WEBVTT - Gaybraham Lincoln (Rerun!) 0:00:08.285 --> 0:00:13.765 School of Humans. Hello, beautiful filth heads, literally the most 0:00:13.765 --> 0:00:18.165 attractive people who have ever existed. So we're doing a 0:00:18.245 --> 0:00:21.645 repeat episode today, doing her little rerun because I was 0:00:21.645 --> 0:00:23.845 writing the episode for this week and then I went 0:00:23.885 --> 0:00:25.685 back and did some fact checking and. 0:00:25.765 --> 0:00:30.565 Found that there were several errors that then I didn't 0:00:30.565 --> 0:00:33.725 have the time to completely fix. Whoopsies. 0:00:33.885 --> 0:00:36.885 But look at that me being a fact checking I'm 0:00:36.925 --> 0:00:39.285 a journalist, a history journalist indeed. 0:00:40.325 --> 0:00:42.365 But this episode is one of my favorites. 0:00:42.405 --> 0:00:44.445 And I also, as you guys all know since you 0:00:44.485 --> 0:00:47.365 know everything about me, is I also do stand up 0:00:47.725 --> 0:00:50.085 and so I've actually been doing a bit about this 0:00:50.365 --> 0:00:55.045 episode because this is the one about Abraham Lincoln maybe 0:00:55.045 --> 0:01:02.165 being gay. Gabraham Lincoln, Everyone's favorite subject. And this was 0:01:02.165 --> 0:01:05.565 part of a series that I did called Bedfellows Headfellows, 0:01:06.125 --> 0:01:08.205 and where I was like, look at all these various 0:01:08.205 --> 0:01:10.165 people who might have been gay in the past, isn't 0:01:10.205 --> 0:01:13.845 that exciting, And then just really got into outing historical 0:01:13.885 --> 0:01:16.325 figures for a while. But I have been doing the 0:01:16.365 --> 0:01:19.685 stand up bit about this and the joke. You might 0:01:19.685 --> 0:01:22.045 have already heard it on Instagram, which, of course you 0:01:22.085 --> 0:01:24.965 can follow the pod at American Filth pod. But the 0:01:25.965 --> 0:01:29.045 dirty joke I've been doing about Abraham Lincoln being gay is, 0:01:29.885 --> 0:01:32.645 do you guys think when Abraham Lincoln was banging dudes, 0:01:32.685 --> 0:01:35.605 he was wearing his top hat and the guys he 0:01:35.685 --> 0:01:40.125 was banging were wearing bottom hats. So I just wanted 0:01:40.125 --> 0:01:42.125 to share it that with you to have a special 0:01:42.165 --> 0:01:45.525 little treat. But I hope you guys enjoyed the episode. 0:01:45.565 --> 0:01:49.085 We'll be back next week with original content, brand spanking 0:01:49.205 --> 0:01:54.965 news stuff about history. In the meantime, enjoy Abraham Lincoln 0:01:55.285 --> 0:01:58.885 getting down and dirty with some dudes. Cue the theme song, 0:01:59.725 --> 0:02:04.725 wamp wam blamp, wham blamp, blam blamp wam blam. This 0:02:04.765 --> 0:02:07.685 is American philth that. I'm Gabby Watts. Every week I 0:02:07.725 --> 0:02:11.085 tell you a filed the story from American history, and 0:02:11.165 --> 0:02:14.485 this week we got Bedfellows Headfellows, Part two. 0:02:15.525 --> 0:02:16.885 They were just roommates. 0:02:24.965 --> 0:02:32.165 Do do do Do Do Do Do do do do? Okay, Okay. 0:02:32.205 --> 0:02:34.965 I can hear some of you from across the pod. 0:02:35.125 --> 0:02:37.205 I can see I hear what you're saying. Some of 0:02:37.205 --> 0:02:41.125 you are shouting. There's literally no evidence that Abraham Lincoln 0:02:41.165 --> 0:02:42.965 did homosexual heavy petting. 0:02:43.565 --> 0:02:44.165 I get it. 0:02:45.325 --> 0:02:47.965 I will acknowledge that many historians have said there is 0:02:48.125 --> 0:02:53.565 absolutely no way that that happened. The sort of Lincoln 0:02:53.725 --> 0:02:59.325 historical establishment is like, no, that's just wild, wild conjecture 0:02:59.965 --> 0:03:02.885 and just you making assumptions about people you don't. 0:03:02.725 --> 0:03:03.365 Know what's up. 0:03:04.725 --> 0:03:09.485 For example, the one historian was like, some irresponsible authors 0:03:09.605 --> 0:03:15.365 have suggested that Abraham Lincoln was a homosexual. There is 0:03:15.405 --> 0:03:21.685 no evidence for this claim. But the irresponsible author that 0:03:21.685 --> 0:03:26.685 that historian was referring to is probably this guy named c. A. 0:03:27.085 --> 0:03:27.525 Trip. 0:03:29.885 --> 0:03:32.765 He was a writer and a psychologist who studied under 0:03:32.805 --> 0:03:37.925 Alfred Kinsey, you know, the sex psychologist, the Kinsey Scale, etc. 0:03:39.165 --> 0:03:41.765 And Trip worked under him, and he spent most of 0:03:41.805 --> 0:03:45.245 the nineteen seventies being like, hey, I don't think being 0:03:45.325 --> 0:03:49.845 gay is a personality disorder. Trip himself was a gay man. 0:03:50.845 --> 0:03:55.605 He's like, I'm fine, there's nothing wrong with me. But 0:03:55.725 --> 0:03:57.685 he wrote a book that came out in two thousand 0:03:57.725 --> 0:04:02.165 and five called The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln. And 0:04:02.205 --> 0:04:05.245 that's where he summarized his years of research on proving 0:04:05.245 --> 0:04:09.365 that yes, in fact, our log cabin depressed six or 0:04:09.405 --> 0:04:12.765 for President was in fact a little bit gay. 0:04:13.565 --> 0:04:13.805 Yeah. 0:04:13.885 --> 0:04:16.805 Basically, what he's saying Is that the night John Wilkes 0:04:16.805 --> 0:04:20.085 Booth shot Abraham Lincoln in the head. That wasn't the 0:04:20.085 --> 0:04:24.365 first time Lincoln had his brains blown out. Yeah, that's 0:04:24.405 --> 0:04:28.245 a terrible oral sex joke. I'm sorry. Am I canceled now? 0:04:28.325 --> 0:04:29.885 I hope? So I'm tired. 0:04:30.645 --> 0:04:37.645 I want to go live with my mom. 0:04:38.165 --> 0:04:41.965 Hi, Hi, Mom? How are you? I'm good. It sounds 0:04:42.005 --> 0:04:44.525 like your weekend was fun. Oh yeah, it was a 0:04:44.525 --> 0:04:45.925 good time. Uh. 0:04:45.965 --> 0:04:49.645 So, I just made a really horrendous joke on my podcast, Mom, 0:04:49.685 --> 0:04:51.725 and I was just wondering if I get canceled, Is 0:04:51.765 --> 0:04:52.805 it okay if I come and. 0:04:52.725 --> 0:04:57.605 Live with you? Well, as long as you don't tell 0:04:57.605 --> 0:05:00.125 anybody that I live with you? 0:05:01.165 --> 0:05:01.405 Yes? 0:05:02.285 --> 0:05:05.125 What is I embarrassing for you or embarrassing for me? No, 0:05:05.205 --> 0:05:07.885 it's I was being funny. I thought you were recording me. 0:05:08.365 --> 0:05:09.445 I am recording you. 0:05:09.485 --> 0:05:13.925 Mom. Okay, we're just gonna see what works for the podcast. 0:05:14.645 --> 0:05:16.925 Oh well, what would work for the podcast? I would say, 0:05:17.205 --> 0:05:18.725 But of course, honey. 0:05:19.565 --> 0:05:24.245 Well you can say that, or you could also say, no, 0:05:24.605 --> 0:05:26.325 don't get canceled. 0:05:27.685 --> 0:05:33.845 Gabby, don't get canceled. Yeah, that felt really authentic. Okay, 0:05:34.725 --> 0:05:38.045 but if you do, of course you can come live 0:05:38.085 --> 0:05:43.045 with me. Okay, thanks, Mom, you can pick any of those. Okay. 0:05:43.085 --> 0:05:45.925 So the bit didn't really work. So I need to 0:05:45.965 --> 0:05:49.765 get an actor to be my mom. But that might 0:05:49.805 --> 0:05:52.525 be in the next episode. But anyway, back to the 0:05:52.605 --> 0:05:54.765 subject matter at hand. 0:05:55.205 --> 0:05:58.965 Job. So, before C. A. 0:05:59.125 --> 0:06:02.325 Trip had published that book about Lincoln sexuality in two 0:06:02.325 --> 0:06:05.125 thousand and five, he had actually already written a bunch 0:06:05.125 --> 0:06:10.525 of stuff about Lincoln maybe being gay, which really riled 0:06:10.525 --> 0:06:14.765 the feathers of the Lincoln historical establishment, who were like, 0:06:15.005 --> 0:06:21.085 this is poppy cock. Lincoln's cock never popped for the boys. 0:06:22.405 --> 0:06:25.525 But once this argument was brought to the greater public, 0:06:25.925 --> 0:06:30.925 unfortunately Tripp was not there to argue it because he 0:06:30.965 --> 0:06:39.325 died two weeks after finishing this book. Now, what evidence 0:06:39.405 --> 0:06:42.525 do we have that would say that would point to 0:06:43.045 --> 0:06:48.845 that might suggest that Abraham Lincoln was a homosexual. Let's 0:06:48.885 --> 0:06:52.125 take a look at some hot takes in the Gabraham 0:06:52.245 --> 0:06:58.765 Lincoln conspiracy. This first one is just something I thought 0:06:58.765 --> 0:07:04.645 about as a member of the LGBTQ community myself. Let 0:07:04.645 --> 0:07:08.965 me tell you, gay people love to rhyme and then 0:07:09.005 --> 0:07:14.285 think about it. What did Abraham Lincoln do the Emancipation Proclamation? 0:07:16.005 --> 0:07:23.485 Gay also great, but gay. But here's to Trip's. 0:07:23.045 --> 0:07:26.685 More rigorous evidence. And by more rigorous, I mean kind of. 0:07:28.165 --> 0:07:29.885 I think if you read his book, you'll see that 0:07:29.925 --> 0:07:33.045 he's applying a lot of psychological ideas to the past. 0:07:33.125 --> 0:07:35.445 And it's like, yeah, I don't know if it works 0:07:35.565 --> 0:07:40.365 like that. I think you're just making some assumptions. But 0:07:40.485 --> 0:07:43.965 let me tell you the speculation, the conjecture. It is 0:07:44.045 --> 0:07:46.205 so much more exciting to think about than what most 0:07:46.205 --> 0:07:50.365 people say about Abraham Lincoln based on facts and letters 0:07:50.445 --> 0:07:51.445 and blah blah blah. 0:07:51.445 --> 0:07:52.125 Who cares. 0:07:53.365 --> 0:07:56.405 Let's look at human behavior and analyze it in the past. 0:07:56.845 --> 0:07:59.325 This is actually one of my favorite types of history 0:07:59.445 --> 0:08:01.485 because it really is a big part of history is 0:08:01.525 --> 0:08:03.245 that people will go back in time and. 0:08:03.205 --> 0:08:05.885 Be like, who's gay, Let's figure out it out. 0:08:06.405 --> 0:08:08.805 It's this type of history I like to call gay 0:08:09.045 --> 0:08:14.725 or nay. So one thing that Trip points to is 0:08:14.725 --> 0:08:18.565 that when Abraham Lincoln was a much younger man, he 0:08:18.685 --> 0:08:22.365 had written some satirical poetry in a manuscript he called 0:08:22.405 --> 0:08:27.565 the Chronicles of Ruben. That's right, again, he's doing poetry, 0:08:27.605 --> 0:08:31.885 and again that's rhyming, and that's usually gay. But within 0:08:32.005 --> 0:08:37.525 the Chronicles of Ruben, Lincoln actually refers to homosexuality. 0:08:38.525 --> 0:08:40.685 He wrote, for Ruben. 0:08:40.405 --> 0:08:43.365 And Charles have married two girls, but Billy has married 0:08:43.405 --> 0:08:46.325 a boy. The girls he had tried on every side, 0:08:46.365 --> 0:08:47.925 but none he could get to agree. 0:08:48.405 --> 0:08:49.165 All was in vain. 0:08:49.245 --> 0:08:55.645 He went home again, and since that he's married to Natty, 0:08:55.845 --> 0:08:58.765 look at that Billy and Natty. I send them my 0:08:58.885 --> 0:09:03.525 best nuptial regards. And the reason Trip included this in 0:09:03.565 --> 0:09:06.485 his book was that he was like, hey, this proves 0:09:06.525 --> 0:09:09.165 that even when Lincoln was younger, he had an awareness 0:09:09.245 --> 0:09:15.445 that homosexual people existed. But also trips like how did 0:09:15.445 --> 0:09:18.445 he know that they existed? Like why would that occur 0:09:18.565 --> 0:09:21.805 to him? Maybe it's because he himself was having some 0:09:21.925 --> 0:09:24.885 gay thoughts and he liked the idea of two men 0:09:24.925 --> 0:09:30.405 getting married. Also, Trip points to this quote from Lincoln's stepmom, 0:09:30.885 --> 0:09:32.725 who said at some point that when he was younger, 0:09:32.765 --> 0:09:36.405 Lincoln was not very fond of girls, and then when 0:09:36.445 --> 0:09:39.645 he got older, Lincoln had a pretty hard time talking 0:09:39.685 --> 0:09:40.085 to women. 0:09:40.205 --> 0:09:41.405 He wasn't a good flirt. 0:09:42.845 --> 0:09:44.805 So, I mean, we could also just read the poem 0:09:44.845 --> 0:09:47.165 as he just really loves hanging out with the boys 0:09:47.565 --> 0:09:49.405 because he doesn't know what to do with the goals 0:09:50.365 --> 0:09:55.725 but Trip's like, no, he's gay. Some other historians have 0:09:55.925 --> 0:10:00.325 also kind of echoed this idea, where they've said things like, oh, 0:10:00.725 --> 0:10:05.285 Lincoln in general seemed pretty ambivalent about marrying Mary Todd, 0:10:06.765 --> 0:10:09.885 like their courtship was really painful, and like it was 0:10:09.885 --> 0:10:14.525 a real will they won't they situation. Lincoln actually called 0:10:14.565 --> 0:10:18.165 off the engagement and then had this huge mental breakdown, 0:10:21.245 --> 0:10:23.845 and you know, we don't know exactly why he did that, 0:10:24.085 --> 0:10:28.685 but you know, Trip, he's coming back in being like, hey, 0:10:28.725 --> 0:10:30.925 maybe the reason he called it off is because he's gay. 0:10:31.885 --> 0:10:34.645 And Trip's also like, yeah, Lincoln was depressed all the time, 0:10:34.685 --> 0:10:38.005 he had all these bouts of depression. Maybe the reason 0:10:38.005 --> 0:10:40.805 he was so depressed was because he was gay. And 0:10:40.925 --> 0:10:43.445 let's just say, the eighteen forties not the best time 0:10:43.485 --> 0:10:43.925 to be gay. 0:10:45.245 --> 0:10:46.965 So yeah. Throughout his book, Trip sort of. 0:10:46.925 --> 0:10:51.125 Points to these random little moments where he's. 0:10:51.005 --> 0:10:55.485 Like, hmm, that's suspicious. That's suspicious. 0:10:56.405 --> 0:10:59.285 But the main evidence that he relied on for this 0:10:59.445 --> 0:11:03.685 book was that Lincoln had very close friendships with men, 0:11:04.365 --> 0:11:08.485 and Trip says, Hmmm, they might have been a little 0:11:08.565 --> 0:11:14.365 too close, because here's the tea. 0:11:14.485 --> 0:11:15.565 I've said it many. 0:11:15.365 --> 0:11:18.485 Times already, but back in the day, men were sharing beds, 0:11:19.205 --> 0:11:23.245 so that was normal. But what was abnormal was sharing 0:11:23.285 --> 0:11:26.845 a bed with a man for an extended period of time. 0:11:28.165 --> 0:11:30.005 And Lincoln, well, he. 0:11:30.085 --> 0:11:34.565 Shared a bed with his best friend, Joshua Speed. Not 0:11:34.685 --> 0:11:39.485 for a night, not for a week, but for four years. 0:11:41.565 --> 0:11:47.725 We'll be right back after these soothing advertisements. When Abraham 0:11:47.765 --> 0:11:51.645 Lincoln was twenty eight and eighteen thirty seven, he moved 0:11:51.685 --> 0:11:55.605 to Springfield, Illinois, and that's where he met twenty three 0:11:55.645 --> 0:12:00.325 year old Joshua Speed. The reason Lincoln moved there was 0:12:00.365 --> 0:12:03.125 to pursue his studies in a career as a lawyer. 0:12:04.165 --> 0:12:07.125 He had recently failed as a store owner and was 0:12:07.205 --> 0:12:10.285 in a bunch of debt. You know, he grew up 0:12:10.325 --> 0:12:13.805 poor in that log cabin and hardly had a penny 0:12:13.845 --> 0:12:16.605 to his name. I mean he didn't know it at 0:12:16.605 --> 0:12:19.205 the time, but soon every single penny would just have 0:12:19.285 --> 0:12:20.005 his name on it. 0:12:20.885 --> 0:12:22.285 I mean, at least his face, I guess. 0:12:23.685 --> 0:12:29.205 So anyway, Lincoln got on a borrowed horse headed to Springfield, 0:12:29.325 --> 0:12:36.285 ready to try to make something of himself. Joshua Speed, 0:12:36.325 --> 0:12:38.685 on the other hand, came from a rich family in 0:12:38.765 --> 0:12:43.285 Kentucky and was a bona fide gentleman, and at that 0:12:43.405 --> 0:12:46.965 time Speed was also trying to make something of himself. 0:12:47.605 --> 0:12:50.325 He was the owner of a general store in Springfield, 0:12:51.725 --> 0:12:55.965 and Lincoln walked in one day looking for betting. He 0:12:56.085 --> 0:12:58.885 was like, how much are the furnishings for a single bed? 0:13:00.485 --> 0:13:03.685 And Speed looked up the price of the mattress, the blankets, 0:13:03.765 --> 0:13:06.765 the sheets. He was like, it's going to be about 0:13:06.805 --> 0:13:11.565 seventeen dollars, and oh boy, was Lincoln unable. 0:13:11.125 --> 0:13:16.485 To pay that. Speed wrote about this encounter many times, 0:13:16.525 --> 0:13:17.485 and here's what he said. 0:13:18.125 --> 0:13:21.205 Lincoln said that that was pretty cheap enough, but small 0:13:21.245 --> 0:13:23.685 as the sum was, he was unable to pay it. 0:13:24.285 --> 0:13:26.725 But if I would credit him till Christmas and his 0:13:26.845 --> 0:13:34.205 experiment as a lawyer was a success, he would pay, then, 0:13:34.365 --> 0:13:37.965 saying in the saddest tone, if I fail in this, 0:13:38.245 --> 0:13:40.565 I do not know that I can ever pay you. 0:13:42.525 --> 0:13:44.685 I looked up, and I think now that I had 0:13:44.725 --> 0:13:49.245 never seen a sadder face. I said to him, you 0:13:49.365 --> 0:13:53.725 seem to be so pained at contracting so small a debt. 0:13:54.485 --> 0:13:56.565 I think I can suggest a plan by which you 0:13:56.605 --> 0:13:58.045 can avoid the debt. 0:13:58.165 --> 0:14:00.485 And at the same time attain your end. 0:14:01.525 --> 0:14:04.205 I have a large room with a double bed, upstairs, 0:14:04.645 --> 0:14:06.925 which you are very welcome to share with me. 0:14:08.125 --> 0:14:12.725 Where is your room, said he? Upstairs, said I. 0:14:13.805 --> 0:14:17.245 Pointing to a pair of winding stairs which led from 0:14:17.285 --> 0:14:21.605 the store to my room. Lincoln took his saddle bags 0:14:21.605 --> 0:14:25.005 in his arm, went upstairs and set them down on 0:14:25.085 --> 0:14:28.925 the floor, and came down with the most changed countenance, 0:14:29.365 --> 0:14:34.925 beaming with pleasure. He exclaimed, Well, Speed, I am moved. 0:14:36.805 --> 0:14:41.445 Doesn't this sound like the beginning of a porno? Poor young, 0:14:41.485 --> 0:14:45.125 ambitious man wants to be lawyer but can't afford a room, 0:14:45.245 --> 0:14:50.085 so sexy rich store clerk suggest his own bed. Yeah, 0:14:50.125 --> 0:14:52.765 it's not the most fluid of titles, but don't worry. 0:14:52.805 --> 0:14:55.525 In the porno there will be a lot of fluid. 0:14:58.685 --> 0:15:01.725 So yeah, Speed often told this version of the story 0:15:01.765 --> 0:15:07.605 of how the two met, But trip Our our historian psychologist, 0:15:08.485 --> 0:15:10.405 He's like, when I read this, I don't think it 0:15:10.445 --> 0:15:16.125 actually happened like that, because apparently Speed was already aware 0:15:16.165 --> 0:15:19.605 of Abraham Lincoln, because he had seen him the previous 0:15:19.645 --> 0:15:23.165 summer in eighteen thirty six, when Lincoln had given a 0:15:23.205 --> 0:15:26.765 speech and had basically roasted one of his opponents very well, 0:15:27.725 --> 0:15:30.205 you know, so that's sus Like, why didn't speed mention 0:15:30.325 --> 0:15:34.805 to Abraham Lincoln that he had seen him before. Trip's like, 0:15:34.845 --> 0:15:38.645 I mean, it's probably because he desired Lincoln and thought 0:15:38.685 --> 0:15:43.165 he would be a great bedfellow, so he was like, yes, Lincoln, 0:15:43.165 --> 0:15:43.965 come into my bed. 0:15:44.045 --> 0:15:44.685 That's fine. 0:15:45.845 --> 0:15:48.845 And as for the whole story of Lincoln going up 0:15:48.885 --> 0:15:52.685 to the room by himself and putting his saddle bags down, 0:15:53.205 --> 0:15:54.525 Trip was like, no one. 0:15:54.365 --> 0:15:55.125 Would do that. 0:15:55.325 --> 0:15:57.605 Speed would have shown him the room and then they 0:15:57.605 --> 0:16:00.565 would have looked at the bed, and then they might 0:16:00.565 --> 0:16:03.005 have looked at each other and been like, hmmm, I 0:16:03.005 --> 0:16:05.885 guess we can sleep in this bud together, with like 0:16:05.925 --> 0:16:11.405 a sexual implication. Trip also said that Speed's invitation for 0:16:11.525 --> 0:16:14.885 Lincoln to stay it didn't have any of the usual 0:16:15.005 --> 0:16:17.085 qualifiers that you would have, like, oh, yeah, you could 0:16:17.125 --> 0:16:20.765 stay for a few days or until you get settled. Instead, 0:16:20.805 --> 0:16:23.685 it was just immediately like, yeah, come live with me 0:16:23.765 --> 0:16:25.085 and sleep in my bed. 0:16:25.165 --> 0:16:25.765 My dude. 0:16:27.405 --> 0:16:30.605 Trip was like, who the heck would just invite a 0:16:30.685 --> 0:16:34.245 random guy to sleep in their bed for an unlimited 0:16:34.285 --> 0:16:38.885 amount of time unless they were trying to bone And 0:16:38.925 --> 0:16:41.725 then Trip also makes this other point. He's like, well, honestly, 0:16:41.765 --> 0:16:45.925 that bed they slept in was pretty small, and Abraham 0:16:46.005 --> 0:16:51.045 Winkin was pretty big, so skin to skin contact. 0:16:50.685 --> 0:16:52.005 Would have been inevitable. 0:16:52.805 --> 0:16:55.285 And you know, once you touch skin, you might as 0:16:55.325 --> 0:16:58.565 well touch other skins for skins. 0:16:58.605 --> 0:17:01.645 That's what I'm saying. Maybe they were circumcised. I don't know. 0:17:02.605 --> 0:17:06.925 Someone probably does know. If you do, pervert. 0:17:08.045 --> 0:17:12.165 And again I will say that the Abraham Lincoln historical establishment, 0:17:12.205 --> 0:17:16.485 they're like, no, they weren't boning. They were just boys 0:17:16.565 --> 0:17:21.605 in the bed. They're just good friends. But there's this 0:17:21.645 --> 0:17:23.925 other historian, Thomas A. Foster, and he does a lot 0:17:23.925 --> 0:17:27.445 of work on the history of sexuality in America. 0:17:28.045 --> 0:17:31.125 What he says about Speed and Lincoln sharing. 0:17:30.765 --> 0:17:34.765 A bed and becoming close friends, he said, without a doubt, 0:17:34.805 --> 0:17:38.405 given the cultural acceptance of close bonds between members of 0:17:38.445 --> 0:17:43.645 the same sex, individuals had the opportunity for private physical 0:17:43.725 --> 0:17:48.685 intimacy because their public bond would not have raised much concern. 0:17:49.885 --> 0:17:53.685 That's right, He's saying if they wanted to fuck, they could. 0:17:54.605 --> 0:17:57.525 And Speed himself said at one point about their friendship 0:17:58.165 --> 0:18:03.605 that no men were ever so intimate. Like does he 0:18:03.725 --> 0:18:07.925 just mean BFFs for life or does he mean I've 0:18:07.925 --> 0:18:13.405 been intimate because I've been up in those guts. So 0:18:13.485 --> 0:18:18.285 after they became bedfellows and became friends and maybe headfellows 0:18:18.325 --> 0:18:21.925 as well. Speed was the one who helped Lincoln get 0:18:21.925 --> 0:18:26.765 involved with socializing and society and stuff like that. They 0:18:26.805 --> 0:18:30.725 ran a discussion group called the young Men's Lyceum. This 0:18:30.885 --> 0:18:32.765 was in the back of the store, and they gathered 0:18:32.765 --> 0:18:34.605 a bunch of other men and they would talk about 0:18:34.645 --> 0:18:38.445 ideas and stuff. And then Speed also taught Lincoln how 0:18:38.525 --> 0:18:42.845 to flirt with women, because Speed he was very good 0:18:42.885 --> 0:18:47.285 at flirting. In fact, later on Mary Todd Lincoln called 0:18:47.405 --> 0:18:51.285 Speed one of the birds of passage. She said of 0:18:51.365 --> 0:18:55.365 him he had an ever changing heart, basically calling him 0:18:55.365 --> 0:18:59.725 a little slut. But yeah, Mary Todd was one of 0:18:59.765 --> 0:19:04.525 those ladies who Speed helped Lincoln flirt with, and her 0:19:04.565 --> 0:19:08.685 and Lincoln's relationship was very frustrating for her. Lincoln was 0:19:08.725 --> 0:19:10.725 sending a bunch of mixed messages. 0:19:11.685 --> 0:19:12.525 It was rocky. 0:19:14.485 --> 0:19:18.885 But anyway, after all this socializing, Lincoln and Speed were 0:19:18.885 --> 0:19:22.445 still sharing a bed. And remember they shared a bed 0:19:22.565 --> 0:19:26.885 for four years. But when their bedfellowing came to an end, 0:19:27.365 --> 0:19:32.725 that's when Lincoln started unraveling. Speed moved back to Kentucky 0:19:32.765 --> 0:19:37.325 in early eighteen forty one, and then Lincoln called off 0:19:37.325 --> 0:19:41.845 his engagement with Mary Todd. Are these two things related, 0:19:41.885 --> 0:19:44.325 I don't know, But what we know is that Lincoln 0:19:44.485 --> 0:19:48.525 was very distraught, so Speed invited him to come, say, 0:19:48.525 --> 0:19:54.005 with his family in Kentucky. Meanwhile, while Speed had been 0:19:54.045 --> 0:19:57.485 in Kentucky already, he had started courting this woman named 0:19:57.525 --> 0:20:00.965 Fanny Henning, and he was like, Hey, Lincoln, I need 0:20:01.005 --> 0:20:03.005 you to meet this lady so that you can see 0:20:03.005 --> 0:20:04.685 if it would be a good idea to like court 0:20:04.765 --> 0:20:08.285 her and then like maybe marry her. It seems that 0:20:08.365 --> 0:20:11.125 Lincoln was like, yeah, she's a good person. 0:20:11.245 --> 0:20:14.125 I guess because Speed. 0:20:13.925 --> 0:20:18.165 And Hinting got engaged, and apparently Lincoln had a great 0:20:18.165 --> 0:20:20.965 time in Kentucky and it helped him get back on 0:20:21.005 --> 0:20:24.685 his feed after all of his mental health problems. Then 0:20:24.805 --> 0:20:28.765 at the end of Lincoln's stay, he and Speed didn't part. 0:20:28.925 --> 0:20:32.005 What happened is that Speed apparently had like the flu 0:20:32.125 --> 0:20:34.725 or something, but he was still determined to go on 0:20:34.765 --> 0:20:38.285 this boat trip with Lincoln. You know, just two dudes 0:20:38.325 --> 0:20:42.045 out there fishing. Nothing gay has ever happened in that situation. 0:20:44.245 --> 0:20:46.805 And then after they did that trip, then Speed went 0:20:46.885 --> 0:20:50.205 back to Springfield with Lincoln and they rented a room 0:20:50.285 --> 0:20:53.845 together and then Speed just stayed there for months, even 0:20:53.845 --> 0:20:58.605 though his betrothed was in Kentucky. Speed left Springfield for 0:20:58.645 --> 0:21:03.165 the second time in January eighteen forty two because he had. 0:21:03.085 --> 0:21:03.925 To go and get married. 0:21:05.805 --> 0:21:08.245 Now, some historians are like, well, maybe Speed went to 0:21:08.285 --> 0:21:10.485 go hang out with Lincoln because he was really anxious 0:21:10.525 --> 0:21:13.645 about getting married. You know, he was nervous, he needed 0:21:13.645 --> 0:21:14.245 a friend. 0:21:15.845 --> 0:21:16.845 But still it's. 0:21:16.685 --> 0:21:20.445 Suspicious staying in the same room together for months right 0:21:20.525 --> 0:21:30.285 before Speed was getting married. Sus sus usparun pawn now 0:21:30.365 --> 0:21:33.405 Speed and Lincoln, they sent a lot of letters back 0:21:33.445 --> 0:21:36.765 and forth. So of course people have perused those letters, 0:21:36.805 --> 0:21:40.765 and some of them are quite interesting for this topic 0:21:40.845 --> 0:21:43.645 we are speaking about, because when you look at the 0:21:43.645 --> 0:21:48.365 tone of how Lincoln writes, it's filled with like yearning 0:21:48.445 --> 0:21:55.845 and insecurity, and it just feels very emotional, very sensual 0:21:55.925 --> 0:22:02.525 in a way. For example, there's one letter dated February thirteenth, 0:22:02.605 --> 0:22:06.605 eighteen forty two, and Lincoln wrote this to Speed just 0:22:06.645 --> 0:22:10.565 a few days after Speed had gotten married to Fanny Hinning. 0:22:11.885 --> 0:22:15.885 And in that letter he says, quote, you know, my 0:22:16.085 --> 0:22:20.125 desire to befriend you is everlasting, that I will never 0:22:20.285 --> 0:22:25.485 cease while I know how to do anything I do. Finally, 0:22:25.525 --> 0:22:30.285 hope that you will never again need any comfort from abroad. 0:22:32.325 --> 0:22:36.965 Comfort from abroad? You say, what kind of comfort? But 0:22:37.045 --> 0:22:41.805 it does seem that Speed and Lincoln had discussed at 0:22:41.845 --> 0:22:45.765 some point that they were both nervous about having sex 0:22:45.845 --> 0:22:49.405 with women. They're like, we don't know how to do it. 0:22:50.005 --> 0:22:51.685 I'm nervous that it's not gonna work. 0:22:51.965 --> 0:22:52.725 What do you do? 0:22:54.325 --> 0:22:56.885 So even if they aren't gay, they might have spent 0:22:57.005 --> 0:23:00.605 those many months together at the end of eighteen forty 0:23:00.645 --> 0:23:03.165 one just trying to figure out how to bang a 0:23:03.205 --> 0:23:07.805 woman that in fact is not very gay. That is 0:23:07.845 --> 0:23:10.365 not very gay of them at all. At the end 0:23:10.365 --> 0:23:14.165 of the letter, Abraham Lincoln says something that's pretty sus 0:23:14.685 --> 0:23:18.125 I would desire you to give my particular respects to Fanny, 0:23:18.645 --> 0:23:20.965 but perhaps you will not wish her to know you 0:23:21.045 --> 0:23:24.565 have received this, lest she should desire to see it. 0:23:25.445 --> 0:23:31.485 Write me whenever you have leisure yours forever A Lincoln ps. 0:23:32.165 --> 0:23:38.445 I have been quite a man since you left. Okay, 0:23:38.485 --> 0:23:41.805 because this is suspicious because he's like, hey, maybe don't 0:23:41.845 --> 0:23:43.685 let Fanny read this letter, and. 0:23:43.605 --> 0:23:45.365 So like, why would it be bad for Fanny to 0:23:45.365 --> 0:23:46.005 read this letter. 0:23:46.045 --> 0:23:50.605 What is it is the comfort talking about boning? Did 0:23:50.605 --> 0:23:53.605 she have suspicions about them having a relationship that was 0:23:53.645 --> 0:23:56.925 more than just BFFs? Or you know, you can do 0:23:57.045 --> 0:23:59.565 the other route too, being like maybe he doesn't want 0:23:59.645 --> 0:24:02.165 his wife to know that he's nervous about having sex 0:24:02.165 --> 0:24:05.885 with her or has any sort of anxiety about their relationship. Fine, 0:24:05.925 --> 0:24:09.085 you could read it that way, but that's less fun. 0:24:10.485 --> 0:24:13.445 In another letter that Lincoln wrote a few days later, 0:24:14.325 --> 0:24:17.285 In this letter, again it seems that Speed is nervous 0:24:17.325 --> 0:24:21.085 about consummating his marriage with Fanny. 0:24:21.965 --> 0:24:24.285 But then there's this odd passage in this letter. 0:24:24.645 --> 0:24:29.565 Lincoln says, you say that something indescribably horrible and alarming 0:24:29.645 --> 0:24:32.685 still haunts you. You will not say that three months 0:24:32.685 --> 0:24:35.565 from now I will venture when your nerves once get steady, 0:24:35.645 --> 0:24:39.445 now the whole trouble will be over forever. Nor should 0:24:39.485 --> 0:24:43.205 you become impatient at there being even very slow and 0:24:43.285 --> 0:24:47.045 becoming steady again. You say you much fear that that 0:24:47.165 --> 0:24:50.725 elysium of which you have dreamed so much is never 0:24:50.765 --> 0:24:54.845 to be realized. Well, if it shall not, I dare 0:24:54.925 --> 0:24:57.045 swear it will not be the fault of her, who 0:24:57.125 --> 0:25:00.685 is now your wife. I now have no doubt it 0:25:00.765 --> 0:25:03.605 is the peculiar misfortune of both you and me to 0:25:03.725 --> 0:25:08.005 dream dreams of elysium fun exceeding all that anything earthly 0:25:08.085 --> 0:25:12.485 can realize. So what is this elysium? Is it just 0:25:12.525 --> 0:25:16.765