Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerome Rowland. Jerry,
Speaker 1: that's j E. R. I. Yeah, for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: we've ever said that, and we get many, many variations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's mind boggling to mean that some people get
Speaker 1: it right. And Jerry's a lady. Yes, shews. We'll just
Speaker 1: go ahead and you know, get that out there. I
Speaker 1: think that most people knew that, right, most people new
Speaker 1: listeners are producers. J E. R. Right, the lady, Oh night,
Speaker 1: that's a T shirt right there. Uh okay, well we
Speaker 1: have that settled officially. If anybody ever asked, we can
Speaker 1: just send them the link to the Spanish Inquisition episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've been singing the History of the World Part one
Speaker 1: song all day. Yeah, I was gonna ask, how how
Speaker 1: shall we start this with with the song or with
Speaker 1: the Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Uh so either of
Speaker 1: mel Brooks or Monty Python. Well, they're both great to
Speaker 1: you do one and I'll do the other at the
Speaker 1: same time. The Inquisition. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Speaker 1: I watched that bit again today too, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's good. He got me l o LD. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Flying Circuits one of the great sketch shows of all time.
Speaker 1: I think I'm curious, Chuck, what percentage of l O
Speaker 1: L s do you think are actually symbolic of a
Speaker 1: real laugh out loud, like when people say that, even
Speaker 1: if it's a chuckle. Yeah, I don't know. I never
Speaker 1: say l O L though, always say like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: seen you. No, I have to dude, I've never typed
Speaker 1: l O L. That is not for any Internet shorthand.
Speaker 1: That's true. It's is so true. To find the documentations, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to find it. I didn't expect the third degree.
Speaker 1: Nobody expects the third degree. That's what my family said.
Speaker 1: We said the third degree, not the Spanish Inquisition third degree.
Speaker 1: Uh my family just left everybody alone. That must uh so, Chuck, Yes,
Speaker 1: you've heard of the Spanish Inquisition obviously, are you? Were
Speaker 1: you familiar with the actual thing, like beyond the seventies
Speaker 1: and the nineteen seventies, No, with money Python and mel Brooks. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't know a whole lot about it. Was this
Speaker 1: one was a delight to learn. Yeah, it was one
Speaker 1: of those things in history where you realize a man,
Speaker 1: it has it all. Frankly, there was more to it
Speaker 1: than just what we thought, and it's possibly misunderstood. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of controversy surrounding how uh deep it
Speaker 1: went and how bloody it got, and uh a lot
Speaker 1: of people are still duking it out. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: a that's it makes sense. Pope John Paul put it
Speaker 1: very well when he said, and I'm paraphrasing here that um, like, yes,
Speaker 1: the Inquisition happened. Yes it was super messed up. Let's
Speaker 1: find out exactly how messed up it is so the
Speaker 1: church can be fully penitent h under um, being fully informed.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't saying, like, stop making such a big
Speaker 1: deal about the inquisition everywhere, because it was a big
Speaker 1: deal because it was using, um, a court system, pretty
Speaker 1: much a perverted court system, and now the kind that's
Speaker 1: like you know, rusty and eugene like perverted meaning like
Speaker 1: twisted and grotesque. Um two route people out based on
Speaker 1: the idea that there they weren't pious enough or pious
Speaker 1: in the right ways. And even that was disingenuous because
Speaker 1: ultimately it was used to consolidate power. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: saw other remarks from historians it even more ultimately, perhaps
Speaker 1: it was a way to get money. Yeah, so power
Speaker 1: and money. I think. So the whole thing just disgusting
Speaker 1: at its core, and it's a real blemish on the
Speaker 1: history of both the Church and Europe. Um. But it
Speaker 1: did happen. But it's also possible that just how bad
Speaker 1: it was, like you're saying was was exaggerated over the years.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. We're talking specifically about the
Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition, but you can't really just talk about the
Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition. It didn't happen in a vacuum. It was
Speaker 1: part of a larger thing that the inquisition in general.
Speaker 1: Um which is basically a court system where the court
Speaker 1: is actually responsible for trying you rather than being an
Speaker 1: impartial spectator referee. Yeah, it's called the tribunal. Basically, there's
Speaker 1: no jury. It's the judge decides whether you're guilty or
Speaker 1: not and what your fate will be, right, which is
Speaker 1: kind of uneasy for the person who's being tried. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got one. Well, I think maybe a couple of
Speaker 1: inquisitive wors uh might have been at work at times,
Speaker 1: but it definitely wasn't like a jury system by any
Speaker 1: means none at all. Um. There were also some other
Speaker 1: characteristics of a UM inquisition. You were not allowed to
Speaker 1: know who is accusing you, and anyone could accuse you.
Speaker 1: You had to testify whether you wanted to or not
Speaker 1: without any help. Yeah, and like you said, anybody could
Speaker 1: accuse you. Other criminals could accuse you, family members, other
Speaker 1: other heretics. And that was the whole point of this
Speaker 1: was to root out heretics, people who UM were who
Speaker 1: held beliefs that flew in the face of church church orthodoxy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think we should get into this a little
Speaker 1: bit because there's a broad definition of heretic. Like what
Speaker 1: they could actually ring people up for was vast. You know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like your Thai Catholic or you're a non
Speaker 1: Christian atheist, like most of these people were either converts
Speaker 1: to Catholicism, you know, forced converts like Jews or Muslims,
Speaker 1: or you know, it could have been anything from bigamy
Speaker 1: to quote superstitions was one of the things. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of witches who were rooted out solicitation
Speaker 1: and this is all by the way from the archive. Um.
Speaker 1: They eventually um opened up the Secret Archives. The Catholic
Speaker 1: Church did about all this. Yeah, that's capitalized by the way,
Speaker 1: secret archives. That's a really it's a title. Um. And
Speaker 1: so they actually had percentages of the of what people
Speaker 1: were were brought in for. And like I said, most
Speaker 1: of them was because you were a different faith. But
Speaker 1: one of them was a miscellaneous two or three thousand
Speaker 1: people freemasonry, sodomy, bigamy, superstitions, basically anything that they could
Speaker 1: cook up that they wanted to cook up. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's if they wanted to and that was heresy and
Speaker 1: that was the umbrella crime that was being investigated by
Speaker 1: the inquisitions. Yeah, supposedly you had to be um. You
Speaker 1: had to be teaching these beliefs just to other people,
Speaker 1: not just simply like a quiet believer of these uh
Speaker 1: heretic things. Um. And you had to be doing it
Speaker 1: of your own free will and like not be like
Speaker 1: if you were under the influence of Satan. Hey, and
Speaker 1: you had to um still hold this belief publicly even
Speaker 1: after being corrected, even after its pointed out that what
Speaker 1: you what you believe is heresy. So you want to
Speaker 1: correct yourself yeah, so if you didn't correct, if you
Speaker 1: didn't auto correct, then uh, yeah, you're right. So let's
Speaker 1: take it back, um a little further back in the day. Uh,
Speaker 1: Christians were very much persecuted and we're thrown to the
Speaker 1: lions and were, Um there's there they were. They were
Speaker 1: very much mistreated. And apparently they kind of took that
Speaker 1: in a lot the same way that um maybe uh
Speaker 1: Pip squeak, who's bullied and then bulks up over time, Yeah,
Speaker 1: would treat being bullied. Um. The Christians did much the
Speaker 1: same thing. Either that or they had a very short memory.
Speaker 1: Because Um, after Constantine the Great converted to Christianity, he
Speaker 1: was the Roman emperor. Um, all of a sudden, the Church,
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, started to enjoy a lot of power,
Speaker 1: and that power grew and grew and grew. Um. And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, there were monarchies all over
Speaker 1: Europe that were Catholic, They considered themselves Catholic, they associated
Speaker 1: with the Catholic Church, they were in cahoots with the pope,
Speaker 1: and they they became very powerful. The Church became a
Speaker 1: very powerful institution. Um. And one of the ways that
Speaker 1: it's I did it was going to spread its power
Speaker 1: and maintain its power. Was to squash anything that was
Speaker 1: outside the purview of Catholic orthodoxy. Anything that the Pope
Speaker 1: said was not kosher was um not okay, it was heresy.
Speaker 1: And this is at the same time there are a
Speaker 1: lot of different sects of Christianity, of Catholicism, even that
Speaker 1: we're starting to gain in popularity. So things like the
Speaker 1: Illuminati came out of this um era and the cars
Speaker 1: like very spiritual uh groups that were Christian and identify
Speaker 1: as Christian but thought the Pope was corrupt, and the
Speaker 1: Pope said, or we're coming after you guys. And this
Speaker 1: was the first Inquisition. Yeah, there were even uh persecution
Speaker 1: of fellow Christians, Protestant Christians, Lutheran Christians. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily just your Jew or your Muslim. No, these were
Speaker 1: Christians initially. It wasn't until the Spanish Inquisition that Jews
Speaker 1: were targeted. It was um during the medieval or Papal
Speaker 1: Inquisition starting and I think twelve thirty one under Pope
Speaker 1: Gregory the ninth, he issued a papal bull that said, uh,
Speaker 1: we're going after heretics and we're going to use uh inquisitions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was the start, that's right, twelve thirty one,
Speaker 1: and uh, he picked the what was known as the
Speaker 1: Dominican Order, which was not Dominicans in Dominican Republic, but
Speaker 1: founded by Saint Dominic de Guzman Um. And they were
Speaker 1: apparently like super smart and really knowledgeable, and they were
Speaker 1: the people too, I guess, the a team to go
Speaker 1: about conducting this first inquisition. Right. So this was under
Speaker 1: King Ferdinand two and Queen Isabella, and it says there
Speaker 1: were secular rulers. Do you know what that means? Uh?
Speaker 1: Did they not identify as Catholic or they just that
Speaker 1: wasn't there? No, they definitely did. I think what they
Speaker 1: were saying was they weren't. It wasn't like the pope.
Speaker 1: It was they were like, Okay, they were the head
Speaker 1: of government. Okay, that makes sense, Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1: But they did identify as Catholic, and they just recently
Speaker 1: united Spain under the Catholic monarchy, and so they were saying,
Speaker 1: we need to make sure everybody else's Catholic. So let's
Speaker 1: let's start an inquisition here too, right. Plus we can
Speaker 1: collect some money, right if their found guilty, take their land.
Speaker 1: That kind of thing. Uh. So, like I said, Isabelle
Speaker 1: and Ferdinand with Pope six to the fourth uh And
Speaker 1: like you said, it was to create unity on the surface,
Speaker 1: but probably was more about power and money and um
Speaker 1: kind of just squashing any alternative alternative thought. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they were like, if you're consolidating two lands
Speaker 1: into a single kingdom, it's not like flipping a switch.
Speaker 1: You know, like there's a lot of people who have
Speaker 1: political ties and alliances on a more local level, there's
Speaker 1: like Dina's ease and clans um. The I guess Isabella
Speaker 1: and Ferdinand said, you know, a really good way to
Speaker 1: unite everybody is under the banner of Catholicism. But ultimately
Speaker 1: it was about them consolidating their power and breaking up
Speaker 1: these alliances and and to gain money because part of
Speaker 1: the inquisition was if you were accused of heresy, and
Speaker 1: if you were convicted of heresy, the church and the
Speaker 1: government would take your land and split it with the
Speaker 1: person who accused you. So it ultimately became this very
Speaker 1: powerful political tool and almost a machine that raised a
Speaker 1: lot of money for Spain. Yeah. We we talked about
Speaker 1: Jews and Muslims. They were two of the bigger targets um.
Speaker 1: As far as it was just a bigoted culture. Basically,
Speaker 1: Jews were putting ghettos or killed um, which is weird
Speaker 1: because Spain was a very it grew out of Jews,
Speaker 1: Christians and Muslims living together in this area. But then
Speaker 1: under Ferdinand and Isabella, they were like, it was just Catholicism. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were officially banished um with the Alhambra decree in
Speaker 1: four two. And here's the rub is a lot of
Speaker 1: these Jews converted to Catholicism. But it wasn't like they
Speaker 1: were like, oh cool, well, you know, that's great, you
Speaker 1: converted to our religion and that's all well and fine.
Speaker 1: They called them pigs um maranos, which is derogatory, and
Speaker 1: said we think you're probably still really practicing Judaism, which
Speaker 1: some of them might have been. So yeah, it was
Speaker 1: like the suddenly the power establishment was was Catholic and
Speaker 1: there were a lot of Jews who converted. They were
Speaker 1: called converse those two, which was I think kind of
Speaker 1: a neutral term for him. But they were converted Catholics.
Speaker 1: And yes, there was a great deal of suspicion that
Speaker 1: they were Jewish and everything but name and that they
Speaker 1: just converted to avoid persecution, not even necessarily at first
Speaker 1: to avoid persecution, but just to to be able to
Speaker 1: gain power because the power establishment was Catholic. So I'll
Speaker 1: just go become Catholic too, and not still really Jewish,
Speaker 1: but I can hang out and have communion with you
Speaker 1: guys who were running the show. And so it was
Speaker 1: the suspicion that they were what are called crypto Jews
Speaker 1: running around in Spain that initiated the First inquis or
Speaker 1: the Spanish Inquisition. Yeah, and I guess the same is
Speaker 1: true with the Muslim mores Um. They would convert to Catholicism,
Speaker 1: and that still didn't really count. They were known as
Speaker 1: Morisco's which is Moorish, and it was basically the same
Speaker 1: thing as the Jewish community. There were still targets even
Speaker 1: though they converted. And uh, like I said, it went
Speaker 1: all the way over to Protestants and fellow Christians. So
Speaker 1: anything not Catholic basically, and not even not just not Catholic,
Speaker 1: but not orthodox Catholic. Yeah, it wasn't just in Europe either,
Speaker 1: it was it happened in the New World in Mexico,
Speaker 1: basically anywhere Spain was setting up shop. There could be
Speaker 1: a mobile inquisition unit. So like that was one of
Speaker 1: the even more despicable aspects of the Inquisition was that
Speaker 1: they would go conquer a land and then set up
Speaker 1: an inquisition to root out the non Catholics in a
Speaker 1: land that was there were no Catholics. So like when
Speaker 1: Spain took over Granada, um it was Moorish, it was Muslim.
Speaker 1: They set up the the inquisition there, or the Portuguese
Speaker 1: also had an inquisition, and when they went to India
Speaker 1: they set up the goa In Inquisition and rooted out Hindus.
Speaker 1: Well it's like, of course there's Hindus here. You guys
Speaker 1: came from over there to the land of Hindus. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be Hindus here. Like this is this is
Speaker 1: awful yea. But yeah, they also did it in Mexico
Speaker 1: and other places too. Uh yeah. And like we said,
Speaker 1: this isn't the only inquisition that was one in Portugal.
Speaker 1: There was the Roman Inquisition in the fifteen forties. That's
Speaker 1: where Galileo was famously uh I guess tried, yeah, and
Speaker 1: he was under house arrest, but he apparently his um
Speaker 1: his arrest in his trial was more just like it
Speaker 1: just flew in the face of science. The way he
Speaker 1: was treated apparently wasn't so bad. Like he had a
Speaker 1: pension from the pope, and yeah, I thought he was
Speaker 1: he died of natural causes. Yeah, but he was under
Speaker 1: house arrest, but he was He wasn't hurting, apparently. It
Speaker 1: was more just like the fact that that that there
Speaker 1: was a trial right right of science by Catholicism. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't get more literal than that exactly, So
Speaker 1: like like you're saying, it's it's exported everywhere. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: let's let's get into the trials in a minute, right
Speaker 1: after these messages. Okay, welcome back. Do you want to
Speaker 1: talk about the trials, Chuck. Yeah, we mentioned earlier that
Speaker 1: you could be accused by anyone anonymously. You didn't have
Speaker 1: the assistance of a lawyer. Um, you weren't necessarily even
Speaker 1: in formed of your charges, and you had to testify
Speaker 1: on your own, behalf you like you were forced to basically. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and on top of that, you didn't rarely have anyone
Speaker 1: coming to your defense because you would probably also be
Speaker 1: wrung up as a heretic. You're kind of on your own.
Speaker 1: The witnesses, Yeah, their defense. Yeah, character witness here and
Speaker 1: the guy's going Nope, not me. Yeah, I probably did
Speaker 1: see him flying around on him room, who knows. And
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything about this, but it said that
Speaker 1: fellow heretics could ride out other ones. But I wonder
Speaker 1: if there was a system of leniency if you've sold
Speaker 1: people down the river. I think there definitely was. So
Speaker 1: so let's this is how it happened. From what I understand, Um,
Speaker 1: there would be news that the parish priest would get
Speaker 1: that the inquisition was coming, and some inquisitors would come,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. But this article failed to
Speaker 1: mention Thomas the Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, like he's not
Speaker 1: his doesn't appear in this article. It's in It's crazy.
Speaker 1: But for a while Torqumoda took over from I think
Speaker 1: Um fourteen eighty three to fo like the chief of
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. He's the head guy, and he is
Speaker 1: um extremely vilified in history. He was a very hated
Speaker 1: man because he was the face of the Inquisition, of
Speaker 1: all this torture and and burning at the stake and
Speaker 1: rooting people out and just a literal witch hunt. Um.
Speaker 1: But so he's also somewhat defended by history a little
Speaker 1: bit too. Apparently prior in the two years after the
Speaker 1: Spanish Inquisition started and when he took over in fourteen
Speaker 1: eighty three, those two years were very bloody. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of torture. There were basically no rules. Torqumada
Speaker 1: came in and established rules, so there were things like,
Speaker 1: you can't torture anybody for longer than fifteen minutes, a
Speaker 1: doctor has to be present during torture, and the doctor
Speaker 1: says call it off, you have to op true. But
Speaker 1: also if you did do this stuff, you can also
Speaker 1: get a get off pretty easily, right, Like, if you
Speaker 1: did torture and you weren't supposed to, it's really not
Speaker 1: that big of a deal, Like, no one's gonna do
Speaker 1: anything to you. Well, you could do torture because in
Speaker 1: twelve uh, I can't remember, maybe twelve eighty three, well,
Speaker 1: one of the popes issued another papal bull saying, in
Speaker 1: addition to being able to do an inquisition, you can
Speaker 1: torture too. That was Pope Innocent the fourth, very appropriate.
Speaker 1: So you could torture somebody under the auspices of the church,
Speaker 1: but you weren't supposed to like mangle him or something
Speaker 1: like that. But yes, there wasn't any punishment for these inquisitors.
Speaker 1: But Torqumod is the face of the of the inquisition. Um.
Speaker 1: But there there are some people who say, well, he
Speaker 1: kind of brought a little bit of order to it,
Speaker 1: if you, if you can look at it like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And other people say he may have even saved people
Speaker 1: from you know, uh, gang violence of people basically just
Speaker 1: running into your house and burning you at the stake,
Speaker 1: right or from the state because um, there were apparently
Speaker 1: some just common criminals who upon being captured with blaspheme
Speaker 1: and then they would be tried by the Inquisition, which
Speaker 1: is apparently a little more lenient and forgiving. Because consider this, Chuck,
Speaker 1: this was is as gross as it is, as dark,
Speaker 1: as despicable as this whole the Inquisition was. It was
Speaker 1: still at its core a religious exercise, and the whole
Speaker 1: point from the inquisitor on down, especially these people who
Speaker 1: were true believers, the whole point was to extract a
Speaker 1: confession and save the heretic soul. Yeah, it was all
Speaker 1: about the confession. You couldn't just pronounce someone guilty. It
Speaker 1: was that was pulled out of them by any means necessary, basically,
Speaker 1: and only that you had to confess twice. You had
Speaker 1: to if you confess under torture, you had to further
Speaker 1: confess under you know, normal light of day, that what
Speaker 1: you said was in fact true. Right, So the inquisitors
Speaker 1: would come to town, they would set up shop, they
Speaker 1: would establish they would say mass, they would tell everybody
Speaker 1: what was going on, that they were here for an inquisition. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they give him a chance, right then, Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a forty day grace period and say you can confess
Speaker 1: your heresy right here, and you won't be tortured. You
Speaker 1: won't be punished. Um, you might have to do some penance,
Speaker 1: of course, but you can escape torture for sure, and
Speaker 1: you have to denounce other heretics. So that was sort
Speaker 1: of the McCarthy is m if you name names and
Speaker 1: we'll go easy on you. And so apparently some parish
Speaker 1: priests would find out that the inquisition was coming and
Speaker 1: would gather their flock and say, everybody, keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 1: These guys will leave eventually. Just shut up. And a
Speaker 1: lot of times these were just like country peasants who
Speaker 1: had like they knew that they loved Jesus and the
Speaker 1: Pope was in charge of them. But they also knew
Speaker 1: that they like needed to get back to their donkey
Speaker 1: because they hadn't fed it that day and they needed
Speaker 1: to plow the fields later that afternoon. These weren't like
Speaker 1: sophisticated people, and these were the the most educated, scholarly
Speaker 1: people on the planet at the time coming to their town, Yes,
Speaker 1: coming to their town and interrogating these peasants as to
Speaker 1: like the nuances of Catholic Orthodoxy. Yeah, they were leading questions,
Speaker 1: they would confuse them, they would get them rattled. Uh,
Speaker 1: all just in the name of I guess, taking land
Speaker 1: and money and assuming power. Right. And that was another
Speaker 1: thing too that I think we didn't mention, um the
Speaker 1: Jews in Spain prior to the consolidation of Spain into Spain,
Speaker 1: where this was the merchant class. They were, um. While
Speaker 1: there were plenty of peasants who were uneducated, there are
Speaker 1: also a lot of Jews who were very much educated,
Speaker 1: who were wealthy. So they did make even more desirable
Speaker 1: targets under that um that viewpoint that this was all
Speaker 1: about money and power and land. Like, what better group
Speaker 1: to target then the wealthy middle class And they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good point and think about that, thanks man.
Speaker 1: So where were we They weren't clever. They were being
Speaker 1: uh confused basically, and depending on where you were, like
Speaker 1: this is this is a country parish that we're talking
Speaker 1: about right now. Yeah, pumpkins, European pumpkins. They were like
Speaker 1: saucepans on their heads for hats and overalls with no
Speaker 1: shirts underneath. Um. So the other thing is is they
Speaker 1: would be uh they were imprisoned until they got a confession.
Speaker 1: So it's not like they if they didn't get a
Speaker 1: confession eventually they would just let them go and shun them.
Speaker 1: They would hold on to them until they confessed, basically,
Speaker 1: like that was the only way to get out. And
Speaker 1: if you died in prison, um to your well, your
Speaker 1: bones would be you'd be buried, but then your bones
Speaker 1: would be dug up and cremated and basically scattered like
Speaker 1: as an insult after death. And little known fact, but
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century somebody did this to Torqumata's remains.
Speaker 1: They dug them up and incinerated what was left of
Speaker 1: him and like scattered his asses, which I mean if
Speaker 1: you're if you're high up in the Dominican order. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if somebody did that to your bones, it's an enormous
Speaker 1: spiritual stab in the neck, you know. Uh. Okay, so
Speaker 1: we have been uh had the bull the decree of
Speaker 1: torture issued, and so they were you know, we've covered
Speaker 1: this in medieval torture devices, a lot of it. But
Speaker 1: they would do various things, uh to extract whatever information
Speaker 1: they wanted. One was called the strapado and that was UM.
Speaker 1: And this didn't sound too bad to me at first. Well,
Speaker 1: hold on, let me explain. So at first I read
Speaker 1: this is your hands. You were hung basically by your
Speaker 1: arms above your head, which is pretty bad in and
Speaker 1: of its well, I mean that in the rack. Both
Speaker 1: sound like early chiropractic care in a way, like it
Speaker 1: could really work some things out in the lower back.
Speaker 1: But then I realized that your hands are tied behind
Speaker 1: your back, and then you were hung from those hands.
Speaker 1: That's a way different thing than just being hung from
Speaker 1: your hands. Yeah, because the chances of your your arms
Speaker 1: coming out of your sockets, yeah, we're pretty good, very high.
Speaker 1: And there were also additions to this torture that could
Speaker 1: be UM added, like heavy weights to your legs. You
Speaker 1: could be jerked downward instead of just hanging there. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: just to really kind of help that this location along
Speaker 1: and make the stripato even more excruciating. They might burn
Speaker 1: you with hot pokers while you were hanging there. Some
Speaker 1: screw action. Yep, heavy boots. Yeah, the boot. You didn't
Speaker 1: want that. You didn't want the boot. We talked about
Speaker 1: the rack um, which is when you know your hands
Speaker 1: and feet are tied and you're on these rollers and
Speaker 1: the metal frame, and they basically just turned those rollers
Speaker 1: and give you a good stretch, meaning your your limbs
Speaker 1: would come out of socket, and if they did it
Speaker 1: too much, they might come completely away from your body.
Speaker 1: You know what's crazy? I heard or read that there
Speaker 1: is a there's something going on with a certain species
Speaker 1: of starfish right now that are they appear to be
Speaker 1: committing suicide. They're getting some sort of infection and to
Speaker 1: kill themselves, they their arms crawl in different directions until
Speaker 1: the middle is ripped apart and they eviscerate themselves. That's awful,
Speaker 1: but that's going on right now. No one has any
Speaker 1: idea of what the heck is going on with the
Speaker 1: starfish or why they're getting this mysterious infection. And then
Speaker 1: no one knew that starfish committed suicide. And the fact
Speaker 1: that they know this is pretty remarkable too, that somebody's
Speaker 1: studying starfish that closely that they have realized this is
Speaker 1: going on. Well, they were probably watching the first starfish
Speaker 1: the first time. You're like, let's starfish is really confused.
Speaker 1: How cute? Oh my god. And then another one does it,
Speaker 1: and another one You're like, we've got a problem. I
Speaker 1: need to go write a paper. Uh, nothing's funny about that.
Speaker 1: I love starfish. I don't know why I'm laughing. So,
Speaker 1: like you pointed out earlier, mutilation was prohibited supposedly during
Speaker 1: the torture, but um Alexander the fourth also decreed that
Speaker 1: you could clear anyone from wrong doing, like we pointed out,
Speaker 1: So it's even you're not gonna go up on a
Speaker 1: tribunal for torturing someone as an inquisitor. No, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I didn't see anything anywhere in the research
Speaker 1: where any inquisitor ever got in trouble for anything that
Speaker 1: was done during the Spanish inquisition. I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1: It may have happened, but I didn't see anything. So
Speaker 1: so let's recount real quick. The the inquisition comes to town.
Speaker 1: It's made up of some inquisitors, their secretaries, their staff.
Speaker 1: In a banjo player said, they set up shop and um,
Speaker 1: there's a forty day grace period where they're just hanging out.
Speaker 1: Anybody who wants to come confess can can fest and
Speaker 1: be forgiven. I bet that was scary though, Like you
Speaker 1: don't want to be the first guy to trust that. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 1: come on confess and people are like you, go do it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it'll be fine. Well, apparently like you would
Speaker 1: wear like a yellow cross on your clothes much like
Speaker 1: a scarlet letter for a while. As part of your penance,
Speaker 1: there was there you were forgiven and even after the
Speaker 1: grace period if you were if you confessed under torture,
Speaker 1: and then they made you confess again without being under torture,
Speaker 1: and they took it as a genuine one. You were forgiven.
Speaker 1: Penance could be rough though, it could be, but it
Speaker 1: could also not be. Yeah, but like pends on the
Speaker 1: it was on. It was on the case and it
Speaker 1: was left up to the inquisitors to use their judgment. True,
Speaker 1: but some of the some of the penance included like
Speaker 1: taking all your land, like we said, paying additional fines
Speaker 1: of money, you might have hard labor for the rest
Speaker 1: of your life. Um. Sometimes you're exiled completely from your
Speaker 1: county or from your country. Yeah, so you've got all
Speaker 1: of this is going on in a little town on
Speaker 1: the countryside, not necessarily a little town like Bologna, um, Toledo.
Speaker 1: They saw some some pretty heavy action. And these weren't
Speaker 1: necessarily back water birds, you know. Um. But the the
Speaker 1: inquisition would come to town side up a grace period,
Speaker 1: then the accusations would start to fly. There'll be torture,
Speaker 1: there'll be confessions, and then there was what are called
Speaker 1: the auto's de fee, And an auto de fee was
Speaker 1: a religious ritual fill with a lot of pomp and
Speaker 1: their circumstances, where the accused and convicted would walk around
Speaker 1: town in a big procession they have of course, of
Speaker 1: course they have mass all the time, um, and like
Speaker 1: everybody would come out for it. It was a huge thing,
Speaker 1: very much like a public execution in the United States
Speaker 1: or in in other parts of Europe. But the huge
Speaker 1: difference was there was never an execution in an auto
Speaker 1: to face. It was a religious ceremony and they wouldn't
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have ended in execution. Even if the people
Speaker 1: who were in the procession who had been convicted had
Speaker 1: been sentenced to death. It wouldn't take place during an
Speaker 1: auto to fay. It would take place separately, and in
Speaker 1: most cases the inquisitors gave that person over to the
Speaker 1: secular authorities to carry out the execution. Yeah, they didn't
Speaker 1: execute folks themselves. Um, although they could just abandon you
Speaker 1: is one way to look at it, where they would
Speaker 1: just say, kind of say he's a heretic, turn him
Speaker 1: over to the public. And that's where like you would
Speaker 1: get burned at the stake, especially if you're a repeat
Speaker 1: offender like you generally weren't forgiven for that if you
Speaker 1: messed up more than once. And we talked before, I
Speaker 1: don't remember what it was in, but burning at the stake.
Speaker 1: We came across some documentation of what it would like.
Speaker 1: It took like thirty minutes to die from it at
Speaker 1: the earliest, up to a couple of hours, depending on
Speaker 1: if the wind was blowing too much. Like that would
Speaker 1: be a horrible, horrible way to go. Yeah, was the
Speaker 1: worst ways to die. No, it was more recent than that,
Speaker 1: was it? It was? But we'll get to, uh, the
Speaker 1: fallout from all this stuff because you can't you can't
Speaker 1: do this to people and not expected to be a
Speaker 1: fallout over the course of history. Sure, And the Inquisition
Speaker 1: wasn't just from the fourteen eighty one to fourteen ninety
Speaker 1: two when the the Decree of Alambre was issued, like,
Speaker 1: it kept going on until the nineteenth century. Yeah, eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty four was when the last one in Spain occurred.
Speaker 1: There was a school teacher who was put to death
Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty six because he taught Deism to his class.
Speaker 1: That's the nineteenth century, eighty six, and like, that's not
Speaker 1: the fifteenth century, that's the nineteenth century. Now, it's not
Speaker 1: that long ago in the grand scheme of things, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And in eighteen fifty eight, there's a very famous case
Speaker 1: of a kid named Edgardo uh more Tara, and he
Speaker 1: was a Jewish kid raised in a Jewish family who
Speaker 1: was dying of a fever when he was like seven
Speaker 1: or something like that, and one of the domestic servants
Speaker 1: did an emergency baptism on the kid. The church found
Speaker 1: out about it, came and took him from his family
Speaker 1: and raised him as a Catholic When was that eighteen
Speaker 1: fifty eight, So that was even after the last inquisition
Speaker 1: supposedly when was the win four? Yes, so here's the thing.
Speaker 1: The Spain said no more inquisition in eighteen thirty four.
Speaker 1: The Catholic Church still actually has something called the Congregation
Speaker 1: of the Doctrine of the Faith and renamed it in
Speaker 1: the sixties sixties. Yeah, so it's still I mean, there's
Speaker 1: still the concept of the Inquisition as part of the
Speaker 1: Holy See, which is the Pope's power. But obviously nothing
Speaker 1: like this was going on these days. Uh So since
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the Inquisition is pretty controversial because beginning
Speaker 1: in the fift hundreds of the Protestant Reformation, you had
Speaker 1: a lot of uh, anti Catholic and anti Spanish sentiment,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people from the Catholic side these
Speaker 1: days are saying it was so exaggerated in the aftermath
Speaker 1: that a very small percentage when we look in our
Speaker 1: secret archives and our statistics, uh, we're actually killed. Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was what like point one percent. So
Speaker 1: I saw I saw something different. I saw um one
Speaker 1: percent of the hundred and twenty five thousand trials in Spain,
Speaker 1: Italy and Portugal. And here's the thing, man, I looked
Speaker 1: at like three or four different sets of numbers, and
Speaker 1: they're all way different. So you're never gonna we're never
Speaker 1: gonna know actual, like solid numbers, because if you are
Speaker 1: anti Catholic, you probably have your one set of numbers,
Speaker 1: and if you're pro Catholic, you have your set of numbers.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. But these numbers, that one
Speaker 1: percent of the hundred twenty five thousand trials um that was,
Speaker 1: that's based on that secret archive that the um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that the thank you that the Vatican opened up under
Speaker 1: Pope John Paul the second and said, you know what,
Speaker 1: you guys, come in here, you scholars, root around and
Speaker 1: give us a full report on the inquisition and let's
Speaker 1: see you know what's what. And he apologized when he
Speaker 1: announced that, and then he apologized in two thousand four
Speaker 1: when they issued the report finally. And that's where that
Speaker 1: one percent of the hundred and twenty five thousand came from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's how blog opinion pieces from two thousand four
Speaker 1: where some people are like, you, we shouldn't be apologizing
Speaker 1: for this again, like it was really inflated numbers and
Speaker 1: it wasn't as bad as people say. Well, again, that's
Speaker 1: the the pro Catholic uh side. Yeah, not pro inquisition necessarily,
Speaker 1: but the Catholic defenders. I think it is a better
Speaker 1: way to say. Yeah. I think they're probably also pointing
Speaker 1: out like, yeah, this is mostly Spain and it was
Speaker 1: mostly the monarchy and most of these executions were carried
Speaker 1: out by the Spanish state rather than the inquisition. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's kind of tricky wording, now, you know it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, the the pope was definitely involved. He gave
Speaker 1: his blessing at the time to Ferdinand and Isabella to
Speaker 1: carry this out, even though he came to regret it later.
Speaker 1: But they were saying that he came to regret it
Speaker 1: because he gave away so much power, because they said,
Speaker 1: can we have an inquisition here in Spain? And he said,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And they said, hey, you know those
Speaker 1: Spanish troops that are protecting you from Turkey right now
Speaker 1: in Rome, how about we recall them home? And he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't you have an inquisition? Yeah? Uh, And by
Speaker 1: the way, you don't have to answer to me, just
Speaker 1: go ahead and have your inquisition. And years later he's like, man,
Speaker 1: that was probably not a good idea because Pope John
Speaker 1: Paul the Second is going to have to apologize twice
Speaker 1: for this right. And Plus what's the difference in executing
Speaker 1: someone yourself at the end of a tribunal and saying, well,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna do it, but if someone else happened
Speaker 1: to after we set them into the street, it's not
Speaker 1: you know, on our wives and even like set them
Speaker 1: into the street like they're being killed because we tried
Speaker 1: them because they weren't Catholic enough. So but yes, I
Speaker 1: think it is. This is a really great illustration of
Speaker 1: the history is never black and white, and it can
Speaker 1: very easily become conflated, and even still today, like we
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know what happened, and even if we do
Speaker 1: know what happened from this symposium on the Inquisition, not
Speaker 1: everybody believes it. You know. Yeah, well we got some
Speaker 1: good comedy out of it from mel Brooks and Monty Python.
Speaker 1: Years later we shared a tragedy. Plus time. Uh, let's see,
Speaker 1: you got anything else I do not, sir. If you
Speaker 1: want to learn more about the Inquisition, you can type
Speaker 1: that word and the search part how stuff works dot
Speaker 1: com and it will bring up this article. And since
Speaker 1: you said search part, get this everybody. It's time for
Speaker 1: all right. So, as most of you know, this is
Speaker 1: a time when we thank people for sending us nice things,
Speaker 1: from records and books to Christmas cards and cookies. Uh uh,
Speaker 1: So let's get this going here. I've got some CDs
Speaker 1: for you and vinyl albums. Even Baby in the Nobody
Speaker 1: sent us shirts and c ds and Nostrin. Our buddy,
Speaker 1: Gentry Kalelo sent us a vinyl LP and some T
Speaker 1: shirts for her band Land of Vandals. Nice. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: got those good stuff. Matt Rob from the School on
Speaker 1: Wheels Team sent it's a nice Christmas card. Thank you
Speaker 1: for that. Yeah. And Central on Christmas cards Amy that
Speaker 1: is with an I. E. Meyer from Sellersburg, Indiana sent
Speaker 1: us a nice Christmas card. Yeah. And are we saying
Speaker 1: Matt Rob or Rab two ways? I called them Matt
Speaker 1: Broccoli Rob in mind, so I'm gonna say Rob. Stacy
Speaker 1: Wabell sent us some children's books Rudy's Incredible Kidney Machine
Speaker 1: and Rudy gets a trans plant. So there's a children's
Speaker 1: book for everything, and this one covers kidney transpense. Is awesome.
Speaker 1: Our pals at co ed the Cooperative for Education who
Speaker 1: helped fund education for kids in Guatemala, who were very
Speaker 1: fond of They send us a nice Christmas cards, so
Speaker 1: thanks guys. We got some knit socks from Jennifer Beaver
Speaker 1: that are very warm and colorful. Whatch I know you like?
Speaker 1: We got a Christmas card from Heather from Montana, Thank you.
Speaker 1: I got a postcard from Susannah Danner, Thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Lauren Coyne also sent us a Christmas card. Um, and
Speaker 1: you can watch my Dessert Junkie on YouTube and that's
Speaker 1: our YouTube show. Um. We got three not one, not two,
Speaker 1: but three volumes of short documentaries from Robin Canfield from
Speaker 1: Actuality Media, which supports a documentary study Abroad program which
Speaker 1: is pretty awesome, So all of you documentarians out there
Speaker 1: check that out. Actuality Media very cool. Thank you Charles
Speaker 1: Shell for sending us custom stuff you should know necklace. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ashley Murphy for the Japanese hero masks and the nice
Speaker 1: letter that she sent. Yeah, that was nice. Those are great. Uh.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much to Mona Collantine and Grandma Colling
Speaker 1: Teine in the whole Collantine family for sending us the
Speaker 1: big old tin of Christmas cookies again this year. Thank
Speaker 1: you Ramona. She's one of our local fans and she's awesome.
Speaker 1: Although her boyfriend I don't think helps and Nathan unless
Speaker 1: you make cookies for us, I won't mention you again.
Speaker 1: Although he might have helped Katherine Harmon the Courage send
Speaker 1: the book Octopus and that's with an exclamation point because
Speaker 1: she knows that we love the Octopus. Yes, and our
Speaker 1: buddy Aaron a c ZZ Cooper Cooper, who again this
Speaker 1: year took some of his best images of us photoshopped
Speaker 1: into weird situations uh and made hard posters for us,
Speaker 1: which are awesome, So thanks Coop. We appreciate them. As always.
Speaker 1: You're the best. Uncle John's Bathroom Reader they always send
Speaker 1: us great stuff, your friends. They sent us the book's
Speaker 1: Weird Inventions in Weird Canada and if you're Canadian you
Speaker 1: need to get Weird Canada and if you're not Canadian,
Speaker 1: you should get into They sent us a couple other
Speaker 1: ones too that I got. Yeah. Yeah. You can follow
Speaker 1: them on Twitter, go to their website Uncle John's Bathroom Readers.
Speaker 1: They are wonderful. Mark Palm of Vancouver, BC sen it's
Speaker 1: a seven inch of his band super Crush. It's pretty great.
Speaker 1: Seven inches a record by the way, for those of
Speaker 1: you not in the know. Uh. We got two albums
Speaker 1: from Ghosts of Sailors at See. We got the Skeleton
Speaker 1: Coast and a single, so thanks for that. Nicole Wingett
Speaker 1: send us wristbands from her Obstacle Course racing team, the
Speaker 1: corn Fed Spartans. Uh, let's see. Vivian Chin in Korea
Speaker 1: sent us Shawley's Fantasy two thousand fourteen calendars. Some K
Speaker 1: pop anime. Oh yeah, I remember that stuff. Paul sent
Speaker 1: us a lot of German cookies, like so many that
Speaker 1: the entire office couldn't need them all. Uh. And the
Speaker 1: DVD Michael Moore Hates America we got. Also got some
Speaker 1: sweet treats from Renee. Uh. Chavez Chaves, C H A
Speaker 1: V E. S. Javes. I'm gonna say Chavis all right.
Speaker 1: Rachel Ray Rose of Rose Sign Language Interpreting Company send
Speaker 1: us some homemade grape jelly and Pence. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: had someone that the other day. Delicious. Yes, Bob Partridge,
Speaker 1: Tennis and Alan Turing postcard from the London Science Museum.
Speaker 1: So that was on point and pretty cool. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: got a couple more you got some more. I have
Speaker 1: one more, so you go ahead. Hillary Lozar super fan
Speaker 1: sinn Us Flathead Lake cheese. Yeah, and by the way,
Speaker 1: I've since eaten all of it since the last time
Speaker 1: we mentioned it on the podcast. It was awesome. She
Speaker 1: also sent, uh, you mean Emily some earrings, which is
Speaker 1: very nice. Yes, it was nice. Um. And then Marcus
Speaker 1: who sent us popping shots. Thanks for those. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can check those out online. And my last one,
Speaker 1: Debbie from hammer Press sent us a goodie bag. They
Speaker 1: are a letter press and design company from Kansas City, Missouri,
Speaker 1: and she sent us all sorts of cool cool stuff
Speaker 1: like hand printed cards and like cool pencils and erasers
Speaker 1: and uh so support hammer Press and letter press designers.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty cool thing for sure. So thanks everybody.
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody, We appreciate it. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to you,
Speaker 1: and uh thanks the other three d and sixty four
Speaker 1: days of the year for all of the nice gifts. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with me and
Speaker 1: Chuck to talk to us to send us a gift
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