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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by Bicycle Tug

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Speaker 1: of War. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations of

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Speaker 1: our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't

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Speaker 1: I'm you never know stories of things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer too. Hey, guys, welcome to an episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am Devin, joined as

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Speaker 1: usual by Steve Joe and the Ghost in the mixer,

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Speaker 1: which is on, which is totally yes, it's on. Also,

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Speaker 1: I haven't mentioned the tuper coper lately, so so why not.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say he's here in spirit. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you really have upset some of our listeners. The tuper

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Speaker 1: Copera hasn't made an appearance on the show in a while.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, I'm sure that we can work it into

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Speaker 1: this before we get too far into it. And by

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Speaker 1: too far into it, I mean into it at all. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this suggests this is a listener suggestion. I believe it's

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Speaker 1: pronounced tomorrow. I think that's right. It's like Maru the

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Speaker 1: Cap but with an O Insteadmorrow. Yeah. Anyway, this week

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what is up with the

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie disappearance? She vanished for eleven days? She did? Yeah, actions, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we're talking about that she disappeared in nineteen six.

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Speaker 1: And if you're a doctor who nerd like me, you

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Speaker 1: know that it's because of a giant space wasp. It's proven. No,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that particular episode, did he did he

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Speaker 1: actually transport her like ten days forward in time? Spoilers? Sorry, Oh,

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Speaker 1: come on, that was like season three those spoilers. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think of season five. It was the Donna season.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, five, Oh it was, and then' like that season.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's see this a doctor on now like thirty

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Speaker 1: seven or something. This is a very long conversation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so here's the story. You guys, Ready for the story? Yes,

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Speaker 1: all right. On December three, Agatha Christie and her husband

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Speaker 1: Archie had been fighting a little bit, just a little.

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Speaker 1: He had asked her for a divorce because he was

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Speaker 1: in love with another woman. By the way, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of a jerk jerk thing from to do. Because

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Speaker 1: her mother died recently, she was under a lot of stress. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and to top it off, he had a quote unquote

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Speaker 1: problem with sick people. Yeah, so he was nowhere to

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Speaker 1: be seen, like a month or two. He was hanging

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Speaker 1: out in London. Yeah, no, no, if I'm not coming

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Speaker 1: to the the house, yeah yeah. Archie left the house that

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Speaker 1: afternoon to spend some weeks with his mistress, who was

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Speaker 1: named Nancy Neal. I thought they were just going to

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Speaker 1: spend like a weekend again. I was gonna say, I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I've seen both. That's why I was trying to see

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Speaker 1: if you'd found anything that said he said X amount

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Speaker 1: of time. Okay, I think a weekend, a long weekend.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's British timing. I don't know what. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what that is, but I don't know. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff where you're kind of like, I

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Speaker 1: don't actually know how what that's referencing. But okay, cool.

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Speaker 1: So after a little while, I think it was like

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Speaker 1: nine pm or something like that. After he left, Agatha

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Speaker 1: got up from her chair, went upstairs, kissed her daughter,

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Speaker 1: and left a note for her secretary saying that she

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Speaker 1: was going to Yorkshire for a bit. Later that night,

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Speaker 1: her car was found abandoned, lights on quote perched above

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Speaker 1: a chalk quarry. Yeah you hear that differently suddeny here,

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Speaker 1: it's like run into some sort of bush. Sometimes you

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Speaker 1: hear it's like kind of on the precipice, yeah something,

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Speaker 1: or just hood up lights on. Yeah. But I think

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Speaker 1: the consistent thing and all of these versions is all

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Speaker 1: of her stuff was in the car. I've never heard

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Speaker 1: when where her stuff wasn't abandoned at the car. Most

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Speaker 1: of her stuff. Yeah, it was a fur and a

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Speaker 1: bag with a little bit of clothing and and of

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Speaker 1: course your driver's license was in there. Yes, And interestingly

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Speaker 1: it was found. It was found southwest of London, which

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Speaker 1: is like totally the wrong direction to go if you

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Speaker 1: want to have to the Yorkshire Yeah, fifteen miles. I

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Speaker 1: pulled it up on the map. It's about fifteen miles

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Speaker 1: south south west, southwest of Yeah, no southeast, yeah, from

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Speaker 1: their home. From their home, she drove southeast, yeah, instead

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Speaker 1: of driving northeast to go to Yorkshire. Correct. Yeah. Well

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Speaker 1: maybe she was confused, Yeah, maybe maybe she couldn't read

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Speaker 1: a map. Yeah. Anyway, that was it for eleven days,

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Speaker 1: that the map upside down. Yeah, it's possible actually. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: People suggested that this was the publicity stunt, after all,

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Speaker 1: the murder of Roger Ackroyd had just been published I

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Speaker 1: think within a year of the of her disappearance, and

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, a massive success of course, yes,

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Speaker 1: but for some reason people thought that she needed a

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Speaker 1: publicity stunt on top of that. Maybe she wanted to

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Speaker 1: give it a little boost. I guess, yeah, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to disappear and give our ratings a booth. But most

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Speaker 1: people suspected that her husband had something to do with it,

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Speaker 1: which I think you would naturally assume a little bit

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Speaker 1: after the search had been going on for a few days.

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Speaker 1: It actually made the cover of the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: the New York Times, So of course if that ended

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Speaker 1: up in a huge nationwide manhunt. Almost about fifteen thousand

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Speaker 1: people volunteered to help search for her, as well as

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Speaker 1: dogs and airplanes they had searching for her as well.

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Speaker 1: Apparently that was an historical first for Britain. Yeah, the airplanes, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: using them to search for people. And since they kind

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Speaker 1: of feared the worst, they started dredging streams and lakes

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Speaker 1: especially there was there was a little lake right and

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Speaker 1: right near where a car was found, so that's the

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Speaker 1: first place they turned to. Yeah, and there's a great

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Speaker 1: picture that shows during the search when they're doing the dredging.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know that everybody understands, so I had

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Speaker 1: never really thought about it, But do you know how

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Speaker 1: you dredge for a Well, what they were doing is

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Speaker 1: they had basically a giant, three pronged hook on a rope,

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Speaker 1: chucking it in, letting it sink and dragging it back

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Speaker 1: to the top, which would have paid in the butt.

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Speaker 1: And I would hate to be the guy who was like,

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Speaker 1: I gotta bite yeah, really seriously, probably brought up a

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Speaker 1: lot of logs, car tires, maybe some road signs, and

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Speaker 1: probably some of Churchill's tea set. Wait, I mean a

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Speaker 1: Turing t set. Yeah. Yeah, you guys you've heard about

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Speaker 1: what happened with his teacup, right, didn't He used to

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Speaker 1: like lock it to his death. It was just kind

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Speaker 1: of a weirdo move. Yeah, I don't know, like why. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out to somebody at Bletchley Park thought that

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Speaker 1: they were a really funny prankster and would steal people's teacups,

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Speaker 1: and nobody really knew what the deal was until a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago when they drained the pond and

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Speaker 1: on them all in the middle. He just thought it

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Speaker 1: was funny for them to disappear all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: So that's criminally irresponsible. In the middle of a war.

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Speaker 1: You're wasting precious teacups. Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna tell the whole story here, But someday, if you're curious,

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Speaker 1: like you're listening to this, you should go out on

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Speaker 1: the internet and try to find the story of Churchill's parrot. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's a great story. Yeah, not for this show now,

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Speaker 1: Batgar story. Sorry. Famous people started getting involved. Arthur Conan

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Speaker 1: Doyle remember him. Yeah, he gave a psychic one of

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie's gloves. The psychic who was Horace Leaf. You guys,

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Speaker 1: you've heard of I am not. Actually you haven't. I

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Speaker 1: may have, but the name is not ringing a bell.

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Speaker 1: So he was like one of the most He was

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Speaker 1: kind of the spearhead of the spiritualist movement and he

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Speaker 1: would hold all of these like seances and stuff like

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Speaker 1: that and just with a total hack. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot of that stuff going on. Yeah, yeah, there was.

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Speaker 1: He said that he could tell she was still alive

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Speaker 1: though quote half days and half purposeful unquote. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that's that's the whole thing, right, it's like mediums

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Speaker 1: and spiritualists. It's that like cold reading situation. Anyway, He however,

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Speaker 1: did predict that she would surface a few days later,

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Speaker 1: and accurately she did. Bob Tappen the banjo player at

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Speaker 1: the then named Harrowgate Hydropathic Company or the hydro which

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Speaker 1: is now called the Old swan In because sure he

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Speaker 1: recognized Christie. She had apparently checked in some number of

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Speaker 1: days ago. Though I've never been able to find out

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Speaker 1: when under the assumed name of Mrs Teresa Neil. That

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Speaker 1: theme sound familiar, does do? Who? Just? It's um archies

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Speaker 1: love her? Nancy Neal? Oh used the same last name? Okay,

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Speaker 1: got it? Yeah? No, sorry, not to res Nel, but yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why I was confused. I wanted banjo player, by

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Speaker 1: the way, the one of the London papers that offered

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Speaker 1: a one hundred pound reward and he collected it. He

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Speaker 1: got to collect it with hundred pounds back in those days,

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Speaker 1: was you know, chunk changed nair amount of money? Definitely apparently?

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Speaker 1: Oh sorry, that was also gonna say that. Apparently one

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Speaker 1: of the stories goes that it was actually one of

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Speaker 1: the one of the maids that recognized her, and she

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Speaker 1: mentioned it to him, and he just so he jumped

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Speaker 1: in there and grabbed the rewards. She should have kept

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Speaker 1: her mouth shut, should have she should have told somebody. Yeah, Apparently,

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Speaker 1: according to the prevalent theory, whatever, Christie had crashed, her

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Speaker 1: car gone into the what the old timey doctors called

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Speaker 1: the out of body amnesia experience, boarded a train to

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Speaker 1: the Hydro, checked in with almost no luggage, and lived

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Speaker 1: like a normal guest for eleven days. She had like

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Speaker 1: a pouchful of money, she like three hundred pounds or

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Speaker 1: something like. She had a lot of money. She had

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Speaker 1: like a money belt yeah yeah, which like, okay, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why, like her driver's license and stuff weren't

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Speaker 1: in there, but okay, fine, who goes around with a

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Speaker 1: money belt stuffed full of cash all the time. I

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Speaker 1: don't know rich people. I guess, I guess. Actually, when

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Speaker 1: I travel, I usually have a money belt with money

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Speaker 1: in it if I'm traveling overseas, right, yeah, but that's

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Speaker 1: that's traveling overseas. Yeah, not when you're, you know, going

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Speaker 1: to drive over to Yorkshire for a little bit. It

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Speaker 1: is admittedly it's two miles something from It's a couple

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Speaker 1: hour drive, is what it is. Though, that's that's not

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Speaker 1: far enough to me to justify trapping on yield money belt.

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Speaker 1: I agree, Well, I'm sure a lot of people do

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Yeah, she I guess she had

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Speaker 1: read the newspapers with her name and picture plastered kind

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Speaker 1: of all over it, without apparently recognizing herself nor anybody

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Speaker 1: else looking at the you know, she's sitting there reading

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Speaker 1: the newspaper. There's the picture of her. You know, you

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Speaker 1: can play that in a movie, right, there's a picture

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Speaker 1: of her. You look at that, You look at her,

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Speaker 1: You look at that, You look at her, and you go, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not her. It's not her at all. Did you

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Speaker 1: did you look at the photos that they have of her,

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Speaker 1: because they had renditions of hers. Yeah, they especially with

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Speaker 1: that that weird little little um the glasses and the

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Speaker 1: high shirt. Yeah, or that weird haircut, or she looked

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Speaker 1: like what's his name from the three students? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of imagine, like, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: tappens revelation played out, I guess I imagine him just

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Speaker 1: kind of looking at her and saying, oh, hey, you're

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie, the people are looking for you, and her

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Speaker 1: being like, no, I'm I'm miss Neil, and he's like, nah, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're Agatha. I'm going to call a police.

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Speaker 1: You probably didn't say that because she might iran if

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Speaker 1: she's maybe done that, that's true. Yeah, the police did

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Speaker 1: show up, and her husband did as well. Apparently this

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Speaker 1: rated on his like how much do I care about

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Speaker 1: my soon to be ex wife scale her disappearance. I

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Speaker 1: think the guy who philanders as much as he was

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Speaker 1: this is it's really weird that this rank's okay, but

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Speaker 1: the death of her mother doesn't. Yeah, but I think

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Speaker 1: at this point he was under a lot of scrutiny

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Speaker 1: from the press, and you know, you don't you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like you're treating her so bad, you don't care

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Speaker 1: care about her at all, and so you wanted to

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Speaker 1: demonstrate that. I don't. I don't think you probably especially

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Speaker 1: wanted to go. But I mean, I think in addition

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Speaker 1: to that, it's, you know, you're treating her so bad,

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Speaker 1: you're being horrible to her. You probably killed her. If

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Speaker 1: we can't find her, we'll probably think that you killed her.

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Speaker 1: He probably had a pretty big vested interest in trying

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Speaker 1: to make sure that she was found safe and sound.

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Speaker 1: True anyway, he without I guess, protests from her. I

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Speaker 1: never read any stories about her, you know, kicking and

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Speaker 1: screaming and protesting and saying, oh I'm not a good Christie.

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Speaker 1: Um no ah. He took her from the hydro to

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Speaker 1: Las Palmas, which like, why would you complain about that?

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Speaker 1: Spain little island off Spain, got it, beautiful little resort community.

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Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm gonna go see a check it out

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Speaker 1: a street view. Yeah, you should have done that already. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So she fully recovered and never had a spell of

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Speaker 1: lost time, at least that we know of. Again, never

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Speaker 1: had out of body or not anesthesia the same thing, totally.

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Speaker 1: Anesthesa does give you amnesia, does you know? So that's

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Speaker 1: the story. We don't know anything. I mean, we don't

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Speaker 1: know what happened during the love and days at all.

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Speaker 1: There's no record of it, and she didn't talk about

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Speaker 1: it in her memoirs at all either. She seems to

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Speaker 1: not genuinely. She never wanted to talk about She didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: That's what she said. That's what she said. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions how did she get from

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Speaker 1: why did she go south? And then how did she

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Speaker 1: get from the car to the train, because it's not

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Speaker 1: like it was across the street from the train depot

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Speaker 1: or just down the street from it. There are there's

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Speaker 1: that town just to the northwest of where they found

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Speaker 1: the car, and it's it's spelled Guildford, but if I know,

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Speaker 1: the British just pronounced Jolfer, but it's spelled Guildford. So

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Speaker 1: there's a train station there and that's not very far

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Speaker 1: from where she crossed your car five, not even that

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Speaker 1: I don't, okay, Yeah, and so she but she would

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Speaker 1: have to be aware of what's around her to then

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Speaker 1: know to go that direction. I mean, it's just there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. Well, I mean, I guess somebody

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Speaker 1: could have picked her up. It it was dark. Somebody

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Speaker 1: could have said, oh, yeah, i'll give you a right

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Speaker 1: to the nearest town and you can, you know, deal

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Speaker 1: with everything there. And she just was maybe a little

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Speaker 1: you know, adult, and so it was like, oh, okay, cool,

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Speaker 1: I'll get on the train. Well, yeah, it was one

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Speaker 1: way to look at it. Yeah, it's possible. There was

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Speaker 1: a rumor you'll read sometimes on the internet, um that

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Speaker 1: there was a cottage not far by that was found

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Speaker 1: with women's clothes like left in it. It was an

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Speaker 1: abandoned cottage or something that it meant that Agatha had

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Speaker 1: like changed her clothes. But that was total bunk. That

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Speaker 1: didn't actually happen. It's like a late addition to the story.

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Speaker 1: I want anything like that ever happened on the internet. Never, never,

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Speaker 1: never ever. So theoris the first one is the doctor obviously,

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Speaker 1: yeah for real, I mean the giant Wasp aliens could

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Speaker 1: have been involved in the episode slash real life, because

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Speaker 1: we all know the doctor, who is a documentary Agatha

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Speaker 1: has been luring had been luring the Wasp away from

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Speaker 1: a party when she crashed her car. She suffered some

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Speaker 1: pain as the Wasp dies and she passes out, and

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Speaker 1: the doctor realizes that, like, oh, I'm the reason that

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Speaker 1: she was gone for eleven days, although in the episode

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Speaker 1: it was ten days. So I'm just going to take

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Speaker 1: her to the small where she was found. But no,

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Speaker 1: you don't think that as much as I like, dr

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Speaker 1: who is that not ane? I'm putting theory nobly not

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Speaker 1: like yet, as you would say, okay, fine, all right,

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Speaker 1: serious Option one, she was faking it yeah, I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of liken this one. Okay, So in true again Devin fashion,

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Speaker 1: we're doing the titles subheadings. But and this one is

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Speaker 1: actually pretty plausible that she was faking it. I mean again,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like what you see pictures of yourself

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Speaker 1: all over the place, Like, how do you not? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because even if you've forgotten who you are, you're still

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Speaker 1: looking in the mirror every day. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: you look like. Yeah, um, but how many times have

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Speaker 1: you gone and looked at yourself in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: not notice something about yourself? You know, Let's say you've

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Speaker 1: got some you know, there's a wrinkle in your forehead

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Speaker 1: or something, you've got that distinct pattern, and you just

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Speaker 1: don't notice those anymore. And it might be that if

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Speaker 1: she's you know, a little screwed up in the head,

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Speaker 1: you just ignore that. Your brain just says, well, I

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Speaker 1: normally don't look at that, So I'm not gonna look

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Speaker 1: at that. I'm not gonna look at this. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: look at that. And I just don't know who that

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Speaker 1: that that funny bit of nose and eyebrow wiz, you know. Actually,

303
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Speaker 1: and maybe she'd put out a whole lot of weight recently.

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Speaker 1: You know, the pictures were not you know, taken just yesterday. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they weren't. Yeah, it's not like we were in the

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Speaker 1: age of instant photos. Yeah. So maybe she had the

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Speaker 1: picture those photos, that photo was taken and then she

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Speaker 1: put on like three pounds. That didn't happen, But it

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Speaker 1: might be a couple of years out of date. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: before we get too deep into this, this theory and

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, why and and how, let's pause

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Speaker 1: for a second to take a step out of the

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Speaker 1: Agatha Christie story and into psychology. Whoo, who at least

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Speaker 1: favorite college class? He's my favorite college class. It's weird

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Speaker 1: that they kept taking me stare at that black and

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Speaker 1: white spinning wheel. Yeah, by and I wouldn't remember anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well maybe you had this happen to Actually

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Speaker 1: I have to have that sometimes when I've just sort

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Speaker 1: of lost memory. Yeah, usually alcohols involved. Yeah, usually yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned before, officially Agatha was diagnosed with out

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Speaker 1: of body amnesia and I had to turn to our

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Speaker 1: experts on this. So a huge thank you to Luke, Hannah,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Jacob, and Elena and thanks guys. You guys were

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Speaker 1: like crazy helpful. I can google all I want and

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Speaker 1: read the Wikipedia articles that you quoted back to me,

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Speaker 1: and it will never be as good as somebody you know,

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Speaker 1: writing out in layman's terms what this means and giving

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Speaker 1: me their professional opinion on something. So thank you. Everybody

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Speaker 1: pretty much agreed that the modern diagnosis of an out

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Speaker 1: of body amnesia experience would be what's called a FuG state.

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Speaker 1: If you're a fan of Breaking Bad, you probably have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of experience with this. You guys on

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Speaker 1: Walter had to account for some lost time. What are

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Speaker 1: you staring me? Yeah? Yeah, here right, yeah, any any

335
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Speaker 1: you know? So he's naked in a store and he

336
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Speaker 1: doesn't really know who he is, and thanks for spoiling

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00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 1: that spoils a very small part of it. But in

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Speaker 1: the in the episode, it's very clear that he isn't

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Speaker 1: actually in state. He's faking it. Yeah. Essentially, as I

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Speaker 1: understand it, when somebody is under a huge amount of

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Speaker 1: stress or incredibly depressed, the brain basically decides to say, like,

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Speaker 1: by Felicia, let's start a whole new life as a

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Speaker 1: whole new person, and makes it up for you. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how often this happens though, I well, nor

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Speaker 1: do I, and we'll we'll talk about that. Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: does seem to be Yeah, um, it can also be

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Speaker 1: caused by trauma, like a car crash, right if you

348
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Speaker 1: hit your head hard enough, your brain wakes up and

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Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know what's going on. She ran

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Speaker 1: her car into a bush. I thought, Yeah, have you've

351
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Speaker 1: seen the hedgerows? Those things are stout? Didn't think, have

352
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Speaker 1: you ever seen I've never seen a small headge in

353
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Speaker 1: England and they're all massive. Yeah. I guess for me,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit like I don't know what caused

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Speaker 1: her to crash her car, So I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if it was crashed well, or to run off the

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Speaker 1: road or whatever. You know, it wasn't in the middle

358
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Speaker 1: of the road. It was off the road for some reason.

359
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Speaker 1: So she might not have you know, this, this head

360
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Speaker 1: injury that we're now talking about, might not even happen

361
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Speaker 1: in the car. It may not have happened at all.

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Speaker 1: It may have been you know, she may have slipped

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Speaker 1: into a few state because because her husband, her mom

364
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Speaker 1: just died and her husband is leaving her, and like

365
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: that's a pretty a small child, pretty high level of stress.

366
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Speaker 1: That is a lot of stress. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: as far as the car thing goes, I'm not sure

368
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Speaker 1: she even crashed. And I think what happened is this

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Speaker 1: was this was early December in Britain. She's driving a

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Speaker 1: British car. What does a British car have in it?

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Speaker 1: Nothing that Lucas electrics, Yeah, which means that the car

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Speaker 1: will just stop running for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: never You never experienced Lucas electrics, so you haven't. I

374
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Speaker 1: drive Japanese cars mostly. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, that's why I

375
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Speaker 1: drive good cars. That's what I donna say. But yeah, yeah,

376
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 1: no reliance, no Robin reliance. Um. So the experts did

377
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: agree on that bit. Just across the board. Everybody said, yes,

378
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Speaker 1: huge state, that's a thing. It's an actual thing. What

379
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Speaker 1: they didn't super agree about is how common it is.

380
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Speaker 1: The answers kind of varied from not uncommon to extremely uncommon.

381
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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, not uncommon is like

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00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: the term that clinicians use when they're like, well, you

383
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Speaker 1: might know somebody who has this happened to them. I don't,

384
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Speaker 1: you know, It's not like I don't know either. I

385
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,239
Speaker 1: had one expert who said that, UM, in all you know,

386
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 1: she's practicing clinician, And she said, in all of her time,

387
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: like twenty years or whatever, and in everybody that she knows,

388
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Speaker 1: none nobody has ever actually encountered, UM, somebody who's been

389
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Speaker 1: in a few state. So I wonder, certain diagnosed this

390
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: come into fashion and and things. More and more of

391
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 1: the medical practicing, psychologist psychological practices seem to keep being

392
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: subdivided into smaller, smaller, more finite answers. So I wonder

393
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: if fugue state was kind of that blanket general term

394
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: they used for this whole group of things they didn't understand.

395
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Speaker 1: And as time has gone on and things have gotten

396
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: more exact, they've kind of abandoned that term or even

397
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: the whole thing, because then, oh no, it's actually this

398
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: one thing, or it's, oh, this other thing. I don't

399
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Speaker 1: think fugue state is an old term. It's that out

400
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: of out of body amnesia is what they used to

401
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 1: call it. FuG state is certainly not a new diagnosis,

402
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: but I also don't think it's particularly old. UM. One

403
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: of the people that I talked to UM said that

404
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: oftentimes people who suffer from PTSD will experience moments of

405
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: these not weeks months, you know, and you you you

406
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: hear stories like there's all those stories of villagers after

407
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: you know, bombs go off, planes drop a gazillion bombs

408
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: and obliterate the town and they're all just kind of

409
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: wandering around, going where what is this place? Where am I?

410
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: What's going on? So, I mean, it's a very famous

411
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Speaker 1: example of a potential we'll maybe do an episode. Is

412
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: Benjamin Kyle. Yeah, if he's not faking it, he is

413
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 1: in a few state. That's that's a thing. Apparently. Well

414
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: if I mean, either he's faking it or he's in

415
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: a few state, those are the only two options he

416
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: needs to snap out of it. Yeah, somebody needs to

417
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: give him a shake, Yeah, because that's I'm sure what cost.

418
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: That always clears it right up. I'm going to shake you. Yeah.

419
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Speaker 1: When I was a kid, this is actually a recurring

420
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: theme and a lot of like comedies like whatever, people

421
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 1: would get it, get hit in the head and they

422
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: would have amnesia. And then while it turns out that

423
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: you know American television, another blow to the head and

424
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 1: the exact same spot will bring your memory back. So

425
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: I didn't somebody hit her on the head with a

426
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: rock really though, or put her in a car and

427
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: shut it down the hill. I mean, the thing is right,

428
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: is it seems like I haven't heard anybody say she

429
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: totally denied it. You know, there's no record of how

430
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: she reacted once somebody was like, hey, you're at the Christie.

431
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: There's no record of how she reacted or anything. And

432
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: it was not really thoroughly investigator. Yeah, they beat the bushes,

433
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: but once they found her, they didn't really question anybody there.

434
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: It seems like, well, it's I think it's because everybody

435
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: was really peeved. She wasted a lot of people's time,

436
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: and obviously that would be a good reason to say

437
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: what she said, which is that I was in a

438
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: huge state or out of body or whatever, I just

439
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: had no memory, because obviously otherwise one up there and

440
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: knowing the papers says that thousands of people are out

441
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 1: looking for her, and she didn't lift a finger to

442
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: let anybody know that she was. Okay, So we'll we'll

443
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 1: talk about this. We're getting a little ahead of ourselves. Yeah.

444
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: So the for option, as we were going to play

445
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: now off pause, is the first serious option is she

446
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: was faking it. So if we go with the experts

447
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: who say it's extremely uncommon for people to experience this

448
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: sort of you know, time lost, lost self fugu state.

449
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: Then we end up with the theory that um Agatha

450
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: was faking it. But why would she fake it? I

451
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: can think of one reason. I can think of a couple. Yeah,

452
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: for real, let's talk about a couple of them, all right.

453
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: The first one is she was attempting to sully the

454
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: name of her husband, right, yeah, n married what twelve

455
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: fourteen years at that point, I mean, she'd been wrong

456
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,919
Speaker 1: pretty seriously. I would say, oh yeah, and they had

457
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: a kid too, don't forget, you know. And so suddenly

458
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, we've been together, we've had

459
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: a kid, and now I want to I'm in love

460
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: with a younger woman. That's kind of rude, But yeah,

461
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it was just a matter

462
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: of sullying his name as Ash, staging a disappearance and

463
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: drawing a lot of attention to that and well than

464
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: basically his romantic getaway for the weekend. Yeah. There's actually

465
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: a quote that I have here um by the author

466
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: of Agatha Christie and the Eleven Missing Days, whose name

467
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: is Jared Cade and he says, quote, hell, hath no fury.

468
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: She wanted to disrupt his weekend with Nancy Neal and

469
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: make him suffer, although she still adored him. What no

470
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: one could have foreseen was the press reaction. She was

471
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: propelled from being an author with a reputation into one

472
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: of the most famous women in England unquote, which I

473
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: think is fair. Right. It's who who says I'm gonna

474
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 1: run away from home for a couple of days with

475
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: the anticipation of a national manhunt. Yeah, you know, I

476
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: think you don't. There's no way you would consider that

477
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: that would ever happen. That it would just be that

478
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: Archie her husband would get word that she was missing,

479
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: and he would say, oh, better go look for her.

480
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: And she would resurface a few days later and say

481
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: see how see how it feels or whatever, I got

482
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 1: you or whatever. But once it gained steam, she couldn't

483
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: get out from under it. Right, That's exactly I mean.

484
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: I think you kind of panic, right if you see

485
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: your face on the front page of the New York

486
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: Times and they're like missing thousands of people looking, well,

487
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: you're not going to be like, oh, I better like

488
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: show up because you're going to see if you can

489
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: find a way to make it go away. Yeah. Last

490
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: the thing is like, by by doing what she did,

491
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: I don't think she really thought through the consequences that, well,

492
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: if she fixed leaving her car in someplace not anywhere

493
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: in New Yorkshire, what they're belonging still in it, you know.

494
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: And then she picks up the papers, sees her name

495
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: in there and her pictures, says, oh, gets in touch

496
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: with the police right away. They go say, well, why

497
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: was your car parked where it was? There's not a

498
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: lot of good explanations for that. And I don't think

499
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: she thought her planned to to really quite carefully enough.

500
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: Oh I'm I'm sure that it wasn't really a plan.

501
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: I I get the feeling that if she did this intentionally,

502
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: it was a bit of I'm going to do this,

503
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: and then she stops, crap, I can't do that, you know,

504
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: like just kind of making it up as she goes along,

505
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, I said i'd go to Yorkshire.

506
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: So I went to Yorkshire and then I checked in

507
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: and I was having a good couple of days and

508
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: then oh, hell, it's all over the news. If I

509
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: come out now, it's gonna be terrible. Oh it's another day.

510
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: It's still terrible. You know, it's just every day just

511
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: hoping it'll go away, it'll die down. Yeah, make um fun. Fact,

512
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: she was actually driving the way she was driving. I

513
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: know you guys were kind of speculating back but first left. Yeah,

514
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: when she first left, because she wasn't driving towards Yorkshire,

515
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: Yorkshire from from their house, and I know that Joe

516
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: does this all the time, so it's my turn to

517
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: do this. Um. She was actually driving towards the place

518
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: where Archie was spending the weekend with his lover. On

519
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: the map, it kind of lines up in the direction

520
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: she was going, so Mary was actually maybe she sat

521
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: down and thought, I'm actually I need to go confront

522
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: him or confront them or whatever. And then car breaks

523
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: down with the great electronics, with great electronics, that's that's

524
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: seriously a possibility. I remember like some years back, in

525
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: front of mine had a chance and heally convertible my

526
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: little Brady sports car that had Lucas electrics in it,

527
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: and we he was living in Newport at the time,

528
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: and we went to a concert in Eugene and night

529
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: it's night night. We're driving back to Newport and well

530
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: the car just crapt out in the middle of nowhere.

531
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: We had to spend the night sleeping in the car. Yeah,

532
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: so she could have been doing it. She could have

533
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: been going to ruin their weekend. She could have been lying,

534
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: faking it because it was a trick gone awry. I

535
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: guess she could have been doing it to stage a disappearance,

536
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: to have his name be sullied. I don't know. Maybe

537
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: she was heading that direction to murder him, and it's unlikely,

538
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: but maybe if bowl Yeah, yeah, but then why she

539
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: went in border to train to some place ELTs She

540
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: was being stupid, Not to be mean, but she's like,

541
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: this is stupid. What am I doing? Not bad idea,

542
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: It's like bad idea became another. Yeah, yeah, imagine you

543
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: know for what Imagine her car did break down. That

544
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: the nearest town is that little town called Guildford or

545
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: whatever it's however was pronounced, and so she walks back

546
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 1: there and just says, he says, you know what, screw

547
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: that car, I'm just gonna get on a train. Yeah,

548
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: or you know, she decides, oh wow, that was crazy talk.

549
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: I need to go take a spaw day and then it,

550
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, gets out from under her again. Don't These

551
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: are all theories, you know. The I didn't have time, unfortunately,

552
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: to read Jared Kade's book about the Missing Eleven Days,

553
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: did I Yeah, if I wish I had, But I

554
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: did read. I did read a few summaries of it.

555
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: Apparently he interviews some of the some of the relatives

556
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: of some of the people who were actually involved in this,

557
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: and they said that she actually concocted this whole scheme

558
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: with one of her friends and actually got some help

559
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: and support from these people. Yeah. I've seen stuff about that. Yeah,

560
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: so that's theory. Serious theory number one. Serious theory number

561
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: two is that she was actually doing it to slowly.

562
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: The name of her husband's lover did sort of bring

563
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: that out of the open, huh that did? I mean,

564
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: you know, it brought that whole situation out in the open.

565
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: But also she did check into the hotel under the

566
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: same last name as her husband's lover, which is kind

567
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: of sketchy, like it's not Neil isn't the most common

568
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: last name, especially if he's just said, oh, I'm leaving

569
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: you from Nancy Neil. So the other little thing that

570
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: I read and I don't I honestly don't remember where

571
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: I read it, but I read that Agatha when she

572
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: was asked why she took the why she gave that

573
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: as her fake name, she actually gave the mailing address

574
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: of the Neil family and said that inquiries regarding this

575
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: matter should be directed there, which is pretty boss, right,

576
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: So that I don't know. In a way though, if

577
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: she was faking it, it kind of worked because I

578
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: don't think she and her husband officially were divorced for

579
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: another year and a half, for another year, another year. Yeah,

580
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: it took. It wasn't like, you know, I mean, they

581
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: had already had their trial separation, which was her reconciliation,

582
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: which didn't work at all. So in a way, she

583
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of got it kind of worked because he had to.

584
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't like he was free to just go about

585
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: with with miss Neil and have an open relationship because

586
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: technically he's still married and that was highly frowned upon. Yeah. Yeah,

587
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: so that's another option. I guess Batley was an attempt

588
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: to just spoil their weekend and maybe shine a little

589
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: bad light of publicity on both of them. But there's

590
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: also the option to that she wasn't faking it that

591
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: she really did go into a few state. I also

592
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: think this is fairly re in a ball. You know,

593
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: Agatha was under a lot of stress, as we mentioned,

594
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: emotionally maybe physically I don't know, but certainly emotionally. She

595
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: had a lot of the stuff that we were talking

596
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: about earlier, and she was It turns out, according to

597
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: most reports, she was really still in love with her

598
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: husband Archie. So it wasn't just the embarrassment of a

599
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: divorce and him taking a lover. It was also the

600
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: heartbreak of you know, him saying, oh I don't love

601
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: you anymore. I'm leaving you for a younger woman. By So,

602
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 1: I don't know, she could have She could have easily

603
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: slipped into a few state even before she left the house.

604
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean, she got in the car, she was driving

605
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: the wrong direction. She could have been confused at that point.

606
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: She could have she could have hit her head in

607
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: the car. You know, in some way, she could have

608
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: slipped into a feug state wall she was driving. That's

609
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, she kind of lost control of the car. Fine,

610
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: and then she gets out and is confused, and so

611
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: basically she could have slipped into that huge state for

612
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: many time, when she was in the house, when she

613
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: left to after she left her car. Yeah, I wouldn't.

614
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: I would say that if if she actually was in

615
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: a few states. It wasn't at the spa like she

616
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: got there and checked it, you know that. Yeah, she

617
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: didn't get such a great massige. Yeah. So yeah, maybe

618
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: maybe it was a car breaking down. Maybe that was

619
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: a less straw. It's yeah, it's possible. Maybe that was it.

620
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: Maybe the car broke down and she just lost it. Literally,

621
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: I need to stop doing this podcast. But no, it

622
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: is stressful. It's super stressful, especially as a woman, you

623
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: know in the English countryside. Just suddenly you know, there's

624
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: nothing you want to be in the next Morrow Murray, Yeah,

625
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: or or the first mor Murray. Yeah, it wouldn't have

626
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: been the next Well I'm just saying. I'm just saying,

627
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: if you're a woman today and you break down, then

628
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: you could be the next Mornure. Yeah yeah, yeah, I

629
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: you know what, Honestly, I'm torn. I don't know, I

630
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I like, I don't know about

631
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: this well I am I'm trying to remember where where

632
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: I where I read this. But she was there for

633
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: like about ten days. I think nobody knows exactly. I

634
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: don't think exactly when, which is weird lit right now,

635
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: she had to go to London and then catch a

636
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: train from London. Supposedly she had some co conspirators in London,

637
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: if you believe that particular theory, she might have stayed

638
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: there for a day or two. And apparently these people

639
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: also helped her out by giving her some cash, um,

640
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: and then she headed on up there. But apparently while

641
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: she was staying there, it happens a week before this

642
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: whole thing happened, she was I think, at Herod's in London,

643
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: and she had lost her ring in the store and

644
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: she um. While she was staying at the bath the hydro,

645
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: she actually wrote a letter to Herod's inquiring about the

646
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: lost ring. Oh yeah, she did, she I believe it

647
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: in the name Agatha Christie. She so it appears that

648
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: she her memory was intact. If this is true. Yeah,

649
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: if that's true, Yeah, it would appear that. But I

650
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,919
Speaker 1: don't know that we can you know, prove it either.

651
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: Well that's it, I mean, I don't I haven't seen

652
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: a copy of the letter. Eventually, the rain was found apparently, Yeah,

653
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: but uh, Yeah. The one thing about Agatha Christie that

654
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: always that makes me wonder if maybe it's not real

655
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: and that she was faking it is. For the most part,

656
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: I never really saw her ever reflected in any way

657
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: as an exceptionally happy person. She hated a lot of things. Yes, um,

658
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: I mean she was a bit of an anti semit

659
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: she was. She also hated her own characters books, uh

660
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: perot and um, what's the marvel? Marvel? Miss Marple hated them?

661
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: Why don't hate them? She was tired of writing about them.

662
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: And she really had created these characters that she said

663
00:36:52,719 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: she detested. It was nineteen five she killed him, um

664
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: pro she had written his death and then put it

665
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: in a safe deposit box with instructions for it to

666
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: be published upon her death. And you know, and then

667
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: she ended up, of course publishing that story just shortly

668
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: before she died, because she knew she was going to pass.

669
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: But she, I mean, in general, just didn't seem like

670
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: a happy person. So I don't know that that suddenly,

671
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: you know, her husband turned the tables on her. I

672
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: can't see it is coming as a shock because if

673
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: she had been that angry or not happy about things

674
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: for a while people tend to know when their relationships

675
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: are on the skins, it does sond like she was

676
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: kind of a hard person to live with. Yeah, there

677
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: was an incident of her throwing a full teak out

678
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: let Archie's head. Yeah, I did not know that. I

679
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if that was before or

680
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: after he asked for the divorce after just I was

681
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: gonna say it was probably just before he's like, that's it,

682
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: good divorce. Yeah, So I don't know. I mean, I

683
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: I think I do break a little bit more towards

684
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: the she faked it. I think that seems more likely.

685
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: But I also know that the mind is capable of

686
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: doing some really weird stuff. And the line is, the

687
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: mind is capable of doing strange things, but it's still

688
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: incredibly rare. Whereas the mind is capable of hatching sneaky

689
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: plots to spell your husband's weekend. So there's much much

690
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: more capable of doing that. But you know, the defense

691
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: mechanisms of your psyche they're pretty they're crazy creative too.

692
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: So like even if you know, if she was never

693
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: really happy and she just got like way way less happy,

694
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: became really really depressed, was dealing with all of this

695
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: emotional baggage and stuff. Those are literally the textbook circumstances

696
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: of somebody going into this kind of few state. So

697
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: it's also not, I think unreasonable to say that it

698
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: could have happened. I wish we had descriptions from the

699
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: staff of how Teresa Neil her assumed name, behaved. If

700
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: she was a totally happy, go lucky kind of person

701
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: that would totally support the fuge to the brain snaps,

702
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: takes a break everything. Like, I wish we had anything

703
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: from the staff. It doesn't even have to be even

704
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: like as much as ah, she reacted poorly when we

705
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: told her that she was not that person, or she

706
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: seemed like she knew that would be super helpful. The

707
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: descriptions I have seen about what the staff said is

708
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: they said that she wasn't holding up in her room.

709
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: She was actually hanging out readings, going to dances. She

710
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: this this was the fun. Like when her husband Archie

711
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: came to retrieve her, she made him wait until she

712
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: had changed into her evening gown, which again, like I

713
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: don't know, like it's never explained how she had those clothes.

714
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: Did she buy them? Did she Yeah, Well, she was

715
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: in London, she could have stopped off and then done

716
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: a little shopping. Yeah, that's so she actually changed into

717
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: her evening gown because it was evening before she came

718
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: and left with him. I mean she seemed to be

719
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: she was socializing. Yeah, and that supports the thing that

720
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: Joe was talking about. It if she had bought those clothes,

721
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: she would have had to stop in London and couldn't

722
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: have gone shopping till the day after she left her house.

723
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 1: Because if she leaves her house and it's dark, okay,

724
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: it's Christmas, that's about five o'clock or so, plus a

725
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: train ride to London, you're gonna get there about nine o'clock.

726
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: Nothing is open in London after nine o'clock. You're not

727
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: going to get there. Well, she left the house at nine,

728
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: I thought. Yeah, I'm saying, I'm saying, best case scenario,

729
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: she leaves when it gets dark, She's still got hours

730
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: before she gets here. There's no way she could have

731
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: made those purchases that same day. She mean, she had

732
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: to have somewhere to stay. Yeah, she might have even

733
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: stayed in Guildford for the night. Yeah, Yeah, she possibly

734
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: could have stayed there. Train in the morning. It might

735
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: not even be that there's a you know, ten o'clock

736
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: PM trained like there wouldn't be. But my yeah, so

737
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: yeah that's our stories. Do you guys have any more thoughts?

738
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: Not really, I'm just I'm just saying it was just

739
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: her being sneaky. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'm waffle

740
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: on this one. Sure, me too. That's kind of how

741
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: I feel. And it is a little bit of a

742
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: shorter show. Sorry. If you follow us on social media,

743
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: you know why. Actually, actually, if you guys would like,

744
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: I can pad it out a little bit by just

745
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: reading something out of a random book. No, that's okay,

746
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, we don't really want any of you.

747
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: We don't need that. So there's gonna be some links

748
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: that we use to research this as well as um

749
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, link to download the podcast on the website.

750
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: The website is, of course, Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

751
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: You can also find us on iTunes. Of course, you

752
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: know that you can leave us a comment and reading

753
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: if you'd like. That helps people find us. We're streaming

754
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: on almost every single thing that you can stream anything

755
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: on anymore. We are on Facebook. We have a page

756
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: and a group. We do have both of those I

757
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: found on Reddit this past weekend that some people were

758
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: confused about that there are two different parts. The group

759
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: is private, so you do have to send a request.

760
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: But check out reddit our subreddit, um, it's just thinking

761
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: Sideways for links to that. You can also find us

762
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter, but it's Thinking Sideways no g um. You

763
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: can always send us an email. That email address is

764
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com, and you can

765
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: find us on Patreon, which is patreon dot com slash

766
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. Thank you pretty much. Sum it up? Yeah,

767
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: I think so too. Tweet cool. Well, I guess have

768
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: a good week everybody, and we'll talk to you later.

769
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: See you next week, folks, Later everybody, Bye, guys,