WEBVTT - Advisor, Attorney, and Author Anjali Kumar 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.160 Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:15.600 I'm your host Bobby Brown. This season of Beyond the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.880 Beauty has been talking to founders of beauty companies about 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.400 how they started, why they started, what they're struggling with. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.240 And I wanted to do this season based on these 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.720 amazing founders because I was about to launch my new 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.760 brand and not only do I give them advice, they 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.520 have given me a ton of advice and have been 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.280 mentors to me. So I love talking to people that 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.920 have done it differently than I know, and I also 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.280 love sharing what I know. And it's been a really 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:53.680 interesting season talking to all these different you know, founders 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.360 of beauty brands, you know, some women, some guys, some 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.840 natural companies, some not and even you know pioneers who 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.560 have been in the space before me. And I love 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:10.319 mostly being able to understand how people do things, how 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.200 they do it differently. And I just think it's really 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.120 important for people out there that want to start their 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.280 own businesses just to hear other stories so a you 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.040 could relate or maybe you can get inspired. I'm someone 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.080 that likes to not only talk about being an entrepreneur, 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.959 but I really love to talk when it means to 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.199 be a woman, what it means to be a mother, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.679 what it means to be a friend, you know how 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:44.040 that defines you. And I'm constantly working on myself and 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.120 I'm really looking forward to the next season, which is 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.279 why I want to talk to my next guest, a Julie, 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:58.440 who is a a friend who I actually met when 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:04.240 I was doing a speech and she was running the 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.560 event at Google. Was it a women's group? What was it? So? 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.680 I don't remember who, um who had formally extended the 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.440 invitation to you, but it was probably women at Google, 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.640 which I was on the steering committee of UM. So, yeah, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.280 that was that was. It was a while ago, so 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.960 I did it, but I got, you know, much more 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.320 than I thought, which was this long friendship where you 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.520 came up to me afterwards and you were such a 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.880 cool like you were the you know, the head of 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.320 legal at Google, like you were just not some kids 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:41.240 sitting in the audience, and then and then we became friends. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:45.520 And then when my son was looking for work after college, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.960 you mentored him. Yeah, it was incredible. I mean, I'm 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.880 so grateful that I went to that talk and uh 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.359 and got to meet you there, and I had always 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.520 been a long adviirer of your brand and what you 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.320 had built, and you know, certainly as a girl of 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.079 color at a certain time, UM, you were the O G. 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.920 I mean that was that was what introduced me to 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.560 make up, was your line and feeling like I could 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.680 feel beautiful at a time when everything else that I 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.720 was seeing in media, I was telling you that I 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.200 was not the standard of beauty and being able to 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.440 find things that worked for me was huge. And then 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.240 hearing your story, I was like, she is the coolest, 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.120 Like I just want to know her. And I was 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.680 really embarrassed that afterwards that I did that to you, 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.359 because I never just like bum rush somebody like that 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.160 that I just felt this immediate connection to you, to 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.119 your story, how you talked about your family. We're both 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.720 from Chicago, so I think there were just so many 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.520 synergies and I really felt compelled to do that, and 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.560 I don't think I've ever done that, Like I was 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.720 really kind of mortified later, but I'm glad it worked out. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.080 But but that is that is in your nature to 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.880 do that, because you are you know, you say you're 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.560 these things, but you're all also very fearless and incredibly 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.880 inspirational and interesting. So you know, I just wanted to 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.240 spend a second. I'm like, I can't even like remember 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:06.480 every little thing you've done, But what did you do 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.440 before Google? Okay, so my career is a bit of 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.120 a windy groad. So I started. I'm a lawyer by training, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.440 as you mentioned. Um, So I started my career post 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.160 law school living in London at a big New York 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.520 law firm called Sherman and Sterling. I spent a few 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.600 years there, and I went there and spent two years 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.800 in the London office, traveling over Europe, came back to 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.560 the New York office, and then about a year into 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.760 my time in New York, um that Not eleven happened. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:34.880 And when I came back to New York, I always 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.599 knew that I didn't want to stay at a big 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.640 firm forever. I sort of tripped into that job. But 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:42.880 Not eleven was a big wake up call. And I 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:45.120 always had a very strong bleeding heart, you know, I 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.520 was a very I had a strong impetus to do 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.120 good in the world, and so that was kind of 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:51.920 the kick in the pants I needed to go do it. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.080 So I left Sherman and Sterling and went to the 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:57.479 Robin Hood Foundation, so that Bright and me up, I 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.600 didn't know that. Yeah, So I and three years of 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:05.039 robin Foundation doing sort of consulting work essentially for the 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.000 grand recipients of Robin Hood. And it was an extraordinary time, UM, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.000 really important work. It was really part of the fabric 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.920 of the city and the rebuild of the city. So 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:15.760 it was really humbling to be a part of that 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.680 very on the ground. But I wasn't practicing law there 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.520 and then I kind of realized I missed the law, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.480 which I never thought would be wars that would come 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.720 out of my mouth. And so I ended up at 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.279 a recently started nonprofit called Acumen Fund, which is not 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.280 called Acumen. I went there as a general council and 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.159 so helped us set up our offices in India and 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.960 focus on and you know, just figuring out how to 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.839 do these grounds and equity investments in different companies and 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.800 nonprofits around the world. Um. And then after a few 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.520 years there, I was recruited to Google. So Acumen was 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.560 a big grand recipient Google when Google dot org first started, 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.039 and I honestly had no idea what I was doing 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:58.720 there when I walked in there. I was like, I 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.040 don't understand how the interne at works. I don't understand 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:04.280 how Google makes money. I was really clueless walking into 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.600 that job, but it worked out great and I ended 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:08.760 up loving it. I stayed there for many years, and 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.520 then you went to Warby Parker and then I went 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.880 to Eary Parker. Yeah. So funny enough, one of the 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.400 founders of Warby Parker knew me from my time and acumen, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.960 and so when I was at GC there he was 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.400 running one of the nonprofits right out of college that 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.039 we funded, and we ran into each other at a 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.560 conference um and he came up to me and was like, 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:30.520 you know, do you remember me. I'm doing this thing now. 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.560 It's like, good for you. I didn't wear glasses. I 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.840 really didn't understand the pain point. I didn't understand what 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.760 you're building. But then he reached out to me when 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.000 I was at Google for about six years and he 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.000 was like, hey, would you would you talk to me 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.159 about this position. We're thinking about hiring a general counsel 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.679 and we'd like that to be you. But the pattern 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.240 is that you don't know what you're doing when you 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:52.960 take these jobs, and you just go in and you 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.200 figure it out. Yeah, that's very much a pattern. And 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.680 it's funny because, especially as a lawyer, I think that's 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:01.839 not typical because usually you're as a lawyer, paid for 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:03.960 what you already know, and then you do that again 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.920 and again, and you sort of double down on the 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.240 expertise and just get to charge more and more for 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.400 that expertise. And what I found is a that's not 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.800 fun for me. So I'm happy to do it to 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:17.000 a point, but I get bored really easily doing that. Um, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.120 And I think there's way better lawyers than me. Frankly. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.080 I think there's like people who are so good at 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:22.960 what they do with the legal stuff, and they really 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:27.040 love the nuances and the weeds of the law. But 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.680 I like, you know, figuring it out, untangling the spaghetti, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.600 and then passing off to somebody else who can do 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.360 it again and again and then moving on to the 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.320 next thing, because how long will you or be I 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.480 was there three years, three years, and then you went 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.080 to well, then I left because I got a book deal. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.800 So I ended up writing a book which had nothing 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.560 to do with any of this stuff. And the name, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.640 the name of the book the book is called Stocking 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.000 God my unorthodox search for something to believe in. And 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.800 it is funny. It is, it is honestly, it's a 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.640 comedy as you are hysterical, you're you're one of those 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:08.000 like bright, bright brains, but super funny. No, I appreciate that, 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.640 thank you. That's the goal. Yeah, it was a really 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.800 fun project. I had come up with this idea with 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.760 my daughter, who just turned eleven, if you can believe it. Um, 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.240 I think she was like three when you and I 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.160 got home. Yeah, um, so she just turned eleven. But 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.640 when she was born, I realized that I didn't really 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.920 know what I believed about religion and spirituality and sort 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.280 of the big questions in life that you couldn't google 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.640 and answer to. But I realized that Zia is my name, 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.280 that she would one day soon be asking me all 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.599 kinds of things I didn't know, and so maybe I 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.640 would try to figure it out. So it started as 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:41.400 just a little project. I would go and meet like 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.280 a cookie healer, or I would go to like some 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.360 spiritual thing and do little things around the city. And 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:48.000 then it sort of took on a life of its 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.880 own and turned into this project. Um, and it's sort 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.160 of before everybody was meditating. You know, It's like that 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.520 stuff was super mainstream, um, at least in my circles, 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.720 and so I still felt like I was a little 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.120 out there doing this, but I was willing to try. 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.320 And I think what people responded to is like I 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.760 told the stories that like cock told parties and never funny, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.160 and my friends would laugh. And then people are just like, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.320 you have to write the stuff down, like there's something here. 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:25.520 And then it turned into a book and then you've 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.320 had one more job before we go into your new life, right, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.280 you had one more gig, which is at Chat. Yes. Correct. 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:34.240 So once as my book was coming out, I think 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.240 when I finished the book, I literally turned in the 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.640 final draft and an old colleague from Google who had 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.400 started Chatter transponed board. He reached out to me and 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.199 was like, you know, we're building this thing. It was 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.600 sort of the same things that we're building this thing, um, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.640 would you come talk to us and we think we 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.360 need a chief people officer. That's how the conversation started. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:55.720 And I was like, I don't know that stuff, but yeah, 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.160 I have nothing that knew. I'm happy to chat. And 0:09:58.280 --> 0:09:59.599 when he was telling me what they were doing, I 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.160 was like I was it's pretty interesting, and I know 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.160 nothing about the news world or media in that way. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:06.600 A part of my time working on YouTube stuff, and 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.640 I was like, you know, I'm curious. Sure, I'm happy 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.800 to do this. And I love culture. I think that 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.800 stuff is really important. How you treat employees, what how 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.720 to get the best from people, Diversity, inclusion, all those 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:20.280 issues were things that I was super interested in. UM 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.760 so I took the job. And then this also became 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.040 a pattern where they kind of through in the second job, like, oh, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.839 can you also be our general counsel? Was like yeah, sure, 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.880 so I was doing sort of that very womanly way 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:32.920 too for the price of one. And and do you 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.800 have people that you call and discuss this with? Is 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.960 it your husband? Is it you want to say, Well, 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.240 we've never had the financial discussion. You know, That's what 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.240 I'm saying. That's a really good point. The financial discussions 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.640 are hard for me. It's so interesting. I'm really trying 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.280 to work that muscle and get better at it. Um 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:52.440 I wasn't you know. I was definitely raised with that 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.280 generation where it's just not polite to talk about money. 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.760 You just you don't ask those questions. I don't know like, 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.720 it's all this stuff that I know is wrong, and 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.480 I would advise anybody else not to take that advice. 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.160 I think that's definitely a hard thing, and I know 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.760 it's hard for women. It's definitely hard, and I wish 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.360 it weren't true. And I'm really trying to get better 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.080 because the only way it gets better for all of 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:15.880 us is if we all are sharing the math and 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.720 really understanding, like, hey, but I've gotten better about certain things, 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.960 Like I will when friends are telling you, like for 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.120 speaking engagements and that kind of thing, and like they're 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.280 paying you what you need to be asking for four 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.040 times that, and I'm like, well, and then I will 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.760 tell them this is what I got paid when I 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.320 do a keno. When you are way way more popular 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.080 than you have way more expertise on issue acts like 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.800 you're the Michael Jordan, I'll blank, you should be paid accordingly. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.320 And um, I think that's helped all of us be 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:43.680 more transparent. So much of what you do, it's like 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.000 a snowball. You know, you do one thing and that 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.640 takes on and it just keeps growing. So your book 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.760 is also the gift that keeps on giving. Is it 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.640 true that your ted talk. You've got four million? How 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.240 many people I haven't looked? Well, I have to go. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.360 It's over for me, and I thing over four million 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:07.080 people have senior type Yeah, that's unbelievable. Isn't that crazy? Yeah? 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.120 It's crazy. So so what was it like doing a 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.160 Ted Talk? It was incredible. It was an out of 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.600 body experience. I mean, I was so humble to be 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.920 asked to do it. And then I got really in 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.880 my head about what should I talk about. I was like, well, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.520 I have to, you know, talk about saving the world, 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.839 and I have to talk about business and social good 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.960 through business and like all these things that I care about. 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:28.520 And I don't know why I didn't occur to me 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.800 right off the bat, just to talk about this journey 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.120 that I went on for this book that was coming out. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:34.880 And finally I was like, oh, you know what I 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.080 have to do is just tell a really great story. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.160 That's what I have to do because I'm not an 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.320 expert at blank. I didn't discover a cure for cancer, 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.559 like I don't have that guy, which is a lot 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.400 of what Ted talks are um. So I was like, 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.439 I'm just gonna tell something that I am uniquely qualified 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.079 to talk about, which is my journey on this particular topic. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.199 Um So that's what I did. So I just told 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.240 the story of my attempts to sort of find religion 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.040 and spirituality and the answers to the big questions in life. 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.640 Um and that I failed at it miserably. But then 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.400 the you know, kind of cut away at the end 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.400 was that, but here's what I found instead, which was 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:15.199 that everybody, regardless of their religious affiliation, of their socio 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.600 economic background, if anything, we're all looking for the same 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:23.000 three things which in my research, my my qualitative research 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.640 um or health, happiness, and love. And so I kind 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.360 of take people through that journey health, happiness, and love. 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:35.440 I mean, honestly though, that's like the essence of probably 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.560 why we connected, Like those are those are three things 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.200 that are very important to me, you know, and the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.040 reason you know, the next season of my podcast, I've 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.400 been thinking a lot about where I want to take 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.160 it and what I want to do, and for the 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:53.720 third season, I realized that my my passion right now 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.720 is helping people. I mean, it always has been. It's 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:02.280 it's empowering, encouraging, making people, allowing people to learn how 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.120 to feel comfortable in their skin, which that's confident and 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.560 just the whole empowerment thing, you know. Being Look, I 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.520 was a working mother, you know, I was a commuting mother, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.120 and I just really think that we need to build 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.000 our community. And I just thought who better to have 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.560 these conversations than you. You're the only person I thought 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.960 of than you know, and you also have this amazing 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.080 network of cool women that you know, have stories to 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:35.680 tell and have ways to inspire other people. So well, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.520 I'm excited and I feel like you and me and 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.040 a roll, a dux and a telephone, we could we 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.600 could solve any problems. I think the two of us, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.800 we will, you know, will turn it into something else. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.840 So let's do you know, I do believe that you're 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.560 stronger together than you are alone. I love a collaboration. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.760 I think, you know. It's um It's funny when you 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.000 when I go through all the things that I've done, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.480 and a lot of it's just because I've done things 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.360 for shorter amounts of time, Like I didn't run a 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.760 company like you did for twenty five years. That was 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:08.480 my own brand that I felt, you know, it's a 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.880 different thing. I've been mostly an operator working for somebody 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.640 else's vision UM. But my favorite times at any of 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.560 those places, or side projects or any of it is 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.040 always in a collaboration because I love the give and 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.840 take of that. I love the exchange of ideas. I 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.800 don't want to be the smartest person in the room. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.840 I wanted to be a very middle of the pack 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.800 and learned from everyone around me. And so UM, that's 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.000 so fun to get that advice from people and people 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.600 like you. But you are working on a couple of 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.200 things now. I have been advising companies, so I started 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.520 my own advisory company that I'm calling Slightly Reserved. There's 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.120 a back story there that I won't for you with, 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:51.360 but it's I just advise about twenty startups and mostly 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.120 it's the founders that I'm really advising UM and the 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:57.160 kind of industry agnostic it's all over the map, everything 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:02.120 from fintech companies to beauty and wellness companies like Natural Beauty, UM, 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.120 some supplement companies, and then you know kind of everything 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.520 in between. It's like a nice mix of companies, subtext 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.760 and non tech, mostly women and people of color founders, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:13.240 which I love. UM. When then I have a handful 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.040 of legal clients just because they are incredible people, and 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.280 so I can't help myself, and I want to help 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.880 some of those books. And then I have some media 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.240 projects that I'm kicking around, which has been a really 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.040 fun you know kind of second chapter or whatever chapter 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.080 I'm in at this point through chapter UM, that I'm 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.280 super excited about. And I think a lot of that 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:36.280 came from doing the Toxic Google, doing you know, the 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.280 Ted talks certainly in the book UM, and doing some 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.280 public speaking around the book, and just around my time 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.040 at warby Parker, I started getting out there more and 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.360 like you said, you know, kind of having a bit 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.320 more of a public profile as much as you can 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.520 have a public profile doing the nerdy things that I do. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.080 But um, yeah, so these things are now coming in. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.800 So we're developing my book into a limited series or 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.800 a comedy series, which is super super are exciting. It's 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.080 very early stages, but uh, you know from which cross 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.600 I think there's so much room for content, as we've 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:21.960 seen in the past year. So this podcast is all 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.159 about what people could learn from the people that inspire me. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.359 And you are here because you inspire me, Like, what 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.760 do you think that our listeners could learn from you? 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:38.119 And where you've been to where they are, well, I 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:44.200 hope they can learn that not knowing what you're doing 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.119 is actually a strength, not a weakness. Like going into things, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.080 um with a bit of a beginner's mindset and staying 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.359 open two things I think can really put you in 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.800 a position of strength. I think we have a culture 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.520 that really overvalues expertise and a way that um, you know, 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.679 it's great obviously you want to be an expert at stuff, 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:08.959 but a fresh perspective without carrying a lot of um 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:14.240 kind of preconsilt notions about what's possible and what's not possible, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.080 can make you do things really really differently. And so 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:18.760 I think you can do that sort of as a company, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.199 but even as a person and the way you approach 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.720 your work. I think it's really important. And what kind 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.560 of fearful things have you overcome in your career. I 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.960 think I'm getting better at advocating for myself. So it 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.320 sort of what we were talking about earlier, just you know, 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.760 setting up what I need to be successful, making sure 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.159 I asked about things that I'm concerned about before taking 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.399 a position or before working with somebody, are taking on 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.560 a client, and that's not something I was always so 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:48.480 good at Like, so I think even when I left Google, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.879 initially I my daughter was about three and I was 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:54.639 going to Warby Parker and the team, you know, the 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.159 senior team I thought was all single, no kids. That 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.600 didn't end up being the case, but I would never 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.080 have asked them about how they think about, you know, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.639 working parents and what sort of flexibility they offer an 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.399 a that kind of thing, had you not pushed me 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.919 to frankly so, because I remember we had a conversation 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.960 right before I was deciding, and You're like, is there 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.280 anything left unset is or anything that you're still concerned about? 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.200 And I raised this issue with you and I said, well, 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.760 you know, my daughter is only three. Um, I think 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.040 this is it. You first encouraged me to have more kids, 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.520 and I was like, did my mom call you? And 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.800 was like I gave that just um. But then I 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.920 was like, well, I'm concerned about this one piece because 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.880 I have incredible flexibility at Google. I've earned a lot 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.439 of goodwill and trust there and so I can do 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:41.800 you know, I can kind of do what I need 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:43.520 to do and be there for my child and then 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.000 also be really effective at work. And so I'm nervous 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.639 about going into this senior position at a small, you know, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.360 a fast growing startup, and what does that look like 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.320 if my daughter is only three And she's like, well, 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.159 you have to ask a question. You said to me, 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:57.480 you have to ask a question. I was like, I 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.280 can't do what I can't you know, wait after I've 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:00.840 been there a couple of year, then I'll ask you, like, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:02.760 you have to ask the question. I was like, okay, 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.320 I'm just gonna stuck it up and ask the question. 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.960 And so what happened? What always the old women? To 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.840 all one of the founders, and he was like, oh 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.760 my gosh, I'm so glad you asked. Of course, whatever 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.280