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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, we welcome to the podcast

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Speaker 1: on editor Candu Skips and Joy to Day by staff

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Speaker 1: writer Josh Clark. It's always go well, so, Candice. I

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Speaker 1: was eating a box of delicious Godiva chocolates the other day,

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Speaker 1: my favorite. I ate the whole box by myself, and

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Speaker 1: as I was sitting there afterwards, with my face covered

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Speaker 1: in chocolate, I was looking at the at the top

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Speaker 1: of it, and they're in the flesh is Lady Godiva, um,

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Speaker 1: who apparently rode naked on horseback for some reason, um

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Speaker 1: some time ago, and I started wondering, you know, is

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Speaker 1: is that fact or fiction? Did Lady Godiva really ride

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Speaker 1: that horse naked? Well? That's actually please, I can't do

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Speaker 1: this anymore. I'm are you reacting to the chocolate? No, no, Cannis,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. Um. I'm just gonna level with you, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't live this lie any longer. I

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Speaker 1: know exactly whether or not Lady could Diva really rode

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Speaker 1: the horse? Okay, Like I you wrote this article, I

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Speaker 1: read it last night. I got to the end. I

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Speaker 1: know exactly what you're going to say. I know whether

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Speaker 1: it's fact, I know whether it's fiction. And I can't

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Speaker 1: do this anymore. It's too much of a strain to

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Speaker 1: pretend like I don't know. Okay, I'm sorry. I guess

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Speaker 1: I just ruined the podcast, is it? So? No? No, No,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to It doesn't have to be like

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Speaker 1: that between us. Okay, if you know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: and I know the answer, why don't we just talk

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Speaker 1: about it? Can we do that? I think so we

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Speaker 1: can do that? Okay, alright, because I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of the other articles that we've talked about. I

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Speaker 1: even wrote. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I I now,

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Speaker 1: and I've known all along that you've known all along.

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Speaker 1: It's it's true. I was just trying to humor you.

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Speaker 1: I thought everybody would, you know, I want to play

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Speaker 1: like that, But let's play fair. Thanks by the rules.

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Speaker 1: We're very smart people. Maybe I'm a little bit smarter,

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Speaker 1: but you're cuddlier. So let's have that. All right. Well, cool,

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Speaker 1: let's try this alright. Back at square one. She's on

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Speaker 1: the chocolate box. She is she is? And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a reason that the guy who founded Good

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Speaker 1: Diva Chocolates gave and it had to do with them

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Speaker 1: her passion and lack of modesty, and that he thought

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Speaker 1: she was hot or something like that. Yeah, he thought

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Speaker 1: she had a lot of style. And you know, it's funny.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a little bit of research about Godive

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Speaker 1: and I found out that, um, people didn't actually start,

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Speaker 1: or women rather, didn't start riding side saddle on horses

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Speaker 1: until many centuries after Godiva. So it doesn't seem particularly

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Speaker 1: stylist to straddle a horse naked and ride through town. No,

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Speaker 1: I imagined that would leave very little to the imagine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but There's chocolates are delicious, the best. They are good.

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Speaker 1: They are good. And while I'm confessing, I had to

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Speaker 1: say I had no idea. She even rode side saddle

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Speaker 1: on the good Dive logo, So it's the only classy

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Speaker 1: thing to do. So well, let's back it up. Good,

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Speaker 1: did she or did she not take the naked horse ride?

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Speaker 1: I know the answer to this, Well, have at it.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what is that she did not? It would um?

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Speaker 1: I mean, because of the historical distortions, I imagine you

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Speaker 1: would call it faction. But really, ultimately, if you want

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Speaker 1: to get down to brass tacks, it doesn't appear that

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Speaker 1: she did right, So Goodiva, and I apologize to all

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Speaker 1: of the Welsh scholars out there who are going to

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Speaker 1: read me for probably mispronouncing her name was actually God

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Speaker 1: gafew No, no, you have to say it like you

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Speaker 1: have been around the office. I like to say God

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Speaker 1: gafe you and God give. That was another name for her. Um.

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Speaker 1: Josh has been making fun of me all morning because

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Speaker 1: you go, you say God, and you do this little

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Speaker 1: dip down and then up, and then you look very

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Speaker 1: pleased with yourself. I know I look sort of like

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Speaker 1: an animal when I do it. I really can't help it,

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Speaker 1: um anyway, So God Gafeu is her name. Eleventh century

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Speaker 1: woman uh and Anglo Saxon. I guess England is what

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Speaker 1: we would call it today. And she wasn't technically a

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Speaker 1: lady because back then that was a title reserve for

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Speaker 1: the queens, so she could have been a countess. She

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Speaker 1: married a count essentially or an earl. Yeah, Leah Frick

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Speaker 1: isn't that great name? My firstborn son Leo really happy do?

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Speaker 1: And she also could have been called in that time period,

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Speaker 1: would have been appropriate to say that she was Lea

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Speaker 1: Fric's bed partner, and that also translates into some sort

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Speaker 1: of Welsh business. Yeah yeah, so really how that it

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Speaker 1: when you read the article? So he was pretty wealthy.

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Speaker 1: Leo Frick essentially owned Mercia, which was this kingdom in

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Speaker 1: the center of modern day England, and it was right

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Speaker 1: across from Wales. And he was pretty powerful, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just this very localized power. It extended around

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Speaker 1: the country. He's a big deal. He was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: And she was a pretty big deal too. She came

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Speaker 1: from a really wealthy family and so when she came

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Speaker 1: into the marriage, you know, with her property and her

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Speaker 1: money and his property and his money. I mean, wow,

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Speaker 1: didn'tn't wasn't she ruling her own? Didn't she own like

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Speaker 1: eight different places she did? Kingdoms or something? She certainly did,

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Speaker 1: one of which was Coventry, which is yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: the side where she supposedly took this naked horse ride,

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Speaker 1: which we know did not happen. So back in eleventh

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Speaker 1: century England, women were pretty important in the home and

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Speaker 1: one of their responsibilities was managing their wealth and the

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Speaker 1: family's wealth and dolling out money to different you know, beneficiaries,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things that lady Godiva chose to

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Speaker 1: give a lot of money to was the abbey and

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Speaker 1: their domain, and there was a Benedictine abbey in Coventry,

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Speaker 1: and she supposedly gave a ton of money and gold

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Speaker 1: and jewels, and she just gave it all and she

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Speaker 1: was recognized as a really, really pious and religious woman.

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Speaker 1: Which is funny because today when we hear lady could

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Speaker 1: die by we think of a very like sexually charged symbol,

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Speaker 1: which I think is, you know how dive a talcolates

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Speaker 1: at least, but want us to think of her. They

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Speaker 1: want us to think of sensuality and you know, decadence.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't like that at all. So the story

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Speaker 1: of the horse ride do you want to take it? Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess I just wanted to throw in that from

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Speaker 1: what I read in the article, she seems, like you said,

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Speaker 1: very pious, but she also seems to have a sense

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Speaker 1: of daring and definitely a sense of humor because you

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Speaker 1: know why was she challenged to ride naked? Well that's

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Speaker 1: because her husband had supposedly imposed a really heavy tax

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Speaker 1: on the citizens of Coventry, and by this legend, she

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Speaker 1: went to him and said, I really want you to

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Speaker 1: lift this tax. And he responded, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: You take off all your clothes and ride through the

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Speaker 1: center of town in the middle of the day on horseback,

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Speaker 1: and when you get back, I'll lift the tax. And

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Speaker 1: she was game. She was game. She said, are you sure?

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Speaker 1: Just to make sure he serious, and and he must

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Speaker 1: have thought that she wouldn't take him seriously, but she did.

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Speaker 1: I think she sort of went straight upstairs, des robed,

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Speaker 1: let down her hair, covered up all of her lady bits,

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Speaker 1: and gone on that horse and road. Yeah, not sid

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Speaker 1: not side, although supposedly uh in in later retellings of

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Speaker 1: the story, she um, well, the earl decreed that no

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Speaker 1: one could look, so she was going to just ride

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Speaker 1: through town no one could see except for again in

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Speaker 1: Peeping Tom, Keeping Tom and today, peeping Tom is an

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Speaker 1: expression or a turn of phrase that we use somewhat colloquially.

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Speaker 1: And I think most people would know what a peeping

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Speaker 1: tom was, you know, I would. I would go so

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Speaker 1: far as to say everybody, yeah, for sure. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think everybody knows necessarily that lady could dive on

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Speaker 1: peeping Tom or in her connected I had no idea

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Speaker 1: until I read this article actually, and so in the

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Speaker 1: first versions of The Lady Could Dive to Tail, Peeping

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Speaker 1: Tom didn't play a role. People were supposedly so thankful

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Speaker 1: and respectful of God give You that they, you know,

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Speaker 1: decided they wouldn't look at her. It was an act

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Speaker 1: of respect and homage to her for what she was

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Speaker 1: doing for them, And that was in Roger Windover's version.

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Speaker 1: That's another thing that kind of makes the diva legend

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Speaker 1: um a little unbelievable is that she doesn't appear in

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Speaker 1: in any history until about two years after death, precisely.

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Speaker 1: So he wrote that entry in ten fifty seven, I

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Speaker 1: think it was, and then later on there was another

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Speaker 1: guy who sort of took up the mantle and he

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Speaker 1: wrote the version that included Peeping Tom. And what's fishy

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Speaker 1: about this is that he cites the source named Galfreed,

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Speaker 1: and no one's really sure who that was. Was it

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Speaker 1: some sort of Jeffrey of that time period maybe, or

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Speaker 1: God Free of that time maybe? Yeah, they don't really know.

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Speaker 1: They don't really know. But his story included Peeping Tom,

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Speaker 1: and that was just a little bit more fun to recount. Really,

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Speaker 1: the fact that this beautiful woman writes naked through town

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Speaker 1: and there's this one I out of a whole ton

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Speaker 1: of people who cannot resist looking at her, but the

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Speaker 1: joke was on him a little bit. Yeah, um, I

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Speaker 1: found this a little disheartening. The one guy who looked

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Speaker 1: was struck either dead or blind by God, depending on

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Speaker 1: who tells the story. And I'm thinking it's a little harsh.

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Speaker 1: You know, every conception I have a lady could dive

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Speaker 1: it was that she was smoking hot. And I really

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Speaker 1: don't think that you should be struck blind for that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, especially in this, in this piece of

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Speaker 1: art that you've included in the article. He's like up

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Speaker 1: in a balcony. It's not like he's right up on

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Speaker 1: r or anything like that. He's not about to jump

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Speaker 1: down onto the horse with her. He's just looking. Do

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Speaker 1: you have to get struck blind for that? You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean being Catholic, I understand I feel kind of

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Speaker 1: guilty for even thinking this, but it still seems a

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Speaker 1: little extreme to me. Well extreme or not, that's just

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Speaker 1: how it went. And actually the tension between the idea

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Speaker 1: of those scope of philiac someone who gets pleasure and

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Speaker 1: looking at things. I love that word. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's kind of fun. I actually didn't know the word

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Speaker 1: until I started researching this article. I thought maybe, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's pretty similar to being a voider, so

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Speaker 1: I knew it. That meant so sort of an a

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Speaker 1: mine is for me really in my voguad lesson of

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Speaker 1: the day, um and the person on display. So the

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Speaker 1: exhibitionists from this scapophiliac. When Sigmund Freud was later proposing

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Speaker 1: theories about sexual tensions and this sort of um odd

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Speaker 1: dichotomy between the looked at and the looker, or the

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Speaker 1: gazer and the gazed upon in our society, this was

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Speaker 1: a perfect example for him to use. But um, you

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Speaker 1: know it's funny because the peeping tom legend continued later on,

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Speaker 1: even in later centuries in England, when Coventry would have

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Speaker 1: a good dive at procession and people would actually parade

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Speaker 1: through town dressed up like a diva. And one of

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Speaker 1: the first processions, the guy tapped to play peeping tom

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Speaker 1: in the procession actually died and I don't remember how,

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Speaker 1: but he died, and everyone thought, okay, signed from God,

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Speaker 1: no more being toms. However, and these processions and these

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Speaker 1: processions continue today, don't they do it? Annually they do,

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Speaker 1: they do, yeah, And usually it's it's a woman, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's a man. At least a long time ago, it

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Speaker 1: was like a young guy, sort of like in Shakespeare's

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Speaker 1: day when the boys play the female parts too. And

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Speaker 1: it used to it used to be that she would

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Speaker 1: wear a flesh colored body stocking and a wig. But

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Speaker 1: you know, in today's day and age, who knows, maybe

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Speaker 1: there's someone out there really straddling that horse. So let's

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Speaker 1: tear this legend apart, all right. First of all, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't first appear until two hundred years after it supposedly happened.

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Speaker 1: Right right there, there's exhibit A. Um, you know what

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Speaker 1: else is wrong with it? Well, there's the fact that

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Speaker 1: Godiva actually owned Coventry, So if she'd wanted taxes lowered,

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't have asked lia Frick. It would have been

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Speaker 1: her call because it was her land. And the other

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Speaker 1: problem is that it wasn't a big enough town to

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Speaker 1: merit a system of taxation. It was actually just a

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Speaker 1: very small farm province, so there wouldn't have been taxes

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Speaker 1: at this time. And you say in the article that

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Speaker 1: it's like the twelfth or thirteenth century before taxation takes

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Speaker 1: place in that area precisely, so that's pretty good evidence

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Speaker 1: against the ride. She would have had no reason to

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Speaker 1: do it exactly, so there really wasn't a ride. And

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Speaker 1: historians have been looking back at a dive and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out why it is that we remember her

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Speaker 1: this way, And it's probably that the monks at the

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Speaker 1: abbey that she um patronized so generously wanted to honor

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Speaker 1: her in some way, and why they came up with

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Speaker 1: this story, I'm not sure. I'm sure they did not

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Speaker 1: imagine in their heart of hearts that centuries later she

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Speaker 1: would become such a sexualized object. You know. They wanted

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Speaker 1: her to be remembered as a very pious and religious woman.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, it sounds like the addition of a patriarchal

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Speaker 1: society later on kind of adding to it and distorting it.

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Speaker 1: And it also makes you wonder, like, where where would

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Speaker 1: this come from? Why would this one woman be tapped

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Speaker 1: to play this this role, to have taken this legendary

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Speaker 1: ride if she didn't actually do it, if there wasn't

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Speaker 1: some kernel of truth to it, So it doesn't it

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Speaker 1: kind of make you think like there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: grain of truth, like maybe she really did do it,

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Speaker 1: but maybe she was drunk, maybe it was just a dare.

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Speaker 1: And then all these other aspects get added to the

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Speaker 1: story later on and on and all, and they all

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Speaker 1: reflect the values of whatever society adds to it. I

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Speaker 1: I agree with that. And it really took off during

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Speaker 1: the Victorian era. And I'm such a Victorian nerd when

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Speaker 1: it comes down to it. So all spare yall a

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Speaker 1: dissertation on this. But when the version of the story

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Speaker 1: but the Peeping Tom, came out, there were all these

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Speaker 1: ballads and poems written about it, and it really took off.

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Speaker 1: And the Victorian era was one of severe oppression. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was no Son's really of sexuality, at least you know,

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Speaker 1: for public eyes. And this was also a time when

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Speaker 1: people were finally able to start affording housing. And it

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Speaker 1: used to be that, you know, people who didn't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, maybe they would live in quarters

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Speaker 1: together and there weren't separate rooms, and everything was on display,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of modesty. Yeah. Then suddenly there was

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Speaker 1: room and so people started, you know, taking care of

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Speaker 1: not showing themselves and not putting themselves on display. And

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Speaker 1: so the legend was sort of appropriated in this tone.

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Speaker 1: Will look what happens when you do put yourself on display?

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Speaker 1: Is there a reason for it? Is you know they're

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Speaker 1: justice for looking upon someone who doesn't want to be

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Speaker 1: gazed at. No, No, you go blinder structed by guy exactly,

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Speaker 1: which is why this year for Halloween, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: is God give you not get dive and I'll explain

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Speaker 1: to everyone who cares to listen. And people, you know,

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Speaker 1: try to undress me with their eyes, well, well strike

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Speaker 1: you blind. Normally here I would say thanks for clearing

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Speaker 1: that up, but I'm never going to say that again.

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Speaker 1: You don't, and if you do, I'm going I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: What am I gonna do? I'll strike you blind like

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Speaker 1: peeping down and with the pen. And by the same token,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give up saying hold the phone, which

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Speaker 1: is something I want to do quite frequently. What are

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Speaker 1: you gonna do? If I say it? I will strike

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Speaker 1: your new jeck, wrestle, tear your jupiter blind own to yeah,

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Speaker 1: you really say, oh gosh, it really would say I

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Speaker 1: will do my utmost hardest time post to not say

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Speaker 1: hold the bump, Oh gosh, what's do? But if you're listening,

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Speaker 1: cover your eyes with your pods, and for the rest

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Speaker 1: of y'all, if you want to learn more about God

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Speaker 1: give you. You can read Why a Lady could dive

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Speaker 1: and take a naked horse stride on how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com dot com for more on this and thousands

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Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Let us know what you think. Send an email to

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Speaker 1: podcast at how stuff works dot com.