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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And this week alone, President Biden has

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Speaker 1: canceled over one hundred and fifty thousand students debt.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Rise's Mary pat Hector talks to us about gen Z

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Speaker 1: getting out to vote and organizing. Then we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: doctor Ouch Blackstock about her new book, Legacy of Black Physicians,

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Speaker 1: Reckoning with Racism and Medicine. But first we have legendary

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Speaker 1: campaign manager and the author of the Conspiracy to End

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Speaker 1: America Five Ways My old party is driving our democracy

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Speaker 1: to autocracy, The Lincoln Project's owned Stuart Stephens. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: My buddy, Stuart Stephens.

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Speaker 3: Nys for asking me to the party. Great to be here.

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Speaker 2: I was so excited to talk to you because.

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Speaker 1: Last night I was on the eleventh Hour and I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting in the makeup chair and I'm listening to Lawrence's

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Speaker 1: monologue and I don't know You're in Sweden and you

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Speaker 1: can't get MSNBC in Sweden, so you may not have

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Speaker 1: heard it. But this week's Big Brainworms Fiasco has featured

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Speaker 1: Ezracline last week said that even though he loves Joe Biden,

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Speaker 1: that Democrats should kick Joe Biden to the curb. I

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Speaker 1: have talked to everyone I know off the ledge. Everyone

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Speaker 1: I know has then come to me and said, talk

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Speaker 1: me off the ledge, and I've said, you can't kick

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden to the curb. But anyway, one of the

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Speaker 1: brilliant things that Lawrence did last night was he explained

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Speaker 1: just how destructive and how much a broker convention Besides

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Speaker 1: the fact that I think Biden is a great president,

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Speaker 1: besides the fact that I think Biden is going to

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Speaker 1: win maybe by more than a lot of people, besides

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Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, my own personal feelings, the

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Speaker 1: idea of this is so completely insane. And Lawrence did

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Speaker 1: a really great historical analysis of what happens during a

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Speaker 1: broker convention and just how destructive it is. So talk

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Speaker 1: us through this media mailstorm created by and for media.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm fescinated by broker conventions. When I was in

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Speaker 3: film school, I actually wrote a screenplay, shockingly, shockingly, this

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Speaker 3: was never produced about the nineteen twenty four Democratic Convention

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Speaker 3: with Al Smith, which went to like thirty six ballots.

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Speaker 3: You can imagine how the market was just dying to hear.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 3: Great, finally a film about the thirty six ballots. I

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Speaker 3: don't understand this about Democrats, right, and I say that

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Speaker 3: with great love and affection, because Democrats are the only

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Speaker 3: pro democracy party left in America. Why there's any reluctance

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Speaker 3: to get behind their guy? You know? To me, this

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Speaker 3: is just a variation of a couple of years ago

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Speaker 3: when Biden gave what turned out to be a great

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Speaker 3: State of the Union address and Democrats gave not one,

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Speaker 3: but two alternatives. I took an alternative to their own guy.

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Speaker 3: I think what's really lost here is the fact that,

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Speaker 3: you know, Biden has an extraordinarily young administration. You know,

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Speaker 3: he has passed the church. Look at the people who

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Speaker 3: are running the country now compared to who Trump picked,

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Speaker 3: you know, compare Secretary of States. You know, he didn't

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Speaker 3: get a guy in the sixties was running Exxon. He

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Speaker 3: got a young, brilliant guy. And I think that's across

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Speaker 3: the board. I really think that Biden is historically great

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Speaker 3: president domestically and abroad. I find the fact that Democrats

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Speaker 3: are unhappy with him where people are unhappy with him

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Speaker 3: I find that very normal. I mean Americans won't choices,

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean, if he's paid somebody, would you

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Speaker 3: like the choice? No one says well no, or don't.

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Speaker 2: Would you speak a little bit about that?

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Speaker 1: Because I feel like there's a lot of historical president

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Speaker 1: for people being a little irritated with their president.

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Speaker 3: How about that? Another point is in June of nineteen

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Speaker 3: ninety two, Bill Clinton was running third, not second, third,

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Speaker 3: famously on the cover of Time magazine and that X

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Speaker 3: ray photo of why can't we Trust Bill Clinton? And

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Speaker 3: you know, I seem to remember that they played Tales

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Speaker 3: of the Chief, you know, the next year when he

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Speaker 3: was walking into the room. There is something that is

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Speaker 3: very American about wanting choices. There's not a lot of

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Speaker 3: restaurants in Germany or France or Sweden that have like

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Speaker 3: cheesecake factory long menus. You don't walk into the McDonald

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Speaker 3: as they go, well let's sell hear what we're serving today.

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Speaker 3: We got two things. They're really good. It's all about

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Speaker 3: options and how do they sell cars. They never said, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, are just as good as it was last year.

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Speaker 3: I promise you. You know, there always has to be

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Speaker 3: something new. But I think that the numbers of Biden's

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Speaker 3: approval are flawed comparing it to historical precedents. So you have,

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Speaker 3: what over fifty percent of the other party believes that

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden is an illegal president. So think about that.

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Speaker 2: Which is insane.

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Speaker 1: In a normal world, this would not be happening. And

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Speaker 1: it happened because no body ever stood up to Trump.

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Speaker 3: Because the Republican Party went along with it. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: all they had to do was have their com shop

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Speaker 3: put out a statement congratulating the president.

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Speaker 2: Of the leg That's all they would have to do.

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Speaker 3: In the history of defending democracy. That's a pretty low bar.

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Speaker 3: No one was asking him to go charge of beach

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Speaker 3: or take a machine gun nest. They just have their

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Speaker 3: commshop congratulate the president like the United States, and you

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Speaker 3: know only a couple of them did. But you know,

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Speaker 3: once you believe that the president is illegal, what in

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Speaker 3: the world can you tell somebody to make them like

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Speaker 3: that president? Okay, look, I know he stole the light

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Speaker 3: offf but how about that Infrastructure Act. Those people are lost,

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Speaker 3: and I think that they affect those numbers. If I

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Speaker 3: was polling here, I would ever screen that says, do

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Speaker 3: you believe he's legally elect your president. He said no,

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Speaker 3: say thanks very much and just continue the conversation.

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Speaker 1: And those are the mag of faithfulls, and that crew

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Speaker 1: is not going to be won by anyone.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: I saw some very interesting numbers, I thought the other

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Speaker 3: day out of Pennsylvania and New Hampshire, where Biden's approval

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Speaker 3: was thirty eight and he was winning by nine points.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's where we're going to start

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Speaker 3: to see a lot of that. I actually think that

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Speaker 3: there is a very good chance that this could be

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Speaker 3: like nineteen eighty in reverse for the incumbent, you know,

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Speaker 3: a tight race to the middle of October and then

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Speaker 3: the bottom really falls out, you know. I think there's

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Speaker 3: an element to Donald Trump being on trial and four

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Speaker 3: different jurisdictions that is sort of like a guy walking

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Speaker 3: around with a paper bag full of water. I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's going to leak, but if it goes, it's

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Speaker 3: going to go the conventional wisdom of Biden. It's going

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Speaker 3: to come down to four hundred thousand people in a

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Speaker 3: couple of states, and usually the conventional wisdom is right.

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Speaker 3: But if I was placing a bed on it, I

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Speaker 3: would bet that Biden is going to win by a

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Speaker 3: substantially larger margin. Media lest I.

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Speaker 2: Happen to agree with you.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I continue to be

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Speaker 1: not even struck by, but shocked by is the level

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Speaker 1: of unforced errors that this Republican party keeps making. And

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about Alabama, and if so. Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: the biggest hospital in Alabama, a state that has really

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Speaker 1: had trouble attracting medical talent. I think that's the understatement

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Speaker 1: of the year, right, But they have had some problems,

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Speaker 1: you know, attracting guynecologists for obvious reasons.

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Speaker 2: Now they shut down IVF in this.

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Speaker 1: Biggest hospital in Alabama because they're worried about being prosecuted

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Speaker 1: because embryos are people in the state of Alabama. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: but like a Pennsylvania suburban voter who lives on the

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Speaker 1: mainline and wants lower taxes is about to find out

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Speaker 1: that she can't do IVF, listen.

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Speaker 3: I think that it is just a pattern that there

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Speaker 3: are two ways to look at what was going to

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Speaker 3: happen when Republicans went down this Trump path. Either they

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Speaker 3: were going to modulate themselves and decide that they were

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Speaker 3: not that crazy, and it's necessarily just all about campaigning,

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Speaker 3: or it was going to get crazier craze here, and

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Speaker 3: we've obviously seen it's the latter extremist movements go that way.

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Speaker 3: They get in a cycle of purity tests. It happens,

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Speaker 3: happened with the Khmerre rouge, happens with the right card.

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Speaker 3: It just you have to prove that you can be

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Speaker 3: more extreme. That becomes the test. I think that there

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Speaker 3: is a deep misogyny at the heart of this, you know.

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Speaker 3: I thought one of the most extraordinary numbers that come

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Speaker 3: out of the Iowa Caucus was the fact that in

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Speaker 3: the last Des Moines Register poll Mancelter, according to her,

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Speaker 3: sixty eight percent of the Republican Party in Iowa was mail.

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Speaker 3: That's self collecting. It's really important for the Biden campaign

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Speaker 3: to focus on the future and what is it going

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Speaker 3: to mean. So nobody would have believed that you would

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Speaker 3: have someone who was raped and had to go out

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Speaker 3: of state and was prosecuted and they went after the doctor,

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Speaker 3: but that happened. Nobody would have believed what just happened

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Speaker 3: at Alabama, and it's just going to get worse. I mean,

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Speaker 3: the difficulty with the unimaginable. Is it's difficult to manage

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Speaker 3: that is just going to get worse and worse and worse,

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Speaker 3: and there's no moderating force. Nothing inside to Republican Party

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Speaker 3: is going to stand up and say this is too far.

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Speaker 3: But the thing about it, they had this moment Trump

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Speaker 3: inside of a riot of people who came into your

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Speaker 3: workplace and tried to kill you, and you still didn't

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Speaker 3: vote to convict him. Once you're not going tovict somebody

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Speaker 3: that like got people who try to kill you. What

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Speaker 3: do you even think? Well, okay, I think that this

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Speaker 3: is too far. It's really extraordinary. I don't think it's

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Speaker 3: at all where the country is. Look I'm a seventh

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Speaker 3: generation Mississippi and I don't think this is where Mississippi

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Speaker 3: is at all. I think it's a great miscalculation. You know,

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Speaker 3: when Trump tried to frighten suburban voters at the end

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Speaker 3: of the left contane by saying, and he's doing it again,

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Speaker 3: you know that someone non white or a different religion

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Speaker 3: might move in next door. I think most suburban voters

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Speaker 3: I know would go out of their way to show

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Speaker 3: their kids that they're welcoming to this family. It's somewhere

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Speaker 3: the country is hating people. I mean that happens some,

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Speaker 3: but it's not the majority of the country.

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Speaker 2: You talked about polling.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the Biden panic of the last few

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Speaker 1: weeks has been almost exclusively based on polling, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's no other theory of the case. Right, there's no

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Speaker 1: other piece of information like New York three last week,

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Speaker 1: Democrats way overperformed the polls, Like, there's not some piece

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Speaker 1: of information that I'm missing here, right.

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Speaker 3: No, it's a tentativeness about the Democratic Party that I

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Speaker 3: sawn just sort of fascinating. You know. I wrote a

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Speaker 3: piece for the Bullwork right before the twenty EELESSU where

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Speaker 3: I said, you know, my dear dear new Democratic friends

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Speaker 3: walk with swagger. There's more of you than them. You're right,

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Speaker 3: they're wrong, And I think there ought to be a

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Speaker 3: righteous prosecution about this, and I think they ought to

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Speaker 3: go about it with the attitude we are right, and

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden is right, and Joe Biden is doing great things.

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Speaker 3: Embrace that. And I think that there's a case that

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Speaker 3: if Joe Biden was running against pick your favorite governor

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Speaker 3: or Republican camp in Georgia or whatever, I think you

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Speaker 3: beat that person because there's really no policy in the

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Speaker 3: Republican Party. Now, then think about it, and this was

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Speaker 3: really clear in twenty two. What is it you're getting

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Speaker 3: when we vote Republican and Hunter Biden's laptop investigations. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's no policy at all.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk for a minute about Patrick McHenry.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hit on this because I don't

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Speaker 1: think Democrats are spending nearly enough time talking about this.

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Speaker 1: Patrick McHenry was the Speaker pro tem for about five minutes.

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Speaker 1: He's resigning. He's not running again. He's one of the

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Speaker 1: few Republicans who knows what they're doing. Still there, he

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Speaker 1: tells CBS this morning. We went through five choices and

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's the fifth choice. He has not been around

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Speaker 1: leadership decisions. He's had a really tough process. We've thrown

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Speaker 1: him into the deepest end of the pool with the

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Speaker 1: heaviest weights around him. We're trying to teach him how

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Speaker 1: to learn how to swim. It's been a really rough

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Speaker 1: couple of months.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, being Speaker of the House is turning out like

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Speaker 3: the third person in ol Kaeda. You know, you just

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Speaker 3: really she just really don't want to be that person.

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Speaker 3: There's gonna be a drone over your head pretty quickly.

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Speaker 3: It's really amazing. I mean, I think you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're applying for a job, you would not put it

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Speaker 3: on your resume if you have been speaker at this point.

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Speaker 3: It's because they're not a governing party. So you know,

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Speaker 3: normally you can unify elements of your party to disagree

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Speaker 3: with you based upon certain fundamental principles. You can get

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Speaker 3: up there and say, look, we don't agree on this

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Speaker 3: or that, but here are some big issues we agree on.

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Speaker 3: And there really aren't those big issues in the Republican

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Speaker 3: Party except they would like to be in power. And

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Speaker 3: you take some sad example of humanity like Lindsey Graham. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he goes to Ukraine and swears that he'll support Ukraine forever,

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Speaker 3: and here he votes against Ukraine funding. If you joined

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Speaker 3: the party that was defined by Ronald Reagan standing in

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Speaker 3: front of the Berlin Wall and saying, mister gorvig trofth

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Speaker 3: tear down this wall and you end is now the

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Speaker 3: pro Putin Party, it is the most disconcerting, strange sensation.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Think we talk enough about the simple pack pattern here.

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Speaker 3: We know the Russians wanted Donald Trump to win, we

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Speaker 3: know he helped him win. What did they get? Turns

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Speaker 3: out they got a lot and they may very well

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Speaker 3: get a victory over Ukraine because of that. It's the

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Speaker 3: most successful covert operation in history. That has to be

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Speaker 3: And I think these next ten days or so are

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Speaker 3: going to have generational effects. I think in five years,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna be able to get a car in

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Speaker 3: Paris and drive to Warsaw without crossing some really nasty borders,

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Speaker 3: I think that's going to be decided probably in the

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Speaker 3: next ten days.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I've not heard someone explain the war in Ukraine

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Speaker 1: like that. Save a tiny bit more on that, will you.

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Speaker 3: Well, I we know what Putin wants. He wants to

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Speaker 3: reconquer tote the Soviet Union. We know what the Soviet

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Speaker 3: Union was, we know how he operates. He will have

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Speaker 3: a small incursion there NATO to fight, So then it'll

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Speaker 3: be a question is NATO really going to fight over

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Speaker 3: ten square miles? And that'll be an interesting question. And

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Speaker 3: Russia now is on a war footing, unlike any European

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Speaker 3: country has been since Germany re armed and the thirties

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Speaker 3: and there has been a reluctance to admit it. People

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Speaker 3: don't graft the fact the United States military budget it's

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Speaker 3: larger than the next non countries combined. I mean, that

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Speaker 3: is just such a staggering number. And those are some

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Speaker 3: awfully big countries. We are living in a Pax Americana

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Speaker 3: and is that going to continue? And we've sort of

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Speaker 3: become like third generation rich kids. We've sort of forgotten

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Speaker 3: what it was like to earn this and this is

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Speaker 3: this is what kills me about these Republicans. There air

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Speaker 3: the greatest generator. They were handed this legacy one a

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Speaker 3: great unimaginable cost. And now, well, just think that there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of data Americans buried across Europe and

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Speaker 3: if they could come back to life and vote whether

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Speaker 3: or not they were going to support Ukraine? Does anybody

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Speaker 3: think that they would vote for Putin? And those are

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Speaker 3: the people that earned the freedom. And we have a

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Speaker 3: European democracy that is engaged in the largest land war

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Speaker 3: since World War Two, and the Republican Party doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to support it. It's a leadership because of Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: a guy who was elected with Putin's hill. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you can't see our history's going to write that

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Speaker 3: it's just unromaginable. Hopefully it's still going to pass. I

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Speaker 3: accept what everyone says. It seems to know a lot

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Speaker 3: about the House, and if you put it up for vote,

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Speaker 3: it will pass. I have to ask yourself, how many

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Speaker 3: innocent Ukrainian men women in Shortern, how many brave Ukrainian

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Speaker 3: fighters have to die for a guy from Shreef Ports

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Speaker 3: who's an accidental speaker's concerce.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Stuart Stevens please come back.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks for asking me. I love the show.

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Speaker 2: Did you know?

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson and I are bringing together some friends for

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Speaker 1: a general election kickoff party at City Winery in New

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Speaker 1: York on March sixth. We're going to be chatting right

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Speaker 1: after Super Tuesday about what's going on, and it is

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Speaker 1: going to probably be the one fun night for the

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Speaker 1: next eighty days. If you're in the New York area,

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Speaker 1: please come by and join us. You can go to

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Speaker 1: City Winery's website and grab a ticket.

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Speaker 2: Mary pat Hector is the CEO of Rise.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Mary Pat.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much, Molly. I'm super excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: I really think that elections are won by young activists

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Speaker 1: who get out there and organize. And so when I

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Speaker 1: heard you speak a couple months ago, I thought, we

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Speaker 1: got to get Mary Pat on this podcast so she

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Speaker 1: can talk about all of the organized thing she's doing.

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Speaker 2: So Mary Pat tell us about Rise Sure Well.

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Speaker 5: Rise is a youth and student center organization that focuses

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Speaker 5: on building student political power. Young voters are some of

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Speaker 5: the more difficult voters to touch and reach, but we've

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Speaker 5: been able to prove that when you organize three hundred

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Speaker 5: and sixty five days a year on these college campuses

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Speaker 5: and but some trusted messengers, that you can truly be

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Speaker 5: successful in mobilizing these voters. And this year, in twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty four, literally forty one million gen z years between

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Speaker 5: the ages of eighteen and twenty seven will vote for

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Speaker 5: the first time for the first time in our country's history.

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Speaker 5: Nearly forty nine percent of the countries are electric under

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Speaker 5: the age of forty five years old. Young voters have extreme,

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Speaker 5: extreme power, but it's all about organizations and individuals who

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Speaker 5: really value them and prioritize reaching out to them to

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Speaker 5: exercise their political agency and utilize the power that they have.

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Speaker 5: And that's what we do at RISE.

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Speaker 1: So explain us how you started Rise and where you

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Speaker 1: started Rise and where Rise is now and where Rise

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Speaker 1: is going.

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Speaker 5: Sure. So Rise was actually founded by Maxwell Lubin in

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Speaker 5: California in twenty seventeen as an organizing that really advocated

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Speaker 5: for students' access to college and college affordability. Max realized

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Speaker 5: that in order to influence issues that young people care about,

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Speaker 5: it's really about building youth political power student political power

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Speaker 5: to really influence policies that directly impact young people around

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Speaker 5: those issues like college affordability. You know, students basic needs

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Speaker 5: and issues that they were fighting were in California, and

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Speaker 5: they ended up expanding the organization to Michigan and Wisconsin

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Speaker 5: and they were able to see higher education policies passed

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Speaker 5: and they were organizing in those particular states, and then

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Speaker 5: we ended up expanding to places like Georgia and now

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Speaker 5: we're in eight states collectively doing the work. And I

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Speaker 5: actually began my organizing journey with the organization back in

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Speaker 5: twenty eighteen when I was a student organizer at Welma College,

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Speaker 5: organizing around college affordability at HBCUs and you know, student

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Speaker 5: debt relief and food access and leading hunger strikes on

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Speaker 5: my college campus, and I remained involved in the organization

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Speaker 5: upon graduation. I became the Georgia State Organizing Director, where

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Speaker 5: we led the organization's largest FOTEM campaign in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty and twenty twenty two, and I ended

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Speaker 5: up continuing to work within the organization. I became the

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Speaker 5: CEO eight months ago. We're coming up on my one

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Speaker 5: year anniversary as the CEO of the organization, but I've

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Speaker 5: been immenisely proud to see the organization grow since I've

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Speaker 5: been working with RISE since twenty eighteen two.

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Speaker 1: Wow explained to us a little bit about the sort

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Speaker 1: of theory of the case, how it works. I have

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Speaker 1: a college kid, so I know a little bit about

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Speaker 1: how hard it is to get them to vote.

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Speaker 5: I think oftentimes when young people think about voting, they

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Speaker 5: immediately just think about the candidates. What we're seeing with

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Speaker 5: gen z ors specifically, is that they're not really moved

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Speaker 5: by the two party system, right. They're not impressed with

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Speaker 5: either of these candidates. I mean they feel like, you know,

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Speaker 5: they're forced to choose between the candidates, and with us

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Speaker 5: as an organization, we're not mobilizing student voters around candidates

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Speaker 5: we're mobilizing student voters around the things that they care about.

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Speaker 5: We're mobilizing them around things like student debt relief. We're

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Speaker 5: organizing around issues that they care about like college affordability.

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Speaker 5: And some of our partner organizations that are also successful

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Speaker 5: in this wh're disorganizing around climate change. They do this

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Speaker 5: organizing around, you know, reproductive justice. And we also know

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Speaker 5: that the issues that we talk to students about in

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Speaker 5: Georgia might kind of differ around the issues that we

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Speaker 5: talk to student on the ground in Wisconsin. So we

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Speaker 5: really adjust, but we center the issues that young people

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Speaker 5: care about, and beyond sending the issues that they care about,

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Speaker 5: we also center the fact that we are trusted messengers

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Speaker 5: on the campuses where we're mobilizing because they see us

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Speaker 5: on their campus three hundred and sixty five days a year. Oftentimes,

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Speaker 5: what happens is civic organizations and campaigns show up two

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Speaker 5: to three months before an election and they're like, we

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Speaker 5: want your vote. Well, the truth is gen zers are

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Speaker 5: not as trusting, right, Like they're like, I don't know you.

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Speaker 5: You showed up two months before this election and you're

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Speaker 5: only just like here to pretty much ask for my

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Speaker 5: vote and you haven't shown me that you value me

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Speaker 5: as a person or that you really align with me

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Speaker 5: on my values. So gen Zers value individuals that they

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Speaker 5: see in community with them through sixty five, which is

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Speaker 5: also why we stress the importance of organizing three sixty five,

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Speaker 5: especially with such a difficult And I am a gen

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Speaker 5: Z voter voter myself, so I understand this a difficult base.

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Speaker 5: Right It's very hard to gain the trust of gen

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Speaker 5: Z voters.

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Speaker 1: And it's not exclusive to gen Z. I mean, young

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Speaker 1: people have always been hard to get to turn out.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely. What I will say is I would love to

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Speaker 5: give them credit. Young voters have been showing up for

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Speaker 5: the past two cycles like never before, especially in moments

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Speaker 5: and times when we really needed them. But right now

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four, there is so much going on,

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Speaker 5: so many issues and problems that young people internally are

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Speaker 5: not happy about. They're not happy about a lot of

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Speaker 5: things that they felt were promised that didn't necessarily happen,

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Speaker 5: a lot of issues going around.

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Speaker 1: In the world.

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Speaker 5: Young people are just be us censoring the issues, is

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Speaker 5: what we're noticing are what's most resonating with them right now.

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Speaker 5: I'm hopeful that with this opportunity and the power that

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Speaker 5: they have in twenty twenty four, they will show up.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about a student debt really, because that is

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Speaker 1: something where the Biden administration did try to cancel student debt.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court, in its inherent conservativeness, kicked it out.

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Speaker 1: Now Biden is going program by program trying to forgive debt.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday was a huge victory with that. Are people hearing

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Speaker 1: about that and are you able to transmit that to them?

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Speaker 1: And is it making any kind of inroads there?

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Speaker 5: We are in the need to you know, educate voters

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Speaker 5: on you know, the things that are happening on the ground.

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Speaker 5: I think, you know, people are here. You know, Biden

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Speaker 5: approves one point two million in luve forgiveness and they

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Speaker 5: they're like, oh, well, you know, I still have by loans.

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Speaker 5: But the reason being is because of course, like you mentioned,

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Speaker 5: the Supreme Court issues around reproductive justice that have been

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00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 5: rolled back in this administration are not due to Biden's

435
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 5: you know doing or the fact that we weren't able

436
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 5: to get student debt forgiveness is not his faut I

437
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 5: think oftentimes, and that's the reason why it's important to

438
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 5: have trust The messages on the ground to like debunk

439
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 5: a lot of disinformation that you see on things like

440
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 5: TikTok and Instagram, and you know, have these things come

441
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,479
Speaker 5: from people that people trust on these campuses are amongst

442
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 5: the group of individuals because you know, the work that

443
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 5: Biden is doing is not trickering down to those at

444
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 5: the margin or those that need to hear it the most.

445
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 5: And then beyond Biden proposing student debt relief in it

446
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 5: being striggened down by the Supreme Court and even what

447
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 5: he did recently, a lot of people don't know that.

448
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 5: Right now, the US Department of Education has really introduced

449
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 5: a plan for debt relief for borrowers who are experiencing hardship,

450
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 5: which is a lot like almost you know, providing in

451
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 5: the debt relief because many borrowers have not been able

452
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 5: to literally over half of the US borrows have not

453
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 5: been able to make payments on their student loans since October,

454
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 5: when you know we began repayment and so through negotiated

455
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 5: role making, which is happening right now, Secretary of Education

456
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 5: in Cardonia and his team have pretty much taken the

457
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 5: next steps to say, hey, we want to provide debt

458
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 5: relief to student loans borrowers experiencing hardships. And what that

459
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 5: means is basically, if that is passed and the conversation

460
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 5: will actually take place today, if the Department of Education,

461
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 5: through this process of negotiated role making, it's provided the

462
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 5: opportunity to prov buy debt relief for borrows experience hardship,

463
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 5: more borrowers will be I think a lot of people

464
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 5: who feel that in Biden's recent student debt relief moves

465
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 5: just didn't impact people because it was for people with

466
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 5: balances under twenty thousand dollars. Typically, Americans who really need

467
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 5: this debt relief are they're in student loan debt way

468
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 5: more than twenty to forty thousand dollars worth of student loan.

469
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 5: That also individuals who have been making consecutive payments for

470
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 5: ten years, you know, the people who are really feeling

471
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 5: this debt and it's directly impacting their ability to buy

472
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 5: homes to take care of their families. And they're individuals

473
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 5: that have not been able to make ten year consecutive payments.

474
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 5: And so the Americans at the margins who you know,

475
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 5: really need this relief have not been able to get

476
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 5: They don't understand that the President can only do what

477
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 5: he can do under the circumstances of the Supreme Court,

478
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 5: but we are hopeful that President Cardonia's requests through the

479
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 5: negotiated rolemaking process, will be able to support and provide

480
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 5: immediate relief for most Americans.

481
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: To me about the importance of historically black colleges and universities,

482
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: I know that the Vice president has been coming and

483
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: speaking there. I've seen videos of people being very excited

484
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: to see her. We don't see a ton of reporting

485
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: about that. I'm just curious if you could talk about

486
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: is the vice president connecting with young people?

487
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 5: Well, one I did attend a historically black college university

488
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 5: in Atlanta, Georgia called Spelman College, and the Vice president

489
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 5: herself also did attend an HBCU and Washington, d C.

490
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 5: Called Coward University. I do believe that the Vice president

491
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 5: has been working to kind of be in front of

492
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: the young people. But I think the real point is

493
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 5: not about the vice president or the vice president necessarily

494
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 5: just continue to be around young people. Because it's February

495
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty four, so anything that they decided to

496
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 5: do on many college campuses at this point with a

497
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 5: little perform. I think it should be about them focusing

498
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 5: on you know, in which they can do whatever they

499
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 5: can do to complete or focus on achieving some of

500
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 5: the promises that they made in twenty twenty in twenty

501
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 5: twenty four, and being very strategic about just messaging. Again,

502
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 5: Like even with the debt relief, the administration, despite what

503
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: took place with the Supreme Court, has been very very

504
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 5: adamant we're doing all that we can amongst our base

505
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 5: to just educate them on what has been done, because

506
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 5: a lot has been done, but the administration has had

507
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 5: a very difficult problem with distanging. The previous administration was

508
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 5: very strategic in marketing and like made sure, you know,

509
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: their base always knew what it was that they were doing,

510
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 5: how they did it in any time they made a

511
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 5: move the world to do about it, and I've seen

512
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 5: the current administration kind of should have been taking the

513
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 5: same approach. It it has to. Really the work is

514
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 5: relying on the backs of people on the ground, like

515
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 5: us at Rise, just making sure that voters are educated

516
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 5: on you know, things that have been taking place or

517
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 5: things that had not been taken in place, and providing

518
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 5: voters with ac information and not disinformation. That they're finding

519
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: on Twitter and well x and TikTok right and ensuring that,

520
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 5: you know, they're also provided the needed resources that they

521
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 5: need to show up and vote in twenty twenty four.

522
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: So you can give money to Rise, and what will

523
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: Rise do with the money?

524
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Rise in a student organizing organization. We organize student

525
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 5: organizers three hundred and sixty five days a year, We

526
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 5: register voters three hundred and sixty five days a year,

527
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 5: We build our base. So the idea is that our

528
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 5: student organizers are supporting students now and like making plans

529
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 5: to vote leading up to some of our primaries and

530
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 5: leading up to the twenty twenty four election, that they

531
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 5: are reaching out to those voters three to five times

532
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 5: leading up into their upcoming elections, making sure that they,

533
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: you know, are making a voter plan, making sure that

534
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 5: they have a ride to the polls if they don't,

535
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 5: you know, providing them with resources to get to the

536
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 5: polls on election day. Any student organizers in twenty twenty

537
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 5: most of our organizing was virtual. But what we saw

538
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty two was that a lot of young

539
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 5: people were not adequately trained or prepared to do a

540
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 5: lot of field organizing our work. So our organization also

541
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 5: spends a good time and training people to be the

542
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 5: trusted messengers that we need on our college campuses but

543
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 5: also directly in our communities. So we're training them on

544
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 5: how to be deep canvassers. We're training them on how

545
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 5: to adequately look up proper information to combat disinformation happening

546
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 5: among this very sensitive group. And what I mean by

547
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 5: sensitive is it's very easy for young people to be

548
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: provided with disinformation based off of BAI and you know,

549
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 5: social media. So ensuring that they're able to train to

550
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 5: effectively look up information, search information, and just fatcheck as

551
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 5: well as consecutively being on these college campuses and in

552
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 5: these communities, knocking on these doors and doing the work

553
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 5: that we need them to do to fill our program

554
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 5: at RISE, but also for some of the work that

555
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 5: some of our harder organizations they're doing across the state.

556
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 5: Because what we for sure is that while young people

557
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 5: are moved by the issues, you know, all of them

558
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 5: you know that we train, may not be passionate about

559
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 5: student debt or you know, college affordability. Some of them

560
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 5: may be passionate about reproductive rights. And so connecting them

561
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 5: with organizations that they are, you know, passionate about work,

562
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 5: you know, working with leading up into the twenty twenty

563
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 5: four election and supporting mobilizing student voters in that capacity.

564
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 5: So beyond doing our own build program, really just focusing

565
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 5: on training the next generation of civic leaders going into

566
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four and even beyond this, you know that

567
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 5: is also initiative that we do three hundred and sixty

568
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 5: five days a year. But here in twenty twenty four,

569
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 5: our focus is like a registering fifty thousand student voters

570
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 5: and our eight core city mobilizing over two hundred and

571
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 5: fifty students through supporting them and making a voter plan

572
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 5: going into the twenty twenty four election, and knocking on

573
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 5: over three hundred thousand doors of young people between the

574
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 5: ages of eighteen and twenty nine and touching over a

575
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 5: million year loaders this year.

576
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: And what states are you in right now and what

577
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: states do you want to expand to?

578
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, so right now we are in all of the

579
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 5: states that we were looking to expand to in twenty

580
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 5: twenty four. We have officially been able to do what

581
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 5: the exception was working on California right now, but we

582
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 5: are in Arizona. We are in Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Nevada,

583
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 5: in Wisconsin, and we're working on expanding fully into California.

584
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 2: So great. Thank you so much, Mary pat for joining us.

585
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having us on and allowing

586
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 5: me to talk a little bit more about our organization

587
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 5: and the importance of lebalizing the youth book this year.

588
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Doctor Ouch Blackstock is a physician and author of Legacy,

589
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: a Black Physician Reckons with Racism and Medicine. Welcome to

590
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: Fast Politics, doctor Blackstock.

591
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me.

592
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: Talk to us about your book.

593
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: It's called Legacy, and why you decided to write this book.

594
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, so excited to talk about legacy. So the full

595
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 4: title is Legacy of Black Physician Reckons with Racism in Medicine.

596
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 4: And the title actually has a double meaning. One it's

597
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 4: about the legacy of racism in medicine. And then the

598
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 4: other meaning is I am a second generation black woman physician.

599
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 4: My twin sister and I were the first black mother

600
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: daughter legacy from Harvard Medical School.

601
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: Cool.

602
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so your mother was a doctor too. Yeah, My

603
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 4: mother's a doctor. Born and raised in Brooklyn, New York,

604
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 4: in very different settings than I did. Grew up in poverty,

605
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 4: first person in her family go to college, then went

606
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 4: I showed to Brooklyn College, then went to medical school

607
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: at Harvard, and came back to her central Brooklyn neighborhood

608
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: to practice for many, many years. And that was the

609
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 4: influence that both my twin sister, Oni, who's also a physician,

610
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 4: and I had growing up. I thought that most physicians

611
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: were black women, and I didn't recognize until I was

612
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 4: older that we only.

613
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 5: Represent about three percent of all physicians.

614
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: This is a topic that I try to talk about

615
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: as much as humanly possible, despite the fact that these are.

616
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: Not my will houses.

617
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: It seems to me one of the most upsetting things

618
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: in American life right now is how incredibly racist our

619
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: medical system is. And so I was hoping you could

620
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: talk a little bit for people who are not quite

621
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: as read in, if you could just sort of paint

622
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: the scene and explain a little bit, like, you know,

623
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: what the statistics are and how crushing and deeply troubling

624
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: they are.

625
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

626
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: No, absolutely, And that's actually why I wrote the book.

627
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 4: I wrote the book because I really wanted to explain

628
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: for readers why in twenty twenty four you know, we're

629
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 4: seeing you know, even myself, as a black woman with

630
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 4: a Harvard undergrad and medical school degree, I fill five

631
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 4: times more likely to die of pregnancy related complications than

632
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: my white peers. In the US, the birthing complication rate

633
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 4: for black people is three to four times that higher

634
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: than for other people. And these are just high rates

635
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: overall compared to other high incomnations, even for white people

636
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: in the country, but especially bad for black people and

637
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 4: people of color. And we see that with infant mortality,

638
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 4: we see that with life expectancy. So we are seeing

639
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: all of this. Despite advances in innovation, technology, and research,

640
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 4: we're seeing actual worsening of health outcomes along the racial lines.

641
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: I was hoping you could talk a little bit about

642
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: life expectancy because that is one of the most shocking revelations.

643
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it is so shocking because life expectancy

644
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 4: essentially is that metric that tells you how healthy a

645
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: country is. We are not doing well. This country is

646
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: not doing well overall. And we actually saw when the

647
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 4: pandemic started, the life expectancy drop and it dropped for

648
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 4: even other hunt income nations, but it hasn't bounced back

649
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 4: for the US. Like it has for those other countries,

650
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: and actually it continues to drop, and it drops for

651
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 4: all racial demographic groups. You know, we have some of

652
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 4: the highest overdose rates, the highest suicide rates, highest rates

653
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 4: of product disease. We have the lowest professional health professional

654
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 4: to provider ratio, Like we don't have enough health professionals

655
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 4: the care of the patients. There's a shortage of primary

656
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 4: care physicians in this country. Nurses are burning out. So

657
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: I would say, like our healthcare system is absolutely in crisis,

658
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 4: and the pandemic revealed that. But I think also what

659
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,479
Speaker 4: we're seeing is this is a result of a nation

660
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: where so many people are still uninsured and underinsured. There's

661
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: huge income inequality, and like we're seeing this in these numbers,

662
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 4: like these very dismal numbers for the US.

663
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: So we had a guy called John Burns Murdoch on

664
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: this podcast he writes for the Ft and he was

665
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: talking about how in America at every age, you're more

666
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: likely to die than you are in Europe.

667
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: But as a black person you're even more likely to die.

668
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 5: It's even worse.

669
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 4: And we saw these, you know, they call it age

670
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: adjusted mortality ratios, Like we saw this like during the pandemic.

671
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 4: We saw that black people were dying in the pandemic

672
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 4: much much younger ages than white people were, Like, we

673
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: were dying at rates like that white people tend to

674
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 4: twenty years older than us. We're dying at No, it

675
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 4: wasn't because of like the fact that our rates is black.

676
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 4: It was because there are many different factors all related

677
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 4: to living under and with interpersonal and systemic racism that

678
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 4: essentially ages our bodies. Like there is something called weathering,

679
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 4: which Arleen and Gerontomous, the public health researcher, she coined

680
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 4: that term, which essentially says that you know, under any

681
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 4: sort of stress, whether it's poverty, racism, your body kind

682
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: of wears down and wears down much much earlier you're

683
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: was susceptible to developing different diseases. And so that is

684
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 4: what we saw literally happened in the pandemic, and that's

685
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 4: why you know, we're feel like we're definitely talking more

686
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 4: about these issues now than we were before. But black

687
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 4: and brown people were still dying before. It's just worse now.

688
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: There's a problem with outside stressors, but there's also the

689
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: problem with racist doctors, right, and not just racist doctors,

690
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: but also like a system that is innately racist.

691
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what I write about in the books.

692
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 4: So it's like it comes from all different angles. It

693
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 4: comes from like, you know, the everyday stresses that you

694
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 4: go through life, but it also comes from the fact

695
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 4: that our communities have been deprived of resources because of

696
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: discredatory housing policies like redlining. But then it's what happens

697
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: when we interface with healthcare professionals in a healthcare setting.

698
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 4: And what I'm going to say is that, you know,

699
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: I think that no doctor or health professionals would say,

700
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 4: you know, I treat my patients differently, But the fact

701
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 4: is is that we're seeing that they are more likely

702
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,760
Speaker 4: not to live in two black patients. You know, Serena

703
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 4: Williams talks about her experience with a blood clot that

704
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 4: even the greatest athlete of all time has to deal

705
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 4: with health professionals not listening to her. If that happens

706
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 4: to her, you know what happens to the average black patients.

707
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: But also all that to say is that even myself,

708
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 4: I was educated and trained in the Western biomedical model,

709
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 4: and this is a model that has you know, messaging

710
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 4: foundations that are deeply rooted in the history of this country,

711
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 4: and that is a history of slavery, a history that

712
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 4: has really dehumanized black people and black bodies. So a

713
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 4: lot of these myths get perpetuated in our medical education,

714
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 4: like you know, for example, kidney function. I was taught

715
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 4: that black people have different kidney function like normal values

716
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 4: than non black people. Most medical students and physicians were

717
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: taught this based on a myth that black people had

718
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: more muscle mass and that correlated with kidney function. Do

719
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 4: you know what that has done? That has actually led

720
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 4: to deferred care, specialty care for black people.

721
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 5: To get kidneys or to go on kidney transplant lits.

722
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 2: And it's not true. It's based on racis lies.

723
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

724
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's the problem is is that that influences

725
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 4: how health professionals, whether they intended or not, and mostly

726
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 4: don't intend to okaying like most of roth, I want

727
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 4: to keep my patients well. But the fact is is

728
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 4: that if you've been trained in these institutions like I

729
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 4: have been. You know, I'm not excluding myself.

730
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: And you're talking about Harvard here, We're not talking about

731
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: like Podunk.

732
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 4: You know, you went to Heart right, I did, And

733
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 4: I talk in the book I talk in a legacy

734
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: about all these educational gaps, you know, I mean yet

735
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 4: I had a great, a great education, but there are

736
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 4: all these things I had to unlearn and relearn as

737
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,959
Speaker 4: a practicing physician, and pieces of history that I never

738
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 4: ever ever learned about that totally I should have learned

739
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 4: about that should have impacted how I cared for patients.

740
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: So interesting, We covered this really great documentary about these

741
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 1: fathers and daughters who had the mothers had died black women,

742
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: and the fathers had been left to raise these children.

743
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: They had died because of racism and medicine. Right, they

744
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,919
Speaker 1: hadn't gone treated, they hadn't gone you know, they died

745
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: of things that were absolutely preventable. This is much more

746
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: of a story than it has covered us.

747
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely.

748
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 4: And I think the other piece of it, like you know,

749
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 4: like for example, lets people know about they call it

750
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 4: casually Tiskidi Ciplet study, but it's actually it actually the

751
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 4: US Public Health Service Study on the Untreated Negro Male

752
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 4: with Zippilid. Like this was a study that was the

753
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 4: still uitated, developed orchestrated by our government from nineteen thirty

754
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: two to nineteen seventy two.

755
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 5: You know, and men living in rural Alabama.

756
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 4: And the only reason that it was actually stopped in

757
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy two was because of black ethicaneologists found out

758
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 4: about it and reported to the so Sociated Press. But

759
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 4: all I to say is that, like that, it's one

760
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 4: of unfortunately many many instances of medical racism, of ways

761
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 4: that black communities have been exploited and experimented on, so that,

762
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 4: you know, when the pandemic hit, you know, a few

763
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 4: years ago, first people were saying, oh, black people had

764
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 4: medical mistrusts, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait a minute,

765
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 4: that's not don't put it on the individual. Our institutions

766
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 4: have proven themselves untrustworthy towards our communities and really have

767
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 4: to earn and engender our trusts.

768
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 5: So because of this history, and that's you know, that's

769
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 5: only one story of many many stories.

770
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So how do you undo something this big?

771
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: I know, I know it, and it seems so overwhelming

772
00:40:58,719 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: to people.

773
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: And actually, the final chapter of my book, which is

774
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 4: sort of like it's like a memoir, but it's also

775
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 4: call to action. The final chapter is truly a call

776
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 4: to action of different groups of medical schools to rethink

777
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 4: and hold themselves accountable. For how they're training our future

778
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 4: physicians and to make sure they are training them to

779
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 4: care for diverse patient population that we have in this

780
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: country and to do so equitably.

781
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 5: For hospital systems.

782
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 4: To think about how they're reinforcing racism, one by using

783
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 4: these metrics that are deeply rooted in myths about racist

784
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 4: myths about black people, like kidney function. But also look

785
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 4: at how are their discrepancies between how people are prescribing

786
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 4: or health professionals are prescribing opioids or pain medications like

787
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 4: those things. Those are structured processes that they can keep

788
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 4: track of to see our patients being treated differently. I

789
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 4: also say for policy makers, help is not just about

790
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 4: what happens in healthcare. We need to think about help

791
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: and all policies. So again, we are one of the

792
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 4: only high income countries that do not have universal health care.

793
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 4: That is a major major issue. We don't have paid

794
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 4: sick and family leave. That's another major issue. People come

795
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 4: to work sick people. During the pandemic, we knew that

796
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 4: low income service workers were coming to work sick and

797
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 4: they were more likely to be exposed to the virus.

798
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 4: So we need to think more holistically about what health

799
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 4: looks like. And also we know that black communities, because

800
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 4: of federal policies like red lighting, like the GI Bill,

801
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 4: have left our community so deprived of resources, of wealth

802
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 4: and what it looks like. It's for policy makers to

803
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: make an investment in the pipeline of black health professionals

804
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: and physicians, but also restore black communities to know the

805
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 4: dignity that they need.

806
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: For people to be healthy.

807
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 4: People need jobs, they need quality education, you know, they

808
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 4: need just like anyone else needs, so that they're not

809
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 4: dying these premature lives.

810
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 5: It's very unfair.

811
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: Do you think that this is also a problem that

812
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: can be solved by having more black doctors.

813
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 4: I don't think it's just black doctors. I mean, you know,

814
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: I talk about in the book How They Were report

815
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 4: put a flex and report in nineteen ten that was

816
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 4: commissioned by American Medical Association that lets the closure of

817
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 4: five out of seven of those medical schools and leaving

818
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 4: behind leg Howard and Henry which would have trade between

819
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 4: twenty five and thirty five thousand black positions. So yes,

820
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 4: that has had a detrimental impact on the health of

821
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 4: our communities. Absolutely, But the other piece of it is

822
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 4: that the way that we live in this country as

823
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 4: Black Americans is very stressful. Like it's not that being

824
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 4: black makes you sick, it's like living as a Black

825
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 4: American makes you sick. Having to deal with interpersonal racism,

826
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 4: having to deal with the fact that you go to

827
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 4: a bank, you're less likely to be approved for a mortgage.

828
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

829
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like like all of that, all of that adds

830
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 4: up and causes like this, where a tear on the

831
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 4: body that makes us thick, or even the lack of

832
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 4: access to healthy foods, the fact that many of our

833
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: communities are in food deserts because grocery stores don't want

834
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 4: to come there. So there are all of these reasons

835
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 4: that we need to look at, both not just interpersonally,

836
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: but systemically. Like that's my call to actually think about

837
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 4: these issues systemically if we want to improve the health

838
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 4: of black people.

839
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: But it does seem like government could absolutely, I mean

840
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: certainly not fix this, but work to fix it.

841
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Molly. Absolutely.

842
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 4: And in my call to action, I have a special

843
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: section for policymakers, and I are elected, I said, this

844
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 4: is your responsibility. You have to invest with private institutions

845
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: like academic medical centers in the pipeline of black health professionals.

846
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 5: You have to also think about what does community look

847
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 5: like in.

848
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 4: Terms of programs for increased home ownership among black people,

849
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 4: because we know that's one way that people generate well

850
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,959
Speaker 4: b through home ownership, or looking at training community health

851
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 4: workers who are actually late health professionals that are from

852
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 4: the communities, but who educate the communities about different prevented

853
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 4: measures or give vaccines. They use them in sub Saharan

854
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 4: African country, so well they can use them here, but

855
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 4: that skill is not valued. And I think also we

856
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 4: need to look at what's happening locally and hyperlocally. There

857
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 4: are a lot of really great community led efforts that

858
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 4: address health, like doulahs and birthing centers and organizations that

859
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 4: are trying to increase the canopy, so the amount of

860
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 4: green space and trees in our neighborhood. Because the climate

861
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: crisis is actually impacting Black communities more so because of

862
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 4: the legacy of redlining, we have left trees and so

863
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 4: our neighborhoods are actually a few degrees higher than others neighborhoods,

864
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 4: and that leads to exacerbation of asthma attack that leads

865
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 4: to pre term births like it has health consequences. So

866
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: those are all areas that policymakers can get involved in

867
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 4: at a local level.

868
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 2: I think this is such an important point.

869
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: This seems like the kind of thing where if government

870
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: were at all interested. Obviously there certainly have been some inroads,

871
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: but if we had a federal government that was committed

872
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: to fixing this, they could get us there.

873
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 5: Oh absolutely.

874
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: You know, it happens in some parts of the country

875
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 4: more than others. I'm worried about the obviously the Southeast

876
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: because actually that's where the largest percentage of black people

877
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 4: live in the Southeast. So what states are those? So

878
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 4: I'm worried about Florida. I worried about Louisiana. I worried

879
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 4: about Alabama, Mississippi. Oh, those last three that I name

880
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 4: have like the very worst health outcomes, right, and we

881
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 4: know that because of you know, the road decision. We

882
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 4: know that those places that are maternity deserts. Health professionals

883
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 4: have left areas that we're getting Titled ten funding, you

884
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 4: know that had been cut, not cut, but had been compromised.

885
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 4: People left their jobs. Title ten providers left their jobs.

886
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 4: They were counseling around STIs they were providing contraception, they

887
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 4: were doing cancer screenings, and so we actually are making

888
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 4: those areas actually thicker because they're going to have fewer

889
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 4: and fewer health professionals to work with patients.

890
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Can you just two seconds on Medicare expansion.

891
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, medic Medicaid expansion.

892
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeh, Medicaid expansion.

893
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 4: Sorry, yes, So that is so important, and we've actually

894
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 4: seen over the last few years in those states where

895
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 4: Medicaid was expanded, people do better in the pandemic people.

896
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 4: That's that things actually did better because they had health insurance.

897
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 4: But there are those still, I don't know they're nine

898
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 4: or ten of those states that still refuse to expand.

899
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: Red states with Republican governors that refuse to expand.

900
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: Yes, who refuse to expand Medicaid And listen, well, we

901
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 4: have so much data that shows and people are insured,

902
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: they actually then end up spending less. We spend less

903
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 4: on healthcare because they don't.

904
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,760
Speaker 2: Have to go to the emergency room for check ops.

905
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, And they're getting preventive care. They're getting prevented care, right,

906
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 4: They're getting the care that they need. When we see

907
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 4: illness and disease in our communities. That is an end result,

908
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 4: that's a downtreaming outcome of upstream factors.

909
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 5: We don't want to.

910
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 4: See people with diabetes. We don't want them to get hypertension.

911
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 4: We want to get them before they get there. Kind

912
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 4: of system we have in its country, it's for profit

913
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 4: system that's very decentralized, where many people are uninsured or underinsured.

914
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 4: People are getting a big care that they need, and

915
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 4: there are not the incentives to keep them healthy.

916
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: And also it means that more hospitals are able to

917
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: stay open right in rural areas too.

918
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,959
Speaker 2: It has a larger effect.

919
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, because they've seen so many closing of hospitals

920
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 4: in rural areas because we have a for profit system

921
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 4: and they say we're not making enough money, so we're

922
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 4: going to close. But what about the people that live there.

923
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: It's so important and so deeply relevant to every person

924
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: in this country.

925
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: And I really appreciate having you.

926
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much for having Molly.

927
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 4: And I want people to realize that we can do

928
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 4: so much better as a country for everyone because we're

929
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 4: not I would say we're on life support right now.

930
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 6: They're no more fo Jesse Cannon by junk Fast. I

931
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 6: knew it was coming, but I kind of can't believe

932
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 6: the shape it's coming in, with these bills coming out

933
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,399
Speaker 6: of Oklahoma and the Supreme Court decision in Alabama.

934
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: So we all said this would happen. I take no

935
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: pleasure in being right here. First, Alabama has ruled that

936
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: embryos are people, and that embryos, if you damage an embryo,

937
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: it's like damaging a person. As this is happening now,

938
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: all of these IVF clinics in Alabama are closing. In Oklahoma,

939
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: we're seeing that Republicans they have a House Bill three

940
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: two one six which will ban IUDs and the morning

941
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: after pill if those are both forms of contraceptive and

942
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: it would mean that Republicans are now coming after birth control.

943
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,959
Speaker 1: We said during the healcyon Days of SB eight, when

944
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: Texas overturned Roe v. Wade a year before Roby Wade

945
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: was actually functionally overturned, that Republicans would never stop at abortion,

946
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: that they would keep going and they would come for

947
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: contraception IUDs, the Morning after pill, which is by the way,

948
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: just another birth control pill. And now we are seeing that,

949
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: in fact, they are absolutely doing that so that infuriating,

950
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: fucked up, just terrifying anti science xelotry.

951
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: That is our moment of fuck Ray.

952
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

953
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

954
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

955
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

956
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.