1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 2: Let's go. 3 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Let's go Giants. Dont come on my Giants, give me 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: some job. Part of the Giants podcast Network. 5 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 2: Let's roll. 6 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 3: Welcome to the latest edition of the Giants Huddle Podcast, 7 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 3: presented by Citizens, the official bank of the New York Giants. 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 3: We're going to do something a little bit different today 9 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 3: on this episode as we have a very special guest. 10 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 3: But there's a thing or two about the history of 11 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 3: the NFL and cross paths with thousands of players, coaches, 12 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 3: owners and team executives. 13 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: Through his four plus decades with. 14 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: NFL Films as a cinematographer, director, producer and writer, he 15 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 3: only shot more than eight hundred and fifty games and 16 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: forty Super Bowls throughout his career. And now was a 17 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 3: new book out entitled The NFL Off Camera, An a 18 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 3: two Z guide to the league's most memorable players and 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 3: personalities none other than Emmy Award winning NFL Films legend 20 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 3: Bob Angelo, Bobbygoon, Lance Meadow. Here on Giants dot Com, 21 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: appreciate the time, Hope Paul as well. 22 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: How's everything on your end? 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: Life is good here in South Jersey. Five years retired 24 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: NFL Films is around the corner, and don't really miss 25 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: it much. I'm enjoying this new phase. Book promotion and 26 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: publicity are brand new for me. I thought that after 27 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: getting the book published, the hard work was done, and 28 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm discovering that it just begins, you know, as as 29 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: sal pala Antonio reminded me, plug, plug, plug, So again, 30 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. 31 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: Well, we're trying to also aid your cause by plugging 32 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: as much as possible, so you see, we're providing assistance. 33 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: You got me thinking, Bob, because you mentioned you don't 34 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 3: necessarily miss it as much. But I'm curious because we 35 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 3: always talk to players when they retire. They're so used 36 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 3: to a specific schedule that when the game leaves them, 37 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: it's a tough adjustment. When you went through four plus 38 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: decades of routine, was it hard to adjust after it 39 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: just all of a sudden disappeared. 40 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: I've got to tell you that a year or so 41 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: before the league actually asked a lot of us to 42 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: retire the aging workforce at NFL Films, I was pondering 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: at myself, thinking I will probably leave in twenty nineteen 44 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: at age sixty six. When the offer came along, and 45 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: I realized they were going to pay me full salary 46 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: every two weeks for two years. I mean, my mother 47 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: didn't raise me to be stupid, so I said, I 48 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: can do it a year earlier than I thought. You know, 49 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: given the circumstances, I really don't miss it. I mean, 50 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: when I got into my sixties, carrying a camera around 51 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: a sideline and working the way I had to for 52 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: basically counting pregame and postgame nearly five hours with a 53 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: camera on my shoulder, that became a burden. So no, 54 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: I didn't miss that part at all. And some of 55 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: the Monday routines of going through miles and miles of 56 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: film to glean out the shots, the images that NFL 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: films will use in their productions that had gotten pretty 58 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: old for me as well. So no, it wasn't It 59 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: was wasn't difficult at all. I mean, it was amazingly simple. 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: And when people say, oh, you've come on, you've got 61 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: to miss it a little bit, my answer is no, 62 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: I really don't. Eight hundred and fifty plus NFL games, 63 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: forty three plus seasons working in the National Football League, 64 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: I enjoyed almost all those years and all that time 65 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: and all those events, but it was time to move on, 66 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: and I'm glad I did, and no second thoughts, no regrets. 67 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: I look back on it fondly, but I don't look 68 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: back on it longingly. I don't need to go back 69 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: and do that anymore. It was fun while it lasted, 70 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: but you know, I'm onto a new phase in my life. 71 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: And quite an impressive run nineteen seventy five to twenty eighteen. Bob, 72 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 3: you were there in the early stages of when NFL 73 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: films truly blossomed. And for individuals that may be unfamiliar 74 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 3: with your background, you were a quarterback at high school. 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: If I have this right, you went to Penn State. 76 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: So how did the lane open up for NFL films 77 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 3: to bring you and did you ever envision that this 78 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: would ultimately be your career path. 79 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: I targeted NFL films when I was growing up. I 80 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: watched NFL films productions. When I was at Penn State, 81 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: I had two majors, Newspaper journalism and existential philosophy. Well, 82 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 1: I checked the one ads for existential philosophy majors and 83 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: there wasn't much out there. I knew I'd have to 84 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: do a year of graduate school to enhance my resume 85 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: a bit, and so I went to Northwestern got a master's. 86 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: But I started writing to Steve Sable, a name that 87 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: I picked off the credits of an NFL film's production. 88 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: I started writing him my senior year at Penn State, 89 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: and I continue to write to Steve for my full 90 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: year at Northwestern. I would write every other month. I 91 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: would send him articles that I'd written about professional football. 92 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: I would send him scripts of radio shows that I 93 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: did at both Penn State and Northwestern. Sunday the show 94 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: had the same title, it was Pro Football Report. I 95 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: would rip and read wire service copy, except I'd rewrite 96 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: it and make it sound a bit more like me, 97 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: and then I'd add a commentary. So by the time 98 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: NFL Films finally had an opening, they only had twelve 99 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: writer editors at the time. By the time someone decided 100 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: to leave, literally to move to the Caribbean and open 101 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: a tiki hut, Steve had a pretty deep file for me. 102 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: He had my resume, he had my cover letter. But 103 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: he also had a lot of evidence that I was 104 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: serious about pro football, that I knew a lot about 105 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: pro football, that I studied the game, the fact that 106 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: I was a high school quarterback. Always helped because Steve 107 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: was looking for a writers, but be people who understood 108 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: the game and knew you know. Could could go down 109 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: a team roster and say, yeah, this guy's important, this 110 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: guy isn't. Could look at the divisions and say, yeah, 111 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: these teams are the better teams, and so forth. I 112 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: had all that and hired me on June sixth, nineteen seven, 113 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: one thirty five pm. I remember because I looked down 114 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: at my watch and I said, this is big. I 115 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: could be here a while, and sure enough I stayed 116 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: for my entire career. 117 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: It's remarkable in this day and age for somebody to 118 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: stay at one location for four plus decades. That is 119 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 3: absolutely commendable when it comes to being successful in your role, Bob, 120 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: what is the key characteristic? 121 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: Is it the knowledge of the game? 122 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: Is it having the eye to see something on the 123 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: sideline that somebody else doesn't see. If you had to 124 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 3: pinpoint one specific thing, what would it be. 125 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: I think having the basic understanding of how a football 126 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: game works helped me as a cinematographer. Having played the sport, 127 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: I could empathize with what I saw and fell on sidelines. 128 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: I think more than anything else. Steve said, if you 129 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: can write, I can teach you to be a filmmaker. 130 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: I didn't have any real background in editing or in 131 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: all the production skills required of an NFL film's producer director. 132 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: I learned those things there. Steve's feeling was, if you 133 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: could write, that means you can organize your thoughts. That 134 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: means you can do a working outline for a production, 135 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: all the other stuff we can teach you. Editing is 136 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: something that one develops over a period of time. One 137 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: develops his own techniques, his own bent, his own slant 138 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: on things. I think what really helped me more than 139 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: anything that was basically my appreciation for the game. When 140 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: I was a kid, I watched professional football on Sundays. 141 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: No one forced me to watch because I grew up 142 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh and during the sixties, with all due respect 143 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: to the Steelers organization, they stunk. They were horrible. They 144 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: won nothing. They had one game at the end of 145 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty three season, had they beaten the New 146 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: York Giants have gone to the championship game against the 147 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: Chicago Bears. And they didn't win that game, and that 148 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: was their only chance in the sixties so I grew 149 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: up watching football and watching. As you know, I would 150 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: sit there and watch the CBS double header games. Most 151 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: people don't remember that, but CBS was contracted to do 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: the National Football League. They had the San Francisco forty 153 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: nine Ers and the Los Angeles Rams competing on the 154 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: West coast. Somebody at CBS got the idea, Hey, why 155 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: don't since we have to broadcast the game anyway, why 156 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: don't we call it a CBS double header game? And 157 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: every week someone will see either the Rams or the 158 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: forty nine ers. And I watched those games too. I 159 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: watched the old American Football League. I was fascinated by 160 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: the AFL. I thought the Houston Oilers as they recalled 161 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: back in the day, were pretty damn good. And you know, 162 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: I wondered, how would these guys fare against the National 163 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: Football League teams? Well, of course the NFL owners and 164 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: AFL owners were thinking the same things. But it was 165 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: my love of the game, really, that was the most 166 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: important thing, the single most important thing. Because one would 167 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: assume one would grow tired of looking at football footage, 168 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: and I can still look at football footage. I watch 169 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: seven and a half hours of Red Zone every week. 170 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: Every single week. I mean I six and a half 171 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: six and a half hours every single week. My first 172 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: week and off from you know, after having worked for 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: the National Colleague for forty three plus years, I sat 174 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: and watched red Zone. Said to my wife do people 175 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: know about this? She said, I'm pretty sure they do. 176 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: But I mean, it was just I sat there all 177 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: day long. I thought, this is just wonderful. My wife 178 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: brought me food. It's my love of the game that 179 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: that is what carried me. That's what sustained me in 180 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: all the years. I learned the skills to become a 181 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: producer and a director, but the sport itself, the game itself, 182 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: is why I lasted as long as I did. 183 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 3: It's interesting to hear your perspective, Bob, because I want 184 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 3: to bring the player element into play. I think if 185 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 3: you sat down a player and a coach and you 186 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: watch the game with them on television, they probably would 187 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: have that analytical eye that they would bring to the table. 188 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 3: So when you're sitting down for six and a half 189 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 3: hours and watching the game through the red zone, do 190 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: you still have that producer hat on or are you 191 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: still thinking about the great stories within the game, or 192 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: can you sit back and basically eliminate all of those 193 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: thoughts from your process. 194 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: It's all of the above, but it's then some I mean, 195 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at past protections and blit schemes and coverages 196 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: and route combinations, and I'm studying what each team does. 197 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: I still do that, I've always done that. I enjoy 198 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: that part of it. I enjoy the analysis, and then 199 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: I like just being a fan, just rooting for the 200 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: team that you know, in this case, I've lived in 201 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Philadelphia long enough now that I'm an Eagles fan. I've 202 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: been through a number of coaches. You know. Dick Vermio 203 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: wrote one of the endorsements on the back of my book. 204 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: Andy Reid and I became very good friends. It's nice 205 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: just to be a fan, just to root. And sometimes 206 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: I root against teams. I mean, there are certain teams 207 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: I'd like to see them lose every week. I mean, 208 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: when when Sean Payton's Broncos lost seventy to twenty, I 209 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: was kind of rooting for the Dolphins to hang another 210 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: seven points on them. I wanted to see them go down. 211 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: It's you know, I'm a fan, I'm an analyst. I'm 212 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: basically that ten year old kid whose first book was 213 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty three Pro Football Almanac. You know, I'm 214 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: that kid with the Electric football game, you know, numbering 215 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: my players and knowing who each guy on the board was. 216 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: I'm that kid, except now I'm seventy and so when 217 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: I watched today, I'm a fan. I'm an analyst. I 218 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: get very vocal. Sometimes my wife has to say, you know, 219 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: you realize they can't hear you, right, it doesn't matter. 220 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm still yelling at them. I say, don't jump off 221 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: sides again, would you please? And she's saying, who are 222 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: you talking to them? Those? You know, I'm how could 223 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: he not have his eye on the ball? Whise so 224 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: fan first now, but still an analyst, always the analyst, 225 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: always thinking wow, look at that, look at that combination, 226 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: Look at that pick that was great. Look at the 227 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: way they passed off that coverage, or the way they 228 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: went from that double team, the guard went down with 229 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: the second level and picked up the linebacker. Stuff like that. 230 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: Love that. I mean, I as a quarterback, I was 231 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: trying to get my guys to do it in high school. 232 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: And you know, of course professionals do it because that's 233 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: what they're bade to do, but I love all that 234 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: I enjoy. Yeah, the technical side of it, and you know, 235 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: just being a fan. 236 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: Is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of 237 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 3: the New York Giants. From game day to every day, 238 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 3: Citizens is made ready for Giants fans with insights, guidance 239 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: and solutions. Learn more at citizensbank dot com. I want 240 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: to get to the context of that Sean Payden reference 241 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: that you made so our viewers and listeners understand. And 242 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 3: in order to do that, let's bring this great book 243 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 3: into the picture. And for those of you watching on YouTube, 244 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 3: I'm holding it up right now, Bob. 245 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: I want to get to the structure first. 246 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 3: Because you pick up a typical book that's two hundred 247 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: plus pages, you think, Okay, I got to read from 248 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 3: start to finish, and I've got to do it in order. 249 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: You have short stories on a variety of different players, coaches, executives, 250 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: and so forth. So I can read a few and 251 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: then I could put the book down. I could come 252 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 3: back two days later, I could read a few more. 253 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 3: It's a very unique style of reading, at least that 254 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: I found. Why did you choose to structure the book 255 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 3: like that? 256 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: My feeling was that professional football fans consume football in 257 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: three to three and a half hour doses watching their 258 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: favorite team or in my case now watching red Zone. 259 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: But we consume football by watching football, and it's an 260 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: investment in time. These very same people are also running 261 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: their fantasy football teams and going, you know, attending their draft, 262 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: taking care of trades, making their starting lineups, trying to 263 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: keep on top of things. I said to myself, I 264 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: don't want to bore people. I want to give people 265 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: something that they can pick up. Oh, here's here's one 266 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to read about Jim Browner, how about ya tiddle? 267 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: Or let's go to Bill Parcells and learn something new, 268 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: something that they can't find with a Google search or 269 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: on Wikipedia, because each and every story contains a personal experience, 270 00:14:54,080 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: an extended personal experience, usually more than an interview. And 271 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: my basic take on it was, I don't want to 272 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: bore people. I don't want to give people a long 273 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: narrative that they have to feel. Publi you could read 274 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: and learn all about Paul Horning from my perspective, the 275 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: experiences I had with Paul Horning in about eight minutes 276 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: and be done with it. I was calling it for 277 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: the longest time a toilet book. My wife said, no, no, 278 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: it's not a toilet book. It's a coffee table book. Now, 279 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: I'm just saying I can get up, go to the 280 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: bathroom during a commercial break of a football game, read 281 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: a story, come back, and not miss anything. That's why 282 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm calling she's don't call it a toilet book, would 283 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: you please? When I was on Good Morning Football, I 284 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: mentioned that and everybody thought that was kind of kind 285 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: of funny. But it's short stories to me, the way 286 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: to go, I you know, and everyone has a beginning, middle, end, 287 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: basic simple formulaic writing, but at the same time, within 288 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: each story my personal experience with the player or the 289 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: coach or the owner or the front office person or 290 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: the media person. And then organize at alphabetic I call 291 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: it my random access menu. You know who good. I 292 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: always wanted to know something about Auto Graham. Let's find 293 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: out something today, and you know, a little history, my 294 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: personal story with the man or the woman, my personal experiences, 295 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: and you know, and then a conclusion. And you know, 296 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the stories have happy endings. At ten percent, don't, 297 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: I mean they're you know, the National Football League is 298 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: all kinds of people, all sorts of personalities, some of 299 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: them easy to get along with, some of them just 300 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: miserable people, you know, just despicable people. But if they're 301 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: on you know, if if if I had an experience 302 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: with the person and I felt strongly about it, I 303 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: wrote about them or her. And basically the decision was, 304 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: people spend enough time with pro football for their own purposes. 305 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: If they're going to read something about football, I want 306 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: to make it easy for them. 307 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: Well, I want to jump into several Giants connections that 308 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 3: you have throughout the course of your career, and individuals 309 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,239 Speaker 3: could check out your book and reading great detail, but 310 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 3: i'd love to get your synopsis on a few. And 311 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 3: this is where I think the Sean Payton context can 312 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: come back in the conversation because he was an assistant 313 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 3: under Bill Parcells. And I don't think it's a surprise, Bob, 314 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: based on reading your interactions with Sean, that maybe he. 315 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 2: Learned from the guy above. 316 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: But let's start with Bill Parcells, a name that is 317 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: synonymous with Giants fans. 318 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 2: He helped them win a pair of trophies. But as you. 319 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 3: Write in your book, it wasn't necessarily easy warming him up. 320 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 3: So when you look back, how challenging was it to 321 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: pave the path with Bill Parcells? Maybe in comparison to 322 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: any other coach or player that you had to interact with. 323 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: Bill was difficult on game days. He didn't want boom 324 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: microphones extended over his bench. He didn't want cameras prying 325 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: into his personal conversations with players, with his assistant coaches, 326 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: That's just who Bill was. I don't know where he 327 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: learned that. I'm guessing probably with his West Point experience. 328 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to blame the the former coach of the 329 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: University of Miami. I'm going blank on his name here, 330 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: but I believe Bill was on his staff when he 331 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: coached Army. Help me out if you can, if you 332 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: know who I'm talking about here, Yes, yes, Aert Schnellenberger. 333 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: I think that probably his Schnellenberger was the same way. 334 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: When I shot a college football game where he was 335 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: coaching later in his career, he walked down and gave 336 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: me this, you know, get out of here with that camera. 337 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: Bill was aggressive about it, you know, get had blank 338 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: and thing the blank out of here right now, And 339 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: he attacked some of our cameramen on the sideline, not physically, 340 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: but you know he was intimidating. And when Bill, you know, 341 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: when his face got red and his eyes narrowed, he 342 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: could be he could be scary. I respected him, though, 343 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, and hearing later in life, hearing some of 344 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: the things he said and why he felt the way 345 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: he did, I understood he had a purpose. He felt 346 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: that there was a sanctity in the locker room that 347 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: that outsiders shouldn't be allowed to be part of. That. 348 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: He would chase us out of postgame locker rooms. When 349 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: the League Owners Broadcast Committee actually passed a resolution granting 350 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: us the right to use boom microphones on sidelines, you know, 351 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: Bill didn't want to go along with that. He really 352 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: wanted know parts in that. But now it was part 353 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: of you know, it was part of an NFL by law. 354 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: I it's funny about him Phil Simms, who I didn't 355 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: necessarily get along with when he was a player because 356 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: he was that same kind of person. You'll get out 357 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: of here with that camera. Don't bother me. I'm warming out. 358 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: Knocked to my door one day at NFL Films and 359 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: Phil Bob. Yeah, I'm Bob, he said. I hear you're 360 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: going to be doing a project with Bill Parcells, and 361 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: the New England Patriots called Super Bowl Diaries and I said, yeah, 362 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: I am. He said, let me give you some advice. 363 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: Do not back down to him. At some point he 364 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: will come after you, and he will accuse you of 365 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: trying to take over his team, of you know, being 366 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: in the way, of being becoming a distraction. If you 367 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 1: back down to him, he owns you. And I it happened. 368 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: I was in New England, I was obeying all the rules. 369 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: I was doing everything that I was told to do. 370 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: This was January of nineteen ninety seven. The Patriots were 371 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: preparing to play the Packers in the Super Bowl thirty one, 372 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: and on Wednesday, two of my players came out of 373 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: a team meeting just for a break and said, well, 374 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: we won't be seeing you in New Orleans. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, 375 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: what's going on here? He said, you better talk to coach. 376 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: Coach comes out. I said, Coach, I just spoke with 377 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: two of the guys who I've been profiling and working with. 378 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: They said, I'm not allowed any access to them in 379 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: New Orleans. Because that's right, I said, Coach, that's not 380 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: what you promised. Steve Sable and that's not what we 381 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: promised Fox Sports, And his face got red and he 382 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: got right right in my face and what are you 383 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: trying to do take over my football team? I mean, 384 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: you're up here, You're in every room, you're coming into meetings, 385 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: you're doing this. And then but said, coach, that's not 386 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: what you promised, and he looked at me and said 387 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: wait right here he went in. He brought those two 388 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: eyes out and he said what I said about the 389 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: rest of the media doesn't apply to this guy. And 390 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: he looked at me like he and had Phil not 391 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: told me that I had to back down. So that's 392 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: who Bill Parcells was. I don't want to use the 393 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: word bully, but Bill had a way of doing business. 394 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: And at one point when I did go into a 395 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: staff meeting, one of the players said, what goes on 396 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: in there? I said, attention to detail is what goes 397 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: on in there. He walks through a play and they 398 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: look at every particular aspect of the play. They look 399 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: at here's where the double team starts, and then it 400 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: goes to the second level this play. I mean, just 401 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: the way Lombardi would go through the power suite, that's 402 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: the way Bill would go through an offensive play. Design, 403 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: I said, attention to details, what goes on in there, 404 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: and that showed me a window into why Bill Parcells 405 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: was successful as a head coach, why he won a 406 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: pair of Super Bowls. Now that said he was a 407 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: lot better head coach when Bill Belichick was his defensive coordinator. 408 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean, there are statistics to verify that, but a 409 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: lot of respect for Bill After the fact. 410 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens, 411 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 4: So go to that retreat, knew you moves to the country. 412 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are 413 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 4: you ready for all that life brings? 414 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: Bob? 415 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 3: From your writing, from what I understand, it seems as 416 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 3: if Bill Parcells and Steve Sable were very close. So 417 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 3: I guess what I'm getting at is why did that 418 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 3: relationship perhaps not change his perspective of the purpose of 419 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 3: NFL films? 420 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: Because Bill did things Bill's way, and when he was 421 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: in his environment, not sitting opposite Steve, you know, talking 422 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: about whatever didn't matter. The fact that he and Steve 423 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: were good friends didn't matter. What mattered was this is 424 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: the way we do business. You're not in my locker 425 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: room until I let you in my locker room. You're 426 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: not sticking microphones over me while I am, you know, 427 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: tearing into a player about a blown pass coverage or 428 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: a blown pass protection. I don't want people to know that. 429 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: That's for that's for us. That's that's for the fifty 430 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: five players on this sideline with me and my coaches. 431 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: It's not for you guys. Well, unfortunately, the league gave 432 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: us permission to do this. You're gonna have to get 433 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: used to it. But so his personal relationship with Steve, 434 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: it was a good one and it was one of 435 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: the reasons we were able to wire him every year 436 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: because he trusted Steve with that material. But you know, conversely, 437 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: when it when it was game day, huh, this is 438 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: how I do business. And you know I'm in charge. 439 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: You're not you. I don't care what the league office says. 440 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: This is how it's going to be. And you know, 441 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: I respected that to a certain point. And I think 442 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: it's one of the things he probably didn't miss his 443 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: NFL films and the intrusions and you know, the the 444 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: access that we were getting more and more and more. 445 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: I mean today now we are allowed allowed to wire players, 446 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: we're allowed to choose the players we want to wire 447 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: and if the player wants to wear a wire, I'm 448 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: not quite sure how all that works out, but we 449 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: we have much more access today. I mean, wirings are 450 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: very common today. Teams are doing their own wirings these days, 451 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the things that kind 452 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: of irked Bill that he didn't have control over that. 453 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: I mean, Bill, you know, we hear the term control 454 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: freak bandied about. There was, but that's one of the 455 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: reasons Bill was successful. And we're Dwayne Charles personality. Yeah, 456 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: I love I love Dwayne Charles. I wrote that in 457 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: the book just in case Bill reads it, just a 458 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: little dig thanks. 459 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: Exactly to refer to him by his full name. 460 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: Dwayne Charles. Parenthetical Bill purselves. 461 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: You know how to poke the bear a little, Bob 462 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 3: from it is around the NFL. Sure you know at 463 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 3: this stage of the game, what's the trouble. I want 464 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 3: to circle back though, to Sean Payton, who you brought up, 465 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 3: because earlier you had referenced how it wasn't easy handling 466 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 3: him and I was connecting the dots while Sean was 467 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 3: an assistant under Bill. How much do you think Bob 468 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 3: looking back, Bill rubbed off on him in terms of 469 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: how he handled the media a lot. 470 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: We all know the history now, okay, it's out in 471 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: the open, it's part of the public record. They were 472 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: running a bounty program and they got caught. I certainly 473 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: hope that one of my soundbites, it was, you know, 474 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,360 Speaker 1: help helped put him away for a year. Pro football 475 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: is hard enough without paying players from a slush fund, 476 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: paying players for cartoffs and you know, uh, knocking players 477 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: out of the game with cheap shots. There's no place 478 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,719 Speaker 1: for that in professional football or professional sports. I mean, 479 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: that's that's what that's for UFC fighters and in professional 480 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: wrestlers and so forth. In professional football, he can't do that, 481 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: and so he got caught. I think part of the 482 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: reason he didn't want us working his bench area was 483 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: he knew what was going on back there. And bottom line, Uh, 484 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: he paid his penalty, came back. I don't know that 485 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: he ever got any better, but he he ran me 486 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: off several sidelines. Know, he came after me, get the 487 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: f out of here with that f and camera, you know, 488 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 1: in in in language that you know doesn't belong on Sunday. 489 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: It's not Sunday language. 490 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 2: Uh. 491 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: And one time I stood my ground. I was in. 492 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: I just put the camera on my shoulder. I told myself, man, 493 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: stay right here, and I just stick down. He turned 494 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: walked away, had to turn back throw one more exploit 495 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 1: in my way, And then I thought, Wow, I'm in 496 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: my late fifties, I'm shooting a camera at a professional 497 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: football game. It's my job to do this. Why are 498 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: you so so upset that I'm here and allowed to 499 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: do this? Then we all learn why he was. He 500 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: was hiding something. 501 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 2: Giants fans love a winner. 502 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 3: It's why they love Citizens named Day twenty twenty two 503 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 3: best bank in the US by the Banker. As the 504 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle, 505 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 3: Citizens is made ready for fans of Big Blue. 506 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: Learn more at Citizens bank dot com. 507 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 3: As we are talking with NFL films legend Bob Angelo 508 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 3: here on the latest edition of the Giants Toto podcast. 509 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: Bob, how do you think. 510 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 3: Most players and coaches don't understand the purpose of NFL 511 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 3: films and how it's essentially an extension. 512 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: In arm of the league. 513 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 3: And I'm not here to paint them in bad light, 514 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 3: but it just seems as if from an optic standpoint, 515 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 3: many perhaps feel that way and sort of mesh you 516 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: in with the rest of the media. 517 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: Interesting that you asked that the coach who succeeded Bill 518 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: Walsh in San Francisco and won a fourth Super Bowl 519 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: in that decade, I'm going blank on his name now. 520 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: So about George Seaffert, Yeah, George, you would think that 521 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: the head coach of a professional football team would understand 522 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: that NFL Films is owned by thirty two owners NFL owners. 523 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: He didn't. He actually said something to the effect that, 524 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not doing anything for the Sables as 525 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: if you know it was Ed and Steve's company. And 526 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: again I'm I'm not quoting him exactly, I'm taking it 527 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: out of context. It was basically he didn't know that. 528 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: He did not know that the San Francisco forty nine 529 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: ers are one thirty second partners in NFL Films. A 530 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: lot of coaches still still believe it or not, consider 531 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: us just another station, another camera, another distraction. The ones 532 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: who don't benefit from the exposure that NFL films provides 533 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: their players and themselves. One of my favorite coaches over 534 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: the years was Denny Green, who embraced NFL Films. He said, 535 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: you know we're a small market team here in Minneapolis. 536 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. You're welcome. And I did a show, 537 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: a show that many producers at NFL films have done 538 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: over the year, is called six Days to Sunday. I 539 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: did one with the Vikings, and Denny said, these guys 540 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: are going to be in our meeting rooms, are going 541 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: to be in our locker room, They're going to be everywhere, 542 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: and I trust the cameraman. And the reason I'm allowing 543 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: all this is I trust the cameraman, and he pointed 544 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: at me. I was one of the cameras in addition 545 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: to being the producer, And instantly everybody in that locker okay. 546 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: If Dennis says he's okay, then he's okay. Head coaches 547 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: set the tone. So to your question, how do some 548 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: head coaches still not understand that. I don't know. It's 549 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: beyond me. We're, as you said, we are part of 550 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: the National Football League. We are a public relations firm basically, 551 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: although there's a lot of truth and a lot of 552 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: honesty and a lot of our productions, but basically, if 553 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: an NFL owner has a problem with NFL films, we 554 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: hear about it. And I say, we, you know, are 555 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: the NFL Films execs. Hear about it, and it baffles 556 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: me that more coaches don't take advantage of the opportunities 557 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: that we offer them. I don't think there's any real 558 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: bad blood anymore, although certain head coaches try to shy 559 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: away from Hard Knocks. I mean, they just don't want 560 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: that kind of infiltration, if you will, and it is 561 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: an invasive show. I mean when I designed the original 562 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: Hard Knocks in two thousand and one, Brian Billick, who 563 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: grew up under Denny Green, Oh yeah, you know, whatever 564 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: you want to do, Bob, wherever you want to go, 565 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: however you want to do it. You know, when you 566 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: get that kind of cooperation. I mean, someone asked me 567 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: what makes NFL Films production special? I said, trust and access. 568 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: We're allowed to do things, and they trust us to 569 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: do them well by well. In other words, don't embarrass us. 570 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: Don't make the New Orleans Saints look bad, don't make 571 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Steelers look bad. That's not our job to 572 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: make professional football teams look bad. It's our job to 573 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: sell professional football, to make pro football bigger than life. 574 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean, how did I start with NFL Films I 575 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: told you when I was growing up, I watched NFL 576 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: films on television. But when I was a freshman, my 577 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: high school football team, our coach had a bootleg copy 578 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: of a film that Steve Sable made with John Fiss 579 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: and his voice, and we sat there watching it, and 580 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: when the film was over, I was ready to go. Now, 581 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: let's go out and play football. And you know, and 582 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: it inspired me. That's what NFL films has done for generations. 583 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: It's inspired football fans. It's gotten personal with players and coaches. 584 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: It's gotten deep, profound, you know, not just surface stuff, 585 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: not the superficial stuff that we can find on an 586 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: evening newscast, a sportscast. I'm not what they do. They've 587 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: only got thirty seconds to a minute to take care 588 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: of business. So we can get in depth. We can, 589 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: you know, we can present the game in a way 590 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: that makes people want to be part of it, want 591 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: to watch it, want to play fantasy football, want to 592 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: bet on the sport. You know all of the above, 593 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: and film still does that better than any any advertising 594 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: agency or a public relations firm. They just really know 595 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: how to promote. 596 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 2: The sport well. 597 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 3: You literally and figuratively have a unique lens, and I 598 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 3: think you and the rest of your colleagues have capitalized 599 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 3: and taken full advantage of that. I want to piggyback, 600 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 3: Bob off of your point about Brian Billick was the 601 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 3: Ravens head coach when you started Hard Knocks in two 602 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 3: thousand and one, and how beneficial it was that he 603 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 3: was under Dennis Green and understood, Hey, if you could 604 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 3: trust NFL Films, you can help us. 605 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 2: We can help you. 606 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 3: But I guess what I'm getting at, Bob, is then 607 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 3: when you look at what followed, you didn't have Brian 608 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 3: Billick every year you had to circulate across the league. 609 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: Did it sort of set I guess. 610 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 3: An unfair luxury for you with the early program with 611 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 3: the Ravens, given the fact that you didn't maybe have 612 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 3: that relationship with other coaches like you did with Brian. 613 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 2: Billy Well, I. 614 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: Only did the first two. After that, there was a 615 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: four year, five year hiatus between the second one and 616 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: the third one, and by that point, Films executives had 617 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: decided that they wanted someone younger to do it, and 618 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, which was fine with me. Brian was exceptional. 619 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: Steve Sable was very, very concerned about the profanity. I said, Steve, 620 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: it's a professional football camp. I mean, if you read 621 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: Paper Lion, as I did when I was a kid, 622 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: you know what it sounds like. You know, profanity. It's 623 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: hard for some players and or coaches to finish a 624 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: sentence with it out, the F word. Steve was concerned 625 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: about that after the first show aired and it was raw. 626 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: After that first show aired, Steve collected the post production 627 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: people together and said, let's kind of avoid profundity. Let's 628 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: not draw attention to it. Let's not you know, let's 629 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: find ways to either to beep it, to put presence 630 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: in instead of hearing the words. Well. I had to 631 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: screen the rough cut of each week's show on Wednesday 632 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,280 Speaker 1: morning prior to a Wednesday night airing in that first season, 633 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: and that screening included the owners at the time, the models, 634 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: Art and his son I think, David Modell, the media 635 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: relations staff, Kevin Byrne, Ozzie Knwsom, the general manager Brian 636 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: and you know anybody else who would show up. But 637 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: it was basically the powers of the be of the 638 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: Baltimore Ravens, including the ownership. After the first show, after 639 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: that first screening, everybody just got up and walked out, 640 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: said great job. I got on the phone with Steve 641 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: and I said, Steve, no changes, Everything's fine. Well, like 642 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: I said, Steve was concerned about the profanity, so he 643 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: for that second show, he made a deliberate effort to 644 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: rein it in. Brian waited until everybody else had gone, 645 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: and they stood up and said, great show, Bob, but 646 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: we need a few more gratuitous f words in there, 647 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: don't you think, And he walked out. I called Steve, 648 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 1: I said, Steve, please, you know this is what Brian 649 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: just said. All right, that's fine. The show aired in 650 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: its raw, earthy form from that point on and still does, so, yeah, Brian. 651 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: The next year was Dave Campbell, and Dave was the 652 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: head coach of the Cowboys, promoted from within. He did 653 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: not have the same authority, if you will, that Brian 654 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: Billick had with the Ravens organization. If you know what 655 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying here, I. 656 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 2: Mean, yes, I think we could all connect the dots there. 657 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: Yes, But he was a great guy and he had 658 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: no problem, you know, mugging for the camera and doing things. 659 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: But there were things going on behind the scenes in 660 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: post production that I didn't know about involving mister Jones's concerns, 661 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't. I can't go there because 662 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: I didn't witness it personally. I just learned of it later. Again, 663 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 1: trust and access, We trust you guys were letting you in. 664 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: You're going to see things that most people will never see, 665 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: and we're trusting that you'll depict us in a in 666 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: a good fashion. And uh again, the head coach sets 667 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: the tone. So yeah, after Brian, it was, it became harder. 668 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: Herm Edwards was was good. Rex Ryan couldn't have been better. 669 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: Marvin Lewis could not have been better because they'd all 670 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, those guys were all part of the original 671 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 1: and understood h yeah, okay, and if they don't. NFL 672 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: films didn't affect our football season. All they did was 673 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: our training game. All they did was documented, and that's 674 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: that's the takeaway. I I'd like to see a handful 675 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: of other coaches who who still fight hard knocks every 676 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: time it comes up. It's like, oh no, no, we 677 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: don't want it, don't want it, don't want it. You know, Hey, 678 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: that's that's going to go on. I think modern younger 679 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: NFL head coaches, I think recognize that it can be 680 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,319 Speaker 1: a value. Let me just look at what's going on 681 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: now with the guy in Miami. I mean, he's a 682 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: different he's a different kind of guy to begin with. 683 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: I love the way he talks and interacts with his players. 684 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: I really really like that and appreciate that. And Brian 685 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: was the same kind of thing just a generation earlier. 686 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: You know, Brian could get down and dirty and when 687 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: he had to. But Brian was a former public relations person, 688 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: former tight end himself in college who understood And when 689 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: I learned that McDaniels was also a wide out someplace, 690 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: and a fairly good one. Now I understand why he 691 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: takes off and runs to the locker room. He's a 692 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: different sort of guy and hard knocks and season I 693 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: think will be very successful simply because people will warm 694 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: up to the Dolphins because of him, because of the 695 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: head coach and how he conducts business. 696 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 3: And as you know, a big part of that show 697 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 3: is personality. If you have the personality, it sells it 698 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 3: even more. And actually that's why I want to bring 699 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 3: the Lions into the equation, who were featured last year 700 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 3: in training can I think the show did wonders for them, Bob, 701 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 3: because what I think it did was and Dan Campbell 702 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 3: helped in his staff a lot of former players. But 703 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 3: to me, it humanizes the team. You see them as 704 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 3: human beings. I think there's a lot of people that 705 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 3: consume football and a very curious your perspective. Unfortunately, they 706 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 3: look at players and coaches as if they're robots. They're 707 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 3: programmed that they got to go out, they got to 708 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 3: win it all costs, it's life and death. They have families, 709 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 3: they have emotions. You see it on the sideline, and 710 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 3: I just feel as if Hard Knock serves a good 711 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 3: purpose in providing a conduit to that. 712 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 2: And I'm curious where you stand on that. 713 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely correct, I agree with you one hundred and one percent. 714 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: I made a point of visiting players at their homes 715 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: for the very first Hard Knocks show prior to meeting 716 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: them in camp. When Steve asked me why I was 717 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,800 Speaker 1: doing that, I was saying, I want people to understand 718 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: that Tony Siragusa has a wife and children, that uh 719 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: uh Rod Woodson has a pink house. 720 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 3: Uh. 721 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean there, these are grown These are grown ass men. Okay, 722 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: they're they're uh they have lives, they have wives, Uh, 723 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: they have families. It's it's good for people to know 724 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: that they're not just you know. Uh, Betters tend to 725 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: look at football one way. They tend to look at 726 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: it like you failed me, you know you you you 727 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: quit on me. And of course you know, betters have 728 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: this whole thing. Wow, it's fixed. The games are rigged. 729 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: That's why. Uh, that's why. Uh. The Rams coach kicked 730 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: a field goal because because he knew what the line was. No, 731 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: it wasn't it was the only way to win. The 732 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: actually have a chance of tying the game and sending 733 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: into a new overtime. But betters have that that that's that, 734 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, they will They'll never admit I'm I'm not 735 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: a very good better. They'll never say that. They'll always 736 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: play out the reps. There they're controlling the game. Absolute 737 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: that said, personalizing the game is one of its NFL films, 738 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: especially personalizing athletes, showing the other side of of of 739 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: of an athlete. One of the very first segments I 740 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 1: watched when I started with NFL Films was a piece 741 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 1: that Steve Sable did on Lyle Alzado, and I referenced 742 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: it in my book. Lyle had a mother and he 743 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: would help her arrange flowers at at their place in 744 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: New York. And then you see Lyle, you know, as 745 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: a football player, and you think, wow, how can he 746 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: go from that, this young man helping his mom arrange 747 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: flowers to this beast on a football field. Now, of 748 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: course with Lyle there are some other things going on, 749 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: but that is what NFL Films has always done. I mean, 750 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: the very first time I saw the Norm van Brocklin 751 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: wiring when he was the head coach in Atlanta. I 752 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever seen that, but he tears 753 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: into harmon wages in a way that just made me uncomfortable. 754 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 1: I mean, my high school coach would tear into me sometimes, 755 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: but never like that, and I thought, oh my god. 756 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,240 Speaker 1: You know, and so you see that and you realize, wow, wow, 757 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: this is how head coach. Now, not everybody was like Norm, 758 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: and of course Norm wasn't very successful at what he 759 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 1: did as a coach now as a quarterback, but when 760 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: you see that, you realize this is real. This is 761 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: humanity in its raw, raw form. And then off the 762 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: field they're totally different, you know. I mean, Troy Amla 763 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: was a force on a football field. But at during 764 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: an interview, he was, I mean so soft spoken that 765 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: you'd think, you know, who is this? Is this the 766 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: same guy who's just wrecking game plans? You know? Uh? 767 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:23,280 Speaker 1: Ray Nichki. Ray I mentioned in my book he I 768 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,799 Speaker 1: did a piece with him and IRV cross once in 769 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: like eighteen nineteen eighty three Legends of the Game feature, 770 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: and IRV, of course was, you know, actually played against Ray. 771 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: Ray put IRV in a headlock in his house, and 772 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: IRV was looking for help. I mean, you know he was. 773 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,720 Speaker 1: And they're bumping in and slamming into furniture and stuff, 774 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: and I'm standing there watching all this, thinking, holy crap, 775 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do here? I mean, or 776 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: is my friend? But you know, this is Ray Nitsky 777 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: and he was my high scho, my idol growing up. 778 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: I met Am on an airplane a year before his 779 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 1: death is untimely dead. And I knew Ray's history. And 780 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 1: Ray said, well, you know you have any children. I said, yeah, 781 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: I have a son, but you know, my wife and 782 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: I are divorced. And Ray's expression changed. Because Ray was 783 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: orphaned young, was raised by two older brothers, and Ray 784 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: adopted three boys himself. That really hit him when he 785 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: heard that I wasn't living in the same house as 786 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: my son. So I fell asleep on the plane. When 787 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: I woke up, Ray handed me this little message that 788 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: I quoted exactly in my book that I gave to 789 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: my son. And it was in calligraphy. I mean, his 790 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 1: handwriting was calligraphy. I'm thinking, Ray Nichgi, this is how 791 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:46,280 Speaker 1: he writes, my goodness. But it was a heart warming, 792 00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,919 Speaker 1: you know your and he signed to your dad's friend 793 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,959 Speaker 1: from Green Bay, Ray NICHKEI, you know, study hard, work hard, 794 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: play hard, blah blah blah. You know, listen to you. 795 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 1: I mean, all the advice that a man of substance 796 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,800 Speaker 1: would give to children that he loved, that he had adopted. 797 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 1: He wanted my son to have that just in case 798 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: he wasn't seeing enough of me when I gave it 799 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,359 Speaker 1: to my son. And when I'm thinking about it now, 800 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: it just brings tears in my eyes. It was just 801 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful moment. And then you think of Ray 802 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 1: Nicheie on a Sunday afternoon. You know, he kind of 803 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: looked like Lambert before Lambert, you know, with the teeth 804 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,759 Speaker 1: missing and the breathing fire and uh, I mean so yeah, 805 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: they do have a human side and that's NFL Films 806 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 1: has always specialized in that. And to see it on 807 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: Hard Knocks, it was pretty pretty simple. I mean it 808 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: was a no brainer choice for me. I mean, that's 809 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,439 Speaker 1: what this show has to be about. Otherwise, who cares? 810 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,919 Speaker 4: You love turf? You're good at it, So you start 811 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 4: a turf biz business, grows, your savings, grow, become the 812 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 4: most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all 813 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:52,840 Speaker 4: that life brings? 814 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 2: One hundred percent? 815 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,239 Speaker 3: Because you're providing something that the typical viewer can't find 816 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 3: elsewhere and understand that purpose. 817 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,240 Speaker 2: And I'm glad to hear your stories. 818 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 3: About what goes on on the sideline, Bob, because I 819 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 3: want to bring this back to the Giants. And earlier 820 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,239 Speaker 3: this season there was a lot of animation on the 821 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,800 Speaker 3: sideline during a few games, whether it be Sterling Shepherd 822 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 3: and Darius Slayte and the wide receivers or Wink Martin Dale, 823 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 3: the defensive coordinator, head coach Brian Dable, and you know 824 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 3: the media fans, they look at the visual image and 825 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,799 Speaker 3: everybody likes to twist it and turn it and read 826 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 3: into it, but you've been on the sideline. 827 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 2: What I'm getting at. 828 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 3: Is is perception always reality if you don't understand the 829 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 3: true context of what's going on there. 830 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: I like the way you phrase that, watching a sideline 831 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 1: confrontation not knowing what's being said. You know, well, of 832 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: course the Giants offense is struggling right now. The quarterback 833 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: just signed a big contract, and wow, did we overpay him? 834 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 1: Should we have been looking somewhere else? He can't seem 835 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: to find his open receivers. He's running the ball more 836 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,880 Speaker 1: than he should be. He's not converting third downs. Of course, 837 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: grown as men are going to have things to say 838 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: about that. Wide receivers are always open on every play, 839 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,319 Speaker 1: always always, until you look at the film and you realize, no, 840 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: not so much. Huh. He was right right on you, you know, 841 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,839 Speaker 1: like like flypaper. What do you mean you were open? 842 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: You weren't. But they're always open and they always want 843 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,360 Speaker 1: the ball. That's why they made it to the National 844 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: Football League. I shot a confrontation once. I don't want 845 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 1: to shift it away from the Giants because but I 846 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: shot taroll Owens talking to Randall Cunningham, cunning him, No, talking. 847 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:53,239 Speaker 5: To Donovan McNabb in Pittsburgh, and as he's on his rent, 848 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 5: Donovan starts to walk away from him, and I use 849 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 5: my zoom just to stretch and stretch and stretch and 850 00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,760 Speaker 5: stretch the frame. 851 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: And at the end of it, you know, he's still 852 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: Terrell is still over there, hollering at him, screaming at him, 853 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,360 Speaker 1: and Donovan's way the hell over here. And that happens. 854 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:18,320 Speaker 1: That happens, you know, just just a couple of weeks ago, 855 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,400 Speaker 1: in an Eagles game, Jalen Hurts was throwing a dig 856 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: and aj Brown was supposed to run a dig, but 857 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: didn't he you know, he made a sign like this, 858 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 1: and then he took off and Jalen threw the dig 859 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: and it got picked and you see them on the sidelines. 860 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,279 Speaker 1: Now they're best friends, I hear, but still you see that. 861 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,120 Speaker 1: You know, what the hell what were you doing? You know? 862 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: And so that happens with every team. I mean, Dable's 863 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: a good coach. I mean he's a damn good coach, 864 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: good offensive mind, good schemes. You know, it's just not 865 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,319 Speaker 1: working out with the quarterback early this season and now 866 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,960 Speaker 1: he's gone. And when you see it, you think, oh god, 867 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, look at this, this team's falling apart. No, 868 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,879 Speaker 1: they're not. They're trying to sort things out. They're trying 869 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,280 Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of it. You know what's 870 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: going wrong. That's how it happens on sidelines. Some coaches 871 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 1: don't want NFL films or anybody else listening in, But 872 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: that's just too bad. It's part of our jobs to 873 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,160 Speaker 1: do that, and it's part of network television coverage to 874 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:32,879 Speaker 1: point it out and to speculate. Do they always get 875 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,760 Speaker 1: it right? No, I mean the better analysts understand, they 876 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: know what's going on there. I mean, if you listen 877 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,239 Speaker 1: to Troy Aikman, I mean, he'll get it right most 878 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,839 Speaker 1: of the time. Collins Worth will get it right most 879 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 1: of the time. The good analysts understand. I mean the 880 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:51,080 Speaker 1: tight end. Now, who's Fox's guy the former titles? Oh yeah, 881 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,919 Speaker 1: he gets it right. I mean these guys were there. 882 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,120 Speaker 1: But to the average fan watching, look at this, you know, 883 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,480 Speaker 1: I bet on these guys, Well, what's going on here? 884 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean they're fighting among themselves. Yeah, happens all the time. 885 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: Happens all the time. They're grown ass men making a 886 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: lot of money, carrying a lot of testosterone and they're 887 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,319 Speaker 1: going to have disagreements and sometimes it's gonna you know, 888 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 1: they're gonna throw helmets, they're gonna be pissed off at 889 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: each other. The good coaches and the good coaching stabs 890 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,399 Speaker 1: and the teams with veteran leadership will work it out. 891 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:30,239 Speaker 1: They'll figure it out in real time. Otherwise they'll go 892 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: on five and six and eight game losing streaks and 893 00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,720 Speaker 1: there will be a new coach and a new system, 894 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:41,680 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So yes, of course it gets 895 00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:46,319 Speaker 1: blown up, but not usually by you know, most good 896 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: analysts have been there. That's why they're in the booth, 897 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,319 Speaker 1: and they'll figure it out and they'll say, well, you know, 898 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,520 Speaker 1: he wants to be targeted more. Of course, he's a 899 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,439 Speaker 1: wide receiver. I mean, he wants the ball more. Yeah, 900 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: he wants to every now and then you'll see you 901 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 1: a pass rusher, you know, complaining about getting only a 902 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,960 Speaker 1: half sack credit as opposed to a full set. What 903 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,879 Speaker 1: do you mean I'm the one? Yeah, and I would 904 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,759 Speaker 1: shoot those conversations. I think, jeezus, come on, but that's 905 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:24,759 Speaker 1: what happens. Yeah, it does get blown up, but that's 906 00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,879 Speaker 1: never going to change. I mean that's never going to well. 907 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 3: And that's why I think it's important to hear your perspective, 908 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 3: mainly because I think sometimes people get emotional during a game, 909 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,000 Speaker 3: which is understandable we're all human beings, but it's not 910 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:41,320 Speaker 3: necessarily eating into the relationship that then moves on outside 911 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,279 Speaker 3: of the game. And that's exactly what I think we 912 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,880 Speaker 3: were discussing. Speaking of Sacks, I want to stay on 913 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,120 Speaker 3: the Giant's focus because you bring up Lawrence Taylor in 914 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,520 Speaker 3: your book and you've captured a lot of interactions on 915 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 3: the sideline for him, and we're talking about hard knocks 916 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,360 Speaker 3: and the cameras, Bob. Can you imagine if social media 917 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:02,800 Speaker 3: existed when Lawrence Taylor played and how perhaps his career 918 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 3: would have not necessarily gone differently on the football. 919 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 2: Field, but maybe all the off the field stuff. 920 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,360 Speaker 1: Lawrence was different. He was different. I mean remember spinal 921 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,200 Speaker 1: tap of the movie with the app that goes to eleven. Well, 922 00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: Lawrence's app went to eleven. I've never seen anything like him, 923 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,759 Speaker 1: and there has never been anything like him since. I 924 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: think I wrote in the book that people have been 925 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: saying now since nineteen eighty one, you know, he could 926 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 1: be the next Lawrence Taylor. Well not Yeah, I haven't 927 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,680 Speaker 1: seen him yet. I've not seen a linebacker wreck game 928 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: plans the way Lawrence Taylor did. Lawrence Taylor changed offensive 929 00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: football and defensive football. Teams went to three four defenses 930 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:54,520 Speaker 1: and started looking for that smaller, more reckless edge rusher. 931 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: And now they're called edge rushers. They used to be 932 00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: called defensive ends. Now they're called edge rushers. Offensively, Joe 933 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,280 Speaker 1: Gibbs invented the H back to deal with Lawrence Taylor 934 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 1: because he realized he couldn't block him with a tight end. 935 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,439 Speaker 1: He couldn't block him with a tight end and a back. 936 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,239 Speaker 1: You know. He said, we needed a bigger, stronger man 937 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,839 Speaker 1: here to take care of that guy when he comes 938 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:23,080 Speaker 1: off the edge. He had a gear that most players 939 00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: don't have. And yeah, social media with so wow. Uh. 940 00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:40,440 Speaker 1: It's funny how both George Young and Bill Parcells, when asked, 941 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:45,279 Speaker 1: you know, what would Lawrence's future be, the prognostications weren't good, Like, 942 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,279 Speaker 1: h five years out of football, Where will Lawrence be? 943 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,359 Speaker 1: You know some of the things they said. And he's 944 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,520 Speaker 1: still with us, and you know, but who is not 945 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: here anymore? Is the next Lawrence Taylor. We he just 946 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 1: hasn't shown up yet. There's nobody in my memory of 947 00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:08,080 Speaker 1: watching professional football who could just wreck another team's afternoon 948 00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:09,480 Speaker 1: more than Lawrence Taylor. 949 00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,240 Speaker 2: Being of Giants legends. 950 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 3: Another individual you bring up, and it wasn't so much 951 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 3: you interacted with him during his playing days, but when 952 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,759 Speaker 3: you were at NFL films as he did narration is 953 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,000 Speaker 3: Frank Gifford, who you talk about in the nineteen eighty 954 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 3: one wrap up of the Giant season. 955 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 2: He laid the voice over down and that gave. 956 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:34,319 Speaker 3: You a different lens into once again an individual outside 957 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,799 Speaker 3: of his playing days. And how everybody's got a different personality, Bob, 958 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,080 Speaker 3: it seems when you have to work with them in 959 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,319 Speaker 3: a different capacity outside of the game. 960 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:48,200 Speaker 1: Growing up, certain voices were the National Football League. Frank 961 00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:48,839 Speaker 1: was one of those. 962 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:49,279 Speaker 2: To me. 963 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,919 Speaker 1: John Facenda's voice was National Football League, even though John 964 00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: didn't know if a football was pumped or stuffed. Pat 965 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:02,120 Speaker 1: Summerl's voice like that. I didn't have any particular acts 966 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:06,200 Speaker 1: to grind with Frank Gifford. I would watch him on 967 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,400 Speaker 1: Monday Night football and he'd make five to ten mistakes 968 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,760 Speaker 1: a quarter. You know, wrong names, wrong numbers, wrong information. 969 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:17,120 Speaker 1: I think how does a guy get this job and 970 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 1: make that many mistakes? But you know, so be it. 971 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,920 Speaker 1: I actually ran into him once in the league office, 972 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,600 Speaker 1: sitting there prepping for a game. He was studying things. 973 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 2: Again. 974 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: I wrote this in the story. The first time I 975 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,080 Speaker 1: had to work with Frank, Steve Sable made it sound 976 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,880 Speaker 1: as if, Wow, you're gonna beat Pro Football Royalty, and 977 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,640 Speaker 1: I was gonna look forward to it until a veteran 978 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: audio engineer said to me, Frank can be hard to 979 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,680 Speaker 1: work with. And he didn't say in those words, he said, 980 00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: Frank can be a and yeah he was. Every filmmaker 981 00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 1: who writes narrations sometimes will underline words telling the narrator 982 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,520 Speaker 1: wants you to accent that word, or he'll write a 983 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:10,880 Speaker 1: certain line to be read at a certain pace. Frank 984 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:13,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to hear any of that. You know. It 985 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: was one of those I've been doing this longer than 986 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: you've been alive and blah blah blah, and he just 987 00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to hear it. And he would. He was 988 00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,000 Speaker 1: challenging me as I was asking him just to could 989 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:25,920 Speaker 1: you do that line just and slow it down just 990 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,400 Speaker 1: a bit? No, I have one pace, okay, I mean, 991 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 1: and he made it a long, long day, and when 992 00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 1: the Highlight film premiere was to take place, Steve said, 993 00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,840 Speaker 1: you're going and I said, Steve, I really don't want 994 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 1: to go, and he said, no, you're going, and there's 995 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,320 Speaker 1: my boss. So I went. Fortunately, they had an open 996 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:54,560 Speaker 1: bar and I had a couple of vodka drinks before 997 00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,840 Speaker 1: the thing started because I could hear Frank holding court 998 00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: and one of the things I heard him say was, 999 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they they do a pretty good job 1000 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:07,160 Speaker 1: of marrying the pictures to my voice. And I went 1001 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,680 Speaker 1: back for another drink. I thought, now it's the other 1002 00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:12,600 Speaker 1: way around. We we we we take your voice after 1003 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:18,640 Speaker 1: the fact, and your voice anyway. When it was all over, 1004 00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,919 Speaker 1: he actually walked over to me, put his hand out 1005 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:25,640 Speaker 1: and said, great job. And you know, I I hope 1006 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,120 Speaker 1: that would be a learning experience for me, but it wasn't. 1007 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I just thought, you know, you're still arrogant. 1008 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,320 Speaker 1: You still think that you know, your cockout doesn't stink, 1009 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: and it does. And you know, come on, man, uh, 1010 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:43,080 Speaker 1: I saw I saw your your lethal side. I mean 1011 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,440 Speaker 1: I saw that that dark side that the television people 1012 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,600 Speaker 1: will never know about, or you know, people out in 1013 00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 1: the real world will never see. I saw the dark 1014 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: side and it was it wasn't pretty, but you know, hey, 1015 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 1: we got through it. We were both professional out it 1016 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:05,120 Speaker 1: and film turned out okay, no. 1017 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:05,680 Speaker 2: Doubt about it. 1018 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 3: We're talking without Bob Angelo, NFL film's legend here on 1019 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 3: the Giant Total podcast. So Bob, as we close, I 1020 01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,520 Speaker 3: want to bring your book back into the conversation of 1021 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:16,120 Speaker 3: the NFL off camera. I was recently talking with Kenny Albert, 1022 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,040 Speaker 3: longtime sports broadcaster, who also just came out with a book, 1023 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,120 Speaker 3: and we were discussing how if the pandemic didn't happen, 1024 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,600 Speaker 3: who knows if the book gets written and put together. 1025 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,120 Speaker 3: I'm curious because this book came out after the pandemic. 1026 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,800 Speaker 3: You have so many stories. How much did that play 1027 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 3: a role to give you the opportunity to sit down 1028 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,080 Speaker 3: put all these thoughts together? And if it didn't happen, 1029 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,440 Speaker 3: do you think you would have composed something like this? 1030 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,280 Speaker 1: Probably not. I started writing it in twenty eighteen in 1031 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,760 Speaker 1: my head and then I I actually came up with 1032 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: the format, the short story format, which pleased me as well, 1033 01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,800 Speaker 1: not just readers. It pleased me because I thought good 1034 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,280 Speaker 1: a long narrative football fans don't want it, and I 1035 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,240 Speaker 1: don't want to try to write a long narrative writing 1036 01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,600 Speaker 1: a history. I'm writing about individual players and coaches, in 1037 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:09,320 Speaker 1: front office people and so forth. I taught at the 1038 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,840 Speaker 1: University of Delaware for three semesters and then at Penn 1039 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,400 Speaker 1: State in the spring of twenty twenty. And now I 1040 01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: went to Penn State, so I it was a three 1041 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,160 Speaker 1: and a half hour drive, and I'm more than willing 1042 01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 1: to drive up there and do it and stay over 1043 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,080 Speaker 1: and then teach the second part of the course the 1044 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,560 Speaker 1: next day. Because we are Penn State. And you speak 1045 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,760 Speaker 1: about receivers who are never open, there is one place 1046 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,360 Speaker 1: where they're never open, because that's the worst designed offense 1047 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. That's just pathetic. And if I were 1048 01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,200 Speaker 1: Drew Aller, I'd think about the transfer portal before they 1049 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,760 Speaker 1: ruin his career. That said, what I have kept going 1050 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,040 Speaker 1: had the pandemic not shut me down in twenty twenty, 1051 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:51,959 Speaker 1: Probably not, because I'd already stopped. I thought about hitting 1052 01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: the delete button quite a few times and never did. 1053 01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,440 Speaker 1: What stopped me really was I handed one of the 1054 01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,160 Speaker 1: stories to my wife one day and she said, and 1055 01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,800 Speaker 1: my wife, I've written eight screenplay she didn't like any 1056 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,840 Speaker 1: of them. I've written some other things, and she just 1057 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,880 Speaker 1: basically never liked my writing. She read two or three 1058 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,200 Speaker 1: of my stories and she said, you're onto something here. 1059 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 1: These are good. I said, you're not just packing Sandori 1060 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,200 Speaker 1: and she said, no, these are good. You've got something here. 1061 01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,280 Speaker 1: That's what motivated I thought, Okay, my wife believes in these, 1062 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,520 Speaker 1: and she's never liked anything I've written before, even letters 1063 01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:33,240 Speaker 1: to her. So but had those two things not happened, 1064 01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,400 Speaker 1: had the pandemic and my wife's vote of confidence, they 1065 01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 1: came in about the same time, because I think she realized, 1066 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:41,640 Speaker 1: oh God, if he's not teaching, what's he going to do? 1067 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,200 Speaker 1: You know, please go in your room and lock yourself 1068 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,000 Speaker 1: in there and start writing. And I did. And you know, 1069 01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,280 Speaker 1: I had no publisher, I had no agent, had no connections. 1070 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,880 Speaker 1: I went to a handful of people. I went to 1071 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,160 Speaker 1: Ray Didninger, and I went to Sal peal Antonio. Sal 1072 01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,760 Speaker 1: hooked me up with a publisher in Chicago who really 1073 01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,760 Speaker 1: didn't handle it well, and Ray hooked me up with 1074 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:05,920 Speaker 1: his publisher, and ultimately Race publisher published the book and 1075 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,840 Speaker 1: Ray wrote the forward. Ray didn't but it probably would 1076 01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,360 Speaker 1: not have happened. If those two things had happened, yeah, 1077 01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:18,440 Speaker 1: COVID for sure. But then my wife's positive words that finally, 1078 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,360 Speaker 1: Oh thanks, Barb. Let me finish this project and I'll 1079 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,360 Speaker 1: stay out of your way while I'm doing it. 1080 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,800 Speaker 2: So a tag team effort. 1081 01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,080 Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you did not hit the delete button, 1082 01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,720 Speaker 3: because once again, there's so many amusing stories. 1083 01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:32,960 Speaker 2: I can't recommend it enough. 1084 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,080 Speaker 3: So, Bob, if individuals want to go out purchase the book, 1085 01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:37,560 Speaker 3: where exactly can they turn to? 1086 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: It's simple. You can go to Amazon and they'll deliver 1087 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:44,480 Speaker 1: the book within two days. All you've got to do 1088 01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:48,960 Speaker 1: is type in the title the NFL off Camera. Or 1089 01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:54,280 Speaker 1: you can go to my website www dot Bobangelo dot com. 1090 01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:57,200 Speaker 1: Real simple. Or you can go to Barnes and Nobles. 1091 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:00,800 Speaker 1: Barnes and Nobles bookstores have them and stop and a 1092 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,880 Speaker 1: lot of the ones, especially in this area East Coast, 1093 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:06,440 Speaker 1: they're stalking for the holidays now, and so Barnes and 1094 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 1: Noble has them. But the easiest way is just to 1095 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,200 Speaker 1: type it in online and it'll come up. And I 1096 01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,040 Speaker 1: think there's a discount for buying it from Amazon. 1097 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 2: Well, there you go, even more of an incentive. 1098 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,600 Speaker 3: He is Bob Angelo, cinematographer, director, producer, writer. More than 1099 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,600 Speaker 3: eight hundred and fifty games forty Super Bowls he documented, 1100 01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,320 Speaker 3: and he was with NFL Films for over four decades. 1101 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,560 Speaker 3: The book is NFL Off Camera and eight, a Z 1102 01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,720 Speaker 3: guide to the league's most memorable players and personalities. 1103 01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:35,760 Speaker 2: And here's another teaser. 1104 01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,560 Speaker 3: When you get the book, check out the story about 1105 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,040 Speaker 3: former Giants linebacker Connor Barwin. 1106 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:42,640 Speaker 2: Because if you want a few. 1107 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,600 Speaker 3: Laughs and chuckles, Bob answers the call in that department. 1108 01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:48,520 Speaker 2: We'll certainly leave it at that. 1109 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 3: Well, Bob, listen, this was an absolute blast, absolute pleasure. 1110 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:53,520 Speaker 2: I very much enjoyed the conversation. 1111 01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:55,560 Speaker 3: I wish you the best of luck in retirement and 1112 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,200 Speaker 3: very much look forward to talking to you down the road. 1113 01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. 1114 01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,160 Speaker 3: This is the latest edition of The Giant Total Podcast, 1115 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,360 Speaker 3: presented by Citizens, the official bank of the New York Giants. 1116 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 3: You can check it out on Giants dot com, the 1117 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,120 Speaker 3: mobile app, and your favorite podcast platform.