1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Today's episode of Ephemeral features the track Deathless by musician 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:11,239 Speaker 1: Nathaniel Kraus. Here the full piece at Nathaniel Krauss dot 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: band camp, dot com, links and more on our website 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: Ephemeral dot show. Ephemeral is production of my Heart three 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: D audio for fell Exposure. Listen with that phones. This 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: is our second episode based on my conversation with explorer 7 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: and author Arling Cogan. If you miss it, Part one 8 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: will give you more backstory about earls life as an explorer. 9 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: I've just done a lot of interviews. Are like, I 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: feel like you've done probably a tremendous amount of interviews 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: in your life. I have never counted. Ah, yeah, you 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: know when silence came out, and also walking came out 13 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: and philosophy for polar explorers. So I did honor something 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: too is probably, but recently not so many. I guess 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: I'm late to the party that that I happened. Congratulations. 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Earling spent his young adulthood engaged in record setting expeditions, 17 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: sailing around the world, climbing on everest, hiking to the 18 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: North and South Poles on foot the ladder completely alone. 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: Then I kind of changed my life and became a 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: family man. I'm still a family man, but I think 21 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: it's a season of every thing. And I keep on 22 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: doing old doors and keep on doing expeditions, but with 23 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: a lower profile, and I really enjoy writing books. In 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: After we put out the episode Sounds of Silence, on 25 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: the work of composer John Cage, a friend gave me 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: a copy of EARLINGOK Silence in the Age of Noise. 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: This is probably the trickiest question I give you all day, 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: But what what is silence? Silence is to me more 29 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: like an idea in the sense that before I start 30 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: to write about silence, and also before I walked alone 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: to the self pole, almost in total silence, I thought 32 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: about silence as the opposite to sounds. But of course 33 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: sounds you can measure in decibels, while silence you can't 34 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: really measure. So to me, silence is kind of the 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: opposite of noise. And then I think about noise. Obviously 36 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: it sounds, but it's also all kinds of distractions you 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: have through today, that the telephone is beeping, a car 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: is passing, a radio is running, and of course also 39 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: you're like man made lights. During the nights, you can't 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: see the starry night and all this is noise to me, 41 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: and silence is about yourself. It's about your inner core. 42 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: It's about getting to know yourself. And this silence, inner 43 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: silence is there all the time waiting for you to 44 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: explore it. We're living in the age of noise. So 45 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: much is about noise. So much is about forgetting yourself, 46 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: and about living through other people, living through your telephone, 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: living through a TV series, living through games, etcetera. You 48 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: keep on telling yourself all this kind of small day 49 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: to day lives and half truths. Silence is about the opposite, 50 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: is about getting to know of yourself, and of course 51 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: to get to know yourself. That has been said for 52 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: thousands of years. That's one of the most important things 53 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: you can do to live a rich life. And I 54 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: think every idea that has survived for more than one 55 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: thousand years you should take seriously. In the book, Earling 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: sides a lot of great sources on silence, including artists, philosophers, scientists, 57 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: and poets, but maybe the most important research came from 58 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: personal experience. You know, my best background is that I 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: walked by myself to the South Pole for fifty days 60 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: and nights with no radio contact in total silence into 61 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: this huge last white nothingness which is Antarctica to the 62 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: South Pole. As the first doing it Solow. That expedition 63 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: taught my great lesson of silence, because you know, when 64 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 1: they walked down there and you don't talk to anyone, 65 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: and you kind of stopped thinking. Because as soon as 66 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: you start to think too much, you think about the 67 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: past or the future. That's kind of noise too. So 68 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: it's starting to experiencing the world. Experiencing yourself is getting 69 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: to noviorself better. When I started out, I felt that 70 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: everything was white and everything was flat all the way 71 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: to the horizon. But as the hours and days and 72 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: weeks passed by and you kind of start to see 73 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: that it wasn't totally white after all. It was a 74 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: little bit bluish, reddish, greenish, even pinkish in the snow 75 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: and the eyes. And it wasn't flat either. It was 76 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: kind of different structures on the ice. So then I 77 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: start to wonder if Antarctic I was changing, But of 78 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: course Antarctica remained the same. I was the one who 79 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: had changed. That experience really taught me a great lesson 80 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: on silence. And as the pulvert Emi, the Dickinson wrote 81 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: the brain is wider than the sky, and by that 82 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: expedition I very well understood what she meant. And then 83 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: I became a father of three girls, and I had 84 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: to start to get a proper job, and my life 85 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: became all about noise afterwards. So this combination about doing 86 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: outdoors and living a busy life, like most of the 87 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: people maybe really feel for writing on silence. And also 88 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: then I sat on to read great philosophers on silence, 89 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: and also some you know, some great authors who have 90 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: already written about silence. But the problem with the philosopher 91 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: is that you know, hardly any philosophers actually write about silence. 92 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: One of the first things you read learn at college 93 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: studying philosophy is that nothing comes from nothing. Ex and 94 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: he'll he'll fit. You know, it's easy to think about 95 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: silence as nothing, and then nothing comes from nothing. I 96 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: was just surprised to see how few philosophers actually had 97 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: bordered thinking about silence. Why do human brains up for chaos? 98 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: Why does it seem like all of us are just 99 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: our brains are just destined for chaos sometimes, you know, 100 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: to me, it was a surprise because when I sat 101 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: down to write about silence. You know, I thought about 102 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: myself and everybody else that in the mind that you 103 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: didn't have too much chaloes. But starting to think further 104 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: about it, I think we all have these chales in 105 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: our head almost all the time. The importance of silence 106 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: is sometimes to get order or all these chaos being 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: present in our own life, to experience not to think 108 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: too much. Also, in the scilence, you're kind of seeking opportunities, 109 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: So silence is also kind of opposite all these chaos 110 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: that goes on in our minds all the time. Demo 111 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: technology is certainly a great disturber, but I think it's 112 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: important to think about in a time before all this technology. 113 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: Three fifty years ago, seventy years ago, this French philosopher 114 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: Blessed Pascal wrote this book where he claimed that no 115 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: man is able to sit by himself for fifteen minutes 116 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: in silence doing nothing. Of course, when he wrote this 117 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: in the six and fourties, it was already a big 118 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 1: problem that we have chaos in our minds. Of course, 119 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: today with the smartphone and all this other technology, the 120 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: problem has become so much more massive. So back to 121 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: Pascal again, instead of doing nothing, we start to do something, 122 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: and I think that's the origin of course not all, 123 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: but most other problems. If I managed to kind of 124 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: sometimes just be quiet, be still listening to ourselves, not 125 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: exploring yourself in the world while looking into a screen, 126 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: but kind of look up, I think we can find 127 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: much more peace, and you can find much more low 128 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: I think, and you will live a more meaningful life. 129 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: So it's not about being anti technology. It's more like 130 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: learning how to relate to technology, because you know, it's 131 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: almost insane if you think about the way we're living 132 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: relating to technology. When they walk the streets and they 133 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: see grown men grabbing the telephones to the air like 134 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: there should be teddy bears and totally focused on that telephone. 135 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: To me, it's absolutely insane. I don't know what kind 136 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: of vertically I love to use in the program for 137 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: the kind of you know, you mind get absolutely fucked up. 138 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: You see home, you're googling something, you find what is 139 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: searching for Twenty minutes later, half novelater, you're still googling. 140 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: Some of the brightest people on Earth, working day and night, 141 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: extremely well paid to get too addicted to all this absolution. 142 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: But you know, in many ways it is absolutely terrible. 143 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: One of the things that I really appreciate about your 144 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: writing is that you insert yourself so much into it, 145 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: Like you talk about those things as being problematic, but 146 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: also like participating yourself in them, like as just like 147 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: another member of you know, of the human race in 148 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: this modern era. And that's how I feel, man. I mean, like, 149 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm big on the mindfulness and disconnecting and 150 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: getting out in the silence, but I also am doing this. 151 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: I do the same thing. I get in on the phone. 152 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: I feel like I talked on the phone for eight 153 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: hours yesterday or something. You probably did. You know, I 154 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 1: wouldn't like to write a book and give everybody advice 155 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: about how to live and look at me because I'm 156 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: such a great person, because you know, I'm also getting 157 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: hooked on this technology. And that's also why I thought 158 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: I had that message to tell, because I lived through it. 159 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: I always had my phone with me somehow, or I 160 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: tempted to have my phone with me all the time. 161 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: Maybe the biggest mistake of doing the world today is 162 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: to avoid nature, to think that we're kind of above nature, 163 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: that we don't need nature, that we don't need to 164 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: listen to nature. I think that's the main reason for 165 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: people feeling restless, why they feel insulated, why they feel lonely, 166 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: quite also why people feel depressed, because we avoid nature 167 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: almost happens. I've always been a walking species. We have 168 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: always been exploring the world by walking, by feeling, by touching, 169 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: by smellling, listening, see in and that has defined us 170 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: as a species. While today we're the first generation who 171 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: just sit on over arsis and exploring the world looking 172 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: down into a screen. And of course this is doing 173 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: something to our mental health. I just read in the 174 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: paper somewhere that people like average spent four hours every 175 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: day on social media, and other people, of course spent 176 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: four hours every day on looking at TV on what 177 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: don't you do both? But let's say you spend four 178 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: hours every day doing this kind of media, that adds 179 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: up to a hundred and twenty thousand hours of your life, 180 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: about thirteen years day and night plus minus. When you 181 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: are as well as me, you start to go to 182 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: six eighty ninety birthdays. In more ways, and Sweden we 183 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: have this problem which goes all this so comic in 184 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: the shunty at shall believe it. All these days amounts 185 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: and years that passed by, came and went I didn't 186 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: really understand that was life. Do you know? It's a 187 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: little bit sad because somehow people start to fair, not 188 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: on the death, but maybe even more to start to 189 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: fair late in life that I'll kind of missed alt 190 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: on this huge opportunity to have a great life. But 191 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: do not despair. How does one find silence in the noise? 192 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: Maybe try taking a walk? What does it mean to 193 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: live in the present moment? I think it's an idea 194 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: that we're all familiar with, but like, what does that 195 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: look like? Like? How how does one achieve such a thing? 196 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: You can achieve it by almost any means. First of all, 197 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: I think in general the present hurts, just like Pascal 198 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier on the present hurts, and that's why 199 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: we try to avoid it. And the opposite to the presence. 200 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: Of course, it's the future on the past, and every 201 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: time you think, as I said, you're thinking about the 202 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: future on the past. The present has to be about 203 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: experiencing the moment there and then I can do it 204 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: in nature. But you know, it's also about shutting out 205 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: the world and experiencing your own silence or you're inner silence. 206 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: Whenever you run, could food, have sex, study, chat work, 207 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: think of the idea, read or dance, and you know, 208 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: I love it. That's when you can be really in 209 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: the present moment. And of course if you make low 210 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: and you're not in the present moment, of course you 211 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: all experienced that, but it's not so interesting to make 212 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: low if you're not in the present moment. I think 213 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: it's different in early published walking one step at a time. 214 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: I think walking is quite often about silence. Of course, 215 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: you can walk with people and talk, or you know, 216 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: use your phone or listening to music. But sometimes I 217 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: would try to walk without holding anything in my hands 218 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: and not having anything in my ears, and then it 219 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: is very much about silence. You have it in the 220 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: English language, just like you have it in the Norwegian 221 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: language and in sun script. That when you move you're 222 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: being moved motion, emotion. So this is something you find 223 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: in almost any language, at least as I know about. 224 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: So this walking is doing something to your mind. The 225 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: reason Socrates was walking all the time was not because 226 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: you wanted to become fit. It was because you want 227 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: to meet people and they want to think better, like 228 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: a Steve Jobs. Definitely a huge and very important innovator 229 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: and businessman, and of course he walked all the time too. 230 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: And also, of course I think a great thing with 231 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: walking is that get all to the house, to get 232 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: away from a family, get away from your friends. You 233 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: can have a break and you can decide your own 234 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: speed and hopefully you can see the starry night or 235 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: the sunrise, or you can listen to the birds, are 236 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: listening to a river, or you're just footsteps, and all 237 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: this is about getting closer to yourself. I think it's 238 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: definitely plaform of meditation, and I think meditation in general, 239 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: and yoga and mindfulness, all these are to me great ideas. 240 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I wrote those two books 241 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: was because I felt you can definitely experience great meditation 242 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: and also deeper in a silence without using any techniques, 243 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: for instance, just by walking. That's cheap and it's always 244 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: availble bull like I flew from all Slaughter Sri Lanka 245 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: to be on this retreat. It was either there that 246 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: it was a vegan, it was your goa all the time. 247 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: It was quite silent, peaceful, and it was great. And 248 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: when I came home after twelve days or something to Norway, 249 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: I was very happy. But then I started to wonder, 250 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: did that we all have to travel half the world 251 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: to experience this kind of emotion. Um uh yeah, I 252 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: haven't come back to Sri Lanka. I kind of very 253 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: interesting when you mentioned that you personally maybe use working 254 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: as one of your primary modes of meditation. Maybe that's 255 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: a little culturally determined, right, Like if you had been 256 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: born somewhere else, grown up somewhere else, that maybe it 257 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: would be a different approach. Absolutely, it's interesting to see 258 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: in theres of walking. It's like I grew up in Norway, 259 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: they close to nature. We didn't have a car. My 260 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: father insisted that cars and TV and motor boats and 261 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: a few other things very diseases in the world. So 262 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: we walked quite a bit, so of course I was 263 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: kind of ingrained in my life. One of the most 264 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: difficult cool questions I had as a father was my daughters, 265 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: all three daughters. They always asked me, why do you 266 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: have to walk when it's faster to drive? And I fact, 267 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: that's a very good question. And that's also another reason 268 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: I wrote the book, because you know, some of the 269 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: best and obvious things in life are not that easier 270 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: to explain. When I wrote about walking, I just studied 271 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: walking cultures in different places, and interestingly, like in Bombay 272 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: in India, you see poor people walking all the time. 273 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: Rich people they are having cars and even helicopters to 274 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: get around, And of course in a norn Europe you 275 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: see that it's the opposite. It's quite often the privilege 276 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: of walking because they have the time and all. So 277 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: you can quite often the live in nicer neighborhoods, so 278 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: closer to the forest, so it's kind of more natural 279 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: to walk. But walking is something also deeply democratic because 280 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: everybody can do it. When you read about the big 281 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: revolutions in history or the world, at least the ones 282 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: I've read about, they have usually started by people walking 283 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: the streets. And of course this is something politicians quite 284 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: often are kind of worried about, because if sufficient of 285 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: people walking the streets, they become very, very powerful. And 286 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: also walking is a bit an artistic in the sense 287 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: that as long as you're driving, you will kind of 288 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: get from a to B in a particular speed and 289 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: you will follow the rules. Or you take the metro, 290 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: or you take the channel, you take the bus, and 291 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: it's all kind of regulated by the government. But then 292 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: by walking, you can walk very we like you don't 293 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: have to follow the tracks of the form all the 294 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: trump and you can have your own speed, you can 295 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: do details, and you can stop whenever you please. You 296 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: mentioned politicians, right, like, certainly here in the US, I 297 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: think of it at least like a certain national out 298 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: of politicians, Like they come up in black cars, they're 299 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: surrounded by people, they're sort of swooping out of place, 300 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: and then they leave out. You don't really see your 301 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: representatives walking around with the people, And I guess it's 302 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: different in doorway. Yeah, I think that's a very valid 303 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: point because you know, one problem is, of course that 304 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: you never see your own politicians. Good afternoon, everybody, quiet weekend. 305 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: But I think it's a even bigger problem that politicians 306 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: never see you. I'm not commenting, so they kind of 307 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: absolutely separated from their own citizens. And of course, you 308 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: know this makes sense due to security and blah blah blah, 309 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: but also think it's kind of lacking willingness to meet 310 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: people because it's quite comfortable to move around and not 311 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: having to relate to the people. Today, it has become 312 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: a democratic problem in many parts of the world that 313 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: the people who are supposed to help you to sort 314 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: of two problems and support you and be your best 315 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: representative in the government. Then no, the true statistics and 316 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: by reading and studying and advisors, but they are absolutely 317 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: no cue who you are as you said in Norway. 318 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: Fortunately it's better. It's not perfect hair either, but here 319 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: you can actually see the Prime Minister shopping milk in 320 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: the evening on the way back home from her office. 321 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: It's it's quite sweet. And of course with five point 322 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: five in the people, it's much much easier. But I 323 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: think it's very important for everybody to walk the streets 324 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: and get to know your fellow citizens and see what 325 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: it looked like. It's important to keep in mind that 326 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: it was not we who invented the possibility to walk 327 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: on two legs. It was the possibility to walk onto 328 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: legs who invented manity. And then eventually, due to evolution, 329 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: we can walk on two legs. We're able to move 330 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: much longer distances, able to hunt fish, move around covering 331 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: huge distances. Then, all the time that we went off 332 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: from Eastern Africa, it has always been about walking, about 333 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: doing something physical to survive and to prosper for over civilization. 334 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: Of course, the developmental languages has been very important, Farming 335 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: has been very important, and walking has been very important 336 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: to make us into who they are today. So many 337 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: people talk all the time about the search in the hurry. 338 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: It's there has so much to do, blah blah blah 339 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: blah blah. But of course, if you're going to watch 340 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: a lot of TV and social media, it feels like 341 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: you have a lot to do, but you know you 342 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: really have time to spend fire ten minutes extra walking. 343 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: In general, it's a huge misunderstanding like this that you 344 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: have to drive all the time to save time. Time 345 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: is extended when you move slowly, and opposite, if you 346 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: drive quickly from A to B, you don't hardly experience anything, 347 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: either in a chunnel or on the surface, but still 348 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: have to watch the light. You have to be careful, 349 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: and although it goes quicker, nothing is happening, and then 350 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: it feels like time moves really quickly. However, when you 351 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: move slowly from A to B and suddenly you start 352 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: to see people, you start to see how people addressed. 353 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: If in a city you start to see shops, what 354 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: the houses are looking like, you start to get the smells, 355 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: you hear all the sounds, and then because so many 356 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: small things are happening, time is expanding and you feel 357 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: that you have experienced something, and life get richer than 358 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: kind of a ten second can feel like internity, I 359 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: can have the kind of also the same experience in 360 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: my own living room if we're reading a great book 361 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: or thinking of listening to music, and they had this 362 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: kind of feeling that like time is just expanding. But 363 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: then again, if you're kind of doing the same things 364 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: every day, harder and a variety, you hardly see anything 365 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: one day that you didn't see the day before or 366 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: experienced more less exacted same things, then time moves very quickly. 367 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: Um Like people said to me like, oh, you know, 368 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: in years ago, time so quickly. And also I'm sixty. 369 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: You can hard to tell them that, you know, I 370 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: feel that life is long. Time moves slowly. I don't 371 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: want to move in the slower You've got a great quote. 372 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: I think this is one of yours. You call lots 373 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: of billion people obviously to this one. Letting your body 374 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: travel at the same speed as your soul. Yeah, it's 375 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: a quote from me, but the idea is not original. 376 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: I think many people have felt the same and talked 377 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: about the same. If you move too quickly, your spirit, 378 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: your soul is just lagging behind you. That's also what 379 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: I mean, like you're not experiencing so much, you're not 380 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: diggesting your what you're seeing, what you're kind of going through, 381 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: because you've gone too fast. Another big misunderstanding today is 382 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: like things are just going to happen quickly. You're going 383 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: to have a quick fix, You're going to go from 384 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: one mood to another fast. While I'll find it when 385 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: I'm out in a nature that I'm just becoming a 386 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: part of everything which is surrounding me. Every now and 387 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: then when the wind is blowing, you kind of feel 388 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: is a part of you. You know, if you see 389 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: a bird which somehow you know has a broken leg 390 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: going or whatever kind of painful for you too. We 391 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: need to respect nature, and we need to learn from nature, 392 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: and we need to listen to nature, because nature has 393 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: a lot to tell us about where we come from, 394 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: where we are, and also quite a bit about what's 395 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: going to happen next. And of course when you walk 396 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: in the cities or do an over hike in the force, 397 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: part of every something fantastic is happening, but like small 398 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: details are going on all the time. I have kind 399 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: of fun or found interesting sometimes to look at people 400 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: how they walk. Quite often by looking how they move forward, 401 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: you can tell if you're in good mood, bad mood, 402 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: if they're depressed, if they are optimistic, Like if you're 403 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: really sad, you kind of crumbling in, almost shrinking, and 404 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: you're dragging your feet after you. You kind of lower 405 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: your head, love your neck even, you know, briefing in 406 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: a different way, and you're much more tense in your 407 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: whole body. And opposite, if someone is super happy, just 408 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: got a great message, they walked offly. Differently, if a 409 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: couple walk together, if they're in low you know, you 410 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: can just tell by the baldy language. And opposite, two 411 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: people walk together and they have fed up at their shold, 412 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: you can also tell by your body language. And also 413 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: if one is fed up and the other one is 414 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: still in love, we can also tell. You can also 415 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: quite often tell I couldn't say accurately, but what kind 416 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: of profession they have. One of my neighbors is former 417 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: army officer, and it still walks like an armory of officer, 418 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: although his retired. You can spot a lawyer or an 419 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: auditor that kind of a little bit similar, and the 420 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: priests will work differently. Again, how long has it been 421 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: since you're last confession. I'm not saying it's kind of 422 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: one to one. You can just say that's guy is 423 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: a priest, that guy is a football player. But it's 424 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: just fun to try to guess. In general life, I 425 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: think curiosity, curiosity also about people, is super important. I 426 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: love curiosity, and I think you know it's stop being 427 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: super curious and you become a very old man. Are 428 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: there moments in your day. There's certainly moments in my 429 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: day where it's like, Okay, I need to just stop 430 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: what I'm doing, I need to hit pause on the 431 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: rest of my life and just walk for like twenty minutes. Yeah, 432 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: in my life too, And I think twenty minutes is 433 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: a good number because it doesn't have to be long. 434 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: Twenty minutes is great, I think, but even less can 435 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: change your dramatically. As you know you asked earlier on 436 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: about meditation. We just walk for fifteen twenty minutes and 437 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: without talking on the phone or checking your phone and 438 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: maybe not talking to anyone, just kind of having a 439 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: break to me can re energize me. You still need 440 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: as much sleep, at least I do, but my whole 441 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: attitude and also the way I move it totally changes. 442 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: I think this is something like people have been doing 443 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: to every generation for thousands or years. But interestingly, now 444 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 1: you can see, like you know, quite often universities are 445 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: starting to study kind of what everybody knows, and I 446 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: think it's University's, Stanford, University of Virginia, something together that 447 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: have kind of proven that just while walking fifteen minutes, 448 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: your creativity goes dramatically up and your mood goes up, 449 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: and you know it makes a wonder for you. Of course, 450 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: two and a half thousand years ago, hippocratist the father 451 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: and modern medicine, he said, the best medicine in the 452 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: world is to do a walk. And if you come 453 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: back from a walk and you're still in a bad mood, 454 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: you should go for one more walk. And his third 455 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: advice was just make sure the doctor is not giving 456 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: you the wrong medicine. So I think it's three great advices. 457 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: Also in one it's wild to me because I feel 458 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: like we all know that that walking is good for 459 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: your health, your spirit, your mood, your heart, your soul. 460 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: Like I think we all intrinsically know that, and yet 461 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: sometimes it feels, i don't know, like hard advice to take, 462 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: like to just take a break. Yeah, it's quite often 463 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: when I read articles is about educating people, like telling 464 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: them what's best for them and blah blah blah. And 465 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: this should be done by you know, of course schools, college, 466 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: the government, private businesses to should kind of tell you 467 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: what's good for you, which quite often that's a good reason. 468 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: But quite often, as you say, we know what's good 469 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: for us, nobody needs to tell you you should exercise, 470 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: you should walk, you should move around, you should not 471 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: sit in a share all day. This almost everybody knows. 472 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: Quite often, it's not a lack of knowledge, it's just 473 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: lack of like, you know, a little bit of guts 474 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: to get going. Yeah, when you were read in the book, 475 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean what you might have known someone this already. 476 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: But like health wise, physical, bodily, health wise, it seems 477 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: like walking can be incredibly good just for your well being. 478 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: It is, as a Hypocritus said two and a half 479 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, as you know it's quoted, it is 480 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: the best medicine. You know, It's an open question today. 481 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: Should be careful saying it, but you know, it's kind 482 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: of open question today if doctors throughout history has saved 483 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: more people than they have killed, at least if you 484 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: look before you got antibiotics, I think that maybe not killed, 485 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: but you know, maybe even you know, conditions even worse. 486 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: But of course the antibiotics, it was radical that help 487 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people. But prior to let's say nothing, 488 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: fourth to whenever fort five, it's not easy to figure 489 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: out how much help it was with dr or sexually. 490 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: But one thing which is absolutely shortness that people who 491 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: walks a lot, they're less sick, they are more flexible, 492 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: they are not on the living longer life than other people. 493 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: They also live richer, more meaningful lives than other people. 494 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: But still, you know, even the Norway could just tell 495 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: in many parts that even an old slowed capital of Norwa, 496 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: it's six d people still kind of you know, huge 497 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: neighborhoods where very few people are walking, they spend much 498 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: more time smoking, watching TV being inside. Average in those 499 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: parts of the city lives nine years less than they are. 500 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: Rich and other parts of the city. This is quite dramatic. 501 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: That's super sad. No I don't have a follow up 502 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: on that. I'm just going to change the subject. Do 503 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: you have any advice, practical advice for somebody that might 504 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: be listening and like wants to find some silence in 505 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: their lives and peace and some purpose. But it's maybe struggling. 506 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: I think everybody almost is struggling with it. So that's 507 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: a good start at list if you feel that you 508 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: are unique because it's struggling with it. It's like, as 509 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: you quoted Pascal the philosophers said, well this is a 510 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: universal problem or challenge to get to know of yourself, 511 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: and silence is you know very much about experiencing yourself. 512 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: So first of all, it is difficult. As you said, 513 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: the president is hurting, so I think that's a good 514 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: start to accept that. But then again, the silence we're 515 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: talking about now, this inner silence is within you at 516 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: all times, just waiting for you to explore it. So 517 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: it's no focus, focus, and I don't think you need 518 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: any formula. You need to just past this chresshold that 519 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: we talked about that for a few seconds of some minutes, 520 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: it is uncomfortable to sit or walk and doing nothing 521 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: and try to get into your inner PC in and 522 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: experience your own silence. It is uncomfortable sometimes, it takes 523 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: a lot of energy sometimes, and it can feel to 524 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: start with as a waste of time sometimes, but of 525 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: course it's not. It's what you know partly makes life meaningful. 526 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 1: The most important question you should ask yourself is how 527 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: should I live my life? You need silence, and your 528 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: silence is different from my silence. That's also why in 529 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: my book I'm not giving that many advices because we 530 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: have to accept. Like you know, everybody got their own silence. 531 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: And the reason is because silence is about who we are, 532 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: is about over personalities, about all our experiences. That's why 533 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: your silence will always be different from my silence. That's 534 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: really lovely. Thank you. Um. I wanted to at least 535 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: add just if you could tell me a little bit 536 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: about your your publishing company and why you started in 537 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: the kind of in the kind of work that you 538 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: do there. You know, you do whatever you do, you 539 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: do it for more than one reason. But a few 540 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: of the reasons I started publishing was because my girlfriend 541 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: was pregnant. So I want to have a job. I 542 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 1: want to an interesting job. I like publishing because you 543 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: both have to be commercial but you also have to 544 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: think about intellectual matters all the time, so kind of 545 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: you need to think about both, which fitted me and 546 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: I have always read this since I was ten years old. 547 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,760 Speaker 1: I learned how to read late. I read lots of books. 548 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: I was kind of familiar literature, so I felt I 549 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: had something to contribute, and I want to earn enough 550 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: moneys i could buy a house for my family. So 551 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: that's kind of why I started book publishing. And I 552 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: did it for a few years and I liked it 553 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 1: a lot, so I've done it for twenty five years. 554 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: It's a it's a great job. I don't know if 555 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to do it the rest of my life, 556 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: but at least it is a great job to published books. 557 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: So today we are Norway's biggest on nonfiction and we 558 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: also publish children's books, a little bit, philosophy, sound fiction, 559 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: and I have turned two four colleagues and it's great, 560 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: it's meaningful. The world is getting a little bit better 561 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: because you published great books, just like you with your podcast. 562 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: The world is getting a little bit better, and I 563 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: think that's very important because everybody can change the world, 564 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: but you know, you need to do it in tiny 565 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: persons at the time, you've written six books eight sorry, 566 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: you've written April books now. First I wrote about walking 567 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: North Pole and to the South Call. Then I book 568 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: on the Three Poles and some old expeditions. And then 569 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: I wrote a book I call Philosophy for polar Explorers, 570 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: kind of what I didn't teach me at school kind 571 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: of book. And then I wrote a book about crossing 572 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: New York City. I wrote a book about art collecting, 573 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: and then I wrote a book on Silence and the 574 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: Woman Walking. This is also a really cool on the bookshelf, 575 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: like I want to get more and more of your 576 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: of your books that are they are this size. But 577 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 1: one of the things I really like about the way 578 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: that you've structured is it almost reads like a series 579 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: of Cohens and Mando's, Like do these sort of individuals 580 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: sometimes like parable kind of stories sometimes sort of always 581 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: gonna ask you. Did you write the book in no regionally? 582 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: Did you write it in English? In the first place, 583 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: I've wrote it in the Norwegian I have to, but 584 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: then I worked really hard to get the English. As 585 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: you say, that is kind of more like a meditation, 586 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: like I wanted to read or to be almost a 587 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 1: little bit apotized while reading. And also, like you know 588 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: you said, esthetics I think is really important because I 589 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: think especially book on Silence, but also walking, it has 590 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: to somehow reflect the content of the book. And I 591 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: think you know, books should be beautiful and great to 592 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: have around you. If not, you know, you could just 593 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: have e book or listen to no streaming, which is 594 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: good too, but that's a different story. Yeah, well it's 595 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: it's uh, both of those things that I mean, specifically 596 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: on on the On the writing, it's very effective. I 597 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: mean hypnotizing is a great word for it. Um. The 598 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: English prose is beautiful and it's so poetic and so 599 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: excellent job. I mean, I know this is your business, 600 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: but from from from my humble opinion, good job. Thank 601 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: you know it's more than the business, because you know 602 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: it's I don't think it hardly anyone sits down to 603 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: write a book because that would like to earn money. 604 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: I think you know the reason to write a book 605 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: is uh, and these are no both of us all 606 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: for us publisher. You know that has to come really 607 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: from your heart. So I wouldn't spend a year and 608 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: a half to write you know. That's finn book and Silence. 609 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: If I didn't really feel that I had something really 610 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: important to say, well, Early, thank you so much for 611 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: the time that you gave me today. My my pleasure, 612 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, I I feel privileged, would be invited to 613 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: be able to talk about things that are really close 614 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: to my heart, so thank you, or us to say 615 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: Norwegian to some touch. This episode of Ephemeral was written 616 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: and assembled by Alex Williams, with producers Max Williams and 617 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: Trevor Young and editing by rima Il Kali. Special thanks 618 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: to Nitro Sound in Oslo, Norway, and to Andrew Howard 619 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: for gifting me a copy of Silence in the Age 620 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: of Normals, which, along with Walking One Step at a Time, 621 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: are the books by Arling Cockay on which this conversation 622 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: was based. Find them wherever books are sold, and find 623 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: us on the worldwide Web at Ephemeral Show. For more 624 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio 625 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show. 626 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: Would be such an