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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you,

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Speaker 2: Bob Berman with us. One of America's top astronomy writers,

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Speaker 2: author of twelve very popular books. He has contributed to

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Speaker 2: the popular night Watchman column for Discover for seventeen plus years,

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Speaker 2: and is a science editor and chief astronomer of the

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Speaker 2: Old Farmers Almanac. He also directed the summer astronomy program

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Speaker 2: at Yellowstone Park. He's been on The Today Show, David

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Speaker 2: Letterman's program, and here he is back on Coast to Coast. Hello, Robert,

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Speaker 2: how are you?

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Speaker 3: Ah, George, great to be here, Thanks my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Are you still conducting the special Global Astronomy Tours?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have Special interest tours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We every year we take people to see the Northern

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Speaker 3: lights in Alaska and we go for wherever there's a

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Speaker 3: total teller eclips and we go to places like the

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Speaker 3: Ala Kama Desert. Just amazing astronomy stuff. Yeah, it's fun.

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Speaker 2: I've noticed a lot of things on the web these

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Speaker 2: days with astronomy, But some of these pictures, Bob, don't

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Speaker 2: look like the real deal. What's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thanks for bringing that up. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: it's it's troubling because, yeah, you go on YouTube or

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm not even going to name sight. I'm

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Speaker 3: just we'll just say it the way you did. On

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Speaker 3: the web, you come across tons of nature and astronomy

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Speaker 3: pictures and they look I guess they look spectacular, but

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Speaker 3: they didn't look like anything that anyone has ever seen

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Speaker 3: or will see because they're fake. It's so easy to

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Speaker 3: photoshop these days. So there's there's rainbows that can't exist,

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Speaker 3: and and and hablo and suppose that halo's that the

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Speaker 3: circle above the sunset?

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Speaker 1: And uh.

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Speaker 3: A few tips of how to spot fakes, but most

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Speaker 3: of these things are fake. And it's a little crazy

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Speaker 3: because when I went to college studying stuff, there was

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Speaker 3: no real fake astronomy, and these days is just a

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Speaker 3: lot of clickbaita astronomy. I'm not even sure why.

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Speaker 2: A How do people to tell the difference then between

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Speaker 2: the real and then unreal?

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Speaker 3: Well, okay, one thing, a popular thing is rainbows. You'll

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Speaker 3: see all sorts of images showing rainbows and all sorts

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Speaker 3: of positions. One quick fakery is if you see a

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Speaker 3: sun like a sun setting and then a rainbow above it,

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Speaker 3: like forming an arch above the sunrise or the sunset.

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Speaker 3: Rainbows are always opposite the sun. And if you think

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Speaker 3: about it in your life experience, you know, you'll realize, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's true. Rainbows are always opposite of the sun. So

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Speaker 3: you can never point a camera at the sun and

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Speaker 3: see a rainbow at the same time. So any picture

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Speaker 3: that shows a rainbow and the sun setting in the

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Speaker 3: same picture, that's automatically sake. For example, so.

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Speaker 2: What do you recommend people do to get their good stuff?

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Speaker 2: But the real stuff?

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Speaker 3: You know, you don't learn astronomy or basic science, you know, overnight.

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Speaker 3: So there's no few words that I can suggest to

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Speaker 3: spot a fake. But since rainbows are popular fake images

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Speaker 3: on the web, just realize that a rainbow has to

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Speaker 3: be opposite the sun. And so if you see it

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Speaker 3: rainbow in an image, check out the lighting on the

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Speaker 3: other things in that picture, the lighting on clouds, lighting

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Speaker 3: on mountains, if there's mountains in the picture, and if

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Speaker 3: it's a genuine image or real picture, not a photoshop image,

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Speaker 3: the lighting should tell you which way the sun is

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Speaker 3: coming from, that the sun is coming from behind the

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Speaker 3: photographer behind the camera, not toward the camera. If you're

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Speaker 3: looking toward a rainbow, the light has to be the

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Speaker 3: sunlight has to be from behind you. So it's really

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Speaker 3: kind of as simple as that.

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Speaker 2: How long have you been an astronomer?

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Speaker 3: Well? Ever since I was a kid. I mean the

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Speaker 3: first thing I remember is being wheeled in some kind

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Speaker 3: of carriage I guess it must have been, and looking

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Speaker 3: up at the night sky. So I loved it. So

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Speaker 3: I was a kid, studied, of course in school, taught it.

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Speaker 3: Used to teach a college astronomy at Merritmount College here

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Speaker 3: in upstate New York, and so it's a life, lifetime thing.

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Speaker 3: How I became editor of a Discover magazine and a

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Speaker 3: columnist in astronomy, and now the editor of the Old

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Speaker 3: Farmer's Almanac the last thirty years is just I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think good luck because it's fun and not everyone

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Speaker 3: gets to do that.

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Speaker 2: So my father bought me a telescope when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, and I just loved it. I grew up

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Speaker 2: in Detroit, Michigan, so I would take it out in

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Speaker 2: the winter time. Sometimes it was crystal clear twenty degrees

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Speaker 2: out at night, but it was just a marvelous thing.

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Speaker 2: And I will always remember Bob aiming it at Saturn,

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Speaker 2: and I saw the rings of Saturn with this little

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Speaker 2: three inch telescope, and I have never seen anything as

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Speaker 2: gorgeous as that in the sky.

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Speaker 3: I know just what you're talking about, you know. I

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Speaker 3: still marvel at the at the at the moon. After

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Speaker 3: I didn't even want to say how many years reveal

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Speaker 3: how many years I have been doing this, but how what

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Speaker 3: the heck, it's about half a century. I've been looking

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Speaker 3: at them, and I have two observatories here in the

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Speaker 3: nice dark skies of upstate New York. And I'm still

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Speaker 3: not tired of the George. Still love exploring the lighting

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Speaker 3: because it changes every day on the moon.

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Speaker 2: It really does. Yeah, can you help us with the

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Speaker 2: Big Bang theory, Bob, I don't I don't get I've

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Speaker 2: interviewed physicists, planetary experts. Nobody can tell me how things

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Speaker 2: started from nothing.

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Speaker 3: Well, you just said it. If the Big Bang theory

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Speaker 3: is true, and there's a lot of evidence that it

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Speaker 3: must be true, it would mean that the universe started

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Speaker 3: from nothing. Now, come on, can you really get anything

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Speaker 3: from true nothingness? Isn't it against logic?

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: So we're left with a universe that since the nineteen

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Speaker 3: twenties we've known that everything's flying apart from everything else,

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Speaker 3: and the farther something is from us, the faster it

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Speaker 3: is flying away. In fact, I can even give the

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Speaker 3: figure of people, like anyone out there likes math, for

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Speaker 3: every million light years farther from Earth that you are,

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Speaker 3: things are flying away thirteen miles a second faster. Think

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Speaker 3: of that speed, thirteen miles per second. That's pretty fast.

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Speaker 3: So every million light years further from Earth, things are

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Speaker 3: going thirteen miles per second faster. That means you can

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Speaker 3: just sort of trace everything back and everything must have

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Speaker 3: been in one place at one time. That time was

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Speaker 3: thirteen point eight billion years ago, So that shows us

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Speaker 3: the Big Bang or something started the universe expanding. It

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Speaker 3: was all in one spot thirteen point eight billion years ago,

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Speaker 3: and it's been expanding ever since. Also, if the Big

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Speaker 3: Bang is real, there ought to be a left over

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Speaker 3: a signal or radiation as some call it, heat two

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Speaker 3: point seventy three degrees of heat coming from the entire

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Speaker 3: sky evenly, and there is. We discovered that in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, so that supports it. Also, if the Big

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Speaker 3: Bang was real, the universe ought to have a about

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Speaker 3: the concentration of hydrogen, helium, and lithium, the three lightest

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Speaker 3: elements that it actually does. So, George, all that evidence

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Speaker 3: is pretty much proof that the Big Bang really happened.

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Speaker 3: But as you just said very correctly, that means that

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Speaker 3: the universe started from nothingness. And how can anything start

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Speaker 3: from nothingness?

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Speaker 2: That's what I don't get that.

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Speaker 3: I just don't The reason all your astrophysicists are saying

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Speaker 3: things that don't make sense is that if you really

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Speaker 3: follow the truth is the Big Bang had to have happened,

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Speaker 3: and the Big Bang couldn't have happened.

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Speaker 2: Do they bring God into the equation?

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Speaker 3: Well, well, some do. There's astronomers that are atheists, like

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Speaker 3: Neil degras Tyson. He lectures for atheist organizations and loves

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Speaker 3: to talk about how religion sets back astronomy, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I understand his being upset. I'm still not over. I

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Speaker 3: remember I was a teenager when I first read a

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Speaker 3: first time to count from the year sixteen hundred about

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Speaker 3: this poor guy named Giudano Bruno in the year sixteen

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Speaker 3: hundred who has burned at the stake and their are

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Speaker 3: eyewitnesses that talks about his screams. I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: horrible stuff. And all he had done really was say

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Speaker 3: things like there might be life on planets around other stars,

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Speaker 3: which kind of everyone says these days. But he said

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Speaker 3: that back then, so he was ahead of his time,

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Speaker 3: and for that they burned him at the stake. So

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Speaker 3: I don't blame anybody for being anti religion if that's

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Speaker 3: what religions did to scientists. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: people like Neilde Gresseeisen get upset if you believe that

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Speaker 3: there's some kind of intelligence underlying the universe, that okay,

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Speaker 3: we can I don't mind the word god. I'm not

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Speaker 3: bothered by Some people are because they had bad experiences

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Speaker 3: I guess in church when there were kids or something.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't bother me any But you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, George, If you open the window and you

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Speaker 3: look out the window at nature, doesn't it seem as

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Speaker 3: if like there's a smart that nature is smart, that

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Speaker 3: there's intelligence out there. It seems obvious. Even people say

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Speaker 3: things like you can't fool the mother nature, you know.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody sort of thinks that nature has intelligence

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Speaker 3: behind it. And if there's intelligence that's everywhere in the universe.

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Speaker 3: We have a worship that we call that God. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's other attributes we can also say about it, and

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Speaker 3: I don't have a problem with that.

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Speaker 2: Is it conceivable that we will really never get the answer? Uh?

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Speaker 3: You know, I think it depends. There there are states.

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Speaker 3: Now this is going to sound a little weird if

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Speaker 3: you'll just bear with me a little bit on this.

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Speaker 3: In the about half the world is Hindu and Buddhists,

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Speaker 3: and they believe that there is a state of perception

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Speaker 3: or state of mind, or a state of experience in

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Speaker 3: which you actually experience the truth of reality of the universe.

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Speaker 3: They call that realization or enlightenment or satory or somebody

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Speaker 3: or nirvana. There's a lot of words for it, or

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Speaker 3: cosmic consciousness or God consciousness, a million words for its. Supposedly,

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Speaker 3: saints in the West and in the East over the

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Speaker 3: centuries have experienced it, and ordinary people have experienced it.

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Speaker 3: And if you actually experience this state of consciousness, but

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Speaker 3: it's not logic. We're not talking about figuring this stuff

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Speaker 3: out logically. We're talking about actually being in a different

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Speaker 3: state of consciousness, then you know the truth of the

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Speaker 3: universe and know that there's no such thing as death actually,

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Speaker 3: and know that time doesn't exist, and all sorts of

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Speaker 3: stuff that just sounds crazy when you put it into words. So, yes, George,

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Speaker 3: I think you can know the truth behind the universe,

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Speaker 3: but not through logic, not through figuring it out, not

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Speaker 3: through science. I mean, science is great at what it does.

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Speaker 3: If you want to build a bridge, you don't use

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Speaker 3: Eastern religion, you use science. If you want to figure

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Speaker 3: out how to build the best jetliner, you use science.

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Speaker 3: But if you really want to know the truth behind

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Speaker 3: the universe, whether God exists, whether whether time exists, whether

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Speaker 3: there's really such thing as death, or what happens after life,

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Speaker 3: then then you're not going to just use science or

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Speaker 3: logic or math. No, then you meet something else.

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Speaker 2: What would you say, might be the single most amazing

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Speaker 2: scientific fact that nobody really has been aware of.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this is what I'm going to say now is

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Speaker 3: really real. And I don't think one person in a

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Speaker 3: foundsand knows it. And that is in vision. When we're

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Speaker 3: looking at anything using our vision of course, our language,

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Speaker 3: and even what is taught to kids at school, is

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Speaker 3: that anything you look at, let's say you're looking across

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Speaker 3: the room. Right now, Let's say you're indoors or driving

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Speaker 3: in a car and you're looking at something. We all

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Speaker 3: assume that what we're seeing is thought our bodies in

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Speaker 3: the distance, maybe a few feet away, maybe following, and

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Speaker 3: that any colors that we see are really out there,

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Speaker 3: and that the eyes are like clear glass windows that

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Speaker 3: let those colors in so that we experienced them. But

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Speaker 3: science tells us something that nobody seems to be aware of,

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Speaker 3: and that is there really are no colors out in

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Speaker 3: the real universe. Now how do we know this? Because

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Speaker 3: what light is We haven't known this for a long time,

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Speaker 3: more than a century, but not beyond that light is

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Speaker 3: made up of electrical pulses and at ninety degrees to

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Speaker 3: it magnetic pulses. So light are electric and magnetic bits

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Speaker 3: of energy. In fact, we even call it electromagnetic energy.

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Speaker 3: So red light, blue light, green light, whatever is really

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Speaker 3: pulses of electricity and magnetism. All right, now, the eye

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Speaker 3: is blind. The human eye can't see magnetism. We know

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Speaker 3: that the eye can't see electricity. We know that too,

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Speaker 3: So the eye really can't see what light really is

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Speaker 3: real light, And we call those photons, little bits of

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Speaker 3: lighter called photons, don't have color or brightness. They have

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Speaker 3: magnetic and electrical energy. And what happens is that when

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Speaker 3: this reaches the retinas of our eyes. The retinas are

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Speaker 3: head and there's three different types of cone shaped retinal selves.

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Speaker 3: They're stimulated by that energy. It creates kind of heavy

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Speaker 3: duty signals that go into our brain, and our brains

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Speaker 3: create a experience because of that in our brains. And

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Speaker 3: this is just not my idea, although it sounds crazy

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Speaker 3: because somehow people don't know this. If you open any

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Speaker 3: physiology book, even just basic college phys theology book about

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Speaker 3: the vision, it'll say that in the brain, especially near

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Speaker 3: the back of the brain, the occipt the lobe of

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Speaker 3: the brain, that's where colors are created and perceived. So

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Speaker 3: when we see red and blues and greens, all of

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Speaker 3: that is being created just in the brain, and they're

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Speaker 3: not it's not really out there. So if you if

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Speaker 3: you tell somebody that science tells us that the sky

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Speaker 3: isn't really blue, that it has it's either blank or

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Speaker 3: black because real light, photons of light are only magnetic

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Speaker 3: and electrical impulses which we can see, and that the

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Speaker 3: mind or the brain, if you prefer, is what responds

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Speaker 3: to that by creating sensations of color. So the world

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Speaker 3: that we see is in our brains or in our minds.

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Speaker 3: And that means, and this is going to sound really

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Speaker 3: like almost kookie and crazy, that when we look around us,

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Speaker 3: all the brightnesses and colors that we see are really

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Speaker 3: the inside of our own brains. Now that does mean

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Speaker 3: they're not real. Nobody's saying that that's not real what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing. What it does sort of is blurs the

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Speaker 3: difference between the internal and the external. We're not when

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Speaker 3: we see a visual world, we're not really seeing an

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Speaker 3: external universe. We're seeing really the inside of our own minds,

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Speaker 3: because that's the only place that colors exist. Now, scientists

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Speaker 3: realized this, not everyone, but most scientists. Isaac Newton knew

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Speaker 3: this four hundred years ago, which is really amazing, because

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Speaker 3: how the heck could he have known that colors come

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Speaker 3: from the brain. I don't even understand how he knew that.

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Speaker 3: But he wrote a little piece that he called the

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Speaker 3: rays like rays of light, the rays are not colored.

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Speaker 3: He actually wrote that, So he knew that of stuff

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Speaker 3: four hundred years ago. And I think that's the single

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Speaker 3: most truth scientifically, that's basic truth. People who study physiology,

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Speaker 3: how vision works, how the brain works, knows this and

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Speaker 3: knows that colors are only in the brain. They're not

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Speaker 3: in the outside world. And probably not one person in a.

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Speaker 2: Thousand knowsis you say that those who created the quantum theory,

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Speaker 2: those people about a century ago stumbled into something about

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Speaker 2: the universe. What was that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, these guys were really really smart, I mean lot

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Speaker 3: smarter than me. We were talking about people like we

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Speaker 3: started with Max Plank and Heisenberg and Werner Heisenberg and

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Speaker 3: when Schrodinger and I mean we use quantum mechanics. That's

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Speaker 3: been probably the truest uh science theory ever. You know,

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Speaker 3: everybody knows about Einstein and mass and energy being the

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Speaker 3: same and equals mc square, and give Einstein lots of credit,

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Speaker 3: but it's quantum mechanics that's responsible for the transistor and

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Speaker 3: for for for for more technological achievements than anything else.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast a m every weeknight

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