1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: Good morning, Peeve Senna, Welcome to Okay f Daily with 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody Recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: you know if you like me, yesterday, decided to do 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: anything anything else other than listen to the twice impeached 5 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: criminal ass insurrectionist, grifting motherfucker Donald Trump announced that he 6 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: is going to be running for president again for a 7 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: third time in twenty twenty four. Um, then you'll probably 8 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: need some type of update. Um. I decided to basically 9 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: stare at a wall because I found that more entertaining, 10 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: interesting and informative than listening to a grift ass lying motherfucker. 11 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: But let me say this what really has gotten me 12 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: as I woke up and read all of you know, 13 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: the headlines and seeing how the media once again is 14 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: going to fail the American people in terms of the 15 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: type of coverage that they're going to supply Donald Trump with. 16 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: You know, we shouldn't be here, right, we shouldn't even 17 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: be in this place. And why shouldn't we be here? Oh? 18 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, because we should have a Department of 19 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: Justice that is a run by a person who is 20 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: invested in creating a justice system that doesn't have multiple tracks, right, 21 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: meaning that if you happen to be wealthy, white male 22 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: and cists and a former president of the United States, 23 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 1: that you get to go track yourself on easy Street 24 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: where nothing touches you. The road is made of teflon 25 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: and all as well. It doesn't matter what crimes you've committed. 26 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter how boldly you have proclaimed those crimes. 27 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you have said out loud find 28 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: me eleven thousand, six hundred and some odd votes. It 29 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: doesn't matter that you have created companies that are basically 30 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: shell operations to scam people out of an education, out 31 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: of money, that you can do whatever the fuck you want. 32 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: We shouldn't be in this position because we should have 33 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: a Department of Justice that two years, almost two fucking 34 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: years since this motherfucker sent thousands of people to kill 35 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,839 Speaker 1: his vice president of the United States, that he let 36 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 1: armed insurrectionists into a rally and then pointed them in 37 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: the direction of the Capitol Building, that he wouldn't be 38 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: able to announce his presidency because he would be in jail, 39 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: he would have been under indictment, he would be fending 40 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: off right, not just federal investigations but he would actually 41 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: be fending off several indictments, right, so he wouldn't have 42 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: the time, the space, or the place to be able 43 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: to announce a third attempt at running for office. But 44 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: that's not where we live, right. We live in America, 45 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,119 Speaker 1: where whiteness is beyond the best currency that you could 46 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: possibly ever have, Where wealth right essentially wraps that you know, 47 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: skin in every different kind of defense, bulletproof, teflon tool 48 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: that you could possibly have, Where you can say whatever 49 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: you want, you can do whatever you want. You can 50 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: be accused of multiple cases of sexual assault, you can 51 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: be accused of grifting, you can be accused of inciting 52 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: a riot, and all of these things. And guess what, 53 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: Because you're white, and you're well healthy, and your siss 54 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: and you're famous, you get to run for president of 55 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: the United States. Not only does Donald Trump continue to 56 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: pose an absolute threat to our democracy, right, not only 57 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: do his words essentially fall on the ears of people 58 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: who are so trigger happy, right that they pose with 59 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: their ar fifteens, right, that they are so trigger happy 60 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: that they actually put up target practice with the faces 61 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: of members of Congress. That they are so trigger happy 62 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: that one of them went and broke into Speaker Pelosi's 63 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: home and violently assaulted her husband with a hammer. Donald 64 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: Trump shouldn't just be in jail. He should be under 65 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: a jail with a fucking muzzle over his mouth, because 66 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: that is what actual justice would look like in this country. That, 67 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: you know, attempting to overthrow the government, attempting to incite 68 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: an insurrection, attempting to steal an election, breaking the emolument's clause. 69 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, the list fucking goes on and on and on. 70 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: But Donald Trump is walking free. Oh I'm sorry. He 71 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: also stole a boatload of fucking documents that you know, 72 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: pinpoint nuclear intelligence and agents and all of these things 73 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: as well, but still friends close to two years to 74 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: the anniversary of the insurrection, and Donald Trump is free 75 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: to announce that he is going to run again, to 76 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: try and run again our country into the ground. Now, 77 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: what I find most interesting is this a couple of 78 00:05:50,040 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: things right, One that Donald Trump's own daughter, Ivanka Trump, 79 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: you know, the only one that he actually likes, wrote 80 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: this on her Instagram following the announcement of the twice 81 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: impeach criminal ask President her father on Instagram. This is 82 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: what she wrote, I love my father very much. This 83 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: time around, I am choosing to prioritize my young children 84 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: and the private life we are creating as a family. 85 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: I do not plan to be involved in politics. While 86 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: I will always love and support my father, going forward, 87 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: I will do so outside the political arena. I am 88 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: grateful to have had the honor of serving the American people, 89 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: and I will always be proud of many of our 90 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: administration's accomplishments. Would one of those accomplishments be putting children 91 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: in cages? Well, one of those accomplishments having had over 92 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: four hundred thousand Americans die of COVID nineteen because your 93 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: father lied about how contagious and serious the virus was 94 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: in order to stoke up fear and weaponize a virus. 95 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: Is that one of the accomplishments. Is it running the 96 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: Department of Education into the ground. Is it potentially having 97 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: tweeted us into war with Iran? Is it embracing white 98 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: supremacists so that they felt like they had a leader 99 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: in the White House? Which one of the many accomplishments 100 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: do you think that Ivanka Trump is pointing to? And 101 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: we know exactly what Ivanka Trump is doing, because she's 102 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: the brightest of the batch of idiots that are the 103 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: spawn of the Trumps, and that is creating an arm's 104 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: length of distance between herself and her twice impeached criminal 105 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: ass president father, right that she don't want to get 106 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: roped up wrapped up in this that you know. Of course, 107 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: there's no real investigation that's going on with her husband 108 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: and how he managed to score two billion dollars from 109 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: Mohammed been Alam, the Saudi Prince, following his exit from 110 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Could it have anything to do with, Oh, 111 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, the myriad of files that you know 112 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was hiding at Mara Lago. Could it have 113 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: anything to do with the access that MBS was given 114 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: to the I don't know, entirety of the United States 115 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: because he had the president and Jared Kushner in his pocket. 116 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: But there's no investigation that's really happening. They are nothing 117 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: of Nope, because again, why straight siths wealthy? You know, 118 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: you get to run shit and everybody else has to 119 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: duck and cover. I'm just so fucking tired, right, I'm 120 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: just I am. I am so tired of the media 121 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: and their lack of investigation and interrogation, their lack of 122 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: coverage that actually lays bare the facts of who Donald 123 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: Trump is. I'm so fucking tired of people twisting themselves 124 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: into knots and contorting themselves so that they don't offend 125 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: the far right, so that they don't offend Donald Trump. 126 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm so tired of the chicken shit bullshit out of 127 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: our fucking media that is supposed to be right about 128 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: informing the public. They're supposed to be a check and balance. 129 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: I'm tired of us embracing liars. I'm tired of no 130 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 1: one being held accountable for anything that they fucking do, 131 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: so long as they are white, so long as they 132 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: are straight, so long as they assist and connected to 133 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: powerful people. I'm tired of it. Merrick Garland has failed 134 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: the American people because Donald Trump should have never been 135 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: given the opportunity to announce a fucking run. It's like, 136 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: what are you doing? And then I have people that 137 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: have the audacity to tell me on this failed social 138 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: media app Twitter that, oh my god, do you want 139 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: it done faster? Do you want it done right? Bitch? 140 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: Are we swimming in molasses right now? Are you fucking dumb? 141 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: Do you know how quick black and brown boys and 142 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: men are picked up on the street and charge the 143 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: book thrown at them for the smallest fucking offenses. And 144 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: you're telling me that we have a laundry list of 145 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: offenses in criminal activity that Donald Trump has done and 146 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: ain't not one fucking indictment rollout since that motherfucker left office. 147 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: That is bullshit. It's bullshit and an absolute travesty and 148 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: a miscarriage of justice for our democracy. You want to 149 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: know why our democracy is still at risk because we 150 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: architects of the insurrection are still running around free. Because 151 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: you have Clarence Thomas who is still voting to deny 152 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: access to phone records and rightfully doing so, because nobody 153 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: has opened up in an impeachment inquiry into him and 154 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: his fucking involvement with his insurrection. As wife, I'm just 155 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: sick of the bullshit, y'all. Like it is exhausting. And 156 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: that's why I'm so grateful for my next guest and 157 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: the conversation that we have around the importance of truth 158 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and integrity and character. Doctor Lewis V. Baldwin has written 159 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: a book entitled The Arc of Truth, The Thinking of 160 00:11:49,400 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior, and in this book is what 161 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: many have said is the definitive volume on Martin Luther 162 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: King Junior's understanding of truth. And I want to read 163 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: you just a little bit about what this book is 164 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: about and why we should be reading it, particularly in 165 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: this time. Martin Luther King Junior said and wrote as 166 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: much or more about the meaning, nature, and power of 167 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: truth as did any other prominent figure in the nineteen 168 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. King was not only vastly influential as 169 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: an advocate for and defender of truth, he also did 170 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: more than anyone in his time to organize truth into 171 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: a movement for the liberation, uplift, and empowerment of humanity, 172 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: efforts that ultimately resulted in the loss of his life. 173 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: Draw on King's published and unpublished sermons, speeches, and writings, 174 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: The Arc of Truth explores his lifelong pilgrimage in pursuit 175 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: of truth. Ultimately, King's significance for humanity is not only 176 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: his contributions as a preacher, pastor, civil rights leader and 177 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: world figure. He was and remains equally impactful as a theologian, philosopher, 178 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: and atheists whose life and thought evince and enduring search 179 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: for and commitment to truth. I can think of no 180 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: better time to have a conversation about inevitable truths, about 181 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: the truth of who this nation is, the truth of 182 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: the dream that America is and was supposed to offer 183 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: to all of its inhabitants, and how doctor Martin Luther 184 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: King's dream for humanity cannot be realized when there are 185 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: alternate realities that people are existing in. So the conversation 186 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: that I have with doctor Baldwin today is about the 187 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: threat that our democracy is under because of disinformation, misinformation 188 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: and flat out lies that have taken hold in the 189 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: hearts and minds of tens of millions because of Donald 190 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: Trump and Trumpism. Can we get back to a place 191 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: of shared truth. That's a question that I asked doctor Baldwin. Next, folks, 192 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome to woke f Daily 193 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: for the very first time doctor Lewis Baldwin, scholar and 194 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: author of the book The Arc of Truth, The Thinking 195 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: of Martin Luther King Junior. Doctor Baldwin, we are living 196 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: in a really perilous time in this country in terms 197 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: of our relationship to the truth. Yes, can you talk 198 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: about why you think that we are in this crisis 199 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: and how the lessons the lessons that we can learn 200 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: from doctor Martin Luther King, Junior and his relationship to 201 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: the truth. Yes, I think there's always a mental problem 202 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: in this country with us coming to terms with truth. Certainly, 203 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: I'll use an example, I'll fail you to come to 204 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: terms with the sad, painful and uncomfortable truths about our history, 205 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: particularly as that relates to the treatment of people's of color, 206 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: communities of color. And there's always Doctor King understood this 207 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: that our entire during our entire history, we've had a 208 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: problem coming to terms with truth. And I think what 209 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: we see today as a product of that in political circles. 210 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: Because actual facts, objective truths, scientific facts no longer figure 211 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: significantly in public discourse and certainly not in political discourse. 212 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: Scholars are writing today about the post truth age, an 213 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: age in which there is a breakdown of the old 214 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: standards and true additions as they relate to truth and 215 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: truth telling. And doctor King grew up in a family 216 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: in which truth was considered a supreme value, and throughout 217 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: his public life he told us repeatedly that the struggle 218 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: involved essentially coming to terms without truth about ourselves, living 219 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: up to our self evident truths as expressed in our 220 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: founding documents. So he taught us a lot about the 221 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: power of truth and truth telling. And he also taught 222 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: us a lot about the moral obligation to speak truth 223 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: to power. And that's why I think doctor King is 224 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: relevant in these times when truth and facts seem to 225 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: no longer matter. You know, at the beginning, I would 226 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: say of the Trump presidency, America was introduced to a 227 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: term called alternative facts. By at that time, Kelly Ann 228 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,719 Speaker 1: Conway said, do you have facts, and you have alternative facts? 229 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: And in the media, in the media, folks laughed, right, 230 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: and they and they they thought that that was funny. 231 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: That would be a very crucial moment I think for 232 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: our political consciousness and our understanding of what should be 233 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: expected from our political leaders. How do you think that 234 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: the media and I would say political scholars in general, 235 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: kind of failed in that moment. Something that was presented 236 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: as serious they laughed off. What should we have done instead? 237 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: I think there should have been a response from religious leaders, 238 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: from where I'm meaning politicians, and from the general public. 239 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: Because when the term alternative facts was used, it was 240 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: obvious at that time that the direction that we're trending 241 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: in of course was not good that we were moving 242 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: further and further away from a truth telling culture and 243 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: to a point where we no longer lived in the 244 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: same reality. And I think that is the problem today. 245 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: So many of us live in different realities, and it's 246 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: hard to get people to a point of reality when 247 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: they're not living in the same reality. And I think 248 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: we've allowed conspiracy theories, lies, disinformation from the highest levels 249 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: of our political life to shape public discourse in this country. 250 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, we have hood much from religious leaders in 251 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: terms of will pushback. We haven't heard much from politicians 252 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: who who have moral sensibility. They have not done much 253 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: in terms of pushback. And of course, unfortunately, those of 254 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: us in the public square have not only celebrated figures 255 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: who engage in anti truth telling and conspiracy theories, we 256 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: have rewarded them in so many instants, and that I 257 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 1: think is problematic. How do you see the disinformation that 258 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: doctor King was wrestling with in the nineteen fifties and 259 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: sixties and the disinformation that we are wrestling with now. 260 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: Because Doctor King was called everything outside of his name 261 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: right by white supremacist, racist leaders. He was called a liar, 262 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: he was called an extremist. He was called all of 263 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: these things. And yet it was during a time when 264 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: we had three major news stations that we all watched, 265 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: we had the same radio programs that we all watched, 266 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: now decades later, that misinformation and disinformation is pervasive, and 267 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: how how do you how do you see how we 268 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: how we deal with it? Because America, in a lot 269 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: of ways, um if I'm not mistaken, has been based 270 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: on a lot of lies about our founding, um so, 271 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: and how we are developing from that lie. It's very 272 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: difficult to um live truth when you've never lived truth. 273 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: That's been the problem in this country. The founding fathers, 274 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: of course, said in the Founding Documents that they are 275 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: certain self evident truths that we hold dear, and we've 276 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: lived throughout our history with those self evident truths, often 277 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: referring to them that all men have created equal, They're 278 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: endowed by their creator with certain inhalenable rights that among 279 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: these life lived in the pursuit of happiness. The problem 280 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: is that we've spoken of these truths in theoretical terms, 281 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: in terms of ideals and spoken words, but we have 282 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: never lived out those truths and acted properly on those truths, 283 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: and this is what doctor King was trying to get 284 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: us back to. He was trying to get us to 285 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: the point where these truths are no longer expressed in 286 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: our public discourse and our political discourse, but that they 287 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: become a part of our lives and the way we 288 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 1: act in the world, the way we treat each other 289 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: as as citizens of this country. So doctor King, I think, 290 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: not only an authority when we speak to these issues. 291 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: He's a resource. He's an inspiration, I think, because he 292 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: taught us always that truth matters, and I think we 293 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: had a point now where we have to reclaim that. 294 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: One of the things, one of the things that I 295 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: find incredibly troubling myself a former educator, is this desire 296 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 1: now to ban books, to go to go back to 297 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: a place where we are banning books and narrowing curriculum 298 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: to guard white children from the truth about their ancestors. 299 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: What do you make about again, this push for disinformation 300 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: by shielding particularly white children from learning the truth about 301 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: this nation's finding It goes back to what I said 302 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: a little earlier in terms of this failure to come 303 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: to terms with certain truths about our history and our 304 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: heritage and you're right. There's a national campaign of eratia 305 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: and book banning going on now. Almost two thousand books 306 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: have been banned, and of course the argument is that 307 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: white children will be hurt psychologically in terms of their 308 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: own self identity and self esteem. But I think doctor 309 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: King was right when he quoted Jesus. It is the 310 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: truth that will set us free. I'd lies and I 311 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: think those who are involved in this national campaign of 312 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: eratia and book banning, they think that they can protect 313 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: future generations by hiding satan truths and satin facts about 314 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: this nation and nation and its history. But that cannot work. Again. 315 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: It is the truth that will set us free. And 316 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: I think in this society, which is a democratic society 317 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: claims to be rooted in representative and participatory democracy, people 318 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: should have the freedom to read what they want. Children 319 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: should have that kind of freedom because only then can 320 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: they learn the truth. Doctor King said that only truth 321 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: can lead to a better understanding of humanity, to a 322 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: better understanding of life in the world, to a better 323 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: understanding of who we are as a people and as 324 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: a nation. Has there been in your in your time 325 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: of study, writing and reflection, Doctor Baldwin A country that 326 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: has wrestled with their history in a way that has preserved, 327 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: I guess, the sense of patriotism, but through the lens 328 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: of honesty. That has happened to some extent in Germany. 329 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: You we all know what happened during the World War 330 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: two era with the rise of Hitler and Nazism and 331 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: the slaughter of Jewish people in parts of Germany. There 332 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: have been attempts on the part of religious leaders and 333 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: others to come to terms with that ugly, uncomfortable and 334 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: painful side of their history and to live on a 335 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: high with the vision told a higher human ideal and 336 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: a higher ethical idea. So that has happened to some extent, 337 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: but in this country there's never been an effort, and 338 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: I think doctor ingland right. Such an effort should be 339 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: led by religious leaders, an effort to bring this nation, 340 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: to bring us all to a kind of reckoning with 341 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: our history and our heritage, even the ugly, uncomfortable and 342 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: painful side of that history and heritage. But that's been 343 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: a failure to do so. And hopefully now with the 344 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: recent election, we have hopeful signs that there are voices 345 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: emerging that will will compel us to look seriously at 346 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: our history, at who we are, and to come to 347 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: terms with that history, and to recommit ourselves to the 348 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: highest ideals of this country as they relate to the 349 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: fulfillment of certain self evident truths. Doctor King was not 350 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: an old man when he was assassinated. He was actually 351 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: quite young. And we love to believe in this country 352 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: that our battle with the civil rights movement was eons ago, 353 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: when it was just close to sixty years ago, that 354 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: there are young people who remember Jim Crow, who remember segregation. 355 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: Do you think that we have put too much distance 356 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: in terms of a timeline in our understanding of how 357 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: much or how little America has grown and reckoned with 358 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: its quote unquote original sin, that we like to pretend 359 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: that it was so long ago, when in all honesty, 360 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: it really wasn't. And is that a part of also 361 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: us erasing that element of truth that's true, that's right. 362 00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: It speaks to our tendency to forget. We believe a 363 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: lot of us entirely in American exceptionalism, and we've long 364 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: felt that if you really believe in American exceptional exceptionalism 365 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: and you're patriotic, then you're going to leave the ugly 366 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: side and the painful side of that history aside and 367 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: focus on what is positive about us and about this 368 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: nation and about our history. I think there's been a 369 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: failure on the part of institutions in this country to 370 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: keep alive that history of the Civil rights movement and 371 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: what it was about, because the Civil Rights Movement was 372 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: really about forcing us to come to terms with truth 373 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: about who we are. And our churches and our schools 374 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: and our community centers and other institutions and society have 375 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: failed to consistently teach that history and to stress the 376 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: importance of that history. So when children and youngsters are 377 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: not learning that history of this entire nation, the history 378 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: of the Civil Rights movement, then there's a tendency to forget. 379 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: And I think what we are seeing today in this 380 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: national campaign of erasia and book pointing is to force 381 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: us further away from the truth about this nation, the 382 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: truth about our history and heritage. So yes, I see 383 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: that failure in our society today, and it's occurring at 384 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: all levels of society, among all groups in society. It 385 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: raises ethnic groups who are not teaching history as it 386 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: should be taught. Doctor Baldwin, what gives you hope in 387 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: this moment of time, this reckoning that we are living 388 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: in in America, because it is not America's first reckoning, right, 389 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: and I doubt that it will be the last. Yeah, 390 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: So what what gives you hope and faith that we 391 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: will at some point, maybe not in either of our lifetimes, 392 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: but at some point actually realize the fullness of not 393 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: only Doctor King's dream, but the founding Father's ideas of 394 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: a true democracy. Yes, I have hope in part because 395 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: I believe deeply in what Doctor King said. He said 396 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: often that truth crushed to earth will rise again, that 397 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: truth always prevails. A lie cannot live forever, and I 398 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: tend to believe that myself. I also think that there 399 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: are certain hope for signs that go in our society 400 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: to day. One. Of course, the recent election election denies 401 00:31:53,560 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 1: us lost large margin. The ers of this country rejected 402 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: the big lie, a lot of lies about the election, 403 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: about the voter suppression. Those lies were rejected, The conspiracy 404 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: theories all rejected in our most recent midterm elections. That too, 405 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: gives me hope. I think that most Americans are beginning 406 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: to realize that we cannot continue to live in an 407 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: anti truth telling culture, that we need to reclaim truth 408 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: as a supreme value. Not only reclaim truth, we need 409 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: to elevate and cherish truth and also demand truth. Otherwise 410 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 1: we cannot continue to sustain ourselves on a basis on 411 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: the basis of a firm foundational, moral, and spiritual values. 412 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: I think we're beginning to realize that, and of course 413 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: that gives me hope as well. And the last question 414 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: for you, what are you hoping that folks take from 415 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: from your book The Ark of Truth? What are you 416 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: hoping that that readers who have heard have been taught 417 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: about Doctor King take from it during this time in particular, 418 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: I would say first of all, that the search for 419 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: truth is a lifelong quest. I think we all need 420 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: to realize that we have to if we're moral and 421 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: rational beings, we engage in truth as a lifelong pursuit. 422 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: And this was true about Doctor King. And I think 423 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: the second thing I would say is that we need 424 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: to learn from doctor King that truth is not simply 425 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: about the study of ideals or spoken words. It's also 426 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: about how we live and act in the world. Doctor 427 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: King talked a lot about using truth for means, the 428 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 1: truth for means of nonviolent direct action to achieve the 429 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: truth for ends of the beloved community, and we need 430 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: to always understand that truth is important in terms of 431 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: getting at truth, that we have to live it, we 432 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: have to act on it in order to bring about 433 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: a better society. Doctor Baldwin, I thank you so much 434 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: for making the time to join us on wok app, 435 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: but also for your leadership and your writing. Folks. The 436 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: title of the book is The Arc of Truth, the 437 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: Thinking of Martin Luther King Junior. Doctor Baldwin, thank you 438 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: so much for your Thank you so much. You raise 439 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: great questions. Thank you, thank you. That is it for 440 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: me today, dear friends on woka app. As always, power 441 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: to the people and to all the people. Power, get 442 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: woke and stay woke as fuck.