WEBVTT - Episode 3: Welcome to the Garden State 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:20.476 --> 0:00:22.636 It's always sort of dumb to pick a single moment 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:25.796 when everything changed, But there actually was a moment when 0:00:25.796 --> 0:00:29.916 the American sports fan changed. It came in nineteen seventy nine, 0:00:30.836 --> 0:00:34.356 before the start of the baseball season, a writer named 0:00:34.436 --> 0:00:36.596 Dan Oakrin taught a bunch of friends a weird new 0:00:36.596 --> 0:00:40.756 game he'd invented. Dan's game worked like this. The players 0:00:40.756 --> 0:00:43.276 each picked their own baseball team from the entire pool 0:00:43.316 --> 0:00:47.796 of real life current baseball players. Your imaginary team gets 0:00:47.836 --> 0:00:50.996 credit for whatever those baseball players do in future real 0:00:51.036 --> 0:00:54.636 life baseball games. You win by being the best at 0:00:54.636 --> 0:00:58.996 predicting what individual baseball players will do. This kind of 0:00:58.996 --> 0:01:04.036 game eventually got called fantasy baseball. Fantasy play spread to 0:01:04.076 --> 0:01:07.636 other sports. People sometimes bet money on their fantasy teams. 0:01:08.076 --> 0:01:11.076 They might pay a fee, are a fantasy tournament, and 0:01:11.116 --> 0:01:14.116 the winner gets to keep the pot. But the money 0:01:14.156 --> 0:01:17.476 isn't really the point. The point is to spend all 0:01:17.516 --> 0:01:22.316 baseball season with your friends and your fantasy teams. But 0:01:22.356 --> 0:01:25.156 then in two thousand and nine, this company in Scotland 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:28.836 gets created by some techies who aren't even interested in 0:01:28.876 --> 0:01:34.356 sports fan duel. It's called These techies think they might 0:01:34.356 --> 0:01:37.236 find a way to make money off fantasy sports by 0:01:37.276 --> 0:01:41.076 speeding it up by making it a daily competition. Instead 0:01:41.076 --> 0:01:42.956 of waiting all season to see who won your league, 0:01:43.516 --> 0:01:45.756 you pick your teams for a single day of games. 0:01:46.476 --> 0:01:49.476 Instead of one contest per baseball season, you have one 0:01:49.556 --> 0:01:50.876 hundred and sixty two. 0:01:51.596 --> 0:01:55.036 What they found very early on as they tested their products, 0:01:55.236 --> 0:01:58.116 they showed kind of an early version of daily fantasy 0:01:58.156 --> 0:01:59.436 sports to users. 0:02:00.236 --> 0:02:03.956 This is Albert Chen, sports writer, author of a book 0:02:03.996 --> 0:02:08.396 about all this called Billion Dollar Fantasy, And. 0:02:08.396 --> 0:02:11.356 They showed it to a guy and sort of like 0:02:11.436 --> 0:02:14.636 this focus career have been. He's like, yeah, this looks like, 0:02:15.036 --> 0:02:18.956 you know, sure, a daily version of fantasy sports that 0:02:19.076 --> 0:02:23.076 my thirteen year old would play. And then they were like, well, 0:02:23.236 --> 0:02:25.396 what if you can actually win some money off of this? 0:02:26.396 --> 0:02:31.036 And he was suddenly very interested in that. It's the 0:02:31.156 --> 0:02:31.996 money aspect. 0:02:33.796 --> 0:02:37.876 By twenty twelve, millions of Americans are playing fantasy sports. 0:02:38.676 --> 0:02:42.556 Some guys in Boston create a second company called DraftKings 0:02:42.876 --> 0:02:46.836 to compete with fan duel. Venture capitalists throw money at them. 0:02:47.476 --> 0:02:51.596 Before the twenty fifteen NFL season, these two companies are 0:02:51.636 --> 0:02:54.636 outspending the entire beer industry on TV ads. 0:02:55.316 --> 0:02:59.396 I'm seeing these commercials that are appearing, and I would 0:02:59.436 --> 0:03:03.476 later learn at a rate of every ninety seconds. And 0:03:03.836 --> 0:03:08.036 it was just an avalanche of ads that were frankly terrible. 0:03:09.596 --> 0:03:13.356 You know, ads that look like they were three AM 0:03:14.116 --> 0:03:15.996 infomercial hair Club for men. 0:03:16.156 --> 0:03:17.516 Ads. There were testimonials. 0:03:17.956 --> 0:03:20.396 Best of all, you could win a shipload of money. 0:03:20.516 --> 0:03:22.676 Use promo code kick to play and get free entry 0:03:22.716 --> 0:03:26.436 into the Millionaire Grand Final, be crowned to Fantasy Football Millionaire, 0:03:26.476 --> 0:03:30.636 Get to DraftKings dot com. 0:03:30.676 --> 0:03:34.316 What these companies do is different from old fashioned fantasy sports. 0:03:35.036 --> 0:03:38.916 Their games are fast, they're played not by friends in person, 0:03:39.436 --> 0:03:43.196 but by strangers online, and they involved serious money. 0:03:43.676 --> 0:03:50.996 These ads were about people who were making ten thousand dollars, 0:03:50.996 --> 0:03:55.476 fifteen thousand dollars, a million dollars and just like a 0:03:55.516 --> 0:03:58.956 lottery ticket, winning just an insane amount of money. So 0:03:59.076 --> 0:04:00.596 that caught my eye. 0:04:00.756 --> 0:04:03.156 That caught a lot of eyes, and not always the 0:04:03.196 --> 0:04:04.876 eyes the companies wanted to catch. 0:04:05.796 --> 0:04:09.036 They caught the eye of the law. People were one, 0:04:10.276 --> 0:04:12.836 how is this? First of all, how is this on 0:04:12.876 --> 0:04:18.316 my TV screens? Because sports gambling is illegal and this 0:04:18.476 --> 0:04:20.756 sure smells like sports gambling, right. 0:04:29.716 --> 0:04:34.076 I'm Michael Lewis and this is against the rules. This season, 0:04:34.076 --> 0:04:37.916 we're exploring the role of fans in American life. We've 0:04:37.956 --> 0:04:39.836 come to the point where the sports fan is about 0:04:39.836 --> 0:04:43.556 to take the field against American law. You can probably 0:04:43.556 --> 0:04:46.236 guess who's going to win, but no one has ever 0:04:46.276 --> 0:04:49.116 really told the story of how the game was played. 0:04:57.396 --> 0:05:01.196 A number of lawmakers start wondering, well, this feels like gambling. 0:05:02.116 --> 0:05:05.196 That's Jeremy Coudon, partner in a New York firm called 0:05:05.396 --> 0:05:09.036 URIC that lobbies state legislature, is on behalf of various clients, 0:05:09.836 --> 0:05:13.356 including back in twenty fifteen, fantasy sports companies. 0:05:14.116 --> 0:05:19.596 You're basically putting money down on something that involves an athlete, 0:05:19.796 --> 0:05:22.756 and you're getting paid back something if you win. That 0:05:23.156 --> 0:05:25.396 to us sounds like sports betting. So a number of 0:05:25.436 --> 0:05:29.996 state attorneys general issued opinions that these contests had to 0:05:30.036 --> 0:05:31.236 cease and desist. 0:05:31.756 --> 0:05:35.756 In twenty fifteen, Jeremy gets hired by DraftKings and Fan Duel. 0:05:36.516 --> 0:05:38.916 Nearly every state has a law that forbids running a 0:05:38.996 --> 0:05:42.116 sports book, and even if they wanted to legalize it, 0:05:42.236 --> 0:05:45.116 they couldn't thanks to a federal law created by New 0:05:45.156 --> 0:05:49.476 Jersey Senator Bill Bradley Jeremy Kudon's job is to try 0:05:49.516 --> 0:05:52.596 to prevent states from extending those anti gambling laws to 0:05:52.676 --> 0:05:56.556 fantasy sports, and ideally to get states to pass bills 0:05:56.876 --> 0:06:01.316 that explicitly legalize fantasy play. But Jeremy needs an argument 0:06:01.356 --> 0:06:02.916 for why legislators should do this. 0:06:04.076 --> 0:06:06.436 So in most states, if you can show that there 0:06:06.516 --> 0:06:10.436 is more skill than there is luck, then you will 0:06:11.156 --> 0:06:13.116 be able to say this isn't a form of gambling, 0:06:13.116 --> 0:06:15.476 and therefore he is legal like most states allow you 0:06:15.516 --> 0:06:18.556 to have. Like golf tournaments are legal, fishing tournaments are legal. 0:06:19.196 --> 0:06:22.436 That's his argument. Fantasy sports are games of skill, more 0:06:22.516 --> 0:06:26.276 like phishing tournaments than playing the slots. To prove his point, 0:06:26.316 --> 0:06:30.076 he hires an economist. The economists runs some numbers to 0:06:30.116 --> 0:06:33.036 show that the best fantasy football players are better at 0:06:33.036 --> 0:06:38.196 building teams than any actual NFL general manager. Jeremy's argument 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:41.196 raises at least one question, why does states think that 0:06:41.236 --> 0:06:44.356 gambling is all luck? But let's leave that to one side. 0:06:44.476 --> 0:06:47.756 Because Jeremy didn't have a lot of time for philosophy. 0:06:47.836 --> 0:06:50.316 He was in a hurry to flip the switch in 0:06:50.356 --> 0:06:54.396 as many states as possible. How'd you pick which states 0:06:54.436 --> 0:06:55.036 to start with? 0:06:55.796 --> 0:06:59.316 We were focusing on smaller legislatures at the time, where 0:07:00.676 --> 0:07:02.716 this would be something that would interest them and that 0:07:02.756 --> 0:07:04.556 we would have time to actually pass. 0:07:04.316 --> 0:07:08.196 It smaller legislatures. That was one trait that made a 0:07:08.236 --> 0:07:10.516 state open to his, say els pitch, But there were 0:07:10.516 --> 0:07:11.836 other less obvious ones. 0:07:13.556 --> 0:07:16.476 You know, I wanted to have male dominated legislatures at 0:07:16.476 --> 0:07:18.396 the time because I, you know, I felt like it 0:07:18.396 --> 0:07:20.116 would be easier to explain the issue. 0:07:20.356 --> 0:07:22.516 You actually thought of that, that it was going to 0:07:22.556 --> 0:07:24.316 be easier to sell us to guys than to women. 0:07:25.276 --> 0:07:28.196 I did, yes, Why and why did you think that? 0:07:29.956 --> 0:07:33.036 Because, well, some of the women and look, there's a 0:07:33.036 --> 0:07:35.116 lot of women who were great with dannis sports I want. 0:07:34.956 --> 0:07:35.436 To make clearer. 0:07:35.516 --> 0:07:37.716 Oh yeah, no, A lot of them were like, I 0:07:37.756 --> 0:07:39.796 have no idea what you're talking about. That just sounds 0:07:39.836 --> 0:07:42.276 like gambling. And with a lot of the men are like, 0:07:42.276 --> 0:07:44.076 oh no, I do fantasy sports. You're telling me this 0:07:44.116 --> 0:07:45.876 is gambling. There's no way this is gambling. It is 0:07:45.876 --> 0:07:46.476 for my friends. 0:07:48.196 --> 0:07:51.436 Kansas is the first to explicitly legalize daily pay to 0:07:51.476 --> 0:07:54.956 play fantasy sports. Not obvious, right, I mean, in fact, 0:07:54.956 --> 0:07:58.076 pretty random. If you had to guess which state would 0:07:58.076 --> 0:08:00.356 be the first to let its citizens off any leash. 0:08:00.836 --> 0:08:04.236 Kansas isn't who you'd pick. Once he has Kansas in 0:08:04.276 --> 0:08:07.556 the bag, Jeremy persuades twenty two more states to pass 0:08:07.676 --> 0:08:12.516 laws allowing fantasies sports. After he's finished, the color coded 0:08:12.556 --> 0:08:15.556 map of where fantasy is legal will look nothing like 0:08:15.596 --> 0:08:18.156 the usual red and blue political maps we spend our 0:08:18.196 --> 0:08:23.396 lives staring at. For example, both Arkansas and New York 0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:28.876 will allow fantasy sports, but both Hawaii and Idaho will 0:08:28.876 --> 0:08:33.636 forbid it. And when Jeremy's done, twenty three otherwise unrelated 0:08:33.676 --> 0:08:37.956 states will share one very important thing in common. They 0:08:37.996 --> 0:08:42.076 will all have legalized fantasy sports, which suggests they might 0:08:42.076 --> 0:08:52.316 be gained to legalize some other stuff. How do you 0:08:52.356 --> 0:08:54.276 get interested in sports betting in the first place? 0:08:55.436 --> 0:08:58.556 I mean, in the first place a Catholic grade school. 0:08:59.556 --> 0:09:02.876 Joe Brennan Jr. Like lots of people in this episode, 0:09:03.156 --> 0:09:05.676 he grew up within one hundred miles of Trenton, New Jersey, 0:09:06.516 --> 0:09:09.076 and went to a grade school with an illegal sport. 0:09:09.116 --> 0:09:10.436 It's gambling ring inside of it. 0:09:11.356 --> 0:09:15.996 The first time I actually saw one of the typical 0:09:16.156 --> 0:09:20.916 the classic NFL parlay tickets that you see get handed 0:09:20.916 --> 0:09:24.196 out that White Parley tickets in the second grade, and 0:09:24.236 --> 0:09:26.516 then the first one I played one was in the 0:09:26.516 --> 0:09:27.116 fifth grade. 0:09:28.836 --> 0:09:31.476 Joe grows up in the early two thousands, goes to 0:09:31.516 --> 0:09:34.836 work for an Internet company. The internet's new back then, 0:09:34.916 --> 0:09:37.196 and people are wondering what other people might want to 0:09:37.196 --> 0:09:40.356 do on it. Joe thinks one thing they might want 0:09:40.396 --> 0:09:45.556 to do gamble on sports, a service illegal to provide 0:09:46.116 --> 0:09:47.756 almost anywhere outside of Nevada. 0:09:48.596 --> 0:09:52.276 Sports betting was always referred to, at least in gaming 0:09:52.436 --> 0:09:55.876 and gaming politics, as the third rail of gaming politics. 0:09:56.076 --> 0:09:58.156 That it was just it was for Boden. 0:09:58.356 --> 0:10:00.276 Don't even get into a discussion of it. 0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:04.156 That's partly because of Senator Bill Bradley's law. Well, by 0:10:04.196 --> 0:10:06.516 now most people have forgotten that it's Bill Bradley's law. 0:10:06.676 --> 0:10:10.396 They just call it by its acronym PASPA. Past has 0:10:10.396 --> 0:10:12.156 been the law of the land for a long time. 0:10:13.036 --> 0:10:15.956 Everyone seems to be for it and no one seems 0:10:15.956 --> 0:10:20.316 to be against it. The NFL, the NCAA, the NBA, 0:10:20.316 --> 0:10:24.476 Major League Baseball, every major sports institution in America says 0:10:24.516 --> 0:10:29.076 sports gambling is evil. Joe doesn't care. He sees a 0:10:29.116 --> 0:10:33.276 business opportunity. He raises some money, creates a firm to 0:10:33.356 --> 0:10:36.636 lobby for change, and the change starts the way it 0:10:36.716 --> 0:10:39.996 always starts in Washington with panel discussions. 0:10:40.956 --> 0:10:45.236 I was invited to speak at the annual Sports Law 0:10:45.476 --> 0:10:48.716 Conference because it was here in Washington, DC, and was 0:10:48.756 --> 0:10:51.396 on a panel about legal sports betting. 0:10:52.236 --> 0:10:55.596 This is in twenty twelve. The room's mostly filled with 0:10:55.796 --> 0:11:00.556 like minded people. People who want sports betting legalized, many 0:11:00.596 --> 0:11:02.756 of whom have grown up within one hundred miles of Trenton, 0:11:02.796 --> 0:11:06.116 New Jersey. People who think, why can't these idiots who 0:11:06.156 --> 0:11:08.796 hate sports gambling see that their law is dumb since 0:11:08.796 --> 0:11:12.676 every school kids already doing it. A regulator from the 0:11:12.676 --> 0:11:14.116 state of Missouri was speaking. 0:11:14.956 --> 0:11:16.996 There was a gentleman sitting in the audience, and boy, 0:11:17.036 --> 0:11:19.596 this guy was casually dressed. He was just in like 0:11:19.716 --> 0:11:23.476 rugby shorts and a really you know, well worn polo 0:11:23.596 --> 0:11:27.356 shirt and you know, in between guffaws and saying things 0:11:27.396 --> 0:11:33.036 under his breath, the Missouri regulator asked him, is there 0:11:33.076 --> 0:11:34.436 something that you would like to say? 0:11:34.596 --> 0:11:34.836 Sir? 0:11:34.876 --> 0:11:36.716 Do you have a question for us? And they handed 0:11:36.756 --> 0:11:39.476 him the mic and he stood up and he said, 0:11:39.636 --> 0:11:44.316 I probably have more to do with that law PASPA 0:11:44.516 --> 0:11:48.836 being enacted than anybody else. My name is Jay Moyer, 0:11:49.116 --> 0:11:52.156 and I am the general counsel and executive vice president 0:11:52.276 --> 0:11:56.316 of the NFL. And there was a combination of dead 0:11:56.436 --> 0:11:59.596 silence and then the panelgon like whoa I said something 0:11:59.676 --> 0:12:01.636 probably not so nice. 0:12:01.476 --> 0:12:02.956 Like oh, so you're the guy to blame. 0:12:05.276 --> 0:12:08.716 So so mister Moyer did stand there and he expressed 0:12:08.956 --> 0:12:13.596 very very strong opinion as to why that law was 0:12:13.716 --> 0:12:15.956 enacted and why I should stand. And there was about 0:12:15.956 --> 0:12:19.796 the sanctity of the contests and that they should never 0:12:19.836 --> 0:12:22.796 be called into question, and that with gambling, it would 0:12:22.836 --> 0:12:26.556 be inevitable that it would just descend into madness, that 0:12:26.596 --> 0:12:31.996 people would never trust sports ever. Again, he wasn't mister 0:12:32.036 --> 0:12:34.996 popularity in that room. Some of the audience started to 0:12:34.996 --> 0:12:38.116 say things, some of the folks on the panels started 0:12:38.156 --> 0:12:41.876 to say things, and to the point where mister Moyer 0:12:41.996 --> 0:12:46.676 definitely got flustered, and he finally he pointed his finger 0:12:46.756 --> 0:12:51.836 at us, and very red face he said, and I'll 0:12:51.876 --> 0:12:57.396 never forget this. I guarantee you this. You will never 0:12:58.156 --> 0:12:59.476 overturn that law. 0:13:03.596 --> 0:13:06.636 You heard Joe laughing there. He was already working to 0:13:06.676 --> 0:13:08.756 overturn that law by getting. 0:13:08.516 --> 0:13:11.756 A state to fe You start looking at Okay, well, 0:13:11.756 --> 0:13:14.596 what's a good state to start with. Who's going to 0:13:14.636 --> 0:13:19.116 be our test case? And Jersey was obvious Why So 0:13:19.796 --> 0:13:22.436 it was a combination of things. Was New Jersey was 0:13:22.516 --> 0:13:26.996 already very motivated to find something for Atlantic City to 0:13:27.076 --> 0:13:28.316 reverse its decline. 0:13:29.956 --> 0:13:32.476 People weren't packing the Atlantic City casinos the way they 0:13:32.516 --> 0:13:35.396 used to. Sports gambling was like the thing every Jersey 0:13:35.396 --> 0:13:38.356 boy did with his lunch money. And maybe most importantly, 0:13:38.716 --> 0:13:41.636 because after all this was New Jersey, there was a 0:13:41.676 --> 0:13:42.636 guy you could see. 0:13:45.196 --> 0:13:49.556 There was this one loan state legislator in New Jersey, 0:13:49.596 --> 0:13:50.836 Senator ray Lesniak. 0:13:51.716 --> 0:13:54.836 First of all, I was chairman of the Senate Economic 0:13:54.916 --> 0:13:55.996 Development Committee. 0:13:56.556 --> 0:14:00.276 Ray Lesniak now retired, but once a New Jersey State senator, 0:14:00.956 --> 0:14:06.116 I could get anything through the legislature. I passed the 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:10.236 first law in the nation polishing the death penalty. 0:14:10.316 --> 0:14:13.356 That was not easy. I got a whole bunch of things. Yeah, 0:14:13.356 --> 0:14:16.156 I was pretty I was the main man in those days. 0:14:16.996 --> 0:14:19.516 As main man, ray thought he had a firm grip 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:22.276 on New Jersey. He thought he could fix anything about 0:14:22.316 --> 0:14:25.716 it that bothered him. But then a friend of mine, 0:14:25.996 --> 0:14:30.636 Rudy Garcia, was arrested for placing a sports bet with 0:14:30.756 --> 0:14:34.356 a local bookie that happened back in March of two 0:14:34.396 --> 0:14:37.796 thousand and seven as part of an FBI sting. Rudy 0:14:37.796 --> 0:14:41.036 Garcia wasn't just Ray's friend. He was the former mayor 0:14:41.076 --> 0:14:44.716 of Union City, New Jersey, a lobbyist and an important 0:14:44.796 --> 0:14:50.956 ally in Jersey politics until he got whacked. That's amazing 0:14:50.996 --> 0:14:54.276 to me that anyone bothered arresting him. Who's arresting a 0:14:54.316 --> 0:14:56.956 guy who's placing best sports bets with his friends in 0:14:56.956 --> 0:14:57.276 a bar. 0:14:57.836 --> 0:14:59.876 Well, there was a set up, obviously, it was a 0:14:59.916 --> 0:15:03.356 sting in operation, and they thought he was a runner. 0:15:04.276 --> 0:15:05.676 By the way, I know all about this. 0:15:05.836 --> 0:15:08.796 I used to place bets for my dad at the 0:15:08.836 --> 0:15:10.996 local grocery store when I was growing up. 0:15:12.116 --> 0:15:14.716 Of course he did, and the idea that Rudy Garcia 0:15:14.796 --> 0:15:17.836 got arrested for placing bets offended raised sense of right 0:15:17.876 --> 0:15:18.356 and wrong. 0:15:19.396 --> 0:15:21.636 He was arrested for doing something he could have gotten 0:15:21.676 --> 0:15:24.516 on a plane and flew to Las Vegas to do. 0:15:25.596 --> 0:15:27.276 And so Ray tries to do what he can usually 0:15:27.316 --> 0:15:31.516 easily do, change New Jersey state law, in this case, 0:15:31.556 --> 0:15:34.276 to legalize sports betting, even though it puts him in 0:15:34.276 --> 0:15:38.276 an odd emotional position because he himself has a complicated 0:15:38.356 --> 0:15:40.796 history with gambling off track. 0:15:40.876 --> 0:15:44.156 Betting was allowed in New York but not New Jersey. 0:15:44.916 --> 0:15:45.756 And I live in. 0:15:45.756 --> 0:15:50.116 Elizabeth and Gotha's Bridge is right in my neighborhood. 0:15:50.476 --> 0:15:52.156 Twenty minute rides or less. 0:15:52.796 --> 0:15:56.236 I was driving somewhere and then all of a sudden, 0:15:56.276 --> 0:15:58.716 I found myself on the Gothel's Bridge going to the 0:15:58.716 --> 0:15:59.356 betting polo. 0:16:00.876 --> 0:16:03.916 I just was like attracted there. I didn't even think 0:16:03.956 --> 0:16:04.396 about it. 0:16:05.476 --> 0:16:08.476 I said, Holy, here's my lane, which I was about 0:16:08.516 --> 0:16:12.516 to say, Well, that was a wake up call. 0:16:12.516 --> 0:16:18.556 I was full fledged atic for sure. Ray knew the dangers, 0:16:18.996 --> 0:16:21.876 but he didn't like anti sports betting laws or the 0:16:21.916 --> 0:16:26.076 fact that they were being used against his friend Rudy Garcia. 0:16:26.196 --> 0:16:28.876 Even though Rudy was never actually charged, the damage was 0:16:28.916 --> 0:16:32.716 done by this stupid law. So Ray decides to fight 0:16:32.796 --> 0:16:36.636 Bradley's law. But this he cannot do without the Governor 0:16:36.676 --> 0:16:39.356 of New Jersey's help, and the Governor of New Jersey 0:16:39.396 --> 0:16:40.836 at the time is Chris Christy. 0:16:42.436 --> 0:16:46.636 Strangely enough, Christy and I do not get along at all, 0:16:47.276 --> 0:16:47.756 but he is. 0:16:47.716 --> 0:16:48.876 A very polite person. 0:16:49.236 --> 0:16:51.956 One of the things reasons why we didn't get along 0:16:52.116 --> 0:16:55.396 is that eight times he tried to block my effort 0:16:55.516 --> 0:16:57.156 to legalize sports. 0:16:56.956 --> 0:17:02.476 Betting without the governor on board. Raised powerless. But then 0:17:02.516 --> 0:17:06.916 he hears from Joe Brennan, Washington lobbyist for Internet sports gambling. 0:17:07.716 --> 0:17:10.356 Joe has a pile of money enough to get a 0:17:10.396 --> 0:17:14.276 proposition on the state ballot in twenty eleven to ask 0:17:14.316 --> 0:17:16.756 the people of New Jersey directly if they want to 0:17:16.836 --> 0:17:20.396 legalize sports betting. And you can guess what they decided. 0:17:22.636 --> 0:17:25.356 Folks in the state of New Jersey voted yesterday to 0:17:25.436 --> 0:17:26.836 legalize sports betting. 0:17:27.396 --> 0:17:30.396 The referendums just for show. It has no legal effect, 0:17:31.196 --> 0:17:33.996 but still two thirds of the voters in New Jersey 0:17:34.076 --> 0:17:36.956 vote to legalize sports betting. And how could they not? 0:17:37.436 --> 0:17:40.876 Three quarters of their children are already doing it. Ray 0:17:40.876 --> 0:17:44.236 thinks he's just forced Chris Christie's hand, and he's right. 0:17:45.596 --> 0:17:48.996 That's why I'm pleased to announce today that our administration 0:17:49.196 --> 0:17:57.036 is formally submitting our sports gambling regulations this week. When 0:17:57.076 --> 0:17:59.996 you looked at the black market in sports betting, you're 0:18:00.036 --> 0:18:03.356 talking about billions of dollars that's bet you know, was 0:18:03.756 --> 0:18:07.316 used to be bet on the black market in sports 0:18:07.316 --> 0:18:08.116 betting every year. 0:18:09.196 --> 0:18:11.516 That's Chris Christi explaining his change of heart. 0:18:12.156 --> 0:18:17.396 I thought, you know, legitimizing that already ongoing activity would 0:18:17.476 --> 0:18:21.596 not only create you know, great economic benefit for the state. 0:18:22.076 --> 0:18:23.996 Did you how did you have any sense of the 0:18:23.996 --> 0:18:27.076 size of the black market. Had you bet yourself? 0:18:28.076 --> 0:18:31.316 No, I was not someone who had bet myself, not 0:18:31.396 --> 0:18:32.236 since high school. 0:18:33.156 --> 0:18:36.276 Not since high school in New Jersey. This doesn't even count. 0:18:37.076 --> 0:18:41.316 There were always, you know, little minor bookies that were 0:18:41.356 --> 0:18:44.236 available in your school that would pass out these these 0:18:44.956 --> 0:18:49.396 like cards with the spreads for the football games on Sunday, 0:18:50.316 --> 0:18:52.556 and yeah, you'd bet five bucks and give them a card. 0:18:52.596 --> 0:18:55.676 And it was, you know, a fellow classmate as a 0:18:55.756 --> 0:18:57.596 runner for a bookie somewhere. 0:18:57.636 --> 0:18:58.836 Where did you go to high school? 0:18:59.196 --> 0:19:01.796 I went to Livingston High School in Livingston, New Jersey. 0:19:01.996 --> 0:19:05.916 I grew up in New Orleans. And nobody's running running 0:19:06.036 --> 0:19:08.556 bookies slips into the high school. Like, was this a 0:19:08.596 --> 0:19:09.876 common thing in New Jersey? 0:19:10.556 --> 0:19:12.236 Yeah? Absolutely. 0:19:13.716 --> 0:19:18.956 Welcome to the garden state, baby. 0:19:20.796 --> 0:19:23.636 Chris Christy and ray Lesniak may not get along, but 0:19:23.756 --> 0:19:26.596 they share a public garden. If they can mow down 0:19:26.636 --> 0:19:29.396 the rose bushes and develop it, they could both get rich. 0:19:30.116 --> 0:19:34.236 But the Lamb's controlled by Bill Bradley, New Jersey's former senator. 0:19:35.316 --> 0:19:39.236 That's what Bradley really thought, that gambling on any kind 0:19:39.236 --> 0:19:43.636 of large scale would kill the integrity of sports. He 0:19:43.676 --> 0:19:45.636 also used to tell me that he didn't want to 0:19:45.676 --> 0:19:49.196 be bet on like he was a horse. He was 0:19:49.236 --> 0:19:50.996 a human being, and he didn't want to be bet on, 0:19:52.196 --> 0:19:55.676 and he didn't want his performance bet on. So you know, 0:19:55.956 --> 0:19:58.356 I reminded the Senator any number of times that it 0:19:58.436 --> 0:20:00.676 already was being bet on, just not legally. 0:20:01.596 --> 0:20:04.796 Did you get where Bradley was coming from? Did anything 0:20:04.836 --> 0:20:06.356 he say make any sense to you? 0:20:07.756 --> 0:20:09.556 It made some sense to me, but I thought it 0:20:09.596 --> 0:20:14.916 was extraordinarily naive. And look, that wouldn't be the first 0:20:14.916 --> 0:20:17.836 time that Senator Bragley was accused of being naive. In fact, 0:20:17.836 --> 0:20:22.236 I think it's one of his greater character traits because 0:20:22.876 --> 0:20:24.996 it led him to think in a much different way 0:20:25.076 --> 0:20:27.116 than a lot of people. A lot of other people do, 0:20:27.436 --> 0:20:29.556 especially in New Jersey. 0:20:30.996 --> 0:20:34.876 Let's recap here a bit. In nineteen ninety two, New 0:20:34.916 --> 0:20:37.556 Jersey Senator Bill Bradley gets Congress to pass a law 0:20:37.636 --> 0:20:41.636 banning most states from legalizing sports gambling, but illegal gambling 0:20:41.796 --> 0:20:46.396 carries on in his home state, And meanwhile, fantasy sports 0:20:46.436 --> 0:20:49.916 starts taking off and states around the country are persuaded 0:20:49.956 --> 0:20:53.996 to legalize that. In twenty eleven, the voters of New 0:20:54.076 --> 0:20:57.396 Jersey let it be known loudly they'd like sports betting 0:20:57.436 --> 0:21:01.796 to be legal. Now, Chris Christy, the governor who previously 0:21:01.836 --> 0:21:05.156 opposed sports betting, is not only saying he'll let it happen, 0:21:05.996 --> 0:21:08.476 he's preparing to pick a fight with Bill Bradley's law. 0:21:09.636 --> 0:21:12.996 Explain what's its stack here, and that how the federal 0:21:13.036 --> 0:21:16.836 government wasn't banning sports betting, it was preventing states from 0:21:16.956 --> 0:21:18.836 legalizing it, which is different. 0:21:19.836 --> 0:21:20.716 Right, And. 0:21:22.276 --> 0:21:26.036 Essentially, what we said was if the federal government tells 0:21:26.116 --> 0:21:30.676 you that you cannot do something, then they have to 0:21:30.756 --> 0:21:38.316 provide the regulatory muscle to prevent it from happening. And 0:21:38.356 --> 0:21:40.956 they weren't doing that. They basically just told us you 0:21:40.996 --> 0:21:43.316 can't do it. And by the way, if anybody's doing 0:21:43.356 --> 0:21:46.036 it in your state, you're responsible for preventing it. 0:21:47.676 --> 0:21:50.676 Chris Christy and Ray Lesniak both fought in their separate 0:21:50.716 --> 0:21:55.236 ways that Bill Bradley's law was unconstitutional. I mean, after all, 0:21:55.356 --> 0:21:59.516 Congress could have simply banned sports gambling, but it hadn't, 0:22:00.036 --> 0:22:03.836 mainly because it carved out an exception for Nevada. So 0:22:03.876 --> 0:22:07.236 the law was weird. And Ray gets the vote to 0:22:07.276 --> 0:22:10.636 pass the law legalizing sports betting in New Jersey, and 0:22:10.756 --> 0:22:14.356 Chris does indeed sign it. Then the two gentlemen in 0:22:14.356 --> 0:22:17.476 New Jersey sit back to see what will happen next. 0:22:21.476 --> 0:22:24.196 So how often do you have clients come to you 0:22:24.196 --> 0:22:25.956 and say, I'm going to break the law, so I 0:22:25.996 --> 0:22:27.716 need you to make the law go away. 0:22:28.436 --> 0:22:33.676 Well, I don't recall too many occasions when someone's come 0:22:33.716 --> 0:22:35.516 to me and said I'm going to break the law. 0:22:36.636 --> 0:22:41.476 Meet Ted Olsen, maybe the greatest living constitutional lawyer, who, 0:22:41.516 --> 0:22:45.236 in twenty twelve, to Chris Christie's delight and surprise, has 0:22:45.276 --> 0:22:47.716 not already been locked up by the NFL, or the 0:22:47.836 --> 0:22:49.396 NBA or the NCAA. 0:22:50.076 --> 0:22:54.356 What happened here was that we wanted to test the constitutionality. 0:22:54.476 --> 0:22:59.516 Nobody broke the law. The legislature passed a statute changing 0:22:59.796 --> 0:23:04.996 New Jersey's constitution and statutes, and at that point our 0:23:05.036 --> 0:23:08.716 opponents came in and asked the court to stop that 0:23:08.756 --> 0:23:10.356 process as from taking place. 0:23:11.076 --> 0:23:13.876 Okay, so the politicians in New Jersey didn't exactly break 0:23:13.916 --> 0:23:16.796 the law. They passed a law that broke the law, 0:23:17.476 --> 0:23:20.236 knowing that they'd be sued by everyone who liked that law, 0:23:20.516 --> 0:23:22.956 and knowing that ted Olsen was just the guy to 0:23:22.996 --> 0:23:23.556 fight back. 0:23:24.436 --> 0:23:27.476 It's very rare that you have an opportunity to challenge 0:23:27.516 --> 0:23:31.436 the constitutionality of an Act of Congress and seek a 0:23:31.476 --> 0:23:35.036 court to overturn an Act of Congress on constitutional grounds. 0:23:35.356 --> 0:23:37.796