1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Also media. Hello everyone to welcome to if it can 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: happen here a podcast where I have just been attacked 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: for my identity as a British person by my colleague 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Garrison Davis. 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: I gere it's going to happen again. Really, I never 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: This podcast is not a safe space. 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Not for British people. Sadly, many many such places for us, 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: including Britain, which is a country which is not doing 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: so well right now. The Britain is still very safe. 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about Britain today. I do, incidentally, 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: I guess because I grew up in a country that 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: has virtually no fucking public land I mean in the commons. 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 2: Yes, actually kind of topical. 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. That is a question that actually, and 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: so earlier this year in September, I was staying with 16 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: which in people who are indigenous to the Northern Alaskan, 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Interior Arctic and Subarctic, and one of them was like, hey, 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: how did you guys get so dislocated from your lands? 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: One of my friends who I was talking to, and 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: it was a really interesting question for you, right because 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: they have lived on that same land for as long 22 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: as human beings have existed in the Americas the twenty 23 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: five thousand years something like that. Like, the answer is 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: the enclosure of the commons, right, the answer is like 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: proto capitalism is what removed folks like me from the 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: land and identifying in a way that those people identify 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: with the land. But in the United States, we do 28 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: have a little bit or quite a lot actually of 29 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: public land, right, various different types of public land, various 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: different land protections that anyone can go to where you 31 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: don't have to be in America or a citizen. Anyone 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: can go to public lands and enjoy them. Unfortunately, Utah 33 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: Senator quote unquote based Mike Lee is once again attempting 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: to weaken protections on wilderness, which will render some of 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: the small parts of the USA they have not been 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: fundamentally damaged by capitalism, permanently and irrevocably changed. Are you 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: familiar with Mike Lee. 38 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the senator from Utah, the senator from Utah. Yeah, 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: and he's based as you have said, Yes, he's based. 40 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: Right. 41 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: He's a hashtag poster. 42 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: He's a poster. Yeah. 43 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: He operates a Twitter account which some might deem as 44 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 2: offensive and tweets about current current events in a very 45 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: provocative way. Yeah, usually in line with some kind of 46 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,119 Speaker 2: partisan sentiments. 47 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty fair. 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: Specifically, following the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband, 49 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: made a series of tweets that were I guess, kind 50 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: of insensitive, if not actually if not laying blame at 51 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: the governor of Minnesota in this kind of ironic joking 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: way where you have plausible deniability, but in general handled 53 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: that situation very grossly. And I think that that's what 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: most people might know his tweets for. But he's very active, 55 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: He's he's tweets about many things, many a thing. 56 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, if he thinks that, he posts it. But yeah, yeah, 57 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 1: most people will know him as a guy who made 58 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: the extremely poor taste posts following those. 59 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: Murders nightmare on walls the street. 60 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, just nothing to be posting when some people have 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: been murdered. 62 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: I think in general, when people are murdered, I think 63 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: we as humans should should post. 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: The last Yeah yeah, right, if somebody has died, like, 65 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: just don't post, you know, maybe not to say this 66 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: is terrible, so your condolences or whatever, but realistically their 67 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: family aren't looking on on Twitter dot com to see 68 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: you who who's sending their condolences. But the sure as 69 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: funk we'll find out if you try and make a 70 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: funny about it. So to just don't just resist urge 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: to post another urge that Mike Lee sadly have is 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: I don't like that at all. 73 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're talking about Mike Lee's urgents. 74 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: Okay, it's in the broadcastable space. Mike Lee has the 75 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: urge to sell off public land. He has tried twice 76 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: this year. We spoke about this a little bit on 77 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: ed right, we talked about it in the context of 78 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,239 Speaker 1: the Big Beautiful Bill or the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. 79 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, he did try that like half a year ago. 80 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Yes he did. Well, Garrison, I regret to inform you 81 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: that Mike Lee is back somehow. 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: Mike Lee has returned. 83 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this time he has got a new thing. 84 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: So last time, if you remember, he talked about selling 85 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: off the public land to make affordable housing. 86 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,559 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, yeah, not going to look into this any further. 87 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: And that was exactly what he was relying on. That 88 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: no one gave a shit about the millions of acres 89 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: that we all get access to, and they would just 90 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: trust him on that one. 91 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: Based Mike Lee and his abundance exactly. 92 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: It's him and there's o run shaking hands when it 93 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: comes to affordable housing, but something they care about very much, 94 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure, something that Mike Lee has campaigned on for years. 95 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: He did not stick Landing on that because people read 96 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: the proposal and they noticed that it was going to 97 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: do nothing for housing affordability whatsoever. If it did create 98 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: any housing at all, it was going to be like 99 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: super rich people's McMansions. You know, this was not going 100 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: to do anything to move the needlearn affordable housing in 101 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: the US. This time, he has found a cause which 102 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: receives even less scrutiny. Can you guess what it is, Garrison. 103 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: Ah, for why we need to sell the public lands. Yes, 104 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: I'm trying to not just look ahead on your script. 105 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a document in front of you which, 106 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: as he asked, it, so close your eyes. I feel 107 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: like there's like two or three things in the US 108 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: where everyone just seems to turn a blind eye to, 109 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: like I. 110 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: Mean, this is it for like is it for like 111 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: developing land for like oil data centers? 112 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: Uh, that probably is what's happening. But he's he's smart 113 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: enough not to say that, right. 114 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: Super Gold magic card as in the as in the 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,239 Speaker 2: film Eddington. I mean, I would guess the data centers, 116 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: but that that's that I could be wrong. 117 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: It's border security. Oh great, of course, right. You could 118 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: have said anti terrorism and probably got there to you. 119 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: But no, it is. It is securing US southern well 120 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: all aboarders, actually southern border, northern border, Eastern and western 121 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: maritime borders. Obviously they're they're looking to prevent any more 122 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: people coming in from Canada. Was not a border stick 123 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: that that is correct? That borders because literally, so you 124 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: go to search something. 125 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: Full off the map of the United States, I was like, 126 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: I don't think you. Maybe I'm misremembering, but you does 127 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: not a border state. 128 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: Is absolutely not a border state. 129 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: Gas. 130 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: It's actually not. 131 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: A border state. It is above Arizona, which. 132 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: Is yeah, so that is perhaps what's going on here. 133 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: Mike Lee has found a way to sell off public 134 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: lands without selling off U to ohur public lands. Oh 135 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: in this case, not really sell off, but destroy and 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: degrade in a way which is very clearly going to 137 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: lead to commercial exploitation. Right, what Lee proposes, what Lee's 138 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: bill has a bunch of cosponsors. I believe the only 139 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: border State Senator co sponsoring it is head cruise that 140 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: makes sense, big public lands, respector. But Lee's bill would 141 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: allow the Department of Homeland Security to quote inventory illegal 142 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: roads and trails on public land within one hundred miles 143 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: of the border and then convert them into navigable roads. 144 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: That that is the part that makes no sense, right, 145 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: Like when you look at Lee's statements, and I will 146 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: read one of Lee's statements here. So this is a 147 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: statement on the Senate Energy Committee web page where they 148 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: talk about Energy Natural Resources Committee. His quote from Mike 149 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Lee explaining his bill quote, Biden's open border chaos is 150 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: destroying America's crown duels. I'm going to pause here to 151 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: note this. According to my watch, we're at November seventh, 152 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, while your watches rog Yeah, we are 153 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: once again asking the most important question of our time. 154 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: It was President who is He used the president tense. 155 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: It didn't It's not even like talking about twenty twenty 156 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: and pretending that Trump was a president. He's doing it. 157 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 2: Right now that the art Quorterer policies are destroying our 158 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: natural airs. 159 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, we were a year after the election. You've had 160 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: time to come to terms with this. You can't just 161 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: keep pointing at Joe, but apparently I guess you can. 162 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: They're going to keep doing that for three more years 163 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: until there's a new guy. 164 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So let's go on with Chairman Lee, his 165 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: chairman of this Senate Energy Natural Resources Committee. Right, Families 166 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: who want to enjoy a safe hike or camp out 167 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: are instead finding trash piles, burned landscapes, and trails closed 168 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: because rangers are stuck cleaning up the fallout. Cartels are 169 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: exploiting the disorder, using these lands as cover for their operations. 170 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: This bill gives land managers and border agents tools to 171 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: restore order and protect these places for the people they 172 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: were meant to serve. He's doing the thing where he 173 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: says one thing and then his build does something completely different. Yeah, 174 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: what he is saying is, on the face of it, 175 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: somewhat ridiculous. But what he's claiming he's going to do 176 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: is protect these lands. Right. What the bill allows them 177 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: to do is to find roads that are not permitted 178 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: and turn them into navigable roads. 179 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: So just actually pave roads, yes, in the protected wildlife in. 180 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: The Yeah, well crucially in wilderness areas. Right. So the 181 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four Wilderness Act does not allow for there 182 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: to be any mechanized access. Lee's bill proposes not just 183 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: to amend the Wilderness Act for within one hundred miles 184 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: of the border, but to amend it entirely to allow 185 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: for the construction of roads. 186 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: So that they can police the public lands better. That's 187 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: that's what he's saying. 188 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Well, he's one of his claims is for 189 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: search and rescue, and that there are already exemptions that 190 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: allow for mechanize search and rescue access, right, like things 191 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: like helicopters, right, helicopters. Yeah, if you get and even 192 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: like you get like motorized gurneys, you can use thesar 193 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: things like that, right, like the even ATVs. Right, there's 194 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: a threat to human lives. 195 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: A Toyota tacoma. 196 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you'd struggle in most wilderness lands with 197 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: the Tacoma, but yeah, you could. You could give it 198 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: a college try. But it's ludicrous. He hasn't even made 199 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: an effort to join the dots, you know. It also 200 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: calls for fire mitigation by clearing fuels and building fire breaks, 201 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: and includes a provision that would quote address invasive or 202 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: non native species. 203 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 2: In the wilderness area. 204 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, like, what are you going to go in there 205 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: and round us? 206 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 2: Everyone's planting and spreading invasive species. 207 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, of course they are invasive species right late, 208 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: Like if you go to parts of where I live, 209 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: like you'll see mustard, which is not an indigenous species 210 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: because the climate's changing and people move around the world, 211 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: and like, lots and lots of animals that weren't like 212 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: here twenty thousand years ago are here now. 213 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 2: I mean, you can make an argument for managing these areas. 214 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: I don't think he's coming at this from an environmental 215 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: conservation standpoint. 216 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know what the non native species thing 217 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: is about other than like just like nativism for plants, 218 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: Like I genuinely can't work it out. If anyone has 219 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: any ideas, please let me know. It also attempts to 220 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: inventory damage done to public lands by my grants, like 221 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: what wildfires are caused by migrants? How many national parks 222 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: are trashed by migrants? 223 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: Oh my god? Yeah, as opposed to the Americans citizens 224 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: who treat these areas like dogshit. Yeah, is who simply 225 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: just don't do their jobs because they're too lazy. 226 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, And like the literally thousands of people a year 227 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: who fucking drag their refrigerator or television onto public land 228 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: and execute it by firing squad. Yeah. Like yeah, maybe 229 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: make a bill about that. I mean, you want to 230 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: do something nice for public land. I want to give 231 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: a definition of wilderness from Howard. I think it's zamasav 232 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: and he ever read his name with a Wilderness Society, 233 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: who more or less wrote act It defines wilderness as 234 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: quote a wilderness in contrast with those areas where man 235 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: and his own works dominate the landscape is hereby recognized 236 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: as an area where the earth and its community of 237 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a 238 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: visitor and who does not remain. I don't actually really 239 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: like that definition. I like wilderness, but I'm not a 240 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: big fan of the idea of like quote unquote unti wilderness. Right, 241 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: like every bit of what is now the United States 242 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: is a place where indigenous people have been living and 243 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: surviving for tens of thousands of years, long before it 244 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: was the United States. It's not untouched. It's just not 245 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: fucked by extractive capitalism in a way that a lot 246 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: of our land has been in the last two hundred. 247 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: Years, there could be touching without a fuck, that's what 248 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: you're saying. Person. 249 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 1: I saw this mischievous look come on their face, and 250 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know which direction they were going to take it, 251 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: but I didn't expect that one. 252 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: Now this is podcasting. 253 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: Yeah wow, Yeah, we've just left the news reel. Let's 254 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: do an advertising break so we can't come back from that. 255 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: All right, we've returned de scandalized myself. Lee is currently 256 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: making his claims right that this will somehow make the 257 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: border safer and make people on public lands safer. 258 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 2: This is such the thinnest justification that you're throwing in 259 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: like this is so I severely doubt he sincerely even 260 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 2: believes this. 261 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the border patrol have access to all 262 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: these lands, right, like I see I think the cumber 263 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: Wilderness of state Wilderness. I see border patrol in there 264 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: all the time. 265 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: I can see. There's many reasons for why our republic 266 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: and might be interested in like building road infrastructure in 267 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: these places and border security. Frankly, is insulting that you're 268 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: that he's even trying to use that as a zeitgeist justification. 269 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fucking ludicrous. Like the Trump administration is speed 270 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: running extractive capitalism on our public lands. Right, just yesterday 271 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: when we're recordings recording on Friday, Joe Biden as president. 272 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: As you will remember, Friday seven November twenty twenty, the 273 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: Trump administration nominated. Okay, I've outed myself. I'm not a 274 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: Biden I'm not a Biden truther. The Trump administration dominated 275 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: Steve Pierce to lead the Bureau of Land Management. Piers 276 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: is a former New Mexico congressman who has supported brilling 277 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: and fracking on federal land. He's also a serial loser 278 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: in congressional and state races in New Mexico. I think 279 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: he lost a Senate and a gubernatorial race, and he 280 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: has voted to shrink existing public lands. The Trump admin 281 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: did this before, right. People will probably if they're engaged 282 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: in public land advocacy, they will remember the attempts to 283 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: save the Bears Ears National Monument from oil exploitation, right, 284 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: which again is in Utah. Utah is for whatever reason, 285 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: Utah is a hotbed of anti public lands settlement. Amusingly, 286 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: the previous nominee for the leadership of the BLM had 287 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: to be removed when emails condemning Trump's response to January 288 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: sixth came to light she I guess failed the loyalty test. 289 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: Trump has also put Doug Bergham at the head of 290 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: the Department of the Interior. Right, if you're wilar with 291 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: Bergham's shtick, guest. 292 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: His name sounds incredibly familiar. 293 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was governor I believe in North Dakota. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah. 294 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: Like he did this pivot on like culture war issues 295 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: where he had previously been not opposed to abortion, for example, 296 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: and he just like took a massive swing to the 297 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: right in order to kind of align with the Muga 298 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: position over time. So he's not lying the Department of 299 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: the Interior. I wrote about this on my newsletter that 300 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: I write because when he was nominated, he received a 301 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: letter of support from the Outdoor Recreation round Table, a 302 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: bunch of outdoor brands, notably ARII was one of the 303 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: brands that supported nomination. Bergham is another big oil and 304 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: gas guy, right, He's a guy who has talked about 305 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: the need for energy exploitation on public land. I have 306 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: a whole scripted series and in working on about specifically 307 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: drilling in the Arctic refuge. But this goes far far 308 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: beyond that, right, this could potentially affect every piece of 309 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: public land, every national park, every national monument in the 310 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: United States. 311 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: And drill baby drill, Yes, drill baby. 312 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: Drill is pretty much our approach to public land these days. Amusingly, 313 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: ARII was shamed into rescinding their support of Bergham for that. Yeah. Yeah, 314 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: one of the few instances where people probably posted their 315 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: way to a change in in some in some kind 316 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: of some kind of policy. I guess, even though it's 317 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: only ARII policy. I want to talk a little bit 318 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: about how we got to this idea of public land 319 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: and the sort of way that it's sometimes referred to, 320 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: and in a where I would prefer we talked about it. 321 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: I guess the idea we have right now is that 322 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: there are various tiers of public land. Right, there's Bureau 323 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: of Land Management land, which is often the least protected. 324 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: We have national parks, we have National monuments, we have 325 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: national forests, and we have wilderness, right, wilderness being among 326 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: the most protected. The problem with this approach is that 327 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: ecosystems don't necessarily respect property lines. Right. So let's take 328 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: for example, the witch in Alaska. Right, they have hundreds 329 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: of thousands of acres of their own, but their traditional 330 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: way of life, and indeed, like their existence depends on 331 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: the existence of the porcupine cariboo herd. The porcupine caribou 332 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: herd makes the longest migration of any land mammal on Earth, 333 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: and it carves on the coastal plane, the coastal plain. 334 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: The gwich In way of saying it would be I 335 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: have heard this said a lot of times. My sincere 336 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: apologies if I don't get it right, like I'm trauma best. 337 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: What's a gwandai goodly means a sacred place where life begins. 338 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: It's a very sacred place. Gwitchin don't go there themselves 339 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: because it's a sacred place. But it is not in 340 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: their land. It is part of the Arctic refuge, a 341 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: place where the Trump administration is selling oil and gas leases. Right, 342 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: So if the cariboo can't carve, it doesn't matter. It 343 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: still matters to the Guichin have all this land, but 344 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: they won't have their cariboo right because the herd will 345 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: be so disrupted by oil and gas relin where it's 346 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: carving that it will then disrupt that whole landscape. Right 347 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: without Cariboo, that landscape would be fundamentally different. So right now, 348 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: the way we talk about public lands, I think we 349 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: talk about them like in terms of leisure, right Like 350 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: often they're scene as having a value. Like I guess 351 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: the classic example would be maybe don't remember this gig 352 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: Patagonia when an advertising campaign called the places we play 353 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: in the last Trump administration, it's not it, right Like, 354 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: that is not cool. I think if we only see 355 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: wilderness as a place where, like folks go outside to 356 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: do send the na on climbing routes and fucking shreds 357 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: and mountain bike trails, bro, then we fundamentally like missed 358 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: the value of it, right Yeah, this goes back a 359 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: long long time. For instance, if we look back in 360 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: ninety twenty nine with specifically with the protection of the 361 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: Arctic Refuge, we can see this piece that Bob Marshall wrote. 362 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: Bob Marshall was a forest at the time, but he's 363 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: kind of important in this creating this idea of like 364 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: wilderness and wilderness protections. He talked about the quote unquote 365 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: emotional values of the frontier being preserved in the wilderness, 366 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: which again I think kind of tells us a lot 367 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: a lot of what's going on here. 368 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 2: It's a very very Theodore Roosevelt brained approach to conservation. 369 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like we can go out there and we 370 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: can all pretend to be like the guys who participated 371 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: in the genocide of indigenous peoples of North America. I 372 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: guess like he also he considered using the definition attract 373 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: of solitude and savageness, which, again, like it says a 374 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: lot about it's removing the people from the land, right, like, 375 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: both literally and in our conception of it. And I 376 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: don't think we should do that. Right when we talk 377 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: about wilderness, we need to talk about it hand in 378 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: hand with the indigenous people of this country and their 379 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: traditional management practices which allowed this place to be unspoiled 380 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: until folks started to exploit it in the last couple 381 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: of hundred years. They'll take an ad break, hopefully we 382 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: get something for like fracking or some other petrochemical industry, 383 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: and it will be right back. We are back and 384 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: we are talking about Senator Mike Lee again, Garrison, would 385 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: you like to guess which industries have emerged on the 386 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: top of Senator might Lee's donor list When I cruise 387 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: unto open secrets. 388 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: Is it fracking and drilling. 389 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: It's actually real estate. He's got a ton of money 390 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: from real estate. About six hundred and sixty five thousand. 391 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: Six hundred and sixty five thousand is not that much 392 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: money when you consider the millions of acres of public 393 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: lands which would be completely and permanently altered by this, right. 394 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, he really should be asking for a lot more 395 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 2: money to sell off secure the bag. If you're going 396 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: to do this, it's grossly undervalue. Yeah. 397 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: I always look at campaign donations and I kind of 398 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: expect them to be in the billions or trillions when 399 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: like you're looking at just this massive and permanent change 400 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: in government policy. 401 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 2: It's that easy, folks. 402 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why we are launching a crowdfunding campaign 403 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: to buy back or the public lands. We're not No 404 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: one should own them. We should not be buying them back, 405 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: that they should be protected. It's kind of remarkable how 406 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: many of our public lands this would impact, right within 407 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: one hundred miles at a border that gives us two 408 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: thirds of the United States population. The general definition that 409 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: DHS has operated with also includes all of the Great 410 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: Lakes as quote unquote international waterways, so that takes in 411 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: like a good chunk of the Midwest, right, it would 412 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: then go one hundred miles from the shore of any 413 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: of the Great Lakes. I've seen this reported on very 414 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: poorly or not at all. A lot of the people 415 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: who are better at talking about public lands are like 416 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: the hunting fishing, like hook and bullet media. They will 417 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: talk about it more in my experience, and like the 418 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: straight up outdoor media right, which is where I've made 419 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: my career at least somewhat for the last fifteen years. 420 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: They will also go harder for it, like it's generally 421 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: a more conservative world. But like they will they will 422 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 1: go after politicians who sell public lands. But I think 423 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: if you're incapable of understanding that, like the border as 424 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: a zone of exception, the border as a zone without 425 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: constitutional rights is a problem, and this selling of the 426 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: public lands is part of that problem, then like it's 427 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: very hard to have a complete analysis of this. So 428 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: like I've seen a lot of analysis without any seemingly 429 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: where the rights don't understand the United States operates this 430 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: one hundred mile border enforcement zone, right, and that you, 431 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: as a US citizen or as an non sensim have 432 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: fewer rights within that enforcement zone. I have seen a 433 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: lot of analysis which doesn't take into account this weird 434 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: assessing of migrant damage to public land, Like, in what 435 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: world is that a useful allocation of governments? Like there 436 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: are places right where, Like if I think about the 437 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: places where the Biden administration did outdoor attention, that land 438 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: escape was damaged because people had fires to stay warm, 439 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: and that fire cause is scarring right in our desert landscapes. Yeah, 440 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: that landscape is damaged, Like how are you going to 441 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: what are you going to do? There were like a 442 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: thousand people a day coming through at one point. Are 443 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: you going to find them all and charge them more 444 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: for like misdemeanor California fire? But also there's a tiny 445 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: provision of this bill that I found that suggests that 446 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: migrants cannot be housed on federal public land unless they 447 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: are housed in a detention center. Yeah, yeah, great, thanks. 448 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: That was kind of the case before, Like you couldn't 449 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: really just be like, well, I mean, by the administration 450 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: did just say right, you all campaigre and we'll come 451 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: get you in a week. But there wasn't really a 452 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: legal precedent for that. They just went ahead and did it. 453 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: I guess what I want to end up with is, like, 454 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: I'm obviously very passionate about this. I guess I'm kind 455 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: of a public land super user. You do be camping, 456 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: Yeah I do. I am a Yeah, I am a 457 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: camping guy. If there's one thing that defines to me, 458 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: it's going camping. I try and sleep outside least once 459 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: a month. But yeah, most of my happiest memories in 460 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: life are like moving under my own power through the mountains. 461 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: That is when I'm happiest. That is how I deal 462 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: with my shit. That is what I do with myself 463 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: after every single one of the traumatic work trips that 464 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: you that you seem to love listening to, right like that, 465 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: that is how I cope with the fact that my 466 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: job is to turn trauma into stuff to go in 467 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: between chumper casino ads. So, yeah, I love public lands. 468 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: But you should too, even if you don't recreate on 469 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: public lands. Right. So that's the public lands are called 470 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: America's best idea. I don't like that because inherent in 471 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: having public lands is a removal of them from indigenous people, right, 472 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: and indigenous people losing their sovereignty over those lands. But 473 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 1: as things that the state has done with land goes. 474 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: Protecting it for future generations is one of the good ones, right, 475 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: Like there are some truly special places. The vastness of 476 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: the Western United States is why I live here. I 477 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: cycled across the United States in twenty ten, and I 478 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: was just blown away by, like the scale of the 479 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: landscapes without significant human damage. That's still something I'm blown 480 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: away by. Yeah, you know, fifteen years later. I spend 481 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: as much time as I can, and not just like 482 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: national parks. I think a lot of people, if they've 483 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: visited public land, were associated with national parks. I'd really 484 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: encourage you to like hit up national forests, wilderness lands 485 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: like places where there it's not a line or a 486 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: ticket kiosk, Like you can have a really special wilderness 487 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: experience there. But even if you don't want to, that 488 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: doesn't appeal to you, if it's not something that you 489 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: feel like physically or otherwise comfortable doing that. The fact 490 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: that it will be there for future generations, the fact 491 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,239 Speaker 1: that there is potential to return this land to the 492 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: indigenous people of North America without giant fucking minds scars 493 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,239 Speaker 1: and roads cut through it right now is something that 494 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: we should fight for and like public lands. It's one 495 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: of those things where like I have conversations with dudes 496 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: who do not agree with me politically at all, like 497 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: people who definitely voted for Donald Trump who are also 498 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: furious about this shit. And if you can help people 499 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: see that this is part of a bigger problem, Like 500 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: if this can be a place where we can build 501 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: a coalition, that is a good thing. And it's one 502 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: of those things that like to take action, you can 503 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: just live out and go on the internet and write 504 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: to your senator, call your representative, Like you can do 505 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: these things which are so easy, low risk, and like 506 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: it's a sort of engagement that like neoliberal bipartisan politics 507 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: wants you to have. Right, it's not hard, but in 508 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: this instance, you can do something really good by doing that. 509 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: So I would encourage you to do that. Mike Lee's 510 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: bill is currently in committee, I believe the Energy and 511 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: Natural Resources Committee TBD whether it gets out of there. 512 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: But he has tried twice, like since the summer, to 513 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: significantly destroy this incredible thing that we all have access 514 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: to in the United States. He will continue to try. 515 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: This is clearly something that he he has an agenda for, 516 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: so like I would really encourage people to keep an 517 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: eye out and we will keep reporting on it. Anything 518 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: else you want to talk about public landscare. 519 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a different approach to dealing with 520 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 2: like protected wilderness land. Prop one to amend the state 521 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 2: Constitution just passed in New York. Basically what happened like 522 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, they were building this Olympic sports 523 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: complex and violation of the wilderness like protection like state 524 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: like act or part of the Constitution. And to deal 525 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: with that, I'm not sure what's taken this long, but 526 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: to deal with this, they have just days ago voted 527 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 2: to amenda constitution to set aside twenty five hundred acres 528 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 2: of mountain land nearby but not on this complex, and 529 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 2: to turn that into protected land to then continue the 530 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: operation and like maintenance of the sports complex. The proposition 531 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 2: was worded a bit weird, but I think in effect 532 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 2: this just results in there being in in the end 533 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: of more public land or more protected land specifically. Yeah, 534 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: and the complex that already exists can then continue to 535 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: function because the lands already it was already used. 536 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, like they sort of built it and then 537 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: ask permission, like I guess one hundred years later almost. Yeah, 538 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: like land swaps happen, they like and like like sometimes 539 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: you'll see people being like, oh, this is public land 540 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: being sort of like sometimes landswaps are very menial, right, 541 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: like if there's a little parcel of national forest land 542 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: or like it can it's a piece that like it's 543 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: next to a school and the school needs a playing 544 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: field and those. Yeah, things like that. Land swaps do happen. 545 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: And as long as we're not like losing anchorage to 546 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: oil and gas or to like mcmahonson building, you know, 547 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: I think we can be flexible. 548 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 2: No, I mean if anything this this this will set 549 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: us side thousands of acres of land to not have 550 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 2: that happen to it. Yeah in the mountains of like 551 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 2: that runax Oric. Yes, and then this complex can now 552 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: continue to get maintained. I think if this, if this 553 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: didn't pass, they would like restrictions would fall upon the 554 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: capacity of this complex started to be operating. 555 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: That's dumb because you have a place which is like 556 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: it's not going back, right, Like, once you've built stuff, you. 557 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: Should use it. The damage has been dying, I should 558 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: use it here and then protect more land exactly. Yeah, 559 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,479 Speaker 2: and luckily this this thing barely passed. It was. It 560 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: was pretty closing around fifty two percent. Yes, most of 561 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: the votes for no did come from people, I think 562 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 2: living in New York City. I think mostly because of 563 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: the the proposition was worded. It was worded in an 564 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: odd way because it made it sound like you're like 565 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 2: sacrificing currently protected land at the complexes on. So I 566 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: think people who are approaching it's from like kind of 567 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 2: an ecological standpoint, a conservation standpoint. Yeah, like misunderstood or 568 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 2: had or had some like differing view on like the 569 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 2: value of protecting the current land and the complex is 570 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: on versus establishing thousands of acres of more lands to 571 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 2: be protected nearby. 572 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean initiatives and propositions are often written 573 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: in a particularly bizarre way, and it's a it's not 574 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: like like the California Prop fifty was like two lions. 575 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,239 Speaker 1: This is several paragraphs of so I can see how 576 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: it would have been confusing to people. But yeah, like 577 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: this also happens at a state level all the time, right, 578 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: Like states have public lands too. You'll see like a 579 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: patchwork of state and federal and private land, especially like 580 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: in some national forests in the West. Right, But that's 581 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: something that is especially in Republican rund states now people 582 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: should be very aware of in their own states. It's 583 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: like the GOP didn't used to be massively anti public lands. 584 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: This is a new thing for them, right, They always 585 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: felt that they needed there. I guess maybe that they 586 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: needed their like hunting, fishing, shooting, crowd. 587 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: No, but environmentalism is now wokeafied. 588 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 589 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like a post to al Gore thing 590 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: of now. The Conservatives associate a lot of this language 591 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 2: with like climate change algorisms that it's his this woke element. 592 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very strange. It's funny. I'll often when I'm 593 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: out about, you know, like exploring in the back country, 594 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: I run into guys who are out there like they're 595 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: either hunting or like looking for places to hunt. I 596 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: think we'll be like, oh, yeah, well there aren't as 597 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: many of the turkeys or the deer or the whatever 598 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: is there used to be. But then it's very hard 599 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: for people who now can't say climate change is real 600 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: to find a way of like having permission to say 601 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: what they want to say because they've seen it with 602 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: their own eyes. Yeah. Better. Also, they don't want to 603 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: say it, but. 604 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,959 Speaker 2: No, I mean I did an episode about this after 605 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 2: the R and C because I talked with Yeah, yeah, 606 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: this like Republican conservation group about how they're trying to 607 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 2: bring back like put the conservative back in conservation Jesus. 608 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think generally, generally the idea of them 609 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: conserving anything is pretty much off the table at this point. 610 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, people getting out in public land, will you 611 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: will understand climate change. You spend long enough going to 612 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: the same spot, and you're going to see what that means. 613 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: So it has a lot of benefits. Go outside this weekend, 614 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: go camping. It's great desert season right now. If you're 615 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: within range of a desert, go camping in the desert. 616 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: Look at the stars to find a dark sky area 617 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: if that's your thing. ARII who had the like, don't 618 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: go shopping on Black Friday. Go outside. You don't remember this, 619 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: It's okay, this is just shit. 620 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: That's I you know, I am pro gazing at the 621 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 2: flickering lights of civilization Garrison. 622 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: No one wants to see the fucking flickering lights of civilization. 623 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: I do, I do, I don't. I want to see 624 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: the stars. I camped in Chaco Canyon earlier this year. 625 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: Banger of a national park. That's my it's my final tip. 626 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: View of the Great House at Chaco Canyon was the 627 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: largest building constructed in the United States until eighteen eighty. 628 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, it is vast. It's one of the 629 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: least visited parks in the system because you have to 630 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 1: go like seventeen miles down in dirt road. Sure, but 631 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: incredible that these are the ancestral Pueblo and it's right 632 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: like the people who are the ancestors of the Pueblo 633 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: tribes today. But it's an amazing place to go. Check out. 634 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: You should all go, not at once. There's not enough 635 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: space for all of you. 636 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just throlling through Mike Lee's Twitter account. 637 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,240 Speaker 1: Now, oh yeah, you got any bangers? 638 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 2: Uh? Not really really not really. I mean he's he's 639 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: whining about Zoron and posting a lot about Charlie Kirk 640 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 2: and that's mostly See, he. 641 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: Doesn't even talk about this stuff because no one likes it. 642 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: He got hammered by a bunch of like very right 643 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: wing rancher types on Twitter last time he tried to 644 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: do this. 645 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:20,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense. 646 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,479 Speaker 1: I think he knows better because a lot of people. 647 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: You can also graze cattle on public land. Right, there's 648 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: been a whole standoff about this. Long time listeners will 649 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: remember the Bundy situation. But yeah, linked to I guess 650 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: he's also pissed those people off. Now. I just went 651 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: to search for the news coverage of this. The only 652 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: thing we can find is a Washington Examiner. So it's 653 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: it's just us and them. Got the video. The auto 654 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: players on the Washington Examiner page is petrifying. 655 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 2: The true bastions of journalists and the Washington. 656 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: Horseshoes theory come to life. Oh god, all right, I 657 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: go outside. This week's last weekend. Don't go to we 658 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: go outside. Go outside tomorrow. Bye. 659 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 660 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 661 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,439 Speaker 2: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 662 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 663 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: now find sources for it Could Happen here listed directly 664 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 2: in episode descriptions. 665 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.