1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Hello, my Kings, queens and in between's. Welcome to Ace 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: is Maddie and I am your host for any first 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: time listeners here, Ace of Hearts is a dating podcast 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: where I the naive a sexual that I am, talk 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: to people with an assortment of different backgrounds about their 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: dating life. Now, before we continue, I just want to 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: state that we at Ace of Hearts have no intention 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: of generalizing any lifestyle, race, gender, disability, etc. Our desire 10 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: is to hear some love stories or maybe some horror 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: stories from people who don't always get the spotlight. Every 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: person is unique and so is their story. And today 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: we have a guest someone I have been following for 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: a very long time. 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: We have Jesse. 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: Nowag Jesse, thank you so much for coming on to 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: the show. Jess, you would you like to introduce yourself 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: and why or how dating is difficult for you? 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. My name is Jesse. 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 4: I am an actor, writer, video editor type person. I 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 4: guess like it's it's one of those things where when 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 4: I talk about, like what makes dating difficult for me, 23 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 4: I don't want to say like I'm trans, because like 24 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 4: that's you know, I don't want it to be like 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 4: trans is a bad thing that stops me from dating 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 4: or anything. But there are some there's some stologies that 27 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 4: come with that, just from like not everyone is as 28 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 4: knowledgeable about things and stuff and that's usually. 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: You're right, I probably should have rephrased that. I probably 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: should have said what makes dating different or what's your 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: walk of life that makes dating different? So I apologize 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: for my for my wording. 33 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 4: Twenty years from now, I'm sure things will be even better. 34 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: Like I'm so fortunate to be dating right now, much 35 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 4: as there can be difficulties, Like I'm I much prefer 36 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 4: it than twenty years before this, and you know, so 37 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 4: things are getting better. But I'm also like polyamorous, so 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,839 Speaker 4: like that also presents some challenges. Just also the same 39 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 4: problem where people aren't a knowledgeable about things and stuff. 40 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: But so yeah, so you're bringing a whole new, whole 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: new perspective. Oh I feel like that's a song and 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: then a song. Oh no, that's a panic at the discospective. 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: So it is it's from never mind, it's from Jennifer's Body, 44 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 4: which I just rewatched. 45 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: Something this movie. It's so fun, right, that's a fantastic vial. 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 3: I feel like people didn't get it. 47 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 4: It's one of those that's coming back, like the Josie 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 4: and the Pussycat movie and like this. But like people 49 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 4: just didn't get some films and now we're watching them now. 50 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 3: Smoochies. 51 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 4: Whatever that movie is with Robin Williams was so fucking 52 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 4: good and just no one got it. 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: And I watched it that one. It's a parody of. 54 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 4: Like Robin Williams plays this like I know we're getting 55 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 4: off top and care. 56 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: It's a good movie. People should watch it. 57 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 4: It's a movie where Robin Williams plays this like this 58 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 4: guy who's basically like a children's entertainer, you know, like 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 4: kind of one of those guys that's like, hey, we're 60 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 4: gonna like learn our ABCS or whatever. And he turns 61 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 4: out to be like a bad guy. So he gets 62 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 4: canceled in like the nineties, and they have to look 63 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 4: for a new guy who's played by Edward Norton, I think, 64 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 4: and he takes over and it turns into like this hole. 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 4: It's a really it's a dark comedy that I had 66 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 4: never heard of before. But my writing partner we were 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 4: watching a bunch of stuff together that we're trying to 68 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 4: get the vibe for something that we're working on. 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 3: He was like, we should watch Smoochi's whatever, and I. 70 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 4: Was like, yes, Death to Smoochie, It's great, It's no 71 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 4: one got it. 72 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: I've never heard of that. Yeah, and I'm definitely a 73 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: Robin Williams fan. Let's just talk about Robin Williams for 74 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: a frick an hour. 75 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, this girl podcast. 76 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: This is Robin Williams podcast. 77 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah it's changed. Yeah, boom, let me get a new 78 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,119 Speaker 1: intro on here. See, if you're on a date, bring 79 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: up Jennifer Body, Jennifer's Body and Robin Williams, and then 80 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: you can bring up this podcast as well. So anyways, 81 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,119 Speaker 1: uh so Jesse, first, I would like to talk about 82 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: like dating as a as a transman. I'll admit i'm 83 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: a little I know a little bit of your your 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: story because I've been following you for a couple of years. 85 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: When did you first realize that you were a transman? 86 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: Because I know when I was first following you online, 87 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: you identified as a girl. At that point, I believe 88 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: unless you just weren't telling the community that you were 89 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: a man at that point, Yeah, I think. 90 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 4: It was like around when I was twenty four or 91 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 4: twenty three, when I was actually like, hm, I'm having 92 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 4: some thoughts that would make some sense of things. But 93 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 4: I knew that being trans would be hard, so I 94 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 4: was like, I just won't be uh So I just 95 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 4: pretended for a while that I wasn't And eventually it 96 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 4: kind of it like you can't just push down thoughts 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 4: like that. 98 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 3: Eventually it's gonna you know, because. 99 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 4: I just wasn't happy. I was like, I'll pretend I'm 100 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: not trans. I'm miserable every day of my life, but like, 101 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 4: I don't want to be trans, So I just won't 102 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 4: be trans. And then eventually I got away from some 103 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 4: people that like didn't want me to transition. I went 104 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: out on my own learned that that, you know, there's 105 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 4: actually some very cool people that are like, you know, 106 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 4: very supportive of me, and I got in an environment 107 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 4: where I was able to like grow in advance and 108 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 4: like become the person that I was meant to be. 109 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: I didn't have the language to communicate what or who 110 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 4: I was at a young age, but like if I 111 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 4: knew the terms for things, probably I would have known 112 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 4: that I was trans at like four or five years old, 113 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: Like it really goes back where my mom. It was 114 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 4: not a surprise to her when she learned, Like she 115 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 4: was like, oh, that does make sense because of this, this, this, 116 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 4: and this. I there's different terms that people use that 117 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 4: make themselves comfortable. But I've always been a boy, so 118 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 4: I don't know what it's like to be a girl. 119 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 4: I only know what it's like to have the lived 120 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 4: experience of people thinking that you're a girl and treating 121 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 4: you as such, so I can relate a lot to 122 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 4: the female experience, but I don't actually know what it's 123 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 4: like to be a girl. So sometimes I'm a little 124 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 4: clueless when it comes to female stuff, Like even though 125 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 4: I have some lived experience of it, I don't know 126 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 4: to everything. 127 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: I'm not a trans individual. 128 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: I'm definitely a CIS lady, so I definitely don't have 129 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: that kind of mindset perspective. And that's very interesting that 130 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: you definitely say that, like, if you had the right wording, 131 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: you would say that you would be a boy, like 132 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: even when you were like a kid. 133 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: No, I think it's incredible. 134 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: I also like didn't really know the words when I 135 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: was figured out that I was asexual. I just didn't 136 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: date really a lot because it just didn't really seem 137 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: interesting to me most of the time. And then when 138 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: I had friends who are like, oh, no, I made 139 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: out with Josh last night. 140 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: I didn't mean to. It's like, how do you not 141 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: mean to make out with somebody? 142 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: It was just these situations was like I don't get it, 143 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: and I just didn't really have the right like wording 144 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: because I thought I was just like man, like, why 145 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: is it like people dating and like having sex? And 146 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: like I didn't that doesn't why it's not happening to me. 147 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: But like you know, but when you finally find the 148 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: right words for it, it's just like, oh freaking click, 149 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: I can't make sense. No, So I definitely get you 150 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: of like kind of finding yourself like in your twenties. 151 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 152 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: And so when when you were. 153 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: Dating before your transition, would you often tell your partners 154 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: about your gender identity? 155 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 4: Uh No, because I, like I didn't know, like you know, 156 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 4: once I once I came out, I was just fully out. 157 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: It was mainly just like me being in denial and 158 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 4: like getting drunk at conventions and having heart to hearts 159 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 4: with my friends where I've been. 160 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: Like I think I'm a guy. I don't know what's happening. Man, Uh, 161 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: like it's cool if you are. 162 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,679 Speaker 4: And I was like, no, that's fine, I'm not everything's fine, 163 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 4: just trying to push everything down. But once I was out, 164 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: I was fully out, you know. 165 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: I that Yeah, you didn't creak the closet door open, 166 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: you opened it with the bazukah. 167 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, just like yeah, Jesse's coming out baby, Because like 168 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 4: once you once you figure out that you can be happy, 169 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 4: there's no like shutting the door. The matrix pill analogy 170 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 4: is just so accurate because like you just can't go backwards, 171 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 4: Like once you see what you're, what the world is, 172 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 4: and what your life could be, there's no real shutting 173 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 4: that door. 174 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: There. 175 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 4: There's there's a lot of people that that you know, 176 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 4: friends and stuff that that, and also strangers sometimes that 177 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 4: message me that that come to me and are like 178 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 4: how do I know I'm trans? And I'm like, listen, 179 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 4: if you have to ask me, I think it's on 180 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 4: your mind. I think you need to like think about 181 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 4: this thing. I can't tell you if you're trans, but 182 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: if you, but how long have you been thinking about this? 183 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 4: If it's if it's more that like it's not a 184 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 4: cisgender thoughts to constantly think you're a different gender for 185 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 4: years and not explore it and not you know, like, 186 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 4: I think, I think there's something to it if you've 187 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 4: been thinking about it for this long. 188 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: But I think you should. Uh, you can't consult me. 189 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: I'm a stranger. I don't know you. 190 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 4: But let's let's do something deep introspection and you know, 191 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 4: kind of figure yourself out, like you can do it. 192 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 3: It's cool. 193 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: I think that's a good call. Yeah. 194 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: I think that's being a very good supportive member of 195 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the community. 196 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 4: Because people want the easy answer. People want me to 197 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 4: tell them that they're trans, you know, so then it's 198 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 4: not on them. But unfortunately it's a thing that only 199 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 4: you know. 200 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, just figuring it out. Everyone's got to just figure 201 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: themselves out. So when you did figure yourself out, when 202 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: you started identifying as a man, like, how frequently would 203 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: that be brought up? 204 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: I suppose in in dates? 205 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: What were some discussions that you must have had between people, 206 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: have like either first dates or I don't know if 207 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: you were dating anyone at that time when you. 208 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: Decided to. 209 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: Out yourself out, I don't know, you started to bust 210 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: open that closet. 211 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I like formally came out just like on Twitter. 212 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: I think June first of I think it was twenty eighteen, 213 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 4: because it was like the first day of Pride month, 214 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 4: and I was like, eh, fuck it, like let's just 215 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 4: do it, let's pull the. 216 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: Band aid off. 217 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: And I was dating someone at the time who did 218 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 4: not know that they were trans, but has since like 219 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 4: a couple months into us dating, came out as non binary, 220 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 4: and so we kind of like we're also learning as 221 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 4: we as we went along and both kind of helping 222 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 4: each other in that way. But the social transition started 223 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 4: only like six months before the physical transition. I started 224 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 4: tesoscerone because I had repressed myself for so long that 225 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 4: I was like, I'm just I want to be happy. 226 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 4: I'm so tired of being miserable. Let's just like do 227 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 4: everything at once. And I was so fortunate that I 228 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 4: was able to just like that's that's next. January I 229 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 4: got on testoscerone, and then that March I got top surgery. 230 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 4: So I was like out the gate, let's fucking go 231 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 4: do as much shit as possible. And it was incredible 232 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 4: and I was able to like put myself in a 233 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 4: headspace where I could learn and grow and actually like 234 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 4: who I was and learned who I was as a person. 235 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot. 236 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 4: Of talk about, I guess, changing yourself as a trans 237 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 4: person in order to be comfortable in your skin, but 238 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 4: I think it's it's more about staying the same and 239 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 4: learning who you are and not running from who you are, 240 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 4: because like, at my core and at my base, I've 241 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 4: always been this person. I just didn't know how to 242 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 4: love myself. I guess I didn't. I couldn't accept that 243 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 4: I could be happy. I wanted to live this other 244 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 4: life and pretend I was this other person because I 245 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: knew the other path was more difficult, even though that's 246 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 4: the one that would make me happy. Sometimes you have 247 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 4: to become other people to know who you are. So 248 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 4: like you know, when I when I first uh when 249 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 4: you when you go into sacerone, it doesn't make you 250 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 4: more aggressive, but it does accentuate things that are already 251 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 4: inside of you. Uh. So I went through a fuck boyface, 252 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 4: like I think every trans man goes through a fuck 253 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 4: boyface of some kinds, where we're just kind of shitty, 254 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: like we don't like women. And and it's understandable because 255 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 4: society has conditioned us to do that to survive in 256 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: order to fit in, you know, like like I blended 257 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 4: in with shitty guys because I could be like. 258 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: See, I'm like, I'm one of you. 259 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 4: I hate girls too, like you know, and it's much 260 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 4: easier to be the bully than be bullied. 261 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: Is it possible that is also like internalization of like 262 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: not liking women because that's what you were told you 263 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: were and for such a long time that just felt 264 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: so like wrong. 265 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: Is there I don't know that just speculation. 266 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, there's a there's a lot of like 267 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: internalized misogyny. I think that that's uh we dealt with 268 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 4: because like I, when I analyze and think about my 269 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 4: behavior pre transition, I was also kind of shitty eat 270 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 4: to women. I didn't like women, and uh, you know 271 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 4: now I understand what those thoughts were because it was 272 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 4: yucky to think about the fact that people thought I 273 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 4: was a girl. So I if I if I go 274 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: to the complete opposite side of the spectrum, then that 275 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 4: will help, that will protect me. So when I first 276 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 4: started dating, I was that I don't know, I don't 277 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 4: like who I was. I was. 278 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: I had a lot of growing to do. 279 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 4: I was in not a good situation pre transition, and 280 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 4: I you know, I got away from abuse and I 281 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 4: got into this relationship with this this person that I had, 282 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 4: you know, been dating when I transitioned, who figured out 283 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 4: that they were non binary, and they gosh, if you've 284 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 4: dated a god bless anyone who dates a trans person 285 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 4: like early in their transition, because it is charity work. 286 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: Like there's so much that. 287 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 4: They had to deal with with me that I'm like, 288 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: you know, I think back and it's so cringe. 289 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: But they turned me into a good person. 290 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: But that was half the work, right, Like another person 291 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 4: can only do so much. I had to do a 292 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: lot of introspection and like turn myself into a good 293 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: person because I didn't like who I was, and I 294 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 4: knew that they were going to love me no matter what. 295 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: So I needed to remove myself from the situation because 296 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 4: I wasn't treating them with the respect and love that 297 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 4: they deserved. So I went off on my own, and 298 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 4: you know, we were living together. I told them, like, hey, 299 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 4: you're great. I'm the problem. I need to remove myself 300 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 4: from the situation. I need to, like, because I never 301 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 4: lived on my own at that point, and I moved 302 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 4: out on my own, and I was able to like 303 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 4: date other like I would have been able to date 304 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: other people when I was with them because we were polyamorous. 305 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 4: But I, you know, I broke We broke up, you know, 306 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 4: and so I I stopped dating for a bit. After that, 307 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 4: I tried dating. I got I did the typical trans 308 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 4: dude thing of dating. 309 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know if there's a term. 310 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 4: For it, but there's a there's a specific like brand 311 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 4: of cis white woman that thinks that they are woke, 312 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: but they are not. They'd like they'd like date trans 313 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 4: people in order to feel something. 314 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: So they just want to be a part of the movement, 315 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: but not in a genuine way. 316 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, like they're they they're just like they're just turfy. 317 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: Like they're just interesting. 318 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, they say and do racist turfy shit. But they 319 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: think that they are allowed to because they are a woman. 320 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 4: And that is the most most you can suffer as 321 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 4: a human. Like they just they have no self awareness 322 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: of how other people see them and how they treat 323 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 4: other people. It's just like a very small lens of 324 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 4: the world. And I, in my brain, I'm always that 325 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 4: person that's like I. 326 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: Can fix them. 327 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 4: So like whether it's been with like men or women, 328 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 4: Oh no, So I stay with those those girls. 329 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: For way too long. 330 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 4: And my ex girlfriend that I got around that time 331 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 4: really opened my eyes to I was like, I don't 332 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 4: deserve this, this, I need to like stop dating CIS 333 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 4: women for a bit. So, like I'm still in that 334 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 4: state right now where I took I think I haven't dated. 335 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 3: A SIS woman in two or three years. 336 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 4: I just kind of took a break because it's also 337 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 4: I think the age that I am, the older you get, 338 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 4: the more people will mature to your level. And as 339 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 4: a trans you do have to like trans people can 340 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 4: can be tend to be very very mature because we 341 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: have to think so much about who we are and 342 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 4: what we want in the world and sexuality and bodies 343 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 4: and all that shit. So I was dating a lot 344 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 4: of women who were not at the same maturity level 345 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 4: as I was. Communication is very important to me, just 346 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,199 Speaker 4: like just stuff that, Like I wasn't gelling on the 347 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 4: same level as the people who are my age, So 348 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 4: I was like, I'll just get older and then yeah, 349 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 4: now I'm now I'm thirty, and so like I'm dating 350 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 4: a lot or I'm finding and becoming friends with a 351 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 4: lot of sis women who are comfortable and happy and 352 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 4: mature and are able to meet me at that level. 353 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 4: And I haven't started dating any of them yet, but 354 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 4: it feels good to know that they exist. 355 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 2: There are some good ladies out there. 356 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I had to stop trying to fix people 357 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 4: because you can't fix everyone. You can only you can't. 358 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 4: Sometimes you can't even fix people who want to be fixed. 359 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 4: Like it's you know, I worked on myself and that's 360 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 4: what I've been going through. 361 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 3: But I forget what the original question you asked about was. 362 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: But I that is okay. 363 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: This was fantastic though, that is totally fine. 364 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: This was a great look into the world that you're in, 365 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: so I absolutely appreciated it. So some of these individuals 366 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: I'd love to know, like how did you meet some 367 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: of them? Was it in like work? Was it like 368 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: social was it dating apps? Did they have lots of 369 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: questions like in the first couple of dates, especially if 370 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: they were trying to see them all aloke? 371 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like I've met them all over. They could 372 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 4: grow in any environments. I met them on dating apps, 373 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 4: it's you know, anime conventions, through friends. I love a 374 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 4: girl with a sense of humor, and so being funny 375 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 4: is great. It's a real way to hook me. But gosh, 376 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 4: you don't see the other characteristics until later. Yeah, it's 377 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 4: like it's been a big blind spot of mind that 378 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 4: I've been trying to work on. Is just like a 379 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: Tessos run has honestly really helped with this. But I 380 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 4: attached to girls who could make me laugh because I 381 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 4: thought that equivocated with, you know, to being a good person. 382 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: But a lot of people use their trauma in order 383 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 4: to be funny. 384 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 3: Allah me, I get it. That's great. 385 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 4: I got a dark sense of humor, but sometimes people 386 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 4: use that to involve a sense of humor. But then 387 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 4: also just let the trauma, let them treat other people 388 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 4: like shit. They're not like looking inward and changing and growing. 389 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: As a person. 390 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know lots of people like thatf for it's like, 391 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, stuff happened to you. However, you're in your thirties. 392 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: You can't use that as an excuse. 393 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: Now it is on you exactly for your actions. Yeah, 394 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 2: I told you get that. 395 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 4: No, like you were you were asking if they like 396 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 4: ask questions or anything like that. It's more that they assume, 397 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 4: and that's the problem I think is they're not asking 398 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 4: the questions, like I'm fine, I'm I'm an open book, 399 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 4: like if people dating hooking up with or asking things 400 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 4: in respectful ways, I'll answer whatever. But I think they 401 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 4: just they were like, oh, I know, I know about transmen, 402 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 4: don't worry, and then would get shit wrong all the time, 403 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 4: and that that was mainly the problem of like how 404 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 4: funny I hook up with transmen all the time, so 405 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 4: I kind of kind of an expert. 406 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 3: I'm like, that's not the flex you think it is. 407 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 3: I don't know. 408 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 4: If anyone uses the phrase I'm really into transman h 409 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 4: or like I'm really attracted to transman, it's immediate immediately 410 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 4: I stop feeling anything for them. And that's a problem 411 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 4: because there's like I'm making out with someone in a 412 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 4: hallway and then they say it and I'm like, we 413 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 4: were about to have sex, Like I come on, like 414 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 4: I feel nothing for you now, man, but you're hot 415 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: and I want to feel things for you. But then 416 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: we start doing things and I can't get hard, and 417 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 4: I'm like, well, I guess I guess I'm not attracted 418 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 4: to you anymore. 419 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 3: But this sucks. Because I want to be attracted to you. 420 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 4: I would love to just forget that you said that, 421 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 4: But my dick isn't working now, do gim me dde. 422 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's kind of like an arrogance, a pride, 423 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: and I don't know, maybe that's just a part of 424 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: our Western culture where it's so difficult to say that 425 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: you're wrong about something, asking questions and like vulnerability and 426 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: because that's seen as a weakness or something. 427 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 2: I don't know. 428 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: This is just my speculation of like cause I know 429 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: so many people who the pride is just like rolling 430 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: off of them, and it's like it is hard to 431 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: have a conversation with you because you are like either 432 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: correcting every word I'm saying, or you're saying the same 433 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: exact thing I'm saying, but with different words to make 434 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: it seem like you're smarter whatever. Like it's and but 435 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: I feel like I've known quite a few people who just. 436 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 2: Have via that pride. 437 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, not that I'm trying to defend any 438 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: of these ladies, they definitely sound like they have some 439 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: growing to do. 440 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, No, it's it's I was talking with my friend 441 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 4: the other day about this, Like I think all the time. 442 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 4: I have conversations like this where people seem to be 443 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 4: afraid of being wrong. But the thing is, like, it's 444 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 4: great to be wrong. You're learning things about the world, 445 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 4: like ask questions, be curious, like in respectful ways. 446 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, just be humble about it. 447 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because like if the worst case is if 448 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: I get something wrong, I correct myself or I would 449 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 4: say thank you for teaching me that, and then I'm 450 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 4: right all of a sudden because I've absorbed the correct 451 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 4: information and now I'm like, you know, it's not that 452 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 4: I'm always right, It's just that I'm okay with accepting 453 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 4: other information, and so I just correct what was in 454 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 4: my brain and then I'm right all of a sudden. 455 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: I was wrong before and now I'm right. 456 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 457 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Now you know, you've gained knowledge, You've gained like a 458 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: feet in your skill tree. It's incredible. You're not perfect 459 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: from like the second you're you're able to start to talk, 460 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: or you know, you finish your elementary school or college, like, 461 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: you still have so much learning and you will continue 462 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: to learn until you die. 463 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 3: Exactly. 464 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 2: That's a good thing. That's a good thing. 465 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I'm a I'm a himbo. Like honestly, like, 466 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 4: there's a lot of shit I don't know. If you 467 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 4: asked me to point out somewhere on a map, I 468 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 4: won't be able to tell you. Like all of my 469 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 4: skill points were put in wisdom and none in intelligence. 470 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 3: So that's where I approach the world from. 471 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 4: So I'm I get shit wrong sometimes and I'll and 472 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 4: I'll say it. I'm not afraid of saying that I'm wrong, 473 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: because what I fear the people who are not okay 474 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 4: with saying that they're wrong. 475 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: Not to generalize or anything, but do you think that's 476 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: common in the trans community, that these individuals are more 477 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: humble and more open minded? 478 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally, Yeah, Like, uh, because because you know, in 479 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 4: in relationships I was, I was talking about how I'm 480 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 4: much more mature in areas that I'm shocked that other 481 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 4: people aren't, and it's it's because I had to think 482 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 4: about things for so long. Trans people can go in 483 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: all sorts of directions, like there are a lot of 484 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 4: trans men that are just pieces of shit, and it 485 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 4: always just boggles my mind. 486 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 3: But I understand. 487 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 4: I get it, Like you've just been poisoned by toxic 488 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 4: masculinity and trying to blend in and shit that like 489 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 4: there are there's plenty of trans people that hate trans 490 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 4: people and it sucks. But that's like why I'm not 491 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 4: really friends with a lot of uh transmen specifically, Uh, 492 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 4: I wanted to get more in touch with like like 493 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 4: like knowing about transmen and the community and stuff, because 494 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 4: I kind of isolated myself from that part of my 495 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 4: life specifically. I was I'm friends with trans women and 496 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 4: on binary individuals, but transmen, I didn't have a lot 497 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 4: of like I don't have any friends, Like I'm just 498 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 4: not you know. So I so I follow some transmen 499 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 4: on Instagram and I have to keep unfollowing them every 500 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 4: couple of months because they're either they're pushing NFTs or 501 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 4: they're like saying some dumb shits or they're misogynistic. And 502 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 4: I'm like, what, this is why we got to stop 503 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 4: this shit, Like this is why I'm not friends with 504 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 4: transmen because like a lot of us fucking suck. We 505 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 4: didn't do a lot of growing an introspection and like 506 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 4: like just nut up, dude, what the fuck are you doing? 507 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 3: Like don't push NFTs? 508 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, what like do you not have any friends that 509 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 4: are telling you not to do this? 510 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: Why is this Why is this you? 511 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: Now? 512 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't mind me. 513 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: Asking what is your gender sexual preference? And I know 514 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: you said you're polyamorous, but that doesn't exactly mean straight 515 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: or by or pan. 516 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it's funny because like, if I'm honest, I'm 517 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 4: more attracted to CIS women. But I've just like taken 518 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 4: so much time off because I'm it's hard to be 519 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 4: attracted to someone that you are repulsed by, you know, 520 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 4: like when I've when I've had so many bad experiences, 521 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 4: it's making me. It made me generalize in a way 522 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 4: where I was like, Okay, no more SIS girls for 523 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 4: a while, which I think is something that's trans people 524 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 4: go through a lot of of like Okay, no more 525 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 4: of this these SIS people, We're going to take a break. 526 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 4: I understand T for T relationships, which is transfer trans 527 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: Like it's it's trans people that like prefer to date 528 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 4: other other trans people. And I understand because there's nothing 529 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: like dating another trans person Like the first time I 530 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 4: experienced it. I understand, like it's someone that understands like 531 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 4: what you're going through and what you've had to like 532 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 4: experience in life. Yeah, but I'm pretty open into whoever 533 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 4: I think I've kind of the last few years, I've 534 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 4: only been really hooking up with assis men or non 535 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 4: binary people with penises, just because it's easier. You could 536 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 4: just go on an app and just find a dick. 537 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 4: You could like ordering a pizza and just you know, 538 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 4: a lot easier, a lot less drama. 539 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: Is that an app findmydick dot com or something about 540 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: that grider, so that uh. 541 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 4: So it's it's easier if thinking about my future, I 542 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 4: do see myself like if I am married one day, 543 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 4: I can see myself married to a CIS woman. But 544 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 4: I just I needed people to catch up with the 545 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 4: right person. Yeah, like I'm not even this like I'm 546 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 4: not this like perfect individual, Like I have my issues too, 547 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 4: But when I I'm not going to settle, like I 548 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 4: can't even begin to grow if i'm if I can't 549 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 4: be with a person that wants to grow with me. 550 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 4: So I took a lot of time off and I 551 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 4: just worked on myself. I want someone to like step 552 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 4: up to the plate, you know, where I don't have 553 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 4: to like do a shit. 554 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: Ton of work to make sure that they treat me decently. 555 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: I think also growing up right, uh, we kind of 556 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: learn about ourselves of like I need to find someone 557 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: who's confident in themselves or not going to be too 558 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: clingy or jealous. I feel like it's something like in 559 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: your twenties especially, there's no easy way to learn it. 560 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: You just have to date some crappy people to kind 561 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: of figure out what you what you need from your relationship. 562 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 4: And it and it sucks because like I'm thirty and 563 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 4: I feel like my life is just beginning. You know, 564 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 4: I'm fully medically transitioned. You know, I've had foul plasty 565 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 4: top surgery, like and. 566 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: File a plasty is that? Is that the top surgery. 567 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 4: Uh, foul plasty is dick surgery. There's there's two different 568 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 4: bottom surgeries that you can have. Uh yeah, there's a 569 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 4: there's metoida plasty and there's foul plasty. Foul plasty is 570 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: the one where you take a skin graft from somewhere 571 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 4: on your body. Mine's on my left arm and they 572 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 4: make it, make it dingus and it's real cool. You 573 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 4: make it ordering ordering a dick. We're just talking about that. 574 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 4: That's a literal ordering of a dick. It's all, yeah, 575 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 4: it's all it's all custom made, really real neat. 576 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm imagining when you say custom made, I'm 577 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: thinking like cars and like how some of the cars 578 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: have those like hydraulic. 579 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I want a bristed power penis. I would like, Uh, 580 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 4: I want to where's my robot dick? 581 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: Why not? Yeah, where's the suture? So no robot dick 582 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 2: at the moment. But how do you feel. 583 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 3: Now going through? 584 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 4: It really feels like you're My life is just starting 585 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 4: now because like if you were to look at me 586 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 4: naked in a men's locker room, you wouldn't be able 587 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 4: to tell the difference between me and assist man. 588 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 3: So I go out in the. 589 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 4: World and people are just they treat me a certain 590 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 4: way and they just expect me they like I. You know, 591 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 4: Passing is a term in the trans community. For like 592 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,479 Speaker 4: it means passing as sis gender and trans people have 593 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 4: different thoughts on that, you know, like some some trans 594 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 4: people don't want to pass. 595 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 3: Some people don't believe in passing. 596 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 4: Some people are like, yeah, we should all just you know, 597 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 4: and I understand all the perspectives. But for me, I'm 598 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 4: I'm very fortunate that I that I do pass, because 599 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 4: it doesn't I don't have to deal with as much 600 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 4: stress or anything as as other people might just because 601 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 4: culturally people want us to look a certain way and 602 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 4: all that, and for me, what I need to do, 603 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 4: needed to do for my piece was to to look 604 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 4: this way. So I'm glad that I'm that I'm able 605 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 4: to personally because I don't suffer dysphoria anymore. It's basically 606 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 4: just it's been reduced to like ninety nine like five 607 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 4: percent of the time. I'm fantastic, and I strugg I 608 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 4: only say ninety nine percent because I struggled to think 609 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 4: of the last time I felt ysphoria. So I'm fortunate 610 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 4: that I don't have to deal with other other things, 611 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 4: you know, like you know, if I didn't pass, if 612 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 4: like people were going to be aggressive to me or whatever, 613 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 4: and I you know, uh, and you experience that at 614 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 4: the beginning of the transition. But yeah, I feel like 615 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 4: my I'm I'm starting life now at thirty, where I 616 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 4: have my Dick, and I just I couldn't be happier. 617 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 4: It's a weird feeling. It's because I didn't think I'm 618 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 4: you know, like to like being a little dark, Like 619 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 4: I didn't think I was going to live this long, 620 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 4: so like, I don't know, what to do with the 621 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 4: time now that I have so dating and all that, 622 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 4: it really puts things in perspective where now I'm so 623 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 4: confident and secure that I'm like, yeah, I don't I 624 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 4: don't want to date someone that I'm not going to 625 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 4: be happy with. So I'm not settling. And that means 626 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 4: that I've been alone for a bit. Like I have 627 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 4: a handful of like casual partners, but they're all married, 628 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 4: and they they have they're dating other people and their 629 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 4: spouses are dating other people and all that, and they 630 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 4: don't none of them live in the same state as me. 631 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 4: So I have a lot of free time and I'm 632 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 4: able to just chill by myself and be just I'm 633 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 4: really happy. 634 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, focus on your creative projects, and yeah, just be 635 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: who you are. 636 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 4: Like, I'm really happy in my life and my career, 637 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 4: and I enjoy the people I'm hooking up with. But 638 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 4: sometimes I do think about, like how I haven't had 639 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 4: a serious partner in two or three years, and I 640 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 4: wonder if that's something that I would like to do, 641 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 4: And I think about it, but I can't even begin 642 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 4: to think about it if really, because who am I 643 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 4: going to date? I don't know who is mature enough 644 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 4: for me and who I can be comfortable and happy with. 645 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 4: So I guess I'm kind of just sitting around and 646 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 4: waiting and seeing if someone enters my life. 647 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: Who is like that and comes along. 648 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 4: We'll think about it when we get to the bridge, 649 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 4: But right now, I don't even know if the bridge 650 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 4: exists or where it is, so I'm just kind of vibing. 651 00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: I like it. 652 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: This is the first verse in your song, and you're 653 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: just like you're ready for that chorus to hit. The 654 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: songs go, and the song's existing. You just don't know 655 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: how it's gonna wrap up at the end. 656 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 4: That's a cool romantic thought, right is to think about, 657 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 4: Like my future wife is like somewhere out there, I 658 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 4: just don't know. Yeah, she's living her life and like, 659 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 4: you know, I'll meet her someday and that's cool. 660 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 2: That's very sweet. 661 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: Would you say that you're a romantic then, I know 662 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: you said you're polyamorous, but do you want a long 663 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: term partner maybe even marriage. 664 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 4: It's a good question, and it's something I think about 665 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 4: a lot because I'm I'm actually somewhere on the a 666 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 4: romantic scale, and that's just because of tessoserone therapy, and 667 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 4: that's that's a possible side effect of it, is losing 668 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 4: your romantic attraction to people. But I am very at 669 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 4: my heart, like I care a lot about people, and 670 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 4: I love my friends, and I love all kinds of relationships, 671 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 4: you know, whether they're sexual or platonic or romantic. It's 672 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 4: not that I don't feel romantic attraction, it's just more 673 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: rareer for me. Tesoserone kind of can kind of dull 674 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 4: it a little bit. But through switching up my dosages, 675 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 4: I've I've I wouldn't be able to quickly explain it 676 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 4: to you. But basically, like when you're taking tesoserone, if 677 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 4: you get like the more that you are front loading, 678 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 4: the more you're more side effects you're going to have. 679 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 4: So there was a point in time where I was 680 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 4: doing bi weekly shots instead of once a week shots, 681 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 4: and that just increased like all of the puberty, the 682 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 4: male puberty stuff where my acne was worse, my sex 683 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 4: drive was just like off the charts, like all these 684 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 4: effects were happening. 685 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: Would you call it a second puberty. 686 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the term trans people use for, like 687 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 4: the second puberty. Like this is like this is the okay, 688 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 4: I didn't know second time is a chart. 689 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 3: We're gonna get it right this time. 690 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 4: On my journey, like my dosages have changed, I was 691 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 4: like a cool effect that I thought might happen and 692 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 4: i've really recently has happened is that I'm able to 693 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 4: cry for the first time in like two or three years, 694 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 4: which has been really cool. I didn't realize I missed 695 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 4: that that that can be a side effective testosterone where 696 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 4: I just I was able to access my tear ducts 697 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 4: if I was playing a character or I was voice acting, 698 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 4: but as myself, I wasn't really able to cry for 699 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 4: like two or so years. And I realize, like, oh, 700 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 4: if I switch up my shots to every four days, 701 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 4: I might like start, you know, being able to cry. 702 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 3: And I have. 703 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 4: I've like I hit a sweet spot where I don't 704 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 4: I still can't cry for more than I want to say, 705 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 4: like eight seconds at a time, but I'm I'm feeling 706 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 4: the emotions from like emotional commercials and like I teared 707 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 4: up a lot watching the fucking Matilda musical and like 708 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 4: these things where I realize, like, oh I can cry now, 709 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 4: that's cool, But it's really a great sweet spot where 710 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 4: I'm not crying because of like something making me angry. 711 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 3: I like that. 712 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 4: I'm not crying because of things that make me angry 713 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 4: or sad. I'm crying because I saw a video on 714 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 4: Facebook where a cat and a bunny are friends, you know, Like, 715 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 4: I love that sweet spot. I hope it stays at 716 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 4: this level because I. 717 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 3: Love being able to feel the release. 718 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 4: I didn't realize that I missed crying. But that also 719 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 4: means that my romantic attraction to people is kind of 720 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 4: slowly starting to rear its head again. So you know, 721 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 4: who knows if I'm gonna feel something for someone, you know, 722 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 4: But that's a good sign of, like, you know, the 723 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 4: situation has changed, Like, oh, I wasn't interested in romance 724 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 4: for a while, but now I might be. Let's see 725 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 4: if the right person awakens something in me, you know. 726 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, your body's trying to find that like 727 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: that stasis again where it partly I can be itself. Well, 728 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: I think that's very sweet that, after some time figuring 729 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: yourself out, that you're now like looking actively for a 730 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: romantic love partner. 731 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 2: This could be a whole new story for you. 732 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, because I used to be very romantic before tasasroone. 733 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 4: So now I'm able to do it in a healthy way. 734 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 4: Where before I was like I hate myself, so I 735 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 4: need someone to make me feel good. And now it's 736 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 4: like I love myself and I would also be cool 737 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 4: with someone loving me and me being able to love 738 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 4: someone else, Like it's a it's love in a healthy way, 739 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 4: the way that like it should exist. 740 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. 741 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 1: And once again, I think that comes with experience and 742 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: time of like figuring out that you need to be 743 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: happy with yourself before another person can make you extra happy, 744 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: because if you put too much steak in another person, 745 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: you're like a wobbly bridge. You know, one false step 746 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: and the whole thing could snap because you're putting so 747 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: much emotional steak in another person. 748 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 749 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 4: You gotta have a strong base, like the foundation has 750 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 4: to be solid before I'm comfortable in a relationship like 751 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 4: That's that's why I I left the one that I 752 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 4: was in is it's like you're great. The problem is 753 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,839 Speaker 4: not you, it's I'm not a fully formed person because 754 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 4: I haven't been able, I haven't been allowed to be 755 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 4: fully formed before this point. I need to go out 756 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 4: and live on my own and figure out who I am. 757 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: Have you had a lot of discrimination in the dating scene, 758 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: either through the dating app, messaging, or in person. 759 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 4: Fortunately that it hasn't really affected me being able to 760 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 4: like find anyone to date. Like, I'm very fortunate that 761 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 4: like people are. 762 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 3: I guess I'm. 763 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 4: An individual that people want to date and hook up 764 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 4: with because I am I'm you're a cool guy. 765 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope it. 766 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 4: Looks it seems that way that that there are people 767 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 4: that are trying to date or hook up with me 768 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 4: all the time. 769 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 3: So I do have a lot of there's no douchey 770 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 3: way to say that, but. 771 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's great. I'm glad these people are just 772 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 2: flock to you. 773 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I feel like a douche. Uh, I'm fortunate. 774 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 4: I'm fortunate that I'm not bad looking and I have 775 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 4: an okay personality, so people tend to gravitate towards me. 776 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 4: So I do have a lot of like, uh, people 777 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,359 Speaker 4: that are willing and able. The issue is mainly just 778 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 4: finding people who have knowledge of transmen, because like, that's 779 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 4: not really something that I thought I needed going in, 780 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 4: but it is. It's so nice to like message with 781 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 4: someone and not have to explain everything to them like 782 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 4: and the other day I was doing the preemptive questions 783 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 4: of like, so, like, have you have you hooked up 784 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 4: with transmen before? Because usually they will bring to the 785 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 4: table something weird or fetishy to say, and I'll know 786 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 4: not to talk to them anymore. I'll be polite, but 787 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 4: I'll kind of ghost them a little bit, like trend 788 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 4: out of messaging them. 789 00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 3: But it's nice. 790 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 4: When when they are not being fetishy at all and 791 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 4: we're just having normal conversation, because then I have to 792 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 4: be a fetishy I have to bring up that I'm trans, 793 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 4: so I have to say the weird thing that like 794 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 4: it would be weird if they said it to me, 795 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 4: but I have to say it because you know, if 796 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 4: someone was like, I've hooked up with transman before, I'd 797 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 4: be like red flag. But because we've been talking for 798 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 4: a bit and you haven't brought up the fact that 799 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 4: I'm trans, now I have to bring it up. So 800 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 4: I'm like, have you hooked up with transman before? And 801 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 4: he was like, yeah, no, I've I've I've hooked up 802 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 4: with and I've I had some long term relationship with 803 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 4: ships with with transman. I see that you you talk 804 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 4: about in your bio that you that you have a dick? 805 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 4: Did you do me tooido plastic or foul plastic if 806 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 4: you don't mind me asking? And it was so hot, 807 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 4: like I never had a sis man, like you know 808 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 4: the terminology, and like bring that on. I was and 809 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,359 Speaker 4: in my head, I was like, I'll suck your dick 810 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 4: right now. I don't even we've had We've only been 811 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 4: talking for like ten minutes, and I like, do you 812 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 4: want to come over? 813 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 3: Do you want to have coffee? I don't let you know. 814 00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 2: It's it's knowledge is sexy. 815 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,280 Speaker 4: Knowledge is so sexy. So it's very it's very nice 816 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 4: Grinder for me. I'm fortunate and I have a different 817 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 4: experience now that I pass and everything. I have different 818 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 4: issues on Grinder than transmen who don't pass, because sometimes 819 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,720 Speaker 4: people were messaging me, like before I had bottom surgery, 820 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 4: they would message me, not realizing that I put trans 821 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 4: in my bio, and then they'd be like, ah shit, 822 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. I'm I don't think we're a match. 823 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,719 Speaker 4: I did not see that, and I'm sorry about that. 824 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 4: I'm like, ye, any worries I have. I hear horror 825 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 4: stories about Grinder, but I've had great experiences with it 826 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 4: just because of my privilege and and everything that comes 827 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 4: along with me. There's some CIS guys on Grinder that 828 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 4: are not as knowledgeable about transmen, but like find us 829 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 4: hot and want to fuck us, and those have been 830 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 4: interesting where pre bottom surgery, I was like messaging with 831 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 4: this dude, like really hot sis dude, not all not 832 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,919 Speaker 4: all the brains going up in that boy, but god 833 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 4: he had an eight pack and a huge dick. But 834 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 4: he was like we never actually ended up hooking up 835 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 4: because he was talking to me and talking about how 836 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 4: he hooks up with transmen all the time and he 837 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 4: doesn't have to wear a condom. And I was like, hey, 838 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 4: you know that tasacerone isn't birth control, right and he 839 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 4: was like, yeah. 840 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: It is. 841 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 3: I was like, oh no, and it's not. 842 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 4: Actually transman can get pregnant and he was like, oh, so, 843 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 4: like did you do you want did you want to 844 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 4: hook up? I was like I'm good man, man, thank you, 845 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 4: though I would like to wear a condom and he 846 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 4: was like all right, that's fair, and then we stopped talking. 847 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 4: But it is just it's very funny that like the 848 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 4: most the most that's the most aggressive messages I got 849 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 4: when I was living in West Philly, which is like 850 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 4: a very queer area. It seems to be for me 851 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 4: when I started passing and stuff people CIS men are, 852 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 4: with my experience, at least, it seems like they are 853 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 4: too horny to be hateful. I guess they're just they're 854 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 4: just dumb. They're not like trying to be offensive. So 855 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,479 Speaker 4: like the more offensive things I would get from CIS 856 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 4: women that I was dating and hooking up with, and 857 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 4: the guys that I would hook up on a grinder 858 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 4: with would just be kind of ignorant, and then I 859 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,240 Speaker 4: would explain things to them and they'd be like, oh cool, 860 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 4: and then they were fine. You know, it's interesting seeing 861 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 4: the opposite side of things because you would assume that 862 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 4: the guys would be more like aggressive. But like the 863 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 4: one time I almost got hate crimed on a dating 864 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,040 Speaker 4: app was Tinder, It wasn't Grinder. 865 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 3: Grinder. 866 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 4: I think the guys are just too horny, Like they're 867 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 4: just they're they're not trying to like hate crime anyone 868 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 4: on purpose. 869 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 3: They're just they're just trying to like nut. 870 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 4: So that's been my experience with Grinder, and I've been 871 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 4: very fortunate because like there are. There are weird people 872 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 4: on there, and there are like bad people on there, 873 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 4: but I don't really run into them. 874 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 2: No, I mean that's that's great. 875 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you're not facing discrimination on the day 876 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: to day basis. Then that you found your niche, then 877 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: you can just be happy and thrive. 878 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 879 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 4: No, it's you form your circles, you figure out what 880 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 4: you want in your life, and a luckily grinder is 881 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 4: a place where, like I can just if I'm not 882 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 4: vibing with someone, or if someone says something weird, I 883 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 4: can just like block them and then move on. 884 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 3: There's lots of other people on there. 885 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. 886 00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 1: Would you say you're also good at just like letting 887 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: things go, na now that you're go pumped up with testosterone. 888 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,399 Speaker 4: Like letting things go as in like if someone says 889 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 4: something weird or well, yeah, you. 890 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: Just said, like these CIS men are just so confident. 891 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've gotten to that level of 892 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: confidence right aside them with just going. 893 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,239 Speaker 2: For what you want. 894 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 4: I became himbo once I started like working out and 895 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 4: the amount of testosterone in my body balanced. I'm just 896 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,040 Speaker 4: way more chill than I used to be. I used 897 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 4: to be so like emotional and manic and just sad 898 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,760 Speaker 4: and crying all the time. And now I'm just chill, 899 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 4: like I didn't cry for two years. I'm I'm just 900 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 4: very chill. And I guess that is also part of 901 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 4: why people enjoy like being with me, whether it's in 902 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 4: like a platonic or sexual, romantic or whatever context. 903 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 3: I make people feel safe. 904 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 4: Is the most common thing I hear, and that's that's 905 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 4: very nice, and that means a lot to me. 906 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 3: I feel like that's the most important thing. 907 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 4: I love making people happy, and I love making people 908 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 4: feel comfortable. So I owe a lot to Testacerone for 909 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 4: making me so chill, like making and. 910 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 2: Making you who you are, and I love that. 911 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: As I've been like making this podcast, it's been very 912 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: fun to kind of like talk to all these individuals, 913 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: and as much as we do talk about like dating 914 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: and who they are a there's so many fun just 915 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: like life little lessons we just learned along the way 916 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: of being happy who you are, like finding your right circles. 917 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: Time matures you, and it's just it's very fun to 918 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: kind of hear these like beautiful life lessons from all 919 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: these people, from all these different walks of life. So 920 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,840 Speaker 1: I think we are wrapping up our interview, but I 921 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,800 Speaker 1: would love to ask, since you have like this space, 922 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: would you like to give advice to individuals who are 923 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: dating transmen or people who are trans men like looking 924 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,960 Speaker 1: like in the dating field, Like, would you like to 925 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: give any advice. 926 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 4: I guess for like you know, for other trans men, 927 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 4: I guess, like or other trans people in general. But 928 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,080 Speaker 4: also this is good advice for anyone. Be patient, but 929 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 4: also don't settle, Like I'm it takes a lot for 930 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 4: me to I give people a lot of chances. I'm all, 931 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:59,720 Speaker 4: I'm everyone's kind of like imperfect intro trans dude, because 932 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,400 Speaker 4: I teach them with kindness and patience and I'm able to, 933 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 4: like I'm comfortable telling them, like, hey, maybe use this 934 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 4: phrasing if you would like that that this is like 935 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 4: you know, you're not actually supposed to say this thing 936 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 4: or whatever. Sis people don't realize you're not supposed to 937 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 4: do is use they them pronouns for all trans people. Uh, 938 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 4: it's kind of like training wheels where if you don't 939 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 4: know someone's pronouns, and like, you know, some people use 940 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 4: day them pronouns for everyone, and they think maybe. 941 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 3: That's the correct way to do it. 942 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 4: But for some trans people it's offensive to use day 943 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 4: of them pronouns for them, like like for me, like I, 944 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,359 Speaker 4: I only use he him. 945 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 3: I don't like when people use they for me. 946 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 4: And it's because to to to put it is that 947 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 4: I pass right, So like I don't think about the 948 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 4: fact that I'm trans. Other people remind me that I'm 949 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 4: trans when they. 950 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 3: Use they them. 951 00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 2: Sorry about that. 952 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 4: Entire podcast, You're good, Like I find in the context 953 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,760 Speaker 4: of it, it's just when I'm like out in the world, 954 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,439 Speaker 4: you know, And but I can understand why people would 955 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 4: think they then you know, you're being equal, like right, 956 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 4: But like sometimes gender for some people, gender doesn't matter, 957 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,240 Speaker 4: you know, and for some people gender is very important 958 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 4: to them as a person, Like we don't have to 959 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,880 Speaker 4: we can have gender without having gender roles, if that 960 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 4: makes sense. People don't like gender roles and like that's 961 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 4: totally legit. But for me existing out in the world, 962 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 4: I don't think about it until someone uses they them 963 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 4: for me, and I feel comfortable correcting them to be like, hey, 964 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 4: just so you know, I like hee him, so don't 965 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 4: use they them for me, and they'll be like, oh okay, 966 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 4: Like it's it seems like an obvious thing, but they 967 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,239 Speaker 4: don't think about it until someone points it out to them. 968 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 4: And that's a lot of the things that I. 969 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 3: Am fortunate that I keep. 970 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 4: I only keep people in my circle now that I 971 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 4: would be comfortable, like I don't people will correct a 972 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 4: transperson on a thing, like, for example, if I were like, hey, 973 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 4: just use hee him for me, and you know, if 974 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 4: someone would be like, oh, I use they them for everyone, 975 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 4: and I'm like, that's cool. I'm asking you to please 976 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,640 Speaker 4: use him for me because like for me, someone using 977 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 4: she her for me, for example, doesn't do anything to me. 978 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 4: It doesn't cause me dysphori it doesn't like do anything 979 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 4: because like that's clearly either someone from my past who 980 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,280 Speaker 4: is who has just had trouble catching up. But honestly, 981 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,959 Speaker 4: I'm almost five years into my transition. It doesn't really 982 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 4: happen to me anymore. Or it's just a transphobe who 983 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 4: is trying to behte ful on purpose, but like, you're 984 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 4: not going. 985 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 3: To make me experienced this for like what are you doing? 986 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,200 Speaker 4: Like I had to do that recently with someone that's 987 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,799 Speaker 4: I just started working with, and I was nervous about 988 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 4: it because I was like, oh man, I'm just like 989 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 4: I'm starting this new gig and I don't know if 990 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,799 Speaker 4: I want to like whatever, But I stuck to my 991 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,279 Speaker 4: guns and I was like, hey, just so you know, 992 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 4: I would like this, and he was like cool, thank 993 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 4: you for letting me know. And that was it, Like 994 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 4: that was the conversation. That's that's all you need to do. 995 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 4: And I realized that I'm like making people worse by 996 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 4: not correcting them, right, because like, I'm comfortable and happy 997 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 4: in my body, I'm fully rounded out. I guess if 998 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 4: that makes sense. Nothing really pierces into me anymore. I 999 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 4: don't experience dysphoria, and I don't like, you know, not 1000 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,279 Speaker 4: that all. You know, all trans people don't have to 1001 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,760 Speaker 4: experience this for you. There's no one way to be trans. 1002 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 4: But for me as a person, I'm pretty like, I'm 1003 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 4: pretty tough, long like, I don't nothing really affects me 1004 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 4: in that way. But if I don't correct someone on something, 1005 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 4: they might accidentally say something in front of another transperson 1006 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:38,919 Speaker 4: who may may not be having as good of a day, 1007 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 4: you know, or might not be as comfortable with themselves 1008 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 4: or not as much into their transition as I am 1009 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 4: so like I'm actively making my friends worse by not 1010 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,080 Speaker 4: letting them know that they did something wrong. Yeah, and 1011 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,720 Speaker 4: once I started realizing that, I was like, oh, okay, 1012 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 4: now it's not just for me. So with that in mind, 1013 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 4: I'm able to like talk to people. And that's also 1014 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 4: you know, bringing it back around. This started because you 1015 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 4: asked me what advice I have for people like me, 1016 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,880 Speaker 4: So also that's that's some advice. Also is let your 1017 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 4: friends know if if you want them to use terms 1018 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 4: for you that are more comfortable, like talk to talk 1019 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 4: to your people, because I want to make sure that 1020 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 4: I am giving people knowledge so that they can go 1021 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,279 Speaker 4: out in the world and and be more kind to 1022 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 4: the world and so people that they might not have 1023 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 4: the lived experience of those are. 1024 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 3: My those are my suggestions. Be patient, be patient, but 1025 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:35,200 Speaker 3: also don't settle. 1026 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 1: Don't settle, and then also feel free, like speak up 1027 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 1: for yourself, but you. 1028 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 2: Don't have to be rude or malicious about it. 1029 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, just just advocate for yourself. People are going to 1030 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 4: take your tone how they will. Like I remember like 1031 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 4: what a shithead I used to be, where like I 1032 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,480 Speaker 4: didn't know that I was trans yet, but like I 1033 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,120 Speaker 4: remember like a trans woman corrected me on something, and 1034 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,240 Speaker 4: I remember thinking she was so rude for for correcting 1035 00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 4: me on something of how to like talk to her. 1036 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,840 Speaker 4: And now I think back on that, I'm like, she 1037 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 4: just asked me to do a thing. 1038 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,360 Speaker 3: There was no tone in her voice like there was. 1039 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 3: She just asked something. 1040 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 4: To make her more comfortable, And I think about how 1041 00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 4: fucking stupid I was for thinking that. So, like, there 1042 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 4: are gonna be people who think you're being rude even 1043 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 4: when you're not, but just be patient with it, like 1044 00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 4: I know it sucks. Like the right people will be like, oh, 1045 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 4: I'm sorry and correct themselves, and the wrong people will 1046 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 4: maybe leave your life, and that's cool because you don't 1047 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:34,080 Speaker 4: need that fucking energy. But and for others that aren't 1048 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 4: like me, I guess the advice would be, it's it's okay. 1049 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,960 Speaker 4: I think in most instances, if you don't know someone's 1050 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,960 Speaker 4: pronouns and you use the them for them, but then 1051 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 4: like you go on their Twitter, like you go on 1052 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,759 Speaker 4: find their pronouns or just ask them if you can't 1053 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 4: find them anywhere. What my brain does is like if 1054 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 4: I don't know someone's pronouns, I will find them before 1055 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 4: I meet the person in real life, you know, or 1056 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 4: I talked to them, people have them listened in their 1057 00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,319 Speaker 4: Twitter bios, people have them, you know, or just ask 1058 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,720 Speaker 4: a friend and worst case, just ask them. It's better 1059 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,359 Speaker 4: than saying something that makes them feel shitty. And you know, 1060 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 4: it might not be obvious to other people, but like 1061 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,680 Speaker 4: if you mess up on someone's pronounce, just correct it 1062 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,000 Speaker 4: and move on and like don't say anything else about it, 1063 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 4: you know, like just. 1064 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, just like we were saying earlier, right, humility is 1065 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:23,520 Speaker 1: so important. 1066 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 4: If it don't make us feel bad, because then that's 1067 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 4: the opposite of it. If you're like, I'm so sorry, 1068 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 4: and like you make a big deal of it, then 1069 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,960 Speaker 4: we feel like we're the problem, you know, like because 1070 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 4: now we've put a full stop and like, oh, if 1071 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 4: I wasn't trans, then we wouldn't be embarrassed right now, 1072 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 4: you know, So just y'all correct and move on. I 1073 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 4: know it's like it's it's a very basic thing to me, 1074 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,760 Speaker 4: but but I'm thinking now about like what things weren't basic. 1075 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 3: So there you go. 1076 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,319 Speaker 4: There's some there's some info that maybe if you didn't 1077 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 4: know it, now you do. 1078 00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, this is your time to tell 1079 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: people your story, your experiences and hopefully just pass along 1080 00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: those seeds of wisdom and people grow. 1081 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,520 Speaker 2: From them even fantastic. Thank you so much. 1082 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to plug or that's something 1083 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,560 Speaker 1: that you're working on, or or if you have social 1084 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,680 Speaker 1: media or. 1085 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 2: Your grinder profile, if anyone wants to come find you. 1086 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm no whacking on most things now A 1087 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,040 Speaker 4: c K I n G. I'm no whacking on Twitter 1088 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 4: and Twitch and YouTube. I do a show on YouTube 1089 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,879 Speaker 4: called Pink Blue where I have tracked my transition since 1090 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,719 Speaker 4: the very beginning, and I do videos on sexuality and 1091 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 4: a series of vlogs where I was preparing for foul Plast. 1092 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:39,560 Speaker 4: I track my you know, fellow stage zero one two, 1093 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,120 Speaker 4: I had the rod removed. 1094 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 3: It's a it's a whole whole thing I'm getting to 1095 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 3: put in putting. 1096 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 4: I'm gonna get put back in next July. So like 1097 00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,880 Speaker 4: there's gonna be another long vlog about that. But basically 1098 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 4: there's there's videos for everyone on my channel, whether you 1099 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,960 Speaker 4: want something more long form or if you want just 1100 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,240 Speaker 4: a more actualized thing of me just talking about trainshit, 1101 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 4: and it's not just transhit like I talk about queer 1102 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,360 Speaker 4: stuff on the show, I'm I'm also I'm no whackting 1103 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,360 Speaker 4: hell yeah. On Instagram, that's the only one that I 1104 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 4: have a different name on. 1105 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 2: Yes, go find Jesse, go see what he is doing. 1106 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 2: All right? Amazing? Well, thank you so much Jesse for 1107 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:19,000 Speaker 2: joining us. 1108 00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:20,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, no problem, Thank you for having me. 1109 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:22,799 Speaker 2: Ugh, that was so much fun talking to Jesse. 1110 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: I really have been a fan of his stuff for years, 1111 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: so it was so cool to be able to talk 1112 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,399 Speaker 1: to him today. I feel like my main takeaway, and 1113 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,640 Speaker 1: obviously you can take away whatever you want, but I 1114 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,399 Speaker 1: think my biggest thing is don't be afraid to ask 1115 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,399 Speaker 1: questions about someone if you don't understand something, or if 1116 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: you don't know about something, if you don't understand it, 1117 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,839 Speaker 1: it's okay to ask questions. Just be respectful, don't ask 1118 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,479 Speaker 1: it in a judgmental way. But it's okay to learn. 1119 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,799 Speaker 1: In fact, that's the only way we're going to get 1120 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: better at things. And you know, I'm asking questions. I'm 1121 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 1: learning so much and this is incredible and I love it. 1122 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 1: At least for me, I'm having a great time. I 1123 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: hope you're having a great time too. Thank you guys 1124 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,399 Speaker 1: so much for listening. I hope you did a little 1125 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: bit of laughing and learning and loving today. Thank you 1126 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,359 Speaker 1: again to Matt Langston from the Jeli Rocks for letting 1127 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,200 Speaker 1: us use their song Glued. You can find their song 1128 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,320 Speaker 1: down below if you're looking for more. 1129 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:16,759 Speaker 5: Of their work. 1130 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,360 Speaker 1: If you love what you heard today, feel for to 1131 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: leave a review and or a rating. And if you 1132 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,200 Speaker 1: think you have a perspective or story to tell, please 1133 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,879 Speaker 1: send us an email, come back next week or more 1134 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,359 Speaker 1: unconventional love stories. And remember don't keep your cards too 1135 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,640 Speaker 1: close to your chest. 1136 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,040 Speaker 2: Well you'll never be open to new hands. Have a 1137 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,560 Speaker 2: great day and please thank you. 1138 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:53,360 Speaker 5: Rene nice, Thank 1139 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:00,239 Speaker 1: Yeh