Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? Guess who's here?
Speaker 2: Are you shooting now? Yeah?
Speaker 1: This is how it goes. I know it's pajake.
Speaker 2: It's just nice. It's a sooth kind entry. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: very nice. It's very Christian.
Speaker 1: If you can't tell by her voice, Sarah Jessica here,
Speaker 1: I'm here. I know you can't tell. It is Joy
Speaker 1: as I told her when she walked in. Thank God
Speaker 1: we have this so that I can see her face
Speaker 1: to face. It is wonderful and I have been I
Speaker 1: literally have so many things to talk to you about
Speaker 1: that I don't even know where to begin, because I
Speaker 1: have been fully steeped in season three and season four,
Speaker 1: which I know that you don't watch, but I need
Speaker 1: to represent to you the unbelievable brilliance. And I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not kidding. It is I cannot believe
Speaker 1: that we made the show that we made. Wow, That's
Speaker 1: that's how I feel.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: It floors me.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: I had Julian and Elisa on yesterday because we got
Speaker 1: to my mother board myself, which was their first episode.
Speaker 1: The amazing TV job.
Speaker 2: I mean to think now, as you've already stated, and
Speaker 2: I can just emphasize again how little I recall, which
Speaker 2: at this point might be purposeful. But I do recall
Speaker 2: a lot about my mother board myself, because I think
Speaker 2: a large number of us didn't even know what a
Speaker 2: motherboard was. And so there was that, which is just
Speaker 2: understanding motherboard. But also tech serve featured prominently, which is gone,
Speaker 2: which is so sad. And that was the episode. Is
Speaker 2: that Cynthia's mother? Yeah? Wow, yes, yeah, I can't believe
Speaker 2: that was their freshman script. Real. Yeah, it was such
Speaker 2: a you know, such a declaration of know here we are, Yes,
Speaker 2: we're hugely talented, and they just had it felt so
Speaker 2: right that they had been given that.
Speaker 1: I was so smart about that. We talked through that
Speaker 1: process a little bit, like how did they come He
Speaker 1: had had it on the whiteboard as Miranda's mother will die,
Speaker 1: which was a huge departure fresh We had not at
Speaker 1: that point done anything Familion then, right, And as Astuf
Speaker 1: who came earlier today was saying, the whole episode is
Speaker 1: about grief, right, because you lose your writing, which is
Speaker 1: your identity, you know, to a huge extent. And also
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier in the season in my mind,
Speaker 1: and Michael Patrick's coming next week. He told me, I know,
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: Wait Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can't wait. I saw him when he
Speaker 1: got honored for the Human Rights Council whatever it is.
Speaker 1: It was amazing, like just the you know, he put
Speaker 1: a clip together. It was so incredible, and of course
Speaker 1: I cried and I was, you know, my Craig. But
Speaker 1: it's just so incredible to have been part of all
Speaker 1: of it, you know, and just doing things because we
Speaker 1: wanted to do them, I know, not really realizing the
Speaker 1: history and the repercussions and the connectedness and the.
Speaker 2: Chatter and the peripheral feelings. I think that wasn't a
Speaker 2: singularly unique time, but relative to the ways in which
Speaker 2: we live now and experience and absorb culture, it was.
Speaker 2: It feels like it was, you know, almost like a
Speaker 2: new born baby.
Speaker 1: There was so.
Speaker 2: Little cynicism about about work and you know, reception, and
Speaker 2: I think so, you know, lots of television shows had
Speaker 2: come and gone, great shows, lesser successful. Meeting shows had success,
Speaker 2: they had disappointment, they failed. They were monumental and consequential.
Speaker 2: But I think what was unique was that HBO to
Speaker 2: your point. Didn't care about reference. They were just doing
Speaker 2: what they wanted to do. So if there was any
Speaker 2: reason to be rational about choices, well don't do that,
Speaker 2: because this show didn't have luck when they did that,
Speaker 2: or there was a really strong reaction, or there was controversy.
Speaker 2: That just wasn't the way they made decisions. And that
Speaker 2: kind of ego filtered down to the shows, which was
Speaker 2: if you could afford it, for the most part, go
Speaker 2: ahead and do it amazing, Like if you can get
Speaker 2: that inside our budget every now and then you had
Speaker 2: to beg for rain, you know. Yeah, But I think
Speaker 2: that was just a massive advantage of the times in
Speaker 2: which we lived, and that time at HBO where absolutely
Speaker 2: it was new enough to be almost reckless. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: there was like a decadence to making television.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like it's hard to even really fathom the
Speaker 1: differences now, which you know, I don't even know. That
Speaker 1: would be a different podcast. But I'm so happy that
Speaker 1: we were able to create in that. But I also
Speaker 1: feel like the choices that were made and you were
Speaker 1: a huge part of that. And I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that because one thing that I
Speaker 1: do notice and I was aware of this at the time,
Speaker 1: but not fully right because I was just in it
Speaker 1: and trying to do the best I could do and
Speaker 1: trying to wear the shoes and blah blah blah, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to stay awake when I had to or whatever.
Speaker 1: Your credit, you know, is at the point where it's changing, right,
Speaker 1: Like now we're co executive producer and originally it was consultant.
Speaker 1: What was that like and what was your thinking about
Speaker 1: being part of the decisions.
Speaker 2: So when I met initially with Darren in ninety six,
Speaker 2: ninety seven, right, because we shot the pilot in ninety seven, correct.
Speaker 1: I think so, And it was on the idea, Yes,
Speaker 1: So I.
Speaker 2: Met with him and we met at Eli's, I think
Speaker 2: that version of say Bars on the Upper East Side
Speaker 2: on Madison, which was a very and continues to be
Speaker 2: a very fancy but maybe some might argue the greatest
Speaker 2: egg sil at in New York City. And I was
Speaker 2: very happy to meet him there, understanding that typically that
Speaker 2: lunch is going to be paid for, you know, if
Speaker 2: you're invited, And we talked and talked about this show
Speaker 2: and this idea and this pilot, and he said to me, then,
Speaker 2: and you know, you should produce the show at that
Speaker 2: first meeting, and I said, I I don't know how
Speaker 2: to produce a show. And he said, how long have
Speaker 2: you been on sets? How many years have you been
Speaker 2: on sets? And you know, I sort of thought about
Speaker 2: a number, and he said, you know how to produce.
Speaker 2: You just you just weren't paying attention. You just weren't
Speaker 2: thinking I should be watching for this reason. You were
Speaker 2: simply watching. I'm putting words in his mouth, but that
Speaker 2: that was the essence of the conversation. And I was,
Speaker 2: you know, hesitant, because I felt ill equipped and I
Speaker 2: didn't want to walk on a set in a position
Speaker 2: of an authority in title or any reason without feeling
Speaker 2: like I, you know, had the street credit. And he said,
Speaker 2: why don't you just be a consultant the first year?
Speaker 2: Just be a consultant, go to meetings, listen and learn,
Speaker 2: which was so wise and such good counsel and also
Speaker 2: just I think enormously generous, because it did, in many
Speaker 2: ways offer me a second career, like it paralleled the
Speaker 2: work of an of my life as an actor, but
Speaker 2: that allowed me to learn something else, which I think
Speaker 2: is invaluable, whether or not I chose to do anything
Speaker 2: with it. But what I discovered is I love producing,
Speaker 2: and I thought producing was really also just simply about math,
Speaker 2: which I had, you know, basically failed. Like as a student,
Speaker 2: I tested very poorly in math. I panicked over math.
Speaker 2: Math tests very poorly on my PSATs as if I
Speaker 2: never entered a classroom in my life. That's how I tested.
Speaker 2: And of course what I came to learn also is
Speaker 2: that producing is people. It's people, people, people, people people.
Speaker 2: And you can learn budget, you can learn union laws,
Speaker 2: you can learn you know, over time, golden time, you
Speaker 2: can learn wages, but how you handle that information is
Speaker 2: far more important than balancing the checkbook in a way,
Speaker 2: if you're a responsible person anyway that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yes, very much so. So I didn't know any of this.
Speaker 1: It's super, super fascinating. So in the beginning, the consultant
Speaker 1: was something that was Darren's idea, and you were kind
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I don't want to overstep my budor.
Speaker 1: But then as time went on, how did it become
Speaker 1: a larger and larger part.
Speaker 2: I think what happened is when Michael took over season two. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's always like this mysteries that we make that up,
Speaker 2: and he and I just had a kind of affinity
Speaker 2: for one another. And I think because he was assuming
Speaker 2: a really important, critical role and I was kind of
Speaker 2: changing the way I was interpreting my job outside of acting,
Speaker 2: we sort of there was this a kind of alignment,
Speaker 2: and I think we felt we needed each other. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And therefore my work as a producer became more important
Speaker 2: because our collaboration felt so necessary and important, And I
Speaker 2: think he was looking for someone to talk about ideas
Speaker 2: and feelings and scripts and pictures and colors, and I
Speaker 2: was looking to learn more about his work and how
Speaker 2: I could be a good and helpful partner and co
Speaker 2: producer or whatever I was called at that point. And
Speaker 2: so I think the more you listen and learn, and
Speaker 2: the more you're able to be a good collaborator and
Speaker 2: hear people who've done it longer, no more, the better
Speaker 2: partner you are. And so I think that season two
Speaker 2: we just started understanding our roles more clearly, if that
Speaker 2: makes sense, and you're just much more more invested. The
Speaker 2: more responsibility you have two people to a company, to
Speaker 2: a partnership, the more important those choices in those conversations become. Right.
Speaker 1: The thing for me that's interesting in terms of observing it, right.
Speaker 1: I think I've talked about this before. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've talked to you about it, but I remember
Speaker 1: so clearly the pilot. I don't know if you remember this,
Speaker 1: when we go to the Chinese restaurant. It was like
Speaker 1: our first group scene, basically.
Speaker 2: I do remember that.
Speaker 1: And this is when you still had to talk to
Speaker 1: the camera, and it was super stressful and it was
Speaker 1: very strange because you had to take yourself out of
Speaker 1: the scene and talk to a mystery person in the camera,
Speaker 1: but you were talking to yourself, right, And I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there and I'm just all like, whoah oh. That's my
Speaker 1: general feeling at all times, and obviously very nervous also usually.
Speaker 1: And I remember a conversation that you had with Darren
Speaker 1: about the talking to the camera, and I thought you
Speaker 1: were completely because I knew he was an actor. How
Speaker 1: would I even do that. Yeah, it's a very strange
Speaker 1: thing for me, right, And we've talked about that before.
Speaker 1: But what I remember being so impactful for me was
Speaker 1: how you spoke to Darren because you you know, he
Speaker 1: was in charge and I had only ever known him
Speaker 1: in the Other World network world of Melrose and whatnot.
Speaker 1: And it's not like he was, you know, autocrat or anything,
Speaker 1: but he was like, I want you to do this,
Speaker 1: like let's try this, you know whatever. And you were
Speaker 1: just very calm and talking to but you were you
Speaker 1: were so calm, but you were very clear in a
Speaker 1: way that I hadn't really seen other actors do at
Speaker 1: that point, because I had not been like our creation
Speaker 1: was different, you know, it was different from the beginning, right,
Speaker 1: And and you had it back and forth with him,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yes, she's right, because it was wacky,
Speaker 1: you know what he was asking. And sometimes Darren would
Speaker 1: just have an idea.
Speaker 2: You know, like which is good and welcome, of course,
Speaker 2: of course, but sometimes it.
Speaker 1: Would be strange, like I remember one time later on
Speaker 1: maybe in is one, you're looking through a window at
Speaker 1: shoes and suddenly like basically an emoji appears on the screen.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And you're just like, wait, what's happening? And do
Speaker 1: you remember how they used to do like split screens
Speaker 1: when we were on the phone or whatever. Yes, and
Speaker 1: then they'd move like Brady Bunch, yes, just like wait wait, yes,
Speaker 1: that was him trying stuff out right. Well, there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that, But it's also like you're just like, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: what what's going on? Are like Sparkly Star is going
Speaker 1: to show actually what is happening? Which brings me to
Speaker 1: one thing I'm gonna ask you about in a second.
Speaker 1: But the thing that I love, and that really the
Speaker 1: reason that I still think about it, is that I
Speaker 1: loved the way that you spoke to him from a
Speaker 1: place of like calm, power, not power power, of like
Speaker 1: it will be my way. And he wasn't saying that
Speaker 1: to you either. It was I'm in my skin and
Speaker 1: this is how it feels, and this is what I'm
Speaker 1: worried about. I'm worried that it's taking me away from
Speaker 1: the group scene, which is really important, and from the instincts,
Speaker 1: there was nothing more important if you think about our trajectory, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that if he had not in our
Speaker 2: initial meeting, if he'd not been so hospitable to me,
Speaker 2: just in general, but also the ways in which he
Speaker 2: he felt like I could and should do this part,
Speaker 2: I probably would not have had the courage to share
Speaker 2: with him when something didn't feel good right. And I think,
Speaker 2: in particular to talking to the camera, for me, felt
Speaker 2: really problematic because I think, as I said at the time,
Speaker 2: it's extremely hard to do well. And as you know,
Speaker 2: I repeated, my husband did it in a movie, and
Speaker 2: he did it extremely well, and it felt like a
Speaker 2: kind of device that suited that movie so perfectly. And
Speaker 2: I don't have to go into all that, but if
Speaker 2: the thrust of our show, as I understood it at
Speaker 2: that time, were these kinds of intimacies and conversation and
Speaker 2: the necessity of these friendships, and the fact that it
Speaker 2: was a column, if the human exchange weren't so important,
Speaker 2: and maybe if we were a three camera show, you
Speaker 2: could have felt like a kind of buoyancy around that
Speaker 2: that would be funny, and maybe the audience could start
Speaker 2: getting involved with it and you could like almost like
Speaker 2: score it with music and like you could do a
Speaker 2: whole thing with it. But to be a single camera
Speaker 2: show at that point, darkly lit like cinematic, it felt
Speaker 2: like the Sesame Street, like one of these things is
Speaker 2: not like the other. It didn't. So I think my
Speaker 2: argument at the time was, I think it's hurting what
Speaker 2: you're really trying to do, which is the thing that
Speaker 2: matters most to you. And I don't think I'm doing
Speaker 2: it well, which is also problematic. It's not going to
Speaker 2: be good. I think it's going to hurt the show.
Speaker 1: Right, and you were one right in my opinion. But
Speaker 1: what I loved about it was that you you were
Speaker 1: fully invested from the get go, and I don't think
Speaker 1: you know another way to be right. I only barely
Speaker 1: met you that day, you know what I mean, But
Speaker 1: like that's just who you are, which is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And what also, I feel like as time went on
Speaker 1: and your title grew, and basically what you're saying is
Speaker 1: that Darren kind of planted the seed and then you
Speaker 1: and Michael had this kind of meeting of the minds
Speaker 1: and souls, right, and flowed from that. I was thinking
Speaker 1: about this too as I'm watching in my mind what
Speaker 1: I think I had done, because I watched these shows
Speaker 1: as though I have never seen them lately, Like I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I don't remember the Almos.
Speaker 2: Will ever have a courage to do that?
Speaker 1: I hope and I pray that you will. Like I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that you never get sick, and I don't
Speaker 1: want you to ever get sick. But let's say sometime
Speaker 1: you pick up a virus or whatever.
Speaker 2: I never do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: This would be an excellent way to feel better. I
Speaker 1: think because having the distance now that we have, because
Speaker 1: I always watched it right away when we got it
Speaker 1: because it was so exciting, right and remember we used
Speaker 1: to get the vhs and they weren't always complete. There
Speaker 1: might be a card or music or whatever, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Right so now, And I thought I
Speaker 1: knew a lot, and I do in some ways. But
Speaker 1: like I was trying to get ready to come here
Speaker 1: yesterday and I was doing my makeup while I was
Speaker 1: watching my mother board myself and Sirjisca. It floored me
Speaker 1: and I cried my makeup off.
Speaker 2: Wow it wow is so good.
Speaker 1: It is so like beautifully crafted and created and acted
Speaker 1: and all of the things. But also it's about loss,
Speaker 1: and we're little babies. Yeah we don't really know it's present. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that made me just so moved, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's hard, but it's also great, I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: I kind of just don't know how we did it,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's just this miracle that everyone came
Speaker 1: together and were able to create a situation which I
Speaker 1: think you and Michael through your partnership it bled down
Speaker 1: right that everyone was included, you know, like in the storytelling,
Speaker 1: like Julian and Melissa, who were so young, could just
Speaker 1: walk in and write that scrip.
Speaker 2: You can't believe it, right? And that was their memories
Speaker 2: or do you not want to spend time talking about that?
Speaker 1: No? No, their memories are great because what their memory?
Speaker 1: They're so adorable and funny. And how old were they?
Speaker 1: I mean I should have asked them because I didn't
Speaker 1: ask them. In their twenties, yeah, carally young and they
Speaker 1: had been go out in La meeting. They had a
Speaker 1: pilot and their agent told them to go meet Darren
Speaker 1: Start the next morning. They were like, no, sorry, we've
Speaker 1: got a flight, and he was like, you're going to
Speaker 1: change your flight and you might have to sleep on
Speaker 1: so much floor, So they had to sleep on their
Speaker 1: friend's floor. They were a little cats, do you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? But they're also so adorably rounded in
Speaker 1: themselves that they were No, and then Darren and then
Speaker 1: they came to the writer's room and then Michael did
Speaker 1: his magic, you know, like cultivating them and giving them
Speaker 1: the confidence. But also they told me a funny story
Speaker 1: that he would pop his head in their office door
Speaker 1: and be like you're fired, just to keep everyone on
Speaker 1: their toes.
Speaker 2: And they had the office at Silver Cup. I remember
Speaker 2: their offices. I think they were upstairs above.
Speaker 1: Yes, Michael, Yes, above the floor where we would do
Speaker 1: it most like the second mezzanine, weird floor. Then sometimes
Speaker 1: you'd get off and you'd be like, wait where am I?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were straight up there.
Speaker 1: And they also talked a lot about Jenny and Cindy
Speaker 1: and the kind of female bond and that they were
Speaker 1: there first and they were kind of senior to them
Speaker 1: and really helped them. And it's so beautiful to her
Speaker 1: about it's incredible. And soon we'll have a maybe Harris
Speaker 1: and we'll have listed chill getting to them. It's so
Speaker 1: much fun to think back on and.
Speaker 2: Just Amy will be super interesting because she was there
Speaker 2: really from the beginning.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think i'll say this to herb
Speaker 1: but I remember her carrying Darren suitcase.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she was his assistant. Yeah, like it's amazing,
Speaker 2: it is amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's really And now she's
Speaker 2: a showrunner and impressive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sons.
Speaker 2: One of the things you know, you talk about, you
Speaker 2: know a kind of when you talk about the work
Speaker 2: being good, which is so nice to hear. I remember
Speaker 2: the church, I remember obviously tech serve. I remember wrapping
Speaker 2: the computer in a scarf for something. Yes, I think
Speaker 2: it is Becky and Baker in.
Speaker 1: That episode the Sisters, the first time we see her.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you know, and I think we've discussed this before,
Speaker 2: but it bears repeating. It's not as if it was,
Speaker 2: you know, completely free of any complexity, but it was
Speaker 2: so happy. Like I think of being in that church
Speaker 2: for countless hours, and all the background players that were
Speaker 2: there all day long, and just the kind of working environment.
Speaker 2: It was funny and fun and the crew was always
Speaker 2: laughing and working the hardest of everybody, you know. Yes,
Speaker 2: and big equipment in those days, bigger, those big, big,
Speaker 2: huge lights, big cameras with film and real film, and
Speaker 2: loading magazines of film and carding them from far away
Speaker 2: to a shoot, you know, to a location that we
Speaker 2: couldn't have the trucks nearby. And just the kind of collegiality,
Speaker 2: the kind of fraternity and sorority that surrounded it. I
Speaker 2: think helped a huge amount because and it's not that
Speaker 2: great work can't happen when people are unhappy and there's
Speaker 2: lots of examples of that too, but I prefer the former,
Speaker 2: of course, you know, so part of me isn't even
Speaker 2: surprised that you're experiencing it that way because we liked
Speaker 2: doing it, Yes, like we really loved the table reads.
Speaker 2: You know. If something didn't feel right, we tried to
Speaker 2: talk about it and see if it could adjust it right,
Speaker 2: make it feel more right or more correct, and then
Speaker 2: be told the reasons that we're wrong, you know, which
Speaker 2: I tend to believe, you know. Yeah, but there was
Speaker 2: a real kind of youthful energy. Yes. I don't mean
Speaker 2: that spiritually even, I mean like sincerely from people from
Speaker 2: all ages. Yeah, you know, useful energy from sixty year
Speaker 2: olds to twenty year olds, you know, and that includes
Speaker 2: cast crew and everybody in between. Yes, for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean there's so many things that I think of
Speaker 1: when I'm watching it, and because I talk about it
Speaker 1: and my phone algorithm shows me things. I saw this
Speaker 1: at door picture and I was going to try to
Speaker 1: print it out, but I forgot. You know, the white
Speaker 1: dress when you break up with Big in front of
Speaker 1: the plaza and you say you're christ and you're yes, beautiful.
Speaker 1: There's a great behind the scenes picture where you're standing
Speaker 1: kind of in the forefront. I'm sure it's the proper
Speaker 1: Roozzi whatever, but less than obviously, yeah than now. But Collins,
Speaker 1: Joe Collins is in the background when he was focused pulling,
Speaker 1: and he's wearing like a straw.
Speaker 2: Oh he well, he wore the hat all the time.
Speaker 1: You remember, and the shorts and like a wife beater
Speaker 1: because it was like one hundred degrees.
Speaker 2: Super handsome.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so handsome. And I just remember how
Speaker 1: they got us through the day.
Speaker 2: They're amazing. The camera department was beyond It was so superior, right,
Speaker 2: they were incredible, and everybody, you know, matriculated up, everybody.
Speaker 1: I know. I tell you that I had the crazy
Speaker 1: like fantasy when we came back to doing just like that,
Speaker 1: that they were going to be there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know that they have huge.
Speaker 1: Titles now, I know, and we got a wonderful crew,
Speaker 1: but like it is so interesting to think of like
Speaker 1: that McDonald, Oh my god, incredible in peace, yes, Joe, Dolly,
Speaker 1: Joe Manory, oh my god, like every camera person, my
Speaker 1: camera incredible, y.
Speaker 2: Yes, your man who was he? He always called his
Speaker 2: wife the bride, our big gaffer, our big uh. He
Speaker 2: moved all the sad Lowry.
Speaker 1: Oh low Lowry. Do you remember Bobby my driver?
Speaker 2: Of course, of course Bobby, because then Bobby started driving me. Yes,
Speaker 2: when super Dave left, Yes, super Dave.
Speaker 1: I love it so much. Okay, wait, we could go
Speaker 1: off on so many tangents. But one of the things
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you, which was really highly highly enjoyable, because,
Speaker 1: as I said, in my mind, and Michael Patrick tells
Speaker 1: me that he's going to be able to fix this
Speaker 1: when he comes. But in my mind, I have no
Speaker 1: memory of season four, and I now realize it Seamson four,
Speaker 1: season four, So much happens, Sir Jusica. I mean, it's insane.
Speaker 1: But in my mind what I think happened because we
Speaker 1: shot eighteen episodes season three and eighteen episode season four.
Speaker 2: Do we really? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Can you believe?
Speaker 2: Wow? Yeah? I believe that wow.
Speaker 1: And that is also when we started getting nominated for things,
Speaker 1: so it became a year round situation, got it, which
Speaker 1: is what I remember, which, of course I was thrilled, right, right,
Speaker 1: but also like what do I wear my head cut off? Right?
Speaker 1: But in my mind, I think I conflated them into
Speaker 1: one because a lot of the storylines. It's when we
Speaker 1: really invest in the long term storyline. Got it, got
Speaker 1: we double down on it, right, Yeah, and we become
Speaker 1: more brave in terms of like my motherboard myself, grief
Speaker 1: has suddenly entered the picture, you know, not just a
Speaker 1: breakup but actual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as kind of life altering exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: We're really, in my mind like understanding that we can
Speaker 1: do those things and trying them, you know, and succeeding
Speaker 1: so beautifully, which is amazing. But it's I think part
Speaker 1: of the reason I don't remember it is because it
Speaker 1: was personally so kind of overwhelming, right, like the success.
Speaker 1: Do you remember when we first got nominated for an Emmy?
Speaker 2: I could pretend I have more detailed memories. Here's what
Speaker 2: I do remember about all of it or awards, is
Speaker 2: that Amy Harris always knew everything. Like Amy Harris was,
Speaker 2: you know, somehow from New York City, embedded in trade information,
Speaker 2: and she always came to me the night before nominations
Speaker 2: and I was always like, oh, Amy, I didn't know
Speaker 2: about this. Why did you tell me? I don't want
Speaker 2: to know about this? I don't I would say I
Speaker 2: didn't care because it, you know, would potentially be too
Speaker 2: painful to care and if we'd been not considered previously,
Speaker 2: we were just fine, I meaning total, not like we're
Speaker 2: just fine, meaning like, well, I don't we expected no,
Speaker 2: And I think the kind of there was a kind
Speaker 2: of a rub that you know, we were these out
Speaker 2: of town ers, we weren't really part of a television industry,
Speaker 2: that we weren't playing the game, yeah, or that we
Speaker 2: just hadn't kind of like been part of a courtship
Speaker 2: that's more traditional. And even if that hurts your feelings
Speaker 2: for a minute, I don't think it, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of was long term damage. So it was better to
Speaker 2: stay distant and circumspect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really healthy attitude. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's like just the only way to survive
Speaker 2: and not feel crappy if your industry says, right, we're
Speaker 2: not considering new people of course in New York City,
Speaker 2: and there were so many other wonderful things about being
Speaker 2: part of our show that you know, we're really sustenance.
Speaker 2: So if it hurts for a minute, that's all right, right, Right,
Speaker 2: If you break something that's like super important to you
Speaker 2: or lose something, my way out of it typically is
Speaker 2: and I'm not talking about people losing people. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about like a thing like a nomination or but in
Speaker 2: this case, you know, an important necklace, and I would
Speaker 2: tell my I just tell myself, I didn't know about
Speaker 2: that thing four weeks ago or three years ago. It
Speaker 2: wasn't in my life, right, I didn't need it, want it,
Speaker 2: count on it, look at it, hold it where it's melody. Yes,
Speaker 2: So a nomination. I sort of felt the same way
Speaker 2: if if I felt that there was disappointment, that Michael
Speaker 2: was disappointed or anybody else, I would feel it. But
Speaker 2: then I think I didn't even know about this stuff
Speaker 2: three years ago, or I didn't know about this stuff
Speaker 2: forty eight hours ago before Amy. Here is my nominations
Speaker 2: are coming out, definitely, And if anyone ever asked me
Speaker 2: about it campaign, it's like, please don't ask me about
Speaker 2: a campaign. Please don't show me pictures for a campaign.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know about it. For all, we're
Speaker 2: not going to get anything. So that's how do it
Speaker 2: on your own, you want to do it.
Speaker 1: But also it didn't actually and I think this is
Speaker 1: important to even say now, in the way that the
Speaker 1: world operates, it doesn't actually affect the work that we
Speaker 1: were doing one way or the other. Right, It's not
Speaker 1: like because we won an Emmy, which we did, which
Speaker 1: we never thought we do. We did. The show won
Speaker 1: an Emmy first year, but no, but you, I thought
Speaker 1: you meant year. But she doesn't even know it is adorable.
Speaker 2: God, let me just clarify that the first year we
Speaker 2: were nominated, we did not win.
Speaker 1: I am light slightly unclear. So this is what we
Speaker 1: wouldn't when you were dominated and you won, okay, previous
Speaker 1: to the show being nominated and then the show. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think you were not there because it was a
Speaker 1: semi Emmys, because it was two thousand and one. Kim
Speaker 1: and I were there alone.
Speaker 2: No, wait, what year in two thousand and one? Was it?
Speaker 2: What part of the summer?
Speaker 1: It was the semi because I I was.
Speaker 2: Pregnant and I couldn't travel for one. And I think
Speaker 2: it wasn't that one. Okay, So wasn't that one.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that one. So remember nine to eleven happened.
Speaker 1: We're going to discuss the show's reaction and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: then we were supposed to have the Emmys like right after.
Speaker 1: I remember that I had had a photo shoot on
Speaker 1: September tenth, so I'd pushed my flight to September eleventh, Yes,
Speaker 1: I remember well, yes, And I had two vintage or
Speaker 1: Veilersaire original bandage dresses in my suitcase that I was
Speaker 1: supposed to decide between for the Emmys.
Speaker 2: Were you going to check that luggage?
Speaker 1: It was checked. It was checked because I was going home.
Speaker 1: I was a season, right, so I had a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. I had my golden retriever CALLI right. Yes,
Speaker 1: so we were all on that plane. I got Cali
Speaker 1: out of the underneath, can get the bags. I was
Speaker 1: really stressed about those original dresses late later, obviously not
Speaker 1: on the day. Did eventually get them back, thank god,
Speaker 1: and no one was upset with me, which was really nice.
Speaker 1: So then because of the war in Iraq, we had
Speaker 1: pushed the Emmys back right, and some people felt we
Speaker 1: shouldn't even have them at all.
Speaker 2: I remember some controversy around.
Speaker 1: And I want short dress, did you? That's why I
Speaker 1: call it the semi Emmys. I was like, it feels
Speaker 1: weird to get in the midst glam. And what I
Speaker 1: do kind of someone understand now is that you know
Speaker 1: that is enjoyment for people. People enjoy us getting dressed,
Speaker 1: going trying to celebrate things, right, Yeah, so, but at
Speaker 1: the time I don't I don't know that we felt
Speaker 1: that and we were all still just trying to recover
Speaker 1: our bearings, you know, from this situation. But that's why
Speaker 1: you don't really remember that one.
Speaker 2: Because only you and Kim went correct.
Speaker 1: God, is okay your Loane in our short Michael Patrick there,
Speaker 1: I don't think so, he's not the pictures. I have
Speaker 1: to ask him when I see him.
Speaker 2: And that and we won.
Speaker 1: Yes, the show won an Emmy for writing for the
Speaker 1: whole show. This is the give an award for the
Speaker 1: whole show.
Speaker 2: Sarah.
Speaker 1: You're making me.
Speaker 2: So happy right now because you're this. I really don't know.
Speaker 1: I know, I know everyone's is not feinting. This Okay,
Speaker 1: this okay, We're just going to show you pictures. This
Speaker 1: is how you're gonna remember. This is the year two
Speaker 1: thousand when you want a golden globe.
Speaker 2: I remember that dress? Yes?
Speaker 1: You remember who made it?
Speaker 2: Richard Tyler. Yes?
Speaker 1: Do you want to know why I remember?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: No, I also wore Richard Tyler.
Speaker 2: Do we both?
Speaker 1: We both wore Richard Tyler. I just know I don't
Speaker 1: think I knew you were wearing Richard Tyler, though, I
Speaker 1: think you told me to look up Richard Tayler because
Speaker 1: he was in LA. Right.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's right. He was in both New York and
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And he was
Speaker 2: a melo. Yes, yes, he had a shop.
Speaker 1: Think about it. Every time I drive by, it's not there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I had not had a stylist at that point.
Speaker 1: I didn't really don't know if.
Speaker 2: I had a stylist at that point.
Speaker 1: I feel like you might have had the rein, but
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Maybe not yet, I don't think so, Okay,
Speaker 1: got it, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I went over there to the shop, and the
Speaker 1: window of the shop was a beautiful red dress on
Speaker 1: the mannequin, and I was like, cord, I just wear that.
Speaker 1: They were like, uh, someone else could be wearying. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, you know, I never cared about that, right,
Speaker 1: And also like I didn't really understand what the Golden
Speaker 1: Globes was fundamentally, right, So I was just like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, so I wear this red dress. I do,
Speaker 1: in fact, run into a woman wearing the identical dress
Speaker 1: at the Golden Globes. She was very nice about it.
Speaker 1: She was possibly an executive's wife or something, you know,
Speaker 1: And I'm saying because she just went to women with taste, Yeah, yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: but you know it was there to die, right, and
Speaker 1: I loved it. But it rained that day, and my
Speaker 1: hair's all frizzy.
Speaker 2: Wow, and like.
Speaker 1: The I don't have the group picture of us, but
Speaker 1: Michael's got the curls.
Speaker 2: Jim crochy. Yes, I used to call them Jim crochy.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I remember when we remember how the film people
Speaker 1: would be at the lower level at the Oh you're
Speaker 1: reminded me, Yes, you remember, and.
Speaker 2: We could wash them back exactly if you've had a.
Speaker 1: Good view everyone we were.
Speaker 2: If this stage was in front of us, I think
Speaker 2: we were back on the right. Yes, we're back on
Speaker 2: the right, like audience right.
Speaker 1: That was our spot. Yeah, they would get our spot
Speaker 1: almost every year. It was fun times. But then when
Speaker 1: they call her name and we're just like what and
Speaker 1: we have to get up. We have to make it
Speaker 1: all the way down there, right, Why they.
Speaker 2: Voted for us? They must so nice, Jessica, they were
Speaker 2: really We.
Speaker 1: Just saw that lady when you got your your she's
Speaker 1: so lovely, right, like there are our biggest fans. It
Speaker 1: was incredible, incredible, And I remember having to go all
Speaker 1: the way down and I speaking from people, we.
Speaker 2: And our faces.
Speaker 1: Spoke to Darren Saren, Yes, Darren, and Michael Patrick's behind
Speaker 1: him with girls and we're all just like, we're all
Speaker 1: just like what we're up here. We're just like so
Speaker 1: like deer in the headlights. And my biggest memory of
Speaker 1: the whole thing, other than just the shock value, was
Speaker 1: Julianne Moore is sitting down in the film section and
Speaker 1: she is clapping like it's literally the best thing that's
Speaker 1: ever happened to her, but she's like levitating off her chair.
Speaker 1: It was like Julianne mourners from shore. And that was
Speaker 1: my first kind of introduction to the warmth that can
Speaker 1: be in our business, you know, like the support and
Speaker 1: the warmth from other people that you admire. It was
Speaker 1: so nice.
Speaker 2: That's really nice. That's a nice memory. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then the next day my memories continue. The next day,
Speaker 1: I went to return the dress that I had borrowed
Speaker 1: from the window, and when I walked in it was
Speaker 1: a pretty small store, like a pretty intimate store. I
Speaker 1: smell your fragrance because you had been nervous and you
Speaker 1: had spray.
Speaker 2: That's even when I'm not nervous.
Speaker 1: This is y she does. And this is before you
Speaker 1: had an official frigus. Yes, when you're mixing your yess,
Speaker 1: I had returned the dress. Yes, you had returned the dress.
Speaker 2: And it'd be good and punctual. Yes.
Speaker 1: Right, you taught me that it's.
Speaker 2: The it's the it's the honor system from the library. Yes,
Speaker 2: if you bring the book back, you get another exactly
Speaker 2: if you bring the dress back, Yes, they might let
Speaker 2: you borrow another one.
Speaker 1: Yes, you were saying in decent condition.
Speaker 2: With the exception of fragrance. Right.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful fragrance.
Speaker 2: I mean the whole story.
Speaker 1: I thought you were literally in the store. I was like,
Speaker 1: you start just in the back, and they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: she just returned the dress and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's her fragrance. And little did I know you were
Speaker 1: going to have this whole amazing fragrance like and now
Speaker 1: you have another one. This is what I want to discuss.
Speaker 2: Oh God, this is our like our fourteenth fragrance, is it? Oh,
Speaker 2: it's all birth from lovely got it? I Mean there
Speaker 2: have been some outside the house that don't a lot,
Speaker 2: meaning they're not they aren't children of Lovely, but this
Speaker 2: is the new one are kind of they're kind of
Speaker 2: almost standalones. The bottle shape is different, although there are
Speaker 2: there are design elements that mimic the cap of Lovely,
Speaker 2: so they're ribbed like the cap, the original cap of Lovely,
Speaker 2: and they have the grow grain of stripe, which is
Speaker 2: not to my mother, which was my also my shoes,
Speaker 2: so they are pieces and elements, and they're sort of
Speaker 2: triplets versus a singular.
Speaker 1: Got it. They related to each other.
Speaker 2: Only in packaging, not in juice, got it? So the
Speaker 2: sense are all entirely different. Wow, and actually there's four.
Speaker 2: I said three, but there's four. Oh there's three, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not mad. Okay, So the juices the fragrance don't
Speaker 2: have anything to do with one another, just the packaging.
Speaker 1: Got it of them? Am I going to be like, Oh, yes.
Speaker 2: They're not they're not going to feel reminiscent of Lovely, Okay,
Speaker 2: But they're great, They're they're much they're much less polite.
Speaker 2: You know, Lovely is like a very yes, it's kind
Speaker 2: of light, polite, very man like. It has very extremely
Speaker 2: good manners. You know, lovel is welcome. You know, I
Speaker 2: say it, and these are they have it. They have nice,
Speaker 2: strong personalities, they're more fun, they're more contemporary. Am I
Speaker 2: describing it? What would you say? Yeah? Like even the
Speaker 2: boldness of each bottle is like a bold color. The
Speaker 2: bottles are unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I mean it's a picture on the Instagram.
Speaker 2: They are amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I wanted to hear.
Speaker 2: In each side of those really kind of bold graph
Speaker 2: there's like something really graphic. The fragrances are are really
Speaker 2: they're great.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2: And then we have another one coming out after that.
Speaker 1: That's really good, I know, the fragrance. Yes, or your
Speaker 1: whole Now it's lovely. It's another lovely child.
Speaker 2: God at this point, great great, great great grandchild, got it.
Speaker 2: I think what you're now twenty incredible, our twenty first year.
Speaker 2: That's great, you know, it's funny. Lovely is twenty one
Speaker 2: years old? Almost?
Speaker 1: Wow? Your your first child?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Wait, how old is Jane?
Speaker 2: Well no, not my first child, but yeah, it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: first fragrance.
Speaker 1: I know, see they're frozen in my mind. I know
Speaker 1: I didn't say actual ages. Let's just leave them terrifying
Speaker 1: right as young Teddler's totally totally yes, yes when you
Speaker 1: think about So, we were talking a little bit about
Speaker 1: the trajectory of your producing right which I love the
Speaker 1: origin of it. I didn't know that origin story, and
Speaker 1: I feel like you stepped into it with such grace
Speaker 1: and the way that you were able to combine caring
Speaker 1: for the crew with the choices. I also remember that,
Speaker 1: like in the wee hours, you know, Melfie would come
Speaker 1: up to you. We'd be sitting in our chairs and
Speaker 1: he started talking to you about the next day, and
Speaker 1: I would just be like, oh god, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if I no listen, but you know, the all
Speaker 1: the different details that you had to take into consideration
Speaker 1: about the call and this call and that call and
Speaker 1: your call, and you know, you'd force your call and
Speaker 1: I would just be like, oh my god, she's so strong,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, how are we all going to do it?
Speaker 2: And we did.
Speaker 1: We found a way. We found a way, which was amazing. Sarah, Jessica.
Speaker 1: We could talk forever, as you know, So let's take
Speaker 1: a little break here and you guys, we will be
Speaker 1: back for another episode of Are You a Charlotte