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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little lone fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite TV shows, movies, music,

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Speaker 2: and more. We are your two bodyguards of Byzantine oral histories.

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Speaker 1: I'm Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan vont Talk.

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Speaker 2: I could have died. I don't know that one, and

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Speaker 2: that one didn't feel so good. We'll get it back.

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Speaker 2: I really just wanted to open this up and be like,

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Speaker 2: hello everyone, to welcome too Much informsion.

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Speaker 1: I'm me eye.

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Speaker 2: Put in the proverbial uh heart ahead of the horse. There,

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Speaker 2: I have a whole preamble.

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Speaker 1: Forget it. We're a hundred episodes in. I'm out of

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Speaker 1: here anymore.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Dolly Parton and Whitney Houston's I Will

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Speaker 2: Always Love You, I Love I Love Dolly partonnver.

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Speaker 1: Really discussed this. I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: How deep, so deep fathoms She's like probably the only

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Speaker 2: I mean she first of all, you know, you know

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Speaker 2: my love of brassy southern woman.

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Speaker 1: That's true, that is true. I think of more Reba

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Speaker 1: though than Dolly.

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Speaker 2: I do like Reba, but no, Dolly's. I think she's

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Speaker 2: so beautiful and you know, such an incredible songwriter. And

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Speaker 2: kind of the record that I think that I love

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Speaker 2: the most from her is the trio. Have you ever

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Speaker 2: heard that record she Harris and Linda Ronstack. Yes, that's right,

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Speaker 2: incredible record. And there's a record that she does with

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Speaker 2: Chad Atkins and she does do I ever cross your mind?

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Speaker 1: On that?

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Speaker 2: And she does wow her like spoken word interjections on

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Speaker 2: that make my heart sing like I'm a six year

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Speaker 2: old boy. She's like at one point she's like she's like,

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Speaker 2: she's like, she does the fingerpicking part and she's like,

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Speaker 2: see that that good part on there ain't all chit.

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Speaker 1: And then the end of it.

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Speaker 2: The end of it, It just warms my heart anew

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Speaker 2: every timee because she just goes, uh, they like the

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Speaker 2: song raps and she just she laughs and she just goes,

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Speaker 2: I love you and I've always.

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Speaker 1: She's talking to me. Wait, I can't believe you said

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Speaker 1: that she makes your heart sing like a six year

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Speaker 1: old boy, because I must have told you this at

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Speaker 1: some point over the course of our friendship, maybe even

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Speaker 1: on one of these shows. My first sort of I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you'd call it a crush. It was

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Speaker 1: an audio crush. It was the sound of Dolly Parton,

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Speaker 1: who I used to call Polly Darton as a five

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Speaker 1: year old kid, singing sleigh ride on one of the

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Speaker 1: Time Life Christmas like compilation albums. That's really funny. And

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Speaker 1: I just thought, like that voice, Like I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what she looked like, but that voice I just

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Speaker 1: thought was the most beautiful voice I had ever heard.

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Speaker 1: And it was a lot of like you said, like

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Speaker 1: spoken more little interjections of points. And she's just so

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Speaker 1: endlessly charming. Man.

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Speaker 2: She's such a I mean, this is the second time

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Speaker 2: in comparison, I made this in two weeks. But she's

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Speaker 2: like Beyonce, like just being being a songwriter, musician, singer,

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Speaker 2: business woman, really like the business side of things. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we talk about how like you know, she really pretty

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Speaker 2: early on was like, no, I need to have my publishing,

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Speaker 2: Like I need to be in charge of my business.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we got a vaccine partially out of

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Speaker 2: Dolly like she.

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Speaker 1: Like, and she's she given away a million books or

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Speaker 1: was it a billion? There was some phenomenal number of

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Speaker 1: books she's given away.

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Speaker 2: To Oh, children her like, yeah, her literacy thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's just a force of good in the world. And

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Speaker 2: you know not to and that Whitney Houston was no sloucheat,

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Speaker 2: you know, not for nothing.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that lady could sing. Yeah. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I I my like Skyscraper voiced like R and B

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Speaker 2: singer era is you know, a good ten to twenty

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Speaker 2: thirty even years before Whitney. But I mean we grew

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Speaker 2: up in her Imperial era sort of, so like I

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Speaker 2: definitely remember, you know, the national anthem performance, this song

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Speaker 2: Bodyguard and then and then the Darkness.

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Speaker 1: That's funny. I remember mostly the Darkness. I I was

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Speaker 1: Mariah Carey was the one. It was forefront for me.

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Speaker 2: They're different, They're different, Yeah, I mean Whitney's thing is.

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Speaker 2: I think Whitney's has that, like she's like a torch singer,

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Speaker 2: a little bit more than agility. And because I don't

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Speaker 2: think of her as a big run person, even though

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Speaker 2: she grew up in like the church and you know

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Speaker 2: that the Christen family. But I I her in the

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Speaker 2: the USA track suit is so iconic bowl yeah, like.

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Speaker 1: Days after the Iraq one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Iraq one.

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Speaker 2: Uh Yeah, I don't know, great song, great song from

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Speaker 2: both of them. Incredible American women in every way. What

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Speaker 2: do you have to say about this?

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Speaker 1: This one the only thing that I really have to

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Speaker 1: say that we haven't touched on. It really goes back

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Speaker 1: to my days as a wedding DJ, where really disproportionate

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Speaker 1: number of people would insist on me playing I Will

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Speaker 1: Always Love You at the wedding reception. It's definitely got

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Speaker 1: to be one of the most all time like misunderstood songs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like Born in the USA, Yeah, yeah, it was I

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Speaker 1: Will Always Love You and Every Breath You Take were

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Speaker 1: the two songs and the classic yeah, like they never

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Speaker 1: wanted to play because I was like, do have you

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Speaker 1: ever really listened to the lyrics for this? And it

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Speaker 1: was always some angry groom a couple drinks in sweaty

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Speaker 1: just sort of coming up to me like insisting I

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Speaker 1: play it. And I would, but uh, it's a tough

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Speaker 1: sell to wedding. Did you skip the acapella part? Depends?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it would be like the wedding party would come

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Speaker 1: into that and then the big moment the bride and

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Speaker 1: groom would be which again, the fact that that's the

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Speaker 1: song that you like have your first dance too. It's

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Speaker 1: like man like, people don't listen to the lyrics, no no,

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Speaker 1: and it's a dirt too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's that's what's so funny when we get

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Speaker 2: to why they what song they wanted to make work

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Speaker 2: with this arrangement and sort of the musical aspects of

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Speaker 2: it is just like, but that's got to be one

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Speaker 2: of the all time greatest snare hits too.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you a secret? If you put it

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Speaker 1: go on on to my head? I don't think I

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Speaker 1: would be able to sing you the verses of I

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Speaker 1: would love you, I don't like there's no verse noonically,

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Speaker 1: there's the chorus.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because it is really a song that relies

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Speaker 2: on the charms of the person singing it to get

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Speaker 2: over on it. And it's at one of the interviews

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Speaker 2: that I read about it that I didn't really put

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Speaker 2: into this was how many people some UK you know,

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Speaker 2: one of their endless processions of singing talent garbage shows,

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Speaker 2: one of the judges being like, do you know how

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Speaker 2: many people come in and sing this as their audition

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Speaker 2: song or want to make it their big like piece

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Speaker 2: on the on the show, And we just always try

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Speaker 2: and talk them out of it because a it is

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Speaker 2: more of a solog than you think. It's like the

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Speaker 2: person who does like total clips of the heart at carryok.

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Speaker 2: Like this song is longer than you think, it is

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Speaker 2: harder than you think it is, and the part that

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Speaker 2: it sticks out in everyone's mind is the phenomenally athletic

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Speaker 2: chorus that is really hard to nail, and.

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Speaker 1: The rest of it is just boring as hell. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have.

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Speaker 2: This parlor obsession with songs that are one good idea,

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Speaker 2: Like I think the last I think what actually sparked

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Speaker 2: it was Steve Winwood's Higher Love Oh Yeah, which also

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Speaker 2: coincidentally a Whitney song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, go ahead and go ahead.

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Speaker 2: And name any part of that song that isn't that

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Speaker 2: awesome chorus. Yeah, it's funny. I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: We have a segue, uh well, from the complicated relationship

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Speaker 2: part and had with the man who inspired the song

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Speaker 2: to the fact that it wasn't even originally intended for

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Speaker 2: The Bodyguard to its world conquering success and long legacy.

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Speaker 2: Here's everything you didn't know about I Will Always Love You.

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Speaker 2: Dolly Parton's career at least in its early days was

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Speaker 2: pretty inextricable from another country legend named Porter.

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Speaker 1: I barely knew her Wagoner.

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Speaker 2: Dolly was born in nineteen forty seven, and she moved

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Speaker 2: to Nashville the day after she graduated high school in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four. She signed a publishing deal pretty early

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Speaker 2: the company called Combine Publishing, and wrote a bunch of

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Speaker 2: hits for other artists, with occasionally her uncle Bill Owens,

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Speaker 2: her songwriting partner.

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Speaker 1: Bill Phillips, Skeeter Davis.

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Speaker 2: She had other songs recorded by Kitty Wells Hank Williams Junior.

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Speaker 2: So she had some pretty you know, some success as

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Speaker 2: far as songwriting, and she signed with Monument Records a

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Speaker 2: year later in nineteen sixty five, when she was nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Only one of her.

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Speaker 2: Singles from this time, though, charted, and she didn't really

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Speaker 2: have much success until nineteen sixty seven's Hello I'm Dolly,

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Speaker 2: which collected a bunch of these singles, her first big one,

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Speaker 2: which she didn't even write, dumb Blonde.

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Speaker 1: I have a question for you, Hello I'm Dolly. Is

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Speaker 1: that a Johnny Cash? No? I thought it would. It

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Speaker 1: was my Hello Dolly the musical. Oh that's equally good. Oh,

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Speaker 1: my Dolly Parton is kind of in really every way,

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Speaker 1: both visually and spiritually, the inverse of the Man in Black.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, especially when you consider that she was

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Speaker 2: having trouble early in this era because people made fun

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Speaker 2: of her voice.

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Speaker 1: All the time.

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Speaker 2: They were like, crazy to me, this, yeah, she's a

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Speaker 2: soprano and she has a very girly sounding voice.

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Speaker 1: Was the big knock.

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Speaker 2: You know, they wanted this kind of more chamtus kind

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Speaker 2: of torch singer.

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Speaker 1: Tammy Wynette kind of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it seems so bizarre given that we

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Speaker 2: know she went on to become like.

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Speaker 1: The sound of country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I guess I And this was

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Speaker 2: a lot of people said this, a lot of industry people.

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Speaker 2: And she he said this that people were just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they didn't think my voice was suited to this. And

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Speaker 2: she told uh Jad Abumod for the w NYC podcast

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Speaker 2: Dolly's America that things were so dire she would pick

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Speaker 2: up discarded scraps of food from room service trays in

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Speaker 2: hotels to make ends meet. She said, I would get

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Speaker 2: whatever little saveable items of food there were, and then

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Speaker 2: I would get a jar of mustard and a jar

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Speaker 2: of ketchup, you can work wonders, Comma make little soups.

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Speaker 2: There's a heartbreaking gamage for that should go up next

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Speaker 2: to the code of Many Colors songs is Dolly Parton's

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Speaker 2: Room Service ketchup and mustard suit scrap meal. That one's

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Speaker 2: a little harder to make into a full song. Dolly,

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Speaker 2: get back to me. We'll write that one together.

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Speaker 1: One guy, though, who.

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Speaker 2: Was thriving was Porter. I barely knew her. Wagoner born

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Speaker 2: in Missouri, uh Wagner.

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Speaker 1: Porter.

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Speaker 2: Wagoner was known as mister Grand Old Lobbry for the

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Speaker 2: amount of times that he performed there. He had an

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Speaker 2: early televised smash hit show with his eponymous show. He's

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Speaker 2: one of the guys who really went to town on

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Speaker 2: the nudy suit.

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Speaker 1: Look.

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Speaker 2: For those not in the know, the nudy suit is

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Speaker 2: not named for being naked. Is not a is not

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Speaker 2: a flesh toned suit. It is the brightly colored, garish,

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Speaker 2: heavily embroidered, yeah embroidered, and Ryanstone suit. They're called that

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Speaker 2: because the designer was named Nudy. Cohn and Porter had

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Speaker 2: a show from nineteen sixty to nineteen eighty one that,

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Speaker 2: at its peak was featured in over one hundred different

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Speaker 2: markets an average viewership of three million people.

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Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is in the fifties

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Speaker 1: and sixties.

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Speaker 2: So those are those are for a regional Nashville, for

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Speaker 2: a Nashville country show.

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Speaker 1: Those are crazy.

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Speaker 2: I want to say, I don't actually know this for sure,

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Speaker 2: but I want to say that, like when Johnny Cash

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Speaker 2: got his own show, and when like you know, that

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Speaker 2: was the model of they were trying to go with.

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Speaker 2: So as I mentioned, Dolly's first hit was called dumb Blonde,

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Speaker 2: and when she performed it on TV, not on his show,

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Speaker 2: Porter Wagoner called her and he called her up and

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Speaker 2: invited her over to his office, and she showed up

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Speaker 2: with her guitar because she thought she was being called

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Speaker 2: to songwrite. At the time, his partner, his on air partner,

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Speaker 2: was a woman named Norma Jean, and Dolly said, he

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Speaker 2: told me that Norma Jean was leaving the show. This

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Speaker 2: is to w MIC, She said. The story at the

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Speaker 2: time is that she was going to get married and

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Speaker 2: moved back to Oklahoma City, and so then and there

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Speaker 2: he offers her Norma Jean's job at a salary of

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Speaker 2: sixty thousand dollars a year, which is more money than

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Speaker 2: I made at my first salary job in New York

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Speaker 2: and more money than she had ever seen in her life.

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Speaker 1: Certainly.

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Speaker 2: It has also been floated that Wagoner and Norma Jean

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Speaker 2: were having an affair that went wrong, which is interesting

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Speaker 2: when you consider the same rumors later surrounded him and Dolly.

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Speaker 2: Her first appearance on his show was September fifth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty seven, and they basically first tried to just kind

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Speaker 2: of slot her into the role that Norman Jean had.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm paraphrasing an interview that I think was also

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Speaker 2: done on the WNMYC show, But at the time, national

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Speaker 2: music execs were like, women by Country Records, that is

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Speaker 2: our dominant audience, but women don't want to hear other

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Speaker 2: women sing, But we need to have a female surrogate

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Speaker 2: on our shows and stuff. So they would have Porta

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Speaker 2: Wagner come on and she would like banter with him,

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Speaker 2: and then they would like throw to her and have

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Speaker 2: her do like a gospel song or like a novelty hit,

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Speaker 2: like something light and frothy before they actually cut, you know,

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Speaker 2: got onto the meat of the show, which was him

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Speaker 2: or his other male guests.

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Speaker 1: What a weird business model. Just all right, women like

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Speaker 1: this music, women don't like to listen to. Women like

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Speaker 1: just the sweeping generalizations upon sweeping generalizations. It's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean Nashville in the sixties, I know, right, but

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Speaker 1: Dolly was not a hit immediately. Country music DJ and

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Speaker 1: TV host Ralph Emery told WNYC. Dolly told me, I

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Speaker 1: think her first road date with the Porter Wagoner Show,

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Speaker 1: she came on stage and she got booed. When she

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Speaker 1: came off stage, she was crying, and admirably on Wagoner's part,

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Speaker 1: he didn't replace her. He actually elevated her.

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Speaker 2: Like Olivia nut John, who is a backup singer for

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Speaker 2: a British TV shows and then was elevated to duet

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Speaker 2: partner and subsequently outshown him. Porter Wagoner essentially pushed Dolly

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Speaker 2: as his new duet partner and lightning struck. People compared

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Speaker 2: the two of them the chemistry that they had, not

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Speaker 2: just on air, because Dolly is a doll, is a champ.

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Speaker 2: Dolly has chemistry with Jimmy Fallon, which is difficult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She, I mean she is so lightning quick and so

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Speaker 2: funny and so charming. But their musical chemistry people you know,

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Speaker 2: people talk about fred Astaire Ginger, Roger Spencer, Tracy and

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Speaker 2: Catherine Hepburn. He was old enough to be her dad,

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Speaker 2: he was almost twice her age. But most of their

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Speaker 2: songs played up on the romantic kind of overtones in

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Speaker 2: chemistry and especially in an interesting musical way. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you think of like a lot of the Nashville

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Speaker 2: harmony singing, at the time, you are thinking of like

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Speaker 2: the Jordanaires, like that kind of close harmony gospel Southern gospel,

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Speaker 2: not church gospel, Southern gospel or barbershop quartet, real close

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Speaker 2: close style unison.

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Speaker 1: Singing. Everly Brothers is another big comparison, where.

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Speaker 2: The point is to blend the voices as neatly as possible,

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Speaker 2: as closely as possible. And that was not how Dolly

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Speaker 2: and Wagon and Porter's duets went. I mean, essentially, she

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Speaker 2: was a singing co lead. She was mixed Hie on

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Speaker 2: the records, and their songs were basically back and she

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Speaker 2: would be singing harmony, but they were like dialogues. They

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Speaker 2: were back and forth that were romantically themed, and they

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Speaker 2: were a hit. People wrote into the show and said

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Speaker 2: how much they loved Dolly. Then those people went and

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Speaker 2: bought the records that they put out of their duets,

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Speaker 2: and those people came to the road shows, and Porter

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Speaker 2: got Dolly signed to RCA and produced her second solo album.

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Speaker 1: And Yeah, they just won award after award. They won

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Speaker 1: the Vocal Group of the Year the second ever Country

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Speaker 1: Music Awards in nineteen sixty eight. But what happens is that,

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Speaker 1: well two things. Dolly Parton's songwriting really starts to pick

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Speaker 1: up around this time, and she also starts to emerge

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Speaker 1: from Porter's very lengthy shadow, and this caused some tension

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Speaker 1: in their dynamic. Dolly later told WNYC. I had to

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Speaker 1: be quiet around Porter because Porter was the star. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to say a lot, and I didn't think

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Speaker 1: it was my place to try to take within his show.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't really something I would just stand out and do.

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Speaker 1: He didn't do that as a woman, and you didn't

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Speaker 1: do that as a professional person. It was his show,

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Speaker 1: not mine, at least until I went out on my own, until,

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Speaker 1: like I say, until I claimed and owned myself. I

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Speaker 1: feel like reading Dolly's quotes without a Dolly accent is

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Speaker 1: really a disservice to Yeah and our listeners. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: didn't have one prepped. I love you. That's good. I try.

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Speaker 1: She Alsel told our friends at People magazine in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one. I think Porter at a real hard time

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Speaker 1: after other people started recording my songs and I was writing,

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Speaker 1: and I was getting to be pretty popular, and it

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Speaker 1: was his show. I wasn't trying to hog it, but

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Speaker 1: I just kind of carved out a little, you know,

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Speaker 1: a place for myself. There are you there? You got

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Speaker 1: a little bit, a little place for myself place.

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Speaker 2: She wrote an insane like something unlocked in her right

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Speaker 2: around this time. I mean, she wrote an insane amount

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Speaker 2: of songs. I think she's written I mean in the thousands,

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Speaker 2: but around this time it just went nuts, and people

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Speaker 2: talked about how not just prolific, but like like she

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Speaker 2: would write songs on laundry tickets, Like the porter wagoner's

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Speaker 2: daughter says that she found a song that Dolly wrote

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Speaker 2: on one of her dad's dry cleaning tickets for one

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Speaker 2: of his nudy suits. So she was just writing all

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Speaker 2: the time on tour buses and going and a lot

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Speaker 2: of them, you know, as we'll talk about in a second,

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Speaker 2: Like her contract with him ended up being that a

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Speaker 2: lot of them were quote unquote his property and anything.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, she that's the big part of this is

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Speaker 2: that she was already she had already been a songwriter,

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Speaker 2: but with the kind of increased profile and everything, she

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Speaker 2: really ramped that aspect of her artistry.

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Speaker 1: Up, and this caused tension between them. She later said

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Speaker 1: that she and Porter had quote a love hate relationship.

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Speaker 1: We fought like cats and dogs. We were just both

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Speaker 1: very passionate people. There was no way I wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to do what I was going to do, and no

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Speaker 1: way I was gonna not do what he thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna do. And so by nineteen seventy three, Dolly

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Speaker 1: partnerd debuted her immortal Joelene on Porter Show, and her

364
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Speaker 1: songs were hitting number one, well were some more, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the lower echelons of the top forty. And this

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Speaker 1: was around the time when she really just wanted to

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Speaker 1: strike out on her own. And she told people, when

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Speaker 1: I was trying to leave Portu show, I told him

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Speaker 1: I'd stay five years, and it had been five and

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Speaker 1: then it was six, and then it was seven, and

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Speaker 1: he was just having a real hard time because it

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Speaker 1: was going to mess up his show. We were very

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Speaker 1: bound and tied together in so many emotional ways, and

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Speaker 1: he just wouldn't hear it, and she elaborated on this

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Speaker 1: to WNYC. He would say, this is my damn show,

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Speaker 1: and I'd say, I know, but this is my damn life.

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Speaker 1: And we're not talking about the show. I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: my life. I'm talking about my future. I can't stay

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Speaker 1: here as the girl singer forever. I wanted an individual

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Speaker 1: career and I'm my own self. I didn't come to

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Speaker 1: Nashville just to be part of a duet and to

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Speaker 1: be a girl singer in somebody's group. I want my

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Speaker 1: own band, I want my own show, I want my

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Speaker 1: own dreams. He was like, I made you and I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you made me mad again. That's a great line. I love, dude.

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Speaker 2: She has so many like great she could been a

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Speaker 2: stand up comic, like in a different world, she was

388
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Speaker 2: not like as talented of a songwriter and singer. She

389
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Speaker 2: could have been like a quippy like Branson Missouri Las Vegas.

390
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Speaker 1: Like she could have yeah, well yeah, yeah, yes, she

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Speaker 1: could have had Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say she could have She could have

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Speaker 2: eased I mean she did sorry in many movies and

394
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Speaker 2: everything but she is so funny on those shows. And

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Speaker 2: I watched a bunch of clips of them of this period,

396
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,639
Speaker 2: and you can see like a sort of mean spirited,

397
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Speaker 2: like chafing.

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Speaker 1: He jokes about hitting her a lot.

399
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Speaker 2: It's like, why are I kind of dancing around saying?

400
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 2: And she just quickly comes back with stuff. She's like,

401
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: you know, if you hit me, you better hope I

402
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: never find out about it. Like just she's she just

403
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 2: is so quick and so funny. I mean, what do

404
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Speaker 2: we think about what do we think about the likelihood

405
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 2: of a a non platonic relationship? You? I don't know, man,

406
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Speaker 2: for someone who has been in the public eye for

407
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Speaker 2: so long, there's like an admirably large part of her life.

408
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: People don't know about that. Her husband is very possibly

409
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Speaker 2: like three dogs in a trench coat. He was like,

410
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: he's been seen in public like thrice.

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Speaker 1: And she married him. Guy's name is Carl Thomas Dean,

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Speaker 1: which there's a pub trivia answer for you. And they

413
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Speaker 1: were married in nineteen sixty six, so like before she

414
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Speaker 1: became a public figure, really she married to him.

415
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Speaker 2: Yeah, have you seen all the people who try and

416
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: track down her her tattoos?

417
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Speaker 1: I didn't know she had tattoos, What does she have

418
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Speaker 1: exactly because she's always seen in long sleeves.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, people have like analyzed photos where some of

420
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Speaker 2: them have been sheer or like certain levels of see through,

421
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 2: and she could they've like zoomed in on different parts

422
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 2: of her arms and to see if she actually there

423
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Speaker 2: was a rumor that she had like full sleeve tattoos

424
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Speaker 2: and I don't think she does. But yeah, I mean

425
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 2: that like the plastic surgery, she's obviously had surgery, allegedly,

426
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Speaker 2: allegedly obviously.

427
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Speaker 1: Well there's that famous line that she said, and I

428
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: don't feel bad saying it because she's said it where

429
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 1: you know, it takes a lot costs a lot of

430
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Speaker 1: money to look this cheap. It is cheap.

431
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Speaker 2: Yeah again just in you know, another of her classic

432
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Speaker 2: sound rights. But yeah, it's it is wild when you

433
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Speaker 2: think about I mean, it's like the Clint Eastwood thing

434
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Speaker 2: we were talking about the other day, where it's like

435
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: this dude has oscars and one of the most iconic

436
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: American actors of all time, and people don't know how

437
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 2: many children he has. It's just like a part of

438
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 2: his personal life that they're like, I don't know between

439
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: six and eight. Who's to say, I mean, good for them,

440
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 2: like the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just it's funny.

441
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: So I don't know, what, what do you think? What's

442
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: the over under on them?

443
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean it sounds like me as

444
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,719
Speaker 1: they would have said. Dolly's quote is better than IY

445
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: think I could come up with. She's obviously been asked

446
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: about the specifics of their relationship, and she said in

447
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: her memoir, I know that everybody that knows anything about

448
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: me and Porter would like to know the true story

449
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: what happened to us, and nobody would like to know

450
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: that more than me and Porter. So it sounds like

451
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: they have a complicated love that dared not speak its name.

452
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: But she's also described him at points, I mean to

453
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: piggyback off what you were saying earlier about all the

454
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: terrible jokes on the TV show. She's also described him

455
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: in several places as quote very much a male shoven

456
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: his pig. Imagine that in Dolly Parton's voice.

457
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, either way, things got bad enough that, in her

458
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: words to MC, she said, I just finally thought I'm

459
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: gonna break myself if I don't go, because all we

460
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: were doing was fighting and it just wasn't working. I

461
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: couldn't think, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat. He wasn't

462
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: happy either. I thought, this is just insane. We've got

463
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: to do something. That's when I went in and said,

464
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 2: I thought he's not gonna listen. We'd fought. I'd go

465
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: home crying, and that's when I wrote I Will Always

466
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: Love You and went back to sing it. So for

467
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: years it has been commonly repeated that Dolly wrote Jolene

468
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: and I Will Always Love You on the same day,

469
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: which she has inevitably chased with the quip I guess

470
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: it was a good day because she said that in

471
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: very many interviews, but in twenty twenty two, because she

472
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: tells the same story. I mean, you know I read

473
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: that too. Yeah, yeah, she tells the same story. She's

474
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: found the demo tape that has both songs on it,

475
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: and she filed paperwork for them around the same time.

476
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: But in twenty twenty two, during a talk with Adam

477
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: Grant on Clubhouse, of all places, she said, I don't

478
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: really know if they were written in the same night.

479
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: When we found an old tape, they were on the

480
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: same cassette, so that could have been a few days apart,

481
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: but they also wound up on the same album, and

482
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: they were certainly written within a very short span of time,

483
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: so there's that. But she put her entire relationship with

484
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: Wagoner into this one song.

485
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: I want to say something really quick. Sorry, yeah, its

486
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: places to say, I do think. I mean, this is

487
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: nowhere near as good as Joe Lane and I will

488
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: always love you. But I've had it confirm to me

489
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: by the man himself that Peter Frampton wrote baby, I

490
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 1: love your way and show me the way on the

491
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: same day.

492
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of a way. I was trying

493
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: to think of a way, something way to go.

494
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: That's good. Thanks.

495
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 2: It took me thirty seconds, but you know I'm blood

496
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: I interrupted you for that. I thought, do what you

497
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: do best, just write a song. So I wrote the song,

498
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 2: took it back in the next day. I said, Porter,

499
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: sit down, I got something I have to sing to you.

500
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm sort of slide into it. So I sang it

501
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: and he was sitting in his desk and he was crying, crying, crying.

502
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: One syllable that's in country music that Ken Burns doc.

503
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: She said.

504
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: He said, it's the best thing you ever wrote, Okay,

505
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 2: you can go, but only if I can produce that

506
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: record and keep me a little piece of that.

507
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. And he did, and the rest is history.

508
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 2: And then in her autobiography, she wrote, as I left

509
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: his office and began to drive toward my home out

510
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: in Brentwood, it began to rain.

511
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: So did I.

512
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: I cried, I know, not so much out of a

513
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 2: sense of loss, but from the pain that almost always

514
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 2: comes with change. Wow, it has a sad kind of freedom.

515
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: Then I began to sing a song to myself. It's

516
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: been a long dark night and I've been waiting for

517
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: the morning. It's been a long, hard fight, but I

518
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: can see a brand new day dawning. I've been looking

519
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: for the sunshine. I ain't seen it in so long.

520
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 2: Everything's gonna work out, just fine, Everything's going to be

521
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: all right. That's been all wrong. I can see the

522
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: light of a clear blue morning, And she says, I

523
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: swear to you all my life. As I said that,

524
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: the sky cleared up, it stopped raining, the sun came out,

525
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: and before I got home, I had completely written the

526
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: song Light of a Clear blue Morning, I Will Always

527
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: Love You came out in March of nineteen seventy four

528
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: as the second single from her thirteenth solo album, Down

529
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 2: in ten Years.

530
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: Is less than That Ye On Dolly sixty seven Yeah

531
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: seven years, thirteen.

532
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: Albums in two years, a year, good Lord, Yeah Man.

533
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 2: Nashal didn't play, and the single reach number four in

534
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 2: Canada and number one on the Billboard Hot Country Songs,

535
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 2: becomes one of the best selling singles of nineteen seventy four.

536
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: The version that she cut has some interesting guys playing

537
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 2: on it, Buck Trent, who some people have credited with

538
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: the invention of the electric banjo. One of my favorite

539
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 2: Nashville session legends a pianist named Hargus Pig Robbins, which

540
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: is one of the best country music names of all time,

541
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: and most interestingly to me, a drummer named Larry London.

542
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 2: Who is this super well regarded session drummer who people

543
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 2: have compared to Hal Blaine, but he has the distinct

544
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: of being one of, if not the only people I

545
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: can think of who's a session drummer for both Nashville

546
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: and Motown. Wow, he's banned the somethings where the Headliners

547
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: Headliners the first white band signed to Motown, so he

548
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: took over from Motown when Benny Benjamin died or on

549
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: some sessions anyway, and then wound up in Nashville.

550
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: So that's wild to me, and I can't say this

551
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: is a strafe face. Porter apparently took what you've seen

552
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: described in several places as six weeks sitting by a

553
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: lake mourning the loss of his partnership with Dolly, which

554
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean, who among us? Well, yeah, that's one of

555
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: the soundbites I keep saying.

556
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: I imagine its soundtrack to Christmas Time is here again.

557
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: So just Porter Wagoner sit out by his.

558
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Leg the rest of the development, Yeah, exactly.

559
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: But they did, in fact continue to work together to

560
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: a extent. Dolly released the album Say Forever You'll Be

561
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: Mine in nineteen seventy five, and he produced that, and

562
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: also in nineteen seventy seven, it was a big year

563
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: for Dolly. She released her album Here You Come Again,

564
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: which was a big country and mainstream success, and she

565
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: also appeared on The Toennight Show with Johnny Carson and

566
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: won the CMA Entertainer of the Year Award in nineteen

567
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: seventy eight. And all this solo success for Dolly, when

568
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 1: Porter's career was released kind of floundering. He ended up

569
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: suing her for three million dollars in nineteen seventy nine,

570
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: and Dolly told WNYC he sued me because of what

571
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: I had done to his TV show. I don't remember

572
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: exactly what all the legalities were. He was my manager,

573
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: so he was suing me for future royalties because I'd signed.

574
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't even know what I signed. I was young

575
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: and silly, and I guess part of Porter's claims were true.

576
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: He said that their contract had said that if she

577
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: left his TV show, he was entitled to a percentage

578
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: of her earnings and to continued on as her manager

579
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: for five years, during which time she couldn't enter into

580
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: any contract concerning her musical career without his written approval. Wow,

581
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: that is a strict contract for a TV show gig. Wow.

582
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is the era of uh as

583
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: John Mulaney. So indelibly put it. You'll give me a

584
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 2: whole Cadillac for the rights to all my songs, mister

585
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: Barry Gordy.

586
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean seriously, But I mean, like it

587
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: or not, He did have contracts, so he did have

588
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: a case, and in court he claimed that Dolly was

589
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: the reason he canceled his road show and this is insane.

590
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: He claimed that she broke into his offices of their

591
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: production company and stole one hundred and thirty demos of music,

592
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: whether or not, And I would that's a lost.

593
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: Dolly movie or TV special. I would like to see

594
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: Dolly the cap Burglar. Top five heists of all time?

595
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 2: Who stole their who broke into the Spice Girls? Spic

596
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: Spices Girls did that one when they got out of

597
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: the early management people stealing their demos from the record company.

598
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: There's not dere of all time. But whether or not

599
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: that's actually true or not?

600
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: And I I'm gonna let you, I'm happy for you,

601
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna let you finish. But Dolly Parton had

602
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 2: one of the best demo heists.

603
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: Of all time. I I mean I would like to

604
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: believe that, don't you. Yeah? I mean you know, I

605
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: believe she could do it. Ei.

606
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: Either the night guard was just so charmed that he

607
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: let her in, or she's like a lock pick and

608
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: just knows how to break into buildings exactly.

609
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: Both of those are equally plausible.

610
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: Dolly Parton in uh Entrapman The Lazy she has.

611
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: To jump really low because her hair is so big.

612
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: That's a great let's all say for that image for

613
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: a moment that actually occurred. Uh.

614
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: They were still songs that Dolly herself had written, but

615
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: he was claiming the profits to them, so I mean, spiritually,

616
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: if not legally, she was definitely entitled to those songs.

617
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: Dolly ended up settling for one million dollars, mostly to

618
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: avoid a lengthy cork battle, but she didn't have that

619
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: much money line around, so she spent years paying off

620
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: Porter and installments, and I guess additionally, as part of

621
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: the settlement, she signed over a lot of their old,

622
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: unreleased duet recordings, and this allowed Porter to make quite

623
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: a bit of money off their old work by releasing

624
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: another album, Porter and Dolly in nineteen eighty title Needs Work.

625
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: What a dick move, I know, I know, especially given

626
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: this next part. Yeah, he really is made of light.

627
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: Porter. By the dawn of the eighties, he really needed

628
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: the cash and flux because, you know, as Dolly's star

629
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: continued to rise. At this point, she'd appeared in the

630
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: movies Nine to Five, The Best of the Whorehouse in Texas,

631
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: and Rhinestone. Porter was dropped by his record label RCA,

632
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: and he had landed an extremely dire financial straits. He

633
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: owed the irs almost half a million dollars at one point.

634
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: What is it about country guys not paying their taxitle

635
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: George Jones, Yeah, I don't know. So to raise money,

636
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: he started selling off his assets, like his publishing company,

637
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: which Dolly actually stepped in and bought purely just to

638
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: help him pay off his debts. And then and then,

639
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: years later, after he dug himself out of his deep

640
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: financial hole, when Porter finally had enough money to buy

641
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: his publishing back again, Dolly just gave them to him

642
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 1: as a gift. The man who sued her for three million.

643
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: Dollars and made money off of her for songs that

644
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: he did not write. Wagner eventually went back to Parton

645
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: and begged her for forgiveness. He called the lawsuit the

646
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: worst thing I ever did, which I agree she in

647
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 2: fact forgave him because she is made of light, and

648
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 2: the pair had a really wonderful reconciliation at the end

649
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: of his life, selling fifty years of his performances at

650
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: the Grand Ole Opry in two thousand and seven, she

651
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: saying I will always love you to him. By way

652
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: of introduction, she said, if it hadn't been for Porter,

653
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have written this song. This is a song

654
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: that means a great deal to me, and we all

655
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: love you Porter. This is the part that really gets

656
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 2: me getting for clemped. Wagner was sick with cancer at

657
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 2: the time. He entered hospice care later that year, and

658
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: Dolly was one of the last people to see him

659
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: before he died in October. She told WNYC I asked

660
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: everybody to go out, and I just talked to him myself.

661
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 2: I knew he could hear me, but he was not

662
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: able to talk to me. I could tell and he

663
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: could touch my hand and squeeze it a little bit.

664
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: I just told him that I loved him and I

665
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 2: appreciated him. I said I was sorry for all the

666
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: things we had been through, and I was so happy

667
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: that we had become friends again and that I would

668
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: always remember and treasure him.

669
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: We had a special bond. I was happy that I

670
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: was there.

671
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 2: Ough, Tolly, as you meditate on that, We'll be right

672
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: back with more. Too much information after these messages. Despite

673
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: Whitney Houston becoming the artist who is now arguably more

674
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: associated with the song than Parton, at this point, other

675
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: people got to it first. In one case, almost notably

676
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 2: Elvis Presley, when Parton's version became a hit in nineteen

677
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 2: seventy four, had expressed interest in covering the song. Dolly

678
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: told CMT in two thousand and six Elvis loved I

679
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: Will Always Love You and he wanted to record it.

680
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: I got the word that he was going to record it,

681
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 2: and I was so excited. I told everybody I knew

682
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 2: Elvis is going to record my song. You're not going

683
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: to believe who's recording my song. And she added, I

684
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: thought it was a done deal because he don't just

685
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: say he's going to do something anyway. He sent word

686
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: that he loved it and he was doing it. They

687
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: get to town and they and asked if I want

688
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: to come to the session, and of course I was

689
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: going to go. Then Colonel Tom, Colonel Tom Parker, Presley's manager,

690
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: gets on the phone and said, you know, I really

691
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: love this song. And I said, you cannot imagine how

692
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: excited I am about this. This is the greatest thing

693
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: that's ever happened to me as a songwriter. And then

694
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 2: he said, now you know, we have a rule that

695
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: Elvis don't record anything that we don't take half the publishing.

696
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: And I was really quiet. I said, well, now it's

697
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: already been a hit. I've already wrote it, and I

698
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: already published it, and this is the stuff I'm leaving

699
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: for my family when I'm dead and gone. That money

700
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 2: goes in for stuff for my brothers and sisters and

701
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: nieces and nephews. So I can't give up half publishing.

702
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: And he said, well, then we can't record it. I

703
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: guess they thought, since they already had it prepared and

704
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: already had it ready, that I would do it.

705
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: Did you know this? I didn't know that.

706
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 2: This was apparently quite a common thing, but in Elvis's case,

707
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 2: it was tied up in the publishing company that they own,

708
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: because he either refused to record anything that wasn't owned

709
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: by that publishing company or made you sign away half

710
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: you're publishing for when he covered it.

711
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure that was a kernel thing. I'm

712
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: sure Elvis had no idea and didn't care. Dick Clark

713
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: thing apparently. Oh, I mean like Elvis personally, I'm sure

714
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: we had no no idea that was occurring.

715
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, Dick Clark supposedly would accept cuts of publishing

716
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 2: for American bandstand placement.

717
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: That is crazy. I mean, Paola is one thing, and

718
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: getting cash here in your show, but to actually own

719
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: a piece of the song feels like perpetuitate all the

720
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: all the Paola scandal stuff. In the late fifties with Gause.

721
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: They crucified, I was gonna say, because they crucified, Alan

722
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: freed for it, and Alan Freed Skip swarthy and sweaty,

723
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: and they went, that's our guy. And Dick Clark was over.

724
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: There was America's teenager gross rictus grin.

725
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: Alan Free, the man, if I recall correctly who coined

726
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: the term rock and.

727
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 2: Roll with his moon Dog shows Moondog Matinee, Moondog Matinee

728
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 2: in Cleveland. That's why the rock and Roll Hall of

729
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 2: Fames in Cleveland. Uh Parton told w magazine in twenty

730
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 2: twenty one that she told w W Magazine fooled me once.

731
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: I said, I'm sorry, but I can't give you the publishing.

732
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: I wanted to hear Elvis singing, and it broke my heart.

733
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: I think I'm doing Holly Hunter and Oh Brother w Arthou.

734
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: I cried all night, but I had to keep that

735
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: copyright in my pocket. You have to take care of

736
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: your business. Everybody's going to use you if they can.

737
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: These are my songs. They're like my children, and I

738
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: expect them to support me when I'm old again. Business sense.

739
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 2: This is interesting. She edited that Priscilla Presley at one

740
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: point because they were they became friends. She told her

741
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: that when Priscilla told Dolly that when she and Elvis divorced,

742
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: Elvis sang, I will always love you to her Wow.

743
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: And then, in a classic Dolly quip, she joked to

744
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: CMT that when Whitney's version of the song came out,

745
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: it made Dolly enough money. It made me enough money

746
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: to buy Gracelands. Ah. Someone who did successfully cover the

747
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: song too much consequence, as we will reveal in a moment,

748
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: was Linda Ronstat, her future trio partner, who put out

749
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: the first non Dolly version of the song on her

750
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five record, Prisoner in Disguise. That version was

751
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: not released as a single, but this album was quite successful.

752
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: It peaked on Billboard Album chart at number four and

753
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 2: number two on the Country album chart. Parton also released

754
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: the song as part of the soundtrack to Best Little

755
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: Whorehouse in Texas in nineteen eighty two, making it the

756
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: second decade in which that song would hit number one.

757
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: And this is really interesting. The medium site No Words,

758
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: No Song made a really fascinating point about Linda Ronstat's

759
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: role in setting the stage for this one of the

760
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: best selling songs in history and also one of the

761
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: best selling albums of all time, Hotel California by the Eagles.

762
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: The Eagles, of course started as in this backing band

763
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: and quote the website, Linda Ronstatt played a pivotal role

764
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: in making country music accessible to a pop and rock audience.

765
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,959
Speaker 1: Her role was the interface between country music, pop and rock,

766
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: let her former backing band becoming the monster selling group

767
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: we know today as the Eagles, and without Linda Ronstatt,

768
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: we'd never have had Hotel California, still one of the

769
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: best selling albums of all time. But she also played

770
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: a pivotal, if entirely unconscious role in making I Will

771
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: Love You into one of the best selling records in history.

772
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: After Kevin Costner heard Lynda Ronstadt sing her version of

773
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton's song and he was the one who was

774
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: producing The Bodyguard in addition to starring in it, and

775
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: he had the idea to have Whitney Houston his co

776
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: stars sing I Will Always Love You. So Linda Ronstatt

777
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: directly and indirectly responsible for one of the best selling

778
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: albums of all time and one of the best selling

779
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: singles of all time.

780
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: Just a brief segue, but Linda ronstat might be the

781
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: Forrest Gump of like twentieth century popular music. In addition

782
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 2: to all of that stuff you just mentioned, she she

783
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 2: was nominated for a Tony for her performance of Piratess

784
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 2: with Philip Glass, which links her to Gilbert and Sullivan

785
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: twentieth century minimalism. And she collaborated with Nelson Riddle, famous

786
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: for all of the Sinatra big band arrangements, which links

787
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: her to that era. And because she is of Mexican descent,

788
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 2: has done a boatload of stuff in that musical tradition.

789
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 2: She has a Latin Grammy for a Lifetime Achievement Award,

790
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: Like Linda ron said, is like Miss American musiceen nineteen.

791
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: Tenth century edition. Well. Also, don't forget her first hit

792
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: with the Stone Ponies was a different drum written by

793
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: Mike Nasmith of The Monkeys.

794
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what a woman, what incredible woman. Yeah,

795
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: she is so endlessly fascinating to me, man, I mean

796
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: the stuff with Jammte She she toured with Toots and

797
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: the Maadles. She mentioned she covered a Jimmy Cliff song

798
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 2: like she is so there, So now we get her

799
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: in Jamaica like Jesus Christ. She is literally Forest Gump

800
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 2: dated Jerry Brown. Yeah, well, nobody's perfect.

801
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: Ha.

802
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 2: I'm just going through her Wikipedia page, like finding out

803
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: what other countries I can connect her to. Did you

804
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: see the documentary The Sound of my Own Voice? I

805
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: think it's called no, because I will weep openly the saddest.

806
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 2: I have such a thing about people like separated from

807
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: their gift by medical stuff out of their control, like

808
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: Charles Mingus and and her it is just the fact

809
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: that she can't sing anymore. That's so ungodly sad wait,

810
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: I want to I rarely do this.

811
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: I remember I was supremely lucky to interview her. I

812
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: remember asking her. She said, incredible duet partners over the years, Emmy,

813
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: Lou Harris and Dolly among them. So there's yes, and

814
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: so that's that's New Orleans. Oh right, Yeah. And I

815
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: just asked her sort of casually, like what is it

816
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: like to sing? With somebody. What is that relationship like

817
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: between two singers when they're singing. It was very intimate,

818
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: I imagine because she I mean you hear her in

819
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: interviews and stuff. I mean, she has incredibly articulate and

820
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: insightful observations about what it means to be a singer.

821
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 1: I was curious of what she would say, and she said,

822
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: it's a very intimate relationship. First of all, I learned

823
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: so much singing from Emmy Lou, and I learned so

824
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: much emoting from Emmy Lou. When she sings, it's like

825
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: a prayer. It's like your last desperate prayer for a

826
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: reprieve from the guillotine. And she helped me just lay

827
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: it all out. And I learned a lot of my

828
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: musicianship from her too. Relationships with somebody that you've sung

829
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: with like that is as intimate as sex. But it's

830
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: not sex. It's different, but it's very, very very intimate.

831
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: I mean, you feel like you know somebody. I feel

832
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: that way about people that have written songs that I've recorded,

833
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: like Jimmy Webb. I feel so close to him. He

834
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: feels like a brother to me because I've sung those songs.

835
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: He's a great songwriter. I just thought that was really

836
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: cool to hear a singer of that caliber thinks about

837
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: blending her instrument with another person. I just was curious

838
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: what she'd say about it.

839
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: Her last song is That's out There is on the Chieftains,

840
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: a Chieftains record, so there she's in Ireland too.

841
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: Wow. Just incredible stuff. You should I mean, no, we

842
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: will devastate you, but you should watch that documentary. It's

843
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: really good. Nope, I don't do it. I'm not gonna

844
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: do it. Uh, where were we? Yes? Funnily enough.

845
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, Miss Patty LaBelle revealed on Watch What

846
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 2: Happens Live that when I Will Always Love You is

847
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 2: being pitched for the soundtrack of the Bodyguard before it

848
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: went to Whitney Houston. It was offered to her by Dolly.

849
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: She told Andy Cohen. I said to Dolly, oh, yes,

850
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: I want to do that song, honey.

851
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: But before I.

852
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: Could say real yes, it was in the movie and

853
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: Whitney killed it. I was so happy Whitney got that

854
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 2: song and it just went like it did. Dolly Parton

855
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: and I had planned, Patty, you're going to sing that

856
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: song and then she said next, that's how show Business

857
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: is According to production notes in the Academy of Motion

858
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: Picture Arts and Sciences Library files, writer producer Lawrence Kasden

859
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 2: conceived of the script for The Bodyguard in nineteen seventy five,

860
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: inspired by the nineteen sixty one A Kira Kurosawa film Yojimbo.

861
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: I had known that Nope, me neither, whose title literally

862
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: translates to Bodyguard. Originally, he wanted to make this movie

863
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,479
Speaker 2: with Steve McQueen and Diana Ross that rules. That would

864
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 2: have been a significantly better movie. I feel like it

865
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 2: was rejected literally dozens of times. The figure that I

866
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: have seen out there is sixty seven. Wow that bad before.

867
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: It was finally optioned by Warner Brothers in nineteen seventy eight,

868
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: but it sat on the shelf for years until Kevin

869
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 2: Coosner came across it and fell in love. He didn't

870
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: have the clout to get it made the first part

871
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 2: of the eighties, but after his Imperial Era nineteen eighty

872
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 2: seven is the Untouchables, nineteen eighty eights, Bull Durham, nineteen

873
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: eighty nine, s Field of Dreams, and nineteen ninety Dances

874
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 2: with Wolves, I don't think I realized all those movies

875
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 2: were back to back, Holy, no wonder. He was like

876
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: the biggest actor in the world by this period, and

877
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: then on his way down, I hate Kevin Costner, I

878
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 2: know you do, Yeah, charisma free. But after that four

879
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: picture run, he could have cast himself as Divine Pink

880
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: in a Pink Flamingos remake and it would have rang

881
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 2: the cherries.

882
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: At the box office.

883
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: So consequently, by nineteen ninety one, it is announced in

884
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: the trades that The Bodyguard was going into production, starring

885
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 2: Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston in her screen debut. Madonna

886
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 2: was rumored to have expressed interest in that role, but

887
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: People Magazine, in a report from the time, said, have

888
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: you seen the part when he's backstage in Truth or Dare?

889
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: In the documentary?

890
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: No, there's this famous part in Truth or Dare when

891
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: Kevin costs like backstage at at Madonna show and he's like,

892
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: you know, he's got his like tucked in T shirt

893
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 2: and his like dad jeans, and he like says something

894
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 2: kind of clowny or like just square. He's just square,

895
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: and she like does like she like mugs at the

896
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: camera when his back is turned, like gagging face or

897
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: like makes some kind of and they kept it in

898
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: the movie, and that Scotch supposedly it's obviously I want

899
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: to say, like, Scotch, your chances of being in the film.

900
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 2: What a dumb idiot, most powerful man in Hollywood, You're

901
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: gonna release a movie that shows that you, uh, clowning

902
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: on him behind his back.

903
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: But I mean that's probably that's what she wants. I mean,

904
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: to show that she doesn't cow tell to anyone, especially

905
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: any man. Sure, yeah, well, I mean, honestly, that's probably

906
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: one of my favorite things about Madonna. She clowned on

907
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: Kevin Costner. Yeah, well, you know that's why he made

908
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 1: Dances with Wolves and you know she made Shanghai Surprise. Yeah,

909
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: uh no, I just have we talked about how much

910
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: I love a Vita. No, but that skins moving on.

911
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 2: Initially, Costner told CBS of Houston. I saw her like

912
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: every red blooded male would see her. I thought she

913
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 2: was really pretty. See got something kind of clowny.

914
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: There you go. He's just a square.

915
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: He's a square dude. No one ever said he was like,

916
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: you know, Jim Jarmish. It's just like, yeah, he's like

917
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: the kind of guy who I think that's a really

918
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: pretty lady. She said that she initially planned to break

919
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: into acting via smaller roles at first, not co headlining

920
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 2: with the biggest male draw in Hollywood in a enormous blockbuster,

921
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: And she delayed accepting the part for a year and

922
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: he called her himself, and there's a really sweet interview

923
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: where she talks about it. She was like, Kevin, I

924
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 2: don't want to do this and fail, and he told

925
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 2: her I'll help you. I'm not going to let you fail,

926
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: which I think is really sweet. Context context alert Ndy

927
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: Houston's second album title.

928
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: Some kind of like sound effect.

929
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: For that should be the make it really obnoxious, make

930
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: it the the sirens sound from kill Bill that I

931
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 2: think is from.

932
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: Uh uh spaghetti Western burn Context Alert w c y M.

933
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: Context in the Sleeze Mornings with context in the seaz Uh,

934
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: I'm getting punchy, I'm sundowning. Houston's second album, Whitney, made

935
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 2: her the first woman in history to debut at number

936
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 2: one on the Billboard two hundred album's chart and the

937
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 2: first artist to enter the album's chart at number one

938
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: in both the US and the UK. And thanks to

939
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 2: I Want to Dance with Somebody, Didn't We almost have

940
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 2: it all so emotional? And where do broken Hearts Go?

941
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: She became the first woman to generate four number one

942
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: singles from one album. Then she embarked on the Moment

943
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: of Truth World tour, which beat out grossing tours from

944
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 2: both Madonna and Tina Turner. Consequently, by nineteen eighty seven,

945
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 2: she was number eight on the Highest Earning Entertainer's list

946
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: of Forbes. She was the highest earning African American woman overall,

947
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: highest earning musician, and the third highest entertainer after Bill

948
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 2: Cosby and Eddie Murphy. That's a dated list, but four

949
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 2: years later her star had deemed somewhat.

950
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird to think of this now, but she

951
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: was kind of at a comparative low EBB around the

952
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: time she did The Bodyguard, and some of this was

953
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: due to changing tastes. Mariah Carey, as we talked about

954
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: at the top of the episode, the sort of the

955
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: new diva on the scene, and she employed some of

956
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: the same people like Narda Michael Walden, who'd overseen Whitney's

957
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: debut in her early hits, and this led to some

958
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: frostiness between them and the press, including Whitney's immortal line

959
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: when asked what she thinks of Mariah Carry what do

960
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: I think of her? I don't think of her, just

961
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: pretty grat Yeah. Is that's the Don Draper meme? You know,

962
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: I pity you. I don't think of you at all.

963
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: Elevator door closes, Yeah, exactly. But also a major factor

964
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: with Whitney's career dip was pretty much garden variety racism

965
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: at that time. In the late eighties, Whitney had endured

966
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of criticism for appearing far too removed

967
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: from R and B. A Time profile from the mid

968
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: eighties called Whitney Houston quote the prom queen of soul,

969
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: and that wasn't meant as a nice thing. The critic

970
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: Mark Anthony Neil wrote that quote there was an effort

971
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: to make Whitney the unblack artist, and as a result,

972
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: some black radio stations refused to play her for a time,

973
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty nine she was booed at the

974
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: Soul Train Awards, where the hostile crowd called her Whitey

975
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: instead of Whitney. So this movie was kind of a

976
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: do or die moment that revitalized her career, or at

977
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: least gave her one last lone towards multi platinum megastaratum

978
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: before other problems took over, before The Darkness.

979
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 2: Yes, Cosner told Yahoo in twenty fourteen, it wasn't Whitney's

980
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: in moment. It might have been easier two years earlier

981
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: at her peak, but after that movie, she became, I

982
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 2: think one of the biggest stars.

983
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: In the world. Another clowny thing this.

984
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: Uh, I understand your hatred of him, but I honestly

985
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: just even some of this stuff just kind of makes

986
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: me like it more. He did not play ball when

987
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: people were trying to point out the racial dynamic, the

988
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: interracial thing to him, and not that he had to

989
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: after again his that four year stretch, but you know,

990
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: it was part of Kasden's original script, and Cosner was like,

991
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: it's a love story. There's no race stuff. He's like,

992
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: he said, he told Yahoo, everybody alerted me to the

993
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 2: fact that Whitney was black, which I knew, okay, and

994
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: then he he refused, And there's a DVD there's a

995
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: behind the scenes interview on the DVD release where he

996
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: said he refused to film a scene that the studio

997
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: wanted to put in that would quote explain the black

998
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: and white thing.

999
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: So yeah. Oh.

1000
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 2: There was also a controversy that because her face isn't

1001
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 2: seen on the movie poster, it's like it's like a

1002
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: revert from reverse or three quarter shot or some of

1003
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: the promotional materials, like she's not seen her full face

1004
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: and scene, and it was people were saying it was

1005
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: like they were like trying to hide the fact that

1006
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: it was. You know, there was they didn't want to

1007
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: have a white man and a black woman on the

1008
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: on this movie poster. That was a romance thing. And

1009
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 2: again Whitney was like, my name is on the poster,

1010
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: people know I'm black, so uh yeah. It's so funny

1011
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 2: to think about this. And it's such a weird movie

1012
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 2: in context because it has this enormous smash it song.

1013
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: The movie is widely thought of as a turd, but

1014
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 2: it's still this incredible weird moment in history. Is there

1015
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: a bigger soundtrack that's been tied to a worst movie?

1016
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I really want to stop for

1017
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: a moment and think on this. Yeah, Batman Forever, maybe

1018
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: with h that's good. That's very good.

1019
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: Number one is in fact The Bodyguard. Well yeah, that

1020
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 2: number two Saturday Night Fever, Number three is Purple Rain.

1021
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 2: Number four is Forrest Gump. Number five is thirty Dancing,

1022
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 2: seven is Lion King, eight is Footloose maybe footloose. Nine

1023
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 2: is top Gun, ten is o Brother, eleven is Grease,

1024
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 2: twelve is waiting to Exhale. It's okay, maybe waiting to

1025
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: extend a little Mermaid.

1026
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: I would nominate and I'm gonna get in trouble for this,

1027
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,439
Speaker 1: possibly help the Beatles movie. It's not a great movie.

1028
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: I mean I love it, It's not a great movie.

1029
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: And it's sold because of the Beatles at the time.

1030
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: Well it sold tremendous amount.

1031
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Space Jam, City of Angels, Space Jam, was I

1032
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: Believe I Can Fly? Was there anything else on there

1033
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: that was like Monica's Monica's for You, I Will.

1034
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: For Me?

1035
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: The Wu Tang Clan singing Hit Him High, which is

1036
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: the theme song to the mon Stars, and see All

1037
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: doing Fly Like an Eagle. I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah,

1038
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 2: I'll never forget City of Angels, which is the Google

1039
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 2: the Iris iris Uh, the jazz singer Your Beloved Ivida,

1040
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 2: and then Hamilton, the originally original Broadway cast recording. I

1041
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 2: think we can call it at Bodyguard. Actually, yeah, I

1042
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: can't think of anything else.

1043
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, and amazingly considering it is the gem

1044
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: of the soundtrack. I Will Always Love You was not

1045
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: even supposed to be on the soundtrack. She was originally

1046
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 1: supposed to sing Jimmy Ruffin's what Becomes of the Broken Hearted?

1047
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: What becomes of the booking hot? I love that song, man,

1048
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: I do?

1049
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 2: I do? I love David Ruffin, but Jimmy Ruffin, Jimmy Ruffin, Yeah,

1050
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: I was confusing him with.

1051
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 1: Gets your roference straight, ah ruff and tumble. This was

1052
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: the movie's music supervisor Marine Crow. Talking to New York

1053
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: Post in twenty twenty two, she said, but when you

1054
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: slow what becomes of the Broken Hearted down? It's like

1055
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: a dirge and had been covered for Fried Green Tomatoes

1056
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: by Paul Young in nineteen ninety one, just a year earlier.

1057
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 1: So I was climbing the charts when we were shooting

1058
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: The Bodyguard, so we couldn't use that song because it

1059
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: just seemed like we ripped off Fried Green Tomatoes. And

1060
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: Marine Crow suggests that I Will Always Love You to

1061
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: Kevin Costner playing him when the Ronstats cover and this

1062
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: would be the third time that I Will Always Love You,

1063
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: a superior in a movie. Dolly Parton's version plays in

1064
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: a bar in Martin Scorsese's Dollis Doesn't Live Here Anymore

1065
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four, which predates Dolly's re recorded version

1066
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: of I Will Always Love You for the Best Little

1067
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: Whorehouse Soundtrack in nineteen eighty two.

1068
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, And that's so funny that it was

1069
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: in a Scorsese movie before Yeah came in any of

1070
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 2: these other movies.

1071
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1072
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: And what's really interesting, what's really telling to me about

1073
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 2: that quote is that she it seems to suggest that

1074
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: whatever they were going to put in that scene, they

1075
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 2: were going to strip down and do it as a

1076
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 2: big ballad.

1077
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: So that was like always sort of the U.

1078
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: I guess intent of the of the cover in that

1079
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 2: scene was to be like, Okay, we're going to do

1080
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: this big showstopper stopper.

1081
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Costner liked what he heard and he passed

1082
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: it on to the soundtracks super producer. Usually I don't

1083
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: like that word, but it was really the only word

1084
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: for I'm David Foster.

1085
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 2: Sixteen Grammy time winning David Foster.

1086
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: Wow. And he told ABC in twenty twelve that quote

1087
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: I made a demo and it ran to Houston's trailer.

1088
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: Because I was so excited, I said, Whitney, I've got it,

1089
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: I've got it, I've got it, and I played it

1090
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: for and of course her face lit up because she

1091
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: knew and I knew that I'd gotten it. And Dolly

1092
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: picks up the story talking to CMT. She said, Kevin

1093
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: Coostler and a secretary of the ones that love the song,

1094
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: they had another song that was going to go in

1095
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: that place, and someone have recorded that song that they

1096
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: were going to use, and they were just in a

1097
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: panic at the last minute. So they asked me about

1098
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: the song. I sent it and I didn't hear anything more.

1099
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: But she had a really interesting condition for its use

1100
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: in the movie.

1101
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she told Oprah in twenty twenty, so David

1102
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: Foster was going to produce it, and so I called

1103
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: David up. I said, now, David, make sure that they

1104
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 2: do the last verse, because I did it as a

1105
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 2: recitation and a lot of people will say, I can't recite,

1106
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:45,479
Speaker 2: I can't do recitation. I assume she means spoken words

1107
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 2: by that term, so they leave it out. Linda Ronstad

1108
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 2: had recorded it and left that whole verse out. So

1109
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: I said to David Foster, make sure that if you

1110
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: record this song that you put that verse in. That's

1111
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: the verse that goes, I help life treat you kind,

1112
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: and I helpe you have all all you've ever dreamed of,

1113
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: and I wish you joy and happiness.

1114
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: But above all this, I wish you love. What a

1115
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: nice thing to say, especially to a dude who is

1116
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: going to see you five years later.

1117
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Foster told Entertainment Weekly in twenty twelve that it

1118
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 2: added another forty seconds into the song, which was troubling

1119
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 2: because they had already budgeted it into that like how

1120
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: it was going to work into the scene, so they

1121
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: had to re re When he re edited the whole scene.

1122
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 1: It was actually Kevin Costerer's idea to have Whitney Houston

1123
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: start the song a cappella, which is very unusual, something

1124
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: that David Foster initially hated. He said, I thought using

1125
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: no music at the beginning was a stupid idea. That's

1126
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: him talking to ABC and I hate being wrong, but

1127
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: when you're wrong, you got to be wrong big, because

1128
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: when you're wrong big, it means you get to be

1129
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: right big too. And the song certainly ended up being

1130
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: very right and Clive Davis, Whitney's mentor label chief executive

1131
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: producer Take Your Pick, told The Entertainment Weekly that quote

1132
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: Radio approached my promotion team and asked us to take

1133
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: off that a cappella beginning, and I absolutely refused. And

1134
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: Whitney's musical director and band leader Ricky Minor told he

1135
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: w we flew the rhythm section of the band and

1136
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: the sax player to the Fountain Blue Hotel in Miami

1137
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: where they were shooting. Also were the Beatles taped in

1138
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: Insullivan episode there in nineteen sixty four. Whitney came out

1139
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: sang the song I think we did it twice, and

1140
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: what everyone hears is the first take, and Kirk wall

1141
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: on the saxophone as saxophonist, never heard it pronounce that.

1142
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: That's how now.

1143
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 2: Roger Waters pronounced sex sex ofphonie aluminimum aluminium.

1144
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's why I gotta I'm gonna start using that.

1145
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of sounds better than saxophonists. Saxophone

1146
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: is seems like a made up word saxophonist right. Anyway,

1147
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: the guy who played sax on that song, he said,

1148
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: we got to Miami, and Whitney insisted on singing the

1149
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,919
Speaker 1: song live in the film, and she wanted her band

1150
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,479
Speaker 1: to be playing along with her. And David Foster also

1151
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: told ABC when they were recording I Will Always Love

1152
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: You quote, I was standing right beside Whitney's mother's sissy,

1153
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: and she turned to me and she said, I love this.

1154
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: I don't know who you are and why you're here

1155
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: or what you are to me, but you are witnessing

1156
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: greatness right here, Sissy, even in this moment of triumph

1157
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: for her daughter, giving kind of a withering dressing down

1158
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: of her producer. That's amazing. But David Foster said, she

1159
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: was right, Yeah, she was. You've actually found another version

1160
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: I Always Love You in this movie.

1161
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: I had know that another sneaky arrow in the quiver

1162
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 2: of Kevin Costner being secretly cool. Maybe he's apparently he

1163
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: they were in a country that you know, there's a

1164
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: scene where they're in the bar, and he wanted a

1165
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 2: version that was going to be a little bit more

1166
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 2: like rootsye and country ish, but that wasn't Dolly's. So

1167
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: he got his buddy John. He was he's I guess

1168
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 2: he's friends with John Doe from X from Legendary one

1169
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 2: of the la punk bands, you know them in Black

1170
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Flag John Doe frontman to record a cover of this.

1171
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: So that's weird. It's amazing. Yeah, the two genders. We're

1172
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back

1173
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: with more too much information in just a moment. And

1174
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: then Clive Davis.

1175
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: This is another funny behind the scenes tidbit Clive Davis

1176
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 2: told Jimmy Fallon in December twenty twenty two, which seems

1177
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 2: insane that Clive Davis is still alive.

1178
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: I interviewed him. I went to his apartment. I know

1179
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: it was his nineties. Seems to have been the second

1180
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: time you've interviewed him. Fourth Holy they offer him around

1181
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot, and rich people do live a long time.

1182
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: He's still very pre together coaching. Well, the crazy thing

1183
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: about him is like, well you ask him a question

1184
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 1: and he'll say whatever he wants to say, whether or

1185
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: not it relates or not. But he just he's got

1186
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: these like ever present sunglasses and he speaks in unbroken paragraphs,

1187
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: and it's almost like I have this theory that he

1188
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: has like some kind of almost like Google glass like

1189
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: teleprompter in his glasses, because he's just like it's unbelievable,

1190
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: just unbroken blocks of texts. It's like, yeah, his stories,

1191
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: I mean, they're obviously well honed stories, and they all

1192
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: fall into one of two genres, which was, you know, somebody,

1193
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: somebody did what I said and it was right and

1194
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: it was a huge success, and somebody didn't do what

1195
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 1: I said and it was a giant disaster. And now

1196
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: and now I shame them in every public event by

1197
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: incorporating that they're misstep into my speeches. And they wrote

1198
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: me the nicest letter and I really have to have

1199
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: it framed, telling them like, you know, apologizing, And yeah,

1200
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: my first time I was ever with Clive Davis was

1201
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: got I sound like Clive Davis Now, dude loves the

1202
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: name drop. It was him and Aretha Franklin and they

1203
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: were on stools about, oh, you've told me this book

1204
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: ten feet in front of me because there was a

1205
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: camera and I was just standing behind the camera and

1206
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: I was talking to them both, which was wild. Having

1207
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: Aretha like sing in front of me. It was incredible.

1208
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: And it's over and everybody's kind of leaving and Clive

1209
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: waves me over like, you know, does the thing with

1210
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: his finger like come come here, come here, and I

1211
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: come and I stepped closer to him. I'm like three

1212
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: feet away, and he has come closer, two feet away,

1213
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: come closer, like right next to him, and then he

1214
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: puts his hand on my sho shoulder and uses me

1215
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: as a human crutch to get down off of his

1216
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 1: stool and then just literally pats my head and what Jesus,

1217
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: But anyway, Clive Davis on Jimmy Fallon in the summer

1218
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two talking about it, I will always love you.

1219
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: Take it away.

1220
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he said the version that came out was

1221
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 2: actually the rough mix that David Foster sent him as

1222
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 2: a work in progress. Yeah, he said, right after Whitney

1223
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 2: saying it, he sent me a rough mix. He said, Look,

1224
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 2: don't get demo ice they call it, which I assume

1225
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 2: means liking the demo more than the finished version, or.

1226
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 1: Don't hate it because it's just a demo. I couldn't

1227
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: tell either. Or he's ninety.

1228
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, David Foster continued, I'm working on it. I'm going

1229
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: to be adding instruments. So days past, two weeks past,

1230
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Studio is calling me. We've got to come

1231
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 2: with a single. The movie's about to open I called David,

1232
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 2: I say give me your last shot, and to me,

1233
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: it came off a little slick with the added instrumentation.

1234
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 2: So when Warner's called and I had to make that

1235
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: decision with the acapella intro with the raw instrumentation, that

1236
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 2: became the single Believe Me. David was appalled, but as

1237
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 2: soon as it came on the radio, he got more

1238
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 2: calls than he ever received in his life.

1239
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:14,880
Speaker 1: So there you go.

1240
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 2: That's the second category of Clive Davis. Yes, I made

1241
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 2: a decision. This other person was wrong.

1242
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: I am great. Uh.

1243
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 2: Marin Crows told popdisciple dot com. I don't think anybody

1244
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 2: thought the song would be a hit. Long before the

1245
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 2: release of the film, Whitney's most recent album had underperformed.

1246
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: It only sold six million copies, which was a big

1247
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:41,439
Speaker 2: disappointment at the time music industry thirty year Snapshot. People

1248
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,040
Speaker 2: were like, she's over people, She's over. The song came

1249
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 2: out and instantly went to number one before The Bodyguard

1250
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 2: came out. I still have a picture from the ad.

1251
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 2: It's very rare in film and soundtracks to be a

1252
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: number one record before film sees the light of day.

1253
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 2: David Foster told I Entertainment Weekly. When you think about

1254
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 2: how many rules that song broke for Race, it was

1255
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 2: a ballad, it was an R and B singer doing

1256
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 2: a country song. It's got that a cappella part, it's long.

1257
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 2: It was a perfect storm. I don't want to overdramatize,

1258
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: but it is the love song of this century. The

1259
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 2: song is, as we mentioned earlier, definitely the most fondly

1260
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 2: remembered thing about the film, which has a thirty eight

1261
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 2: from both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, thirteen Raspberry awards. I

1262
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: believe wo but Houston's version of the song peaked at

1263
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 2: number one on the Billboard Hot one hundred for a

1264
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,920
Speaker 2: then record breaking fourteen weeks, eventually becoming her first Diamond

1265
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 2: single and the best selling single by a woman in

1266
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 2: the US with over twenty million copies sold. It became

1267
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,400
Speaker 2: the best selling single of all time by a female

1268
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: solo artist, and she won the Grammy for Record of

1269
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 2: the Year. In nineteen ninety four, Yeah For a Time

1270
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: I Will Always Love You was second only to We

1271
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 2: Are the World as the biggest selling single ever, and

1272
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 2: then it was bumped to number three in nineteen ninety

1273
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 2: seven with Elton John's Candle in the Winds Remix or

1274
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 2: Not Remix, Candle on the Wind nineteen ninety seven, Candle

1275
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 2: to Win ninety seven, There We Go.

1276
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 1: Terrible Song.

1277
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 2: This song set sales and chart records in pretty much

1278
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 2: every developed country that keeps records of such things. It's

1279
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: will be quicker to name the song the countries it

1280
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 2: didn't go to number one in and in the weeks

1281
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 2: following Houston's death in twenty twelve, the single returned to

1282
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 2: the Billboard Hot one hundred after almost twenty years, at

1283
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 2: number seven, becoming the first posthumous top ten single since

1284
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 2: two thousand and one and marking the third decade of

1285
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 2: its appearance.

1286
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,679
Speaker 1: Adorably, Dolly didn't hear anything for months after granting Kevin

1287
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: Costner the use of her song, and she said, I

1288
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: didn't know if they had done it or whatever, she

1289
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: told Oprah, before going on to explain the moment that

1290
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 1: she heard it for the first time while driving. She said,

1291
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: my heart just started to beat so fast, and then

1292
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: when she got into I Will Always Love You, I

1293
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 1: think she means the chorus. When that opened up, I

1294
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: realized that was my song. It was the most overwhelming

1295
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: thing I was shot so far full of adrenaline energy.

1296
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:03,560
Speaker 1: I had to pull off the road because I was

1297
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: afraid I would wreck, so I pulled over quick as

1298
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: I could to listen to that whole song. I could not.

1299
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 2: Believe how she did that. I mean, how beautiful it

1300
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: was that my little song had turned into that. So

1301
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 2: that was a major, major thing. Yeah, I mean, I

1302
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: guess that's kind of common, Like you grant permission and

1303
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 2: then they then they're like, well, yeah, that's not gonna happen.

1304
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think they would have told her apparently,

1305
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: And I couldn't find the primary source for this, and

1306
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 2: this bothered me as well. Tabloids at the time reported

1307
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 2: that there was a feud between partner and Houston over

1308
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 2: the song. Dolly told CNN in two thousand and three,

1309
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 2: there's a tabloid story saying that Whitney and I were

1310
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 2: in a big feud. She said it was her song

1311
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 2: and I said it was mine. That's not what I read.

1312
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 2: I read that at some point Dolly had promised to

1313
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 2: not perform this song live while Whitney's version was out

1314
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 2: and charting, and then she went back on it, and

1315
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 2: that's why there was a feud between them. But it

1316
01:09:57,280 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be true, because by a nineteen ninety

1317
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 2: three Houston was making very glowing remarks about Dolly In

1318
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone. She said, I talked to Dolly Parton by

1319
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 2: phone not too long ago, she said to me, and

1320
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 2: then she does a Dolly Parton imitation, which I love that.

1321
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,560
Speaker 2: Rolling Stone put that in a parenthetical Whitney, I just

1322
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,680
Speaker 2: want to tell you something. I'm just so honored that

1323
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 2: you did my song. I don't know what to tell you, girl.

1324
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: I said, well, Dolly, you wrote a beautiful song, and

1325
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, but it never did that well for me.

1326
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:26,600
Speaker 2: It did well for you because you put all that

1327
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 2: stuff into it, which is a very Dolly thing to say.

1328
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 2: Houston continued in that interview, I think Dolly Parton is

1329
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 2: one hell of a writer and a hell of a singer.

1330
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:38,600
Speaker 2: I was so concerned when I sang her song how

1331
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: she'd feel about it in terms of the arrangement, my licks,

1332
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 2: my flavor. When she said she was floored, that meant

1333
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 2: so much to me.

1334
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: It's a rare happy moment for a person. Yeah, person

1335
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: didn't have a very happy life in a lot of ways.

1336
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: In an interview with Q magazine, Dolly says she was

1337
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: quote blown away by Whitney's version. She said, but the

1338
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: way she took that simple song on mine and made

1339
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 1: it such a mighty thing, it almost became her song.

1340
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: Some writers say, ooh, I hate the way they've done

1341
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: that to my song, or that version wasn't what I

1342
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: had in mind. I just think it's wonderful. But people

1343
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: can take a song and do it so many different ways.

1344
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 2: Forbes reported that Parton earned ten million dollars from Houston's

1345
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 2: cover of this song, which tracks some does to say

1346
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 2: that almost sounds low to me, but I love this.

1347
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 2: Some of it went back to the black community in Nashville.

1348
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 2: She told Andy Cohen in twenty twenty one. I bought

1349
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 2: a property down in what was the black area of town.

1350
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 2: It was mostly just black families and people that lived

1351
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 2: down around there, just off a beaten path from Sixteenth Avenue,

1352
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, I'm gonna buy this place, a

1353
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 2: whole strip mall. I thought this is the perfect place

1354
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 2: for me to be. Considering it was Whitney, I thought,

1355
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: this is great. I'm just going to be down here

1356
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: with her people, who are my people as well. So

1357
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 2: I just love the fact that I spent that money

1358
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 2: on a complex. I think this is the house that

1359
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 2: Whitney built, and this was a six thousand square foot

1360
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 2: complex in Nashville that she in February of ninety seven,

1361
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 2: and Nashville historian named David Hewing told USA Today that

1362
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 2: this was groundbreaking because someone of Dolly's stature coming in

1363
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,799
Speaker 2: and investing money to property in that part of Nashville

1364
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 2: was like a really rare thing.

1365
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 1: He said.

1366
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 2: Dolly could have bought a property anywhere in Nashville, and

1367
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 2: at the time, it probably would have made more sense

1368
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 2: for who she was to buy a room where all

1369
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 2: the recording companies are and the artist management companies are.

1370
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 2: It is truly a statement that Dolly would buy over there,

1371
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:35,600
Speaker 2: well before it became populated with entertainment, restaurants and residential neighborhoods.

1372
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, is that weird? Should we take that out?

1373
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: It's hard to make that sound like Dolly didn't just

1374
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: come it in gentrify the place.

1375
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's definitely interesting. You know, it

1376
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 2: is sort of the eternal question of white people investing

1377
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 2: in black communities. Is it good that there is now

1378
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 2: money in this area and that a business is in

1379
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 2: this area, and that people who you know are going

1380
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 2: to Dolly's office for work, are spending money in the

1381
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 2: community for lunch and what have you, and parking this,

1382
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: that and the other. Or is it a rich white

1383
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 2: woman coming in and buying property in a black neighborhood.

1384
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: I mean, clearly she feels the first.

1385
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: Way about it. So you're mileage may vary.

1386
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: We'll put that one right under the seventy million books

1387
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 2: and the vaccine on Tolly's list of charitable charitable accomplishments.

1388
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 2: Something about this song less charitably appears to get people arrested.

1389
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety three, The New York Times reported on

1390
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 2: two separate incidents of the UK related to I Will

1391
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 2: Always Love You. A twenty year old fan of the

1392
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: song was jailed for a week in Britain after refusing

1393
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 2: to turn down her stereo, and then the same year,

1394
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 2: another woman in London threw her neighbor's stereo out of

1395
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,760
Speaker 2: the fourth floor window and then was attacked by said

1396
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 2: neighbor because the neighbor's son wouldn't stop playing the song.

1397
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 1: That woman pleaded guilty to assault and was ordered to

1398
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: move ordered to move.

1399
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:16,040
Speaker 2: Then, in twenty thirteen, Twenty years later, a cross country

1400
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 2: American Airlines flight from LAX to JFK was forced to

1401
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,840
Speaker 2: make an emergency landing in Kansas City after a woman

1402
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 2: on the flight wouldn't stop singing songs including I Will

1403
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 2: Always Love You at the top of her lungs and

1404
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 2: was cuffed by an air marshal, another fun criminal twist

1405
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 2: to the song. It was part of Saddam Hussein's two

1406
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 2: thousand and two election campaign bogus state sponsored quote referendum

1407
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:48,559
Speaker 2: on his leadership in Iraq, which was included a blitz

1408
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 2: of broadcasts on the nation's three state controlled TV stations

1409
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 2: utilizing a version of I Will Always Love You sung

1410
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: in Arabic by the Syrian star Mayta b Siles. NPR

1411
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 2: reported to and two. It's all over the television, all

1412
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 2: over the radio. The theme is everybody loves Saddam, and

1413
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 2: his campaign posters feature big hearts of the One of

1414
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 2: the English language newspapers here had a front page editorial

1415
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 2: today calling Saddam a leader for a heart shaped land.

1416
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:31,120
Speaker 1: What does that even mean? Wow? I guess understandably. Whitney

1417
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: Houston's record label file a complaint with the Iraqi Mission

1418
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: to the United Nations. This is two thousand and two,

1419
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: so they presumably replied, we're a little busy.

1420
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 2: Just two people who didn't really need this shit on

1421
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 2: their plate right now in two thousand and two.

1422
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:52,360
Speaker 1: Whitney Houston and I don't know what it tickles me

1423
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: so much.

1424
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 2: Parton's other borsch belt style quip about the song through

1425
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 2: the years is Whitney can have the credit, I'll take

1426
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 2: the cash. But sadly she never got to sing it

1427
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: with her. Dolly told Andy Cohen, I was never asked

1428
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 2: to perform that with Whitney. I wish that could have happened.

1429
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 2: I would have loved that, but I don't think I

1430
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: could have come up to sing with her, though she

1431
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 2: would have outsung me on that one for sure. And

1432
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 2: then they did play the song at Houston's funeral and

1433
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 2: it serves as the epitaph on her gravestone, and Parton

1434
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 2: told a Fox affiliate in twenty sixteen, the fact that

1435
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 2: they used it at her funeral just killed me. That's

1436
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 2: when I really lost it. I was shocked and hurt

1437
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 2: and disheartened when she passed, but it was one of

1438
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 2: those things where I hadn't really fell down and wept

1439
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 2: over it. But when they lifted her coffin and started

1440
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 2: playing that song, man, it just stabbed me in the heart.

1441
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 2: I just boohooed for every single reason her loss, the

1442
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: fact that it was our song, and I was also

1443
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 2: thinking that was probably what they'd be playing at my

1444
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 2: funeral too. It was such an overwhelming emotion, and Dolly

1445
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 2: released a statement when Whitney died in two thousand and

1446
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 2: two that said, mine is only one of the millions

1447
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,120
Speaker 2: of hearts broken over the death of Whitney Houston. I

1448
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:07,719
Speaker 2: will always be grateful and in all of the wonderful

1449
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 2: performance she did on my song, and I can truly

1450
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 2: say from the bottom of my heart, Whitney, I will

1451
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:14,000
Speaker 2: always love you.

1452
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 1: You will be missed.

1453
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jordan, you know, I know both you and I

1454
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 2: have worked in celebrity journalism and so sadly like the

1455
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 2: most recent parts of Whitney's memory have been both of us,

1456
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 2: for both of us going through the whole how the

1457
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 2: sausage is made like celebrity industrial complex of not just

1458
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 2: her death but Bobby Christina, And it's such a truly

1459
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 2: grim end to such a life. So you know, I'm

1460
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 2: happy that we've managed to skirt all of that not unintentionally,

1461
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:51,720
Speaker 2: didn't want to dwell on it. It's gross and it's sad,

1462
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 2: and it's sordid, and I'm happy. We just got to

1463
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 2: look at her through the lens of this song, and

1464
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 2: I'm happy. That's how Dolly remember, sir, And I'm happy

1465
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 2: that's how if we have any degree of justice in

1466
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 2: the world, she will be remembered. So, folks, thank you

1467
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 2: for your part in that. Thank you for listening. This

1468
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 2: has been too much information. I'm Alex Hagel.

1469
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: And I'm Jordan Runtalg and we will always love you.

1470
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio. The show's

1471
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk. The show's

1472
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show was researched, written,

1473
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,719
Speaker 1: and hosted by Jordan Runtgg and Alex Heigel, with original

1474
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If

1475
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave us

1476
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1477
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:43,799
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.