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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norry

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Speaker 1: with you a special guest for us this hour, of course,

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Speaker 1: our expert on the Internet, Lauren Weinstein, who of course

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Speaker 1: appears with us quite regularly at our news segments, but

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Speaker 1: we've got him for the full hour. We will take

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Speaker 1: calls with Lauren at the half as well, many of

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Speaker 1: you interested in this kind of technology. Lauren, of course

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Speaker 1: has been involved with the development of the Internet for decades.

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Speaker 1: He began his involvement the early seventies at the first

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Speaker 1: sight of the Internet's ancestor, the Defense Department's site, and

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Speaker 1: Lauren is an expert regarding a wide range of privacy

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Speaker 1: issues as well, in addition to artificial intelligence and everything else.

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Speaker 1: In his website is Vortex dot com linked up at

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast dot com. Lauren looking forward to this welcome.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, George. It's always a pleasure to be here

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Speaker 1: for the law form exactly. I want to thank you,

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Speaker 1: by the way for your many appearances during our news

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Speaker 1: segments because they are so poignant, straight on and they

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Speaker 1: just give us a lot of information it's always my pleasure,

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Speaker 1: all right. I want your reaction to Russia looking like

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Speaker 1: they're going to clip the Internet as a test, But

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Speaker 1: I think there's something bigger afoot here. Yeah. I'm in

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Speaker 1: the school of thought that the thinks their main interest

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Speaker 1: is being able to control their own their own population,

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Speaker 1: their own Internet users, and to be able to control

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Speaker 1: the sources of information, or try to control anyway the

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Speaker 1: sources of information that their citizens and their population can

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Speaker 1: access outside of the outside of the control of Putinist government.

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Speaker 1: They are looking at what has been going on in

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong in the Chinese situation, and I don't think

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Speaker 1: they want it to happen in Russia. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: we can be sure. We can be sure of that.

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Speaker 1: And even though the Russia does not have the same

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Speaker 1: level of control over their Internet in in a global

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Speaker 1: sense that as China does, China really has an iron

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Speaker 1: fist on it. I think Russia is clearly moving in

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Speaker 1: that direction. And and even if they are not censoring

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Speaker 1: quite the same way that China is, I think they

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Speaker 1: would very much. I think that Russia would very much

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Speaker 1: like to have the ability to pull a switch, basically

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Speaker 1: push a couple of buttons, click the mouse a couple

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Speaker 1: of times, and be operating on an internal intranet and

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Speaker 1: internal internet that was under it completely under their control. Technically,

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Speaker 1: can they do that? I mean, is it possible? Because

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Speaker 1: what about the smartphones? Won't smartphones get through all that

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Speaker 1: and bypass it? Well? Not not if it's a question

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Speaker 1: of how the how the Internet is structured. You know,

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Speaker 1: way the way China has done it is they have it,

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Speaker 1: they have it very centrally controlled. And if you have

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Speaker 1: central government control, you're essentially controlling all the ISPs. And

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Speaker 1: if you control all the ISPs you have you have

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Speaker 1: the ability to throttle, to throttle traffic or to block it.

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Speaker 1: Russia can do basically the same thing within the context

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Speaker 1: of the way their Internet is structured. And if phones

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Speaker 1: are connecting to their mobile networks or to Wi Fi

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Speaker 1: network Wi Fi networks that are cable based or whatever,

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Speaker 1: they're going to go through those same channels. Now that

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Speaker 1: one there's a big exception to this though, of course,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to become a bigger and bigger exception

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Speaker 1: as time goes by, And that's going to be satellite

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Speaker 1: based services. How will that work? Well, that's going to

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Speaker 1: be very interesting because we have all these I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be thousands and thousands of satellites, low

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Speaker 1: orbit satellites that are going to be providing Internet service

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Speaker 1: of one sort or another. How well it's really going

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Speaker 1: to work is yet to be seen. How expensive it

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Speaker 1: will be is still an open question. But there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of companies now working on this and actually launching now.

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Speaker 1: One assumes that what will happen is that they will

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Speaker 1: they will have to make agreements with various countries not

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Speaker 1: to provide services over those countries, you know, under certain

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Speaker 1: conditions or possibly ever. But you know, where there's a will,

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Speaker 1: there's a way, and there's probably always going to be

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Speaker 1: ways that people in countries like China and Russia and

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Speaker 1: Iran or wherever, if they really want access to the

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Speaker 1: Internet and are willing to risk what's going to happen

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Speaker 1: if they get caught, which in some of those countries

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Speaker 1: can be very serious. Indeed, Uh, you know, they could

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Speaker 1: probably find some way to communicate to the outer world. Lauren,

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Speaker 1: what's your thoughts about Amazon shares dropping seven percent because

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Speaker 1: of a sluggish projections. Yeah, it's kind of it's kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting what that means in the long run is

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Speaker 1: kind of hard to say because there's always these kinds

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Speaker 1: of ups and downs in those kinds of prices. But

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Speaker 1: it's certainly clear that the mainstream retailers, you know, like

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Speaker 1: Best Buy and Mike, Walmart have been rapidly building out

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Speaker 1: their own retail online retail operations, and they have a

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Speaker 1: certain advantage that isn't talked about a lot that that

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Speaker 1: Amazon doesn't have. Amazon can deliver stuff really fast, but

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Speaker 1: having those physical stores around is very convenient to people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if they want to just get it immediately,

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Speaker 1: they can drive over there and pick it up within

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Speaker 1: an hour. If they want to return something, it's easier

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Speaker 1: some of these some of them are now offering their

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Speaker 1: own same day and next day delivery services. So Amazon,

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Speaker 1: you know, is clearly the eight hundred pound guerrilla in

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Speaker 1: this space. But you know, there is competition ramping up,

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Speaker 1: and it would be very interesting to see what happened.

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Speaker 1: Lots of hacking still going on. What the heck is

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Speaker 1: is happening in this world? Well, you know, people are

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Speaker 1: always looking for an angle, right they are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you when you think about it, hacking,

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Speaker 1: you know, computer hacking is just sort of a very

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, and I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: black hat hacking. There was a time when the word hacking,

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Speaker 1: when the word hacker did not have any any illicit

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Speaker 1: associations with it back in the early days. That that

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Speaker 1: term hacking has has kind of been kind of warped

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Speaker 1: over the years and now seems it's always kind of

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Speaker 1: a social illegal things. But of course people have always

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Speaker 1: been trying to find ways to to you know, make

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Speaker 1: a quick buck. And it was you know, over the phone,

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Speaker 1: over the internet, over the internet and the phone. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's part of the human condition and human nature.

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Speaker 1: What's the big issue you're looking at these days in

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Speaker 1: the computer world. Well, one of the things that's going

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Speaker 1: on right now that's kind of kind of interesting, and

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Speaker 1: it ties in with encryption and all kinds of other things,

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Speaker 1: is that cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. Bitcoin in particular has been

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Speaker 1: really been taking a hit lately in its price, and

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Speaker 1: it goes and it goes up up and down too.

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Speaker 1: But there are signs that the entire concept of cryptocurrencies

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Speaker 1: is starting to unravel a bit. It's waning, isn't it. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, we have to kind of separate

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Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies from blockchain, which is kind of the underlying technology,

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Speaker 1: and blockchain has kind of always been the the solution

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Speaker 1: in search of problems. I mean, and I have really

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Speaker 1: yet to see a problem that would be better solved

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Speaker 1: by blockchain than through some conventional technology. That's that's better understood.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of the reasons people have been using

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Speaker 1: things like bitcoin, uh you know, first off, you know,

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Speaker 1: for a while, there's it was a way to you know,

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Speaker 1: get rich quick, right, I mean, you would just sit

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Speaker 1: there on a computer and it would grind away and

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Speaker 1: generate bitcoins. But as time goes by, that's gotten more

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Speaker 1: and more difficult, and the amount of electricity it gets

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Speaker 1: used trying to generate bitcoins now is the reason that

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Speaker 1: these bitcoining farms are located where there's you know, where

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Speaker 1: there's relatively cheap electricity, where there's hydroelectric sources and things

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Speaker 1: like that. It's still a real waste of electricity one

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Speaker 1: way or the other. But the other thing about this

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Speaker 1: is that bitcoin has kind of been associated with illicit activities, right.

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Speaker 1: It's because it was it was considered to be and

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Speaker 1: is generally considered to have been an anonymous mechanism for

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Speaker 1: buying things. But what's happening now is even there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of things happening. One is advances in breaking encryption

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Speaker 1: are moving along quite rapidly. They're not really in play

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Speaker 1: yet for bitcoin, but as the years go by, that's

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Speaker 1: going to become more and more of an issue. But

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Speaker 1: there turn out there are other ways that authorities have

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Speaker 1: found their way into these bitcoin transaction chains. And just

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Speaker 1: very recently, just within the last I guess week or so,

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Speaker 1: the largest dark web global child exploitation ring was brought

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Speaker 1: down by government agents, apparently by tracing and decrypting, unraveling

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Speaker 1: I should really say, unrolling the bitcoin transactions that people

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Speaker 1: were using to pay for those services. And then of

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Speaker 1: course we have Facebook's libra plans, right, We've talked about that.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Zuckerberg was on Capitol Hill

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Speaker 1: talking about this again. I think they're losing support for this. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's putting it, that's putting it light the end. Polately,

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Speaker 1: they are getting it there. They're taking it from all

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Speaker 1: sides now on this one. The US government, the US

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Speaker 1: politicians are yelling at them about it. Other countries, the

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Speaker 1: EU is upset about it. A bunch of their high

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Speaker 1: profile partners have already pulled out before it even got started.

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Speaker 1: They've recently pulled out. And if I had to place

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Speaker 1: a bet, I would, you know, if I was a

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Speaker 1: betting man, which I'm not, I would say that the

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Speaker 1: odds of liber launching in any sense of any sense

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Speaker 1: that compares with what it was supposed to look like

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Speaker 1: would now seem to be be pretty low. I suspect

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Speaker 1: Facebook may want to just cut their losses on that

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Speaker 1: or or change what it is in some significant way

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Speaker 1: that avoids most of these problems. Why did they even

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Speaker 1: think about this from the first place? Money you'll profit

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Speaker 1: trying to find new new opportunities. I mean in general,

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Speaker 1: remember that the you know, any any any servi us

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Speaker 1: that depends on advertising has to adapt to the changing

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Speaker 1: dynamics of the advertising market, and it's clearly more difficult

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Speaker 1: now that it was years ago. So Facebook is looking

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Speaker 1: for other revenue sources, other profit centers. It seems to

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Speaker 1: me that given all the bad publicity that Facebook has

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Speaker 1: had in the recent past, cryptocurrency would not seem to

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Speaker 1: be one of those things you would you would you

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Speaker 1: would go after where you would expect to have everybody cheering.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a kind of problematic choice. But I

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Speaker 1: don't attempt to read or understand Mark Zuckerberg's mind. Well,

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Speaker 1: you saw what happened with Twitter today because of a

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Speaker 1: software glitch, their advertising took a tumble over the last quarter.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know something's going on here. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: advert avert. The Internet advertising space is getting tougher. I

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Speaker 1: mean that much is for certain, and that cuts across,

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Speaker 1: cuts across everywhere, and so you know, smart companies are

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Speaker 1: going to be looking for other other revenue sources to

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Speaker 1: to make up to make up for the difference there.

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Speaker 1: So so I think that's logical. But you know, one

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Speaker 1: hopes that you that they come up with ideas that

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Speaker 1: aren't going to be you know, a panned the way

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Speaker 1: the way Libra has been. I mean when I heard that,

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Speaker 1: when I ever heard that Facebook was going to do cryptocracy,

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Speaker 1: I kind of sat here and my boy, that's that's

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Speaker 1: a really odd choice. It seems to me maybe they

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Speaker 1: know something I don't. But given the reaction that the

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Speaker 1: negative reactions and again having their own many of their

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Speaker 1: own partners pull out already major major partners, that that

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Speaker 1: kind of puts a damper on the whole thing, And

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Speaker 1: doesn't it also contribute to the use of thoughts that

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Speaker 1: Facebook is a monopoly and they're taking over too many things. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, monopoly is not the word I use. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's you still have a lot of choices on the internet.

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Speaker 1: You know that. The choice that you really don't have

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Speaker 1: on the Internet in any practical way usually is your

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Speaker 1: local isp choices. They're usually very limited if you have

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Speaker 1: any choice at all. You know, in terms you of

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Speaker 1: one cable company, one telephone company. Sometimes only one of

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Speaker 1: them offers high speed service. Sometimes none of them do.

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Speaker 1: If you're not near a cellular carrier, a cellular data

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Speaker 1: tends to cost a lot more. So that's really where

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Speaker 1: the where the kind of monopoly sensibility is for these

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Speaker 1: other firms you know that that do these other things.

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Speaker 1: There's there still are a lot of choices. Clearly, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of uh, you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: power because you know, they have so many people that

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Speaker 1: like to use their services, and no matter how much

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Speaker 1: negative things are said about Facebook, for example, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who every day spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with Facebook, and no one holds you know, No

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Speaker 1: one forces them to do that, no one, No one

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Speaker 1: says you have to do that. They do it because

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Speaker 1: they want to or they feel that they need to.

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Speaker 1: I'm still just in awe over the way ads will

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Speaker 1: pop up based on what you've been looking at in

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Speaker 1: the past. They find you, they remember you, and they

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Speaker 1: hunt you down. Well, it's about you know. And the

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Speaker 1: thing is that those ad networks, you know, the way

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Speaker 1: the ad works ad networks work is that they're not

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Speaker 1: It's not as if the data is being sold to

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Speaker 1: the advertisers. The advertisers in these systems will not know

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Speaker 1: who you are unless you click on an ad right,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they're doing it based on anonymous matching

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Speaker 1: of tokens and things like that. It concerned, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's creepy to some people. A lot of people like it.

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Speaker 1: I mean the argument has always kind of been, which

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Speaker 1: do you you know, if you assume you're going to

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Speaker 1: have to pay somehow, and you're going to pay through

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Speaker 1: advertising in this case, because most people don't want to

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Speaker 1: pay with real money. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com. For more,