1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and SMITHA. I'm welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: I never told you production, but iHeart radio and just 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: time for another edition of Female First, which means we 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: are once again joined by You're gregarious, the grounded eaves, 5 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 2: Welcome Eves. 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 3: Thank you for that introduction, Thank you for the welcome Grounded. 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: That's right, Oh, I bought I was big word grounded, gregarious, gregarious. 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: I think you're grounded. I appreciate that you are very grounded. 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: I will give you that. 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 3: I feel like it varies from moment to moment. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: That's true. I think that's a fair thing all of 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: us in general. You know, some some days you have 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 2: to day you're not so grounded, and that's just how 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: it is. We're all making it through the best we can. 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: H Well, we are always always happy to have you. E. 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: What have you been up to since the last time 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: we spoke a lot? 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 3: I am just getting back to Georgia from I was 19 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: on the West coast for like a month, So I 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: went from northern California in Sonoma County, like chilling looking 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: at the nice view, staring at a vineyard across the street, 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: hanging out with two cats, like living a very living 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 3: a very peaceful. Oh there was a garden. I picked 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 3: like fresh stuff from their garden every day at the 25 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: house I was staying at. 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: It was really really lovely. 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: And then did a little hop skip to San Francisco 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: to a day to see a band, and then it 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: was a show that I was trying to catch and 30 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: it just like worked out perfectly to the one day 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 3: I had between cities. It just so happened that was 32 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: the day they were performing in the city that was 33 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: closest to me. So yeah, So I did that, and 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 3: then I went over to Seattle and spent two weeks 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: there at a couple of friends home house sitting for them, 36 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 3: and that was the last month for me. I got 37 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: back earlier this month and that was a nice time 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 3: in Seattle too, Like it was like my third time 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: there this year, so I was like coming back hanging 40 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: out with some folks. 41 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: I felt like I. 42 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: Was going on a bunch of go sees to friends, 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 3: like hanging out with friends while I was there. But 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: it was really nice. 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. See there's that gregariousness. 46 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: And you are coming at us from a library, and 47 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: we were just talking about how amazing libraries are. 48 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: Yes, if you start me on this subject, I will 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 3: never end. So I'm gonna, yes, we're all big fans. 50 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 3: I'm going to stay succinct. But I was just telling 51 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: them how there are so many different resources at different libraries. 52 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 3: And I was just telling them how I noticed in 53 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: certain parts of towns some are more well resourced than others. 54 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 3: But I mean, just I think the message here is 55 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 3: just to explore or all the libraries that you can 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: get to, because some might have things that you never 57 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: knew you want it, and you can go to them 58 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: and get them. The one that I'm at now has 59 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 3: craft classes and a craft room with sewing machines and 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: supplies already there. So if you don't have space at home, 61 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 3: or if you don't have objects, like you don't have 62 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: a sewing machine, you don't have a button press, you 63 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: don't have things you need to make it, maybe your 64 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: library does. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe there's another one in 65 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: an area close to you that does. But they just 66 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: I just love libraries so much. Shout out to all 67 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: the librarians, like shout out, shout out to them, like 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: I love libraries. 69 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Yes we do too. 70 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: I feel like every time Samitha and I have traveled together, 71 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: we have stopped at a library, We've gone out of 72 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: our way just. 73 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: They're so cool. They're so cool, aren't they? 74 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: Speaking of I love the person you bought today. I 75 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: really enjoyed looking at the photography. It was a wonderful 76 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 2: excuse to look at some just stunning photography. So I 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: can't wait to talk about it. Who did you bring 78 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: for us today? 79 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: Eves? 80 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 3: Today we are talking about homey Vera Wala, and I 81 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: am so excited to talk about her too. I was 82 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: really excited to find her work because I wasn't familiar 83 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: with her before I started looking up her story. She 84 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: was India's first female photo journalist and she was good 85 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: at her job. That you can find some photos of 86 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 3: hers online, Go look through them, enjoy them. It's like, 87 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: of course, photojournalism is always it captures a time so 88 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: beautifully and Home I really enjoyed her job while she 89 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: was doing it, and she had a long and illustrious career. 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 3: So I too, am so excited to talk about her. 91 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: I have so much to say, Like I don't even 92 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: know if we have enough time to get through her 93 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: entire story, but I do want to say that for 94 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: this I used a lot of India and Focused Camera 95 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 3: Chronicles of Homai Vera Wala. It's a book by Sabina 96 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: Gotti hook I hope I'm pronouncing that last name correctly, 97 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: But if you look up that name India and Focus 98 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 3: Camera Chronicles of Homai Vera Wala. A lot of the 99 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: info that I'm going to be saying today I got 100 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 3: from that book and it is. If you can get 101 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: your hands on a copy of that book, just look 102 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: through the pictures in there, because it's all compounded in 103 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 3: there in a in a comprehensive way. So if if 104 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 3: you can find that book, get it, read it, look 105 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 3: at the photos. 106 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: It's really really lovely. Maybe request it at your local library. Yes, yes, 107 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: but should we get into the history. 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: Yes. 109 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 3: So Hamai was born on December ninth, nineteen thirteen. Her 110 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 3: parents were Dasabi and Sunami ha Tiram. Her father, Dasabi 111 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 3: was a painter, but he did turn to acting for 112 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: work since that was what was going to pay the bills. 113 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 3: He worked with the Traveling Parsi Theater Come Company. And 114 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 3: you'll hear Parsi come up again in this conversation because 115 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: her family was Parsi. The Parsis are people who descended 116 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: from Persian Zoroastrians who fled to India to avoid religious persecution. 117 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 3: So when Helmi was a baby, she went around with 118 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: her father's troop across India and Southeast Asia. And she 119 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 3: had two brothers, but they were sent to live with 120 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 3: their grandparents in Bombay, which is now Mumbai. You hear 121 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 3: me refer to some of these cities and their colonial names, 122 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: that's because that's what they were called at this time. 123 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: But I'll also refer to their modern names when they 124 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 3: first come up, just so y'all know. But when Hami 125 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: turned two years old, an astrologer predicted that she was 126 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 3: destined to walk among royalty and important people. I love 127 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 3: that part of her story. But Hemi knew or do. 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 3: Her parents were intent on her learning English though she 129 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: enrolled in the Grand Road High School and when she 130 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: enrolled there were only six or seven girls in her school, 131 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 3: but by the time she was about to graduate, she 132 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: was the only girl in a class of thirty five boys. 133 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: And while they were in Bombay, the family moved from 134 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: one house to the next depending on how their money 135 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: was doing. But as as far as home, iid like 136 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 3: people considered her well dressed, and she said that it 137 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: was her job every Sunday to wash the saris. Sometimes 138 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: she would make clothing. She would stitch matching blouse with 139 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 3: a bunch of cloth. But still at this time the 140 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: family didn't have a whole ton of money. When her 141 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 3: school fee was increased up to seven rupees, she told 142 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: the headmaster that she was going to drop out, but 143 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 3: he ended up making an exception for her and she 144 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: only had to pay a little bit over through three 145 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 3: rupees for the rest of the time she was in school. 146 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: So just for a little background or her school experience. 147 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 3: In the Parsi schools, it was encouraged for children often 148 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 3: not to become involved in politics, and Homi couldn't wear 149 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: a cotton sorry because of his associations with the nationalist movement, 150 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: and at the time Parsis were kind of thought of 151 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: as being friendly to the Indians and loyal to the British. 152 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: But in terms of her home life, in nineteen thirty one, 153 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: her father found out that his theater company was shutting 154 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: down and Helmi did pass her exams and he wrote 155 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: a letter to Homi. Her dad did and he said 156 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: he was proud of her, but he was sorry that 157 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 3: he couldn't send her any money to help with her tuition, 158 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: and in his last letter he mentioned that the owner 159 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: of the theater company hadn't responded about paying him. And 160 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: just so y'all know too. If y'all get your hands 161 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: on that book, you can there are some images of 162 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: some of those letters as well, so you can kind 163 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 3: of read through those. But her father was in Burma 164 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: which is now me and Mar and he was really 165 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: sick and he finally had gathered up enough money to 166 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: return home, but he died soon after he had surgery 167 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: at a hospital in Bombay. Unfortunately, Homi was pretty young 168 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: at the time, so her mother wore a black sorry 169 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: a lot. She didn't leave the house much after that happened. 170 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 3: But Homai was getting older and so she met someone 171 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: named Menekshaw in nineteen twenty six at a railway station 172 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 3: and he was playing with developing film and so Homai 173 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: ended up getting into that too, and they also got 174 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: into a relationship. So this is the beginnings of her 175 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 3: interest in photography. Anyway, Homi attended Saint Xavier's in Bombay 176 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: for economics for a couple of years, and at first 177 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: her college education was funded by a scholarship from a 178 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: Parsi charity. She also went to the school called the 179 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: JJS School of Arts to get a diploma in the 180 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 3: arts teacher's course, and while she was at that school, 181 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 3: she would take photos of the activities there and she 182 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 3: borrowed one of Manekshaw's cameras to take the photos. She 183 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 3: later said that the training that she got while she 184 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 3: was there in classical composition was really helpful for her photography. 185 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 3: And so at the time Homey and meneck Shaws, their 186 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: photos were getting them about one or two rupees per print, 187 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: so she was getting paid for her photos, even though 188 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 3: it was a little at the time, she was getting paid, 189 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: and she said that the first thing they would do 190 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 3: with their money is go to the movie theater. Some 191 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: of the movies that home I liked were been her 192 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: Going with the Wind, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Scarface, 193 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 3: and some other movies. So she clearly had a y range. Yeah, 194 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 3: I know, Samantha's like, huh, that's a that's an interesting variety. 195 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: Broad Scarface and gone with that eclectic. 196 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 3: Homi began her career in photography by assisting Manekshaw and 197 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 3: her photos and accompanying text. They were initially printed under 198 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: his name and they were credited with his initials. So 199 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 3: some of the photos you'll see if you look at 200 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 3: the clips, you'll see his initials under them. But she 201 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 3: took them. But Holmi was less interested in studio photography, 202 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 3: which she called armchair photography, and so she was she 203 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: was she already kind of knew her lane from early on, 204 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: it seemed like in her In the thirties and the forties, 205 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 3: she took photos of urban and suburb urban life and Bombay. 206 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: Some of her early photos were published in Parsi newspapers 207 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 3: and she and Manekshaw took photos of the streets, festivals, 208 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 3: and the work in day to day activities of the 209 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 3: people who lived in those places. When World War two began, 210 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: she put together photo stories on the war effort, and 211 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 3: a lot of these stories were first printed in the 212 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 3: Illustrated Weekly of India. And that weekly was edited by 213 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: an English guy and often uplifted British interests in India 214 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 3: and British supported media needed to encourage Indians to support 215 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 3: the British war effort, even though Indians at the time 216 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: were also organizing for their own independence from the British, 217 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 3: but Helmi ended up marrying Menekshaw on January nineteenth, nineteen 218 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 3: forty one, and she continued to take pictures. So in 219 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 3: some of her earlier spreads she would also show Parsi 220 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: women who were trained for rescue activities during the war. 221 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 3: She also showed women in domestic and public life in 222 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: other ways. Most of those women in there were Parsi 223 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 3: and British women, and eventually Menekshaw was offered a job 224 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 3: with the Far Eastern Bureau, so they moved from Bombay 225 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 3: to Delhi when Homai was seven months pregnant. She ended 226 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 3: up having her child. It was a son named for Rouke, 227 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: and so the family dynamic started to change. She had 228 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: a family, she was growing her family, and Menexshaw was 229 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 3: managing the family's money. He though, wasn't as adventurous and 230 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 3: social as Homi. He kind of went from the home 231 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 3: to the office and back, which meant that Homi kind 232 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: of had to be like that too. But she did 233 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: work as a press photographer for the British Information Services 234 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: and she did that all the way up until nineteen 235 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 3: fifty one, and afterwards she continued to work for them 236 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: as a freelancer, but we'll get to that a little later. 237 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: But yeah, she worked really hard to balance her photography 238 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: life in her home life, and she would do a 239 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: lot of dark room work as well. She would be 240 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 3: up at like four point thirty in the morning to 241 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: get milk, and then she would get back after midnight 242 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: after photographing some event, and then she's so here's a 243 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: quote from her. She said this, I would be rushing 244 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: between the kitchen where something was cooking in the dark 245 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 3: room where I was developing. And she also said this, 246 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 3: in the meantime, the phone would ring and I would 247 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: have to change and rush out to take pictures, and 248 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: then she would go on to say later I would 249 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: return to the half cooked food and change again. It 250 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: was a mad rush, but fun. So that feels like 251 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 3: a great like imagery, really like a tangible way of 252 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: feeling how between her foot, how much she was going 253 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: between her photography life and her home life, Like she 254 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: was literally putting down some of the domestic activities that 255 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: she was doing going out to photograph and coming back. 256 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: So I mean, man, I mean that sounds tiring to me, 257 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: but she was doing it, and she was doing it often. 258 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 3: But in terms of her own personal interest. She liked 259 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 3: crime and detective books. She also liked reading books on 260 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: alternative medicine and cooking, and she biked to work for 261 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: a long time, but in nineteen fifty five she and 262 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 3: her husband ended up buying a fiat. But of course 263 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: there was a lot going on in India at the time, 264 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 3: so during partition, violence came really close to the Vera 265 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 3: Wallas and Connot place, which is where they lived. Her 266 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 3: landlords were Muslim. They had to leave their home and 267 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: flee to the camps, and Hindu families were throwing burning 268 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: rags into the family owned shop that was below their place, 269 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 3: and she said, we would keep big vessels full of 270 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 3: water ready to put out the fire and would stand 271 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: on the balcony laughing and talking so that people would 272 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 3: think that a Parsi family stayed there. She said that 273 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 3: they stayed dressed all the time in case there was 274 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: an emergency. And eventually the Hindu family came and occupied 275 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 3: the shop and forced one of the landlord's sons to 276 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 3: sign away the property at knife point. So in the 277 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 3: nineteen thirties, the colonial state put restrictions on the publication 278 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: of images of nationalist leaders in newspapers, but there were 279 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: still freelance photographers who were documenting events that were happening 280 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: in the freedom struggle, and Homi was taking photos of politicians. 281 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: And one of the politicians that she took photos of 282 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 3: was Jawaharlal Nahru, and she took photos of him like 283 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 3: the most. He liked being photographed and he would often 284 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 3: put on a show for pictures, so he was a 285 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 3: good subject of her photographs as well. Homi said that 286 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: she had a lot of patients and she would wait 287 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 3: until the people she was photographing were relaxed in front 288 00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: of the camera. So she described how oftentimes other people 289 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 3: had already they thought they had gotten a shot the 290 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 3: thing had happened, So she would stick around and so 291 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 3: she would get more dynamic images, images that other people 292 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 3: weren't getting because of the patients that she had. She 293 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: said she liked to use low angle shots. She used 294 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 3: daylight flash for the people who are interested in the 295 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 3: technicals of it, and backlighting to highlight her subjects amongst 296 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 3: their surroundings. And big night, the night India got its independence, 297 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: of course, Homi was going to want to catch some photos. 298 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 3: That was in August of nineteen forty seven, Homi went 299 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: to the Parliament House to cover it, but because she 300 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 3: was with the British Information Services, she wasn't let in, 301 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 3: but she was able to take photos of the celebratory 302 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 3: events that followed. So there are some interesting points about 303 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: what people liked and didn't like because she was photographing 304 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 3: all these dignitaries and important people. And one of the 305 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: other people that she photographed was Gandhi, so he didn't 306 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 3: like camera flashes, though so very different than Nru. He 307 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 3: reportedly said to her when she took one picture, this 308 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: girl will not rest until she makes me blind. The 309 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 3: day that Gandhi was assassinated, she was on her way 310 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: to record with him, actually, and she had her color 311 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: movie camera at a prayer meeting at beer La House 312 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 3: and her husband told her not to go because he 313 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 3: would join her with a still camera the next day. 314 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 3: But not long after he told her that Gandhi was murdered, 315 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 3: and she missed out on capturing that moment. That moment 316 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: with Gandhi, and during Gandhi's funeral procession, Homi and her 317 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: husband they did get photos. They even have permission from 318 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 3: some of the car owners to stand on their cars 319 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 3: and take pictures, and Homi said that Gandhi teachings like 320 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 3: really resonated with her. She said that she liked his 321 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 3: moral values and how he stood up to the British Empire, 322 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 3: and much more about him. But she said that she 323 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 3: also admired him for his sensible ideas in teachings, many 324 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 3: of which I have always kept in mind. So there 325 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: is a quote that I want to share about Homei 326 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 3: and kind of why she didn't like studio photography. She 327 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: said this, I have never asked anyone to pose for me. 328 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 3: I don't like it because the moment the subjects know 329 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 3: that they are being photographed, a change comes over their countenance. 330 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 3: The whole atmosphere changes. The body becomes stiff and the 331 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 3: eyes open up a bit, which is not natural. When 332 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 3: you take a picture. It's always in a split second. 333 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 3: You either take it or miss it, and that must 334 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 3: be the right moment. So Homi also preferred black and 335 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 3: white photography over color. She actually didn't have a wide 336 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 3: angle or a telephoto lens until later in her career, 337 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: but at first she could work well without having those 338 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 3: because their security at first wasn't a big deal when 339 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 3: she was photographed, so she was able to get a 340 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: little closer to some of her subjects, even though they 341 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: were these big names. She also said that her subjects 342 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: were comfortable with her because they knew that she would 343 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 3: never ridicule them. But she was this is this is funny. 344 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: Homi was accident prone, apparently, fortunately her cameras never took 345 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 3: a big hit, except for once when she broke her 346 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 3: wooden speak gap graphic camera. But she had a friend 347 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 3: whose name was Ajit Singh, who would repair her cameras 348 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 3: and would build makeshift accessories for her. So even though 349 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 3: she was accident prone, she knew she had someone on 350 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 3: her side who worked with her, who was cool with her, 351 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 3: who was good at what they did, even made accessories 352 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 3: for her. So she was gold. She was covered. Even 353 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 3: though she was accident prone. She carried around and I'm 354 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: just imagining this picture of home. I So, first of all, 355 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 3: she's one of the only women who's in a sea 356 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: full of other photojournalists who are men. She's carrying around 357 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: two big bags, so one of them had flash bulbs 358 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 3: in it, the other one had fuse bulbs in it. 359 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 3: She carried two or three cameras, a movie camera sometimes film, 360 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: the flashbox, and a wooden tripod. She used an electronic 361 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 3: flash that weighed like eighteen pounds. So she's carrying around 362 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: these huge, huge bags. It's so much equipment that she's 363 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: carrying around. So I also like, I also kind of 364 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 3: want to give her some grace on being accident prone 365 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 3: because it's a fast paced job. There are going to 366 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: be a lot of people around. The pressure is on 367 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 3: to get the shot. You have to put yourself in 368 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 3: weird positions, especially if you're working with your making do 369 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 3: with the equipment that you have. She didn't have specific lenses, 370 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 3: so I mean, I imagine a lot of times things 371 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 3: were super precarious anyway, So you can't fault her for 372 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 3: having accidents. But there was a time because she liked 373 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 3: wearing a sorry, there was a time when she was 374 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 3: taking a photo in nineteen fifty nine at her story tour, 375 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 3: and after this she switched up her outfits that she 376 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: was wearing that were a little bit more practical for 377 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: her work. She also talked about how developing film was 378 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: like cooking, so she did it measure chemicals a. 379 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: Lot of the time. 380 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 3: She just knew how to put in different things. She 381 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 3: knew how much to put in. After she had been 382 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 3: working in a dark room so much home. I captured 383 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 3: photographs of lots of events that were happening, like the 384 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 3: first Republic Day celebrations and the ceremony where doctor Rajender 385 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 3: Pisah became the first President of independent India. And she 386 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 3: said that of all of the leaders that she took 387 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 3: photos of, she really liked ho Chi Minh the most 388 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 3: because of his simplicity and his humility. In nineteen sixty one, 389 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 3: when the British Royal couple visited India, Homai was the 390 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: only photographer who was allowed in when the entourage went 391 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 3: into Victoria Memorial in Calcutta which is now Kolkatta. But 392 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: one of the British High Commissions tried to block her 393 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 3: view when she was shooting a portrait of the Queen, 394 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: and Homai apparently said this, remember this is not the 395 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 3: British raj. You are allowed here only as our guests, 396 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 3: so behave like one. And then she said the Queen 397 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 3: must have hurt me as she was only five or 398 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 3: six feet away. I'm told that the Left Front government 399 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 3: has now removed the statues surrounding the Victoria Memorial. I 400 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 3: feel sorry about that. You can't erase history like this. 401 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 3: So yeah, I haven't seen whish I had seen video 402 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 3: of these some of these encounters that she was having, 403 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 3: But it's just really fascinating to me to think about 404 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 3: how she was in so many rooms in such a 405 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 3: fraught time over the course of such a pivotal moment 406 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 3: in history, and she was present but also in a 407 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 3: way kind of like a fly on the wall, but 408 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: also was able to form relationships with some of these people. 409 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 3: Some of these people which because she was photographing so often, 410 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 3: I imagine they were a little deeper. But also it wasn't 411 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 3: necessarily like they were always friendly relationships, So that kind 412 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 3: of space she was moving in where she was that 413 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 3: were farsenable. You know, they had friendly relationships, but it 414 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 3: wasn't friends. It's very interesting to me. So Homai also 415 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 3: documented to Dalai Lama's crossing into India in nineteen fifty 416 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: six for Time Life. 417 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: But things were. 418 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: Changing for photography and photographers a lot in nineteen sixty 419 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: nine and dearra Gandhi became the Prime Minister of India. 420 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 3: But over the next few years, inflation was growing, so 421 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: was corruption. There was a lot of social upheaval and 422 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 3: Prime Minister. Gandhi's security kept photographers from getting too close 423 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 3: at this point, and Homai was becoming more disillusioned with 424 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 3: how democracy was evolving in India. She said this, there 425 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 3: was no doubt that I was very happy in the 426 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 3: British Raj because there was law and order in all 427 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 3: kinds of facilities. We didn't have shortages. We had never 428 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 3: heard the word pollution or adulteration or corruption. All these 429 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 3: words came later. Independence came on a platter. It is 430 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 3: only a few people who suffered and fought for it, 431 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: and the rest had nothing to do with it. It 432 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 3: came so easy to everybody that nobody appreciates it. Now 433 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 3: freedom became a license to do what they liked. So, 434 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: of course Homi was telling certain stories through the photo 435 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 3: she was taking, but she also had her own opinions. 436 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: She at this time ended up voting against the Congress 437 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 3: Party for the first time in her life, and these 438 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 3: were some of her feelings about the politics in the 439 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: way that society was changing. There was also, of course, 440 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 3: the gender issue. Women saw Homi as different because of 441 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 3: her job, because she was the first female press fertial 442 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 3: journalist and indie. Yeah, and also men were hesitant to 443 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: talk to her, according to Homi, but she said that 444 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 3: they made it clear that their wives and daughters shouldn't 445 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 3: do what she did. But at the same time, Homi 446 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 3: would collaborate with her male colleagues and sometimes they would 447 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: even like trade negatives, even though they worked for different agencies. 448 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 3: And Homia's assignments took her all over India. She had 449 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 3: no guys on all of her trips. She would often 450 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 3: benefit from the kindness of strangers, especially when she would 451 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: have no prior arrangements in a place. And there are 452 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 3: some stories about how how the how these interactions would happen, 453 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 3: So there there's there are are some some some spiritual 454 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 3: elements of the work that Homi was doing. I know 455 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 3: at first we talked about this this astral in the 456 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 3: beginning of her story who said that she would be 457 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: around all these dignitaries and these important people, and that 458 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 3: did end up happening in her life. But she also 459 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 3: talked about how people would show up at the right time, 460 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 3: and I'm kind of obsessed with this idea. In the book, 461 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: it's a few moments that stand out about somebody being 462 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 3: there for her when she was lost and couldn't find 463 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 3: her way, and all of a sudden, this person appeared 464 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 3: on her path, and because of that, she now had 465 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 3: a car and a driver that could take her around 466 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 3: to the place that she needed to go to. She 467 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 3: might not have gotten the greatest pictures on that trip, 468 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: but she was able to get some photos because of 469 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: that person who showed up. She knaxture or she went 470 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: somewhere and she hadn't planned accommodations and all of a 471 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 3: sudden somebody showed up and they had a place where 472 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 3: she could stay and then she could eat meals. And 473 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: it kind of stresses me out thinking about moving this way, 474 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 3: but it also makes a lot of sense for her 475 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 3: disposition and how she liked to be. 476 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: She was a press. 477 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: Photographer, she liked to do street photography. She liked more 478 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: spontaneous moments. She didn't like stage moments. So it also 479 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,479 Speaker 3: really makes sense for her to be open to just 480 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: being like, I'm going I don't really know, I don't 481 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 3: have a very meticulous itinerary planned out for what I'm doing, 482 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 3: but you know it's going to work out, and it 483 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: did a lot of the time for her. So she 484 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 3: got that evidence, so it's heck, hey, I guess I'll 485 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 3: do it this way again. But she was also very 486 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 3: involved in the photographer's world, her community. She and her 487 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: friends formed the News Cameramen's Association, which was one of 488 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 3: the first unions of photographers in independent India. She was 489 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: one of the association's presidents and a lot of other 490 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,959 Speaker 3: people liked her. They looked up to her. She was 491 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 3: an authoritative voice as well well. Her nickname was Mummy, 492 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: and she said this nickname helped put her on a pedestal, 493 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: which gave her an advantage, so people called her that, 494 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 3: But it's like it also gave her this aura of 495 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 3: having authority. There was this persona that she had that 496 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 3: kind of kept people at a distance. She said that 497 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 3: she was always in the crowd, but not a part 498 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 3: of the crowd. And she also said that she was 499 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: really stern and professional settings. She said, quote, there was 500 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 3: no hanky panky. Yeah, I know, like as in there 501 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: it was no funny business. There was no back and 502 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 3: forth when she was around, like she came to do 503 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 3: her job. So when next Shaw died in May of 504 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, it was pretty tragic. He had drunk 505 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 3: an anti termite solution that he thought was medicine he 506 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 3: was supposed to take and he died and that was 507 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 3: of course a really sad moment for Hamai. And at 508 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 3: the same time, Delhi was changing. Like we just talked about, 509 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: photography was changing. There was a new generation of photographers 510 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 3: and Homai was kind of feeling like these photographers weren't 511 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 3: the same as they used to be. There was also 512 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: more security around her photography subjects and a lot of 513 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 3: her photography colleagues were also dying. And her son was 514 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 3: working at the Beerla Institute of Technology and Science and Polani, 515 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 3: which is west of New Delhi, and he asked. 516 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: Homi to join him. 517 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: So she sold her house in has Kas in Delhi 518 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: and she stopped taking pictures and she said, it was 519 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 3: just like that. One day, I decided that this is enough. 520 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 3: She told all her colleagues she was done with photography. 521 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: And she said this it was the same routing going 522 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: out taking pictures, and things were not that exciting any longer. 523 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 3: When something goes down, you do not want to go 524 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: down with it. You have reached a particular peak where 525 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 3: you have taken the best of things. I had shot 526 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 3: important people from all over the world. You do not 527 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,479 Speaker 3: want to go for small things then for people who 528 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 3: are not gracious, dignified and sincere I missed that graciousness, 529 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 3: and when it was gone, my interest in photography was 530 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: gone as well. I think that that is very interesting. 531 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I think anybody who's been working over so 532 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: many decades in a specific industry will feel some of that, 533 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 3: especially an artistic one and one that involves technology. I'm 534 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 3: sure y'all can relate. Y'all are in the podcast world 535 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 3: and seeing how things are changing in technology. At the 536 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 3: same time, the culture around photography was changing too, the 537 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 3: way that people were interacting with their photography subjects the 538 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 3: photographers were changing, and so I think that's interesting. But 539 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: I think that's also paired with Homi's feelings about politics. 540 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 3: So we kind of also talked about how she was 541 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 3: nostalgic about the old times under colonial rule and how 542 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 3: they were different, how they were more refined, how they 543 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: were polished. So there's definitely a personal political bent here 544 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 3: in her feelings about how things were changing, and that 545 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 3: is nuanced. 546 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: So some of these things. 547 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 3: That were actually the difficulties of the turbulence of so 548 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 3: much political change happening, and also a little bit of 549 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: nostalgia for the old times, old way. We're all joining 550 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: with the fact that she had been doing this for 551 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 3: so long and things in her family were changing and 552 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 3: she was losing people. I'm sure that was very difficult. 553 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 3: So she was in Polani now and she joined the 554 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 3: ladies club, She took on new hobbies like macromay, and 555 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 3: once Indira God dimentioned Homai in an interview, people in 556 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 3: Polani began to learn about her previous life as a 557 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 3: press photographer, and so there was all this chatter about 558 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: her news is spreading. She was starting to get all 559 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 3: these requests for work, but she just kept on doing 560 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 3: things like cooking, going to ladies club and gardening. She 561 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 3: wasn't worried about taking no photos no more. And she 562 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 3: said it was in Polani that she understood women could 563 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 3: be good friends too, and that she shouldn't be afraid 564 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 3: of them. Now. 565 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 1: Look, I know. 566 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 3: When I was reading this, I was thinking about this 567 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 3: in modern times, how often times people are like, I 568 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 3: don't have women friends. You know, women are this way, 569 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 3: they're caddy to each other if they're in groups. All 570 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 3: of these like very gendered feelings about women creating friendships 571 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 3: with women and bonding with other women. But I know 572 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 3: that we also have to consider that Homai was also 573 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 3: truly the only woman doing what she was doing. She 574 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 3: was a pioneer, and that she talked about some of 575 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 3: the actual experiences she had making difficulty and how this 576 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 3: was also her I mean, having difficulty with making friends 577 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 3: with other women, and how some of this was also 578 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 3: on her as well. So she did have these friendships. 579 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 3: And this seems like a hard turn now being in 580 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 3: a ladies club after saying that you had difficulty being 581 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 3: friends with women before. 582 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, so she was. 583 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 3: Her son, for Ruke got married in nineteen seventy five 584 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 3: and after that she stayed with them, but she didn't 585 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 3: adjust will to this new arrangement, and so she checked 586 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 3: herself herself into an elderly home in Calcutta. But she 587 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 3: had a dream when these spiritual things going on. Now, Yeah, 588 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: interesting choice that for Ruke was sick three months after 589 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 3: that and she moved back to Polani. It turned out 590 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 3: that he did have typhoid at the time, but it 591 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,399 Speaker 3: wasn't until years later that he was diagnosed with bow 592 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 3: cancer and he died on January fourth, nineteen eighty eight. 593 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 3: And after her son died, she thought that nobody would 594 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 3: be interested in some of her footage. She said that 595 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: a whole box full of what she considered her best 596 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: negatives got lost when she was moving from Polani to Baroda. 597 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: She said she looked everywhere for them, but they were gone. 598 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 3: And she said, after having kept many negatives in prints 599 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 3: for twenty three years without anyone ever knowing she had 600 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 3: been a photographer, she burnt some of them and Polani, 601 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 3: and she also threw away a whole box full of 602 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 3: movie films. After her son died in Baroda, she said quote, 603 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 3: I don't think I understood the value of my own pictures. 604 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 3: I really regret that now. That just makes me so sad. 605 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 3: But after he died, she spent the rest of her 606 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 3: life in Baroda. She had no pension, she was a freelancer, 607 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 3: but even so she gave away a lot of the 608 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 3: money that she did have to charity. And she had 609 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 3: a long standing friendship with Hugh McInnis, who was her 610 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 3: former Australian boss at the Far Eastern Bureau, and the 611 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 3: two of them kept in touch until he died in 612 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 3: two thousand and four, and he wrote lots of letters 613 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 3: to her over the fifty years that they were friends 614 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 3: from the fifties to the nineties, and they some of 615 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 3: those letters. You can see those images of those letters 616 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 3: also in the book that I mentioned of top, So 617 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 3: those are interesting to see kind of a correspondence between 618 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 3: the two of them and how she was thinking about 619 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 3: photography and about some of her personal relationships that she 620 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 3: had with people. So on her politics a little bit, 621 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 3: she said this, People often say to me, are you 622 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 3: supporting the British? Were you not glad about independence? Of 623 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 3: course I was happy about freedom, but everyone is not 624 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 3: the same. There were also good things about some Britishers 625 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 3: that I admired. Many say that they exploited us financially. 626 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,840 Speaker 3: What about the India Maharajas had they not exploited ordinary 627 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 3: people for years? It's not as simple as being for 628 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 3: or against the British. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in between. 629 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 3: So I think it's interesting to think about her personal 630 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 3: politics in the context of her being a fertile journalist 631 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 3: and a pioneering woman photojournalist at the time. So Homi, 632 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 3: like a lot of the other people we've talked about 633 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 3: in Female First, kind of had this like rediscovery. So 634 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 3: after Homi stopped taking photographs. She said that she didn't 635 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 3: miss photography, but she did say that after this rediscovery 636 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 3: of her work happened, it felt like a weight because 637 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 3: she was having to think about how to preserve her 638 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 3: work and that had become a burden to her. So 639 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 3: her you can see a little bit more about her 640 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 3: life and how the author spoke with her in this 641 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 3: time after her photography, after her son died in the book, 642 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 3: and about how it seemed like it was a really 643 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,839 Speaker 3: peaceful life. She was really integrated into the community, cared 644 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 3: about it, cared about the children who were around her, 645 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 3: cared about keeping the area clean. So she became a 646 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 3: member of that community. And when this book was written, 647 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,399 Speaker 3: it was released before she died. She didn't die until 648 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 3: January fifteenth, twenty twelve, when she was ninety eight years old, 649 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 3: So she lived a long life. And this is not 650 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 3: like every story we talk about on female first Sometimes 651 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 3: we're missing a lot of that person's work. They weren't 652 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 3: recognized until many, many years after their death. Even in 653 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 3: this case, her biography was documented in a lot of 654 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 3: her words through direct relationship with her, through the author 655 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 3: of that book, and a lot of her photographs still exist, 656 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 3: a lot of her letters still exist, and we get 657 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 3: to know about her her story. So that's that's the 658 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 3: end of her eyes story. 659 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 4: Man, she outlived everyone. 660 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, honestly, twenty twelve is not that long ago, right, seriously. 661 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 4: Well that makes sense of like her liking these different 662 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,919 Speaker 4: rains of movies. I was like, oh, okay, that makes 663 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 4: that makes sense. 664 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 2: I love that so much was documented about her. She 665 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 2: seems like such a very interesting, multifaceted person and she 666 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 2: did have a lot of interests that kind of surprised me. Yeah, like, oh, 667 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 2: these movies are oh Macro may Era, Yeah, just. 668 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,319 Speaker 1: Which I love. 669 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 2: And I'm really glad to have this context of how 670 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 2: she liked to photograph people, because I think that will 671 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 2: help me appreciate the photographs more because they do look 672 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 2: like I love the lighting in them, and I like 673 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 2: it is natural light generally, But it does look like 674 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 2: she just was snatched something in the right moment and 675 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 2: she captured this thing and to hear that that was 676 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 2: so important to her and she really did it. 677 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: Like it. They're kind of arresting images. 678 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 2: I don't know how to describe it, but listeners go 679 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: look it up, because she really did capture. 680 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 3: So much, and just these images she was taking. I 681 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 3: really enjoyed looking at her photographs. I really felt like 682 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 3: I was put in the moments she was in. I 683 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 3: really felt like I felt the energy of whatever was 684 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 3: happening in the moment through looking at her pictures, Like 685 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 3: she really clearly did have a gift for taking these 686 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 3: photos and was very dedicated to it, clearly like she 687 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 3: spoke about her patients. And I think there was even 688 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 3: a moment that I didn't talk about in the episode 689 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 3: where she was photographing someone and I think she was 690 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 3: on top of some boxes and ended up falling off 691 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 3: of them because the room was small and she didn't 692 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,520 Speaker 3: have like a wide angle lens and she had to 693 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 3: take the pictures, so she had to get on top 694 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 3: of some boxes and take it from like a top 695 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:23,359 Speaker 3: down perspective, and she fell. So it was a lot 696 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 3: of stuff like that. I think there was another moment 697 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 3: where she got somebody pushed her, and she somebody pushed 698 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 3: somebody else and they got pushed into her, and she 699 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 3: got pushed into somebody, and I think she might have 700 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 3: even gotten shoved into whoever. The dignitary was that she 701 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 3: was photographing Anyway, Look, she did what she had to 702 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,359 Speaker 3: do to get those moments on film, and I can 703 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 3: tell that by looking at her photos. I do really 704 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 3: love her story. I am also fascinated by her politics 705 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 3: and how she said that she felt about other women 706 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 3: and having a hard time getting into relationships like friendships 707 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,720 Speaker 3: with women. So I yeah, I really highly encourage everyone 708 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 3: to look at Home Eyes photos. 709 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 710 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 4: I was just thinking like she was around for all 711 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 4: the big changes when it comes to like photography, the 712 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 4: amount of changes that happened within a short amount of time, 713 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 4: and the discord among photographers, such as like going from 714 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 4: film to digital to photoshop to phones. Like she was 715 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 4: around for all of that. I wonder what her thoughts were. 716 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 4: She also seemed very satisfied, like her lifespan where she's 717 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 4: retired and not have to pick up the pack. Cameragan 718 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 4: speaks about how she felt fulfilled in her work, which 719 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 4: I think rarely anyone can say in their lifetime. 720 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, like she I mean, I think if you 721 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 3: can get to a point where you say I think 722 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 3: I've done enough photography, I'm good with what I've done. 723 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 3: I think that she clearly was satisfied with her work 724 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 3: and also like having to be in those rooms. I'm 725 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,960 Speaker 3: sure it's also it's physically demanding. So there comes a 726 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,879 Speaker 3: point where like I'm sure that you know gets old. 727 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 3: And because she seems like she was satisfied with her 728 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 3: creative work, that was just like, Okay, it's time for 729 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 3: all that to be over and enjoy this next new 730 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 3: phase of my life, which she clearly did since she 731 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 3: started crafting and joining joining groups made. 732 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 2: Some women friends also got to love the astrology part 733 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 2: in the beginning. Worked out, Yes, worked out well. Shout 734 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 2: out to that astrology Well, thank you so much as 735 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 2: always used for being with us. We always love having you. 736 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 2: This was such a great story. This is another one 737 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 2: that I'm like, why we need to see this docuseriies, 738 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 2: I would love it. 739 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: I would love to watch it. 740 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, but where can the good listeners find you? 741 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 3: Y'all can go to my websites probably the easiest. My 742 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 3: website is Eves Jeffcoat dot com. That's spelled y V 743 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 3: S J E F F C A T dot com 744 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,760 Speaker 3: and you can sign up for my lowsletter. You can 745 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 3: get to all the other things from there. But if 746 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 3: you want to go directly to Instagram, you can find 747 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 3: me at not Apologizing. You can also go to many 748 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 3: other episodes here of Stuff Mom Never Told You. There 749 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 3: are plenty, plenty of episodes to dig through of women 750 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 3: in history and their accomplishments and how they pioneered in 751 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 3: their fields. So listen to all those episodes of Female First. 752 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 3: If you haven't, you have a lot of catching up 753 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 3: to do. 754 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,919 Speaker 2: Yes, listeners and go catch up you haven't all well, Yes, 755 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much Eaves for being here. If you 756 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 2: would like to contact us, you can our emails hello 757 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 2: at Stuffannever Told You dot com. We're also on booce 758 00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 2: Gut Mom Stuff podcast on Instagram and TikTok at stuff. 759 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. 760 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,400 Speaker 2: We have some new merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we 761 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 2: have a book you can get wherever you get your books. 762 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 2: Thanks it's always to our super producer Christine or executive 763 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 2: producer My and. 764 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: Your contributor Joey. 765 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never 766 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 2: Told You Instruction by Heart Radio. For more podcast from 767 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,799 Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app, 768 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,040 Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.