1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Previously on Paper Ghosts. One person in Brookly said, I've 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: never seen some guns out the one time, you know. 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: And they come in and started firing Addie and he 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: started pouring back at him and he killed her and 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: them too, and said that a bullet had went through 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: the wall and hit the little boy. So you sit 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: down with them, and how are you feeling when you 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: sit down? It was a white out from my shoulders 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: to know that I could get top to them and 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: let them know what happened. My name is m William Phelps. 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: I'm an investigative journalist and author of true crime books. 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: This is season two of Paper Ghosts. Burned saying good 13 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: to a loved one taken away too soon and stills 14 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: how permanent and indefinite murder is, how indelibly ubiquitous losing 15 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: someone in this manner becomes, even after so much time 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: has passed thinking about this case. The one promise I 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: can fulfill is to keep digging, to keep trying to 18 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: find that resolution I know is there. And it's important 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: not to confuse resolution with justice. There is no justice 20 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: when your family has been slaughtered, only legal recourse and 21 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 1: judicial consequences, of which you really have zero control over. Instead, 22 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: I strive to find anything I can that will bring comfort, 23 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: no matter how small, so these people can sleep a 24 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: little better at night. As Carol Thompson tells me, the 25 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: aftermath of what happened as she began to accept that 26 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: her family had been taken from her was chaotic and confusing. 27 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: This is a huge case around here, right, Oh my god, 28 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: it's horribly, horribly huge. It was so terrible that I went, 29 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. I want to pick my sister 30 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: up from the airport. And we went immediately to Frisious 31 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: for breakfast. And you know, I'm devastated. You know, I 32 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: can't think. She can't think. We're mess. We're both crying 33 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: and stuff, but we're trying to keep it together. And 34 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: we sat down and we order our food and I 35 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: hear everybody around me. God, everybody's talking. Yelp him, yelp him. 36 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: They all died, everyone on them, ex seven that daughter, 37 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: now there's the EXCEPN daughter. Everyone of them died. How 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: does that make you feel? I agreed with him. I 39 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to be there. I didn't want to be alive. 40 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: I regrettedly with Hols. You did, Oh yeah, absolutely, How 41 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: do you walk away and let your family die? You don't, dude, 42 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: at so, yeah, I regretted it. Did you think you 43 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: could do something? Who knows one of the person might 44 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: have changed things? I don't know. You know, chances are, no, 45 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: chances are you know, me and Shannon both would have 46 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: been killed that night too, because I'm sure that wouldn't 47 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: stopped me and her, A little three and a half 48 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: year old me. I was, you know, a little tiny 49 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: thing at the time, you know, nineteen years old, you know, yeah, yeah, 50 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: you see, part of uncovering answers in any case is 51 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: sifting through all the bullshit town heresaying, self serving, gossip 52 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: rooted and nothing more, and speculation and judgment. So you're 53 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: hearing people whisper and town about. They weren't even whispered, 54 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: and they were loud. It was happening everywhere, I mean everywhere. 55 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: I couldn't go anywhere without hearing it. I couldn't go anywhere. 56 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: And everybody's talking about and they're and they're all talking wrong, 57 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, or most of all they're talking wrong. And 58 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: I want to hear stupid stuff driving me crazy, and 59 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: I just want to hurt him and be like, good God, 60 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: please what are people saying that happened? Oh you know, 61 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: it's probably uh drug deal gone wrong, or it's probably um, 62 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: it's probably we're a nice crime. It's probably a momb 63 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: Oh I bet it's this. So I bet it's that. 64 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll hear all the stupid crap that broke 65 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: my heart. You know, But how did you know it 66 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: wasn't any of that? Well, because I know my parents 67 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: didn't really do any I mean, okay, I know they 68 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: bought that one bunch of jewelry that was probably stole 69 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: one from Ron Thomas. I knew that, But in general, 70 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: they didn't deal drugs. It blie me. I worked in 71 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: that business. I was there seven days a week, twelve 72 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: hours a day. How much do you think they did 73 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: in that business that I didn't know about. I knew 74 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: what was going on in that house or in that business, 75 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: and I knew what was one on that house. I 76 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: knew that none of that stuff was real. I knew it. 77 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: And even one of the rumors was horrifying. It was 78 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: something about little Bill and how they even let him 79 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: do stuff drugs, like drugs and stuff. He was five 80 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: years old, for God's ache, And remember, I got really angry. 81 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: I actually said something to that person, but you know, yeah, 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I would hear all kinds of crazy things. 83 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: I wondered what Carol was thinking about family friend Ron 84 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: Thomas at this point. Was she as suspicious as law enforcement? 85 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: Did she actually think Ron had played a role in 86 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: the murders and fire? I remember one of the policemen 87 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: asked me about Ron and I said, no, no, no, 88 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be wrong. And he said, Carol, it's wrong. 89 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: And I said what, I can't be wrong Thomas and 90 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: the officers said, Carol, we know more than you know, 91 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: and we we are looking at Ron. And I was dumbfounded. 92 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: I was totally dumbound, totally called off guard. No way, 93 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: I stood and looked at that man that night. I 94 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: stood and looked at this mass murder talk to him. 95 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: Did you believe it when they told to do that? 96 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: Not yet, not right that second. But but it was 97 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: because I didn't know why they were looking at him. 98 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: You know, I'm still thinking, no, it can't be, it 99 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: can't be. With help from Detective Tom Cooper persuading her, once, 100 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: Carol began to stitch her thoughts together about Ron Thomas 101 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: and that night a clearer picture emerged. Well, now I'm 102 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: now I'm definitely now I'm definitely suspect Herron. Now, I mean, 103 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: come on, something's up. The Sheriff's department, with the help 104 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: of the FBI, went to Carol and asked her to 105 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: do something. They said, um, we want you to call Ron. 106 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: I said okay, And they said we want you to 107 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: call him and just be normal, just be as normal 108 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: as possible. So I called him and he said, Carol, 109 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: how are you? You should come here? You should come 110 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: and day with me and Marty. We'll take good care 111 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: of you. Just don't tell nobody you're coming, you know, 112 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: because he knew the you know, newspapers were camped down 113 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: on my you know, pretty much outside, and and he 114 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: was pretending like he was trying to meet well, I 115 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: guess he was trying to be nice. Right, We're gonna 116 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: take care of you, just don't tell anybody. Now. My 117 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: head's one ding ding ding ding ding, really crazy because 118 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking, okay, now they tell me the 119 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: purse is found there, and they're telling me they suspect him, 120 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden, he wants me to 121 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: come and not tell anybody. I'm going there. What did 122 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: you say to him when he said that, Yeah, it 123 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: sounds like a great idea, Ron, Let me think about it. 124 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: That's what I said, That sounds like a good idea. 125 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: I could use them. I could use a vacation, I 126 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: could use the break. But when you hung up the phone, 127 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, he wants to kill me. 128 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: He wants me gone. He knows I saw him. He 129 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: wants me gone. Carol was the only surviving person who 130 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: could place Ron Thomas and the other man, Dick Weston, 131 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: at her family's house on the night of the murders. Killing. 132 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: Carol fell in line with that old school criminal code, 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: no witness, no crime, so immediately called the police back 134 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: and said, hey, I called him like you told me to, 135 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: and I talked to him and he wants me to 136 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: go visit him. And they were like, oh my god, 137 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: I'm like yeah. As it turns out, in the days 138 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: following the murders, the FBI gave Carol a photo lineup 139 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: of potential suspects to look at. She pointed to one 140 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: guy and said, quote, I think this is probably him, 141 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. So at that point is when 142 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: they told me that the man I had picked out 143 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: in the picture was Ron's bodyguard. You're kidding me, You 144 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: are kidding me. Yeah, nope, man, you picked out as 145 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,599 Speaker 1: Richard Weston and he just got out of prison and 146 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: he's been staying in the burn Vale area. So yeah, 147 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: now it was all starting to come together. As a 148 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: pressure was cranked up on Dick Weston. Ron Thomas had 149 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: somehow gotten word that the Feds were coming after him. 150 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: Nobody would admit it to me, but after a few 151 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 1: sources gave me the old eye wink, I developed a 152 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: suspicion that Ron had a contact in local law enforcement 153 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: who had tipped him off. At the next time he 154 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: was called in, he wasn't going to be given the 155 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. So, as Detective Cooper explains to me, 156 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: Ron did something he hadn't done whenever he left town 157 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: that summer. Shortly thereafter, Ron Thomas moved, Yeah, packed up 158 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: as houseman. On two days he was gone. And what 159 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: did you guys think of that? Hey, that was a 160 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: little suspicious. Then again, you had really zero evidence. We had. 161 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: We had nothing on Ron Thomas. The only thing we had, 162 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: and sore it worked out is the FBI started investigating 163 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: me and they got him a war for in charge, 164 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: and I don't even think he served any time on that. 165 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: By late July, a cellmate who had been doing time 166 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: in the same prison block as Dick Weston reached out 167 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: to the FBI. I here strain some statements Dick questern 168 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: made to you. Why do you was serving time with him? Character? 169 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. You lie to local cops, that's something 170 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: you can likely talk your way out of plead ignorance 171 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: and walk away pretty much unscathed. But you lie to 172 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: the FBI, and your ass is going directly to federal 173 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: prison for obstruction. While talking to the FEDS, Dick's former 174 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: cell mate revealed details that had not been released publicly, 175 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: which gave the information a hell of a lot more credibility. 176 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: Well't basically tell me what you told down. He said 177 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: that people had a lot of money. This karate guy 178 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: that you know, this got a black belt karate showed 179 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: him greet pays for money. There's no question to Selly 180 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: was referring to Lynda Stevenson's brother Eddie Dowell, who was 181 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: frequently called the karate guy. He said he was involved 182 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: in a hell of a shootout there. He said that, uh, 183 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: we had a bullet pleased his arm. He got loose, 184 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: it's right arms. You say how he got into the 185 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: house for him, He said that the house was like 186 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: and after hours place an you could go there and 187 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: drink and stuff shoot pool. And you mentioned something about 188 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: Bill and the dope. And I heard him say something 189 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: about there was ten pounds of cocaine, but that might Detroit. 190 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: Through what he learned from Dick Weston, the cellmate told 191 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: FBI agents Billy Stevenson's house was party central and Eddie 192 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: Dowell was distributing enormous amounts of cocaine from a connection 193 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: he had in Detroit. Ten pounds is worth a lot 194 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: of money. At that time, a kilo of coke roughly 195 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: two pounds worth, went for between thirty and sixty thousand dollars, 196 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: depending on purity. And look, people who deal in such 197 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: large amounts, those types do not play the way. He 198 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: talked about this one guy showing him a grief case 199 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: full of money in he said, and he took it 200 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: that the guy thought that nobody could take the money 201 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: because he was a private expert. I figure you mentioned it, 202 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: or stay there would over a tuner a thou Art disagreement. Yeah, 203 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: he did say something like that. This cellmate was making 204 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: a bold claim. And yet, in many of the mass 205 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: murder cases I have looked at throughout my career, drugs 206 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: are a common motivating factor, if not the main reason 207 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: behind murder. If you invite that amount of cocaine into 208 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: your life, you better expect violence. If death's accumulated, dealers 209 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: belief you were trying to screw them. Did he go 210 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: there special before that? These people had brewery and stuff 211 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: in the half and money in the firewoods, and I 212 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: guess they ran across the cocaine and when they got inside. 213 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: I've asked Detective Cooper along with other law enforcement sources 214 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: about the alleged cocaine, and they all believed Dick Weston 215 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: lied about this and it was likely trying to minimize 216 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: his role, once again hoping to ascribe a drug deal 217 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: gone bad scenario as the motive behind the murders. I 218 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: found no evidence that Eddie Dowell or anybody in that 219 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: house was dealing cocaine. He said a little kid getting 220 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: me kill was an accident, but I think he was 221 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: just more or less covering up for him give me 222 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: kill and h He also said that there was some 223 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: cool tables stuff on the second floor and that they 224 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: just fell through to the bottom and stuff. All that 225 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: being said, listen to the next exchange between the FBI 226 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: and the selling a point during the interview at which 227 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: things become quite interesting and the investigation shifts. This right, 228 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: He said, this friend and his run that the FBI 229 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: was looking for him. He said that Ron had a 230 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: pawn shop and he gets uh gold and stuff and 231 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: mounts it down, and you know, he sells it and 232 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: he deals in it. And for the way I gathered 233 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: he had something to do with it. He said, well 234 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: he's out. I mean the interesting family gun interviews. Yeah, 235 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: I would. He said he had a thirty eight that 236 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: he didn't worried about FBI getting hold of that. He said, 237 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: we mentioned something about forty or four and twet. I 238 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: guess that's what was used in the shootout for Boar. 239 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: I guess he had a thirty eight. Somebody's firing forty 240 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: fours and him corroborating facts Billy Stevenson's missing forty four 241 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: caliber gun and the thirty eight pistol that law enforcement 242 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: knew had been used in the murders. I mentioned that 243 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: lawn was involvement in the shoot have to what western? Oldim? Yeah, 244 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: did you see what's to have a gun? Long him? No, No, 245 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: he didn't. Did you ever said where the bodies were 246 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: in the house? Right? Okay? W Parlort house was good 247 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,119 Speaker 1: plays in rom He said that he was on the outside, 248 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: and I guess they were on the first floor. And 249 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: when they started having a shootout. Wait, I figured if 250 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: he was involved in a shootout, I guess he was, 251 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: and you know I had something to do with him 252 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: and that run Thomas. Not long after that interview, the 253 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: FBI put together an indictment, a formal charge ready to 254 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: be present and by U S attorneys to a federal 255 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: grand jury. If the grand jury indicted Dick and he 256 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: was found guilty later at trial, the potential was there 257 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 1: for him to be sentenced to the death penalty. They 258 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: summoned Dick from his self. If there was ever a 259 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: time to pin everything on Ron Thomas, for Dick Weston, 260 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: it was now or never, Richard, before doing anything the 261 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: cage right for the simple times, you are suspect the constitution. 262 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: The qualities bad Dick can barely be heard in these tapes, 263 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: but official transcripts indicate, He mutters, a low I do. 264 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: After his Miranda rights were read to him. He also 265 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: had a right, attorney, you had a right, so it 266 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: wasn't much of a conversation. After that, Dick Weston invoked 267 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: his right to remain silent and demanded to speak to 268 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: his attorney. As Dick Weston remained locked up, his girlfriend 269 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: Drusilla Merita, and Drusilla's friend Knath the Barger. We're out 270 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: driving around mile in Indiana one afternoon towards the end 271 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: of summer. As Tanatha explains to me, Drusilla was anxious 272 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: and concerned. Something was definitely up. To Tanitha, she felt 273 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Drusilla could sense an end of some sort coming. We 274 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: went to the filling station to get guys, and I 275 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: didn't know what was going to happen. Just all at 276 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: once were surrounded by ever f behind cop that was 277 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: slung our doors open, snatched her m Drusilla was facing 278 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: a serious charge. She was being accused of aiding and 279 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: abetting in the interstate transportation of stolen property from a 280 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: home where four people had been murdered. If convicted, it 281 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: could get Drusilla up to five years in prison. But 282 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: to the dismay of law enforcement. The federal judge set 283 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: her bond at sixty dollars. Federal prosecutors were incensed by this, 284 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: arguing for a five hundred thousand dollar bond based on 285 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: the fact that Drusilla had quote threatened witnesses in the case, 286 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: namely Tonathan Barging. Tanatha is the closest source I have 287 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: connected to Dick and Drusilla, and there was during those 288 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: days after the murders, nobody closer to them than Tanatha. 289 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: Why do you think Dick protected Rod? Many do you 290 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: think Ron Ronde as sure as gonna sit in here? 291 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: He paid Dick. You think, well, yeah, you get paid too. 292 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: If you had two grocery bags slept full of money, 293 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: that was your pa to do? What cover up his 294 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: set of the deal? Two grocery bags full of money, 295 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: That's what Dick did. Tanitha held up her hands to 296 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: show me the size about two ft cash and he 297 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: had him in his car in the house. In the car, 298 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: now what what didn't want that in the house? I 299 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: didn't want to look at that was he bragging about 300 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: the money? He said he had enough to hold him 301 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: over for a while. I asked Tanatha about Drusilla's involvement. 302 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: She knew what her boyfriend had done. Yeah, she had to. 303 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: I ain't no doubt, my man. She knew what he 304 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,239 Speaker 1: had done, but she weren't how to talk to her. 305 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: Several different times it told her, but she said, I'm 306 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: not telling him nothing. They ain't getting nothing out of me. 307 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: Why do you think she was so loyal to him? 308 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: I don't know. Did she love him. I don't know 309 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: where she loved where. It's just he had promised her 310 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: so much, and then when she's seen that money and 311 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: all that Jules and stuff at her age, he had 312 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: brain marsh turn enough to know that she was going 313 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: to have anything everything she wanted. Around the time of 314 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: Drusilla's arrest, Detective Tom Cooper received word that during her 315 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: recent prison visit with Dick, Drusilla had dug an even 316 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: deeper hole for herself. That same Sully of Dicks overheard 317 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: them talking about getting married. It was that whole A 318 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: spouse cannot be forced to testify against her significant other 319 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: plan that was in the works. Now, she didn't say 320 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: we're didn't say exactly when or hell they was going 321 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: to do it, but she had it in her head 322 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: that he was getting out of there. He weren't staying 323 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: because a couple of times I told her if when 324 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: they did lock him up, out said June need to 325 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: come clean before you end up in jail wapam, And 326 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: she said, well, I won't have to when I'm married 327 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: to him. She just noted her man that if she 328 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: married him, she would never have to say anything. But 329 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: because he was going to take her of her the 330 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: rest of her life, Dick and Drusilla's dreams of wedded 331 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: bliss would not come to fruition. Ten days after their 332 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: request for permission to marry, a judge denied the petition, 333 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: stating marriages are made in heaven and not in jail. 334 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: Cooper knew this walking into his interview with Drusilla after 335 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: her arrest, but also that a deal had been offered 336 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: to her. Talk to us and we'll take care of you. 337 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: Don't talk, and you are royally screwed. In the cash 338 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: of law enforcement tapes I've obtained, tape number four reveals 339 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: Detective Cooper reading Drusilla her Miranda rights. The detective implores 340 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: the young woman to stop playing games and come clean 341 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: because the bottom line for Drusilla maridden now was she 342 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: had no other choice. I mean, let's be realistic. M 343 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: M yeah. I know at the beginning of this thing, 344 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: you saw we didn't have case. Canst you for rating 345 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: an event right a wrong? Well you got, I would say, 346 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: on the outside of dirty days, to make up your 347 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: mind after that, like told before, Yeah, they're on this 348 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: side of the fens or last time you chose to 349 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: stay on that side of the fens. So for the 350 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: most part, Drusilla sat in stunned silence, barely speaking, listening 351 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: to Cooper spell out her future. I suggest to give 352 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 1: us her thoughts. I don't know where you loved there 353 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: or not that between him. I am talking to Dick 354 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: to day, and I don't tend to talk to Dick's 355 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: himself and half for trouble. She wanted go now with him. 356 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: That's your pride. I think you're gonna frange, make up 357 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: your mind which what you want to get. Cooper knew 358 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: Drusilla had been coached by Dick Weston regarding what to 359 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: say to law enforcement. She was not going to crack easily, 360 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: so he persisted under the guise of making her believe 361 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: they had Dick's best interests in mine. I'm you know, 362 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep your body Alix Lammer for the 363 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: rest of your life. If you want to keep the 364 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: mashoup and go down to to what you knew what 365 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: we're going on a year it was me. I wouldn't 366 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: do it, and I'm not to hear. The interview was 367 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: cut short after Cooper realized Drusilla was not going to cave. 368 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: Before ending the interview, the detective gave her a dire 369 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: warning and a window of opportunity. So, yeah, you give 370 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: it some thought. You got about two weeks left. For 371 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: three weeks four things start popping over there. When they do, 372 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: it's gonna be too late then, So you can here, Okay, 373 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to see Eastman, risk of 374 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: your life and joint bouncing back between federal prisoners high 375 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: state prisons, so you can think about her. You know 376 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: where to get a hold of me. You need to 377 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: Drusilla Merritta had become one of the most elusive people 378 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: in this case for me. I need to find out 379 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: if she's in prison, dead, are still living in the area, 380 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: because if Drusilla is still alive, I need to find 381 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: her and hear her side of the story. Hello in 382 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: the next episode of Paper Ghosts, and I remember this 383 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: man came to the door one day and I opened 384 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: the door and he said that he had gotten something 385 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: in his eye and could what I let him in 386 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: to go rinse his eye out. Me being this naive 387 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: eight year old, you know, I let this man into 388 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: my home. She's telling Ron that she doesn't have any money, 389 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: and he suggests to her that if money is an issue, 390 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: that he could arrange to have her house burned down 391 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: for ten tho dollars and she can just collect the 392 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: insurance money on it. Ron Thomas loved a scum bay 393 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: I do or something dirty? He has hands in it. 394 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is written and executive produced by Me and 395 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: William Phelps and I Heart executive producer Christina Everett, with 396 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: script consultant Matthew Riddle. Audio editing and mixing by a 397 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: Booze Afar thanks to Will Pearson at I Heart Radio. 398 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: Series theme number four four two is written and performed 399 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. For more podcasts from 400 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 401 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.