WEBVTT - Rewind: Johnny Marr

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Johnny Marr is maybe the last in a line

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<v Speaker 1>of acclaimed British guitarists. He's played with tons of bands,

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<v Speaker 1>including most famously, The Smiths. Mar started playing guitar as

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<v Speaker 1>a young teenager growing up in Manchester. When he turned fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>he dropped out of school and moved to London to

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<v Speaker 1>join the band Sister Ray. A couple of years later,

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<v Speaker 1>he wound up helping to form The Smiths with Morrissey,

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Joyce and Mars's friend and bassist Andy Rourke. Then,

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<v Speaker 1>after The Smiths broke up in eighty seven, he went

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<v Speaker 1>on to collaborate with an array of different musicians and

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<v Speaker 1>playing bands like The Pretenders, The The and even later

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<v Speaker 1>Modest Mouse. In the early aughts, Mars started releasing solo material,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's on the brink of releasing a new album

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<v Speaker 1>full of the best songs from his solo career. On

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<v Speaker 1>today's episode, I talked to Johnny Marr about his exciting

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<v Speaker 1>work in the studio with Farrell and on Zimmer. Mar

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<v Speaker 1>also recalls the terror he felt performing live in front

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<v Speaker 1>of massive stadiums full of fans with The Pretenders on

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube's Joshua Tree Tour He also talks about the time

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<v Speaker 1>he bought a Fender Stratocaster with Noel Gallagher from Oasis

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<v Speaker 1>that Stratt had nine pickups and eventually led him to

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<v Speaker 1>write one of the best songs of his solo career.

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<v Speaker 1>This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Johnny Marr. It

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<v Speaker 1>seems like a really sort of whirlwind time in your life.

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<v Speaker 1>It must be like a lot of things that are

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<v Speaker 1>connected to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, do you know what I've been really looking at

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<v Speaker 2>in hand on her and maybe accept for I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>a period in my I guess mid thirties or something where,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, for a couple of years I was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of like.

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<v Speaker 3>Doing other things. But I feel like I've been busy

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<v Speaker 3>for like forty years or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm always

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<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of busy because I'm a workaholic. Well, actually

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<v Speaker 2>it's a bad way of putting it. I'm really passionate

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<v Speaker 2>about what I do. I've been doing the same things

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<v Speaker 2>as intensely as I do now.

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<v Speaker 3>I've been doing that since I was fifteen.

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<v Speaker 2>I left school at fifteen to join a pro band

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<v Speaker 2>with adults at fifteen and then really ever since nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighty two, when I've made my first record with the Smiths,

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<v Speaker 2>I just feel like I've never really stopped, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>so I've been obviously I feel very very grateful to

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<v Speaker 2>be to do that. But yeah, I mean, I suppose

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<v Speaker 2>the last big thing I did was the Bond movie

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<v Speaker 2>with An Zimmer. But and this year, really we've got

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<v Speaker 2>a best of coming out. I was on tour with

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<v Speaker 2>the Killers last year and right now I'm just rehearsing

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<v Speaker 2>to go out and do.

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<v Speaker 3>Some more stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, you know, I've not done a solo or best

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<v Speaker 2>of yet before that's about.

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<v Speaker 3>To come out now, And that was that was to

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<v Speaker 3>do with the record coming in.

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<v Speaker 2>The management just kind of went, hey, look, we know

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<v Speaker 2>that you're going to be expect and to go in

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<v Speaker 2>and make another LP, make another album. Well you've only

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<v Speaker 2>just done a double album last year, so just hold

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<v Speaker 2>your horses and let's just it's been ten years since

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<v Speaker 2>you've had this solo band, and let's just put it

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<v Speaker 2>all on the best of and if you think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a good listen, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you like it? Have you have you sequenced it

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<v Speaker 1>and listened.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I know this might sound a little

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<v Speaker 2>odd to say, but being given the assignment to put

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<v Speaker 2>a best of out when it wasn't driven by me,

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes from someone else, and going oh okay, right,

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<v Speaker 2>let me look at that, and then getting it all

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<v Speaker 2>mastered and listening to it, you know, because I had

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<v Speaker 2>to listen to the test pressings. Right, So the test

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<v Speaker 2>presents coming, and you know, I've been doing this since

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<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, right, test Presidence come.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm always excited about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, oh, great white labels, and you put it on

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<v Speaker 2>the turntable and you have to sit and you have

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<v Speaker 2>to listen for any little pops or anything.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I said to the band guys last night, I got

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<v Speaker 2>the test presence of the You know, it's a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>good album, man, it's a good listen, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>I don't take anything for granted, you know, justin so

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<v Speaker 2>so pleased with it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great. I'd be excited to check that out because

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<v Speaker 1>I've sort of been over the last year just curating,

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<v Speaker 1>oddly enough, just different playlists of things that you're involved in,

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<v Speaker 1>like I don't know, just randomly resequencing Smith's records. Just

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<v Speaker 1>for fun or like, yeah, I made a playlist of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that was just stuff that you've played on but

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<v Speaker 1>weren't like bands that you were actually a part of.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And then your last record, the Fever Dreams one through four,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean just came out was like a wealth of

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<v Speaker 1>great material. You know.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks. I'm glad that that I've done all of that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean obviously, but I did a couple of tracks

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<v Speaker 2>with Beck, and then I did maybe four or five

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<v Speaker 2>tracks with John Fishanty, and then I popped up on

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<v Speaker 2>records with all these different really cool musicians.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, a chance. Yeah, And that was so well.

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<v Speaker 2>As I was doing it, I was thinking, wow, man,

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<v Speaker 2>this is oh I love this music, and what a

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<v Speaker 2>cool thing, you know. So so like when John Vishanity

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<v Speaker 2>he invited me over to when he was working on

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<v Speaker 2>the Imperium and it was like, I've got these tracks,

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<v Speaker 2>take your pick, and he played me a track and

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<v Speaker 2>I said, oh, I think I can do something on

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<v Speaker 2>that band and played me another track. Oh I've got

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<v Speaker 2>an idea for that bank And then you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of days later you kind of go, well, that

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<v Speaker 2>was a nice experience. So I think what I'm saying

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<v Speaker 2>is none of it's planned. It's all this kind of

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say it a journey. I've been a

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<v Speaker 2>musician and being very very fortunate that people who were

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<v Speaker 2>doing cool things have invited me to do cool things

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<v Speaker 2>with them.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's never been planned.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it something about you like you yourself as a person,

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<v Speaker 1>or about your plane, or a bit of both that

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<v Speaker 1>allows you to fit in with so many different kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of people.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I guess so.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think musicians are very welcoming and inclusive types

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<v Speaker 2>of people. It might be a bit cheesy, but I

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<v Speaker 2>have a certain kind of pride in that, not my

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<v Speaker 2>personal coming about myself, but my you know, brothers and

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<v Speaker 2>sisters of music. You know, they because let's put it

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<v Speaker 2>this way, I've been around.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't whether you've.

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<v Speaker 2>Ever been in a room with several actors or in

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<v Speaker 2>a taxi with several comedians, but often there's a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a competitive vibe. I know it's a generalization, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I know a bunch of great actors, and I know

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<v Speaker 2>a bunch of some great comedians, right, But I've noticed

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<v Speaker 2>that musicians are very You get a couple of musicians

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<v Speaker 2>together and they go, hey, did you have you ever heard.

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<v Speaker 3>This thing that came out in nineteen eighty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, you're gonna love it, or I really really

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<v Speaker 2>like this thing, or oh man, did you know that

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<v Speaker 2>he played the drums on this record in nineteen sixty five,

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<v Speaker 2>And there's always this sharing kind of thinking, Well, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>really typical like that as a As a musician, I

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<v Speaker 2>suppose I'm very enthusiastic if.

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<v Speaker 3>I hear something that I'm into.

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<v Speaker 2>And the people that I've mentioned maybe Pet Shop Boys

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<v Speaker 2>as well. You know, we had a little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a tradition for a while there where they would always.

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<v Speaker 3>Get me to do the B sides of their singles.

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<v Speaker 2>They were like, well, okay, we've got this this electro

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<v Speaker 2>pop and the B side. Usually it'd be like this,

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<v Speaker 2>the B side is slightly experimental and it'd be interesting

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<v Speaker 2>to put a guitar on it, which in Pet Shop

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<v Speaker 2>Boys land is being experimental, which and then and they go, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>Johnny'll do it. And I'm the guy for that because

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<v Speaker 2>I love them, and so I've got to be on

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<v Speaker 2>more Pet Shop Boys records than any other musician. I

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<v Speaker 2>pop up and do all the ones where they go, listen,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got this guitar song. You know, I'm very proud

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<v Speaker 2>of that. So to answer your question, it's a partly

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<v Speaker 2>to do with my personality being very very typical kind

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<v Speaker 2>of musician. That means I will stay in the studio

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<v Speaker 2>either listening to stories or telling stories till really till

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<v Speaker 2>three am or whatever it used to be seven am.

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<v Speaker 2>But these days are a little bit more moderate. And

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<v Speaker 2>the other thing is, I guess the second thing you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>I like to play guitar that I think is appropriate

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<v Speaker 2>to whatever the song is. So if all that's required is,

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<v Speaker 2>like recently on Know Gallagher stuff, for instance, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going in there going right okay by bar eight, you

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<v Speaker 2>really need to know that I'm on it.

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<v Speaker 3>I just kind of go, what's the song?

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<v Speaker 2>And I sort of think in that regard, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>really beyond thinking like a session musician.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have to really be this big deal on it,

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<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the thing I really enjoy about your playing in

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<v Speaker 1>your career is there is this bit of you that

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<v Speaker 1>almost approaches music for the way like a jazz musician

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<v Speaker 1>did in the fifties or sixties, like Herbie Hancock can

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<v Speaker 1>put out you know, peer in Islands and then also

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<v Speaker 1>just go play on like a great Lee Morgan record,

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<v Speaker 1>and he puts as much of his heart and soul

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<v Speaker 1>into that side man workquote unquote, you can tell as

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<v Speaker 1>he seem to have done his own records, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's an absolute honor because I think

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of feels about right. I think when you

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<v Speaker 2>were talking then, I was thinking paradoxically, people who say

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<v Speaker 2>they don't like jazz, or people who don't like jazz

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<v Speaker 2>think it's about just people blowing. But to me, one

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<v Speaker 2>of the best things about jazz musicians is to be

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<v Speaker 2>a good jazz musician, you have to listen.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you have to listen to what everybody else is doing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a conversation and you know you can do that

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<v Speaker 2>in indie rock again, come back to say the most

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<v Speaker 2>recent thing that I've done with somebody else with no

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<v Speaker 2>Gallagher stuff. I want to make the record really good,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. So there's bits where you lay out, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's bits when you play just textual stuff, and

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<v Speaker 2>then there's bits where you come in with the riff.

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<v Speaker 2>And ultimately it's his record and his vision, and he

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<v Speaker 2>trusts me to do because he knows that I'm all

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<v Speaker 2>about the big picture and not about me just stepping

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<v Speaker 2>all over it.

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<v Speaker 3>Other times though, you know, I did a record with.

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<v Speaker 2>The Australian project Avalanches a few years ago with me

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<v Speaker 2>and MGM.

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<v Speaker 1>There.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, me and MGMT did a song with them, and

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<v Speaker 2>that was that was really cool because they had this

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<v Speaker 2>idea for this riff and I said, okay, well what

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<v Speaker 2>about if I just develop it? And then what I

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<v Speaker 2>did was sort of featured and that kind of floated

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<v Speaker 2>through the track.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's whatever's appropriate.

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<v Speaker 1>Really.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when I was learning, maybe twelve thirteen something,

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<v Speaker 2>so I sorould have been in the mid seventies just

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<v Speaker 2>for punk broke out. Back then, there wasn't you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't be able to go in Barnes and Noble

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<v Speaker 2>or Waterstones in England and see like shelves and shelves

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<v Speaker 2>of books about anybody.

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<v Speaker 3>You know. I'm sure Justin Bieber has got a whole

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<v Speaker 3>wall fall, but whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but back then that was not a thing, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So I would read the music press, and I would

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<v Speaker 2>go into the library and if a book did appear

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<v Speaker 2>about whoever it was, I didn't if it caught my interest,

0:11:12.316 --> 0:11:14.036
<v Speaker 2>I would read it. Or I just stand in the

0:11:14.036 --> 0:11:16.116
<v Speaker 2>bookstore and read it. There's only a few things around.

0:11:16.156 --> 0:11:18.196
<v Speaker 2>I remember there's one about Pete Sounds, and there was

0:11:18.196 --> 0:11:22.036
<v Speaker 2>a Miles Davis one, and there was led Zeppelin monster stuff.

0:11:22.076 --> 0:11:24.796
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, when you start off, if you're really obsessive,

0:11:24.836 --> 0:11:28.556
<v Speaker 2>as I was, some bits of information really stick to you.

0:11:29.916 --> 0:11:33.156
<v Speaker 2>And there was it was either Keith Richards or John Lennon,

0:11:33.236 --> 0:11:37.436
<v Speaker 2>I think, was saying that the most important part of

0:11:37.476 --> 0:11:40.436
<v Speaker 2>being a guitar player is being able to play rhythm.

0:11:40.716 --> 0:11:42.996
<v Speaker 2>And to a twelve year old boy whose poles are

0:11:43.036 --> 0:11:46.356
<v Speaker 2>all going, you know, trying to play all this shreddy

0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:49.636
<v Speaker 2>stuff or whatever, when I read that information, I was

0:11:49.676 --> 0:11:52.516
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, huh, it sounded really noble to me.

0:11:53.156 --> 0:11:55.956
<v Speaker 2>And this thing of underpinning the band and having the

0:11:55.996 --> 0:11:58.956
<v Speaker 2>groove down and all of that. And then obviously as

0:11:59.036 --> 0:12:00.836
<v Speaker 2>time went on and I got into people like Keith

0:12:00.916 --> 0:12:03.996
<v Speaker 2>Richards or or obviously Nol Rogers and people like that,

0:12:04.676 --> 0:12:07.356
<v Speaker 2>and you know, Jimmy Nolan who plays with James Brown

0:12:07.436 --> 0:12:11.956
<v Speaker 2>and just any number of really great rhythm players. That's

0:12:11.996 --> 0:12:13.596
<v Speaker 2>just one of the chapters that you need to have

0:12:14.116 --> 0:12:15.636
<v Speaker 2>got through, you know what I mean. It's it's just

0:12:15.756 --> 0:12:18.956
<v Speaker 2>part of being a guitar player. I think I just

0:12:18.996 --> 0:12:21.596
<v Speaker 2>think it's really cool to just like be appropriate to

0:12:21.716 --> 0:12:22.116
<v Speaker 2>the song.

0:12:22.836 --> 0:12:25.316
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is your phone just open? You just say, people

0:12:25.396 --> 0:12:27.356
<v Speaker 1>just know you're ready to play.

0:12:27.356 --> 0:12:29.956
<v Speaker 2>Allays pretty yeah, I know pretty much because it's been

0:12:29.956 --> 0:12:32.316
<v Speaker 2>that way for years.

0:12:32.316 --> 0:12:33.956
<v Speaker 3>I mean a lot. I know a lot of people.

0:12:34.116 --> 0:12:37.676
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm always I'm never not available for Brian

0:12:37.756 --> 0:12:41.676
<v Speaker 2>Ferry because I've been working with Brian now since nineteen

0:12:42.196 --> 0:12:47.636
<v Speaker 2>eighties eighty seven, and Brian's always writing, and he's always

0:12:47.676 --> 0:12:50.236
<v Speaker 2>he's always making tracks. He's always got tracks upon the

0:12:50.276 --> 0:12:52.156
<v Speaker 2>go and he comes back to them and all this

0:12:52.236 --> 0:12:52.836
<v Speaker 2>sort of stuff.

0:12:52.876 --> 0:12:55.196
<v Speaker 3>So that's been an ongoing thing for years.

0:12:55.236 --> 0:13:00.076
<v Speaker 2>But then since I guess twenty ten, Hans Zimmer, if

0:13:00.156 --> 0:13:04.476
<v Speaker 2>Hands wants something doing, even if it's something on the

0:13:04.676 --> 0:13:07.436
<v Speaker 2>on the choiet, just you know, you need a little

0:13:07.436 --> 0:13:08.796
<v Speaker 2>bit of this or I'll do that.

0:13:09.276 --> 0:13:13.756
<v Speaker 1>An incredible relationship to I mean musical relationship you guys

0:13:13.796 --> 0:13:14.356
<v Speaker 1>have built.

0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:17.356
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he really taught me a lot. I think with Hands,

0:13:17.396 --> 0:13:21.956
<v Speaker 2>he's he's got the soul of a rock musician. And

0:13:21.996 --> 0:13:24.956
<v Speaker 2>if you go to his shows, which are now like

0:13:25.076 --> 0:13:28.836
<v Speaker 2>three hours long, and then's some of the pieces that

0:13:28.876 --> 0:13:30.956
<v Speaker 2>he's doing in this current show, which actually my son

0:13:31.036 --> 0:13:32.196
<v Speaker 2>plays plays in that.

0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:34.996
<v Speaker 3>I've been up I've been upgraded to the mar.

0:13:35.476 --> 0:13:39.956
<v Speaker 2>Version two two point zero, so my son plays in that.

0:13:40.076 --> 0:13:41.676
<v Speaker 3>But there are some moments in that.

0:13:41.556 --> 0:13:45.396
<v Speaker 2>Show that it makes Kashmir sound like a boy band.

0:13:46.036 --> 0:13:50.436
<v Speaker 2>It's wow, amazingly orchestrated rock music.

0:13:51.196 --> 0:13:52.676
<v Speaker 3>At the heart of it is rock music.

0:13:53.716 --> 0:13:57.156
<v Speaker 2>And you know, with me and hands, you know, once

0:13:57.196 --> 0:14:01.036
<v Speaker 2>we get talking about music and talking about melotrons and

0:14:01.516 --> 0:14:06.476
<v Speaker 2>fair lights or late sixties strats or what you know,

0:14:06.916 --> 0:14:10.356
<v Speaker 2>or Tangerine dream or whatever next thing, we look at

0:14:10.396 --> 0:14:12.956
<v Speaker 2>our watch and it's you know, it's quarter past three

0:14:13.196 --> 0:14:16.436
<v Speaker 2>in the am, you know, and we just sit around

0:14:16.476 --> 0:14:20.156
<v Speaker 2>his studios listening to music, playing music or talking about music.

0:14:20.596 --> 0:14:24.556
<v Speaker 2>It's so that's what my pals are, like. My friends

0:14:24.596 --> 0:14:27.076
<v Speaker 2>are the same as me, you know, we're Yeah, it's

0:14:27.236 --> 0:14:28.476
<v Speaker 2>it's what I dreamed of when I.

0:14:28.396 --> 0:14:28.996
<v Speaker 3>Was a kid, you know.

0:14:29.276 --> 0:14:32.476
<v Speaker 1>For Shanty's same kind of character being around John Frushanti,

0:14:32.556 --> 0:14:37.076
<v Speaker 1>the amount of guitar players he can reference in a

0:14:37.116 --> 0:14:40.236
<v Speaker 1>given moment, and he feels like he's able to synthesize

0:14:40.876 --> 0:14:43.956
<v Speaker 1>all of these disparate you know, he's like almost like

0:14:43.996 --> 0:14:45.956
<v Speaker 1>a computer to me, like talk about AI, It's like,

0:14:46.236 --> 0:14:48.916
<v Speaker 1>how is he pulling from all that at once? That's

0:14:49.076 --> 0:14:49.956
<v Speaker 1>it's insane.

0:14:50.116 --> 0:14:51.876
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's well, there's a couple of things that come

0:14:51.916 --> 0:14:54.356
<v Speaker 2>to mind when you say that. I think you're absolutely

0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:56.076
<v Speaker 2>right about John and there's a few other people I

0:14:56.116 --> 0:14:58.876
<v Speaker 2>know like that. I think people who are great, whoever

0:14:58.876 --> 0:15:03.836
<v Speaker 2>they are. But in my field it's musicians. They are experts,

0:15:04.076 --> 0:15:08.596
<v Speaker 2>absolute experts. And that might sound obvious, but there's this

0:15:08.676 --> 0:15:13.876
<v Speaker 2>famous sorry about when Bob Marley first went into record

0:15:13.956 --> 0:15:15.596
<v Speaker 2>and it was like some little four track and he

0:15:15.716 --> 0:15:17.836
<v Speaker 2>was like sixteen or seventeen or something. I think it

0:15:17.916 --> 0:15:21.276
<v Speaker 2>was with cocksoil or something. And if you hear enough

0:15:21.276 --> 0:15:23.236
<v Speaker 2>about those stories, you hear you know what. He was

0:15:23.316 --> 0:15:25.916
<v Speaker 2>kind of a pain in the ass because he would

0:15:25.956 --> 0:15:27.956
<v Speaker 2>be like, the backing vocals are too loud, back in

0:15:28.036 --> 0:15:31.636
<v Speaker 2>volks are too loud. Because he'd studied the Coasters, and

0:15:31.716 --> 0:15:35.996
<v Speaker 2>he'd studied the Drifters, and he'd studied Curtis Mayfel and

0:15:36.036 --> 0:15:39.276
<v Speaker 2>the Impressions, so he knew how the backing vocals on those.

0:15:39.436 --> 0:15:42.316
<v Speaker 2>This is when he was a kid, right, But you

0:15:42.316 --> 0:15:46.476
<v Speaker 2>could go right across in sports, I'm sure in business too.

0:15:46.916 --> 0:15:50.556
<v Speaker 2>But people who are great are real experts. I guess

0:15:50.756 --> 0:15:53.276
<v Speaker 2>it's not a surprise because it's your passion.

0:15:53.916 --> 0:15:57.356
<v Speaker 1>So become concessive, you become obsessive, yeah, because yeah, yeah,

0:15:57.356 --> 0:15:58.316
<v Speaker 1>because you love it.

0:15:58.596 --> 0:15:59.476
<v Speaker 3>That's right, you know.

0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:01.796
<v Speaker 2>And then the second thing you're talking about there, like

0:16:01.836 --> 0:16:05.236
<v Speaker 2>with Johnny's and other people like that, are there's a

0:16:05.276 --> 0:16:07.156
<v Speaker 2>lot of musicians like this. They take all of these

0:16:07.196 --> 0:16:11.796
<v Speaker 2>different elements that only to them make sense and then

0:16:11.796 --> 0:16:13.756
<v Speaker 2>it comes out. But when you hear it, he goes, oh, yeah,

0:16:13.756 --> 0:16:15.676
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like that. So for example, in my case,

0:16:15.796 --> 0:16:19.116
<v Speaker 2>like for forty years, I didn't really do a lot

0:16:19.156 --> 0:16:21.196
<v Speaker 2>of interviews in the early Smith's days, but when I

0:16:21.236 --> 0:16:24.476
<v Speaker 2>was asked about guitar playing, when I had to really

0:16:24.596 --> 0:16:29.076
<v Speaker 2>nail it down, I was like, well, now Rogers, bertianch

0:16:29.836 --> 0:16:34.316
<v Speaker 2>and James Williamson from the studios, Now that's yeah, but

0:16:34.356 --> 0:16:36.916
<v Speaker 2>that's a pretty boat after anyone who's followed me for

0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:39.396
<v Speaker 2>years and years knows that they're my like they're my tree.

0:16:39.556 --> 0:16:41.436
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously I love a lot, you know, I

0:16:41.476 --> 0:16:42.956
<v Speaker 3>love what Roy Gallagher was doing.

0:16:42.956 --> 0:16:45.556
<v Speaker 2>I love what you know John mcgeeock from the band

0:16:45.636 --> 0:16:47.356
<v Speaker 2>Cheese and Will Sergeant from the bunny men.

0:16:47.396 --> 0:16:48.276
<v Speaker 3>I mean there's hundreds.

0:16:48.276 --> 0:16:50.316
<v Speaker 2>I mean I could stay of just giving a list

0:16:50.356 --> 0:16:53.676
<v Speaker 2>and lists of amazing guitar players. Obviously, but at first

0:16:53.716 --> 0:16:56.836
<v Speaker 2>people would were like, huh, come again, what you like

0:16:57.436 --> 0:17:00.276
<v Speaker 2>now Rogers I influenced the Smith's. But over time, now

0:17:01.316 --> 0:17:04.196
<v Speaker 2>people know that some of these songs like that, I go, well,

0:17:04.316 --> 0:17:06.156
<v Speaker 2>listen to the Boy would listen to the second verse

0:17:06.196 --> 0:17:08.796
<v Speaker 2>in The Boy with the Thorn in his Side, and.

0:17:08.556 --> 0:17:10.836
<v Speaker 3>Or there's a famous story about when I wrote hand

0:17:10.836 --> 0:17:11.156
<v Speaker 3>in Glove.

0:17:11.156 --> 0:17:13.436
<v Speaker 2>It just started out as a sheet riff, so point

0:17:13.516 --> 0:17:17.916
<v Speaker 2>being that that made total sense to me. But you

0:17:17.996 --> 0:17:21.876
<v Speaker 2>put it all through a funnel, comes in through your

0:17:21.916 --> 0:17:25.316
<v Speaker 2>own mind, and then it comes out and people go, oh, yeah,

0:17:25.436 --> 0:17:28.796
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like Jenny mar right. But to me, if

0:17:28.836 --> 0:17:30.356
<v Speaker 2>I told you what I was thinking of when I

0:17:30.396 --> 0:17:31.756
<v Speaker 2>was trying to come up with some of these, if

0:17:31.796 --> 0:17:32.276
<v Speaker 2>you go what.

0:17:33.596 --> 0:17:36.036
<v Speaker 1>I'm so glad that you mentioned James Williamson too, though,

0:17:36.276 --> 0:17:38.796
<v Speaker 1>because as much as I love the Ashley on Brown

0:17:38.836 --> 0:17:42.316
<v Speaker 1>Ashton and the Ashton Brothers, James Williamson man like some

0:17:42.356 --> 0:17:44.636
<v Speaker 1>of those. I feel like some of that music with

0:17:44.876 --> 0:17:49.876
<v Speaker 1>James gets discounted. That Kill City re Iggy is just one.

0:17:50.116 --> 0:17:51.476
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know, man, I go to that

0:17:51.556 --> 0:17:54.396
<v Speaker 1>record all the time because it just blows me away.

0:17:54.796 --> 0:17:58.076
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's amazing because when I first met Noel Gallagher,

0:17:58.516 --> 0:18:00.356
<v Speaker 2>he was a fairly he was young. No would have

0:18:00.396 --> 0:18:03.156
<v Speaker 2>been about maybe twenty or something nineteen. I was pretty

0:18:03.196 --> 0:18:06.916
<v Speaker 2>young myself, maybe twenty six, twenty seven. But the first

0:18:06.916 --> 0:18:08.636
<v Speaker 2>time he came to my house, that was the record

0:18:08.676 --> 0:18:10.596
<v Speaker 2>I gave him. It wasn't aware of it, but I

0:18:10.636 --> 0:18:13.436
<v Speaker 2>don't know whether this is so what I got from

0:18:13.716 --> 0:18:16.236
<v Speaker 2>James Williamson. I had thought I was playing when I

0:18:16.276 --> 0:18:26.516
<v Speaker 2>was about fifteen, and it was something like and a

0:18:26.556 --> 0:18:28.556
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine, Billy Duffey, went on it being the call.

0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:30.436
<v Speaker 2>He said to me, now that sounds like gimme Danger,

0:18:30.476 --> 0:18:32.836
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, what's that. I've never heard of

0:18:32.876 --> 0:18:36.596
<v Speaker 2>gimme danger? And anyway, so a long story, but I

0:18:36.636 --> 0:18:50.756
<v Speaker 2>tracked down Raw Power. So when I heard that, I went, well,

0:18:50.796 --> 0:18:54.156
<v Speaker 2>that sounds like the way I'm trying to play, so

0:18:54.676 --> 0:18:54.956
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:18:55.356 --> 0:18:56.116
<v Speaker 3>The truth be told.

0:18:56.116 --> 0:18:57.916
<v Speaker 2>I was a bit pissed that someone had already beat

0:18:57.956 --> 0:18:59.676
<v Speaker 2>me to this, this new song I was writing.

0:19:00.236 --> 0:19:02.876
<v Speaker 3>So James is a massive influence on me.

0:19:03.076 --> 0:19:04.796
<v Speaker 2>Massive. When I heard that, I just kind of went,

0:19:05.516 --> 0:19:08.436
<v Speaker 2>you're on the right path. You know you're doing the

0:19:08.476 --> 0:19:11.436
<v Speaker 2>right thing. And then we'd say, just for an illustration,

0:19:11.636 --> 0:19:14.716
<v Speaker 2>seeing as I don't always do this, but just guitar,

0:19:14.796 --> 0:19:15.876
<v Speaker 2>I don't make it hear his probably.

0:19:15.916 --> 0:19:30.436
<v Speaker 4>But the Smith's song Handing Glove, well that started off.

0:19:30.476 --> 0:19:31.876
<v Speaker 4>When I first started playing.

0:19:31.556 --> 0:19:44.596
<v Speaker 2>It, it went, which is me trying to be cheek

0:19:49.916 --> 0:19:52.396
<v Speaker 2>It was my girlfriend said make it sound more like Iggy,

0:19:52.476 --> 0:19:54.716
<v Speaker 2>so I did and I ended up sounding like that.

0:19:54.796 --> 0:19:57.196
<v Speaker 3>But that and that was the first Smith single.

0:19:57.316 --> 0:20:00.156
<v Speaker 2>But when we came out, no one I believed when

0:20:00.156 --> 0:20:03.396
<v Speaker 2>I said I was now Rogers was a huge influence

0:20:03.436 --> 0:20:06.436
<v Speaker 2>on me, you know. So you know that's what musicians

0:20:06.436 --> 0:20:08.596
<v Speaker 2>are like, though, aren't they? And I think maybe creative

0:20:08.636 --> 0:20:12.156
<v Speaker 2>people as well. Sometimes you're trying to copy your heroes

0:20:12.156 --> 0:20:15.996
<v Speaker 2>and your limitations kind of get I mean, I'm not

0:20:15.996 --> 0:20:18.196
<v Speaker 2>the first person I said this, but your limitations just

0:20:18.276 --> 0:20:20.796
<v Speaker 2>kind of put a stamp on what you can and

0:20:20.836 --> 0:20:21.276
<v Speaker 2>can't do.

0:20:22.596 --> 0:20:24.196
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break and then come back

0:20:24.236 --> 0:20:31.596
<v Speaker 1>with more of my interview with Johnny Marr. We're back

0:20:31.636 --> 0:20:34.996
<v Speaker 1>with more from Johnny Marr. How much in terms of

0:20:35.636 --> 0:20:39.796
<v Speaker 1>just raw skill do you feel like you've developed from

0:20:40.316 --> 0:20:42.796
<v Speaker 1>let's say nineteen eighty to now.

0:20:43.956 --> 0:20:45.836
<v Speaker 3>Well, I took it really seriously. I started.

0:20:46.276 --> 0:20:50.436
<v Speaker 2>My parents to this day is still really their music freaks.

0:20:50.756 --> 0:20:52.596
<v Speaker 2>So I grew up in a house of Irish parents

0:20:52.636 --> 0:20:57.196
<v Speaker 2>who treated music like it was a religion. So if

0:20:57.196 --> 0:21:01.756
<v Speaker 2>they like someone, they really really really like them. And

0:21:01.836 --> 0:21:03.956
<v Speaker 2>so I want to see my parents, who are in

0:21:03.996 --> 0:21:06.636
<v Speaker 2>their eighties now, and my dad was showing me this

0:21:06.836 --> 0:21:08.916
<v Speaker 2>country music podcast that he just got into.

0:21:09.556 --> 0:21:10.716
<v Speaker 3>They're still didn't it to this day.

0:21:10.796 --> 0:21:15.116
<v Speaker 2>My mother she's super into like watching new country singers

0:21:15.116 --> 0:21:20.076
<v Speaker 2>and singer songwriters on YouTube. So they were really young

0:21:20.116 --> 0:21:21.916
<v Speaker 2>when I was a kid, so I was brought up

0:21:21.956 --> 0:21:27.796
<v Speaker 2>around all these young Irish adults, your teenagers, really playing music.

0:21:27.916 --> 0:21:30.636
<v Speaker 2>So to answer your question, what happened was I just

0:21:30.676 --> 0:21:32.036
<v Speaker 2>got really obsessed with the guitar.

0:21:32.196 --> 0:21:34.596
<v Speaker 3>I got my first proper one that I could play chords.

0:21:34.356 --> 0:21:36.676
<v Speaker 2>On when I was about eight or nine, and then

0:21:37.036 --> 0:21:38.876
<v Speaker 2>I started just trying to play the records on the

0:21:38.996 --> 0:21:41.836
<v Speaker 2>radio like a lot of people. So I started playing,

0:21:41.916 --> 0:21:44.636
<v Speaker 2>you know, like getting my own little tunes together and

0:21:44.636 --> 0:21:46.476
<v Speaker 2>stuff when I was about nine or ten, and then

0:21:46.916 --> 0:21:50.196
<v Speaker 2>enrolling my friends to be these little bands, and I

0:21:50.436 --> 0:21:53.276
<v Speaker 2>you know i'd write, I'd do just like t Rex ripoffs. Really,

0:21:53.316 --> 0:21:56.196
<v Speaker 2>all my songs were just like t Rex copies.

0:21:56.316 --> 0:21:58.076
<v Speaker 3>And then I just.

0:21:58.076 --> 0:22:00.476
<v Speaker 2>Had a sort of natural knack to be out of

0:22:00.476 --> 0:22:01.916
<v Speaker 2>place too kind of riffs.

0:22:02.396 --> 0:22:05.876
<v Speaker 3>But if i'd have been the sort of person who was,

0:22:06.916 --> 0:22:07.196
<v Speaker 3>you know.

0:22:07.316 --> 0:22:09.716
<v Speaker 2>Just in a copy of other people and not being

0:22:09.716 --> 0:22:13.836
<v Speaker 2>a songwriter, you know, I probably would have been shredding

0:22:13.876 --> 0:22:16.276
<v Speaker 2>away forever. But you know it's not really my thing

0:22:16.316 --> 0:22:19.036
<v Speaker 2>that really I wanted to sort of I went to

0:22:19.036 --> 0:22:20.916
<v Speaker 2>have my own band with my own sound, you know,

0:22:21.676 --> 0:22:23.756
<v Speaker 2>so the skill I have a master. I don't know

0:22:23.796 --> 0:22:27.116
<v Speaker 2>I is answering your question, but come back to hand Zimmer.

0:22:27.556 --> 0:22:31.396
<v Speaker 2>What I did on inception was pretty simple. But when

0:22:31.436 --> 0:22:34.636
<v Speaker 2>it came to actually playing it on stage with an orchestra,

0:22:35.196 --> 0:22:37.676
<v Speaker 2>like sixty pieces on stage with a choir and all

0:22:37.676 --> 0:22:39.636
<v Speaker 2>of that stuff, I wouldn't have ever been able to

0:22:39.716 --> 0:22:41.636
<v Speaker 2>do that when I was in my twenties. I wouldn't

0:22:41.636 --> 0:22:43.436
<v Speaker 2>have been able to do it in my thirties either, really,

0:22:43.716 --> 0:22:45.236
<v Speaker 2>and I might not have even come up with that

0:22:45.276 --> 0:22:46.116
<v Speaker 2>really simple part.

0:22:46.116 --> 0:22:48.556
<v Speaker 3>I think when you get older, you kind of know

0:22:48.596 --> 0:22:49.036
<v Speaker 3>what you're.

0:22:48.916 --> 0:22:53.676
<v Speaker 2>About, and it's about what I came up with was

0:22:53.716 --> 0:22:56.996
<v Speaker 2>kind of right for the movie, and I might not

0:22:56.996 --> 0:22:58.596
<v Speaker 2>have ever been able to do that when I was young.

0:22:58.796 --> 0:23:02.076
<v Speaker 2>But I practice every day. I go through periods where

0:23:02.836 --> 0:23:06.356
<v Speaker 2>I just practice practice, and then I play absent mindedly

0:23:06.436 --> 0:23:08.836
<v Speaker 2>when i'm you know, around the house and watching TV.

0:23:09.596 --> 0:23:13.076
<v Speaker 2>But I'm going through another phase now where I'll come

0:23:13.116 --> 0:23:15.876
<v Speaker 2>in this little studio here and put the headphones on

0:23:15.996 --> 0:23:19.036
<v Speaker 2>and and just play and play and try and get

0:23:19.236 --> 0:23:20.756
<v Speaker 2>you know, try and get my chops. So maybe that's

0:23:20.756 --> 0:23:23.516
<v Speaker 2>because I'm going out live or I don't know why,

0:23:23.556 --> 0:23:27.476
<v Speaker 2>but that connects me to the kidder was when I

0:23:27.516 --> 0:23:28.476
<v Speaker 2>was eleven or twelve.

0:23:29.516 --> 0:23:31.156
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, it's got nothing to do with career.

0:23:32.156 --> 0:23:34.356
<v Speaker 2>There's got nothing to do with the Smith's, got nothing

0:23:34.356 --> 0:23:36.436
<v Speaker 2>to do with like you know, Johnny Marra, or nothing

0:23:36.476 --> 0:23:39.116
<v Speaker 2>to do with business or anything.

0:23:39.236 --> 0:23:41.516
<v Speaker 3>It's because that was my first love. When I was

0:23:41.556 --> 0:23:42.156
<v Speaker 3>ten year eleven.

0:23:42.156 --> 0:23:44.156
<v Speaker 2>I used to peel off from when kids were playing

0:23:44.156 --> 0:23:46.556
<v Speaker 2>football or we were whatever, we were climbing trees or whatever.

0:23:47.116 --> 0:23:49.276
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I would just go and disappear and I'd go

0:23:49.316 --> 0:23:51.236
<v Speaker 2>into my room on my own and just play for

0:23:51.236 --> 0:23:53.116
<v Speaker 2>a couple of hours, not even plugged in. And I

0:23:53.236 --> 0:23:58.036
<v Speaker 2>make all these discoveries and moving chord shapes around. And

0:23:59.276 --> 0:24:03.156
<v Speaker 2>you know what, man, I'm so grateful that I still

0:24:03.596 --> 0:24:08.036
<v Speaker 2>want to do that. Yeah, for fun, It's like it's

0:24:08.036 --> 0:24:08.556
<v Speaker 2>my hobby.

0:24:09.436 --> 0:24:12.436
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's the dream for any guitar player to have

0:24:12.436 --> 0:24:14.796
<v Speaker 1>a setup, just like you have inspible to do that

0:24:14.876 --> 0:24:15.276
<v Speaker 1>all day.

0:24:15.276 --> 0:24:18.556
<v Speaker 3>That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, musician and.

0:24:18.556 --> 0:24:20.996
<v Speaker 1>You know whatever respective instrument is, like, that's the dream.

0:24:21.636 --> 0:24:22.116
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:24:22.156 --> 0:24:23.836
<v Speaker 2>But then when it comes time to do an album

0:24:23.916 --> 0:24:26.396
<v Speaker 2>sometimes I have to I know myself well enough that

0:24:26.796 --> 0:24:30.876
<v Speaker 2>I have to think about the guitar in a different way.

0:24:31.356 --> 0:24:33.236
<v Speaker 2>If you give me an if you give me three

0:24:33.276 --> 0:24:36.476
<v Speaker 2>more lifetimes, okay, I'd love to be John McLaughlin.

0:24:37.396 --> 0:24:39.116
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ah, but.

0:24:39.156 --> 0:24:40.276
<v Speaker 3>I'm also quite happy.

0:24:40.516 --> 0:24:43.116
<v Speaker 2>But I'm also really happy having been the guitar player

0:24:43.116 --> 0:24:44.476
<v Speaker 2>in Modest Mouse for a few years.

0:24:44.716 --> 0:24:45.916
<v Speaker 3>That's fine by me.

0:24:46.396 --> 0:24:50.356
<v Speaker 1>That was incredible work, man, incredible record.

0:24:50.876 --> 0:24:54.516
<v Speaker 2>That was because I was in a situation with amazing chemistry.

0:24:55.356 --> 0:24:59.796
<v Speaker 2>There was a moment when we were in Mississippi and

0:24:59.836 --> 0:25:02.556
<v Speaker 2>we were recording the recording. It's one of those times

0:25:02.796 --> 0:25:04.916
<v Speaker 2>it was like maybe what the four o'clock in the afternoon,

0:25:05.476 --> 0:25:08.116
<v Speaker 2>We've been trying to get the backing track down to

0:25:09.356 --> 0:25:12.636
<v Speaker 2>song on week three or whatever, and I was just

0:25:12.676 --> 0:25:15.036
<v Speaker 2>stood there and then I just had a moment of

0:25:16.276 --> 0:25:20.556
<v Speaker 2>present moment awareness, as you know, as it's called, where

0:25:21.396 --> 0:25:25.996
<v Speaker 2>I just looked around and I went the chemistry in

0:25:26.076 --> 0:25:30.316
<v Speaker 2>this room with these bunch of people is really really special.

0:25:31.036 --> 0:25:35.516
<v Speaker 2>This particular bunch of people right now is not just

0:25:35.636 --> 0:25:38.076
<v Speaker 2>a good vibe, but it's really unusual.

0:25:38.996 --> 0:25:40.876
<v Speaker 3>Because one we had two drummers in that band.

0:25:40.916 --> 0:25:43.796
<v Speaker 2>One drummer was his thing was like he might have

0:25:43.876 --> 0:25:46.556
<v Speaker 2>been like, Okay, on this track, I hear pair Ubu,

0:25:46.916 --> 0:25:50.516
<v Speaker 2>or I hear public image, public Image, or right hear

0:25:50.716 --> 0:25:51.636
<v Speaker 2>Stuart Copeland.

0:25:52.076 --> 0:25:54.116
<v Speaker 3>So Joe Plumm would be doing that. And then Jerey

0:25:54.156 --> 0:25:54.956
<v Speaker 3>Mike Green.

0:25:55.156 --> 0:25:58.596
<v Speaker 2>Who passed away just only a few months ago, he

0:25:58.716 --> 0:26:00.516
<v Speaker 2>was the other drummer, and he would have been going

0:26:00.556 --> 0:26:04.356
<v Speaker 2>in his head, oh, this is like fellow cootie, or

0:26:04.436 --> 0:26:06.716
<v Speaker 2>this is like a rave or so yeah, there's two

0:26:06.756 --> 0:26:10.516
<v Speaker 2>drummers like that. And then the base player, Eric Judy,

0:26:10.636 --> 0:26:14.836
<v Speaker 2>he was always writing these like little tunes on either

0:26:14.876 --> 0:26:17.636
<v Speaker 2>accordion at that time or he was teaching him yeah,

0:26:17.756 --> 0:26:20.636
<v Speaker 2>teaching himself the accordion, teach himself the flute. And he

0:26:20.876 --> 0:26:22.836
<v Speaker 2>had some little riff that he'd be playing on the flute,

0:26:22.876 --> 0:26:24.676
<v Speaker 2>and then he just go, oh, I'm just trying to

0:26:24.716 --> 0:26:28.916
<v Speaker 2>do that on the base. So yeah, these really unusual, cool,

0:26:29.276 --> 0:26:33.516
<v Speaker 2>almost dugby basslines. And then the other guy in the band,

0:26:33.636 --> 0:26:35.636
<v Speaker 2>he's a real utility guy, and he might have been

0:26:35.916 --> 0:26:38.356
<v Speaker 2>doing something on a pedal steel or his mind was

0:26:38.396 --> 0:26:39.076
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else.

0:26:39.356 --> 0:26:43.196
<v Speaker 3>And then Isaac's got his amazing multi.

0:26:42.956 --> 0:26:46.156
<v Speaker 2>Layered lyrical agenda that you know is coming from all

0:26:46.156 --> 0:26:50.036
<v Speaker 2>different places. And then I got my thing that I

0:26:50.116 --> 0:26:51.636
<v Speaker 2>was like when I got out of bed that day

0:26:51.716 --> 0:26:53.716
<v Speaker 2>or that week, I was going, this is what I

0:26:53.716 --> 0:26:55.396
<v Speaker 2>want my this is what I want to bring to

0:26:55.436 --> 0:26:58.956
<v Speaker 2>this outfit, whatever agenda I've got, and it all fit,

0:26:59.196 --> 0:27:00.476
<v Speaker 2>it all just fitted together.

0:27:01.196 --> 0:27:04.516
<v Speaker 1>Did you have to think through how you might blend

0:27:04.556 --> 0:27:06.356
<v Speaker 1>with this, because it seems like everyone felt like they

0:27:06.396 --> 0:27:08.796
<v Speaker 1>had their thing and you're kind of getting put into it.

0:27:08.916 --> 0:27:09.116
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:27:09.356 --> 0:27:11.036
<v Speaker 1>Did it take you second to figure out, Okay, this

0:27:11.076 --> 0:27:12.796
<v Speaker 1>is what I want to bring or was it kinda

0:27:13.156 --> 0:27:14.716
<v Speaker 1>just luckily instantaneous.

0:27:15.076 --> 0:27:18.556
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I conceptualized it, which I don't mean for

0:27:18.796 --> 0:27:22.396
<v Speaker 2>to sound very dry or contrived, even though No, I

0:27:22.596 --> 0:27:26.116
<v Speaker 2>really enjoyed going, what's my role here? How can I

0:27:26.196 --> 0:27:34.036
<v Speaker 2>be really useful and bring something melodic, catchy, technical. It

0:27:34.156 --> 0:27:37.276
<v Speaker 2>was a little like Ocean six and I happened to

0:27:37.316 --> 0:27:40.876
<v Speaker 2>be the kind of British bomb disposal expert or this safer.

0:27:41.196 --> 0:27:41.956
<v Speaker 3>I was like the safe.

0:27:42.996 --> 0:27:43.476
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:27:43.636 --> 0:27:44.716
<v Speaker 3>No, I really enjoyed that.

0:27:44.796 --> 0:27:47.196
<v Speaker 2>I thought, okay, I can't just put my head down

0:27:47.236 --> 0:27:50.076
<v Speaker 2>and go one, two, three four and just play. I

0:27:50.156 --> 0:27:54.996
<v Speaker 2>really really enjoyed devising all these parts, and on that

0:27:55.116 --> 0:27:59.636
<v Speaker 2>record we were dead for anyone who's interested. Usually I'm

0:27:59.676 --> 0:28:01.436
<v Speaker 2>doing all the stuff on the left and Isaac's doing

0:28:01.476 --> 0:28:03.756
<v Speaker 2>the stuff on the right, and we this might be

0:28:03.756 --> 0:28:06.716
<v Speaker 2>getting a bit too music. But when we were coming

0:28:06.756 --> 0:28:08.476
<v Speaker 2>up with all those songs and those parts, we were

0:28:08.476 --> 0:28:12.716
<v Speaker 2>in this attic in Portland, and sometimes Isaac and the

0:28:12.756 --> 0:28:15.236
<v Speaker 2>way I started to think about it, it was like, you know,

0:28:15.676 --> 0:28:18.356
<v Speaker 2>two racing car drivers that were on the same team,

0:28:18.396 --> 0:28:21.476
<v Speaker 2>you know, like sometimes that McLaren and stuff the same team,

0:28:21.676 --> 0:28:23.796
<v Speaker 2>and we're both going around this track and then sometimes

0:28:23.836 --> 0:28:26.476
<v Speaker 2>it's like no after you, no after you, after you,

0:28:26.596 --> 0:28:30.796
<v Speaker 2>And occasionally we literally physically crashed into each other because

0:28:30.836 --> 0:28:34.076
<v Speaker 2>we were stood either back to back or next to

0:28:34.116 --> 0:28:35.116
<v Speaker 2>each other in this kind of.

0:28:35.036 --> 0:28:37.036
<v Speaker 3>Little space, and it was really hot.

0:28:37.116 --> 0:28:39.356
<v Speaker 2>And we're up there and we've been out there for hours,

0:28:39.356 --> 0:28:42.636
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes we'd be a bit buzzed and I'm really

0:28:42.996 --> 0:28:44.756
<v Speaker 2>really listening to each other and I'm trying to Then

0:28:44.756 --> 0:28:46.996
<v Speaker 2>I'll just jump up the octave and then he plays

0:28:47.036 --> 0:28:50.156
<v Speaker 2>something and I'd go, I'll get down there and literally

0:28:50.236 --> 0:28:51.956
<v Speaker 2>we sometimes we bang into each other.

0:28:51.996 --> 0:28:54.116
<v Speaker 3>And I thought that was really cool.

0:28:54.516 --> 0:28:58.196
<v Speaker 1>Wow, howd you add that level of chemistry before, like

0:28:58.276 --> 0:28:59.956
<v Speaker 1>that level of intense.

0:29:00.876 --> 0:29:03.476
<v Speaker 2>In a different way, yeah, in the the but it

0:29:03.516 --> 0:29:05.836
<v Speaker 2>was a different thing with all the bands that I've

0:29:05.836 --> 0:29:09.236
<v Speaker 2>actually been a band member of. I think I bring

0:29:09.636 --> 0:29:12.796
<v Speaker 2>a certain kind of intensity and a sort of belief

0:29:12.836 --> 0:29:16.916
<v Speaker 2>in that even without my guitar, and I think I

0:29:17.356 --> 0:29:20.356
<v Speaker 2>bring a sort of belief in the mission because I

0:29:20.396 --> 0:29:21.796
<v Speaker 2>think that's very useful in a band.

0:29:22.036 --> 0:29:25.036
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm all in. I think people realize that now.

0:29:25.036 --> 0:29:27.036
<v Speaker 2>It used to frustrate me when I was younger, when

0:29:27.036 --> 0:29:30.356
<v Speaker 2>the precious report it, because you know, when I was young,

0:29:30.396 --> 0:29:32.356
<v Speaker 2>guys to be a little oh, it looks like I'm

0:29:32.396 --> 0:29:32.916
<v Speaker 2>just bailing.

0:29:32.996 --> 0:29:34.796
<v Speaker 3>I'm leaving this band and I'm leaving that band.

0:29:34.796 --> 0:29:37.476
<v Speaker 2>But after all these years, now I think people realize

0:29:37.516 --> 0:29:39.596
<v Speaker 2>that it's anyone who's interested.

0:29:40.316 --> 0:29:41.876
<v Speaker 3>It's probably the reverse, you.

0:29:41.836 --> 0:29:44.556
<v Speaker 2>Know, like when I if I join a band, I'm

0:29:44.596 --> 0:29:48.236
<v Speaker 2>really in and my family and my family moved to Portland.

0:29:48.516 --> 0:29:51.396
<v Speaker 2>Or when I was in the cribs, you know, I

0:29:51.436 --> 0:29:54.196
<v Speaker 2>got in the van and I played all the shows,

0:29:54.236 --> 0:29:57.036
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I don't I don't expect any other

0:29:57.156 --> 0:30:00.636
<v Speaker 2>kind of separate treatment. I really get get in because

0:30:01.116 --> 0:30:03.156
<v Speaker 2>it's the way I was when I was fifteen in bands.

0:30:03.156 --> 0:30:05.436
<v Speaker 3>It's no different that it's so cool.

0:30:06.116 --> 0:30:09.076
<v Speaker 1>Was it because of that level of chemistry that you realize, well,

0:30:09.156 --> 0:30:11.396
<v Speaker 1>I'm part of the band or was it already sort

0:30:11.436 --> 0:30:13.356
<v Speaker 1>of decided you're sort of in for the ride at

0:30:13.356 --> 0:30:13.796
<v Speaker 1>this point?

0:30:13.956 --> 0:30:15.676
<v Speaker 2>Now? Do you know what the very first night we

0:30:15.756 --> 0:30:18.796
<v Speaker 2>got together, Isaac and I wrote that the song that

0:30:18.996 --> 0:30:22.516
<v Speaker 2>with that single dashboard became the single. And then I

0:30:22.556 --> 0:30:25.156
<v Speaker 2>woke up really jet like that about whatever four o'clock

0:30:25.156 --> 0:30:27.396
<v Speaker 2>in the morning because I'd only got in from England

0:30:27.436 --> 0:30:29.396
<v Speaker 2>the day before, and I woke up on a can

0:30:29.476 --> 0:30:31.276
<v Speaker 2>of was like, where am I, Oh, I'm in a

0:30:31.276 --> 0:30:34.236
<v Speaker 2>hotel in Portland. Did we just write like a really cool,

0:30:34.436 --> 0:30:37.756
<v Speaker 2>cool song with this guy? In fact, we wrote two

0:30:37.836 --> 0:30:40.436
<v Speaker 2>songs that night. We wrote another one called We've Got

0:30:40.476 --> 0:30:44.156
<v Speaker 2>everything that was me and him, and then frankly, because

0:30:44.196 --> 0:30:47.316
<v Speaker 2>Maddi's mouth had paid for this English guitar player to

0:30:47.396 --> 0:30:49.956
<v Speaker 2>come over for ten days, they had to kind of

0:30:49.956 --> 0:30:53.076
<v Speaker 2>get to rehearsal for noon because you know, they've paid

0:30:53.076 --> 0:30:55.156
<v Speaker 2>for my flight. And it's kind of like a little

0:30:55.196 --> 0:30:57.796
<v Speaker 2>bit like, all right, everybody, you know, you know the

0:30:57.876 --> 0:31:00.876
<v Speaker 2>ringers here or whatever. We better get we better get here, right.

0:31:01.116 --> 0:31:03.516
<v Speaker 2>But quite cleverly Isaac had done it, so a couple

0:31:03.556 --> 0:31:06.556
<v Speaker 2>of members would join. Each day we'd come, me and

0:31:06.556 --> 0:31:09.676
<v Speaker 2>them would feel each other out. So as the days

0:31:09.716 --> 0:31:13.516
<v Speaker 2>went on, with each couple of people that arrived, and

0:31:13.556 --> 0:31:15.476
<v Speaker 2>we would jam and get a new song, and jam

0:31:15.476 --> 0:31:19.236
<v Speaker 2>and get a new song. Very quickly, I was just like,

0:31:19.676 --> 0:31:23.956
<v Speaker 2>I like these guys, they like me. There's such a

0:31:23.996 --> 0:31:29.276
<v Speaker 2>positive feeling. Everyone's so enthusiastic. Something's really happening here. And

0:31:29.316 --> 0:31:31.716
<v Speaker 2>I formed a manager and I said, listen, I'm suppose

0:31:31.756 --> 0:31:33.876
<v Speaker 2>to be flying back on Wednesday or whatever. I'm going

0:31:33.956 --> 0:31:35.636
<v Speaker 2>to stay. I'm going to stay for a few weeks.

0:31:35.916 --> 0:31:39.036
<v Speaker 2>And I fell in love with Portland the city. This

0:31:39.156 --> 0:31:41.996
<v Speaker 2>was two thousand and five. So to answer your question,

0:31:43.396 --> 0:31:45.476
<v Speaker 2>by the time you get that sort of brotherhood going

0:31:45.516 --> 0:31:47.756
<v Speaker 2>in a band and you're all really excited, and also

0:31:47.796 --> 0:31:51.676
<v Speaker 2>you're playing together these long hours, you know, six seven hours,

0:31:51.716 --> 0:31:53.116
<v Speaker 2>and you've got a song and you want to fix

0:31:53.156 --> 0:31:53.716
<v Speaker 2>it the next.

0:31:53.636 --> 0:31:56.956
<v Speaker 3>Day, and you're working on this thing. It was that simple.

0:31:57.276 --> 0:31:59.236
<v Speaker 3>It just would have been really weird to bail.

0:32:00.276 --> 0:32:02.276
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ten days an out after building that.

0:32:02.996 --> 0:32:05.276
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And then that turned into two weeks and then

0:32:05.316 --> 0:32:08.116
<v Speaker 2>three weeks, and then we're all talking excitedly about, Oh man,

0:32:08.156 --> 0:32:09.556
<v Speaker 2>are you're going to would it be gratefully?

0:32:09.516 --> 0:32:10.796
<v Speaker 3>You did some gigs and.

0:32:10.676 --> 0:32:13.356
<v Speaker 2>I was like, wow, And the key thing is I

0:32:13.436 --> 0:32:15.876
<v Speaker 2>really start to I've done this with a few projects.

0:32:16.276 --> 0:32:19.516
<v Speaker 2>I start to really care about the songs we're making.

0:32:19.956 --> 0:32:22.036
<v Speaker 2>I really really care about them, even if.

0:32:21.956 --> 0:32:24.036
<v Speaker 3>I haven't written, like in the the.

0:32:24.956 --> 0:32:27.676
<v Speaker 2>You know, my relationship with Matt Johnson, I really believed

0:32:27.676 --> 0:32:30.076
<v Speaker 2>in what he was doing and some songs, you know,

0:32:30.116 --> 0:32:32.876
<v Speaker 2>we would make these backing tracks and he'd be like,

0:32:33.876 --> 0:32:36.076
<v Speaker 2>you know, soul searching about the lyrics and this isn't

0:32:36.156 --> 0:32:38.116
<v Speaker 2>right and that isn't right. And I felt like I

0:32:38.156 --> 0:32:40.156
<v Speaker 2>was going through all of that with him, you know.

0:32:40.196 --> 0:32:44.196
<v Speaker 2>And we did this album Dusking in ninety two. But

0:32:44.236 --> 0:32:47.036
<v Speaker 2>that's what I mean about being all in. You know,

0:32:47.196 --> 0:32:50.356
<v Speaker 2>people don't really know that about about me. You know,

0:32:50.996 --> 0:32:53.676
<v Speaker 2>I'm twenty four to seven. If I'm in a band, how.

0:32:53.676 --> 0:32:56.396
<v Speaker 1>Does that translate to when you're when you're leading your

0:32:56.396 --> 0:32:56.836
<v Speaker 1>own group.

0:32:57.556 --> 0:33:01.396
<v Speaker 2>It's very different with my own band because it's a

0:33:01.436 --> 0:33:04.996
<v Speaker 2>different scenario. With my band, they're there, we've had we've

0:33:04.996 --> 0:33:07.116
<v Speaker 2>been together now ten years, the same lineup.

0:33:07.676 --> 0:33:08.556
<v Speaker 3>We all live in.

0:33:08.436 --> 0:33:12.756
<v Speaker 2>The same postcode pretty much, but we all hey, look,

0:33:12.796 --> 0:33:14.716
<v Speaker 2>we all live within ten miles of each other, which

0:33:14.756 --> 0:33:17.316
<v Speaker 2>is kind of unusual for guys of our age. I've

0:33:17.356 --> 0:33:19.596
<v Speaker 2>been in bands where people live in different cities, in

0:33:19.636 --> 0:33:20.436
<v Speaker 2>different countries.

0:33:21.316 --> 0:33:22.716
<v Speaker 3>That was a very deliberate thing.

0:33:22.716 --> 0:33:25.596
<v Speaker 2>When I came back from Portland, I moved to Manchester,

0:33:25.756 --> 0:33:28.556
<v Speaker 2>not because it's my hometown. I moved here because it's

0:33:28.596 --> 0:33:31.196
<v Speaker 2>a really great place to run a group, and I

0:33:31.236 --> 0:33:33.836
<v Speaker 2>knew these musicians and I wanted for us to all

0:33:34.236 --> 0:33:36.356
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be at a call a rehearsal for

0:33:36.436 --> 0:33:38.156
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow night and we all be able to get there.

0:33:38.276 --> 0:33:40.716
<v Speaker 3>Someone doesn't have to get on a train or a plane, right.

0:33:40.796 --> 0:33:44.196
<v Speaker 2>So, But why it's different in my band is I

0:33:44.236 --> 0:33:47.156
<v Speaker 2>write songs and then I bring them to the band

0:33:47.556 --> 0:33:51.476
<v Speaker 2>and they learn them and we learn them up and

0:33:52.356 --> 0:33:53.876
<v Speaker 2>I kind of run it and that's the way they

0:33:54.036 --> 0:33:54.556
<v Speaker 2>like it, you know.

0:33:54.596 --> 0:33:56.196
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we're really very much a group.

0:33:56.476 --> 0:34:02.036
<v Speaker 2>But all the torturous I guess, the torturous process where

0:34:02.036 --> 0:34:04.996
<v Speaker 2>the singer, which is me in this case, is soul

0:34:05.116 --> 0:34:08.236
<v Speaker 2>searching about lyrics and all that. My guys just lead

0:34:08.316 --> 0:34:10.116
<v Speaker 2>me to it and they say, up, give me a

0:34:10.116 --> 0:34:11.236
<v Speaker 2>call when you've got the thing done.

0:34:11.276 --> 0:34:13.396
<v Speaker 3>Man, the bastards.

0:34:14.036 --> 0:34:18.636
<v Speaker 2>So in a way, I suppose in my experience, my

0:34:18.796 --> 0:34:23.556
<v Speaker 2>band when we first got together, the closest that i'd seen.

0:34:23.636 --> 0:34:25.876
<v Speaker 2>It's a bit It's like I have a sort of

0:34:25.916 --> 0:34:29.956
<v Speaker 2>Beck's band. We kind of when we started, we kind

0:34:29.956 --> 0:34:32.636
<v Speaker 2>of went, that's kind of the yardstick for the kind

0:34:32.636 --> 0:34:36.036
<v Speaker 2>of music, like a British version of that. Really oh cool,

0:34:36.396 --> 0:34:38.156
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, Like when you go and

0:34:38.156 --> 0:34:41.116
<v Speaker 2>see Beck. It was like really tight and the tempos

0:34:41.116 --> 0:34:44.196
<v Speaker 2>were usually the tempos were up, and the drummers drums

0:34:44.196 --> 0:34:47.756
<v Speaker 2>were really snappy, and he was a leader. But they

0:34:47.756 --> 0:34:50.516
<v Speaker 2>were also a band, you know, but you knew the

0:34:50.556 --> 0:34:53.036
<v Speaker 2>guy was going to have a good band. I kind

0:34:53.036 --> 0:34:55.196
<v Speaker 2>of decided with my band that that's the way I

0:34:55.196 --> 0:34:57.076
<v Speaker 2>wanted us to be really a bit like Beck's band.

0:34:57.876 --> 0:35:00.276
<v Speaker 1>Well, what makes Manchester a great place to sort of

0:35:00.316 --> 0:35:01.116
<v Speaker 1>run a band out of?

0:35:01.916 --> 0:35:05.716
<v Speaker 2>Well, what Seattle was to La in the nineties, Manchester

0:35:05.916 --> 0:35:07.996
<v Speaker 2>is that to London, do you know what I mean?

0:35:08.076 --> 0:35:11.876
<v Speaker 2>So where being a musician's a little easier in Manchester's

0:35:11.916 --> 0:35:15.916
<v Speaker 2>now like well books like Seattle is very there's a

0:35:15.956 --> 0:35:17.476
<v Speaker 2>lot of money in it.

0:35:17.476 --> 0:35:21.636
<v Speaker 3>It's a second city, So so London.

0:35:22.316 --> 0:35:24.836
<v Speaker 2>If you're a musician, okay, and you've got to get rehearsal,

0:35:24.916 --> 0:35:27.036
<v Speaker 2>it takes you twice a length of time to get

0:35:27.076 --> 0:35:29.756
<v Speaker 2>to rehearsal space as it does in Manchester. People are

0:35:29.956 --> 0:35:32.116
<v Speaker 2>usually am I love London and there all the time,

0:35:32.476 --> 0:35:34.916
<v Speaker 2>but musicians have to live quite a long way out

0:35:34.996 --> 0:35:37.716
<v Speaker 2>of town because it's really expensive to have apartments there

0:35:37.756 --> 0:35:40.356
<v Speaker 2>and all of this sort of stuff. Manchester is a

0:35:40.396 --> 0:35:43.636
<v Speaker 2>little bit more, is a little more like Seattle. And

0:35:43.836 --> 0:35:46.116
<v Speaker 2>you know, like Seattle, it had a big movement. It

0:35:46.276 --> 0:35:49.996
<v Speaker 2>rains a lot like Seattle, so it's an indoor culture.

0:35:50.236 --> 0:35:51.796
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole load of things, you know, just in

0:35:53.036 --> 0:35:54.996
<v Speaker 2>historically make Manchester really great to.

0:35:54.996 --> 0:35:58.716
<v Speaker 3>Run to run Well, there's a history here as well.

0:35:58.796 --> 0:36:02.076
<v Speaker 2>So for me in my generation, I grew up knowing like, well,

0:36:02.116 --> 0:36:05.516
<v Speaker 2>the Buzzcocks did it, okay, I mean yeah, Buzcocks. I

0:36:05.556 --> 0:36:08.956
<v Speaker 2>mean they were just like gods to my generation, Buzzcocks,

0:36:09.356 --> 0:36:11.836
<v Speaker 2>that you didn't have to live in the capital, that

0:36:11.956 --> 0:36:15.556
<v Speaker 2>you could live in the provinces and make great, really.

0:36:15.276 --> 0:36:18.316
<v Speaker 3>Cool music, because before that it was just it.

0:36:18.316 --> 0:36:20.436
<v Speaker 2>Was all about London, London, London. All these bands it

0:36:20.516 --> 0:36:23.716
<v Speaker 2>was either London and La really London La. So you've

0:36:23.716 --> 0:36:27.156
<v Speaker 2>got a heritage. And then so because Buscox did it,

0:36:27.396 --> 0:36:29.996
<v Speaker 2>Smith raised to do it, and the Fall, and then

0:36:30.036 --> 0:36:32.556
<v Speaker 2>because a New Order and joy Division and because the

0:36:32.596 --> 0:36:35.156
<v Speaker 2>Smiths and Joy Vision and New Order did it, then

0:36:35.756 --> 0:36:37.956
<v Speaker 2>Happy Mondays and Stone Roses knew they could do it.

0:36:37.996 --> 0:36:40.116
<v Speaker 2>And then because they could saw that, you know, they

0:36:40.156 --> 0:36:42.476
<v Speaker 2>did it, then Oasis saw that they could do it,

0:36:42.516 --> 0:36:43.036
<v Speaker 2>and so on.

0:36:43.476 --> 0:36:47.116
<v Speaker 3>Youngsters know that you can be a Manchester band, you know.

0:36:47.276 --> 0:36:49.396
<v Speaker 2>And so that goes back, that goes right back to

0:36:49.436 --> 0:36:51.236
<v Speaker 2>the seventies now with Buzzcocks.

0:36:51.316 --> 0:36:52.356
<v Speaker 3>So having that.

0:36:52.276 --> 0:36:54.956
<v Speaker 2>In the air and knowing that it's a musical town

0:36:55.796 --> 0:36:57.516
<v Speaker 2>is a good place to sort of grow up around

0:36:57.516 --> 0:37:01.196
<v Speaker 2>when you're a fledging musician. But really it goes way

0:37:01.196 --> 0:37:04.636
<v Speaker 2>back historically to like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies when

0:37:05.076 --> 0:37:08.436
<v Speaker 2>Manchester was literally the industrial capital of the world and

0:37:08.476 --> 0:37:11.996
<v Speaker 2>the industrial evolution, and all the immigrants came so from

0:37:12.556 --> 0:37:15.676
<v Speaker 2>really everywhere, Eastern Europe and the Caribbean and West Indies

0:37:15.676 --> 0:37:18.236
<v Speaker 2>and Ireland in my case, and all of this business.

0:37:18.636 --> 0:37:21.516
<v Speaker 2>So there's it's a real melting pot Manchester of working

0:37:21.556 --> 0:37:25.556
<v Speaker 2>class immigrants and they all brought their own cultures and

0:37:25.596 --> 0:37:28.796
<v Speaker 2>their own need for entertainment. So a lot of comedians,

0:37:28.876 --> 0:37:30.996
<v Speaker 2>Jewish comedians came out here. A lot of people came

0:37:31.036 --> 0:37:34.636
<v Speaker 2>from Eastern Europe. In my case, you know, a lot

0:37:34.636 --> 0:37:37.316
<v Speaker 2>of my family they moved over in the early sixties

0:37:37.316 --> 0:37:40.476
<v Speaker 2>and they came over to work in construction and building the.

0:37:40.476 --> 0:37:41.556
<v Speaker 3>Roads and all of this stuff.

0:37:41.596 --> 0:37:45.196
<v Speaker 2>The Irish and my parents went to all the Irish

0:37:45.236 --> 0:37:46.996
<v Speaker 2>clubs and they would see all the show bands, and

0:37:47.796 --> 0:37:51.196
<v Speaker 2>me and my sister would go sometimes to these places

0:37:51.196 --> 0:37:53.076
<v Speaker 2>in the afternoon where my dad was a booker for

0:37:53.116 --> 0:37:55.156
<v Speaker 2>these bands, and so we grew up around.

0:37:55.276 --> 0:37:56.996
<v Speaker 1>Your dad booked bands.

0:37:57.196 --> 0:37:57.956
<v Speaker 3>Yeah he did, you.

0:38:00.076 --> 0:38:04.036
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that was in the seventies. Me and my

0:38:04.076 --> 0:38:07.236
<v Speaker 2>sister would be there, we'd be giving like soda and

0:38:08.196 --> 0:38:10.956
<v Speaker 2>just loads of loads of sugar, and I'd sit there

0:38:10.996 --> 0:38:13.956
<v Speaker 2>and I'd watch these cabaret singers and they'd be their

0:38:14.036 --> 0:38:17.076
<v Speaker 2>vocal their microphones would be going into a space echo

0:38:17.196 --> 0:38:21.236
<v Speaker 2>or a tape echo Watkins Copycat, and there'd be an

0:38:21.356 --> 0:38:23.956
<v Speaker 2>organ player and a drummer and if I was looking

0:38:23.956 --> 0:38:26.436
<v Speaker 2>at the big guitar player, and they'd be playing all

0:38:26.436 --> 0:38:29.596
<v Speaker 2>these kind of seventy songs, and I thought that was amazing.

0:38:30.116 --> 0:38:32.236
<v Speaker 2>I just watched these being my sister, watched these bands

0:38:32.316 --> 0:38:35.796
<v Speaker 2>be like, holy shit, this is great. And sometimes I'd go, no,

0:38:35.916 --> 0:38:37.796
<v Speaker 2>they're not too good, Dad, Now they're not too good.

0:38:37.836 --> 0:38:41.476
<v Speaker 2>But just seeing the amplifiers and the electric guitars and

0:38:41.516 --> 0:38:43.436
<v Speaker 2>all that, I would have been like nine or ten.

0:38:43.636 --> 0:38:46.156
<v Speaker 3>I thought that was magic. Yeah. Wow.

0:38:46.476 --> 0:38:49.836
<v Speaker 1>So your dad did construction and then somehow got into

0:38:49.876 --> 0:38:50.516
<v Speaker 1>booking beat.

0:38:50.756 --> 0:38:52.956
<v Speaker 2>What was that, Well, that was to do with the

0:38:52.956 --> 0:38:55.476
<v Speaker 2>Catholic That was to do with the Catholic Church because

0:38:55.516 --> 0:38:58.636
<v Speaker 2>he was numb. So he's a working class Irish guys

0:38:58.636 --> 0:39:01.316
<v Speaker 2>are saying, be laid pipes, he dug holes in the

0:39:01.396 --> 0:39:04.276
<v Speaker 2>road and dad, they're very proud of it. But to

0:39:04.316 --> 0:39:07.996
<v Speaker 2>do with the Catholic Church, big Irish thing. They would

0:39:07.996 --> 0:39:11.636
<v Speaker 2>have bands on on a Friday and a Saturday night,

0:39:12.236 --> 0:39:15.156
<v Speaker 2>and all these bands would go an audition in these

0:39:15.276 --> 0:39:18.716
<v Speaker 2>bars or these pubs, usually on a Sunday afternoon.

0:39:19.116 --> 0:39:21.916
<v Speaker 3>And all of these used to call themselves agents.

0:39:22.076 --> 0:39:25.036
<v Speaker 2>But all these people who could say, hey, listen, come

0:39:25.076 --> 0:39:28.876
<v Speaker 2>and play at my social club for fifty pounds, So

0:39:28.956 --> 0:39:31.916
<v Speaker 2>they would go an audition for people like my dad, you.

0:39:31.836 --> 0:39:33.516
<v Speaker 1>Know, so amazing.

0:39:34.036 --> 0:39:36.156
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean they weren't all that great, but

0:39:36.236 --> 0:39:37.236
<v Speaker 2>to me it was magic.

0:39:38.116 --> 0:39:40.396
<v Speaker 1>There must have been an education onto itself, you know,

0:39:40.516 --> 0:39:43.036
<v Speaker 1>in terms of how to be and on stage, and

0:39:43.276 --> 0:39:43.556
<v Speaker 1>you know.

0:39:43.516 --> 0:39:46.916
<v Speaker 3>One hundred per one hundred percent what it was was.

0:39:47.036 --> 0:39:49.356
<v Speaker 2>The big thing for me was that I when I

0:39:49.396 --> 0:39:52.836
<v Speaker 2>watched these bands set up their equipment when I was

0:39:52.876 --> 0:39:56.156
<v Speaker 2>about seven or eight at these parties. So this was

0:39:56.156 --> 0:39:58.156
<v Speaker 2>a little early because we used to have these bands

0:39:58.156 --> 0:40:01.636
<v Speaker 2>play at christena It'd been out reinforce the cultural stereotype.

0:40:01.636 --> 0:40:03.756
<v Speaker 2>But there was a lot of Christenings and a lot

0:40:03.796 --> 0:40:07.996
<v Speaker 2>of weddings, and.

0:40:06.756 --> 0:40:08.836
<v Speaker 3>My aunties and uncles I used to have these bands

0:40:08.836 --> 0:40:09.436
<v Speaker 3>come play.

0:40:09.796 --> 0:40:12.956
<v Speaker 2>But when I saw these adults setting up the equipment,

0:40:13.356 --> 0:40:15.156
<v Speaker 2>that was when it occurred to me that, oh, this

0:40:15.196 --> 0:40:20.236
<v Speaker 2>is a job. Ah, he's nearly always guys, these guys,

0:40:20.276 --> 0:40:22.236
<v Speaker 2>and I see the same people, the same guys, and

0:40:22.436 --> 0:40:25.036
<v Speaker 2>they'd be bringing their amplifiers and someone setting the drum kit.

0:40:25.076 --> 0:40:28.356
<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, Oh, as an adult, you can do that.

0:40:28.396 --> 0:40:30.276
<v Speaker 2>It's not just people on the television. Because on the

0:40:30.276 --> 0:40:35.396
<v Speaker 2>television I just see these bands magically appear and looking great,

0:40:35.716 --> 0:40:37.076
<v Speaker 2>you know, with the velvet.

0:40:36.716 --> 0:40:37.756
<v Speaker 3>Suits on and all of this.

0:40:38.076 --> 0:40:40.596
<v Speaker 2>And I'd actually see these men setting up their equipment

0:40:40.636 --> 0:40:44.716
<v Speaker 2>and pulling these amplifiers and feeding back and testing.

0:40:44.596 --> 0:40:48.596
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, where do I sign up for that? Wow,

0:40:48.676 --> 0:40:49.876
<v Speaker 3>that looks like a great job.

0:40:50.676 --> 0:40:54.516
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and your parents must have been thrilled as much

0:40:54.556 --> 0:40:56.316
<v Speaker 1>as in the music as they are that you started

0:40:56.356 --> 0:40:59.276
<v Speaker 1>thinking that way, right, Yeah, you know, I.

0:40:59.396 --> 0:41:01.436
<v Speaker 3>Think a lot of people can probably relate to this.

0:41:01.516 --> 0:41:05.556
<v Speaker 2>They were absolutely thrilled until at fifteen I decided or

0:41:05.596 --> 0:41:09.276
<v Speaker 2>fourteen decided that I was going to go through it

0:41:09.556 --> 0:41:14.356
<v Speaker 2>and not go to school. So now that it's worked

0:41:14.356 --> 0:41:16.236
<v Speaker 2>out and I've actually, you know, it's my day job,

0:41:16.556 --> 0:41:19.396
<v Speaker 2>they're really really proud. Much more than the fact that

0:41:19.436 --> 0:41:21.956
<v Speaker 2>I'm famous. They're just really proud that I'm a full

0:41:21.996 --> 0:41:26.796
<v Speaker 2>time guitar player. Seriously, and if I ever make records

0:41:26.796 --> 0:41:28.996
<v Speaker 2>where there's not enough guitar on it. I kind of

0:41:29.036 --> 0:41:35.596
<v Speaker 2>get to hear about it and yeah, but you know,

0:41:35.716 --> 0:41:38.676
<v Speaker 2>mount craft work. No, it's okay, I'm playing I'm playing

0:41:38.756 --> 0:41:41.236
<v Speaker 2>synth on this one. So they proud of that. But

0:41:42.076 --> 0:41:43.596
<v Speaker 2>you know, like a lot of teenagers, you know, I

0:41:43.636 --> 0:41:46.316
<v Speaker 2>went through kind of a pretty rebellious and rough patch.

0:41:46.876 --> 0:41:49.116
<v Speaker 2>We went through a kind of a bit of a

0:41:49.556 --> 0:41:53.556
<v Speaker 2>you know, typical sort of rebellious kind of They were

0:41:53.556 --> 0:41:56.956
<v Speaker 2>worried that when I stopped going to school and was

0:41:57.076 --> 0:42:00.876
<v Speaker 2>very obviously you know, taking drugs and spending all my

0:42:00.916 --> 0:42:04.716
<v Speaker 2>time with these reprobates. But it was all really wrapped

0:42:04.756 --> 0:42:07.996
<v Speaker 2>up with the music as well. It wasn't just hedonistic stuff.

0:42:07.996 --> 0:42:09.636
<v Speaker 3>I joined the band. Thing was I joined the band

0:42:09.636 --> 0:42:12.476
<v Speaker 3>when I was fifteen, who have adults who were.

0:42:12.436 --> 0:42:17.836
<v Speaker 2>Very dubious, and my parents kind of said, well, it's

0:42:17.836 --> 0:42:19.476
<v Speaker 2>either that or you have to get out.

0:42:19.756 --> 0:42:22.996
<v Speaker 3>So I just left harm you know, but just got it.

0:42:24.396 --> 0:42:26.876
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that was a bit contentious, and you know,

0:42:26.996 --> 0:42:29.716
<v Speaker 2>so I was a little wild at fifteen sixteen.

0:42:29.796 --> 0:42:31.556
<v Speaker 1>But what was your sister thinking.

0:42:32.356 --> 0:42:35.756
<v Speaker 2>My sister was the mediator. She was the great mediator.

0:42:35.876 --> 0:42:37.916
<v Speaker 2>She's only eleven months younger than me. We were very

0:42:37.956 --> 0:42:40.716
<v Speaker 2>tight and still are, you know. But it's a funny

0:42:40.716 --> 0:42:42.676
<v Speaker 2>one because yeah, they were proud of me being a musician.

0:42:42.676 --> 0:42:44.596
<v Speaker 2>But I think when I actually was like, listen, I'm

0:42:44.596 --> 0:42:46.036
<v Speaker 2>going to go for it, and I'm going to go

0:42:46.116 --> 0:42:48.676
<v Speaker 2>to London and I'm gonna even though you know, I

0:42:48.716 --> 0:42:51.036
<v Speaker 2>had no money whatsoever, and I'm going to join this

0:42:51.116 --> 0:42:55.156
<v Speaker 2>band and these adults. So they were very obviously kind

0:42:55.156 --> 0:42:58.636
<v Speaker 2>of dangerous characters. You know, they're pretty druggy. They sounded

0:42:58.676 --> 0:43:03.196
<v Speaker 2>like a cross between Hawkwind and I guess the Stooges.

0:43:03.876 --> 0:43:06.276
<v Speaker 2>Of course, sister Ray. I think their tracks up on YouTube.

0:43:06.276 --> 0:43:08.756
<v Speaker 2>It's got a song called Suicide. So because he'd made

0:43:08.756 --> 0:43:11.756
<v Speaker 2>a record, they sought me out at fifteen, right, and

0:43:11.836 --> 0:43:13.476
<v Speaker 2>they were like coming be in the band, and I'm

0:43:13.476 --> 0:43:15.716
<v Speaker 2>pretty sure I said, listen, you are aware that I'm

0:43:16.116 --> 0:43:19.436
<v Speaker 2>I am fifteen or fourteen even I think I didn't

0:43:19.436 --> 0:43:21.316
<v Speaker 2>want it to be a freak show, and they were like, hey, listen, now,

0:43:21.356 --> 0:43:24.556
<v Speaker 2>come on, come on, it'll be cool. So I used

0:43:24.556 --> 0:43:26.396
<v Speaker 2>to go to their rehearsal a couple of times a

0:43:26.436 --> 0:43:29.196
<v Speaker 2>week and it was the Red Light area, really kind

0:43:29.236 --> 0:43:31.156
<v Speaker 2>of rough area in Manchester. A couple of nights a

0:43:31.156 --> 0:43:36.316
<v Speaker 2>week and to subsidize that, I used to sell clothes

0:43:36.476 --> 0:43:39.996
<v Speaker 2>my pals and working clothes shops. But anyway I left,

0:43:40.076 --> 0:43:41.676
<v Speaker 2>I had to leave home. I had to leave home

0:43:41.796 --> 0:43:43.636
<v Speaker 2>to do that because my parents didn't approve. And that

0:43:43.716 --> 0:43:45.596
<v Speaker 2>was a little bit of a kind of a rough

0:43:45.876 --> 0:43:47.276
<v Speaker 2>bit of a look back now, and it was a

0:43:47.276 --> 0:43:48.476
<v Speaker 2>bit of a wild time for me.

0:43:48.556 --> 0:43:54.556
<v Speaker 1>But London and seventy seven at fourteen fifteen, yeah, must

0:43:54.556 --> 0:43:55.876
<v Speaker 1>have been that must have been crazy.

0:43:56.556 --> 0:43:56.916
<v Speaker 3>Well, it was.

0:43:56.916 --> 0:43:58.796
<v Speaker 2>Amazing because I went to the I went to the

0:43:58.836 --> 0:44:02.036
<v Speaker 2>Marquee when I was fifteen to see a bank called

0:44:02.036 --> 0:44:05.956
<v Speaker 2>Pearl Harbor and the explosions and they had the Stray Cats.

0:44:06.116 --> 0:44:09.036
<v Speaker 3>Who else was in London at the time. The class

0:44:09.156 --> 0:44:10.356
<v Speaker 3>were still around.

0:44:11.236 --> 0:44:15.796
<v Speaker 2>This is seventy eight, seventy nine, and I was really

0:44:15.796 --> 0:44:17.116
<v Speaker 2>into this band called the only Ones.

0:44:17.156 --> 0:44:21.036
<v Speaker 3>You know, I sung Another Girl Another Planet. Yeah, So

0:44:21.556 --> 0:44:22.076
<v Speaker 3>I fell.

0:44:21.916 --> 0:44:23.796
<v Speaker 2>In love with this band called the only Ones and

0:44:23.956 --> 0:44:27.356
<v Speaker 2>I followed them around quite a bit and that involved,

0:44:27.396 --> 0:44:31.236
<v Speaker 2>you know, sleeping on train stations. Me and Andy Rogue,

0:44:31.516 --> 0:44:34.196
<v Speaker 2>who was my best part at the time. I enlisted

0:44:34.236 --> 0:44:36.876
<v Speaker 2>in the Smiths, so we Yeah. I used to hang

0:44:36.916 --> 0:44:39.196
<v Speaker 2>around close shops and that was all to me, that

0:44:39.316 --> 0:44:42.756
<v Speaker 2>was all part of the apprenticeship of being a musician

0:44:43.036 --> 0:44:45.276
<v Speaker 2>because I heard loads of records. As I say, I

0:44:45.316 --> 0:44:49.196
<v Speaker 2>saw Brian Setzer when I was I think fourteen, I

0:44:49.236 --> 0:44:52.636
<v Speaker 2>saw Patty Smith when I was fourteen, I saw the Cramps,

0:44:53.236 --> 0:44:56.516
<v Speaker 2>And to me, all of this stuff has made me

0:44:56.596 --> 0:44:59.476
<v Speaker 2>what I am really seeing all those bands when I

0:44:59.516 --> 0:45:00.116
<v Speaker 2>was really young.

0:45:00.716 --> 0:45:02.716
<v Speaker 1>What'd you think of Brian Setzer at the time.

0:45:02.756 --> 0:45:04.276
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't believe it. He was amazing.

0:45:04.636 --> 0:45:06.316
<v Speaker 1>And what were the Straight Cats doing over there?

0:45:06.916 --> 0:45:10.196
<v Speaker 2>They had a hit, They had a I think they were.

0:45:10.556 --> 0:45:12.836
<v Speaker 2>England was where they took off, and me and my

0:45:12.876 --> 0:45:15.916
<v Speaker 2>pals were like, listen, there's this crazy guitar player. It's

0:45:16.036 --> 0:45:16.836
<v Speaker 2>rockabilly band.

0:45:17.556 --> 0:45:18.076
<v Speaker 3>I saw them.

0:45:18.116 --> 0:45:19.956
<v Speaker 2>I think there was you know, maybe about thirty people

0:45:19.996 --> 0:45:22.276
<v Speaker 2>in the audience, and this whole lot held like eight

0:45:22.396 --> 0:45:24.916
<v Speaker 2>hundred people. So all of that stuff, you know, I

0:45:24.956 --> 0:45:27.676
<v Speaker 2>saw Peru Boo, and I saw a whole load of

0:45:27.676 --> 0:45:29.476
<v Speaker 2>bands I didn't care for because we used to sneak

0:45:29.516 --> 0:45:31.876
<v Speaker 2>into all the venues. So I look back on all

0:45:31.916 --> 0:45:34.396
<v Speaker 2>of that and it can sound romantic, and I can

0:45:34.476 --> 0:45:36.876
<v Speaker 2>make it sound romantic, and that's because it actually was.

0:45:37.876 --> 0:45:40.156
<v Speaker 2>I had no problem with walking back from a venue

0:45:40.556 --> 0:45:42.436
<v Speaker 2>from god to see some band, whether I liked him

0:45:42.516 --> 0:45:45.996
<v Speaker 2>or not, walking back for miles with no train fair,

0:45:46.556 --> 0:45:50.396
<v Speaker 2>and it all feeling like it was part of an apprenticeship, you.

0:45:50.356 --> 0:45:52.716
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah, yeah, all part of the mission.

0:45:53.516 --> 0:45:54.036
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:45:54.596 --> 0:45:55.996
<v Speaker 1>How did you meet Andy Rourk?

0:45:56.876 --> 0:45:59.836
<v Speaker 2>We went to the same school and he was you know,

0:45:59.916 --> 0:46:04.236
<v Speaker 2>it's like with guys in school. I saw a guy

0:46:04.436 --> 0:46:08.556
<v Speaker 2>another guy with long hair, long scruffy hair, and we

0:46:08.556 --> 0:46:10.196
<v Speaker 2>were either going to be friends or we were going

0:46:10.276 --> 0:46:15.316
<v Speaker 2>to fight. We were either like in competition or we

0:46:15.316 --> 0:46:18.836
<v Speaker 2>were comrades, and I think neither of us wanted to fight.

0:46:19.476 --> 0:46:19.676
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:46:20.156 --> 0:46:22.676
<v Speaker 2>I I had a button, as you kept in America

0:46:22.676 --> 0:46:24.556
<v Speaker 2>at a badge that said that it was a Neil Young

0:46:24.596 --> 0:46:27.356
<v Speaker 2>Tonight's tonight. And he walked up to me and he

0:46:27.436 --> 0:46:31.036
<v Speaker 2>went to night to night and he did this really

0:46:31.036 --> 0:46:34.076
<v Speaker 2>amazing Neil Young impression, and I was just really impressed

0:46:34.116 --> 0:46:35.556
<v Speaker 2>that he knew what tonight tonight was.

0:46:36.196 --> 0:46:37.716
<v Speaker 3>You do that kind of thing when you were a kid,

0:46:37.716 --> 0:46:38.636
<v Speaker 3>It's so important.

0:46:39.276 --> 0:46:42.036
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah, wow, I mean I wasn't going

0:46:42.076 --> 0:46:44.636
<v Speaker 2>to wear one that had harvest. It had to be obviously,

0:46:44.636 --> 0:46:48.196
<v Speaker 2>it had to be a really obscure badge and he

0:46:48.236 --> 0:46:50.156
<v Speaker 2>walked up to me and he just sang Tonight Tonight,

0:46:50.196 --> 0:46:52.716
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, Wow, this guy's cool, and then we

0:46:52.876 --> 0:46:54.116
<v Speaker 2>just became friends for life.

0:46:54.196 --> 0:46:55.596
<v Speaker 3>You know. It's beautiful. Yeah.

0:46:55.756 --> 0:46:57.836
<v Speaker 1>Did you see Neil on that Tonight's the Night tour

0:46:57.876 --> 0:46:58.396
<v Speaker 1>in London?

0:46:58.796 --> 0:47:00.756
<v Speaker 3>No? No, that was I was too young for that.

0:47:00.916 --> 0:47:03.636
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know the big amazing story about that, about

0:47:03.676 --> 0:47:04.876
<v Speaker 2>Tonight's to Night that tour.

0:47:05.516 --> 0:47:07.716
<v Speaker 3>So he came over to England.

0:47:07.716 --> 0:47:09.636
<v Speaker 2>He played at the Scarlet, which I might be wrong

0:47:09.636 --> 0:47:12.036
<v Speaker 2>about it might be the Rainbow, but anyway, John Lyden

0:47:12.076 --> 0:47:14.996
<v Speaker 2>told me this. So he comes and the album hadn't

0:47:15.036 --> 0:47:18.756
<v Speaker 2>been released yet, and it's also a real down heavy album,

0:47:18.916 --> 0:47:19.356
<v Speaker 2>as you know.

0:47:19.556 --> 0:47:22.076
<v Speaker 3>Right. Anyway, he comes out and he's.

0:47:21.916 --> 0:47:25.036
<v Speaker 2>Got scraggly beard and he's drinking loads of tequila and

0:47:25.276 --> 0:47:27.316
<v Speaker 2>the stage and if you look on the inside of

0:47:27.316 --> 0:47:30.276
<v Speaker 2>that record, the stage set is crazy. It's got platform

0:47:30.356 --> 0:47:33.156
<v Speaker 2>boots hanging up and it's got like a it's got

0:47:33.196 --> 0:47:36.956
<v Speaker 2>hub caps all over the stage and a fake palm tree.

0:47:37.116 --> 0:47:40.356
<v Speaker 2>So he comes out and he starts playing this album

0:47:40.396 --> 0:47:43.476
<v Speaker 2>no one's ever heard. So he plays Tonight's Tonight from

0:47:43.556 --> 0:47:46.756
<v Speaker 2>start to finish. It's not even been released. Yet, and

0:47:46.756 --> 0:47:49.956
<v Speaker 2>it's this real down alcohol kind of thing, and he

0:47:49.996 --> 0:47:52.076
<v Speaker 2>plays it and the audience had like, what the hell

0:47:52.156 --> 0:47:54.596
<v Speaker 2>is this? And it's going down kind of badly. He

0:47:54.636 --> 0:47:57.156
<v Speaker 2>goes off and he gets called back on for the

0:47:57.236 --> 0:48:00.276
<v Speaker 2>encore and he says to the audience, now I'm going

0:48:00.316 --> 0:48:02.636
<v Speaker 2>to play one that you've heard before, and he plays

0:48:02.676 --> 0:48:03.636
<v Speaker 2>Tonight's Tonight again.

0:48:07.436 --> 0:48:08.116
<v Speaker 3>That happened.

0:48:09.156 --> 0:48:11.196
<v Speaker 1>I just saw Neil six nights ago. So it was

0:48:11.276 --> 0:48:12.916
<v Speaker 1>just like, this guy does not give a fuck.

0:48:14.836 --> 0:48:17.476
<v Speaker 3>You know, I've never seen him play. You've never seen

0:48:17.516 --> 0:48:21.596
<v Speaker 3>Neil never, man, it's crazy, just for some reason or other, just.

0:48:21.516 --> 0:48:25.516
<v Speaker 1>Never it's worth it. It's just I've never seen someone so

0:48:26.556 --> 0:48:31.676
<v Speaker 1>single minded, so single minded, you know those I don't want.

0:48:31.556 --> 0:48:34.676
<v Speaker 2>To generalize too much, but I've met a few sixties musicians,

0:48:35.116 --> 0:48:38.036
<v Speaker 2>which obviously you are very very fortunate. Just just a

0:48:38.076 --> 0:48:41.476
<v Speaker 2>few a handful, and they, nearly to a man and woman,

0:48:42.436 --> 0:48:43.836
<v Speaker 2>really care about playing.

0:48:44.316 --> 0:48:44.756
<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean.

0:48:44.756 --> 0:48:47.036
<v Speaker 2>I might sound obvious, but the most important thing is

0:48:47.156 --> 0:48:48.716
<v Speaker 2>if there's a guitar in the room, they will pick

0:48:48.716 --> 0:48:52.196
<v Speaker 2>it up and they'll play Ronnie Woods like that, Donovan's

0:48:52.276 --> 0:48:55.316
<v Speaker 2>like that, you know, Paul McCartney's really like that, you know,

0:48:55.516 --> 0:48:58.636
<v Speaker 2>like those people, hats off to him, you know, I

0:48:58.636 --> 0:49:02.636
<v Speaker 2>think they're really Ironically, it's kind of come around where

0:49:02.676 --> 0:49:07.596
<v Speaker 2>some of those older generation musicians they go out and

0:49:07.636 --> 0:49:09.596
<v Speaker 2>they appear to do it because they love you know,

0:49:10.156 --> 0:49:11.476
<v Speaker 2>whether it's your thing or not.

0:49:11.516 --> 0:49:13.636
<v Speaker 3>But you know, the Rod Stewarts and the Who's and.

0:49:13.556 --> 0:49:18.236
<v Speaker 2>The Jaggers and Springsteen's and all of those sort of people.

0:49:18.316 --> 0:49:21.476
<v Speaker 2>Johonny Mitchell even now coming back. You know, it's nice

0:49:21.516 --> 0:49:24.516
<v Speaker 2>to see that those people who could be just sat

0:49:24.596 --> 0:49:26.956
<v Speaker 2>on their boats or sat under the palm trees, or

0:49:26.996 --> 0:49:29.876
<v Speaker 2>spending all the time with their architects and all of that,

0:49:29.956 --> 0:49:32.156
<v Speaker 2>they appear to be out there doing it because maybe

0:49:32.156 --> 0:49:34.516
<v Speaker 2>they know something that we don't, which is, you know,

0:49:34.556 --> 0:49:38.916
<v Speaker 2>what they're really isn't anything better. Yeah, I've realized how

0:49:39.076 --> 0:49:42.116
<v Speaker 2>super fortunate I am that I have people's ears. You know,

0:49:42.716 --> 0:49:45.396
<v Speaker 2>there's an audience as people who are interested in what

0:49:45.436 --> 0:49:48.436
<v Speaker 2>I'm up to at the moment. That's such a motivation,

0:49:49.116 --> 0:49:52.116
<v Speaker 2>you know. But I do like to think that might

0:49:52.156 --> 0:49:54.196
<v Speaker 2>be bullshit, But it's easy for me to say but

0:49:54.316 --> 0:49:59.476
<v Speaker 2>that if I didn't, I'd still be playing every day, practicing, Yeah,

0:49:59.956 --> 0:50:01.876
<v Speaker 2>you know, just for the love of it and just

0:50:01.916 --> 0:50:03.636
<v Speaker 2>to try and get better, try and get better and

0:50:03.676 --> 0:50:05.276
<v Speaker 2>better in some ways, you know, if that's all you've

0:50:05.276 --> 0:50:06.196
<v Speaker 2>got to do or day.

0:50:06.076 --> 0:50:09.756
<v Speaker 3>You get pretty good. But it's horses for courses, you know.

0:50:09.836 --> 0:50:12.956
<v Speaker 3>I like what bands are. I like what indie rock

0:50:13.596 --> 0:50:14.236
<v Speaker 3>for one.

0:50:14.276 --> 0:50:16.076
<v Speaker 2>I don't put myself in a box too much, but

0:50:16.156 --> 0:50:19.876
<v Speaker 2>I like the area of music that I work in.

0:50:20.156 --> 0:50:23.756
<v Speaker 2>I still feel like that there are surprises in that

0:50:23.916 --> 0:50:26.756
<v Speaker 2>area of music. Obviously, you and I we can talk

0:50:26.756 --> 0:50:29.116
<v Speaker 2>about go off on these different tangents, talk about all

0:50:29.196 --> 0:50:33.276
<v Speaker 2>kinds of different music, you know, But my mission I felt,

0:50:33.236 --> 0:50:35.396
<v Speaker 2>I think it almost kind of got doubled in a

0:50:35.436 --> 0:50:39.036
<v Speaker 2>way when I got the solo band together. I felt

0:50:39.076 --> 0:50:41.436
<v Speaker 2>like I had this freedom to pull in all my

0:50:41.516 --> 0:50:47.276
<v Speaker 2>influences that really goes back to people like Sparks. It's

0:50:47.316 --> 0:50:50.036
<v Speaker 2>an interesting thing, I think, because what you love is

0:50:50.076 --> 0:50:54.196
<v Speaker 2>such a subjective thing, obviously, and I think you get

0:50:54.236 --> 0:50:56.076
<v Speaker 2>to a point in your life where you kind of

0:50:56.396 --> 0:51:01.876
<v Speaker 2>go back to as an influence, you really do draw

0:51:01.996 --> 0:51:04.356
<v Speaker 2>on those things that were your first loves.

0:51:05.476 --> 0:51:06.756
<v Speaker 3>I love being in the modern world.

0:51:07.116 --> 0:51:10.796
<v Speaker 2>I'm not particularly nostalgic person, but the area of music

0:51:10.796 --> 0:51:14.716
<v Speaker 2>that I'm working in guitar music. I guess melodic that

0:51:14.876 --> 0:51:17.156
<v Speaker 2>I suppose, you know, I don't really use terms like

0:51:17.356 --> 0:51:19.556
<v Speaker 2>art rock, but you know, I'm fine with being called

0:51:19.556 --> 0:51:21.836
<v Speaker 2>an indie musician. It all sounds like to me. It's

0:51:21.876 --> 0:51:24.276
<v Speaker 2>all what used to be called rock music. Anyway, for

0:51:24.316 --> 0:51:26.076
<v Speaker 2>the longest time. I used to call myself a pop

0:51:26.156 --> 0:51:29.516
<v Speaker 2>musician for the longer time, and still until I started

0:51:29.636 --> 0:51:33.076
<v Speaker 2>really recognizing that pop music is something very very different now,

0:51:33.876 --> 0:51:36.236
<v Speaker 2>and I think that's post rave and to do with

0:51:36.276 --> 0:51:38.436
<v Speaker 2>the technology and all this sort of stuff. I'm not

0:51:38.476 --> 0:51:42.276
<v Speaker 2>gonna make past judgment on it. But when I started

0:51:42.316 --> 0:51:47.196
<v Speaker 2>out at eleven or twelve and studying these records t Rex,

0:51:47.596 --> 0:51:53.076
<v Speaker 2>the Sweet Sparks that luckily for me, had amazing guitar

0:51:53.116 --> 0:51:56.636
<v Speaker 2>playing on it. Who knows what in England we call

0:51:56.716 --> 0:51:59.436
<v Speaker 2>glam rock. In America, glamorock was a different thing. Was

0:51:59.436 --> 0:52:01.916
<v Speaker 2>a little bit to do with sunset and the hairbands

0:52:01.956 --> 0:52:02.436
<v Speaker 2>and all that.

0:52:02.676 --> 0:52:03.876
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah yeah.

0:52:03.916 --> 0:52:06.756
<v Speaker 2>But in England glam rock was very definitely nineteen seventy two,

0:52:06.836 --> 0:52:09.476
<v Speaker 2>seventy three, seventy four. Davy Bowie, you know, you the

0:52:09.556 --> 0:52:11.636
<v Speaker 2>gene Genie and all that stuff, which you know, you know,

0:52:12.596 --> 0:52:18.076
<v Speaker 2>those forty fives were amazing education for me. And as

0:52:18.076 --> 0:52:21.476
<v Speaker 2>I say, it's probably subjective because that was when this

0:52:21.556 --> 0:52:25.196
<v Speaker 2>stuff really really hit me. But I still think that

0:52:25.276 --> 0:52:30.316
<v Speaker 2>what I do is working within that area where it's

0:52:30.316 --> 0:52:33.196
<v Speaker 2>for me. The best thing is that it's concise. It

0:52:33.236 --> 0:52:35.076
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to go on for seven or eight minutes

0:52:35.796 --> 0:52:39.436
<v Speaker 2>unless I'm making a point, and there's guitar hooks in it,

0:52:40.036 --> 0:52:43.196
<v Speaker 2>and the tempos are up, and yeah, it makes you.

0:52:43.316 --> 0:52:46.236
<v Speaker 2>It gets a blood racing a little bit with some

0:52:46.356 --> 0:52:50.636
<v Speaker 2>quite sort of interesting, clever, if possible lyrics that fit.

0:52:50.996 --> 0:52:54.316
<v Speaker 1>That's the part musician in you. That that's where that

0:52:54.436 --> 0:52:57.996
<v Speaker 1>is located. And that's what probably i'd imagine, like probably

0:52:57.996 --> 0:52:59.916
<v Speaker 1>how you fell in love with Chic in the seventies.

0:53:00.076 --> 0:53:02.916
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well I think with Sheik it was to

0:53:02.956 --> 0:53:06.156
<v Speaker 2>do with the harmonic progressions a lot. I always say this,

0:53:06.236 --> 0:53:08.636
<v Speaker 2>but with so much is made with now Rogers, everyone

0:53:08.676 --> 0:53:11.356
<v Speaker 2>obviously he thinks, even if they're not musicians, what they're

0:53:11.396 --> 0:53:15.916
<v Speaker 2>thinking of is his right hand. Well, what I'm really

0:53:15.916 --> 0:53:18.796
<v Speaker 2>fell in love with was his left hand. These beautiful

0:53:19.156 --> 0:53:21.876
<v Speaker 2>McCoy tyner. The first time I ever met now Rogers,

0:53:21.916 --> 0:53:24.436
<v Speaker 2>first question asked was do you really like McCoy tyner

0:53:25.436 --> 0:53:31.636
<v Speaker 2>because the core progression's so beautiful, so pretty, so emotional,

0:53:31.956 --> 0:53:34.836
<v Speaker 2>you know, I want your love and lost in music

0:53:34.996 --> 0:53:38.756
<v Speaker 2>and oh man, So that's why I like that stuff particularly.

0:53:38.796 --> 0:53:41.916
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't just a groove, it was beautiful harmonic changes.

0:53:42.596 --> 0:53:44.236
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I'm a real melody freak.

0:53:44.916 --> 0:53:49.316
<v Speaker 2>And I'll try and squeeze those hooks in too, excite

0:53:49.396 --> 0:53:54.556
<v Speaker 2>in kind of punchy guitar music wherever I can, especially

0:53:54.556 --> 0:53:55.476
<v Speaker 2>if it's my own stuff.

0:53:56.636 --> 0:53:58.556
<v Speaker 1>We're going to take another quick break and then come

0:53:58.596 --> 0:54:01.676
<v Speaker 1>back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

0:54:05.876 --> 0:54:09.036
<v Speaker 1>We're back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

0:54:10.076 --> 0:54:13.036
<v Speaker 1>Where did the riff for Spirit, Power and Soul? Can

0:54:13.076 --> 0:54:14.716
<v Speaker 1>you figure out how you arrived at that riff?

0:54:14.956 --> 0:54:15.516
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:54:15.556 --> 0:54:19.516
<v Speaker 2>What I did was months before, when I was on

0:54:19.956 --> 0:54:23.076
<v Speaker 2>the road. We had this third album called called The Comet.

0:54:23.716 --> 0:54:27.036
<v Speaker 2>I started to think, the next single off the next

0:54:27.036 --> 0:54:29.836
<v Speaker 2>album should be like an electro banger. I kind of

0:54:30.036 --> 0:54:32.316
<v Speaker 2>did conceptualize it hand on heart.

0:54:32.836 --> 0:54:33.716
<v Speaker 3>Now, hey, I.

0:54:33.636 --> 0:54:35.836
<v Speaker 2>Wish I could do that with every trap, but the

0:54:35.836 --> 0:54:38.556
<v Speaker 2>Smith's used to do that. Sometimes we'd go because I

0:54:38.676 --> 0:54:43.396
<v Speaker 2>was given a title. Often not always, but sometimes say.

0:54:43.916 --> 0:54:47.516
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I was given a title like Panic, and I

0:54:47.556 --> 0:54:50.956
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, what does that conjure up?

0:54:51.076 --> 0:54:53.996
<v Speaker 3>Or meet his murder? And we meet his murder.

0:54:54.436 --> 0:54:57.636
<v Speaker 2>I set myself the task of writing a horror score

0:54:57.636 --> 0:54:59.596
<v Speaker 2>for animals because I had the title.

0:55:00.276 --> 0:55:02.876
<v Speaker 3>So I quite enjoy hey listen as I say. I

0:55:02.956 --> 0:55:04.156
<v Speaker 3>wish I could do it more often.

0:55:04.196 --> 0:55:06.156
<v Speaker 2>But I had the idea for Spirit, Power and Soul

0:55:06.276 --> 0:55:10.276
<v Speaker 2>months before, and I went, oh, man, this and the

0:55:10.396 --> 0:55:13.516
<v Speaker 2>next album, the first track on it would be really

0:55:13.516 --> 0:55:15.316
<v Speaker 2>good if I can write an electro banger.

0:55:16.116 --> 0:55:18.236
<v Speaker 3>So I started with a drum machine. I borrowed the

0:55:18.276 --> 0:55:19.116
<v Speaker 3>drum machine.

0:55:18.796 --> 0:55:21.836
<v Speaker 2>Off Steve Morris from New Order, which actually I've got

0:55:21.836 --> 0:55:25.916
<v Speaker 2>to give it him back. And yeah, I thought, if

0:55:25.916 --> 0:55:28.596
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to borrow, if I'm gonna borrow a drum machine,

0:55:29.276 --> 0:55:32.796
<v Speaker 2>who better to borrow one off than Steve's great. So

0:55:33.276 --> 0:55:35.236
<v Speaker 2>I got in a programming, even though I could have

0:55:35.236 --> 0:55:37.436
<v Speaker 2>done it much quicker on the laptop, but that wasn't

0:55:37.436 --> 0:55:39.836
<v Speaker 2>the point. I wanted to do the process, and I

0:55:39.916 --> 0:55:42.276
<v Speaker 2>was kind of going, all right, we'll do something that's.

0:55:42.556 --> 0:55:47.156
<v Speaker 3>Like Cabaret Vaultare. So I had the beat.

0:55:47.676 --> 0:55:50.676
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I was playing along with that for like four days,

0:55:50.876 --> 0:55:53.116
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote this song that wasn't very good, and

0:55:53.116 --> 0:55:54.596
<v Speaker 2>then I had to just kind of scrap it and

0:55:54.596 --> 0:55:57.836
<v Speaker 2>apply myself again. And I just wrote it and wrote

0:55:57.876 --> 0:56:00.316
<v Speaker 2>it and wrote it and wrote it. I went in

0:56:00.356 --> 0:56:04.276
<v Speaker 2>the studio from ten so five or six for five

0:56:04.396 --> 0:56:08.156
<v Speaker 2>days and I would sing melody and melody and this

0:56:08.196 --> 0:56:10.796
<v Speaker 2>is too clever, this to melodic, this is I just

0:56:10.916 --> 0:56:14.316
<v Speaker 2>knew what I wanted, but I knew what it would

0:56:14.356 --> 0:56:16.516
<v Speaker 2>be when I found it. Hey, I'm talking a little

0:56:16.516 --> 0:56:18.556
<v Speaker 2>bit like I've written a day in the life. I

0:56:18.556 --> 0:56:20.356
<v Speaker 2>know it's but that's what I had to do.

0:56:20.396 --> 0:56:22.916
<v Speaker 1>It's a great song, man, it's a great.

0:56:22.676 --> 0:56:23.476
<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much.

0:56:23.516 --> 0:56:25.756
<v Speaker 2>Well, I appreciate that because I worked my ass off

0:56:25.796 --> 0:56:28.556
<v Speaker 2>doing it. I just kept writing these vocal melodies that

0:56:28.596 --> 0:56:33.396
<v Speaker 2>were too melodic, so it became a real craft. The

0:56:33.476 --> 0:56:37.356
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing about that song is that sometimes I have ideas,

0:56:37.396 --> 0:56:40.916
<v Speaker 2>and I've had these ideas from being a kid, where

0:56:41.236 --> 0:56:43.396
<v Speaker 2>I have an idea for what would be a good

0:56:43.436 --> 0:56:46.516
<v Speaker 2>song away from the guitar and away from the studio,

0:56:46.756 --> 0:56:49.396
<v Speaker 2>and I have it in my mind, and then I

0:56:49.516 --> 0:56:51.996
<v Speaker 2>set about trying to do it, and when it works out,

0:56:52.796 --> 0:56:53.716
<v Speaker 2>it's fantastic.

0:56:54.076 --> 0:56:56.596
<v Speaker 1>It's a wild way to come to a song like

0:56:56.676 --> 0:56:59.276
<v Speaker 1>you're not even in the realm of music, you're away

0:56:59.316 --> 0:57:02.036
<v Speaker 1>from it. Do you think that would be the worst

0:57:02.036 --> 0:57:04.556
<v Speaker 1>song potentially, that it's like this thing where you're like

0:57:04.636 --> 0:57:07.476
<v Speaker 1>conceptualizing it before you even have the chance to you know.

0:57:07.716 --> 0:57:10.276
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I'm really glad it worked out. But I

0:57:10.316 --> 0:57:14.396
<v Speaker 2>was determined. And to be fair, I think when you're

0:57:14.436 --> 0:57:18.156
<v Speaker 2>talking about skills, say, one of the skills that I've

0:57:18.236 --> 0:57:21.436
<v Speaker 2>learned that I didn't have years ago was I learned

0:57:21.716 --> 0:57:26.316
<v Speaker 2>this perseverance from Bernard Sumner from New Order, working with

0:57:26.356 --> 0:57:29.836
<v Speaker 2>Bernard for nine years in electronic If he had an

0:57:29.916 --> 0:57:33.316
<v Speaker 2>idea for a song and he believed in it, he

0:57:33.396 --> 0:57:36.156
<v Speaker 2>would not let that thing go away. He would keep

0:57:36.156 --> 0:57:39.596
<v Speaker 2>coming back to it until he was right. So that

0:57:39.716 --> 0:57:41.756
<v Speaker 2>was a skill that I've learned along the way from

0:57:41.796 --> 0:57:45.876
<v Speaker 2>somebody else. It wasn't to do with, you know, diatonic scales,

0:57:45.916 --> 0:57:49.116
<v Speaker 2>what to do with, you know, music theory. Was to

0:57:49.196 --> 0:57:53.956
<v Speaker 2>do with application process, and I've learned on that subject.

0:57:54.116 --> 0:57:57.236
<v Speaker 2>It's been I could go through all the people I've

0:57:57.236 --> 0:57:59.076
<v Speaker 2>worked with and tell you what I've.

0:57:58.956 --> 0:58:00.556
<v Speaker 3>Learned from him.

0:58:00.796 --> 0:58:03.396
<v Speaker 2>Now I think about it, I might be getting a

0:58:03.436 --> 0:58:08.636
<v Speaker 2>little bit sentimental in my old age, but Isaac Brock, Prizzy,

0:58:08.716 --> 0:58:14.836
<v Speaker 2>hein everyone, everyone, Really I learned something from all of them.

0:58:15.076 --> 0:58:17.076
<v Speaker 1>You know, what about from Chrissy.

0:58:17.436 --> 0:58:18.956
<v Speaker 3>Chrissy ay listen?

0:58:19.076 --> 0:58:20.956
<v Speaker 2>I played with the last week at Glastonbury, you know,

0:58:21.196 --> 0:58:24.356
<v Speaker 2>and that was amazing rejoining partic playing those songs after

0:58:24.396 --> 0:58:27.116
<v Speaker 2>thirty years, you know, because I haven't played them since

0:58:27.316 --> 0:58:31.676
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty whatever. So Chrissy, well, I learned that there's

0:58:31.916 --> 0:58:34.796
<v Speaker 2>a lot when you walk on stage.

0:58:35.036 --> 0:58:36.356
<v Speaker 3>Even though I don't want to embarrass it.

0:58:36.436 --> 0:58:39.436
<v Speaker 2>She might even realize this, but when you walk on

0:58:39.476 --> 0:58:42.236
<v Speaker 2>stage as the front man, you give off the vibe

0:58:42.436 --> 0:58:43.236
<v Speaker 2>to the rest of the.

0:58:43.196 --> 0:58:46.516
<v Speaker 3>Band that no matter what happens, you've got this.

0:58:47.996 --> 0:58:49.956
<v Speaker 2>And I picked up because I was very young when

0:58:49.956 --> 0:58:51.836
<v Speaker 2>I was working with Christy was twenty four and we

0:58:51.836 --> 0:58:54.436
<v Speaker 2>were doing these We were playing sometimes we played to

0:58:54.476 --> 0:58:57.516
<v Speaker 2>one hundred thousand people opening for you too, and certainly

0:58:57.636 --> 0:59:00.556
<v Speaker 2>seventy thousand people most nights on the Joshua Tree tour.

0:59:00.836 --> 0:59:04.156
<v Speaker 2>And I'm telling you, I was terrified. But when I

0:59:04.156 --> 0:59:06.916
<v Speaker 2>walked behind her on stage, I was like, it's cool,

0:59:06.996 --> 0:59:11.556
<v Speaker 2>she's got this. Try and be that for my band. Yeah,

0:59:11.556 --> 0:59:14.116
<v Speaker 2>And also, you know, things like in rehearsal. When you

0:59:14.196 --> 0:59:16.956
<v Speaker 2>wear that one, two, three four. When you start singing,

0:59:17.076 --> 0:59:19.756
<v Speaker 2>you sing like you're on stage. None of this like

0:59:19.796 --> 0:59:21.796
<v Speaker 2>looking at your phone or looking up at the roof

0:59:21.956 --> 0:59:24.876
<v Speaker 2>and or you know, being distracted, when for those four

0:59:24.916 --> 0:59:26.396
<v Speaker 2>minutes that you're singing.

0:59:26.436 --> 0:59:30.236
<v Speaker 3>You really are in it. Yeah. I learned a lot

0:59:30.236 --> 0:59:30.716
<v Speaker 3>from Christy.

0:59:30.836 --> 0:59:34.076
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's quite dedicated as a in her as her

0:59:34.156 --> 0:59:35.756
<v Speaker 1>role as front person.

0:59:35.676 --> 0:59:38.636
<v Speaker 2>In a natural way, in a natural way because a

0:59:38.636 --> 0:59:40.356
<v Speaker 2>big part of her as well is that she's a

0:59:40.356 --> 0:59:43.956
<v Speaker 2>punk rocker and she's not too referential the business of

0:59:43.996 --> 0:59:47.716
<v Speaker 2>being in a band. She honors that she thinks being

0:59:47.756 --> 0:59:50.356
<v Speaker 2>in the band is a special thing, and especially her

0:59:50.356 --> 0:59:52.996
<v Speaker 2>relationship with a guitar player that goes right back to

0:59:53.076 --> 0:59:54.876
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Scott, who I was a big fan of when

0:59:54.876 --> 0:59:56.956
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, which you can really hear in

0:59:57.036 --> 0:59:57.676
<v Speaker 2>my plane, you know.

0:59:58.236 --> 1:00:01.076
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, speaking of like, you know, you're sort of thinking

1:00:01.116 --> 1:00:04.316
<v Speaker 1>of yourself as a pop musician in a weird way.

1:00:04.356 --> 1:00:07.276
<v Speaker 1>On paper, could look like a strange pairing, but I

1:00:07.316 --> 1:00:10.156
<v Speaker 1>think having spoken to you now, it seems to make

1:00:10.196 --> 1:00:13.236
<v Speaker 1>a ton of sense. You and Hans Zimmer and Pharrell

1:00:14.156 --> 1:00:16.596
<v Speaker 1>getting together. Yeah, about a decade ago, to work on

1:00:16.636 --> 1:00:17.996
<v Speaker 1>some of that Spider Man stuff.

1:00:18.396 --> 1:00:21.476
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, well, I've got to say this is

1:00:21.516 --> 1:00:25.476
<v Speaker 2>classic hands because Hans is a real lateral thinker. He

1:00:25.516 --> 1:00:29.676
<v Speaker 2>really thinks outside of the box, and he genuinely has

1:00:29.796 --> 1:00:32.356
<v Speaker 2>told me this so many times now that I really

1:00:32.476 --> 1:00:35.636
<v Speaker 2>think it's true. So when me and Pharrell first got

1:00:35.636 --> 1:00:37.556
<v Speaker 2>in a room together and we wrote two songs on

1:00:37.596 --> 1:00:41.276
<v Speaker 2>that that think just me and him, Hans loved telling

1:00:41.276 --> 1:00:44.596
<v Speaker 2>this story that he was watching the guy who wrote literally,

1:00:44.676 --> 1:00:47.156
<v Speaker 2>watching the guy who wrote Heaven Knows I'm miserable Now

1:00:47.556 --> 1:00:49.756
<v Speaker 2>writing a song with the guy who wrote Happy.

1:00:49.956 --> 1:00:51.756
<v Speaker 3>He thought that was hilarious.

1:00:52.276 --> 1:00:57.196
<v Speaker 2>And so we got offered that movie, The Amazing Spider

1:00:57.236 --> 1:01:00.156
<v Speaker 2>Man three, and he and I got together and he

1:01:00.236 --> 1:01:02.596
<v Speaker 2>was like, well, what comes to mind what you're thinking.

1:01:02.676 --> 1:01:05.596
<v Speaker 2>I don't really know the franchise very much, but I

1:01:05.636 --> 1:01:08.596
<v Speaker 2>had this idea. I saw the opening scene so real

1:01:08.676 --> 1:01:10.876
<v Speaker 2>rough of it and it was New York and it

1:01:10.916 --> 1:01:13.076
<v Speaker 2>was like, there's a lot of action and everything, and

1:01:13.116 --> 1:01:15.796
<v Speaker 2>I said, you know what it should it should be

1:01:15.876 --> 1:01:18.196
<v Speaker 2>like the Who. I wasn't thinking classic rock, but I

1:01:18.236 --> 1:01:20.116
<v Speaker 2>was just thinking it should be like Won't get Fooled Again?

1:01:20.156 --> 1:01:21.676
<v Speaker 3>It should be like if you're asking me as.

1:01:21.596 --> 1:01:25.316
<v Speaker 2>A guitar player power chords, it's whoa this big kind

1:01:25.356 --> 1:01:28.156
<v Speaker 2>of explosive thing. I never think in terms of metal.

1:01:28.356 --> 1:01:31.716
<v Speaker 2>It's just not my bag. But yeah, if I think explosive,

1:01:31.756 --> 1:01:34.796
<v Speaker 2>I think of like the Who or whatever. And he

1:01:34.876 --> 1:01:37.356
<v Speaker 2>really liked that idea, and then from that he jumped

1:01:37.356 --> 1:01:40.116
<v Speaker 2>then to like having a band in a room so

1:01:40.236 --> 1:01:44.236
<v Speaker 2>straight away because Junkie Excel was he had a studio

1:01:44.676 --> 1:01:46.796
<v Speaker 2>in the same building that we were in, and he

1:01:46.916 --> 1:01:49.636
<v Speaker 2>was brilliant like, well listen, we'll get junky Excel on bass.

1:01:50.076 --> 1:01:53.516
<v Speaker 2>And then we had this idea about this explosive pop book.

1:01:53.956 --> 1:01:58.156
<v Speaker 2>Hands then was like, who's the most melodic thinking that

1:01:58.236 --> 1:02:00.836
<v Speaker 2>you can think of? Who's like, who's amazing act coming

1:02:00.876 --> 1:02:03.436
<v Speaker 2>up with melodies? And he just let's just ask for real,

1:02:03.916 --> 1:02:07.156
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, well, I was like, well, this

1:02:07.196 --> 1:02:11.556
<v Speaker 2>would be interesting. I mean, I'm not I'm sure I'm

1:02:11.596 --> 1:02:14.636
<v Speaker 2>not the first person to say this at all. But

1:02:15.116 --> 1:02:18.436
<v Speaker 2>when for All comes in the room, He's like, where's

1:02:18.436 --> 1:02:21.836
<v Speaker 2>the tune? Let me write a tune. He's amazing. We

1:02:21.836 --> 1:02:24.036
<v Speaker 2>were putting the song down. I don't I'm sure he

1:02:24.076 --> 1:02:26.436
<v Speaker 2>won't mind me telling this story. I've been for a

1:02:26.516 --> 1:02:29.356
<v Speaker 2>run in the morning and I had this idea for that.

1:02:29.436 --> 1:02:32.556
<v Speaker 2>We needed a romantic song. We need like the love

1:02:32.636 --> 1:02:34.396
<v Speaker 2>the love song in this and I just happened to

1:02:34.396 --> 1:02:36.756
<v Speaker 2>be out running in the morning and I heard that

1:02:36.796 --> 1:02:38.436
<v Speaker 2>this this tune in my head. I was like, oh,

1:02:38.516 --> 1:02:40.716
<v Speaker 2>that would be good, so I'll get I was enthusiastic

1:02:40.756 --> 1:02:43.076
<v Speaker 2>to get in the studio and put this tune down.

1:02:44.236 --> 1:02:45.356
<v Speaker 3>So I got in the studio.

1:02:45.196 --> 1:02:47.996
<v Speaker 2>Kind of early, and we're in this big room and

1:02:48.036 --> 1:02:50.476
<v Speaker 2>I started laying this down and there's some of the musicians,

1:02:50.476 --> 1:02:53.476
<v Speaker 2>a couple of string players piano, and Hans was playing piano,

1:02:54.436 --> 1:02:57.356
<v Speaker 2>and Frell wasn't there, and we started putting this running

1:02:57.396 --> 1:02:59.116
<v Speaker 2>the chords down and I've got this tune and we're

1:02:59.116 --> 1:03:01.516
<v Speaker 2>putting it down and we're recording it. And about the

1:03:01.556 --> 1:03:04.676
<v Speaker 2>second time I get through this tune for our walks

1:03:04.716 --> 1:03:07.756
<v Speaker 2>in and uh. We're halfway through the tune and he's

1:03:07.796 --> 1:03:09.676
<v Speaker 2>kind of trying to be quiet and make a noise

1:03:09.836 --> 1:03:12.636
<v Speaker 2>and he's got he picks the microphone up and when

1:03:12.676 --> 1:03:15.276
<v Speaker 2>we finished doing this quick run through, we've got to

1:03:15.276 --> 1:03:18.276
<v Speaker 2>start a third one for some technical reason, and he's

1:03:18.356 --> 1:03:21.676
<v Speaker 2>asking Steve Lipson to stop the track I want to sing,

1:03:22.316 --> 1:03:24.316
<v Speaker 2>and Hans goes, can we just put the track down?

1:03:24.356 --> 1:03:26.956
<v Speaker 3>He goes, I want to. Now, my point in telling this.

1:03:26.916 --> 1:03:31.076
<v Speaker 2>Story is that most musicians know that is the opposite

1:03:31.116 --> 1:03:33.716
<v Speaker 2>of what happens. What usually happens is you have a

1:03:33.796 --> 1:03:36.516
<v Speaker 2>tune and you put the tune down and you have

1:03:36.596 --> 1:03:40.396
<v Speaker 2>to wait for days for the singer to sing.

1:03:41.396 --> 1:03:43.796
<v Speaker 3>For I was like, plug this in, plug this in,

1:03:43.916 --> 1:03:47.876
<v Speaker 3>let me sing. It was brilliant, and he's in the

1:03:47.916 --> 1:03:48.516
<v Speaker 3>control room.

1:03:48.836 --> 1:03:50.956
<v Speaker 2>He's tapping on his phone all the time, tapping on

1:03:50.996 --> 1:03:55.636
<v Speaker 2>his phone writing lyrics. So my experience with with with

1:03:55.636 --> 1:03:59.356
<v Speaker 2>for Alpha on that movie was he was he is

1:03:59.476 --> 1:04:01.876
<v Speaker 2>exactly what I thought.

1:04:01.956 --> 1:04:02.316
<v Speaker 1>He was.

1:04:03.076 --> 1:04:05.036
<v Speaker 3>Just music just oozes out the guy.

1:04:05.516 --> 1:04:05.996
<v Speaker 1>I love it.

1:04:06.236 --> 1:04:07.516
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So that was this funny thing.

1:04:07.756 --> 1:04:12.636
<v Speaker 2>But when when I've been a couple of times about collaboration, right,

1:04:12.996 --> 1:04:16.596
<v Speaker 2>I use that that example of writing with Pharrell as

1:04:16.596 --> 1:04:20.036
<v Speaker 2>an illustration as to what happens in the collaborative process,

1:04:20.116 --> 1:04:23.676
<v Speaker 2>because on the face of it, what I say is

1:04:23.836 --> 1:04:27.636
<v Speaker 2>it's like when you've got two musicians working together. On

1:04:27.676 --> 1:04:29.956
<v Speaker 2>the face of it, look, I'm an indie rock musician

1:04:29.996 --> 1:04:34.036
<v Speaker 2>from Manchester in the eighties, and then Pharrell is a

1:04:34.556 --> 1:04:39.036
<v Speaker 2>R and B, you know, hip hop pop musician from America.

1:04:39.996 --> 1:04:42.356
<v Speaker 2>But I always say it's a bit like you're getting

1:04:42.396 --> 1:04:45.396
<v Speaker 2>a rowbot and the two ears are rowing in the

1:04:45.396 --> 1:04:49.716
<v Speaker 2>same direction and the horizon is the speakers. I think

1:04:49.756 --> 1:04:53.436
<v Speaker 2>the point is is that music and collaboration and when

1:04:53.436 --> 1:04:55.396
<v Speaker 2>you're trying to create something with someone, even if you

1:04:55.436 --> 1:04:59.516
<v Speaker 2>don't know them very well, it transcends your being from

1:05:00.076 --> 1:05:04.956
<v Speaker 2>different backgrounds, completely transcends it. Yeah, music's amazing for that,

1:05:05.116 --> 1:05:06.476
<v Speaker 2>and collaboration is amazing.

1:05:06.676 --> 1:05:09.436
<v Speaker 3>You're both trying to just come up with a good

1:05:09.476 --> 1:05:09.876
<v Speaker 3>middle eight.

1:05:10.836 --> 1:05:14.036
<v Speaker 2>And because of that, because people on the outside will go, oh, yeah,

1:05:14.036 --> 1:05:16.516
<v Speaker 2>you have to check your egos at the door or well,

1:05:16.556 --> 1:05:20.596
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's a given because people who are serious

1:05:21.196 --> 1:05:23.476
<v Speaker 2>they just want to make something great and it's not

1:05:23.516 --> 1:05:26.316
<v Speaker 2>even a question of egos.

1:05:26.996 --> 1:05:27.196
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:05:27.236 --> 1:05:30.036
<v Speaker 2>I mean the people I've worked with, the greats, you

1:05:30.076 --> 1:05:32.036
<v Speaker 2>know they I'm sure they have an ego when they're

1:05:32.036 --> 1:05:34.956
<v Speaker 2>getting out on stage, but when it comes down to work,

1:05:35.236 --> 1:05:36.836
<v Speaker 2>they know, you know, you've got.

1:05:36.716 --> 1:05:37.396
<v Speaker 3>To put the hours in.

1:05:37.476 --> 1:05:40.716
<v Speaker 2>Billie Eilish is like that, at Licia Keys is like that,

1:05:41.036 --> 1:05:45.396
<v Speaker 2>just real hard working, rolling the sleeves up and putting

1:05:45.436 --> 1:05:46.236
<v Speaker 2>the hours in, you know.

1:05:46.716 --> 1:05:49.476
<v Speaker 1>Talking about greats who put in the work. What was

1:05:49.516 --> 1:05:54.276
<v Speaker 1>it like observing or being a part of the Joshua

1:05:54.276 --> 1:05:58.516
<v Speaker 1>Tree tour like seeing YouTube in that moment as up close.

1:05:58.316 --> 1:06:03.356
<v Speaker 2>If you were well, the amazing thing was I told

1:06:03.516 --> 1:06:07.436
<v Speaker 2>Edge this actually that so when I joined that tour,

1:06:07.476 --> 1:06:09.636
<v Speaker 2>because the pretender's been doing it for a then the

1:06:09.676 --> 1:06:13.356
<v Speaker 2>guitar player quit and then I joined on there. At

1:06:13.396 --> 1:06:16.716
<v Speaker 2>that point, Bono was doing this thing where he's in

1:06:16.756 --> 1:06:19.796
<v Speaker 2>front of whatever, seventy eighty thousand people and they've got

1:06:19.836 --> 1:06:24.996
<v Speaker 2>this material that is just really sounding good in those stadiums,

1:06:25.756 --> 1:06:28.196
<v Speaker 2>and don't forget that it was new music then where

1:06:28.236 --> 1:06:30.996
<v Speaker 2>the Streets have No Name and I still haven't found

1:06:31.036 --> 1:06:31.756
<v Speaker 2>what I'm looking for.

1:06:31.916 --> 1:06:33.236
<v Speaker 3>They were new songs.

1:06:32.916 --> 1:06:35.436
<v Speaker 2>That people were just hearing on the radio, right, So

1:06:35.476 --> 1:06:38.636
<v Speaker 2>it was like, whoa, this is a pretty good place

1:06:38.676 --> 1:06:38.836
<v Speaker 2>to be.

1:06:38.916 --> 1:06:40.716
<v Speaker 3>I was stot out the side of the stage.

1:06:40.396 --> 1:06:43.556
<v Speaker 2>Going wow, when you hear that, When you hear where

1:06:43.556 --> 1:06:45.116
<v Speaker 2>the Streets have no Name, which I think they used

1:06:45.116 --> 1:06:48.116
<v Speaker 2>to start with, you go what, I think this song's

1:06:48.156 --> 1:06:50.836
<v Speaker 2>going to stick around for a while. And so there

1:06:50.876 --> 1:06:53.996
<v Speaker 2>was a vibe and they come on and Bono was

1:06:54.036 --> 1:06:57.196
<v Speaker 2>doing this thing where midway through the set or whatever,

1:06:57.396 --> 1:07:00.316
<v Speaker 2>he would climb up on the PA and then he

1:07:00.316 --> 1:07:04.076
<v Speaker 2>would climb on whatever on some light in trust or whatever,

1:07:04.396 --> 1:07:07.116
<v Speaker 2>and he was hanging down off doing that thing, and

1:07:07.156 --> 1:07:11.436
<v Speaker 2>he'd be hanging down a fit and you know, and

1:07:11.556 --> 1:07:14.076
<v Speaker 2>Chrisy said to me, got a look at that.

1:07:14.276 --> 1:07:16.116
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's kind of laughing about it. What does

1:07:16.156 --> 1:07:16.956
<v Speaker 3>he think he's doing?

1:07:17.836 --> 1:07:20.076
<v Speaker 2>And I said to her, you know, Chrisy, I saw

1:07:20.156 --> 1:07:24.036
<v Speaker 2>him do that in front of about forty people in

1:07:24.076 --> 1:07:26.836
<v Speaker 2>a little room in Manchester when they first came at

1:07:26.836 --> 1:07:28.876
<v Speaker 2>Manchester in nineteen eighty.

1:07:28.956 --> 1:07:31.116
<v Speaker 3>I want to say, me and my pals went down.

1:07:31.116 --> 1:07:33.756
<v Speaker 2>We heard about him on the John Peel Show and

1:07:34.556 --> 1:07:38.276
<v Speaker 2>I thought that's really cool because he was doing it

1:07:38.316 --> 1:07:42.956
<v Speaker 2>back then, and also I guess the music, I think

1:07:42.996 --> 1:07:44.156
<v Speaker 2>I started to see that.

1:07:44.436 --> 1:07:46.356
<v Speaker 3>Well, first off, you've got to have a real.

1:07:47.676 --> 1:07:50.516
<v Speaker 2>Got a lot of energy to be the head of

1:07:50.876 --> 1:07:54.036
<v Speaker 2>you know, that kind of organization with like you know,

1:07:54.116 --> 1:07:57.796
<v Speaker 2>fifteen trucks and such a big, big organization. You know,

1:07:57.836 --> 1:07:59.676
<v Speaker 2>that takes a lot out of you during the day,

1:07:59.756 --> 1:08:03.676
<v Speaker 2>forget even the shows. Just being the center of all

1:08:03.756 --> 1:08:09.596
<v Speaker 2>of that operation, which you know, made me realize that, Okay,

1:08:09.636 --> 1:08:10.676
<v Speaker 2>with being what I am, you.

1:08:10.636 --> 1:08:13.996
<v Speaker 3>Know, but because you know, I don't like a lot

1:08:13.996 --> 1:08:16.476
<v Speaker 3>of fuss, so I really admired that.

1:08:16.756 --> 1:08:19.796
<v Speaker 2>But how masterful it was that you the tunes have

1:08:19.876 --> 1:08:22.796
<v Speaker 2>to be really if you listen to those, that kind

1:08:22.796 --> 1:08:26.196
<v Speaker 2>of music, which I guess was part of what defined

1:08:26.436 --> 1:08:27.556
<v Speaker 2>now stayed in music.

1:08:28.356 --> 1:08:32.676
<v Speaker 3>It's very simple, but it's in the I.

1:08:32.556 --> 1:08:36.556
<v Speaker 2>Remember those those nights has been pretty there's a lot

1:08:36.596 --> 1:08:43.156
<v Speaker 2>of motion in that music. Simple doesn't necessarily mean like vacuous.

1:08:43.516 --> 1:08:45.356
<v Speaker 2>I still haven't found what I'm looking for is such

1:08:45.356 --> 1:08:51.196
<v Speaker 2>as and and the Singing Man.

1:08:52.276 --> 1:08:54.996
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, that was really that. That was very very cool.

1:08:55.036 --> 1:08:57.556
<v Speaker 2>And again you know the chemistry of a band, if ever,

1:08:57.796 --> 1:09:00.396
<v Speaker 2>you know, you want to talk about chemistry, you know,

1:09:00.756 --> 1:09:06.116
<v Speaker 2>look at those guys. They're kind of really archetypal. You know,

1:09:06.156 --> 1:09:09.756
<v Speaker 2>the edges are really archetypal. He's rolling the band, and

1:09:09.796 --> 1:09:12.956
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's kind of arty, and he's got imagination

1:09:13.196 --> 1:09:16.156
<v Speaker 2>and he he sort of paints pictures and with his

1:09:16.596 --> 1:09:19.996
<v Speaker 2>guitars that sound and all of that. And Adam really

1:09:20.036 --> 1:09:23.396
<v Speaker 2>holds it down. And then Bono is a flamboyant on

1:09:23.516 --> 1:09:26.396
<v Speaker 2>stage and off kind of concepts guy, and and Larry's

1:09:26.436 --> 1:09:28.996
<v Speaker 2>the guy who kind of really is he formed the

1:09:28.996 --> 1:09:31.396
<v Speaker 2>whole thing, and he's like the engine in a way. Yea,

1:09:31.636 --> 1:09:34.276
<v Speaker 2>So it comes back to that thing if you are

1:09:34.316 --> 1:09:34.996
<v Speaker 2>what you play.

1:09:35.676 --> 1:09:38.316
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when I think about the Edge, I also start

1:09:38.396 --> 1:09:41.676
<v Speaker 1>to think about like Johnny Greenwood, Oh yeah, I mean

1:09:41.756 --> 1:09:44.156
<v Speaker 1>he seems to me like you also, where it's like

1:09:44.876 --> 1:09:47.236
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of just down to like like it doesn't

1:09:47.276 --> 1:09:50.196
<v Speaker 1>matter how complicated it sounds. It's just like what fits

1:09:50.276 --> 1:09:52.796
<v Speaker 1>the strap, you know, and is adventurous.

1:09:52.796 --> 1:09:56.236
<v Speaker 2>Similarly, yeah, well, well, difference between me and Johnny though,

1:09:56.396 --> 1:09:58.236
<v Speaker 2>is that he's been able to grow with the same

1:09:58.356 --> 1:10:02.116
<v Speaker 2>musicians over a long period of time, you know what

1:10:02.156 --> 1:10:05.076
<v Speaker 2>I mean, because again they are another band, you know,

1:10:05.196 --> 1:10:06.716
<v Speaker 2>with amazing chemistry.

1:10:07.636 --> 1:10:09.916
<v Speaker 3>Jo they've all become who they are.

1:10:10.036 --> 1:10:11.876
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know now that you know, they got

1:10:11.876 --> 1:10:13.556
<v Speaker 2>to a place where they're all doing their own projects

1:10:13.556 --> 1:10:17.356
<v Speaker 2>and everything. But Johnny's been in a place where he's

1:10:17.396 --> 1:10:22.196
<v Speaker 2>been able to grow with Phil Selway playing behind him

1:10:22.396 --> 1:10:25.316
<v Speaker 2>and with Tom next to him. The difference with me

1:10:25.396 --> 1:10:29.436
<v Speaker 2>is that I've done that in different bands. I think

1:10:29.436 --> 1:10:31.916
<v Speaker 2>that's a big difference between me and Johnny. You know,

1:10:32.116 --> 1:10:35.236
<v Speaker 2>in a way if you like Johnny's Johnny's family stayed

1:10:35.236 --> 1:10:38.276
<v Speaker 2>together a long time, whereas my family was a very

1:10:38.596 --> 1:10:40.956
<v Speaker 2>the family I was known for was very short lived,

1:10:41.316 --> 1:10:43.516
<v Speaker 2>you know, in the Smiths, which is fine now. It

1:10:43.556 --> 1:10:45.796
<v Speaker 2>happens with a lot more bands in than the ones

1:10:45.836 --> 1:10:47.236
<v Speaker 2>that stay together for forty years.

1:10:47.356 --> 1:10:50.156
<v Speaker 1>I think like the Beatles too, the Beatles. The Beatles

1:10:50.156 --> 1:10:52.716
<v Speaker 1>short lived, but a lot of packed a big punch

1:10:52.836 --> 1:10:55.596
<v Speaker 1>in their time. And it's smith I mean, you look

1:10:55.636 --> 1:10:58.116
<v Speaker 1>at the work you guys did in the short amount

1:10:58.156 --> 1:10:59.716
<v Speaker 1>of time. It's like, damn, it's a lot of It's

1:10:59.756 --> 1:11:00.436
<v Speaker 1>a lot of work.

1:11:00.716 --> 1:11:04.556
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it felt like that, and I'm very extremely

1:11:04.596 --> 1:11:07.636
<v Speaker 2>proud of it. But I think Johnny's as well as

1:11:07.676 --> 1:11:11.356
<v Speaker 2>been supremely talented, I think he's been in a place

1:11:11.396 --> 1:11:16.276
<v Speaker 2>where he can really he occupies his place in that

1:11:16.356 --> 1:11:20.636
<v Speaker 2>band and has done for a long time now, and

1:11:20.916 --> 1:11:23.276
<v Speaker 2>he's you know that band that they've all they've all

1:11:23.436 --> 1:11:26.076
<v Speaker 2>sort of grown around each other, you know what I mean.

1:11:26.476 --> 1:11:29.196
<v Speaker 2>You pick any album like kid A or that, you know,

1:11:29.196 --> 1:11:32.076
<v Speaker 2>I'm easy at that period. I really like him Rainbows

1:11:32.076 --> 1:11:36.836
<v Speaker 2>as well, and they've all kind of evolved together. So

1:11:36.916 --> 1:11:39.676
<v Speaker 2>I think that's really that's really suited him as a musician.

1:11:39.876 --> 1:11:42.996
<v Speaker 2>I think it always suited my personality to kind of

1:11:43.596 --> 1:11:46.596
<v Speaker 2>flit around. Really, you know, it doesn't come as any

1:11:46.636 --> 1:11:49.676
<v Speaker 2>surprise to me whatsoever that I've been in loads of

1:11:49.676 --> 1:11:50.356
<v Speaker 2>different bands.

1:11:50.516 --> 1:11:52.876
<v Speaker 1>Going back to the beginning of our conversation, I love

1:11:52.916 --> 1:11:54.916
<v Speaker 1>that it's something you've done, and I wish you. I

1:11:54.916 --> 1:11:57.076
<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's like, you know, if I had my brothers,

1:11:57.356 --> 1:12:00.276
<v Speaker 1>my personal taste taking into consideration I had my brothers,

1:12:00.476 --> 1:12:02.556
<v Speaker 1>I would have that happen more often. Like I love

1:12:02.996 --> 1:12:05.276
<v Speaker 1>seeing different like going back to jazz, like I love

1:12:05.556 --> 1:12:07.076
<v Speaker 1>it's like I love the fact that I can pull

1:12:07.156 --> 1:12:09.116
<v Speaker 1>up and be like, oh, I want to hear, Oh

1:12:09.156 --> 1:12:12.316
<v Speaker 1>I can hear Askar Peterson play with with Check Baker

1:12:12.356 --> 1:12:14.516
<v Speaker 1>on this one, or I can hear I want to

1:12:14.516 --> 1:12:18.076
<v Speaker 1>hear Wayne Shorter play with you know, Jimmy Cabb instead

1:12:18.116 --> 1:12:20.196
<v Speaker 1>of what you know, right, I just want to hear

1:12:20.196 --> 1:12:23.156
<v Speaker 1>what the different combinations and formations sound like. And that's

1:12:23.156 --> 1:12:25.556
<v Speaker 1>what's cool about and why I got into make last

1:12:25.556 --> 1:12:27.756
<v Speaker 1>playlists around news because it's like just cool toy hear

1:12:28.076 --> 1:12:30.476
<v Speaker 1>how someone sounds in different context with different people at

1:12:30.476 --> 1:12:32.236
<v Speaker 1>different times. It's just fun.

1:12:32.356 --> 1:12:35.036
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks, Well, sometimes I think what I do is

1:12:35.396 --> 1:12:38.516
<v Speaker 2>more heard in some situations than others. So in the

1:12:38.556 --> 1:12:40.876
<v Speaker 2>other there was quite a lot of space for me

1:12:40.956 --> 1:12:45.076
<v Speaker 2>to do my thing in especially on the Dusk album

1:12:45.316 --> 1:12:47.036
<v Speaker 2>you can Hear You can Hear Me quite a lot,

1:12:47.076 --> 1:12:50.076
<v Speaker 2>and then other times, like with electronic, the guitar kind

1:12:50.076 --> 1:12:53.116
<v Speaker 2>of got squeezed out. But that was my actually down

1:12:53.116 --> 1:12:56.436
<v Speaker 2>to me because I was really kind of getting getting

1:12:56.436 --> 1:12:59.596
<v Speaker 2>so in electronic pop and I just got really enthusiastic

1:12:59.636 --> 1:13:01.316
<v Speaker 2>for that, and I guess, you know, I just sort

1:13:01.316 --> 1:13:03.156
<v Speaker 2>of fell out of love with being a rock musician

1:13:03.476 --> 1:13:05.436
<v Speaker 2>during that period. But that's okay because I was only

1:13:05.436 --> 1:13:07.996
<v Speaker 2>twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven. It's all part of

1:13:08.036 --> 1:13:10.876
<v Speaker 2>it and I've done that now and if you know,

1:13:11.036 --> 1:13:14.436
<v Speaker 2>but but where the guitar did feature in on electronics

1:13:14.476 --> 1:13:18.036
<v Speaker 2>records likes feel every be and get the message.

1:13:18.756 --> 1:13:20.236
<v Speaker 3>It was pretty interesting stuff.

1:13:20.436 --> 1:13:22.396
<v Speaker 2>I kind of wish that I had done more of it,

1:13:23.076 --> 1:13:25.476
<v Speaker 2>and Bernard was always, to be fair of Bernard was

1:13:25.476 --> 1:13:27.076
<v Speaker 2>always encouraging me to do more of it, but I

1:13:27.116 --> 1:13:29.996
<v Speaker 2>wanted to learn about other aspects of record making there

1:13:29.996 --> 1:13:32.236
<v Speaker 2>so it is or what it is and you know,

1:13:32.316 --> 1:13:35.116
<v Speaker 2>and on the Cribs record that I made, there's plenty

1:13:35.116 --> 1:13:36.196
<v Speaker 2>of me on that stuff.

1:13:36.236 --> 1:13:37.116
<v Speaker 3>I can hear a lot of that.

1:13:37.316 --> 1:13:40.236
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, I really feel like as a and

1:13:40.276 --> 1:13:42.716
<v Speaker 2>I don't mean to sound glib or whatever, but I

1:13:42.796 --> 1:13:45.756
<v Speaker 2>kind of think of as a British guitar player, I've

1:13:45.796 --> 1:13:47.956
<v Speaker 2>kind of had the best job I could think of.

1:13:48.596 --> 1:13:52.756
<v Speaker 2>I mean genuinely, you know, I understand sure be could

1:13:52.796 --> 1:13:56.036
<v Speaker 2>dismiss are so revered and so loved over time and

1:13:56.236 --> 1:13:59.276
<v Speaker 2>almost you know, times made the band almost even more

1:13:59.756 --> 1:14:03.756
<v Speaker 2>kind of you know, valued or whatever the big narrative is.

1:14:04.076 --> 1:14:05.876
<v Speaker 2>People are seeing, oh the band was so short lived,

1:14:05.876 --> 1:14:07.956
<v Speaker 2>if only they could stay together for longer, and all

1:14:07.996 --> 1:14:09.956
<v Speaker 2>of that. But it makes top sense to me that

1:14:10.516 --> 1:14:13.276
<v Speaker 2>just speaking for my own life, that I've done all

1:14:13.276 --> 1:14:17.396
<v Speaker 2>of this different stuff as a guitar player, it's entirely

1:14:17.436 --> 1:14:20.436
<v Speaker 2>the person I was when that when I was fourteen fifteen,

1:14:20.516 --> 1:14:23.276
<v Speaker 2>and I say that all the time, and it's it's

1:14:23.316 --> 1:14:23.956
<v Speaker 2>the person.

1:14:23.716 --> 1:14:24.796
<v Speaker 3>That I kind of dreamed of being.

1:14:24.876 --> 1:14:27.796
<v Speaker 2>Really. I mean, obviously, you know, life throws all kinds

1:14:27.796 --> 1:14:31.036
<v Speaker 2>of curve balls without getting down you know too philosophical,

1:14:31.316 --> 1:14:35.836
<v Speaker 2>nothing doesn't turn out like a fairy tale. But professionally, man,

1:14:35.916 --> 1:14:38.316
<v Speaker 2>I can't. Sometimes I think, wow, I was under there.

1:14:38.356 --> 1:14:39.996
<v Speaker 2>They were my favorite band at the time.

1:14:40.356 --> 1:14:44.636
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, and you were with them and maybe you know,

1:14:44.756 --> 1:14:47.436
<v Speaker 1>like maybe their best record, you know, like Dusk is like.

1:14:47.476 --> 1:14:50.556
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, Dusk is a real good one. Yeah.

1:14:50.796 --> 1:14:52.196
<v Speaker 3>It's just weird that it all turned out.

1:14:52.236 --> 1:14:55.236
<v Speaker 2>And then, you know, it was really when I The

1:14:55.276 --> 1:14:57.396
<v Speaker 2>short thing with Body's Mouth was that I went through

1:14:57.396 --> 1:15:00.156
<v Speaker 2>a period where the late night is were I just

1:15:00.436 --> 1:15:04.076
<v Speaker 2>wasn't really hearing that much in British guitar music that

1:15:04.196 --> 1:15:07.556
<v Speaker 2>excited me, but I was hearing it in American guitar music.

1:15:07.756 --> 1:15:09.596
<v Speaker 3>I built to Spill he liked.

1:15:09.716 --> 1:15:12.516
<v Speaker 2>And there was a band called the Lilies I really

1:15:12.636 --> 1:15:14.956
<v Speaker 2>liked from out of Boston.

1:15:15.956 --> 1:15:19.476
<v Speaker 3>I thought Lilies were great. And then and Elliott Smith

1:15:19.516 --> 1:15:22.756
<v Speaker 3>And what ant was I met Elliott and Elliott Smith?

1:15:22.916 --> 1:15:24.276
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I met Elliott a couple of times.

1:15:24.316 --> 1:15:26.436
<v Speaker 2>In the first time I met him, I was talking

1:15:26.436 --> 1:15:29.556
<v Speaker 2>to him about these bands and he hit me up

1:15:29.596 --> 1:15:31.436
<v Speaker 2>to Modest Mouse. I didn't know what Modest Mouse was.

1:15:31.476 --> 1:15:33.356
<v Speaker 2>It was Elliot who told me about Maddy Smouse and

1:15:33.356 --> 1:15:35.516
<v Speaker 2>he said, well, listen, if you had Madice Mouse. He

1:15:35.556 --> 1:15:37.996
<v Speaker 2>said something like all roads lead to Modice Mouse. I

1:15:38.036 --> 1:15:40.756
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, So that's how I got into He

1:15:40.836 --> 1:15:44.556
<v Speaker 2>took me on the Moon and Antarctica, and then six

1:15:44.636 --> 1:15:46.436
<v Speaker 2>seven years later I ended up being a full time

1:15:46.436 --> 1:15:48.476
<v Speaker 2>member of the band for like longer than people think.

1:15:48.516 --> 1:15:48.756
<v Speaker 3>I thought.

1:15:48.756 --> 1:15:51.116
<v Speaker 2>I joined the band two thousand and five and I

1:15:51.196 --> 1:15:55.236
<v Speaker 2>left the band twenty ten think and ended up moving

1:15:55.276 --> 1:15:58.116
<v Speaker 2>to Portland. So that was all down to Without Elliott,

1:15:58.116 --> 1:15:59.236
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't have known about that.

1:15:59.516 --> 1:16:00.356
<v Speaker 1>How did you ell you?

1:16:02.156 --> 1:16:04.876
<v Speaker 2>I was in LA and mutual friend said he wanted

1:16:04.916 --> 1:16:07.316
<v Speaker 2>to meet me, and we're a couple of mutual friends,

1:16:07.476 --> 1:16:09.996
<v Speaker 2>and I think XO would just come out, and I.

1:16:09.956 --> 1:16:12.356
<v Speaker 3>Thought that was great. I just thought he was really good.

1:16:13.076 --> 1:16:15.796
<v Speaker 2>And then then I knew a couple of these musicians

1:16:16.116 --> 1:16:18.356
<v Speaker 2>and he always had really nice The thing about him

1:16:18.396 --> 1:16:18.876
<v Speaker 2>was the people.

1:16:18.716 --> 1:16:20.796
<v Speaker 3>I knew who worked with him were all really nice people.

1:16:21.796 --> 1:16:23.756
<v Speaker 2>My friend Scott, he was his drummer for a while,

1:16:24.356 --> 1:16:25.956
<v Speaker 2>so we had kind of we had a.

1:16:25.916 --> 1:16:27.596
<v Speaker 3>Sort of mutual sort of scene.

1:16:27.636 --> 1:16:30.196
<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, but I look back on all this and

1:16:30.556 --> 1:16:32.556
<v Speaker 2>I think, Wow, I'm kind of glad.

1:16:32.676 --> 1:16:33.956
<v Speaker 3>I'm glad that things works out.

1:16:34.156 --> 1:16:37.236
<v Speaker 1>It worked out amazingly. Before we go, man, do you

1:16:37.276 --> 1:16:38.716
<v Speaker 1>have I see your guitars back there? Do you have

1:16:38.796 --> 1:16:40.756
<v Speaker 1>your nine? You have a you have a book coming

1:16:40.756 --> 1:16:43.636
<v Speaker 1>out called Mars Guitars that I'm excited to check out.

1:16:44.236 --> 1:16:47.436
<v Speaker 1>Do you have your nine pickup guitar?

1:16:48.676 --> 1:16:51.396
<v Speaker 3>No one's ever asked me about that guitar. They probably

1:16:51.396 --> 1:16:51.876
<v Speaker 3>won't again.

1:16:52.076 --> 1:16:55.036
<v Speaker 2>Just it's in my actual studio because this is this

1:16:55.076 --> 1:16:57.916
<v Speaker 2>is my house now. But it's an amazing sound.

1:16:58.156 --> 1:16:58.436
<v Speaker 3>It's a.

1:17:03.356 --> 1:17:09.276
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't drink anymore, but I wasn't actually drunk.

1:17:08.916 --> 1:17:09.716
<v Speaker 3>When I bought it.

1:17:09.756 --> 1:17:11.436
<v Speaker 2>I may head, but it was back in the days

1:17:11.436 --> 1:17:13.636
<v Speaker 2>when I was like drinking quite a lot.

1:17:14.236 --> 1:17:15.956
<v Speaker 3>I was either drunk from the night before.

1:17:15.996 --> 1:17:18.076
<v Speaker 2>But I went into a guitar shop with Nold galageries

1:17:18.116 --> 1:17:19.596
<v Speaker 2>only I think it was said maybe they might be

1:17:19.676 --> 1:17:22.236
<v Speaker 2>when the very first day we met and I saw

1:17:22.276 --> 1:17:24.996
<v Speaker 2>this thing, and I just was like my logic for

1:17:24.996 --> 1:17:28.796
<v Speaker 2>buying that guitar. I was like, Okay, if Kraftwork played guitar,

1:17:29.356 --> 1:17:32.116
<v Speaker 2>that's what they would play. Nola had only just met me,

1:17:32.156 --> 1:17:35.116
<v Speaker 2>and I think he thought this guy is a crazy,

1:17:35.716 --> 1:17:36.676
<v Speaker 2>crazy rock star.

1:17:37.956 --> 1:17:39.236
<v Speaker 1>That's a fair assessment.

1:17:40.156 --> 1:17:42.236
<v Speaker 2>But you know what, maybe it was about what it

1:17:42.356 --> 1:17:44.836
<v Speaker 2>probably almost thirty years later, I had to wait to

1:17:44.876 --> 1:17:46.356
<v Speaker 2>get a song out of it, but it was spirit,

1:17:46.476 --> 1:17:47.036
<v Speaker 2>power and soul.

1:17:47.356 --> 1:17:48.516
<v Speaker 1>Ah so cool.

1:17:48.756 --> 1:17:49.716
<v Speaker 3>It came up with the riffs.

1:17:49.796 --> 1:17:52.876
<v Speaker 2>So hey, that's my that's that's my excuse, and I'm

1:17:52.876 --> 1:17:54.076
<v Speaker 2>sticking to it. Man.

1:17:54.156 --> 1:17:55.876
<v Speaker 1>I got a thousand and one questions for you. Man,

1:17:55.916 --> 1:17:58.036
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. It's such a such a pleasure.

1:17:58.076 --> 1:18:00.476
<v Speaker 3>Hearkened to you all right, man, all the best. Thank you.

1:18:00.596 --> 1:18:06.716
<v Speaker 1>See he thanks Johnny Mar for talking about his epic career.

1:18:07.396 --> 1:18:10.076
<v Speaker 1>You can hear all of our favorite tracks featuring Mar,

1:18:10.116 --> 1:18:12.076
<v Speaker 1>as well as some of his solo work on a

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<v Speaker 1>playlist apt Broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken

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<v Speaker 1>Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.

1:18:22.956 --> 1:18:26.476
<v Speaker 1>You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

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<v Speaker 1>Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Holliday, and Eric sam Our. Editor is Sophie Kran.

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<v Speaker 1>expect Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rischman.