Speaker 1: Episode forty one, Paying off your mortgage, Should you do it?
Speaker 1: And how to get it done with Andy Hill. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to save money,
Speaker 1: embrace simplicity, rights, and liver with your life. Here your
Speaker 1: host Jen and Jill. Hello, frugal Friends. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: I'm Jill. We have another exciting episode of the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast for you today. How are you, Jill? Are
Speaker 1: you staying warm up in the north. I'm doing I'm
Speaker 1: doing well. I am staying warm. I'm bundled up. It's
Speaker 1: snowed here a little bit through the night, so not
Speaker 1: you know, not enough to do any real damage. But
Speaker 1: although I will say, if it's going to be cold,
Speaker 1: it might as well snow. I feel that I'm pleased
Speaker 1: with with the white on the ground. But I am
Speaker 1: looking forward to the sun. That will be a good day.
Speaker 1: Oh I am. I'm looking forward to that for you.
Speaker 1: I thought I was being cute, and so when we
Speaker 1: got on this call with Andy Hill, I was like, Andy,
Speaker 1: are you cold? Because he's in Detroit and He's like yes,
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, cool, cool, I'll just be
Speaker 1: here in Florida being a horrible person. I thought said
Speaker 1: it was just gonna be funny, but I realized that
Speaker 1: was really hurtful, So yep, so I did that. But
Speaker 1: he was still a champ and a friend, and he
Speaker 1: stuck around and did the interview and we talked about
Speaker 1: him paying off his mortgage and it was so good.
Speaker 1: We got Andy Hill. He hosts the Marriage, Kids and
Speaker 1: Money podcast and he has the blog, Marriage, Kids and
Speaker 1: Money dot com. He's just a He's a great guy.
Speaker 1: He has really great info to offer anybody who's married,
Speaker 1: has kids, wants kids. I'm even if you don't fall
Speaker 1: into any of those categories, he has stuff to offer.
Speaker 1: So we were super stoked to have him on the podcast,
Speaker 1: because when do we get to talk to people who
Speaker 1: paid off all their debt and then went on and
Speaker 1: paid off their mortgage to yeah, truly debt free. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but before that, let's get into some sponsors.
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Speaker 1: our Frugal Friends community on Facebook. Yes, all right, guys,
Speaker 1: let's get into it. We've got a really really great
Speaker 1: episode UM with Andy Hill for marriage, kids and money
Speaker 1: and so not only do we go into talking about
Speaker 1: paying off debt in your mortgage, but there's also some
Speaker 1: time management stuff sprinkled in at the end, because obviously
Speaker 1: to do the stuff, you might need to raise your
Speaker 1: income a little bit um and you'll need to know
Speaker 1: how to do that, you know, fit that in with
Speaker 1: your already busy schedules. So I'm excited. Without further ado,
Speaker 1: Andy Hill, he's here all right, Andy, it's so exciting
Speaker 1: to have you on this podcast. Thanks for being with us,
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. This is great. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: we've listened to your your podcast, which is also awesome,
Speaker 1: and we will direct anybody to go check out marriage,
Speaker 1: kids and money. Yeah, that's really great. Collect them all.
Speaker 1: You like them all. You have them all. You've got
Speaker 1: a marriage, you've got kids, you've got money. What else
Speaker 1: could you ask for? Working on all those? I'm almost there.
Speaker 1: Keep keep doing it. You're doing a good job. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you've got some excellent tips over there. I recently
Speaker 1: listened to your episode about ten Steps to Young FA
Speaker 1: Only Wealth episode and really good nuggets. I particularly enjoyed
Speaker 1: your tip about celebrating and memorializing big accomplishments or events
Speaker 1: or you know, when you get at those goals and
Speaker 1: doing that with your spouse and kids, which is I
Speaker 1: don't know. It just really struck me as just excellent
Speaker 1: training for children that can cultivate this excitement in them
Speaker 1: to handle money rightly. Just little tips like that. I've
Speaker 1: just Yeah, I really enjoyed that. So thanks for sharing
Speaker 1: listening to it. Yeah, we love having friends, right, it's
Speaker 1: the community that helps us to like get at these
Speaker 1: things that we may not have come up with on
Speaker 1: our own. And you talk about that too in your
Speaker 1: podcast of We're all on a mission here, Jill. I
Speaker 1: think we're all here work together to help people to win.
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the thing that drives me, that's
Speaker 1: the thing that makes me want to do this podcast
Speaker 1: every week and join you guys, because I know that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people listening that I could
Speaker 1: not only just use the board in the advice, but
Speaker 1: also just like a a frugal friend to go along
Speaker 1: this journey on. So nice. Well, we're excited to talk
Speaker 1: to you today about mortgages, which most people probably are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I hate my mortgage, I hate that I have that,
Speaker 1: um and how you paid that off? So I think
Speaker 1: most people would consider themselves debt free even if they
Speaker 1: still have a mortgage. So you guys are like real
Speaker 1: legit doing it. You're legitimately debt free. You don't have
Speaker 1: a mortgage payment. It is gone. It's gone. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious about we talked about sometimes this aha
Speaker 1: moment not just in finance, but in in other realms
Speaker 1: of life. I don't know did Oprah come up with
Speaker 1: that term. I'm not sure, but this moment of one
Speaker 1: of those billionaire gurus, when it just like hit you,
Speaker 1: this simple concept hit you. When was that for you
Speaker 1: of paying down debt? What was your aha momentum, I
Speaker 1: can get this gone? And and what was your realization
Speaker 1: around that. I was in a similar position that Jen
Speaker 1: is in right now. Actually she is waiting her first child.
Speaker 1: I don't know, have you announce Did I just announced that?
Speaker 1: To your own They? Okay? Um? But for me back
Speaker 1: in uh eleven, um, we found out that we were
Speaker 1: having our first baby, girl, and we were super excited
Speaker 1: about it, and something clicked in my brain where it
Speaker 1: was like, all right, you're not living for yourself anymore.
Speaker 1: You're not just living for today. You are literally bringing
Speaker 1: a human into this world and it is your responsibility
Speaker 1: to make sure that little human has an incredible life.
Speaker 1: And one thing that Nicole and I were talking about
Speaker 1: as we got together for our marriage, was hey, we
Speaker 1: got some debt. Um. I had about let's see, thirty
Speaker 1: thou dollars in student loans, and she had a car
Speaker 1: loan of about and we thought, hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: if we're going to try to give our kids the
Speaker 1: best life possible, let's try to get rid of this
Speaker 1: debt so it's not something that's even a part of
Speaker 1: our lives when they when they come into the world,
Speaker 1: and we can maybe limit the amount of fights that
Speaker 1: we have or that they would see, and also just
Speaker 1: be really you know, responsible and then and then have
Speaker 1: them see that action and get inspired by it. So
Speaker 1: we said, all right, let's do it. Let's buckle down
Speaker 1: and pay off this dollars. And since both of us
Speaker 1: were making some good money at the time, some dinks,
Speaker 1: you know, double income, no kids, making a little just
Speaker 1: a bit over six figures, we said, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: we got fifty thou dollars to pay off and we're
Speaker 1: making a little over six figures. Let's live on half
Speaker 1: and pay this thing off in a year. And we
Speaker 1: did that. We we met on we met every month
Speaker 1: for what we do to the budget party where we'd
Speaker 1: get together and talk about our talk about our our
Speaker 1: expenses and our plans and how we're moving along on
Speaker 1: that debt. And we got together every month and um,
Speaker 1: we were able to pay it off in about twelve
Speaker 1: months and before our before our daughter came into the world.
Speaker 1: So it's great. So this happened while you were thinking
Speaker 1: about having kids or was she pregnant when you guys
Speaker 1: were going for it right around that time? So we
Speaker 1: started talking about it and then we got kind of
Speaker 1: super serious about it when we when we found out
Speaker 1: that we were expecting. So yeah, we found out early.
Speaker 1: We found out what the gender was, and we named
Speaker 1: her super early, like kind of, you know, way too early,
Speaker 1: like the people were people were calling Nicole's stomach at
Speaker 1: like whatever, twelve weeks Zoe, you know, so funny. I think, oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I don't regret it at all. So the takeaway says,
Speaker 1: if you want to get on the same board and
Speaker 1: pay down debt us, get pregnant. Yes, pretty much. In actuality.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's usually when people do do kind of
Speaker 1: crazy amazing things. Right. It's like, hey, when when you're
Speaker 1: up against the wall or you have an epiphany in
Speaker 1: your life, like Hey I want to make I want
Speaker 1: to make a change, or hey I want to head
Speaker 1: in this type of direction that inspires me because I
Speaker 1: want to be inspiring for my kids, or you know,
Speaker 1: so it makes sense where there's someone else to consider,
Speaker 1: this is going to impact somebody else. We may just
Speaker 1: have the money to provide for our child if we
Speaker 1: keep up are this lifestyle I loved. I loved borrowing
Speaker 1: from my student loans to go to the bar, borrowing
Speaker 1: from my student loans to go on trips, borrowing from
Speaker 1: my home equity line of credit to go on trips.
Speaker 1: It's just was like, hey, it's fair, it's available, and
Speaker 1: maybe I'll make some more money eventually. But it all
Speaker 1: sort of changed when we came to the picture that eventually,
Speaker 1: you know, someday I'll be rich. It's that just gonna happen.
Speaker 1: It's gonna fall in your lab you would You're gonna
Speaker 1: have to save money if you want money, Yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: so Andy. Yeah. A lot of people say that once
Speaker 1: you've paid off your debt, you're like good to go
Speaker 1: your consumer debt. And that's kind of like where I'm
Speaker 1: at right now, Like we have we're debt free, and
Speaker 1: we did it because we wanted to like give me
Speaker 1: the option to stay home, you know, when this baby
Speaker 1: thing did happen, like it has. But now I struggle with,
Speaker 1: like should I prioritize the mortgage? Like I go back
Speaker 1: and forth and like, so how did you guys decide
Speaker 1: to like hit that after? For me, it was a
Speaker 1: conversation that my wife and I had together where she
Speaker 1: was interested in getting a larger house than my tiny
Speaker 1: bungalow that I bought when I was out of college.
Speaker 1: So she said, all right, where we've had this one
Speaker 1: child and we've got another one on the way, I
Speaker 1: would like to move out of your bachelor pad bungalow
Speaker 1: and find something that's like a little bit more of
Speaker 1: the adult house, you know. And I said, okay, I
Speaker 1: guess so I'm fine with this bachelor pet bungalow. I'd
Speaker 1: like it. I mean, it's just another little tiny human
Speaker 1: They don't take up that much space, but you know,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But she, um, she started researching some
Speaker 1: houses and you know, I begrudgingly looked at them, and
Speaker 1: then I want to go see the one that she
Speaker 1: really liked. And I said, all right, this actually is
Speaker 1: a really great house. Great schools really close to the
Speaker 1: highway for my new job would be like a five
Speaker 1: ten minute commute, so super short. And um, and it
Speaker 1: was great. The neighbors were awesome, just beautiful. And I said,
Speaker 1: all right, let's do it. But let's pay this mortgage
Speaker 1: off in five years, because I don't want to live
Speaker 1: with a very very big mortgage on my shoulders because
Speaker 1: I carry that stress. For me, debt equals some stress,
Speaker 1: and that's maybe just me, but I thought, if I
Speaker 1: have a two thousand dollar a month mortgage that I'm
Speaker 1: going to have to pay for a long time, that's
Speaker 1: gonna not make me feel all that great. So let's
Speaker 1: make a plan to get rid of that in five
Speaker 1: years so that I'll feel less stressed. Um, if I
Speaker 1: get let go from my job, UM, if I'm not
Speaker 1: the flavor of the week anymore because I'm making good sales,
Speaker 1: then I'll still feel good. UM. So she agreed, so
Speaker 1: we we kept on that same path of living on.
Speaker 1: She was working for a period of that time, and
Speaker 1: then when Calvin came into the world, our second boy,
Speaker 1: our second child, she went down to the full time
Speaker 1: stay at home mom deal. And um, and for all
Speaker 1: you gentlemen, out there. If you want some perspective on
Speaker 1: how hard it is to be a stay at home mom,
Speaker 1: just leave your job for one week, take a week off,
Speaker 1: let your wife go on a nice vacation, because then
Speaker 1: you will realize how difficult that job really. It doesn't
Speaker 1: it doesn't take long to realize how difficult. How about
Speaker 1: two days? Yeah, yeah, I get it on the weekend, right,
Speaker 1: but it's it's weekend kids. It's you're sleeping in and
Speaker 1: you're making pancakes and you're watching cartoons. Were like, And
Speaker 1: then yeah, weekend dad, Like my wife likes to joke
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, it's completely different Monday morning when Dad's
Speaker 1: not home. So she decided, we decided to do that
Speaker 1: situation where she'd stayed at home. Um, that that knocked
Speaker 1: on our income quite a bit, but we kept up
Speaker 1: that same pace of living and we were able to
Speaker 1: pay the house off in just under four years actually,
Speaker 1: So we kept at it. We worked hard, and now
Speaker 1: we are mortgage free. So to your question, to your
Speaker 1: point to where you're hinting at, it's all personal. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a mathematic equation that said what
Speaker 1: we did was smart or you know, h and that
Speaker 1: that seventeen time from when we paid that that mortgage
Speaker 1: off our mortgages three and what did the stock market do?
Speaker 1: From bonkers? Right? Quite a bit more if you don't know, Yes,
Speaker 1: you're you're listening. It went high, uh, much higher than
Speaker 1: the three percent that we paid off. Would I do
Speaker 1: things differently? No, I don't have a mortgage now and
Speaker 1: I feel so less stressed. And what I would have
Speaker 1: done with all that skyrocketing money in the market. The
Speaker 1: first thing I would have done with all that money
Speaker 1: is pay off my mortgage. So mm hmm. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what we did. And that's what we talk about here.
Speaker 1: Is what works for you? Yes, right, like you, it
Speaker 1: needs to work for you. Just like exercise. You're not
Speaker 1: going to get anywhere if you hate running, but that's
Speaker 1: all that you do. Don't run, Find some other way
Speaker 1: to exercise, just like financial planning, find what works for
Speaker 1: you for you. It was eliminating the stress of that mortgage.
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if you can share a bit more
Speaker 1: about your plan of attack while paying down this mortgage,
Speaker 1: Like did you put other things on hold? Were you
Speaker 1: in investing? Still? You know, if you don't mind sharing
Speaker 1: what what was your income. How were you able to
Speaker 1: do that in five years? Did it go according to plan? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that. Yeah. So, um, we were
Speaker 1: probably in between the I'm not going to show the
Speaker 1: exact number because I'm still working right now, but between
Speaker 1: like a hundred and two hundred the whole time, so
Speaker 1: between our household income. So essentially, the mortgage was a
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety five thousand dollars when we got it
Speaker 1: in we put down on the house. It was a
Speaker 1: down payment, which is a lot, but we had saved
Speaker 1: up a time because we're living on half after we
Speaker 1: had paid off our um, after we had paid off
Speaker 1: our consumer debts, we developed a very large down payment
Speaker 1: in order to pay that down. So we had a
Speaker 1: essentially two mortgage and uh during that time frame, we
Speaker 1: lived on half of our income, again through money at
Speaker 1: it each month. And in the beginning it doesn't about
Speaker 1: that much of the principle, but as you continue to
Speaker 1: go down, it goes down and goes down and goes down. Um.
Speaker 1: That the difficult part was when we got to that
Speaker 1: point in our second year of living in the home,
Speaker 1: when Nicole stopped working. She was she was working part
Speaker 1: time at that point. But then she went to you know, uh,
Speaker 1: no time, and that was a cut in our in
Speaker 1: our incomes. We had to get a little bit crafty.
Speaker 1: So we did some things. We said no a little
Speaker 1: bit more to going out because you know, when you
Speaker 1: got two little kids, you can't really go out to
Speaker 1: dinners and drinks as much anyway, so we said no
Speaker 1: a little bit more. We went on less vacations. Um
Speaker 1: so those are some of the unpleasant things, but some
Speaker 1: of the easier things that we did. Uh. We re
Speaker 1: examined how we did our grocery shopping. We used to
Speaker 1: go to Kroger. I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 1: that where you are, but it's essentially, you know, a
Speaker 1: large grocery store chain. And we decided to go to
Speaker 1: Aldi and make a change there on Aldi. Between making
Speaker 1: a list going there weekly and going to Aldi, we
Speaker 1: went from nine dollars in our grocery shopping per month
Speaker 1: to six hundred dollars. So that's thirty six hundred dollars
Speaker 1: per year in savings just from groceries. We looked at
Speaker 1: some high deductible plans for our insurance instead of the
Speaker 1: plans that we were on because we had built up
Speaker 1: a big emergency fund just by doing some of those things.
Speaker 1: We would did a high deductible insurance plan at my
Speaker 1: office for our health care UM that saved us a boatload.
Speaker 1: That saved us probably a year, and then UM some
Speaker 1: of our home insurance. It essentially just looking at your
Speaker 1: insurance and saying, hey, the more risk that you're gonna
Speaker 1: take because you have your own emergency fund, you pay
Speaker 1: the insurance companies a little bit less. So we looked
Speaker 1: looked at little things like that and chipped away at it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, it wasn't It wasn't. Um. We
Speaker 1: weren't living lavishly. We're definitely tight, but hey, we had
Speaker 1: two little kids, and we didn't mind doing Friday night
Speaker 1: movie night at the house with the little kids where
Speaker 1: we go to the library and get a free movie,
Speaker 1: hang out, eat popcorn on the couch instead of you know,
Speaker 1: going out every weekend and things like that. These these
Speaker 1: little things are changes. It's all about priorities, right, If
Speaker 1: you make your budget and you look about what you
Speaker 1: what you think is most important in your life, and
Speaker 1: for us it was family. We put that first and
Speaker 1: then our our financial goals. Crushing this mortgage so so
Speaker 1: that we could have the house of our dreams and
Speaker 1: Andy could be a little less stressed, you know, working
Speaker 1: working in a job. So yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Keeping
Speaker 1: that why in sight helps? Yes, Yes, are why are?
Speaker 1: Why was to be able to have this great house
Speaker 1: and also to allow our family to for our two
Speaker 1: kids to have a mother that's at home with them
Speaker 1: and raising raising them. And there's nothing wrong with you know,
Speaker 1: ladies who want to work while they have kids. It's
Speaker 1: just again, it's all personal. This is something that Nicole
Speaker 1: and I were very passionate about and it's a priority
Speaker 1: that we put forth for us. Yeah. So how long
Speaker 1: between paying off your consumer debt and student loans and
Speaker 1: um getting your house? Was that? Like? So like, how
Speaker 1: long did it take to amass that large down payment?
Speaker 1: So we paid off the student loans and the consumer
Speaker 1: and the car loan in the fall of eleven and
Speaker 1: then we bought this home in the fall of thirteen,
Speaker 1: So in two years we developed that amount of money.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you did. You took your foot off
Speaker 1: the gas a little bit, but you were still like
Speaker 1: on it. Yeah, that's encouraging. That's what we We definitely
Speaker 1: took our foot off the gas when we after we
Speaker 1: paid off our suit loans because we needed a break,
Speaker 1: but we still built up those habits that like allowed
Speaker 1: us to stay save um. So yeah, but you don't
Speaker 1: have to have your foot on the gas like full
Speaker 1: throttle to save that big of a down payment. That's
Speaker 1: so encouraging. Absolutely, And you know there's some rule bending.
Speaker 1: You know, I was really into Dave Ramsey in the beginning,
Speaker 1: and I really loved a lot of his advice. But
Speaker 1: there's some rule bending that kind of helped us to
Speaker 1: still have a little bit of fun and save some money.
Speaker 1: So we do a little bit of credit card rewards
Speaker 1: doesn't so we love that. Went to um We went
Speaker 1: to Cabo San Lucas last year. Is a trip and
Speaker 1: we got it for bucks because of rewards. I love
Speaker 1: me some travel rewards. It's a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of work. You've got to be careful with it. For
Speaker 1: anybody who carries a balance on their credit card, no,
Speaker 1: no zone. This is sort of advanced stuff. But oh
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah. We always say get out of
Speaker 1: your consumer debt, and then yes you can. Credit cards
Speaker 1: are a great asset, but you have to have those habits,
Speaker 1: those good habits built up, you can't do it, and
Speaker 1: until you do, Dave Ramsey is great for beginners. And
Speaker 1: then once you get your feet wet and you get
Speaker 1: in a rhythm and you know what works for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: bend those rules. Take hold of that for them, because like,
Speaker 1: not one person is in charge of the rules. There's
Speaker 1: a bunch of people making rules. And I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1: I read his book in and I'm like, well, these
Speaker 1: are the rules, so I'm gonna follow all of these rules.
Speaker 1: And Nicole, you gotta you gotta cut up your credit card.
Speaker 1: And she's like, what what are we talking about. I
Speaker 1: don't like my credit card, sweetheart. The book you can't
Speaker 1: think about this. The book says it, so we have
Speaker 1: to do it to think about it. And I joke around.
Speaker 1: I'm a Financial Peace University coordinator at my church. I
Speaker 1: love the program. It helps millions of people make a
Speaker 1: big difference in their life. But I think you said
Speaker 1: it right that once you get to a point of okay,
Speaker 1: I got this, you can you can kind of make
Speaker 1: your own rules. Yes, we we love the course as well.
Speaker 1: Once so yeah, we love it. It's really great when
Speaker 1: you don't have the capacity to think too much. About
Speaker 1: personal finance. But when you do, you can start thinking
Speaker 1: for yourself. When you're enough to start your own podcast,
Speaker 1: I think that you can jump ahead when you reached
Speaker 1: have to start a podcast first, that's right, that's it
Speaker 1: advanced level. Yes, all right, So Andy, what do you
Speaker 1: recommend for people who want to pay off their mortgage quickly?
Speaker 1: Gives to your best tips quickly? Um, I would say, yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the one of the top things I'd be
Speaker 1: ignoring it if it wasn't true, is you've got to
Speaker 1: grow your income. Um. You know, if if it's something
Speaker 1: that you want to do, because it's a mass amount.
Speaker 1: You know, some people are paying that amount in student
Speaker 1: loans right now. So in order to collabor those student loans,
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully for the two dollars they might have
Speaker 1: in student loans, they've got a doctor job or a
Speaker 1: veterinarian something associated with Yeah, I hope it's not like
Speaker 1: liberal arts to not um, but it happens. So grow
Speaker 1: your income. Figure out a way to grow your income.
Speaker 1: So um. First things first, if you have been working
Speaker 1: at your job for a while and you are exceeding
Speaker 1: expectations and you're you're killing it, and you haven't gotten
Speaker 1: a raise in a while, to go on glass door
Speaker 1: and find out what you should be making and talk
Speaker 1: to your supervisor about you want to raise this is
Speaker 1: this is the time, like you know, have some conversations.
Speaker 1: They are ready for this. Their HR department is ready
Speaker 1: for this. They are ready for this. Go in there
Speaker 1: and ask those ask those questions. Make sure and if
Speaker 1: you don't know what your goals are, find out what
Speaker 1: your goals are, because you have to be tracking to
Speaker 1: something in order to ask for that money. Say hey,
Speaker 1: you told me to do this, I've done it, and
Speaker 1: um I would like X y Z for a raise,
Speaker 1: and have that compared against what you would find in
Speaker 1: glass door based on your industry and the area that
Speaker 1: you work. And if you're in New York versus Detroit.
Speaker 1: I live in Detroit, Obviously the salary is a little
Speaker 1: bit different from New York City or something like that.
Speaker 1: But grow your income, you know, increase your income if
Speaker 1: you if if works not the place to grow it.
Speaker 1: Let's say you're you know, a teacher or something like that,
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, they have a system and I
Speaker 1: get two percent every two years or whatever. Find a
Speaker 1: side hustle something that you are passionate about and figure
Speaker 1: out a way to make money from it. Make make
Speaker 1: two lists. Make a list of your marketable skills from uh,
Speaker 1: your your life, so you you know you're let's say
Speaker 1: you're a teacher, you're really good at presenting, and you're
Speaker 1: good at writing, um. And then on the other list,
Speaker 1: make a list of things you're passionate about, and then
Speaker 1: see what you can do to mash those things together
Speaker 1: and say, all right, I'm good at this skill and
Speaker 1: I like this thing. I'm gonna do this thing anyway
Speaker 1: because I like whatever, let's say artwork or photography, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put it together with my marketable skill and
Speaker 1: i'm gonna make I'm gonna make thirty dollars a year.
Speaker 1: On the side, you know, it's something that I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: At every dollar of that thirty dollars, I'm gonna throw
Speaker 1: out the mortgage because then in five years my mortgage
Speaker 1: is gone. Isn't that cool? So many people live at
Speaker 1: their mortgage for the rest of their lives, and that's okay,
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with that, especially when when you look
Speaker 1: at the math of like a three percent interest rate.
Speaker 1: But if you're interested in paying off the mortgage. Hence
Speaker 1: you're probably listening to the show based on the title
Speaker 1: those are those are two two ways to do it.
Speaker 1: Growing your income is the thing and then obviously spending less.
Speaker 1: So spending less can you know be a want was sometimes?
Speaker 1: But there are little things in your budget that you
Speaker 1: can look at and say, all right, well, I can
Speaker 1: eliminate some of these things that don't actually bring me joy,
Speaker 1: that don't you know, make a big difference in my life.
Speaker 1: Or hey, I've had that gym membership for a long time.
Speaker 1: Do I even go to the gym? Is it easier
Speaker 1: for me just to run outside? Or am I fooling
Speaker 1: myself that I'm actually going to show up, Like, get
Speaker 1: rid of the gym membership, get one of the things
Speaker 1: that are low hanging fruit where you you aren't using
Speaker 1: them anyway, and then look at some of those bigger things,
Speaker 1: the main big things that are in your budget. Are
Speaker 1: you paying a big car loan or you are you
Speaker 1: have too much car in your life? You know, some
Speaker 1: of those big things transportation, food, housing, You know, where
Speaker 1: are you living right now? And is that eating up
Speaker 1: so much of your you know, your money. So looking
Speaker 1: at the big things first and then go down to
Speaker 1: the small thing so make more money and spend less.
Speaker 1: That It's there's no magic to it, really, it's like
Speaker 1: you gotta make more or spend less. Those are just
Speaker 1: some you know, individual ways to to take a look
Speaker 1: at it. But that's really how it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: when we started this journey, we were living on a
Speaker 1: hundred percent of of of our income because we whatever
Speaker 1: we came in, we would we would spend it. We
Speaker 1: weren't saving anything for retirement. And then we just figure
Speaker 1: it out a way to to live on fifty and
Speaker 1: it hurt in the beginning, and maybe you can ladder it,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe hey, for the first month, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go I just interviewed this guy, or actually he called
Speaker 1: into the show and said, hey, we are living on
Speaker 1: two incomes right now, and we want to go down
Speaker 1: to one income so that my wife can stay at
Speaker 1: home with the kids. How the heck do we do that?
Speaker 1: And we worked on it, and we said, what if
Speaker 1: you just ladder it? So you've got twelve months. Over
Speaker 1: those twelve months, go from you know, needing a hundred
Speaker 1: percent of her income down to zero and then progressively
Speaker 1: get used to it over that time, so that it's
Speaker 1: not such a ripped band aid. Yeah, and then you
Speaker 1: have that relationship absolutely. And we talked about this too
Speaker 1: that sometimes people will approach this as an either or
Speaker 1: like where do you land? Like is it better to
Speaker 1: focus on spending spending less or growing your income? But man,
Speaker 1: is it a powerhouse if you can combine the two
Speaker 1: and say let's do both. It may not be sustainable
Speaker 1: for long term, but if you've got a specific goal
Speaker 1: you want to accomplish, like paying off a mortgage is
Speaker 1: probably gonna be the most massive thing you ever try
Speaker 1: to pay off in your lifetime. Yeah, growing income and
Speaker 1: spending less my goodness. And then if yeah, if you
Speaker 1: can stick to a budget, like don't get excited about
Speaker 1: all that money and then spend it elsewhere, stick to
Speaker 1: your goal. But that's it's fantastic advice. And that's a
Speaker 1: big thing too. You know, when you're married, it's not
Speaker 1: just your idea, it's the collective of your ideas too. So, um,
Speaker 1: I don't mind spending a lot less, but my wife does. Right,
Speaker 1: So there was there was a point where I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, now, what can we do to max out
Speaker 1: r H S A and max out are four one
Speaker 1: K and our I like, what yeah you heard? Was like, dude,
Speaker 1: we paid off the mortgage, Like, let's have some fun.
Speaker 1: And that was sort of a moment for me where
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know what, You're right, let's
Speaker 1: let's do that. And if I want to keep going
Speaker 1: towards some other goals, like let's touch the other bucket
Speaker 1: of making more money. Right, So what can I do
Speaker 1: on a side hustle to make a little bit more
Speaker 1: money instead of just continuing to pull away with the
Speaker 1: spending less thing? Because I want to be married for
Speaker 1: a long time. I love my wife and this is effort.
Speaker 1: So yeah, any it's not about goal hopping or like
Speaker 1: just seeing which things that I can accomplish next. It's
Speaker 1: really about the journey and then getting those goals along
Speaker 1: the way. Any time management tidbits that you found in
Speaker 1: this as you are spending less and earning more income,
Speaker 1: Like to me, that sounds like, holy smokes, where am
Speaker 1: I going to find the time you have? Do you
Speaker 1: have any suggestions for people who are thinking like what
Speaker 1: could I add on top of my full time job? Well,
Speaker 1: first things first, if you are married, this is a
Speaker 1: conversation you need to have with your spouse before you
Speaker 1: do anything that draws more time away from your family.
Speaker 1: And that's a learning lesson for me. I've never done
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial stuff before until a couple of years ago. I've
Speaker 1: always been the career guy, and I still am. I'm
Speaker 1: doing both. Um. But before I started the doing some
Speaker 1: side hustle stuff, I talked with my wife and just said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get up early when you like sleeping
Speaker 1: in and the kids luckily sleep into. Um, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: try to crack out a couple hours of work, um
Speaker 1: on my side hustle stuff before I go to work
Speaker 1: every morning, and it shouldn't really affect our family life. UM.
Speaker 1: So that's the kind of time I carved out, just
Speaker 1: based on based on my family sleeping in a little bit.
Speaker 1: So I'll get up, you know, I get up at
Speaker 1: like six and get a couple of hours of work
Speaker 1: in and then I can help to get the kids
Speaker 1: ready for school, and then I'm at the office and um,
Speaker 1: I'm cranking out my day until six. And then UM,
Speaker 1: I usually just work maybe like a couple of hours
Speaker 1: or a couple of evenings per week, So usually Wednesdays
Speaker 1: and Thursdays but a big part of it is, you know,
Speaker 1: setting up those boundaries between work and family. So one
Speaker 1: practice that I learned from this this book that I
Speaker 1: read by Kurt Steinhorst, is what he calls minding the gap.
Speaker 1: So when I get home from work from my full
Speaker 1: time job, I come in, I take first to take
Speaker 1: a deep breath in the garage because I'm because I'm
Speaker 1: about to jump over that boundary of going from work
Speaker 1: guy to family guy. So I walk in and then
Speaker 1: the first thing I do, obviously is greet my family,
Speaker 1: but I say, hey, I need five minutes too, you know,
Speaker 1: change out of my work clothes, splash some water on
Speaker 1: my face. I'm gonna turn off my phone and put
Speaker 1: it away so that I'm not checking my email, not
Speaker 1: checking you know, text messages, social media. I want to
Speaker 1: focus my time on my family for the next three
Speaker 1: or four hours. And that's just sort of a practice
Speaker 1: that I do, and I've I've tried to keep really
Speaker 1: good at it. I do it of the time, depending
Speaker 1: on how crazy it is. But it's little practices like
Speaker 1: that that helped carve out the separation of of the
Speaker 1: important parts of your day. And yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: like to talk about work like work like work life balance,
Speaker 1: and some people say it's a it's a myth. I
Speaker 1: think we can construct the lives that we want, um,
Speaker 1: based on our needs and our values. Um, it's uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's all up to us, and there's there's
Speaker 1: special ways to do it. A book that I just
Speaker 1: read called it was called Essential is m. I would
Speaker 1: highly highly recommend it if you something you read it.
Speaker 1: I just read it maybe a month ago. It's it's
Speaker 1: put a new perspective on my life. The one thing
Speaker 1: that he said that really resonated with me. He goes,
Speaker 1: there's so many opportunities for you to do things throughout
Speaker 1: the day, whether they're you know, opportunities that work, opportunities
Speaker 1: with friends and family, opportunities with a side hustle or
Speaker 1: a hobby. But if it's not a hell yes, that
Speaker 1: it needs to be a no. And I love that
Speaker 1: it's like unless, because there's so many things coming at us.
Speaker 1: So if it's not a hell yes, it's got to
Speaker 1: be an know. So you've got to align your priorities first.
Speaker 1: Does it align with my priorities? Does it align with
Speaker 1: my my goals, my family goals, my financial goals, and
Speaker 1: if it doesn't, then it's enough. Which I think just
Speaker 1: budgeting in general can help correlate to time budgeting. That's
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here too, giving every minute a
Speaker 1: place to go and making the most of it too. Right,
Speaker 1: So we probably all have an extra two hours in
Speaker 1: our day that if we're not budgeting it well, it
Speaker 1: gets wasted and we're not making the most of where
Speaker 1: we are in that moment. So to say that you
Speaker 1: are intentionally splashing water on your face, changing your clothes,
Speaker 1: now I've got three hours with family, to know that
Speaker 1: that's the time that you have with them, then it
Speaker 1: sounds like it's more intentional time, more focused, more interactive
Speaker 1: memory making, versus if you didn't have that plan in place,
Speaker 1: three hours could just go and it's like I didn't
Speaker 1: connect with my kids, I didn't connect with my wife
Speaker 1: or my husband. And so some of this, even incorporating
Speaker 1: new things into your schedule could almost help to create
Speaker 1: greater intentionality with the time that you do have. When
Speaker 1: you name every minute and name every dollar, like these
Speaker 1: skills can carry over into other aspects of life. That's
Speaker 1: a great point. I love that. That's awesome. I love
Speaker 1: I love that because we're the three of us are
Speaker 1: all into budgeting, right, so we named we name the dollars.
Speaker 1: But I love that naming the time. That's that's a
Speaker 1: really good insight. I got to it because of you, Andy.
Speaker 1: So this is you know, we need friends. It's a
Speaker 1: new revelation. We are crugal friends together. You know what
Speaker 1: else is really amazing? Um, I think I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about, Chill. Is it the bill of the week.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 1: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 1: is William. Maybe you paid off your mortgage, Maybe your
Speaker 1: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 1: that bill anymore. That's Bill Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This
Speaker 1: is the bill of the week. Andy. We invite our
Speaker 1: listeners to share their favorite bills with us, and since
Speaker 1: you are a guest on the show today, we would
Speaker 1: love it if you would share your favorite bill uppercase
Speaker 1: or lower case on the show today. Do you have
Speaker 1: one for us? Oh? Yeah, So I I really like reading,
Speaker 1: and then I had kids, and so they don't they
Speaker 1: don't let me do that anymore. So my favorite, my
Speaker 1: favorite bill is Audible. I love listening to books on
Speaker 1: the road. I love listening to him while I'm running.
Speaker 1: I love listening to him on my commute to work.
Speaker 1: So it is a very worthwhile investment. It's you know
Speaker 1: Spotify type price, Netflix type price that they're really smart
Speaker 1: with that. It's like, it's like it shouldn't hurt that much.
Speaker 1: But then when you're like a mass, like seventeen of them,
Speaker 1: you're like, I like Audible. It helps me to um
Speaker 1: catch great books. You know. I chat with a lot
Speaker 1: of folks like you guys and get inspired by what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. Her book recommendations, and I love all
Speaker 1: the books that come out of this community that say, hey,
Speaker 1: this is something that's really gonna inspire you. Check this out.
Speaker 1: So it's something that I'm like, Yeah, was Essentialism your
Speaker 1: last Audible? Yes, like literally finished it maybe three weeks ago.
Speaker 1: I listened to it on audiobook too. I just I
Speaker 1: don't even have kids yet, and I can't read. Well.
Speaker 1: It's tough, you know what I mean. And when when
Speaker 1: you do find that time to read, it is so pleasant,
Speaker 1: just like whatever on a beautiful day, or just sitting
Speaker 1: there having a coffee or tea, whatever you like and
Speaker 1: just you know, relaxing. But sometimes that's yeah, and someone
Speaker 1: else's thoughts as long as they're positive influence. Yes, So
Speaker 1: if you have a bill like that that you want
Speaker 1: to share with us, please visit Frugal Friends podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: slash bill, leave us a bill. Our bill tank is
Speaker 1: empty right now, and we're looking for good bills. You know,
Speaker 1: we're always in the market for good bills. You don't
Speaker 1: want to hear it when I share my bills. Has
Speaker 1: Bill Curtis been mentioned? Yes? From Yes, I knows my bill.
Speaker 1: Bill Curtis is my bill still my favorite bill still
Speaker 1: of all the bills, Bill Curtis. I think I think
Speaker 1: you need to have him on the show, so he
Speaker 1: could be your your voice over for that segment type good.
Speaker 1: That would be good. It would be my dream, it
Speaker 1: would be my dream. Well, let's get into our Lightning Round.
Speaker 1: It's not a real thing, but we saying that. I
Speaker 1: like it. We're still going to keep calling it. It's
Speaker 1: just what it really is, is like the second half
Speaker 1: of the episode, like, but we're calling it lightning Round.
Speaker 1: It's fun. Yeah, So I try to call it final thoughts,
Speaker 1: But Jill never says that. She always says lightning round,
Speaker 1: and I respect that it feels right and have a
Speaker 1: new name each time. It could just be something different.
Speaker 1: We just came off of the building, we're wrapping up.
Speaker 1: It feels like here we go. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Get back into it, lightning. Yeah. Anyhow, Andy, So if
Speaker 1: you could go back, we know you can't, so this
Speaker 1: is all fictitious. If you could go back and change
Speaker 1: anything and how you paid down debt, the way that
Speaker 1: you did it, what you prioritized, would you change any
Speaker 1: of that. I would spend more time being open with
Speaker 1: my communication with my wife. Sometimes I would have thoughts
Speaker 1: of how I would like to do things in my
Speaker 1: own rain and I would not share them very well
Speaker 1: with her, And she would have her own thoughts of
Speaker 1: what she'd like to do with the money as well
Speaker 1: in her brain, and she wouldn't share them with me.
Speaker 1: We needed to spend more time talking with each other.
Speaker 1: And something that we started doing just last year was
Speaker 1: marriage counseling, which has been awesome. In the beginning, I
Speaker 1: was thinking, oh, man, it's like marriage counseling is like
Speaker 1: when you're like failing in your marriage. Right. Nope, it's
Speaker 1: like a coach man. It's like, you know, if you
Speaker 1: want to exercise and get really fit, then you get
Speaker 1: with a fitness trainer. It's the same thing with our
Speaker 1: marriage counselor. She helps us to communicate better when we've
Speaker 1: got a six and four year old hanging on our legs.
Speaker 1: This is designated time for us to spend talking with
Speaker 1: each other and grow our marriage. I'm super excited about it.
Speaker 1: I look forward to going every month. Though. I like
Speaker 1: that plug because I am actually a therapist as well.
Speaker 1: So thanks for that plug. There doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: the stigma attached to it. Come see us will help
Speaker 1: give you another perspective. Mental health should be just as
Speaker 1: important as physical health. I agree. I love that. Uh
Speaker 1: write that on a bumper stick. I hate bumper cigars,
Speaker 1: you know I still love them. And then Andy, what
Speaker 1: do you have going on at marriage, kids and money?
Speaker 1: I love the podcast which I openly share, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: what can we expect going on over there in the future. Well,
Speaker 1: I every week on Monday, I have an episode and
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the month I answer listener questions
Speaker 1: and it's all about trying to help people build their
Speaker 1: young family wealth, so making more money, figuring out ways
Speaker 1: to grow your wealth and also to create a legacy
Speaker 1: for your kids for the future. That's the stuff that
Speaker 1: really excites me having those conversations. So I invite really
Speaker 1: smart experts to come on the show on the other
Speaker 1: three Mondays of the month so I can learn from them,
Speaker 1: share that knowledge with you, and then we we can
Speaker 1: all strengthen our family tree together. So the show happens
Speaker 1: every Monday. I also write a blog, and it's a
Speaker 1: great way for me to share some knowledge that I've
Speaker 1: learned and connect with you. So check it out Marriage
Speaker 1: Kids of Money dot com. Yeah, we really just scratched
Speaker 1: the surface on your tips for paying off debt and
Speaker 1: paying off your mortgage. There's so much more on your website, Marriage,
Speaker 1: Kids and Money dot com. It's really great. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you just had Chris Hogan on your podcast, Like yeah, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: he's He is a super exciting guy. If you if
Speaker 1: you listen to the episode and you think there's something
Speaker 1: wrong with the audio, there's nothing wrong with the audio.
Speaker 1: That man has a booming voice. It's just that dat
Speaker 1: millionaires and any shared what the actual facts are about
Speaker 1: millionaires and some some shocking stuff. It's very cool. That's exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you related back to how like married couples and couples
Speaker 1: with kids can can interpret that. So I love it,
Speaker 1: love what you're doing over there. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for doing it. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Andy, good to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely any time. I look forward to the next invitation. Yes,
Speaker 1: it'll be there. Nice man, that was really good. What
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Jen? I love that Andy
Speaker 1: is so personable, so I'm really glad that he was
Speaker 1: able to come on our little podcast and dropped so
Speaker 1: much wisdom on on everybody listening. I did feel like
Speaker 1: that's what happened. It got dropped, and then I was
Speaker 1: sitting here like trying to catch it all. You know,
Speaker 1: you did think I caught most of it. It's why
Speaker 1: I'm wearing this like big, big shirt. And then I
Speaker 1: caught some of it in like the bottom of my
Speaker 1: shirt and the rest. You were just typing in the
Speaker 1: outline while he was talking. Did you hear that? I saw,
Speaker 1: I'm and I have to do right now. I wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure that our show notes had some of
Speaker 1: these wisdom tidbits that I'm catching in my shirt. The
Speaker 1: weird visual, weird visual, but yeah, you'll catch it in
Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're like, oh, that was good,
Speaker 1: I probably wrote it down for you. You're welcome. I'm
Speaker 1: like that overachiever sitting next to you in the classroom
Speaker 1: and you're like, yo, can I get your notes afterwards?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, if you pay me five bucks,
Speaker 1: little entrepreneur, you learned a little something about there. Anyhow,
Speaker 1: let's talk about our book club that's still happening. It's February.
Speaker 1: Welcome to February. We are reading Meet the Frugal Woods
Speaker 1: by Elizabeth Willard Thames. So that you pronounce it, yeah, close,
Speaker 1: I think close? Okay, So join us, because who doesn't
Speaker 1: like Meet the Frugal Woods. Yes, if you listen to
Speaker 1: our very first episode, you heard me refer to Mrs
Speaker 1: Frugal Woods Smith Willard Thames as the Queen of frugality.
Speaker 1: She is our queen, and she didn't call herself that,
Speaker 1: and nobody else call her calls her that, just me.
Speaker 1: So we are reading. Yeah, we're reading her book. And
Speaker 1: if you want a free copy, you can go in
Speaker 1: the running by leaving us a review on iTunes or Stitcher,
Speaker 1: screenshotting the review before you hit submit. And then sending
Speaker 1: that screenshot to Frugal Friends podcast at gmail dot com
Speaker 1: after you hit submit, and we will select a winner
Speaker 1: for every five reviews, no limit, and we will announce
Speaker 1: it at the end of the month. See how many
Speaker 1: books we can give away and if you want to
Speaker 1: know an example of a helpful review. If you're sitting
Speaker 1: there like, yeah, I want to do this thing, but
Speaker 1: I need I need, I need some inspiration, I need
Speaker 1: an example, We've got it for you. So this one
Speaker 1: is from sit Nick. Very elusive name, not sure what
Speaker 1: it means, but love the review. They say nice and refreshing.
Speaker 1: I listened to a lot of money podcasts, and a
Speaker 1: lot of them are hosted either by dudes or by
Speaker 1: women who have it all together. This podcast is more
Speaker 1: relatable to me. I'm in my late twenties just trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to be more frugal and pay
Speaker 1: off debt. The girls are fun to listen to and
Speaker 1: have great chemistry boom, sit thank you chemistry that it
Speaker 1: is very clear that we don't have it all together.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you picked up on that. If there's
Speaker 1: any message we want you guys to get, it's that
Speaker 1: we're not perfect, and we're also not dudes. I was
Speaker 1: personally trying to hide it, but if I can't, then
Speaker 1: far far be it from me to pretend. Guys, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. Definitely check out Andy's podcast,
Speaker 1: check out our show notes for any insight to what
Speaker 1: we were saying in today's episode, and then chat with
Speaker 1: us in the Frugal Friends community on Facebook at Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast dot com, slash group, and of course, as always,
Speaker 1: we're going to see you next week with another Frugal Friday,
Speaker 1: fun fantastic episode. See you then we'll be here. Join
Speaker 1: us by Frugal Friends is produced, edited and mixed by
Speaker 1: Eric Syria. Mm hmmm, m m m m m m
Speaker 1: m m m m mmmm, getting some of that frugal goodness.
Speaker 1: It really is true that being a part of this
Speaker 1: community has and I don't know if inspired the right word.
Speaker 1: That sounds too dramatic, but it's helped me to do
Speaker 1: things that I probably would not have done if I
Speaker 1: weren't talking and listening about it and engaging with people
Speaker 1: who are doing like I thought that I was one
Speaker 1: of those people who was self motivated, and I think
Speaker 1: it's still true to some degree, but like, no, I
Speaker 1: can do this on my own. I don't need a community,
Speaker 1: but I am realizing that I'm accomplishing more than I
Speaker 1: would have if I would just be doing this on
Speaker 1: my own. I think friends and community always help, even
Speaker 1: for self motivated self starters. That, yeah, is if you've
Speaker 1: got someone in your corner, you go a little further. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was cool. In one of Andy's podcasts, he talked
Speaker 1: about that too, of the things that he's accomplished since
Speaker 1: starting his podcast, not just since starting his frugal debt
Speaker 1: Free journey, but literally since starting his podcast, and what
Speaker 1: that's done to him. I think that'd be an interesting
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not in it too deep yet, but
Speaker 1: to think through, gosh, what have I done because of
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm normally a frugal person that was frugal
Speaker 1: before we were friends, but I've definitely done things I
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have done if it weren't for this. I
Speaker 1: know it's because of our book club book. This month
Speaker 1: that I stopped wearing makeup, and every time we record
Speaker 1: an interview, I am reminded of to question the choice
Speaker 1: I've made because you're seeing yourself in the video. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think you look fantastic. I love the choice
Speaker 1: that you've made. It was a frugal decision thanks to
Speaker 1: Meet the Frugal Woods, and so if you so. If
Speaker 1: our listeners want to make the same frugal decision and
Speaker 1: constantly question it, go for it. Read the book. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I didn't look so young without I makeup, maybe
Speaker 1: I would consider it. It's just that it's already an
Speaker 1: uphill battle with people thinking that I'm so young, and
Speaker 1: it does something professionally, I think, yeah, I wouldn't want
Speaker 1: to be counted. Look yeah, I mean I'm not twenty one,
Speaker 1: but I like I look fourteen without I makeup on.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean not fourteen, like somewhere between sixteen
Speaker 1: and twenty. For sure. It looks like you could sit
Speaker 1: at a bar. Thank you. An. That's how I measure success,
Speaker 1: because whether or not I look like I can sit
Speaker 1: at a bar,