1 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast. 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham, and today my guest is a longtime 3 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: sportsman and a sportsman advocate and outdoor writer, lifelong hunter 4 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: and if anyone wants to know anything about elk hunting, 5 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: I feel this is the guy. Do you want to 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: get inside his brain and pick it a little bit? 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I have George Betis here today. 8 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: Welcome George. 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: Thank you Derek. It's great to be with you, guys. 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: I've been following George for several years on social media 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot of stuff he's written over 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: the years, and I've always thought he was a pretty 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: neat and fascinating guy, and I thought, you know who 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: better to get on the podcast and kind of talk 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: about the good old days of elk hunting in Idaho 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,279 Speaker 1: and in particular Idaho's Clearwater region. It's kind of a 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: magical place, and I think it's probably arguably one of 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: the most beautiful places to hunt elk there is as 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: far as picturesque quality, and at one time it was 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: a really neat place to go elk hunting just because 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: of the whole experience. But I thought I'd bring George 22 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: on and kind of talk about those good old days 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: and what they look like back then it may be 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: contrast to what it looks like today hunting there. And 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: if any of our listeners, if you guys don't know, 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with George, I'm going to take a 27 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: minute and let George talk about himself. And it's it's 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: sometimes hard to brag on himself, but if you were 29 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: to look at his Facebook profile, it's pretty pretty impressive. 30 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: He served in a lot of different important roles advocating 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: for sportsmen, among other things, through his lifetime of being 32 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: a hunter and a sportsman. So, George, could you give 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: us a little bit of your background. 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: I'll give you the executive summary. If you want to 35 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: know more, yeah, go to Google or Facebook. But well, 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: I grew up on a small farm in central Washington. 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: We never had elk there. I remember seeing the very 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: first elk way back when I was in probably a 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: sophomore in college in about nineteen fifty nineteen sixty two. 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: It was a big bowl lying up in the timber. 41 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: But we just didn't have elk there. We had a 42 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: lot of mule deer, and so you know, elk was 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 2: a really kind of interesting thing to see on the farm. Well, anyway, 44 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: after high school, I went on to Washington State University graduated. 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: I was in the last required class of ROTC, the 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: Return Reserve Officers Training program. And of course after you 47 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: finished school, you've got you have to go in the army. 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: So I served in the Army in the late sixties 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: and in their Interference Artillery program or actually branch, and 50 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: after that eventually returned to Pullman, Washington, where I started 51 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 2: work on my doctorate degree in higher education, and I 52 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: was there until I retired in two thousand and two. 53 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 2: I served in the whole series of positions Director of 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 2: Housing and Diana Students, and ultimately the vice president of 55 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: student Affairs. But anyway, my interest in conservation goes back 56 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: to my just growing up on the farm. I was 57 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: always interested in birds and you know, and identifying birds 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: and in animals, and I you know, we had deer 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: and elk deer on the farm and we could see 60 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: out down in other areas, and so I was always 61 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: interested in wildlife. And then after I used to say 62 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: I spent my whole life either in school or in 63 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: the army, and it was true until after I got 64 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: back from back to WSU to work on my doctorate. 65 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: I started really thinking about hunting and other things I 66 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: could do. In nineteen eighty four, the Elk Foundation had 67 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 2: their very first convention in Spokane, and I had an 68 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: interesting I was hunting elk in Montana at the time, 69 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: up around Superior, and it was a bugle magazine and 70 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: I saw it and the guy. I said, the guy says, 71 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: where'd you get this? He says, that's the last one. 72 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: I said, well, you have me more. He said no, 73 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: he said, you can have that one for twenty bucks. 74 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: That's what I about it. Anyway, So I got involved 75 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: with the Elk Foundation just as a member, then as 76 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: a as a life member and habitat partner, and ultimately 77 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: was on the board. It was elected to the board, 78 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: served as a board chair during some tumultuous times kind 79 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: of in the with the Elk Foundation, changing CEOs and stuff. Anyway, 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: But parallel to that, uh, I got a call one 81 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 2: day from Emmitt Burrows in California and he asked me. 82 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: He says, hey, here, you like to hunt mule there? 83 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: Would you? I'm putting putting together a new Found mule 84 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: Deer Foundation. I said, really, he said, would you help 85 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: us organize it and develop the you know, the documents. 86 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: He said, I've got of six other guys coming to Redding, 87 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: And so I went down there and I was one 88 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: of the founders of the Mulder Foundation and then ultimately 89 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: served as president. But at the same time, uh in 90 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: eighty nine, I was invited to become a regular member 91 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: of the Boone and Crockett Club, and I couldn't do both, 92 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: so I passed the gabble with the with the Mule 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: Deer Foundation on and and of course at the Universe 94 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: you had a job in doing. I spent time working, 95 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: you know, with Boone and Crockett. I've been in a 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 2: Boone Crockett member for thirty four years, served in i guess, 97 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 2: all levels of responsibility except president, and that's been a 98 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: great ride. And that connected to me a lot of 99 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: different opportunities for you know, conservation work the Elk Foundation. 100 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: When I was on the board, you know, the lands program, 101 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: I was really involved with that. I was involved with 102 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: all aspects of it, and I learned all about you know, 103 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: I was involved in a lot of those major major 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: Elk Foundation land programs as a as a board member 105 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: and as an individual. And then after I left Boone 106 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: and Crockett, actually I left the university. I retired at 107 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: university in two thousand and one and was hired as 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: a as the executive director of the Boone and Crockett Club. 109 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: Moved to Missoula. I've been here last twenty years and 110 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: that gave me other opportunities to reach out and and 111 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: work with conservation organizations, help foundation on their land projects. 112 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: Was was was one of them. After I retired from 113 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: puding Crockett, I was hired by the Montana Fish, Wallefe 114 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: and Parks Foundation and was there an executive director and 115 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: manager of a trust they manage and that in that 116 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: in that role, we were able to fund millions of 117 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: dollars of different public access in the churches program. So 118 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: my flunk retirement four times, and you know, so that 119 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: pretty much got and all along. When I was at 120 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: the university, I basically had time to go hunting deer 121 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: for like a week and elk for a week. And 122 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: so then that's when I discovered the clear water. And 123 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: that's I can tell that story. 124 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's great. That's quite a quite an impressive 125 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: list of roles of of that that would consume a 126 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: lot of time and responsibility, definitely, especially working full time 127 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: when you're at w s U and you were soon 128 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: serving those other roles. That's that's an incredible that's an 129 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: incredible achievement really that I don't think a lot of 130 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people can can do that. I know, 131 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: I don't think I would be able to be capable 132 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: of having that much heaped on my plate on it 133 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. So that's that's cool. 134 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: A lot of the roles I had at w SU, 135 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: you know, involve students and student behavior in the residence 136 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: halls and fra garnities and sororities. And you know, I 137 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: was on call twenty four to seven, and so I could, 138 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: you know, typically an elk hunt in Idaho, after I've 139 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 2: we figured out, you know that where to go into 140 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: clear Water, I have a staff meeting Monday morning and 141 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: meet my buddy in Lewiston with the horses and way 142 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: we'd go and I'd come back Sunday and be right 143 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: back at it. Two weeks later the there's season opened 144 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: and I'd be a week for deer. That was it 145 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 2: until maybe Thanksgiving and then but yeah, but you know 146 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: I always tell young people to just follow their passion. 147 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: You know, I don't fish. I hunt. Yeah, And I figured, 148 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: if you're going to do something, well, you got to 149 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: keep your eye on the football. And for me, it 150 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 2: was hunting. It was deer hunting and elk hunting. Of course, 151 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: the brown bears in Alaska, YadA, YadA, and all those 152 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: other things I've done, But it was all about hunting. 153 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: Learning your rifles and studying the ballistics and learning to reload, 154 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: you know, all of that. And so anyway, that's kind 155 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 2: of an executive summary. 156 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love it. So when did you get 157 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: first get into hunting with horses in the back country? 158 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: Well, and the clear waters? What got me into the doors? 159 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: Okay, I what year was. 160 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 2: That I went in there? The first backpacked in for 161 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: elk in nineteen seventy six. Wow. But I started going 162 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: up into the Cellway bear hunting in the spring, and 163 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: you know, the guys up in those days, they drove up, 164 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: the drove up the highway and the cell you know, 165 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: up to towards the Montana line, and you could you 166 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: could see bears any morning, anytime, right from the road. 167 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of adventures. I didn't like the River. 168 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: I didn't want to have to go across the river 169 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: to get a bear. So I heard about the clear Water, 170 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: went up to clear clear Water and up to Kelly 171 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: Creek and killed a giant bear the first year. And 172 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: that was in about seventy seventy four maybe. But when 173 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: I was up there in the spring, we'd see and 174 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: we'd backpack in near Bearning. We see all these help 175 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: I mean, hundreds of elk everywhere we went, just big, 176 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: I mean elk We're everywhere. I mean I can tell 177 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: you every place I went, they were just elk everywhere. 178 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: And so I started looking at that, and I there 179 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: was a guy named of Dell Robie. He used to 180 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: do outdoor films and yeah, and I remember going to 181 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: one down in Lewiston at the Lewis Clark Sports Club 182 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: and they had one of these PVC bugles and they 183 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: called in a big six point and it was up 184 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: in Max Walker's guide area and Kelly and they'l come 185 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: walking in. A guy shout and I said, WHOA, that's interesting. 186 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: They were seeing that before. Well anyway, so I started 187 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: focusing on the Clare later and so my my buddy 188 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: and I we backpacked way back into the middle of 189 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 2: Paradise Meadows and you know, bear hunting, and he had 190 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 2: we had to hike over the snow and all that 191 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 2: to get in there. But Dirk, it was it was 192 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: one of the most memorable experiences I ever ever had 193 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: because we bush whacked because it's the snow, and we 194 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 2: popped into this big basin, you know, three miles by 195 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: two miles. It was large, it was green, and there 196 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: must have been three hundred at least cow elk in 197 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: the meadows with their calves calling back and forth. Wow. 198 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: And we didn't know it at the time, but these 199 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: but these big bears were coming in to prey on 200 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 2: the elk calves. So we both shot two big bears 201 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 2: and skinned them out and then had to use our 202 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: map and compass to get back to the highway. But 203 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: when I saw those elk, I said, whoa, I've got 204 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 2: to get in here. It's like nine ten miles in there. Yeah, 205 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: going to do it. And so I had to put 206 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: together a group of guys and guys I knew, and 207 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 2: guys that were good oukhunters and guys that I trusted in. Uh. 208 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: There was a there was an orthbetic surgeon from up 209 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: in Bellingham, Washington, and a friend of mine from Seattle 210 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: at hunted elk together in Oregon and they camp on 211 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 2: the Washington Oregon line. Oregon would open, they'd shoot a 212 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: spike there. Then they'd come back on the Washington side 213 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 2: in the Broom Mountains and shoot a spike. So I 214 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: called Andy and Bob. I said, hey, guys, I says, 215 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: you want to come to Idaho. We need some horses 216 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: to get where I want to go. And they said 217 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: sure and so and then one of my former well 218 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: my my secretary's husband was a VEST student and ended 219 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 2: up ultimately in Palmeroy, Washington. And so he had a horse, 220 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: and so I bought an old apples a rat tail 221 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 2: Apple USA from one of the athletes. And so anyway, 222 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: you know, actually the fall of seventy seven we went 223 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 2: in with horses and tip. You know, I didn't know 224 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: anything about it, much about it, you know, now, I 225 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 2: say we used to pack like sheepherders, because we we 226 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: had deckers and stuff and we die stuff on and 227 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: it'd fall off and then not companies. Anyway, it was 228 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: no those four guys we hunted that for twelve years. 229 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: Wow. 230 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: And during that time we never hunted more than three days. 231 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: It was rifle. We'd pack in on Monday, when we 232 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: drive up the trailer head on Monday, pack in Tuesday, 233 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: set up camp, and the season open on Wednesday. In 234 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: those days, like last week of September, and the bulls 235 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: were just really vocal. I mean at night, you could 236 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: just hear bulls bugling all around you. We were and 237 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: you know, the first the first three, the first two 238 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: days we got we got four nice bulls, and uh, 239 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: we had too much gear. We ended up boning them 240 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: out because we didn't have enough horses to do everything. 241 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: And we backpacked what we could and we and we 242 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: went out that way, and then we added some horses and 243 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 2: added some horses. I got a couple of horses and 244 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: ended up that we had we had like twelve horses 245 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 2: to go in there, you know, all walk to pack 246 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: out and four guys in your gear. And that was 247 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: before lightweight gear. You know. I got a meanium of 248 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: my blue jeans and my my yellow plastic raincoat, soaking 249 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: wet yell those but but therek you you know, you 250 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: were in that country. You hunted that country. But yeah, 251 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: you know, and of course I went back and I 252 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: I want to know the history. So I went back. 253 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: I read all everything I could find about the wildfires, 254 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: you know, and how the red stem Ceanothus was a 255 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: really important winter food. And I mean there were so 256 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: many elk in there in those days that and if 257 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: you've been in there, hiked up over Cook Mountain back 258 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 2: in that country, the elk trails were two feet wide 259 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: and a foot deep. Wow, those trails are still there. Yeah. 260 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: I've been in there a couple of years ago and 261 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 2: then a couple of years before that. The brush is 262 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: ten twelve feet tall, and I knew where, I knew 263 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 2: where the trails were, and I'd be going in there 264 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: with my horse and pretty soon he'd stumble and he'd 265 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: fall down into the elk trail. But I mean it 266 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: was on real We hunted it for twelve years, wow, 267 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: and you know, we hunted hard. I'd go in there 268 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: in the summer. It's funny because my my, my hunting 269 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: partner from Palmeroy, he was in the Nazarene church, and 270 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: he'd he could always find a couple of young boys, 271 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: maybe boys with just you know, a single parent that 272 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: would want to go with us, and so we'd take 273 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 2: them in there and Uh, you know, there were no 274 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: there's no timber in there, and. 275 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 3: We we uh followed elk trails and we took out 276 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: and you know, we dug out some downfall and maybe 277 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 3: cut a limb or two off of the brush so. 278 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: We could navigate in the morning before day and get 279 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 2: out away from camp. Because every year the circle got wider. 280 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: And finally we were killing elk clear over on Cook 281 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: Mountain and coming back two in the morning. But anyway, Uh, 282 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: like I say, we all hunted hard. Uh, it was 283 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 2: like a military camp. Then the night before, oh, we 284 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: get all the top of maps and we talk about this, 285 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 2: and we talk about where one guy was going and 286 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: where everybody went. And then as soon as one guy 287 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: got it, got his elk, he'd come back. You know, 288 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: we'd get his he'd get his elk out, or or 289 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: one of us and go with him and get it out, 290 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: and then he'd take care of the horses and cook. 291 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: And yeah, it was that was kind of the drill. 292 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: But the habitat was lesh. As you said, it's probably 293 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 2: one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Yeah, 294 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: And now now you know, later and later on we 295 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: can talk about what's changed. 296 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: But you guys were in there in September and that 297 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: was rifle hunting back then. 298 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. 299 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: Did they even have archery seasons during that time? 300 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: They did, and uh, we sell them ever saw a 301 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 2: boat hunter, okay, And what happened was after about eight 302 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: years and Max Walker was an old time outfitter. He 303 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 2: was a great guy. And then Gordon Stimmel was back 304 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: in there, and I knew both knew Gordon, never knew Max. 305 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 2: They were gentlemen and there weren't many people that ever 306 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: go in there. There were a few people going in 307 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 2: with horses, but not many. And the outfitter camp in 308 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: there in Paradise Meadow was just it was just all 309 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 2: trump down and it was really it wasn't really very active, 310 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: and we never saw an outfitter. But then a new 311 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 2: guy came in and bought the outfit and he didn't 312 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: like the fact that we were going in there and 313 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: packing out elk So anyway, we ended up moving elver 314 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: On on the other side in unk Cook Mountain, and uh, 315 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: you know, we still hunting the same areas, but uh, 316 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: and then I always remember, right, we have to ride 317 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 2: out through the lodge poles and in the dark and 318 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 2: it's real. It was real flat up there, and if 319 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: you didn't know your way, you get lost. And my 320 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: horse knew his way to where we'd ride out and 321 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: tie off. And then one day we're riding out there 322 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 2: and I shine my flashlight on a tree and there's 323 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: something shining. It's like a it's like a thumbtack with 324 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 2: with fluorescent pain on it. And what's that, you know? 325 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: And then pretty soon I could see another one. Well, 326 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 2: bow hunters had showed up and they were putting on 327 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: those thumbtacks, yeah, to get on the ridge. And then 328 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 2: it was we killed an olk almost every year after 329 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: that with a with a broad hand in the shoulder 330 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 2: almost here. Wow, that's when they showed up. It was probably, uh, 331 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 2: you know, uh, eighty two eighty three, and we never 332 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: saw them. They would come in off the top on 333 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: to the south where. 334 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: We were over towards out of the weedst there, across 335 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: the weedst there and come up that side. 336 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: Of Cook Mountain the Weast bridge, and then the outfit 337 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: or he he loaded up. He had seventy two hunters 338 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 2: in there one year, and he probably he had probably 339 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five bowl hunters. I'd looked up this, you know, 340 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: his information on for service records, and yeah, he had 341 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: like twenty or more boat hunters. And in those days 342 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: those help were a lot of elk. They didn't know 343 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 2: much about mules anyway. 344 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great way to kind of frame up 345 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: what kind of country that was and how many elk 346 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: were living there. My dad when he got out of 347 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: the Marines in World War Two, then he moved to 348 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: wee Ipe and made friends with some of the locals 349 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: and they started to go up and going up into 350 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: Kelly Creek in the late forties and they would take 351 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: go in there with the horses, and what he described 352 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: to like the elk trails were just as you described, 353 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, two feet wide, a foot deep, and there 354 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: were elk everywhere. And they never shot bulls for the 355 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: most part. It was they were they were there for 356 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: the cows. They would shoot, you know, just the meat. 357 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: They were just they worried about meat, and they're like, oh, 358 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: I don't shoot one of those old stinky bulls. We 359 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: want to We want a cow. You know, if somebody 360 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: shot a ball then they had to they'd give him 361 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: a raft a crap about it. But at what there 362 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: was kind of a turning point. An outfitter started guiding 363 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: up Kelly Creek there and and it sounds like a 364 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: similar operation, like tons and tons of people in camps 365 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: and all over the hillsides. And he said it got 366 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: to be kind of a rat race. And he he 367 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: he was there for the the quiet and the you know, 368 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: getting away and and not seeing a bunch of people 369 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: and then good hunting, and it just got to the 370 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: point he just gave it up. He's like, well, I'm 371 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: not going to go back up there anymore. But it's interesting. Interesting. 372 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: We did everything we could to to prevent any interference 373 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: with the outfitter, and we camped at the far end 374 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: of when when one outfitters area, and we basically hunted 375 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 2: on the on the edge of the other outfitter and 376 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: frank frankly, we never saw the outfitters up there except 377 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 2: when we're packing meet out and it was it was 378 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 2: a really we say it out of their way. 379 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: And yeah, Well, to this day, if you get on 380 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: Google Earth and you go to that place that you mentioned, 381 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 1: there's a there's a salt like there that's about the 382 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: size of my house that's still there. And I don't 383 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: know that there's very many elk hitting that salt lick anymore. 384 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: But they beat it down so bad back in the 385 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties that you know, nothing will grow in 386 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: that spot. 387 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: Well, the outfitter used to I'd never seen big, you know, 388 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: big one foot diameter or two foot chunks of rock salt. 389 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: And one day he was coming in with his mules 390 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: and they're all loaded with rock salt, and there big 391 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: licks in there there. But now one of the one 392 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 2: of the well, one of the two of the biggest 393 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 2: licks are so overgrown they're they're hardly there. And we 394 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 2: put some was up two years ago and left him 395 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: there from the middle of August till both seasons, and 396 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: on one camera we had a raghorn bull a cow 397 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 2: in a yearly and and those you know, the licks 398 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: are still there that some deer come in. But you know, 399 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: you know, if you've seen those licks, they dig right 400 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 2: down on the ground and they can't they can't salt anymore. 401 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: But there were, you know, there were a lot of 402 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 2: other I met some good friends. Uh my friend would 403 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: uh the guy hunted with you asked about hunting partners, 404 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: but the guy hunted with uh, you know, I was 405 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: run into these guys from Tilla mcregon way back up 406 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: and you know in the head of the head a 407 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: Cook Creek. Yeah, I'd never seen it. So it was 408 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: the first Elk Foundation meeting and Spokane. I had a 409 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: banquet and I sat down at this table and there's 410 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 2: four guys sitting there and uh, I introduced myself. I 411 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. They were Tilla mcorgon. They were the 412 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 2: guys that were coming in from the lock saw. 413 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: Oh no, kid. 414 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 2: If you talk about how many of us were hunting, uh, 415 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 2: you know, one great, two is enough. Three will work. 416 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 2: And if you know each other and you care about 417 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: each other and and this, and they're not jealous of 418 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: each other. Four is a good team, but never more 419 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 2: than four. And one of the things we people, well 420 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: you always wanted to know where we're hunting, well, you know, 421 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 2: and then some people get angry if you don't tell 422 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: them where you're hunting. People followed my you know, they're 423 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: looking at my vehicles and my horse truckness and that. 424 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: But we never took new people into the area just because, uh, 425 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,959 Speaker 2: you know, there's an outfitter in there. We don't want 426 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 2: to bring other people. And if somebody showed up. They 427 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: showed up. But that was a golden rule for us. 428 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: We never took anybody outside to our camp. And and 429 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: so you know, we hunted with four guys. And after 430 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 2: I put hunting the clear water and moved over in Salmon, 431 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: I hunumber three guys and you have two other guys. 432 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: But you can get you can get too many people 433 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: in camp, right right. And the other the other little 434 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: thing that comes into a hunting camp is jealousy. Yep, 435 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 2: if you're good and you're in good shape, and you 436 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 2: hunt really hard and you're successful, we'll have somebody that 437 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: doesn't take care of themselves and they don't take care 438 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: of their body and they're not in good shape, and 439 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: they won't push it the extra mile, and pretty soon 440 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: that person gets jealousy, you know. So that's that's my 441 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: old man's wisdom. The partner. Yeah, it's like you've got 442 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: to have a good one. 443 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's almost like when you're looking for a mate, 444 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, you're looking for a wife. You have to 445 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: vet that that hunting partner so good and make sure 446 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: that you guys can get along, because I've seen that, 447 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, the back country can bring out the best 448 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: in people, or it can bring out the worst in people. 449 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: You know you can because you know it's not all. 450 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: Every day is not just easy laying around and enjoying 451 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: delicious food and sitting around camp. I mean there's hardships, 452 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: there's inclement weather, there's difficulties, finding game whatever, whatever the 453 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: difficulty is. Those those partners have to kind of weather 454 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: the storm with you. And and the ones that that 455 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: are really great, they're like worth their weight in gold. 456 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: And the ones that that that cause problems, those ones 457 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: don't get to come back next time. 458 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 2: Well, I talk about the three day rule. A lot 459 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: of people are ready to go home after three days. 460 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 461 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 2: And uh, dealing with adversity. If you want to be 462 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 2: an elk hunter and be successful, you have to be 463 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: able to deal with adversity. It doesn't make any difference 464 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: whether it's a horse that's injured or whether you get 465 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: snow you get snowed in. Uh, you know it's really 466 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: cold at the elk move whatever, and you got to 467 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: you've got to go the extra mile. And and when 468 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: you find you know guys in your party that will 469 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: do that, You've got a perfect team. And it's a 470 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 2: team effort. And the other thing that I've always said 471 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: is if I can't be just as pleased with the 472 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 2: success of my hunting partner as I would be for myself, 473 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 2: I'm not a very good hunting partner, because you know, 474 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 2: you share the experience and you share the camp and 475 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: that I've always I've almost always had ninety percent of 476 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: the time hunting partners that were that way, and it's 477 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 2: a key to a really enjoyable hunt. One of the 478 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: questions you had was about mature bulls. Yeah, you know, 479 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 2: when I first started hunting in there, there was It 480 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: was a September opener on a Wednesday, and they were 481 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: bulls screaming everywhere everywhere. I mean, and I had the 482 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: first year we went in, I had a guy that 483 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: worked at WSU that had some horses. He was a 484 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: guy from North Dakota. He packed me in and dropped 485 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 2: me off. He had four horses, dropping me off with 486 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: my gear, and he left me. I put up my 487 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: tent and then he left that same day. That night 488 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: to night, I'll never forget all my life because we 489 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: had inadvertently set our camp right at the crossroads in 490 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 2: about three major elk trades. 491 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: No, No, I didn't know the night. 492 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have my rookies. I'm lying there in the 493 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: tent and it just gets dark, and I hear this 494 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: this water splash, and I hear this bull just scream. 495 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 2: He's like ten feet from my tent. Oh man, And 496 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: whole night long, and the elk come down. They'd be 497 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: splashed in the creek. They'd smell me, they'd be beautiy. 498 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 2: I mean all night long. I ain't sleep all night. 499 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: And but there most all the bulls we shot ninety 500 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: were mature bulls, mostly all sixes. And uh, you know 501 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 2: we didn't We shot the first really legal bull we 502 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 2: could get. He didn't turn down you didn't turn down 503 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: a five point because because but there weren't very many 504 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: five points. I mean, you know, there were so many 505 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 2: mature bulls in there in those days. I've never seen 506 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 2: anything like it since. Wow. 507 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: Did you ever see you that were just remarkably large, 508 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: like giant? Like wow? That today? You know, people is 509 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: always looking, you know, throw they always throw around big numbers, 510 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, four hundred inches or three hundred and fifty inches. 511 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: Would you ever say you saw anything of that kind 512 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: of caliber back in those days? 513 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: There was one in there that would have probably gone 514 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: three sixty or more. That some guys from Oregon killed. 515 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: The biggest bull I killed in there was just short 516 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: of three forty. My buddy, uh Jerry, he killed one 517 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: the same night, just just short of three forty. But 518 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 2: that you know, those are the biggest bulls we saw. Yeah, 519 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: most of were three hundred class six points. Okay, maybe 520 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: you know, but you know, I'm a I've been a 521 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: Boonakracks score. So when I spick at a bull and 522 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: I say he's a three hundred, he probably is. I 523 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: keep I'm amused at how Boonakracks scores. 524 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: Oh, it's funny depending on who you talk to. It's like, 525 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: if I'm talking to one person, they said, yeah, I 526 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: saw a three hundred inch bowl. I usually sometimes I'll 527 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: I'll subtract about twenty or thirty inches and I'm like, okay. 528 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: So you know, because a lot of people, as soon 529 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: as they see a nice six point, they're like, oh, 530 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: there's a three hundred bowl. Well that's and three hundred 531 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: bowl is a really nice bowl. That's a big heavy 532 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: horn bowl, good beams, good porns points. That's a pretty 533 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: nice bull there. They don't they don't grow on every 534 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: tree that's for sure. 535 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: No, but back you know, and the days we were 536 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 2: hunting in there, you can almost always find a nice 537 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 2: six point the first or second day. Wow, three days 538 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 2: and we packed meet the fourth day and when I 539 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: pack went home the next day because I had to 540 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 2: be at work on Monday. Yeah, you know you asked 541 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 2: about ask about the the condition of the forage and 542 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: the habitat, Yes, was per it was ideal. You know 543 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 2: if you go back and read about you know, the 544 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 2: fires that burned in there and two successes of different 545 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 2: big fires. Uh, the conifers were really burned, and there 546 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 2: was there were brush fields, but the brush fields were immature. 547 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: Uh you know, if you could you could find a 548 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 2: ten foot in this one great big open area where 549 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 2: all these guys were. There were huge meadows and a 550 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: lot of ferns and would grow in those meadows and stuff, 551 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 2: and there was a lot of water, but uh uh 552 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 2: no conifers at all. And then if you've got the 553 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 2: conifers where there were there were a lot of immature conifers, uh, 554 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: you know for mostly for some him lock in there. 555 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:52,280 Speaker 2: And uh I remember, uh there was one one really 556 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 2: steep trail or ridge we had to pack meat on 557 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: and it was hard to you know, to figure out 558 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 2: where you were. And so uh, I mean once in 559 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: a while we nip the top of a little like 560 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 2: a three four foot Christmas tree, just cut the top off. 561 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: Yeah about that? And is it because you know you 562 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 2: could see that and you'd look for that. Now those 563 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:22,479 Speaker 2: trees are are fifty twenty feet doll and you could 564 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: see you know, they've got triple tops or something. But yeah, 565 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 2: and there are hillsides we I mean we could shoot across. 566 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: I always hunted with a three forty weather bean. I 567 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: knew the ballistics and we can shoot across from one 568 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 2: side to the other. Now you couldn't see an elk 569 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 2: on that hillside across there, and then well, what's what's happening? Well, 570 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 2: I've gone in there for really religiously just to go 571 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: in there. Sure, and uh and look and see it's 572 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: such a neat place. I took my kids in there, 573 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: my daughters, and we'd go in and camp. And I 574 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: was in there three years ago and we probably rode 575 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, seventy miles through there with the horses. 576 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 2: Found one elk track. Wow, And used to be able 577 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: to ride an ATV from Cayuse Creek, you know, uh, 578 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 2: clear across to the lock Saw. Yep, and the roads 579 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 2: were just there were elk trails coming down the cutbank 580 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 2: and they just trails foot deep with elk are coming 581 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: down the cut bank, crossing the road and going across. Yeah, 582 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 2: it was about seven years ago. I never saw an 583 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 2: elk track on that road all the way to Cayus 584 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,919 Speaker 2: Meadows from the lock Saw. It's yeah, and the elk 585 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 2: just aren't there. So what's the you know, what's the deal, 586 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: what's the you know, what's the deal with the wolves 587 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 2: and what's the remedy. About the time I quld hunting there, 588 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: the elk numbers were down, but there weren't any wolves 589 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 2: there yet. And uh the black bears. I shot a 590 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: lot of blackberries in the clear water because he could 591 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: shoot two. Now we'd go in early and if I 592 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 2: got a brown one, then I'd hunt for a black 593 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 2: one and we shot. We've shot blackberries with you know, 594 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 2: after just minutes after they killed an elk calf. But 595 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 2: then Mike Schlegel did the study on the on the 596 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: elk depredy or they very you know, the depredation by bears. 597 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 2: They're back and I'd see my cup there in the 598 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: cell away and stop and look at his data, and uh, 599 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,439 Speaker 2: you know they had mortality signals on their on their 600 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 2: on their calves. But at one time the elk mortality 601 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: in there was like seventy eighty percent on my calves. 602 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 2: And the black bears killed a lot of calves, right, 603 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 2: and of course then you've got lions. Well, it's a 604 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: habitat issue as well. I mean people want to blame 605 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 2: the wolves. Yeah, the wolves are in there, but you 606 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 2: can't just blame the wolf because it's a combination. Jim 607 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 2: Peak is a wildlacbologist that I have always respected, and 608 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 2: he'll talk to you about the Batholithic soils and how 609 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 2: the burn just really burned the soil and the conifers 610 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 2: and the brush is coming back and that's not good 611 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 2: elk habitat. So anyway, and then you know we know 612 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 2: about the wolves. I mean, when they're in there. There 613 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 2: are a lot of photos on Facebook and stuff of 614 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 2: the wolves killing slaughtering elk down right on the river. 615 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 2: But the combination is is the sticker. But now you know, 616 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 2: I Mike Schlegel is a really good friend of mine. 617 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:02,399 Speaker 2: He's a wild lacabology. It really is studying that right now. 618 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: And I'm known the fire manager over on the Clearwater, 619 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: he laid out a whole series of burned and in 620 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 2: the places that really needed to be burned, he dake 621 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: those out. I saw where they were. He you know, 622 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 2: I saw his maps. Guess why people don't like smoke. 623 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 2: And you know now they haven't done any of those 624 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 2: burned simply because of the you know, the the image 625 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 2: and the social pressure that people put on the Forest 626 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 2: service because of smoke, and and and he finally left. 627 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 2: But there's there are all kinds of burn units laid 628 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 2: out all over that clearwater that haven't been burned and 629 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 2: should be burned, but probably never would, so you know, 630 00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 2: it's a tragic thing. The other the other issue I 631 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: I've encountered up there is the motorcycle access. Okay, you know, 632 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:12,439 Speaker 2: I'm not an anti ATV motorcycle person, not at all. 633 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: I had eight I've never had a motorcycle. But the 634 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 2: last time I was in there, we camped clew up 635 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 2: and the head a Cook Creek and came in from 636 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 2: the lock saw and the next morning I wanted to 637 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: go ride clear back acrossover and drop into Paradise Meadows 638 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 2: and go down where camp was, and we're going across 639 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 2: Windy Ridge early in the morning. And my horses are 640 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,880 Speaker 2: really gentle. They don't you know, they motorcycles and stuff 641 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 2: don't bother me. And the one horse I had was trailing. 642 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 2: He kept jumping around every once in a while, and 643 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 2: all of a sudden I figured out there's a motorcycle 644 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 2: right behind. And the trail had the trail had been 645 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 2: had been x evated with those mini excavators. It was 646 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: two feet wide. The brush was cleared three feet to 647 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 2: each side of it. And there must have been a 648 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 2: dozen guys from Missoula, and not that was a bad place, 649 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,759 Speaker 2: but there a dozen guys, you know, there were in 650 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 2: all their their plastic protection and they had chainsaws. They 651 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 2: were riding from Windy saddle on the lock. So over 652 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 2: all the way over into Cooked Mountain, down onto the 653 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 2: the road, all the way down to the wheat and 654 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 2: up the wheatas and back up through uh this cabin, 655 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 2: and all the way back in one day and the 656 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 2: four service, I mean, it was a motocross. That was 657 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: a great motocross trail. And to the worst part was 658 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 2: we left an eight pack of cold smoke and the creek. Oh, 659 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 2: don't you know it's our favorite Montana beer. But anyway, 660 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 2: when we walked about fifty yards up the creek from 661 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 2: what we camped, and we we ditched it down in 662 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 2: underneath in the water and go back there bowt hunting, 663 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 2: and these there's a trail crew in there. They're they're 664 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 2: cutting trail. I mean they're cutting brush out of the trail. 665 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 2: And the nerdy buggers drink are cold soak. 666 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: Oh no, but now it's you know, if you've got 667 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: a bike and you like to ride the back country trails, 668 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: it's it's the epitome. 669 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 2: I mean it's the best there is. Yeah. And then uh, 670 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 2: the next day we're clear out and Cook Mountains. Some 671 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 2: guys from polatch Idahope. I could hear him coming, and 672 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 2: my horse isn't you know, he's not spooked. But this 673 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 2: guy come ripping around the corner and laid his bike 674 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: down right in the trail so he didn't run into me. 675 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 2: And the guy said to me, he says, wow, he says, 676 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 2: you're the first guys I've ever seen up here on 677 00:42:53,400 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 2: the horses since uh since pre wolf. Anyway, you know, 678 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 2: the clear water is uh it's an absolutely special place. 679 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 2: And you know, I've got a few friends that are 680 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 2: still getting some really nice bulls out of there. Yeah, 681 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: you know, I know kind of where they are and 682 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 2: and uh, you know, they don't say much. They just 683 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,760 Speaker 2: go in there and and hunt. 684 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: H it's a it's a daunting place if you've never 685 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: been there or never hunted country like that. 686 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 2: I know. 687 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some some people who live there close by 688 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: or or have spent a lot of years up in 689 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,359 Speaker 1: that country hunting that that they'll find success. A lot 690 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,840 Speaker 1: of a lot of folks who hunt from out of 691 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: state will come up and never been there, and they 692 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 1: will they might spend ten days without even seeing an elk, 693 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: just just because it seems like it's kind of the 694 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: population elk is a little bit pockety. Like you may 695 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 1: go miles and miles without seeing anything and then one 696 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: little pocket that they either the elk feel really safe. 697 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 2: Or. 698 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: Maybe the wolves don't bother them there, or people don't 699 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,720 Speaker 1: bother them there, whatever reason, they'll have a little spot 700 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: they like to be and you'll find some milk. And 701 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: it's like winning the lotter and finding one of those spots. 702 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 2: And as far as wolves, there used to be a 703 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 2: lot of wolves in there. You could hear wolves solid 704 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 2: every day, and now, yeah, you don't hear them very often. 705 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 2: Sell them I think back where. 706 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they follow the food, you know. And 707 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: as as the elk numbers decline and they keep moving 708 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,400 Speaker 1: to try to find find food, they probably move closer 709 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: to town, for sure. 710 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,080 Speaker 2: I'll chase one. I'll chase one side rabbit, and then 711 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 2: we'll talk about my book, if you'd like. But I 712 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 2: used to run into some guys from Pennsylvania clear out 713 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 2: on the backside over there, and they had a gun 714 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 2: that looked like it was it was a six point 715 00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 2: five weather or yeah, six point five whether it be 716 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 2: w W H now it's in the oldies. It was 717 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 2: the Weather be right Hoyer long range rifle and had 718 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 2: a bench ress set up in front of their tent 719 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 2: and they had a basically walton and a bench dress 720 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 2: spotting soap and they were shooting elk eight or nine 721 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 2: hundred yards across the canyon. Yeah, And I asked him 722 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,200 Speaker 2: how many they lost. And this is the problem is 723 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 2: we get over there and the brush is thick, we 724 00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 2: can't find some of them. Anyway, I mentioned it, and 725 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 2: I was talking to Mike Schlegel about it. Now, there's 726 00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 2: a limit on the way to the gun. You can 727 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,240 Speaker 2: use a rifle, you can use. But so with my book, 728 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,600 Speaker 2: I'll just be fairly short. It's called The Hunting Horseman. 729 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 2: It's available at Western Hunter on the website. On the 730 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,439 Speaker 2: Western Hunter website, you can just google it and find it. 731 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:24,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the title of your book. 732 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 2: It's called The Hunting Horseman. Okay. 733 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 4: And so after I, after I had left Moon and 734 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 4: crock and stuff, Ryan Hatfield is a guy hired. 735 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 2: From Council, Idaho as assistant director of a big game. 736 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 2: And he left and he went to work for Eastman's 737 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 2: and such, and he ended up with Western Hunter and 738 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 2: they wanted to start a new Elk Hunter magazine. So 739 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 2: he called me and asked me if I would be 740 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 2: willing to write an article every month or whatever. I said, well, yeah, 741 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,919 Speaker 2: But he said, I want to write about horses. I said, well, Ryan, 742 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 2: I said, you know, there's a lot of stuff out 743 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,760 Speaker 2: there about saddles and how to pack horses and smoke. 744 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,160 Speaker 2: Elser's got books out, and you know, Joe Back wrote 745 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,240 Speaker 2: the original one and all that stuff. So really about 746 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 2: horse packing, the techniques that's uh, that's pretty well covered. 747 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 2: But I so I said, you know, if you want 748 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 2: me to write something, I'll write about using stock in 749 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 2: the backcountry for hunting. Period. Yeah, and so I started 750 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 2: writing some articles twelve years or eleven years ago, and 751 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 2: so I wrote all that I was writing these articles 752 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,920 Speaker 2: and they were published, and then kind of in the 753 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 2: middle of that, I wrote an article that was entitled 754 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 2: packed like a Hunter. Okay, well, if you're going to 755 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 2: go into your hunting camp every year, only there's certain 756 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 2: things you take every year. There's certain things you can 757 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 2: weigh up ahead of time. You don't need to be 758 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,320 Speaker 2: manning everything up and having all these fancy nots, and 759 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 2: there's a lot of ways to do it. Anyway, that 760 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 2: was a really interesting article. But anyway, so I got 761 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,520 Speaker 2: my health changed dramatically one year ago February Valentine's Day, 762 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,919 Speaker 2: and we didn't know what how much time I had, 763 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 2: and so presenting publisher of Western Hunter called me. So 764 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 2: Georgie says, what do you think about putting all your 765 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,200 Speaker 2: articles in a book? Said, yeah, that'd be kind of cool. 766 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:50,240 Speaker 2: And so we spent some time last February and March 767 00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,640 Speaker 2: and they compiled all of the articles I'd written for 768 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 2: the Western actually start out Elk Hunter, then it went 769 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 2: to Western Hunter. H yeah, and uh so they put 770 00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 2: it all together and uh it turned out really not 771 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,720 Speaker 2: really well, it's it's uh, it's got it's just full color, 772 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,360 Speaker 2: the whole thing it. It has some some tribute friends 773 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:22,359 Speaker 2: have written The Hunted with me, but uh, you won't 774 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 2: find another book like it. It's it's gotten stuff and 775 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,439 Speaker 2: things in there about access and and it's got things 776 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 2: in there about new conservation issues and stuff, but most 777 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,839 Speaker 2: of it's about hunting and uh, everything from how you 778 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 2: put up a wal tant with polls, you know, where 779 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 2: you where you sit, you camp. But it's uh three 780 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 2: hundred pages. 781 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 5: It's good reading and uh and uh, anyway it turned out, 782 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,040 Speaker 5: I'm wondering, are those guys going to have uh those 783 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 5: available at the Western Hunter Expo or Western Hi Expo 784 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 5: in Salt Lake City next week. 785 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:09,440 Speaker 2: Well, Chris just got back from sci and I'll suggest 786 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 2: that you have some available. Yeah, it was limited production 787 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 2: of like a thousand, but I'm going to talk with 788 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 2: you about it. Yeah. 789 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll have to go by their booth. And I 790 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,160 Speaker 1: always like to try to track those guys. Chris and 791 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: Nate and those guys from Western hundred count anyway, and 792 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: give them a ras them a little bit, and and 793 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,759 Speaker 1: I hope they got the book. I've been wanting to 794 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,359 Speaker 1: pick it up. So maybe I'll be able to pick 795 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,919 Speaker 1: one up there. If not, I'll just order on the website. 796 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a book you'll you'll keep or you'll 797 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 2: pass on to your relatives their children. I like to 798 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 2: hunt because it's a basic boy scout manuel but not really. 799 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, so any last comments on the 800 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: Clearwater country And you know, you know there's been some 801 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,239 Speaker 1: wild fires in the last decade there, but maybe they're 802 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,720 Speaker 1: not I haven't been strategic to where it would would 803 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: still help the elk population rebound. What needs to happen 804 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: to get that elk population rebound in the clear the 805 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,600 Speaker 1: Clearwater region, What do you think it's going to look 806 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: like in five ten years from now, because I know 807 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of that timber that's maturing, and if 808 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:19,719 Speaker 1: you spend time up there, you'll see a lot of 809 00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 1: deadfall between from Beetlekill or and then there's some of 810 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,319 Speaker 1: the wildfire as well. But what do you what do 811 00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: you think the future holds for the clear water. 812 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,160 Speaker 2: It really depends on the Forest Service. It really depends 813 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 2: on the Horrort Service because there are a lot of 814 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,719 Speaker 2: things they could do up there that are you know, 815 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 2: good good forest practices. But UH, in order to create 816 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 2: elk habitat, you have to have open areas. You have 817 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:55,839 Speaker 2: to have you know, feeding areas in betting areas and 818 00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,719 Speaker 2: treat canopies. But there has to be grass that they 819 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 2: eat and when it is all brush and so you've 820 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,840 Speaker 2: got to burn that brush. The brush has to be burned. 821 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 2: And they know how to do it, but the social 822 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 2: pressure UH and the current leadership in the Forest Service 823 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,439 Speaker 2: has not seen they have not seen fit to do it. 824 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 2: But they have a plan and it's all been mapped 825 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 2: out and it's a habitat issue number one. Fishing games, 826 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,120 Speaker 2: dealing with the wolves. You know they've gone in there 827 00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:34,160 Speaker 2: with the trapper and taken some out with with you know, 828 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 2: the other cop outfit. But it's a big time thing, 829 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,839 Speaker 2: is the habitat, and somehow we've got to figure out 830 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,000 Speaker 2: figure that out. But we know what to do. You know. 831 00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,879 Speaker 2: The sad thing is we know what to do. Mike 832 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,319 Speaker 2: Schlegl and I've talked about this forever and he's made 833 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,120 Speaker 2: charts about how important that elk resource was to the 834 00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:02,440 Speaker 2: economy of Idaho and all that he's charted the you know, 835 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,880 Speaker 2: the decline and the herds. But any biologist that knows 836 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 2: that country, we'll just tell you it's a habitat issue 837 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 2: and we've got to we've got to burn some of 838 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 2: that stuff. You know, you can't. 839 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: You can't just fix one thing and expect everything to 840 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: be be to work. You got to multiple things. You 841 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: got to fix, whether predation, habitat, access, all of it. 842 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,200 Speaker 1: Fix everything, and then you know those animals are gonna 843 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:32,840 Speaker 1: flourish again. 844 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the two bear limit or you know 845 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 2: the opportunity from hunter two bears and a reduced tag. 846 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,960 Speaker 2: That's really important for fishing game. It's very important because 847 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:51,879 Speaker 2: there are a lot of bears in the career. And 848 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,200 Speaker 2: you know, in the old days, the sky Ralph Flowers 849 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 2: used to used to be a bear hunter for Warehouser 850 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,880 Speaker 2: on these on the westcat to Washington, and you know, 851 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 2: bears will strip bark off of a young. 852 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,760 Speaker 4: You know, ah. 853 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,000 Speaker 2: Two foot diameter tree and they stripped the bark off 854 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 2: to get to the canbyan and that's why you know 855 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,000 Speaker 2: Flowers was hired to kill bears in the warehouse or 856 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 2: forest because they're stripping cambyon or stripping the bark. You 857 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:29,640 Speaker 2: can go up there you're been talking about, and the 858 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,120 Speaker 2: trees are all stripped. I mean they're stripped everywhere, and 859 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,319 Speaker 2: you know, tell it, you can see it, and if 860 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 2: you want to go rounding, it's it's a good spot. Yeah. No. 861 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,920 Speaker 2: And then I don't know conservation organizations, you know, I 862 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,920 Speaker 2: don't know what the Elk Foundation could do to fund 863 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,359 Speaker 2: some stuff in there, but but they've got to work 864 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,040 Speaker 2: hand in hand with the Forest Service. The Forest Server 865 00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 2: doesn't give the go ahead, you know, it can't, it 866 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 2: won't happen. 867 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:06,880 Speaker 1: Do you think we could get enough rally enough Sportsman 868 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,319 Speaker 1: two put pressure on the fish or not the fishing game, 869 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,359 Speaker 1: but the Forest Service to maybe take a look at 870 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,400 Speaker 1: some of those kind of things. You know, I feel 871 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: like it seems like the people that don't want you 872 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,040 Speaker 1: to burn they have a they have a bigger voice 873 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: than the people the other side. You know, I feel 874 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,480 Speaker 1: like just getting organized and getting enough people involved would 875 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 1: would maybe help turn the tide a little bit. 876 00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:41,040 Speaker 2: What do you think, Well, hunters just don't speak up, right, 877 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:46,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we just don't speak up. We don't write letters, 878 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,640 Speaker 2: we just don't speak up. And you can look at 879 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,000 Speaker 2: any of these issues, like with the wolves right now 880 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,960 Speaker 2: in Montana, you've got thousands of letters being sent to 881 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:04,320 Speaker 2: a fishing game to reduce the wolf. Howres well hunters. 882 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 2: We'll go to public meetings, we complain, but we're not 883 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:15,600 Speaker 2: very aggressive. And I guess you know, the the young 884 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,000 Speaker 2: hunters that are coming on, if there's anything that they 885 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,879 Speaker 2: can take away from this podcast is get involved. Get 886 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:28,000 Speaker 2: involved with your local sports organization and get involved. And 887 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,759 Speaker 2: you know, the Oak Foundation is a great organization. You 888 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,719 Speaker 2: get involved with that, But don't just go to a banquet. 889 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,840 Speaker 2: You don't talk to these people and you get a 890 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 2: hold of their lands people and and like in the 891 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,800 Speaker 2: clear Water. You know, I was one of the guys 892 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 2: that put together the lists in banquet years ago. It's 893 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,080 Speaker 2: the fifth banquet they ever had and a fifth place, 894 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,160 Speaker 2: and I have a thousand people in Lewiston. But you 895 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,279 Speaker 2: get those people rallied up about the clear water, you know, 896 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:02,360 Speaker 2: and you've got to You've got to it's about numbers. 897 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,480 Speaker 2: And you don't go there and holler at a public meeting, 898 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,360 Speaker 2: you go to the people that can make it happen. 899 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 2: But you know, this whole future of that, you know, 900 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,719 Speaker 2: is in the hands of our young people, especially our 901 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,800 Speaker 2: young hundred conservations. You know, it's one thing to go 902 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 2: hunting all the time, but it's another thing to spend 903 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,200 Speaker 2: some time helping raise money for you know, while life 904 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 2: and conservation issues too. You can do both. I did. Yeah, 905 00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:35,200 Speaker 2: you got to have a side hustle for conservation along 906 00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:35,880 Speaker 2: with your job. 907 00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: There you go, yeah, I like that. Yeah, And you know, 908 00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,360 Speaker 1: people don't they think, oh, I don't have time to 909 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,479 Speaker 1: you know, write letters or reach out or call call 910 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,880 Speaker 1: your representatives or your legislators in your state or whatever. 911 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,840 Speaker 1: But it doesn't take any time. I mean, you can 912 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,840 Speaker 1: pick up the phone and start calling and spend thirty 913 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 1: minutes on one particular day, or you could take you know, 914 00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: you could type out a a professional sound and email 915 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,600 Speaker 1: within within an hour or maybe two. And and there's 916 00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: so much you know, if maybe you don't feel like 917 00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:13,160 Speaker 1: you're you're not a great letter writer today, there's there's 918 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,480 Speaker 1: all this AI, you know, for all of us young people. 919 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 1: There's all this AI technology that will you know, that 920 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,000 Speaker 1: will like chat GPT that will help you write of 921 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,720 Speaker 1: the best sounded letter anyone could write. And then you know, 922 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: send those letters to these organizations and let them know 923 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,840 Speaker 1: what you're thinking. Because if the opposition is just crushing 924 00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,160 Speaker 1: us with their letters, man, folks on our side of 925 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: the table gotta got to stand up and do some 926 00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,800 Speaker 1: stuff too. So I appreciate you bringing that up. 927 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:47,720 Speaker 2: Well, that's the future really is. You know, our young 928 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 2: hunters are very enthusiastic about going farther into the back 929 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,120 Speaker 2: country and hunting the way back off the grid, and 930 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 2: they've got the latest, you know, like weeight gear and 931 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,400 Speaker 2: camel and sleeping in hammocks and sleeping in in hot 932 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 2: tents and all that. The thing that makes me makes 933 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:12,040 Speaker 2: me smile is I see them nicular back ten miles 934 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 2: off the grid over an eight thousand foot summit and 935 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:18,720 Speaker 2: they don't have a clue how they're going to get 936 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 2: their elk. Kind of that's a. 937 00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: Whole that's a huge undertaking. 938 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, But anyway, Derek, this has been been really a 939 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,400 Speaker 2: nice visit with you. And yeah, call me and if 940 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,240 Speaker 2: you want to share my you know, my Facebook stuff. 941 00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 2: People can get a hold of math. People call me 942 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,000 Speaker 2: all the time, about you know, hunting and different things, 943 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:48,360 Speaker 2: and sure you know your rifles or whatever. And I 944 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 2: always help. I'm always willing to help. Uh. 945 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,040 Speaker 1: So people can look you up on Facebook and it's 946 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,560 Speaker 1: George Battis. How do you say your last name? 947 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 2: Beat us? Beat uses? Okay, okay, enough, okay? 948 01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: And do you have Instagram? 949 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,680 Speaker 2: I do? Yeah, I think it should beat us Instagram? 950 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Okay, right, well that's great man. I've really enjoyed, uh 951 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,240 Speaker 1: this conversation. And and as you described that country back 952 01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,240 Speaker 1: in the old days, my man, my head was just 953 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,840 Speaker 1: spinning thinking about you know those bulls b you going 954 01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,200 Speaker 1: all night long and you know the meadows full of 955 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: elk And if you've seen that country, it just it 956 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,160 Speaker 1: would it makes makes your makes your head spin. And 957 01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: to see what it is today, it's it's a very 958 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,720 Speaker 1: stark contrast. Like you could probably give people a map 959 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,720 Speaker 1: and say, oh yeah, go ouhunt elk up there, because 960 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,080 Speaker 1: you're not really giving anything away at this point. They're 961 01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:50,919 Speaker 1: just not not much for elk up there. 962 01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,000 Speaker 2: But uh, it's I still like to go back and 963 01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,400 Speaker 2: visit those old spots and go to where old Gordon 964 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,680 Speaker 2: stim while you to camp and different places and you know, 965 01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,360 Speaker 2: where I used to camp and then go ride a 966 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:11,720 Speaker 2: loop down down towards the wheats and that. Uh, it's 967 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 2: just there's some there's special places on this earth where 968 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:22,520 Speaker 2: you've been me usually hunting, and there's a special feeling 969 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 2: you get there. There's the smell, you know. We used 970 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,800 Speaker 2: to have grass two feet tall at our camp, right 971 01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 2: and after after you know, you just turn the horses 972 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:37,000 Speaker 2: out with the hobbles this there need eat grass. They 973 01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,520 Speaker 2: already walk under the yards tent. Now, well, the same 974 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,960 Speaker 2: place you go. It is so dry on these rich stops, 975 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,400 Speaker 2: and the cows of eating out the rapid areas. You 976 01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,040 Speaker 2: got to pack your own feed. And that was it 977 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,520 Speaker 2: was so neat about that camp. It was and pressure 978 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,760 Speaker 2: hunting pressure. You know. There were a few guys that 979 01:01:55,800 --> 01:02:00,680 Speaker 2: would hike in with most guys would use the road system. 980 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:03,000 Speaker 2: And I mean I never saw anybody else other than 981 01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,400 Speaker 2: a few guys I knew that had versus there in 982 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:07,800 Speaker 2: all those years. Twelve years. 983 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:11,400 Speaker 1: Wow, Well it's an amazing place for sure. 984 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you involving me, and I 985 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,000 Speaker 2: can do anything else for you or any of your listeners. 986 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,840 Speaker 1: All right, well, thanks so much for coming on here. 987 01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,439 Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure for sure. 988 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:28,240 Speaker 2: Thank you much, thank you