Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we talk with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. The new
Speaker 1: NBA season gets underway October two, and while all the
Speaker 1: attention will be on the games on TV, there's also
Speaker 1: many other different ways to engage with the league across
Speaker 1: other platforms, from social media to VR and how the
Speaker 1: NBA innovates is the mandate for my next guest, Jeff Marsilio,
Speaker 1: Senior VP of New Media to the League. Thanks for
Speaker 1: coming in, Jeff, thanks for having me. Well, uh, I
Speaker 1: think when you take that this is two of my
Speaker 1: favorite things. Are gonna be talking about both the NBA
Speaker 1: and media innovation. There's no way I'm not going to
Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation, I hope. So I'm actually curious to
Speaker 1: start with what the league thinks of what you do.
Speaker 1: Is this something that it's sort of like, Okay, these
Speaker 1: are a little experimental one offs. Let's hope everything works okay,
Speaker 1: or is it no? This is crucial the future. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe let me start with describing what I'm responsible for. Um,
Speaker 1: I lead the New Media Group, as you said, which
Speaker 1: is responsible for the digital licensing business of the NBA,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty wide ranging. It includes, as you said,
Speaker 1: it includes social media, it includes um making highlights available,
Speaker 1: but it also includes making games available, UM in in
Speaker 1: the digital space, and it includes more emerging technology. So
Speaker 1: it's not just about innovation. Innovation is a huge part
Speaker 1: of it, especially because it's a space that's constantly innovating
Speaker 1: and we've got to keep up with it. But it's
Speaker 1: also a pretty big business for us, So UM it's
Speaker 1: look looked at as a whole. I think today it's
Speaker 1: it's big business relative to more traditional linear media. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not maybe that big, but it's it's really
Speaker 1: rapidly growing, one of our fastest growing areas, and we
Speaker 1: recognize given that growth, given the trajectory, that it's going
Speaker 1: to be really really important for the future. So the
Speaker 1: innovation that we are doing in this space is really
Speaker 1: important for the long term health of the league. And
Speaker 1: you were also innovating on the air. I mean, one
Speaker 1: of the things that I think has been done that
Speaker 1: was so interesting a number of different ways, uh in
Speaker 1: this past season was the typical broadcast experience. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got your play by play and your color guy,
Speaker 1: and uh, you really shook that up a little. Was
Speaker 1: that something that was a big priority. It's it's a continuing,
Speaker 1: really big priority and one that has um come from
Speaker 1: an insight. I think that came from Adam and that
Speaker 1: is that Adam Silver, the commissioner of the NBA. And
Speaker 1: you know, we we've had um the relatively similar broadcast
Speaker 1: for decades. Uh you know. Sure, of course, when uh
Speaker 1: TVs went to color, we went to color, and when
Speaker 1: they went to high definition, we went to we went
Speaker 1: to high definition. But the the broadcast, the shape of
Speaker 1: the broadcast, the format has stayed relatively consistent throughout that period.
Speaker 1: Been a while, the technology around it and the fan
Speaker 1: behavior around it has rapidly evolved. So we began taking
Speaker 1: a fresh look at the presentation of the game and
Speaker 1: realize that there's still there's a lot that we could do. Now.
Speaker 1: We want to maintain some sense of that familiar broadcast,
Speaker 1: but we think we can also introduce some some new
Speaker 1: ideas that like, give me an example of one of
Speaker 1: the things you did this past season. Well, you know what,
Speaker 1: one of the areas that we've been focused on innovating
Speaker 1: is the is the the audio, the commentary. And you know,
Speaker 1: I I UM, I think if you've watched NBA games,
Speaker 1: you've got this incredible commentary of these experts who are
Speaker 1: providing play by playing color throughout every single game games
Speaker 1: a season. But um, you know, not everybody wants to
Speaker 1: engage with the game the same way. You might be,
Speaker 1: for example, a really deep fantasy player or or somebody
Speaker 1: who's really interested in analytics. Watching the typical broadcast, you
Speaker 1: won't get a real deep analysis from that point of view. So, UM,
Speaker 1: those kinds of things we've begun to experiment with providing
Speaker 1: alternative audio um from a variety of different perspectives. And
Speaker 1: I would imagine part of that is you want to
Speaker 1: bring in new voices that bring in new viewers or
Speaker 1: younger viewers. Isn't that really the challenge across all the
Speaker 1: platforms you're working on. It's about how does a new
Speaker 1: generation of NBA fan who didn't necessarily grow up on
Speaker 1: TV stay engaged with the product. That's a big part
Speaker 1: of it. Um. You know, one of the things I
Speaker 1: think the fan base has come to expect is choice. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, because they have so much choice in their entertainment. Um,
Speaker 1: they have so many different platforms to choose from, which
Speaker 1: have many different competitive advantages among them, so they come
Speaker 1: to expect choice, and I think it's a mistake to
Speaker 1: not provide that kind of choice. So choice whether it's
Speaker 1: in the presentation of the game, the audio broadcast and
Speaker 1: other things like that as we talked about, or in
Speaker 1: the ways that they can be, the places they can
Speaker 1: watch it, whether they can watch it on their phone
Speaker 1: or they can watch it on their connected device so
Speaker 1: they can watch it on linear television. And in the
Speaker 1: the ways they transact with us. They a cable subscriber, great,
Speaker 1: if they're not, then maybe they want to subscribe to
Speaker 1: something like Leak Pass. And then within League Pass, we've
Speaker 1: innovated um in in in choice around transacting with us
Speaker 1: as well. So you've got now the ability to purchase
Speaker 1: a single game, and you've have ability to purchase the
Speaker 1: game by quarters. So choice has become a really important theme.
Speaker 1: And uh it is for the purpose of reaching more
Speaker 1: fans and giving fans more options so that they have
Speaker 1: fewer reasons not to watch the game. And we should
Speaker 1: explain League passes this digital get every game you possibly
Speaker 1: could want, every day of the season feature that has
Speaker 1: always been a little rich for my blood. But when
Speaker 1: you start talking about this flexible pricing which you just
Speaker 1: started with last year, what has been the results of
Speaker 1: that early experimentation. Well, you know, last year we introduced
Speaker 1: a whole new layer of choice, as you just said,
Speaker 1: and especially those quarterly options. But we've been experimenting with
Speaker 1: choice throughout the history of Leak Pass and it began
Speaker 1: with uh, that kind of all you can eat, full, complete,
Speaker 1: comprehensive option. But then we introduced things like a team option,
Speaker 1: so you could choose to just follow your team. I
Speaker 1: should say that in the United States, the local games
Speaker 1: are blacked out. Those aren't available to watch if you're
Speaker 1: if you're in l A, you're not going to get
Speaker 1: um clip Clippers games. Uh. Within leak Past, you can
Speaker 1: watch them on your on your local R S N.
Speaker 1: But um, but we've over time we found that writing
Speaker 1: more option was really only additive. There there's always a
Speaker 1: question you have to ask, sort of a strategic question.
Speaker 1: If we provide this optionality, are people are gonna fewer
Speaker 1: people going to subscribe to the big package and just
Speaker 1: start you know, uh, purchasing quarters And it doesn't end
Speaker 1: up being that that's the case, that surprises me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really. Um, it doesn't surprise me because it
Speaker 1: has a totally different value proposition. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: the the smaller packages like a quarter or an individual
Speaker 1: game end up serving as great sampling opportunities. Uh. So
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who might um just purchase a single
Speaker 1: game ends up being a great candidate for us to
Speaker 1: market the full package. So so optionality ends up being additive. Um,
Speaker 1: we have to I think we have to ask ourselves
Speaker 1: that question and look at that data every time. But
Speaker 1: so far, so good on that front, it's been it's
Speaker 1: been additive for us. And another thing that I think
Speaker 1: there's been some experimentation on, I forget it was within
Speaker 1: League past Or is different camera angles and allowing viewers
Speaker 1: to control that. M Are we going to see more
Speaker 1: of that in this coming season? Well? You know, one
Speaker 1: of the I think, just to kind of provide a
Speaker 1: specific example that I thought was really cool that goes
Speaker 1: kind of even beyond just alternate camera angles with Summer
Speaker 1: League this year, which is a a tournament that we
Speaker 1: that is based in Los Angeles where in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: excuse me, las of Las Vegas. I'm in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas where some of the newer, younger players compete,
Speaker 1: and we do a lot of experimentation around Summer League
Speaker 1: and UM together with our partner Turn Sports, we UM
Speaker 1: shot a whole game live using phones and and five
Speaker 1: g um. So it was and it was really cool perspective.
Speaker 1: It was not only was it alternate camera angles, but
Speaker 1: because of the nature of you know, shooting and watching
Speaker 1: on a on a phone, it just kind of felt
Speaker 1: like this guerrilla broadcast. UM. So we've been experimenting a
Speaker 1: lot with alternate camera angles and and alternate ways to
Speaker 1: provide that sense of access and immersion around the game.
Speaker 1: I think that's going to continue that. I know that
Speaker 1: will absolutely continue throughout throughout the season. UM nothing specific
Speaker 1: to announce, but we're still in exploration and experimentation mode.
Speaker 1: But with with our direct to consumer products, you'll absolutely
Speaker 1: see more around the alternate audio and more around providing
Speaker 1: interactive features like graphical overlays, and will continue to experiment
Speaker 1: with things like alternate camera angles. Like like you said,
Speaker 1: and there's a part of me that loves to experiment
Speaker 1: that stuff. There's also a part of me that I
Speaker 1: think I speak for a lot of people that are
Speaker 1: kind of lazy and just want to have the whole
Speaker 1: thing presented as opposed to making me sort of the
Speaker 1: guy in the in the book, I don't think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think in most cases it's great to have the
Speaker 1: optionality for for those kind of super duper fans who
Speaker 1: are not lazy and who want to engage and almost
Speaker 1: provide their own production of of a live game. But
Speaker 1: most people are like you and like me, want to
Speaker 1: lean back and have that kind of experience. So um,
Speaker 1: I think the foundational experience has to be this wonderfully produced,
Speaker 1: delivered kind of experience, and that's that's what we'll be
Speaker 1: focusing on. Optionality happens, and interactivity happens around around that,
Speaker 1: and maybe that one person wants to interact with stats
Speaker 1: and we'll try to have that feature, and then somebody
Speaker 1: else wants to interact with getting more of those, um
Speaker 1: those different kinds of camera angles, and maybe that just
Speaker 1: having those options for different people bring them in and
Speaker 1: they interact with the game in different ways. One of
Speaker 1: the things that and then over time, by the way,
Speaker 1: as we learn more about our fans and the way
Speaker 1: they engage with it, it might be possible to provide
Speaker 1: these more custom experiences on an automated basis. That's still
Speaker 1: a little ways out, but it could be a more
Speaker 1: personalized broadcast cast based on your preferences as we learned
Speaker 1: about you. But one of the interesting balancing acts that
Speaker 1: we have to perform is between mean, this idea of
Speaker 1: customization and personalization that we're talking about and feeling like
Speaker 1: what what is so important to two fans is feeling
Speaker 1: like you have a shared experience, like we're watching the
Speaker 1: same game. Uh, you know. It's one of the things
Speaker 1: I think that makes sports so different is that, um,
Speaker 1: whether you're watching it in the same room together, or
Speaker 1: whether you're chatting with your friends on Twitter, or whether
Speaker 1: you're just talking about it the next day around the
Speaker 1: water cooler, there's a kind of network effect to the
Speaker 1: fact that we're all fans together. We enjoy the game
Speaker 1: more because we know people who are also enjoying the game,
Speaker 1: and you can't disrupt that. You have to be careful
Speaker 1: not to create an experience that's so personalized that when
Speaker 1: you get when you get to the water cooler, you're
Speaker 1: talking about two different experiences. You still want it to be,
Speaker 1: at its at its foundation, a very social experience. It's
Speaker 1: interesting to think about that sort of collective experience. Thinking
Speaker 1: back to trying NBA virtual reality, which you think virtual reality, Oh,
Speaker 1: you put the helmet on, it's isolating. But the interesting
Speaker 1: thing about the applications that I tried was in some
Speaker 1: instances you could communicate with fellow VR watchers down to
Speaker 1: the point where it was rendered as avatars watching the
Speaker 1: game together. First of all, First of all, I love
Speaker 1: that you are super fun enough to have seen all
Speaker 1: these different kinds of broadcast. Um, this is one of
Speaker 1: my favorites. What you're what you're describing, it's and we'll
Speaker 1: do it again this season on. We produce games in
Speaker 1: virtual reality every week with next company called Next VR.
Speaker 1: We also, together with Turner, produced games with Intel in
Speaker 1: virtual reality, and they each bring a kind of a
Speaker 1: different experience to the table, very immersive and conveying that
Speaker 1: that what's happening inside the arena is one of the
Speaker 1: other pillars of innovation for us. You know, the the
Speaker 1: NBA experience is an immersive one. Right before there was
Speaker 1: ever an immersive UH media company, we were creating immersive
Speaker 1: media experiences in arena for those who could who could
Speaker 1: get to arenas. But you've got fans all over the
Speaker 1: world for with the NBA um WE broadcasts and over
Speaker 1: two hundred countries who may never have the opportunity for
Speaker 1: logistical reasons to go experience that unadulterated in arena experience.
Speaker 1: So virtual reality has I think tremendous promise to deliver
Speaker 1: more of that sensory information. But the more traditional to
Speaker 1: even call it traditional and VR is funny, but the
Speaker 1: more traditional VR broadcasts have felt more isolating. So we
Speaker 1: brought the next VR produced immersive experience to something called
Speaker 1: Oculus Venues. Oculus is one of the pre eminent VR
Speaker 1: companies in space, owned by own by Facebook and with venues,
Speaker 1: as you said, you you get to sit in a
Speaker 1: in a virtual arena surrounded by avatars and it'll um
Speaker 1: using the Facebook social graph. It'll sit you near your
Speaker 1: friends if they're watching it at the same time, and
Speaker 1: you can move around. You can you know, move between seats,
Speaker 1: and you can look at each other, and you can
Speaker 1: talk to each other, and you can gesticulate and um,
Speaker 1: you don't it doesn't look like you're sitting next to
Speaker 1: your friend, but emotionally it feels like you're sitting next
Speaker 1: to your friend. I think that's the important thing. So
Speaker 1: now we get to have the immersive experience being an arena.
Speaker 1: We're not a hundred percent of the way there. I
Speaker 1: don't even know we're sixty percent of the way there,
Speaker 1: but we're making great progress on that and have that
Speaker 1: social experience of being in the arena with your friends.
Speaker 1: So um the early days, I think, but it's a
Speaker 1: really compelling experience today and people are more and more
Speaker 1: people are trying it and enjoying it, and I think
Speaker 1: the future of the NBA broadcast will include something like this.
Speaker 1: That's how so I mean when you say meaning back
Speaker 1: on the traditional TV version, that it will have something
Speaker 1: like that, or that VR becomes the trade I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know that VR becomes the traditional, uh, the
Speaker 1: traditional way to view, but I think it'll be a
Speaker 1: really important way to view in the future. I will
Speaker 1: make this prediction, which is in the long term, I
Speaker 1: definitely could see a time when when VR displays his
Speaker 1: TV as the way to experience sports. Because another big
Speaker 1: takeaway for me watching the NBA and VR was even
Speaker 1: though the resolution is when I was watching on Oculus,
Speaker 1: it's not good. It's not going to be there for
Speaker 1: a while. When you're used to watching HD on. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: the angles and the three dimensionality of it, it blew
Speaker 1: my mind and it's why I will not gonna watch.
Speaker 1: I mean, not every game is available in VR, but
Speaker 1: tim time to time I do make a point of
Speaker 1: watching it just because, even though it's not quite achieved
Speaker 1: its potential, it's far along enough where I'm kind of captive.
Speaker 1: I I look, I completely agree, and I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a huge believer and a huge fan of immersive media.
Speaker 1: I only hesitate to say that it will be the
Speaker 1: traditional way to watch because I think that that optionality
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier is going to be even
Speaker 1: more important in the future. And it may be that
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to necessarily immerse yourself, even
Speaker 1: if you can access your phone in VR, or your
Speaker 1: or your apps and VR, even if you can access
Speaker 1: your friends. It maybe that you just don't want to
Speaker 1: put a whole headset on wherever you are. You might be, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you might be in your living room with
Speaker 1: your family and you want to just put it on
Speaker 1: a big screen. You might you might be walking around
Speaker 1: and want to have it on your mobile phone. I
Speaker 1: think in the future, um, the broadcast will be incredibly
Speaker 1: flexible and uh, you'll just have a variety of ways
Speaker 1: to watch it from totally immersed, too much less immersed
Speaker 1: but very mobile. Well, then there's a we've talked about VR.
Speaker 1: Then there's a R or mixed reality or spatial computing
Speaker 1: one at a time. My god, well, I was very curious. Uh.
Speaker 1: I think it was about a year ago when NBA
Speaker 1: started talking about Magic Leap in the partnership there. I've
Speaker 1: not tried that. What can we expect from that? How
Speaker 1: far along is that? Either? Well, the technology that magically
Speaker 1: has is incredible, um, and I recommend you give it
Speaker 1: a shot. But for those who haven't tried it, you
Speaker 1: put a headset on it's it's it's lighter and less
Speaker 1: intrusive than a full VR headset, and you still see
Speaker 1: the real world outside of the glasses. It's like putting
Speaker 1: on a pair of goggles. Um. But it using some
Speaker 1: pretty pretty advanced technology, allows you to see digital information,
Speaker 1: digital assets in the real world that aren't really there.
Speaker 1: So what it means for basketball is that as it is,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things. Um, I think look at
Speaker 1: the the ultimate version of that is something like virtual reality,
Speaker 1: where part of the room that you're in is replaced
Speaker 1: within immersive experience of watching the game. It might be
Speaker 1: that um, the living room wall across from the couch
Speaker 1: disappears and is replaced with courtside at the garden. UM
Speaker 1: Another a little bit further, a little bit you know,
Speaker 1: far out version UM is the tabletop experience of watching
Speaker 1: the game. So imagine you're sitting on that caution in
Speaker 1: your living room and on top of your coffee table
Speaker 1: is a kind of a miniature arena that you're looking
Speaker 1: into like you're a giant floating floating above it, like
Speaker 1: a hologram exactly like you like you see in Star Wars.
Speaker 1: And this is possible not only with the kind of
Speaker 1: technology that Magically was creating, but with a capture technology
Speaker 1: called volumetric capture h This is where there's a variety
Speaker 1: of ways to do it, but basically, there are camera
Speaker 1: sensors position around the arena and they capture the volume
Speaker 1: of the arena. They calculate where each pixel is in
Speaker 1: three dimensional space, and and and they capture the volume
Speaker 1: of the arena so that you can move a imagine
Speaker 1: a virtual camera or a virtual perspective anywhere in that
Speaker 1: volume and watch from anywhere. That means you could using VR,
Speaker 1: you could attach a virtual camera to your favorite players eyes.
Speaker 1: You said you're a Clippers fan, right, So imagine watching
Speaker 1: the game play out from Kauai's point of view. Um
Speaker 1: or you can do as I said and you can
Speaker 1: move back and you can watch it like a hologram
Speaker 1: on a table. Is advanced and sci fi, as this
Speaker 1: technology sounds, uh, it's actually something that we're already experimenting with.
Speaker 1: Intel has a version of this technology that is designed
Speaker 1: specifically for arenas that we've begun installing in some of
Speaker 1: the NBA arenas, and we can try we can do
Speaker 1: this experience what we're talking about on a non live basis, Uh,
Speaker 1: not yet at the super high definition resolution that we
Speaker 1: would need, but we can see the path toward when
Speaker 1: this is live and when this is HD. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of where mixed reality, spatial reality, spatial computing things
Speaker 1: like magically I think end up going. But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: it's the there's a lot of really cool things you
Speaker 1: can do with it. With our current app, you can
Speaker 1: put virtual screens as big as you want on any
Speaker 1: of the walls in your room, multiple screens if you
Speaker 1: like and watch the game or highlights UM play out
Speaker 1: there with three dimensional UH stats visualizations jumping out at you.
Speaker 1: And one of the cool things that we've we've played
Speaker 1: with is a sort of a CG representation of a
Speaker 1: player on the coffee table. UH. And in this case
Speaker 1: last season it was it was Lebron uh just running
Speaker 1: down the court and dunking the ball. But it was like,
Speaker 1: this is what this is what the future of highlights
Speaker 1: might look like. They'll be spatial and you'll be able
Speaker 1: to look around them, UM as though they were a
Speaker 1: hologram in the room with you. And how cool would
Speaker 1: it be if it would also be life size, because
Speaker 1: I think that could be something where have the ability
Speaker 1: to not just see them in three dimensions, but to
Speaker 1: see them at their actual height. Is that that's even contemplated.
Speaker 1: It just kind of occurred to me. Now it's like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe why not. It's a great it's a great use case,
Speaker 1: especially because our players are so physically imposing and impressive.
Speaker 1: And it turns out it's actually no more difficult to
Speaker 1: do it large than it is to do it small. UM.
Speaker 1: You don't with the field of view of the current systems,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be able to take the full player in
Speaker 1: from a close distance. You'd have to kind of start
Speaker 1: us at at his feet and go up and look
Speaker 1: towards the ceiling to see his head um. But that
Speaker 1: field of view is something that's going to improve as well.
Speaker 1: And if you step back and you wanted to see
Speaker 1: a life size player a little bit across the room,
Speaker 1: that that fit in the field of view, you can
Speaker 1: absolutely do that and it's no more difficult than than
Speaker 1: capturing them at a at a smaller scale, well a
Speaker 1: nearer term a R application. I had the pleasure because
Speaker 1: I'm a Clipper fan of witnessing this past season. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw the Clippers court vision with
Speaker 1: the company called Second Spectrum, right, I mean, just to
Speaker 1: give people an idea, that's where you're watching the usual game,
Speaker 1: perhaps on your phone, and there's an a R layer
Speaker 1: of graphics and stats that are pretty seamless, pretty real
Speaker 1: time in terms of data coming in. Is that something
Speaker 1: we're going to see more of around the league? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's that's something that the Clippers did in partnership
Speaker 1: with a company called Seconds Spectrum, and they are one
Speaker 1: of the um stats providers or information gatherers for the league,
Speaker 1: and they use UM technology that tracks the players on
Speaker 1: the court. And there are lots of different ways that
Speaker 1: you can use it. UM. We use it in some
Speaker 1: ways to UM to understand player performance and things like that,
Speaker 1: but it can be used for consumer purposes to a
Speaker 1: like like the one that you described. It's Uh, I
Speaker 1: think it's really really neat. I think it's especially cool
Speaker 1: UM for v O D just to understand a play
Speaker 1: in a different way, to to rewatch a play and
Speaker 1: see for example, UM one of the one of the
Speaker 1: use cases that they have is it shows the percentage
Speaker 1: likelihood of any given player from any given part of
Speaker 1: the court to make a basket when they have the ball.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's just a neat kind of like because
Speaker 1: you understand the decisions that the players make as they're
Speaker 1: making them from a different point of view. You understand
Speaker 1: because they're making I think some of those calculations in
Speaker 1: their head, Am I am I likely to hit the
Speaker 1: shot from this point of view defended by this player. UM.
Speaker 1: So you can kind of make those you can see
Speaker 1: that in in real time with these overlays, and UH
Speaker 1: so absolutely we're going to continue to experimental graphical overlays.
Speaker 1: We'll see a lot more of that this season. It's
Speaker 1: one of the neat things too. I think about the
Speaker 1: way we're structured as a league that our our teams
Speaker 1: can be laboratories for experimentation, likeli Clippers, who've been really
Speaker 1: experimental in this area, and if something works, we can
Speaker 1: then take that and try to apply it across the league.
Speaker 1: It's just an example of innovation working from from teams
Speaker 1: back to the league. Is on the flip side, though,
Speaker 1: is there ever tension there where you know, a team
Speaker 1: can sort of take ownership of something in a way
Speaker 1: that the league can't, or they do their own thing.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't think of an example where, um,
Speaker 1: a team took ownership of something and and it prevented
Speaker 1: us from doing anything that we wanted to do. Um,
Speaker 1: So I think it's usually something that's positive. There are,
Speaker 1: you know, some some limits on what the teams can
Speaker 1: do relatives to what the league can do, but they're
Speaker 1: pretty well delineated and so it doesn't it doesn't result
Speaker 1: in too much tension that often. What what I find
Speaker 1: is the most sort of team centric experience across all
Speaker 1: the different platforms that we're talking about is social media.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so interesting to me following a number
Speaker 1: of teams on social media how they all have this
Speaker 1: very built out video rich three sixty five um experience. Um.
Speaker 1: Does the NBA itself feel like it has its own
Speaker 1: social identity or is it really about the teams and
Speaker 1: the players doing their own thing? You know. One of
Speaker 1: the unique things about a sports league within as compared
Speaker 1: to other entertainment, is the extent to which it's an
Speaker 1: ecosystem that is bigger than anyone company, including bigger than
Speaker 1: the NBA itself as a company. UM. It goes to
Speaker 1: the thirty teams, but it goes to the you know,
Speaker 1: four hundred plus players, It goes to our many dozens
Speaker 1: of partners around the world, and uh many hundreds of
Speaker 1: companies that create and innovate content around NBA that we
Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a direct contractual relationship, and then beyond
Speaker 1: that to the thousands and millions of fans who are
Speaker 1: creating and sharing content around the world. UM. By and large,
Speaker 1: that makes us a much more i think robust business
Speaker 1: and a more a more valuable ecosystem for any one
Speaker 1: of us to be a part of. So it's generally
Speaker 1: it's great, but we have to UM understand where we
Speaker 1: can fit into that because we're not only are we
Speaker 1: competing with other entertainment, but in a sense, we're competing
Speaker 1: with other companies who are creating NBA basketball content just
Speaker 1: like we are. It's important, therefore, to have an identity,
Speaker 1: and I think we've been successful in defining and defining
Speaker 1: what that is. I think we're still honing that to
Speaker 1: some extent, but we've been very successful on social media.
Speaker 1: The n b a UM official accounts that we control
Speaker 1: are some of the top accounts on on every social
Speaker 1: platform UM, and our our teams and players have been
Speaker 1: Our players, for example, are some of the top individual accounts,
Speaker 1: and our teams are some of the top accounts as well.
Speaker 1: So it hasn't because their success has not prevented us
Speaker 1: from being successful. I think in many ways it's contributed.
Speaker 1: We've all contributed to each other's success by by creating
Speaker 1: a bigger ecosystem. But thinking about our identity in the
Speaker 1: social space, it's like any business. You think about it
Speaker 1: in terms of competitive advantage. What are the things that
Speaker 1: we can do better than others can do? UM Immediately
Speaker 1: you go to that we are the official, we have
Speaker 1: the official voice, and in some in some context it's
Speaker 1: really important and really valuable, and in gambling, for example,
Speaker 1: having the official stats is extremely valuable. We're also probably
Speaker 1: the most comprehensive because we have we're the only ones
Speaker 1: who have the vault that has all NBA content UH
Speaker 1: within it. And I think maybe most importantly in one
Speaker 1: that we leverage a lot in in the social space
Speaker 1: is that we can be the most real time and
Speaker 1: have the most access so um, you know, we're we're
Speaker 1: all over the building when it comes to a live
Speaker 1: game in arena, and we can make our fans who
Speaker 1: follow us on social media feel like they have an
Speaker 1: all access credential, so that that becomes that kind of
Speaker 1: real time access um and those other things become the
Speaker 1: kind of uh foundation of our identity and social and
Speaker 1: it's worked out really well for us. And also in
Speaker 1: terms of how you as the NBA relate to social
Speaker 1: it does seem in contrast to some other leagues. We
Speaker 1: won't mention that may have been a little too controlling,
Speaker 1: that you guys have just sort of let the player,
Speaker 1: let fans players whoever have free reign with video out there,
Speaker 1: whether it's gifts or whatnot. You know, a year or
Speaker 1: two into that has that worked, there have been pitfalls
Speaker 1: by giving perhaps too much freedom. Well, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a conscientious decision and one that we made really from
Speaker 1: the beginning of social media. So it goes back. I
Speaker 1: think we've embraced it more fully even and and gone
Speaker 1: beyond permitting and actually gone to empowering fans to create content.
Speaker 1: But from the beginning of social of our presence on
Speaker 1: social media, we made a decision. This is a decision
Speaker 1: that that Adam made and his role at the time
Speaker 1: as head of NBA Entertainment to embrace uh fans creating content.
Speaker 1: I mean, the you know, from his point of view
Speaker 1: is why would we prevent people from creating free, free
Speaker 1: marketing content, right? Um, you know, and if it's something,
Speaker 1: if they can create content that it becomes a substitute
Speaker 1: for something that we could do, then we need to
Speaker 1: be looking for other things that we could do that
Speaker 1: others can't substitute. Um. But I think it goes even
Speaker 1: even more fundamentally to this idea of of an ecosystem
Speaker 1: where the more participants in the ecosystem. It's really it's
Speaker 1: like network theory, right, every additional note that you have
Speaker 1: in the network, and the stronger the connections between the nodes,
Speaker 1: the more valuable the note is for every participant in
Speaker 1: that network. So we're like a social network in that way,
Speaker 1: and um it, as long as we can figure out
Speaker 1: ways to contribute value that's unique and extract value at
Speaker 1: the same time than having a bigger, more robust, more
Speaker 1: valuable network by having by allowing fans and others to
Speaker 1: participate directly by creating content is just a win win
Speaker 1: for everybody. Speaking of social networks and curious about the
Speaker 1: league's relationship with the Facebook snapchats of the world, I
Speaker 1: would imagine the TikTok deal must be in the thing
Speaker 1: we've We've got one already. Cool. Well, but you know,
Speaker 1: there's always been somewhat of a tension there in terms
Speaker 1: of leverage um attention there in terms of how am
Speaker 1: I making money? I know the platforms are, do you
Speaker 1: guys have some sort of overall philosophy as you choose
Speaker 1: you know, how you might participate saying, you know, video
Speaker 1: for Facebook Watch or perhaps their their new subscription video platform.
Speaker 1: I you know, I wouldn't describe it as attention and
Speaker 1: I would say that because we've been early with the
Speaker 1: social media platforms and early UM and we continue to
Speaker 1: be early. So when when musically, when tiknok was musically
Speaker 1: and that was new, we were you know, we were
Speaker 1: there and we were I think the number one brand there.
Speaker 1: I think we maybe still still are the number one
Speaker 1: brand UM because we were early and because we evolved
Speaker 1: our presence on social media together with the evolution of
Speaker 1: the social media companies. I think we've got really great,
Speaker 1: strong relationships and we've seen that they are look that
Speaker 1: it's it's in their interest to figure out how all
Speaker 1: of this makes money for them. In the meantime, it's
Speaker 1: great for our fans, it's great for the reasons we
Speaker 1: talked about and creating a more valuable ecosystem, and it's
Speaker 1: great for marketing and UM. We it seems like every
Speaker 1: year they're figuring out better and better ways to make
Speaker 1: that turn that that value into monetary value that we
Speaker 1: can participate in. So, you know, I think by being
Speaker 1: early and being uh close partners with them, we've been
Speaker 1: able to take that journey with them, and I think
Speaker 1: we're all confident that we're trying to get to the
Speaker 1: same place which is just great experiences for their users
Speaker 1: and our fans, and ways to turn that into business
Speaker 1: opportunities for us. Well. Speaking of business opportunities, one last question,
Speaker 1: what maybe the biggest opportunity of all you mentioned earlier?
Speaker 1: Gambling supports legalization. Legalization of gambling is slowly starting to
Speaker 1: become like maybe in a dozen or so states now legal.
Speaker 1: I see this as a tsunami that is eventually going
Speaker 1: to hit fifty states, and I think it's already somewhat
Speaker 1: active internationally. Uh, that's got to be a game changer
Speaker 1: for the NBA digital strategy. I would imagine, Well, look,
Speaker 1: I think it's um. It's hard to predict the timing
Speaker 1: of it, and and it may roll out slowly enough
Speaker 1: where it's it's really big before we realize that it's
Speaker 1: really big, because we're in a pot of boiling water, right, UM.
Speaker 1: But it's certainly um could be really impactful for UM
Speaker 1: the way people engage with our content on on digital
Speaker 1: and the way that people watch our live games. So
Speaker 1: it's something that we watch really closely. I think it's
Speaker 1: actually a really good example of what I think of
Speaker 1: as kind of twin pillars of of of Adam's focus
Speaker 1: as he's led the NBA over the last last six
Speaker 1: years or so, five or five or six years, and
Speaker 1: and those are innovation, which where where we started with
Speaker 1: this conversation, and integrity, which is making sure that um
Speaker 1: we are shepherd ng responsibly shepherding the sport and that
Speaker 1: everybody feels like there's transparency around the rules and that
Speaker 1: the competition is fair. That's just been a really really
Speaker 1: strong theme throughout his his tenure as commissioner. And these
Speaker 1: both of these issues come up in this space with
Speaker 1: with gambling, and I think that's the balance that we've
Speaker 1: been trying to strike. We want to embrace innovation in
Speaker 1: this space, but we also want to make sure that
Speaker 1: at all times we've protected we've protected the integrity of
Speaker 1: the game. That's probably gonna be our role. Our role,
Speaker 1: if we're gonna have a direct role in this as
Speaker 1: this rolls out, is to be the shepherds of the
Speaker 1: integrity of it um as innovation takes place. But I
Speaker 1: think that the benefits that we end up seeing as
Speaker 1: there's just gonna be more reasons for people to watch
Speaker 1: games more ways and for them to engage with our content, well,
Speaker 1: it'll be just one of the many fronts. I'll be
Speaker 1: watching as the new season on folds. Looking forward to
Speaker 1: all the experimentation you're doing, and thanks for coming on
Speaker 1: the podcast. Thanks for being a fanom This has been
Speaker 1: another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next week for
Speaker 1: another helping a scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers,
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