WEBVTT - Under-Representation in Robotics and AI is Solvable 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.436 Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Junior. Every single 0:00:25.516 --> 0:00:29.556 instance where something has transformed our society for good, there's 0:00:29.596 --> 0:00:32.396 always been this fear. Some of the greatest advancements in 0:00:32.436 --> 0:00:36.876 our society are directly linked to technological breakthroughs. Whether it 0:00:36.956 --> 0:00:41.036 was the wheel, the printing press, or the microchip, the 0:00:41.116 --> 0:00:45.516 world has been transformed from generation to generation. In many cases, 0:00:45.796 --> 0:00:49.596 transformation was not greeted with acceptance and quick adoption, but 0:00:49.716 --> 0:00:54.556 instead with anger, fear, and apprehension. And this is the 0:00:54.636 --> 0:01:00.836 reception that has met artificial intelligence, that potential negative of 0:01:00.876 --> 0:01:06.836 being reliant on this software, on AI, on robotics, that 0:01:06.876 --> 0:01:09.476 the negatives are less than the post as it is. 0:01:09.796 --> 0:01:12.516 But it's not just the fear of reliance on these technologies. 0:01:13.076 --> 0:01:15.996 It's also the fear of the technology magnifying and multiplying 0:01:16.036 --> 0:01:20.316 our worst two intendencies. There have been troubling instances where 0:01:20.356 --> 0:01:23.156 bias and robotics and AI have been identified as a 0:01:23.156 --> 0:01:27.596 potential disqualifying factor for their wide deployment. These systems have 0:01:28.036 --> 0:01:31.356 some aspect of bias, time and time and time again, 0:01:31.796 --> 0:01:35.556 they're still better than the human biases. Doctor Ayanna Howard 0:01:35.676 --> 0:01:37.876 is the Dean of the College of engineering at the 0:01:38.036 --> 0:01:41.516 Ohio State University and one of the few non white 0:01:41.596 --> 0:01:44.796 male roboticists in the field. So I don't think that 0:01:44.836 --> 0:01:47.756 these systems can ever get to zero bias, because there 0:01:47.796 --> 0:01:50.636 will always be a group that the system has not 0:01:50.796 --> 0:01:53.676 interacted with. It might be that it's perfect, as perfect 0:01:53.836 --> 0:01:59.356 is perfect, and then there's an unknown community in South 0:01:59.396 --> 0:02:02.836 Wales somewhere that had never interacted right, and now it 0:02:02.876 --> 0:02:06.196 doesn't work with them. Doctor Howard founded a robotics company 0:02:06.236 --> 0:02:11.556 called zy Robotics. They develop mobile therapies and educational products 0:02:11.556 --> 0:02:15.196 for children with special needs. She firmly believes that the 0:02:15.236 --> 0:02:18.916 proper use of AI and robotics is an invaluable asset 0:02:18.956 --> 0:02:29.716 to humanity. Underrepresentation in robotics and AI is a solvable problem. 0:02:30.316 --> 0:02:32.396 So when I was a kid, me and my sister 0:02:32.676 --> 0:02:35.276 got left at home a lot during the summers, which 0:02:35.316 --> 0:02:38.316 meant that we watched a lot of reruns on television, 0:02:38.636 --> 0:02:40.756 and one of the things that we watched all the 0:02:40.796 --> 0:02:43.516 time was The Biotic Woman, and I heard that that 0:02:43.636 --> 0:02:46.596 was a favorite of yours as well. It was um 0:02:46.716 --> 0:02:50.596 although I will tell you the Beyondic Woman when I 0:02:50.676 --> 0:02:54.116 was young was current, so I'm sure you must have 0:02:54.116 --> 0:02:59.156 saw the reruns, say but yeah, that was that was 0:02:59.196 --> 0:03:01.516 my favorite, and I think what you know, I was 0:03:01.556 --> 0:03:05.796 always into anything that was science fiction, everything from you know, 0:03:05.796 --> 0:03:10.356 Battlestar Galactica, Star Wars. Do you mean the yeah, no, yeah, 0:03:10.396 --> 0:03:12.996 the original, not the ones that they tried to remake 0:03:13.036 --> 0:03:16.236 over and over and over again. Back then it was 0:03:16.276 --> 0:03:21.996 all of it was like new right, it was like fascinating. Yeah. 0:03:22.556 --> 0:03:25.876 So The Beondic Woman was this show where this this 0:03:26.156 --> 0:03:30.276 woman was horribly mangled in like this this horrific car accident, 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:35.756 right like accident, it was a skydiving she would have died, right, 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:42.756 and instead the doctors took her and rebuilt her basically 0:03:42.956 --> 0:03:47.316 added the Beiondic parts and she would go around saving 0:03:47.316 --> 0:03:49.716 the world, which was was it was awesome, but she 0:03:49.836 --> 0:03:52.436 was human, like she had a personality. That was the 0:03:52.876 --> 0:03:56.036 nice thing about that. Yes, like she wasn't exactly a robot, 0:03:56.076 --> 0:03:58.876 but she was like she was a robot. It was 0:03:58.916 --> 0:04:00.596 actually if you think about it, there was only two 0:04:00.636 --> 0:04:03.756 sci fi shows that showed women in like a positive 0:04:03.836 --> 0:04:07.876 superhero light. One was wonder Woman and one was The 0:04:07.996 --> 0:04:10.556 Roonic Woman. So like one of the earliest forms of 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:12.636 a superhero. I saw was the biotic was So I 0:04:12.676 --> 0:04:15.116 appreciate that. But tell me a little bit, how about 0:04:15.156 --> 0:04:18.276 how that watching that show kind of pique your interest 0:04:18.356 --> 0:04:21.396 in STEM. Well, so when I was watching all of 0:04:21.436 --> 0:04:27.116 these things, it also coincided with the time in middle 0:04:27.116 --> 0:04:29.796 school where you have to define the rest of your life. 0:04:30.356 --> 0:04:31.996 So they still do this, right, you have to write 0:04:31.996 --> 0:04:34.156 these essays about what do you want to do when 0:04:34.156 --> 0:04:37.156 you grow up? And so I wanted to build a 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:39.916 broonic women. So that's what I wanted to do. Now. 0:04:39.956 --> 0:04:43.476 Of course, as my teacher said, well, building a bionic 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:47.036 woman is not actually a career, so you have to 0:04:47.036 --> 0:04:50.796 think about, like what label do you want? And so 0:04:51.156 --> 0:04:53.636 originally I thought I wanted to be a doctor because 0:04:53.836 --> 0:04:57.516 that was who put her together. So what changed? I 0:04:57.596 --> 0:05:03.356 took biology and we were dissecting frogs and I remember 0:05:03.396 --> 0:05:05.436 we had to learn how to kill the frogs and 0:05:05.636 --> 0:05:08.196 open them up, right, I mean this was this was 0:05:08.236 --> 0:05:11.156 the days because you had to do this. Yeah, and 0:05:11.316 --> 0:05:13.956 I hated it. I mean I absolutely And I was 0:05:13.996 --> 0:05:15.956 always good at math and science, and I was like, 0:05:16.316 --> 0:05:19.116 I do not like this course. And then I thought, man, 0:05:19.356 --> 0:05:21.636 if I don't like biology, how am I going to 0:05:21.716 --> 0:05:24.516 go to med? School, How am I gonna actually start 0:05:24.636 --> 0:05:28.076 this whole process of being a doctor. But I had 0:05:28.076 --> 0:05:31.556 a teacher who said, hey, why not think about engineering? 0:05:37.196 --> 0:05:39.596 So what is it that you do now? I am 0:05:39.636 --> 0:05:43.396 a roboticist, which means my research and my practice is 0:05:43.436 --> 0:05:49.596 about building, designing, programming robots with the focus on the human, 0:05:50.156 --> 0:05:54.196 improving the human quality of life, with an even more 0:05:54.316 --> 0:05:59.596 focused initiative effort on children, so pediatrics. And you started 0:05:59.596 --> 0:06:05.996 off designing rovers for NASA. So my very first job 0:06:06.636 --> 0:06:11.156 as a roboticist, I was a robotics researcher and my 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:15.836 task was thinking about future rovers and how do we 0:06:16.316 --> 0:06:20.836 enable them to navigate long range traversals on Mars. So 0:06:20.876 --> 0:06:24.156 how did you go from rovers to the types of 0:06:24.276 --> 0:06:27.636 robots that you're making today? You're really thinking about them 0:06:27.676 --> 0:06:32.276 in a way of being assistive towards humans. Yeah, so 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:35.276 I think one of the things about my perception on 0:06:35.756 --> 0:06:39.676 robotics systems is really the reason why I do it 0:06:39.716 --> 0:06:42.636 is to assist us and improve our quality of life. 0:06:42.876 --> 0:06:45.436 And you know, mind you, when I used to talk 0:06:45.436 --> 0:06:48.156 about robotics, the first thing that people would say would 0:06:48.156 --> 0:06:51.076 be like, oh, you're You're the one that is taking 0:06:51.076 --> 0:06:53.236 over the jobs you're the one that took you know, 0:06:53.556 --> 0:06:56.716 a lot of people in manufacturing. I had people say, yeah, 0:06:56.796 --> 0:06:59.716 my grandfather got fired because of your robots, like that 0:06:59.876 --> 0:07:03.596 was a common thing. And I understood that from very 0:07:03.796 --> 0:07:06.436 very early on, and those were not the robots that 0:07:06.476 --> 0:07:09.596 I wanted to build in design. But I think because 0:07:09.636 --> 0:07:14.036 I always understood that I am part of an ecosystem, 0:07:14.076 --> 0:07:17.676 I am part of a community, and my responsibility is 0:07:17.836 --> 0:07:21.916 to become a contributing member of the community. And anything 0:07:21.956 --> 0:07:25.076 I did, because my talent was my mind, anything I 0:07:25.116 --> 0:07:29.076 did was about a overall positive net result versus a 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:31.316 negative you know. I was the kid that had to 0:07:31.316 --> 0:07:34.756 go out into the neighborhood and paint over the graffiti 0:07:34.836 --> 0:07:37.156 and pick up the like that was our Saturday. Like. 0:07:37.236 --> 0:07:38.876 I didn't get to go out and play like the 0:07:38.916 --> 0:07:41.796 other kids until I had done my chores, which was 0:07:42.076 --> 0:07:44.716 you know, all of these community kind of things. And 0:07:44.756 --> 0:07:47.556 so I think I just grew up realizing that it 0:07:47.636 --> 0:07:51.156 was about community. But also my talent was my mind. 0:07:51.236 --> 0:07:54.916 It was how I designed a thought about robotics. When 0:07:54.916 --> 0:07:57.116 it comes to the types of robots you designed to 0:07:57.196 --> 0:08:01.236 help people who have disabilities, is there anything personal that 0:08:01.276 --> 0:08:04.116 happened to you that made you connect with them specifically. 0:08:04.956 --> 0:08:09.756 I had always done these stems, so science, alogy, engineering, 0:08:09.756 --> 0:08:14.836 and math camps primarily to engage girls and I'll say 0:08:14.876 --> 0:08:17.916 underrepresented minority, since that's what we were called back in 0:08:17.996 --> 0:08:21.356 the day. I had ran this one camp where there 0:08:21.396 --> 0:08:24.556 was this young lady who had a visual impairment. She 0:08:24.716 --> 0:08:28.756 was bright, bright, like smart, but the system did not 0:08:28.796 --> 0:08:32.116 work for her because it wasn't accessible. And this was 0:08:32.156 --> 0:08:33.996 the first time I'd heard this, were like, what is 0:08:34.036 --> 0:08:37.676 accessible and what is assessively technology? Because I hadn't no idea, 0:08:37.756 --> 0:08:40.276 And what it was is like I saw a problem. 0:08:40.356 --> 0:08:43.396 I was like this, like makes no sense. Why is 0:08:43.396 --> 0:08:48.196 our technology not able to be used by everyone? As 0:08:48.236 --> 0:08:51.836 an engineer, you know, I see these kinds of problems 0:08:52.036 --> 0:08:54.916 as basically a challenge to design a solution. It's just 0:08:54.956 --> 0:08:58.516 the way I'm geared and think about it. And so 0:08:58.556 --> 0:09:02.196 that started me down this rabbit hole of looking at 0:09:02.196 --> 0:09:07.676 this target demographic understanding that we as engineers aren't really 0:09:07.716 --> 0:09:11.316 addressing the needs of all the different populations. And I 0:09:11.396 --> 0:09:15.476 was always a proponent of diversity, and I didn't really 0:09:15.556 --> 0:09:19.956 understand until that moment that diversity includes raise includes ethnicity, 0:09:19.996 --> 0:09:23.996 includes gender, but it also includes ability and disability. So 0:09:24.076 --> 0:09:27.956 you have a number of apps, games, and toys all 0:09:28.076 --> 0:09:31.956 under their company, zy Robotics. Is there a particular product 0:09:31.996 --> 0:09:35.836 that you're like, you're especially proud of. I actually enjoy 0:09:35.996 --> 0:09:39.356 all of them. I will say the one that I 0:09:39.516 --> 0:09:43.516 especially like is one called Tommy the Turtle. Learn to Code. 0:09:43.796 --> 0:09:46.236 Help your kids learn the basic of coding with Tommy 0:09:46.316 --> 0:09:49.356 the Turtle. Your little one will absolutely love interacting with 0:09:49.396 --> 0:09:52.836 Tommy and his colorful friends as they gain valuable skills 0:09:52.956 --> 0:09:55.636 in programming. I can get a four year old to 0:09:55.716 --> 0:09:58.836 learn how to code and love it. And you basically 0:09:59.036 --> 0:10:02.356 have to do things like, you know, Tommy wants to 0:10:02.396 --> 0:10:06.036 play with cat, but cats too far away. Can Tommy 0:10:06.156 --> 0:10:08.756 move towards cats so they can play right? And so 0:10:08.796 --> 0:10:11.396 there's a always these this you know, goofy rhyming and stuff, 0:10:11.636 --> 0:10:14.596 and so then it'll go through like okay, in order 0:10:14.636 --> 0:10:16.076 to do this, you know, you have to put in 0:10:16.116 --> 0:10:19.756 this little button which is move one space right, and 0:10:19.796 --> 0:10:22.396 so it walks you through this and at the end 0:10:22.436 --> 0:10:25.396 it says, guess what you've done your first coding program. 0:10:25.756 --> 0:10:28.156 Now let's try it with dog. And so it basically 0:10:28.156 --> 0:10:33.276 builds up this sequential understanding sequences, understanding logic with the 0:10:33.356 --> 0:10:37.716 subjective of again having friends, playing around and things like that. 0:10:38.076 --> 0:10:41.196 And the Tommy to try to learn to code is 0:10:41.236 --> 0:10:44.236 also accessible, so if you have a children within motor disability, 0:10:44.276 --> 0:10:47.836 it actually has accessibility functions so you can use things 0:10:47.876 --> 0:10:51.676 like switch devices. If you have slight visual impairments, there 0:10:51.676 --> 0:10:54.476 are things you can do with the print. So I'm 0:10:54.516 --> 0:10:57.796 most proud of that because I've actually seen like four 0:10:57.876 --> 0:11:02.316 year olds like excited about coding, which is amazing and fascinating. 0:11:02.956 --> 0:11:06.076 What types of benefits do you think children with disabilities 0:11:06.116 --> 0:11:09.836 received from working with robots that you design? So one 0:11:09.836 --> 0:11:14.716 of the things that we know is that with anything repetition, repetition, 0:11:14.716 --> 0:11:18.316 repetition is good. The problem is is that the amount 0:11:18.316 --> 0:11:20.836 of and I'll just call it exercise, which is repetition, 0:11:20.916 --> 0:11:23.156 The amount of exercise you have to do has to 0:11:23.196 --> 0:11:26.396 be done consistently, has to be done in a repeated fashion, 0:11:26.756 --> 0:11:29.436 and typically you need someone to kind of guide you 0:11:29.476 --> 0:11:32.796 because you know, they're kids, and we just don't have 0:11:33.036 --> 0:11:36.996 enough resources. So most parents do not have are not 0:11:37.036 --> 0:11:40.196 as privilege enough to bring in a human therapist into 0:11:40.236 --> 0:11:43.676 the home every day to work with their child, And 0:11:43.756 --> 0:11:48.196 so what we focused on was designing these robotic systems 0:11:48.236 --> 0:11:50.876 that are adaptive so they have artificial intelligence in them 0:11:51.276 --> 0:11:54.956 so that they can work with the kids basically every day. 0:11:55.276 --> 0:11:59.196 So they are augmenting the services of a human therapist. 0:11:59.276 --> 0:12:02.556 But in the home environment. Did you see an uptick 0:12:02.756 --> 0:12:07.316 in people being interested in this type of technology during 0:12:07.356 --> 0:12:10.316 COVID when you wasn't so easy to have like a 0:12:10.436 --> 0:12:14.156 human aid in the house to help with children with disabilities? Yeah, 0:12:14.156 --> 0:12:17.356 so I will say yes, and that goes across the 0:12:17.396 --> 0:12:22.276 board in terms of AI, so artificial intelligence software as 0:12:22.316 --> 0:12:25.076 well as robots. There was an uptick in the use 0:12:25.356 --> 0:12:29.716 since March of twenty twenty, and it's primarily because of 0:12:29.756 --> 0:12:34.156 the fact that you know, humans were dangerous, right, like 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:35.836 we know this. This was the whole thing is like 0:12:35.996 --> 0:12:38.876 you're shut in. You're locked in because other humans who 0:12:38.876 --> 0:12:41.996 are outside of your community, outside of your home are dangerous, 0:12:42.316 --> 0:12:45.156 whereas robots were not. And so there was this whole 0:12:45.476 --> 0:12:50.156 change and shift on the perception of robots, like robots 0:12:50.236 --> 0:12:54.996 were more of like, oh, this actually enables me to 0:12:55.236 --> 0:12:59.556 have a little bit of semblance of livelihood. And we 0:12:59.596 --> 0:13:03.756 saw an uptick in companion robots because again, you couldn't 0:13:03.796 --> 0:13:07.036 have you know, your young grandkids, for example, coming in, 0:13:07.356 --> 0:13:11.116 or therapists necessarily come in, but robots could because they 0:13:11.156 --> 0:13:16.116 were safer than people. There's folks that feel like our 0:13:16.156 --> 0:13:19.676 addiction and technology is a problem, and building technology that 0:13:19.716 --> 0:13:24.636 assists humans in whatever capacity kind of builds on that 0:13:24.716 --> 0:13:27.676 addiction a little bit, or it feeds into that addiction. Rather, 0:13:28.116 --> 0:13:31.076 what's your response to that to people that would would 0:13:31.076 --> 0:13:34.356 say that maybe we need less technology and not more. Yeah, 0:13:34.396 --> 0:13:37.916 So I actually have two answers to that. One is, yes, 0:13:37.996 --> 0:13:40.916 it does feed on these addictions. Like my robots would 0:13:40.956 --> 0:13:44.316 not work if I didn't model them based on humans 0:13:44.356 --> 0:13:47.796 propensity to interact with these systems, right, it wouldn't work. 0:13:48.036 --> 0:13:50.756 So we know that as a fact. But I would 0:13:50.796 --> 0:13:56.476 say that that potential negative of being reliant on the 0:13:56.836 --> 0:14:01.756 software on AI on robotis that the negatives are less 0:14:01.756 --> 0:14:05.836 than the positives, and the positives are. It improves so 0:14:05.836 --> 0:14:10.236 so many things. It makes access much more accessible in 0:14:10.396 --> 0:14:15.916 terms of you know, equal opportunity about jobs, education, food sources, 0:14:15.916 --> 0:14:19.276 and things like that. So the positives I think outweigh 0:14:19.356 --> 0:14:21.956 the negatives over and over and over and over again. 0:14:23.196 --> 0:14:25.876 When you see this type of interaction and you see, 0:14:26.796 --> 0:14:30.916 you know, children interacted with the technology you've created and 0:14:30.916 --> 0:14:33.316 the tools that you've created. How do you feel like, 0:14:33.396 --> 0:14:35.316 how does that make you feel to see them interacting 0:14:35.316 --> 0:14:39.556 with it successfully? My very first moment, I remember it 0:14:39.596 --> 0:14:41.836 to this day. We were this is at Georgia Tech. 0:14:41.876 --> 0:14:44.996 It was one of our very first studies. We had 0:14:45.036 --> 0:14:50.316 a gamified therapy protocol called Superpop. We had to pop 0:14:50.356 --> 0:14:53.956 these bubbles and it was linked to some movement therapy. 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:56.036 So I remember we go into the home and there 0:14:56.116 --> 0:14:59.516 was this young child, child with cerebral palsy who was 0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:04.636 in a wheelchair and severe sebesticity, so very limited movements. 0:15:05.036 --> 0:15:07.516 And I remember the game because the game adapts to 0:15:07.676 --> 0:15:09.796 the abilities of the child, and so you know, the 0:15:09.876 --> 0:15:12.276 very first one, it started adapting and started adapting. And 0:15:12.316 --> 0:15:16.436 I remember at one instance, this child touched the bubble 0:15:16.476 --> 0:15:19.516 because it's popping bubbles, right, and I just I remember 0:15:19.716 --> 0:15:23.276 like there was this smile. It was like the sun 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:26.436 like shone in this room. It was like all of 0:15:26.476 --> 0:15:28.716 the wats that are out there, it just shone in 0:15:28.756 --> 0:15:31.956 his face, pure joy, and it was like you you 0:15:31.956 --> 0:15:35.836 couldn't have sold it. You couldn't have bottled it. You 0:15:35.876 --> 0:15:38.996 couldn't have like bitcoined it right. It was like that 0:15:39.076 --> 0:15:42.756 pure joy that only a child could show. And at 0:15:42.756 --> 0:15:44.996 that point that was like my first moment going like, 0:15:45.116 --> 0:15:48.196 oh my gosh, I feel really really really really good. 0:15:48.356 --> 0:15:51.036 I like this feeling, I really do. It makes me 0:15:51.116 --> 0:15:54.956 realize that I'm doing the right thing, impacting directly someone's life. 0:16:00.716 --> 0:16:04.716 You're now working with children with disabilities, specifically in pediatrics, 0:16:04.836 --> 0:16:07.356 and you know you said you got there because you 0:16:07.436 --> 0:16:10.796 first wanted to work with with women, and being a 0:16:10.836 --> 0:16:14.196 woman in STEM, I know, is not the easiest path 0:16:14.316 --> 0:16:17.276 for most Do you find that you had any personal 0:16:17.316 --> 0:16:19.876 experiences that kind of led you to say that I 0:16:19.916 --> 0:16:21.876 want to kind of kick the ladder down for more 0:16:21.916 --> 0:16:26.076 women to come into this field. Yes, when I started 0:16:26.636 --> 0:16:29.596 at NASA and things like that, I was always passionate 0:16:29.636 --> 0:16:34.356 about working in with young kids. Actually, even in undergrad 0:16:34.356 --> 0:16:37.316 I tutored at the local high school and things like that. 0:16:37.676 --> 0:16:40.556 So I'd always done that just because I remember growing up, 0:16:40.876 --> 0:16:43.116 you know, engineers would come to my school and I 0:16:43.156 --> 0:16:45.036 was inspired, and so I just felt that that was 0:16:45.076 --> 0:16:49.356 a responsibility as an engineer. I didn't really feel that 0:16:49.636 --> 0:16:53.236 I had a responsibility to be quote unquote, I guess 0:16:53.236 --> 0:16:57.196 a role model until I was much older, and it 0:16:57.276 --> 0:17:01.156 was because I suddenly realized that I was tired of 0:17:01.196 --> 0:17:06.076 not seeing myself and therefore, like, I'm old, So it's 0:17:06.116 --> 0:17:08.756 not like I can produce myself right now, that's my 0:17:08.836 --> 0:17:13.276 age age, but I sure could start reaching and making 0:17:13.316 --> 0:17:17.756 sure that the generation behind me saw themselves and didn't 0:17:17.756 --> 0:17:20.036 have to go through the same things. And so it 0:17:20.116 --> 0:17:22.716 then became more of a mission than you know, things 0:17:22.756 --> 0:17:24.396 like oh I'm doing out right now here. No no, no no, no, 0:17:24.516 --> 0:17:26.996 it's a mission because it sucks when you don't see yourself. 0:17:27.716 --> 0:17:31.676 Are you speaking specifically about women? Are also specifically about 0:17:31.716 --> 0:17:36.636 black women? So I actually have three. It's women marginalized community, 0:17:36.756 --> 0:17:40.316 so black, Latin X, Indigenous, and it's also black women. 0:17:40.356 --> 0:17:44.316 So it was actually three because those three there's not 0:17:44.396 --> 0:17:47.596 a lot of us in any stages at the upper echelon, 0:17:47.676 --> 0:17:51.596 it's not a lot. How do you think enfranchising those 0:17:51.596 --> 0:17:54.236 groups that you're talking about, how do you think that's solved? 0:17:54.236 --> 0:17:57.156 Do you think it's just solved with them just seeing 0:17:57.156 --> 0:17:59.076 you in the room? Ward? What's the extra step you 0:17:59.076 --> 0:18:01.836 feel that needs to be taken in order to draw 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:04.756 more of those people into the room. Yeah, so being 0:18:04.796 --> 0:18:07.836 able to see yourself is only the first step, but 0:18:07.996 --> 0:18:10.236 it is an important step because if you don't even 0:18:10.276 --> 0:18:12.316 see yourself, you're not even going to think that it's 0:18:12.356 --> 0:18:14.516 something for you. Right. So one is about, you know, 0:18:14.556 --> 0:18:18.556 getting this motivation. The other is about ensuring that there's opportunities. 0:18:18.836 --> 0:18:22.156 And so you know, if I see myself, but I 0:18:22.196 --> 0:18:25.876 don't have access, I don't have the curriculum in the schools, 0:18:26.356 --> 0:18:28.316 I don't know, you know, where am I supposed to 0:18:28.356 --> 0:18:30.796 go in order to learn how to do artificial intelligence 0:18:30.876 --> 0:18:34.276 or robotics? Then I might see myself, but I don't 0:18:34.276 --> 0:18:36.836 have a path for it, right, And so it's about 0:18:36.876 --> 0:18:40.036 seeing yourself, believing in that, and then having the opportunities 0:18:40.076 --> 0:18:44.756 to excel. Irrespective of your environment or how you're growing up, 0:18:44.796 --> 0:18:54.516 are those individuals who are around you. So there's a 0:18:54.516 --> 0:18:58.156 lot of people that are afraid of a future with 0:18:58.316 --> 0:19:01.396 robots at it. What would you say? How would you 0:19:02.036 --> 0:19:03.676 talk to about and and you know what, I was 0:19:03.716 --> 0:19:05.796 one of those people. I watched I robot and I 0:19:05.876 --> 0:19:08.676 was like, no, no, not like that. That. What it's 0:19:08.716 --> 0:19:11.996 easy to anything these days? What do you think the 0:19:12.036 --> 0:19:14.436 future looks like with robots in it. As a roboticist, 0:19:14.476 --> 0:19:16.716 what do you think that future? And actually, and I'm 0:19:16.756 --> 0:19:19.436 sorry to take another step back, but those those Boston 0:19:19.516 --> 0:19:22.356 Dynamics videos are really scary people when they see the 0:19:22.436 --> 0:19:24.676 robots though in the backflips. And of course we've all 0:19:24.676 --> 0:19:27.316 seen the Matrix. I'm now referencing all the movies. But 0:19:27.756 --> 0:19:29.476 what would you say to people who have a fear 0:19:29.556 --> 0:19:33.556 of the future with robots in it. The fear that 0:19:33.596 --> 0:19:39.116 people have, honestly is the fear of the uncertainty, which 0:19:39.476 --> 0:19:42.196 you're going to have irrespective of what it is. You know, 0:19:42.236 --> 0:19:44.396 I think about you know, horse and carriage and the 0:19:44.396 --> 0:19:47.516 cars came. I'm sure there were people like, oh, automobiles, 0:19:47.556 --> 0:19:50.356 you know they kill people like people die in automobiles. 0:19:50.356 --> 0:19:52.756 Why would you ever get it? Right? Like every single 0:19:52.876 --> 0:19:56.876 instance where something has transformed our society for good, there's 0:19:56.916 --> 0:19:59.956 always been this fear always always. We can go historically 0:19:59.956 --> 0:20:04.036 when this has happened. And so robots in AI, artificial 0:20:04.036 --> 0:20:07.956 intelligence is now that technology that is causing fear because 0:20:07.996 --> 0:20:12.076 of the uncertainty. And this is happening and whether you 0:20:12.236 --> 0:20:15.116 like it or not, whether you're afraid or not, it 0:20:15.196 --> 0:20:19.236 is happening, and it will accelerate period guaranteed. And so 0:20:19.276 --> 0:20:22.996 what I say is figure out how to become part 0:20:23.036 --> 0:20:26.316 of the solution. If you're you know, fearful of the 0:20:26.436 --> 0:20:29.516 I robots are feel full of, you know, bossing dynamics 0:20:29.596 --> 0:20:32.556 kind of thing, well, become a computer scientist and go 0:20:32.636 --> 0:20:36.196 work for those companies so that you don't have those 0:20:36.316 --> 0:20:39.076 kind of robots being developed. Right, Like, this is like 0:20:39.316 --> 0:20:42.716 part of the solution and also allows you to conquer 0:20:42.756 --> 0:20:46.356 your fear but also take charge of your future. I 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:48.476 don't know why the idea of me taking years and 0:20:48.556 --> 0:20:50.756 years of trigonometry just so I could go into box 0:20:50.796 --> 0:20:53.476 of dynamics and be like, hey, what's going on in here? 0:20:53.596 --> 0:20:56.676 What do you guys do these robots just sounded very, 0:20:56.796 --> 0:20:59.836 very funny to me. But I love that. I think 0:20:59.836 --> 0:21:02.876 that's a great solution. Well someone will hopefully someone's listening. 0:21:02.876 --> 0:21:06.356 It's like, yeah, I love that idea. I'm doing it now. 0:21:12.836 --> 0:21:15.556 Can we expand on the bias and racism forbid it? 0:21:15.996 --> 0:21:18.236 Those stories do come to life, and I feel like 0:21:18.676 --> 0:21:20.836 there has been some truth to some of them in 0:21:20.876 --> 0:21:23.076 the research that I've done. Can you talk a little 0:21:23.116 --> 0:21:25.596 bit about maybe dispel some of the some of the 0:21:25.636 --> 0:21:27.916 fear that folks are having when it comes to bias 0:21:27.916 --> 0:21:31.316 and racism from artificial intelligence and front robots, Like, what 0:21:31.676 --> 0:21:35.036 exactly are we seeing there? Yeah, so there is there 0:21:35.116 --> 0:21:37.756 is truth. So a lot of the systems that are 0:21:37.796 --> 0:21:42.196 deployed that are out there have aspects of bias. And 0:21:42.716 --> 0:21:46.436 what the definition of bias is that there are differences 0:21:46.476 --> 0:21:51.316 in the results in their behaviors toward different types of 0:21:51.316 --> 0:21:57.996 people based on gender, based on racial, ethnic identity, sexual orientation, religion, 0:21:58.236 --> 0:22:01.116 like basically any type of attribute you can think about. 0:22:01.876 --> 0:22:06.316 These systems have some aspect of bias. So that's the negative. 0:22:06.876 --> 0:22:11.636 The positive, though, is that time and time and time again, 0:22:12.076 --> 0:22:15.236 they're still better than the human biases. I think our 0:22:15.236 --> 0:22:17.836 systems can be better. I honestly think we can design 0:22:17.956 --> 0:22:21.116 and build robots that can make us better humans, that 0:22:21.156 --> 0:22:24.116 can make us less biased humans. I totally believe that. 0:22:24.476 --> 0:22:27.476 But unless we really focus on that, we're just going 0:22:27.556 --> 0:22:30.396 to keep doing the same thing and propagate and just 0:22:30.476 --> 0:22:33.876 continuing the biases that we have of the past. That's 0:22:33.996 --> 0:22:37.116 what I'm afraid of. What do you say to the 0:22:37.156 --> 0:22:40.356 activists who just heard this and heard you say that 0:22:40.596 --> 0:22:43.556 robots are biased but less biased. How do you call 0:22:43.676 --> 0:22:46.316 dib down to say, to get because I'm sure what 0:22:46.396 --> 0:22:47.876 people are going to want to hear you say is 0:22:47.876 --> 0:22:49.996 like they're not biased at all. Like we get there, 0:22:50.116 --> 0:22:52.156 we get to a place where we're using these machines 0:22:52.436 --> 0:22:54.956 and the data we're feeding into them and the way 0:22:54.956 --> 0:22:57.716 that they're interacting with the world makes them get down 0:22:57.716 --> 0:23:00.516 to zero bias. Is it even possible for that to 0:23:00.556 --> 0:23:03.556 happen when they live in a world with biased humans 0:23:03.556 --> 0:23:06.196 creating robots? Yeah? No. So I don't think that these 0:23:06.196 --> 0:23:09.116 systems can ever get to zero bias because there will 0:23:09.196 --> 0:23:12.636 always be a group that the system has not interacted with. 0:23:12.916 --> 0:23:15.436 It might be that it's perfect, as perfect is perfect, 0:23:15.476 --> 0:23:21.436 and then there's an unknown community in South Wales somewhere 0:23:21.916 --> 0:23:24.476 that had never interacted, right, and now it doesn't work 0:23:24.476 --> 0:23:26.676 with them, right. So I don't think that we can 0:23:26.716 --> 0:23:29.996 ever get because as humans, we're unique and we're different, 0:23:30.076 --> 0:23:33.196 Like there's an attribute that we're going to miss. So 0:23:33.236 --> 0:23:36.076 I don't believe in zero bias. What I do believe, though, 0:23:36.236 --> 0:23:39.996 is that because these systems are based on data and 0:23:40.036 --> 0:23:43.196 they're not based on our lived experiences, it means that 0:23:43.276 --> 0:23:46.916 you can basically quiz them. You can look at them, right, 0:23:46.956 --> 0:23:49.916 So you can basically say, look, I have you know, 0:23:49.996 --> 0:23:54.516 this person who is from a rural community that is 0:23:54.676 --> 0:23:58.596 identifies as black. That's female, and I have the exact 0:23:58.636 --> 0:24:00.956