WEBVTT - The Merger 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:05.760 If you love basketball, there's a good chance you love 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.920 movies about basketball. I even had the chance to be 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.840 in one, like Mike. You've probably seen it. It's about 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.000 a kid named Calvin Cambridge played by Lil bow Wow, 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.760 who comes across a mysterious pair of old sneakers inscribed 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.480 with the faded initials MJ and. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.560 The rest Ah. Well, you should watch it. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.880 Here's one of my scenes which we shot on the 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.160 set of the NBA on NBC. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.560 The big story in the NBA, Calvin Cambridge, the four 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.640 foot eight dynamo, has now signed a lucrative contract with 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:40.960 the Knights, and no wonder after he led them to 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.200 have come from behind win over the Spurs with twenty seven. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:45.479 Points a kid was unbelievable. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.080 Another one of my favorite hoops movies is a send 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:50.080 up of something. 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.360 A little closer to reality, at least for me. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.880 Very successful and this ninth Annual ABA All Star Game Shining. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:03.920 Games Semi Pro starring Will Ferrell, set in nineteen seventy six, 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:09.160 the final year of the American Basketball Association in semi pro, 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.080 the fictional Flint Tropics are doing. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.160 Whatever they can to survive a merger. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.759 With the NBA despite having the worst record in the league. 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.720 Will Ferrell's character is a team owner, head coach, starting 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.839 power forward and pregame analyst Scott Armstrong wrote the film, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:29.800 they had. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.360 To compete with the NBA, which was like impossible for 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.600 them at the time. In order to compete with them, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.679 they had to like step up, you know, the showmanship 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:39.959 and step up the excitement of the game. So they 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.280 added things like the three point line. They added the 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:45.120 dunk contest, They had like a rainbow ball to play with, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.520 and like gave out prizes and had halftime shows. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.000 What makes Semi Pro fun for me is that many 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:57.040 of the teams actually existed. The characters are based on 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:01.840 real people, and some of the crazier stun like bear wrestling, 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:03.560 those actually happened. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:08.240 In the ABN the Destroyer wrestled Victor the Bear four 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.080 hundred pound Victor the Bear. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:16.440 I saw a charity event in pure Illinois, and like 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:19.680 the early nineties, like I happened to see like people 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.280 like were allowed to wrestle a bear for charity or whatever, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.000 and like now you would never ever ever be allowed 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:26.239 to do that, but they used to do stuff like 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.400 that in the seventies, and so that kind of inspired 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.320 that scene where like Will Ferrell would wrestle a bear 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.840 at halftime, we worked to a real grizzly bear and 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:36.880 we were in the gym with like a trained grizzly 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:37.680 bear for half of it. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:39.720 Of course, like Will was never in danger or. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.639 Anything, but there was one moment where there's this guy 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.520 just like blowing a whistle and like the bear was 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.720 not listening to the whistle and I'm like watching this 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.079 and he's going like like that, and then the trainer's 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.000 just like everyone get in the bathroom, and like we 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.720 all had to like go into the bathroom of the 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.360 of this like stadium that we built, and we're like 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.960 hiding in there with like the door. When you're in 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.000 the ring with that bear, you got to keep them 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.519 busy or he's able to just walk away from me 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.000 and wander to ring and back to his cage. So 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.800 the bear just wandered around the stadium by himself and 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:12.240 not eat anybody. 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:13.320 It was hilarious. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.720 Oh my god, how did the bear finally get to 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:18.400 where it was supposed to go? 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:19.200 I don't know. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.800 He just started like listening again, and like we're and 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.880 of course, like we need to get like a certain shot, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:25.160 so we're like, can we just. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:26.600 Do one more? I'm like, I don't know. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.480 Man, Like it's like like it's like that balance of 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.320 like will the director get eaten? 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:34.480 How bad do we need the shot? 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.120 The film captures the essence of the ABA players, coaches, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.960 and executives like my dad, Mike Storren, a gang of 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:49.120 ambitious dreamers who loved basketball and were determined to be 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:54.280 part of the NBA. Was there anyone real that you 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.160 modeled some of your characters after got Gae? 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.040 There's some moments, you know, like trading for a washing machine, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.120 like when Monix got traded for what really happened? I mean, 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.320 there are kind of amalgamations of like types, you know 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:07.600 what I mean. So I can't say it was like 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.560 someone you know, but like again, I know it's a ridiculous, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.440 silly movie, but like at the heart of it, there 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.240 is sort of like being the best you could possibly be. 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.320 I'm just so happy that it exists, that the film exists, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.080 because I think that so many people and really my 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.280 motivation for doing this podcast was, you know, not only 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.400 because I grew up around the ABA, but I was like, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:29.400 I know that there's so many people who watch a 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.520 game today that have no idea. They don't know that 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.120 this took place. They don't know where all this came from. 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:35.520 I can't believe it happened. 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.360 It really didn't happen. It really was insane, like these 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.559 guys traveling on buses and like dunking, like doing stuff 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.320 in a way that was like to half filled stadiums. 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:45.800 There's a freedom to it. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.640 It's like seventies America, Free Love, Free basketball. 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.440 Every movie has an ending, and so did the ABA. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.359 It was over in nineteen seventy five when a fraction 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.720 of the team left from the league's heyday made their 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.680 way into the NBA. It's the journey to get there 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.520 that is part of the screenplay of my life, and 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:14.360 this podcast documents all the plot twists, storylines and characters 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:15.160 along the way. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:23.040 I'm Hannah Storm and this is NBA DNA Episode two, The. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:32.120 Merger Waken out last Lloyd af here push it from 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:33.840 you to Brown. He wants to tuck you to get 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.040 it up quickly. Now as the end of the theory 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:37.680 that think that on the post to go more he 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:38.760 got it into position. 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:43.400 Throughout the history of the ABA, there was always an 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:48.320 underlying belief on the part of certainly every owner that 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:50.280 we should merge with the NBA. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:52.720 Danny will only here in Manhattan. 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.080 The Lakers keep up the pressure. 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.320 The issue was that if we can create a merger 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:03.440 with the NBA, we will then become one big, happy family. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.960 Our franchises will be very valuable, and we will be 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:15.719 economic and psychological success. So every time a new owner 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.400 came into the league, and there were a lot of them, 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.080 one of the things that they believed was, I will 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:23.200 create a merger. 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.080 That's my dad, Mike Storren, the ABA's fifth commissioner, in 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.040 the same twenty fourteen interview you heard in the last episode. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.800 At the time the ABA was formed in nineteen sixty seven, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.600 the NBA was just over two decades old and had 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:44.160 been fending off competing basketball leagues. Potential investors in the 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.479 ABA were told they could get a franchise for half 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.120 of what would cost to get an NBA team, With 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.080 the price as low as ten thousand dollars for a team, 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.719 at one point, many were scraping by. Here's Saint Louis 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.599 Spirits play by play man thrown out mL car. This 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:03.440 is a twenty footer. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.400 Kentucky eadbounds death, no joke. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.680 There were times when we would, let's say, arrive in 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.680 Denver and they're about to pass out the keys, but 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:12.880 they won't give them to us because we haven't paid 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.280 the bill from the last time, you know. And teams 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.720 take the Virginia Swires, they threatened strikes, player strikes because 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.400 the last few checks had bounced. That's kind of what 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.680 the ABA was, at least for some of the franchises. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.520 Doctor J out of the Unbelievable Doctor J. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.320 You know, if you got a check, you ran to 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.840 the bank real quick. It made a deposit, just to 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.280 make sure, make sure it held up. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.800 Make Surrey be cash. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.040 mL car was he talks about it the most. He said, Man, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.040 I had to get down there quick. I didn't want 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.760 my check to balance. I want to be the first 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.240 one in line, not the twelfth gap, because it's twelve 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.600 men on a team, so maybe by the time you 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:55.000 get to. 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.680 The twelfth guy there's a problem with his check. 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.360 The Holy Grail was an National TV contract to make 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.200 the ABA viable. One of the league's founders was NBA 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:07.840 Hall of Famer George Mikeen. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.280 There are some fires to Miken and when Big George 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.520 Gip said sixty nine sixty eight, the Laker. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.440 Who became the ABA's first commissioner. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:21.440 George, after being the foundation for creating the league ownership group, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:23.200 decided he wasn't the right. 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:24.640 Man to move the league forward. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.840 And I don't even remember who the section commissioner was, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.680 but there was one. And then the owner said, oh, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.640 we need a guy with television experience because we need 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:41.280 a television contract. So the next commissioner was a guy 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.680 named Jack Dolph who was formerly vice president of sports 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.199 Programming for CBS. 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:48.959 And everybody said, oh, this is great. 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.640 Jack's going to get us a million dollar television contract 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.400 and we're all going to die and go to heaven 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.360 and the ABA will be very successful. Well, Jack couldn't 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.800 get him a tele vision contract, and they couldn't dine 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.640 and go to heaven with all the television money they expected. 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.160 They said, we got to get somebody else in here. 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.480 Seven commissioners in nine seasons. My dad was tapped as 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.480 number five, in large part because his Kentucky Colonels were 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.760 perennial contenders for the title. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.559 Kentucky Rebounds Day, your Fishline. 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:28.280 Selling out every night fifteen to eighteen thousand fans packed 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:32.840 into Louisville's Freedom Hall to watch dan Issel, Louis Dampier 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.599 and artist Gilmore put on a show. 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.560 Gilmore setting up low inside beached Roberts to come out 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:39.760 the fleet, throw out and stores. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:45.400 My goal as commissioner was not to create a merger, 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.760 but was to create a league that would be the 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.359 best basketball league in the world. So I was a 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:57.760 logical choice to take the league forward to build a 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.920 league on its own merits, and to that spend all 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.040 of my time trying to figure out how it was 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:04.080 we could get a merger. 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:16.640 The basketball itself, as we have documented, was highly entertaining, 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.440 but another part of the ABA legacy is the show 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.600 around the game, anything to get people into the seats. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.439 Some of my dad's ideas through the years worked out 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:29.360 better than others. 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.560 One of the great promotions that I created was a 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:39.360 punkin carving contest, and the theory was that at halftime 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:44.040 we would select ten people from the stands who would 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.200 come down and carve punkins, and we would turn lights 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.400 out and the crowd would be excited by the wonderful 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.280 punkins they'd carved. Well, of course, it takes a long 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:59.280 time to carve a punkin. So we pre carved the 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.640 punkins them, so all they had to do was come 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.280 down and pull the pieces out. But we turned the 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.600 lights out and several of the people fell down with 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.600 their pumpkins, and the pumpkins splattered. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:12.720 On the floor. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.040 A bit more successful, perhaps, was the time my dad 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.120 featured a team of Playboy bunnies on the court at 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.760 halftime of a colonel's game. There were also cow milking competitions, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:34.160 the first ever Halter top night, and let's not forget 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:39.640 the famous bikini clad ball girls in Miami. Now, since 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.440 this wasn't on TV, it was really up to the 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:47.880 writers to document it all. Here's longtime basketball writer Peter VESSI. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:50.960 I don't remember anything but the cheerleader. 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:52.400 Course you don't. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.600 You know now Lucky will tell you that he thinks 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.680 that I dated a cheerleader from every city, and he's right. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.560 Peter started covering professional basketball in the nineteen seventies when 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.200 he wrote about the ABA for the New York Post, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.440 or maybe Lived it would be more accurate. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.600 After the game, we would all go out and party. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:16.200 I was going to say, you weren't getting to bed 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.120 early because of that early flight. That was not happening. 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.920 No one of the trainers. Fritz Masman taught me early 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.319 that you got to go to sleep with your clothes on. 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:32.680 Say step in the morning. 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.480 That was big. That was big, you know. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.040 So whenever you went to sleep with that night, you 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.320 were waking up with that next morning, so you know, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.880 you might get two or three hours sleep whatever. We 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:43.520 were out partying. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.960 Back to Bob Costas, who was rolling with the Saint 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:48.120 Louis Spirits. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.400 What'd you guys do when you were hanging out? 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.680 Well, yeah, sometimes we'd go to dinner together. 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.400 Sometimes we'd you know, gather in the hotel our road 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:02.320 game afterwards. I practices. I could shoot. I couldn't play. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.760 It was too small to really play. I couldn't guard anybody, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:06.840 and if I was guarded, I couldn't get a shot off. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:08.839 But if we were just shooting free throws back then 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.959 I could shoot and I would win bets. I would 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:15.240 get in three point contests and in free throw contests 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.520 with some of the guys who I knew I could be. Wow, 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.160 and then they got wise because I was taking their money. 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:22.080 Yeah. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.720 It was crazy, but crazy fun, and the sports world 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:30.400 took notice. Peter Carey, who would eventually become executive editor 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.559 of Sports Illustrated was assigned to cover the Renegade League. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:36.760 First of all, the ABA hit a three point shot, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.400 which the NBA didn't have at that time. The game 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.880 was more open in the way it was played, so 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.280 it was more running, more excitement, and so on and 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.680 so forth. A guy came out of nowhere named Julius 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.320 Serving and he became a very compelling player, and people 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:52.240 wanted to see. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.200 One of the more enduring ABA ideas is something we 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.360 see every All Star weekend, the Slam Dunk Content Test, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.960 which took place in nineteen seventy six at the ABA's 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.800 final All Star game before the merger. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.559 The judges will score on each dunk on a basis 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.280 of five to ten points. 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:14.599 Here's Doctor j. 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.920 The first was in Denver. It was an ABA idea. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.440 You know. The lineup was me and Larry Keenan, George 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:26.880 Gerb and David Thompson. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.600 The man that has turned the slam dunk into an 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.240 r got six foot six for the New York That's 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.680 the fabulous Doctor j. Julius Ervant. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.040 So didn't you start by dunking two balls and the hoop? 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.080 Isn't that how you began that. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.920 I've seen the video a few times, and I think 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.680 it was, you know, duncan two balls at the. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.680 Same time, and now the doctor goes to work. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.440 Which was something there. You know, not everybody could do that. 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.280 I mean there's funny guys who can't do it. Easy 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.480 to go one in the other and two at the 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.800 same time. It was a little bit different. But I 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.680 think the question was why a you synonymous with dunking. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.240 I think that dunk contest and dunking from the. 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.320 Foul line at the end and David missing on one 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.800 of his dunks kind of paved the way because he 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:16.040 was doing great dunks too. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.480 He was doing pirouettes from the corner. 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:23.000 And David Thompson finishing it with a trush around. Pattna 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:23.920 slammed dunk. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.720 With his leaping ability, and he was at home because 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:29.080 he played for the Nuggets. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:34.400 You know, I felt a little threatened, did Okay? 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:35.120 Yeah? 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.960 Yeah, I felt I felt I felt threatened by him. 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:38.680 I mean, you know, he. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:43.080 Thought the Skywalker was gonna maybe take that dunk title 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.760 instead of you, that nobody had the title. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.760 That's right, this was a title to be earned. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.760 Okay, tell me about the free throw line dunk. Where 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:55.480 that idea came from? 0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:02.520 You know how many times you had done that? 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:03.320 That's everyone. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:08.080 Really, I'm gonna definitely credit Converse with that one, because 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:09.960 if I didn't have the Converse, it never. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:10.520 Would have happened. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.320 And the reason and the reason I had the Converse 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:19.920 on is because I did basketball clinics for Converse for kids, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.920 and I would always end. 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.560 The clinic with a dunk from the foul. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.880 That was my exit. You know, It's like, you know, 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.000 somebody's on the stage. They danced, they got the cane 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.040 and they dance, and they danced their way into the 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.320 off the stage and they come back out for the ovation. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.760 Was just dunk your way off the court and then I. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:48.120 Leave and then I leave it and then like all 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.560 standing up on crazy and I come back out and 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:51.240 take a bound. 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.360 So cool. What did you think when you saw mj 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:57.720 do it years later? 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.720 Well, here's what happened because I was there and we're 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.679 like courtside, and Michael's knew heated battles with domin Ainsbury. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.800 Now, Michael Jordan told me he had something special. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.640 He may be trying to take off from the freefront line. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.879 I'll af Julia serving let's see what happens. 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:13.720 He kind of measured it. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.200 From there and he looked old with me, and I'm like, Poyton, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.080 do it. Go back down there and he talks about 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:22.240 this and then interviews. 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:25.520 So whatever said, go back then, So he runs back 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:27.639 and then he comes dribbling. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.919 And you know, and when he jumps, he does a 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.560 little pump. That's gotta be it. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:34.760 You know. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:36.760 Rest was history. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.400 It was derivative of the ABA's approach. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:39.960 Well. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.480 Great players like Well Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabbar were 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.879 not allowed to dunk in the NBA and dunks weren't 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.440 allowed in college. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:48.879 For that matter. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.399 The ABA allowed playground moves that made the game so exciting, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:58.000 moves popularized in places like Rucker Park, a Harlem court 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.000 that's hosted some of the greatest players to ever play 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.120 the game. Vessi coached in Rutgers Summer League. That's where 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:06.880 he first met doctor j. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.320 So Julius is coming out of college and I had 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.720 a friend of mine who played at Hofster, guy named 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.320 but Dave Brownville. I went to Hofster for a year, 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.359 played ball there for a year, left before they asked 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.719 me to leave. So I asked Dave. David was very 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.400 good friends with Julius. You know, do you think Julius 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.679 would want to play for me and the Rooker I'm 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.840 starting a team, he asked them. And he came or 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.919 coming into Rutger Park for the first time, me first 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.600 time him, and we sit on a bench to three 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.840 of us, and Julius says to me, how much am 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.359 I going to get paid? And I said, Julius, as 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.640 far as I know, nobody's getting paid in the Rucker Tournament. 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.800 And he said, okay, he said, let me think about it. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.560 So him and Dave walked around the park, came back, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.119 started leasing up the sneakers. Let's go. And so the 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:59.200 first game that he played, we played against Tiny Archibaal's 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.280 team and it was raining, so we had to go indoors. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.000 And Tiny's team was loaded with pros, just like my 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.120 team was. I had Charlie, I had Julius, I had 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.960 Billy Paul, sayed Ali Taylor. But he did too. He 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.479 had Austin Carr, you know the year before, he had 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.720 Dave Cowen's rookie year. Wow, you know loaded. Each team 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.359 was loaded, and they beat us indoors. But on one 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:29.119 play in the first half, Julius is driving down the sideline, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.560 right sideline and he takes off. There are two people 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:37.280 in front of him. One guy was Marvin Roberts, remember him. 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.800 He was like six ' nine. So Julius takes off 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.480 from about fifteen feet twenty feet away from the hoop 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.800 and we're like, what is this. He goes over both 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.720 of the tough and dunks wow. And we had never 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:54.600 ever seen anything like that. 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:59.320 The Rucka Park happened before the ABA. I mean, I 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.240 actually my junior year of college, before training camp started. 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.960 You know, Charlie Scott, who's the leader and the captain 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.800 of the Virginia Squires, he and Fatty Taylor, he invited 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.080 me to come and play in the Rutger and when 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.600 we were playing for Peter Vesti's team, you know, one 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.040 of the things that I really love to do was 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.080 going to dunk the ball. So when I got to 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.639 the rugby League, you know, it was I mean, my 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:28.399 jaw dropped. Players were playing at the highest level of 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:29.600 playground basketball. 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.520 What does it feel like to dunk a basketball? 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.919 Because you know, ninety nine point nine percent of the 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.560 population has never. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.480 Been I never felt it, you know what I mean? 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.480 You never climbed the ladder and just you never never 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:53.359 climbed up the steps. That Okay, it's probably be hard 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.080 to hold the ball one hand too. 0:20:55.119 --> 0:21:02.680 Right, Yeah, yeah, So I have made a hole in 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.920 one of golf second year when I was playing, and 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.000 holding one's a lot harder than dunking the ball. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:14.800 It exceeds the experience of dunking the ball. And dunking 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.480 the ball is kind of parallel. If anything, it might 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.560