1
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

3
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,600
Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie Tuckers.

4
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 1: We just published on episode the other day on the

5
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: science of addiction, and this is kind of the part two.

6
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you can probably listen to this episode without

7
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: having listened to the previous one, but they go well together,

8
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: so we recommend that viewing order let listening order rather.

9
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,160
Speaker 1: This episode is uh going to look at the future

10
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: of addiction. Uh, And we're not talking about just what

11
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 1: kind of crazy drugs would have in the future. Now,

12
00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about how can we treat addiction in the future.

13
00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: What are some of the cutting edge and emerging techniques

14
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,520
Speaker 1: and technologies that will be at our disposal to deal

15
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: with the disease of addiction. Yeah, and before we look

16
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 1: at the future stuff, let's just kind of look at

17
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: what's going on in the present. The number one driver

18
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: of aids in the world is used heroin needles, particularly

19
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 1: in countries where there's no needle exchange programs. So what

20
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 1: if you could get rid of the root problem, you

21
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: could eradicate heroin addiction or for that matter really any addiction. Yeah,

22
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,960
Speaker 1: and we're not just talking instantly. Minds tend to turn

23
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,400
Speaker 1: to Africa, and certainly that's one of the areas concerned here,

24
00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: but other you know, countries that don't have needle exchange

25
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: programs include such large UH population nations as China and Russia. Yeah,

26
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,559
Speaker 1: I think that people don't, you know, at least people

27
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: outside of the United States don't realize what in the

28
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 1: city is problem. This is half a trillion dollars are

29
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 1: spent worldwide to treat addiction. So here's just one little

30
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,320
Speaker 1: prism of the addiction problem in the US. And estimated

31
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 1: one point four million Americans are addicted to cocaine, which

32
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 1: was the reason for more than four hundred and eighty

33
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 1: two thousand emergency department visits in two thousand and eight

34
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 1: and is a leading cause of heart attack and stroke

35
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: among people younger than age five. So the problem here,

36
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: of course is that we have access and if you

37
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 1: look at you know sort of where drugs are in

38
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 1: the time continuum with history here, Um, we have more

39
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,520
Speaker 1: access to drugs than ever before, and more types of drugs,

40
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 1: and what emerges here are some highly highly addictive substances.

41
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm talking about meth which creates one of the biggest

42
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: boost of dopamine in the brain, and prolonged use of

43
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 1: this can lead to psychotic like symptoms, walking about, strong hallucinations,

44
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: and really violent behavior. And studies of the brain patterns

45
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 1: of some long term matthews have shown that up to

46
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,519
Speaker 1: their dopamine producing cells have been damaged. So if you

47
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: listened um to the other episode on this then you

48
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,639
Speaker 1: kind of know already that, uh, this is a situation

49
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: where the person is just getting deeper and deeper into

50
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,440
Speaker 1: the whole because it's not about free will anymore, because

51
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,959
Speaker 1: the parts of your brain, the executive function have been

52
00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: so eroded by drugs that even if you wanted to stop,

53
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,760
Speaker 1: you might not be able to. Yeah, and and and

54
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,239
Speaker 1: that's certainly the the anti drug messaging that I think

55
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: needs to be focused on more often with myth amphetamy,

56
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: because I was reading and according to neuro psychopharmacologist Carl Hart,

57
00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: there's actually no empirical evidence to support the claim that

58
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,760
Speaker 1: meth amphetamy causes one to become physically unattractive, which hopefully

59
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,120
Speaker 1: they've they're calming down on that, but for the longest,

60
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 1: like like meth mouth you know, in the affirmation of

61
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,080
Speaker 1: the meth addict and just some sort of subhuman hyena

62
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 1: person has been kind of the focus. When certainly that's

63
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 1: flashy that works on a billboard a little easier, but

64
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,480
Speaker 1: the the reality of what's actually changing with the brain

65
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: that is far scarier than some sort of jackal and

66
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,360
Speaker 1: hide show. I agree. I have seen the ads before

67
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 1: where there's like this beautiful woman and then she takes

68
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: out her false teeth and she takes off her makeup

69
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you ease her her methatic

70
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,640
Speaker 1: riddled face, and they are appealing to vanity. But vanity

71
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 1: doesn't matter when addiction is highly routinized in your brain, Um,

72
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 1: nobody cares anymore what they look like. So if you

73
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 1: were to instead crack open the brain and show people

74
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 1: this is how your brain is actually like completely mutating here,

75
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,799
Speaker 1: that might be a far more compelling story to people.

76
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,159
Speaker 1: The next one is another biggie, and that is of

77
00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,479
Speaker 1: course heroin UH derived from opium, And of course this

78
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: one has been wreaking havoc for for years and years. Yeah,

79
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,320
Speaker 1: thirty of first time users will become addicted. In two

80
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: thousand and five, two point four of the American population

81
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 1: said they had tried heroin at least once. The source

82
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: of that Department of Health, and withdrawal symptoms are really acute.

83
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 1: They arrived just a few hours after a dose swears off,

84
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: and because of this, users have a really high chance

85
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: for relapse. Because we talked about this in the last episode. UM,

86
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: at some point the addiction becomes less about chasing the

87
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 1: high and more about chasing some sort of equilibrium and

88
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: feeling normal again, which can only happen if you get

89
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 1: more of the substance in your body. All right, and

90
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,880
Speaker 1: the next big one to hit might come as surprise

91
00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:15,039
Speaker 1: because it's not crack cocaine. It is nicotine. Nicotine is

92
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 1: a very addictive substance. But we often overlook this why UM,

93
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 1: I think it's because it's legalized, right, something like of

94
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,680
Speaker 1: people who ever try cigarettes will become nicotine addicts. At

95
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,200
Speaker 1: some point, you can buy it legally at the store,

96
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,320
Speaker 1: at the gas station. Used to you could get out

97
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: of a machine. UM. Someone's liable to and it's given

98
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 1: its legality and an overall still social acceptance, UM, people

99
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:43,920
Speaker 1: are liable to give it to you without it being

100
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 1: that big of a deal as well so, and it

101
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: still looks cool on TV, right, Yeah, and it's not

102
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 1: as big of a risk. And this is something that

103
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: David Lyndon, a professor of neuroscience at Johns Hopkins University,

104
00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 1: pointed out. He said, you know, hey, if you have

105
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,160
Speaker 1: a bag of heroin, you're not going to do a

106
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 1: whole bag of heroin. You know you're gonna overdose. But

107
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,840
Speaker 1: if you have a pack of cigarettes and you have

108
00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 1: ten or twenty of those cigarettes throughout the day, you

109
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: get that little ding of dopamine each time. And he

110
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, he kind of like lined it to

111
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:15,840
Speaker 1: pa off s dog, right, so he said that we're

112
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: really good at training or inner dog and sort of

113
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 1: being like, oh, I need a little pick up right now.

114
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,719
Speaker 1: And you get that little dopamine um pleasure feeling from it,

115
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: But you're not going to necessarily um render yourself unconscious

116
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: or unable to work or any of those things. But

117
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 1: still it is an addiction, and it is an addictive behavior. Yeah,

118
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 1: you hear about people being one or two back a

119
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 1: day smoker. Whereas in the panel they pointed out that

120
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,200
Speaker 1: that even a heavy heroin user is probably not going

121
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 1: to use more than three times a day. And so

122
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: to go back to what one of the topics we

123
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 1: discussed in the previous episode chunking that idea that the

124
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,920
Speaker 1: brain is forming habits get x than Y and Z

125
00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,400
Speaker 1: and uh and then forming a shortcut kind of a

126
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 1: hot key for the brain for behavior encoding the memory

127
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,000
Speaker 1: of usage. Uh, you're you're going to have what you know,

128
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,440
Speaker 1: twenty times uh or more per day that you're enforcing

129
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,760
Speaker 1: that shortcut as opposed to a maximum three times per

130
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: day with the hairin user. Yeah. And Charles Higg, the

131
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 1: author of UM, the Habit Loop, I think I totally

132
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 1: slaughtered that. But um, he's talked about this and written

133
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,720
Speaker 1: about this at length, and he says his claim is

134
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 1: that percent of our decisions every day that's just habit.

135
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 1: We think we're making these decisions, but really we're just

136
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 1: responding to environmental cues in these well worn neural pathways

137
00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: in our brains. Yeah, because we've discussed before, habits take

138
00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 1: up energy, they take a cognitive power, and we don't

139
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: have a limitless amount of that. So we handed over

140
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: to to routine. We handed over to habit so that

141
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: we'll have some juice to handle the actual decisions that

142
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: are coming at us, and of course that the problem

143
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: with this is that again, your brain, your brain secretry,

144
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 1: isn't making any sort of like, hey, this could be

145
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: a terrible thing. Don't do this, um, and your prefrontal cortex,

146
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: your executive functions in your brain are already sort of

147
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: um lessened by the addictive behavior. All right. The next

148
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: thing we have here is prescription medication, one of the

149
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 1: rapidly growing substances of abuse in the US. Between nineteen

150
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:25,679
Speaker 1: eighty and nine, abuse of prescription drugs increased four and

151
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 1: it has about the same amount of usage in America

152
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 1: as cocaine. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse,

153
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: drug overdose was the leading cause of injury death in

154
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,679
Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, and among people twenty five to

155
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: sixty four years old, drug overdose caused more death than

156
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:50,560
Speaker 1: motor vehicle traffic crashes. So the National Institute on Drug

157
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,880
Speaker 1: Abuse goes on to say, by the way, two intend

158
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 1: seventy eight percent of the drug overdose deaths in the

159
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,120
Speaker 1: US were unintentional, seventy eight percent. And I think that

160
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 1: this is painting a story here about how prescription drugs

161
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: UH have become so accessible in people are mixing them

162
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,440
Speaker 1: with other drugs or mixing them with alcohol to their detriment. Yeah,

163
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's important to to to to to

164
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 1: to point out that prescription drugs just because it's prescribed

165
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,959
Speaker 1: does not mean it is necessarily a safe substance of

166
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 1: Any of these are very dangerou socis. I mean, any

167
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,800
Speaker 1: of these are emphatamines. Uh, and they're not that different

168
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 1: from the illegal variant, and certainly methemphatamine itself is memory

169
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 1: serves as schedule to narcotic anyway, which means that it

170
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,320
Speaker 1: becausivably has a medical purpose. Uh. And it makes sense

171
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 1: to like which which car is going to be faster?

172
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 1: The one made in a garage or the one made

173
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 1: uh at at a factory? Right? And what do we

174
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 1: have with with drugs? Your street drug is often made

175
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: in a garage, whereas your your pharmaceutical product is made

176
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,640
Speaker 1: by a billion upon billion dollars in this tree. So

177
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a supercharged vehicle. Yeah. And um,

178
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 1: I'm sure that people are aware that there are ways

179
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 1: that people get their hands on drugs that they shouldn't have.

180
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 1: There are legal drugs prescribed, and I won't go into that.

181
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:15,840
Speaker 1: I will say that If you are interested in learning

182
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 1: more about this prescription drugs, check out the documentary American

183
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 1: Addict that goes into detail. It's pretty depressing, um, but

184
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,720
Speaker 1: it's also very eye opening about this topic. All Right,

185
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and we get back.

186
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the treatment of addiction. All Right,

187
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,800
Speaker 1: we're back. So we've we've discussed addiction here. Let's talk

188
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 1: about the ways that we treat addiction. We have several

189
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 1: different approaches that are currently in play, and we're looking

190
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 1: at some some new methods of tackling in the future. Yeah,

191
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,880
Speaker 1: and before we go into that, we should say, hey,

192
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,640
Speaker 1: by the way, rate of relapse is really high for addicts.

193
00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,600
Speaker 1: I think this is something most people know. According to

194
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: the National Institute on Drug Abuse, relapse rates for drug

195
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 1: addicted patients about fort's similar to relapse and those suffering

196
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: from diabetes, hypertension, and asthma and drug addiction should be

197
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: treated like any other chronic illness, with relapse serving as

198
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 1: a trigger for renewed intervention. So keep this in mind. Um.

199
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,760
Speaker 1: And we talked about this this idea of memory and

200
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: cooding behavior and there are being triggers for that. So

201
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,960
Speaker 1: imagine that you have just completed a program, say from

202
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,320
Speaker 1: heroin abuse, and you get out and um, I think

203
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 1: I called them before, these neural ghosts, these neural pathways

204
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: in your brain, the sort of cellular scarring that's still there.

205
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 1: It's very easy to tap into that and have that

206
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,840
Speaker 1: behavior express itself again. A great example of this is

207
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 1: Philip Seymour Hoffman, which is brought up at the World

208
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 1: Science Festival for the panel of the Craving Brain. They said,

209
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,680
Speaker 1: look at this guy. He was something like ten years

210
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: sober from heroin addiction, went to a rat party one night,

211
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: had a beer, and then something like I don't know

212
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 1: was it weeks or months later, had died from heroin overdose. Yeah.

213
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 1: I just started him down the path, opened up those

214
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 1: pathways again in the brain, those those pathways of habit

215
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: and behavior in addiction, and uh, and then they where

216
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: he ended up. Yeah, So you know you're not treating

217
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,679
Speaker 1: something that's easily dealt with here, right, Just I keep

218
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 1: coming back to the idea of a cat's cradle, right,

219
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: you know, where you take the shoelace tied together and

220
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: you you string it between your fingers and it's all

221
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,199
Speaker 1: the different fingers holding the string out to form this pattern,

222
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 1: and you can't you know, put a point at one

223
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,199
Speaker 1: particular finger and say that is the cause of the pattern,

224
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,840
Speaker 1: that is the cause of the the overall design here.

225
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: And just as there's no over that one finger you

226
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,440
Speaker 1: can pin the whole design on, there's no one finger

227
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 1: you can remove, there's no one treatment plan. It's going

228
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 1: to be a magic bullet against the problem of addiction. Yeah,

229
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,560
Speaker 1: because in one sense, um, it doesn't really matter anymore

230
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,880
Speaker 1: if you have genetic dispositions to addiction, if you're in

231
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: the middle of an addiction, because at that point you've

232
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 1: got habit taken over, you've got the transfer station, there

233
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 1: are significant changes to your brain, and now you've got

234
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, memory all wrapped up in it. So um,

235
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,400
Speaker 1: so yeah, it is a bit of a cat's cradle,

236
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: But the treatments can't really treat a cat's cradle. You

237
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: can pretty much go after individual fingers. Yeah. Yeah, there's

238
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 1: no unified treatments. So the most widespread medication right now,

239
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,320
Speaker 1: um is in a antidepressants, because this would address the

240
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,439
Speaker 1: feelings of despair or you know, any sort of pre

241
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,319
Speaker 1: existing condition like depression that may have led to the

242
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 1: addiction in the first place. So the problem with that

243
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: though is that you would have to really pair that

244
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,560
Speaker 1: with behavioral therapy, because it's not just enough to say,

245
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 1: here's an antidepressant, and we have another a number of

246
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,520
Speaker 1: other medications that sort of target individual parts of the

247
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,959
Speaker 1: chemical cocktail involved in addiction. UM. We have, for instance,

248
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: one of them of famous being a methodone which suppresses

249
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: withdrawal symptoms and relieves cravings with the people are recovering

250
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 1: from from heroin, uh, you know, morphine addiction. UM. You

251
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: have other substances such as now trek zone, which works

252
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: by blocking the effects of heroin and other opiates at

253
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,320
Speaker 1: the receptor sites. UM. You have, of course, so when

254
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,640
Speaker 1: you're dealing with nicotine nicotine, you have nicotine replacement therapy,

255
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: where essentially you're still getting the nicotine, just not through

256
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 1: the cigarette, and that's used to help with the with

257
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: the with with the with cravings and whatnot. With alcohol,

258
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: you have now trek zone, which blocks opiate receptors that

259
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,400
Speaker 1: are involved in the reroarting effects of drinking and in

260
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 1: the craving of alcohol. UM. So you see all these

261
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 1: types of medication there Again, they're going after sort of

262
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 1: a particular point in the chain chain of effect. And uh,

263
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: and but they can't they can't deal with environment. They

264
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,480
Speaker 1: can only deal with with one point in in the

265
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 1: the chemical reaction, be it in how the brain is

266
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 1: receiving or how the brain is dealing with withdrawal from

267
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 1: the substance. And of course that has to have to

268
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: have a behavioral counterpoint counterpoint part in order to succeed. Yeah,

269
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: and in the case of methadone, that itself is highly addictive,

270
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 1: and it's been to argue that you're just delaying the

271
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: process of rehabilitation. Really you're just moving the goalpost out.

272
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,680
Speaker 1: So what do we have on the horizon in the future,

273
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,640
Speaker 1: And you've got some really interesting things going on. UM

274
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:36,720
Speaker 1: one is called optogenetics, and are excuse me optogenics And

275
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 1: this is basically kind of like UM a light sensitive

276
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 1: molecule that's beamed into the brain so far of rats,

277
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: so rats that are learning certain habits. The researchers can

278
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 1: use this optogenetics treatment to basically turn on or off

279
00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 1: neurons in the rats brains and block the behavior and

280
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,640
Speaker 1: block the the ability of that rat to sort of

281
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 1: remember like Hey, I want to go and do this um.

282
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about this is that the rats change

283
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 1: their behavior in response to different rewards even when the

284
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: light wasn't present. So after they got the initial zap

285
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: with the light, they still didn't return to the bad

286
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 1: behavior even when a significant amount of time had passed.

287
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 1: So obviously this is happening in rats right now, not

288
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: in humans. Um. But it plays into this other idea,

289
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: which is electromagnetic magnetic stimulation. Yeah, this is the form

290
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 1: that this would likely take in the treatment of of

291
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 1: of human addicts, and certainly this is where the research

292
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 1: is headed. Um. And and in this we would use

293
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,800
Speaker 1: electromagnetic stimulation outside of the scalp, no surgery required, uh,

294
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: using transcranial magnetic stimulation on these particular parts of the

295
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,120
Speaker 1: brain again to almost uh not to simplify it and

296
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 1: say it's just like turning a switch on and off

297
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 1: in terms of addiction, but uh, but but turning off

298
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 1: that that that that craving, right, Yeah, and increasing the

299
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 1: neural activity in the parts of the brain that deal

300
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 1: with executive functions like willpower. Right. So that's what we've

301
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,359
Speaker 1: talked about that that's such a big part of this.

302
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,160
Speaker 1: So then you have you know, willpower being ramped up,

303
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: and you have the addiction behavior being ramped down. What

304
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 1: you still have to deal with is memory in those triggers.

305
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 1: And David Lyndon, the neuroscientists and author of The Compass

306
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 1: of Pleasure, says addiction is a form of learning. When we,

307
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: for example, puff on a cigarette or inject heroin in

308
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,159
Speaker 1: our arm, we are developing associations between the act of

309
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: puffing or the act of injecting all the other sensory

310
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: information that's around the sites and the smells, the people

311
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: were with, the music, we're hearing, the room. We're in

312
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 1: a situation that surrounds us and the pleasure that is

313
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 1: produced as the result of puffing on that cigarette or

314
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 1: injecting that heroin. Well, I hate to invoke the title

315
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,760
Speaker 1: of the movie anymore since it's invoked again in every

316
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: every news article on science that deals with erasing a memory.

317
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 1: But you kind of have to go eternal sunshine of

318
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: his follows's mind on that particular drug memory because, as

319
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,159
Speaker 1: we discussed in previous episode, uh, the drug memory is

320
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: has has is really firmly encoded. It's not just the

321
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 1: memory of taking the drug, is the memory of the environment,

322
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 1: the situation of the drug. All these things tied up

323
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 1: into it. So yeah, what if you could go after

324
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 1: that memory, If you could blast that memory sort of

325
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 1: photon torpedo it, then you could conceivably have a leg

326
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 1: up on beating the addiction, or you could you could

327
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: just like hose it down with a chemical, which is

328
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 1: essentially what researchers at the Script's Research Institute have done.

329
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,439
Speaker 1: This is from a Fall two thousand and thirteen study

330
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:49,720
Speaker 1: published online in Biological Psychiatry. For six days, they had

331
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 1: rats alternate between one of two rooms, and on the

332
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: odd days, they were put in a chamber let's call

333
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 1: it Chamber A and given meth. On even days they

334
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: were put in chamber B and given a sailine placebo.

335
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 1: So a couple of days later, half of these rodents

336
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: were given a choice between those two rooms, and the

337
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 1: room associated with that meth, of course, was preferred by

338
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: those rats who were injected with myth. But the other

339
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: half of the rodents were then injected with something called

340
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: La trunculin A or lat A, And this is a

341
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: chemical that interferes with actin, and that's a protein known

342
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 1: to be involved in memory formation. So when they were

343
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: injected with lacta excuse me, latte, the animals showed no

344
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: preference between rooms even up to a day later. Again,

345
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 1: this is all highly experimental, but it's it's giving us

346
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: an idea that there are certain interventions that can happen

347
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: to address all the different facets of addiction. And the

348
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: researchers do point out that you don't have to worry

349
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: about about this particular method being used to just erase memories.

350
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: Willy nilly. They say that you actually couldn't take their

351
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 1: discovery and array. It's your run of the mill memory

352
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: inside of the brain. Uh. They said, you can only

353
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,240
Speaker 1: use this to get rid of the strong drug associated memories.

354
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 1: And of course there's gonna be many more studies and

355
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 1: they will have to be human trials in order for

356
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: this too for the FDA to approve of it um.

357
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: But that gets us into this other territory in which

358
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 1: the f d A has approved one type of vaccine

359
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: but not another. And when I'm talking about our vaccines

360
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 1: developed by Kim d Janda, he was on that World

361
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: Science Festival panel of the Craving Brain to block the

362
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 1: effects of heroin and users, but also block the effects

363
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: of nicotine and users. So guess which one is being funded. Oh, well,

364
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 1: obviously they're going to fund the nicotine one, because that's

365
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 1: your that's your kind of your your white collar drug. Right,

366
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: everyone is dealing with nicotine. But heroin, Oh, that's that's

367
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 1: a dirty that's a dirty drug. That's the that's the

368
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the circus tent, right, that's the

369
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: that's down there with the safety nature. Yeah, even though

370
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 1: an estimated twelve million to four million people used heroin

371
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: as of two thousand and nine, accorded to according to

372
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 1: the United Nations Office on Tricks and Crime, and Americans

373
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: uh something like two in two thousand eleven. So obviously

374
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: it's a pervasive problem when we spend a lot of

375
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: money on that. But the vaccine itself stimulates the immune

376
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: system to recognize the substance, and it has to be

377
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 1: given over a period of weeks, which eventually renders the

378
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 1: person immune to the drug. Because how do our immune

379
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,640
Speaker 1: systems try work? Right? Our immune systems evolved to deal

380
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: with foreign outside invaders, So our immune system doesn't doesn't

381
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: look at incoming cocaine or heroine or nicotine or alcohol

382
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: and say say, oh that's bad. Let's go after that,

383
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,360
Speaker 1: they say, sorry, that's not on our list of suspects.

384
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: We're not gonna go. We're not gonna go arrest the

385
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: right you know. So the idea who are this vaccine is?

386
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: It is it puts those offenders on the on the

387
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 1: suspect list for our immune system and keeps them from

388
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: crossing a very important border, at least in the case

389
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 1: of the heroine. Yeah, the blood brain barrier, because that's

390
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: key here. That will actually block any psychoactive effects. So

391
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: in other words, you're not going to get high. Yeah.

392
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: And what they found in the rats, or what Genda

393
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: said he found is that they would give the rats

394
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: like uh doses, overdosed quantity, right, Yeah, and the rats

395
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 1: would survive when they were vaccinated. So of course it's

396
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: not something you would want to try and human trials,

397
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: but um, but it does lead us to this idea

398
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: that once you take the psychoactive part out, the actual

399
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 1: um blood brain barrier part where it doesn't get into

400
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,719
Speaker 1: your brain and then affect the rest of the system,

401
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: is that you could render this the drug toothless. Yeah,

402
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: And it's it's important to know that this is not

403
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 1: like like a lot of other vaccines It's not a

404
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 1: situation where you'd say, all right, give everybody in the

405
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 1: population the heroin vaccine and then heroin doesn't work on anybody.

406
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: This would be more of a tool to prevent a relapse.

407
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: Really yeah, but again, the problem here is this digma

408
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: because of course the nicotine one has human trials. It's

409
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: brought to market. Let's look at those polite people and

410
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: the TV commercials dealing with their nicotine problems, right, and

411
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: certainly many of our listeners are dealing with nicotine problems.

412
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to cheap in it or anything, but

413
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: it's it's far more socially acceptable. I think of your

414
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: TV version of the guy who's smoking too much, and

415
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: it's just a random guy. It might even be Goofy

416
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: from the Disney cartoons. I finally remember him trying to

417
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: quit smoking on the cartoon. I never saw a Disney

418
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 1: cartoon in which Goofy had to deal with a heroin problem,

419
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: even though that fits the time period right, the forties,

420
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: and you know perfect, I mean, you could see Mickey

421
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: tying his arm off. I mean, we're making light of this,

422
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: but really, I mean, this is this is something that

423
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: I think is very disheartening, especially for Kim d Janda,

424
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 1: who came up with a vaccine in the first place,

425
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: for heroin to stop this spread of AIDS, because of

426
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 1: course the vector here as uh use needles. So I

427
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: think it's got to be uh really just disheartening for

428
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: him to hear from um big farmat there's no market

429
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: for this. There's no market for a heroin vaccine, are

430
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: you kidding? Yeah, it's because again, when you look at

431
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: the huge public health benefit to something like this, it's

432
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: just it's insane. Yeah. And another thing that they said

433
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: on the panel is that this just has to become

434
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: more of the national discussion and that uh that doctors

435
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: need to have medical training on how to talk to

436
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: their patients about addiction, because they say right now that

437
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: they're not trained in that, and that the big joke

438
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: among doctors is that if a patient comes to you

439
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: and says, I drink four drinks a night, you should

440
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: probably double whatever it is that they say, um and

441
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: you and not even really address the problem or the

442
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 1: situation or dig any deeper. Yeah, it doesn't seem like

443
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: anytime you're you're you're dealing with the doctor, it's like

444
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: it's not maybe it's not firmly established in the public

445
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 1: mindset that this is a safe tone and then you

446
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: can actually talk about what you're putting into your body,

447
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: legally or illegally, because it is bottom line essential to

448
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: your health. But you know, I think that if the

449
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: I think that if the medical field approached it in

450
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: a different way, and like, for instance, I went to

451
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: um my doctor and she said, hey, Julia, find these

452
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: tests on you. It looks like you've got some genetic

453
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: predispositions for addiction. I wanted to, you know, just give

454
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: you a heads up or are you in any sort

455
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: of stress loops in your life that you need help

456
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: with or that you're aware of. Then it I know,

457
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: it takes up more time with your doctor, but again

458
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: it's opening up the line of communication and it's taking

459
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: out the stigma because you're talking about it. And if

460
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: this is something that is so pervasive in society, by

461
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: the way, something like all pharmacy suiticals are consumed by

462
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: the US by people in the United States, those are

463
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: a lot of drugs, legal drugs, but still drugs that

464
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: are being being distributed and um and consumed by people.

465
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: So this obviously is is not just a kind of

466
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: aside problem that some people have. You know, I want

467
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: to point out another possible application for the vaccine that

468
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: was brought up the heroin vaccine, is that, you know,

469
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: we were talking about rodents that were given this vaccine,

470
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: how they could take essentially almost like a lethal overdose

471
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: amount of the drug and still be fine. Uh, there's

472
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: a possibility that the vaccine could be used to treat

473
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: people who are who have overdose symptoms. So health care

474
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: professionals pick someone up or arrive at a scene someone's

475
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: clearly overdosing on on heroin, they can apply the vaccine

476
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: as a curative measure. Yeah, so emergency medicine could really

477
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: benefit from this. But again, I just keep pointing to

478
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: this idea that if you start to talk about it,

479
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: if you start to remove the stigma, then you can

480
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: really get to the behavior part of it, and to

481
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: the root causes of it, the depression, anxiety, whatever it

482
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: is that's going on in a person's life, and treat

483
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: the mental health part of this equation, which is so important.

484
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: And it's a shame that the whole topic becomes so

485
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: political as well, because like even a story like we

486
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: mentioned Phillips seem more Hoffman earlier. I looked him up

487
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: again and was looking at some of the various articles

488
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: about him, and you still see this sort of gut

489
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: reaction from from some commentators where some people you know,

490
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: were saying, oh, well, this is you know, horrible. This

491
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: is a very talented man who struggled with it with

492
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: his dan I don't even want to say his demons

493
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: because that personifies it as something supernatural and not something

494
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: that's based in in in physical illness. Um. But the

495
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, this is terrible. We had to

496
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: deal with this disease and it eventually caught up with him.

497
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: And then there's still people who are going to say, oh, well,

498
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: he was just essentially saying, oh he was just weak,

499
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: Oh he was just this is you know, moral failure

500
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: of his character. He was just another you know, Hollywood

501
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: phony or whatnot. You like, you still see that kind

502
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: of attitude, uh, you know, all over the place. Yeah.

503
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: I remember reading an op ed piece and I can't

504
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: remember if it was Slate or Salon, but there was

505
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: this forty five year old dad with a family who

506
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: wrote about, hey, look, this is a reminder of the

507
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: slippery slope when it comes to what you know, he

508
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: would say brain disease is when it comes to addiction,

509
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: because I was someone who was on the edge and

510
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: a very lucky to have not died with my addictions.

511
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: And I'm forty five years old, and I realized that

512
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: there are many triggers that could cause us just says

513
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: it did with Hoffman. So there you have it, a

514
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: little little luxie into the future. Uh, ways that we

515
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: can deal with addiction, the way the way that we

516
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: might deal with addiction. But again, there there has to

517
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: be enough of investment in the public mindset, um to

518
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: really see this. Uh, this heroin vaccine reached the point

519
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: where it's actually affecting world health. Yeah, and in the

520
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: healthcare system there has to be, um, you know, enough

521
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: support and money there. Um. Do you have any ideas

522
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: about this? Do you have any thoughts about the vaccines

523
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: or any of the other treatments in the stigma? If

524
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: you do, please let us know. Yeah. You can find

525
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: us at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That

526
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: is our website, that's the mother ship. That's where you'll

527
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: find every podcast episode we've ever done. You'll find all

528
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: the videos of the blog post. You'll find links out

529
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: to our various social media accounts, including Facebook, Twitter, and Tumbler,

530
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: as well as our YouTube account, mind Stuff Show, where

531
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: we're always rolling out all sorts of really cool video products.

532
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: And let's say you want to get in touch with

533
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: us a more old fashioned way. Ah, well, here's here's something.

534
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: Um it's old fashioned, I suppose. And you also may

535
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: want to update your information here because our email address

536
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 1: has changed and I'm gonna tell you old one. Forget that.

537
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't exist anymore. I don't even remember it. Yeah,

538
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: it is below the mind at how stuff works dot

539
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

540
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: Because it how stuff works dot com. Could you plier