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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this

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Speaker 2: election and we are so excited about what that means

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Speaker 2: for the future of the show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do many big stories as per usual. So

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Speaker 2: recession fears continue to mount. After some comments from the

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Speaker 2: Fed Shair Jerome Pal yesterday, a significant Tesla investor is

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Speaker 2: now calling for Elon to step down as CEO. So

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Speaker 2: a lot that's interesting going on there with Tesla ground

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Speaker 2: invasion officially begins in Gaza. We'll take a look at

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Speaker 2: what is going on there and the US response. We've

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Speaker 2: got a bunch of updates on the various court battles

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Speaker 2: that are playing out, including how Elon is now giving

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Speaker 2: money to Republicans who back his calls to impeach Judges.

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Speaker 2: Some new data is revealing the details of how exactly

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Speaker 2: Democrats lost, and some really stunning information there to parse through.

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Speaker 2: I'm taking a look at how Trump is punishing the

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Speaker 2: state of Maine and what it could mean for you

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Speaker 2: specifically in this new era. And we are officially entering

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Speaker 2: abundance discourse. Derek Thompson is going to join us for

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Speaker 2: an interview about his new book and the political theory

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Speaker 2: that he is.

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Speaker 3: Sharing here with Ezra Klin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to him. This book taking

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of discourse around it. If you're not

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Speaker 1: aware of that discourse, God bless you, you know you're

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Speaker 1: actually you're doing the right thing staying out.

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Speaker 3: That's for you to be aware of.

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Speaker 1: That's for the nerds like us. You can enter in

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Speaker 1: just a little bit and that can be your own introduction.

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Speaker 1: But like Crystal said, let's go ahead and get to

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Speaker 1: the recession watch. So there have been some very interesting

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Speaker 1: comments here from the Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell about

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Speaker 1: the possibility of recessions some worrying data. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 4: There's always an unconditional probability possibility of a recession. It

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Speaker 4: might be broadly in the range of one in four

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Speaker 4: at any time. If you look back through the years,

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Speaker 4: it could be within twelve months one and four chance

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Speaker 4: of a recession. So the question is whether that whether

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Speaker 4: this current situation, those possibilities are elevated. I will say this, don't.

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Speaker 4: We don't make such a forecast. If you look at

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Speaker 4: outside forecasts, forecasters have generally raised. Number of them have

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Speaker 4: raised their possibility of a recession somewhat, but still at

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Speaker 4: relatively moderate levels, you know, still in the region of

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Speaker 4: the traditional because they were extremely low. If you go

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Speaker 4: back two months, people were saying that the likelihood of

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Speaker 4: a recession was extremely low. So has moved up, but

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Speaker 4: it's not high. So let me say that it is

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Speaker 4: going to be very difficult to have a precise assessment

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Speaker 4: of how much of inflation is coming from tariffs and

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Speaker 4: from other and that's already the case. You may have

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Speaker 4: seen that goods inflation moved up pretty significantly in the

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Speaker 4: first two months of the year. Trying to track that

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Speaker 4: back to actual tariff increases given what was tariff and

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Speaker 4: what was not very very challenging, so some of it,

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Speaker 4: the answer is clearly some of it A good part

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 1: So that was Federal Reserve Chairman. He's trying to tamp

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Speaker 1: down any talk of recession, but he is saying that

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Speaker 1: it is going up higher. Also talking there about inflation, key,

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Speaker 1: because of course Federal Reserve policy is deeply tied to inflation.

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Speaker 1: This comes on the heels of major announcement from the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration, the ready ing of the biggest tariff regime.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yet let's put it up there on the screen from

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Speaker 1: Jeff Stein. Trump aids are prepping new tariffs on imports

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Speaker 1: worth trillions for quote Liberation Day. So you'll all recall

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Speaker 1: this was Donald Trump's promise from the State of the

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Speaker 1: Union he will be doing reciprocal tariffs quote, but just

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Speaker 1: quote from him was that it will be Liberation Day.

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Speaker 1: He's doing it April second and not April first, because

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want anyone to think that it's in April. Ruld's joke.

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Speaker 1: The question is what exactly this is going to look like,

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Speaker 1: and it's in implementation. It's genuinely all matters. So the

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Speaker 1: idea behind it it actually, I think is when I

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Speaker 1: could get behind. The idea behind it is we will

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Speaker 1: charge anyone a tariff that they charge for us. But

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Speaker 1: the question is about, like with the USMCA and the automakers,

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Speaker 1: is how much of a tariff and how many times?

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Speaker 1: Because part of the problem is we live in a

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Speaker 1: hyper globalized economy where parts will often move across our

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Speaker 1: border some fifteen to twenty times before it will end

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Speaker 1: up in a finished vehicle. Is it like the whole

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Speaker 1: assembly will be subject to the tariff or will it

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Speaker 1: be one that is applied every single time. There's also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's bigger questions here where even if in

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Speaker 1: principle you could support reciprocal tariff, there are some tariffs

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Speaker 1: where reciprocity is eaten on the back end, so like

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Speaker 1: for a car, for example, but we'll still have a

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Speaker 1: trade start plus in another good. The idea is to

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Speaker 1: try and equalize everything. He but the implementation of it

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Speaker 1: is just almost certainly going to lead to a lot

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Speaker 1: of tariffs. And that's just one where it comes on

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Speaker 1: the heels of a story from the Trump administration so far,

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Speaker 1: which has been chaotic. This one I do think they

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Speaker 1: have a better narrative on their side. Instead of like

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Speaker 1: we're bullying Canada to be the fifty first state, We're like, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're going to charge everybody what they charge us. But

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Speaker 1: as I always say, it has to be charged with

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Speaker 1: the paired with the story. It cannot be one where

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Speaker 1: people think that it's just going to lead to higher prices.

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Speaker 1: We need to see some serious movement. There's been some,

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Speaker 1: I mean Nvidia announced yesterday they're going to onshore some stuff.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just about you know, talk, You actually

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Speaker 1: have to see some action. You really need to have

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Speaker 1: a lot of faith in a lot of trust, and

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Speaker 1: considering how things have gone now for the first sixty

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Speaker 1: seventy days the Trump administration, by the time those go in,

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Speaker 1: they are losing a lot of trust with the American

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Speaker 1: public right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they've already kind of given tariffs a

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Speaker 2: bad name. And so if they had started with like

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Speaker 2: we're doing, you know, tip for tat, they have tariffs

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Speaker 2: on us, we're going to do the same thing recip

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Speaker 2: I do think that that probably narrative would have landed

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Speaker 2: better with the American public. But at this point, and

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Speaker 2: I find this to be unfortunate because I'm actually worried

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Speaker 2: about this, just like killing the good name of tariffs

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Speaker 2: for all time, because they are an important tool in

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Speaker 2: order to build up, you know, your industrial capacity or

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Speaker 2: you know, emphasize key industries, et cetera. So an important

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Speaker 2: tool to have in the arsenal, and they've sort of

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Speaker 2: poisoned the very word tariffs already in my opinion in

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Speaker 2: these early days of the administration. Either way, how we

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Speaker 2: feel about them, it is Tosager's point going to be

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Speaker 2: a if he follows through etcetera, etcetera, a significant increase

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Speaker 2: in the tariff regime. I'm really not sure that Wall

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Speaker 2: Street has entirely grappled with this, because I think they've

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Speaker 2: always had this sense of, ah, he doesn't really mean it,

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Speaker 2: He's going to back off, and they have some reason

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Speaker 2: to believe that at this point, since he has gone

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Speaker 2: in and backed off partially, et cetera multiple times at

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Speaker 2: this point. So there could be you know, a huge

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Speaker 2: reaction if he goes forward with quote unquote Liberation Day.

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Speaker 2: I'm calling it l day on April second. Another thing

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Speaker 2: I was reading about this morning is just in terms

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Speaker 2: of the bigger picture, of where we are economically. You know,

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration is betting that there is a decent

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Speaker 2: amount of sort of economic buffer because some of those

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Speaker 2: macroeconomic numbers you know, coming out of the Biden administration

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Speaker 2: were in fact good. You know, unemployment was really low,

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Speaker 2: for example, and consumer sentiment was coming back up. But

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Speaker 2: we know because we've been we're covering this the whole time.

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Speaker 2: There were significant warning signs in the housing market, like

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Speaker 2: the housing market has not been normal in a really

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Speaker 2: long time. Things have been just kind of like frozen

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Speaker 2: in place for years. At this point, you also had

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Speaker 2: a situation where consumers, yes, they were maintaining their spending level,

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Speaker 2: but they were increasingly having to rely on credit cards

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Speaker 2: in order to be able to do that. So that

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Speaker 2: indicates that they aren't really in a position to absorb

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Speaker 2: much of a shock at all if there is an

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Speaker 2: economic downturn, if hiring does begin to freeze, if you know,

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Speaker 2: if layoffs do start, if the stock market does continue

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Speaker 2: its downward trajectory, so they may not have as much

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Speaker 2: of a buffer zone as you might think if you

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Speaker 2: were just looking at those top line macroeconomic numbers. On

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Speaker 2: the other hand, you know, consumer sentiment was pretty low

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Speaker 2: during most of the Biden administration, and it didn't actually

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Speaker 2: represent it did not actually lead to a decrease.

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Speaker 3: In consumer spending.

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Speaker 2: So last time Tiger and I were talking about, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this consumer sentiment index that's really important.

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Speaker 3: It's falling off a cliff.

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Speaker 2: People are really nervous, their inflation expectations are high, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes oftentimes that can.

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Speaker 2: Lead to a sort of like self fulfilling prophecy, or

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Speaker 2: because consumers are nervous, they pull back, and retailers are

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Speaker 2: looking at that consumer sentiment and they're pulling back as well.

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Speaker 2: But that is not always always the case. So you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of mixed signals here. But I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's any doubt that if they move forward to

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Speaker 2: the full extent on April second, there is going to

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Speaker 2: be a significant blow. And I mean Jerome pal said

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Speaker 2: as much. You know, in his very like Federal Reserve chairs,

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Speaker 2: their whole thing is to be is sort of like

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Speaker 2: neutral and non inflammatory as possible because they know how

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Speaker 2: closely everybody parses every single word. But basically it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: terroriff's lead to more inflation and lower growth. That's what

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Speaker 2: we are increasingly expecting is growth to be lower than

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Speaker 2: what was previously projected and for us to have to

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Speaker 2: worry more about inflation. I just saw soccer this morning.

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Speaker 2: Trump is out, of course, he's very upset. He wants

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Speaker 2: the Federal Reserve to cut rates, et cetera, to help

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Speaker 2: him with his tariff policy, and right now the Fed

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Speaker 2: is not going along with that.

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Speaker 1: That's still in a quote wait and see policy. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I am worried to just about all these

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Speaker 1: crazy shocks to the market, because what you'll have is, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, stocks were up yesterday on the SPED chairman's

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Speaker 1: talk about not lack of recession and about possibility of

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Speaker 1: cutting rates, but then you could have a major terif regime,

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Speaker 1: and then the Federal Reserve would try and come in

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Speaker 1: maybe save the economy and cut rates low. We just

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Speaker 1: have this just chaos. That's what people don't want to see.

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Speaker 1: And you're starting to see some pushback. I mean, mainly

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Speaker 1: it's not just Wall Street, I would say, it's really

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Speaker 1: the financial press itself is just having a lot of

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Speaker 1: difficulty dealing with all of this. So here's Maria Bartriomo

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Speaker 1: from Fox Business. By no means somebody who is adversarial

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Speaker 1: usually to the Trump administration. But you know, you got

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Speaker 1: to watch this versus her the Treasury Secretary, Scott Besstt.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 6: And they have substantial tariffs and as important as the

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Speaker 6: tariff or some of these non tariff barriers where they

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Speaker 6: have domestic content production, where they do testing on our

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Speaker 6: whether it's our food, our products that bear no resemblance

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Speaker 6: to safety or anything that we do to their products.

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Speaker 7: See, these are the things that people are really worried

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Speaker 7: about because they first thought it was just about trade,

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Speaker 7: then they thought it was just about Fenton All. Then

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Speaker 7: after that we talked about, well, maybe it's currency manipulation,

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Speaker 7: and maybe it's now you're talking about food testing.

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Speaker 3: And when I bring up the issue of clarity.

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Speaker 7: That's that's what I'm talking about, and that's what I'm

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Speaker 7: hearing from Corporate America that we're not sure where this

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Speaker 7: is going, but of course we will get resolution on August.

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Speaker 3: On a April second, rather.

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Speaker 1: So you could stay there. You know, that's about his

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Speaker 1: light pushback. I think, as you're going to get but

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Speaker 1: it's still important. And keeping with this, you have the

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Speaker 1: chief economist here of Moody's, who has recently been giving

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Speaker 1: an interview. Now, why does it matter. Remember everybody Moody's,

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Speaker 1: everybody on Wall Street. It looks to them downgrading of debt,

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Speaker 1: their forecast. Those forecasts get incorporated by the analysts. The

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Speaker 1: analysts then put that into their overall projections, and then

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Speaker 1: sometimes projections can be fulfilling because it will cost people

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Speaker 1: either to sell off or to pair back, or to

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Speaker 1: hoard cash allah war and buffet style. So here he

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Speaker 1: is the chief economist of Moody's talking about recession. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a listen.

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Speaker 8: There's a lot of talk about reciprocal terriffs, that's broad

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Speaker 8: based tariffs coming into effect in a couple of weeks

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Speaker 8: I think early up April that actually happens in those

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Speaker 8: turiffs stay in place, bringing length to time couple three

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Speaker 8: four five minths. I think that's enough to push the

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Speaker 8: economy into recession given everything else that's going on. So

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Speaker 8: you know, this would be this is a this would

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Speaker 8: be a really weird recession, right, I mean, it's recession

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Speaker 8: by design. You know, the economy came into the year

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Speaker 8: rip raw and exceptionally strong, and we're pushing it in

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Speaker 8: because of policy it just doesn't feel like, you know,

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Speaker 8: that's the direction we need to go.

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Speaker 1: Look, that's Wall Street. It could be wrong, and we

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Speaker 1: also could have the old Trump like, yeah, we're doing this,

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Speaker 1: we're doing this, we're doing this, and then we're not

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Speaker 1: doing this, so we have no idea. They could pull back.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's part of what I always think is

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Speaker 1: that the danger always is that if you have a

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Speaker 1: tariff regime and you go to the bat for tariffs,

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Speaker 1: but then you pull back, you don't you both get

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Speaker 1: like the market reaction to tariffs, and then you don't

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Speaker 1: get any benefit of tariffs. That's the problem. So I

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Speaker 1: am worried about this just in the sense of this

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Speaker 1: has to be implemented properly and needs to have a plan,

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Speaker 1: and needs to be paired with something real, Like it's

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Speaker 1: not just in video and open AI giving talks. Look,

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Speaker 1: I think it's great that Nvidia is gonna onshore hundreds

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars, but like, let's look at reality

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Speaker 1: from the Chips Act and all that. Yes, it definitely helped,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of that money he did not go

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the declining states. It states that

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Speaker 1: were already open for business and that we're kind of

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Speaker 1: booming places like Arizona. Right. Yeah, look, I had nothing

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Speaker 1: against Arizona. I'm glad. But you know, part of the

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Speaker 1: whole idea behind tariffs, why the UAW and others support them,

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Speaker 1: is also to revitalize areas that are economically declining, and

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Speaker 1: we have not seen that as of yet from the

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Speaker 1: states of Ohio, you know, Pennsylvania, of Michigan. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the economic growth if you look like in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it is healthcare, which that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: I think that's not really a tariff thing that you

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Speaker 1: can necessarily solve without some direct government intervention. So look,

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Speaker 1: they're playing with shaky ground. Yeah, if you screw people's money,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna get mad. And it's one of those where

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Speaker 1: you can do damage to yourself in the future and

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Speaker 1: you may both go to the bat for something and

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Speaker 1: then end up losing, which in my opinion puts you

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Speaker 1: in all the worst world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, in the terms of the politics of this,

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Speaker 2: we are in very unusual territory with regard to Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: where his number on the economy right now are some

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Speaker 2: of his lowest numbers. Yes, and it comes at a

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Speaker 2: time when the economy cost of living inflation, the importance

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Speaker 2: of that to Americans is only going up right now.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that he is, you know, being seen

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Speaker 2: right now increasingly is failing to deliver on what was

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Speaker 2: one of the core promises of his campaign and what

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Speaker 2: has always been one of the core promises of him

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Speaker 2: as a leader and as a political candidate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a you know, it's a big issue for him.

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Speaker 2: And you couple that with talking about, you know, the

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Speaker 2: reconciliation coming down, big tax cuts for the rich, cuts

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Speaker 2: probably to medicaid, a tax on social security that people

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Speaker 2: are very concerned about, very concerned about about. In fact,

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Speaker 2: the data segment that will probably get to today, assuming

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Speaker 2: that we don't talk too long in these other blocks.

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Speaker 2: One of the things they found is that the most

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Speaker 2: effective message right now about Trump is he is cutting

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Speaker 2: taxes for the rich and cutting your social security and

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Speaker 2: your medicare. So a lot of or less political ground

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Speaker 2: that he's on right now.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get over to Tesla. This is really

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff happening with the stock now. You might even

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Speaker 1: ask why does it matter with the stock, Well, if

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Speaker 1: the Elon's going to be major player in our government. Actually,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can edit this in later. This is maybe

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Speaker 1: an ask to our producers. The Commerce Secretary late last

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Speaker 1: night I literally went on television to encourage people to

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Speaker 1: buy Tesla's stock. I mean, I can only assume that

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Speaker 1: it's not even just about personal interest there, but like

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Speaker 1: they see that as an existential threat to Elon, to

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Speaker 1: Doge and their ability to be able to carry their

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Speaker 1: things out. So the fate of this company does obviously matter,

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Speaker 1: not only in terms.

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Speaker 2: Of that, not only that, I mean Trump was hogging

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Speaker 2: Tesla's in the launch. So this is like a hole

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Speaker 2: of government effort to prop up a preface the stock

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Speaker 2: of yes of the richest man on the entire planet.

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Speaker 1: So there you go. All it makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense sticking with that. Not only prior prior to Doge Elon,

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Speaker 1: we often saw Tesla the most successful American cars startup

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Speaker 1: of all time, especially in modern history. So what does

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Speaker 1: that matter? Well, you know, we had bet that electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles are going to be part of some of our future.

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Speaker 1: May not be everything, but you know, we want to

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Speaker 1: have some leadership in the area. And at the very

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Speaker 1: same time that we're seeing troubles in our electric vehicle

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Speaker 1: market and in our companies byd is leaping bounds of

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Speaker 1: what is possible. So let's start off here. This is

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Speaker 1: a major investor in Tesla who took to the airwaves

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Speaker 1: and basically publicly said, I think there needs to be

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Speaker 1: a new CEO because he's just not spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time on this company. This is Ross Gerber. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a listen.

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Speaker 9: I think we all make choices with our time, and

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Speaker 9: Elon doesn't get more than twenty four hours a day

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Speaker 9: just because he's Elon. So we make choices all of us.

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Speaker 9: Do do we spend time with our family, do we

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Speaker 9: go golfing?

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Speaker 10: Do we work? And how we.

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Speaker 9: Do this is, you know, each individual chooses, and so

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Speaker 9: Elon chooses to work, you know, all the time. But

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Speaker 9: you can only work so many hours a day. So

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Speaker 9: it's twenty four, right, and he's sleeps so so there's

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Speaker 9: no question he's been committed to his job at the government.

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Speaker 9: That's where he's spending his time. He is not running Tesla.

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Speaker 9: And you know that's why I'm going to say it.

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Speaker 9: I think Tesla needs a new CEO. And I decided

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Speaker 9: today I was going to start saying it. And so

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Speaker 9: this is the first show that I'm saying it on.

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Speaker 9: It's time for somebody to run Tesla. The business has

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Speaker 9: been neglected for too long. There's too many important things

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Speaker 9: Tesla's doing. So either Elon should come back to Tesla

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Speaker 9: and be the CEO of Tesla and give up his

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Speaker 9: other jobs, or he should focus on the government, keep

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Speaker 9: doing what he's doing, but find a suitable CEO for Tesla.

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Speaker 3: So you are saying, essentially, if he's not prepared to

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Speaker 3: quit that government job, he needs to go.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's time.

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Speaker 1: So you the reason why that matters is he's a

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Speaker 1: major investor in Tesla and there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: Tesla investors who are upset. I'm looking at the stock

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Speaker 1: right now. It's a flat basically on the last six months.

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Speaker 1: Let's go and put that tear sheet please up on

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Speaker 1: the screen here, because it fits with the broader pattern

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Speaker 1: of people inside of the company are deciding that they're

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Speaker 1: going to sell off. So put the next tearsheet up.

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Speaker 1: B Two Tesla board members and executive are selling off

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Speaker 1: over one hundred million dollars of stock in recent weeks.

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Speaker 3: Never a good sign.

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Speaker 1: Not a good sign. Yeah. Usually together the four top

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Speaker 1: officers of the company have offloaded one hundred million in

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Speaker 1: shares just since early February. It's likely that this is

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Speaker 1: a result of the fact that it bumped so high

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Speaker 1: immediately after the election. But you know, the truth is

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Speaker 1: is that if it's flat on the last six months,

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Speaker 1: it's erased all of its pre election gains. And broadly, like,

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Speaker 1: the company does have issues. I mean, if you look

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Speaker 1: not only at the demand, but you've got the brand

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Speaker 1: stuff which is currently happening, put B three pleas on

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Speaker 1: the screen so people can see this. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the decline overall, the year to

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Speaker 1: date decline, specifically that's from January, so that was really

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Speaker 1: where elections are, and we're talking about a thirty seven

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Speaker 1: percent decline in the overall stock value of the company.

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Speaker 1: And there are issues both with their current sales. They're

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Speaker 1: branding right now. You also have to think, like, who

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Speaker 1: are the people who are buying teslas. They're mostly like

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Speaker 1: rich people, and like rich people are usually liberals in

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Speaker 1: this country, especially the type of people who are going

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Speaker 1: to be attracted to an EV. So I've been seeing

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Speaker 1: people like we need to make buying the cyber truck

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Speaker 1: like a major part and I'm like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like a eighty five thousand dollars vehicle. Yeah, not

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Speaker 1: to say that there aren't a lot of poor people

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Speaker 1: out there driving eighty five thousand dollars Ford F one

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Speaker 1: fifties or whatever. They shouldn't be doing that either. But

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Speaker 1: my point is just if you look at the general

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Speaker 1: demographic of who their customer is, on top of the

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Speaker 1: political brand hit that they're taking, and if you also

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Speaker 1: see if Tesla's a global company, elon, you know, he

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Speaker 1: might be popular or whatever with Republicans here that's fifty

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Speaker 1: percent of our country. But you know, we have to

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Speaker 1: think about Germany. We have to think about the global marketplace,

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Speaker 1: and the biggest problem they face there is as well,

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Speaker 1: his brand is becoming polarizing. Byd cars are only getting better,

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Speaker 1: and in those countries you can buy a b Wyd car,

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Speaker 1: you can buy a Jamie car. You can't buy one here.

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Speaker 1: So in a way, he's actually protected a little bit

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Speaker 1: in the United States. But their stock value depends very

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Speaker 1: much on sales globally, in China, in Germany, in the

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Speaker 1: European Union, in fact, I mean the use case for

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Speaker 1: an EV in every other country. But the United States

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Speaker 1: is much better just because it's small. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to drive that much, and they have better infrastructure than

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Speaker 1: US too, So yeah, you rarely have to think just

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Speaker 1: about what that future value is. And I mean it

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Speaker 1: makes sense if you're Ross Gerbert, like purely from a

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Speaker 1: financial perspective, you're like, listen, I mean you're literally I

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Speaker 1: mean gave you an interview to Ted Cruz and he's like,

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Speaker 1: I sleep six hours a night and I wake I

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Speaker 1: work every single other hour. And he's like, and this

435
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: is all I'm working on. It's on does It's like, okay,

436
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: well you literally CEO and these companies, So how much

437
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: attention can you realistically give this here? I mean people

438
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: have always said that about Elon, but it's a little

439
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: bit different when you're focused on government as opposed to

440
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: running two or three other kind of interconnected businesses yea

441
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: at the same time.

442
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: And that's one of the knocks on Tesla is that

443
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 2: the inventory right now is stale, that Elon's attention is elsewhere,

444
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 2: and so you know, it's not his baby anymore the

445
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: way that it used to be. It's not his like

446
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 2: obsession of the moment, and this is a man who's

447
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 2: known for glorious obsessions, and so that's part of it,

448
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 2: I mean, but the biggest part is just how toxic

449
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 2: he's become and how polarizing he's become, and not just

450
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 2: in the US. But you know, we tracked before. The

451
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: sales in Europe have fallen off a cliff.

452
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 3: In Germany. I saw a stat they did a poll.

453
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 3: It was like.

454
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: Ninety four percent of German said that they would not

455
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: not even consider buying a Tesla. And as Sager said,

456
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 2: there are other options, and it's not like in Europe

457
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: in particular, people are buying fewer evs overall. Quite the contrary,

458
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 2: the percent of new vehicles that are being purchased that

459
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 2: are EV's continues to be on the rise, and yet

460
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: Tesla sales, like in Germany are down sixty percent. I

461
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: mean it just at some point it becomes a real problem. Also,

462
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 2: just to flag something, to keep an eye on something,

463
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep an eye on. The Financial Times

464
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 2: has an article today calling into question some of the

465
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: accounting with Tesla flagging as sort of one point four

466
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: billion dollars that is questionable of what's going on and

467
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 2: where it went, et cetera. So there may be a

468
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: lot more going on there, but THETTOM line is Elon

469
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 2: is toxic.

470
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: Figure.

471
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 2: The car has become itself very polarizing, and most people

472
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 2: are not looking to make a political statement with the

473
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: vehicle that they're driving. They just want to like have

474
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: a car that's good and drive it and not get

475
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 2: dirty looks from whoever while they're driving it. And you know,

476
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: then they've got this increased competition issue as well. I

477
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 2: do think it's like, to me, it's very funny. Republicans,

478
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: the new party of the working class organizing themselves around

479
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 2: supporting the stock value of the company of the richest

480
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 2: man on the planet is an entertaining subplot to all

481
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 2: of it.

482
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, look, we can all do. We can

483
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: do hypocrisy all we want, like.

484
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: Martin del pocracy. I just think it's funny, Like.

485
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: The Senator trading in is Tesla for Chevy gas powered vehicle,

486
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: which is not even a hybrid. What's up with that?

487
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: That's like, Look, I'm not saying it isn't dull like

488
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: somewhat amusing, but I mean I care. I like electric

489
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: vehicles and I think they're cool. So you know, I drove,

490
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: actually drove past a sick EV nine today. I gotta

491
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: give it to Kia. They are nailing their electric cars.

492
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,239
Speaker 1: I think they're really cool. But this sticks with what

493
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier with BYD. Look, I mean again,

494
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 1: any just casual observer who has no politics aside, you

495
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: just have to admit BYD is sick. Let's put this

496
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Look at what they just announced.

497
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: They got a five minute charge charge time. They are

498
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: saying that, according to them, the platform now has a

499
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: charging power of one thousand killowatts, takes up to one

500
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 1: thousand amps, which means it can charge batteries at a

501
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: rate of two kilometers per second. It can give you

502
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: four hundred kilometers in range in five minutes. The equivalent

503
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: to charge time on a Tesla would be about two

504
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: hundred miles in a range of fifteen minutes. That's if

505
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: all the stars aligned, like your battery is low, you're

506
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: att a two hundred fifty kilowat charger. There's nobody parked

507
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: next to you, which means that you're you know, your

508
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: wattage or whatever is going down. I mean a lot

509
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 1: of this is just about the engineering marvel of what

510
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: BID has been able to accomplish, and also in terms

511
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: of the regulations and design that they're allowed to build

512
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: over there in China. I'm genuinely convinced if we were

513
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: able to do or even regulatory allowed the types of

514
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: cars that they build over there, they would be huge sellers.

515
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: Like in China, the concept of a vehicle with a

516
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: five hundred mile gas tank and a three hundred mile battery,

517
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: it's everywhere, and actually they're interconnected. I mean, think about

518
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 1: that's eight hundred miles of range. Who would not buy that?

519
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of those where it's a daily driver.

520
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: As far as I know, our plug in hybrids don't

521
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: even go up to like forty or fifty miles. I

522
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: think forty is as good as it gets here. That's

523
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: just not enough, you know, if you think about YEA,

524
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: So their market not only heavily subsidized by the Chinese government,

525
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: they built their infrastructure and all that over time, but

526
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: they've laid such a framework that they're elon the founder

527
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: of BYD who himself again is a genuine engineering genius

528
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: for him to be able to create this product that

529
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: is just going exponential now with everything that is available

530
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: to him, and if you think about the global marketplace. Again,

531
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: People in Germany or wherever, they don't care if it

532
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: comes from China. We care here for the integrity of

533
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: our US auto market, but in a lot of other

534
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: countries they don't think that way, or they just want

535
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: to buy whatever is the nicest car, or they have

536
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: friendlier relations with China. And so that is a direct

537
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: threat to tesla'sability in the future because their whole growth

538
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: project was not just America, it was the whole world.

539
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: That's absolutely the case.

540
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,959
Speaker 2: And I mean, the only thing that is saving our

541
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: EV market right now is protection to some much like otherwise,

542
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 2: forget it, it'd be over because this development is so significant.

543
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the primary things that keeps people

544
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: from buying an EV is Look, we're Americans. We love

545
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 2: the long road trip, and it's a pain in the

546
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: ass to have to Like, you know, first of all,

547
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: you're nervous about am I going to find a charger?

548
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: Is it going to be broken? Like, you know, did

549
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: I have the heat on too much and now my

550
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: range is too low?

551
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: Whatever?

552
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: Though, what do they call it? Range anxiety? That's one

553
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: of the big issues. And then okay, you get to

554
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: the charger and then you got to sit there for

555
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: twenty minutes at best if you have a Tesla and

556
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: it's a supercharger and whatever to get a significant you know,

557
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: range charge, and that's a pain in the butt, Like

558
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: you want to get where you're going when you got

559
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 2: your kids, they're man annoying, et cetera, et cetera. So

560
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 2: if you can charge up three hundred miles in five minutes,

561
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 2: I mean, now we're getting to where it's comparable too

562
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 2: how long it takes to fill the tank of gas,

563
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: not to matagine. This actually ties some into the abundance

564
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 2: conversation we're going to have later too. You know, our

565
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 2: charging network is not nearly sufficient. And then the thing

566
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: that really jumped down at me in this article too

567
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: is that they say that the key challenger to be white.

568
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: It's not Tesla or any other you know, American or

569
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: European car company or whatever. It's another Chinese battery companies

570
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: of CATL. Last year they unveiled a new battery with

571
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: a charge time equating to one kilometer of range per

572
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: second or six hundred kilometers in ten minutes. So this

573
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: is part of what we're seeing with the AI development

574
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: as well. That Obviously we have strong competitors in the

575
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 2: AI field, but China has strong competitors just internally domestically,

576
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: So they have in a very short period of time

577
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: leap frog to where now technologically with these like frontier technologies,

578
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: they are not just competing with us in some in

579
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 2: many instances, actually they have surpassed us, and they're kicking

580
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: our butt. Like their model in terms of innovation is

581
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 2: working better than our model, which is sort of sclerotic

582
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 2: and financialized and you know, monopoly driven and et cetera.

583
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: So this is you know, one instance of that that

584
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 2: is really incredibly striking. And yeah, they're gonna like if

585
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: we are unable to figure this technology out and catch

586
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: up to them, every American ev maker is going.

587
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 3: To be toast globally.

588
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: They will only be able to compete within the you know,

589
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: protectionist regime of the United States of America, and that

590
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: will be about it. And Tesla and not Tesla, Sorry,

591
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: BYD is concerned about our automaker's stealing their technology. Let's

592
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: put us up on the screen. This wasn't the only concern,

593
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: but this was part of it. Their delaying approval Beijing

594
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: is for BYD to build a plant in Mexico because

595
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: they're worried that that tech is going to leak across

596
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 2: the border to the US in some sort of like

597
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: you know, corporate espionage situation. Now they have other concerns,

598
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: especially with regard to you know, there's the trade war

599
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: going on, and so they're nervous about some of that

600
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: and how that will impact it as well. But that

601
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 2: was apparently a primary consideration, which is quite funny how

602
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: the shoe is now on the other foot.

603
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 3: Sager.

604
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, except they're smart enough to actually think

605
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: about that beforehand and not figure it out twenty years later.

606
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Actually, when you have smart people who are

607
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: in your country, you can do amazing things. Personally, I'm

608
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: a Yang Wang guy. That's the BYD luxury suv. The

609
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: thing is incredible. You can float on water, according to them. Really, yeah,

610
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: it's one of those that you should look into it.

611
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: I've seen some videos of people driving around and they're

612
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 1: just they're awesome.

613
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: So Israel has quickly moved from a bombing campaign in

614
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: Gaza to now a new ground invasion. Let's go ahead

615
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: and put this up on the screen. This is their defence.

616
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 2: Min is warning the residents of Gaza with total devastation.

617
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: He says, this is your final warning. The first Sinoar

618
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: destroyed Gaza. The second Sinoar will bring upon it total ruin.

619
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: The Israeli air forces attack against Hamas Terras was only

620
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: the first step. What follows will be far harsher, and

621
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: you will bear the full cost. Evacuation of the population

622
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: from combat zones will soon resume. If all Israeli hostages

623
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: are not released and Hamas is not kicked out of Gaza,

624
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: Israel will act with force you have not known before.

625
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: Take the advice of the US President. Return the hostages,

626
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: kick out Hamas, and new options will open up for you,

627
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 2: including relocation to other parts of the world. For those

628
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: who choose the alternative is destruction and total devastations. So

629
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's no real choice being offered here.

630
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: They are headed towards that total devastation, and we already

631
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: know that they've been preparing for this ground invasion and

632
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: it has in fact begun. We can take a look

633
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: at this map up on the screen. This will be

634
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 2: famili year to some of you that you've got them

635
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: bisecting Gaza in two. Once again, he warned, there. You

636
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: know that people are going to have to be forced

637
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: to flee from the rubble that's left of their homes,

638
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: once again displaced. There has been a siege in place

639
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: now for I believe over two weeks, so no food,

640
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: no fuel, no medicine is coming in. Yesterday I saw

641
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: an eyewitness report on the ground about seven children at

642
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: a single hospital having to have amputations with no anesthesia whatsoever.

643
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: That's what we're talking about here. So Sagar returned to

644
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: absolute full force. There are some domestic political ramifications in

645
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: terms of Israeli. You have amber good number of the

646
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: population that want the Israeli government to focus on return

647
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: of the hostages. Obviously, when you have this sort of

648
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: all on assault and ground invasion with massive death tolls,

649
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: death tolls like what we saw at the beginning of

650
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: this war, that is not only putting Palestinians at risk,

651
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: it is also putting the remaining hostages at risk as well.

652
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: So yesterday there were protests in the streets. We could

653
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: put this up on the screen from the New York Times.

654
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: Thousands of Israelis gathered on Wednesday outside the Parliament building

655
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: to renew a ceasefire deal in Gaza. To protest political

656
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 2: moves by Prime Minister benchmin Netnaho, including firing the head

657
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: of the Shinbett Intelligence Agency. The convergence of popular anger

658
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: over both domestic and national security issues came a day

659
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 2: after Israel carried out deadly aerial attacks across the Gaza

660
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: Strip in what Nannah who said was only the beginning.

661
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: The strikes ended a temporary truce with mas that began

662
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: in January and added to uncertainty over the fate of

663
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: hostages still held there. Bibe has his own, you know,

664
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously his own domestic political concerns, but he

665
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: is this long pushed off corruption trial that was about

666
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: to be was about to have to give testimony and again,

667
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: oh whoops, now we're at war again, so I won't

668
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: have to do that. So it's very naked to a

669
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: lot of Israelis. How much of the war plan is

670
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: about BB's own personal interests versus you know, like I said.

671
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: A lot of them.

672
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: It's not that they're worried about the brutality versus these

673
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: of the Palestinians predominantly not, but they are worried about

674
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: being able to get their own hostages.

675
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: Back in one piece.

676
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also a scandal in Israel right now where

677
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: Bbe fired the head of the Shinbet, like their domestic agency,

678
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: and that was it's actually it's causing some like similar

679
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: court battles between the Israeli courts saying that they was

680
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: done illegally, which has now led to some deep state

681
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: convo which is predominantly hilarious. Let's put C three pleas

682
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: up on the screen from Benjamin Nett and yaho. He says,

683
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: in America and in Israel, when a strong wire right

684
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: wing leader wins an election, the leftist deep state weaponizes

685
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: the justice system to thwart the people's will. They won't

686
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: win in either place. We stand strong together, right, So

687
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: tying himself directly to our own domestic political situation, I

688
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: guess fairly considering how much influence they have over here.

689
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: But people should always remember, you know.

690
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: Look, I think Israel and replied to that too, Oh

691
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: Diddy's right cool something. Yeah, that's one of the like,

692
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: oh my god, dude, you are in the keep staying like,

693
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: how much of the new like revealed redactions in the

694
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: JFK files are like about Israel?

695
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: And well, yeah, we're going to have Jefferson morleyon he's

696
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: a great journalist about the JFK files, But overall it's

697
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: kind of disappointing, and it is something I always tell

698
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: people because they're like, oh, the files are and then

699
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, with nine to eleven, with JFK, with

700
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: the UFOs and all that, we almost kind of like

701
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: UFOs maybe aside there's a lot more we could learn.

702
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: But no, there's no government document that's like there are

703
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: visiting aliens. There's no government document that says we shot JFK.

704
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: A lot of the circumstantial evidence and all that, it's

705
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: all out there just but in terms of the fact

706
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: that the official narrative is completely BS and for the

707
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: CIA elements and all of that, the story has been

708
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: effectively known since nineteen nineties, I would say, And you know,

709
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: it's obviously popularized and a lot of people really paid

710
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: attention after Oliver Stone's movie, but even before that, the

711
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: whole Jim Garrison investigation, Americans by and large didn't believe

712
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: the story. I thought it was a conspiracy very very

713
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: early on. So I know, it is kind of disappointing

714
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: on that's the way that it's all shaken out.

715
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: On the BB deep state thing.

716
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: I mean, why wouldn't he say this because it's worked

717
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: so well, even like you know SBF going on, yeah,

718
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: on Tucker's show, and you know, certainly the Tates portraying

719
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: themselves some victims of some deep state, which Hunt Russell

720
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: Brand comes to mind as well. Eric Adams in New

721
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: York comes to mind as well. So try and true strategy.

722
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't be be who certainly understands domestic political

723
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 2: strategies here within the US context, why wouldn't he also

724
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: go ahead and make himself a victim of the deep states?

725
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: You know what he's doing?

726
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely incredible.

727
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: What's C four up there on the screen as well?

728
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: This is from Ken Klippenstein. This was actually really interesting.

729
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: It's basically about the quote Iran War Plan, and what

730
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: can can report, according to some of his sources and others,

731
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: is that inside of the Pentagon some war game plans

732
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: are now beginning to take shape. Now, obviously that's not

733
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: something that means it's going to happen, and of course

734
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: there's war plans for everything, but quote the new war

735
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: plan construct is itself new in that multilateral components including Israel,

736
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: working in unison with the golf partners, either indirectly or directly,

737
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: are now part of it. And the plan also includes

738
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: many different contingencies and levels of war, from crisis action

739
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: meaning response to events to quote deliberate planning which will

740
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: set scenarios to flow from the crises out of control,

741
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: including it up to obviously like invasion, full concept plan,

742
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: full operations. Look obviously, somebody ordered those plans to be

743
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,959
Speaker 1: renewed for what purpose we don't know. Does bring to mind, gosh,

744
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on the guy's name, Wesley something. He was

745
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: the general. He was the general during the after the

746
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: war on Tario came out and talked about war plans

747
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: that were for Iraq and for all the rest of

748
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: the Middle East. People often point back to that one

749
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: as evidence of like fore, planning for multiple invasions y

750
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: going forward. But anytime you see something like this, you

751
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: should of course take interest, why has this been ordered

752
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: for what purpose? Because the alternative could be to order

753
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: some revolutionary diplomacy. At the very same time, we do

754
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: know that Trump has apparently sent a letter to the

755
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: IATOLA being like, we need want to deal within the

756
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: next two months or something, But we haven't seen any

757
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: movement on that A.

758
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 3: No, quite the contrary.

759
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I think because they're also re implementing the

760
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 2: maximum pressure strategy, and so I think that has I mean,

761
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 2: I don't know that Iran was going to be that

762
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 2: amenable to making a deal at this point anyway, given

763
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 2: that they already made a deal. And it backfired because

764
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 2: we pulled on you know, Trump one point, I oo

765
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: pulled out of the deal. Biden failed to get back

766
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 2: in or really show that much interest in getting back in,

767
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: and now you've got even more sanctions being applied to

768
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 2: them and threats coming from the White House. So it's

769
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: not looking great, but you listen, you never know. The

770
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 2: other thing that was really troubling that Ken was able

771
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: to report we can put this up on the screen

772
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: is as part of those war plans include a nuclear option,

773
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: and he points specifically to this comment that Trump made,

774
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 2: and Trump said this thing, he said, we can't let

775
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: Iran have a nuclear weapon. I would rather have a

776
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: piece deal than the other option. But the other option

777
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: will solve the problem. And Ken thinks this may be

778
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: an allusion to like a sort of vague allusion towards

779
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: this nuclear war plan which has been developed as part

780
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 2: of this larger menu of options with regard to an

781
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: all out war on Iran. So obviously all of this

782
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: is deeply troubling, and just to give you the latest

783
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: few updates from on the ground in Israel as well,

784
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 2: just to be as current as possible here, you did

785
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 2: have some Hamas was able to fire some rockets at

786
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: Tel Aviv, which obviously it's wild that at this point,

787
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: given how much destruction across the entire Gaza Strip, that

788
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: they still have that kind of capability. And per Haratz,

789
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: you also have updated death toll massive numbers of Palestinians

790
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 2: being killed this week by Israel. Over seven hundred and

791
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 2: ten Palestinians killed, nine hundred wounded in Israeli strikes in

792
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: the Gaza Strip just in the last forty eight hours.

793
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: Some of the patients died to a lack of medical equipment,

794
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: says the spokesperson for one hospital, and thousands of Israelis

795
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: continuing to march and protest in the street as this

796
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: ground invasion has officially begun in northern Gaza. The bombing

797
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: campaign obviously is all out and kind of no end

798
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 2: in sight here. I mean, at this point, there isn't

799
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: even you know, a pretense of looking to negotiate a

800
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: new ceasfire deal or looking to get back to Phase two,

801
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: et cetera. As we said when we covered this earlier

802
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: in the week, Bbe always made it clear heat and

803
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 2: really intend to go to phase two. The question mark

804
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: was whether the Trump administration was going to actually apply

805
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 2: pressure to force them to go to phase two. And

806
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: at this point it's pretty clear we have our answer there.

807
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. All right, let's move on to the courts.

808
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 2: A bunch of updates for you warning about what is

809
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: going on in the court system. But let's go ahead

810
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: and start with this. Elon Musk continuing his attacks on judges.

811
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: This in a rather ill informed tweet, he says, quote,

812
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 2: this is a judicial coup. We need sixty senators to

813
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 2: impeach the judges and restore rule of the people. Okay,

814
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: this is where his South African roots are really coming out,

815
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: because first of all, impeachment happens in the House. Second

816
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 2: of all, to convict in the Senate, it takes sixty

817
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: seven senators. So nice try on that one, obviously community

818
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: noted on his own platform, But more significant than that,

819
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: I mean, this is part of a broader push towards

820
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: impeaching the judges, towards putting pressure on the judges.

821
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: On the President of.

822
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: The United States has echoed some of this language as well,

823
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: put D seven up on.

824
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: The screen here.

825
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,479
Speaker 2: Elon has also donated to Republican members of Congress who

826
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: have directly supported impeaching judges. He's given the maximum allowable

827
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: direct contribution. It's something like sixty six hundred dollars. So

828
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: we're not talking about millions, y or soccer. It's more

829
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: about the message he's trying to send. And this has

830
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: been you know, one of the core things again that

831
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 2: has been different about Trump two point zero is Elon

832
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: from the very first fight made it clear he is

833
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: perfectly willing to use his billions in order to enforce

834
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: conformity from the Republican Party. And lo and behold, you know,

835
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: I mean, you combine that and with the fact that

836
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: Trump has just completely subsumed this party at this point,

837
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: but you have so much less actual dissent this time

838
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: when it comes to vote taking than you did in

839
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: Trump one point zero. And Elon again here signaling the

840
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: direction he wants Republican Republicans to go in with this

841
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: increasingly hostile view towards the federal judicial system.

842
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: Well, I am glad you agree with me, Crystal that

843
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: many foreigners don't have a civic understanding of America and

844
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: should perhaps keep their mouths shut a little bit. But

845
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: whenever they come here, just an idea, maybe if you're

846
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: a campus protester or something like, listen, I would you know,

847
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: maybe keep your bullshit a.

848
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 3: Lot in immigration if we're going to deport Elon Musky.

849
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: All right, well, he actually is a good example about

850
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: interlopers and all of that. But anyway, coming back to

851
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 1: the Musk point, it is important for people to understand

852
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: here that it is not like he's giving them a

853
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: ton of money. It's sixty six hundred dollars. It's really

854
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: about sending a message. And I would say that the

855
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: most important thing is generating the headlines for all of

856
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: the other Republicans who are in the House and in

857
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: the Senate to know that you're not just getting a

858
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: donation from Elon And obviously that will help in the

859
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: future with respect to America Pack and his other super

860
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: Pac organizations, But it's really about the boost that you're

861
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: getting within the Republican base and on their media, which

862
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: is predominantly at least the thought leaders and others getting

863
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: them from Twitter. People like us are covering the story,

864
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: and if you're a Republican legislator, the message is clear,

865
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: go along with this, and I'm going to get a

866
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: tongue bath from Elon on Twitter, which is very useful

867
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: to them whenever they go back to their district. It

868
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: helps them get on Box News, get some some media

869
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: publicity at elsewhere. So it's really just about moving the

870
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: incentives more towards like Elon's particular approval of you and

871
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: your ability and then thrive in the Republican Party in

872
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: the future.

873
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: It's that, and it's also.

874
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: If you you you know, get rewarded if you do

875
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 2: what I want you to do, and the threat is

876
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 2: also hanging over that of if you don't, then there's

877
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: going to be infinite money basically put towards a primary

878
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: challenger if you get crosswise, so you know, it is

879
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 2: is definitely intended to send a signal to all and

880
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: so far it's really worked. Actually, Lisa Murkowski was giving

881
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: some speech back in Alaska where she was talking about like, yeah,

882
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: he could fund a primary challenger. I could be done

883
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: tomorrow if he liked, you know, just drops however much

884
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: he wants to drop.

885
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: So they're definitely she thinks that's true because she survived.

886
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: She might be one of the rare ones that could

887
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: survive because.

888
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: Is so unique.

889
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean that is there. They're definitely thinking

890
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: about it. Given how central money and politics is, and

891
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 2: and it's not just the money said, I mean, he's

892
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: got the President, he's got Twitter. They have so much

893
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: power and control over this party at this point that

894
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: even someone like Lisa Murkowski has to at least be

895
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 2: worried that it would be a problem for her. Let's

896
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: go ahead and put now D one up on the screen.

897
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: So very latest with regard to the Alien Enemies Act deportations.

898
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: So a judge warned of.

899
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: Possible consequences after DOJ pushback on questions about the deportation flight.

900
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: Let me read you a little bit of this here

901
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 2: so I can make sure to get the legalies correct.

902
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: So it says a federal judge Wednesday, warned of the

903
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: possibility of consequences.

904
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 3: After they pushed back.

905
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: US District Judge James Bosborg had ordered the Trump administration

906
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: to submit answers to his questions about the timing of

907
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: the deportation flights and custody handover of deporte deportees, giving

908
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: the government until noon Wednesday to respond. The government submitted

909
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: a filing Wednesday morning asked asking for a pause of

910
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: that order to answer his questions. It contended that the

911
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 2: answers could expose negotiations with foreign countries to Syria, risk

912
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: of micromanaged and unnecessary judicial fishing expeditions, and potential public disclosure.

913
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: The judge was not impressed with this. The government basically

914
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: threatened that they may invoked state secrets doctrine to keep

915
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 2: this all private, even though you know, we talked the

916
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: other day about we actually all know now because of

917
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: public flight tracking information, where the flights were, when they

918
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: took off, when they landed, all that stuff. Not to

919
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: mention that they themselves released and amplified these videos of

920
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 2: the you know, detainees and having their head shaved and

921
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. So, in any case, the

922
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 2: judge said, the government's motion is the first time it

923
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 2: suggested that disclosing the information requested by the court could

924
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: amount the release of state secrets. To date, in fact,

925
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: the government has made no claim that information is even classified.

926
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 2: He continued, for example, the Secretary of State has revealed

927
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: many operational details of the flights, including the number of

928
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: people involved, many of their identities, the facility to which

929
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: they were brought, the manner of treatment, time window during

930
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 2: which these events occurred. Courts therefore unsure at this time

931
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: how compliance with its minute order would jeopardize state secrets.

932
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: He gave the Justice Department until noon.

933
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: Thursday, that's today, possibly after this even gets posted to

934
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 2: either answer his questions about the flights or invoke the

935
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: State Secrets doctor and explain the basis for such invocation.

936
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: So TLDR is they're still trying to stonewall and the

937
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 2: judges getting increasingly impatient.

938
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 1: Yes, and they may get held in contempt. Even if

939
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: they do, it's going to go on a rocket to

940
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: the Appellate Court, and then from the Appellate Court it's

941
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: going to go to the Supreme Court. So there's still

942
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: quite a bit to happen here. Bringing back to the

943
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: judge conversation, it is just becoming clear that there are

944
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: so many of these things. I have spoke to one

945
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: friend who said that this might actually be packaged with

946
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: the multitude of the other judges orders, so that Scotus

947
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: tries to get ahead of like being I mean, you

948
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: know what, in the last forty eight hours, we've had

949
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: the USAID Court decision, the transgender decision, there was USIP

950
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: and there's also this one. So it is one that no,

951
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: I actually am missing one. I'm forgetting exactly what it is.

952
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: But that's five literally just in the last like seventy

953
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: two hours, that these questions of temporary restraining order in

954
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: the role of district depellate and timely process and all

955
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: of that could be picked up by SCOTUS asap in

956
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: order to head off future like showdowns like the one

957
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: that we're seeing right now.

958
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you reference the USIP one. Let's see, this is

959
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 2: D four we can put up on the screen. Is

960
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: just the latest info here. A judge has denied a

961
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: restraining order to block DOGE from its takeover of the

962
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: US Institute of Peace, saying that despite being offended by

963
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: DOJ's hostile ands writing treatment of American citizens, there are

964
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: issues with the merits of the lawsuit.

965
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: So that one, you.

966
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: Know, no final ruling here, but a temporary restraining order

967
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: in this instance was denied, and then I believe they'll

968
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,280
Speaker 2: begin to weigh in on the merits next week Monday,

969
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: if memory serves so that's basically the latest.

970
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 3: But you know, I mean the campaign around pressuring.

971
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: The judges is a central part of their strategy at

972
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: this point, and you know, floating impeachment for judges, Elon

973
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: floating like putting his money behind it. Trump was asked

974
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: Ryan and Emily played this was asked about like, oh,

975
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: would you ever just defy their court orders? And he

976
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: said no, But you need to look at some of

977
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: these judges. You need to look into some of these

978
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: judges seem to be sort of like tacitly backing this

979
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: direction to put pressure on them. You know, do I

980
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: think that any of them could actually get impeached? Given that,

981
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,479
Speaker 2: as Elon apparently doesn't know, it takes sixty seven votes

982
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: in the Senate in order to impeach, I think that

983
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: is not going to happen. But you know, they again

984
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: are trying to send a message and make it uncomfortable.

985
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: I think in some of these instances it could backfire.

986
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 3: I mean, these are human beings.

987
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: If you're aggressively threatening them, et cetera, sometimes people get

988
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: their backup and it makes them even more determined. But

989
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: you know the other thing with regard to this particular judge,

990
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: Bosberg is like, if you look at his case record,

991
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: he's definitely not like a lip. He was actually put

992
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: in place first by George W.

993
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 3: Bush.

994
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: He's had a bunch of decisions that actually went in

995
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: favor of Trump, and so you know, the caricature of

996
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: him is certainly not accurate in terms of the way

997
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 2: he's being portrayed as some quote unquote radical left judge.

998
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it is annoying to see them try

999
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: and paint that as both were pointing out his wife

1000
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: or his daughter or whatever. I do just I mean, look,

1001
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: we talked about this in our debate. I think it's

1002
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: crazy the idea that a judge could take a US

1003
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 1: military aircraft and to turn around.

1004
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: Or it actually wasn't a military aircraft, it was an

1005
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: ice chartered flight. But you know, the there's many instances

1006
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: of judge rulings having an impact on things that happen

1007
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 2: overseas because you're ruling applies to the agency. The agency

1008
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 2: is giving the direction, and so this is not it's

1009
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 2: not crazy, it's not unprecedented.

1010
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: It's happened many times.

1011
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: I was about to zoom out a little bit and

1012
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 1: not just talk about the flight. But like, for example,

1013
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: the transgender order. You know, it's like this, this was

1014
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: a policy implemented by executive review by the Obama administration,

1015
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: then flipped by the Trump administration, and now the judge

1016
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: ruling that actually this violates the law is literally citing

1017
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: Hamilton in their footnotes. So like, let's all also be

1018
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 1: like a little bit honest here.

1019
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's fine, but that's why you have an

1020
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: appeals No.

1021
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: I'm not I mean disputing that, but I'm just I

1022
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: get very annoyed at this idea that like there's this

1023
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: worship of fullness of the judges and the courts. When

1024
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: anytime some crackpot judge in Texas rules on myth of pristone,

1025
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, the courts are legitimate. This is ridiculous.

1026
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: When the Supreme Court rolls on Scotus, it's like, oh,

1027
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: we got to pack the court. It's like, let's be

1028
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: honest here about like reverence and annoyance for judges, both

1029
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: on sides of the political spectrum and for where that

1030
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: appeals process comes in. I mean, I genuinely do think

1031
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: many of these judges' orders are patently insane. Like the

1032
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: transgender one in particular, I'm like, what, like, under what

1033
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: rule are you allowed to say that this is some

1034
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: like civil rights violation when it was an executive policy

1035
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: from the very beginning that was put into place by Obama,

1036
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: flipped by Trump and now basically put back into place

1037
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: by Biden and then flipped by Trump again. It is

1038
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: just so obviously within the Article two powers of the

1039
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: Commander in Chief under the US Constitution. Now this is

1040
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: going to take forever in terms of pushing things to

1041
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: the court. Like That's why, if anything, I'm cheering for

1042
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: like a fulsome decision, because this is not the way

1043
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: that a government should be run, like literally constantly being

1044
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: changed by some district court. We saw the same thing

1045
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: at the first Trump The reason, but I mean some

1046
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: Hawaii judge, the reason is this is not this is

1047
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: not legitimate.

1048
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: And I haven't I haven't acquainted myself really with the

1049
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: transgender to say, I haven't Dog Hamilton, I haven't dug

1050
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 2: into the you know, legal merits of the case, et cetera.

1051
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: So I don't want to apply it on that one.

1052
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: But I mean, the reason that there's so many court

1053
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: decisions is because they're violating the law so.

1054
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 3: Frequently, like that's the reason why.

1055
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: And I mean you've had judges that Trump pointed rule

1056
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: against Trump, You've had George W. Bush appointees, You've had

1057
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: you know, across the spectrum. Because what they're doing is

1058
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 2: so extreme. Now much of this will I mean, we'll

1059
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 2: go through the Pels process and we'll go up to

1060
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. That's the way that this is supposed

1061
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 2: to go. But you know, I mean to discuss that

1062
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 2: this is a concertative strategy for them to try to

1063
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 2: intimidate the judges, put pressure on them, and they also

1064
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: you know, they're playing this game where they are in

1065
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: defiance of court orders. I mean with the with the

1066
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: planes is probably the most brazen example, but also with

1067
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 2: USAID and a bunch of these other decisions. The judge

1068
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: will issue a very cool, clear ruling and they'll just

1069
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 2: be like no, and they'll come up with some right, oh,

1070
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: well we didn't understand or we thought you meant this,

1071
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: or actually we're doing it under this other power whatever.

1072
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: But it does stack up to.

1073
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: Persistent defiance of the courts in a way that is extraordinary,

1074
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 2: in a way that we have not seen before. And

1075
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 2: you know that does represent a sort of new era

1076
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: and new approach where he's trying to consolidate and very effectively,

1077
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: so all of this power in the executive so that

1078
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,879
Speaker 2: he and Elon can basically do whatever they want. They've

1079
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 2: already destroyed that, like the Congress has given up their power.

1080
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 2: They don't even want to have power anymore, so that

1081
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 2: one's dead and gone, and the only thing that's left

1082
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: is the judiciary to serve as any sort of check

1083
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: on an executive. And that means you know, not just

1084
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: Trump who you feel more comfortable with, but if there

1085
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: is another you know, election with a Democratic elected, then

1086
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: it would they could easily take up that same approach

1087
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 2: for ends that you would not be.

1088
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 3: Excited about, it would not approve of.

1089
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: But so yeah, so, I mean that's why these battles

1090
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 2: are significant and important, and why they're approach to them

1091
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 2: truly is different. I mean, we haven't had set for

1092
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 2: two hundred plus years, we've had a consensus that you

1093
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 2: don't try to impeach a judge over a ruling you

1094
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,479
Speaker 2: don't like, and that's something they're seeking to change. That's

1095
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: really noteworthy and it's really different.

1096
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I wouldn't take it. It's not like

1097
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: there weren't calls FDR Era and all end to impeach

1098
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: during Lincoln as well to impeach judges for people who

1099
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: they disagreed with. It's just that usually they don't rise

1100
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: to that level because you need sixty seven people to

1101
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: do it, and it's not going to happen. So I

1102
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 1: think I agree with you that it's not going to happen.

1103
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: I just am saying at a philosophical level in a

1104
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: certain sense, like what is happening here is kind of

1105
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: like a left fever dream that was under the Biden

1106
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: administration where they just desperately wanted Biden to defy the

1107
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: courts on student loans or I've talked previously about like

1108
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: maximum stretch executive power. This is basically an idea of

1109
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: like seizing government as opposed to or seizing government in

1110
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: this case for the sake of dismantling government. And probably

1111
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: the left case is seizing government in the case of

1112
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: actually trying to exercise the power of the government. But

1113
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: in both they're trying to invest more in the executive

1114
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: authority under that present and as always in this district

1115
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: judge thing, I think we also have to take a

1116
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: step back I saw somebody make a good point is

1117
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: that a single district judge, and there's seven hundred district judges,

1118
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: actually has more power than a single Supreme Court justice

1119
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: in the sense that a single district judge can inch

1120
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: issue a temporary restraining order that applies to the entire

1121
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: United States federal government, whereas it takes five out of

1122
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: the nine justices to actually implement a policy that basically

1123
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: is the ultimate ruling of the Supreme Court of the

1124
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: United States. And process by death by process is a

1125
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: Washington thing as old as time throwing the wrenches. Now,

1126
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't disagree that the Trump administration, all of them,

1127
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: have taken extraordinary action on USAID and all this other

1128
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: many of which I disagree with and I actually think

1129
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: is quite stupid. But the district judge point about governance

1130
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: by judiciary, where it's just this constant judge shopping both

1131
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: left and right for where they're looking at that system

1132
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: is genuinely kind of insane. Now, is it better to

1133
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: have some dictator in Elon and Trump? No, not necessarily,

1134
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: but I do think that people should look at this

1135
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: and say this is not really the correct way, or

1136
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 1: at least I think how judicial review was supposed to

1137
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: be put into place where there's this constant back and

1138
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: forth and then this district judge is invested with all

1139
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: this power and then sometimes we have to wait months

1140
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: for an appellate process or whatever to go through the

1141
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: Supreme Court on a timely basis. You know, there is uh,

1142
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: there is genuinely like a criticism I think to be

1143
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 1: had of the way that this is playing out on

1144
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: a practical level.

1145
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: The time benefits trump the fact that it's oh a

1146
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 2: hundred percent because think about I mean, this is their strategy.

1147
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: This is what Ban and Another's talk about is flood

1148
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 2: the zone and overwhelm these institutions. And while it's having

1149
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: to slowly work its way through this process and appeals

1150
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: court and eventually maybe go to the Supreme Court, et cetera.

1151
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 2: Usaada is destroyed, CFPB is destroyed, like there is.

1152
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 3: That is what.

1153
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: They're counting on is for it to take a long time.

1154
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: And in the meantime, you know, as we've said before,

1155
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 2: federal government agents like it's not a switch you can

1156
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: flip on.

1157
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 3: And off in a meantime.

1158
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 2: In the meantime, incredible damage is being done that no

1159
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: court will be adequate to undo. Now, can they forestall

1160
00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:00,760
Speaker 2: some of the worst damage potentially, But you know, we've

1161
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: already seen the way that this unfolds, so I view

1162
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 2: it quite the polar opposite. Number one, the time that

1163
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 2: it takes only benefits Trump. You know, even if we

1164
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: just look at this discrete example of the planes that

1165
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: we're able to take off while a judge is having

1166
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 2: to like just give the most basics of deliberation, you

1167
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 2: know that's already it's done and dusted and those people

1168
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 2: are gone, and like that's that. So you know, even

1169
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: in that discrete example, you can see the way that

1170
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 2: they're able to accomplish some of their objectives just by

1171
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: taking advantage of the fact that it takes time with

1172
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: the courts. But I also think that what they're doing

1173
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: by violating so many laws and constitutional and you know,

1174
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 2: the constitution at once, is they are overwhelming the court

1175
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 2: system and seizing so much more power from it and

1176
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: betting that it's going to be effectively inadequate ultimately to

1177
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: be able to you know, forestall them achieving their objective.

1178
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 2: So quite to the contrary of like the court system

1179
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: being so powerful, I think the court system looks pretty

1180
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 2: weak right now. In terms of being able to, you know,

1181
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 2: stop what many lawyers across the political spectrum, like I said,

1182
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: Trump appointees, Obama appointees, George W.

1183
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 3: Bush appointees, all across.

1184
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 2: The board have said looks to be illegal, unconstitutional violations

1185
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: of the law. So, you know, I guess I see

1186
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 2: it com like polar opposite rather than they think of

1187
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 2: these individual district court judges are like so powerful. I

1188
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: think the whole judiciary put together is really it's the

1189
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 2: only institutional check on this administration. But I'm under no

1190
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: illusions that it's like sufficient.

1191
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: I take your point, but I think it's because you see,

1192
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, what they want to do, like let's say

1193
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: the Department of Education. They want to eradicate the Department

1194
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: of Education. It's right, Okay, well you can't literally do that,

1195
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: so they're try do fifty percent. Let's or USAID even

1196
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: better example, Yes, you can stop the funding, but if

1197
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: they order you to get it back and it's back

1198
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 1: in a year, sure you've caused some chaos in the interim,

1199
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: but you have made no substance of real change the

1200
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 1: overall arc of the US government. You might have knocked

1201
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: it off like a little bit in terms of all

1202
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: of this funding, but you know it'll heal and it'll

1203
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: go right back to funding the same NGOs let's say

1204
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: five years from now under a democratic president. And in

1205
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: the district judge case, like for example, you're talking about

1206
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: the planes, it's like, well you could see it in

1207
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: that sense, it's like, yeah, all those people have been deported,

1208
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: but if you wanted to continue to make this like

1209
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: a long standing policy, it's literally not happening. I think

1210
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: that's probably a good outcome if you're some liberal ACLU

1211
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: immigration lawyer. So the point is is that you may

1212
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: are not getting everything that you want, but like on balance,

1213
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: you are actually putting a stop to a lot of

1214
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: the policy or even the implementation of long standing ones.

1215
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: So I do want to see a resolution like to

1216
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: this because in a sense too, the chaos becoming the story.

1217
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: It's like what we were talking about with tariffs. With

1218
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: the chaos becoming the story, you get all the political

1219
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 1: backlash of something and not even any of the so

1220
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: called intended benefit that was supposed to come as a

1221
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: result of this. So you may get all the political

1222
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,919
Speaker 1: backlash of deportation something like that, and not actually even

1223
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: have any deportation. So in a sense, you don't even

1224
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: really get what you voted for and the policy, while

1225
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: at the same time you're inviting all of this court

1226
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: and district battle after over every single executive action. And

1227
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: I will grant you that there are many I think

1228
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: are wrong and or unconstitutional whatever, But the point is

1229
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: is that by this district judge process of all this happening,

1230
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: there is no confidence I think on either side here

1231
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: because in the way that I'm taking your view of

1232
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: the situation, that actually any coherence is happening in the

1233
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 1: government at all. And I don't think that chaos works

1234
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 1: at like a big, small d democratic level, especially increasing

1235
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: confidence in both the judiciar where people think judiciary is

1236
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: failing and the people who think the judiciary is overreaching.

1237
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: If any of that makes sense.

1238
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 2: It does, and I think you're right, Like, obviously it's

1239
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: not popular, it's not going well from them from a

1240
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 2: political standpoint, but I'm not that's not the only goal.

1241
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 2: Like maybe they care about that, maybe some of them

1242
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 2: care about that, But the ideological goal is to break government,

1243
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: and they're doing that pretty effectively.

1244
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 3: The ideological goal is.

1245
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 2: To, you know, for them to push the limits of

1246
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: the amount of power that Trump can claim and you know,

1247
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 2: they're doing that and Elon can claim and they're doing

1248
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 2: that very effectively. The ideological goal for Elon is, you know,

1249
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: I think a number of different things, but he's certainly

1250
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: been able to use his power to get rid of

1251
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: investigations that are targeting his companies. He's in position to

1252
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: hurt competitors, he's in position to you know, take contracts

1253
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: and funnel them towards his companies, et cetera. So from

1254
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 2: that perspective, yeah, I think, you know, I think it's

1255
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 2: working to serve some of the ideological goals that they

1256
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 2: have that like the rest of votes of the world have,

1257
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,919
Speaker 2: where you know, they they hate government. They don't want

1258
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,959
Speaker 2: government to work because if government doesn't work, that gives

1259
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: you more of a cudgel to further cut and destroy government.

1260
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,959
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I mean, he's what was his quote,

1261
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: he wants to make the bureaucracy miserable or make them

1262
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: suffer or something like that. You know, he wants them

1263
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: to self deport. Yeah, hey, they're doing you know, that's.

1264
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: But they're not self deporting. They're not quitting enough.

1265
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: They're digging in, they are digging in their heels in

1266
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: a certain sense. But I am quite from speaking with

1267
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, plenty of government workers. They are definitely being

1268
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: made miserable, uncomfortable, et cetera.

1269
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 3: So that part is succeeding.

1270
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: One of my buddies has to go in at five

1271
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: thirty am to an office that they hadn't been two

1272
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: for years. There's not even enough desks for everybody, but

1273
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: they all have to be there and they have to

1274
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 1: stagger their time. And he's like, look, this is not

1275
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: more efficient. It's actually obviously stupid.

1276
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not about efficient.

1277
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: I'll really the goal, you know, Curtis Again, Curtis Jarvin

1278
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: actually made a pretty good point where he's like, look,

1279
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: if you don't do this properly, the bureaucracy will become

1280
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: roaring back and will actually become ten times more both

1281
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 1: entrenched in our institutions. I think he's actually right.

1282
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 2: Did you see the Did you see that Tim Walls

1283
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 2: quote on this? Finish your point and I'll look it

1284
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 2: up Curtis's point.

1285
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: Curtis's point was basically, if you don't do it effectively,

1286
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: then you're actually just ensuring like a not only like

1287
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 1: a restoration of the regime, but the regime on steroids.

1288
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 1: I think he's right in the sense that right now

1289
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 1: Doge has successfully what cut a few programs if you like, Okay,

1290
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: that's cute, that's nice. The Pentagon still exists, Medicaids still exists,

1291
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: social Security still exists. All of the genuine, like capital

1292
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: b power of the bureaucracy is effectively untouched. The Department

1293
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: of Education. Look, we can argue all day long. I'm sorry,

1294
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: it's a joke. Like it's just not even powerful, absolutely

1295
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 1: at all, especially considering the vast majority of school funding

1296
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: does not even come from the federal government, and the

1297
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: policies at the state level are the people who actually are.

1298
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 3: There people without funding from the federal government matter.

1299
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: Yes, especially that money's not going anywhere or at least

1300
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: according to them for right now. But the policies at

1301
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 1: an individual school district level are in the school district

1302
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: and the state. Those are the people who mostly rule

1303
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: what actually happens inside of that building. So my point

1304
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 1: is that if you keep doing this slapshot approach and

1305
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: you have the vibe of cutting the government, but by

1306
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 1: doing that, you're actually making government institutions and all that

1307
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 1: more popular. You could in effect see a rise of

1308
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: a much more powerful and dangerous deep state in the future.

1309
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: What's the Tim Watson, I.

1310
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 3: Can't find it.

1311
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 2: But basically he got asked about, you know, this question

1312
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 2: of how do Democrats think about rebuilding the federal government,

1313
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: and you know, his response is like, we need to

1314
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 2: think about He said it could almost have a silver

1315
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 2: lining because.

1316
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: It could allow them to build back better.

1317
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: That's not what he said, right, That's the idea is like, basically,

1318
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: you know we can Okay, they No one says the

1319
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 2: federal government's like perfect and not sclerotic and doesn't have

1320
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: these issues. It does, so Okay, you've like devastated this

1321
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 2: we get to rebuild potentially from the ashes and make

1322
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 2: it better, strong, or et cetera. So there is some

1323
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: of that thinking going on in the Democratic Party. But

1324
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: you know, I was looking at the numbers of just

1325
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 2: in terms of the immediate term impact of the corporate

1326
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 2: enforcement actions that were previously occurring under the Biden.

1327
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 3: Administration, a quarter of them have been dropped.

1328
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: So like it's just open season for you know, all

1329
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 2: these corporations, whether they were you know, under investigation from

1330
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: the CFPB or the SEC or the National Labor Relations Board,

1331
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: et cetera. It's huge numbers of those enforcement actions have

1332
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 2: been dropped. You know, in terms of talent you have had,

1333
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure the numbers at this point, but you've

1334
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: had significant numbers of federal employees who have either taken

1335
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: the fork in the road or they've been fired, pushed down,

1336
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 2: et cetera.

1337
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 3: And some of those.

1338
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 2: People, a lot of those people are the types that

1339
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 2: they had another opportunity in the private sector. They were

1340
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:02,120
Speaker 2: the more valuable federal gard and employees. Getting that talent

1341
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 2: back is very difficult because it's you know, it's a

1342
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 2: hard sell. You're going to make less money working for

1343
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 2: the federal government. Public servants have just been like completely vilified,

1344
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 2: and the idea of even being a quote unquote public

1345
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 2: servant is sort of like under attack. So that expertise

1346
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: isn't something that's easy to return. So in any case,

1347
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 2: in my estimation, they're doing a lot of significant damage

1348
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: that's going to cause a lot of long term problems.

1349
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 3: And you know, I.

1350
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 2: Don't Democrats are may have aspirations to be able, like

1351
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 2: Tim Wall said, to be able to build it back

1352
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: more effective, stronger, better expertise, et cetera.

1353
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 3: But you know that's a big ask. So we'll see.

1354
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 2: A little while back, and extraordinary scene played out in

1355
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 2: the White House. During a gathering of governors, Trump singled

1356
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: out the governor of Maine, Janet Mills, to chide her

1357
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,320
Speaker 2: for that state's policy with regard to trans athletes.

1358
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 3: Take a listen.

1359
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 5: The NCAA has complied immediately, by the way, that's good,

1360
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 5: But I understand Maine is the Maine here, the governor

1361
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 5: of may are you not going to comply with it? Well,

1362
01:06:14,920 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 5: we are the federal law. Well you better do it.

1363
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 5: You better do it because you're not going to get

1364
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 5: any federal funding at all if you don't. And by

1365
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 5: the way, your population, even though it's somewhat liberal, orthough

1366
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 5: I did very well there. Your population doesn't want men

1367
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 5: playing in women's sports. So you better comply because otherwise

1368
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 5: you're not getting any federal funding. Every state.

1369
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 11: Good.

1370
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 5: I'll see you, and could I look forward to that.

1371
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 5: That should be a really easy one. And enjoy your

1372
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 5: life after, governor, because I don't think you'll be in

1373
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 5: elected politics.

1374
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 2: So what happened next is probably not going to be

1375
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 2: a big surprise to you. In short order, the state

1376
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: of Maine found itself under assault by Trump's federal government bureaucracy.

1377
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 2: So first, the Department of Education announced it was investigating

1378
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 2: the state in a specific school district where a trans

1379
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 2: athlete had been allowed to compete. That investigation threatens the

1380
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 2: four point eight billion dollars that main public schools received

1381
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: from the federal government. Now maybe you think, look, it's

1382
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 2: an education related issue, agree or disagree, not out of

1383
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 2: bounds for the Department of Education to investigate. But the

1384
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 2: retaliation did not stop there, not even close. Next, the

1385
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: Department of Health and Human Services began investigating the main

1386
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 2: education system to include the main university system. Four days later,

1387
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 2: that quote unquote investigation was completed, finding they violated Title nine,

1388
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 2: placing their funding in doubt. They even took the extraordinary

1389
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 2: step of referring the matter to the Department of Justice.

1390
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: And as part of this investigation, not a single witness

1391
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 2: was interviewed, not a single data set requested. Shortly thereafter,

1392
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 2: Attorney General Pambondi did threaten the state with a lawsuit.

1393
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 2: Then came a Department of Agriculture or investigation threatening the

1394
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars main land grant universities that amount

1395
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 2: that they received from the Agricultural Research Service and National

1396
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 2: Institute of Food and Agriculture. Next, the National Oceanic and

1397
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 2: Atmospheric Administration pulled the Main Sea Grant, which supported thousands

1398
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 2: of jobs over decades and coastal communities focused specifically.

1399
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 3: On the fishing industry. And finally, in maybe.

1400
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 2: The most bizarre move of all, the Social Security Administration

1401
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 2: terminated the Enumeration at birth process now that allows new

1402
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 2: parents to get a Social Security number for their babies

1403
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 2: simply by checking a box on a form while they're

1404
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 2: still in the hospital. Instead, exhausted new parents would have

1405
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 2: to tote their newborn to one of the now beleaguered

1406
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 2: Social Security field offices, where they would likely have to

1407
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: wait hours to accomplish something that previously took seconds. They

1408
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 2: also ended the auto processing for funeral homes for people

1409
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,479
Speaker 2: who had died, cruelly forcing grooving loved ones to spend

1410
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 2: hours working to inform the government that their spouse or

1411
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,439
Speaker 2: dad or mom or whoever, had in fact died.

1412
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 5: Now.

1413
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 2: When first confronted over this particular attack, Leland Dudik, who's

1414
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: the stooge but in charge of Social Security Administration, as

1415
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,560
Speaker 2: a reward for helping out the DOCH hackers. He originally

1416
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 2: claimed this was all just an innocent mistake. This was,

1417
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 2: of course, always pretty hard to believe given the overall

1418
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,400
Speaker 2: targeting of Maine, and now Dudek has just out and

1419
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: out admitted that he was lying and did in fact

1420
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 2: do it all out of spite. As Tuesday, why he

1421
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: singled out Maine, whose Democratic governor, the Washington Post notes,

1422
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 2: Janet Mills, has fought the White House ban on transgender

1423
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,640
Speaker 2: athletes participating in girls' sports. Dudak acknowledged, quote, I was

1424
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 2: upset with the governor's treatment of the President. Now, in

1425
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 2: some ways, the fact that Dudek may not have been

1426
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 2: instructed directly is to take that action makes it even

1427
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 2: more extraordinary. This is why lackeys like him are put

1428
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 2: in charge. They follow the lead of the King, punishing

1429
01:09:34,320 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 2: his enemies without even needing to be told exactly how.

1430
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 2: That is the entire reason they're there, after all, he

1431
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 2: understands the assignment. Now, the punishing of Maine is a

1432
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 2: case study in their broader strategy to crush political opponents

1433
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 2: and scare people into compliance. That's why California's wildfire relief

1434
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 2: funding was threatened why judges are being threatened with impeachment,

1435
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 2: why media organizations are being sued, investigated, and branded illegal.

1436
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 2: It's also likely the reason why Trump is attempting to

1437
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: fight the two Democratic members of the FTC board.

1438
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 3: The FDC has a lot of power.

1439
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 2: It can give favored companies the go ahead for their

1440
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,880
Speaker 2: mergers and deals, or it can make life health for them,

1441
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 2: causing them financial issues. He was likely fearful that the

1442
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 2: Democratic board members would be interested in fairly applying antitrust law,

1443
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 2: not using those powers as a cudgel to punish or

1444
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 2: reward on his behalf. Now, this abandonment of even the

1445
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 2: appearance of an independent bureaucracy means we are entering a

1446
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 2: new era in American politics. It used to be a

1447
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 2: great scandal when bureaucrats were suspected of using their powers

1448
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 2: to punish the political enemies of the president. Does the

1449
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: name Lois Learner ring a bell here? Sager remembers he

1450
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 2: was at the center of a giant Obama era scandal

1451
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: that centered on whether or not TEA party groups had

1452
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:46,759
Speaker 2: been targeted by the IRS.

1453
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 3: This was huge news at the time.

1454
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 2: Under Trump two point zero, it's just kind of taken

1455
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,680
Speaker 2: for granted that friends of Trump and Elon they're going

1456
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 2: to be helped, and political and ideological enemies they're going

1457
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 2: to be screwed across them, and you can kiss your

1458
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 2: disaster relief goodbye.

1459
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 3: I for your loyal service.

1460
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 2: Though maybe he'll tweet about your favored shit goin, or

1461
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: even pump it up through the new.

1462
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 3: Crypto Reserve, who knows.

1463
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 2: Now, some of you might believe that aspects of the

1464
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,440
Speaker 2: federal government were weaponized against Trump under Biden, most specifically

1465
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 2: a Department of Justice. Now you know, I don't agree

1466
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 2: with that assessment, but let's say you feel that way,

1467
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 2: it should actually give you an even greater appreciation for

1468
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 2: why it is so important to try to keep the

1469
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 2: functions of our government as neutral as possible. Because while

1470
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 2: the government has never held to this ideal perfectly, let's

1471
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 2: be clear, what we're seeing now with Trump is something else,

1472
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: entirely in typical Trumpian fashion. His weaponization of the government.

1473
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 2: It is brazen, it is heavy handed, it is out

1474
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,040
Speaker 2: in the open, and it is so much worse than

1475
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 2: anything we've seen in modern history, so much so that

1476
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: in a few short months he has demolished even the

1477
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:48,200
Speaker 2: expectation of an even handed bureaucracy and replaced it with

1478
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 2: an expectation that it will be wielded to crush anyone

1479
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: who intentionally or accidentally stumbles into his disfavor. Now the oligarchs,

1480
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 2: of course, they instantly understood this new order. That's why

1481
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 2: they all were lined up behind Trump at the inauguration,

1482
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 2: showering him with cash and with flattery. If you think

1483
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 2: through that, this whole of government retribution system will only

1484
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 2: be applied to large organizations, states, media organizations, law firms,

1485
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Though, Mackmoud Khalil's case should prove

1486
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 2: to you that any individual who gets crossbys with this

1487
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 2: administration can find themselves destroyed. In fact, a French scientist

1488
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 2: was just blocked from entering the country because he had

1489
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 2: some critical comments about Trump on his phone. When it

1490
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 2: was searched by DHS, they said his private messages were

1491
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:36,240
Speaker 2: hateful and conspiratorial and could be deemed terrorism. He was

1492
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 2: deported the following day. Just think of all the ways

1493
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 2: you rely on the government to not screw you. Maybe

1494
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 2: you need your Social Security check or your passport renewed,

1495
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 2: or would prefer not to get audited every single year.

1496
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 2: They can make you miserable without even breaking a sweat. Now,

1497
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 2: weaponized bureaucracies like this they're pretty common around the world,

1498
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 2: though they're typically associated with some developing world strongman type.

1499
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 2: It's a good way to get order people to just

1500
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 2: keep their heads down, try to avoid earning the ire

1501
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 2: of the king. But there's also reason to believe that

1502
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 2: in this age of DOGE and AI, it could actually

1503
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 2: get so much worse. There's reporting to suggest one goal

1504
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 2: of DOGE is to consolidate all of the disparate data

1505
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:19,839
Speaker 2: sets that various government databases hold into one place business

1506
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 2: loan applications, mortgage applications, student loan data, child support payments,

1507
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 2: tax famous income, every bit of it. There is also

1508
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:30,759
Speaker 2: reporting that this administration is already using AI to crawl

1509
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 2: through social media profiles to identify people who have engaged

1510
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 2: in wrong thinks, specifically on the issue of Israel. Put

1511
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 2: all of this together, and the possibilities for abuse are endless.

1512
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 2: In the same way that Israel's use of AI accelerated

1513
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 2: its genocidal attacks by generating massless of targets that they

1514
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 2: could then assault, AI unleashed on the entire data set

1515
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 2: of the federal government could vastly accelerate the ability to

1516
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 2: punish anyone who expressed a negative opinion about Trump or

1517
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 2: Elan or Doze or Tesla or Israel, or indicated any

1518
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 2: sort of liberal inclination whatsoever. It could actually be done automatically,

1519
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 2: no cumbersome bureaucracy required. We have seen the way that

1520
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 2: this government has already approached mass removal of documents, grants,

1521
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 2: historical records, programs, etc. That happened to include some word

1522
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 2: from a list of banned words that they think code liberal,

1523
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 2: Like how they deleted all of the information about the

1524
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 2: Onola Gay, the bomber that dropped an atom bomb on Japan,

1525
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 2: simply because it contained the word gay.

1526
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 3: Now imagine that.

1527
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 2: Approach applied to the entire population. You better not chat

1528
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: about diversifying your portfolio or trading equities. Better not be

1529
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: helping your kid with their inequality's math homework. Say Gulf

1530
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 2: of Mexico once, and those doge boys will mark you

1531
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:51,160
Speaker 2: dead in Social Security before you could say LATINX. It's

1532
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: kind of funny. I guess it's completely crazy, But the

1533
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 2: possibility for crushing speech is way too real, and for

1534
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 2: punishing dissidents. Governor of Maine sounded exactly this alarm after

1535
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 2: seeing the way the government launched an assault on her

1536
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 2: entire state over her audacity to challenge the president, she wrote, quote,

1537
01:15:09,240 --> 01:15:12,639
Speaker 2: you must ask yourself who and what will he target next?

1538
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 3: And what will he do?

1539
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 2: Mills continued, Will it be you? Will it be because

1540
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,800
Speaker 2: of your race or your religion? Will it be because

1541
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 2: you look different or think differently? Where does it end?

1542
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 9: Now?

1543
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:23,800
Speaker 2: Man got lucky in a certain respect. They happen to

1544
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 2: have a Republican senator. She was able to plead the

1545
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 2: state's case to the King. Some of the retaliation was

1546
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 2: rolled back, like, for example, that main c Grant thing

1547
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 2: over at Social Security. Dudeck says he came to regret

1548
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 2: his actions there. But I bet Governor Mills she's gonna

1549
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 2: think twice before she displeases Trump again, isn't she. I

1550
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: bet every governor in the country knows the set of

1551
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,599
Speaker 2: acts I just laid out. It's gonna think twice before

1552
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 2: they speak out on any issue and earn the ire

1553
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 2: of this president. I bet there are plenty of would

1554
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 2: be protesters who see Israel returning to its genocide in

1555
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 2: Gaza greenlit by the Trump administration, or gonna think twice

1556
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:04,599
Speaker 2: about protesting because of how Machmoud Khalil was targeted. And

1557
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 2: this is just the beginning the whims of a dictator

1558
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 2: combined with a fully compliant bureaucracy backed by the world's

1559
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 2: richest man, and finally turbocharge with the extraordinary power of AI,

1560
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 2: the tech enabled strongman, possibilities are limitless and the main example,

1561
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 2: like how do you feel about the issue is not

1562
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 2: really important. She pissed him off, and there are a

1563
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 2: million reasons that you could end up pissing off to

1564
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 2: up Trump, and he has already demonstrated how he will

1565
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,960
Speaker 2: use the USDA, the National Oceanic Administration, the Department of Education,

1566
01:16:36,280 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 2: the HHS, Social Security, every tool in the toolkit to

1567
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 2: make you.

1568
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 1: Pay Trump's What Trump has done is is unsubtle. I

1569
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: guess like you were talking about the lowest learner thing.

1570
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,719
Speaker 1: I mean it is complicated because at the same time,

1571
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:53,080
Speaker 1: federal funding is genuinely too at the discretionary of the

1572
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: unitary executive and the bureaucracy. Like estates are not owed money.

1573
01:16:57,400 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: For example, the University of Pennsylvania just got itself cut

1574
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: off over transgender sports policy, and people are like, oh,

1575
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 1: this is horrible. It's like, well, you don't have a

1576
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: right to federal money. You know, the federal government has

1577
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 1: very often used its money as a cudgel to force

1578
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:13,360
Speaker 1: laws on the books. Speed limits is the most famous example.

1579
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: Same with seat belts.

1580
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:14,759
Speaker 3: Right.

1581
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,799
Speaker 1: But but the point is is that it's this has always

1582
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: kind of been there, and it is. The problem is

1583
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: is that no executive has used this before in a

1584
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: less subtle, in a less unsubtle way. No executive has

1585
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: done this before out of a norm's respect. But it

1586
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 1: doesn't actually stop you ever from having been able to

1587
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: do this from a legal perspective, if that makes sense.

1588
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: And this has long been a conservative argument, is that

1589
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: the left uses the government as a tool of its

1590
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:50,639
Speaker 1: own social engineering policy DEI and all that other stuff,

1591
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 1: perfect example, why would we not do the same. And

1592
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,680
Speaker 1: in a sense, I'm like, I'm somewhat sympathetic to that argument.

1593
01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 2: Right, I hear what you're saying, But you have to acknowledge, like,

1594
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,799
Speaker 2: this is not even so much about policy. It's about

1595
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 2: punishing people, institutions, groups that are political opponents to you,

1596
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 2: and political alternative political power centers.

1597
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:17,240
Speaker 3: It's the same.

1598
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 2: You know, this is part and parcel with using quote

1599
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 2: unquote anti semitism to to defenestrate the university system. You know,

1600
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 2: he doesn't care about anti semitism, but he sees this

1601
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 2: is a thing out there that he can use to

1602
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 2: hurt universities. And he doesn't like universities, you know, California,

1603
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 2: Like they didn't come to the White House and say

1604
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: a thing about trans kids that he didn't like. They

1605
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: vote the wrong way, and so now maybe it's going

1606
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: to do their wild fire funding. Maybe he's not their

1607
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 2: disaster relief. I mean that one in particular you have

1608
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:54,759
Speaker 2: to admit is it's such a break from we've always

1609
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 2: had the view of doesn't matter if your state is

1610
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 2: red or blue or purple or whatever, like, when you

1611
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 2: need help, the federal goverment is going to be totally

1612
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:02,640
Speaker 2: for you.

1613
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1614
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,799
Speaker 3: Now it's like yeah maybe.

1615
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,360
Speaker 2: And so I'm not saying that the federal government has

1616
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 2: never been webinized against anyone and they've been perfect. I'm

1617
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 2: not saying that, But what I am saying is that

1618
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:15,280
Speaker 2: that was the baseline expectation.

1619
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 3: There was an expectation that if you.

1620
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 2: Are an individual going in to you know, get your

1621
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 2: security check issue resolved, they're not going to be looking

1622
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 2: up in some database to see if you said something

1623
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:31,519
Speaker 2: mean about Donald Trump or about Tesla or whatever to

1624
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:32,600
Speaker 2: decide whether they're going to.

1625
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:33,160
Speaker 3: Help you or not.

1626
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 2: And I think those sorts of possibilities are very much

1627
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,360
Speaker 2: on the table now, especially when you look at like

1628
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 2: that case of the French scientists who they looked at

1629
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:43,680
Speaker 2: his phone and were like, oh, you were mean to

1630
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. You can't come in the country. Like that's

1631
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,759
Speaker 2: new and different. You have another case, similar to Mackmoud Khalil,

1632
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 2: of a professor here in Georgetown whose wife is an

1633
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 2: American citizen and he is now being detained because of

1634
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 2: her the MA con citizens suspected beliefs with regard to

1635
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 2: Israel after he was targeted on a list from these

1636
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 2: prozionist groups. Totally, so all of these things together it

1637
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 2: has created already, I think, a totally different understanding and

1638
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 2: framework for the federal government bureaucracy that truly is a

1639
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: break from the expectation of the past that it would

1640
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 2: be more or less neutral in terms of day to

1641
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: day interactions, how they handle things like disaster relief, et cetera.

1642
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: No, I mean disaster relief is the one where you're

1643
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,560
Speaker 1: one hundred percent correct. I mean same on the I

1644
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 1: mean the Israel one is just that to me is

1645
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: always again the most ridiculous, because we're literally talking about

1646
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: criticism of a foreign government. I also think it's a

1647
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: big free First Amendment, a lot of justification there because

1648
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: beyond even as you and I and we disagree on

1649
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: deportation et cetera, especially like my thing with mak mukhalil Is,

1650
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: I don't think he should be deported for what he said,

1651
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: but I still think he's going to get deported. The

1652
01:20:56,960 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: bigger problem for me it is actually these Columbia students

1653
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:03,679
Speaker 1: who are getting expelled because of pressure from the federal

1654
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: government because of their own speech. That is one where

1655
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: you are a United States citizen and the federal government

1656
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 1: itself is actually using it a cudgel to infringe upon

1657
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 1: your ability for the education that you were accepted and

1658
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,200
Speaker 1: that you have been enrolled in this institution, and they're

1659
01:21:18,200 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: effectively depriving you of that ability through the cudgel of

1660
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 1: their government. Same with Social Security right, the same thing.

1661
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: It's like, you are a United States citizen, you've paid

1662
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: within the system, You literally have earned your right that

1663
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 1: is not subject to your political wins. I would say

1664
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: the same with California, and California's paid way more into

1665
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: the federal government than anything they've ever taken out of it,

1666
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,639
Speaker 1: which they'll never forget in reminding you. But they're not wrong.

1667
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can be all your house burns down, yeah,

1668
01:21:42,840 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: you better help us out. So yeah, that's where I think,

1669
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, that's the real danger.

1670
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:48,759
Speaker 2: I think that there's Yeah, I mean the social Security

1671
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 2: thing in Maine was crazy and that he just admitted, like, yeah,

1672
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 2: I did it because I was not at the governor. Well, like,

1673
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 2: I mean, first of all, we shouldn't be thinking in

1674
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 2: terms of like punishing the entire citizens of any state

1675
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 2: because you don't like that action, you don't like what

1676
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: their leader said to the president is crazy. But I

1677
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 2: mean to Trump's point, I looked it up, forty five

1678
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 2: percent and main did vote for him, and you're punishing

1679
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 2: you're punishing all those people.

1680
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 1: It's like a Redish state. It's genuine. I mean usually

1681
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 1: goes blue in the presidential but like they've got you know, Susan.

1682
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 2: They had that crazy Republican governor. I'm forgetting his name, Paige, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1683
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 2: that was that guy was wild so yeah, main man

1684
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 2: can go all kinds of ways, like politically.

1685
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: I consider myself a manor in spirit out you're interesting.

1686
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,719
Speaker 2: People anyway, we have are looking forward to this conversation

1687
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 2: with Derek Thompson. If you've been anywhere online, you may

1688
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,960
Speaker 2: have seen this abundance discourse that we wanted to dig

1689
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 2: in the book that he just published alongside as Reclined.

1690
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 3: So let's go ahead and get to that.

1691
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:48,320
Speaker 1: Joining is now great friend of the show, Jerrick Thompson,

1692
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,680
Speaker 1: and he is out with the new book which is

1693
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 1: just seemingly everywhere Abundance that he co authored with Ezra Clined.

1694
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: So the theme of the book is quote to trace

1695
01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 1: the history of the twenty first century, so far to

1696
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 1: trace the history of unaffordability and shortage. After years of

1697
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: refusing to build sufficient housing, America has a national housing crisis.

1698
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 1: He goes on that Abundance explains our problems today are

1699
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: not the results of yesteryear's villains. Rather, one generation solutions

1700
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 1: have become the next generation's problems. The book actually seeks

1701
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: to put forward some solutions. So Derek just at the

1702
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 1: top here for people who aren't familiar with abundance discourse,

1703
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,320
Speaker 1: there's been quite a bit here that is online. First,

1704
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 1: just tell us, like why you guys felt compelled to

1705
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 1: write the book, and then how you feel that the book,

1706
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 1: How the book is intended to be received. Is it

1707
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 1: a project twenty twenty five? Is it a political answer?

1708
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 1: Is it all of the above? What is your guys's

1709
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,280
Speaker 1: conception of it?

1710
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 10: It's a great question. I love this great a beginning.

1711
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 11: So we started writing this book two and a half

1712
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 11: years ago when we were motivated by and scandalized by

1713
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 11: exactly what you said, the crises of manufactured scarcity in

1714
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 11: the twenty first century. Why aren't there enough homes? Why

1715
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 11: isn't there enough clean energy? Why is governance often in

1716
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 11: blue cities and blue states so bad that it seems

1717
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 11: to be driving many people away? Why doesn't the Democratic

1718
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:08,320
Speaker 11: Party have an invention agenda, given how central science and

1719
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 11: technology are to human progress. These are the questions that

1720
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 11: really animated the project. But I think it's really important

1721
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 11: to ground the fact that the book came out in

1722
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 11: March twenty twenty five, because you look back over the

1723
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 11: last six months of news.

1724
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:23,759
Speaker 10: Why did Donald Trump just win the election?

1725
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 11: If you ask PW, if you ask Gallop, if you

1726
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 11: asked David Shore, and the twenty eight million people that

1727
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,840
Speaker 11: he surveyed, the answer is all the same.

1728
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 10: It's affordability, affordability, affordability.

1729
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 11: People feel like there's an affordability crisis in this country,

1730
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 11: and the biggest part of anybody's budget is housing. So

1731
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 11: at this center of an affordability crisis is a housing

1732
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 11: affordability crisis. Donald Trump won because of an affordability crisis,

1733
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 11: and my feeling is he came into office and could

1734
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 11: have said, like I'm going to govern as a text

1735
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 11: in Republican, I'm going to make it as easy as

1736
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 11: possible for us to build homes. I'm going to do

1737
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 11: everything I can to drive down the cost of housing.

1738
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 11: But instead, one of the first things he does is

1739
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,800
Speaker 11: to raise terror rifts on Mexico and Canada. That's a

1740
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 11: twenty five percent bump on the cost of lumber and

1741
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 11: drywall gypsum, which we get from Mexico.

1742
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:07,320
Speaker 10: The lumber comes from Canada.

1743
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:11,120
Speaker 11: This is a plan to treat scarcity of housing with

1744
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 11: yet more scarcity.

1745
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 10: So I really want to emphasize it.

1746
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,000
Speaker 11: Agree to which we strongly believe that there is a

1747
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 11: totally different way to think about growing the supply of

1748
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:21,719
Speaker 11: the most important things.

1749
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:22,120
Speaker 10: In this country.

1750
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:22,559
Speaker 1: Got it.

1751
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 2: So you have a lot of critics on the left.

1752
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:26,960
Speaker 2: You also have some fans on the left, but you

1753
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 2: have a lot of critics on the left. I'm not

1754
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 2: a hater of abundance, but my own assessment is that

1755
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 2: it misses some things and maybe it's not meant to

1756
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 2: be a complete ideology, which is part of what I

1757
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 2: want you to respond to, because you know, the with

1758
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 2: housing in particular, I'm in favor of a more yimbi

1759
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: mindset of reducing these zoning regulations, et cetera. But we

1760
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 2: can put put this tear sheet up on the screen, guys,

1761
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 2: effort teach out and had I think a good response

1762
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:56,160
Speaker 2: to the Abundance to your book and some of the

1763
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 2: ideas offered therein. And she says basically like, look, some

1764
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 2: of these things have been tried and it hasn't really

1765
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 2: solved the problem. She points to a study from the

1766
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 2: Urban Institute of Land Use reforms across eleven hundred plus

1767
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:11,120
Speaker 2: cities from two thousand and twenty nineteen found they that

1768
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,400
Speaker 2: those sorts of reforms increase the housing supply by only

1769
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 2: zero point eight percent within three to nine years of passage.

1770
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:20,040
Speaker 3: So when I look at that.

1771
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, well, what is missing from this picture.

1772
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:25,000
Speaker 2: I think part of what is missing is this overall

1773
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 2: landscape of inequality, corporate consolidation, of power, money in politics.

1774
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 2: Because even when you strip away the regulations, guess what,

1775
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:37,440
Speaker 2: the people who have money in this country are overwhelmingly

1776
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 2: the super rich. That's who companies want to cater to.

1777
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 2: You have massive consolidation within the industry of developers, so

1778
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 2: they're you know, giant monopolies at this point. And so

1779
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 2: even with the regulation stripped away, they're like, yeah, but

1780
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to build luxury mansions because that's who has

1781
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 2: the money. I'm going to build luxury condos, so that's

1782
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 2: who has the money. So, you know, do you mean

1783
01:26:57,439 --> 01:26:59,719
Speaker 2: for this to be a sort of like complete theory

1784
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 2: of what what's going on? Or is it like, you know,

1785
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 2: this is one piece that we're looking at seriously so

1786
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 2: that if Democrats get back in power, we have these

1787
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 2: governance pieces kind of ready to go.

1788
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,080
Speaker 11: It's such a good question, and there's so much there.

1789
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:14,519
Speaker 11: I'm going to try to touch on as much of

1790
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 11: it as I can keep in my head. Yeah, trying

1791
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,640
Speaker 11: to usher in a paradigm shift we think that liberalism

1792
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,719
Speaker 11: of the last fifty years has become consumed by process

1793
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 11: and not consumed by outcomes. And that's how you get

1794
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 11: a world ware in San Francisco. If you want to

1795
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 11: build a new apartment building with public money, there are

1796
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,519
Speaker 11: so many riders attached to that public money that in

1797
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:36,519
Speaker 11: fact developers have essentially pulled out and said we don't

1798
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 11: want to build social housing at all.

1799
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 10: It's a worldware.

1800
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 11: In twenty twenty one, when there is a development that

1801
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 11: was being discussed to put up a five hundred units

1802
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 11: in a Nordstrom valet parking lot, one hundred of which

1803
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 11: would have been below market rent. In fact, the Board

1804
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:57,280
Speaker 11: of Supervisors of San Francisco voted it down because it didn't.

1805
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 10: Pass sufficient environmental review.

1806
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,960
Speaker 11: It's a thicket of laws and reviews and customs that

1807
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 11: have grown up in the last fifty years. Their environmental laws,

1808
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:12,200
Speaker 11: their legal norms. Sometimes they're just a sense of empowered gentry,

1809
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 11: empowered homeowners who want to stop any new development that

1810
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 11: could possibly threaten their home values. This set of rules

1811
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 11: and customs of laws has I think accumulated over the

1812
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 11: last fifty years without a sufficient CounterPunch, we become so processed,

1813
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:28,599
Speaker 11: obsessed that we haven't sort of cleared the brush and thought, wait,

1814
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 11: this is about building houses for people to live. You

1815
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 11: mentioned the fact that you know, we live in a

1816
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 11: time I think of concerning income and equality, absolutely and

1817
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 11: even incipient oligarchy. But I would frame it a little

1818
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 11: bit this way. Is oligarchy worse in Utah than in California.

1819
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 11: Is oligarchy worse in Texas than California. Is oligarchy worse

1820
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 11: in say, Georgia than Massachusetts. The problems of oligarchy are national,

1821
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 11: and yet we very clearly see that different cities and

1822
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 11: states have tremendously different outcomes when it comes to the

1823
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 11: ability to add housing.

1824
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 2: So I would say, I would say, actually, to respond

1825
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 2: to that directly, I actually do think the problem of

1826
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 2: oligarchy is worse in a place like or at least

1827
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:18,759
Speaker 2: inequality is worse in a city like San Francisco, New York, Miami,

1828
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 2: places that are magnets not just domestically but globally for

1829
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 2: the richest of the rich. You know, you end up

1830
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,920
Speaker 2: with this sort of superclass of people who can spend

1831
01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: the millions of millions of dollars that it takes and

1832
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,719
Speaker 2: then an underclass of people who are there to serve

1833
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 2: them who can't afford rent. So I actually this which

1834
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 2: gets to another one of my questions to you, and

1835
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:43,960
Speaker 2: one of the critiques that I've seen of the book

1836
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 2: and the paradigm shift contained therein is that there's a

1837
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:51,880
Speaker 2: couple of assumptions that are taken here. One is that

1838
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 2: the right way to organize our society is having these

1839
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:59,479
Speaker 2: giant megalopolises, the San Francisco's, the las, the New York's

1840
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 2: of the world, where you know, it wasn't always the case.

1841
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,719
Speaker 2: We used to have thriving manufacturing and other industry throughout

1842
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 2: the country, so people were.

1843
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:08,320
Speaker 3: More widely spread out.

1844
01:30:08,360 --> 01:30:11,360
Speaker 2: Obviously, that helps with being able to afford housing because

1845
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 2: you just have a more dispersed population. That's number one.

1846
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,040
Speaker 2: And then number two related to that is is the

1847
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 2: focus too much on these cities. So and this gets

1848
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,559
Speaker 2: back to the question of whether this is a governing agenda,

1849
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 2: a political like electoral political agenda, or both, because obviously,

1850
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, Democrats have slid a little bit in the cities,

1851
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 2: but they still perform really well in these giant cities.

1852
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 2: We don't really need Democrat the Democratic Party to do

1853
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 2: better in San Francisco. So is the project also a

1854
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:44,240
Speaker 2: little too focused on these giant urban city centers and

1855
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 2: taking for granted that that's where the core of you know,

1856
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 2: American innovation and prosperity and just population density should really be.

1857
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 10: I love this question. There's so much here.

1858
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 11: Let me let me let me try to consolidate it

1859
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 11: into into an answer that matches everything you put on

1860
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 11: the table. Let's say the outcome that you cared about,

1861
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:08,800
Speaker 11: because we believe in an outcome based liberalism, Let's say

1862
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 11: the outcome that you really cared about was income and equality. Well,

1863
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 11: of course you would want there to be a tax

1864
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 11: and span redistribution policy, right. You might want to expand

1865
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 11: the EITC. You might want to expand child tax credits,

1866
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:21,880
Speaker 11: you might want to expand welfare.

1867
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 10: All of these are important.

1868
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 11: But if you're really interested in reducing inequality, I think

1869
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 11: you should be absolutely obsessed with urban housing policy. The

1870
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 11: Harvard economist Roschetty has pointed out that upward mobility in

1871
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 11: this country, when you build a map of it and

1872
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,559
Speaker 11: see you know, who has the best chance of being

1873
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 11: born into a lower or working class and working their

1874
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:45,719
Speaker 11: way into the upper middle class, it's in these cities.

1875
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 11: It's close to these cities. If we want to give

1876
01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:50,639
Speaker 11: more Americans a chance to move forward in their life,

1877
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,080
Speaker 11: we should make it easier for people to live where

1878
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 11: they want to live, especially if those are some of

1879
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:59,519
Speaker 11: the highest, most productive, most highly productive cities in the country.

1880
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,200
Speaker 11: In fact, Crystal from much of the last century, this

1881
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,519
Speaker 11: is how American migration worked. If you were working class,

1882
01:32:07,680 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 11: you would move closer to these cities, and it would

1883
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 11: benefit you because the housing costs wouldn't overwhelm the income

1884
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 11: benefits that you would move, that you would gain from

1885
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:19,600
Speaker 11: moving to a high income place. But something is unwound

1886
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 11: very very much in the last fifty years, where it's

1887
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 11: the cheapest places in the country that have the lowest

1888
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 11: upward mobility, and it's the most expensive places in the

1889
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 11: country that have the highest upper mobility. And so in

1890
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 11: a way you can say it's like the American dream

1891
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 11: has been torn apart. People have to choose between affordable

1892
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 11: living and the chance of moving forward in their life.

1893
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,960
Speaker 11: That's a terrible, terrible thing for any country that considers

1894
01:32:43,960 --> 01:32:47,599
Speaker 11: itself the land of free opportunity. We want to build

1895
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 11: a place where build a country where people can move

1896
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,679
Speaker 11: to where they want to move, and people can stay

1897
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 11: where they want to stay. That's not the world we

1898
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 11: have in San Francisco and New York and Boston and Washington,

1899
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:01,639
Speaker 11: d C. And Los Angeles, in Seattle, and some people

1900
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 11: don't want to live there, and that's totally fine. And

1901
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 11: our project is like not some grand design to force

1902
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 11: everybody to live in a skyscraper. People should live or

1903
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 11: they want to live. But part of freedom is being

1904
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:14,160
Speaker 11: able to live near these cities if you want to

1905
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 11: stay there or work there. And that's where it's unbelievably urgent.

1906
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 11: I think for the liberals and the Democrats who hold

1907
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 11: so much power in these places, to use that power

1908
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,680
Speaker 11: as an advertisement for our cause, to say, look what

1909
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,559
Speaker 11: happens when you give us the reins and you give

1910
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 11: us all of the authority, we produce outcomes like affordability

1911
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,679
Speaker 11: and upward mobility and low crime and fantastic living arrangements

1912
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:38,160
Speaker 11: for people.

1913
01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:38,959
Speaker 10: Instead.

1914
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,519
Speaker 11: Right now, what's happening is that many blue cities and

1915
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:45,360
Speaker 11: blue states have turned into anti advertisements for the liberal movement.

1916
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 11: As we say in the book, I think this is

1917
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 11: Ezra's line. I have to say, you know, democrats should

1918
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 11: be able to say, vote for us, and we'll make

1919
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,679
Speaker 11: America like California. And what's happened in the last few

1920
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,679
Speaker 11: years is that Republicans have found advantage in saying vote

1921
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 11: for Democrats and the America like California. This is not

1922
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 11: the world we.

1923
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 10: Want to live in.

1924
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 11: And frankly, if these are the results that liberals are getting,

1925
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 11: they don't deserve to win at the national level. What

1926
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 11: we want to change is we want to change the

1927
01:34:11,479 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 11: meaning of the Democratic party, the valance of the Democratic parties,

1928
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 11: starting with effective governance where we whole power the most.

1929
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 1: Do you worry, Derek that this leads to a bit

1930
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,920
Speaker 1: of a cultural imbalance, because part of what you know,

1931
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,680
Speaker 1: make America more like Texas, or make America more like

1932
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:27,240
Speaker 1: Georgia is not, you know, like you said, living in

1933
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 1: skyscrapers or even smaller. It's really about space and abundance.

1934
01:34:31,400 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 1: There also comes along with a cultural element of like

1935
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 1: you just can kind of do whatever you want to

1936
01:34:37,080 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 1: do without monolithic like beliefs being shoved in your face.

1937
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: So I think those two things do go hand in hand.

1938
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 1: Let's say, for the five hundred thousand people who left

1939
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: the California state of California for Texas and for Florida

1940
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 1: that obviously was very important to them. How do you

1941
01:34:50,479 --> 01:34:53,760
Speaker 1: think about that question whenever you're thinking about making California

1942
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 1: San Francisco great again as a template for why somebody

1943
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee, Wisconsin would want to vote for you.

1944
01:35:01,640 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's right. You know, no one's asked that question before.

1945
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 10: That's a really interesting question.

1946
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,960
Speaker 11: So you know, you're talking about this idea of like

1947
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,479
Speaker 11: cultural freedom, of people being able to live the way

1948
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:12,040
Speaker 11: they want to live.

1949
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:13,880
Speaker 10: I think that's fantastic.

1950
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 11: I consider myself essentially a social libertarian, even though those

1951
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 11: ideas aren't particularly present in the book. But when I

1952
01:35:20,200 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 11: think about like the most famous expressions of sort of

1953
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:26,760
Speaker 11: laissez fair live how you want to live, sort of

1954
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 11: cultural libertarianism, I honestly think of cities interesting. I think

1955
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 11: of like New York in the nineteen sixties or San

1956
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:35,639
Speaker 11: Francisco in the nineteen sixties.

1957
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,280
Speaker 10: I think of these places.

1958
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 11: Where all of these new ideas were bursting forth and

1959
01:35:40,439 --> 01:35:43,519
Speaker 11: colliding with each other, where people were having new concepts

1960
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 11: of poetry and music, and you know, different ideas about

1961
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 11: you know, living arrangements and romantic arrangements. You know, if

1962
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 11: what you're interested in is a world where people have

1963
01:35:55,320 --> 01:36:00,479
Speaker 11: this extraordinary freedom to explore their identity in a world

1964
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:03,040
Speaker 11: where other people are exploring their identities. I think any

1965
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:06,120
Speaker 11: honest look at American urban history from the last fifty

1966
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 11: seventy years shows it's cities that have been the cauldron

1967
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:13,639
Speaker 11: of exactly this type of freedom. And of course, if

1968
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 11: people want to live in Georgia with their lawns and

1969
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,200
Speaker 11: their single family houses, there's nothing in this book telling

1970
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:24,360
Speaker 11: them that they're wrong to do. So what we're trying

1971
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 11: to say at a very basic level is there are

1972
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 11: some cities in this country, and at least in the

1973
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 11: house for the housing part, because the the book is capacious,

1974
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:34,840
Speaker 11: but the housing part, there are some cities where the

1975
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 11: rules that we have created have made it impossible for

1976
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,759
Speaker 11: market conditions to work. And while markets are not perfect,

1977
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:42,920
Speaker 11: one thing they're very good at doing is matching supply

1978
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 11: and demand. And right now you have this enormous demand

1979
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:47,880
Speaker 11: to live in places like Washington, D C. And New York,

1980
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,759
Speaker 11: San Francisco, Los Angeles, but you have constraints to supply,

1981
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,640
Speaker 11: and in macroeconomics, one on one, the only thing that

1982
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 11: happens when demand goes like this and supply stays flat,

1983
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 11: is prices go to the moon. Prices are going the moon.

1984
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:03,200
Speaker 11: And it's not just a problem for Los Angeles, it's

1985
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 11: a problem for Democrats nationwide. We just lost Democrats did

1986
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:10,759
Speaker 11: an election that was all about affordability, and so being

1987
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:15,000
Speaker 11: obsessed about the inputs to affordability, I think is essential

1988
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,160
Speaker 11: to any liberal movement making the public feel like we

1989
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:19,439
Speaker 11: care about them again.

1990
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:23,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so the three major components, in my opinion, I

1991
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:26,760
Speaker 2: think in your opinion too, of the affordable crisis affordability

1992
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 2: crisis are housing, education, and healthcare. These are you know,

1993
01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 2: huge ticket items that are central to sort of like

1994
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 2: middle class prosperity and have been skyrocketing over years and years.

1995
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 2: And again when I look at what is causing the

1996
01:37:44,720 --> 01:37:48,800
Speaker 2: massive price escalations in each of those, I agree that

1997
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 2: the story you're telling is part of that story. But

1998
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 2: when I look at you know, like to take healthcare

1999
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 2: as an example, which probably the one of these that

2000
01:37:56,360 --> 01:38:00,120
Speaker 2: I've thought the most about the biggest problem in healthcare,

2001
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:01,879
Speaker 2: and we can see it with how much more efficient

2002
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:04,400
Speaker 2: Medicare is and how much you know, compared to private insurance.

2003
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,439
Speaker 2: It's the profit motive, and so you know where is

2004
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 2: that in the story.

2005
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:13,560
Speaker 3: Because some of the some of the.

2006
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:16,520
Speaker 2: Suggestions you make about how to make healthcare more affordable.

2007
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 2: It sort of reminds me of back during the Obamacare

2008
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 2: debate when Republicans were like, we've got a healthcare plan too,

2009
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 2: you can sell plans across state lines and that'll fix everything.

2010
01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:27,479
Speaker 2: It's like, well, that might make things a little bit better,

2011
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 2: but really, the profit motive and the fact that you've

2012
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 2: got all these middlemen who are taking their cut, and

2013
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 2: you know, we're getting screwed on drug prices, and we're

2014
01:38:36,479 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 2: getting screwed in you know, every the pharmacy benefit managers,

2015
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:43,439
Speaker 2: every single step of this process. That's really the core

2016
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 2: of the story here. So you know, I was listening

2017
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,680
Speaker 2: to Ezra in one of his interviews and he was

2018
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:53,320
Speaker 2: sort of chiding the progressives and the left for looking

2019
01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 2: at models overseas and sal we want to be more

2020
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:57,120
Speaker 2: like them. He's like, well, you should want to be

2021
01:38:57,120 --> 01:39:00,080
Speaker 2: better than them. Okay, fair enough, but it's also true

2022
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:03,080
Speaker 2: that if we just were doing as well on healthcare

2023
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 2: as the rest of the developed world, we would be

2024
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 2: in a much much better place. And while I'm sure

2025
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 2: that you know you want to have more doctors be

2026
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 2: able to come in the country more H one b's

2027
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,479
Speaker 2: for this, and you have additional reforms that you offer.

2028
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,440
Speaker 3: I'm sure those things would help.

2029
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 2: But they would help in the way that sort of

2030
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:22,360
Speaker 2: like Obamacare, I've made it a little better, but the

2031
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 2: problem is still at its core unresolved.

2032
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 11: The way I think about this again, I think there's

2033
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 11: there's a lot of use to being really clear about

2034
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 11: what outcomes you're looking for. So let's say, for the

2035
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 11: purpose of this conversation, because healthcare is a big, big topic,

2036
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:41,640
Speaker 11: what we care about for American health care is it

2037
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 11: healthcare be universal, that it be affordable, not only for individuals,

2038
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 11: but frankly also for the state, because you don't want

2039
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:51,559
Speaker 11: our deficits to reach like five trillion dollars a year

2040
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,800
Speaker 11: in medicare. And also high quality and high quality is

2041
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 11: very very important. Because let's say America had universal health

2042
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:03,519
Speaker 11: care in nineteen forty three, that'd be wonderful from an

2043
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:04,360
Speaker 11: equity standpoint.

2044
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,520
Speaker 10: You would have absolute universal coverage.

2045
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:10,599
Speaker 11: But penicillin didn't exist in nineteen forty three, gop one

2046
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 11: drugs didn't exist.

2047
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:13,600
Speaker 10: Practically, no modern cancer.

2048
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:18,880
Speaker 11: Therapies existed, Liquid IV plastic bags didn't exist. Oximeters didn't exist,

2049
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,240
Speaker 11: cat scans didn't exist, MRIs didn't exist. A part of

2050
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:25,840
Speaker 11: our book is about the centrality of science and technology

2051
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:29,799
Speaker 11: to progressive ends, because what makes a healthcare card valuable

2052
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 11: isn't just the paper itself or the fact that you

2053
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:35,240
Speaker 11: have access to a doctor. It's the services but the

2054
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 11: doctor can provide you as a patient, and enlarging the

2055
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:41,679
Speaker 11: value of those services, I think is a huge part

2056
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 11: of what progressive should focus on if they care about healthcare,

2057
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 11: such as the first point, the second point is that

2058
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,720
Speaker 11: if you ultimately care about managing prices, you're right that

2059
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,640
Speaker 11: there is a lot that we can do outside the

2060
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:55,800
Speaker 11: scope of just science and tech policy. I mean, I

2061
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 11: did a podcast on Plan English about the fact that

2062
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:00,679
Speaker 11: if I was, for whatever reason, this is a DOGE,

2063
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 11: one of the first things I would do is dive

2064
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,760
Speaker 11: directly into Medicare advantage, because it is so clear that

2065
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 11: the Medicare advantage program, which allows seniors to use private insurers,

2066
01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 11: is bilking the federal government of not just a few

2067
01:41:14,160 --> 01:41:15,960
Speaker 11: million dollars here and there, like a lot of the

2068
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:19,400
Speaker 11: DOGE savings are, but maybe tens of billions.

2069
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 10: Of dollars a year over one hundred billion dollars a year.

2070
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 11: If what you care about again is equity and affordability,

2071
01:41:25,240 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 11: we should be obsessed with Medicare advantage. The other point

2072
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 11: I would absolutely grant you is that while I don't

2073
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:35,000
Speaker 11: consider an I trust anti monopoly policy to be utterly

2074
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 11: central to and pore to my vision of progress in America,

2075
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 11: there is no debating the fact that in many healthcare

2076
01:41:41,880 --> 01:41:46,599
Speaker 11: industries like dialysis and healthcare consolidation, we have very clear

2077
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:50,160
Speaker 11: evidence that economists have made quite plain that consolidation in

2078
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 11: these industries and market concentration is driving up costs for

2079
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 11: patients and driving quality down. So this is a place where,

2080
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:01,519
Speaker 11: when it comes to process, comes the tools of my disposal.

2081
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:05,600
Speaker 11: I don't feel particularly jealous about any one set of

2082
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 11: tools that is more popular in the left or the

2083
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 11: center the right. What I'm focused on, and one thing

2084
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:12,559
Speaker 11: I think this book is trying very hard to get

2085
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 11: people to see is outcomes. If you want healthcare that

2086
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:20,519
Speaker 11: is equitable and affordable and high quality, there are different

2087
01:42:20,680 --> 01:42:23,000
Speaker 11: levers you can pull in different ways, and it's not

2088
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:25,160
Speaker 11: as if there's going to be one policy that fixes

2089
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:26,080
Speaker 11: all these things at once.

2090
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 2: Another question I had for you, Derek, we can put

2091
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,679
Speaker 2: G three up on the screen. This was I thought

2092
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:37,920
Speaker 2: an important sort of like contextual critique, given that it

2093
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 2: is coming out in March of twenty twenty five and

2094
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 2: we are watching the doge onslaught like destroying key functions

2095
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 2: of the government, etc.

2096
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:46,599
Speaker 3: This was from someone who.

2097
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:49,920
Speaker 2: Gave a pretty favorable review actually to the book in

2098
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:52,720
Speaker 2: Democracy Journal, and he said, listen, it's too early, but

2099
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 2: Doge onslot because it is a unique challenge on both sides,

2100
01:42:55,160 --> 01:42:57,920
Speaker 2: saying you can do efficiency, but right concedes the thing

2101
01:42:57,960 --> 01:43:00,560
Speaker 2: we shouldn't that Doge is something other than billionaire and

2102
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:03,840
Speaker 2: academy vendor plundering and dismantling the government. Indeed, I say

2103
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:06,160
Speaker 2: in the piece, but worth emphasizing. As Doge takes place,

2104
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 2: the idea that quote unquote good governance is some democratic

2105
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 2: protection here against right wing forces feels pretty flat. The

2106
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 2: CFPB was designed very well, that didn't matter, And you

2107
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,639
Speaker 2: know what he's gesturing towards there is the fact that okay,

2108
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:23,600
Speaker 2: but then when you have the richest man on the

2109
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:26,040
Speaker 2: planet come in and say, yeah, but I don't like this,

2110
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:29,600
Speaker 2: all of the planning and the good governance in the

2111
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:30,920
Speaker 2: fact that the CFPP.

2112
01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:31,679
Speaker 3: Actually delivered for people.

2113
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 2: It ends up not really mattering if you don't tackle

2114
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:38,400
Speaker 2: that core problem of the way that money has captured

2115
01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:41,400
Speaker 2: our politics and the way that you know, billionaire and

2116
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:45,559
Speaker 2: corporate interests are far more represented by our political parties

2117
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 2: than the interests of the people that you're you know

2118
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:49,600
Speaker 2: that you want to serve and that you want to

2119
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:51,040
Speaker 2: make life better for And I do too.

2120
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:56,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, I love Mike. Mike is an absolute genius.

2121
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,439
Speaker 11: I do not agree with the sentiment expressed in those

2122
01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:01,720
Speaker 11: tweets read with so much of his review. I just

2123
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:05,919
Speaker 11: don't agree with the sentiment expressed in those tweets saying

2124
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:10,120
Speaker 11: that government should do efficiency but right does not in

2125
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:13,800
Speaker 11: any way grant elon Musk any kind of credit at all.

2126
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:16,519
Speaker 11: It is very easy to put.

2127
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:17,360
Speaker 10: Two things on the table.

2128
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 11: Number one that DOGE is an absolute disaster, and number

2129
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:25,040
Speaker 11: two that as an entirely separate matter, government should be

2130
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 11: obsessed with efficiency. So Doge's disaster, Yes, I mean. They

2131
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 11: try to reform the Department of Energy to be more

2132
01:44:32,200 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 11: about nuclear security and accidentally gut it the only administration

2133
01:44:36,080 --> 01:44:38,759
Speaker 11: within DOE that has the words nuclear security in the title.

2134
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:41,439
Speaker 11: They tried to reform the FDA and fired some of

2135
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 11: their most talented probationary employees. I think DOGE is a mess.

2136
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:49,040
Speaker 11: Period closed the door there. Let's talk about government efficiency

2137
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:52,160
Speaker 11: for a second. The Biden administration and the Bipartisan Infrastructure

2138
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:56,800
Speaker 11: Bill allocated and authorized forty two billion dollars for rural broadband.

2139
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:57,240
Speaker 1: Right.

2140
01:44:57,439 --> 01:44:59,800
Speaker 11: Biden and Boodhajech called this bill the most important and

2141
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:03,320
Speaker 11: for structure bill passed in something like forty fifty sixty years.

2142
01:45:03,520 --> 01:45:06,840
Speaker 11: But what happened with world broadband? They authorized forty two

2143
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:10,720
Speaker 11: billion dollars to extend internet coverage for America's most underserved communities,

2144
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:15,679
Speaker 11: and now four calendar years after that bill was passed,

2145
01:45:15,880 --> 01:45:19,600
Speaker 11: practically nobody has been hooked up to the service. And

2146
01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:23,120
Speaker 11: it's in part because the government created a fourteen step

2147
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:26,880
Speaker 11: process for fifty six different states and localities to fill out,

2148
01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 11: and it was so cumbersome and so impossible and so

2149
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 11: damn annoying that today only three of the fifty six

2150
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 11: have actually gotten all the way through the process. And

2151
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:37,559
Speaker 11: now Trump's going to come in and got the entire

2152
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 11: program and just hand the whole thing to Starlink. That's

2153
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 11: not government working well, that's government associating success with how

2154
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:47,960
Speaker 11: much money you can tell people you've authorized or spent with,

2155
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:50,880
Speaker 11: rather than associating success with how much you actually build.

2156
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:53,760
Speaker 11: Right That's the world we talk about over and over

2157
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 11: again in this book. It's a world where California authorizes

2158
01:45:56,840 --> 01:45:59,000
Speaker 11: thirty three billion dollars to build a high speed rail

2159
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:01,439
Speaker 11: system in California that does not exist.

2160
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,320
Speaker 10: It's a world where the Chicago.

2161
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 11: Mayor Brandon Johnson bragged on Twitter two weeks ago that

2162
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:10,200
Speaker 11: he spent eleven billion dollars building ten thousand affordable housing

2163
01:46:10,240 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 11: units in Chicago. That's one point one million dollars per

2164
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 11: affordable housing unit in the Midwest. That's pathetic. That is

2165
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 11: government at its most inefficient. That's government as an ineffective disaster.

2166
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't need right.

2167
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 2: Now, don't I don't story. Yeah, I got Okay, Well,

2168
01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:30,719
Speaker 2: I was just going to say what. I don't disagree

2169
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:33,800
Speaker 2: with any of that. I'm just saying that, Like with

2170
01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:36,320
Speaker 2: the CFPB example, I think it's a really good one

2171
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:40,040
Speaker 2: because Democrats, you know, Elizabeth Warren was sort of the

2172
01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:44,720
Speaker 2: ideological architect. Democrats built ount this new agency. Like yes,

2173
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:47,000
Speaker 2: it's not a training or a railroad, but it's the

2174
01:46:47,080 --> 01:46:49,559
Speaker 2: real thing that had to be built from scratch and

2175
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:52,800
Speaker 2: they did a great job, but it didn't matter because

2176
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 2: Elon Musk could spend a quarter of a billion dollars

2177
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:58,800
Speaker 2: in a presidential election and come in and destroy it.

2178
01:46:59,320 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 2: So that's what I'm saying is just I feel like

2179
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,559
Speaker 2: that piece is missing and it's important, and so if

2180
01:47:06,600 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 2: it's going to be a complete, you know, paradigm shift

2181
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 2: and a sort of like guidebook for how Democrats should

2182
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 2: approach both politics and governance going forward, I just feel

2183
01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:22,400
Speaker 2: I just personally looking at the data, that part feel

2184
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 2: so central to me that it's notable that it's that

2185
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:26,479
Speaker 2: it's not there.

2186
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:29,360
Speaker 11: Yeah, I want to make sure that I understand what

2187
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:31,320
Speaker 11: what piece you don't think is there, because when I

2188
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:35,840
Speaker 11: look at this situation, the reason that Elon Musk is

2189
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 11: destroying CFPB is not that people in the center left

2190
01:47:40,120 --> 01:47:44,360
Speaker 11: are giving Elon Musk too much credit. He's destroying CFPB

2191
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:48,120
Speaker 11: because Donald Trump won the election and he doesn't give

2192
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:49,639
Speaker 11: a damn about CFPV.

2193
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 10: That's what's happening.

2194
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,360
Speaker 11: We're having an ideological purge to the federal government because

2195
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 11: Donald Trump has won an election and the government is

2196
01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:00,760
Speaker 11: now a centralized expression of his personality. And his personality

2197
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:02,760
Speaker 11: is I don't want to see anybody around me who

2198
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:05,640
Speaker 11: disagrees with me, and I want to destroy every semblance

2199
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:11,120
Speaker 11: of my predecessor's record. So CFPB is in existential danger

2200
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 11: right now as I see it. For one overarching reason,

2201
01:48:15,520 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 11: Donald Trump won. So then you get to the next

2202
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 11: step of the analysis. Why did Donald Trump win? And

2203
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:24,080
Speaker 11: if you ask voters why did Donald Trump win your vote?

2204
01:48:24,160 --> 01:48:26,120
Speaker 11: Why did you switch from Biden to Trump between twenty

2205
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:28,559
Speaker 11: twenty and twenty twenty four, over and over again, you

2206
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:32,760
Speaker 11: get the exact same answer. It's affordability. Affordability, affordability. And

2207
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:35,720
Speaker 11: in many cases, I think this issue of affordability is

2208
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:40,479
Speaker 11: intimately intertwined with the issue of effectiveness of liberal governance

2209
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:42,880
Speaker 11: in the places that we have the most power. So

2210
01:48:42,920 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 11: when I look at saving administrations like CFPB from the

2211
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:51,240
Speaker 11: wrath of Elon Musk, what I become obsessed with is

2212
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:54,479
Speaker 11: how do we take a liberal movement, a Democratic party

2213
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 11: that right now is scratching and clawing for the forty

2214
01:48:57,240 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 11: eight percent and trying to broaden this movement to in

2215
01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:02,920
Speaker 11: not just the forty eight point one percent but a

2216
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:05,560
Speaker 11: fifty two, fifty three to fifty four percent coalition in

2217
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 11: this country. It means, I think, enlargening what people think

2218
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 11: of when they think of liberalism in America. I want

2219
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,000
Speaker 11: them to think of growth. I want them to think

2220
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:16,880
Speaker 11: of affordability. I want them to think of an absolutely

2221
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 11: maniacal obsession about how to improve government to make your

2222
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:20,599
Speaker 11: life better.

2223
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:22,200
Speaker 10: And finally, I think.

2224
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:25,240
Speaker 11: That that paradigm shift is the sort of thing that

2225
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:28,400
Speaker 11: allows Democrats to hold power at the federal level so

2226
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:31,040
Speaker 11: that mad men like Musk don't come in and burn

2227
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:31,840
Speaker 11: the whole thing down.

2228
01:49:32,120 --> 01:49:33,599
Speaker 3: So I would add to that.

2229
01:49:33,760 --> 01:49:35,519
Speaker 2: You know, part of how Donald Trump is able to

2230
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:37,680
Speaker 2: win that election is that he's able to raise a

2231
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:40,559
Speaker 2: quarter of a billion dollars and once at one, you know,

2232
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:43,120
Speaker 2: stop shop from the richest man on the planet. And

2233
01:49:43,160 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 2: the fact that you have both the vast inequality and

2234
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:49,599
Speaker 2: the system of money and politics that we do helps

2235
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:53,120
Speaker 2: to enable that. Not to mention the level of control

2236
01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 2: that people like Elon have. I mean, he's you know,

2237
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:57,960
Speaker 2: beyond anything we've seen before, but we certainly had billionaire

2238
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:01,880
Speaker 2: influence in government before. Is port important part of why

2239
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:06,840
Speaker 2: government fails to deliver, whether it's Democrats or Republicans when

2240
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:07,599
Speaker 2: they're in power.

2241
01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 3: But you know and related to them.

2242
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 2: This is my last question for you, Derek, and I

2243
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:12,840
Speaker 2: appreciate you being a good sport as I you know,

2244
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 2: ask my questions here. But you know, when I think

2245
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:21,280
Speaker 2: about the core story of why Democrats lost and why

2246
01:50:21,320 --> 01:50:24,280
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was able to win, I think the story

2247
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:26,280
Speaker 2: you tell, I think that's absolutely part of it. But

2248
01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 2: I think a central issue was that Donald Trump had

2249
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 2: a very clear story, a very clear narrative with eros

2250
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 2: and villains of what went wrong in this country. Right,

2251
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 2: Immigrants and trans people and cultural elite. They're screwing you over,

2252
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:44,080
Speaker 2: They're destroying your way of life. Immigrants are the reason

2253
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 2: why things are not affordable, and I'm going to fix it.

2254
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,040
Speaker 3: Okay, So very clear cut. It's wrong in my opinion.

2255
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:52,719
Speaker 3: Zer can disagree with me and has before, but it's wrong.

2256
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:56,559
Speaker 2: But you know, it made sense to people, and it

2257
01:50:56,600 --> 01:51:01,680
Speaker 2: was clear cut. Democrats don't have a similar sort of

2258
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,719
Speaker 2: hero villain narrative that makes sense to people.

2259
01:51:04,880 --> 01:51:05,880
Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders does.

2260
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:07,840
Speaker 2: And you know, I think it's one of the reasons

2261
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 2: why people are flocking it as town halls. Why people

2262
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 2: are going to Republican town halls and shanning at them,

2263
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:15,640
Speaker 2: tax the rich, why he continues to be one of

2264
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 2: the most popular politicians in the country because he has

2265
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 2: a very clear cut narrative of what went wrong and

2266
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 2: who the villains are. So, you know, my last question

2267
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:29,840
Speaker 2: for you, just to summarize your philosophy here in the

2268
01:51:29,840 --> 01:51:32,760
Speaker 2: paradigm shift you're trying to achieve, Like, who are the

2269
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:37,599
Speaker 2: villains in your story? Are the villains the like liberal

2270
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:40,280
Speaker 2: do gooders who mistakenly put.

2271
01:51:40,080 --> 01:51:41,360
Speaker 3: In all the regulations?

2272
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,559
Speaker 2: Like is that who you're pointing at the finger at

2273
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:45,680
Speaker 2: as the ones that we need to sort of like

2274
01:51:46,040 --> 01:51:48,360
Speaker 2: chide and check and get in line. And if not,

2275
01:51:48,880 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 2: how is that really that If that is the sort

2276
01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:55,080
Speaker 2: of you know, villain of your story, how is that

2277
01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 2: that different from the Republican narrative and frame, which would

2278
01:51:58,360 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 2: also point the finger at the left and say these

2279
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,559
Speaker 2: people are the reason that things are bad in the country.

2280
01:52:04,040 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 11: I think this might be the easiest question you've asked

2281
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:09,080
Speaker 11: so far, But I'm worried that my thinking that might

2282
01:52:09,120 --> 01:52:12,240
Speaker 11: mean I'm on the wrong track. The villain is easy.

2283
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:17,040
Speaker 11: Look at Donald Trump, look at Elon Musk. Look what

2284
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:20,879
Speaker 11: these people are doing to our country and to our government.

2285
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 11: The liberal enemy is the easiest thing to define here

2286
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 11: at the national level, and it's very easy to find,

2287
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:31,120
Speaker 11: specifically in the language of abundance. Donald Trump does not

2288
01:52:31,200 --> 01:52:34,519
Speaker 11: believe in the concept of a positive some outcome. He

2289
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:37,599
Speaker 11: doesn't believe cooperation is possible at all. He thinks any

2290
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:40,680
Speaker 11: cooperation that he sees oversees like the mere existence of

2291
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:44,080
Speaker 11: the EU, is an insult to America. He doesn't think trade,

2292
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:47,320
Speaker 11: which is the definition of a positive some outcome, can

2293
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:50,800
Speaker 11: possibly lead to mutually good outcomes for both sides. Every

2294
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:54,240
Speaker 11: single time Donald Trump identifies some problem with America, he

2295
01:52:54,280 --> 01:52:56,760
Speaker 11: identifies something he wants to take away from America. He says,

2296
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:58,680
Speaker 11: America doesn't have enough housing, so we need to take

2297
01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:01,559
Speaker 11: away the immigrants. We don't have enough manufacturing, so we

2298
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:04,400
Speaker 11: have to take away the trade, or we don't do

2299
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 11: enough good science. What we need to do is reduce

2300
01:53:06,200 --> 01:53:09,879
Speaker 11: the amount of scientific funding. This is a scarcely mindset

2301
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:13,040
Speaker 11: across the board, and in juxtaposition to that, I think

2302
01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:16,040
Speaker 11: an abundance mindset and an abundance book and an abundance

2303
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:18,880
Speaker 11: message rings very very clearly with this sort of hero,

2304
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 11: clear cut hero villain dynamic that you're drawing right, And

2305
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 11: the distinction could not be more crystalline. But to your point,

2306
01:53:26,320 --> 01:53:28,839
Speaker 11: I don't want to hide the ball here. This book

2307
01:53:29,320 --> 01:53:33,320
Speaker 11: and our critique absolutely forces liberals to take a look

2308
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:35,920
Speaker 11: in the mirror. And it does so not because we

2309
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:40,200
Speaker 11: want to give aid to Republicans or because we want

2310
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 11: to sell books by looking like we're apost states from

2311
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:47,360
Speaker 11: within the liberal movement. We just fundamentally believe that it

2312
01:53:47,439 --> 01:53:50,960
Speaker 11: is the sins of modern liberalism and the problems of

2313
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:54,920
Speaker 11: modern progressivism that got us to this point, that allowed

2314
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:59,040
Speaker 11: someone like Donald Trump, who's frankly not a popular political figure,

2315
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:02,519
Speaker 11: to nonetheless dominate the political scene over the last decade.

2316
01:54:03,080 --> 01:54:07,200
Speaker 11: Where is an opposition movement that is popular and effective,

2317
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:10,000
Speaker 11: we have instead as an opposition movement the Democratic Party

2318
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:13,240
Speaker 11: that is historically unpopular, pulling a twenty nine percent in

2319
01:54:13,280 --> 01:54:16,280
Speaker 11: the last n N rating, and ineffective in the places

2320
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:19,439
Speaker 11: we hold the most power. So when we do this

2321
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:23,400
Speaker 11: friendly fire critique, it's not in any way designed to

2322
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:25,800
Speaker 11: allow us to cozy up to the center right or

2323
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:28,439
Speaker 11: the right to get them to bring us on their

2324
01:54:28,439 --> 01:54:33,240
Speaker 11: podcast or something. We're trying to win and to develop

2325
01:54:33,240 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 11: winning strategies. Sometimes you just have to look very clearly

2326
01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:38,320
Speaker 11: in the mirror to ask Why do we keep losing

2327
01:54:38,600 --> 01:54:42,200
Speaker 11: not just arguments, but people. People are leaving California, They're

2328
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,160
Speaker 11: leaving New York, they're leaving Minnesota, they're leaving Oregon, they're

2329
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:48,960
Speaker 11: leaving Illinois. How are we losing people and elections at

2330
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:53,200
Speaker 11: the same time. You can't answer that question, honestly unless

2331
01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:55,320
Speaker 11: you're willing to tell heart truths best your own side.

2332
01:54:55,840 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 11: So we are trying to tell heart shruths about our

2333
01:54:57,360 --> 01:54:59,120
Speaker 11: own side. But it is in service to a broader

2334
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:02,960
Speaker 11: message at is stopping a political revolution on the right

2335
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 11: that we think absolutely hurts America by putting scarcity over abundance.

2336
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:09,760
Speaker 1: Derek, really appreciate your analysis. As always, everybody go buy

2337
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:11,959
Speaker 1: the book. We'll have a link down in the description

2338
01:55:12,120 --> 01:55:14,240
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to finish reading it. So thank you

2339
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:15,400
Speaker 1: very much, sir. We appreciate you.

2340
01:55:15,480 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 3: Thank you, Derek. It's great to see you.

2341
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:18,320
Speaker 10: Thanks for both of you. Thanks so much.

2342
01:55:18,680 --> 01:55:20,520
Speaker 1: All right, guys, we will see you all later, but

2343
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:21,720
Speaker 1: quick programming up.

2344
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:24,040
Speaker 2: Yes, my kids spring break, so I'll be on next week.

2345
01:55:24,120 --> 01:55:25,040
Speaker 3: Ryan will be in for me.

2346
01:55:25,160 --> 01:55:26,640
Speaker 2: I know you guys will be excited about the bro

2347
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:28,920
Speaker 2: shows that. See you back the week after that.

2348
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:31,080
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, all right, we will see you all later.