WEBVTT - Disinformation, Misinformation, and Flat Out Lies 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.400 Good morning, Peeve Senna, Welcome to Okay f Daily with 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:19.840 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody Recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.840 you know if you like me, yesterday, decided to do 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:31.280 anything anything else other than listen to the twice impeached 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:38.880 criminal ass insurrectionist, grifting motherfucker Donald Trump announced that he 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.640 is going to be running for president again for a 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:47.440 third time in twenty twenty four. Um, then you'll probably 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.479 need some type of update. Um. I decided to basically 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:55.720 stare at a wall because I found that more entertaining, 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.480 interesting and informative than listening to a grift ass lying motherfucker. 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:06.959 But let me say this what really has gotten me 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:13.040 as I woke up and read all of you know, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.440 the headlines and seeing how the media once again is 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.840 going to fail the American people in terms of the 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.840 type of coverage that they're going to supply Donald Trump with. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.400 You know, we shouldn't be here, right, we shouldn't even 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.560 be in this place. And why shouldn't we be here? Oh? 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.560 I don't know, because we should have a Department of 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.400 Justice that is a run by a person who is 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:51.200 invested in creating a justice system that doesn't have multiple tracks, right, 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:55.120 meaning that if you happen to be wealthy, white male 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.200 and cists and a former president of the United States, 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.639 that you get to go track yourself on easy Street 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.320 where nothing touches you. The road is made of teflon 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.200 and all as well. It doesn't matter what crimes you've committed. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.040 It doesn't matter how boldly you have proclaimed those crimes. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.680 It doesn't matter if you have said out loud find 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.360 me eleven thousand, six hundred and some odd votes. It 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.440 doesn't matter that you have created companies that are basically 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.560 shell operations to scam people out of an education, out 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:34.840 of money, that you can do whatever the fuck you want. 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.160 We shouldn't be in this position because we should have 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.239 a Department of Justice that two years, almost two fucking 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.160 years since this motherfucker sent thousands of people to kill 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.839 his vice president of the United States, that he let 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.920 armed insurrectionists into a rally and then pointed them in 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.560 the direction of the Capitol Building, that he wouldn't be 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.480 able to announce his presidency because he would be in jail, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.639 he would have been under indictment, he would be fending 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:07.520 off right, not just federal investigations but he would actually 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.720 be fending off several indictments, right, so he wouldn't have 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.240 the time, the space, or the place to be able 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:20.080 to announce a third attempt at running for office. But 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.440 that's not where we live, right. We live in America, 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.119 where whiteness is beyond the best currency that you could 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:32.240 possibly ever have, Where wealth right essentially wraps that you know, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:39.880 skin in every different kind of defense, bulletproof, teflon tool 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.720 that you could possibly have, Where you can say whatever 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.240 you want, you can do whatever you want. You can 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.440 be accused of multiple cases of sexual assault, you can 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.520 be accused of grifting, you can be accused of inciting 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.360 a riot, and all of these things. And guess what, 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.120 Because you're white, and you're well healthy, and your siss 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:04.040 and you're famous, you get to run for president of 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.560 the United States. Not only does Donald Trump continue to 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:15.280 pose an absolute threat to our democracy, right, not only 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:20.760 do his words essentially fall on the ears of people 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.080 who are so trigger happy, right that they pose with 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:31.200 their ar fifteens, right, that they are so trigger happy 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:36.640 that they actually put up target practice with the faces 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.040 of members of Congress. That they are so trigger happy 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.440 that one of them went and broke into Speaker Pelosi's 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:49.960 home and violently assaulted her husband with a hammer. Donald 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.039 Trump shouldn't just be in jail. He should be under 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.320 a jail with a fucking muzzle over his mouth, because 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.159 that is what actual justice would look like in this country. That, 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.880 you know, attempting to overthrow the government, attempting to incite 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:10.080 an insurrection, attempting to steal an election, breaking the emolument's clause. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.840 I mean, the list fucking goes on and on and on. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.400 But Donald Trump is walking free. Oh I'm sorry. He 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.279 also stole a boatload of fucking documents that you know, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:25.239 pinpoint nuclear intelligence and agents and all of these things 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:31.880 as well, but still friends close to two years to 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.320 the anniversary of the insurrection, and Donald Trump is free 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.719 to announce that he is going to run again, to 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.960 try and run again our country into the ground. Now, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:50.040 what I find most interesting is this a couple of 0:05:50.040 --> 0:06:00.839 things right, One that Donald Trump's own daughter, Ivanka Trump, 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.839 you know, the only one that he actually likes, wrote 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:10.320 this on her Instagram following the announcement of the twice 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:15.520 impeach criminal ask President her father on Instagram. This is 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:20.200 what she wrote, I love my father very much. This 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.120 time around, I am choosing to prioritize my young children 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.599 and the private life we are creating as a family. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.000 I do not plan to be involved in politics. While 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.200 I will always love and support my father, going forward, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.400 I will do so outside the political arena. I am 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.480 grateful to have had the honor of serving the American people, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.080 and I will always be proud of many of our 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.440 administration's accomplishments. Would one of those accomplishments be putting children 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:54.400 in cages? Well, one of those accomplishments having had over 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.200 four hundred thousand Americans die of COVID nineteen because your 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:03.000 father lied about how contagious and serious the virus was 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.760 in order to stoke up fear and weaponize a virus. 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.720 Is that one of the accomplishments. Is it running the 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.840 Department of Education into the ground. Is it potentially having 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:19.320 tweeted us into war with Iran? Is it embracing white 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.800 supremacists so that they felt like they had a leader 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.239 in the White House? Which one of the many accomplishments 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.600 do you think that Ivanka Trump is pointing to? And 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.440 we know exactly what Ivanka Trump is doing, because she's 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.680 the brightest of the batch of idiots that are the 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:40.000 spawn of the Trumps, and that is creating an arm's 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:44.240 length of distance between herself and her twice impeached criminal 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:49.440 ass president father, right that she don't want to get 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.840 roped up wrapped up in this that you know. Of course, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.080 there's no real investigation that's going on with her husband 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.200 and how he managed to score two billion dollars from 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.360 Mohammed been Alam, the Saudi Prince, following his exit from 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.480 the Trump administration. Could it have anything to do with, Oh, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.120 I don't know, the myriad of files that you know 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.320 Donald Trump was hiding at Mara Lago. Could it have 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.480 anything to do with the access that MBS was given 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:21.280 to the I don't know, entirety of the United States 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.600 because he had the president and Jared Kushner in his pocket. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.280 But there's no investigation that's really happening. They are nothing 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.959 of Nope, because again, why straight siths wealthy? You know, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.840 you get to run shit and everybody else has to 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.920 duck and cover. I'm just so fucking tired, right, I'm 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:47.120 just I am. I am so tired of the media 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.480 and their lack of investigation and interrogation, their lack of 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.000 coverage that actually lays bare the facts of who Donald 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.760 Trump is. I'm so fucking tired of people twisting themselves 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:05.480 into knots and contorting themselves so that they don't offend 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.840 the far right, so that they don't offend Donald Trump. 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.200 I'm so tired of the chicken shit bullshit out of 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:16.959 our fucking media that is supposed to be right about 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.920 informing the public. They're supposed to be a check and balance. 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.800 I'm tired of us embracing liars. I'm tired of no 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.320 one being held accountable for anything that they fucking do, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.719 so long as they are white, so long as they 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.440 are straight, so long as they assist and connected to 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:41.320 powerful people. I'm tired of it. Merrick Garland has failed 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.800 the American people because Donald Trump should have never been 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:51.319 given the opportunity to announce a fucking run. It's like, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.000 what are you doing? And then I have people that 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.679 have the audacity to tell me on this failed social 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.920 media app Twitter that, oh my god, do you want 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.160 it done faster? Do you want it done right? Bitch? 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:08.120 Are we swimming in molasses right now? Are you fucking dumb? 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.600 Do you know how quick black and brown boys and 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.240 men are picked up on the street and charge the 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.880 book thrown at them for the smallest fucking offenses. And 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:24.520 you're telling me that we have a laundry list of 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.080 offenses in criminal activity that Donald Trump has done and 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.400 ain't not one fucking indictment rollout since that motherfucker left office. 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:41.000 That is bullshit. It's bullshit and an absolute travesty and 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.800 a miscarriage of justice for our democracy. You want to 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.160 know why our democracy is still at risk because we 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.400 architects of the insurrection are still running around free. Because 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:59.160 you have Clarence Thomas who is still voting to deny 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:04.679 access to phone records and rightfully doing so, because nobody 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.240 has opened up in an impeachment inquiry into him and 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.920 his fucking involvement with his insurrection. As wife, I'm just 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:20.480 sick of the bullshit, y'all. Like it is exhausting. And 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:26.800 that's why I'm so grateful for my next guest and 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.200 the conversation that we have around the importance of truth 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:41.720 and integrity and character. Doctor Lewis V. Baldwin has written 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:49.360 a book entitled The Arc of Truth, The Thinking of 0:11:49.400 --> 0:12:00.040 Martin Luther King Junior, and in this book is what 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.880 many have said is the definitive volume on Martin Luther 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:13.240 King Junior's understanding of truth. And I want to read 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:19.480 you just a little bit about what this book is 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.280 about and why we should be reading it, particularly in 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.240 this time. Martin Luther King Junior said and wrote as 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.720 much or more about the meaning, nature, and power of 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.240 truth as did any other prominent figure in the nineteen 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:40.480 fifties and sixties. King was not only vastly influential as 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.560 an advocate for and defender of truth, he also did 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.920 more than anyone in his time to organize truth into 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:54.559 a movement for the liberation, uplift, and empowerment of humanity, 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:59.120 efforts that ultimately resulted in the loss of his life. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.040 Draw on King's published and unpublished sermons, speeches, and writings, 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:09.520 The Arc of Truth explores his lifelong pilgrimage in pursuit 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:15.520 of truth. Ultimately, King's significance for humanity is not only 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.360 his contributions as a preacher, pastor, civil rights leader and 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:25.760 world figure. He was and remains equally impactful as a theologian, philosopher, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:33.400 and atheists whose life and thought evince and enduring search 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:40.640 for and commitment to truth. I can think of no 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:51.040 better time to have a conversation about inevitable truths, about 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:57.520 the truth of who this nation is, the truth of 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:04.280 the dream that America is and was supposed to offer 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:12.080 to all of its inhabitants, and how doctor Martin Luther 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:23.320 King's dream for humanity cannot be realized when there are 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:30.120 alternate realities that people are existing in. So the conversation 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:36.960 that I have with doctor Baldwin today is about the 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:46.360 threat that our democracy is under because of disinformation, misinformation 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:52.120 and flat out lies that have taken hold in the 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.720 hearts and minds of tens of millions because of Donald 0:14:56.760 --> 0:15:02.720 Trump and Trumpism. Can we get back to a place 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:11.920 of shared truth. That's a question that I asked doctor Baldwin. Next, folks, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.000 I am very excited to welcome to woke f Daily 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.480 for the very first time doctor Lewis Baldwin, scholar and 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.520 author of the book The Arc of Truth, The Thinking 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:29.560 of Martin Luther King Junior. Doctor Baldwin, we are living 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:34.040 in a really perilous time in this country in terms 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:38.400 of our relationship to the truth. Yes, can you talk 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.080 about why you think that we are in this crisis 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.440 and how the lessons the lessons that we can learn 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.880 from doctor Martin Luther King, Junior and his relationship to 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.480 the truth. Yes, I think there's always a mental problem 0:15:55.720 --> 0:16:02.040 in this country with us coming to terms with truth. Certainly, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.160 I'll use an example, I'll fail you to come to 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:11.520 terms with the sad, painful and uncomfortable truths about our history, 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.480 particularly as that relates to the treatment of people's of color, 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:20.640 communities of color. And there's always Doctor King understood this 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.760 that our entire during our entire history, we've had a 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.120 problem coming to terms with truth. And I think what 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.280 we see today as a product of that in political circles. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:42.480 Because actual facts, objective truths, scientific facts no longer figure 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:48.040 significantly in public discourse and certainly not in political discourse. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:54.600 Scholars are writing today about the post truth age, an 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:58.720 age in which there is a breakdown of the old 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:03.160 standards and true additions as they relate to truth and 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:07.720 truth telling. And doctor King grew up in a family 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:12.040 in which truth was considered a supreme value, and throughout 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:17.920 his public life he told us repeatedly that the struggle 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:24.320 involved essentially coming to terms without truth about ourselves, living 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.160 up to our self evident truths as expressed in our 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:32.800 founding documents. So he taught us a lot about the 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.600 power of truth and truth telling. And he also taught 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.240 us a lot about the moral obligation to speak truth 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.159 to power. And that's why I think doctor King is 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:50.560 relevant in these times when truth and facts seem to 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.920 no longer matter. You know, at the beginning, I would 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:02.000 say of the Trump presidency, America was introduced to a 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:10.000 term called alternative facts. By at that time, Kelly Ann 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.719 Conway said, do you have facts, and you have alternative facts? 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:18.040 And in the media, in the media, folks laughed, right, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.359 and they and they they thought that that was funny. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.880 That would be a very crucial moment I think for 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:31.199 our political consciousness and our understanding of what should be 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:36.960 expected from our political leaders. How do you think that 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.919 the media and I would say political scholars in general, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.639 kind of failed in that moment. Something that was presented 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:53.280 as serious they laughed off. What should we have done instead? 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.680 I think there should have been a response from religious leaders, 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:04.720 from where I'm meaning politicians, and from the general public. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:10.119 Because when the term alternative facts was used, it was 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:15.359 obvious at that time that the direction that we're trending 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.800 in of course was not good that we were moving 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.879 further and further away from a truth telling culture and 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.679 to a point where we no longer lived in the 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:32.120 same reality. And I think that is the problem today. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.240 So many of us live in different realities, and it's 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.400 hard to get people to a point of reality when 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.399 they're not living in the same reality. And I think 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:52.600 we've allowed conspiracy theories, lies, disinformation from the highest levels 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:56.880 of our political life to shape public discourse in this country. 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.320 And unfortunately, we have hood much from religious leaders in 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:07.200 terms of will pushback. We haven't heard much from politicians 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:11.880 who who have moral sensibility. They have not done much 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.240 in terms of pushback. And of course, unfortunately, those of 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:23.080 us in the public square have not only celebrated figures 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:28.840 who engage in anti truth telling and conspiracy theories, we 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.760 have rewarded them in so many instants, and that I 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:41.439 think is problematic. How do you see the disinformation that 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.480 doctor King was wrestling with in the nineteen fifties and 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:51.359 sixties and the disinformation that we are wrestling with now. 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:56.720 Because Doctor King was called everything outside of his name 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:01.800 right by white supremacist, racist leaders. He was called a liar, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.040 he was called an extremist. He was called all of 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:10.600 these things. And yet it was during a time when 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.800 we had three major news stations that we all watched, 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.680 we had the same radio programs that we all watched, 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:27.280 now decades later, that misinformation and disinformation is pervasive, and 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:30.680 how how do you how do you see how we 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.040 how we deal with it? Because America, in a lot 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:38.240 of ways, um if I'm not mistaken, has been based 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:43.080 on a lot of lies about our founding, um so, 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:48.320 and how we are developing from that lie. It's very 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:53.720 difficult to um live truth when you've never lived truth. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.800 That's been the problem in this country. The founding fathers, 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:03.399 of course, said in the Founding Documents that they are 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.880 certain self evident truths that we hold dear, and we've 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:13.120 lived throughout our history with those self evident truths, often 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.680 referring to them that all men have created equal, They're 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.280 endowed by their creator with certain inhalenable rights that among 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.240 these life lived in the pursuit of happiness. The problem 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:29.240 is that we've spoken of these truths in theoretical terms, 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.439 in terms of ideals and spoken words, but we have 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:39.600 never lived out those truths and acted properly on those truths, 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.560 and this is what doctor King was trying to get 0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:45.439 us back to. He was trying to get us to 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.440 the point where these truths are no longer expressed in 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.119 our public discourse and our political discourse, but that they 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.960 become a part of our lives and the way we 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.640 act in the world, the way we treat each other 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:05.359 as as citizens of this country. So doctor King, I think, 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:10.320 not only an authority when we speak to these issues. 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:16.360 He's a resource. He's an inspiration, I think, because he 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.359 taught us always that truth matters, and I think we 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:22.600 had a point now where we have to reclaim that. 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.520 One of the things, one of the things that I 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:36.960 find incredibly troubling myself a former educator, is this desire 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:42.199 now to ban books, to go to go back to 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:47.680 a place where we are banning books and narrowing curriculum 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:55.560 to guard white children from the truth about their ancestors. 0:23:55.960 --> 0:24:04.120 What do you make about again, this push for disinformation 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:11.560 by shielding particularly white children from learning the truth about 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.560 this nation's finding It goes back to what I said 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.520 a little earlier in terms of this failure to come 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:21.360 to terms with certain truths about our history and our 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:26.560 heritage and you're right. There's a national campaign of eratia 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:30.639 and book banning going on now. Almost two thousand books 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:34.359 have been banned, and of course the argument is that 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:38.840 white children will be hurt psychologically in terms of their 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:44.720 own self identity and self esteem. But I think doctor 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:47.520 King was right when he quoted Jesus. It is the 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:51.919 truth that will set us free. I'd lies and I 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:55.199 think those who are involved in this national campaign of 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:59.760 eratia and book banning, they think that they can protect 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:06.080 future generations by hiding satan truths and satin facts about 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:11.640 this nation and nation and its history. But that cannot work. Again. 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:13.840 It is the truth that will set us free. And 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:18.000 I think in this society, which is a democratic society 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:25.119 claims to be rooted in representative and participatory democracy, people 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.760 should have the freedom to read what they want. Children 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:32.600 should have that kind of freedom because only then can 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:36.359 they learn the truth. Doctor King said that only truth 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:41.040 can lead to a better understanding of humanity, to a 0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:44.320 better understanding of life in the world, to a better 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.560 understanding of who we are as a people and as 0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:53.320 a nation. Has there been in your in your time 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:59.240 of study, writing and reflection, Doctor Baldwin A country that 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:06.240 has wrestled with their history in a way that has preserved, 0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:10.840 I guess, the sense of patriotism, but through the lens 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:16.600 of honesty. That has happened to some extent in Germany. 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:19.680 You we all know what happened during the World War 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.840 two era with the rise of Hitler and Nazism and 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:28.520 the slaughter of Jewish people in parts of Germany. There 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:31.359 have been attempts on the part of religious leaders and 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:35.359 others to come to terms with that ugly, uncomfortable and 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:40.840 painful side of their history and to live on a 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:45.720 high with the vision told a higher human ideal and 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:49.120 a higher ethical idea. So that has happened to some extent, 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:54.640 but in this country there's never been an effort, and 0:26:54.720 --> 0:26:58.040 I think doctor ingland right. Such an effort should be 0:26:58.119 --> 0:27:02.200 led by religious leaders, an effort to bring this nation, 0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:06.560 to bring us all to a kind of reckoning with 0:27:06.600 --> 0:27:11.520 our history and our heritage, even the ugly, uncomfortable and 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:17.560 painful side of that history and heritage. But that's been 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.080 a failure to do so. And hopefully now with the 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:25.000 recent election, we have hopeful signs that there are voices 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:31.840 emerging that will will compel us to look seriously at 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:34.600 our history, at who we are, and to come to 0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:39.760 terms with that history, and to recommit ourselves to the 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:46.280 highest ideals of this country as they relate to the 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:53.119 fulfillment of certain self evident truths. Doctor King was not 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:57.120 an old man when he was assassinated. He was actually 0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:02.200 quite young. And we love to believe in this country 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:06.280 that our battle with the civil rights movement was eons ago, 0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:12.119 when it was just close to sixty years ago, that 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:19.280 there are young people who remember Jim Crow, who remember segregation. 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:25.119 Do you think that we have put too much distance 0:28:26.160 --> 0:28:29.639 in terms of a timeline in our understanding of how 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:35.120 much or how little America has grown and reckoned with 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:39.840 its quote unquote original sin, that we like to pretend 0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:43.920 that it was so long ago, when in all honesty, 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:47.680 it really wasn't. And is that a part of also 0:28:48.920 --> 0:28:53.240 us erasing that element of truth that's true, that's right. 0:28:53.800 --> 0:29:01.160 It speaks to our tendency to forget. We believe a 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:06.200 lot of us entirely in American exceptionalism, and we've long 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:10.680 felt that if you really believe in American exceptional exceptionalism 0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:13.960 and you're patriotic, then you're going to leave the ugly 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:17.040 side and the painful side of that history aside and 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:20.880 focus on what is positive about us and about this 0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:24.200 nation and about our history. I think there's been a 0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:28.000 failure on the part of institutions in this country to 0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:31.600 keep alive that history of the Civil rights movement and 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.000 what it was about, because the Civil Rights Movement was 0:29:34.040 --> 0:29:38.080 really about forcing us to come to terms with truth 0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:43.320 about who we are. And our churches and our schools 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:48.640 and our community centers and other institutions and society have 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:53.960 failed to consistently teach that history and to stress the 0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:59.640 importance of that history. So when children and youngsters are 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.600 not learning that history of this entire nation, the history 0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:06.720 of the Civil Rights movement, then there's a tendency to forget. 0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:09.520 And I think what we are seeing today in this 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:13.880 national campaign of erasia and book pointing is to force 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:19.960 us further away from the truth about this nation, the 0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:24.800 truth about our history and heritage. So yes, I see 0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:28.560 that failure in our society today, and it's occurring at 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.320 all levels of society, among all groups in society. It 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:38.520 raises ethnic groups who are not teaching history as it 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:47.920 should be taught. Doctor Baldwin, what gives you hope in 0:30:47.960 --> 0:30:51.880 this moment of time, this reckoning that we are living 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:56.480 in in America, because it is not America's first reckoning, right, 0:30:56.880 --> 0:31:00.200 and I doubt that it will be the last. Yeah, 0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:06.120 So what what gives you hope and faith that we 0:31:06.160 --> 0:31:10.240 will at some point, maybe not in either of our lifetimes, 0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:15.840 but at some point actually realize the fullness of not 0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:22.280 only Doctor King's dream, but the founding Father's ideas of 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:27.600 a true democracy. Yes, I have hope in part because 0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:31.040 I believe deeply in what Doctor King said. He said 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:35.160 often that truth crushed to earth will rise again, that 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:40.880 truth always prevails. A lie cannot live forever, and I 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:45.240 tend to believe that myself. I also think that there 0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:48.440 are certain hope for signs that go in our society 0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:53.480 to day. One. Of course, the recent election election denies 0:31:53.560 --> 0:32:01.719