WEBVTT - Kicking Off Big with Michael Kassan 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:11.080 Welcome for the premiere of the newly Possible Now podcast, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.600 where we dive deep with the most influential minds shaping 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:20.040 the future of media marketing and technology. Today, we have 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:24.200 an absolute powerhouse of the industry with us, a visionary demiker, 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.440 a strategic mastermind, and a true connector of global leaders. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.480 My guest has an unmatched talent for recognizing the relationships 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.600 and synergies needed to make things happen, and it's no 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:40.000 surprise that the core values of his company, consulting, convening 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.680 and co investing are the foundation of his success. He's 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.360 the founder and CEO of Three C Ventures, a company 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.479 at the cutting edge of media marketing and technology innovation. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:53.360 You may know him as the force behind some of 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.440 the most groundbreaking partnerships in the business, a trusted advisor 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.400 to Fortune five hundred executives, and a game changer who 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.479 sees opportunities where others see challenges. He's a longtime friend, 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.240 a business partner, a mentor, and also the chairman of Possible. 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:15.040 Please welcome the one and only Michael Kessen. Welcome Michael. 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.520 Thank you Christian, and you know it's always difficult to 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.319 hear you describe my evil twin brother, but I'd love 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:23.240 to meet him one day. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.360 I think you already did seven times. 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.560 Well you're very kind, Christian, And I'll underscore one thing. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.640 I think our friendship now is you know, pushing twenty years, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.440 but certainly more than fifteen. And it's been a very 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.039 enjoyable friendship and partnership. And you know, having had the 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.119 chance to work together now for a couple of years 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.280 on Possible and before that just on an other industry 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.120 ten polls to Mexico, et cetera. I consider you a 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.720 friend and a partner and it's nice to share some 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:56.280 time with you. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:58.840 Thank you so much. And as I said at the beginning, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.080 this is a premiere of our new podcast, and I 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.640 couldn't think about you know, somebody better than you being 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.680 my guest, but I will do it with every production 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.440 that I would love to talk about or ask a 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.960 personal question at the beginning before we dive into the 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.800 incredible work you're doing and the transformative changes in our industry. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.359 So let's take a step back for a second. You've 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.720 closed deals in boardrooms all over the world, but let's 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:27.880 get real. What's the most ridiculous or let's say, unexpected 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.600 place you've ever made a business deal? Was it on 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.560 the beach, whether the bathroom, whether the golf course, which 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.120 is quite common in today's Can you share or do 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.360 you want to share anything? Nobody knows that now. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:41.640 Well, you know you made it too easy for me 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.000 when I just started practicing law. And this is probably 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.560 on the hitting of too much information for our visitors, 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:51.200 But you did ask was it in a bathroom? I 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.160 was doing what one does in a stand up mode 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.760 in the men's room, and I got a pretty big 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.800 piece of business right there on the spot. When I 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:04.680 was a young lawyer, the guy next to me asked 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.480 me a question, and as one does, I was looking 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.160 straight ahead and he asked me a question which turned 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.480 into a significant piece of business when I was a 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.840 very young lawyer. In fact, Christian, it was the first 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:22.000 week that I was practicing law when this happened, and 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.440 it unleashed a lot of new business and it kind 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.799 of was a game changer for me and career wise. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.639 And that did happen in the men's room, So nothing 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:34.640 else untoward but the new business opportunity. And you know 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.760 you've asked odd places to have deals closed. Yes, I've 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.880 done plenty of business on a ski lift. Yeah, so 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.360 another place, not hopefully not what we're skiing down the mountain, 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.240 but just writing up you know, God knows. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.360 And in today's time, you know, is dock you sign 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.080 and all the digital kind of signages. I mean, it 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.400 could be really everywhere, right, But it's interesting that you 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.280 said it was just at the beginning of your career 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.320 that you already started making deals. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.840 Well, I didn't know that that was going to be 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.080 the hub of new business in the men's room, but 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.040 it turned out. It turned out to be a good story. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.240 And I can even tell you the name of the 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:15.360 guy was Leonard Levigne that I remember. Yeah, after I 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.920 finished my business, I went back to the office because 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.120 I didn't know the answers to the questions. But I 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:22.480 was part of a law firm already, and I said 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.080 to some of the senior folks, I said, I need 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.200 some help. I got a live one here. And that's 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.280 what happened. So I guess that's as good a story 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:30.520 as like. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.920 That's a great story to kick off, and I'm sure 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.279 not everybody knows this part of your career in life. 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.039 So that was, you know, a good start. And let's 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:45.480 start with another obvious but no less exciting question, which 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.640 is about three S Adventures. Let's look ahead of it. Threeadventures. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.280 I think it's fair to say it's still in its 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.520 early days, but it's already making ways. What's your vision 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.560 for the company over the next few years and how 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.200 do you see it shaping the industry? 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.360 That you asked me? The you of all people asked 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.440 me this question, Christian, the first time I publicly talked 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.800 about three C Ventures was it possible? Last April? I 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.080 hadn't really formed it. I hadn't formed it yet, but 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.839 I was clearly contemplating it and had already identified its 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.120 primary purpose, if you will. When I was being interviewed 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:24.080 for that keynot last year, the question was Michael, what's next? 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:28.160 And as you kind of ponder that from my perspective, 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.839 I said, well, what I'd say, which is consistent with 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.240 how I view it now. I want to continue to 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.159 add value to an industry that I love and that 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:40.320 I cherish, and I want to do that through the 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.240 lens of the three c's, through the lens of consulting, convening, 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.600 and co investing. As you said, consistent with what I've 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.400 done over the last twenty plus years on the consultative 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.800 side of the business, and I want to underscore to 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:59.560 the industry that I cherish and especially at the inflection 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.520 point we find ourselves at now more than ever. It 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.400 kind of reminds me of the inflection point when I 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.800 started my previous company. It was the dot com dot 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.760 com moment where everything was on the hard eight, if 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:17.080 you will, in Las Vegas jargon, and lots of problems 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.479 were being solved that weren't needing solving, and that was 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.200 the dot com implosion, really the explosion, and the implosion 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.359 one could argue where at a similar point now with 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:32.120 AI and whatever and whoever and however, And I'm certain 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.560 we'll talk about that later in this conversation, but it's 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.160 a similar sort of inflection point. And I think experience 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:46.360 and history and knowledge and understanding are critical at this moment, 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.920 which is an inflection point. And I think that you know, 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:58.360 I'm fortunate and blessed equally to have this opportunity, and 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.839 you know, the good fortune of it, Christian is several 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.400 months in now, three C is creating real traction in 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.360 the marketplace and solving real problems and opportunities and creating 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.440 alignment in places where it's not as obvious to others perhaps. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.880 Yeah. I mean you've mentioned you are now a couple 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.440 of months into the business with the new company. So 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.160 using these three principles you've mentioned how they're guiding your work. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.040 Can you describe the impact you already achieve with three cventures? 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.480 So what was one of the different Yeah, when you 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.400 say impact, you know the best way Listen. I don't 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.760 know the ripple effect of what we're doing in the 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.040 market other than that stuff I can touch and feel. 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.800 But you know, a deal that we created, participated in 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.960 and worked three diligently on was at the end of 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.320 last year and you would have seen that Media Ocean 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:55.320 acquired Innovid in an important technology deal. We were fortunate 0:07:55.360 --> 0:08:00.200 to be diligence partners with the ownership and all, so 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:05.400 then partnered with both from basically a merchant banking perspective 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:10.600 Christian if I'm describing it, but also co invested in 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:14.720 the spirit of the name with the consortium of holding 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:21.200 companies that participated with the Omnicom, WPP and IPG investing 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.920 into Media Ocean. So first Media Ocean and Innovate and 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:29.600 that's an important deal in the technology landscape. And the 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.080 tech stack, if you will, and very important, and then 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.840 having the whole three of the holding companies become owners, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:41.520 if you will, and as well myself in business with 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.960 your largest service provider. That's a pretty good story to 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.720 be telling in terms of marketplace impact, I hope. And 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.000 the general strategy and direction that we've been giving, and 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.400 some of it came through the lens of ces with 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.679 some of the speaking opportunities that we were involved in 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.560 just talking about i'd like to say, not just talking 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.360 about where the industry is going, but helping influence where 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:08.400 the industry is going. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.760 So in other words, with three ventures you not necessarily 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.120 open new doors, but there are new connections you can 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.240 create with these modern version of this. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.679 Oh no, there's new No, No, Christian, you know, I've 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:27.240 been asked frequently, what's the difference between my previous company 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.880 and three c I mean, one wise ass answer I 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.480 could say is Michael Cassen, that's that's the difference. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.559 That's for sure of the case. Yes, yeah, But. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.400 In point of fact, I'm not sure it has to 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.320 be different. It would continue to morph if it were 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:45.760 the same. 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:46.640 Right. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:50.360 But see, I have the advantage, Christian, of having created 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:56.520 the previous company id eated, strategized and put on the map. 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:02.480 So I kind of know the game play for the playbook, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.800 if you will, and I'm just finding ways where I 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.480 would be modifying and tweaking that playbook no matter what. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.840 That's for sure. That's for sure. As part of your 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:16.120 consultancy or your consulting job, etc. Is that you deal 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.400 with c suite for a long time, especially with cmos, 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.360 and we all see a lot of discussions also on stages, 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:24.600 on the possible stages as well in the last two 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.600 years about the future and the changing role of cemos. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.320 In your view, what are the most critical skills and 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.480 quantities today, simo need to thrive in this area of 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:39.319 rapid change. Is it so much changing like the environment or. 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.040 Oh no, would I'd say I've been consistent with this 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:43.920 for several years. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:45.000 Yeah. Yeah. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.120 The morphing of the chief Marketing Officer with the chief 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.520 information or the Chief Technology officer is an important consideration 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.320 today and for the last i'd say ten years, the 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:02.120 role easily maybe fifteen years. The role of the CMO 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:10.280 takes on more and more need for technological capability and 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:14.160 the role of the CIO or the CTO takes on 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.840 more marketing. In other words, the way I dumb it 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.400 down for myself, because that's how I. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.880 Have to do it, is a chief. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.600 Marketing officer is making more technology decisions than ever, and 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.480 a chief technology officer is making more marketing decisions than ever, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.840 So the two have to come together. That's I think 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.960 important and as well something that I've been banging the 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.360 drum on for now going on two and a half years. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.560 At a FORB CMO conference, I was asked the question 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.280 by Seth Matlins, which I think is a provocative question 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.400 and I continue to focus on it, which is what 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:53.800 does the CEO not know about the role of the CMO? 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.520 And therein is the issue. One thing I always ask 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.440 a CMO is what's your job title? Is just CMO 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:04.600 or Chief Marketing and Growth? Is it Chief Marketing and Product? 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.560 Is it Chief marketing and Communications? It might be anyone 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.400 or all of the above, and if so, is that 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.560 consistent with what your boss thinks your job is? And 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.559 a key element and again this isn't a new dialogue 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.440 for me. If you're given the title of chief Marketing 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:29.000 and Growth, for example, and many are, or in some 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.200 cases your chief growth officer and marketing reports up to you, 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:37.199 so you're not necessarily chief marketing, but the the chief 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.480 marketing officer reports to you. You better make sure that 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.079 you've got the levers to be able to deliver on growth, 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.880 because if you've given the title, you want to make 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:51.000 sure you can actually deliver growth. And that's why it 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.840 becomes more and more important that your boss, whoever your 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.280 boss is in the C suite, understands your job so 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.640 that they give you the right tools and levers that 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.040 you can pull and execute to do what you have 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.080 to do. Right, But I hope that answers your question. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.000 Yes it does. There was one missing in your scripture, 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.480 which is a CFO. And because marketing is so much 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.040 more data driven, is then the CFO coming into play 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:17.520 as well? 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.439 Or well, it's not only that it's more results driven. 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.800 It's not only that it's more data driven. You're correct, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.400 But today, and that's a very important point, but the 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.280 CMO isn't being asked to have the CFO capability. But 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.800 it's an interesting point you make. I tell ad tech 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.000 and martech companies all the time. Right now you're not 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.720 just pitching anymore just to the CMO. You're pitching to 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.800 the CFO and to procurement, but the CFOs and more 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:50.120 and more in those conversations as well. The difference is you, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.720 as a CMO aren't being asked to think like a 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:57.240 CFO as much as you are like a CTO, whereas 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.120 you need the CFO at your side. So I turn 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.199 this table and say to add Tech in mar tech companies, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.280 you better make sure when you're pitching brand you know XYZ, 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.440 you're also bearing in mind that you're going to be 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.000 talking to the CFO. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.560 Right right, Be honest, was there ever a moment when 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.960 you thought, in your conversations over years with cemos, when 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.239 you thought I'd actually love to be a SEMO myself 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.200 or was that never an option and you preferred staying 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:28.840 on the strategic metal level. 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.640 You know, when I've advised rock stars, I kind of 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.480 think I'd like to be the rock star, but I 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.720 haven't thought about that when i'm you are you are? No, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.920 I don't mean that. You know, when I interview a 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.440 good song and dance man or talk to somebody like that, 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.760 I may want to be doing their job, but I 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.720 haven't felt that way about the CMO job. No. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.440 Well, I don't want to share too much secrets. You 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.400 know what we shared. I think it was two years ago, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.760 on the day before First Possible, you know when you 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.360 mentioned that dance song and dancing. But I don't want 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.360 you know. Maybe for the next episode, you know, we 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:01.480 talk about this part of all. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.760 Well, Christian, I'm going to let you in on a secret. 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.720 At December, my wife and I celebrated. I think you 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.760 know this because you do, because you're aware of the 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.200 trip we took. We celebrated our fiftieth wedding anniversary and 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:16.520 it was quite a special thing. And we did have 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.560 a dance contest and our grandchildren voted as to who 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.920 won between Ronnie and her partner and me and my partner. 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.160 I'm sad to say I came to a second Christian. 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.120 Okay, I just wanted to share. Ask if you share 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.240 the outcome. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.000 I may show you a video that when I next 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.240 see you, Christian. 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.920 Okay, at least we can share with the audience that 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.760 we both have a strong connection to dancing. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.200 And I found out that Christian was a very very 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:50.320 well trained ballroom dancer, and I can imagine you doing it. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.120 I shared with you that's my fantasy. So there you go. 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.560 We may have to do a dance off Christian. We 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:56.400 may have to do it. 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.600 Maybe not such a serious competition, but at some stage, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:00.600 yes we will enter. 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.080 I'll get my grandchildren to be the voting body. And 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.040 then why not I lost to my wife, maybe I 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:06.680 can win to you. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:24.920 I'm sure. Okay, it's on at some stage. There's another 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.800 big area in our industry which experienced a lot of 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.800 consolidation in the past couple of years, and this is 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.120 the agency world. A lot of consilidations and disruptions recently 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.600 of course with Omni Common, IPG, etcetera. What do you 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.880 see as a driving force behind this trend? Is it 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.640 a trend? Is it a lasting trend? And where are 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.360 the big networks in a couple of years time compared 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:49.960 to the more independent agencies. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:57.680 Well, I think that the Omnicom IPG deal portends more 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.920 M and A. I think, and I think there's good 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.280 opportunity for it in the market. I wasn't prescient. I 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.000 just have my ear to the ground and I didn't 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.200 know what the configuration was going to be. I didn't 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:11.840 know who was going to move first. But I have 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:17.080 said publicly for the last eighteen months that within eighteen months, 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.560 the landscape of the hold codes would be different. It 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.000 turned out to be right about that. It wasn't that 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.560 I was so prescient. It was just that it was 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.359 obvious that the industrial logic of consolidation would make sense 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.159 in some context. I think it still does, and I 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.040 think there'll be other shoes to fall, and I think 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.879 the soft middle that the independent agencies are going to 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.720 have some opportunity here, especially on the performance side. That's 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:44.520 an area where I think there's a lot of growth 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:50.800 and opportunity for the independence agencies. But you know, as 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.560 I've learned over the years, I hope I'm allowed to 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.080 be a little tongue in cheek Christian. Many of my 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.000 friends know this, you might know this. I was fortunate 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.640 to consider doctor west Tim are a very very good 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.880 friend over forty years, and I like to kit around 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.920 and say, in the context of consolidation, doctor Ruth told 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.560 me size matters, and so you know, I think we're 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:13.720 going to see some more of. 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:19.359 That, especially because there's another party, right the consulting firms 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.360 who stepped into the agency business in some way over 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.879 the last couple of years. This is another component. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.520 Right well, and that's growing as well, and continuing to grow. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.520 And then we have at least I've seen you know, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.640 over the past few years as well, you know, where 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.879 brands are bringing more capabilities in house than giving it 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:38.560 to an agency. 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:40.840 Well, and we're going to continue to see that, and 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.600 you're going to continue to see brands expressing their their 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.760 their spend differently relative to you know, content development and 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.160 other things. We're going to continue to see those dynamics 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.000 occurring down the line. 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:59.119 No conversation without touching AI in some way. And I 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:01.200 mean this is a I think the most difficult part 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.600 because in a couple of minutes, how should we discuss 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.160 AI in today's world. My impression at least is let's 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.320 kick it off like this. Talking to CMO specifically, they're 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.520 telling me, okay, we get it. Now, we got it. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.480 You know, over years we were told this is the 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.920 next revolution. It will impact our everybody's world, every part 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.960 of our world, you know, consumer world as well as 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.760 our business world. Now it's time that we need to 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:28.280 see experiences from what's already done, the outcome, and what 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.640 it means for my today's and tomorrow's business. I don't 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.280 want to hear any more what's you know, what's possible 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:34.600 with AI in five years time. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.679 No let me, let me let me answer it Christian, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:43.440 and it is obviously a very important, timely and prevalent conversation. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.800 I've described the technology for me at least as the 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.600 technology of yes. And what I mean by that is, 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.840 when you're asking somebody, will AI impact this, Will it 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.359 impact that? Will it impact the next thing? The answer 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.879 is yes, will impact everything. I also look at it 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:06.359 a bit as a trojan horse, and if you're thinking 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.159 of what it's going to do to your job or 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.000 my job, the way I look at it as the 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.160 trojan horse nature of it is at the beginning, it's 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.560 going to make us better at our jobs, whatever our 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.920 jobs are. Back to the technology of yes, it will 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:26.840 impact everybody's job, even the most manual of labor jobs 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:31.479 will be impacted. So Number one, the reason I say 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.200 it's the technology of yes. The answer to every question 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.200 about what will it impact is yes. Where I think 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:39.600 we struggle right now is we're not even sure what 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.600 the questions are. So I think we have to identify 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.080 the what and then we can answer the why and 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:49.800 the how. Number one and number two, the trojan horse 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.840 nature of it is at the beginning, it makes your 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:58.119 job easier, welcome, Then it makes you better at your job, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.640 Then it makes your job even easier, then it makes 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.800 you even better, and then ultimately you're not necessary. That's 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:07.080 the progression. 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.040 I see. I think that's a very good description. Yes, yeah, 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:10.520 I agree. 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.560 Now it starts out as your friend and will ultimately 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.640 become the end of your job right in some way, 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.760 shape or form, or a massive change in your job. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.640 I think one of the highest responsibilities that a company 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:28.840 has today to their employees is L and D, is 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.719 learning and development. You know, years and years and years ago, 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:37.399 I was doing work with the company that owned the 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.560 Yellow Pages directories. And I say that because there are 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.520 probably people on this listening to this don't know what 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.520 the Yellow Pages were, so I hope you do, Christian, 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.760 and I remember them telling me in that context they 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:57.439 had pick a number five thousand feet on the street, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.560 five thousand sales associates, you know, in market selling Yellow Pages. 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.159 If they were trying to become a digital company and 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.639 selling the US Yellow Pages as a digital not a 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:15.880 print document, yeah or platform, you better retrain those five 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.360 thousand people because they're selling a different product. I think 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:26.160 it's a similar need and opportunity and responsibility to corporate America. 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.879 This isn't about a woke approach. This is about deployment 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.720 of resources and learning and development, and so I think 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.280 that becomes a very high responsibility to the C suite 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.000 to make sure that you're educating your teams and you're 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:45.440 enabling your teams to be able to use the technology 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:46.040 of Yes. 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.240 I think that's a very good example about the potential. 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.880 And do you think the industry, our industry addressed these 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.359