1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a family in living hell 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: as a gorgeous young California teacher mysteriously vanishes from a 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: yoga retreat. Where's Nancy? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. A beautiful young California 5 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: teacher disappears on a yoga retreat abroad. Where is Nancy? 6 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: Why do our beautiful young Americans seemingly vanish into thin 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: air when they go abroad? This for a yoga retreat? 8 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,639 Speaker 1: I'm just not buying the story. I'm being sold with 9 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: me an all star pound to make sense of Nancy's disappearance. 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: But first I want to go straight out to Nicki 11 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: and Jonathan Ing, the sister and brother of Nancy. To 12 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: both of you, thank you for being with us. Nikki, 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: when did you first learn your sister has as everyone says, vanishes. 14 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: They make it sound like it's a magic trick that 15 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: there she is and drum roll, now she's gone. None 16 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: of this is making sense to me. When did you 17 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: learn that your sister had vanished? 18 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: We first heard she went missing on October nineteenth. 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: My deb received a call from Eddie Ramada. 20 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: When you're going to organize her that day to see 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: that she had gone out on the water and never returned. 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, Jonathan, there's something missing in that story. You know, 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: we just covered the case of a beautiful young university student, Sadiitsha, 24 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: who was just at the water's edge, and now she's gone. 25 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: Same thing happened with Natalie Holloway, Same thing happened with 26 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: Robin Gardner. I have got a file this thick of 27 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: peace well that go missing off yoga retreats. I do 28 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: not believe that one moment Nancy's there and the next 29 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: moment Nancy's gone. What were you told, Jonathan? 30 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 4: We were told in the phone call Maddie that Christina 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 4: and now she's at the police station. You'll get all 32 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 4: the information that you need when we get the report 33 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 4: next week. And we just waited patiently and we didn't 34 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 4: get the answers we got. 35 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: We get the. 36 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Answers that we need because the answers don't really make 37 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: any sense. You are seeing video this gorgeous young teacher, 38 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: Nancy ng She lives in California. She goes to a 39 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: yoga retreat and she's never seen again. Look at her, 40 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: full of life, full of joy. Why is she gone? 41 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: What happened. The family literally in a living hell. Listen. 42 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 5: Special needs teacher Nancy Ing is in Guatemala for a 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 5: yoga retreat. During a kayak trip on Lake Adalon, Christina 44 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 5: Balzak and Nancy Ying go further on the lake than 45 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 5: their group. When Balzac claims Nancy got out of her 46 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 5: kayak to swim, Balzak returns to shore alone. Nancy Ings 47 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 5: never seen again. 48 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: This story is not fitting together for me again with 49 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: me in addition to Nicki and Jonathan Ng an all 50 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: star panel, let me go straight out to Mary Beth 51 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: mcday joining us anchor Katla. Mary Beth, thank you for 52 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: being with us. What led Nancy Yng to go to 53 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: this yoga retreat? 54 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, from my understanding, she's a very busy woman. She 55 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 6: needed a much needed break. She'd been onto this yoga 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 6: retreat the previous year and wanted to go back and 57 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 6: get some relaxations. She went with a group of ten people, 58 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 6: and the second to last day they were there, they 59 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 6: went out for this kayak trip and then, as you mentioned, 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 6: everyone came back, all nine people except for Nancy. She 61 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 6: as you mentioned, well, she just seemed to vanish. 62 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things. 63 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 6: There are two things that really stuck out in my 64 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 6: mind with this Nancy is that Number one, the family 65 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 6: has always said, you know, because the final woman to 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 6: see her alive, it said, oh, she drowned. And I 67 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 6: know to the family this did not make sense. I 68 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 6: remember the heartbroken father was saying to his other children, 69 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 6: how can this be? I taught I taught Nancy how 70 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 6: to swim. 71 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 3: She's a good swimmer. 72 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 6: And he would sleep with the phone in his bed 73 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 6: every night, hoping to finally get good news about his daughter. 74 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 3: And one other kind of suspicious thing. 75 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 6: That I also found is that after the other nine 76 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 6: were back on shore and Nancy was missing, the people 77 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 6: from the ook retreat they all left. No one stayed 78 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 6: behind to help, and then they left Guatemala within about 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 6: eight to twelve hours. And that's according to the people 80 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 6: who run the kayak rentels. And according to those people 81 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 6: from the kayak b rentals, they say the gentleman went 82 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 6: out to try to search for Nancy, he couldn't find her. 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 6: And as far as I know, to this state, they 84 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 6: never got paid for the renting out those kayaks. So 85 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 6: I just know that the kayak rentel people are very 86 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 6: suspicious to hear while no one's staying behind to find 87 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 6: out what happens to this poor woman. 88 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 3: You just all flee Guatemala. 89 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: So that was very suspicious, you know, Mary Meth McDade 90 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: joining US anchor kt LA Mary Beth, he just says 91 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: something very probitive in my mind. It's not that I'm 92 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: sure that they're all strung out about not getting their 93 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: hundred dollars for the rental, but what does that prove? 94 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: They all just left. You've got this person you've been 95 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: on a yoga retreat with for days. You've gotten to 96 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: know her, to like her, to care about her. You 97 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: are all there together at the kayak rental. She doesn't 98 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 1: come back, and you leave so quickly you don't even pay, 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: you know. 100 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 6: And I've covered many stories out here in Los Angeles 101 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 6: where someone goes swimming up around Palasertes Finance Lea. There's 102 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 6: a lot of caves and there all these group of 103 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 6: young people like to win there and swim. People don't leave. 104 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,239 Speaker 6: They stayed along the shoreline. Many people gather, everyone starts 105 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 6: looking where's. 106 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: This poor woman? That wasn't the case in this situation. 107 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 5: Everyone left. 108 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 6: I mean, how do you leave someone behind? And then 109 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 6: leave Guatemala within eight to twelve hours. 110 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: You don't look, you know, you don't look. 111 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 7: I just find that. 112 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: I know I may be projecting Mary Beth McDade Kate 113 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: t La, but I recall a very serious diving accident 114 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: I had and nearly drowned, and when I came to 115 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: I looked up and every single person that was on 116 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: the dive trip with me was standing right there looking 117 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: down at me. Everyone nobody just said, oh, okay, bye, 118 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: I hype, everything's okay. I just find this very disturbing. 119 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: Mary Beth, Yeah, I do too. 120 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 6: You think that maybe you'd hop back on the kayak, 121 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 6: you'd go out and try to look for her, bring 122 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 6: maybe a life jacket out. Fortunately, the owner of the kayak, Bronchesshop, 123 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 6: he did get in a boat and go look for her. 124 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 6: But again everyone left, so no one was around to 125 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 6: really give more information about Okay, well that's where she 126 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 6: was last scene. Okay, here's you know where I. 127 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: Last saw her swimming. 128 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 6: You know, because from the last woman, from what we 129 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 6: understand she had or through her attorney, we've learned that 130 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 6: she says that, oh, you know, at at some point 131 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 6: Nancy decided to get out of the kayak and go 132 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 6: for a little swim, and she says she told Nancy 133 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 6: not to, and then she went over to try to 134 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 6: retrieve Nancy's kayak, not once, but twice, and then Nancy 135 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 6: was seriously gone. 136 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: And then she battled back to shore. 137 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 6: Okay, you battle back to shore to go get hell, but. 138 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: Then you leave. 139 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 6: I don't get it. I could never see myself leaving 140 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 6: a leak or the ocean or anything if I knew 141 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: that someone in my group, as you were saying, Nancy 142 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 6: was seriously vanished. 143 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: To Nicki Ing and Jonathan Ing, these are Nancy's brother 144 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: and sister. How did that strike you when? Okay, first 145 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: of all, I'm hearing that the witness that was last 146 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: with her, we believe, got a lawyer. Okay, but that 147 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: everyone on the excursion came back to shore and went 148 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: okay bye, and then left so quickly. They didn't even 149 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: bother to pay. They didn't have time. They wanted to 150 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: get out of there so quickly. How did that strike you, Nicki? 151 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: I just think none of it makes sense. I think 152 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 2: one of the most appalling facts that we've heard is 153 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: that when Christina got back to shore, he went back 154 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: to the hotel. 155 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 3: She didn't get back out on the boat and show. 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: People where in the lake in this eleven by five mile. 157 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 3: Lake where they were. Instead, she had gone back and. 158 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: We were told by one of the other retreat goers 159 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: that she was in the meditation doing child's pose. And 160 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: to us, that is just so stocking and unbelievable that 161 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: that's your first response. What about their urgency in finding 162 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: our sister? 163 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 3: Where's that? 164 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 8: Where's that? 165 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: If? If Niki, that is really what happened, what about it, Jonathan, 166 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: How did that strike you? 167 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 4: It doesn't make any sense. 168 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 3: I feel like. 169 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 4: You should be out there giving information, the recon starch teams, 170 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 4: you know, helping everybody figure out what they can best 171 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 4: through to find Nancy, to find my sister, and for 172 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 4: her to be just. 173 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 3: I think it's ridiculous. It's absolute ridiculous. And to be 174 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: doing child's. 175 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: Posts, Jonathan, when you were first told that Nancy just 176 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: quote vanished, those are the words. That's the word I 177 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: keep hearing describing her. One minute she's there, the next 178 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: minute she's gone. I'm not getting a clear picture of 179 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: what happened, and the fact that everyone on the excursion 180 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: just left without paying I find very curious. Jonathan. 181 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 182 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 4: We we had heard that the organizer, Eddie was was 183 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 4: kind of shuffling and getting everybody out there in a rush, 184 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 4: and that just felt like, why, why would you do this? 185 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 4: For we had asked him. We reached out saying, hey, 186 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 4: is there any chance that you could stay a little 187 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 4: bit longer? You know, you ask me to the group 188 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 4: if there's anybody who's willing to stay behind and volunteer 189 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 4: help out. And not only did he decline to do that, 190 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 4: he booked his ticket, rebooked his ticket out of Wallmala 191 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 4: a date early, left a date earlier than he had planned. 192 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 4: He didn't actually people have telled us on the retreat 193 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 4: if Eddie had asked me, hey, the family would like 194 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 4: someone to stay to help out, that they would have stayed. 195 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 4: But he didn't even bother asking. He ignored did Nicky's 196 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 4: sex and calls when she'd called them and someone said 197 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 4: that he literally he literally saw him look at the 198 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 4: phone and put her face down. 199 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: Wow. Wendy Patrick joining me. Veteran California prosecutor, She's president 200 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: founder black Swan Verdicts, author of Why Bad Looks Good, 201 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: also Reading People, How to Understand People, and predict their 202 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: behavior anytime, any place. She's also the star of Today 203 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: with doctor Wendy on Casey BQ. Wendy does the term 204 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: flight fit? Is that appropriate here? Flight evidence of flight? 205 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 8: It's interesting you bring that up, Nancy, because that's often 206 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 8: argued when you have persons of interest who disappear, because 207 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 8: it really comes down to exactly that you have a 208 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 8: case where it looks like the cover up may be 209 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 8: part of a crime, but you don't have suspects in 210 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 8: this case yet, you just have suspicious behavior following this tragedy. 211 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 8: And one of the things that makes this scenario unique 212 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 8: is we all know it's challenging enough to gather forensic 213 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 8: evidence on land, how much harder in the middle of 214 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 8: the lake where the only people who would be able 215 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 8: to provide those leads took flight almost immediately. Now, the 216 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 8: reason why I may have something to do with potential 217 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 8: civil liability. 218 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why they didn't pay. 219 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 8: Maybe there are other explanations, but as you just point 220 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 8: out with the example you shared personally, it's not the way. 221 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: Human beings behave. 222 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 8: And when you look at behavioral evidence, the fact that 223 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:42,599 Speaker 8: most people. 224 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 6: Stay and say what can I do to help. 225 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 8: Tell me where to look. Let's go to the police, 226 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 8: let's share information. It is absolutely just out of the pale. 227 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 8: And the brother and sister they picked up on this 228 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 8: right away that that was not only not the case here, 229 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 8: but that the departure date was expedient after this beautiful 230 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 8: young woman went missing. 231 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 6: Very unusual. 232 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: And of course, Wendy Patrick, you're a veteran trial lawyer, 233 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: you know that in many jurisdictions judges no longer give 234 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: a jury charge regarding flight as evidence of guilt. That 235 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: is no longer allowed in many jurisdictions, while prosecutors do 236 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: still argue it under the law, and does it mean anything, Maybe, 237 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: maybe not, but it certainly bears investigation that as might 238 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: understand it, Jonathan Ing, that the guy in charge of 239 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: this excursion looked at a cell phone and put it 240 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: face down when he was being asked, reportedly to continue 241 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: the search for your sister, and everybody left, including him 242 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: rebooking his flight to get out of Dodge even earlier. 243 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 9: And the only reason we know this is because a 244 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 9: United Airlines employee went out of his way to show 245 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 9: a content creator that was covering Nancie's case that information. 246 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 247 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 4: Additionally, like it's not even that he ignored us. We 248 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: heard from the prosecutor in charge of investing in the 249 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 4: case that he also had a hard time reaching idea 250 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 4: that he was ignoring texts and calls from the investigative 251 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 4: people in Bottom Mall. 252 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: And the thing is, both Eddie and Christina were summoned 253 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: to provide their testimonies the day following the incident, but 254 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 2: by then they had already left. 255 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, you mentioned something about civil liability that maybe 256 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: they all left because they were afraid of civil liability. 257 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: You mean they're afraid they were going to get sued. 258 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: Maybe that could have been a concern the guy that 259 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: arranged the excursion, But what about the other fellow kayakers. 260 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: They would not be subjected to any civil liability. Why 261 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: did everybody lean just like that, including the woman we 262 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: believe to be the last person to see Nancy alive. Well, 263 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: I don't get it. 264 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 8: And that's also one of the reasons that she lawyered up, 265 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 8: as we say, you know, getting a lawyer prospectively, because 266 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 8: everybody's afraid they may be blamed. Here's the emotional value 267 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 8: of that kind of behavior. Whether or not people understand 268 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 8: the law, everyone is afraid that if they're the last 269 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 8: person that saw somebody alive, or if something they did 270 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 8: may have caused the death of another. Sometimes it's panic, 271 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 8: and we have seen that sometimes panic is contagious. So 272 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 8: we don't know exactly how this group decided together it's 273 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 8: best to leave, and it's awful that it happened, and 274 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 8: I hope that they are just broken up about it, 275 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 8: and maybe hopefully, especially as a result of this broadcast, 276 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 8: maybe they'll come forward and start to help. 277 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: But sometimes we see that that. 278 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 8: Ends up being sort of emotional contagion. Whether or not, 279 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 8: as a logical matter, any of them can be charged. 280 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: They didn't do it. 281 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 8: There's no evidence at this point, and slight is an 282 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 8: instruction that relates to a criminal defendant, not to people 283 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 8: at the scene that may have information that could help 284 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 8: law enforcement find a beautiful, young missing woman. 285 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: Mary Beth mcday joining US anchored KTLA, the woman purported 286 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: to be the last one to see Nancy before she vanished. 287 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: She does know the law. Isn't she a public defender? 288 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, she's a public defender out in samberd Ardino County. 289 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 6: You know one thing that I recall from covering this 290 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 6: story and that is that supposedly the hotel owner in 291 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 6: Guatemala had taken Christina Blazac down to speak with the 292 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 6: police and then and hopefully Nicki and Jonathan could talk 293 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 6: more about this, because they learned this through their attorney. 294 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: That they hired on the ground there in Guatemala. 295 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 6: And by the way, an attorney down in Guatemala is 296 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 6: more like an investigator, just you know. But supposedly she 297 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 6: was taken down there and gave some at report, but 298 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 6: they didn't want an American behind bars in guatemalas the 299 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 6: hotel owner supposedly paid off some kind of bride. And 300 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 6: you know, Nicki and Jonathan had spoken with KTLA a 301 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 6: few months ago about that, and maybe they can tell 302 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 6: us where things stand with that, because from what I understand, 303 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 6: the last woman to see Nancy alive that the report 304 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 6: she gave to police was never in the paperwork or 305 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 6: the police report that was given to the family. 306 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 5: It takes a special kind of person to work with 307 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 5: children as a behavioral interventionist. It requires a professional who 308 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 5: can work one on one with students exhibiting challenging behaviors, 309 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 5: getting to know the child, and developing a plan to 310 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 5: modify behavior. And reduce negative behaviors. Nancy Ng is just 311 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 5: such a person. She works with children at Garfield Elementary 312 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 5: School in Alhambra. Witnesses refuse to speak. Allegedly fleeing Waamala 313 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 5: after a twenty nine year old woman mysteriously disappears. 314 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: What happened to Nancy Ng? Her family joining us tonight 315 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: in Living Hell with no answers? Why do so many 316 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: young and beautiful, beloved American women go abroad, this time 317 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: to a yoga retreat and they never come home? Mary 318 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: Beth McDade on the case from the Get Go anchor, 319 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: kat La, you wanted to ask a question of NICKI 320 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: and Jonathan. 321 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 6: Yes, Nancy and covering a story, you know, I recall 322 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 6: that the last woman to see Nancy alive, that the 323 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 6: owner of the hotel has supposedly taken her down to 324 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 6: the police station to file some kind of report, but 325 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 6: that they didn't want to have an American in jail 326 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 6: in Guatemala, and. 327 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 3: So in covering the story, learning from the family, they'd. 328 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 6: Hired an attorney down to Guatemala who discovered that there 329 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 6: was some sort of payoff by the hotel to get 330 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 6: that woman out of Guatemala because I guess they don't 331 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 6: like Americans behind bars in Guatemala. So I'm curious, you know, 332 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 6: Nicki and John, did you guys ever find out more 333 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 6: about this supposed bribe. 334 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 3: And you know, did it really happen? And you know, 335 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 3: what do you guys know about that today? 336 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 9: So we learn about the bribe allegations because multiple sources 337 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 9: that used to work at the hotel the Nancy was 338 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 9: staying at informed us that the reason why we don't 339 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 9: have Christina's witness statement in the police report is because 340 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 9: of bribe took place. And when we first heard this, 341 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 9: we were so confused because we just didn't understand why 342 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 9: that would happen. And like you said, we were told 343 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,959 Speaker 9: that the hotel owners arranged a bribe so that Christina's 344 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 9: statement would be omitted so that she wouldn't have to 345 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 9: stay and be detained in the country. 346 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: I just hope is that your understanding, Jonathan. 347 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, we wish we get more information. 348 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 4: That's the most frustrating thing about this entire situation. We 349 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 4: have so little to work off of, and it feels 350 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 4: like no one else is working on other authorities working 351 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 4: to get us information that would actually give us clarity 352 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 4: and the witness is on speaking up. 353 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 3: It's really hard to know exactly what actually. 354 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 2: Happened, but what we do know for is that the 355 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: statement was purposely omitted. Even another retreat participant confirmed that 356 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 2: because of that decision. 357 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 3: We don't know what happened to our sister. And it's 358 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: been over a year and a half. 359 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. We don't know if there 360 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: was a bride, We don't know who paid the alleged 361 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: bride for what. But we do know, don't we marry 362 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: Beth mcday KTLA. Don't we know that the witness I 363 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: believe is a lawyer, a public defender, had a lot 364 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: of cases, criminal cases that she left immediately following the 365 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: vanishing of Nancy. 366 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, she's a public defender out in San Berdandino County. 367 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: And yes she did as well as. 368 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: Everyone was on that yoga retreat. 369 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 6: I mean they, according to the owners of the kayak 370 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 6: retel place, they all left immediately from the lake and 371 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 6: then they went back and they were out of Guallamalla 372 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 6: within aged twelve hours. And what I guess I also 373 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 6: find remarkable is here's this family. They really want to 374 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 6: know what happened. When was the last time you saw 375 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 6: my sister? What was she doing? 376 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 10: Hey? 377 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 6: Can you pinpoint in this lake exactly where you saw, 378 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 6: so that all our search crews have some sort. 379 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 3: Of idea where to even start. 380 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 6: Looking, and then to use science to try to figure 381 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 6: out where a body may go. And she really didn't 382 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 6: come forward to the family until through her attorney, And 383 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 6: that was after Chris Sharp, who I know you're going 384 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 6: to be speaking with. He has the search team that 385 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 6: was hired by the family to go down there and 386 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 6: start looking. And from my understanding, he was a bit 387 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 6: frustrated that he couldn't hear from this woman. Okay, please 388 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 6: help us tell three last on Nancy. He released her 389 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 6: name to the public and then all of a sudden, 390 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 6: well that's when her attorney came forward and told the 391 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 6: family her version of events. 392 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 3: It was about four weeks later. Why couldn't you. 393 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: Have done it that day? 394 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 3: Why couldn't you have let people know? 395 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: Excuse me right away? 396 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 6: So searchers had a good idea where to start looking. 397 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: Joining us right now. A special guest, Chris Razor Sharp 398 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: Master Eric Crewman, conducted the first aerial searches of like 399 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: at Taitlan, where Nancy went missing. Reportedly went missing a 400 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: fellow of the Institute of Search and Technical Rescue Helicopter Association. 401 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on, and you can 402 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: find him at black Wolf Helicopters dot com. Let's just 403 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: say he's an expert. Chris Razor Sharp, thank you for 404 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: being with us. I'm having an issue reconciling the story 405 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: I'm hearing with what I know of the topography in 406 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: the area and the lake. We often hear people going 407 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: missing in the ocean, they're taken away by a big wave. 408 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: We hear people going under in white water rapids. But 409 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: in a lake, in a lake, let me think Nancy 410 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: knew how to swim. She was on a kayak. She 411 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: was on what should have been a very safe excursion. 412 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: You ever been on a Disney cruise. I've been on 413 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: plenty those excursions. I mean, you'd have to really try 414 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: to get hurt. You have to go out of your 415 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: way to get hurt. So, given your search of the lake, 416 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: how does somebody a lake, a contained lake, how does 417 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: somebody go missing and they're never found in a lake? 418 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 7: Typically they don't just vanish, Especially in the lake, there 419 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 7: are certain undercurrents that do pull things down. But the 420 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 7: big problem we had because we know where to look 421 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 7: to start the search. So that's why we ended up 422 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 7: with helicopters searching the entire lake, the entire coachline, and 423 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 7: then as the search progressed, we put dogs in around 424 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 7: the resort. Obviously the scuba divers we did under it, 425 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 7: through all the reeds and everywhere. It's a very difficult 426 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 7: area to search in the first place. One the altitude, 427 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 7: so everyone sees a beautiful lake. It's about six thousand 428 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 7: feet above sea level. There's three mountain ridges we have 429 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 7: to cross to get there, so we're operating at peak 430 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 7: performance of the helicopter. And then due to just pure 431 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 7: size and thankfully the family members who were in contact 432 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 7: with us, that's the only information we had. People say, 433 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 7: did we speak to witnesses, Well, there weren't anywhere. This 434 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 7: is because they'd all gone. The people on the ground 435 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 7: were unfriendly because of the press attention that was coming 436 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 7: their way. So that's why I became a protracted search 437 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 7: in a sense. 438 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: Okay, Chris aka Razor Sharp Guys. He starved teen years 439 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: in the Royal Navy Police Special Investigations. He's a certified 440 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: criminal investigator. Chris several follow up questions regarding what you 441 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: just said. Number one referred to a difficulty in searching, 442 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: but what you described seems to me like a difficulty 443 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: in the helicopter search. As a diver, I've done hundreds 444 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: of dives. I've never had a problem diving in a 445 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: lake because when I think of a problem as a 446 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: dive searcher, I think of chopping water, which largely goes 447 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: away once you get below the surface of the chop. 448 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: I think of murky water where you can't see in 449 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: front of yourself, like you're doing a night dive. The 450 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: water is so murky. But when you're doing this search, 451 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: forget about the land search and the helicopter search. Was 452 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: the water search itself. 453 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 7: Difficult, Yes, because of the large expanse of water, and 454 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 7: even if you take the bay into account where the 455 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 7: resort was, that is still a massive area for the divers. 456 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 7: So they did various search patterns, but they can't. It 457 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 7: drops off really deep, really quick, because we didn't have 458 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 7: a start point of any description. That's what frustrated a 459 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 7: lot of the efforts. 460 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: Is it true, Chris, that this lake is one hundred 461 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: and twenty feet deep at its deepest and it is 462 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: fifty plus square miles. 463 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 7: Yes, that is correct. 464 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: Okay, don't you believe it would have helped you if 465 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: those familiar with her last known sighting could have told 466 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: you specifically where they were. 467 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 7: Absolutely, because we could have focused everything on that point. 468 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 7: At one stage, we had three helicopters, two dive teams, 469 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 7: the search dogs searching everywhere because we had nobody physically 470 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,239 Speaker 7: say it was over there. We've got various accounts, but 471 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 7: they will differ. None of them are corroborative. 472 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: You're getting different stories about where she was. 473 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 7: Yeah, so some people say, oh, they were over here, 474 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 7: and then we had a position, which was the other 475 00:27:58,200 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 7: side of the lake. 476 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 1: Is someone's they're very very mistaken or they're outright a line? 477 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: And again, let me repeat, no one has been named 478 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: a suspect or even a person of interest in this case. 479 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: We've had a lot of stories, a lot of information 480 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: coming our way, as have Nikki and Jonathan. Can't corroborate it, 481 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: cannot corroborate it. Question, Chris, did you bring out cadaver dogs? 482 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 10: Yes? 483 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: Did they hit? 484 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 2: No? 485 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 7: So what the reason we introduced the dogs was because 486 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 7: of the stories that the family were being fed. The 487 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 7: fact that we had. Nobody could actually prove to me 488 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 7: to be honest, she was actually on the lake. We're 489 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 7: just going on the few witness accounts that we had. 490 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 7: So the last search is that we did. We took 491 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 7: the kadaver dogs to do that entire all around the 492 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 7: hostel where they were staying and the other hostels. It's 493 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 7: not a very big place. And then we put the 494 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 7: divers under the piers in amongst the reeds and almost 495 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 7: a body search essentially morek into a police search than 496 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 7: a search and rescue. 497 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: Chris Sharp, did the condemn dogs hit negative? Isn't it 498 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: true Chris Sharp, that cadaver dogs will hit on the 499 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: water if there's a dead body. 500 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 7: Yes, we investigated that because of the scent that flows 501 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 7: across the surface. It's not particularly windy, it's not particularly rough, 502 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 7: but the dogs nothing. 503 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: Chris, how soon after Nancy quote vanished? Did you bring 504 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: in the dogs? 505 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 7: Initially it was probably a week later, because we had 506 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 7: to search the entire lake in case you'd swum ashore. 507 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 7: Because you swimmer shore around the corner, you can't get 508 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 7: out of there because it's the cliffs and the etc. 509 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 7: Then we had spewer's reports and psychic people telling us. 510 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 7: So we searched the entire perimeter of the lake, and 511 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 7: obviously from the helicopter we can see vertically down quite 512 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 7: a depth and it's the fastest way to do it. 513 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 7: So maybe two weeks into it. 514 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: Where do you have expected a cadem doctor hit after 515 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: two weeks. 516 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 7: Yes, we spoke to a bunch of guys in the 517 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 7: United States and the dog handlers down here, and that's 518 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 7: the reason we took them, because they felt it was 519 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 7: a worthwhile option. If they said that, we wouldn't have 520 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 7: used them. 521 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: Can you say that people on the ground were unfriendly 522 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: and not cooperative? What happened? 523 00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 7: So obviously when I named two persons of interest, retreat 524 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 7: leader and the female, I've tried contacting them. Obviously the 525 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 7: family had we've got nothing. I named them, and then 526 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 7: I received threats from anonymous people saying you've got the 527 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 7: wrong retreat. It's not that one, it's somewhere else. It's 528 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 7: just and they don't like they operate on tourism, and obviously, 529 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 7: being in the news as much as they were, they're 530 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 7: not particularly friendly. What we're used to that. 531 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: You know, to Nikki and Jonathan Ing listening to Chris 532 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: sharp described as search. It just seems to me if 533 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: this were as straightforward as we've been led to believe, 534 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: that she's suddenly on the middle of a lake that's 535 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: fifty square miles twelve hundred feet deep at his deepest, 536 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: it's very, very deep. Amateur divers rarely go be low 537 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: one hundred okay, much less twelve hundred fate if it 538 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: were as straightforward as we're being told that she suddenly 539 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: jumped off for kayak to go for a swim, Why 540 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: is everyone being so sacretive I'm not helping. Has that 541 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: crossed your mind, Nikki? 542 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it doesn't make sense. It doesn't feel 543 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: like the right response to just leave, And it's just 544 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 2: how can we direct our search themes If you don't 545 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: know where to look? The only person that was with 546 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: Nancy is a willing to speak to them, How do 547 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: they know where to look? It feels near impossible. 548 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: Jonathan Ing, did you realize that Sidekicks had been consulted? 549 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, they were reaching out to us, trying to offer 550 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 4: us their services. Some of them sent us what they 551 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 4: had seen, just un prompted. I think I remember one 552 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 4: instance where the shot organizer we talked about him Eddie. 553 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 4: He had circled two points on a map with his 554 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 4: like iPhone and we left from here, and this is 555 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 4: where you'll Findancy. And they were just both ridiculously wrong. 556 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 4: He was insisting this is where you'll Financy, this is 557 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 4: where we were. The part where he circled his own 558 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 4: location was incorrect, and definitely the part where he circled 559 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 4: where Nancy was was way too far. It was literally 560 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 4: in this of lake where Chris said it was literally impossible. 561 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: Not helpful at all. I find it very difficult to 562 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: understand why if she drowned, why cadaver dogs did not 563 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: hit on the saying the cadaver dogs that Chris Razor 564 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: Sharp brought out. Quick question Nikki Jonathan what happened to 565 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: her cell phone? 566 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 4: Her cell phone was left with her belongs in the hotel. 567 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 4: She decided not to bring it because she was worried 568 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 4: about losing it. 569 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: To Nikki and Jonathan Ing, the brother and sister of Nancy, 570 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: do you ever dream of her because the case is unresolved. 571 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 4: I've jumped of her back at our family's home when 572 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 4: we were growing up. I've seen her like in my 573 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 4: head in my dreams at the park together with her. 574 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 4: I see her in front of what I imagined to 575 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 4: be like her first home. It's confusing. It's hard to 576 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 4: know how to feel about everything and what happened and 577 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 4: where is she now? 578 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 2: NICKI yeah, I dream of her all the time, and 579 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: it's hard. In those dreams, she's happy, and I miss 580 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 2: seeing that. I miss the way she laughs. I think 581 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 2: it's just we don't have closure, so that's all we 582 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 2: have to hold on to. 583 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 3: And even just two weeks ago during. 584 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 2: The start, we got a photo of Nancy from someone 585 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 2: claiming that they found her through the sex trafficking ring. 586 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 2: And it's just things like that that make that emotional limbo. Hell, 587 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 2: it's torture to not know what happened. 588 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, hold on, Nikki, you got a photo 589 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: totally of your sister and the person that said it 590 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: said that she was in a sex she'd been sex trafficked. 591 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 592 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: I mean, we've gotten the countless extortion texts and calls, 593 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 2: but the FBI have ruled most of them out as 594 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: just that, like, we don't really have Nancy. It's just 595 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 2: hard to see that and not think otherwise. 596 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: So in addition and not having answers, you have all 597 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: these guls contacting you claiming they know where Nancy is, 598 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: including that she's been sex trafficked. 599 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's why we're trying so hard 600 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 2: to get these search teams out there, because we just 601 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 2: want some sort of closure and I don't want to 602 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: imagine that she's out there suffering. 603 00:35:52,440 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace joining us now a special Yes, 604 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: Doctor Chavon, Scott's psychotherapist and author of the Minds of 605 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: mass Killers, Understanding and Interrupting Pathway to Violence and game Addiction, 606 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: the experience and the effects, Doctor Cheven, thank you for 607 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: being with us now. See again, I'm projecting. But when 608 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: my fiance was murdered, I knew what happened. I knew 609 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: what happened. His body was at his funeral, he was buried. 610 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: When you don't know what happened to the one you 611 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: love the most, and you dream, for instance, of them 612 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: walking in the door, of meeting them on the street, 613 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: of seeing them across a field, it's maddening. It's hell you. 614 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: First of all, you can't grieve. You don't know that 615 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: they're dead, or have they been sex trafficked, have they 616 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: been kidnapped? What happened to them. If they are dead, 617 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: how did they die, what did they suffer? You don't know. 618 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: You don't have any thing or any place to mourn. 619 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: It is a living hell and it never ends. 620 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 11: Doctor chavn nailed it. You nailed it, Nancy. This is 621 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 11: really the family's worst nightmare, a loved one who disappears, 622 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 11: and we don't have the true story, We don't have 623 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 11: the details. I would like the in family to realize 624 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 11: that what they're experiencing is not just grief. Grief is 625 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 11: hard enough, right, We've all been through that, it's awful, 626 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,919 Speaker 11: But this is what we call ambiguous loss, and that 627 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 11: means your heart is caught between hope and despair, between 628 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 11: searching and mourning, and that emotional limbo is devastating. There's 629 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 11: no closure, there's no roadmap, and that makes it harder 630 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 11: to cope than almost any other kind of loss. And 631 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 11: we really need to reach out to our support system. 632 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 11: Heart to heart connections help people get through incredibly difficult things. 633 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 11: But my heart just goes out to them, and I 634 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 11: think they're doing all the rights by trying to get 635 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 11: this dialogue going and to keep it in the media, 636 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 11: because every missing person, it's a ripple that affects all 637 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 11: of us. 638 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: Let me understand, Nikki and Jonathan. There's only one person 639 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 1: that claims to have seen her before she vanished, right, 640 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: the public defender, the female just one. Nobody else on 641 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: the excursion. 642 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 4: Other participants. They were on the shore, they couldn't see 643 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 4: any details. They just saw two dots. And the only 644 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 4: person that was actually there to be able to see 645 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 4: everything happen was the attorney was Christy. 646 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: So other than her word for what happened, for all 647 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: I know, Nancy could have been taken. 648 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 9: I don't think we'll ever know for sure because even 649 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 9: the people that have spoken to Christina have different accounts 650 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,959 Speaker 9: of what she said, the conflicting information, so we don't 651 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 9: know much as what. 652 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 3: She's told. 653 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: Christina has told other particips Pins that she's not sure 654 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: if Nancy jumps into the league or if she fell 655 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 2: from her kayak, and that's very different from what her 656 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: attorney is now seeing. 657 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,800 Speaker 4: She's said that she didn't hear anything, that's he just 658 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 4: kind of vanished. She's also said in different concepts she 659 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 4: heard a struggle, and those are really difficult details to 660 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 4: mess up and to see two ways of and her 661 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 4: not even talking to us this gives me less clue 662 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 4: about who she is as a person, or maybe it 663 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 4: tells me more about who she is as a person. 664 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Chavon Scott questioned to you, you would expect for 665 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: witnesses material witnesses such as the woman believed to be 666 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: the last person to see Nancy alive, everybody else in 667 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: the group, the excursion coordinator, and more. We would expect 668 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: them to stay and try to find her and expect 669 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: for everyone to be forthcoming. This is what I saw her, 670 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: this is what happened to me. It doesn't make sense 671 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: psychologically for them to just leave. 672 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think any of us putting ourselves 673 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 11: in that kind of situation, we would be devastated and 674 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 11: we would be doing everything we possibly could to try 675 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 11: to give the police information to scour the lake look 676 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 11: for the vicinity. Is there anything we can come up 677 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 11: with that would be helpful? And I think, speaking for myself, 678 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 11: it would be hard to prime me away from that. 679 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 11: So it does seem counterintuitive, but sometimes people can be 680 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 11: influenced by somebody's panic reaction who says, oh, we've all 681 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 11: got to get out of here. I think it just 682 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 11: doesn't all add up, as everyone has said, it's different 683 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 11: than the way most of us would imagine acting in 684 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 11: a situation like this, where we would be panicked about 685 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 11: trying to find the person. So I think there are 686 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 11: so many of these gray areas where things just don't 687 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 11: feel right, and it leaves the family in limbo just 688 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 11: wondering and ruminating, which is a perfectly normal reaction. We'd 689 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 11: all be doing that, but you know, and legally can 690 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,240 Speaker 11: anything be done, And at this point, without more evidence, 691 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 11: we just hope that somebody comes forward or there's something 692 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 11: that can clear it up. 693 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: To Nancy and Jonathan Ing, Nancy Ang's brother and sister, 694 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: did the public defender the lawyer the last one believed 695 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,479 Speaker 1: to have seen your sister in law. Have you tried 696 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: to reach her? Has she contacted you? 697 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 3: No, she's never contacted us. 698 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 2: But we've tried to reach out to her via emails 699 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 2: and even through the US Embassy Saniel letter on our behalf. 700 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 2: She's never responded. She's refused to help search teams. And 701 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 2: while we can understand the panic in the moment to 702 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 2: come back home to safety in California, why not offer 703 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 2: your help then when you're back to safety. 704 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 3: It just doesn't make. 705 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: Sense now, Remember there's a reason that hearsay is typically 706 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: not allowed in court. When you hear she told me 707 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: that she said that cannot be cross examined or tested. 708 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: These are unconfirmed reports. No one has been charged, No 709 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: one is a suspect, no one is a person of interest. 710 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: What we want is the truth. Where is Nancy two? 711 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker joining us, founding member of the FBI Cellular 712 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: Analysis Survey Team. That so Can founding member of the 713 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: FBI Cellular Analysis Team currently with Precision Cellular Analysis. Scott, 714 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,439 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What if anything could 715 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: be called from her cell phone? 716 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 10: There's a ton of stuff that could be called from 717 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 10: her cell phone, not only the device itself and all 718 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 10: the text messages, all the apps that she's used, all 719 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 10: the website she's into, but also from the cell phone 720 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 10: towers in that area. I don't know that area in 721 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 10: Guatemala and how much coverage they do have, but that's 722 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 10: one thing that the FBI could be working with a 723 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 10: Guatemalan government to try to obtain, you know what, towers 724 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 10: that she was using before or after she went missing, 725 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 10: to see if there's any data there that they could 726 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 10: recover that might help in this situation. 727 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 1: Scott Iiker, wouldn't the cell phone reveal texts and phone 728 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: calls leading up to hurt disappearance? Who were there? Was 729 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: there any controversy, were there any mad feelings? I mean, 730 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 1: how long does that data stay in the cloud? 731 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 10: It really depends, you know, the cloud servers for whatever 732 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 10: service she's using there in Guatemala, and if she's using 733 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 10: any applications that are US based or based anywhere else, 734 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 10: that could stay there a good amount of time. Plus 735 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 10: the stuff in her phone will stay there. So hopefully 736 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 10: they recovered her phone and they've done an extraction of 737 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 10: the data on there and review that to see if 738 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 10: there's any controversy or any issues prior to her going missing. 739 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: You're hearing Scott Iiker joining US an expert in cellular 740 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: analysis formerly with the FBI, now a precision cellular analysis. 741 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: You know, Chris Sharp. The search, your search or extensive 742 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: search for me leads to even more questions. 743 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 7: Absolutely, so search is not we don't just go out 744 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 7: and fly around into It is based on human behavior, 745 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 7: what people do. The circumstances around like oh, she fell 746 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 7: off a kayak and it's like, so you didn't try 747 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 7: and help your fellow human in the water. People don't 748 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:58,439 Speaker 7: just sink immediately. It's so frustrating. And then the fact 749 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,919 Speaker 7: that they had all change the flights and gone by 750 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 7: the time we were even contacted, So is we had 751 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 7: no first time to count from anybody apart from what 752 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 7: the family gave us. 753 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: Nicki and Jonathan, Ang, what is your message tonight? First 754 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: to you? 755 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 9: Nicki, I think our message is that we are not 756 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 9: vengeful people. We truly just want the truth about what 757 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 9: happened to our sister and as much information as we 758 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,320 Speaker 9: can get to find her and bring her home. 759 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: Jonathan, it's upset. 760 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,320 Speaker 3: I'm frustrated. 761 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 4: I'm upset, and I just really hope that those who 762 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 4: have information, those who are responsible, that they come forth 763 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,960 Speaker 4: still after all this time, that they come forth. 764 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 3: So that they can give us what we need to 765 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:48,839 Speaker 3: find our sister. 766 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: Jonathan, what haunts you the most the fact that you 767 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: don't know where her body is or that she may 768 00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: still be alive. 769 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 4: I think the thought that she may still be alive 770 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 4: is it's a lot. Yeah, I don't want her to 771 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 4: be out there suffering. 772 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: Nick What disturbs you the most about your sister's disappearance. 773 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 3: I think all of it. 774 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 9: I just can't wrap my head around the fact that 775 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 9: people can just pick up and leave and not help 776 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 9: at all. I mean, Nancy was the kind of person 777 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 9: that went out of her way to help anybody, even strangers, 778 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 9: and so the fact that she's potentially gone forever and 779 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 9: that the people that were last with her are not 780 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 9: willing to help at all, it just really breaks me heart. 781 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 4: It really painful getting information about our sister, not even 782 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 4: through the witnesses directly, but through learning about it through 783 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 4: national television. I just wish there was a die so 784 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,359 Speaker 4: we can learn more. 785 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: Where is Nancy, what happened to her, could she still 786 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: be alive? And under what circumstances. No one has been charged, 787 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: No one is a suspect, no one is a person 788 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: of interest. For all we know, these players' behavior could 789 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: be innocently explained, but we don't know that because there 790 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: seems to be a wall of silence surrounding the disappearance 791 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: of Nancy. Inc. If you know or think you know 792 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:46,280 Speaker 1: anything about the disappearance of Nancy INNG, please please come forward. 793 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: In this family's suffering six two six, six one four 794 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,799 Speaker 1: three two one eight repeat six two six six one 795 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: four three two one eight or email help us find 796 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: Nancy at gmail dot com. We remember an American hero, 797 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: Sergeant David Prarie Baton Rouge p D. Seventeen years with 798 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 1: law enforcement, killed in the line of duty along with 799 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: partner Corporal Scottie Canna zero and a helicopter crash. American 800 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: Hero Sergeant David Parier. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.