WEBVTT - #509 Jason Flom with Manfred Younger 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.760 On June seventeenth, two thousand and seven, at around two 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.960 thirty a m bars emptied out into the streets of Camden, 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.960 New Jersey amid the crowd in the parking lot of 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.400 the seventh and Cane Lounge. Gunshots struck twenty four year 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.320 old Tierra Presley and thirty two year old Adrian Jackson, 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:26.040 but only Jackson survived and he was unable to offer 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:31.720 any leads. About six months later, Jackson was secretly recorded 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.080 speculating about the identity of his assailants, narrowing his suspects 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:40.599 to someone called Baby Jay and later another called Papa smurfh, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:45.479 which led police to Madford Younger and Anthony Parker, the 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.320 latter of whom was acquitted, but two jail house informants 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.199 claimed that Madford Younger had admitted to being one of 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.120 the shooters, sending him away for a minimum of sixty 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:09.120 six years. This is wrongful conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.520 You can listen to this and all the Lava for 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.199 Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:26.399 to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.120 to Wrongful Conviction, where we've got a New Jersey case. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.199 There haven't been many of those featured here, but that's 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:35.680 about to change. And calling in to tell his story 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:41.160 from a New Jersey correctional facility, Manfred Younger, Manfred, thanks 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:41.800 for joining us. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:43.240 Thank you, man I appreciate it. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.720 And joining Manford to help him tell this insane story 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.960 is a voice you're going to recognize. Justin Bonas, who's 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.760 been spending a great deal of time in Manfred's hometown 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.960 of Cambden, New Jersey, where he's uncovered quite a few 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:00.120 cases in a town that has a history of poverty 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.800 and corruption from law enforcement all the way up to 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.840 mayors who had promised urban renewal and economic revitalization. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.440 Yeah, because there's no improvement ever in Camden. I think 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.000 at one point they had four straight mayors that were 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.280 federally indicted. And then there's a period from like nineteen 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.639 ninety to twenty thirteen when the Camden County Police Department 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.520 was so corrupt. Camden is basically taken over by the 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.040 county in twenty twelve. Right before there was a takeover, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.960 there were like sixty homicides in a city that's only 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:39.919 like seventy five eighty thousand people the most and they 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.720 weren't solving them, and then the ones that they were solving. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.960 There's a lot of wrongful convictions, but there is a 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.320 sweet spot that I'm working on from like ninety nine 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.880 to like twenty eleven, and the show starts for real 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.040 with Martin Devlin, him and his partner Chuck Bentham. I 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.239 come to Camden from Phillya and what Devlin became a supervisor. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.840 There's a pattern of single photo identifications and jailhouse informants. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.000 Which is exactly what we're dealing with in this case. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.600 In our audience, you may recall Detective Martin Devlin from 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.079 some Philly cases that we covered, Jimmy Dennis, Tony Wright, 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:23.600 Walter Ogrod, Troy Coleman. And after playing his trade in 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.400 Philadelphia for twenty five long years, he crossed over the 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.120 bridge into one of the most impoverished cities in all 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.840 of America, Camden, New Jersey, where he continued his career 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:39.600 as an investigator in the Camden County Prosecutor's Office. While 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:41.360 Manfred was growing up. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.040 Yeah, I grew up in the city of Canaden then 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.800 with my mom and my sister and my father. My 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.440 father named Manfred J. Younger Jenior. So my name Manfred J. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.880 Younger Junior. So I got the baby J after my father. 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.040 I grew up playing community football and stuff that was good. 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.480 But we grew up hard city of Canda and the poverty. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.480 It's messed up out there. We ain't have hot water. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.400 We had to heat the house up with the oven, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.840 boil hot water on the stove. You know, wear each 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.640 other clothes where your friends clothed. When it rained, when 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.520 it's a thunderstorm or snowstorm, it come through the ceiling. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.200 It was bad in Camden. Ninety five percent of the 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.440 people is poor. Because of our population, it's only seventy 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.479 thousand people. We get overlooked. The only reason why we 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.120 get noticed is because the crime rate. Other than that, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.440 we don't have nothing. Your mom and them had to 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.960 have money though, like growing up. If not, you had 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.919 to go to the streets. It ain't excuse, but time 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.680 get hard, desperation and that's when I went to the streets. 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.279 By Manfred's perspective, dealing drugs and carrying a gun was 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:48.080 necessary for survival in Camden, all of which made him 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:52.919 vulnerable to prosecution as well as violence. Street violence and 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.160 one of the victims in this case, Adrian Jackson, Well, 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.799 he was in the same boat, although he wasn't exactly 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.160 Anfred's contemporary. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.839 Adrian Jackson is significantly older than Manfred, younger by a lot. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.600 Everyone believed that Adrian Jackson was the target. He has 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.760 issues with older people in the drug world and Camden, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.720 who Manfred had some type of affiliation with, But there 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.800 was never any real connection here. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.040 I ain't never hang with him and not like that. 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:24.520 All them god older than me. 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.720 Adrian Jackson had also cooperated in a case in the 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.000 late nineties, so there were motivated parties on the night 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.800 that he was shot, none of whom were Manfred, and 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.400 along with Jackson, an innocent young woman named Tiera Presley 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.320 had also been shot. It was a Saturday night, June 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.800 sixteenth into the early hours of June seventeenth, two thousand 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.359 and seven, when both victims were out on the town 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.640 with Tiera's cousin, Tia Hannah. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.400 They're at a place called Seventh and Caine and what 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:55.279 they would consider the downtown area of Camden, New Jersey, 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.520 at around two thirty in the morning is when they 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:58.479 leave out of the bar. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.920 Last call is two am. In New Jersey, so everyone 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.960 else was leaving with them, emptying out into this dirt 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.440 parking lot next to the bar that was adjacent to 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.359 the projects. Now it was a warm night where folks 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.000 were already hanging out in front of their buildings as. 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:17.320 Well, and Adrian Jackson is talking to Tierra and Tia, 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.040 I guess walked off a little bit with another woman 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.680 named Maisha Ronett Brown. It's not well lit, and two 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.440 men came out of nowhere and fired a lot of shots. 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.159 Presley was hit six seven times. Jackson was hit over 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.600 ten times. The way he shot it, it's very difficult 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.240 to determine whether he could have seen it because he's 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.640 like shot in the side and then he's like spun 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:41.480 around when. 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:42.320 He shot Tia. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.559 Hannah and a man named John Freelan ushered Tiara into 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.599 her car and drove it to the hospital curiously, though 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.320 without Adrian Jackson. 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.680 Yeah, Jackson stays at the scene and he's just standing 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.479 there and people are like freaked out. His adrenaline had 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.800 kicked in so much. And then at some point I 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.240 think he sits down and passes out or something, and 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:06.120 then he gets picked up an ambulance takes him to 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:07.120 the hospital. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.120 So by the time police had arrived, the crowd had dispersed, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:15.320 including Maisha Runnett Brown and her boyfriend Richard Barge, who 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.400 becomes important later, but for now, the police forego a 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.440 vigorous canvas for eyewitnesses and instead they hope to speak 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.880 with the victims as well as Tia Hannah. 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:31.960 Jackson lived amazingly. Tierra dies. Unfortunately, this was an innocent 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.360 girl that was killed. Everybody knew that this was a 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.480 very big deal. These are not people that didn't want 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:42.920 to cooperate. But Tia Hannah tells the Prosecutor's office investigator 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.080 Diane Wilson, over and over again, I can't make an 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.760 idea right and Jackson, I mean, it's only by the 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.520 grace of God that Dismand's alive. I mean, he's spun 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.040 around like a top. He was in the hospital for 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:58.320 over a month before he became coherent to speak. And 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.520 I mean, Adrian Jackson's a criminal. Okay, he has a 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.239 terrible background, but let me be clear with you. Adrian 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:08.440 Jackson cooperated before, so this is not a guy that's 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:13.040 apprehensive to talk to the police. And Adrian Jackson tells them, look, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.360 I was drunk when I came out, I don't know 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.800 who shot me, and he's like, you seem like you 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.160 don't believe me. If I knew who it was, I 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:20.840 would tell you. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.560 And so without any legitimate leads, the investigation kind of 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.640 switched course. It changed tactics right around the same time 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.319 that Manford was arrested for an unrelated matter on July fifteenth, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.600 two thousand and seven, possession of an illegal firearm. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.160 I'm from the city of Camden, so I got caught 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.360 with a weapon. That's the only way you know how 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.120 to protect yourself. I was in the corner store against 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.680 something to eat, and then the cops ran in there 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.400 because they were doing the search of like a drug area, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.920 and then they searched me, and I had a gun 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.880 on me. I didn't have it legally. So anytime say 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.400 a fahamicide happened or shooting happened, and you might get 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.360 locked up with drugs or whatever. Being as duff you 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:03.439 from that area where it happened, they would try to 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.080 question you and get you to act like you know something. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.160 You see you know what I'm saying. And Diane Wilson, 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.960 she comes in there, I don't know her she don't 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:16.679 know me, so being a dawn young she probably figured like, oh, well, 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.120 he might want to get out of this case. So 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.000 she started asking me about crime around the area and 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.839 not just this murder, several murders, and I'm like, man 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.079 I don't know nothing. So that was my first running 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.280 with her. So now that's where she was familiar with 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.400 the name baby j But I had bailed out from 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.440 that weapon Chuck. I came back home three days after 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.480 I was home. I had another case out in another county, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.199 Gloucester County. I had drugs that time, and I plared 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.600 guilty to probation in ninety days cent So I went 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.960 to Gloucester County for like seventy two days. Then I 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:51.240 came home September twenty four. 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:54.000 And while Manford was still in Gloucester County jail on 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.480 the drug charge, Diane Wilson interviewed Adrian Jackson again on 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.319 September sixth, two thousand and seven. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.400 They press him again, okay, and I believe they actually 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.040 dropped Manfred's name and nickname, which is baby j The 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:10.920 important part about that nickname is there's five other Baby 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.040 James in Camden. Jackson again tells them I don't know 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.720 who shot me, okay, And the date of that second 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.320 interview for Adrian Jackson is a very big deal. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.760 And we'll get to why in just a minute. But first, 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.560 around three weeks later, Manford was released from Gloucester County 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.920 and was picked up again three days after his release 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.600 on September twenty seventh, with his friend Jeffrey Jones. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.440 Well, we got pulled over by Camden County Police. But 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.040 we got to dispatch from the police station where that 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.080 Cox said, I'm behind that vam with baby j and 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.719 them in there. So obviously somebody had to tell him 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.760 about who was in a vam. You give you know 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.480 what I'm saying. He lied on a report and said 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.880 we was driving sad basically like it was a regular 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.240 traffic stop and I had a gun. And then I 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.200 was convicted ready for the drug. Once you get a conviction, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.440 the state tuned to turn it over to the Fed. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.240 That's when the Federal could charge you. It's called possession 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.199 of a whitness by previctor seventh and I got locked 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.079 back up September twenty seventh, three days I was home, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.000 so I had a poll attorney. The first thing he 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.800 said is they don't want you. They want your boy. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.120 Jones was my cole descendant. They believe that I know 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.280 all this stuff, like I don't know that guy like that. 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.160 So basically he was saying, like, yo, if you give 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.120 up information on him, they'll let you go. So I'm 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.439 just collateral damage. I took a flat rate play sixty 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.680 months for the gun charge. All this was in two 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.200 thousand and seven, and I've never seen the streets again. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.240 Five years in federal prison was able to eventually morph 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.720 into a much longer state sentence, starting with a man 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:48.720 named Troy Loan. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.080 Troy Loan got caught with a gun. He wanted the 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.320 way out of prison, so he told detective Wilson that 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.360 Adrian Jackson told him who did that to him? So 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.199 Roy Long wore a tape recorder on Jackson. On a 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.560 tape recorder, Jackson he ain't say he's seen nobody in 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.760 that he was speculating and they was talking about all 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.800 these other old murders and Jackson admitting to the drug game. 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.280 He's also on wire tap saying that he lied in 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.400 another murder trial and then placed itself at the scene 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.880 of a murder and he wasn't even there. So he's 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.160 already got a pattern of lion fabricating story, but. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.600 The prosecutor's officer doesn't care about that. And it's this 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.559 is what's so outrageous about this surreptitious audio recording. He's 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:38.000 going through in his mind who he thinks may or 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.040 may not have done this. So Jackson starts talking about 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.720 the fact that he has beef with these older gentlemen, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.959 and who is affiliated with these older gentlemen and now 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.959 understand this, he knows a nickname, which is Baby j. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:57.360 He admits he doesn't know Baby Jack and in this 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.160 conversation between him and Troy Loan, he said it couldn't 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.640 have been this guy named Sean, so it had to 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.720 be Baby J. And and he mentions that another guys 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.559 a driver. Understand is there were multiple people that watched 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.920 two shooters run from the scene and not get into 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.320 a car. They just ran from a scene, right, So 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.319 he's guessing and by the process of elimination, he says 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:21.559 it's probably Baby j. 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.640 As we know, Babyjy also happens to be Manfred's nickname, 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.280 but he's not the only Baby Jay in Camden. The 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:33.319 other nickname Jackson eventually mentioned was Papa Smurf aka Anthony Parker, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.839 who in turn became Manfred's co defendant. 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.880 Interestingly, with Jackson in the audio to Troy Loan, he 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:44.200 did not identify Papa Smurf initially Anthony Parker. And again 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.160 this goes to show you that this guy Jackson is 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:48.840 just guessing. 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.080 And Jackson's unreliability was also made clear by something else 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.480 that he said on this audio recording. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.000 Jackson specifically says that on September sixth of two thousand, 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.520 thousand and seven, when he came out of the prosecutor's 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.599 office after they're asking him about Manfreed Younger and he 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.840 doesn't know who this is, that he sees baby jack 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.680 driving and he wanted to kill him and doesn't do 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.520 it because it's broad daylight. So there's a huge problem 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:22.440 with that, which is that Manfred Younger is incarcerated at 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.120 that point, So whoever he saw could not have been 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.920 Baby J or at least a baby J that's Manfred Younger. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:31.440 It's impossible. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.280 This episode of Wrongful Conviction is proudly sponsored by Erase PTSD. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.520 Now every day, countless individuals face the invisible wounds of 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.400 trauma and PTSD your support empowers us to provide life 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.960 changing treatments like the Stelle Ganglon Block SGB, which inhibits 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.440 nerve impulses and helps to restore hope, reclaim lives, and 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.920 save lives after incurs Together, we can ensure that those 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.360 wrongfully convicted receive the care they need to heal and 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.800 reintegrate into society. Join us in this mission to erase 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:15.120 PTSD and uplift our communities. Visit erase PTSD now dot org. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.920 That's erase PTSD now dot org for more information and 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.000 ways to get involved. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.400 The name BABYJ came up. That's when Diane Wilson went 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.880 full throttle. She called Jackson and said, we got new information. 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.720 You know who did it to you? Jackson stated again, 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.960 I told you I don't know who it was. But 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.880 when she pushed play, he got scared for all the 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.160 criminating statements he made about being a big time drug 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.000 dealer having guns, and he gave the name BABYJ with 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:55.160 no hairstyle, no nothing, no race, no nothing. So she 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.920 went and got one picture of me and showed him. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.360 Diane Wilson shows him a photo on some this is 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:01.840 the guy right? He says, yes. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.680 They went to him with one photo, not a photo 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.000 or a one photo of me. 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.160 That is the evidence that gets Manfred Younger arrested. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.880 At this point, it's summer two thousand and eight. Manfred 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.280 was already in federal custody on the September twenty seventh 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.800 the gun charge, and he was brought in for his arraignment. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.600 I go in the courtroom to get my bill, Diane Wilson, 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:26.640 get Tia Hannah, and Tia Hannah own words. Diane Wilson 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.480 get her to point me out at her arrangement here. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:34.080 She's very adamant that she couldn't make an identification until 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.920 the arraignment. And I mean, come on, the guy's getting 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.520 arraigned for the murder of your cousin, and she's with 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.720 Diane Wilson, Tierra Presley's family, and then all of a sudden, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.360 out of nowhere, a year and a half later, you say, yay, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.760 he's the one. So Diane Wilson and the Camdens City 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.760 Police know that they have a really weak case, and 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.560 Devlin is supervising us, and we have a pattern here 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.560 of the then go to the jail house informance, which 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.640 is Jamie Channer and Jamal Gibbs. 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.800 When you go to freederal prison. If you're from Jersey, 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.400 you rolle with Jersey people. If you Muslim, you run 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.920 with the Muslims. If whatever click you run with, that's 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.760 your crew. So amongst your crew, you got people who's 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.000 productive for the people of your crew. And you need 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.520 help with your case, you go to the Muslim power 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:21.840 leaguer Canner he was our paralleger. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.800 Jamie Channer was a jail house lawyer that helped manfreed 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.200 with the allevi It's the extradition process for gun charge 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.120 that is totally unrelated. So he sees the probable cause statement, 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.560 the criminal complaint come through, so he knows the name 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.159 of the deceased, and the guy who gets shot doesn't 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:40.199 know anything other than that. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.360 He writes Camden County Prosecutor Office and bargain with them 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.760 and say, I know information by the murder, but I 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.600 want three years off. He didn't give the information an 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:54.320 initial letter. You see what I'm saying. So Diane Wilson 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:55.400 calls him. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.160 Jamie Channer says, hey, this guy admitted to this murder 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.840 over and over and over against He's writing letters to 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:07.160 Diane Wilson, and the information was basically wrong and develops overtime. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.280 She spoke to that guy five times. If I tell 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.720 you I have a red Mustang today, five years later, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.920 I should tell you I have a red Mustang. And 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.359 every time he talked to her, he'd come back with 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:19.639 additional information. 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:24.280 Even after five conversations, he still got the details wrong. 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.080 In the statement that developed, Channer said that Jackson shielded 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.480 himself behind Presley, which is contradicted by witnesses and the forensics. 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.080 Then he gets the motive wrong as well. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.200 Channer said it was a gang initiated motive, a blood initiates. 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.760 Diane Wilson stipulated that she know I wasn't blood and 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.920 that wasn't even a motive, but she still allowed him 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:47.400 to say that in front of a jority. 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.040 Then in comes Jamal Gibbs. 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.560 In October of two thousand and nine. They go get 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:57.400 Jamal Gibbs, who's a serial cooperator. Now Jamal Gibbs's handler 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.800 is Jim Pizzano, but Jamal Gibbs is very close friends 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.280 with Martin Devlin. I have information from another case that 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.920 Gibbs actually refers to Martin Devlin as Sarge doing an interview. 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.199 The cops know exactly who he's talking about Devlin was 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:18.639 supervising Manfred Younger's investigation, and Jamal Gibbs is an admitted killer. 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.760 By this point, he's pled guilty. He's looking to get 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.120 out of jail and says, presumably at the behest of Devlin, 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.480 that baby Jay admitted the homicide to. 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.359 Me when I was in the county, I was gonna 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.359 protective cuss to be status. So it's no way we 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.120 can interact, no way. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.640 The interesting thing about that is by this point Gibbs 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.760 is cooperating against like ten people, So everybody in the 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.480 Camden County jail knows that Jamal Gibbs us a cooperator. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.680 He was jumping in people cases like anytime your case 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.840 is weak, Jamal Gibbs ended up inside the case to 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.159 coroborate the motive or theory to strengthen the case. Like 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.639 the whole jail knew, stay away from that guy because 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.840 he a lie and fabrication information to get out his 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:02.879 own murder. 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.879 Why would Manfred Younger tell him he committed a murder. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.760 Never mind that he didn't even have an opportunity to 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.360 do so. Thankfully, other guys came forward to Manfred's attorney 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:16.000 took discredit Gibbs, which became part of trial strategy when 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.720 Manfred and his co defendant Anthony Parker were tried in 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.440 March twenty eleven, where the state had about five main witnesses, 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.040 including Tia Hannah, who had previously id'd Manfred at his arrangement. 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.320 She recance the idea trial. 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:31.399 A prosecutor to try to get her to say with me. 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.160 Tia said, I don't know. I didn't see the guy's face, 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.080 but she's seen the description of brownskin guy with sure hair. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.840 So the prosecutor say, point to the brownskin guy. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:43.800 Point to the brownskin guy. 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.399 My lawyer. He object. Even the judge said that that 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.760 was wrong. It was petering over the line. 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.919 And then she gives an affidavit recanting the ID and 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.720 saying this is my cousin. They basically coerced me into 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:57.520 making any identification in this case. 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.240 John Frehlan also testified about trying Tierra Presley to the 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.480 hospital and how Tia Hannah had said even then that 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.320 she couldn't identify the shooter. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:10.200 Hannah's essentially eliminated, but again the jury sees her point 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:11.400 Manfred out in the courtroom. 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.360 The state also presented Troy Loan, who spoke about recording 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:20.520 Jackson's speculation about his shooters naming Baby J. Then Adrian 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.080 Jackson id'd Manfred as Baby J from the stand. 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.800 What the jury never hears is that on September sixth 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.680 of two thousand and seven, when Adrian Jackson says he's 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.520 leaving the prosecutor's office and says that he sees manfre 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.960 Younger and wanted to kill him, that could not have 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.040 been man for Younger because Manfred Younger was incarcerated. It's 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:45.480 my belief that the attorney did not present that information 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.000 because he did not want to admit that his client 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.280 had a criminal record in front of the jury. But 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.680 that's a huge piece of evidence that Adrian Jackson did 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:56.480 not know who Manfred Younger was and his identification is 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:57.520 wholly unreliable. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:02.040 Then Adrian Jackson idd Anthony Parker as Papa Smurf. But 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.280 the attorneys did cross examine Jackson about not being able 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.920 to identify his assailants for his first three interviews. 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:12.119 The evidence against Anthony Parker was strictly Adrian Jackson, and 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.440 that's it. And look at who got acquitted and who 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:20.200 got convicted. It's my belief that's why the jailhouse informants 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.240