientifically unreliable would not be something to be

1526
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 19: follow up on. How do we know it's scientifically not reliable,

1527
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 19: doctor Wilson, Jesus, there's no way in the world you

1528
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 19: can tell what kind of caliber made that whole.

1529
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: The boots, the witness, and the ballistics were important parts

1530
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 1: of the trial, but what everyone really wanted to hear

1531
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 1: was how each side would handle the text messages.

1532
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 18: Text messages jokes, they weren't even funny, and when it

1533
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 18: started to get serious, they're like, hey, we need to

1534
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 18: tell the truth. Cooperate. Detective Miller read it and said, hey,

1535
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 18: don't worry, they're going to do ballistics.

1536
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 13: It'll clear us. We'll we're fine. And then they don't

1537
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 13: do ballistics, and here we are.

1538
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: The defense acknowledged that Tom and Rob sent disgusting racist texts,

1539
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 1: but they claimed that the men were joking and as

1540
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: you just heard manly reference. They also submitted other texts

1541
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 1: between the pair that seemed to suggest their innocence. One

1542
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,839
Speaker 1: text from Tom to Rob said, quote, but after calling

1543
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 1: my dad, we decided not to as it sounded like

1544
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 1: they were doing ballistics anyway, which is what will clear

1545
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: us regardless. Another read quote, I gave them everything since

1546
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: we have nothing to hide anyway. In another, Rob tells

1547
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: Tom that he's quote shocked that the investigation is real,

1548
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: and Tom responds, just be open with them. It's easy

1549
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:03,640
Speaker 1: to just be honest obviously for us, since we already.

1550
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 3: Told them the truth.

1551
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: At one point, Rob tells Tom that he's been contacted

1552
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 1: by the police, and Tom says, quote, what the hell

1553
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:15,520
Speaker 1: that's weird. Rob responds, this is how people get wrongly convicted,

1554
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: to which Tom replies, they're probably following up from last year.

1555
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,599
Speaker 3: My dad will bring the hammer down. Lol.

1556
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 1: All of those exchanges happened after both men knew they

1557
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: were being investigated, So depending on how smart you think

1558
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: they are, it's plausible they could be laying the groundwork

1559
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 1: for exactly this defense. But if that's not the case,

1560
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:41,880
Speaker 1: these messages do indeed point towards innocence. The prosecution mostly

1561
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 1: just allowed Tom's words to speak for themselves. However, they

1562
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,080
Speaker 1: also use those texts and his defense of them as

1563
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: a joke to construct a crucial part of this story.

1564
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:59,400
Speaker 1: We still haven't mentioned motive. What exactly happened in those woods.

1565
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 1: If Tom did what the prosecution says he did, what

1566
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: motivated him to pull the trigger? Here's ag Cunningham.

1567
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 19: I don't think there's an intent to kill. I don't

1568
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 19: think there's an intent to do great Baley harm. I

1569
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 19: think that the evidence shows and the reasonable influences coming

1570
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 19: from the odens is that there was an intent to

1571
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 19: create this high risk of death or great bardlet harm

1572
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 19: because he's gonna be with his fat humor steer the

1573
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 19: double all this little chinaman boone, that's what he's all about.

1574
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 19: I think he was more surprised than ever. Was it

1575
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 19: an accident?

1576
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 7: Of course it not.

1577
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 19: Wasn't an accident. If there was an accident, you would

1578
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 19: have hurt a nine to eleven call, Hey, my gun

1579
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 19: went off accidentally. We're not talking about an accident here.

1580
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 19: We're talking about intentionally firing in a certain direction, creating

1581
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 19: a high risk of death or great barley harm.

1582
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 1: Notice the needle that Cunningham is trying to thread. They

1583
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,320
Speaker 1: could argue for a first degree murder since there was

1584
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 1: no evidence that Tom had planned Chung's death, but the

1585
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: theft of the gun indicated that it wasn't an innocent mistake,

1586
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: so Cunningham aimed instead for second degree murder, which someone

1587
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 1: can be convicted of if they act with extreme indifference

1588
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,839
Speaker 1: for human life. The example that's often used is firing

1589
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 1: a gun into a crowd of people without intending to

1590
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 1: kill anyone in particular. That's the scenario. The prosecution put forward,

1591
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,559
Speaker 1: and they used Tom's texts as evidence.

1592
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 19: Depraved indifference is a term we often use. I just

1593
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 19: don't care. He's just a chime man. He's just a chink,

1594
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 19: as he called, I'll scare the double on. This is

1595
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 19: gonna be great, great fun. Go and tell my frat boys, Hey,

1596
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 19: I scared the double out of this guy. He's out there.

1597
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 19: I can see him. He's wearing his head lamp, but

1598
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 19: he's got this flashlight. He's pretty easy target, you know.

1599
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 19: I'm just shoot him on buff his head on the ranch.

1600
01:20:58,960 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 13: Law.

1601
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:01,719
Speaker 19: Just wan what happen?

1602
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:06,920
Speaker 1: Tom, the prosecution said, killed Chung for a laugh. He'd

1603
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,759
Speaker 1: been joking about the man's death for the last six years,

1604
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 1: and that joke started on November sixteenth, twenty eighteen. The

1605
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 1: jury deliberated for a day and a half and came

1606
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 1: back with a verdict on February twenty second of last year.

1607
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:27,800
Speaker 20: All right, jury jur number five four person, did the

1608
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 20: jury reaching verdict?

1609
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 12: Yes, that we have.

1610
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,080
Speaker 2: Is the verdict unanimous?

1611
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 13: Yes it is.

1612
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 2: Please read the verdict.

1613
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 20: On count one, we find the defendant guilty a second

1614
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 20: degree murder, and on count two we find the defendant

1615
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 20: guilty of a possession of a firearm during the condition

1616
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 20: of the foundment.

1617
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for person.

1618
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:51,719
Speaker 12: Is that your verdict?

1619
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 10: Yes, it is?

1620
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 3: You may be seated At a hearing.

1621
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 1: A few months later, Tom was sentenced to twenty two

1622
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: and a half to sixty years in prison. He is

1623
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: currently being held at the Oaks Correctional Facility in Manistee, Michigan,

1624
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:09,599
Speaker 1: and his earliest release date is October nineteenth, twenty forty seven.

1625
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 12: Was that your verdict?

1626
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 9: Yes?

1627
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 12: Juring number two? Was that your verdict?

1628
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 5: Yep?

1629
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 2: Juring number three?

1630
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 12: Was that your verdict? Yes? Juring number four? Was that

1631
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:31,080
Speaker 12: your verdict?

1632
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: Part six? What happens next? Olsen's family is hoping to

1633
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 1: get him out of prison much earlier than that. They

1634
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: maintain his innocence and they've launched a crowdfunding campaign to

1635
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: help pay for his legal fees. They hired a new

1636
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 1: team of lawyers, and earlier this year they submitted a

1637
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: motion for a retrial. In the motion, Olsen's attorneys argue

1638
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: that there wasn't enough evidence to convict their client, but

1639
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 1: they also submit new evidence they say is exonerating. They

1640
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: say they found the all led twelve gage slugs. Olsen

1641
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: hunted with on the day of the murder. They submitted

1642
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 1: a purchase receipt from a sporting good store, and Olson's

1643
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: father signed an affidavit claiming that his son stored that

1644
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 1: box of slugs at his house. He also says none

1645
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:21,839
Speaker 1: of the slugs had been used. If those are indeed

1646
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 1: the slugs Olsen was using that day, the lack of

1647
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: copper jacket would mean they probably weren't the projectiles that

1648
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: killed Chong. Olson's attorney also submitted a purchase receipt from

1649
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: Dunham's showing that Tom bought frog tog Waiters prior to.

1650
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 3: The day of the incident.

1651
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: The judge issued her decision just a few weeks ago,

1652
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: but she said there was ample evidence to convict Tom.

1653
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 1: She also didn't think the new evidence was convincing enough

1654
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: to justify a retrial. Tom may have purchased those all

1655
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 1: led slugs prior to the incident, but that doesn't mean

1656
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 1: he used them on that day. She denied his motion

1657
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 1: for a re trial, and his attorneys have already filed

1658
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 1: their case in the Court of Appeals.

1659
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they already filed with the Court of Appeals. The

1660
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 2: ag and the VICTI navigate. They're gonna keep us updaused

1661
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,920
Speaker 2: so again, like that's why I'm just like, I guess

1662
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 2: it's not the words celebrated. I can't even like live

1663
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 2: knowing like we still got this to go through, Like

1664
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 2: I'm not done yet. We still have Court of Appeals

1665
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 2: to go to, and every time you sit in the

1666
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 2: same room as him is nerve wracking. And to be

1667
01:24:28,160 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 2: around his family members is nerve racking too, just because

1668
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 2: of the way some of them treated us in court

1669
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 2: was like really not nice.

1670
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 1: I reached out to Sam Olsen, Tom's brother and the

1671
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 1: one who organized his crowdfunding efforts, but he declined.

1672
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:43,760
Speaker 3: To be interviewed for this episode.

1673
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,800
Speaker 1: Tom's case isn't over, and technically Robs could restart at

1674
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:49,400
Speaker 1: any time.

1675
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:52,479
Speaker 4: There's no statute of limitations in Michigan for murder. You know,

1676
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 4: if additional evidence comes out and they're able to charge again,

1677
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 4: they will. I've talked to the prosecutor about that, and

1678
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 4: I've explained to the family about that, Like, no statue

1679
01:25:00,560 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 4: of limitations. So if additional evidence comes out, did the

1680
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 4: prosecutors feel like they can that's actionable on the they

1681
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:07,600
Speaker 4: will take action on it.

1682
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 1: I reached out to Rob for comment, but didn't receive

1683
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 1: a response. I'm not sure rob still lives in the

1684
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 1: Lancing area, but my vou remains concerned for her family safety.

1685
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 2: You know, I did send a low alert to everybody's

1686
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,599
Speaker 2: like hey, be careful, like Rodbery's still out there hunting.

1687
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 2: You know, she husedn't be around a gun, and so

1688
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:29,160
Speaker 2: it does bother me. And when Robay was out, you know,

1689
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,519
Speaker 2: because Rabbi was no longer going to trial, it always

1690
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 2: worried me, like if him and Olsen was gonna still

1691
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 2: contact each other. And you know that was also another

1692
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 2: very like thing that scared me too, like well, he's

1693
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 2: out here, and also it's in there, could they be

1694
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:46,759
Speaker 2: doing something to us.

1695
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:49,719
Speaker 1: Despite her fears of the two men she believes killed

1696
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 1: her father, Mavu told me she appreciates everyone in the

1697
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:56,280
Speaker 1: Lancing community for coming around her and her family and

1698
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 1: supporting them through the most difficult thing any family can

1699
01:25:59,640 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: go through.

1700
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 2: I would say, like in Lancing, you know, you don't

1701
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:05,599
Speaker 2: have everybody's really friendly with each other. You know, there's

1702
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 2: plenty of times where white hunters will help my dad,

1703
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 2: And there were times when my dad helped white hunters

1704
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:13,799
Speaker 2: or any color hunters, like I think that's the problem

1705
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 2: we had in Lancing was because the community is like

1706
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 2: so loving that when this happened, it was kind of

1707
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 2: like shocking that these guys are being really racist towards

1708
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 2: my dad with their text messages, because all the years

1709
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 2: that we were there, we really encounter any of that.

1710
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 1: For Yah, and Yeah, Chong's story hits extremely close to home.

1711
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 5: In this case. We're talking about around twenty and eighty

1712
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 5: and that I've been I remember too. It's still kind

1713
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 5: of like the same message right out, you know, like

1714
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 5: through social media, you're among person if you're hunting whatever,

1715
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 5: stay out of the woods.

1716
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:49,639
Speaker 1: Fortunately, that very understandable fear failed to keep either man

1717
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: out of the woods very long. Yeah, I was planning

1718
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 1: a deer hunt the evening we spoke, and Ye had

1719
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: texted me a photo of a squirrel hunt a few

1720
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:00,880
Speaker 1: days after. Even though Chung's case highlight it's the potential

1721
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: for violence and division, he has said he sees the

1722
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 1: larger arc of the Monk's story in the US as

1723
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:08,759
Speaker 1: trending towards unity.

1724
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:10,720
Speaker 5: What the Mongk people have gone through and what the

1725
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,439
Speaker 5: Monk people are looking for. It's not exclusively to among people.

1726
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 5: It's a human thing. Mom and Dad really showed me

1727
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 5: that at a young age. All the hurt and all

1728
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 5: the pain that our people have gone through, our family

1729
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:25,799
Speaker 5: have gone through, it just it's not us, it's everybody

1730
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,320
Speaker 5: goes through this. And if somehow we can use this

1731
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 5: as the way to connect what we can use pain

1732
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 5: and hurt and suffering to connect to others who are

1733
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 5: hurt and suffering and they might not look like us,

1734
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 5: maybe we get to see them as the same as us.

1735
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 5: And so what I guess what I want to get

1736
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:43,640
Speaker 5: out of all this is saying, hey, look, there's a

1737
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 5: lot of bias stuff from both sides. But I think

1738
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:50,559
Speaker 5: that fear begets fear, that begets more fear. And this

1739
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,320
Speaker 5: is one of the things I love about the outdoors

1740
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 5: and hunting. It's not like, oh, this is a white

1741
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 5: man thing or a Black man thing, or a Mexican

1742
01:27:57,439 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 5: man thing. Like hunting outdoors, that's a human thing. There's

1743
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 5: something in natan nature in us.

1744
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of Blood Trails. If

1745
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,560
Speaker 1: you'd like to see images from this episode, including photos

1746
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:19,560
Speaker 1: of Chong, maps of the Roselake Wildlife Area, and screenshots

1747
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:22,600
Speaker 1: of Tom and Rob's text messages. Head over to the

1748
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: meeater dot com slash blood Trails. Big thanks to Mavu Yang,

1749
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Joseph yang Ya Yang Yavang, and Christy Colby, who is

1750
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 1: a saint among office managers over at the bath Township

1751
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: Police Department. I am sorry to say that this is

1752
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: our final episode in season one. I can't thank you

1753
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: enough for all the kind emails and messages. It's an

1754
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 1: honor to bring you these stories, and I don't do

1755
01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: it alone. Jake Birch is the genius behind the sound design,

1756
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: Nick Glenn is the Spielberg behind the video version of

1757
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 1: the podcast, and Riva Hansen is the wizard who orchestrated

1758
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 1: the rollout of Blood Trails and just generally brings order

1759
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 1: to the chaos. Another big thanks to Currn Schneider for

1760
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 1: green lighting Blood Trails and supporting it from the very beginning,

1761
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 1: and to Steve Ranella for his advice and direction throughout.

1762
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: If like me, you're disappointed that season one is ending,

1763
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 1: I do have some good news, thanks in part to

1764
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 1: all the incredible tips you sent in too blood Trails.

1765
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:22,839
Speaker 3: At the meaeater dot com.

1766
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 1: I'm happy to say that season two is already in

1767
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: the works. We'll release more episodes next spring, and I

1768
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 1: can't wait to bring them to you. We'll also release

1769
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 1: standalone episodes if there are any updates on any of

1770
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 1: the cases we covered this season, if Detective pointing here's

1771
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: back about the John Wayne Gacy DNA test, if Sheriff

1772
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 1: Larsen makes an arrest for the murder of Terry Brisk,

1773
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,880
Speaker 1: or if law enforcement finds more victims of Paul Hutchinson.

1774
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 3: Will be sure to let you know To make sure.

1775
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: You're notified as soon as a new episode drops. Remember

1776
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 1: to follow Blood Trails on iHeart Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

1777
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 3: Get your pop casts.

1778
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,760
Speaker 1: See you next time. Stay safe out there,