1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: writer and I'm Steve Drissen. Today's story is about a 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: group of innocent Irish men known as the Birmingham Six. 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: They were accused of planting bombs inside two pubs in Birmingham, 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: England in nineteen seventy two, and they were tortured into 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: giving false confessions. All six men were freed in nineteen 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: ninety one, but the crime's never been solved. The public 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: is still demanding answers today about who really planted those bombs. Steve. 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: When we went on our speaking tour last year for 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: Making a Murderer, one of my favorite places we visited 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: was Belfast in Northern Ireland. 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one of the highlights of our travels. 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 2: It was almost like coming home, coming to a place 14 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: which understood the work I've been doing for most of 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: my professional life. 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something about false confessions that really resonated 17 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: with that audience. 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: It's a lived experience and it goes back to the 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: way in which the Birmingham Six were treated by law enforcement. 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: Well, okay, so here's the thing, right. The Birmingham Six 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: was a case that arose from the fact that two 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: pubs in Birmingham, England were bombed. It was one of 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: the biggest mass murders to happen on British soil after 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: World War Two. I mean, this is like the Oklahoma 25 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: City bombing here in the United States. And the blame 26 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 1: for this crime was placed on these six Irish guys 27 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: who were living in England but who had deep roots 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: in Belfast. The injustice of what happened to these guys 29 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: is like almost nothing I've seen before. 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, a profound experience of police abuses and of torture 31 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 2: in the interrogation rooms. 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: Their story resonates for so many people in Northern Ireland 33 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: because the whole place has this incredible history of conflict 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: and struggle against power. I actually think that history is 35 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: what brought so many people out last year to our talk. 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: You know, I'd like to believe they came to see 37 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: you and me, but they were probably there to hear 38 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: about injustice and how to fight it. And that's a 39 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: little bit better of a reason. I think our story 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: today begins in Birmingham, England. It's the second largest city 41 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom, with a population in the millions, 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: mostly English, but also hundreds of thousands of Irish. Like 43 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: any big city, Birmingham's got a thriving social scene. In particular, 44 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: on almost every corner there's a pub. It's in two 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: of those pubs that our story really begins, two ordinary 46 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: places where people go after work to get a pint 47 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: of beer. On November twenty first, nineteen seventy four, two 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: Birmingham pubs became together the scene of Britain's deadliest mass 49 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: murder in modern history. It all started at eight eleven 50 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: in the evening, an anonymous man with an Irish accent 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: placed a phone call to the Birmingham Post newspaper. There's 52 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: a bomb planted in the Rotunda, he said, and there's 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: a bomb in New Street. This, he added, is double X. 54 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: Then silence he'd hung up. The Rotunda was a high 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: rise office building in downtown Birmingham with a pub on 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: its first floor called the Mulberry Bush. New Street. Around 57 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: the corner was where the city tax office was. There 58 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: was a pub on that building's first floor too, called 59 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: the Tavern in the Town. And then, only six minutes 60 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: after that anonymous phone call, it happened two huge explosions. 61 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: The first was at the Mulberry Bush at eight seventeen pm. 62 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: A homemade bomb had been left in a leather bag 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: somewhere near the back door. When the bomb exploded, the 64 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: pub was packed with people and the damage was horrific. 65 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: The ceiling collapsed, fire engulfed the place. People were crushed 66 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: and burned to death. Others were impaled by falling beams. 67 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: First responders arrived and began working desperately to rescue survivors. 68 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: At the same time, police were frantically trying to evacuate 69 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: the tavern in the town, but they couldn't clear it 70 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: fast enough. At eight twenty seven pm, a second homemade 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: bomb exploded there again, the packed pub was destroyed. That 72 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: explosion was so powerful that people were blown through the 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: brick walls between the two pubs. Twenty one people died 74 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: and one hundred and eighty two were injured. It was 75 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: a coordinated attack that left Britain reeling. So why would 76 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: anyone bomb pubs in Birmingham? The answer is politics and history. 77 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: Here's our friend, doctor Hannah Quirk. She's a professor at 78 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: King's College, London who studies wrongful convictions and, like a 79 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: lot of folks in the United Kingdom, in Ireland. She 80 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: had a front row seat to that history. When she's 81 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: talking to people who are new to this part of 82 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: the world, Hannah likes to start here. 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 3: So there's obviously the famous U two song about Bloody Sunday. 84 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: That song's more than a pop anthem. It tells the 85 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: story of the long running and sometimes violent conflict between 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: Ireland and Britain. And here's that story in a nutshell. 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 3: There's a long, complicated history in Ireland, hundreds of years 88 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: of history. But in nineteen twenty two there'd been a 89 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: civil war and the majority of Ireland was given independence 90 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 3: from Great Britain and formed the Irish Free State. But 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: a deal was done to say that the six counties 92 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: of Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom. 93 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: Not everyone was happy with this deal, though. People became 94 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: intensely divided about whether Northern Ireland should be part of 95 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom or join the Republic of Ireland, and 96 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: those divisions often fell along religious lines. 97 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 3: Most Catholics were nationalists or Republicans. They wanted to be 98 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: a united Ireland so the Island of Ireland would be 99 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: one country, and most Protestants were Unionists or loyalists. They 100 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: wanted to remain part of Great Britain and be governed 101 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: from London. 102 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: Tensions simmered for years of Eventually anti Catholic sentiment started boiling, 103 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: especially in Northern Ireland. 104 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: Catholics were very discriminated against. They had far fewer job opportunities, 105 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: The housing was worse, so they were very overcrowded. They 106 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 3: couldn't sit on juries for the most part because they 107 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: didn't own property. Schools were divided on religious lines as well, 108 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: so the Civil rights movement grew in the United States, 109 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: and the Catholic population in Northern Ireland gradually began to 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 3: protest about discrimination that they were facing. Two British troops 111 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 3: had already gone into Northern Ireland to try and keep 112 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: the peace, and then Bloody Sunday in nineteen seventy two 113 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: British paratroopers opened fire on the protesters and killed thirteen 114 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: people and injured fifteen of them. 115 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: After Bloody Sunday, the violence really escalated on both sides. 116 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: People who wanted to end British rule in Northern Ireland 117 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: armed themselves and became active in a group called the 118 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: Irish Republican Army or the IRA. 119 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: That song people always said it was the best recruitment 120 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 3: thing the IRA could ever have had. Bloody Sunday, I 121 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 3: think was a real tipping point. It got so much attention, 122 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 3: not only in Northern Ireland but in England as well, 123 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 3: these images of the army shooting unarmed protesters. 124 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: The IRA thought of themselves as freedom fighters and they 125 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: used violence to make their points, even planting homemade bombs 126 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: all across Britain. The IRA targeted everything from government tax 127 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: offices to restaurants and pubs. By nineteen seventy four, two 128 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: years after Bloody Sunday, Britain was experiencing an average of 129 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: one attack every three days and British authorities were regularly retaliating. 130 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: The conflict was pretty close to a war, and it 131 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: became known as the Troubles. 132 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: I mean we called it the Troubles. When I was 133 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: growing up, that was all I heard on the news 134 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: was the Troubles. And then the first time I went 135 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: to Belfast, I realized no, actually this was this was 136 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: like a war. They were appalling levels of casualties in 137 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 3: those days as well, before the Internet, you'd get newsflashes 138 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: on the television, so the screen would go black and 139 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: they'd say we interrupt this program and it would be 140 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 3: a bomb had gone off for some kind of serious 141 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 3: situation had taken place. For years, there's been no trash 142 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 3: comes on public transport in London, just to stop people 143 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: being able to hide bombs there. I was probably about 144 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: eight or nine and my mom had taken me and 145 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: all my cousins and my little brother to buy school 146 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: uniforms and there was this announcement over the tannoy, please 147 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 3: evacuate the store, and the alarms going off. We just 148 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 3: thought it was a brilliant adventure because we were a 149 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: bit too little to realize it could be quite dangerous. 150 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: And my poor mum was just trying to grab about 151 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 3: eight children and get us out of the store, but 152 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: it was all glass at the front, so she didn't 153 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 3: know which way to take us and which was more dangerous. 154 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: So we just always laughed about how we all had 155 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: nail marks in our arms from where she was digging 156 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 3: her fingers in and dragging us out by the hair. 157 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: And it seemed like a bit of an adventure at 158 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 3: the time, but that kind of stuff was quite normal. 159 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: Here's just how normal these bombings had become. The IRA 160 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: had rules and under its rules, IRA members who bombed 161 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: as civilian target had to call British police and warned 162 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: them thirty minutes before the bomb went off. The idea 163 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: was to give enough time for police to evacuate as 164 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: many people as possible without sacrificing the bomb's political point. 165 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: But the British police needed a way to make sure 166 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: these anonymous phone calls were authentic not hoaxes. So the 167 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: IRA and the police agreed on a codeword known only 168 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: to them. If the caller used the codeword, you could 169 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: be sure the bomb threat was real, and that codeword 170 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: was double X. On the day the bombs went off, 171 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: tensions between the IRA and the British were sky high. 172 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: A week before, an IRA member named James McDade was 173 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: killed in Britain when a bomb he was placing went 174 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: off prematurely. IRA sympathizers in Britain were planning a hero's 175 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: funeral with military processions and honor guards, but the British 176 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: authorities quickly passed laws making those plans illegal instead. On 177 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: November twenty first, mcdade's body was flown from Birmingham to 178 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: Belfast for burial. Only hours after the plane care his 179 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: body took off. The bombs went off too. Between the 180 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: timing of the bombings and the use of the double 181 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: X codeword, it didn't take long for the police and 182 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: the public to conclude that the IRA was responsible. Now, 183 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: it's true the anonymous caller hadn't given the usual thirty 184 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: minutes advanced warning, but that fact got ignored as a 185 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: wave of anti Irish anger swept over Britain. The IRA 186 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: issued a denial, but no one listened. The British public 187 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: was terrified and the British authorities were enraged. There was 188 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: a thirst for justice and revenge. Within hours of the bombings, 189 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: police got a tip five Irish men had been seen 190 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: boarding a train that left Birmingham right before the explosion 191 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: at the Mulberry Bush. Four of them had tickets continuing 192 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: on to Belfast in Northern Ireland. Their names were Jerry Hunter, 193 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: Dick Macilkenny, John Walker, Billy Power and Patti Hill. They 194 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: were what the Irish call working class lads who didn't 195 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: have a lot of extra money. All five men were Catholic, 196 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: all were married and most of them had kids. None 197 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: of them was affiliated with the IRA. They were headed 198 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: to Belfast to attend James mcdade's funeral, but more out 199 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: of community obligation than for political reasons. For his part, 200 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: Patty Hill borrowed his train fare from a nun. He 201 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: promised to pay her back by doing some painting work 202 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,599 Speaker 1: when he returned, but that debt would soon become the 203 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: least of his problems. 204 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 4: This episode is sponsored by AIG, a leading global insurance company, 205 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 4: and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international 206 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 4: law firm. The AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal 207 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 4: services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals 208 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 4: most in need, and recently they announced that working to 209 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 4: reform the criminal justice system will become a key pillar 210 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 4: of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an 211 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 4: unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to 212 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 4: the most vulnerable members of our society and in support 213 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 4: of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal 214 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 4: justice area. 215 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: For the first few hours, the train ride was uneventful, 216 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: but when the train pulled up to Morecambe's station on 217 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: the evening of November twenty first, the police were waiting 218 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: a group of irishmen leaving Birmingham, just as the bombs 219 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: went off, seemed suspicious. All five were arrested and brought 220 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: to a nearby police department. That's where a forensic scientists 221 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: tested their hands for traces of nitroglycerin, a bomb ingredient. 222 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: The hands of two men tested positive, the scientists said, 223 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: Billy Power and Patty Hill. That was enough for the police. 224 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Not just justice, but revenge was suddenly possible. Within a day, 225 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: police arrested a sixth Irishman, Hugh Callahan, who had been 226 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: with the other five before they boarded the train, and 227 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: the interrogations endured by these six men, the Birmingham Six, 228 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: were horrific. It started at the Morcambe Police department with 229 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: John Walker. A group of police took John into a 230 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: back room where he was beaten, kicked, and burned with 231 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: a cigarette while other officers held his arms back. The 232 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: other men heard John's screaming, and then their turns came too. 233 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: For hours, they were all bloodied and beaten from head 234 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: to toe. One of them, Billy Power, was kicked over 235 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: and over on his head, legs, and stomach. He was 236 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: dragged by his hair and in one of the most 237 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: sadistic moments of this interrogation, police stretched his scrotum. 238 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 2: During these interrogations, at least some of these guys were 239 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: shown a letter, a letter that said that the torture 240 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: they were experiencing was state sanctioned. It was a letter 241 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 2: on government letterhead that basically told the police officers, you 242 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 2: can do what whatever you need to do in order 243 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: to get a confession from these men. To these guys, 244 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: the message was this pain, this torture is going to 245 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 2: continue unless you confess. 246 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: By twelve fifty five pm the next day, November twenty second, 247 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: Billy had had enough. He signed a written confession prepared 248 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: by police, admitting guilt in the Birmingham pub bombings. A 249 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: few hours later, the men were transferred to the custody 250 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: of another police unit, the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad, 251 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: where the torture continued, beatings, burnings, stress positions, even mock executions. 252 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: Patty Hill remembers having a pistol shoved into his mouth 253 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: so brutally that it broke several of his teeth. With 254 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: a cold metal barrel in Patty's mouth, his interrogators slowly 255 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: counted to three and pulled the trigger three times. They 256 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: did this each time Patty expected to die, only to 257 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: discover that the chamber didn't contain a bo. The thing 258 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: about torture is that it works, at least if your 259 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: only goal is to find a scapegoat. On November twenty third, 260 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,479 Speaker 1: Hugh Callahan, Dick mckilkenny, and John Walker signed false confessions. 261 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Like Billy, they claimed that they were IRA members and 262 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: that they'd planted both pub bombs. Somehow, Patty Hill and 263 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: Jerry Hunter were holdouts. They refused to sign confessions despite 264 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: the torture. Police would later claim that Patty and Jerry 265 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: verbally confessed, which Patty denies. The four written confessions were 266 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: short and virtually detail free. In fact, one of the 267 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: only details included was wrong. The confessions claimed that the 268 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: bombs were left at the pubs in white plastic bags, 269 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: but forensic analysis showed the bags had been leather. It 270 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: didn't matter. Four of the Birmingham six had confessed, and 271 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: all of them had been beaten within an inch of 272 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: their lives. Revenge, it seemed, had been achieved. 273 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: The last thing that you want interrogators to do when 274 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 2: they go into an interrogation room is to be guided 275 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: by a sense of vengeance, because what's going to happen 276 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: is the interrogator is going to do everything in his 277 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: power to quench that thirst for revenge, and the interrogation 278 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: no longer becomes about the truth. 279 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: After the confessions, the six were charged with murder and 280 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: transferred to Winston Green Prison, where guards continued the beatings. 281 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: When the Birmingham Six were finally brought to court a 282 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: week after the bombings, they'd been brutalized from head to foot. 283 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Patty Hill's wife was in the courtroom with their two 284 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: year old son. When the little boy saw his dad's injuries, 285 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: he was so traumatized that he needed medical attention. But 286 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: authorities told the judge that they had done nothing wrong. 287 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: The men had been attacked, they said, by other inmates. 288 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 2: We've seen excuses like that over and over again, even 289 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: in the United States. When somebody is battered, the police 290 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 2: changed the narrative from the beginning. They either blame it 291 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: on somebody falling down the stairs, or they blame it 292 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: on other inmates. But when these men appeared in court 293 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: for the first time, everybody knew what had happened to them. 294 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: It was clear that they had been through an ordeal. 295 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: That ordeal was far from over. Based on the confessions 296 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: and the nitroglycerin evidence. The Birmingham Six stood trial on 297 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: June ninth, nineteen seventy five. A defense expert testified that 298 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: the explosives testing had been faulty, and defense witnesses pointed 299 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: out that no explosives had been found at any of 300 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: the men's homes, But in short order that Birmingham Six 301 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: were convicted. Each man was sentenced to twenty one life sentences, 302 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: one for every person who died, and the people of Britain, 303 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: all of whom thought it could have been them inside 304 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: those pubs. They believed that justice had been done from 305 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: behind bars. The Birmingham Six fought their convictions like furies 306 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: and insisted the authorities acknowledge they'd been tortured, but for 307 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: a while, it looked like the entire system was lined 308 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: up against them. Eventually, fourteen prison officers were charged with 309 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: assaulting the six, but despite plenty of evidence, those officers 310 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: were all acquitted at trial. The six also tried to 311 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: soothe their torturers, but a judge dismissed their lawsuit in 312 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and he did it for reasons that you 313 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: have to hear to believe. Just think what it would 314 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: mean for Britain's legal system. The judge explained, if these 315 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: men were allowed to prove they'd been tortured, it would 316 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: mean that the police were guilty of perjury, that they 317 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: were guilty of violence and threats, and that the convictions 318 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: were erroneous. That was such an appalling vista. He declared, 319 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: that every sensible person would say, it cannot be right 320 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: that this lawsuit should go any further. 321 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: You know, the appalling vista here is this paternalistic attitude 322 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: of this judge that the public can't handle the truth, 323 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: he said, saying that if this torture were allowed to 324 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 2: be seen by them, if this injustice were allowed to 325 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 2: be acknowledged, the entire system would crumble. The irony is 326 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 2: that by suppressing the truth, by putting these allegations in 327 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 2: evidence of torture in the closet, he is breaking the 328 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: very system he claims to want to protect. Where are 329 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: these men supposed to get justice if not in a 330 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 2: court of law. 331 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: But while the court system closed its eyes to this injustice, 332 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: the world didn't. Journalist Chris Mullen, who would go on 333 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: to become a member of Parliament, investigated the bombings with 334 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: fresh eyes in nineteen eighty five, he retained two scientists 335 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: who debunked the test that supposedly had found nitroglycerin on 336 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: Patty and Billy's hands. A police officer also publicly confirmed 337 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: that the Birmingham Six had been beaten by their interrogators. 338 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: The next year, Chris Mullen published a book about the 339 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: case called Error of Judgment. In the book, Mullen described 340 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: meeting IRA members who admitted they were involved in the bombings, 341 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: although he didn't disclose their names, and Mullen explained something 342 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: that had been a mystery for years, why the double 343 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: X collar hadn't given the full thirty minutes warning before 344 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: the first explosion. Turns out, the bombers meant to give 345 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: police thirty minutes, but the telephone booth they'd planned to 346 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: use had been damaged by vandals. By the time they 347 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: found another phone, only six minutes were left. The warning 348 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: system wasn't as fool proof as they thought. That was 349 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: how these bombings became one of the deadliest mass murders 350 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: in modern British history. In nineteen eighty seven, advocates, including 351 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: renowned civil rights lawyer Gareth Pearce, convinced a court to 352 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: re examine the convictions of the Birmingham Six. At the hearing, 353 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: police officers testified about watching their colleagues torture the six men. 354 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: Evidence was also introduced about a handwritten chart that had 355 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: been found in the police station. The interrogators apparently used 356 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: this chart to line up the facts in the different 357 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: men's statements and make sure they matched. Of course, those 358 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: facts were actually lies. 359 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 2: The discovery of this chart basically proved what the men 360 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 2: had been saying all along, that we didn't confess to 361 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 2: these crimes. These were stories that were scripted by the police, 362 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: and we were tortured into saying what they wanted us 363 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 2: to say. 364 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: But despite this new evidence, relief was denied and the 365 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: case stalled for four years until a second hearing was granted. 366 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: There new evidence was introduced that further undermined the nitroglycerin 367 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: testing on Patty and Billy's hands. But what finally tipped 368 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: the balance, as Gareth Pierce later wrote it, it was 369 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: the simplest of stupidities. Previously, police had testified that the 370 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: men confessed freely, and that after they confessed, their stories 371 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: never changed. But Pierce had found the notebooks on which 372 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: the men's confessions had been written, sure enough. As the 373 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: police wrote, edited, and rewrote the false confessions on notebook pages, 374 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: their pens left indentations on the pages. Underneath those indentations 375 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: revealed how the stories had evolved and been altered, and 376 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: how the police's testimony had been false. 377 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: These indentations were like track changes, you know, they were 378 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: imprints on paper that were left because the police officers 379 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: were writing and rewriting so furiously that they left a 380 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: mark on the paper. Evidence that the confessions were scripted 381 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 2: is evidence of police contamination. That the story didn't come 382 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: from the defendants, it came from police officers. 383 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: All six convictions were declared unsafe that's a British term, 384 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: and thrown out. And on November twenty first, nineteen ninety one, 385 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: the Birmingham Six walked out of prison after sixteen years 386 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: behind bars. 387 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: Still makes the hairs on the back of your neck 388 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 3: stands on end, doesn't it. I remember it really vividly, 389 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 3: that image of them walking out of the court onto 390 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 3: the street, and builders hanging off scaffolding from the buildings 391 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 3: across the road, people packed outside, these hundreds and hundreds 392 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 3: of people, TV crews from around the world, and then 393 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: that amazing image of them all coming out linked hands, 394 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 3: holding them above their heads, with Chris Mullin, the journalist 395 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 3: who had campaigned for them, and then Paddy grabbing the 396 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 3: microphone and shouting how he'd spent sixteen years in prison 397 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: for a crime he didn't commit. It was that really 398 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 3: raw emotion, that was just so shocking. 399 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 5: The police told us from the start that they knew 400 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 5: we hadn't done it. 401 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: They told me they didn't care do it. 402 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 5: They told us that we were selected. I'm not going 403 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 5: to frame us just to keep the people in their happy. 404 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 5: Let's want a soul abid pics justice. I don't think 405 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 5: them people enough got the intelligence, No, the honest in 406 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 5: his spell award, never mind dispenses. 407 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: The six won their freedom years ago, but even today 408 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: real justice still seems illusory. There's never been a formal 409 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: declaration of innocence or exoneration. Even the court decision throwing 410 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: out their convictions still made veiled references to their possible guilt. 411 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: The closest the Birmingham Six has come to justice was 412 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: when they won a defamation lawsuit after a member of 413 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: Parliament called them guilty. The British government has compensated them financially, 414 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: but the amount doesn't come close to repaying them for 415 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: days of torture and sixteen lost years. 416 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 3: A psychiatrist assessed when they put in their claim for compensation, 417 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 3: and he said they had post traumatic stress disorder that 418 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 3: was on the level of somebody who had been in 419 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 3: a war zone. I think what they'd been through was 420 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 3: exceptional given the violence that they'd suffered, as well as 421 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 3: the miscarriage of justice. I mean, they had been tortured, 422 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 3: they'd had to fight and fight all the time in 423 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 3: prison for their own safety and fight to prove their innocence. 424 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 3: If you've had that level of adrenaline running through your 425 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: system for sixteen years, that doesn't just disappear when you 426 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 3: walk out of court. 427 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: And as for the bombing, it's never been definitively solved. 428 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: In fact, over the past few years, there's been an 429 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: ongoing inquest in Birmingham to reinvestigate what happened that day. 430 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: For years, Chris Mullen refused to name the men he 431 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: said had accepted responsibility, citing his journalistic obligation to protect sources. 432 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: Right before the inquest, Mullen finally published an article identifying 433 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: two former IRA members who are now dead for its part. 434 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: The IRA has never a fish admitted responsibility for the bombings. 435 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: At the inquest, one former IRA member, identified only as 436 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 1: Witness O, named the same perpetrators that Mullin had named, 437 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: plus two others. Another witness testified that the high body 438 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: count was accidental and described the bombings as an IRA 439 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: operation that went badly wrong in some ways, though the 440 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: system has tried to learn from its mistakes. 441 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 3: If you were writing a history of the criminal justice 442 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 3: system in this country, the Birmingham Six is a real 443 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 3: tipping point. It wasn't about the politics of Northern Ireland. 444 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 3: It was about the criminal justice system has done something 445 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 3: terribly wrong. So there was a real sense at the 446 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 3: time that the system was in crisis. People couldn't have 447 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: confidence in the system because there were so many wrongful 448 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 3: convictions happening. And on the day the Birmingham Six were 449 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 3: released from prison, the Home Secretary stood up in Parliament 450 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 3: and said, I'm ordering a commission to look into the 451 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 3: criminal justice system. 452 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: Based on that commission's recommendation, the UK created the Criminal 453 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: Cases Review Commission in nineteen ninety seven. 454 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 3: The Criminal Cases Review Commission is independent, but it's funded 455 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 3: by the government to investigate cases likeness and to see 456 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 3: where mischaracters of justice have happened. The CCRC isn't perfect, 457 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 3: but it's a remarkable organization. It's one of the few 458 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: places in the world where, to be honest, the government 459 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 3: has been big enough to say things do go wrong 460 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 3: and we need to create a way of putting this right, 461 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 3: and every country should have one. 462 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: In addition, the UK has adopted reforms around the way 463 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: suspects are interrogated, outlying not only physical torture but also 464 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: other tools of coercion like lying to suspects. These are 465 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: reforms that we should be enacting in the United States. 466 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: I always say that the UK is thirty five years 467 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: ahead of where we are in the United States as 468 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 2: far as interrogation reforms. They don't allow any confessions to 469 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 2: be admitted into evidence that are obtained by oppression, and 470 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 2: oppression does didn't mean just physical torture. It also means 471 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 2: psychological torture and the use of tactics which are likely 472 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 2: to render a confession unreliable. All of these reforms are 473 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 2: aimed at getting the truth and not just getting a confession. 474 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: The British legal system wasn't the only one to initiate 475 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: meaningful change. Patty Hill used the compensation he got for 476 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: his wrongful conviction to start a nonprofit, the Miscarriages of 477 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: Justice Organization. Its mission is to help people recently released 478 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: from prison to get back on their feet and to 479 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: help them handle the pain and anger they'll probably carry 480 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: for a long time. 481 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: There's this incredible caring side to Patty. He talks about 482 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 2: when people get out of prison, many of them seek 483 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 2: him out, and at least pre COVID, he would welcome 484 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 2: them in his home. And those are the people that 485 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: give him the greatest comfort in life because they shared 486 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: at least some of the experience that he had when 487 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: he was in prison. 488 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: You know, when I went back to Scotland last year, 489 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: I went to visit Patti Hill. 490 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 2: I'm so sad that I missed that opportunity. 491 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: He's an incredible man, but also he is angry still 492 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: and committed through that anger to improving the system. All 493 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: he wants to do is remember what happened to him 494 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: and then use that memory as fuel to change the system. 495 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: For Patty, all of those physical wounds have long since healed, 496 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: but the emotional wounds and the drive that he has 497 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: to make sure this doesn't happen again. Those are there forever. 498 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: We see that time and again with people who are exonerated. 499 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: They want to tell their story. They want the world 500 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 2: to know what happened to them, so it doesn't happen again. 501 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 6: Hello, Hello, Patty Laura. How are you. 502 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 5: Doing, Patty? 503 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 6: I'm doing well? 504 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: Oh good. So it was a year ago when I 505 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: saw you in Glasgow at the Mojo offices. 506 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 6: Yeah. 507 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: When you work with families of other people who are 508 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: in prison, is there anything to say to them to 509 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: give them hope? 510 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 6: I tell their families they're gonna have good moods, They're 511 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 6: gonna have bad moods, you know, And I tell them 512 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 6: you're not on your own. We can lessen the load 513 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 6: in any way. That's the main thing, you know. You 514 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 6: often hear that old cliche time is a great healer? 515 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: Is it true? 516 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 6: Believe me, time does not heal nothing. The only thing 517 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 6: you can hope for is that every day, please God, 518 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 6: you run down with a little bit better. 519 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: Do you have a support system people to help you 520 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: on those bad days? 521 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 6: When I meet up with some of the guys from 522 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 6: the Gium and one of the pubs and moving be 523 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 6: there for five six hours, that's when the. 524 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: You can be yourself, all yourself. 525 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 6: Maybe exactly, yeah, yeah, you have a good time. 526 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: And that's the story of the Birmingham Six. Join us 527 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: next week when we'll tell you the story of a 528 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: Virginia fisherman who got caught in a net of injustice. 529 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: He didn't give up false confession during his interrogation, but 530 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: the words he did say were still enough to put 531 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: him in prison for thirty one years. Wrongful Conviction, False 532 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: Confessions is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 533 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one Special thanks to our 534 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wardis. Our production team 535 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: is headed by senior producer a Pope along with producers 536 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: Joshi Hammer and Jess Shane. Our show is mixed by 537 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: Genie Montalvo. John Colbert is our intrepid intern. Our music 538 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow me on 539 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: Instagram or Twitter at Laura and I Wrider, and. 540 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: You can follow me on Twitter at Sdrizzen. 541 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com. 542 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow the show on Instagram at Wrongful 543 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and on Twitter 544 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: at wrong Conviction