1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wellness. I'm mass I'm doctor Nicole Sapphire. Today 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: we are going to tackle a headline that's making waves 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: across the health and tech spaces, RFK Junior's bold announcement 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: that every American should be wearing a health tracker within 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: the next four years. Boy did my x feed light 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: up with this. Some people loved it, some people hated it. 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: Will this usher in a new era of preventative health 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: and accountability or does it raise serious questions about privacy, 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: data and individual freedom and do they even work? 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 2: Stay tuned. 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: We are going to break down the benefits, the concerns, 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: and what this means for you. So for this conversation, 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: because it dives into the tech realm, Everyone who knows 14 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: me knows that I am probably the least tech savvy 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: person that there ever was. However, despite the fact that 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: I'm a radiologist and I'm constantly using tech in AI 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: and on a computer, for this conversation, I'm bringing in 18 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: my husband, doctor Paul Sapphire, and a vascular nurse surgeon 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: who is incredibly tech savvy and has some very interesting 20 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: opinions and perspectives. 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: On these wearable trackers. Paul, thanks for joining. 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that glowing introduction. 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: You know, here's the thing. 24 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: A lot of our friends, colleagues, patients all wear these devices. 25 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about Apple watches, the fitbits, even 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 1: those Aura rings. You see some people wearing the rings 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: that monitors them and it gives information back to their 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: smart device. 29 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: You know, what's your. 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: Big overall opinion on these digital health trackers. 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 4: Well, first off, I think the concept of having accurate 32 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 4: and reliable information that you can then utilize to change 33 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 4: your habits, whether to exercise more sleep, you modify your 34 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 4: sleep regromens that get better sleep en half and so 35 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 4: and so forth, you know, changing the way you may 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 4: have your diet to lower your glycemic index sugars in 37 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 4: your body. I understand that, and I applause that. I 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: think that conceptually, that's a great idea. The question, of course, 39 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 4: is how accurate and reliable and usable is that information? 40 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 4: How where are we garnering that information, how are we 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 4: driving that information? 42 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: And then how do you use it? 43 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: Well, So, one of the things my concern is, let 44 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: me go back up for a second. In about twenty 45 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: twenty three, about forty five percent of Americans owned some 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: sort of fitness or smart watch, making them really a 47 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: mainstream gadget. But when you look at the data on 48 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: these In a twenty twenty two meta analysis, a really 49 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: big study I think it had about seventy five hundred 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: participants published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, they 51 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: found activity trackers did boost activity by roughly eighteen hundred 52 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: steps per day and this led to modest weight loss. 53 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: So that would be a good thing, right If people 54 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: are actively monitoring their movements and they're seeing maybe they 55 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: were below you know, their goal for the day, for 56 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: the week, for even the month, if that gave them 57 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: an incentive, how could that not be a good thing. 58 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 3: Well, I think you're looking at a very self selecting population, right. 59 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 4: The people that are purchasing and utilizing these personal trackers 60 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 4: have an objective in mind. Either they're not feeling great 61 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 4: and they want to modify what they're doing in their 62 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 4: lives to feel better. Maybe they are over weight and 63 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 4: they're trying to lose weight, or maybe they're incredibly health 64 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 4: conscious to begin with and they're already you know, some 65 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 4: type of you know, either recreational or amateur performance athlete, 66 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 4: and they want to enhance their performance, So I think 67 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 4: that you're you know, there is a very self selecting 68 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 4: population at play there. In my opinion, again, the biggest 69 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 4: thing that I always wonder about is how accurate and 70 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 4: reliable is the information that we're guarding, And certainly we. 71 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: See that not only in. 72 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 4: Recreational advices such as these trackers, but also in every 73 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 4: aspect in healthcare that you and I use every day. 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: How accurate and reliable. 75 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 4: Is safe For instance, like a twelve le DKG so 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 4: that we use to to check the. 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 3: Heart rate in somebody. You know, there's different levels of. 78 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 4: Invasiveness that enhance how accurate something is in terms of 79 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 4: the data that's called from it. You know, when I 80 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 4: think about what I do for a living, you can 81 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 4: do what's called a spot EEG. You essentially tape little 82 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 4: electroludes onto somebody's scalp and you get to see how 83 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 4: accurate or you get to see how how their brain 84 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: waves are functioning to look for seizure activity. But then 85 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 4: there's even further enhanced levels of interrogation. You can do 86 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 4: what's called stereotactic depth electro monitoring. Well you actually in 87 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 4: certain little probes deep into the portions of the brain 88 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 4: and much of that. 89 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 3: Obviously, all these different levels of invasements, at risks and 90 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: complications and also benefit. So you have to you have 91 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: to weigh that. I guess where I'm going that is, 92 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: how accurate is the information that we're deriving from these 93 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 3: trackers and what are you doing about that information? 94 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: Well, we know it's interesting you brought up EKG different 95 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: from the EEG Looking for Seizure monitor, but the EKG 96 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: Apple came out with their own Apple Heart Study. So 97 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that have proved beneficial of these 98 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: health trackers is potentially increasing movement, which you pointed out 99 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: one of the limitations It is a self selected population 100 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: who are already getting these who are probably wanting to 101 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: boost their activity. But the Apple Heart study, which had 102 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: over about four hundred thousand participants, showed that the monitor 103 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: was able to detect atrial fibrillation in zero point five 104 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: percent of users unknowingly, meaning the users had no idea 105 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: that they had this heart arrhythmia, which obviously you know 106 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: being a stroke specialist, that atrial fibrillation causes an increased 107 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: risk of stroke. So this allowed these patients to have 108 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: early medical intervention. So on one hand, I mean if 109 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: it is able to detect irregular heart rhythms and potentially 110 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: alert use you can alert your clinician that might be 111 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: a good thing, be saving lives from all the arrhythmias, 112 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: not just atrial fibrillation, but other ones that may be 113 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: leading to a heart attack. 114 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 4: Hey listen, I think having more data and applying that 115 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 4: data either for monitoring the screening purposes is incredibly useful. 116 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 4: Certainly as a clinician myself, the more data that I 117 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 4: have that I can offer my patients to help guide 118 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 4: their treatment, their care, so on and so forth, certainly 119 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 4: is invaluable. 120 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 3: And I think that's really quite interesting. 121 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 4: You know, can we use these trackers to pick up, 122 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: to your point, a cardiac dis rhythmia, an irregular heartbeat 123 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 4: before it actually becomes a problem, and put them on 124 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 4: some type of therapy that decreases the risk of stroke 125 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 4: and so and so forth. 126 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 3: Again, a fundamental question. 127 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: That I have, and I'm not certainly arbitrating at the 128 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: judgment here, but fundamental question that I have is how 129 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 4: accurate is the data? And what are you doing? How 130 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 4: often are you changing what you do? 131 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, you bring up very valid concerns there. 132 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: Before we get into what happens with the data, because 133 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: I definitely want to pick your brain on that. I 134 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: just want to also highlight a couple of other things 135 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: that they're saying could be beneficial for having these trackers. 136 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: One is monitoring real time blood glue close. I think 137 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: RFK Junior is saying if someone is able to see 138 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: that after I don't know, a big meal of hamburger 139 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: and fries, they see their blood sugar shoot up, they 140 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: may then be able to take that information and perhaps 141 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: at the next meal they're not eating such a carbohydrate 142 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: heavy meal. I think he's trying to give the power 143 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: back to the people in that sense that by educating 144 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: them on what their actions are doing to their body, 145 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: perhaps people will take that information. 146 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: The skeptic in me, though, however. 147 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: Is essentially that a tracker shines a spotlight on the habits. 148 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: While it can motivate and educate, especially when combined with 149 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: a game plan, a gadget is not going to ensure 150 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: long term health. That's really going to be your habits. 151 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: And I think, yes, it's a good good that this 152 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: tracker is going to give you information saying, oh, look 153 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: at your blood sugar went up after you ate this meal. 154 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I'm pretty confident 155 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: that most Americans know if they go out and eat 156 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: a carbo heavy meal, that's probably not nearly as good 157 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: for them as if they're eating the fruits and vegetables. 158 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: And it's really more about access to healthier foods than educating. 159 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 3: All right, that's where I was initially going. What I mentioned, 160 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 3: what are you doing with that data? 161 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 4: So if you track your to your point, your glycimic index, 162 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, I have a thirty percent increase in 163 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 4: my blood gluecose level. I'm just making something about, well, 164 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 4: these these trackers don't measure your blood glucose level, but 165 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 4: let's just say your blue close level in your body, 166 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 4: your third percent increase after a certain meal. If to 167 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,359 Speaker 4: your point, you're not changing the way that you eat, 168 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 4: or you change the types. 169 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 3: Of food that you're consuming, you're not really doing. 170 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 4: Anything about data rights on an individual level. 171 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 3: That's that's what I think about. 172 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 4: You know, if you can derive at zero point five 173 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: percent of the people that are you know, purchasing these 174 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 4: these trackers for just you know, casual use, you're finding 175 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 4: you know that zero point five percent of that are 176 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 4: going to have acial fibrillation, which they didn't know, and 177 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 4: then you can institute a therapy for that person or 178 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 4: some type of medication to reduce the risk of stroke. 179 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 4: That's huge, It's potentially enormous, right, So that's why that's 180 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 4: where I'm going when I say, what are you doing 181 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 4: with that data? 182 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but just like every other shiny new toy. I mean, 183 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: we have three kids, we know this. You get some fancy, 184 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: shiny new toy and the novelty wears off over time. 185 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: And Jamma actually published a study, granted it was almost 186 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: a decade ago, but it was looking at these fitness 187 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: trackers when they were kind of first coming onto the market, 188 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: and they said, you know, it's really short lived benefits 189 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: of these trackers because without persistent coaching, activity trackers really 190 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: didn't drive long term weight loss, which is one of 191 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: the primary reasons a lot of people got these were 192 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: to increase their activity levels. But the reality is, you know, 193 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: clinically speaking, there may not be a significant health impact, 194 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: meaning simply strapping on a gadget doesn't necessarily guarantee that 195 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: you're going to. 196 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: Have better blood pressure or lower cholesterol. 197 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: And lastly, one of the things that I'm most concerned 198 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: about because we have a friend who I'm not naming 199 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: names here, but you're going to know who I'm talking about. 200 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: They have what's called essentially orthosomnia, which is they are 201 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: obsessed with the metrics that their fitness tracker produces, and 202 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: if they're not meeting it like it actually causes. It's 203 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: a level of mental illness because they have this increased 204 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: anxiety or guilt, this overall obsession with achieving these ideometrics. 205 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: And we already have a mental illness crisis in the country. 206 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: The last thing we need is to obsess over another thing. 207 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 4: Well, certainly we see people obsessing over any type of 208 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 4: technology that is intimately associated with them. 209 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 3: Obviously the phones and the smart watches come to mind. 210 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 4: But I think that you know what you mentioned from 211 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 4: my perspective, for any type of technology, certainly so that 212 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 4: I use in my professional realm as well as personal 213 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 4: ease of use, accessibility. 214 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 3: And then reliability. 215 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 4: Slash efficacy of those of those devices are paramount to 216 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 4: compliance with us. Right, So ease of use you got 217 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 4: to make it. That's why Apple in general did such 218 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 4: a great job with all their computers. Right they were like, hey, 219 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 4: we're the user friendly computers, and they assume they were 220 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: so ease of use is very you know, think of 221 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 4: me as as as a country simple individual. I'm just 222 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 4: you know, I'm not so so intelligent. Let me figure 223 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 4: how to use this thing very easily. Accessibility, make sure 224 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 4: that I can get into my hands, make it affordable, 225 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 4: make it ubiquitous all throughout, and then reliably and efficacy, 226 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 4: make sure that what I'm using it for is going 227 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 4: to work. 228 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: Right. So, I think those are. 229 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 4: Fundamentally how these things will actually ultimately serve a benefit. 230 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: Well, truthfully, I believe, and this is the reason I 231 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: don't wear a health tracker. Is a gadget, is a tool. 232 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: It's not a solution. It's not going to give you 233 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: the motivation that you actually need to transform your lifestyle 234 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: for long term health gains. So I will raising my 235 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: hand right now. I have never worn a health tracker, 236 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: although I am very much into health and wellness, and 237 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: I applaud RFK Junior with his goal that he thinks 238 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: every American should be wearing one within four years. 239 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 2: I likely will not. 240 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: Be one of those Americans, but I will continue to 241 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: talk about any data that shows that why maybe we 242 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: should or why we shouldn't. But here's a question, Paul, 243 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: and this is what I saw a lot on social 244 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: media was as soon as this, As soon as RFK 245 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: Junior made this announcement, people were like, whoa big government 246 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: coming to really oversee us. I mean, we're not just 247 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: talking about, I know, raising taxes. We're talking about they 248 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: want to know intimate details about our body. 249 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean I think that raises a huge 250 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 4: level of concern for myself. You know, these these trackers, 251 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 4: let's just say it's tracking your your step camp. 252 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: Right, let's say. 253 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 2: That you is it tracking your location too? Do they 254 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: always know where you are? 255 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 4: But even before we get to that, first of all, 256 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 4: who is using that data? 257 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: Who owns that data and who and how are they 258 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 3: using it? 259 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 4: So now you know, we're kind of segueing from using 260 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 4: that data to improve your own exercise routine or regimen. 261 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 4: So now who's using that data for data mining purposes? 262 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 4: Are we right? 263 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 3: So? 264 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 4: You you have device, you have a you have a 265 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 4: first year you have a hardware device, you have the 266 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 4: software capability, you have who's storing that data? Where's that 267 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 4: that had being transmitted? There's a lot of fingers that 268 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 4: are touching that data. And the question ultimately is who 269 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 4: owns that data and what can they use it for. 270 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 4: So let's say the Let's say you're an individual, you're 271 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: documented it's being twenty percent overweight, and you had a 272 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 4: certain number of steps per year in twenty twenty four, right, 273 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 4: and now your health insurance company sees that your primary 274 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 4: care positions is recommending increased exercise. Let's say that in 275 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 4: twenty twenty five the number of steps you've taken actually 276 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 4: goes down by five percent. Are they no honer going 277 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 4: to pay for some of the healthcare that you required 278 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 4: because you weren't meeting the goals that your primary care 279 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: position outlined for you, and so you're considered a non 280 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 4: compliant individual. 281 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 3: I know it sounds a little a little far fetched, 282 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: but ultimately. 283 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: Well I don't think it sounds far so far fetched 284 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: because if you. 285 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: Think about what is going on when you talk about 286 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: Medicaid recipients, you know, the people who can't afford healthcare. 287 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: So it's the state and federal government funded healthcare Medicaid. 288 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: They're wanting to put on work requirements saying if you 289 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: are an able bodied individual, then you to get Medicaid 290 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: and some of the other services you need to be 291 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: working as well. Are they now tracking these individuals? 292 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 4: Sure, say you're on say you have insulin dependent diabetes 293 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 4: and you're using one of these one of these glucose 294 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 4: continues glucose monitors right with the auto insulin delivery system, 295 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 4: and let's say that for three month time period they 296 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 4: saw a significant surge in your glycemic index. Are they 297 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 4: going to now assume that you're eating habits are contrary 298 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 4: to what would be advisable for someone with incident deependent diabetes, 299 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: and now they're going to start cutting back how much 300 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 4: they're going to cover your cost for expensive medication. I mean, 301 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 4: I get that I could see a world in which 302 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 4: some these so these health carriers I should potentially do that. 303 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: More coming up on Wellness Unmasked with doctor Nicole Sapphire. 304 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: So data privacy is an issue what they do with that. 305 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: While in theory it sounds good and maybe in some 306 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: very small pockets you can understand why there may be 307 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: some benefit, the concern is who owns the data, what 308 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: do they do with the data? Do all of a 309 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: sudden you're going to start seeing if you're a fitness 310 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: tracker or whatever shows that you go to certain locations, 311 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: or you're going to start seeing ads because now they 312 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: know your location or where you've been. You know what 313 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: about the RKE Junior mentioned that he wanted people to 314 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: be wearing these wearable trackers because he wanted to decrease 315 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: the expense of some of the medications, like the GLP 316 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: ones that people. 317 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: Are taking because they're overweight. 318 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: So he's thinking, if people are aware of their steps, 319 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: maybe they're going to lose weight, and therefore maybe it'll 320 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: decrease the costs on the GLP ones. I personally think 321 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: this is a massive stretch. I don't think that wearing 322 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: these health trackers are really going to provide the motivation 323 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: that people need. I think that there are other ways 324 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: to incentivize people that I laid out in my book 325 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: from twenty twenty. 326 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 2: Make America Healthy Again. 327 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: But another thing that I saw online people very concerned 328 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: about data privacy, data mining. They certainly don't want the 329 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: government monitoring their every move, how they sleep, or they go, 330 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: how they eat, what they do. But also a potential 331 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: conflict of interest between the Secretary of Health and Human 332 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: Services RFK Junior, his senior advisor Calli Means, and his sister. 333 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: Who is the Surgeon General nominatee Casey means, who owns 334 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: a company that actually sells these devices? 335 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that? 336 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 3: Right? 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 5: Well, I think there is a stretch of saying that 338 00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 5: by having everybody having a tracker, increasing steps and improving 339 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 5: nutritional regiments is going to decrease the cost. 340 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: Of GLP want. I think that's the stretch. 341 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 4: I think it will definitely increase the sales of personal trackers, 342 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: and that's for sure. 343 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 3: And when you have someone that is sitting as the CMO, the. 344 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 4: Chief medical officer for a company that's valuated at three 345 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 4: hundred million dollars such as Levels, and they are advocating 346 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 4: for a non FDA approved app to monitor. 347 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 3: Glue coaster in every person in the United States, for instance. 348 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, there seems to be a little bit of a 349 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 4: conflict of interest there. 350 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 351 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: The doctor case means, again, who's the Surgeon general nominee 352 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: that RFK Junior you really wanted since day one? He 353 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: was from sources tell me he was very dissatisfied with 354 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: the initial nominee, who doctor Jeanette Neschwatt whose nomination was pulled. 355 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: Doctor Casey means the current nominee. She's the co founder 356 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: of Level's Health, which which is a company that develops 357 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: apps to integrate continuous glucose monitor data and other. 358 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: Wearable device metrics. 359 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: So as a founder and stakeholder in a company that's 360 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 1: reliable on these wearable devices, she certainly has financial interest 361 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: in promoting their use. So this role obviously creates a 362 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: potential conflict of interests when making recommendations about wearable devices. 363 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: And that is the role of Surgeon General is to 364 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: put forth recommendations for the health of our nation. So 365 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: it's really important for audiences and patients to be aware 366 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: of this potential financial conflict when assessing her recommendations and 367 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: just overall commentary on wearables. 368 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 4: One hundred percent, I mean, I believe that Levels raised 369 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 4: one hundred million dollars last year alone investors. So if 370 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 4: all of a sudden their sales skyrocket, which they already have, 371 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 4: or they continue to skyrocket because there's a quote RFK, 372 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 4: there will be a marketing blitz. Craig to the United 373 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 4: stays in order to disseminate any type of work, we 374 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 4: arable for every type of work, I should say to 375 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 4: everybody in the United States, well sales will absolutely shoot up, 376 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 4: and the valuation the company will in turn rise. 377 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't love that he did come out 378 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: and say there's going to be a massive one like 379 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: you've never seen before. It sounded very Trump esque that 380 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: they're going to do a massive campaign to get people 381 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: to wear these wearables, and they're going to be that 382 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: campaign will be funded by tax dollars. So our tax 383 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: dollars are going to fund this campaign, which is ultimately 384 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: going to financially benefit the private sector, of which the 385 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: Surgeon General nominee has a big stake in. I don't 386 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: know that raises some massive red legs to me. 387 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I think there's certain things that are inarguable 388 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 4: about what he says. 389 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 3: Do we have an obsc problem in the United States? Yes? 390 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 4: Should we have a national agenda to improve physical mental 391 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 4: health as well as nutritional health? Yes? 392 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 3: Inarguably. 393 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 4: I think those those types of statements I one hundred 394 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 4: percent support, And I think that ultimately, if people wish 395 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 4: to take control of their health, they should focus in 396 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 4: on modifying their behaviors. 397 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 3: Not just you slapping a risk monitor or ring on you. 398 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 4: I mean those if they ultimately are proven to have 399 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 4: a significant and reliable on effective measure and change how 400 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 4: people's health is delivered. 401 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, then maybe that can be a. 402 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 4: Useful tool, but there is no substitute for If you 403 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 4: have a nutritional issue, seeing a nutrition is working with 404 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 4: your physician, working on your own terms to modify your behavior. 405 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 4: If physical activity is an issue as well, you have 406 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 4: limitations you know, finding some type. 407 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: Of regimen that's going to work with you, you know, 408 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: physical therapy, physiatry, so on and so forth. 409 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: Right, Well, a tracker can track, but it can't transform, 410 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: and real health will come from habits, support and making 411 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: that data work for you if you are someone who 412 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: wants to wear these trackers. 413 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: Paul, thanks so much for joining us on Wellness on Mass. 414 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 3: Thank you so uch for having me. 415 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode of Wellness Unmass. The idea 416 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: of a health tracker on every American's risk is both 417 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: intriguing and controversial, and it forces us to ask ourselves 418 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: how far we're willing to go for better health and 419 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: where we draw the line for privacy and personal choice. 420 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me. I'm doctor Nicole Sapphire and thanks 421 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: for listening to Wellness Unmass on America's number one podcast 422 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: network iHeart follow wellness on Mass with doctor Nicole Shire 423 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app or wherever 424 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and we will catch you next time.