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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: The Vault beckons, But the Vault it's it's trying to

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Speaker 1: tell me something. It's stammering a little bit though, it's

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Speaker 1: like it can't come up with that word it wants

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Speaker 1: to tell me. So I think it begins with the

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Speaker 1: t tip of the tongue. That's what it is. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So the Vault episode today originally aired April fourteen, two

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Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, and it's an episode we did about the

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Speaker 1: tip of the tongue phenomenon. In this episode, we'll discuss

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Speaker 1: what's actually going on in your brain when you can't

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Speaker 1: think of that particular word and that particular actor's name,

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Speaker 1: and then also what you can do to sort of

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Speaker 1: agrease the wheels a little bit and make it happen.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So we hope you enjoyed this episode on

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Speaker 1: the Tip of the Tongue. Welcome to Stuff to Blow

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Speaker 1: your Mind from how Stuff Work Dotcom. Hey, wasn't the

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Speaker 1: step to blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb

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Speaker 1: and my name is Joe McCormick and We're gonna start

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Speaker 1: with a quick question. All right, I'll try to answers

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Speaker 1: as fast as you can. This is for everybody, This

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Speaker 1: is the listener. This is not a necessarily a meat

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Speaker 1: reco question. Right you you out there listening, what's the

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Speaker 1: word for a stone coffin, typically adorned with a sculpture

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Speaker 1: or inscription and associated with ancient Egypt, Rome or Greece.

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Speaker 1: Answer sarcophagus. Okay, a lot of you listeners probably knew

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Speaker 1: that word. It does come up quite a bit. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we we do talk about containers for dead bodies a lot,

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Speaker 1: an awful lot. I wonder why that happens. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: some of you knew that word, and some of you

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Speaker 1: knew it and you were able to say it immediately

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Speaker 1: you thought about it, or maybe you thought about it

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Speaker 1: for a split second and you just called it to mind, sarcophagus. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Some of you might not have been familiar with the word,

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Speaker 1: had no idea what it was, or maybe you just

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Speaker 1: didn't have any clue what we were getting at with it.

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Speaker 1: You knew the word, but you didn't you didn't think

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Speaker 1: we were heading in that direction. But then there's a

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Speaker 1: third category of you out there, some of you knew

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Speaker 1: that you knew the word, but you couldn't deliver it

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Speaker 1: on command. So you experienced this feeling of knowing, this

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Speaker 1: feeling that you are just about to consummate the retrieval

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Speaker 1: of that information from your memory. The word was. It

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Speaker 1: felt like it was right there, and you might have

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Speaker 1: made a noise. You might have gone, uh, I know

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Speaker 1: this and snapped your fingers like you had an itch

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Speaker 1: you couldn't scratch. And this is referred to in the

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Speaker 1: psychological literature as tip of the tongue phenomenon. When a

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Speaker 1: word is on the tip of your tongue, the feeling

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Speaker 1: of that tip of the tongue sensation is going to

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Speaker 1: be the subject of today's episode. Yeah, And it's often

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Speaker 1: abbreviated to t O t or taught. So yesterday I

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Speaker 1: did a lot of about tots, about TOTSA. We will

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Speaker 1: be talking about tots a good bit today. But if

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Speaker 1: you were stuck looking for the word, even momentarily, if

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Speaker 1: you you didn't call it to mind immediately, and you

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Speaker 1: weren't just completely stumped and had no idea, but you

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Speaker 1: were in that middle state where you knew you knew

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Speaker 1: the word, but you couldn't bring it to mind. Stop

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Speaker 1: for a second and reflect back on what that inner

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Speaker 1: experience was like, sort of review the cognitive journey you

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Speaker 1: traveled to try to find the right word. Before you

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Speaker 1: had the word, what did you feel did you have

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Speaker 1: a sense that you knew what letter the word started with?

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Speaker 1: Did you feel like you might have known how many

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Speaker 1: syllables the word had? Roughly? And once you heard the word,

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Speaker 1: were you write about those things? And did you keep

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Speaker 1: thinking of a similar word something that sounds kind of

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Speaker 1: like sarcophagus within going No, no, that's not the word. Here,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do another one so you can have a

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Speaker 1: chance to think about it again. This time we're going

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Speaker 1: to do a proper name game. And this I have

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Speaker 1: to add, this is where I experience uh tip of

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Speaker 1: the tongue phenomenon the most, almost almost exclusively, Like I

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Speaker 1: really don't encounter the word based when any not much,

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Speaker 1: but when it comes to the names of actors, this

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Speaker 1: is like a weekly game I play in my head.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. And we should add that Robert and I

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Speaker 1: played this game back and forth a little bit before

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Speaker 1: we went on air, and I think I stumped him

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Speaker 1: with this one. So what's the name of the actor

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Speaker 1: who played Fredo in The Godfather? Answer? John Kaze Yeah,

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Speaker 1: John Kazale. He was in The Godfather, Godfather Part two,

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Speaker 1: Dog Day Afternoon, what else, the Deer Hunter. I think

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Speaker 1: some of these, some of these big, these big Oscar

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Speaker 1: winning movies of the seventies. He died young. He was

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Speaker 1: a character actor, and he's one of those people who

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who like movies, who

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Speaker 1: who appreciate, especially you know, the critically acclaimed American cinema

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Speaker 1: having houndored his name at some point. Yeah, you would

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Speaker 1: know it. You wouldn't know that you had it back

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Speaker 1: in the in the casks of your memory somewhere, but

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Speaker 1: it's not easy to reach. Yeah, like we were discussing

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Speaker 1: before we rolled here in this episode, he he died young,

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Speaker 1: but he was a character actor. If he'd been a

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Speaker 1: leading man and he died at his age, we'd have

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Speaker 1: him on t shirts everywhere. But no, he was a

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Speaker 1: character actor, and and as a character actor you kind

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Speaker 1: of have to have enough films under your belt. You

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Speaker 1: have to, like he needed like another decade before he

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Speaker 1: would have reached the status of say Abou Simi or

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Speaker 1: you know, Ron Pearlman or any of these other character

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Speaker 1: actors who have have reached the point where they're just

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Speaker 1: such a part of our cinematic experience that we cannot

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Speaker 1: forget them right. And of course James Dean only had

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Speaker 1: a few movies, but leading Man there he'll be on

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Speaker 1: t shirts, so there will be biopics about him. Here's

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Speaker 1: the weird thing, just to throw in, like a personal

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Speaker 1: one of mine. And this may not be in the

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Speaker 1: case anymore because I keep talking about it with Joe

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Speaker 1: this week, but previously, Oliver read will come up a lot,

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Speaker 1: like I'll try remember who's that actor who played that role?

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Speaker 1: Who's the guy who's the lead in the Devil's the

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Speaker 1: guy who can't sing in Tommy? Yeah it was he

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Speaker 1: and Tommy. I don't know. I've never seen Tommy. He

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Speaker 1: plays Bill Sikes in a movie adaptation of Oliver. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would that would make sense. He's been He's been

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Speaker 1: in so many things, because I think his last one

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Speaker 1: was Gladiator. Wonderful actor, did some great movies, did some

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Speaker 1: horrible movies that are in their own way great, and

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Speaker 1: and I've seen plenty of them. But for some reason

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Speaker 1: it'll come up like I'll be watching Mystery Science Theater

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Speaker 1: through thousand with some friends, or just setting around thinking

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Speaker 1: about movies, and I'll picture him in his bearded, masculine glory,

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Speaker 1: and I'll try and remember his name, and it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't form. And so it's just like the phantom limbs

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Speaker 1: of my of my mind reaching out towards his face.

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Speaker 1: But you've captured the essence of tip of the tongue here,

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Speaker 1: because it's not just that you don't know. It's a

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Speaker 1: combination of not knowing and having the sense that you

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Speaker 1: really lee should know and you're just about to get it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the weird thing about this, and of course this

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Speaker 1: is one of the challenges we wanted to kick off

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Speaker 1: this episode with an example, and when we wanted to

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Speaker 1: throw out some examples, but it's it's very difficult, if

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Speaker 1: not impossible, to find the perfect example of of a

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Speaker 1: t O T or a taught because it's gonna vary

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Speaker 1: depending on an individual's you know, personal mind map. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One thing scientists have found in studying this phenomenon is

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Speaker 1: that it definitely happens more often with words we encounter

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Speaker 1: less frequently, and depending on who you are, you might

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Speaker 1: encounter some words more often than others. Robert and I

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Speaker 1: probably would not be stumped by sarcophagus as sarcophag guy

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Speaker 1: by sarcophagus the word, because like we said, we read

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Speaker 1: and talk about containers for dead bodies a whole lot,

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Speaker 1: but some people just probably don't talk about that all

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Speaker 1: that much. So if that's a more a less often

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Speaker 1: occurring word in your day to day language, you're probably

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Speaker 1: more likely to be stumped by it, right, And the

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Speaker 1: same is probably true for actors. Actors that you talk

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Speaker 1: about all the time are really probably not going to

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Speaker 1: give you a hard time. But the ones that you

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Speaker 1: logged in your memory at some point in the past

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Speaker 1: and have not come up since, those are the ones

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Speaker 1: where it's really likely to hit you hard. Yeah, a lot,

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Speaker 1: especially with you know, like that guy. Actors. They're sometimes

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Speaker 1: referred to as those character actors that have been in everything,

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Speaker 1: but there there maybe not. They're not even in that

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Speaker 1: Ron Pearlman, Steve b Simi area. You know that they're

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Speaker 1: the kind of actor who always plays a cop. Oh

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Speaker 1: you know, they always play a white cop in a film,

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Speaker 1: and therefore they just kind of completely all blend together.

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Speaker 1: Paul Marco and Conrad Brooks, Yeah, I guess the I

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Speaker 1: I have trouble picturing them, but I'm sure if you

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Speaker 1: showed me their photos right now, I would say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there the cops in the Edwood movies. Oh yes, yes, okay. So,

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Speaker 1: so we should look at what the scientists and psychologists

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Speaker 1: of history have made of this tip of the tongue phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: because it goes beyond just being like a weird curiosity

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Speaker 1: of everyday memory. It it's sort of an interesting way

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Speaker 1: to think about what happens when we try to interact

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Speaker 1: with words and uh and and information retrieval in our brains.

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Speaker 1: So William James, the American psychologist and philosopher, you might

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Speaker 1: be familiar with him from the Varieties of Religious Experience,

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Speaker 1: great text in the History of the Study of Religions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's and he's definitely come up on the show before

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Speaker 1: in the past. Was he the brother of Henry James,

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Speaker 1: the writer? For some reason, I have that in my

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Speaker 1: mind that could be completely wrong. I don't know, But

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Speaker 1: if if not, I like the idea of exploring it

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Speaker 1: as like a retcon buddy picture, you know. But so

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Speaker 1: William James wrote about tip of the tongue phenomenon as

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Speaker 1: far as we know, he was one of the first

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Speaker 1: people to really write about it. Robert, why don't you

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Speaker 1: read William James quote about this, al right? He? This

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Speaker 1: is how he described it. He said, suppose we try

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Speaker 1: to recall a forgotten name. The state of our consciousness

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Speaker 1: is peculiar. There is a gap therein, but no mere gap.

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Speaker 1: It is a gap that is intensely active. A sort

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Speaker 1: of wraith of the name is in it, beckoning us

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Speaker 1: in a given direction, making us at moments tingle with

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Speaker 1: the sense of our closeness, and then letting us sink

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Speaker 1: back without the longed for term. If wrong names are

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Speaker 1: proposed to us, this singularly definite gap acts immediately so

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Speaker 1: as to negate them. They do not fit into its mold,

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Speaker 1: And the gap of one word does not feel like

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Speaker 1: the gap of another, all empty of content, as both

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Speaker 1: might seem necessarily to be when described as gaps. I

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Speaker 1: really like this way of picturing it, because he's he's

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Speaker 1: casting the negative space there, the gap between your knowledge

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Speaker 1: that you know the word and the fact that you

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Speaker 1: can't call up the word as as a thing, a

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Speaker 1: literal thing like the negative space is in its own right,

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Speaker 1: uh and entity acting in your mind, because it negates

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Speaker 1: the other path when you know that, uh, it's not

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Speaker 1: this other word, you know, right when you're looking for

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Speaker 1: John Becazelle, you know it's not Al Pacino you're looking for.

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Speaker 1: You know it's not James con So the negative space

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Speaker 1: there is doing something is just not leading you to

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Speaker 1: John Kessale exactly. It's like there is a there is

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Speaker 1: a silhouette, there is an outline, there is a shape there,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, you know that certain things are

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Speaker 1: not going to fit in that shape. Okay, speaking of

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Speaker 1: that guy. Actors, how about this one? Who's the actor

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Speaker 1: who played Nancy's dad in a Nightmare on Elm Street. Answer?

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Speaker 1: It was John Saxon, of course, the great John Saxon.

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Speaker 1: Now you submitted that question and answer, But do you

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Speaker 1: think it would have stumped you? If you hadn't, it

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Speaker 1: would not have stumped me. Um, this was very much

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Speaker 1: one unlike Oliver Read. I know John Saxson when I

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Speaker 1: see him, and like the John Saxson, I guess it's

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Speaker 1: just more of a singular name. It sticks out more,

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Speaker 1: whereas Oliver Read. Even though Oliver Read was very much

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Speaker 1: one of a kind, his name is a little. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a little British e. I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: John Saxon to me, I think i'd know him, or

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Speaker 1: from Enter the Dragon, where he plays the most boring

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Speaker 1: of all the fighters. He does play the most boring

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Speaker 1: about the fighters. He doesn't even really fight all that hard.

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Speaker 1: Just kind of happens to be in the right place

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Speaker 1: at the right time, doesn't he John Saxon in a nutshell? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So back to William James. So we said William James

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Speaker 1: was the first person to really describe the sensation that

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Speaker 1: we know about, but he didn't call it tip of

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Speaker 1: the tongue phenomenon. The name, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: just comes from regular language, right, that's colloquial usage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's apparently a universal thing. Uh. In particular, we

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Speaker 1: were looking at the nineteen and nine paper Sparkling at

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Speaker 1: the End of the Tongue, the ideology of tip of

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Speaker 1: the tongue phenomenology, and what they did is they surveyed

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Speaker 1: fifty one language and they found that forty five of them.

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Speaker 1: So that's about expressed the feeling of temporary inaccessibility with

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Speaker 1: the same tongue metaphor. Here yeah, and so you might

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Speaker 1: see this in terms of having the word on your

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Speaker 1: top or at the back of your tongue or in

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Speaker 1: the mouth or in the throat or something. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: one that's in the title of that paper, sparkling at

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Speaker 1: the end of the tongue is I should say, it's

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Speaker 1: worth noting that that expression comes from Korean and that's

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Speaker 1: just pure wildfire. It's so good, sparkling at the end

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Speaker 1: of the tongue. Yeah. That that kind of draws back

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Speaker 1: to that that the description from James that it's wraith like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is supernatural energy to it. Uh. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: of the the languages surveyed here, American sign language, Icelandic

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Speaker 1: to sub Saharan African languages, and Indonesian do not use

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Speaker 1: the tongue metaphor. Now Additionally, five languages Cantonese, Mandarin, Hindijasa,

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Speaker 1: and Ebo use the related expression in the mouth to

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Speaker 1: describe the experience. The Japanese use the expression out of

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Speaker 1: the throat and uh, and some use multiple metaphors, so

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Speaker 1: you'll have the tongue, but then you have another one

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Speaker 1: in use as well, with the French being in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: the most exciting because they use both the tip of

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Speaker 1: the tongue and hole in my head. Yeah, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's like I almost have it, but there's a

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Speaker 1: hole in my head. And it's I guess the thought

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Speaker 1: like flew out that the word just flew out of

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Speaker 1: my head and I cannot grasp it. Oh, that adds

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Speaker 1: a whole new meaning to I need to think of

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Speaker 1: John Kazale like I need a hole in my head. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting. Uh. And certainly one of those

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Speaker 1: where you you know, you start thinking of languages is

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Speaker 1: kind of like little ecosystems of symbolism and metaphor and

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Speaker 1: if you uh and and and some of those ideas

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Speaker 1: are universal, some of them are confined to a number

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Speaker 1: of ecosystems, and some seem to be just perfectly encapsulated

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Speaker 1: within that particular language. Yeah, totally. So we're gonna come

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Speaker 1: back to that paper in a minute, but I do

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Speaker 1: want to go back and mention that they're of a

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Speaker 1: landmark paper in the study of tip of the tongue

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Speaker 1: phenomenon that came in nineteen sixty six by Roger Brown

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Speaker 1: and David McNeil, And this was just called the tip

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Speaker 1: of the tongue phenomenon published in the Journal of Verbal

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Speaker 1: Learning and Verbal Behavior, and these guys made some of

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Speaker 1: the first systematic observations of what happens during a tip

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Speaker 1: of the tongue state in an experimental setting. They define

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Speaker 1: tip of the tongue is a failure to recall a

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Speaker 1: word of which one has knowledge, again bringing these distinctions

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Speaker 1: of sort of stages of knowledge into things. So what

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Speaker 1: does it mean when you think you remember something but

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Speaker 1: you can't bring it to mind. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things they point out at the outside of their paper

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Speaker 1: is that it's interesting, like, if you can't recall the word,

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Speaker 1: how do we know that the person experiencing a tip

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Speaker 1: of the tongue state a tot if you will, actually

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Speaker 1: has knowledge of the word. What if it's just an

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Speaker 1: illusion that you actually have knowledge of the word. And

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Speaker 1: they think that's not the case, because you can observe

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. One of the things is that

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Speaker 1: sometimes people resolve the tip of the tongue state by themselves.

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Speaker 1: So you might sit there for a minute going like, oh, oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: I know it, I know it, and then figure it

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Speaker 1: out and then so that sort of proves that you

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Speaker 1: did actually have it. It's not just a phenomenal illusion

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Speaker 1: that you would have access to the word. And then

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Speaker 1: there are other cases where the purpose where the person,

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Speaker 1: even if they don't resolve the state by themselves, they

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Speaker 1: can recognize the word once it's presented from the outside,

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Speaker 1: and they can negate other words. So even if you

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Speaker 1: couldn't come up with John Kazale, you could say no,

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Speaker 1: not that actor, not that actor. No, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: could say no to all the other names in the world.

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Speaker 1: Someone says John Cassavetti's and you you instantly no, it's no,

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Speaker 1: it's not John Cassavetti's. But that might be enough to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's John Kazale, right. And that's one of the other

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Speaker 1: things that's really interesting and study of the tip of

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Speaker 1: the tongue phenomenon is that certain clues related to the

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Speaker 1: sound of the word can trigger it. They can send

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Speaker 1: you down the right path. But I like this description

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Speaker 1: they give what the tip of the tongue state is like.

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Speaker 1: They say, the signs of it were unmistakable. He would

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Speaker 1: appear to be in mild torment, something like the brink

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Speaker 1: of a sneeze, and if he found the word, his

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Speaker 1: relief was considerable. I think we've we've all find ourselves

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Speaker 1: in a situation. I don't know I'm speaking for everybody here,

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Speaker 1: but I'll speak for myself. I have certainly found myself

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Speaker 1: in the situation where a a tot is induced in

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Speaker 1: my own mind, and in a conversation with several people.

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Speaker 1: Everyone else moves on to something a little more more

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Speaker 1: than just and I'm still in that tot, and so

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Speaker 1: everything's just going on around me. And then I resolved

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Speaker 1: the tot, and then I disturbed the conversation again by

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Speaker 1: saying I was don knots don Knots played Barney five

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Speaker 1: or whatever the top mind and nobody else knows what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. Everybody else has totally forgotten this what

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Speaker 1: what has actually been just a situation of mental anguish

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Speaker 1: for me for you know, a few seconds anyway. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so I think we've we we sorted described the phenomenon. Now.

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Speaker 1: It's it's these two main features. Inability to recall a

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Speaker 1: word or phrase, and then the subjective sensation that recall

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Speaker 1: is imminent, it's inbound, you're just about to have it.

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Speaker 1: But one of the really interesting things about this subject

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Speaker 1: is thinking about what broader implications this has for how

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Speaker 1: we understand language working in the brain, Like how does

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Speaker 1: the retrieval of a word happen when you're putting together

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Speaker 1: the language you speak? Just consider this for a second.

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Speaker 1: Usually speaking happens so fast you don't have time to

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Speaker 1: analyze it. When you go to speak a sentence, where

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Speaker 1: do your words come from? One of the creepiest things

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Speaker 1: is how little awareness we really seem to have of

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Speaker 1: how language comes out of us. So I start speaking

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Speaker 1: a sentence, and the sentence happens, but I don't really

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Speaker 1: know how it happened. I'm not consciously aware of choosing

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Speaker 1: each and every one of the words I use from

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Speaker 1: some kind of dictionary in my brain as I go along. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it just sort of happens and then it's out, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know what happened in between. But it's only

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Speaker 1: really in that tip of the tongue state. By contrast,

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Speaker 1: that the mystery of the regular fluidity of language becomes

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Speaker 1: so clear and so starkly weird. And it is weird,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. Like I I can't help but think now

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Speaker 1: about the difference between um, my my my spoken use

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Speaker 1: of language and my written use of language and not

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Speaker 1: just in the fact, and you know, the obvious fact

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Speaker 1: that with written language one has the opportunity to revise

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Speaker 1: and uh and shift things around and tweak it until

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Speaker 1: you get it in the exact form you want. But

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Speaker 1: just my you know, by the moment, my real time

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Speaker 1: use of language, I feel is rather different in both

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Speaker 1: the spoken in the written form. Yeah, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's totally true. And in fact, I think I have

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Speaker 1: more of the sensation of consciously dealing with something like

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Speaker 1: a mental dictionary when I'm writing than when I'm talking.

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Speaker 1: When I'm talking, it feels much more mysterious and obscure

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Speaker 1: to me where the words come from. Yeah, Like, when

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Speaker 1: I'm writing, then there's like a little guy in my

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Speaker 1: head and he's going into a little library and saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think we'll have this word and this

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Speaker 1: word and this word. These are the ones we're going

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Speaker 1: to use, Whereas when I'm speaking, it's more like a

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Speaker 1: scene from a like a submarine movie. We're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's get the torpedoes in there. We've got to go,

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Speaker 1: We've got to go. He has to somehow express what

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Speaker 1: he wants on his sandwich. Is that the right word?

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Speaker 1: I don't care get it out there, because these sandwiches

385
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 1: have to happen and the sentences out before you even

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Speaker 1: know what happened. And then you may have had some

387
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: Freudian slips. You mentioned weird body organs that you didn't

388
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Speaker 1: mean to why why I don't know the Freudian slip

389
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: and another area worthy of consideration for future episode. You know.

390
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Speaker 1: I feel like we really should come up with our

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Speaker 1: own proprietary expression for tip of the tongue states. I

392
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Speaker 1: don't know exactly what it should be. Maybe we'll think

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Speaker 1: about it by the end of the episode. But I

394
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Speaker 1: do want to mention that in there was a paper

395
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Speaker 1: we looked at that that had it was called a

396
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Speaker 1: Review of the Tip of the Tongue Experience in Psychological

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Speaker 1: Bulletin by Alan Us Brown. And this is just a

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Speaker 1: helpful way to quickly summarize some quick findings since that

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties six paper that are on the table about

400
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Speaker 1: what what's the deal with tip of the tongue? Well,

401
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: what does science found out? They found that one, it's

402
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 1: a nearly universal experience. Pretty much everybody experiences it. Number two,

403
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 1: on average, it occurs about once a week for people.

404
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: I feel like that sounds kind of low. It does,

405
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: I think we I mean, we just triggered it like

406
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,160
Speaker 1: at least half a dozen times for each of us

407
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Speaker 1: in this conversation. Maybe unusual in US because we spend

408
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Speaker 1: way more time talking about movies that are full of

409
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: barely recognizable actors that we feel like lots of forgettable names. Yeah. Um,

410
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: the number three they say it increases with age. Number four.

411
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: It's frequently elicited by proper names, so probably more often

412
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Speaker 1: than dictionary words. It's you're going to be searching for

413
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Speaker 1: who was that actor, who was that famous person because

414
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: these were these names are not necessarily part of your vocabulary,

415
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: and you're yeah, and it's it's I feel like it's

416
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: going to be more memorable than your tempt to use

417
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: a word or recognize a word that exists kind of

418
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: outside of your standard palette. Yeah. So fifth observation is

419
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: it often enables access to the target words first letter.

420
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 1: There's a really common experience you you're in a tip

421
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 1: of the tongue state. You can't remember the word, but

422
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,679
Speaker 1: you can remember what it starts with. Yeah, Like I

423
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: don't remember what those really weird pyramid things are that

424
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: they had in the ancient world. But they began with

425
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: a Z what were they? What was it? And then

426
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: you remember zig zigaratte. Yeah, I'm sneaking Ziggy Stardust, Yeah

427
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 1: I wanted the too, Okay. Six These the tip of

428
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 1: the tongue states are often accompanied by words related to

429
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: the target. Again, you can come up with ziggy star dust,

430
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: but not zigguratte right, Or if it's you're trying to

431
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: remember that characters, that character actor's name, you'll remember every

432
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: film he was in and maybe some of the the

433
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: the characters that he played. Yeah, and then the final

434
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: thing is uh. The tip of the tongue states are

435
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: resolved during the experience about half of the time, so

436
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: it's it's only about half of the time that it's

437
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: just unresolved anguish. You just end in torture that fades

438
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: out and you get washed away into the sea of

439
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: experience and never find an end to your problem. Now

440
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: as well discussed though the our age of of smartphones

441
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: than just almost you know, constant internet connection. I feel

442
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,439
Speaker 1: it has has has changed the scenario used to if

443
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: you couldn't think of of the of the name of

444
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: of an actor, like he just had to maybe go

445
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 1: home and look through your old film magazines or ask

446
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: around until somebody identified Fredo for you. But now you're

447
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: just a click away. So it just comes down to

448
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: like how long am I willing to suffer I find

449
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: myself in this very scenario. Like sometimes there's a sense

450
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: of pride, like I'm gonna remember this on my own.

451
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to the smartphone because I

452
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: should know who this actor is. It's it's much more

453
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: satisfying to do it without cheating, right and then, But

454
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: then other times you might be like, screw it. I

455
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: need I need to know. I don't care if I'm

456
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: driving a car. I need to know who played the

457
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: High Priest and beast Master. I have no idea. Here's

458
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: one where I'm not having Tip of the tongue. I

459
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: just I have no clue. He had a very uh

460
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: try to try to he had. He has a very

461
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: pronounced nose, a very hawk like nose in that film,

462
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: and not David Warner. He was in the sequel or

463
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: maybe the third one. Okay, No, I I just had

464
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: no idea. He really didn't know one tip of the tongue.

465
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: I completely outside my memory experience. Yeah, all right, well,

466
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: you know, shame on you for not remembering the priest.

467
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: But that's understandable. Okay, quick question. This is a toy

468
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: musical instrument that produces a buzzing tone when a person

469
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: hums into the mouth hole. Answer kazoo. No that one.

470
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: I think that would have stumped me a little bit.

471
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: Not that I don't know the word kazoo, but i'd

472
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: be I'd be like, wait, what what? What a toy?

473
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: I'd be thinking of something else. Anyway, Okay, here I

474
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: got another one for you. So what's the word for

475
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: a chemical having pH greater than seven? It's the opposite

476
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: of the word acidic, a synonym of the word basic.

477
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: You probably encountered this sometime in school. The word is alkaline.

478
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: A base is an alkaline. And this one, this one

479
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: threw me for a curve the other day. But though

480
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: I'm not completely sure of it was a full on

481
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: tot because I think I was trying to remember the

482
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: wrong word. Oh yeah, what was the word? I can't remember?

483
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: Because now all I can remember his his alkaline. Okay,

484
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: well we should look at these explanatory theories. What's going

485
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: on when you're having a tot in your brain? And

486
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: here a big help is one of the papers we

487
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, that paper Sparkling at the End of the

488
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: Tongue the Ideology of the Tip of the Tongue phenomenology.

489
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: Horrible name, but very clear, laying out of a bunch

490
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: of the different theories that have been put forward over

491
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: the years in explaining how tip of the tongue states

492
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: could be coming about. And there all the explanatory theories

493
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: are are mostly grouped under two your ferent umbrella terms. Right,

494
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: that's right, So we basically have direct access views and

495
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: inferential views. Okay, let's start with direct access views. Just

496
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: as an overall, direct access views argue that tots arise

497
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: from sensitivity to the unretrieved target. So, in other words,

498
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: the memory item in question isn't strong enough for you

499
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: to recall it, but there's still strong enough to signal

500
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: a TOT. So I like to think of this in

501
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: terms of a murder is taken place because there's a

502
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: mystery here, right, there's a problem to be solved. And

503
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: this is like the witness saying, look, Officer, I glimpse

504
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: the murderer and the shadows, but I couldn't quite make

505
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: them out. I can almost name a suspect. Yeah, I

506
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: think this one, I'm gonna have a little metaphor here.

507
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: We'll see how it works out. But if I understand

508
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,479
Speaker 1: this view correctly, I think these are the types of

509
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: explanations where it's like you have the starting point and

510
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: you have the ending point, but you're just failing to

511
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: make a connection between them, as opposed to this other

512
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: type of view. We're going to talk about the inferential view,

513
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: and now what's the deal with that. Inferential views claim

514
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: that tots are not based directly on an inaccessible but

515
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 1: activated targets. In other words, tots arise from clues. Okay,

516
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: so this would be like the detective saying I didn't

517
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: see the murderer. I wasn't there, but based on the evidence,

518
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: I can almost name a suspect. Okay, So in my

519
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: other analogy, if the first one was I have the

520
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: start point, to have the endpoint, and I just can't

521
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: quite connect them, this would be more like I have

522
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: the start point and I think I can find my

523
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: way to an ending point. Yeah. Like it's kind of

524
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: like if you were faced with the John Cassale situation.

525
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: My understanding of this would be like, maybe I don't

526
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: actually remember John Cassale's name. But I've seen enough of

527
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: his pictures I can and I and I know his face,

528
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: I know his roles. I should be able to like

529
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: I have. Surely, surely I am the type of person

530
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: who knows John Casale's name. Yeah, I can put it together.

531
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: And in this case, I think, Uh, the feeling of

532
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: knowing the word that you experience is uh, it's not

533
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: based on the word being activated in memory, but your

534
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: brain is subconsciously judging that it has enough information to

535
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: circuitously figure out the word. If you'll, if you'll just

536
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: give me a moment, if you know, you just have

537
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: a second. Um. So it's not the presence of the

538
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: word itself that's exciting you, but it's your unconscious confidence

539
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: in your own lexical detective powers to pick up on

540
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: your detective metaphor. Indeed, alright, so at this point, let's

541
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: break them out a little a little further here. Okay,

542
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: so under these direct access views, Okay, we've got a

543
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 1: few different, uh, different ones explained in this paper. Yeah.

544
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: Basically they center on three, um, three sub hypotheses. There's

545
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: the blocking hypothesis. Blocking hypothesis says that toughts occur when

546
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: a retrieval cue prompts retrieval of an incorrect but closely

547
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: related word, and we realize it's incorrect, thus the blank.

548
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: So it's like you're trying to remember John Casale's name,

549
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: you remember somebody else's name. You're like, no, that's not it.

550
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: The blank makes itself now. It's like if your Google

551
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: Maps is constantly telling you over and over to go

552
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: to the wrong destination. You keep going there, but you

553
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: every time you recognize it's wrong, so you just back

554
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: up and start over, so you never go anywhere. It's

555
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: kind of like I like, I, I've basically said this

556
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: sentence before it with different words. But it's if I'm

557
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: trying to remember all of a Read and I say,

558
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: I want to say Rex Harrison, but I know that's wrong,

559
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, like I I know the thing that's coming

560
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: to mind is definitely not it. Yeah, but I can't

561
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: remember Oliver Read's name. You have a path blaze through

562
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: the woods of your memory that's taking you to the

563
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: wrong destination, but it's just too well forged. You can't

564
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: stop following it, alright. The next one is the incomplete

565
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: activation hypothesis. This holds that Taught's happen when we can't

566
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: recall the target word, but since its presence nonetheless. Okay,

567
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: so this sounds just like the basic failure hypothesis, the

568
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: failure to connect. You really do have the word in memory,

569
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: but you just can't quite get there for some reason,

570
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: some some strength of connection does not exist. Yeah, maybe

571
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: you're you're you're a little tired, you're worn out. Everything

572
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: is not really firing at maximum speed, and you just

573
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: can't reach it. What's the next one? Transmission deficit model? Okay,

574
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: this says that tats arise from a multi component memory representation.

575
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: You retrieve the image, the semantic meaning of the thing,

576
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: but not the word. So maybe the sound, even the smell,

577
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: but not the word. Oh, you mean, like the semantics

578
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: associated with the concept of the word. But what you're

579
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: searching for is the sound of the word, and you

580
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: can't do that exactly. So those are the three main

581
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: direct access views. Okay, those are those are the I

582
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: saw I saw the killer in the shadows, but now

583
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: I can't exactly remember his face, right, But what's the

584
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: what are the detective views? The inferential views? All right,

585
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: there are two main ones here. The first one is

586
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: Q familiar charity theory, and this holds that toughts are

587
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: based on an assessment of the level of recognition of

588
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: a particular cue or question. What does that mean? You

589
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: don't have to actually have the memory items stored away.

590
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: But and this is my read on this one, is

591
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: that you feel like you should know it. So this

592
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: is more directly related to what I said earlier about

593
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: inferential views, like I feel like I'm the type of

594
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: person who should know that, and I believe that strongly

595
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: enough that I'm straining to remember it. Okay, But it

596
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: seems like, just from my uh naive viewpoint, maybe it

597
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: seems like that one would have a harder time explaining

598
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: those cases where you have a tought, you feel like

599
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: you're about to remember something, and then you do remember it. Yeah,

600
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: It's like this one was harder for me to like,

601
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: it's harder for me to to read this one and

602
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: then think back and try and feel like and recognize

603
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: it in my own experience. I feel like the best

604
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: I can come up with is maybe like trying to

605
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: remember state capitals of states that I don't think about anymore.

606
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: Because there's definitely a point in everybody's hister whe had

607
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: to memorize all the states and their capitals, or various

608
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: other things like memorizing the periodic table, or memorizing, you know,

609
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: all the nations of Africa. That kind of thing, the

610
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:11,959
Speaker 1: kind of thing you end up not carrying around with it,

611
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: but at some point you knew it, and you know

612
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: that you knew it, even if you don't actually remember

613
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: it anymore. Oh, but maybe you're thinking you can piece

614
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: it together from other pieces of information in your brain

615
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: that are more readily accessible, Like maybe you can remember

616
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: the state capitals if you can picture a map in

617
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: your head. Yeah, or think of the sports teams that

618
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: are associated with it. I don't know, Okay, that that

619
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: makes more sense. And then there's one more explanation under

620
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: the inferential umbrella, right yes. Accessibility heuristic tots are based

621
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: on the amount and intensity of partial information that remembers

622
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: retrieve when they cannot recall a target answer, So I

623
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: remember everything but her name. I should be able to

624
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: remember her name. That's that's my I read on this.

625
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: So so you do friends between a TOT and just

626
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: not knowing something is is how much other stuff peripheral

627
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: to this word you remember, especially if it's really intense

628
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: like I can remember what her hair smells like I can,

629
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: or I can remember, you know, staring into his nostril

630
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: holes and seeing the hairs there. Why can't I remember

631
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: his name? Why is this so intense and yet the

632
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: name alludes me? I should know this person. I was

633
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: trapped in a cave with them for three weeks. We

634
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: had to do unspeakable things to survive. Why can't I

635
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: remember his first name? That sort of thing? Now, the

636
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: reason you couldn't remember his first name is because you

637
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: know what he did to you. He made a bar

638
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: hole in your skull to suppose a small part of

639
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: your brain. But what's the word for that process when

640
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: you drill a little hole in somebody's skull. Well, your answer,

641
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: of course is prepanation in or trepanning. Yeah, or if

642
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: you're a modern neurosurgeon, you might call it craniotomy smarty pants,

643
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: But we're we're referring to the Stone Age practice personally here.

644
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: That's a good one, because it's a word that I

645
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: bet a lot of people have heard at some point,

646
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: but you don't use it all that often unless you're us. Yeah, yeah,

647
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: it's come up without quite a bit here, But and

648
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: it certainly our listeners may have it stored away as well,

649
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: but otherwise it didn't come up in the real world

650
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: too often. Okay, So, as we've mentioned, there are a

651
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: bunch of different theories that have been proposed over the

652
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: years as to how you might explain different versions of

653
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: the tip of the tongue state. But the real question,

654
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: of course, I know people people want the answer to

655
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 1: is how do you overcome it? Or maybe just how

656
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: do you avoid making it worse? Because it truly can

657
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: feel like agony. It's a petty agony, but it's agony nonetheless. Okay,

658
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: never fear. We do actually have some news for you

659
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: on on how to affect your tip of the tongue

660
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: recurrent states, but it might not all be good news.

661
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: Uh So, so let's start with some particularly bad news. Robert,

662
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: did you know that the more time you spend in

663
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: the tip of the tongue state, the less likely you

664
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: are to remember the word the next time. This is

665
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: crazy because it makes because it's easy to fall into

666
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: that thinking where I don't want to grab my smartphone,

667
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm want to think of think of this up myself,

668
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: even if it takes me. You know, the better part

669
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: of an hour, I'm going to reach it myself. It

670
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: feels like that should strengthen the muscle, right. Well, I

671
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: mean there might be something to that, as we're going

672
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: to see from a study in in just a second.

673
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 1: But how many times does that process lead to correct

674
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: resolution of the tip of the tongue of state? A

675
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: lot of times you just failed, don't you? Well, I

676
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: don't fail, not with you end up cheating. Well, that's

677
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: the thing. I either end up cheating eventually. But I

678
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: feel like if I apply my mind to it long enough,

679
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: I get there with actors names, because that's my sickness.

680
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: But but yeah, I can't think of a single situation

681
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: where I've said, well, I just can't think of who

682
00:35:52,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: played Who was Danny's mom in Kubricks the Shining Oh

683
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: she also was she also Olive Oil and the Robert

684
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: Altman Popeye movie. Yes, yes, she was great. But yeah, Okay.

685
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: So there's a study from two eight by a scientists

686
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: Amy Beth Warrener and Karen Are Humphreys called learning to

687
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: Fail Reoccurring Tip of the tongue states you can already

688
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: tell from the title that this is going to bring

689
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: some bad news for people who have this petti agony

690
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: of the tip of the tongue journey. Um. So, the

691
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: hypothesis going into this experiment was that if you make

692
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 1: an error once, you're more likely to make it again

693
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: by way of what they call a quote implicit learning mechanism.

694
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: The more you fail, you the better you forge that

695
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: path to failure. If you go with the metaphor we

696
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: had earlier about blazing a trail through the woods, every

697
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: time you walk down the wrong path to the wrong destination,

698
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: that path just gets better and better to find. You.

699
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: You're more brush out of the way, you make footprints,

700
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: you you trample down, and and it just becomes easier

701
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: and easier to find your way to failure every time.

702
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: So how did this study work? They played a definition

703
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: game kind of like the one we've been playing, where

704
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: they read you a definition of a of a low

705
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: frequency word, what's the word? And when a subject entered

706
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 1: a t ot state, they were randomly given a delay

707
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: of either ten seconds or thirty seconds to recall the word,

708
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: and then after the delay period, the experiment or would

709
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: give them the words. So, if you're looking for sarcophagus,

710
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: you can't get it for either ten seconds or thirty

711
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: seconds at random. They then give you the words sarcophagus,

712
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: oh okay, And two days later the participants came back

713
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: to the lab to be tested again on the same words,

714
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: and some participants got stuck on the same words they've

715
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: been stuck on just two days before. And strangely, the

716
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: results of the test showed that tip of the tongue

717
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: states were twice as likely to happen on words where

718
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: the subject spent thirty seconds in the tip of the

719
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: tongue state than in words where they spent ten seconds

720
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: in the tip of the tongue state. So the longer

721
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: you spent in that state of saying I know this,

722
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: I know this, but not being able to call it up,

723
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: the worse you got at remembering the word in the future.

724
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: And in the words of the authors quote, we argue

725
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: that this longer delay in h t ot state amounts

726
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: to a greater implicit learning of the erroneous state. You're

727
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: just practicing how to get worse and I uh, you know.

728
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: One of the interesting questions I was thinking about was

729
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: what to do with this information in a general sense,

730
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: because I do certainly believe that you can practice yourself

731
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: to get worse at something. I know a lot of

732
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: people have a kind of, um, very broadly practiced positive mindset.

733
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: I know I encountered this in writing workshops, where it

734
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: was just sort of the idea that there's no such

735
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: thing as bad practice. The more you write, the better

736
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: you're to get. And I do generally, of course, think

737
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: practice makes people better at almost any craft or skill,

738
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: but not all practice is good. I I am personally

739
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: of the opinion that you can right yourself into a

740
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: rut that makes you a worse writer the more you

741
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: do it well. One one way that I was thinking

742
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: about this earlier is in terms of of doing yoga. Um,

743
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: that's something I can relate to since I practice yoga.

744
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, you can practice yoga every day, you can

745
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: go to a yoga class every day. But if you're

746
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: being instructed to do a pose in a way that

747
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: is incorrect or is in some way like long term

748
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: detrimental to you, Like you know, something where you're putting

749
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: too much pressure on your knee or you're bracing yourself

750
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: against your knee in a weird way, Um, yeah, you

751
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: can practice something the wrong way and and ultimately make

752
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: things worse. Yeah, in a way that you're you're not

753
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: just being unproductive, but you're literally backtracking your your things

754
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: are getting worse for you. I And so there's a

755
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: follow up to this though, that does have an interesting

756
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: tip we can take away. One of the authors of

757
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: this original study, Karen Humphreys, co authored another study that

758
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: came out just last year in with Maria C. D'Angelo,

759
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: and it was called Tip of the Tongue states reoccur

760
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: because of implicit learning, but resolving them helps. So they're

761
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: building on this previous research that said that speakers tend

762
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: to exhibit taught states for the same words over and over.

763
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: And they played this same game again, the definition game.

764
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: I'll read you a definition, you give me the low

765
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: frequency word, and they actually carried out six different experiments

766
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: in the study. They found a range of things. One

767
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: of them that they just replicated earlier findings about the

768
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: error state making things worse. What we were just talking about,

769
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: you can practice how to fail and get better at failing. Um,

770
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: you sit there in the taught state and you're just

771
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: getting worse and worse at remembering the word. But they

772
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: also found that subjects could decrease their likelihood of experiencing

773
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: this taught state on a single word in the future

774
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: if they were able to resolve the taught state on

775
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: their own, as opposed to not resolving it or having

776
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: the words supplied by a third party. So, right, so

777
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: if you can figure out a way to to find

778
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: that word from from your own mind without cheating, you

779
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: are less likely to have the taught state for that

780
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: word in the future. But then again, I mean, that's

781
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: kind of not very helpful advice, is it, Like, just

782
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: be told you must solve this problem in order to

783
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: not continue having this problem. It certainly makes tots uh

784
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: when you experience them, feel more like a ticking time bomb,

785
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: right right, But it it sounds though like the the

786
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: ideal situation here is you need to make sure that

787
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: you and your your immediate circle of you know, family

788
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: or friends are in a position to where you're they're

789
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: going to help you get it yourself exactly, because fortunately

790
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 1: they did find that this works. They figured out this

791
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: way that the experiment or can help without an gating

792
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: the corrective effect of self resolution. So you just give

793
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: hints that that's the way to resolve the taught state.

794
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: If the experiment or gives what they called orthographic cues,

795
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: so basically cues related to like the spelling of the word.

796
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: This would allow people to correct the bad retrieval pathway themselves,

797
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: and the authors conclude quote, these findings reinforce the notion

798
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: that the language production system is dynamic and continually learning

799
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: from experience, even when that experience is error full. Okay,

800
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: well let me try one out on everybody to to

801
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: to experiment with this. Who played the secretary in Ghostbusters?

802
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: All right? Can you think of it? If you can't,

803
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: let's not just give away the answer. What are some hints?

804
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: All right? What word? Letter does it start with? First name,

805
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: begins with A, last name begins with P. Last name

806
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: sounds like something you might boil water? In answer, Annie Potts,

807
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: Oh there you go. So hopefully that was less damaging

808
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: to your brain because we we we supplied a few

809
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: hints along the way so that you could still get

810
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: it yourself, unless we got there before you were you

811
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: were able to say it yourself, in which case I'm sorry.

812
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: We've condemned you to possible future taughts with anything. We

813
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: should have asked you to posit, But then again, we

814
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: didn't want to spend too long on a data Yeah, Okay,

815
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: So it may seem like there's essentially an ascending order

816
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: of preference if you want to avoid future taught states.

817
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: So it sounds like the worst case is probably just

818
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: sitting in the taught state and never resolving it. You

819
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: don't want to do that. Better but still not great

820
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: is looking up the answer, better but still not The

821
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: best is looking up the answer very quickly, as quickly

822
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: as you can, so spend as little time as possible

823
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,479
Speaker 1: in that taught state. But if you're on your own,

824
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, unless you want to call a friend, that's

825
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: the best thing to do, right And then, so the

826
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: best option seems like, uh, figuring out the name for

827
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,399
Speaker 1: yourself and if necessary, getting hints from people around you

828
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: that have to do with like what letter it starts

829
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: with or what it sounds like. This would be something

830
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: worthwhile in future versions of Siri, Right, so that series

831
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: not just answering your question, but series providing you a

832
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: hint so that you can get it yourself quickly. Interesting,

833
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: or maybe that would just be about being able to

834
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: ask a specific question like Sirie, what is the first

835
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: letter in the first name of the secretary? And Ghostbusters?

836
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: Oh man, if I would I shell out for an

837
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: unlocked iPhone. If I could just get Sirie to do

838
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: that maybe maybe. Now, are there any other any other

839
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 1: clear answers on ways to avoid taught states? I don't

840
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: know if we found any other clear ones. Some confused ones. Yeah,

841
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: like the coffee thing is confusing. Um, like maybe drink

842
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: coffee or maybe not. It depends on where you look. Uh.

843
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: Where we were looking at two thousand fourteen paper caffeine

844
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,240
Speaker 1: priming in the tip of the tongue evidence for plasticity

845
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: in the phonological system, and I found that caffeine can

846
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: both increase and decrease the number of tots depending on

847
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: the experiment. This study found that caffeine might hinder your

848
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: short term recall of certain words, while past studies have

849
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: have illustrated the caffeine can perhaps help prevent tots. So

850
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: maybe we shouldn't use tots here because everybody wants to

851
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: increase their number of tots. We should say to the

852
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: tongue states, yeah, well you know, I like tots. It

853
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: goes back to childhood when you're in the lunch line

854
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: at school. Who doesn't wish you had more toughts? So

855
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: they only give you like seven. It's horrible. Well, the

856
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: thing is, now I am going to discuss them as tats.

857
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: So when I'm trying to think of someone's name, now

858
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: among you know what I'm hanging out with people, I'm

859
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: gonna start saying I'm having a tot. Here, I'm having

860
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: a tot, and I can have no clue what I'm

861
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: talking about. Right. Another way to involve drugs, if you

862
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: might want to avoid tots in a in a cheating,

863
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: roundabout way, UH is taking some thing like LaRaza pam.

864
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: But now we're not advising you take Larazo pam recreationally

865
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: or even to improve performance, because it doesn't actually improve performance.

866
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: It's not going to help you avoid tots in that

867
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: it will help you claim the word earlier. It may

868
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: help you avoid tots in that you'll be wrong and

869
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: you won't care. You're not going to experience that. This

870
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: is what they found is that when people are on

871
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: this drug and they get the word wrong, they don't

872
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: have this sense of I know it, it's imminent. They

873
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 1: just say, whatever retrieves you say. Uh. Rex Harrison played

874
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: The Secretary and Ghostbusters and they never had all right,

875
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: let's have another one, Joe, what do you got Okay,

876
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: how about this one. What's the time and date? Happens

877
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: twice each year where the sun crosses over the celestial

878
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: equator where the night and the day are the same length.

879
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: Answer acts, No, it's equinox galax. Escalax, of course, is

880
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: uh a medication that you take when you can't poop, right,

881
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: escal acis escalax a mythical creature, and escalax escalax is

882
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: a mythical creature that you summon when you can't put

883
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: It has the magical ability to help you. Pip. I

884
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: think the escalax comes from the Simpsons. It's a it's

885
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: a horse with the head of a rabbit and the

886
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: body of a rabbit. Okay, I was not familiar with

887
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: that one. That's a good one. Okay. One more fact

888
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about before we wrap up, which

889
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: I did think was kind of interesting, and that's simply

890
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: the fact that there is an equivalent phenomenon. Now, you

891
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: said that the earlier study found that there wasn't a

892
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: tip of the tongue expression in American sign language, but

893
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: there is a recognized tip of the fingers phenomenon deaf signers.

894
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: And I think this is really interesting because when I'm

895
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: thinking about what's going on in the tip of the

896
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: tongue phenomenon. There seems to be a disconnect between the semantics.

897
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: You have the semantics, you know what the word means,

898
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: or you know what the actor's face looks like, or

899
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: what movies he or she was in or something like that.

900
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: You know, you have all the meaning information, you just

901
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: can't connect it to the word, to the sounds of

902
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: the words. There's a disconnect between semantics and phonology. But

903
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: in in in sign language, you're not necessarily involving sounds. There,

904
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: you might be involving hand motions and and different types

905
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: of where the hands are placed, what you do with

906
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: your fingers, the movement involved in the hand motions to

907
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: gesture the name, and so there have been observations and

908
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: studies about this tip of the fingers phenomenon, and I

909
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: just thought that that was a very interesting parallel. It

910
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: seems like the tip of whatever doesn't necessarily have to

911
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: be sound. Yeah, that's interesting. It takes the same mental

912
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 1: process outside of the sonic realm. Yeah. Like one of

913
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: the things observed about it is that signers were often

914
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: able to recall the first letter of a finger spelled

915
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: word isn't that interesting the same way that you can

916
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: usually you know, you can think, oh, any pots, Well

917
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: you can't think of any pots, but I know her

918
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: name started with an A. People who who deaf signers

919
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: can do the same thing it started with and then

920
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: the hand sign for an A. Interesting that there's a

921
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: whole study about this, if you want to look at up.

922
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: It's called Tip of the Fingers Experiences by Deaf Signers,

923
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: Insights into the Organization of a sign based Lexicon and

924
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: Psychological Science in two thousand five. Anyway, I find this

925
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: topic really interesting, not just because of the phenomenon, but

926
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: because of what I brought up at the in the

927
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: earlier section about how it highlights weird things about the

928
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: nature of language that we don't usually think about, like

929
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: the One of the things is what people talk about

930
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: in semiotics, you know, the difference between the signifier and

931
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: the signified that we just often don't recognize that gap

932
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: in between them, like the gap William James talks about there,

933
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: uh that we can so easily come to identify a

934
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: word with the thing it means, but the word is

935
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: not the thing, and these these gaps where we have

936
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: the object in mind, we have the face in mind,

937
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: but we can't make the sounds to make it. Highlights

938
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: some of the weird mechanical nature of meaning and its

939
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: relationship to science in our universe. Yeah, it's like when

940
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: the machine is working, we don't think twice about it

941
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: because we are we are the machine. But but when

942
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: when When there are catastrophic errors, that's one thing. But

943
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: these are every day, or at least according to the

944
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: study we're looking at, at least every week. We experience

945
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: these errors, and it provides us just a little insight

946
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: into what's going on. I think these errors can bring

947
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: up interesting facts about our brain in the same way

948
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: that seeing glitches in a computer game can make you

949
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: understand a lot more about programming and how the game works,

950
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: because you might be say you're playing a computer game

951
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: in some kind of three D rendered world, and you're

952
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: just having it as a pure experience. You're in the world,

953
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's all real, and your characters real. Being

954
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,840
Speaker 1: in the world is real, and suddenly a glitch starts happening.

955
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: You run through a wall or something, or part of

956
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,280
Speaker 1: your you know, your arm comes off and floats free

957
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: or something, and it suddenly snaps you back into the

958
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: reality that that none of this is a true, organic,

959
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: real experience. But it's all bits, you know, objects and

960
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 1: bits of code that are functioning together perfectly well most

961
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: of the time. But suddenly you understand what all the

962
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: different bits and shapes are and how they're made, and

963
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: how they have to come together to create this seamless experience. Yeah,

964
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: there's always something, there's something kind of magical about, Like

965
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: the first time you walk through a wall and doom

966
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: and you're standing in the sort of that the ether

967
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: outside of the of the game and you but you

968
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: can look down and see those hallways just floating into nothing. Yeah.

969
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: And then of course up above there's the face of

970
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: John Kazee looking over all of us. Indeed, along with

971
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: any pots and don knots, a complete pantheon of of

972
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: taught actors. Okay, that's all I got. You got anything else?

973
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 1: That's all I got? Um, Hey, but I know that

974
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: everyone out there has some experience with this. What's the

975
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: word that always sets you off? Yeah? What's that that

976
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: one actor that never comes to mind when you try

977
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: and imagine, try and try and remember their names. We'd

978
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: love to hear from you on all of that. In

979
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: the meantime, check out stuff Toble your Mind dot com.

980
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 1: That's where you'll find oh podcast episodes, videos. We have

981
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: some cool new animated things that are going up where

982
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: it's a little animated shorties that are clipped out of

983
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: existing audio episodes. There's one up on ants. We have

984
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: one coming up soon on Trepid Nation. Go check that out. Also,

985
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,399
Speaker 1: we have blog posts there links out to our social

986
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: media accounts such as Twitter and Facebook. We're blow the

987
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: mind on both of those. We are stuff to blow

988
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: your mind on Tumbler, and I believe we'll blow the

989
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: mind on Instagram. We're just getting that one up and rolling.

990
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us

991
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: with feedback about this episode or any other recent episodes,

992
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: or if you want to let us know that thing,

993
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: that thing that always sets you off, you just know it,

994
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: it's just there. I'm just about to get it, but

995
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: you can't quite get it. You can email us and

996
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: you may just have to describe what it is because

997
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: you can't come up with the word at blow the

998
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: mind at how stuff works dot com for more on

999
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff

1000
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: works dot com. Love Love Love