1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to steph Mo. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: I've never told you production of I Heart Radio. Today 3 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: we're talking about love, Yeah, like a very simple topic, 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: not complex at all, and both of us have definitely 5 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: had the song what is Love stuck in her head 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: for weeks the entire time. I also, there's so many 7 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: songs about love. I want to know what love is. 8 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: It's been a frequent uh playing in my mind as well. See, 9 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start singing things. If you keep bringing titles 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: up like that, Well that's my goal. That's my whole thing. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: The whole montage of me just singing one line because 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: I can't remember the entire song. Yeah, perfect, we should 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: put that in here. Today, we're specifically talking about romantic 14 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: and relationship love and particularly perhaps the relationship between love 15 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: and sex and what that looks like. Um, because yeah, 16 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: there there is a whole wide world of love, and 17 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: I think we could do a huge mini series on 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: love and sex. Um. So if we skip over any 19 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: of your favorite aspects of these things, if you want 20 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: us to discuss something else in the future, please write in. 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: I know we're talking about uh, like, what is dating, divorce? 22 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: Like or dating in an older age, all kinds of things. 23 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: So before we get into this trigger warning for brief 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: mentions of sexual assault and trauma. And I did want 25 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: to start this with, um, sort of my personal feelings 26 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: around love, and I do want to say, like, I 27 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: don't want any of this to come across as like 28 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: sweeping generalization sions. I very much know this is me 29 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: and this is how I feel, and it's down to 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: experiences I've had in my life. So I am someone 31 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: who crushes really really easy because I think crushing feels safe, um, 32 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: and it's fun, and I have been in love before. 33 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I wanted to talk about 34 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: this is because I've also been really struggling to untangle 35 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: my feelings around love and sex. As you all know, 36 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: I've been trying to nail down what it means for 37 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: me to be a sexual and further complicating that, it 38 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: is my past history of trauma which is totally eroded 39 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: my sense of trust in literally everything in myself where 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm tricking people into liking me, 41 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: and I don't trust myself to know what I actually 42 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: want and to communicate that effectively. I also don't trust 43 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: other people to be honest with what they want. And 44 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: I frequently feel like I'm playing a game wherein I 45 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: don't know the rules of that game, Like there's a 46 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: level of communication going on that most people seem to get, 47 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,839 Speaker 1: but I do not get it, which feels very, very 48 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: unsafe to me. And when I find out people have 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: any sort of romantic interest in me, I immediately feel 50 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: guilty and like the only thing they've wanted out of 51 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: me this entire time is sex. And this manifested in 52 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: a recent conversation with a friend of mine, where I 53 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: was saying how whenever I realized that someone had interested 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: affed her years of friendship, I felt like everything had 55 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: just been a trick to get sex, and that was 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: how they saw me. How I'm afraid all of society 57 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: sees me like a sex object and that's it. And 58 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: she said, rightfully, so that you can care about someone 59 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: and you can love someone with no strings attached, even 60 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: if you would like a physical relationship, uh, even if 61 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: they don't feel the same way. And it was just 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: so opposite of how I see things. I didn't even 63 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: know how to respond to her. And I know, again, 64 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: that's my baggage that's me. And on top of that, 65 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: as one who doesn't want to have sex, I have 66 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: a real fear around in any way misleading someone that 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: I might and since in my mind, I think in 68 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people's minds, sex is a part of 69 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: a healthy relationship, and yes, I know it doesn't have 70 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: to be, but I think most people think of it 71 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: that way. That means I'm afraid that saying yes to 72 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: relationship is putting me in danger. Even if I'm upfront 73 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: about all of this, which I usually am, and the 74 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: other person says it's fine, I feel like they just 75 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: believe they'll be the one to change me, or that 76 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: they'll wear me down again, that lack of trust, and 77 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: for a long time I have just resigned myself to 78 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: the fact that I'm not going to have a healthy 79 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: relationship because I don't want to have sex. And I 80 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: know that's not true, and it's something I'm only just 81 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: now trying to reframe in my mind, but that's how 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: I thought for a long time, and it made me 83 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: feel like something was wrong with me and that I 84 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: was failing. Compounded by the fact that success in our 85 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: society equals stable relationship like I was trying to think 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: of a rom colm that doesn't have a sexual element, 87 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: could not do it. But also I clearly have a 88 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: hang up around sex about how I see it as 89 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: something that's only used to hurt, to control, to degrade. 90 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: How people who want to have sex with me do 91 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: not see me as a person, which isn't true either, 92 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: because sex absolutely can be and often is a part 93 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: of a healthy, loving relationship. And you can just have 94 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: sex because you want to. It can just be a 95 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: fun thing that you want to do. Uh. This is 96 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: something I'm currently I can't even imagine that. Um, but 97 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: I am working on in therapy. Sex and love are 98 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: so separate my mind that you listeners got to hear 99 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: it in our ash book Club episode where it never 100 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: even occurred to me that love and sex can co exist. Uh. 101 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: And now we can argue about consent and what went 102 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: down in that scene, and we will touch on our 103 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: cultural depictions of love and sex. The point is, for me, 104 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: the idea of someone actually loving me and wanting to 105 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: have sex with me is un fathomable currently. I do 106 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: think we could expound this out to how we have 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: traditionally depicted women as sex objects and how a lot 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: of our porn is degrading and violent towards women and 109 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: all about male pleasure at women's pain and the impact 110 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: of girls and women internalizing that probably a whole separate 111 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: episode we could deal. And I've also been experiencing lately. 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: I have a friend who's um dating, which is kind 113 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: of put on hold because this whole quarantine thing. And 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: I was just listening to him talk about it and 115 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: how excited he was about it and how much funny 116 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: thought it was, and I've just I'm so jealous. I'm 117 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: so jealous that those are fun things for people that 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: there isn't all this stealth to deal with. Because for me, 119 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: like when people asked me out, it should be fine, 120 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: it should be lovely, it should be great. But basically, 121 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: no one who has asked me out has done anything wrong. Um, 122 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: they are not looking to make me feel worthless. It's 123 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: not their fault I feel this way. It's not my 124 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: fault I feel this way, but that's the way it is. 125 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: And ultimately, I think there's also insecurity and a belief 126 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: that I cannot be loved. So all of that to say, 127 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: love is complicated, I mean, if you want to summarize 128 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: it into one thing, yes, love is obviously beyond complicated, 129 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty close with you. I definitely agree a 130 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: lot of any of this. It would be a misogynistic 131 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: view of how we have been forced to see ourselves 132 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: in relationships. And when I say ourselves, those who identify 133 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: as female, non binary, who are seen as an object altogether. 134 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: I think it becomes a traumatic sensitiveself when you're dating. 135 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: But then you add to past trauma when you have 136 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: been used and you have been degraded, and you have 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: been someone who has lost power somehow because people are 138 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: using power over you in order to satisfy themselves and 139 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: degrade someone. And I think that's a whole big conversation 140 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: in itself. And we know that this is an actual 141 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: way of changing a person's personality in the sense of 142 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: when someone's control is taken away at youth and this 143 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,119 Speaker 1: is what they expect for the rest of their life. 144 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of definitely questions and a lot 145 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: of things that has to be undone. And I'm I 146 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,239 Speaker 1: hear you, I'm with you. I've seen people there, uh, 147 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: in my job. That's kind of the conversation. And as 148 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: where one extreme can be too completely shut off the 149 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: other extreme is to buy into it and um lean 150 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: into the fact that that's who they are now, and 151 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: that is also traumatic and also really really sad to see. 152 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: For me, I have a lot of trauma as well. 153 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: We've talked about this so many times in our Trauma 154 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: series for both me and you and our point of view. 155 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: I have a lot of attachment issues that I had 156 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: to try to start working on in high school, in 157 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: middle school when I came to the US, outside of 158 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: being adopted, and I think a big portion of my 159 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: past is also not to trust and not to believe 160 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: that something is real. And I think also for me, 161 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: I'm a very literal person when it comes down to 162 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: media things. I'm very analytical as well, and I can 163 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: get metaphors. However, for me, when I see and think 164 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: of love, it's not just that feeling of you being 165 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: nice to me. I need to see it. It needs 166 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: to be consistent, and consistency is what brings me to 167 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: be attached to you. So when you have me as 168 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: a friend, I'll be a friend for life. It takes 169 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: a lot to push me away, but what I'm done, 170 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm done, um, and I'm even less forgiving. In a 171 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: romantic relationship. I absolutely will turn away from someone if 172 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a chance of rejection and or 173 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: a chance of abuse of power. So I think there's 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: a lot of that conversation too, And for me, I'm 175 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: trying to navigate, even today, almost in my forties, what 176 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:46,239 Speaker 1: the hell is love? I have actually gone and surveyed 177 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: my friends and asked them individually when they tell me 178 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: they've told someone they loved them, I was like, how 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: did you know? What makes what made you say you 180 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: love them? What is it about them that you're like, yes, 181 00:09:58,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: I love you? And I kind of sit there and 182 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: wait for them to respond, and of course they kind 183 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: of look at me with this baffled look of like, 184 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: of course this love are you talking about? We've been 185 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: together for a year, We've been together for you know, 186 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: three months. Even more so, when people will say that 187 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: they've been something together with someone for two months and 188 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: they say I love you, I was like, what are 189 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: you sure? Are you? Are you real? Sure? You may 190 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: want to go back and think about that, which is 191 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: completely me projecting, because for me, I had never ever 192 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: said I love you um to a man or to 193 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: a partner, anyone in a romantic idea until just recently even, 194 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like, uh, and it took a 195 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: literally years of bargaining and figuring that out for myself 196 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: and with that person as well. Now again for me, 197 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: I'm with you, sex and love did not necessarily equate, 198 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: and it wasn't in one thing. And I even came 199 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: to the point of being this is too hokey, this 200 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: is ridiculous, Like making love. It makes me like that 201 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: phrase makes me cringe so hard. I hate it. I 202 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: hate that phrase in every way. And it's like it's 203 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: kind of like you know those trigger words, they're like, 204 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: oh God, why do you say that? That phrase is 205 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: definitely one of those things that I'm like, oh God, 206 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: why did you say that? Because that doesn't make sense 207 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: to me? And even still like I'm in a fairly 208 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: normal partnership right now, I say fairly nothing's really normal 209 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: in that, you know, we're trying to grow together and 210 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: learn together, but it still does not equate necessarily. Um. 211 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: And I feel like for the longest time, I didn't 212 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: have sex until I was Leslimonade, like twenty six, I think, UM, 213 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: and a part of that was so many things again, trauma, uh, 214 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: insecurities as well, as a fear of what that seems 215 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: like a being that open and vulnerable, because every act 216 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: of to me, what's sex is in the intimacy is 217 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: very vulnerable. You're you're showing up of yourself that you 218 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: may not have ever wanted to show anyone, Like I 219 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: not aeople see Shoot, I'm looking at myself with a 220 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: double general on the I'm like, well, am I looking 221 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: at myself like this? But it's kind of that level 222 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: of trying to bring and mesh those two things together. 223 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: And my assumption has always been it's all about the sex, 224 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: and it's and I think that's part of the whole 225 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: patriarch in valuing and what is the value of a woman? 226 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: What is the value of those feminine traits? And it 227 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: is for pleasure, it is for oppression, and it's kind 228 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: of all of those things. So it's it's really a twofold, 229 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 1: very hard thing to understand. And that's kind of the 230 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: conversation you and I've had many times about sex and 231 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: unfolding the power of sex and why it's important to 232 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: break down those thought process and break down the fact 233 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: that women can enjoy sex. Those who identifies female, who 234 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: have for so long felt like they're being used or 235 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: they're using it for something. Had to let go of 236 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: that fact of be like, oh, this can also be 237 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: for me and about me, okay, And I think that's 238 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: the whole conversation. And that's until feminism is no longer necessary. 239 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: And I say that in the sense of the movement 240 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: and the word in itself being such a cringe worthy 241 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: thing for many of people who think it's about women 242 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: hating men. And until we can make the idea, this 243 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: misogynistic idea as a whole, until we can recognize it 244 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: in our everyday life and everyday social commentary and everyday 245 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: understanding of our own selves and our own bodies, I 246 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: think it's still going to be really hard to let 247 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: go of the fact that sex is not about power, 248 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: and sex can be about love and what does that 249 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: truly truly look like. So for me, I absolutely am 250 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: with you, and I'm still again. I'm hitting forty this year, y'all. 251 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm hitting forty, and I still have no idea what 252 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: the hell this looks like other than I know. For me, 253 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: for love, when I express love, whether it's romantically, whether 254 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: it's in friendship, it's me hopefully being selfless enough to 255 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: make sure you're okay and that you are cared for 256 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: and you are seen and you are heard, So that 257 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: in itself should be translated into sex as well. But 258 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole other conversation of putting those two things together. Yeah, 259 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: and I did want to go back to one thing 260 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: you said, because I do think, UM, a big part 261 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: of love is vulnerability, and uh, in the longest term 262 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: relationship I've ever had, I remember having this moment where 263 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: I was I was sharing these like personal things I've 264 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: never really shared with anybody, and I sort of jokingly 265 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: looked at him and I said, I've just given you 266 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: the tools to destroy me if you wanted to. And 267 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,359 Speaker 1: I think that's another thing of trauma, is like accepting 268 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: you have this past history of people looking for these 269 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: things to hurt you with, and you're having to trust 270 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: that someone won't do that. And um, sex is very 271 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable as well. And then I think, along with all 272 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: of this I have I know, I said in a 273 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: past episode, I think being creative is really analytical, and 274 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: when I need to get into a dark space really quickly, 275 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: I have what I call a nuclear thought, and all 276 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: it is is primordial unworthiness, just feeling absolutely unworthy. And 277 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: I think when you have that in you, it's hard. 278 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: If you can't love yourself, it's hard to accept love 279 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: from other people. Right. And I think I would add 280 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: to this caveat because I have had this many a conversation. 281 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: Because on the outside I have a strong personality. I 282 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: will defend the week till to the death, like I 283 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: will absolutely go after somewhat that I'm a fierce and 284 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: loyal person and I'm a fierce for the visual in itself. 285 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: If I think you are in the wrong and you 286 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: are um and when I say you know and I 287 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: think you're in the wrong, I'm thinking you're being oppressive. 288 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: I'm saying you're being um, racist, you know, any of 289 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: those things, I'm gonna come at you real hard. And 290 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: because of that strong person anality, when I have made 291 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: the statement before which you just did as well, that 292 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: I don't think I can be loved or I am lovable, 293 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: that people oftentimes kind of people who have never been 294 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: into this level of have had their power taken from 295 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: them and have had their own bodies used against them, 296 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: and or have had their own feelings and securities used 297 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: against them to this level that is paralyzing don't understand 298 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: why you can't just shake it off. Um, and just 299 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: for a lot of the people, because I know we've 300 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: got some damn strong listeners. And I love it. I 301 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: love how strong you as our audience are, because you 302 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: are fierce. You are finding out who you are if 303 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: you don't already know who you are, and I love that. 304 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: But I also know sometimes having that on the front, 305 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: people passed by to see, oh, you can handle it, 306 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: and that's not necessarily the case. And oftentimes these are 307 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: this is the kryptonite in our lives. And I remember 308 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: I had a really good friend who is I love her. 309 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: I love them essentially because they are so strong. They 310 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: just can't understand why you can't feel the fact that 311 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: they are confident in who they are, they know themselves 312 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: and they're willing to stand up and just you know, 313 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: are able to do that, and then be like, why 314 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: can't you? And it's just the whole conversation of that 315 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: past trauma that passed, not even just past trauma, just 316 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: current insecurities anxieties about yourself have a lot to do 317 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: with the fact that these things cannot connect in your brain, 318 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: especially when you're trying to make sense of it as 319 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: a literal term, and I just wanted to point out 320 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: for both that A those who are like me who 321 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: feel strong, we see you. We know that there's that 322 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: vulnerability and it's hard. It's hard to see that and 323 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: be for those who are able to see themselves in 324 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: that light, and I are able to give that. Please 325 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: show people how to do that. Talk to people and 326 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: encourage them how you can do it, Like it's not 327 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: about bragging, it's about finding who you are, and that's wonderful. 328 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: I guess. Oh god, there's so many things. Obviously we 329 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: just opened up a whole big box of things. But 330 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and start with definitions. Yes, but before that, uh, 331 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: I did want to say, we do want to recognize 332 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: that for some people, for one reason or another, physically 333 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: can't have sex. Is very painful. We see you as well, Yes, 334 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: see you as well. And yes, and that's also the 335 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: conversation of why it's not necessarily important to equate sexes 336 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: the only way of communicating a love. Yes, but all right, yes, 337 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: definition time, definition time, here we go. So how would 338 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: you define love? Well, the ancient Greeks had seven different 339 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: words for love, and we know there's a lot of 340 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: different words. It's a complicated one to define, but the 341 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: Miriam Webster took a swing at it with quote strong 342 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties. 343 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: And professionals define love in the context of romantic love 344 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: as a set of emotions, behaviors, beliefs tied to powerful 345 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: feelings of affection, respect, warmth, and protectiveness. And people do 346 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: define I love in different ways. Some hallmarks are things 347 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: like putting someone else's well being above your own, intense 348 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: attachment or need, and instructural terms, choosing to commit to 349 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: someone through marriage and or by having a child with them. 350 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: And it can look different for different people and across cultures. 351 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: Love is something that cannot be turned off. You often 352 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: can't control it. And also you can have an orgasm 353 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: without love. Just just a reminder, you can buy an orgasm, 354 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: and at this time I think a lot of people have, 355 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: but you can't buy true love. It is mostly unconditional 356 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: and sort of going off of what Samantha and I 357 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: were talking about um recently in therapy, my therapist told 358 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: me about trauma bonds and we'll probably do a whole 359 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: episode on it, but wanted to include a brief overview, 360 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: just because I do see this really often in my 361 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: friends and in myself. Trauma bond is sort of like 362 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome, and it's one of the reasons people stay 363 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: in abusive and or toxic relationships. It's a survival strategy 364 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: where a relationshi ship starts out seemingly healthy but terms abusive, 365 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: and the person being abused tries to figure out what 366 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: they're doing wrong to restore the relationship back to what 367 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: it once was. Trauma bonding is a type of attachment 368 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: that comes out of years of abuse or traumatic experiences. 369 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: If that abuse came from someone who is taking care 370 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: of you as a child, who loved you but also 371 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: abused you, then the ideas of abuse and love can 372 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: get tangled up together. And to feel love, do you 373 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: feel like you need to feel abuse? Right? And with 374 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 1: that trauma bonds, we can delve into the idea of 375 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: familial abuse patterns, which we kind of talked about in 376 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: our Trauma series the same in referencing children who witnessed 377 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: domestic violence will often attribute that as normal and a 378 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: twisted show of relationships and love, and will often fall 379 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: into similar behavior in their own relationships, which she just 380 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of mentioned. Yeah, so that's the whole thing. Another 381 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: example of how complex love can be, and we will 382 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: probably return to that in the future, but for now, 383 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: let's talk love science. There's love science, there's so much 384 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: of it. From an evolutionary perspective, love is all about 385 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: survival of the species, both in terms of procreation, but 386 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: also in terms of it's easier to survive as a 387 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: team if you have someone to help you pull resources. 388 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: M r I scans of brains of people in love 389 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: show the areas associated with the feel good reward chemical 390 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: dopamine are just on fire. These areas are also tied 391 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: to feelings of motivation, want, focus, and craving. As I'm 392 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: sure you're probably all heard, these are the same areas 393 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: that light up when cocaine users feel that first sensation 394 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: of euphoria, and they also play a role in addiction. 395 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: Research often breaks love down into three stages, lust, attraction, 396 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: and attachment. And when we first fall in love, this 397 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: flood of chemicals not only in sights and emotional response, 398 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: but also an influx of stress hormone cortisol, which causes 399 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: things like your racing heart, sweaty palms, butterflies in your stomach, 400 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: and those feelings of attachment parts really caused by oxytocin vasco. 401 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: President is also in the mix, which might be behind 402 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: some of the feelings of sexual monogamy, empathy, and trust, 403 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: which is interesting. And other studies suggest that how the 404 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: heart reacts under stress directly influences how the brain processes 405 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: emotion and therefore the level of power we assign those emotions. 406 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: So estrogen and testosterone are also involved, particularly in sexual attraction. 407 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: I find it really really interesting that our bodies respond 408 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: similarly to a threat because love is all about vulnerability, 409 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: as we said, so it makes sense. It makes sense 410 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: always attributed. Uh, that's too much what I'm gonna say 411 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: it Flo. I was like, I think I actually tweeted 412 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: this a long long time ago about how I felt like, uh, 413 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: sometimes when I have a crush, it feels like also 414 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: that the same feeling when I need a Poop's interesting 415 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: stomach feeling, just saying, I wonder what that what that 416 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: is that correlation is for me? Yeah, so I have 417 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: a and I still am not able to explain this 418 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: if any listener could write in and explain it. When 419 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: I was like in middle school, I at the time, 420 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: we called each other on the phone. I called her 421 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: and I said, look, I think I just had an orgasm. 422 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: And she was like what, and I said, yeah, I'm 423 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: watching like my crush on TV and I just felt 424 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: this like really powerful swooping feeling everywhere and it wouldn't stop. 425 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 1: And I still get that, like when I crush really hard, 426 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I can just it's like a swooping um. And I 427 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: don't know, I I thought, because it's not butterflies in 428 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: the stomach. It's a different thing. It's way more powerful 429 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: than that. Um, it's not an organs. I didn't know 430 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: back then, but now I know. Uh. Yeah. If anyone's 431 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: got any answers on that thing, I would love to know. Um. 432 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: One study has found that couples in love synchronized breath 433 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: and heartbeat. Another one found that quote being in love 434 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: literally induces the state which is not normal, and another 435 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: one found a correlation between thoughts of a loved one 436 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: and decreased activity in the reasoning and judgment area of 437 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: the brain. The conductors of this study likened it to 438 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: beer goggles, a suspension of belief conducive to procreation. And 439 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: yet another study found that when two people experience a connection, 440 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: their brain patterns mimic each other's. This study was really, really, 441 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: really fascinating. A part of this has to do with 442 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: the vagus nerve, which runs from your brain to your heart, 443 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: and some of the things it does is allow for 444 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: synchronization of facial expressions with someone else, better maintaining of 445 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: eye contact, adjusting tiny muscles in your ears so you 446 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: can better hear someone's specific voice frequency. The vagus nerves. 447 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: Ability to do this is measured as something called vagel tone. 448 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: A high vagal tone means more chances at connections with others, 449 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: more chances at love potentially. A study looking at loving 450 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: kindness meditation found that people can significantly increase their vague 451 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: tone if they put their mind to. Basically, if you 452 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: think about loving someone else, you kind of can increase 453 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: your ability to love someone else. Beyond just having more 454 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: meaningful connections. Several other health benefits are linked with high 455 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: vagel tone. And one thing I want to say about 456 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: the study, I highly recommend reading it. Um. It was 457 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: trying to reframe how we think about love entirely, and 458 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: it was saying, like, you can feel love with the 459 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: stranger for two minutes. It's the same feeling it's just 460 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: not the everlasting like I'm going to marry this person 461 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 1: or whatever, be with this person forever, But you can 462 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: still experience love, even if for a short time for 463 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: someone else. It was really cool. So if I ever 464 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: meet Chris Evans's but only for two minutes, I just 465 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: wanted to remind myself and put this out there to 466 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: all the world. So the first pharamonds we discovered in 467 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties and chemical female silkworms gave off to 468 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: attract males. But as of yet, we have no wrong 469 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: proof of a human equivalent. Which are we still doing 470 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: those researcher do you know? Yeah, I know people are 471 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: still looking into it. And there was some kind of 472 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: inconclusive research that suggested that there is a in the 473 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: sweat gland of men. I believe there's something equivalent to pheromones. 474 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: Um pigs have the same thing, and that's how they 475 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: use truffle pigs. By the way, you can check out 476 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: Savor episode over that. Then there's no definitive proof, but yes, 477 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: science is ongoing looking into this for sure. So and 478 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this before because when we were 479 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: talking about the two minute love like moments, lust can 480 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: be confused with love. It involves similar chemicals, and I 481 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: feel like that's been said and people kind of already 482 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: know that the main difference is the emotional connection, one 483 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: that LUSS can eventually lead to. Yes, going back to 484 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: those three stages, a lot of researchers divide it up 485 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 1: into LUSS, detachment, love, um and there is a difference 486 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: between that lust and attraction. They are are very closely 487 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: related and often do happen in tandem, but they can 488 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: occur separately. Chemically, loss has more to do with testosterone 489 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: and estrogen, while attraction has more to do with reward 490 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: pathways in the brain dopamine or riprefriend uh. These chemicals 491 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: can give us a sense of euphoria, excitement, energy, giddiness, 492 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: and also decrease our appetite and make it difficult to sleep. 493 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: So if you've ever been unable to eat or sleep 494 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: because of love, the science behind it. At the same time, 495 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: the level of seratonin decreases, which might explain the almost 496 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: obsessive feelings in the early phases of love. Too much 497 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: dopamine is what can lead to things like jealousy. I 498 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: wonder what happens with heartbreak because for me, that loss 499 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: of sleep and appetite happens if I'm heartbroken. It's probably 500 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: very similar, where it's like you're still feeling those things, 501 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: but you now you've been cut off. So sexual arousal 502 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: has been shown to switch off regions of the brain 503 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: involved in rationality and critical thinking and self awareness. Some 504 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: academics speculate there are two types of love, love and 505 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: erotic love. While love is all about the other person, 506 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: while erotic love is about wanting something for yourself. Yes, 507 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: which is also interesting. I love how much science there 508 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: is around all of this. It has to be. There 509 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: has to be, And there's also a lot in our 510 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: pop culture about all of this, and we'll get into that, 511 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: but first we're going to get into a quick break 512 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: or word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor. 513 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: So yes, love and our culture so much, so much. 514 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: I also, I cannot as you're going for the ad break, 515 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: it's still met. What is love forever? Stop? It's going 516 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: to be there forever. So we are tested with the 517 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: idea of love. Obviously, we just really went into a 518 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: rant um. Like all the movies and TV shows and 519 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: books and video games and songs are about love in 520 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: one form or the other, or most of them anyway, 521 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: if they're not, it's about a story about probably tragedy 522 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: of some sort, not necessarily a romantic love, but love 523 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: a million quotes. We're going to, oh God breathed by 524 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: some of these things, but most definitely deserve their own episode. 525 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: I once got into not an argument, but kind of 526 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: like a challenge with a friend of mine because I 527 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: was positing I think if we listen to twenty songs 528 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: at random, every one of them, it's going to be 529 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: about love, and uh, I maintain I one he we 530 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: got to fight about what was that mackamore song about 531 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: the scooter downtown? He says that one's not about love. 532 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: I think it is, but a either it's about love 533 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: or sex for sure. Yeah yeah, no, yeah, we did 534 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: say love or sex and he was like, I think 535 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: it's about his scooter and I was like, he loves 536 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: that bag scooter though. But anyway, what is love according 537 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: to pop culture? And I know we've talked about this 538 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: time and time again. You've probably heard it in many places, 539 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: not on this podcast, but our traditional pop culture depictions 540 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: of love are oftentimes, at the very least setting us 541 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: up for a let down. Or at the worst, romanticizing, obsessive, 542 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: stalker ish, jealous, possessive behavior, the idea of getting the 543 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: girl and entitlement if you put in the time, rape 544 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: and wearing someone down painted as acceptable behaviors. This all 545 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: contributes to rape culture and an unhealthy view of what 546 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: love is. And I actually got into a fight with 547 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: my X once because he said I wasn't jealous enough. Interesting. Yeah, 548 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: but I mean, I think that's a really good indicator 549 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: of how we have depicted love and internalize those messages 550 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: from our pop culture of like, jealous means he must 551 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: really care, she must really care. But it's not healthy. 552 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: That's not a healthy thing. No, please no. Yeah. So 553 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: monogamy and the idea of the one, the one um 554 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: one that he found you should reject the first thirty 555 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: seven percent of potential life partners, and then after that, 556 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: whoever you meet that is better than all of those 557 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: that came before is the one. And I'm gonna keep 558 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: saying it like that. Please echo me. If you're thinking 559 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,239 Speaker 1: of implementing this into your life, the first step is 560 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: figuring out the maximum number of people you want to 561 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: date in your lifetime. And I can't imagine what that 562 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: looks like with online dating right now? Like it less, 563 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: it could be endless. I've definitely been When I first 564 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: started online dating, I went on, I want to like 565 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: four days within two weeks with different people. Yeah, I 566 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: feel like this is a movie character. She probably already exists, 567 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: but who is like really like making a list of 568 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: you know, doing the math, doing a calculus level math 569 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: and she's on a date with someone and she's like, well, 570 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you're within the first thirty scent, so 571 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: not meant to be so sex in the city it is, 572 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: I feel like one of the things. And I do 573 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: love the show. It's definitely not dated. Well just so 574 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, but you have each one of those different 575 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: characters with different personas, and one of the characters, Charlotte 576 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: was kind of that methodical person was reading all the 577 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: books on how to get husband's, reading all the books 578 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: that who she should hang out with in order to 579 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: get those perfect husbands. So yeah, definitely those characters do exist. 580 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: Yea um, and didn't want to put in here again. 581 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: We're breathing by these things that should definitely be entire episodes. 582 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: But love can be expressed in all kinds of ways. 583 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: Outside of this traditional monogamous way, open and polyamorous relationships 584 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: can absolutely be loving and healthy. And I actually started 585 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: wondering about how people and Polly and open relationships are 586 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: doing during quarantine. So if anyone wants to write in 587 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: and let us know, please do definitely a future episode. Um. 588 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: And then love at first sight this is something that's 589 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: pretty popular in our pop culture depictions of love. Um, 590 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: it is possible. There there are studies into it, and 591 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: then there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of you know, 592 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: I saw this person across the room and I just 593 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: knew and then they fell in love. Um. It's also 594 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: possible to have short burst of loves for someone like 595 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: you're saying earlier, but not be in love. In my 596 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: personal take on this, I think it is possible, but 597 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: it's a lot rarer than perhaps we think, right. I 598 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: wonder if this is the whole romantic could have been, 599 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: you know. Um. There's also the idea of love languages. 600 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: In Gary Chapman published the book The Five Love Languages 601 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: and How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to your Mate. So 602 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: the basic premise is that people express and experienced love 603 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: in five ways, which is very narrow. Um. Words of affirmation, 604 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: physical touch, quality time, access service, and receiving gifts. Chapman 605 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: thinks each person has a primary and secondary love language, 606 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: and the key to healthy relationship is to know an 607 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: understanding the love language of your partner or partners. So, Anie, 608 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: do you know your Did you ever take this test? 609 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: I actually just took it for this episode. I feel 610 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: like so Japanese released several books after this, and for 611 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: some reason, I feel like love languages maybe like four 612 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: years ago was a big topic of conversation. Everyone was 613 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,479 Speaker 1: talking about it back up again. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. 614 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: I took it and I got I was tied between 615 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: quality time and acts of service, and words of affirmation 616 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: was like really close. So I would have absolutely said 617 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: quality time for you. At the very beginning, I would 618 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: have said receiving, not receiving, giving gifts, acts of service. 619 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: Giving gifts is what I would have imagined, because you 620 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: love giving very personalized gifts to people, and I feel 621 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: like giving That's what I'm saying, Not like that. I 622 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: guess I could be under acts of service, so that 623 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: could go there. Uh yeah, and then words of affirmation, 624 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah, for me, mine was absolutely acts of service. 625 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: Actually that was my very top one, so you know, 626 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: I love you if I'm doing things for you or 627 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: making sure I'm taking care of you somehow. And then 628 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: I think the second one was words of affirmation, and 629 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: then the third one was quality of time. Yeah. Yeah, 630 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: So this was a long time ago, and I was like, yeah, 631 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: that is that's me to a t to a certain extent, 632 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: and I think that's a lot of people who work 633 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: in nonprofits and industries like that. That's kind of our thing. 634 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: But as it is, it's very religious. I do remember 635 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: that because it was during my religious phase. It was 636 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: a bad lot of face. But yeah, I still think 637 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: there's some truth to it. Of course, I do think 638 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: it's too easily scaled down, but kind reductive, Yeah, I do. 639 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: I think I appreciate the idea of because I've definitely 640 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: had a moment of realizing what I see is like 641 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: this powerful thing. Maybe someone else doesn't like and that's fine, 642 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: but it's good to know, like, Okay, you these things 643 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: are more important to you, and these things are more 644 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 1: important to me. And as long as we get that, um, alright, 645 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: So me cute and flirting, I did not know what 646 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: you know, what me cute was? I love that what 647 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: coming back to make cute so often because I had 648 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: to explain that to you in your face, going what's that? What? 649 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: I totally get it now. I thought it was like 650 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: a dating app or something which would be great dating 651 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: apppen me cute um. A two thousand four analysis a 652 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: flirting literature found six main motivations behind flirting and oh 653 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: my gosh, we have to do a flirting episode in 654 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: the future um one. Trying of sex, fun, exploration of 655 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: potential relationship, trying to increase intimacy in a relationship, self 656 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: esteem boost and using it to get something from someone. Uh. 657 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: This analysis also identified four main types of flirts physical, 658 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: traditional meaning the man makes the first move, sincere trying 659 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: to get someone to open up, and playful seeing it 660 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: as a game. According to science, most of the successful 661 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: methods of flirting our things like holding eye contact, the 662 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: quote core gaze, smiling a lot, complimenting someone, making someone laugh, 663 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: maybe wearing something red, especially as a woman as disgusted 664 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: in our Smith DCS red episode. A majority of flirting, 665 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: I think almost seventy is body language. So uh. I 666 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: remember when a hitch the dude that the movie Hitches 667 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: based on the love of doctor. I think he's called um. 668 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,959 Speaker 1: He came to my college and he said something like 669 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: asking some one what was something really fun that they've 670 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: done recently so they'd associate fun with you. So he 671 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: actually did he get do a class or something he 672 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: did like a talk? Went, yes, I did. I don't 673 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: know what I need to think about your shock about 674 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 1: it and actually pretty shocks. I'm sorry, that's okay, it's 675 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 1: it's fair. It's fair, you know what. Always catching me 676 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: up about it? Though, I was thinking a lot of 677 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: people were there, and like, how embarrassing it would be 678 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: if you tried this move on someone who was also 679 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: at that thing. So this is a tech right, Yes, okay, 680 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Well I will move on from your judgment, 681 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: Samantha J. Kale. And then I got to thinking of 682 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: what a whole different ballgame this is when it comes 683 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: to online dating, because again, I have some friends who 684 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: are on tender or whatever it is, and sometimes I'll 685 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: just observe them like I'm a documentarian or something like. 686 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: So now you must wait, how and before you sending emoji? 687 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: Like right, I will say when I was online dating 688 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: and my friends who were already a couple married or whatever, 689 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: and I have one friend who's been married forever. We 690 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: love to joke about the fact that she was so 691 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: young and there's been together like old couples since you know, 692 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: their mid their teenage years. It is not true, but 693 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: we just tease them, um, and they're they're great, they're happy. 694 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: But she got so excited when I was like, this 695 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: is what my dating app was like. It started like 696 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: swiping people left and right and left and right. I 697 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,280 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I'm taking that away from you. Because 698 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: she was so intrigued by what it was and trying 699 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,399 Speaker 1: to figure out how does this work? And then coming 700 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: around asking so that guy that I swiped so and 701 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: so for did he contact you? What happened? Like? She 702 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: was very intrigued. So definitely is a whole new ball game. 703 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: Not anymore, but was definitely at that point in time. Yeah. Yeah, 704 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: it's just different when we talk about flirting, and Samantha 705 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: and I were discussing earlier. We were reading these articles 706 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: about flirting and a lot of them said, you know, 707 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: do the gentle arm touch, and we were not. Now though, nope, 708 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: no touch touching. So that's also a whole different ball game. Um, 709 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: And you can see we did it, Samanthan. I did 710 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: an episode on kind of the gamification of modern dating. 711 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: Uh almost a year ago, I think a while ago. 712 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: You can listen to that if you want to learn more. 713 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: Science has also found that men overestimate women's sexual interest 714 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: and women underestimate men's sexual interest in the context of 715 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: hetero relationships, which surprised me not at all. Right, um so, 716 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 1: speaking of hetero relationships, we kind of wanted to delve 717 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: into what this men versus women may look like. And 718 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: in a heater of relationships, that's the shown that men 719 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: actually fall in love faster than women and tend to 720 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,399 Speaker 1: be the farcest say I love you, but women are 721 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: more likely to say it more often. So it's kind 722 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: of like that, huh okay. And I don't know if 723 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: this has that trope of men saying I love you 724 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: because I'm trying to get sucks like that that popped 725 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: into my head. I don't know for sure. But the 726 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: statistics the far saying that men do fall in love quicker. 727 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 1: I don't know where they got those numbers. I'm guessing 728 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: they just asked who knows? Um, And with that, men 729 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: are more likely to fall in love with several women, 730 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: while women have a smaller number or amount, So this 731 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: could be one of those probabilities over sound proof because 732 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: again I don't know where all these numbers came from 733 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: as I was researching it, but I was like, okay, cool, Um, 734 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: but there is that conversation of like, if you're quicker 735 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: to fall in love, but then you're quicker to like 736 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: move on and assuming whatever, maybe you would have a 737 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: higher number. Who knows? Who knows why I could not 738 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: find those answers, So I'm sure someone out there to 739 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: actually do do know? Can you tell me? Someone tell me? 740 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: Anybody telling me? The truth of love is complicated. We 741 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 1: did want to talk about marriage very briefly again the 742 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: whole episode. Um, so we wanted to talk about where 743 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,240 Speaker 1: we are today and what are the rules and expectations. 744 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: So start with the definition a wording to marry and 745 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: Webster marriage is defined as a state of being united 746 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: as spouses in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law. Um. Yeah, 747 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: so we're not going to go back into the conversation 748 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: of feminism and marriage and weddings as it's already been 749 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: covered a couple of times by previous hosts and you 750 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: should definitely go take a listen, because I though it's 751 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 1: still very controversial, but we did want to go quickly 752 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: over some of the connotations of marriage and women today. Yeah, 753 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: and as you you might guess when you're researching the 754 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: topic of love and marriage as as according to women, 755 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff out there, whether it's a 756 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: how to guide to being happy in marriage, why it 757 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 1: isn't beneficial to women, or how to make it beneficial 758 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: or I'm sure, like I would bet right now if 759 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: you looked at a if you happen to be out 760 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,320 Speaker 1: and glanced at a magazine rack, one of the headlines 761 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: on one of the magazines is how to keep your 762 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: marriage sexy or how to keep your man and your 763 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: marriage or something keep that man in that bad um. 764 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: I've definitely seen that headline. So when it comes down 765 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: to love and marriage, is there a difference in what 766 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: is being considered when it comes to this long term contract. 767 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: It seems there's not too many differences, including the fact 768 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,919 Speaker 1: according to match dot com, specifically to the UK Women film, 769 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: marriage is security in a relationship, not necessarily about financial 770 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: or economic security, but a level of security in a 771 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: long term commitment with papers. They also say that does 772 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: seem that men are more hesitant to get married, as 773 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: the average age of men who marry is thirty two 774 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: law for women in the UK is thirty. Interesting side note, 775 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,359 Speaker 1: the average of remarriages or getting married again have risen 776 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,839 Speaker 1: from thirteen percent in nineteen sixty to twenty thirteen, making 777 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,359 Speaker 1: it one in four people getting married again who had 778 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: been married once before. Mm hmm. Also something to note, 779 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: marriage has decreased and there have been a lot of 780 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: different theories and reasons as to why that might be. 781 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: In one study, that focus was on men no longer 782 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: being quote economically attractive, as well as possible incarceration of 783 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: the male population. Uh, this is a generalization, a kind 784 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: of simplified version of a massive study, while another shows 785 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: the rise of single life, which focuses on the idea 786 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 1: that marriage is no longer necessary. Single people can have children, 787 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: have sex, and even own houses, and single people can 788 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: enjoy their freedom and current lifestyle and feel fulfilled without marriage. Also, 789 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 1: I have throughout birth control, um things like that, which 790 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: I think may all of this could align more with 791 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: the millennial way of seeing things. Yeah, However, we're coming 792 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: back to the big picture. Marriage typically is aligned in 793 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: two schools of thoughts, traditional and modern. Traditional being man 794 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: or the masculine being head of the household with traditional 795 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: ginger roles, and modern which can also be thought of 796 00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,879 Speaker 1: as an androgynist or the idea of shared gender trait 797 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: stuff or what would be considered masculine and feminine traits. Again, 798 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: this seems to be coming up a lot as we're 799 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: researching about gendered traits, which I think we would definitely 800 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: need to go back and have a conversation on. We 801 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: can see the very big differences right now as families 802 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 1: are having to put these roles in heightened tight space 803 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: circumstances hashtag quarantine life indeed. But with all of that, 804 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,320 Speaker 1: less than five percent of Americans report that they would 805 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: get married without romantic love, which is a reminder of 806 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: big historical shift because marriage used to completely be about economics, 807 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,360 Speaker 1: but now in the United States it's very much about love. 808 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: As in fact, according to one study, love is still 809 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: the number one reason for a marriage in the United States, 810 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: are the most important reason to get married, ahead of 811 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: commitment and companionship. So even though the reasons and standards 812 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: of marriage has greatly changed over the many generations, it 813 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: does seem to be something women and men still desire 814 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: to be in love and sometimes even married. You know, 815 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: I mentioned recently on a podcast I have been asked 816 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: to get married before um, and recently I had not 817 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: one but two friends, female friends semi jokingly float the 818 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: idea of what they called a political marriage, where we 819 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: just get married and like hang out all the time. 820 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 1: And I was like happy. I was like, oh, hey, okay, 821 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: I can get behind this. Yeah. Absolutely, I think I've 822 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: tried to invite you to my hushold you have you have? 823 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,839 Speaker 1: I would be flattered and honored, Samantha. UM. But now 824 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about sex. But first we gotta pause 825 00:46:46,280 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: for a quick break for word from our sponsor, and 826 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsored. Can I do it? Let's 827 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: talk about sex, baby, baby, let's talk about you and 828 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: maybe oh yeah, so many songs for this episode, so 829 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: many earworms we're giving you. Our pop culture is obsessed 830 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: with sex to sex cells, as they say, and we 831 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: have definitely built it up into a huge thing in 832 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 1: the Western world. According to some of my friends in Europe, 833 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: particularly in the United States. UM, the media we consume 834 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: is telling us all the time, if you don't want 835 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: to have sex, and often a lot of sex, something 836 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,879 Speaker 1: is wrong with you. There are differences in there with 837 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,320 Speaker 1: what we tell men versus what we tell women. Um 838 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: that if you aren't having sex in your relationship, something 839 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: is off and you very might well break up over it. 840 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: We build the first time into something mythical, but it's 841 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,879 Speaker 1: often not. Uh. We build sex up into this amazing thing, 842 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: and it absolutely can be, but a lot of times 843 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: it's fine. It's fine. So and sex is a very 844 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: important part of relationships for many A survey over at 845 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: Elite Singles found that eighty percent of respondents said you 846 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: can't have a serious relationship without sex, and when asked 847 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: if they could be with someone who was absolute said no. 848 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: About twenty seven percent of men and twelve percent of 849 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: women said only if they could have other sexual partners. 850 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,840 Speaker 1: Of course, this did come from a dating site, and 851 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: I will say I have seen it on many a 852 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: dating sites they rank the importance of sex, but a 853 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,919 Speaker 1: pretty good snapshot of how a lot of people view 854 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: the role of sex in relationships. Or just think about 855 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 1: friends with benefits. There's no pop cultural romance without sex equivalent. 856 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: We can imagine being friends with someone having sex. But 857 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: for many it's hard to conceptualize being in love without 858 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: the sex part. Yes, and also obviously you don't have 859 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: to be in love to have sex with someone. I 860 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 1: think I was trying to sort out why some of 861 00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: the stuff might be and I think religion has played 862 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 1: a lot of big role in this. For centuries in 863 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: the Western world, we were told sex is bad unless 864 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: you're married, and even then, don't enjoy it, or you 865 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: go straight to hill um. And this was because the 866 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,399 Speaker 1: church and or state didn't want to have to pay 867 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,879 Speaker 1: for a bunch of fatherless kids, and yes, fatherless because 868 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 1: women couldn't work or own things. Women were so repressed 869 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: that they were getting diagnosed with hysteria and getting stimulated 870 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,759 Speaker 1: to orgasms at doctor's offices. In more recent times, with 871 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 1: the advent of things like birth control, people wanted to 872 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: have more sex, but there's still this nervousness around teen 873 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: pregnancy and women and girls sexual pleasure. So the narrative 874 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,879 Speaker 1: shifted to sex is the ultimate expression of of making love. 875 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: As you say, um, so don't have sex till you 876 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: have fallen in love and gotten married. So kind of 877 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,439 Speaker 1: tying all of those ideas together, marriage, sex and love. 878 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: Clearly that's not really what's happening, and a lot of 879 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 1: people don't think that way, but that is the messaging 880 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 1: that's out there for sure, right. And if we look 881 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: at sex education in the school systems, it would also 882 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,760 Speaker 1: imply me of the same things, because there's the debate 883 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: of abstinence versus safe sex, and we know abstinence comes 884 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: under the control of a religious idea of more oftentimes 885 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,440 Speaker 1: than not. Uh, the idea that absinence being wait till 886 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: you find the one that's love, true love weights? Am 887 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 1: I right? Am I right? Yeah? And for a lot 888 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,359 Speaker 1: of reasons. Sex can be emotional, especially if it's tied 889 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: with self image and self esteem issues. It can be 890 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 1: really vulnerable, which we already talked about earlier, and so 891 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: often having sex with someone you know really well and 892 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:38,280 Speaker 1: are very comfortable with, possibly someone you love, is more enjoyable, yes, 893 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: but clearly that differs from person to person. And as 894 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: we know, also a hysteria around hysteria fun word use, 895 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,000 Speaker 1: hook up culture. We've seen that too. So all of 896 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: this is going on, and when you think about it, 897 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,120 Speaker 1: equating sex with love can actually be really damaging if 898 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: you if you think you have to be young and 899 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 1: beautiful to have sex. Then do you have to be 900 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: young and beautiful to be loved. If you aren't sexually desirable, 901 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,279 Speaker 1: you aren't lovable. What if, for whatever reason, you can't 902 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,399 Speaker 1: have sex, does that make you not worthy of love? 903 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,839 Speaker 1: That's kind of a message we're getting if you think 904 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 1: about it, and it's messed up, super messed up. And 905 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,319 Speaker 1: another thing, I think feminism and liberation has gotten all 906 00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: tied up with this too, in sort of a murky way. 907 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: There's this these loud calls of women women like sex too, 908 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: and we like a lot of it, were horny and 909 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 1: we deserve pleasure. All are true, All are true. But 910 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,919 Speaker 1: I've definitely felt a pressure before to be vocal about 911 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,760 Speaker 1: how much I like sex and that if I didn't, 912 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: then I wasn't a good feminist, that I'm not liberated. 913 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,319 Speaker 1: So that's not good either, right, And we've got to 914 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,719 Speaker 1: understand once again, I think we've this has kind of 915 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,240 Speaker 1: been one of the themes of all of our shows 916 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 1: as allow women to be who they are and not 917 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: what you expect them and think they should be. And 918 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,040 Speaker 1: that's part of feminism, just being genuinely you, whether it 919 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,640 Speaker 1: as you enjoy or you don't enjoy and that's okay, yes, um. 920 00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,520 Speaker 1: And as we were researching this, we want to add 921 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,920 Speaker 1: a bit of women consider sexy. Oh god, And what 922 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,919 Speaker 1: I got was a laundry list of ways for men 923 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,800 Speaker 1: to attract women, including advice about men wearing red, apparently 924 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,960 Speaker 1: because you know women also find this attractive. I will say, 925 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,279 Speaker 1: but for me, I like the deep blue. So when 926 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,400 Speaker 1: I see someone coming with a deep blue shirt or what, 927 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:24,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, Hi, look at you. It's just that a person. 928 00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,800 Speaker 1: I'm just attracted to your shirt. But the thing about 929 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,759 Speaker 1: this is it's like the many things that I was 930 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,840 Speaker 1: trying to find out, like what do women find sexy? 931 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 1: What is it? And of course it definitely leaned towards 932 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 1: a little more of personality and um about attraction, about 933 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: being uh personable, and he says of humor, all of that, 934 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,480 Speaker 1: but more so of telling men how to get women 935 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: was out there as well as telling women how to 936 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: keep their man. It was out there, and I'm not 937 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: gonna lie. I got really frustrated and I had to 938 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 1: close my computer. I'm like, yeah, I'm done for tonight. 939 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,080 Speaker 1: This is observed because that was the majority of things 940 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: being set out there, instead of just talking about what 941 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 1: is sexy to women and why is it important that 942 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,319 Speaker 1: we acknowledge this is okay as well? It was more 943 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,800 Speaker 1: of how to guys, and I was very irritated. Yeah, 944 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,200 Speaker 1: that stuff always annoys me too, And it really annoys 945 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: me when they're like women find listening sexy and I'm like, 946 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't you just listen to people? Like how far have 947 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: we fallen? Where if you actually listen to the thing 948 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm saying to you, that's sexy? Right? That are little Again, 949 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,759 Speaker 1: the ideas that women's standards are a lot lower than 950 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:39,040 Speaker 1: man's a bummer. It's a bummer, um. And when researching 951 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: this sex appeal for queer women, it did lend a 952 00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:45,920 Speaker 1: lot to the emotional and empathetic connection. But also apparently 953 00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 1: arms arms is just as important for queer women as 954 00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 1: it is to heterosexual women. So there's that right in. 955 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,440 Speaker 1: If that's the case, right in, we would love some 956 00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 1: anecodotal stories, right, I mean true, they well like arms, um. 957 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,359 Speaker 1: And just to put it out there, it's common for 958 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: libidos to change and for people in relationships to not 959 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:13,840 Speaker 1: be on the same level. That's okay as always open communication. Yeah, 960 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:18,719 Speaker 1: I found more than one article from UH mediators and 961 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,839 Speaker 1: marriage counselors saying I see this all the time and 962 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,600 Speaker 1: like usually if they can just communicate and wait it out, 963 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,359 Speaker 1: it'll be okay. But I mean again, that shows how 964 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:37,120 Speaker 1: much we have tied together this idea of love and sex. Um. 965 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: So ah, there's a lot, a lot to un dangle here. 966 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,800 Speaker 1: We put in some some of it and our personal 967 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: takes on some of it, but we would clearly love 968 00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,759 Speaker 1: to hear from listeners, um any of your thoughts on 969 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,320 Speaker 1: any of this and what you think we should return 970 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: to in what could be who who knows how many 971 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:07,040 Speaker 1: part series on love and sex? So please email us 972 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. 973 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,160 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram as stuff I Never 974 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks 975 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,360 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thank you Andrew, 976 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told 977 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 1: You is a protection of I Heart Radio. For more 978 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,240 Speaker 1: podcast from my Heart Radio is the I Heart Radio app, 979 00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.