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Speaker 1: Recording Destiny.

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Speaker 2: It's an emergency.

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Speaker 1: It is an emergency, Kitlin, it's an emergency.

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Speaker 3: You can hear the sirens maybe in the background of

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Speaker 3: my Brooklyn apartment once and not future apartment.

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Speaker 2: I'm moving back to Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to say, thank.

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Speaker 3: God, it's been too long and moving on back.

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Speaker 1: I'm coming back.

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Speaker 2: It's Brooklyn is overrated. I'm over it.

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Speaker 3: Also, I tried to play tennis this morning in some

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Speaker 3: fifty degree weather and my limbs just didn't work. So

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Speaker 3: I think winter tennis is now officially indoors for me.

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Speaker 4: Well, have faith, Kaitlin, because I know that it's getting

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Speaker 4: up to the mid to latter sixties in the next

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Speaker 4: couple of days, so there's still time for you.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's wrong.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be sixty at most at most this fall.

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Speaker 2: Freet it.

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Speaker 3: I'm grappling, I'm trying. I'm liking full more. I'm watching

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Speaker 3: a lot of tennis indoors. But one thing that the

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Speaker 3: tennis is giving is it's giving drama, which is why

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Speaker 3: you're recording an emergency podcast. I mean, really, truly, this

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Speaker 3: is just like our weekly podcast, but it's more fun

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Speaker 3: to call it an emergency pod because there's been some

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Speaker 3: insane news based on former world number one Simona Hallup

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Speaker 3: testing positive for a banned substance very recently.

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Speaker 2: Walk us through what has happened?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean you're as I mean, I mean, I'm

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Speaker 4: sort of speechless with it because I'm so shocked by

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Speaker 4: this because and you know, I've tweeted about it, I've

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Speaker 4: written my thoughts a little bit on the subject. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's hard to know because until the full scale of

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Speaker 4: you know, what has happened comes out and what happened

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Speaker 4: and how it happened, you know, I'll sort of reserve completeudgment.

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Speaker 4: But I have to say, Caitlin like knowing Simona like

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Speaker 4: I do, and I think I know her fairly well.

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Speaker 4: She's just a really good kid. You know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know how to describe it. You know, somebody asked me

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Speaker 4: on you know, Twitter, like you know, who is the

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Speaker 4: person to do this? Like, you know, it's like she's

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Speaker 4: just not that person. Well, and the reason I say

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Speaker 4: that as one, I just I don't feel or see

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Speaker 4: her as being somebody who would first of all ingest

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Speaker 4: something that was maybe questionable to her body, but also

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Speaker 4: just she's just a pretty honorable kid, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean. And just from conversations I've had with her,

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Speaker 4: she doesn't get into sensationalizing things.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't really want a gossip like.

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Speaker 4: She just she's just a good kid. So I just

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Speaker 4: I was so surprised by this, and my first thought was,

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Speaker 4: you know, you know, she's got a new team over

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Speaker 4: the last year, you know, have they had her sort

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Speaker 4: of you know, taking a new supplement, which is very possible, Caitlin,

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Speaker 4: and even they don't know, sort of like they didn't

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Speaker 4: do research. I'm grasping at straws at this point because.

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Speaker 3: Let me back up and just sort of walk through

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Speaker 3: the news, which is very recently, the International Tennis Integrity

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Speaker 3: Agent announced that they were suspending Palla provisionally after she

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Speaker 3: tested positive for the band substance rocks a dust at,

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Speaker 3: which is also basically an anti anemia medication. It trades

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Speaker 3: under the brand name Avrenzo, and it inhibits blah blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah blah. Basically, it sounds like it makes more

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Speaker 3: red blood cells, which obviously would be helpful. And it's

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Speaker 3: one of these sort of like seemingly like endurance kind

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Speaker 3: of aids where kind of similar to when I took

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Speaker 3: the incredibly great meldonium brand name Milder Nats substance that

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Speaker 3: got Maria Sharapova banned. I similarly had a great experience

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Speaker 3: and got a lot basically like a lot fitter and

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Speaker 3: less stiff within a matter of days upon taking it.

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Speaker 3: So this seems to be in that category where it's

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Speaker 3: like it makes your body feel better and it allows

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Speaker 3: you to recover. She took positive for it, and now

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Speaker 3: that means she has you know, she kind of already

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Speaker 3: shut down her season. She'd already announced that she was,

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Speaker 3: you know, getting some rhino plast ye earlier this year

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Speaker 3: because I guess she'd had some breathing problems for a

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Speaker 3: long time. Obviously, this first year was her maiden tour

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Speaker 3: season with coach Patrick Moradi Glue, So that kind of

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Speaker 3: fills in some of the gaps based on what you

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Speaker 3: were just saying, which is she's got a new team.

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Speaker 3: She's had some ups and downs with that team this year,

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Speaker 3: and I think the reason that so many people are shot,

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Speaker 3: including Patrick Morada Glue, who is her new coach, who

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Speaker 3: came out and very to me, very strenuous objected to

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Speaker 3: the idea that she would ever cheat, which is align

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Speaker 3: with what you just said, which is anybody in the

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Speaker 3: tennis space is really baffled by how this happened. Now,

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Speaker 3: let me ask you, is there are people and I

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Speaker 3: won't ask you to name them, but there are people

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Speaker 3: on the tour where if they test a positive, you'd

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Speaker 3: be like, yeah, sure that makes sense. Is that is

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Speaker 3: that fair to say?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think Look, if there were some that tested positive,

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Speaker 4: you'd be like, okay, okay, Like you know, and I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to say names, but obviously you would be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that sort of makes sense. You know, they had an

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Speaker 4: incredible rise for a year and then they disappeared, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like or you know, they played

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Speaker 4: great for two years and was ranked in top ten

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Speaker 4: and now they've never been seen again.

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Speaker 1: Like maybe maybe that's possible.

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Speaker 4: But I think the thing that really helped me also

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Speaker 4: feel better about me sort of thinking that this is

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Speaker 4: an error in judgment and not a yeah, let's do this.

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Speaker 4: I want to cheat, you know physically, is you know

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Speaker 4: Darren Cahill's Instagram message that he put out when he

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Speaker 4: strenuously said every time or any time she was taking something,

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Speaker 4: whether it was for who knows, like a cold or

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Speaker 4: sickness or whatever, you know, And players do have to

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Speaker 4: do this all the time, Caitlin, whenever they're taking anything

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Speaker 4: for a sickness or an ailment or any kind of

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Speaker 4: something going on in their lives, you know, And it

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Speaker 4: could be it could be something medically that a doctor says,

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Speaker 4: well you've got this now, and so you need to

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Speaker 4: take that. You know, the first thing you say is

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Speaker 4: is it banned? And you know, Darren said on a

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Speaker 4: very strenuously I think way more than what Patrick said.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he said she. I mean, he gave instances

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Speaker 4: of when she did take something she adamantly said three

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Speaker 4: or four times, is this okay? Is it on the

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Speaker 4: band list? Can I take it?

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Speaker 1: Are you sure?

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Speaker 2: Are you sure?

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Speaker 1: Are you sure?

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Speaker 4: And I mean he was around her more than anybody

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Speaker 4: has in the last decade, and he said that's how

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Speaker 4: she would approach anything that she was putting into her system.

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Speaker 4: So I don't understand why, you know, someone who was

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Speaker 4: around her for you know, good four or five years,

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Speaker 4: you know, it makes a statement like that that adamantly

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Speaker 4: says she was very very on top of making sure

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Speaker 4: that it was okay. So then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: you know, being positive for something. It just seems out

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Speaker 4: of out of you know, not context, but out of

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Speaker 4: character for her to you know.

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Speaker 2: To.

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Speaker 3: She's a veteran, right like, if she were, it's hard

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Speaker 3: to imagine. It is kind of similar to the to

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Speaker 3: the chess scandal that has been capturing everyone's imagination, which

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Speaker 3: is probably, aside from the Queen's Gambit, the first time

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Speaker 3: you can say that chess has captured the world's imagination,

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Speaker 3: at least recently, you know, with respect to like Wobbi Fisher,

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Speaker 3: like or Gary Kasparov.

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Speaker 2: The fact that this.

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Speaker 3: Guy came out of nowhere won a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: chess tournaments with very sketchy moves and sort of weird

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Speaker 3: behavior that not moverment and people had seen before a

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Speaker 3: good example of when something feels off. Somebody comes out

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Speaker 3: of nowhere, is playing incredible and then when you think,

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Speaker 3: how could it be possible that they were cheating, which

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Speaker 3: now this guy has been you know, obviously like scandalized.

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Speaker 3: You know, this, this scandal has has sensationalized the entire

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Speaker 3: chess universe. It seems pretty likely that guy was cheating.

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Speaker 3: Simona Help is not somebody who came on to the

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Speaker 3: scene yesterday. She's won a Hampfog Grand Slams, she's won Wimbledon,

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Speaker 3: in the French Open, and she's been you know, pretty

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Speaker 3: consistently in the top ten or twenty at least for

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Speaker 3: a decade. Right, Like, yeah, this is it is a

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Speaker 3: little bit weird to think that right now right here,

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Speaker 3: you know, But doping, I don't know, doping in sports

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Speaker 3: is so strange, like especially with tennis, like a lot

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Speaker 3: of times it's been you know, some of these things

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Speaker 3: are legal one day and then not the next, which

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Speaker 3: is why I really defended Maria Sharapova when she got

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Speaker 3: tested for maldonium, tested positive, and it was right within

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Speaker 3: month's time of the drug being deemed illegal, so it

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Speaker 3: had gone from being safe and over the counter to

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Speaker 3: not not you know, not allowed, and then it was

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Speaker 3: still maybe in her system even though she had stopped

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Speaker 3: taking it. We don't know, like we don't know what

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Speaker 3: the shelf life is, we don't what the metabolism time is.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I took the drug. It obviously was great,

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Speaker 3: But to me that always like seemed a little bit harsh,

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Speaker 3: and they were making an example out of her. You know,

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Speaker 3: Richard Guskier got busted with you know, cocaine in his system,

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Speaker 3: but he said he kissed someone at a nightclub. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: Sarah Ronnie's really really famous one.

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Speaker 2: You know, my mom's tote me like what.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, it fell in the medication, fell in

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Speaker 3: the tortolini and the like.

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Speaker 1: Right, how Italian is that?

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Speaker 3: It's also definitely not true.

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Speaker 4: Like definitely not true. Well that's a good example, right.

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Speaker 4: You know, she had a phenomenal year or two. You know,

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Speaker 4: I got to number two in the world ye.

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Speaker 3: Finals, didn't She didn't she make a final of at

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Speaker 3: least the French Open.

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Speaker 4: She met the French Final and everyone was like, well, like,

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Speaker 4: I mean, good player, but you know she can't even

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Speaker 4: serve anymore. So I mean, and I mean, I like,

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Speaker 4: I like Sarah, we're buddies. But it's like that was

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Speaker 4: a bit dodgy, and that was somebody who kind of

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Speaker 4: came out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: For about two or three years, it was just lighting

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Speaker 1: the world on fire.

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Speaker 4: I mean, she's went singles and doubles and like Grand

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Speaker 4: Slams and every I mean it was crazy. So I mean,

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Speaker 4: who's to know, right, Who's to know? And you can

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Speaker 4: speculate or you want, I mean this, but this situation

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Speaker 4: with some mine just she's such, she's a shy kid

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Speaker 4: and and like and a good kid, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the transformation in the last you know, there's definitely a

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Speaker 4: change you know with you know, her team. That that

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Speaker 4: is a question that is inevitably has been asked a

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Speaker 4: lot of over the last month now about that because

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Speaker 4: you know, unfortunately for Patrick and his team, they're they're

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Speaker 4: they're a part of it now and he's going to

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Speaker 4: adamantly have to sort of or his team are going

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Speaker 4: to have to. I'm sure at some point that someone's

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Speaker 4: going to get thrown under the bus there and you know,

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Speaker 4: but Simona is the one that's going to pay the price.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind we're

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Speaker 4: not going to be seeing her for about two years,

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Speaker 4: if we ever see her again. I think it's a

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Speaker 4: it's a sad story in tennis. I think there's no

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Speaker 4: way getting around this. And because it was Inner System and.

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Speaker 3: Play Devil's Advocate, because I I just you know, if

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Speaker 3: we list players who've been tagged for banned drugs, I

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Speaker 3: mentioned and again tagged is sort of I'm using that

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Speaker 3: word is doing a lot of work in the sentence

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Speaker 3: because in some cases there was a positive test but

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Speaker 3: no real repercussions. In other cases it was like a

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Speaker 3: big deal. Like we're talking about like luminaries of the game,

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Speaker 3: like Matt's the Lounder, Maria Sharapova, Maren Chilich, Martina Haiges,

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Speaker 3: Richard gaskeag who I mentioned earlier, you know, Beatrice Hadad Maya,

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Speaker 3: Like these are like a lot of players. There are

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Speaker 3: also a lot of players, you know, if you look

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Speaker 3: up the use exemption players, players like Serena Williams, players

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Speaker 3: like Bethanye Madi Sans who are taking medications with permission

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Speaker 3: of the authorities, sometimes because they might have a cold,

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Speaker 3: or maybe they have an underlying medical condition and need riddling,

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Speaker 3: which I've heard is pretty pervasively used on both tours

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Speaker 3: by men and women, which maybe.

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Speaker 2: I should get riddlin.

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Speaker 3: You definitely need Redalan Jesus, Like, imagine what that could

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Speaker 3: do for you if you have severe attention deficit disorder

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Speaker 3: and it's related, you know, cousins like ADHD.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that gets you to baseline.

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Speaker 3: But if you have a mild case, maybe you're at

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Speaker 3: an advantage right, like, so I'm not wholesale, although I have,

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Speaker 3: in one of my more provocative Twitter provocations, made the

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Speaker 3: case that like, I'm not sure doping matters all that much,

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Speaker 3: which I don't necessarily know if I mean, but I

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Speaker 3: definitely feel like the gray area here is just massive, massive,

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Speaker 3: Like is it possible someone to help was taking something

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Speaker 3: without intending to cheat? But the gray area of whether

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Speaker 3: this was gonna be a problem or not was big

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Speaker 3: enough that it seemed like, oh, well, that's the cold

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Speaker 3: medication I always take, or like, oh I always take

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Speaker 3: this from my cramps, Like is there a world in

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Speaker 3: which it's not it? It definitely doesn't feel black and

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Speaker 3: white to me on the outside. Is there a world

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Speaker 3: in which in the tour it's also similarly a gray area?

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Speaker 3: Is it possible that somebody not intending to do like

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Speaker 3: outright cheating like I'm gonna inject steroids into my veins,

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Speaker 3: but rather like, oh you know what, I have a

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Speaker 3: Redlin perspective prescription already, so why wouldn't I just like

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Speaker 3: double dose on the days I have matches so I

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Speaker 3: can like really focus? Like is that cheating under the

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Speaker 3: strictest definition?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is other definitions. I'm pretty sure that's

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Speaker 3: happening from what I thought.

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Speaker 4: Why, well, I think in the long term, like you know,

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Speaker 4: when you think about Maria for example, you know, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of people suspected like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, it helped the long you took it.

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Speaker 4: You know what it's like, you know, when you get

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Speaker 4: to the third set, you're feeling pretty good because you're.

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Speaker 1: Not as you're not as exhausted.

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Speaker 4: So that's an advantage, you know, and I can I know,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of our very good friends under Epekovich

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Speaker 4: and different players like that are like Jesus no wonder,

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Speaker 4: I was fucking tired in the third set and she

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Speaker 4: was fine, like you know what I mean. So so yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's definitely was and could be an advantage in taking

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Speaker 4: something that somebody else is not taking.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely for years and years she was taking.

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Speaker 4: That and it was not on the band substance list.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so where's the gray area?

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Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden it is what you've just

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Speaker 4: finally discovered that it can help you and help you

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Speaker 4: breathe better and help you, you know, have longevity on

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Speaker 4: the court. Okay, well that should have probably been looked

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Speaker 4: at earlier. But if not, then it's absolutely okay. And

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Speaker 4: she was completely in her rights to do it, as

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Speaker 4: was every other player. So yeah, I think the gray

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Speaker 4: area comes down to how much did it help you

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Speaker 4: on the court against me? Right, So, you know, cocaine

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Speaker 4: in the system Hingus and gas gay and probably not.

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Speaker 3: Going to help me, right, or moments of helping you.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely gonna have moments of actively not helping.

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Speaker 4: So I mean you think players would be like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: no big deal, Like Hingus is in the Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 4: but she had a drug.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was.

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Speaker 4: Cocaine, so it's just like fine, you know, whereas Sarapova,

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Speaker 4: you know, and I got into trouble with her agent

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Speaker 4: for saying this, and I like Marie and she worked

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Speaker 4: for us off and listened. She you know, achieved a

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Speaker 4: tremendous amount in her career. But I said, on I said,

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Speaker 4: what are the Hall of Fame going to do? Because

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Speaker 4: she's technically the first player, well now second to be

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Speaker 4: a lock in the Hall of Fame that now, what

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Speaker 4: are the Hall of Fame going to do? Because they've

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Speaker 4: never had to deal with this in the past, and

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Speaker 4: so now they have two lock Hall of famers in

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Speaker 4: Maria Sharpovra and Simona Hallup that have been you know,

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Speaker 4: credibly accused and in one case and Maria's and soon

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Speaker 4: to be I'm sure in Simona's case of being banned

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Speaker 4: from the tour for taking a ped. So they're very

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Speaker 4: different to you know, getting caught, you know, snorting coke,

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Speaker 4: Like that's a different situation. The players would be like,

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Speaker 4: who cares? But the ped is a whole different story.

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Speaker 4: That's when players would have gotten pissed off. And I

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Speaker 4: know a lot of players, and I've spoken a lot

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Speaker 4: of players in Maria's case that were just angry at

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Speaker 4: about that, you know about at some point they didn't

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Speaker 4: realize how much it was helping her clearly and with Simona.

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Speaker 4: Now unfortunately, until you know this this has come to

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Speaker 4: a conclusion, players are going to have to wait and see.

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Speaker 4: But you know, the respect level for Simona in her

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Speaker 4: ability of ever hanging matches, you know, that's sadly going

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Speaker 4: to be questions. And that's what I said about Maria,

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Speaker 4: you know, sadly her her results prior to her band

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Speaker 4: will be questioned. And I said at the time, sadly

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Speaker 4: because you still got to hit the ball in the court, right,

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Speaker 4: you still got to manage the way you play tennis

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Speaker 4: and new anxieties and all that sort of stuff. But

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Speaker 4: certainly we all know when you get exhausted, you make

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Speaker 4: some pretty terrible decisions on the tennis court. And you know,

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Speaker 4: there's no question that that would have helped her.

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Speaker 3: I got roundly, roundly, roundly criticized. Even friends came out

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Speaker 3: of the woodwork to say that I was being a bonehead,

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Speaker 3: which is with what Simona no, with just the idea

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Speaker 3: that like who cares about doping?

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Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, such a waste of everybody's.

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Speaker 3: Time, Like because for me, it's like just one big

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Speaker 3: gray area. But I do think, you know. And also

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Speaker 3: the thing about tennis, unlike a sport that is so

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Speaker 3: reliant on speed or so reliant on power.

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Speaker 2: It's like if I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To be facing off in a huddle and like we're

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Speaker 3: playing rugby or American football and the person across has

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Speaker 3: been juicing and their body is going to train wreck mine,

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Speaker 3: Like yeah, if it's a situation where like, oh you

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Speaker 3: know what, tennis is still really really really hard and

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Speaker 3: you still have to make not only technique wise, like

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Speaker 3: a good showing, but you also have to, you know,

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Speaker 3: deploy good shot selection, keep your wits about you, you know,

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Speaker 3: stay in the moments, stay present. Like it to me

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Speaker 3: sometimes feels like it's not. It's so skills based that

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Speaker 3: it's less important if you are taking drugs or not. However,

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Speaker 3: I think the point you just made makes me reconsider

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Speaker 3: that stance, because you do make terribly stupid decisions if

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Speaker 3: you're tired, and being tired is such a disadvantage that

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Speaker 3: it is really hard not to argue that if you're

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Speaker 3: taking a drug like roxa dust, which is what Simona

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Speaker 3: was caught within her system, or meldonium or one of

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00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 3: these other ones that like increases the efficiency at which

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Speaker 3: your body operates, basically, you don't have a massive, massive advantage.

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Speaker 3: So I think I'm sort of walking it back, although

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Speaker 3: I might just leave it up on Twitter to keep

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Speaker 3: provoking people. So you know, I don't know that I

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Speaker 3: have the answers, but it does seem like this is

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Speaker 3: pretty bad, And I guess what I want to push.

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Speaker 1: You on is.

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Speaker 3: Simona's been premptively banned. The world is pretty divided. Pam

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Speaker 3: Shreiver started going after Patrick Moradiglo. Others have been more cautious.

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Speaker 3: I was really happy to see the PTPA maybe be

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Speaker 3: useful for ones, which is saying that they're going to

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Speaker 3: investigate and try to get some clarity, like all of

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Speaker 3: these different agents and governing bodies. What a great time

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00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 3: it would be no time like the present everybody to

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Speaker 3: just get all aligned and everybody's shit together and like

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Speaker 3: make some I don't know protections or clear rules or

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like do you see there being any

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Speaker 3: upside here where we could maybe you know, use this

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Speaker 3: as a teachable moment and actually get the tours to

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Speaker 3: do something I don't know better or more more player friendly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you.

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Speaker 4: Asked the player that's just been accused, absolutely right, and

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Speaker 4: there's no question like we you know, it's funny because

387
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 4: we had a we had our tit for tat Ying

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00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 4: Yang moment last week, you know, talking about egishiantech and

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Speaker 4: sort of like was that hindrance or not? And I said, well,

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Speaker 4: I went to the rule book. Well which rule book

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Speaker 4: did I go to? I went to all of them, Caitlin,

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Speaker 4: and they were all frigging different. So you know, that

393
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Speaker 4: is a perfect personification of the complete and utter mess

394
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Speaker 4: of professional tennis and tennis in general, is that.

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Speaker 1: We aren't under one umbrella.

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Speaker 4: So yes, this would be a teachable moment for the

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Speaker 4: tours to come together.

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 4: In my opinion, ATP and WTA almost should join. I

400
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 4: think it would be a stronger asset for everybody. And

401
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 4: I think in circumstances like this, and there's no question

402
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 4: that you would have an aligned group of players and

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Speaker 4: player representatives, you know, going after and fighting for the

404
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 4: players as opposed to like having to go through the

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00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 4: tournament and the agencies and the Grand Slams and the ITF.

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Speaker 4: I mean, god, it's like I can't even think about

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00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 4: how many entities there are in tennis. So yeah, absolutely,

408
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 4: this would be a great opportunity to have a players

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Speaker 4: union that really sticks.

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Speaker 1: Behind its players.

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Speaker 4: And also if a player is deemed to be in

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Speaker 4: the wrong, to be able to stand up for the

413
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 4: other players, right that have been screwed over in this situation,

414
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Speaker 4: if somebody has knowingly taking a drug that you know,

415
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 4: we didn't think they were, that's yeah, I mean, so

416
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 4: this could be this is a positive and a negative

417
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 4: possibly for Simona, right the Simona would have people behind

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Speaker 4: her that would support her, and players would support her

419
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 4: until proven absolutely guilty, until.

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Speaker 1: We know what and how this happened.

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00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's also strange to think that

422
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 3: ahead of the US Open, when players have got to

423
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 3: know that's like the most stringent time you're going to

424
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Speaker 3: be tested. I mean I know that having been tested

425
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Speaker 3: many times, as I'm sure you have.

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Speaker 1: I know you got too many times.

427
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: Like we got disportionately tested when I was on the

428
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: women's Tennessee at college because they had to meet a

429
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 3: quota of urine tests and they weren't keen to knock

430
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 3: on the doors of all the football and basketball players.

431
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 3: So the women's wonder why was over indexed in the

432
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: results when tests were randomized. So I remember getting almost

433
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Speaker 3: monthly for some of the years, like a drug test,

434
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Speaker 3: and you know, like the only thing that was in

435
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: my system was like you know, Keystone light beer, So

436
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,239
Speaker 3: there wasn't very much to to you know, but like

437
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 3: I certainly wasn't, you know, doping, And I think occasionally

438
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,959
Speaker 3: people would get caught with marijuana, which to me, if

439
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 3: you're a do you want athlete who's able to play

440
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 3: using marijuana, like more more power to you?

441
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: Like great, you know, hats off.

442
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 3: So I've always had this like sort of weird distrust

443
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: of drug tests, not because I don't think people should

444
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: be playing fairly, just because I don't.

445
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 2: Know how we draw the lines and what those lines are.

446
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 3: That said, there is no way you go into a

447
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: Grand Slam not knowing the way that at the beginning

448
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 3: of the school year, every single athlete on every single

449
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: team for the NCUBA requirements knew that we were going

450
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 3: to get drug tested. Like you you don't have there's

451
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: no mystery to that. And so the fact that she

452
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 3: got got is so crazy to me. And she seems

453
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: pretty spun out for I mean, I don't want to

454
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 3: pile on here, but like, you know, in addition to

455
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 3: the other stuff that I that we talked about, like

456
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 3: she lost in the first round to like somebody who

457
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: never won a professional tennis match, you know, she got

458
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 3: a divorce, like it's she's got a new coach. Like

459
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 3: it seems like whatever's going on with Simona is like

460
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 3: pretty strange, you know, like I don't know how to

461
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 3: make sense of it.

462
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, me, me, Needa and I listen.

463
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, if if it's true and she was

464
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 4: taking it and unbenigns to anybody again. Then, as I

465
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 4: said in the original to you know, this is terrible.

466
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,719
Speaker 4: But the second tweet was more about how I really feel, like,

467
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 4: I really I'm shocked, and I just I want to

468
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: believe that, and I said it in the tweet, I

469
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: just can't believe that she would take something.

470
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: Like this knowingly. And I really do believe that.

471
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 4: And look, she's been tested at nauseum like every other

472
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 4: top player has been tested at tournaments, you know, at home,

473
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 4: like the amount of times I got knocks on my

474
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 4: door at six thirty in the morning because that was

475
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 4: my allotment time of like when I was home, and

476
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 4: it is and you are literally every single day. You

477
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: have to tell Wada where you are every day. And

478
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 4: so you know, if for some reason you decide to

479
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 4: go and visit a friend for the night and you

480
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 4: forget to change your wider form and they come knocking

481
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: on your door, bomb, that's one. You know, they say

482
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: that that's one mark against you, and you have three

483
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 4: in you're out. And that's happened a couple of times

484
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 4: to players. I got to two one time, and mainly

485
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 4: because I was I drove somewhere and I forgot, you know,

486
00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 4: that about my tech.

487
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's what fun.

488
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 4: You know, you're monitored every single day while you're a

489
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 4: professional athlete.

490
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

491
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: I just remember that whole thing where famously they couldn't

492
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 3: like alis a cornee wouldn't come to the door like

493
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: she was like sleeping or something and water. I was

494
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 3: like outside and they're like, well we knocked three times,

495
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: so now you're in trouble. She was like no, but

496
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: there was in the shower like you cannot you know you.

497
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: I did not use the dobell or whatever it was.

498
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: It was as as possible.

499
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: I mean I was.

500
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: I actually took her sade as I often do, where

501
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: I was like, well this sounds like a reasonable You

502
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: guys didn't try very hard, and now she's well you.

503
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 4: Could have me. One time where I was driving back

504
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 4: from Orlando when I was living in Tampa and I

505
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 4: was driving back from Orlando where my fitness trainer was

506
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: and it's an hour drive and they just turned up

507
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 4: to my house.

508
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 1: And my gate. I was in the gated community. The

509
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: gate called me. He's like, oh, people from blah blah blah.

510
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: He'd test, said that they're here to test you or something.

511
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: I was like fuck.

512
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm a half an hour away, and

513
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 4: thank god had to be so bad in the car.

514
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: I didn't stop and pee because that would have been

515
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: a nightmare. But literally, I was like, tell her, I'm

516
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: on my way, on on my way.

517
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 4: You know, I'm twenty minutes away, or they would have

518
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 4: just gone, yeah, too bad, and.

519
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: Give me a mark on my thing.

520
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 4: And I got there and I literally just sitting on

521
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: my front porch of my house, and I like ran

522
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 4: in and I was like, I didn't even talk, and

523
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: I was like, just give me the friggin thing. I

524
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 4: peed in it quickly, and I was like like, get

525
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 4: out of here. But you know, if I, let's say

526
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 4: I didn't pick up the phone, or let's say I

527
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 4: wasn't next to the phone, or I missed a call,

528
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 4: which happens to everybody, or I didn't have marking RN

529
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 4: or who knows, you know, or I was still working

530
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 4: out in the gym.

531
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: I would have had a mark against me.

532
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 4: Now what if that was my third time and I

533
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 4: completely forgot Like that happens quite a bit. So I mean,

534
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: obviously it's very different. This situation is she was tested

535
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 4: and both her samples were positive, So you know, yeah,

536
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: I want to hold judgment.

537
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: I like someone a lot.

538
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 4: I think she's a really good kid, and I just

539
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 4: find it really hard, as I said in the tweet,

540
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: and I'll probably leave it at this until all the

541
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: rest comes out.

542
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: I just can't believe she would knowingly take something like that.

543
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to sort of now, I want to

544
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: play devil's advocate, and then I want to let you

545
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 3: go because you have a very new thing on the

546
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: horizon that I want to give you a chance to

547
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 3: talk about a little bit, if you.

548
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: Are so inclined.

549
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: But I just, after all this effort and all these

550
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: employees and all these people chasing people you know, you

551
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: and others down, like, do we have a coherent fair

552
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: sport that has made all this worth it?

553
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: Like?

554
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: Is what are doing a good job? Is it?

555
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: Is this a good use of anybody's time or effort.

556
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: Maybe the answer is yes, and it keeps the sport

557
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: as fair as it can be, and I should fuck off.

558
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel like that.

559
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: I think there's so many holes in the system, Caitlin,

560
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 4: but I think it's necessary in some respects to at

561
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 4: least have some kind of a boundary around safety and

562
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: personal safety for the players and also not having you know,

563
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 4: I look, players with a lot of money can afford

564
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 4: certainly doctors and people that can help them. And you know,

565
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: they also rounds that are not making the money that

566
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 4: you know, a top players making. You know, it's very

567
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 4: hard for them to sort of, I would say, cheat

568
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: and get away with it. So look, I think it's

569
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 4: it's an it's not a perfect system. It will probably

570
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 4: never be a perfect system. I think drug cheats will

571
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 4: always be ahead of the ahead of you know, wider.

572
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: I mean, just look at Icarus.

573
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: I mean, you just watch that show and you'll realize,

574
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 4: like what I'm talking about. Yeah, and you know, I think, look,

575
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 4: there's probably a lot of players that have left the

576
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 4: game or you know, gone, oh, maybe I shouldn't take

577
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 4: that anymore because maybe I will get caught. So you know,

578
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 4: there are boundaries on everything now, and I think that

579
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: as it's not a it's not a perfect system, but

580
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 4: it's probably sadly the best one that we have.

581
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: Well, the good news is for me, I don't get

582
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: drug tested for anything. So I'm gonna see if I

583
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: can get my hands on this stuff and see what

584
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 3: it happened, what happens.

585
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: Well, we love when you do that, Caitlin.

586
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: It's also true. I mean I really mean it. So

587
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: that's yeah.

588
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: Okay, So onto happier topics and then I'll let you

589
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: go because you need to run out the door, can you?

590
00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: What can you say about your new West endeavor? Glad

591
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: to talk about it?

592
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: Well, we're exploring a sports show on Amazon every.

593
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: Day, five days a week, so stay tuned on that.

594
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: I'll let you know and maybe by next week I'll

595
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 4: have a firmer concept and idea of what it looks

596
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 4: like and how it's going.

597
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're going to be seeing me a little

598
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: bit more on the old boob tube.

599
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 4: I'm still going to be doing all of my ESPN

600
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 4: stuff at Grand Slam, so I look forward to all

601
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 4: of you guys always see me on ESPN.

602
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's going.

603
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: To be a new world for me, and I think

604
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 4: i'll feel more comfortable in about a week giving you

605
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 4: more updates on it.

606
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: But it's definitely something that I'm excited about.

607
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: Awesome, all right, Well, thank you as Evan for check in. Stubbsy,

608
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: good luck on today's dress rehearsal and starting next week,

609
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: we can watch you on Amazon. Is there any more

610
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: information about where we can find you? Or should we

611
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 3: wait till next week to really roll it out?

612
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 4: Just get onto that Amazon Prime app and you will

613
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 4: probably see my name there next week.

614
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: Amazing.

615
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: All right?

616
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: Until soon, thank you as ever, and I'll see if I.

617
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: Can get my hands on some banded substances.

618
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we like that for you, Katelin, we like that. Okay, okay, bye,