Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios.
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher,
Speaker 2: where our mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding.
Speaker 1: I am your host, Ramsey's Jah.
Speaker 3: He is Ramsy's Jah, I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 3: listening to Cilic Cipher.
Speaker 2: Indeed you are, And there's a lot to stick around
Speaker 2: for today, especially because today we're going to be talking
Speaker 2: about the intersection of faith and faith, baith based traditions
Speaker 2: of stuff to say, the intersection of that in politics,
Speaker 2: and a lot of times what we're seeing is and
Speaker 2: what we've seen throughout the history of this country, is
Speaker 2: that people will use religion Christianity specifically to justify their politics,
Speaker 2: and in doing so, they completely change the intention that
Speaker 2: most Biblical scholars would assign to texts and narratives that
Speaker 2: they would assign to those those passages. And so we
Speaker 2: need you to know about that and how to identify
Speaker 2: it and how to push back against it. And for
Speaker 2: the second part of the show, we're going to spend
Speaker 2: some time discussing in online exchange that was had where
Speaker 2: an individual effectively said that we should go back to Africa.
Speaker 2: There's more to the story. But you know, we'll break
Speaker 2: it down when we get there. But you know, there
Speaker 2: are people out.
Speaker 1: There who really feel that way.
Speaker 2: They sincerely think that, you know, if you're not happy
Speaker 2: in this country, should just go back to Africa. It's
Speaker 2: also simple to them. And maybe they're good people, maybe
Speaker 2: they're well intentioned, but the fact of the matter is
Speaker 2: that these people exist and it's up to us to
Speaker 2: have these conversations for your benefits, so that if you
Speaker 2: encounter folks like this, you know how to approach them,
Speaker 2: and you know, if you have a degree of empathy
Speaker 2: and they're willing to have a conversation, I think that
Speaker 2: bridges can be built in that space as well. So
Speaker 2: stay tuned for that and so much more on today's show.
Speaker 2: But first and foremost, like we always do at this time,
Speaker 2: let's discuss some ebony excellent, shall we we shall?
Speaker 3: This week's ebony Excellence is brought to you by Actively Black.
Speaker 3: Visit actively black dot com. There is Greatness in our
Speaker 3: DNA facts from Humble Texas. Viakp RC, a six year
Speaker 3: old boy in Texas, may be one of the smartest
Speaker 3: kids in the state. In fact, he may be one
Speaker 3: of the smartest kids in the country. Chandler Hughes has
Speaker 3: joined MENSA, a society for people with high IQs. It's
Speaker 3: a special fraternity of people who are essentially geniuses. Chandler
Speaker 3: started reading before he was two years old and wants
Speaker 3: to be a doctor someday. Quote a medical doctor because
Speaker 3: I want to help people when they are sick.
Speaker 1: Chandler clarified.
Speaker 3: When he was in pre k, Chandler's dad said his
Speaker 3: son finished on a second grade reading and math level.
Speaker 1: He went straight to first grade. He completely skipped kindergarten.
Speaker 1: Bes Chandler may be.
Speaker 3: Book smart, but his dad said the next step is
Speaker 3: to work on his socialization to help him continue to
Speaker 3: succeed in life. Young Chandler, you are not just ahead
Speaker 3: of where I was head of your class, freak, but
Speaker 3: I think you are ahead of most of us who
Speaker 3: it's seeming to have this what I.
Speaker 1: Want to be when I grow up then figured out already.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, so shouts the Chandler and his father for
Speaker 3: providing us with such an inspirational story.
Speaker 1: I think I want to be like Chandler when I
Speaker 1: grow up. Sure, sure you know.
Speaker 2: We do get an opportunity to cite an example of
Speaker 2: black excellence. We call it ebony excellence on the show here,
Speaker 2: of course, but we do get to cite an example
Speaker 2: every week, just because our stories are not all doom
Speaker 2: and gloom and police killing us and everything bad happened
Speaker 2: and or politically disenfranchised. There is excellence from our communities
Speaker 2: as well, and so today's example certainly feels like something
Speaker 2: that is more than worthy of that. And you know,
Speaker 2: a little black genius child is never a bad thing,
Speaker 2: especially when you're trying to change the narrative. Right, speaking
Speaker 2: of changing the narrative, Christ in politics, why don't you
Speaker 2: start us off? Q?
Speaker 3: Should I start with the video or do you want
Speaker 3: to just hear how I feel about this thing?
Speaker 1: Let's start with how you feel. You know you have
Speaker 1: a unique perspective here.
Speaker 3: Well, you know I spent six days a week in
Speaker 3: church as a child, and then when school was out,
Speaker 3: I spent mornings, afternoons and evenings in church. On those
Speaker 3: six days provided this thing called vacation, Bible school, revivals
Speaker 3: with other churches, doctors, training, unit teachers, meetings, usher's meetings,
Speaker 3: fire rehearsal.
Speaker 1: I could go on and on.
Speaker 3: My mother was not just associated pastor, but you know,
Speaker 3: before that of deaconess and at the same time a trustee.
Speaker 3: So there was some function happening at our church every day,
Speaker 3: but on average six days a week I was there,
Speaker 3: And you know, I know a lot about the Word
Speaker 3: of God, the King James Bible most specifically, and Ram
Speaker 3: just said in our in our open that a lot
Speaker 3: of conservative right wing politicians use the Bible to justify
Speaker 3: their politics. I think they can use it more as
Speaker 3: a way to manipulate their constituents, right, because you have
Speaker 3: people like our former president, who we know is not
Speaker 3: a particularly decent human being, campaign on things that he
Speaker 3: knows will get a response from Christian evangelicals whether or
Speaker 3: not he believes it or not. You know, you see
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of claiming to be pro
Speaker 3: life politicians that are actually just anti abortion politicians because
Speaker 3: they know that there's a particular section of our population,
Speaker 3: Christian evangelicals most specifically, that are very very strong and
Speaker 3: very very locked in on their position on that topic.
Speaker 3: So even if they don't believe it themselves, and most
Speaker 3: of their actions show that they are not indeed Christians
Speaker 3: by example, even if they belong to a church, even
Speaker 3: if they were baptized, even if they do tote Bible.
Speaker 3: Their actions show that the words and teachings of Christ
Speaker 3: are not something they subscribe to. They just understand by
Speaker 3: using certain points and certain speaking points and really certain
Speaker 3: political positions, that they can get the right response at
Speaker 3: the polls from their constituency. It's not about holding up
Speaker 3: the tent poles of Christ and his teachings at all.
Speaker 2: I remember hearing a quote, it might be from Gandhi.
Speaker 2: Maybe he says, you know, I like your christ Gandhi
Speaker 2: is not a Christian, of course, was not a Christian
Speaker 2: from a whole different faith. But it says, I like
Speaker 2: your christ I don't like your Christians. They are so
Speaker 2: unlike your CHRISTO. And that wasn't specifically speaking to politics
Speaker 2: per se. But I think that there.
Speaker 1: Are a lot of.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say there's a lot of Christians
Speaker 2: that identify as conservative, but there are a lot of
Speaker 2: Conservatives that identify as Christian indeed right. And I think
Speaker 2: that that particular facet based on how they vote and
Speaker 2: the values that they espouse and the values that they
Speaker 2: choose to expouse.
Speaker 1: Because the fact is that.
Speaker 2: You can cherry different things from the Bible uh and
Speaker 2: make yourself look like a decent person. But I think
Speaker 2: that really it's what you ignore, what you cast aside,
Speaker 2: that really shows your level of commitment. You know, again,
Speaker 2: the things you espouse can be sort of manipulated, The
Speaker 2: optics can be manipulated. And so I don't want to
Speaker 2: I don't want to cast a negative light on you know,
Speaker 2: people trying to do their best. But what I think
Speaker 2: I want to do is illuminate the fact that not
Speaker 2: everybody really talks the talk and a lot of people's.
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people talk to talk. Well, not
Speaker 1: everybody walks walk the walk that seems to be missing
Speaker 1: right nowadays.
Speaker 2: And there and there's a breakdown there. So what brought
Speaker 2: this to our consciousness for this week is the video
Speaker 2: that you mentioned.
Speaker 1: So let's let's play this video.
Speaker 2: This comes from a gentleman by the name of John
Speaker 2: Google Sang and this was on MSNBC recently.
Speaker 4: So ahead and right wing fundamentalists and Christian nationalists who
Speaker 4: use Jesus, whose birth we celebrate, as a prop while
Speaker 4: legislating and fighting against his actual teachings. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of right wing brothers and sisters in this country who
Speaker 4: identify as Christian and they care about the major and
Speaker 4: the crucifix, and they ignore the thirty years of teaching,
Speaker 4: well actually three years of teaching he did in between.
Speaker 4: Jesus is not an ally of the Republican Party. There
Speaker 4: is no overlap between Jesus and the policies of Donald Trump.
Speaker 4: A South Carolina, they try to have a bill this
Speaker 4: year calling for the death penalty for abortion.
Speaker 1: Where so pro life will kill you. That's where we're
Speaker 1: at right now.
Speaker 4: I would kill for a nobelpe this week. Enrage these
Speaker 4: right wing Christians so much because he acted like Jesus
Speaker 4: in blessing gay unions. Jesus is not anti immigrant. He
Speaker 4: commands people to welcome the stranger. He never mentions abortion.
Speaker 4: The Bible never condemns abortion. We've had two generations of
Speaker 4: Christians in this country who have been gloomed to believe
Speaker 4: criminalizing abortion is something to do with what Jesus talked about.
Speaker 4: Christ was a peaceful, radical, non violent revolutionary. Never mentioned
Speaker 4: gay people. He commanded you to pay your taxes to
Speaker 4: welcome the stranger. Individuals and nations must care for the
Speaker 4: poor and sick. In Matthew twenty five, he who lives
Speaker 4: by the sword must die by the sword. Loops twenty two.
Speaker 4: There's a reason why these right wingers never try to
Speaker 4: put the sermon on the Mount on walls and classrooms
Speaker 4: read the Bible. Wow, yeah, he says, birthday, you're delivered.
Speaker 4: I said, I'm a child of a next noun in
Speaker 4: a next Francisco if you are. If you want to
Speaker 4: criminalize abortion and put people in jail because you're so
Speaker 4: Christian when Jesus never mentioned abortion, but you support the
Speaker 4: death penalty, which Christ actually opposed. The rest of us
Speaker 4: wrote the books. Yeah, if you support those things that
Speaker 4: the rest of us are the lives to take your
Speaker 4: claims of Christian piety seriously anymore. And the media it's
Speaker 4: the blame because the media loves the bad guy and
Speaker 4: has made the Ballwells and the Robertson's asked for what
Speaker 4: Christianity is for a generation. It's time to take the
Speaker 4: Bible back from the hypocrites and thoughts.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So you know you heard it, You heard it yourself,
Speaker 2: And I think that that really stands up to.
Speaker 1: What a lot of people have been pointing to.
Speaker 2: You know, on our social media, we've pointed to a
Speaker 2: lot in a way of Republican hypocrisy, and we've identified
Speaker 2: and delineated lots of examples. You know, Republicans legislators voting
Speaker 2: to not fund school lunches but to give themselves free lunches,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I believe that might have
Speaker 2: been in like Montana or Wyoming or someplace like that,
Speaker 2: maybe Idaho. Obviously we've talked about abortion, We've talked about
Speaker 2: you know, all these other sorts of things, and there
Speaker 2: are people who can make arguments for, oh, this was
Speaker 2: in the Old Testament, you know whatever, but Jesus was
Speaker 2: not in the Old Testament. Jesus was in the New Testament.
Speaker 2: So anything that people make arguments about, like homosexuality, those
Speaker 2: sorts of things, that's old Testaments. So in theory, the
Speaker 2: way that Christianity works is you have the Old Testament
Speaker 2: and that serves as the Old Covenant, the old set
Speaker 2: of promises, the old set of rules, and then there's
Speaker 2: the New Testament, and the Old Testament informs the New Testament.
Speaker 2: But the New Testament is the one that you should
Speaker 2: go by. That is why you are a Christian. If
Speaker 2: you were just going by the Old Testament, you would
Speaker 2: be Jewish. And people try to use different parts of
Speaker 2: the Bible that conflict with other parts of the Bible,
Speaker 2: but they'll only take this one vantage point because it
Speaker 2: serves an agenda for them. It helps prop up their worldview,
Speaker 2: It creates value in their immediate universe, their their frame
Speaker 2: of reference.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: As you mentioned, or as as the video mentioned, you know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of shortcomings there. There's there's some more
Speaker 2: that I want to take some time, and you know
Speaker 2: this first one I'm going to say, and I just
Speaker 2: want you to kind of figure out where this fits politically. Okay, Uh,
Speaker 2: there's a verse from Luke ten to nine. Funnily enough,
Speaker 2: we're reading from the Bible on this radio, so on
Speaker 2: these radio stations, because not all stations, you know. Anyway,
Speaker 2: this verse says, heal the sick who are there, and
Speaker 2: tell them the Kingdom of God has come near to you.
Speaker 2: So this is this goes against people who call universal
Speaker 2: health care socialism.
Speaker 1: Like so like that make socialism a pejorative term.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's a bad word, right, But I'm reading
Speaker 2: from often enough those same people Bible, right, and then
Speaker 2: they have to shift their argument somehow to say that
Speaker 2: it's not affordable, it's not sustainable, so farth so on,
Speaker 2: And the truth is we know that it is.
Speaker 1: We know that it is.
Speaker 2: This is the only country that is this developed that
Speaker 2: charges like you can go bankrupt for getting sick. If
Speaker 2: the government is going to do anything, it's going to
Speaker 2: make sure that the health of the population is okay.
Speaker 2: You know, deborders from being sick or die from being poor.
Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. Excellent.
Speaker 2: So again this is from the same people's Bible and
Speaker 2: asking them to reconcile that against their beliefs. They'll often
Speaker 2: have this kind of tactic where they kind of dodge
Speaker 2: the question or change the approach to the question. They'll
Speaker 2: they'll shift it around. But you know, if you are
Speaker 2: a Christian, as you profess to be, you know these
Speaker 2: people as they profess to be, you would imagine that
Speaker 2: these truths would be central to their moral compass. Not
Speaker 2: how much money is it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: We already know in this country we have plenty of money.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows that we're giving billions of dollars to fight wars.
Speaker 2: We don't even have nothing to do it. Right, let's
Speaker 2: move on this time. I'm going to read from Deuteronomy
Speaker 2: fifteen seven. If I'm not mistaken Deuteronomy as Old Testament.
Speaker 2: But you know, there are people who use the Old
Speaker 2: Testament too, right, So I'll do the same. If among
Speaker 2: you one of your brothers should become poor in any
Speaker 2: of your towns within your land that the Lord God
Speaker 2: has given you, you shall not harden your heart or
Speaker 2: shut your hand against your poor brother.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: So remember we had this conversation, maybe it might have
Speaker 2: been two weeks ago, Q, where we were talking about
Speaker 2: how there was a war on drugs and not a
Speaker 2: war on poverty. Do you think that if Jesus was around,
Speaker 2: he would have supported a war on drugs or a
Speaker 2: war on poverty.
Speaker 3: I think in the times of Christ it would not
Speaker 3: have been faring that way. In the first it wouldn't
Speaker 3: even right. He healed the sick there and would have
Speaker 3: treated a drug addict to someone who could not get
Speaker 3: off of their dependency on a drug to a point
Speaker 3: where the drug itself that was maybe designed to heal
Speaker 3: or help with some ailment, was killing them. He would
Speaker 3: have treated that person like a sick person and wanted
Speaker 3: to help them, sure, not criminalize them or other them
Speaker 3: and put them in a position where they're they're suffering
Speaker 3: at the hands of an addiction, made them a horrible person.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So there is my opinion. I think I
Speaker 1: think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's consistent with the person that we
Speaker 2: all know to be there, you know, to be this
Speaker 2: this figure. It's it's kind of the same as when
Speaker 2: you know, when Martin Luther King Junior Day rolls around
Speaker 2: every year and you'll see Republicans sharing quotes from doctor King,
Speaker 2: and the rest of us know exactly what Doctor King
Speaker 2: stood for, but they're co opting that image and selling it,
Speaker 2: rebranding it as some form of conservative values or whatever
Speaker 2: it is, and rebranding it to their followers and their supporters.
Speaker 2: And again, it's like rewriting the narrative. And this is
Speaker 2: something that's happened for black people consistently. You know, Elvis
Speaker 2: Presley is not the founder of rock and roll, you know,
Speaker 2: and you know this is a story that tells oldest
Speaker 2: time in this country. But you know, the powers would
Speaker 2: be the folks that are in a position to rewrite
Speaker 2: the narrative and chronicle it in such a way that
Speaker 2: it supports an agenda that does not reflect a shared reality.
Speaker 2: That's something that happens and we all need to know
Speaker 2: about this. Hints our discussion about how the Bible has
Speaker 2: historically been used, even going all the way back. You know,
Speaker 2: democrats are not exempt from condemnation.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: The Bible, as many people may or may not know,
Speaker 2: was used to justify the atrocities of slavery against black people, and.
Speaker 3: Long before the institution of chattel slavery brought itself to
Speaker 3: this continent. Religion in general, not just the King James Bible,
Speaker 3: has been used as a way to control and oppress
Speaker 3: those with less powerless resources, and less in the way
Speaker 3: to keep themselves from being manipulated by very often logical fallacies.
Speaker 3: You mentioned the red herring or the you know, the
Speaker 3: idea of just kind of changing the subject when brought
Speaker 3: to question on some of these very very straightforward verses
Speaker 3: from the Bible, you know, the straw man arguments that
Speaker 3: are used oftentimes in the debates that we let kind
Speaker 3: of open lies go even when they happen in front
Speaker 3: of us on television with the Mino saw it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it's you know, it's not just the Bible, it's
Speaker 3: not just Republicans, it's not just politicians, but speaking to
Speaker 3: Republicans in general, because they have kind of positioned themselves
Speaker 3: as the party of Evangelical Christians in this country. So
Speaker 3: that's the reason why they're kind of being called to
Speaker 3: the carpet, is because at the time they are using
Speaker 3: the Bible as a catapult to their political platform, even
Speaker 3: when its excuse me, has very little to do with
Speaker 3: the teachings of Christ.
Speaker 1: You know, there's something else here too, you know, just
Speaker 1: like these folks are kind of reworking the angles of
Speaker 1: the Bible to suit an agenda. If I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: I believe this is true. The reason that the King
Speaker 1: James Bible exists in the first place is because the
Speaker 1: original or the Bible that was widely used prior to
Speaker 1: the King James version, prohibited divorce. And it might have
Speaker 1: been King James or another king or something like that.
Speaker 1: They wanted to get a divorce, and so they commissioned
Speaker 1: a new Bible to be written or translated and to
Speaker 1: have that language massaged from the original. I think it
Speaker 1: might have been Hebrew text or something like that, to
Speaker 1: where it allowed for an interpretation that gave an access
Speaker 1: point for divorce. And this isn't I'm not just making
Speaker 1: that up. This is something that is that is factual.
Speaker 2: This is the basis of that version of the Bible,
Speaker 2: but the details might not be there, but the overarching
Speaker 2: kind of storyline that is factual.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 2: Just know that when people try to use these things
Speaker 2: kind of to stand on to kind of example their
Speaker 2: moral compass, even people that are really true to it,
Speaker 2: and they use the text word for word, they're simply
Speaker 2: using a different person's interpretation of the original text. One
Speaker 2: person that I on TikTok, his name might be like
Speaker 2: Dan McClellan or something like that. If you follow me
Speaker 2: on TikTok, he's one of the people I follow. So
Speaker 2: that's the best I can give you right now. But
Speaker 2: check him out. He is a biblical scholar, just like
Speaker 2: the person we just listened to, John Fugelsang. He's a
Speaker 2: biblical scholar, and he interprets the Bible from the original
Speaker 2: text and he gives historical context to what it is
Speaker 2: that people were doing and thinking and saying at the time.
Speaker 2: So he's a historian and a scholar and a person
Speaker 2: that has the original text information. And he is a
Speaker 2: fantastic TikToker to follow because he blows so much wide open,
Speaker 2: wide open, Because people only have an idea of what
Speaker 2: they think is happening, and this guy, as close as
Speaker 2: I've ever seen any human come to it. This guy
Speaker 2: actually knows full well because again he has content text.
Speaker 2: He knows what these symbols represented, and why these people
Speaker 2: talked about this certain type of bread in the body, you.
Speaker 1: Know, all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that I want for us
Speaker 2: all to take away from this is that it is
Speaker 2: important to maintain what the founding fathers wanted in this country,
Speaker 2: which is a separation of church and state. But with
Speaker 2: that said, it is okay to have personal beliefs and
Speaker 2: for those personal beliefs to be reflected in your politics.
Speaker 2: But in theory, religion is something that brings out the
Speaker 2: best of us, causes us to fellowship more and to
Speaker 2: be more charitable and more empathetic and understanding. And what
Speaker 2: we've seen in recent years is that one party in
Speaker 2: particular in this country is actually using religion to drive
Speaker 2: an even further wedge between who we are to each
Speaker 2: other and how we relate to each other. And they're
Speaker 2: doing it in the name of Christ, and that feels
Speaker 2: very unfair.