WEBVTT - How the Spanish Inquisition Worked 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:12.600 Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:18.239 Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerome Rowland. Jerry, 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.520 that's j E. R. I. Yeah, for those who don't know, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:26.599 we've ever said that, and we get many, many variations. Yeah, 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.120 it's it's mind boggling to mean that some people get 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.920 it right. And Jerry's a lady. Yes, shews. We'll just 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.600 go ahead and you know, get that out there. I 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.960 think that most people knew that, right, most people new 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.519 listeners are producers. J E. R. Right, the lady, Oh night, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.040 that's a T shirt right there. Uh okay, well we 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.000 have that settled officially. If anybody ever asked, we can 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.080 just send them the link to the Spanish Inquisition episode. Yeah. 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.880 I've been singing the History of the World Part one 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.000 song all day. Yeah, I was gonna ask, how how 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.959 shall we start this with with the song or with 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:06.280 the Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Uh so either of 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.680 mel Brooks or Monty Python. Well, they're both great to 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:11.840 you do one and I'll do the other at the 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.360 same time. The Inquisition. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.080 I watched that bit again today too, and I was like, 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:25.559 that's good. He got me l o LD. Wow. Yeah, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:27.840 Flying Circuits one of the great sketch shows of all time. 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.959 I think I'm curious, Chuck, what percentage of l O 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.520 L s do you think are actually symbolic of a 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.960 real laugh out loud, like when people say that, even 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.960 if it's a chuckle. Yeah, I don't know. I never 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:48.280 say l O L though, always say like, oh, I've 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:54.680 seen you. No, I have to dude, I've never typed 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.840 l O L. That is not for any Internet shorthand. 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:03.240 That's true. It's is so true. To find the documentations, Okay, 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.360 I'm going to find it. I didn't expect the third degree. 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.400 Nobody expects the third degree. That's what my family said. 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.120 We said the third degree, not the Spanish Inquisition third degree. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:21.400 Uh my family just left everybody alone. That must uh so, Chuck, Yes, 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.960 you've heard of the Spanish Inquisition obviously, are you? Were 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.639 you familiar with the actual thing, like beyond the seventies 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:32.480 and the nineteen seventies, No, with money Python and mel Brooks. No, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.160 I didn't know a whole lot about it. Was this 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.720 one was a delight to learn. Yeah, it was one 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.119 of those things in history where you realize a man, 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.920 it has it all. Frankly, there was more to it 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:49.440 than just what we thought, and it's possibly misunderstood. Yeah, 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.600 there's a lot of controversy surrounding how uh deep it 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.079 went and how bloody it got, and uh a lot 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:59.720 of people are still duking it out. Yeah, and that's 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.520 a that's it makes sense. Pope John Paul put it 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.280 very well when he said, and I'm paraphrasing here that um, like, yes, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.239 the Inquisition happened. Yes it was super messed up. Let's 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.480 find out exactly how messed up it is so the 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:20.960 church can be fully penitent h under um, being fully informed. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.320 But he wasn't saying, like, stop making such a big 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.720 deal about the inquisition everywhere, because it was a big 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:32.240 deal because it was using, um, a court system, pretty 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.360 much a perverted court system, and now the kind that's 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.120 like you know, rusty and eugene like perverted meaning like 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:45.600 twisted and grotesque. Um two route people out based on 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.720 the idea that there they weren't pious enough or pious 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.640 in the right ways. And even that was disingenuous because 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.760 ultimately it was used to consolidate power. Yeah, and I 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:02.600 saw other remarks from historians it even more ultimately, perhaps 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.080 it was a way to get money. Yeah, so power 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.200 and money. I think. So the whole thing just disgusting 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:11.240 at its core, and it's a real blemish on the 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.440 history of both the Church and Europe. Um. But it 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.800 did happen. But it's also possible that just how bad 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.200 it was, like you're saying was was exaggerated over the years. 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.440 So let's talk about this. We're talking specifically about the 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.240 Spanish Inquisition, but you can't really just talk about the 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.039 Spanish Inquisition. It didn't happen in a vacuum. It was 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.159 part of a larger thing that the inquisition in general. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:38.000 Um which is basically a court system where the court 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.440 is actually responsible for trying you rather than being an 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.159 impartial spectator referee. Yeah, it's called the tribunal. Basically, there's 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.520 no jury. It's the judge decides whether you're guilty or 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.680 not and what your fate will be, right, which is 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.120 kind of uneasy for the person who's being tried. Yeah, 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.200 you got one. Well, I think maybe a couple of 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.520 inquisitive wors uh might have been at work at times, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.200 but it definitely wasn't like a jury system by any 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.360 means none at all. Um. There were also some other 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:15.480 characteristics of a UM inquisition. You were not allowed to 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.839 know who is accusing you, and anyone could accuse you. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.920 You had to testify whether you wanted to or not 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.039 without any help. Yeah, and like you said, anybody could 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.680 accuse you. Other criminals could accuse you, family members, other 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.960 other heretics. And that was the whole point of this 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:39.479 was to root out heretics, people who UM were who 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:45.040 held beliefs that flew in the face of church church orthodoxy. Yeah, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:46.920 and I think we should get into this a little 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:52.640 bit because there's a broad definition of heretic. Like what 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:57.040 they could actually ring people up for was vast. You know, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.800 it wasn't like your Thai Catholic or you're a non 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:07.200 Christian atheist, like most of these people were either converts 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.159 to Catholicism, you know, forced converts like Jews or Muslims, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.640 or you know, it could have been anything from bigamy 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.520 to quote superstitions was one of the things. Yeah, there 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.039 are a lot of witches who were rooted out solicitation 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.480 and this is all by the way from the archive. Um. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.480 They eventually um opened up the Secret Archives. The Catholic 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.280 Church did about all this. Yeah, that's capitalized by the way, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.120 secret archives. That's a really it's a title. Um. And 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.440 so they actually had percentages of the of what people 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:43.720 were were brought in for. And like I said, most 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.479 of them was because you were a different faith. But 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.680 one of them was a miscellaneous two or three thousand 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:56.960 people freemasonry, sodomy, bigamy, superstitions, basically anything that they could 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.719 cook up that they wanted to cook up. Okay, so 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.120 let's if they wanted to and that was heresy and 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.600 that was the umbrella crime that was being investigated by 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.680 the inquisitions. Yeah, supposedly you had to be um. You 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.280 had to be teaching these beliefs just to other people, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.400 not just simply like a quiet believer of these uh 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.360 heretic things. Um. And you had to be doing it 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.560 of your own free will and like not be like 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.000 if you were under the influence of Satan. Hey, and 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:34.520 you had to um still hold this belief publicly even 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.320 after being corrected, even after its pointed out that what 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.800 you what you believe is heresy. So you want to 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.920 correct yourself yeah, so if you didn't correct, if you 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.760 didn't auto correct, then uh, yeah, you're right. So let's 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:53.520 take it back, um a little further back in the day. Uh, 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.880 Christians were very much persecuted and we're thrown to the 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.880 lions and were, Um there's there they were. They were 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.880 very much mistreated. And apparently they kind of took that 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.960 in a lot the same way that um maybe uh 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:18.120 Pip squeak, who's bullied and then bulks up over time, Yeah, 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.200 would treat being bullied. Um. The Christians did much the 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.400 same thing. Either that or they had a very short memory. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:29.480 Because Um, after Constantine the Great converted to Christianity, he 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.959 was the Roman emperor. Um, all of a sudden, the Church, 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.320 the Catholic Church, started to enjoy a lot of power, 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.320 and that power grew and grew and grew. Um. And 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.400 then all of a sudden, there were monarchies all over 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.400 Europe that were Catholic, They considered themselves Catholic, they associated 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.920 with the Catholic Church, they were in cahoots with the pope, 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.880 and they they became very powerful. The Church became a 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.280 very powerful institution. Um. And one of the ways that 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.560 it's I did it was going to spread its power 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:07.480 and maintain its power. Was to squash anything that was 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:12.800 outside the purview of Catholic orthodoxy. Anything that the Pope 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:20.000 said was not kosher was um not okay, it was heresy. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.000 And this is at the same time there are a 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.320 lot of different sects of Christianity, of Catholicism, even that 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.200 we're starting to gain in popularity. So things like the 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:33.840 Illuminati came out of this um era and the cars 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:40.160 like very spiritual uh groups that were Christian and identify 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.960 as Christian but thought the Pope was corrupt, and the 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.880 Pope said, or we're coming after you guys. And this 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.240 was the first Inquisition. Yeah, there were even uh persecution 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.640 of fellow Christians, Protestant Christians, Lutheran Christians. So it wasn't 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.360 necessarily just your Jew or your Muslim. No, these were 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:01.120 Christians initially. It wasn't until the Spanish Inquisition that Jews 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.959 were targeted. It was um during the medieval or Papal 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.560 Inquisition starting and I think twelve thirty one under Pope 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:14.920 Gregory the ninth, he issued a papal bull that said, uh, 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:20.440 we're going after heretics and we're going to use uh inquisitions. Yeah, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.280 and that was the start, that's right, twelve thirty one, 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.600 and uh, he picked the what was known as the 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:30.760 Dominican Order, which was not Dominicans in Dominican Republic, but 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:36.240 founded by Saint Dominic de Guzman Um. And they were 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.280 apparently like super smart and really knowledgeable, and they were 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.160 the people too, I guess, the a team to go 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.840 about conducting this first inquisition. Right. So this was under 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.520 King Ferdinand two and Queen Isabella, and it says there 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:55.360 were secular rulers. Do you know what that means? Uh? 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.760 Did they not identify as Catholic or they just that 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.600 wasn't there? No, they definitely did. I think what they 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.080 were saying was they weren't. It wasn't like the pope. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.040 It was they were like, Okay, they were the head 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.199 of government. Okay, that makes sense, Yeah, I got you. 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.960 But they did identify as Catholic, and they just recently 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:16.640 united Spain under the Catholic monarchy, and so they were saying, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.640 we need to make sure everybody else's Catholic. So let's 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.320 let's start an inquisition here too, right. Plus we can 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.920 collect some money, right if their found guilty, take their land. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.160 That kind of thing. Uh. So, like I said, Isabelle 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:33.920 and Ferdinand with Pope six to the fourth uh And 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.400 like you said, it was to create unity on the surface, 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.439 but probably was more about power and money and um 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:46.880 kind of just squashing any alternative alternative thought. Right. Yeah, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.760 I mean they were like, if you're consolidating two lands 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.760 into a single kingdom, it's not like flipping a switch. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.760 You know, like there's a lot of people who have 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.040 political ties and alliances on a more local level, there's 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:03.400 like Dina's ease and clans um. The I guess Isabella 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:05.959 and Ferdinand said, you know, a really good way to 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:11.839 unite everybody is under the banner of Catholicism. But ultimately 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.120 it was about them consolidating their power and breaking up 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.280 these alliances and and to gain money because part of 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.600 the inquisition was if you were accused of heresy, and 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.120 if you were convicted of heresy, the church and the 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.280 government would take your land and split it with the 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.719 person who accused you. So it ultimately became this very 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:36.360 powerful political tool and almost a machine that raised a 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.600 lot of money for Spain. Yeah. We we talked about 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.040 Jews and Muslims. They were two of the bigger targets um. 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.800 As far as it was just a bigoted culture. Basically, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.720 Jews were putting ghettos or killed um, which is weird 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.679 because Spain was a very it grew out of Jews, 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:59.120 Christians and Muslims living together in this area. But then 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:04.520 under Ferdinand and Isabella, they were like, it was just Catholicism. Yeah, 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.840 they were officially banished um with the Alhambra decree in 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.440 four two. And here's the rub is a lot of 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:15.960 these Jews converted to Catholicism. But it wasn't like they 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.240 were like, oh cool, well, you know, that's great, you 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.679 converted to our religion and that's all well and fine. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:26.360 They called them pigs um maranos, which is derogatory, and 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.840 said we think you're probably still really practicing Judaism, which 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:32.960 some of them might have been. So yeah, it was 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.920 like the suddenly the power establishment was was Catholic and 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.800 there were a lot of Jews who converted. They were 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.000 called converse those two, which was I think kind of 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.319 a neutral term for him. But they were converted Catholics. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.080 And yes, there was a great deal of suspicion that 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.679 they were Jewish and everything but name and that they 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.280 just converted to avoid persecution, not even necessarily at first 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.800 to avoid persecution, but just to to be able to 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.280 gain power because the power establishment was Catholic. So I'll 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.000 just go become Catholic too, and not still really Jewish, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.280 but I can hang out and have communion with you 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.880 guys who were running the show. And so it was 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.800 the suspicion that they were what are called crypto Jews 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.480 running around in Spain that initiated the First inquis or 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.000 the Spanish Inquisition. Yeah, and I guess the same is 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.800 true with the Muslim mores Um. They would convert to Catholicism, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.440 and that still didn't really count. They were known as 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.560 Morisco's which is Moorish, and it was basically the same 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.280 thing as the Jewish community. There were still targets even 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.840 though they converted. And uh, like I said, it went 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.440 all the way over to Protestants and fellow Christians. So 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.560 anything not Catholic basically, and not even not just not Catholic, 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:52.200 but not orthodox Catholic. Yeah, it wasn't just in Europe either, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.200 it was it happened in the New World in Mexico, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.640 basically anywhere Spain was setting up shop. There could be 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.600 a mobile inquisition unit. So like that was one of 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.320 the even more despicable aspects of the Inquisition was that 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.560 they would go conquer a land and then set up 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.120 an inquisition to root out the non Catholics in a 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.320 land that was there were no Catholics. So like when 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:18.040 Spain took over Granada, um it was Moorish, it was Muslim. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:22.640 They set up the the inquisition there, or the Portuguese 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.640 also had an inquisition, and when they went to India 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.160 they set up the goa In Inquisition and rooted out Hindus. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.880 Well it's like, of course there's Hindus here. You guys 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.440 came from over there to the land of Hindus. Yes, 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.760 there's gonna be Hindus here. Like this is this is 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.480 awful yea. But yeah, they also did it in Mexico 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.680 and other places too. Uh yeah. And like we said, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.480 this isn't the only inquisition that was one in Portugal. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.320 There was the Roman Inquisition in the fifteen forties. That's 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:57.400 where Galileo was famously uh I guess tried, yeah, and 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:02.560 he was under house arrest, but he apparently his um 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.120 his arrest in his trial was more just like it 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.120 just flew in the face of science. The way he 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.160 was treated apparently wasn't so bad. Like he had a 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.320 pension from the pope, and yeah, I thought he was 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.840 he died of natural causes. Yeah, but he was under 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:22.200 house arrest, but he was He wasn't hurting, apparently. It 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.280 was more just like the fact that that that there 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:30.440 was a trial right right of science by Catholicism. You know, 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.640 it's it doesn't get more literal than that exactly, So 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.360 like like you're saying, it's it's exported everywhere. Yeah, but 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.080 let's let's get into the trials in a minute, right 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:47.880 after these messages. Okay, welcome back. Do you want to 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.240 talk about the trials, Chuck. Yeah, we mentioned earlier that 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:55.160 you could be accused by anyone anonymously. You didn't have 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.840 the assistance of a lawyer. Um, you weren't necessarily even 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.280 in formed of your charges, and you had to testify 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.000 on your own, behalf you like you were forced to basically. Yeah, 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.560 and on top of that, you didn't rarely have anyone 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.679 coming to your defense because you would probably also be 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.960 wrung up as a heretic. You're kind of on your own. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.840 The witnesses, Yeah, their defense. Yeah, character witness here and 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.280 the guy's going Nope, not me. Yeah, I probably did 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.679 see him flying around on him room, who knows. And 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.560 I didn't see anything about this, but it said that 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.359 fellow heretics could ride out other ones. But I wonder 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.800 if there was a system of leniency if you've sold 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:40.320 people down the river. I think there definitely was. So 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.680 so let's this is how it happened. From what I understand, Um, 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.359 there would be news that the parish priest would get 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.359 that the inquisition was coming, and some inquisitors would come, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.760 and I couldn't believe it. But this article failed to 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.600 mention Thomas the Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor, like he's not 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.640 his doesn't appear in this article. It's in It's crazy. 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:07.080 But for a while Torqumoda took over from I think 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:12.399 Um fourteen eighty three to fo like the chief of 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.040 the Supreme Court. He's the head guy, and he is 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.760 um extremely vilified in history. He was a very hated 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.040 man because he was the face of the Inquisition, of 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.880 all this torture and and burning at the stake and 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.280 rooting people out and just a literal witch hunt. Um. 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.760 But so he's also somewhat defended by history a little 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.920 bit too. Apparently prior in the two years after the 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:43.160 Spanish Inquisition started and when he took over in fourteen 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:47.040 eighty three, those two years were very bloody. There was 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.399 a lot of torture. There were basically no rules. Torqumada 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.800 came in and established rules, so there were things like, 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.879 you can't torture anybody for longer than fifteen minutes, a 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.720 doctor has to be present during torture, and the doctor 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.800 says call it off, you have to op true. But 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.320 also if you did do this stuff, you can also 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:06.840 get a get off pretty easily, right, Like, if you 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:08.600 did torture and you weren't supposed to, it's really not 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:09.960 that big of a deal, Like, no one's gonna do 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.800 anything to you. Well, you could do torture because in 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:18.720 twelve uh, I can't remember, maybe twelve eighty three, well, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.320 one of the popes issued another papal bull saying, in 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.960 addition to being able to do an inquisition, you can 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.560 torture too. That was Pope Innocent the fourth, very appropriate. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.120 So you could torture somebody under the auspices of the church, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.480 but you weren't supposed to like mangle him or something 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.080 like that. But yes, there wasn't any punishment for these inquisitors. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.280 But Torqumod is the face of the of the inquisition. Um. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.480 But there there are some people who say, well, he 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.320 kind of brought a little bit of order to it, 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.400 if you, if you can look at it like that. Yeah, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.960 And other people say he may have even saved people 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.840 from you know, uh, gang violence of people basically just 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.680 running into your house and burning you at the stake, 0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:01.000 right or from the state because um, there were apparently 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:05.560 some just common criminals who upon being captured with blaspheme 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.880 and then they would be tried by the Inquisition, which 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:14.800 is apparently a little more lenient and forgiving. Because consider this, Chuck, 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.840 this was is as gross as it is, as dark, 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.960 as despicable as this whole the Inquisition was. It was 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:28.040 still at its core a religious exercise, and the whole 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.480 point from the inquisitor on down, especially these people who 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.240 were true believers, the whole point was to extract a 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.520 confession and save the heretic soul. Yeah, it was all 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:44.680 about the confession. You couldn't just pronounce someone guilty. It 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:49.080 was that was pulled out of them by any means necessary, basically, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:51.520 and only that you had to confess twice. You had 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.840 to if you confess under torture, you had to further 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.720 confess under you know, normal light of day, that what 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:00.639 you said was in fact true. Right, So the inquisitors 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:02.240 would come to town, they would set up shop, they 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.200 would establish they would say mass, they would tell everybody 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.680 what was going on, that they were here for an inquisition. Yeah, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.480 and they give him a chance, right then, Yeah, there's 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.680 a forty day grace period and say you can confess 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.879 your heresy right here, and you won't be tortured. You 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.520 won't be punished. Um, you might have to do some penance, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.440 of course, but you can escape torture for sure, and 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.160 you have to denounce other heretics. So that was sort 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.520 of the McCarthy is m if you name names and 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:31.960 we'll go easy on you. And so apparently some parish 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.359 priests would find out that the inquisition was coming and 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.440 would gather their flock and say, everybody, keep your mouth shut. 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.199 These guys will leave eventually. Just shut up. And a 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.400 lot of times these were just like country peasants who 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.639 had like they knew that they loved Jesus and the 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.400 Pope was in charge of them. But they also knew 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.719 that they like needed to get back to their donkey 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:56.760 because they hadn't fed it that day and they needed 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.879 to plow the fields later that afternoon. These weren't like 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:06.360 sophisticated people, and these were the the most educated, scholarly 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.720 people on the planet at the time coming to their town, Yes, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.159 coming to their town and interrogating these peasants as to 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:20.200 like the nuances of Catholic Orthodoxy. Yeah, they were leading questions, 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.440 they would confuse them, they would get them rattled. Uh, 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.320 all just in the name of I guess, taking land 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.359 and money and assuming power. Right. And that was another 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:32.760 thing too that I think we didn't mention, um the 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.560 Jews in Spain prior to the consolidation of Spain into Spain, 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.560 where this was the merchant class. They were, um. While 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:46.280 there were plenty of peasants who were uneducated, there are 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:48.760 also a lot of Jews who were very much educated, 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.040 who were wealthy. So they did make even more desirable 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:56.160 targets under that um that viewpoint that this was all 0:22:56.160 --> 0:22:59.440 about money and power and land. Like, what better group 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:04.040 to target then the wealthy middle class And they did. Yeah, 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.200 that's a good point and think about that, thanks man. 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.080 So where were we They weren't clever. They were being 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:15.199 uh confused basically, and depending on where you were, like 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:17.480 this is this is a country parish that we're talking 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.959 about right now. Yeah, pumpkins, European pumpkins. They were like 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.879 saucepans on their heads for hats and overalls with no 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.639 shirts underneath. Um. So the other thing is is they 0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:34.720 would be uh they were imprisoned until they got a confession. 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.359 So it's not like they if they didn't get a 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.920 confession eventually they would just let them go and shun them. 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.320 They would hold on to them until they confessed, basically, 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.680 like that was the only way to get out. And 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.600 if you died in prison, um to your well, your 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:54.359 bones would be you'd be buried, but then your bones 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:58.080 would be dug up and cremated and basically scattered like 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:02.399 as an insult after death. And little known fact, but 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:06.040 in the nineteenth century somebody did this to Torqumata's remains. 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.359 They dug them up and incinerated what was left of 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.400 him and like scattered his asses, which I mean if 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:15.879 you're if you're high up in the Dominican order. Yeah, 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:19.440 if somebody did that to your bones, it's an enormous 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:26.840 spiritual stab in the neck, you know. Uh. Okay, so 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:30.919 we have been uh had the bull the decree of 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:35.159 torture issued, and so they were you know, we've covered 0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:37.760 this in medieval torture devices, a lot of it. But 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:41.480 they would do various things, uh to extract whatever information 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:46.280 they wanted. One was called the strapado and that was UM. 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.240