1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: If you love basketball, there's a good chance you love 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: movies about basketball. I even had the chance to be 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: in one, like Mike. You've probably seen it. It's about 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: a kid named Calvin Cambridge played by Lil bow Wow, 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: who comes across a mysterious pair of old sneakers inscribed 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: with the faded initials MJ and. 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: The rest Ah. Well, you should watch it. 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: Here's one of my scenes which we shot on the 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: set of the NBA on NBC. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: The big story in the NBA, Calvin Cambridge, the four 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 3: foot eight dynamo, has now signed a lucrative contract with 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: the Knights, and no wonder after he led them to 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 3: have come from behind win over the Spurs with twenty seven. 14 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: Points a kid was unbelievable. 15 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: Another one of my favorite hoops movies is a send 16 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: up of something. 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: A little closer to reality, at least for me. 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 4: Very successful and this ninth Annual ABA All Star Game Shining. 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Games Semi Pro starring Will Ferrell, set in nineteen seventy six, 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: the final year of the American Basketball Association in semi pro, 21 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: the fictional Flint Tropics are doing. 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 2: Whatever they can to survive a merger. 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: With the NBA despite having the worst record in the league. 24 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: Will Ferrell's character is a team owner, head coach, starting 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: power forward and pregame analyst Scott Armstrong wrote the film, 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: they had. 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 5: To compete with the NBA, which was like impossible for 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 5: them at the time. In order to compete with them, 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 5: they had to like step up, you know, the showmanship 30 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 5: and step up the excitement of the game. So they 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 5: added things like the three point line. They added the 32 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 5: dunk contest, They had like a rainbow ball to play with, 33 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 5: and like gave out prizes and had halftime shows. 34 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: What makes Semi Pro fun for me is that many 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: of the teams actually existed. The characters are based on 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: real people, and some of the crazier stun like bear wrestling, 37 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: those actually happened. 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 6: In the ABN the Destroyer wrestled Victor the Bear four 39 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 6: hundred pound Victor the Bear. 40 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 5: I saw a charity event in pure Illinois, and like 41 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 5: the early nineties, like I happened to see like people 42 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 5: like were allowed to wrestle a bear for charity or whatever, 43 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 5: and like now you would never ever ever be allowed 44 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 5: to do that, but they used to do stuff like 45 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 5: that in the seventies, and so that kind of inspired 46 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 5: that scene where like Will Ferrell would wrestle a bear 47 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 5: at halftime, we worked to a real grizzly bear and 48 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 5: we were in the gym with like a trained grizzly 49 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 5: bear for half of it. 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 7: Of course, like Will was never in danger or. 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 5: Anything, but there was one moment where there's this guy 52 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 5: just like blowing a whistle and like the bear was 53 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 5: not listening to the whistle and I'm like watching this 54 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 5: and he's going like like that, and then the trainer's 55 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 5: just like everyone get in the bathroom, and like we 56 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 5: all had to like go into the bathroom of the 57 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 5: of this like stadium that we built, and we're like 58 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 5: hiding in there with like the door. When you're in 59 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 5: the ring with that bear, you got to keep them 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 5: busy or he's able to just walk away from me 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 5: and wander to ring and back to his cage. So 62 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 5: the bear just wandered around the stadium by himself and 63 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 5: not eat anybody. 64 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 8: It was hilarious. 65 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: Oh my god, how did the bear finally get to 66 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: where it was supposed to go? 67 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 8: I don't know. 68 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 5: He just started like listening again, and like we're and 69 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 5: of course, like we need to get like a certain shot, 70 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 5: so we're like, can we just. 71 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 9: Do one more? I'm like, I don't know. 72 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 5: Man, Like it's like like it's like that balance of 73 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 5: like will the director get eaten? 74 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 8: How bad do we need the shot? 75 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: The film captures the essence of the ABA players, coaches, 76 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: and executives like my dad, Mike Storren, a gang of 77 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: ambitious dreamers who loved basketball and were determined to be 78 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: part of the NBA. Was there anyone real that you 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: modeled some of your characters after got Gae? 80 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 5: There's some moments, you know, like trading for a washing machine, 81 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 5: like when Monix got traded for what really happened? I mean, 82 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 5: there are kind of amalgamations of like types, you know 83 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 5: what I mean. So I can't say it was like 84 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 5: someone you know, but like again, I know it's a ridiculous, 85 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 5: silly movie, but like at the heart of it, there 86 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 5: is sort of like being the best you could possibly be. 87 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: I'm just so happy that it exists, that the film exists, 88 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: because I think that so many people and really my 89 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: motivation for doing this podcast was, you know, not only 90 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: because I grew up around the ABA, but I was like, 91 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: I know that there's so many people who watch a 92 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: game today that have no idea. They don't know that 93 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: this took place. They don't know where all this came from. 94 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 8: I can't believe it happened. 95 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 5: It really didn't happen. It really was insane, like these 96 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 5: guys traveling on buses and like dunking, like doing stuff 97 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 5: in a way that was like to half filled stadiums. 98 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 8: There's a freedom to it. 99 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 5: It's like seventies America, Free Love, Free basketball. 100 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: Every movie has an ending, and so did the ABA. 101 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: It was over in nineteen seventy five when a fraction 102 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: of the team left from the league's heyday made their 103 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: way into the NBA. It's the journey to get there 104 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: that is part of the screenplay of my life, and 105 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: this podcast documents all the plot twists, storylines and characters 106 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: along the way. 107 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Storm and this is NBA DNA Episode two, The. 108 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 10: Merger Waken out last Lloyd af here push it from 109 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 10: you to Brown. He wants to tuck you to get 110 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 10: it up quickly. Now as the end of the theory 111 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 10: that think that on the post to go more he 112 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 10: got it into position. 113 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 11: Throughout the history of the ABA, there was always an 114 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 11: underlying belief on the part of certainly every owner that 115 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 11: we should merge with the NBA. 116 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 6: Danny will only here in Manhattan. 117 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 8: The Lakers keep up the pressure. 118 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 11: The issue was that if we can create a merger 119 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 11: with the NBA, we will then become one big, happy family. 120 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 11: Our franchises will be very valuable, and we will be 121 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 11: economic and psychological success. So every time a new owner 122 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 11: came into the league, and there were a lot of them, 123 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 11: one of the things that they believed was, I will 124 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 11: create a merger. 125 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: That's my dad, Mike Storren, the ABA's fifth commissioner, in 126 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: the same twenty fourteen interview you heard in the last episode. 127 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: At the time the ABA was formed in nineteen sixty seven, 128 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: the NBA was just over two decades old and had 129 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: been fending off competing basketball leagues. Potential investors in the 130 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: ABA were told they could get a franchise for half 131 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: of what would cost to get an NBA team, With 132 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: the price as low as ten thousand dollars for a team, 133 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: at one point, many were scraping by. Here's Saint Louis 134 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: Spirits play by play man thrown out mL car. This 135 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: is a twenty footer. 136 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 8: Kentucky eadbounds death, no joke. 137 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 12: There were times when we would, let's say, arrive in 138 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 12: Denver and they're about to pass out the keys, but 139 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 12: they won't give them to us because we haven't paid 140 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 12: the bill from the last time, you know. And teams 141 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 12: take the Virginia Swires, they threatened strikes, player strikes because 142 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 12: the last few checks had bounced. That's kind of what 143 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 12: the ABA was, at least for some of the franchises. 144 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 7: Doctor J out of the Unbelievable Doctor J. 145 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 13: You know, if you got a check, you ran to 146 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 13: the bank real quick. It made a deposit, just to 147 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 13: make sure, make sure it held up. 148 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: Make Surrey be cash. 149 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 13: mL car was he talks about it the most. He said, Man, 150 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 13: I had to get down there quick. I didn't want 151 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 13: my check to balance. I want to be the first 152 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 13: one in line, not the twelfth gap, because it's twelve 153 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 13: men on a team, so maybe by the time you 154 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 13: get to. 155 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 8: The twelfth guy there's a problem with his check. 156 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: The Holy Grail was an National TV contract to make 157 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: the ABA viable. One of the league's founders was NBA 158 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: Hall of Famer George Mikeen. 159 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 4: There are some fires to Miken and when Big George 160 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 4: Gip said sixty nine sixty eight, the Laker. 161 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Who became the ABA's first commissioner. 162 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 11: George, after being the foundation for creating the league ownership group, 163 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 11: decided he wasn't the right. 164 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 9: Man to move the league forward. 165 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 11: And I don't even remember who the section commissioner was, 166 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 11: but there was one. And then the owner said, oh, 167 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 11: we need a guy with television experience because we need 168 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 11: a television contract. So the next commissioner was a guy 169 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 11: named Jack Dolph who was formerly vice president of sports 170 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 11: Programming for CBS. 171 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 9: And everybody said, oh, this is great. 172 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 11: Jack's going to get us a million dollar television contract 173 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 11: and we're all going to die and go to heaven 174 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 11: and the ABA will be very successful. Well, Jack couldn't 175 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 11: get him a tele vision contract, and they couldn't dine 176 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 11: and go to heaven with all the television money they expected. 177 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 9: They said, we got to get somebody else in here. 178 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: Seven commissioners in nine seasons. My dad was tapped as 179 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: number five, in large part because his Kentucky Colonels were 180 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: perennial contenders for the title. 181 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 13: Kentucky Rebounds Day, your Fishline. 182 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: Selling out every night fifteen to eighteen thousand fans packed 183 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: into Louisville's Freedom Hall to watch dan Issel, Louis Dampier 184 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,599 Speaker 1: and artist Gilmore put on a show. 185 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 4: Gilmore setting up low inside beached Roberts to come out 186 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 4: the fleet, throw out and stores. 187 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 11: My goal as commissioner was not to create a merger, 188 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 11: but was to create a league that would be the 189 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,359 Speaker 11: best basketball league in the world. So I was a 190 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 11: logical choice to take the league forward to build a 191 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 11: league on its own merits, and to that spend all 192 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 11: of my time trying to figure out how it was 193 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 11: we could get a merger. 194 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: The basketball itself, as we have documented, was highly entertaining, 195 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: but another part of the ABA legacy is the show 196 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: around the game, anything to get people into the seats. 197 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: Some of my dad's ideas through the years worked out 198 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: better than others. 199 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 11: One of the great promotions that I created was a 200 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 11: punkin carving contest, and the theory was that at halftime 201 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 11: we would select ten people from the stands who would 202 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 11: come down and carve punkins, and we would turn lights 203 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 11: out and the crowd would be excited by the wonderful 204 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 11: punkins they'd carved. Well, of course, it takes a long 205 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 11: time to carve a punkin. So we pre carved the 206 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 11: punkins them, so all they had to do was come 207 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 11: down and pull the pieces out. But we turned the 208 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 11: lights out and several of the people fell down with 209 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 11: their pumpkins, and the pumpkins splattered. 210 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 9: On the floor. 211 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: A bit more successful, perhaps, was the time my dad 212 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: featured a team of Playboy bunnies on the court at 213 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: halftime of a colonel's game. There were also cow milking competitions, 214 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: the first ever Halter top night, and let's not forget 215 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: the famous bikini clad ball girls in Miami. Now, since 216 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: this wasn't on TV, it was really up to the 217 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: writers to document it all. Here's longtime basketball writer Peter VESSI. 218 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 7: I don't remember anything but the cheerleader. 219 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: Course you don't. 220 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 7: You know now Lucky will tell you that he thinks 221 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 7: that I dated a cheerleader from every city, and he's right. 222 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: Peter started covering professional basketball in the nineteen seventies when 223 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: he wrote about the ABA for the New York Post, 224 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: or maybe Lived it would be more accurate. 225 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 7: After the game, we would all go out and party. 226 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: I was going to say, you weren't getting to bed 227 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: early because of that early flight. That was not happening. 228 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: No one of the trainers. Fritz Masman taught me early 229 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: that you got to go to sleep with your clothes on. 230 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 2: Say step in the morning. 231 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 9: That was big. That was big, you know. 232 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 7: So whenever you went to sleep with that night, you 233 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 7: were waking up with that next morning, so you know, 234 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 7: you might get two or three hours sleep whatever. We 235 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 7: were out partying. 236 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: Back to Bob Costas, who was rolling with the Saint 237 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Louis Spirits. 238 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: What'd you guys do when you were hanging out? 239 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 8: Well, yeah, sometimes we'd go to dinner together. 240 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 12: Sometimes we'd you know, gather in the hotel our road 241 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 12: game afterwards. I practices. I could shoot. I couldn't play. 242 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 12: It was too small to really play. I couldn't guard anybody, 243 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 12: and if I was guarded, I couldn't get a shot off. 244 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 12: But if we were just shooting free throws back then 245 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 12: I could shoot and I would win bets. I would 246 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 12: get in three point contests and in free throw contests 247 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 12: with some of the guys who I knew I could be. Wow, 248 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 12: and then they got wise because I was taking their money. 249 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 7: Yeah. 250 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: It was crazy, but crazy fun, and the sports world 251 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: took notice. Peter Carey, who would eventually become executive editor 252 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated was assigned to cover the Renegade League. 253 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 6: First of all, the ABA hit a three point shot, 254 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 6: which the NBA didn't have at that time. The game 255 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 6: was more open in the way it was played, so 256 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 6: it was more running, more excitement, and so on and 257 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 6: so forth. A guy came out of nowhere named Julius 258 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 6: Serving and he became a very compelling player, and people 259 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 6: wanted to see. 260 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: One of the more enduring ABA ideas is something we 261 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: see every All Star weekend, the Slam Dunk Content Test, 262 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: which took place in nineteen seventy six at the ABA's 263 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: final All Star game before the merger. 264 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 4: The judges will score on each dunk on a basis 265 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 4: of five to ten points. 266 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 2: Here's Doctor j. 267 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 13: The first was in Denver. It was an ABA idea. 268 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 13: You know. The lineup was me and Larry Keenan, George 269 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 13: Gerb and David Thompson. 270 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 4: The man that has turned the slam dunk into an 271 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 4: r got six foot six for the New York That's 272 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 4: the fabulous Doctor j. Julius Ervant. 273 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: So didn't you start by dunking two balls and the hoop? 274 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: Isn't that how you began that. 275 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 14: I've seen the video a few times, and I think 276 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 14: it was, you know, duncan two balls at the. 277 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 4: Same time, and now the doctor goes to work. 278 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 13: Which was something there. You know, not everybody could do that. 279 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 13: I mean there's funny guys who can't do it. Easy 280 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 13: to go one in the other and two at the 281 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 13: same time. It was a little bit different. But I 282 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 13: think the question was why a you synonymous with dunking. 283 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 8: I think that dunk contest and dunking from the. 284 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 13: Foul line at the end and David missing on one 285 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 13: of his dunks kind of paved the way because he 286 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 13: was doing great dunks too. 287 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 8: He was doing pirouettes from the corner. 288 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 4: And David Thompson finishing it with a trush around. Pattna 289 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 4: slammed dunk. 290 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 13: With his leaping ability, and he was at home because 291 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 13: he played for the Nuggets. 292 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 8: You know, I felt a little threatened, did Okay? 293 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 13: Yeah? 294 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 8: Yeah, I felt I felt I felt threatened by him. 295 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 8: I mean, you know, he. 296 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: Thought the Skywalker was gonna maybe take that dunk title 297 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: instead of you, that nobody had the title. 298 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 8: That's right, this was a title to be earned. 299 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: Okay, tell me about the free throw line dunk. Where 300 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: that idea came from? 301 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: You know how many times you had done that? 302 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 4: That's everyone. 303 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 13: Really, I'm gonna definitely credit Converse with that one, because 304 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 13: if I didn't have the Converse, it never. 305 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 8: Would have happened. 306 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 13: And the reason and the reason I had the Converse 307 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 13: on is because I did basketball clinics for Converse for kids, 308 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 13: and I would always end. 309 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 8: The clinic with a dunk from the foul. 310 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 13: That was my exit. You know, It's like, you know, 311 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 13: somebody's on the stage. They danced, they got the cane 312 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 13: and they dance, and they danced their way into the 313 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 13: off the stage and they come back out for the ovation. 314 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: Was just dunk your way off the court and then I. 315 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 8: Leave and then I leave it and then like all 316 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 8: standing up on crazy and I come back out and 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 8: take a bound. 318 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 2: So cool. What did you think when you saw mj 319 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: do it years later? 320 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 13: Well, here's what happened because I was there and we're 321 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 13: like courtside, and Michael's knew heated battles with domin Ainsbury. 322 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: Now, Michael Jordan told me he had something special. 323 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 10: He may be trying to take off from the freefront line. 324 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 8: I'll af Julia serving let's see what happens. 325 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 9: He kind of measured it. 326 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 8: From there and he looked old with me, and I'm like, Poyton, 327 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 8: do it. Go back down there and he talks about 328 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 8: this and then interviews. 329 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 13: So whatever said, go back then, So he runs back 330 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 13: and then he comes dribbling. 331 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 8: And you know, and when he jumps, he does a 332 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 8: little pump. That's gotta be it. 333 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 13: You know. 334 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 8: Rest was history. 335 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 2: It was derivative of the ABA's approach. 336 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 12: Well. 337 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: Great players like Well Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul Jabbar were 338 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: not allowed to dunk in the NBA and dunks weren't 339 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: allowed in college. 340 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 2: For that matter. 341 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: The ABA allowed playground moves that made the game so exciting, 342 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: moves popularized in places like Rucker Park, a Harlem court 343 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: that's hosted some of the greatest players to ever play 344 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: the game. Vessi coached in Rutgers Summer League. That's where 345 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: he first met doctor j. 346 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 7: So Julius is coming out of college and I had 347 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 7: a friend of mine who played at Hofster, guy named 348 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 7: but Dave Brownville. I went to Hofster for a year, 349 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 7: played ball there for a year, left before they asked 350 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 7: me to leave. So I asked Dave. David was very 351 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 7: good friends with Julius. You know, do you think Julius 352 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 7: would want to play for me and the Rooker I'm 353 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 7: starting a team, he asked them. And he came or 354 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 7: coming into Rutger Park for the first time, me first 355 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 7: time him, and we sit on a bench to three 356 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 7: of us, and Julius says to me, how much am 357 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 7: I going to get paid? And I said, Julius, as 358 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 7: far as I know, nobody's getting paid in the Rucker Tournament. 359 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 7: And he said, okay, he said, let me think about it. 360 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 7: So him and Dave walked around the park, came back, 361 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 7: started leasing up the sneakers. Let's go. And so the 362 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 7: first game that he played, we played against Tiny Archibaal's 363 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 7: team and it was raining, so we had to go indoors. 364 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 7: And Tiny's team was loaded with pros, just like my 365 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 7: team was. I had Charlie, I had Julius, I had 366 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 7: Billy Paul, sayed Ali Taylor. But he did too. He 367 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 7: had Austin Carr, you know the year before, he had 368 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 7: Dave Cowen's rookie year. Wow, you know loaded. Each team 369 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 7: was loaded, and they beat us indoors. But on one 370 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 7: play in the first half, Julius is driving down the sideline, 371 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 7: right sideline and he takes off. There are two people 372 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 7: in front of him. One guy was Marvin Roberts, remember him. 373 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 7: He was like six ' nine. So Julius takes off 374 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 7: from about fifteen feet twenty feet away from the hoop 375 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 7: and we're like, what is this. He goes over both 376 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 7: of the tough and dunks wow. And we had never 377 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 7: ever seen anything like that. 378 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 13: The Rucka Park happened before the ABA. I mean, I 379 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 13: actually my junior year of college, before training camp started. 380 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 13: You know, Charlie Scott, who's the leader and the captain 381 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 13: of the Virginia Squires, he and Fatty Taylor, he invited 382 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 13: me to come and play in the Rutger and when 383 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 13: we were playing for Peter Vesti's team, you know, one 384 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 13: of the things that I really love to do was 385 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 13: going to dunk the ball. So when I got to 386 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 13: the rugby League, you know, it was I mean, my 387 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 13: jaw dropped. Players were playing at the highest level of 388 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 13: playground basketball. 389 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: What does it feel like to dunk a basketball? 390 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: Because you know, ninety nine point nine percent of the 391 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: population has never. 392 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 8: Been I never felt it, you know what I mean? 393 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 13: You never climbed the ladder and just you never never 394 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 13: climbed up the steps. That Okay, it's probably be hard 395 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 13: to hold the ball one hand too. 396 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 15: Right, Yeah, yeah, So I have made a hole in 397 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 15: one of golf second year when I was playing, and 398 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 15: holding one's a lot harder than dunking the ball. 399 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 13: It exceeds the experience of dunking the ball. And dunking 400 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 13: the ball is kind of parallel. If anything, it might 401 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 13: be knocking it out of the park on a given 402 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 13: day because in the course of the game, you know 403 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 13: there's going to be a certain number of home runs 404 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 13: or whatever when you knock it out the park, you know, 405 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 13: dunking the balls like knock it out the park. You know, 406 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,719 Speaker 13: come in and you know there's going to be some 407 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 13: kind of resistance or maybe not today's game. 408 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 8: But. 409 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 13: Somebody there. There was always somebody in my era, in 410 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 13: the previous era. There's always somebody there trying to knock 411 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 13: your teeth out or trying to put you put you 412 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 13: on the ground and put you in your place. 413 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 16: And my place is here in your chest, dunk in 414 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 16: his basketball. 415 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 8: That's my place. 416 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 2: Is what's your favorite dunk? Do you have a favorite? 417 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 8: So Elvin Hayes was great basketball. 418 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 4: Dennis Aufrey at six against Delvin Hays Hayes at six ' nine, 419 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 4: and you see Larry Wright coming up whether it's moving. 420 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 14: Two year eleven Hall of Famer earned his kudos, and 421 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 14: the only floor he had from my perspective, was when 422 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 14: he defended the basket. 423 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 8: You jump in the air, you have both hands up 424 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 8: in the air, and I saw him. 425 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 13: This time and time again. So we're playing the Bullets, 426 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 13: Washington Bullets, and I'm I'm coming off the wing and 427 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 13: I get around Bobby Dandridge and Elvin's back there defending 428 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 13: the basket. 429 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 8: To this so it looked like gold posts. 430 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 16: Right when you're playing when you're playing football, and you 431 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 16: got gold posts right, So that was the goal post defense. 432 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 8: I end up chest to chest. 433 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 13: I actually feel his chest against my chest and we're 434 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 13: both in the air, so. 435 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 17: With chest to chess and I'm coming with my right 436 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 17: hand and I move it over to in between the 437 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 17: goal posts and then I dunked the ball and the whole. 438 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 8: Capital Senate gets quiet. It was like because that was 439 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 8: their guy. But that moment goes down with me. 440 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 13: Is probably the best endgame dunk that I ever had 441 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 13: because you know, he's six foot nine, six ten. 442 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 8: And he's strong. 443 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 13: And then it happened, and then it was punctuated. 444 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 8: I love it, and dunk isn't greater unless it's punctuate. 445 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: Peter Carrey wrote the first national article about Julius. 446 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 6: I say that this guy's an emerging figure. We've got 447 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 6: to put him on the cover, right. So I'm writing 448 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 6: the story and it actually approached Julius before the game 449 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 6: and said, do you feel comfortable dunking in warm ups? 450 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 6: Which I knew he did, but I didn't want to 451 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 6: ask him to do something you want to do. And 452 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,239 Speaker 6: he said yes, And I said, okay, we're probably going 453 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 6: to have a photographer shooting you while you're dunking in practice, 454 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 6: because I want a picture of your dunking. He says, okay. 455 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 6: So the teams come out on the floor and there's 456 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 6: no Julius. Oh, and I'm sitting scratching my head. I'm 457 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 6: sort of standing behind the nets bench and Julius isn't there, 458 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 6: and they're they're doing all their shooting and stuff. And 459 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 6: then finally over in the corner of the stands on 460 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 6: the opposite side, I see Julius is talking to a 461 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 6: guy and a little kid in the stands. I don't 462 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 6: know what the hell's going on. Anyway, So time passes 463 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 6: and the pregame warmups have ended and he comes loping 464 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 6: across the floor. He doesn't even go to his menk. 465 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 6: He comes directly to me and he said, I'm sorry, 466 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 6: but that man up there is a rabbi from I 467 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 6: think Buffalo, and he's brought his son down here to 468 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 6: me play as a bar Mitzer present. So I thought 469 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 6: I had to, you know, pay some attention. I said, okay, 470 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 6: he said, but don't worry, I'll get you dunk in 471 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 6: the first quarter. 472 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 8: I love it. 473 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 6: A few minutes into the first quarter, steals the pass, 474 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 6: goes down the floor, takes off it about the foul line. 475 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: He had a kind of a very ari. 476 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 6: Afro and so when he was really going fast, it 477 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 6: sort of got swept back a little bit and he's like, 478 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 6: you know, a foot above the basket, coming down really hard. 479 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 6: And that ended up being on the cover of the magazine. 480 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 8: Wow, and he willed it. 481 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: That is incredible. 482 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: So why was this incredible talent in the ABA instead 483 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: of the NBA. Well, that had a lot to do 484 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,239 Speaker 1: with my dad, who helped create what was known as 485 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: the hardship Rule, enabling doctor j to play as a 486 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: pro in the ABA after his junior year in college, 487 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: something the NBA did not allow. 488 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 13: You know, stepfather work for the sanitation department and he 489 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 13: made about ten. 490 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 8: To fifteen thousand dollars. The two of them together probably 491 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 8: made ten to fifteen thousand dollars, right, So the economics 492 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 8: of it were off the charts, and they had a 493 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 8: caveat where they were paid over seven years. So it 494 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 8: was fire for two thousand dollars, but you get paid 495 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 8: over seven years, so you basically making like seventy two 496 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 8: thousand dollars a year. I wasn't making anything in college, 497 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 8: so I called my mom and we had a heart 498 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 8: to heart and she said, well, you only one year 499 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 8: away from graduating, and you know, we will be very 500 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 8: proud of you if you graduated, and if you promise 501 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 8: me you're going to graduate, then do what you want 502 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 8: to do. 503 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: Julius signed a four year, five hundred thousand dollars contract 504 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: and years later he did graduate in nineteen eighty three. Now, 505 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,479 Speaker 1: of course, sits the norm for players to leave college 506 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: early or skip it all together, as in the case 507 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: of Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, and Kevin Garnett. But it 508 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: actually took a lawsuit for the hardship rule really. 509 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 4: Truly all right gifted, greaceful athletes. 510 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 9: Here's Haywood Heywood. 511 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: Spencer Haywood was the Denver Nuggets first ever MVP, long 512 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: before Nikola Jokic, and in nineteen seventy he sued the 513 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: NBA for barring him from signing a six year, one 514 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: and a half million dollar contract with the Seattle SuperSonics. 515 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: The case went all the way to the Supreme Court. 516 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: Peter Vessi covered the story. 517 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 7: So Spencer Haywood did play college ball. He didn't come 518 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 7: right out of high school, you know, like Moses did, 519 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 7: or Toby did, or many others. 520 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 12: With the thirteenth pick in the nineteen ninety six NBA Draft, 521 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 12: the Charlotte Hornets select Tovey Bryant from Lowerman. 522 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 7: He winds up signing with Denver in the ABA, and 523 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 7: he has a sensational rookie year, MVP of this MVP 524 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 7: of that rookie of the year year, top score, top rebound. 525 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 7: I mean, you know, he's out of control. At the 526 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 7: end of the year. The NBA comes courting and Seattle. 527 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 7: Sam Schildan was the owner, so Denver wouldn't do anything 528 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 7: of his contract, and Seattle was willing to bring him 529 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 7: into the NBA right And so the NBA said, no, 530 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 7: we don't allow underclassmen to come until their class graduates. 531 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 7: So there would have been another year for Haywood. He 532 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 7: was never in the NBA draft, so Seattle felt that 533 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 7: they could take him, and so it went to court, 534 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 7: and it went to the Supreme Court, and he wins it. 535 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: Here's Bob Costas. 536 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 12: So eventually the hardship rule comes into play, which now 537 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 12: is gone where you had to at least establish some 538 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 12: kind of hardship. Now it doesn't make any difference. Your 539 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 12: family can be millionaires. If you want to come out 540 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 12: directly from high school or come out after one year 541 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 12: as so many do now from college. 542 00:28:59,600 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 8: You can. 543 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 7: With the first pick in the two thousand and three 544 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 7: NBA Draft, the Cleveland Cavaliers select Lebron James. 545 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 12: When we look back on it and think about what 546 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 12: even the least the players makes now, the last guy 547 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 12: on the bench, it all seems so trivial. But these 548 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 12: guys had to fight for the right to have free agency, 549 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 12: and the right to have some sort of control over 550 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 12: their own lives and careers, and Spencer Haywood was kind 551 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 12: of at the forefront of that. And I think what's 552 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 12: lost to history largely is what a good player he was. 553 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 8: He had a really good player. 554 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 11: Every year in the existence of the ABA, there was 555 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 11: a competition for players coming out of college. So each 556 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 11: year in college and each year of the pass there 557 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 11: are always great players leaving college and having to make 558 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 11: a choice between the NBA. 559 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 9: And the ABA. 560 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 11: There was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. There was Dan Essel, there 561 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 11: was Artist Gilmore, there was Bill Walton Siel. 562 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 9: Again, thatsl just all over the place tonight. 563 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 11: Certainly, one of the greatest players to ever play at 564 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 11: the University of Kentucky was Dan Issel. Dan was number 565 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 11: one draft choice of the Detroit team. But tell me 566 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 11: who would want to go to Detroit and you know 567 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 11: the snow when you could stay at home with all 568 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 11: your friends at play at Freedom Hall. 569 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 9: So Dan signed with US. 570 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: Doctor j Artist Gilmore, and Dan Issel were all huge 571 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: wins for the ABA. But then there's the one that 572 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: got away for my dad, that was lou Al Cinder. 573 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 4: Kareem what a. 574 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 17: Big pressure shot. 575 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: Later known as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. 576 00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 11: The League appointed me to put together a strategy for 577 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 11: signing lou Elsinder, and as a result, in order to 578 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 11: keep this whole project a secret, I named it Operation Kingfish, 579 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 11: examining who he was, where he grew up, what his 580 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 11: history was, what was his relationship to his agent, what 581 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 11: was his relationship to UCLA, what were the psychological things 582 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 11: that could impact his decision. I kept the document in 583 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 11: my desk called Operation Kingfish, and there was an employee 584 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 11: who got his hands on that. I suspected this, and 585 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 11: so the document in my desk wasn't valid, and I 586 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 11: put a document in there that said we'd signed him, 587 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 11: and the person before being fired passed the information onto 588 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 11: the NBA that we had an operation and that we 589 00:31:58,360 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 11: had already signed. 590 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: Another tale from the ABA's oral history. Do you remember 591 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: the whole Operation Kingfish thing with Kareem ad Bill Jabbar. 592 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: Do you know the story of the ABA trying to 593 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: get lou Elsender? 594 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 7: Well, yeah, of course, I mean because he was drafted 595 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 7: by the Nets right, and he was drafted by Milwaukee, right, 596 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 7: and so he said, and he was obviously serious, I'll 597 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 7: accept one bid from each team and that's it. And 598 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 7: the Nets lowballed them. Now they tried to come back 599 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 7: and make them another offer, and he said no. Years later, 600 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 7: this is fact I heard from Ray Patterson, who was 601 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 7: the president of Milwaukee at the time. So look before 602 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 7: I go there. So the Nets, of course, the whole 603 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 7: league was willing to pool their resources to get out there, 604 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 7: so they had the money. Then if Ray tells me 605 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 7: that the NBA pooled its resources also, and I never 606 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 7: knew that at the time when I was writing about it, 607 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 7: I wish I had. 608 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 18: He said, yeah, we couldn't afford to pay you know 609 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 18: what we paid. So it was a you know, it 610 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 18: was it was a group It was a group issue 611 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 18: on both sides of the of the of the Ledger. 612 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 613 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: No, I mean, I just, oh, I don't know. 614 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: My dad used to love telling this story and he's like, 615 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: George Miken had a million dollars of cash and a 616 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: briefcase and was so convinced that Louel Sinder was going 617 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: to come to the ABA that I didn't give him 618 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: the money and left town. And then El Sinder took 619 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: the money and went. Now I don't know that any 620 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: of that is true. Though I want to say, I 621 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: have no idea. 622 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 7: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, you don't believe your father. 623 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 2: Well, he's pretty good at spending toil. 624 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 7: I don't know. I think it was true. I think 625 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 7: there must have been some truth to that. 626 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: By the mid seventies, it became evident that it was 627 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: in everyone's best interest to forge some sort of merger. 628 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: The NBA had grown from nine franchises to eighteen and 629 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: was looking to get stronger. 630 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 2: Here's my dad. 631 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 11: With the progression of time, not getting a big television contract, 632 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 11: with the economic failure of many teams, and the escalating 633 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 11: price for players, having ownership in the league became increasingly difficult. 634 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 11: As the ownership became conversant with the NBA ownership, a 635 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 11: merger became a reality, and four teams did in fact 636 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 11: merge with the NBA. 637 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: Those teams were the Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, San Antonio Spurs, and. 638 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 2: New York Nets. Here's Peter Carry. 639 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 6: I think the NBA finally realized that, better than fighting 640 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 6: this war, well, we'll get together with these guys. They 641 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 6: have pieces of terrif for already marked out. They have 642 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 6: some pretty attractive players, and the ABA teams as I recall, 643 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 6: I don't think the ABA teams did all that badly 644 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 6: right from the gun. 645 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: How about players specifically like Doctor J, George Gervin, Moses Malone. 646 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: I mean, these are among the greatest players of all time. 647 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 6: I mean, is he a human highlight film or is he? 648 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 13: Yes? He is. 649 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: How do you think the ABA contributed to their development? 650 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 6: Well, Moses is such an allone. 651 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 2: Off college but he gets it. 652 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 10: That's the bill collar job. 653 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 13: But most. 654 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 6: You can put Moses in wrestling match and the bear 655 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 6: he would have won. It gave me chance to play, 656 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 6: to really show off in a way they probably couldn't 657 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 6: of the day they arrived in the NBA. So when 658 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 6: they did get in the NBA, they were pretty fully developed. 659 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: Players had all sorts of reasons to choose one league 660 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: or the other, and for Doctor J, it was a 661 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: seminal choice central to who he would become as a player. 662 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 13: So that period, you know, being League MVP and winning 663 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 13: to championships, you know, winning seventy four, seventy six, you know, 664 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 13: winning the ABA titles during its he is having Kevin 665 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 13: Lockery as a coach, he gave me the freedom to be. 666 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: Doctor J, which meant what the freedom to be doctor 667 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: j What did that mean? 668 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 8: I think you know, you go over a game plan 669 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 8: in the locker room and then you know, sometime late 670 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 8: in the form first quarter, second quarter, third quarter, fourth 671 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 8: for the coach kind of looks at you and says, Okay, 672 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 8: we've stuck with this plan long enough, and now we're 673 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 8: down five points and I want you to do something. 674 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 13: You know, So that type of trust and you know, 675 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 13: and the team, the team rallying is okay, we got 676 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 13: a leader who's done make the right play and make 677 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 13: the right decisions out here, and whether it's him scoring 678 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 13: or getting somebody else set up, you know, the trust 679 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 13: worthiness of the feeling that this is what's going to 680 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 13: happen next, and it happens. I look back and it's 681 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 13: probably one of the better things about the ABA that 682 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 13: has stuck with me all these years. That type of 683 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 13: trust was given to me and I succeeded. 684 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: With Here's Bob Costas. 685 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: What's the most important legacy of the A B A 686 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: and your estimation? 687 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 12: First of all, fun craziness of the stories can be 688 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 12: told and some cannot. But also the three pointer, the 689 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 12: improvisational nature or just let these players be creative. Let 690 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 12: them do what their talent allows them to do, as 691 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 12: opposed to what some guy put on on the x's 692 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 12: and oh's on a chalkboard. 693 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 8: The ABA was flawed, but it was exciting. It was 694 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 8: really every night was exciting. 695 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 2: Why do you think it was flawed? Why didn't it survive? 696 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 12: In the end, they were under financed and they could 697 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 12: never get a true national television contract. You know, the 698 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 12: NBA was in most of the preferable markets for a 699 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 12: lot of folks. The ABA was just a rumor, but 700 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 12: the rumors turned out. 701 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 8: To be true. 702 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 12: You know, the skeptics just said, let's see how good 703 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 12: these guys are. The first year after the merger, half 704 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 12: of the starters in the final between Philadelphia and Portland, 705 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 12: five of the ten had played in the ABA, And 706 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 12: that first year in the All Star Game, ten of 707 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 12: the twenty four All Stars had played in the ABA. 708 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 8: That's how good the league was. 709 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: A half dozen ABA teams folded before the merger or 710 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: accepted a buyout. My family's beloved Kentucky Colonels were one 711 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: of them, while Bob costas Is Spirits of Saint Louis 712 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: cut one of the greatest business deals of all time. 713 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 12: The NBA wants to make sure that there are no 714 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 12: anti trust suits file. They've got to indemnify these others somehow, 715 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 12: And I think they led John Y Brown, who then 716 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 12: owned the Colonels buy in with Buffalo. They took care 717 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 12: of the Squire's debts in Virginia. And so the Spirits say, 718 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 12: wait a minute, if we got in, we'd be entitled 719 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 12: to a slice the TV money. 720 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 7: Right. 721 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 12: Well, the TV money then was relatively inconsequential, less than 722 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 12: a million dollars per team annually from network television. So 723 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 12: they say, how about this. There were seven ABA teams 724 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 12: at the time that the league folded. Okay, so how 725 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 12: about if we take one seventh of the total that 726 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 12: the four teams would take one seventh and the NBA 727 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 12: just wants them to go away. They say, okay, but 728 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 12: the Spirit's attorney inserts an important clause in perpetuity man, 729 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 12: and then it all explodes. Bird Magic, Jordan, the Dream Team, 730 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 12: David Stern takes it global. If they had put an 731 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 12: NBA franchise on Jupiter in the twenty third century, the 732 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 12: Silma's airs would still be collecting. But eventually, after collecting 733 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 12: hundreds of millions of dollars. On the basis of this deal, 734 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 12: the NBA came back to them for like the fifth 735 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 12: or sixth time and said, couldn't we possibly close this out? 736 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 12: So nobody infefitted from the ABA like these two dudes did. 737 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: The ABA's merger with the NBA also helped change the 738 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: course of East host basketball for decades. As Doctor j 739 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: ended up with the Philadelphia seventy six ershame. 740 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 12: Up in Walton space, and Walton said had to be 741 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 12: offense that Julius is unbelievable. 742 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 9: In a wide open situation. 743 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: Four ABA teams had to pay three point two million dollars, 744 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: but for the Nets for your team it was worse 745 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: because they were Knicks territory, so they had to pay 746 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: an additional four point eight million. And then all these 747 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: teams were kind of vying for your services, you know, Milwaukee, 748 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: in LA and Philly, and the Nets actually offered your 749 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: contract to the Knicks and returned for waiving the fee, 750 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 1: and the Knicks declined. Is that true because they wanted 751 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: the money instead of like one of the greatest players 752 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: of all time? 753 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 2: Is this is this how it went down? 754 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 13: I have no idea that I wasn't a party to 755 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 13: the conversation. 756 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 8: Wow. 757 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 13: And when it came down to the two leagues merging, 758 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 13: you know, they're like, you're not making You're making the money. 759 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 8: The top players make it, right. And so now we 760 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 8: got back into the financial discussion and the Nets wouldn't 761 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 8: do it or couldn't do it, and they still owed 762 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 8: the Knicks money. I just bought a. 763 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 13: House Long Island, upper Brookville, and you know, had started 764 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 13: a family. I didn't really want to go too far 765 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 13: from Long Island, so it was the Knicks or the 766 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 13: Sixers or maybe Washington. I wanted to be back home, 767 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 13: so I wanted to live in my house, and I 768 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 13: thought that I would be able to still commute to 769 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 13: any one of those places and be a player there 770 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 13: and live there in an apartment, you know, and do 771 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 13: part time. And that's exactly what happened. I was happy 772 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 13: with the geography because I had cousins in Philadelphia, so 773 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,879 Speaker 13: I had relatives in Philadelphia, and Long Island. 774 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 8: Was commutable bringing up for the Lord, so we thought. 775 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 13: So that first year in Philly world, be Free was 776 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 13: commuting from Brooklyn that I was commuting from Long Allan, 777 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 13: so I would spend by and pick him up. 778 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 779 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 8: Really, we come rolling in, we come rolling into practice, 780 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 8: rolling in the gays. 781 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 16: We're coming from New York, like to New Yorkers were 782 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 16: holding onto holding. 783 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 2: On to ash. 784 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 8: Oh wow. And then and then that. 785 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 13: That went for a year, and then the second years 786 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 13: he said, man, you got to move to Philly. 787 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 2: We need to. 788 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: What kind of car were you guys driving back and 789 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: forth from New York to Philly. 790 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,439 Speaker 8: I had a van. 791 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 13: It was like a you know van, customized vans in 792 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 13: those days they were they were all stricked out. 793 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 2: So it wasn't a sports car. It was a van. 794 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 13: Now, oh oh, man, it was a man and I'm 795 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 13: driven Sometimes he built other times. 796 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: As Doctor J's fame and fortune continued to grow in 797 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: the NBA, his game was now on display for all 798 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: to see and to reckon with, and he wasn't alone. 799 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: In the first All Star Game after the merger. Ten 800 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: of the twenty four players had played in the ABA, 801 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: including Doctor J, who was named the game's MVP, and 802 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: seventeen ABA players, along with two coaches, would be inducted 803 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,240 Speaker 1: into the Basketball Hall of Fame. In the front office, 804 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,479 Speaker 1: times were changing too. In nineteen seventy eight, just two 805 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: years after the merger, an ambitious young lawyer by the 806 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: name of David Stern took a job as the NBA's 807 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: general counsel. As my dad would later tell it, from 808 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: day one, everyone knew Stern was a star. 809 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 11: And as David came in and took over, David recognized 810 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 11: that professional basketball is first and foremost an entertainment vehicle, 811 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 11: and the people that are entertaining in basketball are the 812 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 11: star players. And David was one of the first people 813 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 11: to acknowledge and recognize the wide open I say, the 814 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 11: wide open style of play that the American Basketball Association 815 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 11: brought to the NBA and therefore its growth and popularity 816 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 11: throughout not only the United States but the world. 817 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: David Stern would become my mentor and everything that the 818 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: ABA brought to the table that was my father's basketball 819 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: it would shape my life for decades to come. 820 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 2: Next, on NBA DNA. 821 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 8: They had us out at them all. One day we 822 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:57,719 Speaker 8: had a couple of. 823 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 10: Players and they have a banner meet producton LOTE that's 824 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,080 Speaker 10: an elderly lady comes up, Oh my god, I love 825 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 10: you guys. 826 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 8: How do you fit in those space yifts? She thought 827 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 8: we were with Massop For some strange reason my father 828 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 8: accused of taking the year. 829 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 6: The Euston Rockets select. 830 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 2: I came elied you one. 831 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 11: It's totally the truth, because we're going keylie when I've 832 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 11: played right there in town ivers he used it. 833 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: NBA DNA with Hannah Storm is a production of iHeart Podcasts, 834 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: the NBA and Brainstorm in Productions. The show is written 835 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Hannah Storm, along with Julia 836 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: Weaver and Alex French. Our lead producer and showrunner is 837 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:00,360 Speaker 1: Julia Weaver. Our senior producers are Peter Cowder, Alex Wrench, 838 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,800 Speaker 1: and Brandon Reese. Editing and sound design by Kurt Garren 839 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: and Julia Weaver. The show's executive producers are Carmen Belmont, 840 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: Jason English, Sean Ttone, Steve Weintraup, and Jason Weikelt