WEBVTT - Execution w/ BD Wong 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.000 Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.800 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:08.840 vicious felonies these episodes are based on. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:22.640 These are our stories, done done. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:33.080 Hello, Hi, welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.599 I'm Kara Klank, I'm Liza Traeger, and every. 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.000 Week we talk about an episode of SVU, we talk 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.640 about the crime it's based on, and then we have 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.120 a special guest from the episode. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.200 And today is no exception. It's going to be hot. 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.760 So just to be transparent, we are recording this episode 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.599 a little bit ahead of time because by the time 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:55.800 you hear this episode, I will have given birth to 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.360 a human being and I have to make sure that 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.520 it can, you know, eat and sleep. And I'm just 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.640 a little busy, So we're just recording this one intro 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:06.800 a little bit ahead of time. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.880 How do you feel days before you'll have another baby? 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:11.560 What are you doing? 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.199 I mean, I'm just kind of trying to get little 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.000 projects done around the house. Like I'm just trying to 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.560 get things like we're basically said, I mean, we have 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.520 all the stuff we need because we just had another 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.240 kid two years ago, So you know, it's just kind 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:26.880 of like a sit and wait situation. 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.680 But I am ready to be done. And I'd love 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.479 to be able to just turn over in my sleep 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.920 without help or pain. You know, it would be fun. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:40.720 Yeah, that's a that's a minimal wish, you know, just 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:42.720 to not have an alien I don't have. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.840 Yeah, I don't have big dreams. Are you nervous? Yeah, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:47.640 I mean I'm sort of. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.840 Nervous to see how it's different from before, because it's 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.600 like going to be a little bit of a different process. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.280 They're not doing exactly the same thing. 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.120 So yeah, I mean, and like last time, I did 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.960 have some complications, like my epidor did wear off and 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:02.920 I felt a lot more than I was supposed to feel. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.040 So I'm hoping that now, going in with that knowledge 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.680 of how my body reacts to an epidural, that I 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.680 can that I can avoid that happening. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.480 They are so stingy with drugs. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.799 My friend, unfortunately, was just in the hospital with some 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.600 health problems, and they are stingy. They're so scared of 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.120 opioid addiction, and it's like, just give her more drugs. 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.280 She's in pain. It's like you have to convince. It's like, 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.799 my I just gave birth. Give me the drugs. What 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.600 the fuck? I don't know how addictive an epidural is, but. 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.760 You know, can you imagine, like you isn't it a 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:42.720 giant needles shot? You can't spine? Basically, how did Jared? 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.200 Is he ready to tell you. 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:46.520 What to do? I think he's ready. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.400 I think he was a little bit traumatized by the 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.800 first birth, so I think now he's ready for the 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:53.560 second one because he knows what he's getting into this time. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.400 But we'll see. But he was traumatized he was the 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.760 first time. I'm more I'm excited to. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:05.080 Kind of see how Rosie reacts to the new the 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.480 new roommate. She's gonna beat the shit out of this baby. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:08.880 Yeah. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:09.240 You know. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.000 We have a good friend who has two daughters and 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.959 they're Rosie's like best friends. And the youngest one, Fiona, 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.160 is so sweet and Rosie's obsessed with her and talks 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:18.800 about her all the time. But she thinks that a 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.960 cool way to express her love for Fiona is to 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.320 push her, and she pushes her all the time, and 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.520 she like smiles while she does it, like a full 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.400 serial killer, like she's just like I love Feo. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.239 And like just pushes her over. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.400 Like so, I don't know what's going to happen with 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.320 this new baby, but we gotta be on we gotta 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:34.880 be on alert. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.840 But you're giving like Rosie a present like it's from 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.520 the baby. Yes, yes, I gotta go buy that tomorrow. Actually, 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:41.800 what are you going to get her? 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:43.240 I don't know. I'm going to go to like a 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:43.680 toy store. 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.280 I'm going to go to this toy store that they 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:47.920 that those kids all love and see what I see, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:48.800 what pops out. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.560 See what speaks to you? What a little baby inside? 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:58.600 And you get her sister. What are the things that 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.640 you were most shocked by the first time you gave 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.480 birth that you'll be chill about now, Oh my. 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.680 Gosh, I don't know. I wasn't that like shocked by anything. 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.400 I just had some There were just like a couple 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.080 of little complications, like nothing serious, and I'm just like 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:13.880 hoping none of that like will happen again. 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.760 But were you still bossy or did you listen to 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:17.280 the doctor. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.240 No, no, I listened to the doctor. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.440 But I boss Jared. I bost Jared around them. Well 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.839 you gotta yeah, he's there to serve. 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:25.880 Like somebody like I. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.200 Apparently, Jared said, I was making so many jokes and 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.200 like and that, like not during the push, like afterwards 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.960 when they were like fixing me up, and Jared said 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:37.480 that at one point one of the doctors was like, oh, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.920 it's hot in here, and I go, Jared'll fan you, 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.080 like I was just offering Jared's like because he was 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.800 fanning me. I was like offering him like my assistant 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.040 to fan people, which is, you know, emasculating, and I 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:49.920 probably shouldn't have done. 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:51.839 But it's my day. I'm allowed to do whatever I want. 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:52.600 Yeah. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.240 No, once you give birth, I think you can do 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.839 whatever you want. I think it's shocking. It's honestly shocking 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.200 as a whole society that dudes haven't been like, oh damn, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:02.799 that sucks. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.040 Let's be nicer to these ladies and give them daycare 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:05.800 at work. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.080 Like I just I really, but I think it's because 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.200 they're jealous, because they know that they're worthless in the 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.279 grand scheme of life. But it is so crazy when 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.960 people are I know someone whose uncle has not changed 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:18.920 any of his two children's diapers not well. 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.200 Yeah, Jared was just talking last night to our friends' 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.840 parents being like my parents. He was like my dad 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.200 never did anything to help with the kids, Like he 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.000 barely changed a diaper. He was like, I work, you 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:30.440 stay at home. I mean, you know, they were it 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.560 was a different dynamic for them. But like, still, I 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:34.120 just don't. 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.920 Get how that is even a thing that cris Like 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.920 that is proof enough that the patriarch is inherently evil. 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.920 That you see people pushing babies out of their body 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.240 and then feeding them and you're like, why don't we 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.039 hit these women, Like I just don't understand, Like let's 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.120 not pay them and let's treat them like shit, and 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.120 then you guys need to like sweep Also, it's just 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.599 it's just wild. Yeah, but yeah, instead of being like 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.560 what can I do for you? Totally, So that's just 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:06.159 my thoughts on what I think about a thing I'll 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:06.520 never do. 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.240 Just to really quickly change the subject, I'm not I 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.599 think you saw this in our inbox, but we've got 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.160 a very very interesting. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:15.960 Detailed, amazing message. You know. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.200 We actually both responded at the same time, which is 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.840 one of my favorite things is when we're both on 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.880 the Instagram and responding at the same time. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:25.360 Yeah. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.360 Yeah, A former Felon wrote to us probably like four 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.320 or five paragraphs with information on where white Jews would 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.680 land in, which gang we would land in in prison. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.240 Yes, if you'll remember a couple episodes back. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:41.920 We were talking about how we were nervous that we 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.080 wouldn't be able to we wouldn't be able to fall 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:45.359 in with the Aryan nation. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.680 So like, who what you know? 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:52.000 Where did Jewish women or Jewish people go in prison gangs? 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.279 And he gave us a very very interesting. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:57.240 Take on it. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.200 Let me see, he said, generally the groups would accept 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.440 Jewish people so long as they pass as white. The 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.640 more ethnic you look, the more you'd have to join 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.280 the others, which is essentially anyone non white black Latino. 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:14.120 And my adventures through the system, this person usually rolls 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.200 with blacks as brothers and others, as we're usually outnumbered 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.640 by the whites Latinos, at least here in southern California. 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:22.600 I love this guy. He's like giving us the full 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:23.360 fucking breakdown. 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:24.080 It's so great. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.119 And he said he did know two self hating Jews 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.320 who went full fledged neo Nazi and got the eight 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.280 eight tattoos, like what we were talking about in that 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.640 episode that was from fault that the two older brothers 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.120 were in jail and the one guy had the eight 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:39.040 eight on his hand because he was like, I got 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:40.400 to fit in somewhere right. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:41.960 Now. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.680 I have to mention that the Whites or Woods as 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.800 they go by, aren't inherently racist. So the whole Arian 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.520 brotherhood thing is kind of overblown, as most of the 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.720 Woods only join because it's prison and it's racially divided, 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.600 and like, you basically have to do what you have 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.400 to do. And he said, so you guys can easily 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.240 roll with the Woods if you wanted to, but with 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.440 Liza's Rusky roots, it could pose issues as some of 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.720 the Woods, especially older ones, do feel some way about 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:12.440 the former Soviet Union. But Liza, I feel like you 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.680 could keep that under wraps whatever. No, because my legal 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.400 I would say Yelsavieta. They would know what's up. It's 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.960 not like I would be able to hide my Russian name. 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:24.080 I would rather be with the brothers and others because 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:25.000 that sounds more fun. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:30.760 Yeah, definitely, definitely. Anyway, thank you to Johnny R. For 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.280 writing into us. We really appreciate you taking the time 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.680 to educate us on the whole system and how we 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.760 would be you know who we would fit in with 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 on the inside. Now, before I forget, we have two 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.280 quick plugs before we get started. We are doing a 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.800 live zoom show. It's finally happening. We're going to do 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.880 it in June. We're still locking down dates and details, 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:54.600 but it's going to be amazing. So just keep your 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.079 eyes peeled on our socials where we will be blasting 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.880 out the ticket link any moment now. And also a 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.280 little extra special treat for you this week, Lisa and 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.080 I are both on Megan Gaily and naomiic Peagan's lifetime 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.240 movie podcast called I Love a Lifetime Movie. Our episode 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.360 is out now. We watch a movie that's based on 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.200 a true crime. It's very it's that's messed up vibes, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.640 but on a different podcast, so check it out wherever 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.360 you get your pods. Now, we got to get going 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.000 into today's episode because we have such a phenomenal guest 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.200 that we like the interview as long, and this whole 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.360 episode is chock full of goodness, so we need to 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:30.160 just jump right in. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:31.320 So let's get going. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.720 All right, And now we're going to hop on into Execution, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.320 which is season three, episode fifteen. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.760 This episode is different from. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.960 Yeah, I would say I will be transparent upfront with 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:49.719 our listeners. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.280 I don't like these types of episodes one of my 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.839 least favorites. I hate it so much. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.920 Anytime they're just like doing long interviews to dig up 0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:59.520 something later or evidence. 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:00.000 I hate it. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.000 She's thinking, like like the Brian Denahey episode. Like the 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.640 episodes where it's just like someone's about to die or 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.920 get executed and we have this amount of time to 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.640 find out the information, like when there's like a countdown. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.040 Not for Lisa. I like it when they mix it 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:13.679 up a little bit. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.199 Like someone was asking us recently, like, what do you 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:17.880 think about that episode that they just did on the 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.960 current season where there were three different cases running simultaneously. 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:22.120 I kind of think that's cool. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.000 I don't want to see that every week, But I 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:25.840 like it a little bit, you know, like to mix 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:26.199 it up. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:27.400 I hate it. 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.959 I will even in a hotel on USA, I might 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.679 skip JK new I would watch it. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:35.800 All right, Well, let me take you through this episode 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.800 and hopefully my delightful retelling will change your mind. So 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.080 we open on a convict in a cell being questioned 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.920 by doctor George Wang. This is a loong, heavy episode 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.719 and we love it. A Chiron tells us that it's 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.880 two hours to execution, so like we said, a sort 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:52.319 of countdown episode. 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:54.280 I didn't know the word chiron, you know. 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:55.679 I said that in front of our friend Laura the 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.200 other day and she was like, oh, what is that 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.439 an industry term? Yeah, it's just basically when there's words 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:02.000 on the screen. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:03.400 Cool. Yeah. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.680 This guy who's in jail is a serial killer named 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.400 Matthew Brotus, who is being played by an actor named 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.880 Nick Chinlund. Who it is, I guess commonly known screen 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:15.520 tested for the role of Elliott's tabler. 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.400 Well, and he's also in one of my top favorite 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:19.839 movies of all time, con Air. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.560 It's literally in my notes. Oh wow. 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.959 Literally the next thing I was gonna say is he's 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.720 also in con Air, which I've never seen. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:27.319 But Lisa Love, I can't believe you haven't. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.880 Sign We'll do it on the projector dude, it is. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:35.240 It is so perfect, star studded, violent and funny. 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:36.720 It's awesome. It's funny. 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.960 Okay, Dave Chappelle's in it. What John Malkovich, we got. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.959 A look like it. I didn't know any of this. Yeah, 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.760 it's so good. Okay, okay, okay, I'm in. I'm in. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.120 So this guy is like super creepy. 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.960 He's like staring straight ahead like peace eye contact with 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:56.480 okay again. Lisa A Stan of Richard Ramirez also here 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.080 to tell you that this creepy fucking guy is hot. 0:11:59.400 --> 0:11:59.640 He is. 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.600 I mean, I'm sure the actor. The actor is like 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.640 a handsome man, but he's very creepy here, like just 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.439 looking straight ahead and like talking. It's very silence of 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.680 the Lambs, like this is this whole interview is very 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:15.480 Clarice Starling interviewing Hannibal Lecter in my opinion, like Huang 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.480 asks about his first time, and the guy just like 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.120 he's like, what about your first time? And Huang's like, like, 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.120 I remember it fondly. And then he asked He's like, 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.520 I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to Stabler, and 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.160 Stabler's like fondly, and then they have this whole conversation 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.840 where he's like, no, like tell me more, and he's like, 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.000 I thought it was painful for the girl. I thought 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.680 I did something wrong. And the guy's like he's he's 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.080 basically like intuiting things about Stabler without knowing anything. The 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.920 same way Hannibal Lecter does. Like that's how smart Hannibal 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.840 Lecter was that he could like just by the way 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.480 that you wear your hair, he can tell that you 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.200 went to this kind of high school and you were 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.560 this kind of girl or whatever. Like he's just like, 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.319 so that's what he's doing. And he literally says something 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.520 about Stabler's sweaty fumblings. And there's a full monologue that 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.199 Hannibal Doctor does where he goes those sticky fumblings in 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.080 the back seats of cars make you want to go back, 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.160 get anywhere, get all the way to the FBI. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.199 Do you know Silence of the Lambs really kind of creepy? 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:10.960 How much I know Silence of the Lambs? It is 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:12.040 actually a weird thing about me. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.360 Yeah, you know so much about it. But also these 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.600 people would be great fortune tellers if they didn't want 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:18.280 to be murderers. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:18.560 I know. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.040 Well, I mean it's exactly, it's like a lot of 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.160 I think reading, like an eye twitch, reading like facial 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.520 expressions and stuff like that that helps you. 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:26.719 Get in there. 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.560 I don't really buy this guy as as he's not 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:35.040 like as erudite and like seemingly like intelligent as a 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:35.720 Hannibal Elector. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:37.280 But you know this is what he's doing. 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.559 He's he's acts like he's the smartest guy in the room, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.160 which I think a lot of serial killers do do. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.640 And he's like, you just said do do do do? Yeah. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.640 He tells Sabler like, you're exactly like me, and then 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.839 he tells Huang like you're not liked. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.679 And then Huang goes in on this sky. He's like, 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.920 your first time was terrible. You couldn't get it up. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.000 You were like inept like, and he's really going after 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.160 the guy and this guy like this is really creepy. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.760 This guy is referring to his victims as thing like 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.679 I had this one thing once and it was so sweet. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.920 Like he's calling them it and thing like it's disgusting, 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.560 and he describes raping and killing one of his victims 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.520 and Huang can kind of sense this guy's about to explode, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.200 and he's like, Elliott, get up from the table. And 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.280 then this guy just like Smasheshang's head against the wall. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.400 Twang like slides. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.480 Down unconscious, and we end on him and Stabler like 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:36.000 in a full like Greco Roman wrestling hold, and that's 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:37.240 how we leave the cold open. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:38.800 I don't know how you can't like this episode. 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.360 I mean, this is pretty fucking I do like this 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.120 is very real Housewives. I do like when they show 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.600 us the wild that's about to happen, and then they 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.480 go back three weeks prior, right, So now I like 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.080 seeing Huang doing some physical movements, like I like some 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:54.960 what is it stunts? 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:56.160 I like seeing him in a stunt. 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.040 Yeah, yeah, like Huang in on the action is not 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.640 something we see a lot of. So now at the 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.320 top of act one, we're three days before the execution, 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.880 and so we've gone back in time and at the precinct, 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.000 Elliott is approached by Alan and Hannah Cooper. These are 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.360 parents of a girl named Debbie who was murdered eleven 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.320 years ago. Her killer was never caught, and Elliot's like, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.160 of course, I remember the case. This girl was abducted 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.560 on her way home from school and his partner, Dave Rossetti, 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:21.920 worked the case. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.520 And the Coopers are like, yeah, we heard he died. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:25.080 We're sorry. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.880 And then that's why the Coopers are coming to Elliott, 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.320 because the partner is no longer alive, and they're like, 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.840 we know who killed our little girl. It's Matthew Brotis 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.360 the psycho who's about to be executed in three days, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.560 and they basically explained They're like, we had come to 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.720 terms with like never knowing who killed our daughter, but 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.600 then we saw his press conference. I'm sorry, I didn't 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.000 realize we were giving serial killers press conferences. Can we 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.320 YouTube some serial killer press conferences? 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.200 I mean, like, I just was confused about this. 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.680 There's a couple wild holes in this episode that I 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.280 will discuss. One is, a serial killer gets a press 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.000 conference where he said that he wants to sell tickets 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.520 to his execution to raise money for his daughter's education, 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.000 but he doesn't have any kids. And then the school 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.440 he mentions is Our Lady of Light, which is the 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:09.520 school that their daughter. 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:10.000 Debbie went to. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.040 So he's like trolling them via this press conference. Elliott 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.120 like goes to Kragan and is like, this matches. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.600 This all matches. Craigan's like, why didn't the computer match it? 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:21.960 Like, and He's like it was pre ViCAP, which they 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.000 talk about ViCAP a lot on the show. If you 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.280 haven't If you don't know, it's Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.840 which is like a national database of crimes and. 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.200 Criminals used by the FBI. 0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.240 To like, you know, match signature emos and stuff like that. 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.480 So this guy we should mention Brotus is in jail 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.680 in New Jersey. That's where he's about to be executed. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.400 So now there's like a whole NJ New York like 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.560 thing where. And you know how it is with New 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.120 York and New Jersey. I feel like there's always a 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:48.080 little bit of a rivalry. 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.320 Sure, but New Jersey knows their worst, yes, like you can't. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.040 How can they not? They're going to be in a 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:55.320 rivalry with New York. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:17:01.720 Like your name better be Tokyo or London, New Jersey. 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.880 Right, So okay, So Craigan says, New Jersey's not gonna 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.439 let us near this hump. I thought hump was like 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.840 a name for a criminal. I extensively googled the word 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.400 hump last night. You know, I got some interesting thing 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:19.160 results because I remember in Silence of the Lambs, which 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.280 I'm going to bring up again, I remember them talking 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.880 about Buffalo Bill and going, oh, he skins his humps, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:25.480 like that was a thing they said. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:26.840 But I think that what they're actually saying is like 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:27.840 he skins women that. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.280 He sexually assaults or whatever, which is a gross way 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.399 to refer to it. But it also hump means like 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.360 an idiot or something, so I think that's Craigan says 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:38.360 the word hump all the time. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:40.320 Have you heard it before? No, he does. 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.040 He's like, I don't know this hump like, so I 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:43.800 think he's talking about like an idiot. I thought it 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.040 had more legal if you are like a legal person 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.119 and there's like a legal definition behind hump. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.240 Please Instagram. It's slang. I don't know if it's in 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:52.960 the law books. 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:54.760 No, no, no, but you know, like the way the way 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:56.240 that you say purp or like whatever. 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:56.600 You know. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.440 I think I feel like there is some kind of thing. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:00.720 So Craigan is like nude or he's not gonna let 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.560 us near him, and he probably wondn't. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:03.119 Even talk to us. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.600 This serial killer, and Huang's like, a ah, this guy 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.000 is a different kind of serial killer like most. I 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:12.960 thought this was interesting and I'm sure that there's a 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.000 lot of research that goes into this. They're like most 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.560 serial killers tend to kill their victims immediately and then 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:18.040 take their. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:18.800 Time with the bodies. 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:20.760 Like I think that's what Bundy did. That's what a 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.840 lot of guys did. Brotus is different, like he kept 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:26.800 them around for a long time to torture them, like 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.399 he needs an audience he likes sort of that he 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.280 likes the reactions, so they think Wong thinks he actually 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:32.840 would be. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.119 Likely to talk, and they're all really like skeptical of 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.560 Wang in this episode. Yeah, it's annoy and they're just like, 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:40.919 I don't know about you, and it's like he's in 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.359 the FBI and smart, can you just listen to him? 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.800 This is definitely an arc, the beginning of the Huang 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.119 arc where they're trying where he has to like prove 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.840 himself to the NYPD, which is crazy because he's obviously 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.200 very qualified and good at his job and in the FBI. Yeah, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.720 well you'll well, we'll get to it later. But there's 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.040 another comment about the FBI that I was confused about. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.960 So a lot of details about Debbie's death match the 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:10.600 New Jersey victims, except that he blinded this victim and 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.680 Wang said that's symbolic because he was never going to 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.240 let her live anyway, so she must have known him, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.960 and Stabler says, yeah, that's what my partner Rosetti always said, 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.480 Like it's somebody that she knew this guy, but they 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:25.159 could never find him. So Wang explains that Brotus is 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.880 a multi victim signature killer, which is very rare. 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.400 He might be able to get Do we not see 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:32.000 Benson at all? We do later. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.840 I was like, She's like she must have had like 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.520 shit to do. She's in this episode for five minutes. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.080 So Huang says, because he's such a rare kind of killer, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.560 maybe I can get a field interview and like and 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.320 even though like, even though that FBI can't like force 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.199 New Jersey to cooperate, He's like, maybe like the brass 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:51.760 can grease the wheel and I can get in there 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:56.080 with this guy. We also find out that Elliott's former partner, Rosetti, 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.320 who worked on this case, took his own life over 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.399 this case, so that's kind of what they where the 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.960 steaks are that. Elliot's like, I got to clear this 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.040 for my not only these parents, but also my partner, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:07.480 who like. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.680 Oh selfish, yes, no, I get it. Make this murder 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:15.160 about you. So Craigan's like, all right, you've got seventy 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.840 two hours now. Munch brings the evidence, a bunch of 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.240 evidence from Debbie's case to the extremely hot CSU tech 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:26.280 Bert Trevor played by Daniel Sunjada who also plays super 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.159 hot Navy guy in Sex and the City and James 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.600 Holt in Devilware's Prada. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.400 Yeah, two huge roles. 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.880 We followed his career. I've followed it pretty closely. He's 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.040 always on the USA network. He's extremely hot. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:39.880 Yes, he was on a USA Yeah, like a bunch 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:41.840 of sea. We put him on Instagram. 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.439 We do grids and everyone votes on stuff, and we 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:45.560 put him on the hotty List. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:46.720 Not one answer for him. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.040 I think just because he's not as well known, people 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.280 are picking their faves, they're picking their little guys of things. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:52.920 I was just shocked. He's really hot. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.920 Well, he's been in I think I counted fifteen episodes 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:56.400 of S Few. 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.240 He was in seasons like three, four, and five. 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.719 My favorites when he asked there's like a broken bottle 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:02.800 and he has to put it back together to try 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:03.800 to find a fingerprint. 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:05.000 That's my favorite moment of. 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.720 His very talented, very talented, tech, hot, hot hot ass man. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.720 So basically, Hi, They're like, they give this guy the 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:14.639 evidence and they're like, find us something. We got to 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.600 tie something to brotus or like this case is going 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.480 to be open forever. Now we're at Lady of Light 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.840 trying to track down teachers who knew Debbie. There was 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:24.399 only a couple of teachers that gave a shit about Debbie, 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:26.720 I guess. And like one is out sick and the 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.119 other is named Vivian Parish, and she has moved to 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.639 like like another part of the country and no one 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.320 knows where she is. The principle gives them the name 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.240 of a plumbing company, because I should mention that Brotus 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:42.320 is a plumber's assistant apprentice. A plumber's apprentice, I mean 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:44.680 apprentice always makes me feel like it's like a magician's 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.240 apprentice with like its own little hat and the like cauldron. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.240 But I always think tattoos first. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.720 Oh, okay, see different, I guess different industries have apprentices. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:55.560 So he's a plumber's apprentice. 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.080 And they basically there was a plumbing job of a 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.000 boiler replacement going on at the school at the time 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:01.879 of Debbie's murder. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.000 So they go to this plumbing place. It sort of 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:06.280 doesn't really go anywhere. 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.960 They go to this guy, this plumbing company. This guy 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.119 has meticulous records. I'm very horny for how organized he is. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.160 He's like he's got like a full ledger of every 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:17.600 guy that's worked for him, all the apprentices, and he's like, you. 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:20.159 Think I had this psycho working for me. I didn't. Whatever. 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.240 So then as they leave this plumbing place, it's Munch 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.880 and Stable or they have this weird exchange where Munch 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:29.160 is like good news from the Feds, more like bend over, 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.960 we're taking over your case. And Stablers like John Times 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.080 have changed. They're not the lying bastards they used to be. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:36.400 And I'm like, I need to read a book about 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:38.680 the FBI or something. I didn't know the FBI used 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:40.800 to be a bunch of lying bastards and then got better. 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.199 Well, this is also like I think black people have 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.720 hated the FBI for a long time, right, I think 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:51.280 they've killed some leaders. I think they they did some murders. Yeah, 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.680 for sure, they did some stage murderers. So like, I 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.320 know that like much should definitely not trust them. That's 0:22:59.359 --> 0:22:59.800 in line with. 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:01.240 His right, that's true. 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.480 But it's just funny that Stabler's like they're better, the 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:05.720 FBI is cool now. 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.800 And the cops are just jealous. They want who joins 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:10.679 the force that doesn't want to be in the FBI. 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:13.040 There's an amazing South. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.440 Park episode a few seasons ago where like the governments 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.000 try to trap these like white and cells, but they 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.040 trick them into being like, we need you to save 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.480 this mission, and every guy's like, of course, the government 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.479 needs my help. Like, so they're able to trap all 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.200 these guys because they all believe that. 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.400 They could be CIA masters, so that they're like, yeah, 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.280 the star of their own action thriller. So now we're 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:40.200 at a hot dog stand with Wong, no time for lunch. 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.680 They're doing indirect personality assessments, which they refer to as 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.160 IPAs with Brotus's cellmates. 0:23:46.160 --> 0:23:47.720 So Brotos has two former cell mates. 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:50.360 One is named Robert Rule, he's in jail for life 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.600 for rape and manslaughter, and then Leroy Russell is on 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.600 death row for killing a kid in a convenience to 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.600 a robbery. He has converted to Islam. Now he's a 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.080 model no, but refuses to talk to the FEDS. So 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:06.080 the whole point of these IPAs our background, get his likes, 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:09.280 get his dislikes, ways to relate to him. And of 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.080 course Stabler thinks he knows everything. He's like, I've dealt 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.440 with serial killers, and Huong keeps being like, this guy 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.199 is different. Like those guys that you've dealt with have 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.720 only hunted for short periods of time. This guy was 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:23.720 doing it for years undetected, like Dahmer, Lucas and Bundy. 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.000 I didn't know who Lucas was, so I looked him up. 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.160 Henry Le Lucas, who is the associate of Otis Toole, 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:32.840 who comes up later in the episode, who I guess 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:36.040 was working for decades before he was caught. 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:36.520 He was. 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.280 He's also famous because he kept lying. He kept confessing 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.399 to crimes he didn't do, right. So he yeah, so, 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.639 which I find silly. It's like faking credits. I don't know. 0:24:48.320 --> 0:24:51.160 So they just fucked with a lot of investigations because 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:53.480 they confessed to all these crimes they didn't commit, right. 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.400 But this is wild to think about, and we'll get 0:24:57.400 --> 0:24:59.080 into it with the real crime. But it is wild 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:01.920 to think about how many serial killers are just out 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:05.280 and about and you don't know how long they're planning 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:06.200 each kill. 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.840 Like it. It is creepy. Yeah, it's creepy to think, no, 0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:10.880 for sure, And. 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:12.959 That's like the kind of guy this guy is. So 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.160 he's like, yeah, it takes years for killers like this 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:17.240 to relax their guard, and of course they get more 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:20.159 pliable the closer you get to their execution date. But 0:25:20.200 --> 0:25:23.000 you also have to remember that, like this is a 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:25.240 game and Brotus is holding all the cards is basically 0:25:25.280 --> 0:25:28.000 what Huong tells him. So now we're talking to Robert Rule, 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.560 one of the first excelmates, and this is Turtle from 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:32.159 Sex and the City. This is the guy that was 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:33.800 the Turtle that Samantha gave. 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:37.600 A makeover to, who loved mushrooms. Yeah, oh yeah, who 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.080 liked mushrooms. He's like, these are Porkuccini's. 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:44.560 I don't know that porcini pcheese and he had bad breath, 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:45.160 and like she. 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.840 Turned him around. She has she bought him helmet lang. 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:51.440 Yeah, so he wants a deal and Huong's like, no deal, 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:53.199 I'm not going to like make you a deal, and 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:56.119 so they walk out of the interviews. Stabler's pissed and 0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:59.119 Huang's like, Rule doesn't have shit, Like Brotoses wouldn't have 0:25:59.119 --> 0:25:59.919 trusted a guy like this. 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:01.439 He would have thought this guy was beneath him. 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:03.520 He never would have opened up to him. And Stable's like, 0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:04.960 you don't get up from the table till you have 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:08.919 seen everybody's hand. And then Huong's like, just FYI, the 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:11.960 FBI is running these interviews and I'm not offering any deals, 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.160 and he kind of like puts Stabler in his place. 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:15.959 Which I like to see. You love to see it. 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:22.119 So now we're in Cabot's office and Stabler is like, 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.359 come on, help me out. Let's do something like file 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:27.000 a temporary stay. And she's like, we need evidence to 0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:28.560 link bro Us to this victim. I can't just like 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.200 stop an execution. New Jersey's not going to let it happen. 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:33.040 She's like, let me go to New Jersey and ask 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.720 an old friend for a favor. So we're an hour 0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:40.040 in New Jersey and we meet executive Ada Alan Messinger. 0:26:40.160 --> 0:26:45.320 Messenger Messinger played by Ty Burrell aka Phil Dunfie from 0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:48.679 Modern Family in a very different role. He's like shutting 0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:50.520 her down. He's like, I'm in the home stretch of 0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:52.680 this execution. I can't afford any fuck ups. So you're 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:55.280 not like and she's trying to say, I'm not trying 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.879 to sabotage your execution, and he goes, you thought ancient 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.080 history would get you a seat at the table, and 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.159 I'm like, we can assume the two have fucked, right yeaheah, Okay. 0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:06.960 So he's like, you're good, Alex, not spectacular, and I'm like, 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.800 check yourself, Alex Cabot is spectacular right in my mind. 0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:13.920 Yes, she's also in New York. Yeah, she's better than 0:27:13.960 --> 0:27:14.680 you already. 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.520 Yeah. I was like, you watch your goddamn Mouthfield Dumpy. Yeah. 0:27:18.520 --> 0:27:20.080 When people are like people in New York think they're 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:23.679 better than everyone, I go, yeah. 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:24.280 Have you been there? Of course they are. 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:30.159 He also references Henry ly Lucas and Bundy and was like, 0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:33.280 these guys will say anything to stay their executions. And 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:35.679 he's like, no one gets access periods. He's like shutting 0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:40.000 Cabot down. Back at the lab, there was not enough blood. 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.879 The fibers are consistent with a Plumber uniform, the tape 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.000 is consistent with the other victims. 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:46.160 Nothing is a smoking gun. 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:48.919 They could maybe compare the fibers to New Jersey, but 0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:51.320 those are going to be hard to get. So basically, 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:54.040 the lab has given us like a smidge of hope. 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:55.320 But not not anything huge. 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:59.600 Now in Cabot's office, Stabler is asking Cabot he's basically 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:03.119 trying to go around Huang to offer a deal to Rule, 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:05.440 the guy who is in jail and wanted the deal, 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:07.919 and she's like, I'm not doing that. I'm like, I 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.359 can't give a deal to this guy who's got life, basically, 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.400 and Elliott is pushing it really hard. He's just like, 0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:16.200 this guy has twelve victims, he kept them all alive, 0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:21.240 blah blah blah, and he basically is playing two Cabot's 0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:24.200 emotional side. He's like, come on, like, we really need 0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:26.560 this for these people, Like how many times have you 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:28.679 had a case where you'd have to tell the victims 0:28:28.720 --> 0:28:30.359 you have no information for them. 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:32.639 This is your chance to like redo it basically. 0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:36.399 Okay, So now it's two days before the execution, Cabot 0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:38.080 has come through and Elliott has figured out a way 0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:39.800 to talk to Rule without Huang there. 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:43.160 Stabler is offering a change of venue. 0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:45.280 That he can move to different prison, to the Dan 0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:48.360 Barry Federal Prison, which you assume is nicer than wrikers. 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:49.040 I guess. 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:54.120 Rule gives Elliott the sob story about his daughter. He's like, 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:55.440 I just want you to call her and find out 0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.200 how she's doing. I'm not going to talk unless you 0:28:57.240 --> 0:29:00.040 call my daughter. Elliott uses his cell phone, calls this 0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:03.000 number that this criminal has given him and says, hi, 0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:05.000 I'm calling on behalf of Robert Rule. When the woman 0:29:05.040 --> 0:29:07.720 picks up the phone and then immediately Robert Rule starts 0:29:07.760 --> 0:29:10.000 screaming I miss you so much, and then she hangs 0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:13.080 up the phone. So not a great phone call. And 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:16.880 obviously he did his part, and Elliott got nothing from 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:19.400 Robert Rule. He's like he had nothing, only stuff he'd 0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:21.719 like read in the newspapers. So it was like Kwang 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.520 was right, dude. Now back at our Lady of Light, 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:28.520 the school, munch meets with one of Debbie's old teachers, 0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:32.360 Andrea Mason, who knew Debbie. She has like no information 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:34.920 and is like too cheerful talking about it. She's like, 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:37.120 I think it's great you guys are trying to find 0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:39.360 her killer. I'm like, you don't remember a lot of 0:29:39.360 --> 0:29:42.720 information about a girl who was horrifically brutally murdered ten 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.200 years ago. Like she's like a lot of kids come 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:46.760 in and out of this school. I'm like, but this 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.960 one is pretty special. Like it's just like she's it's 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:55.400 a weird performance. I'll just say that and then Elliott 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.840 is basically talking to Huang and he's like, yeah, Rule 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:00.800 gave us nothing, and Huang like, one of these days 0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:03.480 you're gonna realize I know what I'm doing. And then 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:06.920 Brooklyn Sbew shows up looking for Stabler. Turns out that 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.200 that number that Stabler had called was one of Rule's 0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:11.800 rape victims, and they're pissed that he has gone and 0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:13.840 like traumatize this woman. So what I want to know 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:16.320 is like did the daughter exist? Like who's the daughter? 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:20.360 He's a liar, he's a criminal, and Elliot's a fucking idiot. 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:24.200 Like what the fuck, bro, You're just you go against everyone. 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:28.080 You're just so selfish and now you've re traumatized a victim. 0:30:28.320 --> 0:30:30.280 Yeah, so he gets in trouble for that. He has 0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:31.040 to apologize. 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:33.560 Craigan is like lecturing him for being a dumb ass, 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:36.480 and he's like, I already called and apologized, and Craigan's like, 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:39.240 all smooth things over, which seems like Craigan's whole life 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:42.240 is smoothing over things that Elliott Stabler has done incorrectly. 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:46.600 At the precinct, we finally see Benson and Finn. Benson 0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:49.440 has her short thought she was gonna get fired for 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.160 it haircut, and they're all shitting on Finn for not 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:55.560 getting his weapon recertified and they're like, your weapon went 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:57.640 off too soon or whatever, and it's like there's a 0:30:57.680 --> 0:30:59.840 pill for that. It's like a fun little viagra moment 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:04.160 from two thousand and two when this episode a hair Now, 0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:06.320 Stabler is like having a hard time figuring out how 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.320 to get in with Leroy Russell, the other cellmate, because 0:31:09.560 --> 0:31:12.400 he is like converted to Islam and like't won't talk 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:15.400 to the Feds, and Finn knows, of course, a ton 0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.480 about Islam, and it's like, say, he's got a blood debt. 0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:20.760 Like in the Quran it says he took a life, 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:24.040 so he owes a debt for spilling blood. So that's 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:27.520 kind of basically what the angle that Stabler goes after 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:29.400 is he goes to appeal to the father of the 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.440 murdered kid and says, can you like it's so sad. 0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:33.760 He goes to his house and the guy has like 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:35.520 a shrine to his son who was. 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.960 Killed against Stabler being an idiot here going this will 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:41.400 He's like, I don't mean to open up your wounds 0:31:41.520 --> 0:31:44.480 and the dad's like, yeah, when your kid gets murdered. 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:48.280 Your wounds don't just heal? Yeah, fucking numb nunt right. 0:31:48.840 --> 0:31:52.520 I'm anti Stabler. I am loving this episode though your 0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:53.600 retelling is good. 0:31:56.200 --> 0:31:58.640 He says to the father of this kid who was 0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:01.920 killed by Leroy Russell, I know you spoke out at 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:04.200 his sentencing opposing the death penalty, so I feel like 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:06.960 you could find it in your heart to speak to 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.520 him to try to help us get closure for another family. 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.719 And the guy seems a little bit pissed, but eventually 0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:13.560 he does do it. 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:15.800 He shows the dad. 0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:17.480 A picture of Debbie and that kind of you know, 0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:20.080 softens him up. So now they're at Dana Mora another 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:22.320 big prison. Escape from Dana Morra was like the big 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:25.240 movie that there is actually an SVU based on where 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.960 that woman helped you guys get escape from that prison. Uh, 0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:31.360 it's death row at Dana Mora and Leroy is brought 0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:34.080 in and the dad tells him like, he's like, I 0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:36.320 owe you a debt. The killer says to him and 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:38.000 he's like, you can never repay it. To just talk 0:32:38.040 --> 0:32:38.719 to these cops. 0:32:39.400 --> 0:32:42.480 The killer is a big oz actor. Oh he is. 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:46.200 Yeah, Oh okay, you know I've got a blind spot 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:47.440 for oz, but I'm. 0:32:47.320 --> 0:32:49.400 Here to pick it up. Yeah, pick up all the pieces. 0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:52.240 So basically he's like, we played. 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:53.680 A Muslim there too, So I guess he has a 0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:57.920 real Muslim vibe. Yeah, okay, yeah, another Muslim in me. 0:32:58.080 --> 0:32:59.080 He's really type cast. 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:04.440 Yeah. So he shared a cell with Brotus for three years. 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:06.600 He goes he's a killer. He would ask me questions 0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:08.880 like how I got on death row, who I killed? 0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:11.280 And my answers pissed him off because I think he 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:14.680 couldn't like it wasn't like a like, it wasn't like 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.000 a sexy enough murder for him. He wasn't getting like 0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:21.240 a boner over the details. Now, Leroy explains that Brotos 0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:24.400 took joy in killing and stalking, gutting, doing things. 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:24.720 To the body. 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.240 Thought he was smarter than everyone else, even when he 0:33:27.280 --> 0:33:28.680 fucked up, like he said. 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:30.320 He killed a blind girl close to home. 0:33:30.680 --> 0:33:32.440 So this is like ding ding, This is like the 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.920 little connection that we need. And then there's like a 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:39.120 sad moment where the dad's like, what were my son's 0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:41.320 final moments like? And he was like, sir, you don't 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:43.320 need the image of your boy dying with my voice 0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.680 in your head telling you how and that's it. So 0:33:45.720 --> 0:33:49.920 that's kind of a sad little side story. So now 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:52.240 Elliot's talking to Cabat and Kebit's like, I mean that's great, 0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:54.560 but like this is too this is hearsay from a 0:33:54.560 --> 0:33:57.160 guy on death row. Here's the part of this. It 0:33:57.200 --> 0:33:59.880 makes absolutely no fucking sense to me. In this Munch 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:03.240 has found Vivian Parrish, that other teacher who was close 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:03.880 with Debbie. 0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:08.800 Turns out she was She dated Brotus for six months 0:34:08.840 --> 0:34:11.759 and regularly picked her up from that school and a 0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:13.719 couple of times gave Debbie a ride home. 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:17.400 How in the fucking world would the cops not have 0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:19.360 found that in the first round of investigations. 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:20.520 It's New Jersey. 0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:25.000 I mean, okay, that's just how to me, Like, she's 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:26.440 close to two teachers. 0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:27.640 You talk to those teachers. 0:34:27.640 --> 0:34:30.800 The teacher doesn't go, actually, I'm dating a serial killer, 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:32.360 or like the teacher doesn't give any information. 0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:34.880 But the teacher doesn't know that she's dating a serial 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:36.719 killer yet well she eventually. 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.960 This is to me also a place where I would 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:42.120 have loved to have met Vivian Parish. In this episode, 0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:44.680 they only talk about her like as an entity. 0:34:44.920 --> 0:34:46.120 Maybe if Zoom was around. 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:48.480 Yeah, we could have zoomed her in a FaceTime with 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:51.160 Vivian because she had moved to New Mexico, and like, 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.480 I just feel like you would have checked all you 0:34:54.520 --> 0:34:56.719 would have checked all the bases, Like the parents would 0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:57.319 have been like, oh yeah. 0:34:57.320 --> 0:34:59.399 A couple of times her teacher, Vivian Pears, brought her home. 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:01.200 He misus parish like, whoever brought you? 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:01.520 Who? 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:03.120 I don't know. I'm not a fucking cop, but I 0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:05.279 just feel like this would have It's a huge hole. 0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:08.360 So then Debbie's parents are at the precinct and they're like, 0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.360 what's our next move? And Cabot's kind of like, I 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.799 can't prove this in court, but we are reasonably sure 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:14.600 of his guilt and he's going to be executed. And 0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:16.799 that's when the mother brings up Otis Toole, who is 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:19.800 the man who is believed to have killed Adam Walsh, 0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.120 the six year old son of John Walsh. 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:25.240 Who was the host of America's Most Wanted This Killer. 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:29.440 Otis Toole Allegedly everyone thought he killed Adam Walsh, We'll 0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:31.920 get into that later in the episode. And he died 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.040 of AIDS on death roll before. 0:35:33.760 --> 0:35:34.440 It was proven. 0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:38.879 So they're basically saying, like his hope died the day 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:41.040 that Otis Toole died, and we don't want our hope 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.759 to die like the way that that happened to him. 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:47.200 So that again tugs on Cabot's heart strings and reaches her. 0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:50.719 So she goes to meet with Brotus's lead counsel and 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:53.279 who looks like the date rapist guy I've ever seen. 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:55.440 Sorry if you're a listener, sir, but you have a 0:35:55.520 --> 0:35:56.720 very very scary face. 0:35:57.120 --> 0:35:59.399 He puts his feet up on the table while he's 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:02.120 talking to her. Don't like his attitude, and he's like, 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.279 oh yeah, let's put Brotus on trial. Let's get we'll 0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:06.600 gain him six to twelve more months, maybe eighteen if 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:07.800 I drown you in paperwork. 0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:12.880 So they're basically colluding to get this stay of execution 0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:14.640 to happen just so he can live a little bit 0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:17.000 longer and she can get some closure for this family. 0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:19.759 Now we are one day before execution. We're in this 0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:20.600 New Jersey court. 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:26.040 Cabot is facing off against Phil Dunfie aka Messinger. He's 0:36:26.080 --> 0:36:29.680 saying the evidence is circumstantial. She's saying, we don't even 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:31.600 want to try, and we just want the opportunity to 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.040 discover the truth. If he dies, the truth dies with him. 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:38.680 So then afterwards they're at a bar. Dunfey slides into 0:36:38.719 --> 0:36:41.359 the booth with Alex and is basically like. 0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:42.480 Okay, we'll let you talk to him. 0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:44.719 Just promise me that you're not going to prosecute him 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:47.480 even if he confesses to you, like, we just want 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:49.399 this execution to go off, like and then you'll get 0:36:49.400 --> 0:36:50.960 the closure for your family. 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:51.680 And we you know whatever. 0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:55.359 So now it's act for of this episode. We're four 0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:58.200 hours to execution. Elliot and Huang are like prepping. They're 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:01.640 at the jail. They're about to meet Brotus. Wang is 0:37:01.680 --> 0:37:04.040 basically like, I'll be bad cop Elliot. It's gonna be 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:05.759 kind of like the good cop. He's like, you be 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:09.000 his friend when I stress him out, is what Hoong says. 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:11.280 It might work. They might run out of time. 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:15.000 So Brotos comes in, Stabler shakes his hand. Hoong doesn't 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:17.640 sets it up right away. I'm not here to make friends, 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:20.239 that's Wong. Okay, he's on America's Next not Model and 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:23.640 he is not here to make friends. And they call 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:25.680 him Matthew Brotus or something, and he's like, you can 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:28.640 call me Matt. He's like extremely arrogant right off the top. 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:31.920 He's like grinning at the idea that he. 0:37:31.880 --> 0:37:34.279 Doesn't have kids, you know, Like he's like, I mean, 0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:37.520 like anyone would admit it. Like he's just being really gross. 0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:40.520 And then they are they say like, why didn't you 0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:42.880 kill your girlfriend Vivian Parish? 0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:44.160 He's not giving them a lot. 0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:47.319 Howong brings up his insomnia and then suddenly he's like, 0:37:47.320 --> 0:37:47.839 what's in that? 0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:48.920 What's that? What are you holding? 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:50.719 And Wang's got a folder and he's like, oh, it's 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.600 just just another case I'm working on. I thought maybe 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.200 I could get your help. Which serial killers love that? 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:58.719 I feel like, like Ted Bundy, they went to Ted 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.000 Bundy about the Green River killer, Like they go to 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:03.520 these serial killers to try to be like, you guys 0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:05.840 are a special breed. Tell us about how you do 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:08.319 your work so we can find this other guy, you know. 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:11.840 So he basically wants to ask Brotus's opinion about this 0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:17.319 killer's m O. And they discussed the three d's of sadism, dread, dependency, 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:18.120 and degradation. 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:21.319 So Brotus obviously is like hungry to. 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:23.480 See this folder. He opens it up. He's pissed there's 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:25.960 no crime scene photos right, He's like, what is this? 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:28.320 And then he just sees the one photo of Debbie, 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:30.759 which honestly looks like it was taken in nineteen fifty two. 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.760 She's like, in it's like an airbrushed sailor dress photo, 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:36.160 and I think it's almly supposed to be like early nineties. 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:40.000 But he crumples up the picture. He pushes the folder. 0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:42.640 Away and he's like, you're kind of like this guy, 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:44.400 Like you both chose big girls. 0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:45.320 Stuff like that. 0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:48.680 And then they're describing the crime and Brotus is like 0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:52.279 getting turned on and it's really disgusting. And then he 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:55.080 describes like cutting open a victim is being born again, 0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:58.040 and Huang's like, it's not about religion. The womb is 0:38:58.080 --> 0:38:59.920 like the one place where a mother can never abandon. 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:01.040 Now we get. 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:05.279 Into his mom issues. Elliott brings up Brotos's mom is like, 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.200 she hated you, she abandoned you multiple times, and Brotos 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:10.239 is like, she loved me. 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:13.800 Like he doesn't. He doesn't like being psychoanalyzed. 0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:17.719 He's very much on stabler side that shrinks are are losers. 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:21.640 And then Ellie is like how many times were you 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:24.480 with Debbie post mortem? And Brotus is like, that's obscene. 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:28.120 It always like, is so interesting to me? What these 0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:33.200 disgusting like monsters think is too far, Like I'll do 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:35.400 all this horrible shit, I'll torture someone for days, but 0:39:35.480 --> 0:39:37.200 like be with the body once they're dead. 0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:39.120 Ew, It's like, I don't know. 0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:42.600 So he says he only went back to the victims 0:39:42.600 --> 0:39:45.759 to check that they were still there, and Stabler was like, well, 0:39:45.800 --> 0:39:47.319 this guy went back to the victim to be with 0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:49.759 them and gives Brotos a wink. Sorry, it's kind of 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.040 a hot wink from Stabler. I kind of wanted someone 0:39:52.040 --> 0:39:53.680 to make it into a gift. Please do that if 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:54.400 you know how to do that. 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:56.560 So they stay to Brotus. 0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.040 Vivian Parish said, you had a hard time getting it up, 0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:01.520 and he's like, I should have killed her before she 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:04.000 went out west. Debbie just wanted someone to tell her 0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:05.920 ugly ass that she was pretty. Thought she was in 0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:09.000 a harlequin romance. So he says Debbie even though he 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.759 means Vivian slip of the tongue and he goes, that's 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:13.319 one of my other victims. And they're like no, none 0:40:13.320 --> 0:40:15.719 of your other victims are named Debbie or Deborah or 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:16.479 their middle names. 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:18.120 They well knows all their names. 0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:22.400 So he puts his head down on the table and 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:24.200 is like, what time is it? And that's where we 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:26.279 started the episode. So now we've caught up to where 0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:29.880 we started the episode. Messinger and Cabot are at the 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:33.600 jail like just chatting when alarms go off and a 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:35.960 lockdown is initiated, and that's kind of when we know 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:40.319 that this man has attacked Huang and Stabler. They they 0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:44.080 keep they push Cabot and Messinger back and they keep going, go, 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:46.120 go go, but they're making them walk backwards. 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.960 Turn them around, like let them walk forward, they should 0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:52.759 turn themselves around. They're just like shuffling backwards. It was 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:55.360 very funny to me. Also the attack. 0:40:55.440 --> 0:40:56.960 I don't know if you're going to say this, but 0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:00.239 he you know, because then you think that Huan and 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.560 Stabler got him. But this was his plan all along, 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.719 because he says, he goes, what time is it because 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:10.920 he knows that's when the guards switch shifts, right, So 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:13.400 it's kind of like they thought that they were winning 0:41:13.440 --> 0:41:15.839 this thing, but all along he was just waiting till 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.080 five o'clock, so I can go now, which. 0:41:17.880 --> 0:41:20.319 Is very Hannibal Lefter, Like Hannibal Lecter knew when they 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.360 were switching shifts and like gets one of the guards 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:24.719 and it's like a whole thing, you know. So they 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:28.720 lock Messinger and Cabot in a cell, like it's basically 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:31.920 like the audience area for watching the execution, and all 0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:34.359 these families are like, when is the show starting. It's 0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:39.680 really awkward, And then we cut to the scene where 0:41:39.920 --> 0:41:43.600 Brotus is bashing Huang's head against the wall and he's 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:45.680 got Stabler in a choke hold and he goes Debbie 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:48.480 didn't fight back, So there's the confession that we've wanted 0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:51.080 this whole time. Then the guards pulled him apart, and 0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:53.239 the guards start beating the shit out of Brotus, and 0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:54.840 Elliott's like, stop, stop, that's. 0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:55.320 What he wants. 0:41:56.560 --> 0:41:59.120 And so then the way the episode ends, Huong is 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:01.560 going to be all right. Brotus is on a ventilator 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.320 and the state is not allowed to execute an unhealthy man, 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:06.840 so they just have to like let the families of 0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:08.840 the victims know that, like this is going to go 0:42:08.880 --> 0:42:11.319 on until he either recovers or he's just he could 0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:12.680 be in a coma forever. 0:42:12.440 --> 0:42:15.120 Like, and I felt like ty Burrell had a really 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:18.279 good acting moment. I was like full on with him 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:20.759 when Stadler's like, I'll tell them, and he goes, they 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:21.560 don't give a shit. 0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:23.160 Yeah, He's like, they don't care. Would you? 0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:25.480 And I'm like, I actually kind of would. I'm anti 0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:27.040 death penalty, so I guess like. 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:27.799 But I would. 0:42:27.920 --> 0:42:30.680 I would be like, it's fine to stay the execution 0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:33.320 for a little bit if it helps another family get closure. 0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:35.799 I don't think. I don't know how, Like you're just 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:37.280 assuming people are very selfish. 0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:40.200 I feel like, So Elliott leaves the prison and there's 0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:44.680 all these protesters outside that are probably pro and against execution, 0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:47.080 and then he sees the coopers and the show fades 0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:49.080 to black Wright as he's about to tell them that, 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.279 you know, they figured out who killed their daughter? 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:53.280 Yeah? Wow, Yeah. 0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:57.080 And that's the episode, And it was a it was 0:42:57.080 --> 0:42:58.440 a lot of ins and out, so there's a lot 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:00.640 of moving around in this lot of we're going cross 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:02.360 state lines, we're in a New Jersey. 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:05.520 I'm just wondering for a killer, why wouldn't he have 0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:08.400 just confessed to this crime. We're already getting the death penalty, 0:43:08.520 --> 0:43:10.200 like what was the game playing? 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:13.640 Yeah, it is weird. I don't know. 0:43:13.840 --> 0:43:17.359 Oh, I think maybe because it might be because he 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:20.920 messed with the body after it was dead, or like 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:23.680 some of that, Like there was some shame with that. 0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:25.839 He said, like too close to home. Like I guess 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:27.520 he did most of his other killings in New Jersey. 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:29.400 I don't know. It's a great question. 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:32.480 There's another episode like this in the show where they're 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:33.759 just trying to get a guy to say he did 0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:36.240 these crimes and he's like, remember when he's sniffing. 0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.920 The baseball hat. Yes, And he's. 0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:39.680 Like, I know every kid I did, and I didn't 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:43.399 do this one. And it's like, but you know, I don't. 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:45.120 I need to remember that episode, sad. 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:47.440 I've recently just watched it. Did he actually kill the 0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:48.359 kid that they think he did? 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:50.440 I don't even remember. That's why we watched these over 0:43:50.480 --> 0:43:54.200 and over again. That's the point, Like, I've watched all 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:55.839 of them and you're asking me a question of one 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.480 I watched within the next last two weeks, and I'm like, 0:43:59.080 --> 0:44:02.640 no clue, But I'll sniff those hats again and be surprised. 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:06.120 All right, Well, let's take a quick break and then 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:08.279 I can't wait for you to take us into the 0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:09.279 reality of all of it. 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:25.479 So this crime, there's a couple different ones. I'll touch 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:28.239 on one and then get into details of another. And 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.960 heads up, there are some super disgusting, twisted, fucked up 0:44:32.000 --> 0:44:34.759 facts and I will be saying them, so I don't know, 0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:35.760 get a puke bucket. 0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:38.040 But I'm not censoring this. 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:41.840 But the first crime and Kara touched on it in 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:45.800 the episode, and Otis tool was mentioned in the Sview 0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:50.920 episode and basically he's a convicted serial killer and he 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:53.759 confessed to the murder of Adam Walsh, but he was 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.320 never convicted of it and there was never enough evidence 0:44:56.440 --> 0:45:00.560 to convict him, and so the confession was then also canted, 0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:04.760 and so there's a lot of confusing shit. And John Walsh, 0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:07.919 who is the host of America's Most Wanted, he never 0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:10.920 got closure and that's kind of been his mission is 0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:13.400 to be an advocate for victims of violent crimes because 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:16.239 of the murder of his son. So Otis is a 0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:19.280 drifter serial killer convicted of six counts of murder. 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:22.399 And what happened with Adam. 0:45:22.320 --> 0:45:24.960 Was July of nineteen eighty one, a boy and a 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:28.160 mother entered sears at one entrance, and the mom went 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:29.880 to go look at lamps, and the boy went to 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:33.920 go play video games in a console promotional area, and 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:36.120 the other boys that were playing were acting a fool, 0:45:36.200 --> 0:45:38.560 so the security guard kicked all the boys out, but 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.360 at another exit. And you know, baby brains can't really 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:45.160 like comprehend all that. Like I have a memory as 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.719 a kid turning one wrong way, and like, clearly this 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:50.879 wasn't the path to my home, but my little brain 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:55.600 just couldn't handle switching back around. And so at one 0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.520 point fifty five, they called the cops because they couldn't 0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:01.320 find the boy at all, and they found his head 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:03.840 in a drainage canal and the rest of his body 0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:07.440 was never discovered. The only thing that confused me was 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:11.279 they said that he died of exphyxiation, But how do 0:46:11.320 --> 0:46:14.240 you figure that out with just a decapitated head? 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:17.720 Maybe just the I capitlard, Yeah, I wonder. 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:21.160 So that's pretty gruesome and awful, and it sucks that 0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:24.600 they don't have closure. And Tool died in prison from 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:26.160 psoriasis at age forty nine. 0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:27.120 Well it was cirrhosis. 0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:30.360 Oriasis is a skin condition that I actually have cirrhosis 0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:34.200 is a disease of the liver. But what's crazy is 0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:38.080 in this episode, uh, Stabler goes he died of AIDS 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:41.200 in prison, and I looked it up and it just 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:43.080 nowhere that you look it says AIDS. And then if 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:45.920 you look up otis tool AIDS, it says a couple 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.680 of random places say he died of cirrhosis and AIDS. 0:46:49.200 --> 0:46:52.319 And it's just interesting that that's what SVU went with. 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:54.120 They were like, he died of AIDS. It's like, well, 0:46:54.239 --> 0:46:57.680 most places say he died of cirrhosis. Yeah, I mean 0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:01.400 it's pretty wild. It's crazy. I honestly feel like he 0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:04.000 did not kill him. It seems like he was confessing 0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:05.920 to a famous crime because he was a little bit 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:06.840 he was. 0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:08.760 I think he had like a very low IQ. 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:12.520 I think he had a traumatic life. But also one 0:47:12.560 --> 0:47:14.319 of the reasons why there was no evidence is because 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:17.799 the cops lost his car. They had his car and 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:19.880 I guess it was like impounded and then it was 0:47:19.960 --> 0:47:21.880 fully lost and like would have had blood and it 0:47:21.920 --> 0:47:23.640 would have had like all this stuff. 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.520 Yeah, the cops fucked up this investigation a few different times. 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.920 It was pretty annoying. 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:32.919 But also this is a huge crime. Just to mention 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:35.520 really quickly, this is a huge crime that sparked the 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:39.120 stranger danger whole thing that we grew up with. Like 0:47:39.200 --> 0:47:41.880 I grew up like watching videos in school about stranger 0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:44.200 danger and stuff, And I've been listening to some podcasts 0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:46.400 lately that are like, this is like a hysteria of 0:47:46.480 --> 0:47:50.040 stranger danger. Like the number of stranger danger crimes are extremely, 0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:51.239 extremely low and rare. 0:47:51.600 --> 0:47:53.799 Well we're saying that, but we talk about them all 0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:54.160 the time. 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:56.279 At first, they seem they're the ones because they're the 0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:57.879 ones they're going to talk about on TV. And half 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:00.600 these are made up on SVU, But if you look 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.400 at the numbers, it's not. Kids are not getting snatched 0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:08.040 left and right. Usually it's pretty rare. Yeah, but I 0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:11.319 mean for in the sv universe, it's happening on a 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:12.040 daily basis. 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:14.400 And another way the cops kind of fucked up is 0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:18.000 they wanted him to do it because it. 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:19.040 Would close it up. 0:48:19.239 --> 0:48:23.239 Yeah, so it was bad, but it is amazing what 0:48:23.280 --> 0:48:25.440 Adam Walsh has been able to do and like what 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:28.040 he's done for victims' rights, and it's just like really 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.120 sad and it reminds me of the dad in the episode, 0:48:30.239 --> 0:48:32.840 like your wounds don't heal? If you need a child, 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:34.960 you know, you're just always going to be a different person. 0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:39.400 The crime I wanted to more focus on was Ed Kemper, 0:48:39.960 --> 0:48:42.399 and he's pretty famous, a lot of movies, a lot 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:45.719 of books, and the FBI did profile him. He has 0:48:45.840 --> 0:48:49.120 multiple pretty famous interviews you can watch on YouTube in 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:52.360 eighty one, eighty four and like ninety one. And he 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.960 was portrayed in the show mind Hunter, which I really liked. 0:48:55.960 --> 0:48:57.879 I only watched season one, but I liked it a lost. 0:48:57.880 --> 0:49:00.680 Season one's better than season two and he's not in 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:01.319 season two. 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.000 So yeah, he did an incredible job, and I liked 0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:05.560 all the actors. 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:07.480 And I felt the woman character in that show was 0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.160 so good. She was and she had horrible makeup. She 0:49:10.239 --> 0:49:12.080 was orange the whole time. Go back and watch it. 0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:14.319 She looks like a Simpsons character. Yeah, I did not 0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:17.160 notice the makeup team did her dirty, but go on. 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:20.680 So Ed Kemper is alive today. He was born in 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.000 nineteen forty eight and he is a Sagittarius. So if 0:49:24.000 --> 0:49:26.360 anyone was wanting to but. 0:49:26.440 --> 0:49:27.640 What's his rising sign? 0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:31.480 And the reason the FBI and everyone wanted to talk 0:49:31.520 --> 0:49:34.239 to him. Is because he was smart as hell. His 0:49:34.360 --> 0:49:38.000 IQ was super high, and so he was really like 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:41.239 self resp what is it introspective? Like he was able 0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:43.600 to talk about the crimes in a really detailed cool 0:49:43.640 --> 0:49:44.200 way that I. 0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:45.800 Guess a lot of other killers didn't. 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:47.680 And I think that he could look at what other 0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:50.480 criminals were doing and he could like synthesize information and 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:53.000 like analyze what motives and stuff like that. 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:55.320 The thing is like he is so interesting and smart 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:58.040 and whatever, and then you're like and then you research 0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:00.600 and you're like, you're an incel. You're just an insult 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.480 who wanted a fuck like that. At the end of 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.799 that any you're blaming your mom. I don't know, but 0:50:05.840 --> 0:50:07.759 the mom does seem like she sucks. But then I 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:10.359 don't fully believe it because so he blames a lot 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:14.680 of his rage and hatefulness and wild problems on how 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.040 his mom belittled him, treated him like trash, just hated 0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:18.760 him so much. 0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:21.520 And I guess his sister tried to kill him twice. 0:50:22.200 --> 0:50:24.759 What Yeah, like threw him in a deep end of 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.799 a pool and then like try to do something else 0:50:27.840 --> 0:50:28.359 fucked up. 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:30.160 To him and when I was reading a little bit 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:32.719 about Otis Toole. His mother used to dress him up 0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:35.839 in dresses and call him Susan. So moms are doing 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:37.000 some fucked up shit out there. 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:41.000 But the thing with the mom was she was nervous 0:50:41.040 --> 0:50:44.960 for her daughter's safety, so she locked him in a basement. 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:46.680 And wouldn't let him out so that he wouldn't hurt 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:47.080 the daughter. 0:50:47.360 --> 0:50:51.239 Yes, so then that he blames that for fucking him up. 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:55.320 But also he had already killed multiple cats. He buried 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.000 one of the family cats alive, then once it was dead, 0:50:58.160 --> 0:51:00.520 took it out, decapitated it, put it on a spike. 0:51:01.600 --> 0:51:04.560 He killed another one of the cats, like slaughtered it. 0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.279 He also is a kid loved to play electric chair 0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:10.280 and gas chamber and would like make his sisters blindfold 0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:11.759 him and then he would pretend to dine in an 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:15.960 electric chair. So I'm like, I understand if the mom 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.759 wanted to keep him away from her daughters. Yeah, you're 0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:23.839 like ripping heads off barbies. But then also did being 0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:29.120 trapped in a basement is like yeah exacerb at bit, Yeah, yeah, 0:51:29.160 --> 0:51:30.680 like wicked situation? 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:34.200 What is it is wicked? Are you born wicked? 0:51:34.280 --> 0:51:37.960 Or his wickedness thrust upon you, but he blames her 0:51:38.080 --> 0:51:41.520 for all of his problems. So she got sick of 0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:43.839 dealing with him and sent him to live with his 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:48.080 paternal grandparents in Northfolk, California. And then his parents did 0:51:48.160 --> 0:51:50.279 split up, and that caused some issues because he liked 0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:55.200 his dad, but it didn't work out living with him either. 0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:57.400 I mean, this kid was not easy. 0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.520 So the mother sent him to live with his paternal 0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:05.320 grandparents when he was a teenager, and at age fifteen, 0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:07.120 he got into a fight with his grandma in the 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:08.760 kitchen and just shot her dead. 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.640 In the kitchen. Oh, he shot her. 0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:16.120 He shot her, and then pos humously posts posthumously, post posthumously. 0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:18.400 Yeah, that sounds crazy. 0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:21.680 But after the dead there's all these post dead stab wounds. 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:25.000 So he was pissed at her, so he like shot her, 0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:27.400 stabbed her a bunch once she was dead, and then 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:30.200 when the grandpa came home, he went outside and shot 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:33.239 the grandpa outside. And when he talks about it, he goes, 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:36.800 I didn't want him to have to see his wife dead. Weird, 0:52:37.080 --> 0:52:40.600 So it's like nice in a way, Yeah, but no. 0:52:41.360 --> 0:52:44.120 But he's having empathetic feelings. That's what's interesting. 0:52:44.200 --> 0:52:46.920 Wow, he could also be lying, like he could just 0:52:46.920 --> 0:52:48.439 have wanted to kill him, but he was like, there's 0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:50.080 no reason for him to have seen that, so I 0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:56.080 just killed him. So it is very strange. It's tough 0:52:56.080 --> 0:52:58.800 to understand it all. So he was sent to Adas 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.240 Scadero State hospit it all, which was a max security 0:53:02.280 --> 0:53:05.759 for mentally ill convicts. They said that he suffered from 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:08.440 paranoid schizophrenia, but some of the doctors don't believe that 0:53:08.480 --> 0:53:11.880 at all because he didn't have voices and there weren't interruptions, 0:53:12.040 --> 0:53:13.920 and he wasn't I. 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:17.040 Don't I don't know what was going on in this hospital. 0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:21.640 Because basically he was such a model person and he 0:53:21.719 --> 0:53:24.360 was so smart that he ended up helping the doctors 0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:28.920 do psychovals on other patients, and he was like questioning 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:32.120 other patients. And so through all of the research, he 0:53:32.320 --> 0:53:36.560 learned how to trick the psychologists and psychiatrists into thinking 0:53:36.600 --> 0:53:40.440 he was rehabilitated because they gave him all of this knowledge. 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:44.920 And then he also learned tips from the other criminals. 0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:46.640 On how to be a better criminal. 0:53:47.160 --> 0:53:50.719 So instead of like he just basically learned how to 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:53.200 be a super instead, yeah, they supercharged him. 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:55.680 Like instead of like fixing him. They just kind of 0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:57.680 gave him like better powers. 0:53:57.920 --> 0:53:59.759 Yeah, like one of the people, like one of the 0:53:59.840 --> 0:54:03.520 less since he said he learned was he was told 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:05.920 never leave a victim alive because that's a witness. 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:07.399 Always kill anyone that you rape. 0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:09.040 And he was like, oh, yeah, I'll put that in 0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:11.400 my feather cap or whatever, like I'll put it. 0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:12.640 I'll remember that. 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:16.200 And he was a really hard worker and so he 0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:18.799 just did all this extra work there. And I guess 0:54:18.800 --> 0:54:23.640 sociopaths are hard workers, so it wasn't that surprising. But yeah, 0:54:23.680 --> 0:54:26.439 he got let out so at age twenty one after 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:28.200 killing his grandparents. 0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:32.000 He got out sixty months later. And not only but 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:34.000 he was only fifteen when he killed his grandparents. 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:37.600 Oh wow, okay, Yeah, so he got out at twenty one, 0:54:38.320 --> 0:54:41.840 and in November twenty ninth, nineteen seventy two, his younger 0:54:41.920 --> 0:54:43.360 record was expunged. 0:54:44.120 --> 0:54:47.399 So now he's out there like a perfectly like non 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:48.200 criminal person. 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:52.479 Yes, and then on his outside world time, he really 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:54.239 wanted to be a cop, but he couldn't because he 0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:57.080 was too big. So he was like six nine and 0:54:57.120 --> 0:54:59.279 three hundred pounds, and I guess that's too big to 0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:01.799 be a police office, sir, But he just hung out 0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:05.400 at cop bars and he became friends with all the 0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:08.000 cops to the point where cops were giving him handcuffs. 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:10.960 One of the cops gave him a gun, like cops 0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:13.600 gave him a fake like toy badge or some sort 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:16.480 of badge. But like, so he now was able to 0:55:16.600 --> 0:55:21.319 befriend psychologists and doctors and cops. And in one of 0:55:21.320 --> 0:55:23.120 the interviews, this is another thing where it's like he 0:55:23.239 --> 0:55:28.279 is so self aware, where he was asked like, so, 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:30.399 how did the cops feel about you? And he goes, 0:55:30.760 --> 0:55:34.440 I was a friendly nuisance. I annoyed them. So like 0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:37.479 he knows he's annoying to them. Yeah, didn't care enough 0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:41.040 because now he's friends with all these cops. Because even 0:55:41.400 --> 0:55:43.239 at one point, like I we'll get to it. But 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:45.200 like the cops had to search his place and they 0:55:45.200 --> 0:55:48.640 had all this evidence everywhere, and they didn't They were 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:52.200 like big ed nah and like totally didn't fully investigate. 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:56.400 And even when he was caught or like when he 0:55:56.600 --> 0:56:00.719 turned himself in, all the officers and santas were like. 0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:03.000 No way, can you believe it? And then like. 0:56:03.480 --> 0:56:06.600 Obviously all the evidence worked out, but so yeah, he 0:56:06.680 --> 0:56:09.080 was like a smart guy that was able to do anything. 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:11.279 And then all the doctors when he was released were like, 0:56:11.480 --> 0:56:14.840 do he should not live with his mother? Like please, don't, 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:17.399 that shouldn't happen. But he was released to his mother 0:56:18.480 --> 0:56:19.960 and he hates her, she abused him. 0:56:20.040 --> 0:56:20.320 Whatever. 0:56:20.520 --> 0:56:23.200 So he starts working at the Department of Transportation in 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:28.000 nineteen seventy one, and then during this time he gets 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:30.719 hit by a car and his arm was super fucked up. 0:56:30.760 --> 0:56:34.000 So he won a fifteen thousand dollars settlement, and he 0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:38.120 decided to follow his passions instead of work, and his 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:41.719 passions were picking up hitchhikers. And what is an interesting 0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:45.319 fact is he picked up one hundred and fifty hitchhikers 0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:46.680 before killing anybody. 0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:51.120 Wow, And yeah, he would just pick them up and 0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:54.080 what and drive them to drive them places? Yeah, well 0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:57.120 he honestly, somebody's so smart and calculated like that. He 0:56:57.200 --> 0:57:00.359 was probably like learning how how do you lose someone 0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:02.160 into your car? How do you make someone feel safe, 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:04.160 how do you like keep the conversation going so that 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:06.480 nobody can run, and like how far do you have 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:08.600 to drive before you're like in a rural area where 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:09.560 they can't go anywhere. 0:57:09.600 --> 0:57:12.000 I don't know, Maybe do I sound like a serial killer? 0:57:12.040 --> 0:57:14.600 I'm like no, But this is what's scary, is like 0:57:14.920 --> 0:57:18.920 you don't you just don't like all of this was 0:57:19.000 --> 0:57:20.880 practiced to murder, Like you don't even know how many 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:22.320 kiers are out there practicing. 0:57:22.400 --> 0:57:24.520 It's like they say, get ten thousand hours. He was 0:57:24.560 --> 0:57:25.680 getting ten thousand hours. 0:57:25.680 --> 0:57:26.000 He was. 0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:29.560 And he focused on college students in Santa Cruz because 0:57:29.600 --> 0:57:32.560 his mom worked there as an administrative assistant, and so 0:57:33.280 --> 0:57:35.600 there was also another there was like a few killers 0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:40.080 active in that area during the time. He was dubbed 0:57:40.080 --> 0:57:42.520 the co ed killer, but there were a couple other 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:43.760 killers in that area. 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:47.240 California has had so many fucking serial killers it's it's 0:57:47.280 --> 0:57:48.480 like insane. 0:57:48.080 --> 0:57:51.120 And so, and hitchhiking was dangerous and so then what 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.320 they said was don't hitchhike. 0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:55.280 You know, I'll the PSA, don't hitchhike. 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:59.160 Don't hitchhike unless someone has a college parking stick or 0:57:59.200 --> 0:58:02.160 like a college authorization sticker, because so you know they 0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:03.120 work at the college. 0:58:03.280 --> 0:58:07.000 He had one of those stickers wow from his mom. Wowow. 0:58:07.440 --> 0:58:12.000 So they like all the messaging to all these students 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:14.360 was you can trust someone with the school sticker and 0:58:14.400 --> 0:58:17.400 it actually gave him like an easier way. 0:58:17.280 --> 0:58:21.439 To pick up victim. So that is pretty wild. 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:23.640 But yeah, and then I don't know if he stuck 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:26.600 to the students because. 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:27.240 His mom worked there, that's what he said. 0:58:27.240 --> 0:58:29.800 And they said he picked his mom's favorite students or whatnot, 0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:32.000 but I think it had to do with women education. 0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:34.480 He just, yeah, it is wild. 0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:38.920 So in May of nineteen seventy two, he picks up 0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:44.120 two Fresno State students, Marianne Pesche and Anita Lukeza, and 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:47.280 they never made it to their next destination. A female 0:58:47.320 --> 0:58:49.840 head was discovered in the woods in Santa Cruz and 0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:54.400 it was identified as Pechet, but luke aza remains have 0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:57.000 never been found and the head was found in August 0:58:57.040 --> 0:58:59.640 of nineteen seventy two, so it took a few months 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:00.479 to find this head. 0:59:00.720 --> 0:59:03.880 Oh my god. Yeah, he was really into decapitating. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:09.040 He said he loved decapitating because it's a trophy and 0:59:09.320 --> 0:59:12.640 it is everything, Like, you can't your body doesn't work 0:59:12.680 --> 0:59:13.360 without the head. 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:14.520 Right, It's a control center. 0:59:14.720 --> 0:59:16.880 Yeah, and he liked that it had like a mouth 0:59:17.920 --> 0:59:20.440 and ears, like he just said, it had everything. 0:59:21.280 --> 0:59:25.040 So that's why he liked having heads, but he would keep. 0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:26.840 Them or like put keep them in the woods so 0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:28.920 he could get like that that's where they would he would. 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:33.960 So he he orally raped them after he decapitated. 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.640 Okay. And he would also like fuck around with the bodies. 0:59:36.680 --> 0:59:39.640 So he would like kill people, drag the bodies back 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:41.640 to his room where he lived with his mom, hide 0:59:41.680 --> 0:59:43.320 them in the closet, and when she went to work, 0:59:43.320 --> 0:59:46.680 would like fuck around with them. Okay, So he was 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.760 maybe this is where SVU got some of their inspiration, 0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:53.520 but he was definitely there's like actually a specific word 0:59:53.680 --> 0:59:54.800 for oral rape. 0:59:54.840 --> 0:59:58.560 There's like a word that Wikipedia gave me. 0:59:58.680 --> 1:00:03.600 But I wasn't about to lo I'm tapped out with words, Hannah, 1:00:03.600 --> 1:00:04.320 did you look it up? 1:00:04.360 --> 1:00:07.080 What is it? I haven't. It's spelled I r r 1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:12.280 U M A TiO ere you matio. Okay, not a 1:00:12.280 --> 1:00:13.760 word we need to keep. No. 1:00:13.800 --> 1:00:16.720 No, so that doesn't need to take up space in 1:00:16.800 --> 1:00:17.600 anyone's brain. 1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:17.960 No. 1:00:18.840 --> 1:00:21.160 And he a cop actually pulled him over for a 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:23.320 broken tail light while the two bodies were in his 1:00:23.400 --> 1:00:25.000 car and didn't detect a thing. 1:00:25.120 --> 1:00:27.640 Oh my god, that happened so much. It's like, oh, 1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:30.000 and I'm sure he got off on that. 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:33.640 Yeah, So after he killed them, like I said, he 1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:36.240 brought the back to the apartment, removed heads and hands, 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:38.880 engaged in sexual activity with their corpses. 1:00:41.000 --> 1:00:43.120 So that's pretty wild, tough stuff. 1:00:43.320 --> 1:00:47.440 So in September nineteen seventy two, so you know, not 1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:50.080 even a month after the head was found, he picked 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:53.680 up a fifteen year old I go coup. This is 1:00:53.720 --> 1:00:56.040 the thing I hate debating, like what victims did or 1:00:56.080 --> 1:00:59.120 didn't do, because it's like they shouldn't be dead. But 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:02.920 like some people say, she missed the bus to her 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:06.200 dance class and decided to hitchhike, and then some places 1:01:06.280 --> 1:01:08.320 I read were it's just like she decided to hitchhike 1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:10.240 because she didn't want to wait for the bus. And 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:12.760 it sucks that those things matter for our judgments, like 1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:15.520 she should be alive. She's a child, right, So I 1:01:15.640 --> 1:01:20.480 don't like talking about those distinctions. But after killing Aiko 1:01:20.720 --> 1:01:22.520 and putting her in the trunk, he went to a 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:26.000 bar and had drink drinks and in the parking lot 1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:28.680 of the bar afterwards open the trunk to admire the body, 1:01:28.800 --> 1:01:33.080 like in full open, and then drove home. So so casual, 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:36.720 this isn't even like big event, like he has a 1:01:36.760 --> 1:01:38.560 dead body and that's confidence. 1:01:38.880 --> 1:01:40.080 I don't know if it's his smartness. 1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:42.440 I don't know what it is, but like, yeah, just 1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:45.720 chill having drinks while there's a dead body in his trunk. 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:46.680 It's so fucked up. 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:50.880 So January seventy three, he picked up Cindy Shawl and 1:01:50.920 --> 1:01:53.760 he shot and killed her again, brought him into the 1:01:53.840 --> 1:01:56.760 room when the mom was at home, dismembered the body. 1:01:57.040 --> 1:01:59.400 He also threw body parts in the ocean, and so 1:01:59.560 --> 1:02:01.560 body parts we're constantly being washed up. 1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:04.120 So that's another thing in this town. Like once in 1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:06.120 a while, like a body part would just wash up. 1:02:06.240 --> 1:02:07.280 Good. Yeah. 1:02:07.360 --> 1:02:09.080 I was just gonna say, this is just interesting too 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:11.400 that he's shooting them like so many other of these 1:02:11.480 --> 1:02:15.080 killers like stab them or like do horrible like like. 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:15.880 But he does. 1:02:15.920 --> 1:02:18.800 The thing is like he does, like he explains later 1:02:18.840 --> 1:02:21.680 he stabbed and strangled peschet. 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:23.880 Oh okay, sorry, I thought you because he shot his 1:02:23.920 --> 1:02:25.360 grandparents and then he shot this one woman. 1:02:25.400 --> 1:02:27.040 So I was like, oh, it's interesting that he's shooting them. 1:02:27.080 --> 1:02:29.080 So it's like he's getting the death over with quickly 1:02:29.400 --> 1:02:31.240 so that he could just like mess with the body. 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:34.720 Yeah, he definitely has way MOREMS than the night Stalker, 1:02:34.840 --> 1:02:36.439 but it is a way of like it's a little 1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:37.800 random in terms of stabbing. 1:02:37.960 --> 1:02:39.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, shooting. Yeah. 1:02:39.480 --> 1:02:41.320 And he had multiple guns, so he had like a 1:02:41.360 --> 1:02:44.160 twenty two and a forty four, Like he had a 1:02:44.240 --> 1:02:44.960 few you could. 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:48.320 Say, any numbers. I don't know anything about guns. He's 1:02:48.320 --> 1:02:52.080 got a twelve fifty. Well, because I just remember that. 1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:55.400 Because when the cops did eventually like show up to 1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:59.160 investigate some stuff, he was able to ask leading questions 1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:01.320 to figure out what kind of a gun they were looking. 1:03:01.080 --> 1:03:03.400 For to nowhere his friends were to. 1:03:03.440 --> 1:03:06.000 Like help lead them where they didn't want them to go. 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:08.480 But they did find a big gun in his closet. 1:03:08.880 --> 1:03:11.040 And but next to it was a box of trophies 1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:13.600 of like body parts and purses, id's and shit. 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:15.600 Not body parts I would smell. 1:03:15.360 --> 1:03:18.760 But like it had persons and IDs and like different trophies. 1:03:18.880 --> 1:03:22.040 They didn't even open the box. It's just tough. 1:03:22.040 --> 1:03:24.160 And this this kind of reminds me of Stabler, where 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:27.200 it's like you're you know, you can't keep your personal. 1:03:26.800 --> 1:03:29.120 In it, like Stabler wanted to solve it. 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:31.240 The crime is so bad, and here they didn't want 1:03:31.280 --> 1:03:32.680 their friend who's obsessed with them. 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:35.360 I mean he was a cop groupie. Yeah, and that 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:36.000 could just see it. 1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:40.000 Yeah, like you know when people are complimenting you and 1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:44.080 you just can't even. I mean, it's humiliating. So he 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:49.360 buried Cindy's head in her mother's backyard, so body parts 1:03:49.400 --> 1:03:49.920 in the ocean. 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:54.320 It I mean, it's like he's just a it's just gross. 1:03:54.520 --> 1:03:58.520 It's like gross and vile and really sad. 1:03:59.280 --> 1:03:59.920 February FI. 1:04:00.360 --> 1:04:03.480 So he's not even taking that much time between the kills. 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:07.720 He used like I mentioned a campus parking sticker that 1:04:07.840 --> 1:04:10.920 his mother gave him. To facilitate a double murder. He 1:04:11.040 --> 1:04:15.000 offered to drive two students, Rosalind Thorpe and Alice lou 1:04:15.360 --> 1:04:18.360 and he shot them, drove past campus security gates with 1:04:18.400 --> 1:04:23.120 the dead women in his car. I know, it's really wild. 1:04:23.760 --> 1:04:27.320 He then decapitated them, removed bullets, and spread the remains 1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:30.080 all over town. And in March, some of their remains 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:34.160 were discovered by hikers in this in San Mateo County. 1:04:35.480 --> 1:04:39.200 So you know, I guess if you want to find 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:42.920 if a body go hiking, I would say that. I 1:04:42.920 --> 1:04:45.760 mean any time I drive by woods, especially like Pennsylvania, 1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:48.000 so woody, Like any road trip with woods. 1:04:47.680 --> 1:04:49.280 I'm like, I want to know how many dead bodies 1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:49.840 are in that wood? 1:04:49.960 --> 1:04:50.160 Oh. 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:53.480 I once drove through the park in DC when Chandra 1:04:53.560 --> 1:04:56.680 Levy was missing that she was eventually found in what 1:04:56.880 --> 1:04:58.640 I drove through it and we were like, isn't it 1:04:58.680 --> 1:05:00.480 crazy that she's like missing? Like where do you think 1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:01.840 she is? And then like she was found like a 1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:04.880 mile away in this park. Yeah, and like, yeah, a 1:05:05.000 --> 1:05:07.680 very wooded park, but yeah, Like so what you're saying, like, yeah, 1:05:07.680 --> 1:05:09.800 when you I totally do that where I see woods that. 1:05:09.800 --> 1:05:11.640 I'm like, I wonder how many did bodies are in there? 1:05:11.800 --> 1:05:12.480 It's scary. 1:05:13.960 --> 1:05:17.160 So like, at the same time of his murders, there 1:05:17.200 --> 1:05:20.920 are two other serial killers, so John Linley Frazier and 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:24.720 Herbert Mullins are also killing in Santa Cruz. So it 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:28.480 was dubbed the murder capital of the World lol. And 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:31.400 then his crime specifically, I said this, but the co 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:35.720 Ed killer April nineteen seventy three, on Good Friday, he 1:05:35.840 --> 1:05:38.120 went to his mother's home and attacked her after she 1:05:38.200 --> 1:05:38.800 fell asleep. 1:05:39.280 --> 1:05:40.160 And in a. 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:42.400 Lot of the interviews I was watching and like he 1:05:42.440 --> 1:05:44.720 would cry and be like I knew I was going 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:47.959 to kill her two weeks before I did, Like, because 1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:49.040 she had already fallen asleep. 1:05:49.080 --> 1:05:51.280 It wasn't like they had a fight that precipitated it, right, 1:05:51.320 --> 1:05:52.400 It was like he went over there. 1:05:52.320 --> 1:05:54.360 Would fight, But I think they always fall I don't 1:05:54.440 --> 1:05:57.120 think they had a good relationship, Like I just think 1:05:57.520 --> 1:06:02.120 she hated him and was an alcoholic and he had 1:06:02.160 --> 1:06:06.160 a lot of mommy issues. She's but I you know, obviously, 1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:08.600 I don't like when anyone blames a woman for anything. 1:06:08.720 --> 1:06:10.960 Yeah, of their own actions. She still didn't deserve to 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:12.880 be killed, but she maybe wasn't a great but yeah, 1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:13.320 he would cry. 1:06:13.360 --> 1:06:15.000 He'd be like, oh I saw this person and I 1:06:15.080 --> 1:06:17.360 knew I would have to kill them. And then basically 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:19.920 he picked up two hitchhiker This is like through like 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:21.520 his voice. So we also don't know if he's a 1:06:21.520 --> 1:06:22.520 fucking liar too. 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:24.080 I don't get that vibe. 1:06:24.120 --> 1:06:25.840 But like, I'm not a pro, and I guess these 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:29.920 profilers the FBI didn't, I mean, they've used his stuff. 1:06:30.600 --> 1:06:33.680 But he said, like he picked up two girls and 1:06:34.200 --> 1:06:37.040 drove around and took them to their destination, and he 1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:41.320 was like, I need to kill my mom. Because all 1:06:41.400 --> 1:06:43.840 of my killings are just getting back at my mom, 1:06:44.080 --> 1:06:46.240 and I don't want more young people like these women 1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:48.560 to die. Like these women shouldn't be dead. They can 1:06:48.600 --> 1:06:53.040 be alive. If I just kill my mother, that will 1:06:53.160 --> 1:06:53.600 end at all. 1:06:53.920 --> 1:06:54.080 Yeah. 1:06:54.080 --> 1:06:56.360 It's like, what is the phrase cutting the head off 1:06:56.400 --> 1:06:59.040 of the dragon or something. There's like a like I'll 1:06:59.040 --> 1:06:59.680 cut the head off the. 1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:01.800 Snake or something like that. Yeah. 1:07:01.840 --> 1:07:05.840 And so he attacked her after she fell asleep. He 1:07:05.920 --> 1:07:07.680 hit her head in the hammer. Okay, so this is 1:07:07.720 --> 1:07:10.720 like one of the gross, my gross favorite parts of this. 1:07:10.840 --> 1:07:14.480 So there's a hammer, He cuts her throat, he decapitated her. 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.200 He cut off her hands, but then he removed her 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:19.520 larynx and put it down the garbage. 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:21.080 Disposed of her vocal cords. Basically, Yeah. 1:07:21.160 --> 1:07:24.960 Yeah, they talk about that in mind Hunter, and I 1:07:25.000 --> 1:07:27.360 think he says why right, Like, I think it's because 1:07:27.400 --> 1:07:29.040 he just wanted It's symbolic. 1:07:29.160 --> 1:07:30.360 Yeah, he handed her to shut up. 1:07:30.440 --> 1:07:32.880 Yeah, And I watched the video on YouTube. It was 1:07:32.920 --> 1:07:34.920 like they would go back and forth from Minehunter to 1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:39.280 the real tape wow, and just show and some of 1:07:39.320 --> 1:07:41.800 it was word for word, like they did a great job. 1:07:41.960 --> 1:07:44.200 And I watched one news clip with the actor on 1:07:44.400 --> 1:07:47.560 local LA news and like the news reporter was gonna 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:50.600 like suck his dick on on set, she was. 1:07:50.560 --> 1:07:51.400 Like, you're amazing. 1:07:51.440 --> 1:07:54.080 I could talk to you for hours and performance like 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:55.640 she was just all over this. 1:07:55.680 --> 1:07:58.720 Guy was good. But how about that, he's very good. 1:07:59.200 --> 1:08:01.760 I saw him at a and I could not focus. 1:08:01.800 --> 1:08:04.200 I was like so scared because he was there. 1:08:04.440 --> 1:08:06.840 Because I feel like I read that because they had 1:08:06.880 --> 1:08:09.160 to find a man that was so huge like him, 1:08:09.680 --> 1:08:12.919 and he looks like him and it. But the guy 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:15.120 was like only sort of like a newer actor and 1:08:15.160 --> 1:08:17.639 he was also a special ed teacher, right, Like that's. 1:08:17.479 --> 1:08:18.639 What I was reading about him. 1:08:18.760 --> 1:08:22.160 You have to be empathetic to your character or you 1:08:22.200 --> 1:08:24.360 can't play them like yeah, even if they're a bad person. 1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:28.200 So I am sure for a new actor, like that's 1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:30.439 so impressive to be able to pull off. 1:08:30.280 --> 1:08:31.280 A role like this. 1:08:32.040 --> 1:08:37.320 So but after he killed his mother, he and hit 1:08:37.400 --> 1:08:40.439 his mom's body parts, he called his mom's friend, Sally 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:43.160 Hallett and invited her over to the house for like 1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:46.000 dinner and hangout and then strangled her and killed her 1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:48.320 and hit her body in the closet. And it was 1:08:48.400 --> 1:08:52.120 to have a like a cover story to say the 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:53.559 mom and friend went on vacation. 1:08:54.560 --> 1:08:59.400 Oh my god, yeah, wow, yeah, I mean this guy 1:08:59.479 --> 1:09:01.559 is really it's fucked up. 1:09:02.000 --> 1:09:04.280 Like I guess, if we're going to have a killer, 1:09:04.360 --> 1:09:07.599 we want them to be dumb as dumb as possible, right, 1:09:07.720 --> 1:09:13.080 because this guy's thinking of everything. So Kemper actually fled 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:16.840 the area and he drove to Pueblo, Colorado, and on 1:09:16.920 --> 1:09:20.640 April twenty third, he called Santa Cruz police and confessed 1:09:20.680 --> 1:09:24.080 and they were like, wait, what, bigad, But he led 1:09:24.080 --> 1:09:26.080 them to all the evidence they needed to prove that 1:09:26.120 --> 1:09:30.040 he was the co ed killer. October nineteen seventy three, 1:09:30.200 --> 1:09:32.240 he was found guilty on all eight counts of first 1:09:32.240 --> 1:09:35.639 degree murder that he was charged with. The judge asked 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:37.920 him what his punishment should be, and he said, I 1:09:38.000 --> 1:09:40.479 should be tortured to death. So they gave him eight 1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:43.960 consecutive of life sentences and he's serving his time at 1:09:44.000 --> 1:09:47.559 California Facility in Vassaville. 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:49.600 Vacaville, Vaucaville. 1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:53.400 Also, this is personal to us, but he learned a 1:09:53.439 --> 1:09:55.960 lot of cop behavior from cop shows. 1:09:56.520 --> 1:09:57.879 So he learned. 1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.400 He was like, I learned, like you can't talk about 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:03.840 crimes too much with other cop because like or he 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:06.400 wanted to show up to the memorial services of course, 1:10:06.520 --> 1:10:09.120 but he's like I knew from cop shows they look 1:10:09.160 --> 1:10:12.360 for evidence the right. He loved watching cop shows and 1:10:12.439 --> 1:10:16.560 learning stuff. He also talks about how he's not impotent physically, 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:19.479 but he's emotionally impotent, Like he just wasn't able to 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:24.880 connect with anyone emotionally, and he killed his mother because 1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:27.719 he wanted everyone to know this happened because of how 1:10:27.720 --> 1:10:30.920 she raised her song. He talks about how he was 1:10:30.960 --> 1:10:33.880 scared of male and female relationships and he wanted to 1:10:33.920 --> 1:10:36.479 have sex and be social and he just couldn't. So yeah, 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:39.080 it's just like a classic Incel. Like that's another I 1:10:39.080 --> 1:10:41.559 don't want to call him smart because it's like you 1:10:41.720 --> 1:10:44.800 just put pussy on a pedestal and then instead of 1:10:44.840 --> 1:10:48.240 like working on your issues, you decided to like rape 1:10:48.280 --> 1:10:49.400 de capitated heads. 1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:50.280 So I don't know. 1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.080 Yeah, it's like weird. You get like brought back down 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:56.840 to reality. I'm like, wow, he is so smart and clever. 1:10:56.720 --> 1:10:59.439 And then it's like about the crimes and you're like ooh, yeah, 1:10:59.520 --> 1:11:02.960 oh what was These are just tidbits for okay, so 1:11:03.000 --> 1:11:06.519 what else was super interesting was when he was picking 1:11:06.560 --> 1:11:09.960 up other hitchhikers that he wasn't killing, they were all 1:11:10.000 --> 1:11:11.679 talking about this hitchhike killer. 1:11:12.200 --> 1:11:14.479 So he got off on it and he got what 1:11:14.520 --> 1:11:16.559 people thought. So it was just funny to him that 1:11:16.640 --> 1:11:19.599 these women were sitting in his car talking about who 1:11:19.680 --> 1:11:22.880 they think the hitchhiking the co ed killer is, but 1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:25.559 it was him and driving, which is like, which. 1:11:25.400 --> 1:11:27.120 Is like kind of what they're playing on in this 1:11:27.160 --> 1:11:29.400 episode of SVU when they're like, well, we've got this 1:11:29.600 --> 1:11:31.800 unsolved crime. Do you know anything about it? And he's 1:11:31.920 --> 1:11:34.040 getting off on the fact that he knows it's him. 1:11:34.439 --> 1:11:37.240 Yeah, so that was wild, and I'm sure that was 1:11:37.280 --> 1:11:40.960 an ego trip. And he also like I don't That's 1:11:40.960 --> 1:11:42.800 why I don't like these connections. They're like, why else 1:11:42.840 --> 1:11:45.160 did you keep the heads? And he said, well, my 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:49.000 father which chop the head off two pet chickens, and 1:11:49.040 --> 1:11:51.720 my mom made me eat them for dinner. And it's like, 1:11:51.760 --> 1:11:54.559 maybe that's weird and bad, but like, that's not the 1:11:54.600 --> 1:11:56.840 reason you chop people's heads off, right, because you had 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:57.920 to eat a couple of chicken heads. 1:11:58.000 --> 1:11:59.840 I'm sorry, that's like I'm not buying that. 1:12:02.000 --> 1:12:06.080 Oh, other like young behaviors he did, you know, besides 1:12:06.120 --> 1:12:09.240 like burning cats and shit, what are burying cats alive? 1:12:09.800 --> 1:12:13.280 Was he did not burn any cats? Okay, I just 1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:14.120 can't read, Okay. 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:17.400 He also would take his dad's bayonet and sneak out 1:12:17.400 --> 1:12:19.280 at night and spy on his teachers. 1:12:18.920 --> 1:12:19.800 Through the windows. 1:12:20.240 --> 1:12:22.400 And we've seen that with other killers, Like that's why 1:12:22.760 --> 1:12:25.480 the boys will be boys, or boys are just annoying 1:12:25.880 --> 1:12:28.439 or like, oh, come on, we don't want to ruin 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:31.400 a guy's life. Like all of these behaviors end up 1:12:31.640 --> 1:12:35.040 being yuff. Like we need to take violence against women 1:12:35.320 --> 1:12:38.599 so much more seriously, to not not only to help women, 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:41.719 but like to avoid these fucking killers like. 1:12:41.720 --> 1:12:45.760 Kill like harm of animals, peeping tom stuff. It definitely 1:12:46.000 --> 1:12:49.759 is baby steps to a killer. 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:54.080 Yeah. Oh, after he killed his grandparents, he called his 1:12:54.160 --> 1:12:56.200 mom asking what he should do, and she told him 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:58.880 to call the cops. So it's like, you hate your mom, 1:12:58.920 --> 1:13:01.240 but you're asking her what to do with these dead pairs. 1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:03.719 Like I guess he's fifteen, it's like what he probably 1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:04.759 just didn't know yet. 1:13:04.840 --> 1:13:06.400 And then they asked like why did you do it? 1:13:06.439 --> 1:13:08.320 And he's, uh, why did you kill your grandma? And 1:13:08.360 --> 1:13:10.120 he said, I just wanted to see what it felt like, 1:13:10.720 --> 1:13:14.760 which I think is classic socio behavior. Yeah, and then 1:13:14.920 --> 1:13:17.679 he's been in jail with Charles Manson and Hubert Mullen, 1:13:17.800 --> 1:13:21.160 and he hated Mullin though, because he was just like 1:13:21.200 --> 1:13:23.719 a killer, like an idiot, like in the show. 1:13:23.840 --> 1:13:27.280 You know, Huang was saying, he's not gonna fucking yeah, 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:29.120 he's not going to talk to this guy. He's like 1:13:29.200 --> 1:13:30.120 not good enough for him. 1:13:30.400 --> 1:13:35.160 Yeah, And so he was annoying this other, this Mullin guy. 1:13:35.280 --> 1:13:38.400 So Kemper just like threw water at him and like 1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:40.919 beat the and everyone was scared of Kemper. He's giant 1:13:41.240 --> 1:13:43.960 and he basically would like give him peanuts to behave. 1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:47.040 So then he started doing things for peanuts, and. 1:13:46.960 --> 1:13:49.719 So he like manipulated Mullen to be like a little 1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:52.839 pavlog peanut dogs, to do whatever he wanted and to behave. 1:13:53.439 --> 1:13:55.559 And again everyone loved him. He's a model in me. 1:13:55.880 --> 1:13:58.599 And then he's also like everyone was like hell yeah 1:13:58.600 --> 1:14:01.599 because this this Mullin guy talk over movies and stuff, 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:04.040 and they hated on much he talked, and Kemper got 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:07.400 him in shape with peanuts. But yeah, he's in gen pop, 1:14:07.479 --> 1:14:11.720 which is wild. He helps schedule appointments for the other inmates. 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:16.519 He makes ceramic cups like Seth Rogan, and he's a 1:14:16.520 --> 1:14:21.000 prolific reader of audio books and he has over five thousand. 1:14:20.680 --> 1:14:25.519 Hours audible dot com baby, and he. 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:30.680 Runs the prison program for audiobook recordings. But he had 1:14:30.680 --> 1:14:32.800 a stroke in twenty fifteen so he couldn't do it. 1:14:32.840 --> 1:14:35.040 And then in twenty sixteen he had his first behavior 1:14:35.120 --> 1:14:36.400 issue when he refused. 1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:36.880 To year in test. 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:40.000 But oh, and he also said that he didn't talk 1:14:40.040 --> 1:14:44.160 to the FBI to help them, but he wanted to 1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:47.240 help other people like him and encourage people with his 1:14:47.400 --> 1:14:50.040 rage and problems to not commit the crimes and that 1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:53.799 it's not worth it. And he wanted to be someone 1:14:53.800 --> 1:14:55.960 that they can trust to not kill because it's hard 1:14:56.000 --> 1:14:57.719 and it's hard to stop and it is a horrible 1:14:57.760 --> 1:14:59.680 thing and I keep thinking about it. It is like 1:14:59.720 --> 1:15:02.600 a disgusting thing to take lives. So he was just 1:15:02.640 --> 1:15:06.439 trying to like help other wanna be killers maybe not 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:06.960 do it. 1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:09.679 Wow, So that's what he said, again, do we believe 1:15:09.680 --> 1:15:12.360 you know? I don't know. Now he could be totally lying. 1:15:12.400 --> 1:15:14.439 It's just you just don't hear killers talk like that. 1:15:14.920 --> 1:15:18.639 Yeah, and then he's been denied parole like ten times, 1:15:18.680 --> 1:15:20.400 and he's up again for it in twenty. 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:24.000 I cannot believe he's even eligible for parole. Oh yeah, constantly, 1:15:24.000 --> 1:15:24.880 and then he's been waived. 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:28.680 He has eight life sentences, but I guess not with 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:32.160 no chance of parole. All right, look, we got to 1:15:32.200 --> 1:15:33.920 go take a little breaky, and then we're going to 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:36.400 talk to our exciting guest. 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:47.680 I'm very excited for this guest, obviously. You know I'm 1:15:47.720 --> 1:15:50.480 extra excited when I get involved in the intro. Yeah, 1:15:50.640 --> 1:15:54.400 I would say a fan favorite, a world favorite, an icon, 1:15:54.560 --> 1:15:58.840 and a star. He's been in the giant Jurassic Park franchise. 1:15:59.400 --> 1:16:01.839 I've loved him in the HBO series Oz. 1:16:02.400 --> 1:16:04.679 I've been a huge fan of him and mister Robot, 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:06.479 and of course you all have been fans of this 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:09.799 Tony Award winner in his role as George Hwang in SVU. 1:16:10.280 --> 1:16:14.439 Guys, we did talk to the legend bead Wog. Oh 1:16:14.439 --> 1:16:16.400 my gosh, thank you so much for taking the time 1:16:16.439 --> 1:16:20.040 to talk to us. We're so excited to have you. Yeah, 1:16:20.080 --> 1:16:21.679 the listeners are going to lose their shit. 1:16:22.280 --> 1:16:22.479 Yeah. 1:16:22.520 --> 1:16:24.120 We wanted to just start out by letting you know 1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:26.120 that our fans are very very horny, and they are 1:16:26.160 --> 1:16:27.599 specifically very horny for you. 1:16:28.280 --> 1:16:32.200 Of course, why would did I not know that we put. 1:16:32.000 --> 1:16:35.200 We've put up polls before on like who's your favorite, 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:38.400 and like there's just a lot of Wang love, like 1:16:38.680 --> 1:16:39.520 just a lot. 1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:45.120 Outside of Olivia Benson. You might be the second beloved. 1:16:45.000 --> 1:16:48.439 Because everyone is no, no, no, listen, because there are people 1:16:48.520 --> 1:16:51.320 that hate Stabler and there are people that love Stabler, and. 1:16:52.240 --> 1:16:53.639 You know he splits the vote. 1:16:53.800 --> 1:16:58.000 Yes, so in terms of universal adoration, it's really like 1:16:58.080 --> 1:16:58.759 it is Benson. 1:16:58.800 --> 1:17:01.240 And then you are you talking? I mean really, I 1:17:01.280 --> 1:17:04.280 mean this is silly for me to get into it 1:17:04.320 --> 1:17:09.000 with you, but like, do you mean really? I'm just curious. 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:11.479 Are you talking about physically? Are you talking about the 1:17:11.479 --> 1:17:14.240 whole persona of the person? What do you mean physically? 1:17:14.280 --> 1:17:14.519 People? 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:17.439 I mean people literally are like I'm hot for Want, 1:17:17.760 --> 1:17:20.840 like I love him, Like yeah, so's it's. 1:17:20.680 --> 1:17:22.639 A physical thing. It's also I think your character. 1:17:23.000 --> 1:17:25.160 And then I don't know if this is a good 1:17:25.200 --> 1:17:30.120 thing because you know that like the process of the episodes. 1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:31.960 But I take what Huang says is fact. 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:36.320 Yeah, like I often like, actually, incest is not a 1:17:36.439 --> 1:17:38.080 legal if you're over the age of eighteen, and. 1:17:38.040 --> 1:17:39.640 I learned that from you. 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:43.479 Yeahong, and like the Pika where the boy was licking 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:45.400 the car, the let off the car, like I say 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:46.160 that constantly. 1:17:46.320 --> 1:17:48.360 Yeah, well, I mean, I mean that was one of 1:17:48.400 --> 1:17:50.559 the great things about it for me is the trust 1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:53.040 in being able to understand that whenever I had to 1:17:53.080 --> 1:17:55.720 say something or I was given something to say that 1:17:55.800 --> 1:17:59.040 I could I could trust that there was a research 1:17:59.160 --> 1:18:02.600 end fact based stuff that went into it. So I 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:05.520 didn't ever have to like question that this sounds really ridiculous, 1:18:05.920 --> 1:18:07.800 are you sure or anything like that. 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:12.360 It was. It was reliably well researched, so so that 1:18:12.479 --> 1:18:13.360 is true. Yeah. 1:18:14.040 --> 1:18:16.240 That might be where the love comes from too, because 1:18:16.360 --> 1:18:19.720 the officers, they you know, they'll shoot a person like 1:18:19.760 --> 1:18:22.400 something will happen, but you're always like you and tomorrow 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:24.040 Attuni are always there. 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:26.720 With facts, with facts to help the case. 1:18:27.000 --> 1:18:31.000 Yes, shadiness, yes, and then yes that's right. Yeah, I 1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:31.760 mean I do want to. 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:35.280 I mean, I just I don't know if this is appropriate, 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:37.760 what what what our what our game plan is for 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:41.280 this conversation, But I mean, I mean I am fascinated 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:44.639 in what it is that made him popular because I 1:18:44.720 --> 1:18:46.439 never felt it when I was doing it. 1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:48.160 I just thought, Oh, I'm going to say this, I'm 1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:48.680 going to say that. 1:18:48.760 --> 1:18:52.800 And then and then I realized that people were really 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:55.200 into him in a kind of big way, like you're 1:18:55.200 --> 1:18:58.240 talking about and I and I like dissecting maybe I'm 1:18:58.400 --> 1:18:59.880 like him in this way. I like trying to figure 1:18:59.880 --> 1:19:03.840 out why they actually feel that way because I'm just 1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:06.040 doing it and when I watch it, and I just 1:19:06.120 --> 1:19:09.040 watched this episode right to kind of and I haven't 1:19:09.040 --> 1:19:11.280 watched the show in a long time, and so it 1:19:11.320 --> 1:19:14.200 was really interesting to say, Oh, I see what it 1:19:14.320 --> 1:19:17.200 is that might be that people might be into. I mean, 1:19:17.439 --> 1:19:20.280 he started, he and he evolved over the years too, 1:19:20.280 --> 1:19:23.479 of course, but I'm interested in that why people are 1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:26.680 really into it. I think he was super confident about it. 1:19:26.760 --> 1:19:29.000 He never was like, oh, I'm not sure, you know. 1:19:29.040 --> 1:19:31.599 He was like, never like that, and he was always 1:19:31.760 --> 1:19:35.880 very like knowledge based. And also he had the thing 1:19:35.920 --> 1:19:38.960 that Olivia has, which is this kind of morality or 1:19:39.000 --> 1:19:42.400 this sense of what's right and you know, doing the 1:19:42.479 --> 1:19:45.360 right thing and doing this something for someone rather than 1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:47.479 just doing it because you're supposed to, you know, because 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:48.880 it's the law or something like that. 1:19:49.400 --> 1:19:52.439 I think what was your final episode or your final 1:19:52.439 --> 1:19:54.640 episode before you maybe came back for one time, was 1:19:54.680 --> 1:19:58.080 like you were administering a drug to someone that you 1:19:58.120 --> 1:20:00.280 weren't supposed to, but you knew that was the right 1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:02.760 thing to do, you know, So that's an exacting you 1:20:02.920 --> 1:20:03.160 like that. 1:20:03.240 --> 1:20:04.760 So I guess that really. 1:20:06.000 --> 1:20:08.920 Makes an impression on people, or people really believe that 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:11.960 in really respond to that, and I like that. 1:20:11.960 --> 1:20:15.439 That's very nice And the confidence is right on the 1:20:15.479 --> 1:20:19.519 money too, because they all hate psychologists for some reason. 1:20:19.720 --> 1:20:23.320 Like but you never that Hohong never like that didn't 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:25.080 bother him because he knew he was right. He was 1:20:25.120 --> 1:20:28.880 never intimidated by Stabler, who was like shoving people into cabinet. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:31.600 Yes, right, right, right, Because I think your character was 1:20:31.640 --> 1:20:35.400 like very early on the mental health bandwagon. Like before 1:20:35.479 --> 1:20:38.200 now everyone's like self care mental health. You know, now 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:41.080 it's more talked about, but you know, nineteen ninety nine, 1:20:41.080 --> 1:20:44.160 two thousand, when the show was starting out, your character 1:20:44.200 --> 1:20:47.200 had all these psychological insights and I think that's I mean, 1:20:47.240 --> 1:20:48.919 it's a very female fan base. 1:20:48.960 --> 1:20:51.840 And I think that's like what draws people to your character. 1:20:51.760 --> 1:20:55.240 And there is a real surge or a kind of 1:20:55.280 --> 1:20:59.799 a trend of young female fans of the show who 1:21:00.280 --> 1:21:03.280 entered the field that I hear about all the time, 1:21:03.320 --> 1:21:05.840 that that a young woman will say I watched the 1:21:05.880 --> 1:21:07.920 show and that's what I decided to do with my 1:21:08.000 --> 1:21:11.160 life because I was so taken with the vocation. And 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:15.320 it's never been a man that said this to me. 1:21:16.080 --> 1:21:17.960 I can't recall a man has ever said it to me. 1:21:18.360 --> 1:21:20.559 I think it's almost always a young woman who is 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.799 just it just opened their heart in a way or something, 1:21:24.880 --> 1:21:25.960 and that's nice, so great. 1:21:26.080 --> 1:21:28.559 Yeah, can we talk a little bit about like your history, 1:21:28.640 --> 1:21:30.560 like how you got into it, so, like you originally 1:21:30.600 --> 1:21:33.080 were on just for like two episodes in season two. 1:21:33.280 --> 1:21:35.920 I think it was four maybe, Oh okay. 1:21:35.800 --> 1:21:37.680 I think originally they said we're going to try this 1:21:37.800 --> 1:21:40.520 out for four of singletons. 1:21:40.680 --> 1:21:42.559 From what we looked up for was when you became 1:21:42.560 --> 1:21:44.639 a regular and yeah, doing something. 1:21:45.000 --> 1:21:47.040 Yeah, I did you know they signed me up to 1:21:47.040 --> 1:21:47.439 do four. 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:49.439 Hey, we want to try this new character out and 1:21:49.479 --> 1:21:52.400 it's for and and Neil Bhaer had just come into 1:21:52.439 --> 1:21:54.599 the show, and Neil Baar was was hell bent to 1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:57.959 bring a medical perspective to the show, being a doctor himself, 1:21:58.200 --> 1:22:01.160 and thinking that the medical encycle logical perspective, it's going 1:22:01.200 --> 1:22:03.519 to be valuable to this particular show, and he was right. 1:22:03.600 --> 1:22:07.720 I think I feel like that's something that's not as 1:22:07.760 --> 1:22:09.519 present in the show as it used to be. And 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:13.439 while I was there, it felt really like an part 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:14.960 of the identity of the show for at the time 1:22:14.960 --> 1:22:15.559 that I was there. 1:22:15.680 --> 1:22:17.559 Yeah, you're right, I didn't realize that they kind of 1:22:17.600 --> 1:22:19.120 have moved away from that a little bit. 1:22:19.280 --> 1:22:21.719 Yeah, And it's interesting because you know, you start out 1:22:22.600 --> 1:22:24.920 still the opening of the show is still exactly the 1:22:24.960 --> 1:22:28.200 same as it ever was if unless I'm wrong, and 1:22:28.760 --> 1:22:31.240 that is saying, you know what, these are like really 1:22:31.280 --> 1:22:35.559 intense people and they did they did this terrible things 1:22:35.600 --> 1:22:38.080 and so what goes hand in hand with that is 1:22:38.120 --> 1:22:42.880 why how or you know all of that and so 1:22:42.880 --> 1:22:45.960 so Neil was very keen and kind of creating that 1:22:46.400 --> 1:22:50.320 character in that perspective, and they did continue on with it, 1:22:50.400 --> 1:22:52.639 and they picked up the option and I was given 1:22:52.640 --> 1:22:53.200 a contract. 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:56.439 And that is that the answer to the question that 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:57.000 you're asked. 1:22:56.960 --> 1:22:58.840 Yeah, we just I was sort of just wondering if, like, 1:22:59.040 --> 1:23:00.720 did you know that you were going to be on 1:23:00.800 --> 1:23:02.760 for or did you know, like that it was sort 1:23:02.800 --> 1:23:04.679 of like a trial run for a longer part. 1:23:04.760 --> 1:23:07.800 Yes, and so okay, and I knew was a trial 1:23:07.920 --> 1:23:09.000 run for a longer part. 1:23:09.120 --> 1:23:11.559 And I my son had just been born, and I 1:23:11.600 --> 1:23:13.240 didn't want to leave New York. And I felt I 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:15.160 was the luckiest thing ever if I were to be 1:23:15.200 --> 1:23:18.160 able to ask to be stay, if I didn't you know, 1:23:18.240 --> 1:23:22.240 blow it or whatever. And so I I was. It 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:24.639 was the luckiest thing that could ever happen to a person. Actually, 1:23:25.080 --> 1:23:28.559 I was able to get the closest thing to what 1:23:28.640 --> 1:23:30.639 you call what is a normal job. 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:31.800 You know, it was like, it's not like. 1:23:31.760 --> 1:23:34.479 A real and normal job, nine to five job, And 1:23:35.160 --> 1:23:37.080 as an actor, that's just something that doesn't happen. And 1:23:37.760 --> 1:23:40.679 particularly now with in cable and all of that stuff, 1:23:41.000 --> 1:23:43.599 there's no such thing as a twenty three episode season, 1:23:44.520 --> 1:23:48.560 and that is what ensures a real kind of steadiness 1:23:48.600 --> 1:23:52.200 that is really great when you're you know, starting family 1:23:52.240 --> 1:23:55.720 and stuff. And so that was really fortunate for me, 1:23:55.760 --> 1:23:59.040 and I'm extremely grateful to everybody that made that happen. 1:23:59.240 --> 1:24:02.479 Of course because of the historic the role that it 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:03.960 plays in my family's history. 1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:06.880 And then like along with starting a family, like were 1:24:06.880 --> 1:24:09.800 you able to also sort of stay in the Broadway 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:13.120 like flow of things, since the show could kind of maybe. 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:15.040 I don't know if they like work around your schedule 1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:15.760 or you don't do. 1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:17.120 Nights or yes and no. 1:24:17.240 --> 1:24:19.920 I mean, I believe I was doing a Broadway show 1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:21.680 in two thousand and four, and I was already on 1:24:21.680 --> 1:24:24.439 the show in two thousand and two, wasn't I It 1:24:24.479 --> 1:24:26.280 was two thousand and two, I think, And so I 1:24:26.320 --> 1:24:27.080 did I know that. 1:24:27.640 --> 1:24:29.120 If I look at my resume and look. 1:24:29.040 --> 1:24:31.639 At my own biography, I see, Oh, I did this 1:24:31.680 --> 1:24:33.880 Broadway show in two thousand and three slash two thousand 1:24:33.880 --> 1:24:36.479 and four, So there was some reason that I was 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:39.800 able to do that. Eventually, when I got deeper into 1:24:39.880 --> 1:24:45.360 the show, I was able to wangle out of them 1:24:45.439 --> 1:24:47.640 an ability to do a play like I did a 1:24:47.680 --> 1:24:53.760 play at least once in the mid auts. And that 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:57.559 meant that they had to give me what they'd call 1:24:57.640 --> 1:25:00.880 it a herd out, which is that half an hour 1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:02.960 before the show, I'd have to be at the theater 1:25:03.360 --> 1:25:06.000 at a certain part of the town, and they'd have 1:25:06.040 --> 1:25:08.000 to shoot me out or make sure that I got out, 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:11.040 which they really don't like doing. But they I'd been 1:25:11.160 --> 1:25:13.519 there long enough, I think then, and I think they 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:16.160 knew that my part was not like the biggest part 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:18.240 in the show, and that they could they we had 1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:20.479 been able to work around things up until that point, 1:25:20.479 --> 1:25:23.280 so they allowed me to do it. Another thing I'm 1:25:23.320 --> 1:25:26.679 super grateful for because it really kept my life much 1:25:26.680 --> 1:25:29.559 more interesting and I was able to kind of do 1:25:29.720 --> 1:25:33.559 the things that really work for me while I was 1:25:33.600 --> 1:25:35.160 doing this other thing that did kind of feel like 1:25:35.160 --> 1:25:38.439 a little bit more like a job, and so that 1:25:38.560 --> 1:25:41.479 was great for me. Well, there's also you know, it's 1:25:41.479 --> 1:25:44.120 shot in almost like a school year. You have like 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:47.400 a summer off, and so there are lots of things. 1:25:47.600 --> 1:25:49.439 I did lots of shows and plays during the time 1:25:49.439 --> 1:25:52.000 that I was on the show because I could do 1:25:52.040 --> 1:25:55.960 a regional production of a play somewhere or musical somewhere 1:25:55.960 --> 1:25:59.320 in the country elsewhere in the country during the time. 1:25:59.360 --> 1:26:01.880 That was the hiatus amazing. 1:26:02.560 --> 1:26:06.679 Well, so we talked to Margaret Choe a few months 1:26:06.760 --> 1:26:10.320 ago and she said, we were like, if you were 1:26:10.360 --> 1:26:12.559 to come back as a different character, who would it be. 1:26:12.760 --> 1:26:16.800 And she said Huang's sister, oh, and that you do 1:26:16.880 --> 1:26:19.080 have a sister and she would love to play your sister. 1:26:19.240 --> 1:26:19.400 Oh. 1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:23.440 I love it any chance you two guys would come back. 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:26.400 And yeah, what are the chances of Huang's return? And 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:29.519 then we have to get Chow to be your sister. 1:26:30.760 --> 1:26:34.519 You know, there's no there I have no barrier to 1:26:34.640 --> 1:26:36.760 coming back at all. I mean there's no I mean 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:39.920 I wouldn't want to come back in a kind of 1:26:40.880 --> 1:26:44.040 super binding way, you know, like I I love the 1:26:44.040 --> 1:26:46.280 way it is now when when Warren Light feels like 1:26:46.600 --> 1:26:48.400 there's a there's an opening or there's a reason, and 1:26:49.120 --> 1:26:50.920 then then he'll have me come back. 1:26:50.960 --> 1:26:53.040 And I've come back maybe twice, I think. 1:26:53.400 --> 1:26:55.639 And there was another opportunity that just kind of came 1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:58.120 and went because of COVID. It was really impossible to 1:26:58.240 --> 1:27:01.920 kind of just bring somebody in. And you know, you 1:27:02.000 --> 1:27:05.680 have so much has to go into bringing actors in 1:27:05.720 --> 1:27:09.519 and off on and off a show now, or has 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:12.120 been in the last few months, that a lot more 1:27:12.160 --> 1:27:14.280 preparation has to go into it. They can't just kind 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:16.080 of decide, oh, let's do it two weeks from now, 1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:18.479 let's make sure that we have a hung scene going on. 1:27:19.120 --> 1:27:20.720 They can't do it as easily as they used to 1:27:20.760 --> 1:27:23.920 do so, but the time will come around again when 1:27:24.560 --> 1:27:28.000 that that is able to happen, and of course I 1:27:28.000 --> 1:27:28.479 would do it. 1:27:28.800 --> 1:27:30.800 Of course I would do especially if Margaret was going 1:27:30.800 --> 1:27:31.760 to be my sister. 1:27:31.560 --> 1:27:34.120 And they need to do Margaret as a serial killer 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:37.599 because she said she wanted to play serial who's also yeah, 1:27:37.600 --> 1:27:40.000 you can get brought back because you have double insight, yeah, 1:27:40.479 --> 1:27:42.120 your psychological background, and. 1:27:42.080 --> 1:27:44.320 Then okay, that's okay. 1:27:44.720 --> 1:27:46.960 Yeah, I'm just working on a specscript. 1:27:47.080 --> 1:27:52.120 Yeah, I'm into it. I would do anything with Margaret ever, ever, ever, ever. 1:27:52.439 --> 1:27:54.360 Yeah, She's fantastic. 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.759 Absolutely, So we both listened to your list culture resta 1:27:58.040 --> 1:28:01.639 you did Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm a big fan 1:28:01.720 --> 1:28:02.440 of Bowen. 1:28:02.200 --> 1:28:04.000 And Mattson all the time. 1:28:04.479 --> 1:28:08.040 While I'm getting my steps in, and you did mention 1:28:08.840 --> 1:28:12.920 that you wish there was like more about your character, 1:28:13.000 --> 1:28:15.200 and we knew more and there was more background and 1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:18.360 like depths shown throughout the years, and I was wondering 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:21.639 if you had created any of that that you wish 1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:24.880 was shown, or like what background you had for the character. 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:25.840 I didn't. 1:28:26.040 --> 1:28:29.400 Actually, I might more now that I'm a different I 1:28:29.479 --> 1:28:32.120 mean I've evolved my process or whatever. 1:28:32.479 --> 1:28:33.559 I feel like I might. 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:36.960 I might be different now, But you know, I think 1:28:37.000 --> 1:28:39.960 I was kind of aware of the show that I 1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:41.880 was on, like that, this is the show that I'm on, 1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:45.400 and this is what is these are the parameters of 1:28:45.439 --> 1:28:49.920 the show. And ultimately I did kind of whine about 1:28:49.920 --> 1:28:53.400 it to myself and to my inner circle about you know, 1:28:53.400 --> 1:28:56.519 about it it kind of having an identity that was 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:59.960 very consistent, which I think the fans love and everybody loves. 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:03.599 But for me, it wasn't super stimulating. And as you 1:29:03.760 --> 1:29:06.280 probably can tell, I'm extremely grateful for it, and I 1:29:06.320 --> 1:29:08.599 don't mean to be whiny about it, but I did 1:29:08.640 --> 1:29:11.840 feel as an actor, as a creative person, it didn't 1:29:11.920 --> 1:29:16.200 challenge me that much, and so I was I tended 1:29:16.200 --> 1:29:18.600 to be kind of very neutral about it, you know. 1:29:18.640 --> 1:29:19.960 I was like, well, you know, this is what I'm 1:29:19.960 --> 1:29:22.320 doing right now, and it's very very it is a 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:27.479 very specific set of things that I'm achieving by doing it, 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:29.440 and then I'm really happy. 1:29:29.160 --> 1:29:30.280 With that, and that's perfectly good. 1:29:30.600 --> 1:29:34.759 But so therefore, to make a short story long, I 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:38.120 felt like there wasn't a lot of room for it, 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:40.479 and I also I didn't want to make things up 1:29:40.520 --> 1:29:44.879 that were not going to be right. And the perfect 1:29:44.920 --> 1:29:47.360 example of this is like the eleventh hour, when he 1:29:47.439 --> 1:29:51.280 came out. I was like, oh, I wasn't. Nobody we 1:29:51.280 --> 1:29:53.360 didn't talk about this, like where did that come from? 1:29:53.360 --> 1:29:55.559 And there was a there was a sense, and that 1:29:55.640 --> 1:29:58.800 was when I kind of went, oh, you guys, you know, 1:29:58.880 --> 1:30:02.680 I felt kind of like that was I don't know 1:30:02.680 --> 1:30:03.839 how to describe it. 1:30:03.840 --> 1:30:06.200 It wasn't a detail that felt that organic to me. 1:30:07.120 --> 1:30:09.559 I mean, I and at the same time, I'm all 1:30:09.760 --> 1:30:11.360 all for the what's the difference. 1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:12.479 It doesn't matter at all. 1:30:12.520 --> 1:30:15.960 I mean, gay people are are all different kinds of people, 1:30:15.960 --> 1:30:17.760 and this person could certainly be a gay person. 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:19.439 There's no reason for them not to be. 1:30:19.479 --> 1:30:22.759 But the way that I had thought in my mind 1:30:22.840 --> 1:30:25.799 he was, and that from some some very minor comments 1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:28.280 throughout about dating girls or something like that. 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:31.559 I didn't didn't. I wasn't there with that. It wasn't on. 1:30:31.800 --> 1:30:34.479 It was a surprise to me, and it was a 1:30:34.479 --> 1:30:39.320 surprise that kind of served that particular storyline. It was like, 1:30:39.360 --> 1:30:41.880 it was kind of convenient. I think, yeah, but that 1:30:42.040 --> 1:30:43.600 is the kind of show that I was on. That 1:30:43.680 --> 1:30:45.720 was the kind of show that at that moment in time, 1:30:45.880 --> 1:30:48.160 very late in the game, they could do that and 1:30:48.200 --> 1:30:51.400 it was okay. But they did do that because nothing 1:30:51.439 --> 1:30:54.599 else was ever discussed, Like we they it was able 1:30:54.680 --> 1:30:57.920 to do that because all the details were left out 1:30:57.960 --> 1:31:01.000 prior to that, So then the opportun unities are greater. 1:31:01.120 --> 1:31:03.840 And they left their options open in some ways by 1:31:03.920 --> 1:31:06.599 not being more specific about who he was or where 1:31:06.600 --> 1:31:07.320 he came from. 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:10.800 Yeah, and I feel like now, if your character was 1:31:10.840 --> 1:31:13.879 like that was now or in a more recent season, 1:31:14.520 --> 1:31:16.160 I think they would have gotten more into it. They 1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:19.719 seem to now be getting more into like one character's 1:31:19.760 --> 1:31:22.640 gambling addiction, one character's issue with this, you know, like 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:25.320 they definitely get more into the personal lives of the characters. 1:31:25.320 --> 1:31:26.640 I feel like where at the beginning, it was like 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:28.400 you just saw a little bit of Stabler in Benson's 1:31:28.400 --> 1:31:29.720 personal life, but everyone. 1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:31.200 Else was sort of like just outside of that. 1:31:31.439 --> 1:31:34.360 Yes, that's right, and so I see what you're saying completely, 1:31:34.360 --> 1:31:36.439 because that was what the show was doing at that time. 1:31:36.680 --> 1:31:38.080 Was like, you know, and I. 1:31:38.000 --> 1:31:40.479 Think I felt like, oh, I want that, I want 1:31:40.640 --> 1:31:43.160 a little bit of personal about me there, And there 1:31:43.240 --> 1:31:47.400 was there are moments where there were quong heavy episodes, 1:31:47.920 --> 1:31:52.479 and yet it never felt to me like enough or 1:31:52.520 --> 1:31:54.200 it never felt like as much as it could be. 1:31:54.439 --> 1:31:56.479 But that's it. 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:58.680 I mean, I don't really, I don't have much more 1:31:58.680 --> 1:32:01.200 of a complaint about it than that. That's just that is, 1:32:01.240 --> 1:32:04.519 as I said before, the way that the identity of 1:32:04.560 --> 1:32:07.000 the show, and it would be dumb of me to 1:32:07.920 --> 1:32:10.880 buck against the identity of this bigger show that I 1:32:10.920 --> 1:32:14.200 am a part of by thinking other that it should 1:32:14.200 --> 1:32:15.519 be any other way than the way it was. 1:32:16.240 --> 1:32:18.519 Right. Another thing I keep saying, I've it's been in 1:32:18.560 --> 1:32:21.160 my head since the last Culture Lisa's episode. I keep going, 1:32:21.560 --> 1:32:24.479 we love a moral queen, just to nobody, over and 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:25.000 over again. 1:32:25.680 --> 1:32:26.719 That's exactly right. 1:32:26.840 --> 1:32:30.479 I mean, he they have I don't remember who said 1:32:30.520 --> 1:32:35.240 it it was bad, right, I don't know. Their phraseology 1:32:35.400 --> 1:32:38.280 is just fucking amazing. They're just great. 1:32:38.360 --> 1:32:41.080 Yeah, they have like their own lexicons, and. 1:32:41.040 --> 1:32:42.560 You know exactly what he's talking about when he says it, 1:32:42.600 --> 1:32:44.400 So it's not like some foreign language or anything like that. 1:32:44.800 --> 1:32:47.240 But it's it's not exactly how I would have put it. 1:32:47.360 --> 1:32:51.000 But that's exactly true, and it's true. She's the moral 1:32:51.080 --> 1:32:54.800 center and she you know, it's great. That is the 1:32:54.960 --> 1:32:59.000 engine that drives the show. I think his victims' rights 1:32:59.040 --> 1:33:02.960 and the under of victims' rights and what we're doing 1:33:03.040 --> 1:33:06.200 for these victims and how we're serving them as a 1:33:06.320 --> 1:33:07.760 community of professionals. 1:33:08.560 --> 1:33:09.800 I think that's an undercurrent and. 1:33:09.800 --> 1:33:13.880 The show that is perceivable to their average audience member 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:14.880 on some level. 1:33:15.479 --> 1:33:15.719 Yeah. 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:19.920 Peter Scanovino, who's a current detective, he said, the reason 1:33:20.160 --> 1:33:22.479 women love the show so much is because women are 1:33:22.479 --> 1:33:25.400 listened to, and that's like in it. 1:33:25.520 --> 1:33:26.880 Yeah, a rare thing. 1:33:26.960 --> 1:33:29.040 Yes, that's right. It's like porn for women. 1:33:29.640 --> 1:33:32.479 Yes, well yeah, And I think it's interesting what you 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:35.160 said before too, about how your character was also like yeah, 1:33:35.200 --> 1:33:38.280 more sensitive, listen to people and kind of got to that, 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:41.679 like whereas you had munch with conspiracy theories, iced tease, 1:33:41.720 --> 1:33:46.000 this hard ass Maloney's like, you know, toxic masculinity personified. 1:33:46.120 --> 1:33:47.280 So like your. 1:33:47.200 --> 1:33:51.360 Character is sort of like this, like other it's like 1:33:51.920 --> 1:33:53.360 another call into Olivia. 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:54.719 Yeah, oh yes. 1:33:54.800 --> 1:33:59.040 And of course the Olivia George relationship was the only 1:33:59.080 --> 1:34:02.120 relationship I had in the show, and so that was 1:34:02.240 --> 1:34:06.559 of great comfort to me actually, and of great you know, 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:09.559 I was really into that, and and we always made 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:11.440 jokes about it because there was hardly. 1:34:11.160 --> 1:34:13.480 Ever a moment when we were really. 1:34:13.320 --> 1:34:16.960 It happens on very specific occasions that our relationship is 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:21.200 even a little bit you know, dealt with or illuminated. 1:34:21.000 --> 1:34:22.960 And yet it really kind of carried me through the 1:34:23.000 --> 1:34:23.360 whole thing. 1:34:23.400 --> 1:34:25.439 That was the that was the most interesting and fun 1:34:25.479 --> 1:34:28.559 part of the character for me is his relationship to her. 1:34:30.160 --> 1:34:31.800 Do you Are you and Marishka still in touch? 1:34:32.640 --> 1:34:32.720 Not? 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:34.320 Yes and no. 1:34:34.360 --> 1:34:36.360 I mean we're in touch, but really not in a 1:34:36.439 --> 1:34:39.040 daily way or in a thing. And I do miss 1:34:39.040 --> 1:34:41.559 that because she's just kind of such a great person. 1:34:42.120 --> 1:34:46.240 I'm in touch more with Stephanie. Stephanie and so Stephanie 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:49.200 and I kind of but Stephanie and Murushka are also 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:53.160 very tight, so you know, peripherally, there's a kind of 1:34:53.840 --> 1:34:55.280 keeping track of people in that way. 1:34:55.760 --> 1:34:57.800 Yeah, that seems like a scoop that I liked. 1:34:59.080 --> 1:35:01.080 Well, we talked to Cat Craigan and he had just 1:35:01.120 --> 1:35:03.439 texted Mrshka for her birthday, so we're just interested. 1:35:03.560 --> 1:35:07.560 Yes, right, I just texted Stephanie today because I was 1:35:07.600 --> 1:35:09.880 at a restaurant and I said, have you been to 1:35:09.960 --> 1:35:12.280 this restaurant? This is an incredible restaurant, And of course 1:35:12.320 --> 1:35:14.559 she had been there. She knows every single restaurant in 1:35:14.560 --> 1:35:18.000 New York. That's what was it. Why on w A 1:35:18.400 --> 1:35:22.479 y A N in the Lower east Side or the 1:35:23.439 --> 1:35:25.480 kind of the Lower east Side is Chinatown. 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:27.920 Yeah, next trip to next trip to NYC. 1:35:28.439 --> 1:35:33.080 So your first episode is peak and yes, wild? Were 1:35:33.080 --> 1:35:35.280 you like, holy shit, they're really throwing me into this? 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:38.040 What have I gotten myself into? Like the end, he's 1:35:38.080 --> 1:35:40.240 just in bed with his he killed someone, he's like 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:41.080 licking his brush. 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:42.720 Ye everywhere. 1:35:42.800 --> 1:35:45.040 It was like such a wild first episode. 1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:48.840 I think, you know, this is really interesting for me 1:35:49.240 --> 1:35:52.760 because watching the show again in a way, and I 1:35:52.760 --> 1:35:57.240 haven't watched the show at all for years and years, 1:35:57.720 --> 1:36:00.600 and then kind of transporting myself back in time to 1:36:00.920 --> 1:36:03.240 my state of mind at the time. I don't think 1:36:03.280 --> 1:36:05.800 I was as aware of what you know, like you said, 1:36:05.840 --> 1:36:08.160 what I was getting myself into. I was kind of 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:13.160 just professionally kind of committing myself to the thing. I 1:36:13.160 --> 1:36:15.800 didn't really first of all, the character, it felt very 1:36:15.800 --> 1:36:18.760 procedural to me. I didn't know what his personality was. 1:36:18.800 --> 1:36:22.080 I just knew what his job was. And so as 1:36:22.280 --> 1:36:24.960 as I knew, as I continue to understand what his 1:36:25.040 --> 1:36:29.000 job was, then his behavior and his demeanor became clearer 1:36:29.040 --> 1:36:31.360 because he spoke a certain way than they always wrote 1:36:31.400 --> 1:36:35.880 that very consistently, and that's how the character kind of grew. 1:36:36.280 --> 1:36:40.519 I wasn't like, oh, he's a guy who dot dot dot, 1:36:40.840 --> 1:36:45.800 or this is the character that from a more personal standpoint, 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:48.439 he was more clinical. It was more like I was 1:36:48.479 --> 1:36:52.160 serving a purpose and I could understand the role based 1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:53.120 upon serving the purpose. 1:36:53.160 --> 1:36:55.080 So then when I look back. 1:36:54.920 --> 1:36:57.640 On it, I think, oh, wow, there was this, And 1:36:57.680 --> 1:37:01.680 maybe that's what created for me a sense of not 1:37:01.960 --> 1:37:05.880 leaning into how depraved people were, allowing me to be 1:37:05.960 --> 1:37:09.240 neutral about it and clinical about it, because I never 1:37:09.360 --> 1:37:11.800 kind of went, oh, god, you guys, this is really 1:37:11.840 --> 1:37:14.920 like upsetting. I didn't really ever play it that way. 1:37:14.920 --> 1:37:17.240 I never felt like the need to do that, because 1:37:17.240 --> 1:37:19.480 it just fell like, oh no, he's kind of a clinician, 1:37:19.560 --> 1:37:23.160 and he's also on some level a therapist, and so 1:37:23.360 --> 1:37:25.800 he's always going to be kind of neutral and objective. 1:37:25.800 --> 1:37:29.000 And I was maybe just starting my own therapy at 1:37:29.000 --> 1:37:32.920 the time where I realized that objectivity and a person 1:37:33.000 --> 1:37:37.000 not expressing their actual opinion in a therapy session was 1:37:37.040 --> 1:37:40.240 so valuable and so interesting and so good and. 1:37:40.200 --> 1:37:40.799 For a character. 1:37:40.840 --> 1:37:44.320 And I'm now to this day will watch therapy scenes 1:37:44.360 --> 1:37:47.599 and other shows and think, oh, I think you're showing 1:37:47.640 --> 1:37:50.160 what you think about what's actually happening in this in 1:37:50.200 --> 1:37:54.000 a way that's not actually what would actually happen, because 1:37:54.000 --> 1:37:57.240 therapists go out of their way to just be really 1:37:57.360 --> 1:38:00.639 kind of blank and say, well, what do what does 1:38:00.680 --> 1:38:03.960 that make you feel? As opposed to you know, doesn't 1:38:03.960 --> 1:38:06.200 that make you feel upset? They would never say doesn't 1:38:06.240 --> 1:38:06.720 that make you feel? 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:06.960 It's set? 1:38:06.960 --> 1:38:09.080 They'd say, how does it make you feel? There's a 1:38:09.200 --> 1:38:11.960 very slight difference, but I think it is a big 1:38:12.000 --> 1:38:17.439 difference in George's whole persona that he bases everything on 1:38:17.520 --> 1:38:20.639 that kind of neutrality. To answer your question, I didn't 1:38:20.640 --> 1:38:24.800 really feel like I was. I didn't understand as I 1:38:24.840 --> 1:38:28.040 do now looking back, the who of it as I 1:38:28.120 --> 1:38:31.200 do now looking back on it. And you always watch 1:38:31.240 --> 1:38:34.960 you often look at things from your past past work 1:38:35.000 --> 1:38:36.680 and kind of judge it and say you do it 1:38:36.720 --> 1:38:37.759 differently or whatever. 1:38:38.680 --> 1:38:40.920 But I was a little naive about it. 1:38:40.960 --> 1:38:42.519 I was like, kind of, Okay, so this is the 1:38:42.560 --> 1:38:47.240 part he's the analyst to this kind of into the 1:38:47.280 --> 1:38:51.640 mind of and the killer or whatever or the perpetrator, 1:38:52.080 --> 1:38:54.679 And can I understand that he'll come in and report 1:38:54.720 --> 1:38:57.720 on these things? And I was, you know, experimenting with 1:38:57.760 --> 1:39:00.720 all these crazy things, like I had actually had a 1:39:00.720 --> 1:39:02.840 a British accent in the first episode, and then we 1:39:03.040 --> 1:39:04.960 I redubbed the whole episode. 1:39:05.080 --> 1:39:08.599 Oh, I was like, I don't really. We also noticed 1:39:08.640 --> 1:39:10.040 that you had glasses. 1:39:09.600 --> 1:39:11.280 In the beginning, and they just it was just the 1:39:11.320 --> 1:39:13.720 first episode and then it's like no, no, no glasses, 1:39:13.800 --> 1:39:15.880 bye bye, And I was, I was, you know, I 1:39:17.040 --> 1:39:20.519 come from This is a very interesting Now that you're 1:39:20.520 --> 1:39:23.800 pointing this out, I'm realizing what happened actually is that 1:39:23.960 --> 1:39:26.080 I have I came from a background of being what 1:39:26.160 --> 1:39:28.720 I would call a character actor, an actor that is 1:39:28.800 --> 1:39:33.160 not not not mining my own personality, but looking for 1:39:33.240 --> 1:39:36.559 another personality to play. And I had done this in 1:39:36.600 --> 1:39:39.240 a lot of movies prior to this, Like my work 1:39:39.800 --> 1:39:44.800 was generated in the theater certainly as well by adopting characters. 1:39:45.280 --> 1:39:47.200 And so here I came into the first day of 1:39:47.240 --> 1:39:51.640 this series, my first of four like trial episodes, and 1:39:51.680 --> 1:39:54.000 I wanted glasses. I wanted to have an accent, and 1:39:54.040 --> 1:39:57.680 I wanted to create a person. And then after that 1:39:57.720 --> 1:40:00.360 first episode, I was talked out of it, but I 1:40:00.360 --> 1:40:02.559 also talked myself out of it, going, oh, I see 1:40:02.600 --> 1:40:05.040 it's just me on a procedural and I just can 1:40:05.120 --> 1:40:08.040 just kind of like ride the wave of me talking 1:40:08.040 --> 1:40:09.680 the way that I talk and looking the way that 1:40:09.720 --> 1:40:13.960 I look, And that was refreshing for me for a while. 1:40:14.680 --> 1:40:17.320 And then I. 1:40:16.560 --> 1:40:18.280 Stayed on the show as long as I did, and 1:40:18.280 --> 1:40:21.680 then when I finally moved on from the show, it 1:40:21.760 --> 1:40:25.840 took me and my representatives and in my career a 1:40:25.920 --> 1:40:30.600 couple of years to get my footing back where I 1:40:30.600 --> 1:40:33.680 have now again, I feel like I'm I'm back in 1:40:33.920 --> 1:40:37.040 character land, which I am more comfortable in and where 1:40:37.080 --> 1:40:39.599 I where each time I go into a new job, 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:41.680 I'm looking for the glasses and the accent, like I 1:40:41.720 --> 1:40:44.720 really am embracing that again and that I see that 1:40:44.760 --> 1:40:45.559 other people are. 1:40:45.520 --> 1:40:46.679 Hiring me that way. 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:49.559 But for a minute after coming out of a procedural, 1:40:49.600 --> 1:40:51.840 people are like, well, what do you bring to the table? 1:40:52.080 --> 1:40:52.280 You know? 1:40:52.320 --> 1:40:52.400 Not? 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:53.640 You know? 1:40:53.720 --> 1:40:57.400 And that was really interesting. I kind of became this 1:40:57.479 --> 1:41:02.280 procedural guy for eleven years and then had to kind 1:41:02.320 --> 1:41:04.599 of figure out how to get back and find myself again. 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:06.040 And I think that was one of the reasons why 1:41:06.040 --> 1:41:08.519 I did move on from it, because I didn't feel 1:41:08.560 --> 1:41:10.240 like that was really myself as a performer. 1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:12.760 So we're having you on obviously because we want to 1:41:12.800 --> 1:41:15.759 talk to you about all two hundred episodes in the show. 1:41:16.479 --> 1:41:17.920 So if we can just start from the top, No, 1:41:18.160 --> 1:41:20.479 we we actually this is probably going to be part 1:41:20.520 --> 1:41:23.960 of the episode Execution, which we picked because we thought 1:41:24.000 --> 1:41:27.040 that was like sort of like ahuong heavy episode, like where. 1:41:26.840 --> 1:41:29.400 You're got to a wall. Yeah, you got thrown into 1:41:29.439 --> 1:41:29.880 a wall. 1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:31.960 You got to sort of you got to sort of 1:41:32.000 --> 1:41:35.120 really like big time Christopher Maloney, which is fun, like, 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:37.639 you know, he thinks he's sort of running this serial 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:41.040 killer interrogation and you're like, I'm in charge. 1:41:41.160 --> 1:41:44.640 So do you remember anything about that episode or you 1:41:44.680 --> 1:41:45.120 watched it. 1:41:45.080 --> 1:41:48.720 Before you Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm you know, I'm not 1:41:49.120 --> 1:41:51.800 messing around here. I thank you, And that's why I 1:41:51.880 --> 1:41:54.320 was late coming to you. I just full disclosure to 1:41:54.479 --> 1:41:57.000 everyone out there. I came fifteen minutes late because I said, oh, 1:41:57.000 --> 1:41:58.719 I need fifteen more minutes to finish this show. 1:41:58.840 --> 1:41:59.880 The best of it was a. 1:42:00.120 --> 1:42:04.800 Fifty for the second time, and I remember a lot 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:08.720 about it. One it was I don't know if you've 1:42:08.720 --> 1:42:11.679 gone over this with people before, you probably have SVU 1:42:11.880 --> 1:42:14.680 at least in certain times of its history has been 1:42:14.760 --> 1:42:21.679 famous for really long hours, and especially on a Friday night, 1:42:22.120 --> 1:42:25.840 because the turnaround of time that you have to give 1:42:26.040 --> 1:42:28.760 the crew off. If you start at five o'clock in 1:42:28.800 --> 1:42:31.120 the morning on a Monday and you end at seven 1:42:31.160 --> 1:42:33.240 point thirty, then you have to turn the crew around. 1:42:33.280 --> 1:42:34.960 So then the next day you don't start at five thirty, 1:42:34.960 --> 1:42:38.240 you start at seven. And then by Friday, if you 1:42:38.520 --> 1:42:42.080 are shooting in a leisurely fashion and you're not on 1:42:42.120 --> 1:42:44.919 the schedule, you could be starting at ten or eleven 1:42:45.080 --> 1:42:48.400 in the morning or noon and going until two or 1:42:48.400 --> 1:42:52.200 three in the morning. And on Saturday it's called a 1:42:52.240 --> 1:42:54.960 friturday on our in. 1:42:54.960 --> 1:42:55.920 The SBO and SVU. 1:42:55.960 --> 1:42:57.559 For a stretch of the time that I was there, 1:42:59.439 --> 1:43:01.840 it was neutroy and it really wears people down. It's 1:43:01.920 --> 1:43:06.080 very exhausting, but there's a kind of in the trenches 1:43:06.160 --> 1:43:07.160 feeling to it, you know. 1:43:07.840 --> 1:43:09.400 And I know that these scenes. 1:43:09.080 --> 1:43:12.439 With Nick Chinlin in the interrogation room were at one 1:43:12.479 --> 1:43:15.720 o'clock in the morning what I imagine was a Friday night. 1:43:15.800 --> 1:43:17.600 It might have been a Thursday night, but it was 1:43:17.640 --> 1:43:20.479 either a Thursday or Friday night, and it's one I. 1:43:20.400 --> 1:43:21.679 Remember thinking for some reason. 1:43:21.760 --> 1:43:24.080 Oh, I'm never going to forget how this feels, which 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:27.000 is I'm exhausted and we're having to play this really 1:43:27.080 --> 1:43:32.080 kind of intense scene. And there was a sense somehow, 1:43:32.320 --> 1:43:34.120 and I think you can sense it in the final 1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:37.160 cut of this show that it's a unique episode, like 1:43:37.400 --> 1:43:39.880 those scenes with him are more like a movie than 1:43:39.920 --> 1:43:42.280 there than they're in a TV show, or more like 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:48.439 an interrogation scene in a film like way than even 1:43:48.479 --> 1:43:52.599 the regular interrogation scenes that we have in SVU. And 1:43:52.680 --> 1:43:55.519 so there was that as part of it. And then 1:43:56.040 --> 1:43:57.960 Nick Chinlin, do you have you ever had him on? 1:43:58.439 --> 1:44:02.120 No, we haven't, but we know he was originally auditioning 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:03.360 to be the role of Stabler. 1:44:03.680 --> 1:44:05.519 Yes, and that was kind of That's kind of the 1:44:05.560 --> 1:44:07.880 trivia that I think is the most the greatest trivia 1:44:07.880 --> 1:44:11.120 about that episode. And you can see, you know what 1:44:11.280 --> 1:44:12.519 where that might have come from. 1:44:12.680 --> 1:44:14.920 Yeah, it's very like it's very Silence of the Land. 1:44:14.960 --> 1:44:18.080 It is very like very it's it reminds me of 1:44:18.120 --> 1:44:19.880 sort of the scenes that you see in mind Hunter, 1:44:20.040 --> 1:44:22.799 which is like the case that we think this episode's 1:44:22.840 --> 1:44:24.960 based off of, is like the interview with ed ed Kemper, 1:44:25.200 --> 1:44:28.599 like a famous serial killer and like there's videos of that, 1:44:28.720 --> 1:44:29.799 but yeah, it is more. 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:31.560 Cinematic almost this episode. 1:44:31.760 --> 1:44:33.960 Well, how about the stuff like getting your head semmed 1:44:33.960 --> 1:44:35.160 against the What was that you did? 1:44:35.200 --> 1:44:35.240 You? 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:37.880 Did you have a stunt person or like how were they? 1:44:38.040 --> 1:44:38.320 No? 1:44:38.320 --> 1:44:40.360 No, they I did it and I and I learned, 1:44:40.439 --> 1:44:42.519 I mean I knew how to exactly how to have 1:44:42.560 --> 1:44:44.200 a little bit of experience, like you know, how to 1:44:44.240 --> 1:44:46.599 make yourself look like you're getting slammed against the wall 1:44:46.640 --> 1:44:48.559 when you're really not, and you have to work with 1:44:48.600 --> 1:44:51.360 the other actor to do that. And they always have 1:44:51.560 --> 1:44:55.799 somebody there addressed like you, to step in at any moment, 1:44:55.840 --> 1:44:57.679 and then they always ask you what do you feel 1:44:57.720 --> 1:44:58.240 feel about this? 1:44:58.280 --> 1:44:59.960 What's your comfort level actually doing it yourself? 1:45:00.640 --> 1:45:03.120 And there are times when they want to use a 1:45:03.120 --> 1:45:05.200 stun person and you go, oh, I really really want 1:45:05.280 --> 1:45:08.280 to do this. And what I think we thought at 1:45:08.280 --> 1:45:10.160 this point is, well, it really will be good if 1:45:10.200 --> 1:45:10.799 it looks. 1:45:10.560 --> 1:45:11.240 Like it's my face. 1:45:11.280 --> 1:45:13.120 You can see my face there, and you really can 1:45:13.320 --> 1:45:14.639 you can see that it's my face. 1:45:14.760 --> 1:45:16.680 Yeah, And then I remember thinking, oh, my mom's going 1:45:16.720 --> 1:45:17.240 to hate this. 1:45:17.240 --> 1:45:21.040 This is like really intense, you know, and other people, 1:45:21.080 --> 1:45:24.080 like I remember people calling me or texting me after 1:45:24.160 --> 1:45:27.439 it came on, probably calling me and saying, oh my god, 1:45:27.479 --> 1:45:29.880 that's that was really intense. I didn't like seeing that, 1:45:30.000 --> 1:45:32.720 you know, people that know me and like me. So 1:45:33.120 --> 1:45:36.519 there was that, and I look back at it now 1:45:36.560 --> 1:45:40.760 and I always felt to be a little self critical 1:45:41.080 --> 1:45:43.400 that there were some really subtle things in that show 1:45:43.479 --> 1:45:47.040 that we didn't actually nail, and that could have been 1:45:47.240 --> 1:45:49.120 if it was a film, we might have been able 1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:51.439 to kind of explore. One of them is the moment 1:45:51.680 --> 1:45:55.000 before in the opening of this show where he's about 1:45:55.000 --> 1:45:57.280 to snap and I see that he's about to snap, 1:45:57.640 --> 1:45:59.920 and then I warned Stabler and the whole thing goes 1:46:00.040 --> 1:46:03.639 crazy because he does in fact snap, and the warning 1:46:03.720 --> 1:46:08.160 signs I don't think are as clear as as they 1:46:08.360 --> 1:46:11.400 were indicated in the script, and we weren't all kind of. 1:46:13.200 --> 1:46:14.479 We could have used a little bit. 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:16.400 More rehearsal is what I think we could have done. 1:46:16.520 --> 1:46:19.680 But I think it actually plays quite beautifully. But I 1:46:19.760 --> 1:46:22.240 do watch it and go, oh, yeah, there's that thing 1:46:22.240 --> 1:46:26.679 where he says watch out for these things, and then 1:46:27.439 --> 1:46:30.920 we see those things actually happening, and then we start 1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:34.240 getting nervous because we know that, oh, my gosh, he's 1:46:34.240 --> 1:46:35.800 going to start unraveling and Okay, I'm going to go 1:46:35.840 --> 1:46:38.400 over and push the button on the wall and we're 1:46:38.400 --> 1:46:40.800 going to get the people to come in. And that 1:46:41.000 --> 1:46:44.400 somehow never had the same impact that I pictured it 1:46:44.439 --> 1:46:47.639 happening in my mind. But I still think it's really great, 1:46:47.840 --> 1:46:51.800 and I think that Nick gave a great performance and 1:46:52.000 --> 1:46:56.679 was really appropriately kind of Hannibal lectorish. 1:46:56.760 --> 1:46:59.920 I was going to ask you really quickly about this 1:47:00.080 --> 1:47:03.479 episode where because like you have this really interesting episode 1:47:03.479 --> 1:47:06.880 with Stabler too, like because you know, he'll try to 1:47:06.920 --> 1:47:09.680 sort of put you down because he's not into psychologists 1:47:09.680 --> 1:47:12.519 like Lisa mentioned or he's not into psychiatry, and then 1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:14.160 you can sort of stand up to him, but then 1:47:14.200 --> 1:47:16.280 you're you've also been this like shoulder for him to 1:47:16.320 --> 1:47:19.519 cry on in many different episodes. We just did fault 1:47:19.520 --> 1:47:21.920 recently the episode with Lou Diamond Phillips where he like 1:47:22.200 --> 1:47:24.679 murders a child and Elliott's you know, moments away from 1:47:24.720 --> 1:47:27.479 saving the child and he goes to Huang like that's 1:47:27.479 --> 1:47:30.360 who he goes to for like his yeah, like. 1:47:30.720 --> 1:47:32.720 You know, to talk out his feelings. 1:47:33.600 --> 1:47:35.400 So I was just wondering, like, what was your relationship 1:47:35.479 --> 1:47:38.519 like with like with like h Chris Maloney and like. 1:47:38.520 --> 1:47:40.040 You know, well and you had known him for a 1:47:40.040 --> 1:47:41.680 long time. Yeah, oh yeah, you. 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:44.439 Had known him for a long time. And I love him. 1:47:44.520 --> 1:47:47.880 I think he's a very special person. Actually, he's a 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:52.559 he's a very He presents a certain thing. He certainly 1:47:52.560 --> 1:47:54.879 presents the certain things on those on these two shows, 1:47:55.280 --> 1:47:57.920 and he's aware of that presence, and he's aware of 1:47:57.960 --> 1:48:00.519 the power of that, and so as a result, he 1:48:00.640 --> 1:48:04.120 undercuts it with humor. And he undercuts all of that 1:48:04.240 --> 1:48:09.519 intenseness with a kind of boyish kind of humor, like 1:48:09.560 --> 1:48:13.000 a kind of you know, like a silliness actually, and 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:16.680 and and on the set. And he is famous kind 1:48:16.720 --> 1:48:20.880 of for creating a sense of joeviality on the set 1:48:21.080 --> 1:48:22.920 when all these crazy things are happening, you know, when 1:48:22.920 --> 1:48:25.519 all these terrible things are happening in the show. And 1:48:25.760 --> 1:48:30.120 in a way that's that's very endearing. And I always 1:48:30.160 --> 1:48:33.760 liked playing scenes with him, and I certainly always liked 1:48:33.840 --> 1:48:37.880 in the show whenever somebody came to me personally, which 1:48:37.960 --> 1:48:43.599 happened with mostly with with Olivia and mostly with Elliott 1:48:43.600 --> 1:48:45.880 a little bit. I don't know if anybody else really 1:48:45.880 --> 1:48:49.000 actually did it that much. But when that happened, I 1:48:49.040 --> 1:48:51.120 always felt, oh good, like this is a chance for 1:48:51.160 --> 1:48:54.400 me to be a person and to do not be 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:58.799 relating this ULTI facts or you know, research or whatever 1:48:59.120 --> 1:49:02.360 my training. And yet my training of course plays a 1:49:02.439 --> 1:49:06.080 role and actually helping somebody kind of get through something, 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:09.679 whatever it might be. And I loved those kinds of scenes. 1:49:09.720 --> 1:49:12.200 I love, love love them. I was better in those 1:49:12.240 --> 1:49:15.719 scenes than I was in the clinical scenes. I think 1:49:16.080 --> 1:49:19.280 whenever somebody asked me for my advice or or I 1:49:19.360 --> 1:49:20.839 was able to say, hey, are you okay? 1:49:20.920 --> 1:49:22.439 That always is better. 1:49:22.920 --> 1:49:26.920 So I don't remember specifically the day that we shot 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:29.920 any of those scenes with Chris, but I do remember 1:49:30.320 --> 1:49:33.599 it sincerely, remember enjoying those scenes and going, oh, look 1:49:33.640 --> 1:49:33.920 at us. 1:49:33.920 --> 1:49:36.000 We have a scene. We're having a scene together. 1:49:36.040 --> 1:49:37.760 And now the actors do this all the time, where 1:49:37.760 --> 1:49:39.719 they go, oh look at us, we're in a scene together. 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:42.639 We haven't been in a scene all season, and that's 1:49:42.640 --> 1:49:45.120 always a kind of fun thing to notice and enjoy 1:49:46.040 --> 1:49:46.880 and stuff like that. 1:49:47.400 --> 1:49:51.040 Do you have any thoughts on his new asses fame, 1:49:51.760 --> 1:49:53.000 his butts all over. 1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:58.160 The internet as much as me, I'm not only the 1:49:58.160 --> 1:49:59.720 internet as much as you. But all I can say 1:49:59.760 --> 1:50:00.759 is I know exactly. 1:50:01.240 --> 1:50:03.160 I mean, I I'm. 1:50:02.479 --> 1:50:05.800 Guessing what you're talking about. And I'm gonna say, well, 1:50:06.040 --> 1:50:07.160 what has taken so long? 1:50:07.479 --> 1:50:08.360 Really? Right? 1:50:09.320 --> 1:50:11.320 Any of us who watched the first five years of 1:50:12.800 --> 1:50:14.920 and you know, and and again I will say, I 1:50:15.120 --> 1:50:16.800 will throw him under the bus, right, I mean, I 1:50:16.840 --> 1:50:19.400 have no problem throwing him. He's so aware of this 1:50:20.200 --> 1:50:22.080 and he will stick it in your face. 1:50:22.720 --> 1:50:22.920 Oh. 1:50:22.960 --> 1:50:26.160 He's been like responding to people on Twitter, people asking 1:50:26.200 --> 1:50:28.120 him like, how do you have these big cakes? 1:50:28.160 --> 1:50:29.360 And he like writes. 1:50:29.080 --> 1:50:31.240 Back, yeah, oh, he'll tell you. I mean, it's a 1:50:31.240 --> 1:50:32.960 formula and if you want to do it, you could 1:50:33.000 --> 1:50:35.000 have cakes like that too. But it is a lot 1:50:35.080 --> 1:50:39.320 of work. And he's a very disciplined guy. And you know, 1:50:40.960 --> 1:50:43.599 kudos to him for owning it. 1:50:43.720 --> 1:50:43.960 Right. 1:50:44.400 --> 1:50:48.200 And here we are, you know, we're where's sixty? You know, 1:50:48.280 --> 1:50:50.720 so you know this is at the time of your 1:50:50.720 --> 1:50:51.240 life when. 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:53.840 Which I thought I thought was a vicious online rumor 1:50:53.840 --> 1:50:57.040 about you. That makes no sense to me that you're sixty. 1:50:57.080 --> 1:51:00.160 Well thanks, I mean, yeah, I think Chris and I 1:51:00.200 --> 1:51:02.400 are basically the same age. 1:51:01.880 --> 1:51:05.280 And hear him too, yeahah, you both look like I 1:51:05.320 --> 1:51:06.839 don't know, nothing's changed. 1:51:07.640 --> 1:51:10.680 Well I know, no, you're wrong, because I watched this. 1:51:10.880 --> 1:51:12.880 I just watched the show and I think, yes, plenty 1:51:12.920 --> 1:51:15.160 has changed. And I'm watching it. 1:51:15.160 --> 1:51:15.479 It's me. 1:51:15.560 --> 1:51:18.120 I'm watching my own face and watching Stephanie, and I'm 1:51:18.160 --> 1:51:22.160 watching Chris and I'm watching Merchigan her little pixie haircut, 1:51:22.200 --> 1:51:24.280 and I'm going, wow, look at this people. 1:51:24.360 --> 1:51:29.479 Who are those people? And it's wonderful, It's very nice. 1:51:29.960 --> 1:51:31.000 So what are you working on now? 1:51:31.000 --> 1:51:32.880 I know you just I think you just wrapped on 1:51:32.920 --> 1:51:36.160 Nora from Queens another season of Normal Queens, and I. 1:51:36.120 --> 1:51:38.160 Do love that show, and that has been really a 1:51:38.200 --> 1:51:41.280 good show for me and to me. And you know, 1:51:41.360 --> 1:51:44.639 the first step is the first season I enjoyed very much, 1:51:44.680 --> 1:51:48.040 and I enjoyed the second season even more. Getting to 1:51:48.080 --> 1:51:50.519 know all these people even better and loving them and 1:51:51.040 --> 1:51:53.800 becoming closer to them has been a big part of that. 1:51:53.920 --> 1:51:57.160 But also my involvement in the show has deepened, and 1:51:57.280 --> 1:52:00.120 my role in the show in some ways has deepened, 1:52:00.560 --> 1:52:03.240 and so and I directed an episode this year, and 1:52:03.320 --> 1:52:04.960 so I'm super into it. 1:52:05.000 --> 1:52:05.960 I highly recommend it. 1:52:06.000 --> 1:52:09.200 I mean, it's I'm not sure what the crossover from 1:52:09.360 --> 1:52:12.519 s you to nor from the Queens is. But if 1:52:12.560 --> 1:52:15.479 you are so inclined, I would I would tell people not. 1:52:15.760 --> 1:52:18.479 I bet it's not small. I mean a lot of things. 1:52:19.040 --> 1:52:21.559 People that listen to our podcast at least like comedy, yes, 1:52:21.640 --> 1:52:22.720 work comedians, yes. 1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:26.880 And you talk about Bowen and Bowen's our touchstone, right, 1:52:26.960 --> 1:52:27.400 are our. 1:52:27.360 --> 1:52:29.640 Comment right, He's our common denominator. 1:52:29.720 --> 1:52:32.600 And I've I've worked with Aquafina once before and she 1:52:32.760 --> 1:52:35.120 was lovely and so great and funny. 1:52:35.160 --> 1:52:37.840 And I also loved hearing you on Less Culture says 1:52:38.320 --> 1:52:40.160 talk about how nice it was to be able to 1:52:40.200 --> 1:52:42.439 have relatability with your co stars in a way that 1:52:42.479 --> 1:52:46.120 you haven't been able to before such a nice large 1:52:46.160 --> 1:52:49.680 Asian cast like Bone's talking about some kind of mushrooms 1:52:50.240 --> 1:52:52.200 and that like he's never been on a set where 1:52:52.240 --> 1:52:54.080 like everyone's eating the mushrooms. 1:52:54.080 --> 1:52:56.760 That's right, And I just thought that was beautiful. 1:52:57.000 --> 1:52:59.479 Yes, it is beautiful, and it's it's something that I 1:52:59.479 --> 1:53:03.160 think is really valuable for someone like going to point 1:53:03.200 --> 1:53:05.960 out because people that don't have that experience, or people 1:53:05.960 --> 1:53:07.880 can relate to it in their own sphere in one 1:53:07.920 --> 1:53:11.840 way or another, women or or people of a certain 1:53:11.920 --> 1:53:14.760 age or whatever. It is that when you're in a 1:53:14.800 --> 1:53:18.600 group of people in which you can all overlap with 1:53:18.680 --> 1:53:23.120 some kind of experience or some kind of commonality, then 1:53:24.120 --> 1:53:27.280 there's a bond that occurs, whether you want to or not. 1:53:27.880 --> 1:53:30.800 And so with Asian people, and it's particularly with Asian 1:53:30.840 --> 1:53:34.800 people in the media in television, where we feel a 1:53:34.800 --> 1:53:39.880 little bit left out. Sometimes that cohesion is quite powerful. Actually, 1:53:39.960 --> 1:53:42.439 it's like, Wow, I didn't even know I was missing this, 1:53:42.520 --> 1:53:47.080 and now I realize how robbed I feel that I 1:53:47.120 --> 1:53:48.800 haven't had this every day of my life, this whole 1:53:48.840 --> 1:53:53.599 mushrooms conversation, this whole idea that I can be. I 1:53:53.640 --> 1:53:56.240 have shorthand with people. Shorthand is part of. 1:53:56.240 --> 1:53:56.679 It, I think. 1:53:56.880 --> 1:53:58.240 And do you want to direct more? 1:53:58.439 --> 1:54:01.120 I do. Yeah, I've always been a dire. I directed 1:54:01.120 --> 1:54:03.080 when I was you know, theater and everything. Back when 1:54:03.120 --> 1:54:05.600 I was in high school, I had this great relationship 1:54:05.640 --> 1:54:08.880 with a teacher who encouraged me to do lots of 1:54:08.920 --> 1:54:12.160 different things, and then, as luck would have it, I 1:54:12.240 --> 1:54:14.519 concentrated on being an actor really, to be quite honest, 1:54:14.520 --> 1:54:16.600 And it is only now that I'm like saying no, 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:19.000 but I really want to be doing these other things. 1:54:19.040 --> 1:54:21.800 And I've never really been able to concentrate on them. 1:54:21.880 --> 1:54:26.559 So being able to do that on the Aquafina Show 1:54:26.800 --> 1:54:30.240 was really really great for me. Really kind of it 1:54:30.280 --> 1:54:31.760 felt like a door opening kind of. 1:54:35.680 --> 1:54:38.600 Liza, I don't know. I'm still shocked and stunned what 1:54:38.800 --> 1:54:42.280 I mean. We just I'm so excited. People have been 1:54:43.280 --> 1:54:45.960 talking to us about getting bed Wong on the show, 1:54:46.080 --> 1:54:47.920 and I'm just so excited we were able to do it. 1:54:47.960 --> 1:54:50.160 And he is a dream person. We could have talked 1:54:50.160 --> 1:54:51.200 to him for so much longer. 1:54:51.360 --> 1:54:51.560 Yeah. 1:54:51.560 --> 1:54:53.400 I also like that we had to like he didn't 1:54:53.440 --> 1:54:54.640 let us off the hook, and he was like, why 1:54:54.720 --> 1:54:57.200 do people like me? I need to know the exact reasons, 1:54:58.840 --> 1:55:01.160 so I like to do it. I liked that. That 1:55:01.320 --> 1:55:04.800 was that was really fun. No, He's so good And 1:55:04.880 --> 1:55:06.480 I love people where you could tell they love their 1:55:06.520 --> 1:55:09.560 craft and what they do and are like so thoughtful 1:55:09.640 --> 1:55:12.800 and so giving with their time and answers. And I've 1:55:12.880 --> 1:55:15.240 just been obsessed with him for decades. It is crazy 1:55:15.280 --> 1:55:17.360 to be like you were and father, You've been in 1:55:17.400 --> 1:55:20.200 my life for decades. Yeah, but I guess so many 1:55:20.280 --> 1:55:22.480 of the sv you cast has but yeah, you know. 1:55:22.720 --> 1:55:24.800 And I have to say, always nice when a guest 1:55:24.840 --> 1:55:28.080 rewatches an episode, their episode that we're going to talk about, 1:55:28.160 --> 1:55:30.280 always nice when they take the time, and I. 1:55:30.240 --> 1:55:32.960 Love that BEADI also knows that George Huang is the truth, 1:55:33.040 --> 1:55:34.640 you know what I mean. I thought he was going 1:55:34.720 --> 1:55:36.760 to school me and be like, please stop taking what 1:55:36.800 --> 1:55:37.640 he says is fact. 1:55:37.720 --> 1:55:39.360 But I love that he was like, no, yeah, I 1:55:39.360 --> 1:55:41.280 think that show is to research. 1:55:41.280 --> 1:55:43.600 It's too based in research and fact for them to 1:55:43.720 --> 1:55:47.680 be like I think they stretch shit sometimes, but Huang 1:55:47.880 --> 1:55:52.520 is an encyclopedia. Well, okay, So for our postmort im, 1:55:52.520 --> 1:55:55.520 besides learning that bed Wang is amazing, what did we 1:55:55.600 --> 1:55:56.879 learn from today's episode? 1:55:56.960 --> 1:56:00.160 I mean, hitchhiking is just not an option? Don't do it? 1:56:00.400 --> 1:56:03.440 Yeah, no, hitchhiking, especially now with all of our phones 1:56:03.560 --> 1:56:06.520 and all the options that we have, there's really you know, 1:56:06.560 --> 1:56:10.480 this was a while ago, so good for technology. Bad 1:56:10.520 --> 1:56:12.680 if your phone dies. I mean, I don't know, it's 1:56:12.720 --> 1:56:13.680 scary out there. 1:56:14.000 --> 1:56:17.280 Right, I mean, there's not that much like like the 1:56:17.280 --> 1:56:20.280 the execution episode is like so specific and it's so 1:56:20.400 --> 1:56:24.640 about like a truly deranged like serial killer. So I 1:56:24.640 --> 1:56:28.680 don't know how much we like learned specifically from it, 1:56:28.760 --> 1:56:33.080 but I guess Alex Cabot is a fucking boss and 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:36.520 ty Burrell's character can go screw Like he thought you're 1:56:36.720 --> 1:56:38.480 you're good, Alex, but you're not spectacular. 1:56:39.040 --> 1:56:40.800 I think we found out who was spectacular in the. 1:56:40.800 --> 1:56:41.200 End, didn't we. 1:56:43.360 --> 1:56:47.360 Yeah, But also like, don't hang out with killers when 1:56:47.720 --> 1:56:49.280 the shift change is about to happen. 1:56:49.920 --> 1:56:52.760 That's really Yeah, that's a good that's a good thing. 1:56:53.360 --> 1:56:55.920 When you're scheduling your visit with a serial killer, make 1:56:56.080 --> 1:57:00.120 sure that it is not during a shift change, yeah. 1:56:59.840 --> 1:57:02.200 Or like the week before he's about to get killed. 1:57:02.280 --> 1:57:05.600 I don't know, it's it's just testy stuff, it is. 1:57:06.200 --> 1:57:07.560 I mean, that's what I wanted to do when I 1:57:07.600 --> 1:57:09.440 was a young girl, before I realized, you know, I'm 1:57:09.480 --> 1:57:13.200 not really into academics, but I wanted to like work 1:57:13.240 --> 1:57:15.080 in prisons and talk to killers. And then I was like, 1:57:15.080 --> 1:57:18.360 I don't rather have a good time then look at 1:57:18.360 --> 1:57:21.880 Gray Walls. I don't think I could do it. But 1:57:21.920 --> 1:57:25.240 from the kill. Also like, if someone murders a bunch 1:57:25.280 --> 1:57:27.240 of people at age fifteen, don't let him out at 1:57:27.280 --> 1:57:27.720 twenty one? 1:57:27.880 --> 1:57:30.240 Is that this crime? Or now I get everything confused. No, 1:57:30.360 --> 1:57:33.080 you're right, that's at Kember. He killed his grandparents and 1:57:33.120 --> 1:57:34.600 then he killed more many more people. 1:57:34.920 --> 1:57:37.920 Yeah, like leave them, and it's just like, it's so frustrating. 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:39.480 I know we touch on this a lot, but that 1:57:39.560 --> 1:57:42.960 we have people sitting in prison for like tiny amounts 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:45.680 of coke or weat or something or I. 1:57:45.640 --> 1:57:47.480 Don't know, robbing some stuff. 1:57:47.520 --> 1:57:51.120 And then you have people who murdered family members that 1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:54.080 are like, yeah, I have fun out there, peace out, 1:57:54.280 --> 1:57:56.560 go back, go back, and kill more people. 1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:58.440 Like it's so fucked up. 1:57:59.160 --> 1:58:01.600 When you start dating someone or meeting someone or anything, 1:58:02.040 --> 1:58:04.000 figure out what their relationship with their mothers. 1:58:04.120 --> 1:58:06.200 Like, I think that's important. I think we. 1:58:06.200 --> 1:58:08.680 Need to know how you feel about your mother and 1:58:08.840 --> 1:58:11.560 make sure it's good and if. 1:58:11.400 --> 1:58:13.720 Not, yeah, keep I've ever had the urge to cut 1:58:13.720 --> 1:58:15.080 out your mom's vocal cords. 1:58:15.280 --> 1:58:16.960 I don't think we're getting a second bumble date. 1:58:17.480 --> 1:58:20.280 You know, I keep talking about the larynx to everybody, 1:58:20.320 --> 1:58:23.200 and it really upsets people, but I can't stop bringing 1:58:23.200 --> 1:58:24.360 it into normal conversation. 1:58:24.480 --> 1:58:28.240 It seems very on brand for you, Lisa. 1:58:28.320 --> 1:58:29.240 I also think I. 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:31.520 Also think that this episode like brings up a very 1:58:31.920 --> 1:58:35.480 interesting issue about death penalty. You know, I'm anti death 1:58:35.560 --> 1:58:38.440 penalty mostly, I mean I am, I'm anti death penalty. 1:58:39.240 --> 1:58:42.840 And I think it's just like what that father was 1:58:42.880 --> 1:58:46.720 saying of the other the cellmates victim, like you when 1:58:46.720 --> 1:58:48.640 this happens to you, like the wound never closes, Like 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:51.080 I don't think killing the killer closes that wound for you. 1:58:51.200 --> 1:58:53.440 And it also is certainly not going to close a 1:58:53.480 --> 1:58:53.960 wound for. 1:58:54.040 --> 1:58:57.480 Like possible other victims that exist that this person is 1:58:57.520 --> 1:59:00.280 going to the grave with the information about So just. 1:59:00.240 --> 1:59:02.520 One example of why I don't believe in the death penalty. 1:59:02.560 --> 1:59:05.280 But well, how are you better than anyone when you're 1:59:05.280 --> 1:59:06.160 doing the crime? 1:59:06.440 --> 1:59:07.720 Like you know what I mean? 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:12.240 Yeah, And actually a few episodes ago I mentioned the 1:59:12.360 --> 1:59:16.280 sociologists and that HBO show Crazy Not Insane, And one 1:59:16.280 --> 1:59:18.800 of the things she did was she talked to a 1:59:18.800 --> 1:59:22.520 professional executioner who's like a traveling executioner and he goes 1:59:22.520 --> 1:59:24.280 from town to town executing people. 1:59:24.360 --> 1:59:26.320 Oh my god, and that's his job. 1:59:26.800 --> 1:59:30.080 And she said that talking to him was the first 1:59:30.080 --> 1:59:32.600 time she actually felt scared and like talking to a 1:59:32.600 --> 1:59:35.560 true psychopath because so many of the other killers were 1:59:35.600 --> 1:59:39.120 mentally ill. But he doesn't even realize that he had 1:59:39.200 --> 1:59:42.360 trauma and how it's affected in him and how being 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:45.800 an executioner does affect his psyche, right, and he started 1:59:45.840 --> 1:59:48.120 showing her, so I guess after he does an execution, 1:59:48.840 --> 1:59:51.520 he goes in paints, he blacks out and paints, and 1:59:51.560 --> 1:59:55.760 the paintings were so scary, but he saw no problems 1:59:55.760 --> 1:59:58.120 and was just like, yep, that's what I do and 1:59:58.920 --> 2:00:01.520 it's just interesting. So to me, it's like, we can't 2:00:01.520 --> 2:00:04.720 punish killers by killing, cause you become that killer. Like 2:00:05.280 --> 2:00:08.800 it's I don't think it's good for anyone or society, 2:00:08.840 --> 2:00:09.440 and I don't. 2:00:09.240 --> 2:00:11.640 Think it's a deterrent. I really don't think it's a deterrent. 2:00:11.720 --> 2:00:13.760 Like I don't think when people are committing these crimes, 2:00:13.800 --> 2:00:15.880 they're not like, am I gonna die on death row? 2:00:15.920 --> 2:00:17.760 Like that's just not I don't think it's a deterrent. 2:00:17.800 --> 2:00:19.040 And we didn't talk about this. 2:00:19.240 --> 2:00:21.400 But it's also like so many people are killed and 2:00:21.440 --> 2:00:24.000 then evidence comes out you know that, yeah, they didn't 2:00:24.040 --> 2:00:26.880 do it, and like that's reason enough, right, right. 2:00:27.320 --> 2:00:29.840 So but this is a larger conversation obviously, But. 2:00:30.520 --> 2:00:33.080 How many essays did you write about this in high school? 2:00:33.120 --> 2:00:35.600 This was like I've written a lot. I did do 2:00:35.640 --> 2:00:38.720 a capital punishment essay one time. I think in middle school. God, 2:00:38.760 --> 2:00:40.560 I'd love to get my hands on that. I'm gonna 2:00:40.560 --> 2:00:41.000 see if. 2:00:40.880 --> 2:00:42.440 I can get through some old box that was my 2:00:42.600 --> 2:00:46.080 senior thesis, Hannah. 2:00:46.160 --> 2:00:48.160 We're posting that as a PDF and our mention in 2:00:48.160 --> 2:00:51.520 our stories. Please we're gonna post it, all right. So 2:00:51.600 --> 2:00:53.200 for today's what would this your PEG do? Which is 2:00:53.200 --> 2:00:55.160 you know, our weekly segment where we direct you towards 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:57.520 resources they can give you more information on the subject. 2:00:57.760 --> 2:01:00.720 In today's episode, we thought we'd point you towards a 2:01:00.760 --> 2:01:04.360 book written by Robert Wrestler, the man who interviewed Ed 2:01:04.440 --> 2:01:08.520 Kemper and Tom Shachtman as well. It's called Whoever Fights 2:01:08.600 --> 2:01:12.080 Monsters colon My twenty Years Tracking serial Killers for the. 2:01:12.040 --> 2:01:13.640 FBI, and Robert K. 2:01:13.800 --> 2:01:17.000 Wrestler is the man who invented the term serial killer, 2:01:17.160 --> 2:01:20.200 so definitely interesting to read his words and thoughts on 2:01:20.240 --> 2:01:23.640 the subject if you're a true crime nut, so check 2:01:23.680 --> 2:01:25.680 that out and please join us. 2:01:25.800 --> 2:01:28.600 Next week we will be covering the episode Lessons Learned, 2:01:28.840 --> 2:01:32.960 Season fourteen, episode eight, and as always, those are on 2:01:33.040 --> 2:01:35.400 Hulu and Peacock, or you could check out your local 2:01:35.440 --> 2:01:38.960 library and next time you hear from us, there will 2:01:39.000 --> 2:01:43.040 be a clink a new clink another Baby get ready 2:01:43.920 --> 2:01:45.520 for Baby Gossip. 2:01:45.400 --> 2:01:49.000 A logan I guess technically, but yeah, I refused? Are 2:01:49.040 --> 2:02:00.600 you kidding? Thank you so much, Bye bye. That's Messed 2:02:00.680 --> 2:02:03.320 Up as an Exactly Right production. If you have compliments 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:05.200 you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us 2:02:05.240 --> 2:02:07.360 to cover, shoot us an email at That's Messed Up 2:02:07.400 --> 2:02:08.920 Pod at gmail dot com. 2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:11.640 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 2:02:11.760 --> 2:02:14.280 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 2:02:14.360 --> 2:02:17.080 personally at Karaklank and at glitter Cheese. 2:02:17.440 --> 2:02:20.160 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 2:02:20.240 --> 2:02:20.919 more information. 2:02:21.280 --> 2:02:24.560 Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our 2:02:24.800 --> 2:02:27.680 incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton. 2:02:27.560 --> 2:02:30.640 And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, 2:02:30.800 --> 2:02:33.960 and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly 2:02:34.040 --> 2:02:37.360 Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers 2:02:37.440 --> 2:02:41.280 Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarrif, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly 2:02:41.320 --> 2:02:41.920 Right Media. 2:02:42.040 --> 2:02:46.040 Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, 2:02:46.240 --> 2:02:49.440 or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser 2:02:49.480 --> 2:02:52.800 interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot 2:02:52.800 --> 2:02:56.160 com slash ads done done,