1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,399 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX it's Latino USA. I'm Mariero Posa. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Today Suave the Podcast, Episode two, a story about juvenile's 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: sentenced to die in prison, told through one man's journey. 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: David Luis Suave Gonzalez was sentenced to mandatory life in 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: prison without parole for a crime committed when he was 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: seventeen years old. He was found guilty of first degree homicide. 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: Today we bring you episode two of Futuro Studio's newest podcast, 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: a story of incarceration, redemption and the very special nearly 9 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: three decade long relationship between a man convicted of murder 10 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: and a journalist. 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: Me. 12 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: For this story, producer Maggie Freeling is coming along with me, 13 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: and just a warning that this episode contained some strong 14 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: language that is not beleeved. 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: So, Maria, over the those years of phone calls when 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 3: Suave was in prison, one thing you spent a lot 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: of time talking about was Suave's childhood. 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because look, he was a kid when 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: he went into prison, so those are the only memories 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: he had was of his childhood. But very specifically, he 21 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: was doing a lot of thinking about his mom. 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 4: So what did you actually know about her. 23 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: So I remember thinking that Suave's mom was really complicated. 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: My mother grew up in the Bronx. She grew up 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: in the streets. 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 5: She grew up Possibly my mother was like the black 27 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 5: set with a family. 28 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 3: Maria Gonzalez was born in Puerto Rico in nineteen forty two. 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 4: She moved to New York with her family when she 30 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 4: was a young girl. 31 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: Slave and his twin sister were her fourth and fifth kids, 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: and they were born in the Bronx in nineteen sixty nine. 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 3: His mom would have one more child, and she'd also 34 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: raise her sister's kid. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: She's raising these little kids. In the nineteen seventies in 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: New York City, in the South Bronx, there was like 37 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: gang violence, like tons of crime. The city was so 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: deeply in debt that banks had stopped lending the city money. 39 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: There were these constant fires raging all across the South Bronx. 40 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it was a crazy time in New York City, 41 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: in the. 42 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: Town the Bronx, the Bronx. 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 6: A new Federal Census Bureau study has revealed that this 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 6: area South Bronx is the poorest in the whole nation, 45 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 6: worse than Watts, worse than rural Mississippi worse than Appalachia. 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 6: For years, the name has been a way of saying poverty, unemployment. 47 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: And Suave's family. His mom was like right in the 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: middle of it. 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 5: My miles was the spot where all the kids came 50 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 5: and small we we had a whole bunch of sex 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 5: workers boyn hanging in our house. For those that don't 52 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 5: know whether Hutspoyn used to be back in the eighties, 53 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 5: huts Spooring was like the mecca for prostitution in the 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 5: South run in the eighties. 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: Did your mom do sex work? 56 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 5: I don't know, folk, that's the crime she attracted. They 57 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 5: used to do shit in the street and come hide 58 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 5: in my house, and my mom used to let them. 59 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: Swavee's mom raised her seven kids on her own. Save 60 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: says the men who fathered his other siblings were also absent. 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 3: His mom did all the parenting. But Suave says, even 62 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: though they were always poor, they never went hungry. 63 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 5: She believed like, if I don't feed my kids, know 64 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 5: who's gonna feed them? 65 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: So I gotta go out and hustle. 66 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 5: And hustling to her man, catching checks, forging checks, selling diabetics, surrenders. 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 5: You know, are are and everything that was illegal My 68 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 5: mother did, and don't shame me that because she took 69 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 5: care of us to the best of her ability. 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: In some ways, Save idolized her, and although she couldn't 71 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 3: proved everything he wanted, she could a by for me. 72 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 5: A way of how to hustle, how to get the 73 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 5: lifestyle you want more than you got to. 74 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 4: Go do this, And Suave totally wanted the lifestyle. 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: At an early age. 76 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 5: I used to take green lipstick and try to act 77 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 5: like I had tattoos and fascinated with the lifestyle. I 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 5: was fascinated with scar face Tony Montana. 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: That's how I want to be. 80 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 5: That's how you get the street credibility. You know, I 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 5: would be the baddest. 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: Do on the blog. 83 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty, when Suave turned eleven, New York City 84 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 3: saw more violent crimes than any other year in the 85 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: city's history. Nineteen eighty was also a really tough year 86 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: for Suave personally. He was having behavior problems at school. 87 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: He'd been in and out of visits with counselors and psychiatrists, 88 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 3: and an evaluator with the New York Board of Education 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 3: made this observation he is. 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 7: A literally it. 91 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: He feeds himself but needs help dressing and bathing. He 92 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: cannot handle money, He cannot socialize or travel independently. Behavior 93 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: is not age appropriate functioning at the mild mental retardation level. 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: He demonstrates cultural deprivation. 95 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 3: They recommended Swavee transfer to special classes and see a 96 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: therapist weekly, and then that you're of violence gets personal 97 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: for swave. 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: So Suave's grandfather, his Abulito, was a barber and his 99 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: shop was in the heart of East Harlem in Spanish Harlem. 100 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: So Suave would come down from the South Bronx every 101 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: week to get a lineup from his grandpa at his barbershop, 102 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: except that on one day when he went to get 103 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: his haircut, everything changed. 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 8: Can you tell me exactly what happened? 105 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: What happened on that day? 106 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 5: Walk in the barber shop, get him a witty air cut, 107 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 5: and yeah, some type of business crowdle with his buddy. 108 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 2: He walked in while he was giving me. 109 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 5: My head cut and shot him. Shot him in the 110 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 5: stomach and said, hey boy, just shot him. Really didn't 111 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 5: say much, just shot him. And I seen my grandfather. 112 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 5: I knew he was dead when he fell because his 113 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 5: eyes roll back. 114 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: Seen plenty of them in the neighborhood. So and that 115 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: was the day that I always say, you know, I 116 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 2: kind of lost. 117 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 5: Right all sense of reality for me, Like, you kill 118 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 5: my grandfather, so I'm entired to kill somebody else too. 119 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 2: I'm hurting somebody gonna hurt That was my mom friend 120 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: at that time. 121 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 8: So by the time you were twelve years old, how 122 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 8: many drugs had you done? 123 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: Quite a few. 124 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 5: It started me smoking weed right after, right after my 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 5: grandfather died. And from there went to angel. 126 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 8: Does what turned you on to angel does? I mean 127 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 8: you didn't know friends in the neighborhood. 128 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: This is better than pot try is? 129 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 5: And I just liked it because it allowed me to 130 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 5: get waha, it allowed me to forget things. 131 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: Save says. That year, he also tried heroin for the 132 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 4: first time. 133 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: I so dope, and I told my mom, Yo, I 134 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: want to try this shit. She said, let's try it. 135 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: That's it, That's what I remember him saying. And I 136 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: was just like, what kind of a mom would do 137 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: that to her son or with her son? But you know, 138 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: things start to get peeled back. I begin to kind 139 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: of understand a little bit more about Suave's mom, and 140 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, her life was really tough. 141 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: My mother was a victim great and out of that 142 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: incident to me and my sister was born. 143 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty five, save says his mom got caught 144 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 3: in a check cashing scheme and she moved her family 145 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: to Philadelphia running from a warrant. 146 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 4: Savee was sixteen. 147 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: My mother thought she was. 148 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 5: Doing something great, moving us from the South Bronx and 149 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 5: we end up in the worst neighborhood probably in Philadelphia, 150 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: in the Ages of bad Lands, next to the Gray Yard, 151 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 5: and that was like, oh my god. 152 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 9: Just five minutes off of I ninety five in Philadelphia 153 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 9: exists a notorious drug destination called the bad Lands, a 154 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 9: place where dealers sell in the open air market. 155 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 3: The bad Lands was and still is one of the 156 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 3: most dangerous neighborhoods in Philadelphia. And Suave's mom moved her 157 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: family directly to. 158 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 4: The center of it. 159 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: And could field you know, that was like the word 160 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: decision that was for me. 161 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 3: Suave says he lived a couple of houses away from 162 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 3: one of the most powerful drug dealers in the area, 163 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 3: that Wilson. Suave says Wilson had a gang of teenagers 164 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: working for him. Carrying guns, selling drugs, and enforcing his 165 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 3: dominion over quote his blocks. 166 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 5: My father figures was DU's the drug dealers, the pigs, 167 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 5: the people that was living large. 168 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: Those was my father figures. And you know, they wasn't 169 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: telling me you got to go to school. 170 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 5: They wasn't telling me none of that. Everything they was 171 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 5: telling me was the opposite. You want to make some money, 172 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 5: you gotta sell this baggage. You want some you want 173 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 5: to have some nice girls. You gotta have some money. 174 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 5: You gotta be the hot on the block. 175 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: So I'll follow that path. 176 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: And then came the night that changed Suavee's life forever. 177 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 3: December sixth, nineteen eighty six, a little less than a 178 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: year after he moved to Philadelphia, Swavee was walking with 179 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: his neighbor, thirteen year old Axel Serrano. It was almost 180 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 3: midnight on a Saturday, and save says they were both 181 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 3: dealing for Fat Wilson, the neighborhood kingpin. This is when 182 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: they ran into thirteen year old Danny Martinez, a neighborhood 183 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: kid who worked on a rival drug block. And the 184 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: only thing we know for sure about that night is 185 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: that Danny was shot in the head and he died 186 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: days later in the Hall hospital. Suave says right after 187 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: the shooting, he and Axel took off running. Later, Axel's 188 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: mom took him down to the police station and named 189 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 3: Suave as the shooter. Swave was taken into custody a 190 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: few days later, and so once arrested, Suave says, the 191 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 3: Philadelphia District Attorney's office offered him a deal. If he 192 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 3: testified for the prosecution, they would give him a lighter sentence. 193 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: The thing is is that taking that plea would mean 194 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: that you would have to point the finger at someone. 195 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: As Hotel first. 196 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: That's who hit the deal, and that you know, basically 197 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: kind of being a rat in terms of the street. 198 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: Swabe was not prepared to do that. 199 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 4: And on top of that, you know, he was pretty 200 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 4: much alliterate at the time. He says, he didn't know 201 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 4: what he was being offered. 202 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna take I don't know. 203 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 5: I'm sorry, because alloyed two times before. 204 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: Trial, Axel's cooperation with the police paid off. For pointing 205 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 3: to Suave. He got his own charges bumped down to 206 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 3: a more lenient juvenile court, where even if found guilty, 207 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: he'd face a lighter sentence over a year later, Suave 208 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 3: stood before a judge, charged as an adult with murder 209 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 3: in the first degree, robbery, criminal conspiracy, and possession of 210 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: an instrument of a crime a gun. Only one witness 211 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: spoke at his trial, a seventeen year old girl, Sharon Benjamin, 212 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 3: also lived in the Bad Lens, about a block away 213 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 3: from Danny Martinez. She testified that Suave, along with Axel, 214 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: had tried to rob Danny of the fusia fur trimmed 215 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 3: bomber jacket he was wearing that night. 216 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 7: At maybe ten of eleven, not far from eleven. I 217 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 7: went to the store on Athan Cambria, but I was closed, 218 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 7: and I saw Danny on the corner. 219 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: The original trial was not recorded, so we hired actors 220 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: to read from the transcripts. 221 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 7: He asked me where I was going, and I told 222 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 7: him I was going to the other store because that 223 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 7: one was closed, and he said and he would walk 224 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 7: me because it was too dark for me to walk 225 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 7: by myself. When we got to the corner, we noticed 226 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 7: these two people that had come and stood in front 227 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 7: of us, so we couldn't go past, and they were 228 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 7: standing there, and so we just stood there because we 229 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 7: didn't know them. And the taller of the two boys 230 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 7: said take it off. She points at Suave. 231 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 3: Savee was tall and one hundred and thirty five pounds, 232 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 3: Danny was short, only five to ninety pounds. 233 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 4: She says. Suave demanded Danny give him his bomber jacket. 234 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 7: But Danny and I didn't know him, so we turn 235 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 7: around to go back where we came from, and he 236 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 7: put his hand on his shoulder, and both of us 237 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 7: turn around to face them again, and Danny said what 238 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 7: And then the taller boy said take it off again. 239 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 7: But Danny didn't have a chance to respond because he 240 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 7: had taken out a gun and had it at Danny's 241 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 7: head and shot him. 242 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 3: Then save tells his version of the story. It's a 243 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 3: completely different version than Sharon's. He said it was just 244 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 3: a fight gone terribly wrong. 245 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 10: There was no rob I was coming from Fifth and Somerset, 246 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 10: a restaurant, and I was walking down Somerset Street heading 247 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 10: back home. I was walking by the school edison. That's 248 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 10: when three guys came out, and one of them said, 249 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 10: I caught you by yourself. Give it up. 250 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: Savee tells about an earlier argument on Thanksgiving with Danny 251 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: and how Danny threatened that if he saw Swabe again 252 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: there would be a fight. Now that fight was about 253 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 3: to happen, Suave says Danny wasn't alone with Sharon that night. 254 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 3: He says Danny's friends had ganged up on him. 255 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 10: That's when one of the guys came up and punched 256 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 10: me on my left eye and I fell down. I 257 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 10: got back up and I started fighting back. That's when 258 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 10: one of them came up with a knife and struck 259 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 10: me in the less side of my shoulder. Then I 260 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 10: met Axel Serrano. 261 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: Suave says, Axel was standing on the corner keeping a 262 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 3: lookout for cops. 263 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 10: Axel Serrano took out a gun and he gave it 264 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 10: to me. When he gave it to me, just went off. 265 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 4: Suave says it was an accident. 266 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: Two teens, Sharon and Suave, two versions of events, very 267 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: little evidence for either version, but the judge believed Sharon's 268 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 3: and so Suave was sentenced to life in prison without 269 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 3: the possibility of parole. To understand how Suave was convicted 270 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 3: with such a harsh sentence without any direct physical evidence, 271 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 3: we need to talk about the political environment at the 272 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: time Suave was tried. Juvenile offenders in Philadelphia faced a 273 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 3: district attorney's office which routinely sought the harshest punishment possible 274 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: for crimes, including the death penalty, that placed tremendous power 275 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: in prosecutors' hands. The things the Philadelphia District Attorney's office 276 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: did was offer kids deals promising not to seek the 277 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: death penalty if they gave up being tried by a jury. 278 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: And so this was just one of the reasons that 279 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,239 Speaker 3: Philadelphia became the at the center of the juvenile lifer population. 280 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: Now it begins to make sense, like why is it 281 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: that there were so many juvenile lifers based in Pennsylvania. 282 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: Over five hundred juvenile lifers in Pennsylvania and a large 283 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: number of them are locked up at Greaterford State Prison 284 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 3: where swaves and helping them get there was prosecutor Roger King. 285 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: He was known for attaining more death penalty convictions than 286 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: any other prosecutor in the city. 287 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 9: Roger King was a fixture trying some of the city's 288 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 9: biggest case is Dasap Williams calls him a legendary prosecutor 289 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 9: and says he was a wonderful man and committed to justice. 290 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: Let me just be clear, So you're saying that Roger 291 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: King is this basically very aggressive ada in Philly, and 292 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: he's basically worth throwing the book at you. 293 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: Right, And so this is the administration Suave is being 294 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: prosecuted under. These kids are terrified of the death penalty, 295 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: including Suave, and so he did take a deal, no 296 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 3: jury trial to remove the threat of the death penalty, 297 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 3: and instead his case was heard by one judge who 298 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 3: will decide if Swave will go free or spend his 299 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 3: life in prison. 300 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: Wait, but if you just go in front of a judge, 301 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: then it's like you don't have to you don't have 302 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: to present the evidence to twelve human beings. I bet 303 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these cases would have been challenged. It 304 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: would have been hard to get a conviction. 305 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 3: So there would have been a lot more scrutiny. And 306 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: so that one judge sided with Sharon Benjamin's version of events, 307 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 3: and that was it. Suave was arrested at seventeen, too 308 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: young to vote, too young to drink, too young to 309 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: serve in the military, but old enough to receive a 310 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 3: sentence meant to guarantee he would die in prison. 311 00:18:10,720 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 4: We'll be right back, We're back. 312 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 3: Suave's early years in prison looked a lot like his 313 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 3: life on the streets of Philadelphia. 314 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 4: Ooh those I mean. 315 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: First of all, Greaterford was like it was a big 316 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: ass prison. There was a lot of corruption, a lot 317 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: of violence. 318 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 2: Just as it is. 319 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: He comes into this prison. 320 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 5: My mom used to bring me drugs in the prison. 321 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 5: That's how crazy I was. My mom used to bring 322 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 5: me weed every week to the prison. 323 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: And he says he was getting the weed and selling 324 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: it inside to other guys. 325 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 4: On the block. 326 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: I used to get money send it home to my mom. 327 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: It's like Greaterford was, you know, it was just another version. 328 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: It was the South Bronx, North Philly and now Greater 329 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: for maximum security prison. He just had to prove himself 330 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: all over again. 331 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: There was all. 332 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 5: Chaos, chaos, people is getting sad. People was getting these 333 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 5: sales round. You had to be paid for street wall 334 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 5: at all times. 335 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: That was the type of jail. 336 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 3: This was so Swabe says, he becomes that tough guy 337 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 3: he always wanted to be, and he says the things 338 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 3: he's doing land him in the hole solitary confinement over 339 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: and over, Maria. Even soon after his first meeting with you, 340 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: he says, he went into solitary for fighting with the guard. 341 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't hear from Swabe for years, so 342 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: you know what I came to understand is that when 343 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: he was in solitary it was pretty bad. Later he 344 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: would tell me that he spent twenty three hours a 345 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: day alone, locked down in a windowless cell, and that 346 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: if he could get one hour of yard time he 347 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: would be so lucky. 348 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: And from time to. 349 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 11: Time, you know, I used to found myself talking to 350 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 11: myself and the whole like you get a lobly liar 351 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 11: is you can't hit nothing with the guard, but with 352 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 11: the door to feed. 353 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 2: You what a plastic trade is like? You know, you 354 00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: had this conversation with. 355 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 11: Yourself, and people used to say, as long as you 356 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 11: don't answer yourself back, you're not crazy. But at just 357 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 11: part of me in the hole then and talking to 358 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 11: the roaches when they when they walk by, you becomeing 359 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 11: you you want. 360 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 2: That little roach to come back every night, because you 361 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 2: know you look forward to that. That was like company. 362 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 7: Savee says. 363 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 4: At one point he starts talking with another man. 364 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: Through the wall, this older guy. 365 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 5: He's been in the hole like ten years at that time, 366 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 5: and I used to ask him. I used to ask him, 367 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 5: can you write my letters for me? And he was like, no, 368 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 5: but I'm gonna show you how to read this in 369 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 5: the hole. And he used to give me a word 370 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 5: every day. I used to memorize and spell it back 371 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 5: to Helm. I went in there without knowing how to 372 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 5: read him write, and I came out of there and 373 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 5: knowing somewhat a couple of words, and that inspired me 374 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 5: to keep going. 375 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 3: So when he gets out of solitary, he's determined to 376 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 3: become fully literate by identifying letter by letter the words 377 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 3: and the books he memorized. And that's when he decided 378 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 3: to get a ged and eventually he enrolls in college. 379 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: He starts reading all the time, and he's like reading 380 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: books about history, philosophy, law, pop culture. 381 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 3: And he's feeling good about his own education and it 382 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 3: starts to spread to his crew of friends. 383 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 5: I just decided that, you know what, I'm gonna put 384 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 5: my team, well what I call my team, I'm gonna 385 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 5: put them on in college and I build organization with 386 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 5: every ball member. And my organization had a college degree. 387 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 5: And the jail couldn't understand it. It was like, what 388 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 5: is you doing. I'm building the school, That's what I 389 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 5: told you John building the school. Plenty of people tell 390 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 5: me the school. What do what the greed in prison 391 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 5: gonna do for you? Absolutely nothing not there. When I 392 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 5: gave my degree, I'm gonna put it up with my 393 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 5: wall to probably collect some dust. Nothing in prison, But 394 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 5: I use it to motivate other people there. And you 395 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 5: can have one hundred years and you still go to 396 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 5: school to heducate yourself. 397 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 3: For a while, Suave took a job at Greater for 398 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: its manufacturing plant, making uniforms. 399 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 5: I produce this here. This is what I produce all 400 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 5: day long, Sir DC. 401 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 3: This is a video produced by the Department of Corrections 402 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 3: in two thousand and one. It was later used in 403 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 3: schools for youth crime prevention. Save points to piles of 404 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 3: neatly folded brown uniforms. There's dozens of piles, each nearly 405 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 3: as tall as he is. 406 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: It may poly did all is one day. All this 407 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 2: is right here. You could combine this. This is the 408 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: equivalent twenty five cents worth of work right here. 409 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 12: So Suave and the men at the plant they cut, sewed, 410 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 12: and pressed hundreds of uniforms daily. And so this super 411 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 12: repetitive task left Suave with so much time to think. 412 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, you know, he's looking at these uniforms 413 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: like one after another, and he's thinking about, oh, this 414 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: is for all the people, the men who they're expecting 415 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: to come into this prison, and he's like this has 416 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: got to stop, Like how does this stop? How does 417 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 1: this cycle stop? And he really, like zeros In, becomes 418 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: obsessed with education. 419 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 5: Most people that go to prisons are not called criminals. 420 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 5: Most people go to prison because they do stuff out 421 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: of necessity. They just don't know the system, they don't 422 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 5: know the law, so they get caught up. 423 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 2: So people change. Yes, I'm living prove of that. 424 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: And so he comes up with this idea to help 425 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: at risk teens who are in the community, and he 426 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: wants to help with their schooling, and that then takes 427 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: off to like, oh, well wait, let's create a scholarship program. 428 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 5: So I Sell, I got to come up with the money. 429 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 5: So what we did We donated our own funds to 430 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 5: the school district to start the scholarship. 431 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 3: So in two thousand and eight, Swave goes sell to 432 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 3: Sell asking men to donate from their commissary. 433 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: So I remember when Suave called me and he told 434 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: me that this scholarship, you know, like I thought it 435 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: was just an idea. Now he's calling and he's telling 436 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: me that they have raised like a few hundred dollars 437 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: in the first year. And you know that might not 438 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: sound like a lot of money, you know, a few 439 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: hundred dollars, but you have to remember these are men 440 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: who get paid twenty cents an hour to work inside 441 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: the prison. To make a donation is a huge sacrifice, 442 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, for them. And it continued. Year after year, 443 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: they continued to raise even more money and to donate it. 444 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: And it was around this time that Suavest starts writing 445 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: novels about life in the hood. And eventually this independent 446 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: publisher begins printing his books, and Suave, from inside the prison, 447 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: from being this illiterate guy, is now penning six novels 448 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: of his own. And you know, I don't look, I 449 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: don't want to give the false impression that everything was, 450 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, like going fabulously for Suave at this time, 451 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: because you know, the truth is, like he was also 452 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: having this moment where he's realizing he's a forty year 453 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: old man who has never spent a single day of 454 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: his adult life in the outside world, and so he 455 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: knows that no matter how much he does right, he 456 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: is still gonna die inside this prison. 457 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 13: What's college time, Bruin's father? Hundred dollars? Everybody, I've been crying. 458 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 13: I've been crying a whole lot, lady. 459 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: And why are you crying so much? 460 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 2: Now? You know? 461 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 13: Because it really it really hurts me, Like my family 462 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 13: knew me as one person and they don't really know 463 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 13: who I am today, and you know, and before you know, 464 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 13: I had this attitude when I was younger. Way reul 465 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 13: Mans don't cry, you know, But that's a lie. Because 466 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 13: when these dolls lie, and you and yourself and there's 467 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 13: nobody around, believe me. 468 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: You crime. 469 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 13: And in the course of you being incarcerated with a 470 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 13: life sentence, you're gonna lose your mother, You're gonna lose 471 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 13: your father, You're gonna lose family members, and you can't 472 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 13: go to the funeral or you can't make a phone 473 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 13: call that you're feeling that pain. 474 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: M So this is where Suave is at. 475 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen, when the Supreme Court ruled to have 476 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 3: all juvenile life er cases who were sentenced under mandatory 477 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 3: laws reevaluated, Suave finally has a resentencing date, and his 478 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: lawyers and prosecutors agreed on a deal to get him out. 479 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 3: They're going to ask the judge to re sentence Suave 480 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 3: to thirty years in prison, a sentence he's already served. 481 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: If the judge agrees, he can get out pretty much 482 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 3: right away, but on lifetime parole, which is a very 483 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: conditional kind of freedom for most paroles. That means no drinking, 484 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 3: no leaving the state without permission, drug tests, random home visits, 485 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 3: and regular check ins with a parole officer for the 486 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: rest of your life. Suave initially doesn't want to do this. 487 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 3: He knows lifetime parole means any mistake could land him 488 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 3: back in prison, But in the end he decides to 489 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: accept a deal to get out. The judge just has 490 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: to agree, and anything could happen. The weight is nerve wracking. 491 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: How are you trying to stay centered? 492 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 13: So I'm talking to you, I'm going back to myself. 493 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 13: I'm gonna listen to my soul and I'll give me that. 494 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 3: When Suave says his song, he means the song Patience 495 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 3: by Nas and Damian Marley, which you Maria introduced him to. 496 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: So I remember one time when Swabe was having a 497 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: really challenging moment. I mean, he was sad and I 498 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: was telling him about a song that has really helped me, 499 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: you know, Patience by Nas and Swab said, well, wait, 500 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: I can listen to that song. He said, I have 501 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: an MP three player, which I didn't know, and I said, 502 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, we'll listen to it. 503 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 10: Real dead bide. 504 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 12: He's in my arms. 505 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 4: So the bloody turned cold. 506 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 13: I got to remind myself patience and that's how I'm working, 507 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 13: you know. But I want to go home on the ball. Yeah, 508 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 13: oh yeah, boy. I don't want expect them to make 509 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 13: it easy easy. 510 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 3: Finally, the day of resentencing arrives. It's July sixth, twenty seventeen, 511 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: and Marie, you're on the Amtrak to Philadelphia and the 512 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 3: reality is setting in that this relationship you've had for 513 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: decades from across prison bars could suddenly move into the 514 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 3: real world. 515 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: It's this very strange experience that I have with this 516 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: other human being right that I frankly, I don't spend 517 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time thinking about Swabe in my life, 518 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: Like I have an incredibly full full life of work, travel, jobs, job, yeah, 519 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: multiple jobs, husband, kids, you know, and Suave pops into 520 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: my life with a phone call that I never know 521 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: when it's going to come. You know, I'm thoughtful about 522 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: what he's experiencing, and we talk about him at work. 523 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: But in the last forty eight hours, I've been finding 524 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: myself like, what's he doing now? And now what is 525 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: Swavi doing? And now what's going to happen? I mean, 526 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: this is this is mind blowing. 527 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 3: One more thing you're thinking over to yourself on this 528 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: train ride. Suave's request for you to speak on his 529 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 3: behalf it. 530 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: Was like something that I felt like I should do 531 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: because I actually, you know, can under oath just talk 532 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: about my experience with this person. But then, you know, 533 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: I have really super smart journalists colleagues, and they were like, no, 534 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,479 Speaker 1: you can't for all kinds of reasons. You know, it's 535 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: complicated because you know, I have to acknowledge I'm reporting 536 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: on suavit right, I'm reporting on him at this point, 537 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm recording our phone calls. I can't get involved with 538 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: a source like that, so that's like an issue. And also, 539 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, I don't really know him outside of prison, 540 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: so what if something does happen when he gets out 541 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: and I'm on the record. 542 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 3: As you arrive at the courthouse, you have to turn 543 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 3: your recorder off. There's no recording allowed inside. 544 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: Just after three o'clock, you know, everybody's kind of rushed in, 545 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: and finally it's like I didn't get to get in, 546 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: and everybody sits down. You know, the room was full, 547 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: Actually it was. It was pretty much packed. Most of us, 548 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, strangers to each other, but everybody there for 549 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: the same reason. And Suave walks into the courtroom. Oh 550 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: my god, he looked horrible. His face looked horrible. He 551 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: looked like he hadn't slept, he looked like he hadn't eaten. 552 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: He looked like he had been crying. And you know, 553 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: Swab is this big guy. He's like a football player, 554 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: big with these broad shoulders. He's like five eleven, two 555 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty pounds, and he's wearing this huge suit 556 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: that was way too bagging. And he never turned his head, 557 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: never even lifted his head to look at any of us. 558 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I was like, surely he's going 559 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: to turn around and you know, look for me. Na 560 00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: that nothing at all. 561 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 3: Well again, so the DA put the thirty year deal 562 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: on the table, but the judge could still say no, 563 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,479 Speaker 3: he must have been really nervous. 564 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: We were all nervous because, you know, just like one 565 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: single judge had decided if Swabe was going to spend 566 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: his life in prison when he was seventeen, now here 567 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: he is at forty seven, and another single judge is 568 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: going to decide if he's going to get a second 569 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: chance at life. 570 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 3: Finally, the judge enters, She asks Suavee if there's anything 571 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 3: he wants to tell the court before she reveals her decision. Again, 572 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 3: we recreated this moment from the transcripts. Your Honor Save begins. 573 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 10: Our Luis Gonzales feels sincerely grief and express remorse for 574 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 10: causing the death of Daniel Martinez. I couldnot imagine the 575 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 10: amount of grief and pain the family have suffered as 576 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 10: a result of my actions. I felt tremendous guilt then 577 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 10: and I still do now. The day mister Martinez died, 578 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 10: the irresponsibility of Luis Gonzalez died also. I felt remorse 579 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 10: every day since. Because I'm aware of the ripple effect 580 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 10: of my actions to not allow mister Martinez to be 581 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 10: in vain, I realize I have to continue taking on 582 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 10: the challenges of becoming an instrument of love and kindness, 583 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 10: as well as becoming a crusader to en violence in 584 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 10: our community. I'm sorry I failed each and every one 585 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 10: of you as a man, brother, uncle, a friend, and 586 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 10: most of all a citizen. To my mother, I'm sorry 587 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 10: you never got the chance to see your only son 588 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 10: become a responsible man. I'm sorry for being an embarrassment 589 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 10: to the family. I only hope that one day I'm 590 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 10: able to serve my community with integrity, honor, and respect. 591 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 7: I narrow re sentenced the defendant, Luis Gonzalez, on the 592 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 7: charge of murder and the first degree to thirty years 593 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 7: to life. 594 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. I just I was like, 595 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe this. If he's sentenced 596 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: to thirty years, he's already done thirty years, which means 597 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: he's going to get out. I mean, he's going to 598 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: be able to go straight to parole. The judge just 599 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: made this happen all of these years, and I just 600 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: saw her say this, you have been re sentenced to 601 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: thirty years. 602 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 10: Boom, he's going to get out. 603 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 8: You set the bar high. 604 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 7: You said I can do much with the gifts I've 605 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 7: been given. We're going to look forward to that. 606 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Juliata Martinelli and Maggie Freeley 607 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: and edited by Audrey Quinn. Suave the podcast is a 608 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,479 Speaker 1: production of Fuduo Studios, distributed by PRX. The executive editor 609 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: is Marlon Bishop. Fact checking by in the Tardi. Subscribe 610 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 1: to the Suave podcast listen to what happens next. Just 611 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: search for the word Suave wherever you get your podcasts 612 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: on the lat You Know USA. Team includes Diel Massias, 613 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: Andrea Loquez, Grusdo, Marta Martinez, Alissa Escarce, Ginni Montalo, Alejandra 614 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: salasad Rinaldo, Leanos Junior and Julia Rocha, with help from 615 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: Raoul Berees. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebau, Julia caruz So 616 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: and Lea Shaw, with help from elishaba Eto. Our digital 617 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: editors Lispuna. Our interns Arsamantha Friedman and Carl Ruben. Our 618 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: theme music was composed by Zanyer Rubinos. If you like 619 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: the music you heard on this episode, be sure you 620 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: stop by Lettino Usa dot org and check out our 621 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer marienho Hosa. 622 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode. And in the meantime, 623 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: look for us on all of your social media iloswatch 624 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: on a start of Proxima Child. 625 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 14: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 626 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 14: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities. More at hsfoundation 627 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 14: dot org. The Art for Justice Fund a special project 628 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 14: of Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors and the Ford Foundation working with 629 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 14: visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. 630 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 8: Mm hmmm, you made. 631 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: Fried chicken, fried Califile. 632 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 8: I can't make fried chicken. 633 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,760 Speaker 13: You will not go figures. 634 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 2: You know how? Teach you. 635 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: I'm Maria Novosa and next time on Latino USA, my 636 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,839 Speaker 1: conversation with multi Grammy Award winning artists and Puerto Rican 637 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: icon Posse Feliciato. That's next time on Latin USA.