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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Johnny Marr is maybe the last in a line

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Speaker 1: of acclaimed British guitarists. He's played with tons of bands,

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Speaker 1: including most famously, The Smiths. Mar started playing guitar as

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Speaker 1: a young teenager growing up in Manchester. When he turned fifteen,

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Speaker 1: he dropped out of school and moved to London to

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Speaker 1: join the band Sister Ray. A couple of years later,

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Speaker 1: he wound up helping to form The Smiths with Morrissey,

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Speaker 1: Mike Joyce and Mars's friend and bassist Andy Rourke. Then,

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Speaker 1: after The Smiths broke up in eighty seven, he went

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Speaker 1: on to collaborate with an array of different musicians and

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Speaker 1: playing bands like The Pretenders, The The and even later

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Speaker 1: Modest Mouse. In the early aughts, Mars started releasing solo material,

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Speaker 1: and he's on the brink of releasing a new album

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Speaker 1: full of the best songs from his solo career. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, I talked to Johnny Marr about his exciting

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Speaker 1: work in the studio with Farrell and on Zimmer. Mar

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Speaker 1: also recalls the terror he felt performing live in front

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Speaker 1: of massive stadiums full of fans with The Pretenders on

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Speaker 1: YouTube's Joshua Tree Tour He also talks about the time

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Speaker 1: he bought a Fender Stratocaster with Noel Gallagher from Oasis

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Speaker 1: that Stratt had nine pickups and eventually led him to

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Speaker 1: write one of the best songs of his solo career.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Johnny Marr. It

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Speaker 1: seems like a really sort of whirlwind time in your life.

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Speaker 1: It must be like a lot of things that are

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Speaker 1: connected to you.

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Speaker 2: Now, do you know what I've been really looking at

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Speaker 2: in hand on her and maybe accept for I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a period in my I guess mid thirties or something where,

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Speaker 2: you know, for a couple of years I was sort

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Speaker 2: of like.

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Speaker 3: Doing other things. But I feel like I've been busy

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Speaker 3: for like forty years or something.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but I'm always

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of busy because I'm a workaholic. Well, actually

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Speaker 2: it's a bad way of putting it. I'm really passionate

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Speaker 2: about what I do. I've been doing the same things

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Speaker 2: as intensely as I do now.

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Speaker 3: I've been doing that since I was fifteen.

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Speaker 2: I left school at fifteen to join a pro band

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Speaker 2: with adults at fifteen and then really ever since nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty two, when I've made my first record with the Smiths,

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Speaker 2: I just feel like I've never really stopped, you know,

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Speaker 2: so I've been obviously I feel very very grateful to

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Speaker 2: be to do that. But yeah, I mean, I suppose

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Speaker 2: the last big thing I did was the Bond movie

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Speaker 2: with An Zimmer. But and this year, really we've got

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Speaker 2: a best of coming out. I was on tour with

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Speaker 2: the Killers last year and right now I'm just rehearsing

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Speaker 2: to go out and do.

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Speaker 3: Some more stuff.

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Speaker 2: Really, you know, I've not done a solo or best

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Speaker 2: of yet before that's about.

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Speaker 3: To come out now, And that was that was to

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Speaker 3: do with the record coming in.

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Speaker 2: The management just kind of went, hey, look, we know

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Speaker 2: that you're going to be expect and to go in

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Speaker 2: and make another LP, make another album. Well you've only

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Speaker 2: just done a double album last year, so just hold

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Speaker 2: your horses and let's just it's been ten years since

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Speaker 2: you've had this solo band, and let's just put it

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Speaker 2: all on the best of and if you think it's

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Speaker 2: a good listen, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Do you like it? Have you have you sequenced it

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Speaker 1: and listened.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I know this might sound a little

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Speaker 2: odd to say, but being given the assignment to put

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Speaker 2: a best of out when it wasn't driven by me,

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Speaker 2: when it comes from someone else, and going oh okay, right,

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Speaker 2: let me look at that, and then getting it all

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Speaker 2: mastered and listening to it, you know, because I had

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Speaker 2: to listen to the test pressings. Right, So the test

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Speaker 2: presents coming, and you know, I've been doing this since

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Speaker 2: I was a kid, right, test Presidence come.

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Speaker 3: I'm always excited about that.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, great white labels, and you put it on

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Speaker 2: the turntable and you have to sit and you have

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Speaker 2: to listen for any little pops or anything.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I said to the band guys last night, I got

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Speaker 2: the test presence of the You know, it's a pretty

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Speaker 2: good album, man, it's a good listen, you know, because

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Speaker 2: I don't take anything for granted, you know, justin so

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Speaker 2: so pleased with it.

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Speaker 1: It's great. I'd be excited to check that out because

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Speaker 1: I've sort of been over the last year just curating,

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Speaker 1: oddly enough, just different playlists of things that you're involved in,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, just randomly resequencing Smith's records. Just

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Speaker 1: for fun or like, yeah, I made a playlist of

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Speaker 1: stuff that was just stuff that you've played on but

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Speaker 1: weren't like bands that you were actually a part of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then your last record, the Fever Dreams one through four,

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Speaker 1: I mean just came out was like a wealth of

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Speaker 1: great material. You know.

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Speaker 3: Thanks. I'm glad that that I've done all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean obviously, but I did a couple of tracks

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Speaker 2: with Beck, and then I did maybe four or five

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Speaker 2: tracks with John Fishanty, and then I popped up on

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Speaker 2: records with all these different really cool musicians.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, a chance. Yeah, And that was so well.

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Speaker 2: As I was doing it, I was thinking, wow, man,

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Speaker 2: this is oh I love this music, and what a

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Speaker 2: cool thing, you know. So so like when John Vishanity

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Speaker 2: he invited me over to when he was working on

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Speaker 2: the Imperium and it was like, I've got these tracks,

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Speaker 2: take your pick, and he played me a track and

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Speaker 2: I said, oh, I think I can do something on

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Speaker 2: that band and played me another track. Oh I've got

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Speaker 2: an idea for that bank And then you know, a

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Speaker 2: couple of days later you kind of go, well, that

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Speaker 2: was a nice experience. So I think what I'm saying

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Speaker 2: is none of it's planned. It's all this kind of

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say it a journey. I've been a

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Speaker 2: musician and being very very fortunate that people who were

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Speaker 2: doing cool things have invited me to do cool things

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Speaker 2: with them.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's never been planned.

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Speaker 1: Is it something about you like you yourself as a person,

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Speaker 1: or about your plane, or a bit of both that

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Speaker 1: allows you to fit in with so many different kinds

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Speaker 1: of people.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess so.

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Speaker 2: But I think musicians are very welcoming and inclusive types

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Speaker 2: of people. It might be a bit cheesy, but I

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Speaker 2: have a certain kind of pride in that, not my

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Speaker 2: personal coming about myself, but my you know, brothers and

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Speaker 2: sisters of music. You know, they because let's put it

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Speaker 2: this way, I've been around.

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Speaker 3: I don't whether you've.

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Speaker 2: Ever been in a room with several actors or in

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Speaker 2: a taxi with several comedians, but often there's a bit

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Speaker 2: of a competitive vibe. I know it's a generalization, right.

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Speaker 2: I know a bunch of great actors, and I know

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Speaker 2: a bunch of some great comedians, right, But I've noticed

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Speaker 2: that musicians are very You get a couple of musicians

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Speaker 2: together and they go, hey, did you have you ever heard.

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Speaker 3: This thing that came out in nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, you're gonna love it, or I really really

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Speaker 2: like this thing, or oh man, did you know that

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Speaker 2: he played the drums on this record in nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 2: And there's always this sharing kind of thinking, Well, I'm

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Speaker 2: really typical like that as a As a musician, I

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Speaker 2: suppose I'm very enthusiastic if.

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Speaker 3: I hear something that I'm into.

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Speaker 2: And the people that I've mentioned maybe Pet Shop Boys

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Speaker 2: as well. You know, we had a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a tradition for a while there where they would always.

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Speaker 3: Get me to do the B sides of their singles.

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Speaker 2: They were like, well, okay, we've got this this electro

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Speaker 2: pop and the B side. Usually it'd be like this,

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Speaker 2: the B side is slightly experimental and it'd be interesting

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Speaker 2: to put a guitar on it, which in Pet Shop

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Speaker 2: Boys land is being experimental, which and then and they go, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: Johnny'll do it. And I'm the guy for that because

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Speaker 2: I love them, and so I've got to be on

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Speaker 2: more Pet Shop Boys records than any other musician. I

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Speaker 2: pop up and do all the ones where they go, listen,

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Speaker 2: we've got this guitar song. You know, I'm very proud

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Speaker 2: of that. So to answer your question, it's a partly

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Speaker 2: to do with my personality being very very typical kind

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Speaker 2: of musician. That means I will stay in the studio

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Speaker 2: either listening to stories or telling stories till really till

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Speaker 2: three am or whatever it used to be seven am.

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Speaker 2: But these days are a little bit more moderate. And

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Speaker 2: the other thing is, I guess the second thing you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: I like to play guitar that I think is appropriate

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Speaker 2: to whatever the song is. So if all that's required is,

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Speaker 2: like recently on Know Gallagher stuff, for instance, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going in there going right okay by bar eight, you

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Speaker 2: really need to know that I'm on it.

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Speaker 3: I just kind of go, what's the song?

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Speaker 2: And I sort of think in that regard, I'm not

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Speaker 2: really beyond thinking like a session musician.

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Speaker 3: I don't have to really be this big deal on it,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's the thing I really enjoy about your playing in

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Speaker 1: your career is there is this bit of you that

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Speaker 1: almost approaches music for the way like a jazz musician

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Speaker 1: did in the fifties or sixties, like Herbie Hancock can

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Speaker 1: put out you know, peer in Islands and then also

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Speaker 1: just go play on like a great Lee Morgan record,

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Speaker 1: and he puts as much of his heart and soul

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Speaker 1: into that side man workquote unquote, you can tell as

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Speaker 1: he seem to have done his own records, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's an absolute honor because I think

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Speaker 2: that sort of feels about right. I think when you

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Speaker 2: were talking then, I was thinking paradoxically, people who say

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Speaker 2: they don't like jazz, or people who don't like jazz

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Speaker 2: think it's about just people blowing. But to me, one

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Speaker 2: of the best things about jazz musicians is to be

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Speaker 2: a good jazz musician, you have to listen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to listen to what everybody else is doing.

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Speaker 2: It's a conversation and you know you can do that

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Speaker 2: in indie rock again, come back to say the most

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Speaker 2: recent thing that I've done with somebody else with no

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Speaker 2: Gallagher stuff. I want to make the record really good,

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Speaker 2: you know. So there's bits where you lay out, and

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Speaker 2: then there's bits when you play just textual stuff, and

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Speaker 2: then there's bits where you come in with the riff.

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Speaker 2: And ultimately it's his record and his vision, and he

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Speaker 2: trusts me to do because he knows that I'm all

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Speaker 2: about the big picture and not about me just stepping

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Speaker 2: all over it.

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Speaker 3: Other times though, you know, I did a record with.

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Speaker 2: The Australian project Avalanches a few years ago with me

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Speaker 2: and MGM.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me and MGMT did a song with them, and

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Speaker 2: that was that was really cool because they had this

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Speaker 2: idea for this riff and I said, okay, well what

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Speaker 2: about if I just develop it? And then what I

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Speaker 2: did was sort of featured and that kind of floated

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Speaker 2: through the track.

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Speaker 3: So it's whatever's appropriate.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 2: I remember when I was learning, maybe twelve thirteen something,

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Speaker 2: so I sorould have been in the mid seventies just

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Speaker 2: for punk broke out. Back then, there wasn't you know,

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Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to go in Barnes and Noble

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Speaker 2: or Waterstones in England and see like shelves and shelves

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Speaker 2: of books about anybody.

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Speaker 3: You know. I'm sure Justin Bieber has got a whole

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Speaker 3: wall fall, but whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but back then that was not a thing, right,

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Speaker 2: So I would read the music press, and I would

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Speaker 2: go into the library and if a book did appear

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Speaker 2: about whoever it was, I didn't if it caught my interest,

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Speaker 2: I would read it. Or I just stand in the

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Speaker 2: bookstore and read it. There's only a few things around.

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Speaker 2: I remember there's one about Pete Sounds, and there was

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Speaker 2: a Miles Davis one, and there was led Zeppelin monster stuff.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, when you start off, if you're really obsessive,

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Speaker 2: as I was, some bits of information really stick to you.

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Speaker 2: And there was it was either Keith Richards or John Lennon,

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Speaker 2: I think, was saying that the most important part of

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Speaker 2: being a guitar player is being able to play rhythm.

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Speaker 2: And to a twelve year old boy whose poles are

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Speaker 2: all going, you know, trying to play all this shreddy

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Speaker 2: stuff or whatever, when I read that information, I was

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Speaker 2: kind of like, huh, it sounded really noble to me.

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Speaker 2: And this thing of underpinning the band and having the

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Speaker 2: groove down and all of that. And then obviously as

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Speaker 2: time went on and I got into people like Keith

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Speaker 2: Richards or or obviously Nol Rogers and people like that,

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Speaker 2: and you know, Jimmy Nolan who plays with James Brown

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Speaker 2: and just any number of really great rhythm players. That's

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Speaker 2: just one of the chapters that you need to have

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Speaker 2: got through, you know what I mean. It's it's just

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Speaker 2: part of being a guitar player. I think I just

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Speaker 2: think it's really cool to just like be appropriate to

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Speaker 2: the song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is your phone just open? You just say, people

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Speaker 1: just know you're ready to play.

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Speaker 2: Allays pretty yeah, I know pretty much because it's been

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Speaker 2: that way for years.

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Speaker 3: I mean a lot. I know a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm always I'm never not available for Brian

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Speaker 2: Ferry because I've been working with Brian now since nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighties eighty seven, and Brian's always writing, and he's always

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Speaker 2: he's always making tracks. He's always got tracks upon the

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Speaker 2: go and he comes back to them and all this

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So that's been an ongoing thing for years.

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Speaker 2: But then since I guess twenty ten, Hans Zimmer, if

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Speaker 2: Hands wants something doing, even if it's something on the

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Speaker 2: on the choiet, just you know, you need a little

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Speaker 2: bit of this or I'll do that.

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Speaker 1: An incredible relationship to I mean musical relationship you guys

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Speaker 1: have built.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he really taught me a lot. I think with Hands,

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Speaker 2: he's he's got the soul of a rock musician. And

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Speaker 2: if you go to his shows, which are now like

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Speaker 2: three hours long, and then's some of the pieces that

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Speaker 2: he's doing in this current show, which actually my son

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Speaker 2: plays plays in that.

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Speaker 3: I've been up I've been upgraded to the mar.

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Speaker 2: Version two two point zero, so my son plays in that.

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Speaker 3: But there are some moments in that.

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Speaker 2: Show that it makes Kashmir sound like a boy band.

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Speaker 2: It's wow, amazingly orchestrated rock music.

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Speaker 3: At the heart of it is rock music.

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Speaker 2: And you know, with me and hands, you know, once

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Speaker 2: we get talking about music and talking about melotrons and

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Speaker 2: fair lights or late sixties strats or what you know,

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Speaker 2: or Tangerine dream or whatever next thing, we look at

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Speaker 2: our watch and it's you know, it's quarter past three

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Speaker 2: in the am, you know, and we just sit around

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Speaker 2: his studios listening to music, playing music or talking about music.

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Speaker 2: It's so that's what my pals are, like. My friends

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Speaker 2: are the same as me, you know, we're Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's what I dreamed of when I.

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Speaker 3: Was a kid, you know.

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Speaker 1: For Shanty's same kind of character being around John Frushanti,

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Speaker 1: the amount of guitar players he can reference in a

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Speaker 1: given moment, and he feels like he's able to synthesize

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Speaker 1: all of these disparate you know, he's like almost like

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Speaker 1: a computer to me, like talk about AI, It's like,

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Speaker 1: how is he pulling from all that at once? That's

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Speaker 1: it's insane.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's well, there's a couple of things that come

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Speaker 2: to mind when you say that. I think you're absolutely

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Speaker 2: right about John and there's a few other people I

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Speaker 2: know like that. I think people who are great, whoever

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Speaker 2: they are. But in my field it's musicians. They are experts,

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Speaker 2: absolute experts. And that might sound obvious, but there's this

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Speaker 2: famous sorry about when Bob Marley first went into record

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Speaker 2: and it was like some little four track and he

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Speaker 2: was like sixteen or seventeen or something. I think it

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Speaker 2: was with cocksoil or something. And if you hear enough

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Speaker 2: about those stories, you hear you know what. He was

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Speaker 2: kind of a pain in the ass because he would

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Speaker 2: be like, the backing vocals are too loud, back in

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Speaker 2: volks are too loud. Because he'd studied the Coasters, and

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Speaker 2: he'd studied the Drifters, and he'd studied Curtis Mayfel and

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Speaker 2: the Impressions, so he knew how the backing vocals on those.

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Speaker 2: This is when he was a kid, right, But you

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Speaker 2: could go right across in sports, I'm sure in business too.

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Speaker 2: But people who are great are real experts. I guess

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Speaker 2: it's not a surprise because it's your passion.

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Speaker 1: So become concessive, you become obsessive, yeah, because yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you love it.

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Speaker 3: That's right, you know.

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Speaker 2: And then the second thing you're talking about there, like

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Speaker 2: with Johnny's and other people like that, are there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of musicians like this. They take all of these

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Speaker 2: different elements that only to them make sense and then

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Speaker 2: it comes out. But when you hear it, he goes, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like that. So for example, in my case,

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Speaker 2: like for forty years, I didn't really do a lot

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Speaker 2: of interviews in the early Smith's days, but when I

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Speaker 2: was asked about guitar playing, when I had to really

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Speaker 2: nail it down, I was like, well, now Rogers, bertianch

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Speaker 2: and James Williamson from the studios, Now that's yeah, but

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Speaker 2: that's a pretty boat after anyone who's followed me for

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Speaker 2: years and years knows that they're my like they're my tree.

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I love a lot, you know, I

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Speaker 3: love what Roy Gallagher was doing.

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Speaker 2: I love what you know John mcgeeock from the band

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Speaker 2: Cheese and Will Sergeant from the bunny men.

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Speaker 3: I mean there's hundreds.

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Speaker 2: I mean I could stay of just giving a list

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Speaker 2: and lists of amazing guitar players. Obviously, but at first

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Speaker 2: people would were like, huh, come again, what you like

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Speaker 2: now Rogers I influenced the Smith's. But over time, now

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Speaker 2: people know that some of these songs like that, I go, well,

350
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Speaker 2: listen to the Boy would listen to the second verse

351
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Speaker 2: in The Boy with the Thorn in his Side, and.

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Speaker 3: Or there's a famous story about when I wrote hand

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Speaker 3: in Glove.

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Speaker 2: It just started out as a sheet riff, so point

355
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Speaker 2: being that that made total sense to me. But you

356
00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:21,876
Speaker 2: put it all through a funnel, comes in through your

357
00:17:21,916 --> 00:17:25,316
Speaker 2: own mind, and then it comes out and people go, oh, yeah,

358
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Speaker 2: it sounds like Jenny mar right. But to me, if

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Speaker 2: I told you what I was thinking of when I

360
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Speaker 2: was trying to come up with some of these, if

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Speaker 2: you go what.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you mentioned James Williamson too, though,

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Speaker 1: because as much as I love the Ashley on Brown

364
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Speaker 1: Ashton and the Ashton Brothers, James Williamson man like some

365
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Speaker 1: of those. I feel like some of that music with

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Speaker 1: James gets discounted. That Kill City re Iggy is just one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, man, I go to that

368
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Speaker 1: record all the time because it just blows me away.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing because when I first met Noel Gallagher,

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Speaker 2: he was a fairly he was young. No would have

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Speaker 2: been about maybe twenty or something nineteen. I was pretty

372
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Speaker 2: young myself, maybe twenty six, twenty seven. But the first

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Speaker 2: time he came to my house, that was the record

374
00:18:08,676 --> 00:18:10,596
Speaker 2: I gave him. It wasn't aware of it, but I

375
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Speaker 2: don't know whether this is so what I got from

376
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Speaker 2: James Williamson. I had thought I was playing when I

377
00:18:16,276 --> 00:18:26,516
Speaker 2: was about fifteen, and it was something like and a

378
00:18:26,556 --> 00:18:28,556
Speaker 2: friend of mine, Billy Duffey, went on it being the call.

379
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Speaker 2: He said to me, now that sounds like gimme Danger,

380
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Speaker 2: and I was like, what's that. I've never heard of

381
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Speaker 2: gimme danger? And anyway, so a long story, but I

382
00:18:36,636 --> 00:18:50,756
Speaker 2: tracked down Raw Power. So when I heard that, I went, well,

383
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Speaker 2: that sounds like the way I'm trying to play, so

384
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Speaker 2: you know.

385
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Speaker 3: The truth be told.

386
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Speaker 2: I was a bit pissed that someone had already beat

387
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Speaker 2: me to this, this new song I was writing.

388
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Speaker 3: So James is a massive influence on me.

389
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Speaker 2: Massive. When I heard that, I just kind of went,

390
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Speaker 2: you're on the right path. You know you're doing the

391
00:19:08,476 --> 00:19:11,436
Speaker 2: right thing. And then we'd say, just for an illustration,

392
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Speaker 2: seeing as I don't always do this, but just guitar,

393
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Speaker 2: I don't make it hear his probably.

394
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Speaker 4: But the Smith's song Handing Glove, well that started off.

395
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Speaker 4: When I first started playing.

396
00:19:31,556 --> 00:19:44,596
Speaker 2: It, it went, which is me trying to be cheek

397
00:19:49,916 --> 00:19:52,396
Speaker 2: It was my girlfriend said make it sound more like Iggy,

398
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Speaker 2: so I did and I ended up sounding like that.

399
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Speaker 3: But that and that was the first Smith single.

400
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Speaker 2: But when we came out, no one I believed when

401
00:20:00,156 --> 00:20:03,396
Speaker 2: I said I was now Rogers was a huge influence

402
00:20:03,436 --> 00:20:06,436
Speaker 2: on me, you know. So you know that's what musicians

403
00:20:06,436 --> 00:20:08,596
Speaker 2: are like, though, aren't they? And I think maybe creative

404
00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:12,156
Speaker 2: people as well. Sometimes you're trying to copy your heroes

405
00:20:12,156 --> 00:20:15,996
Speaker 2: and your limitations kind of get I mean, I'm not

406
00:20:15,996 --> 00:20:18,196
Speaker 2: the first person I said this, but your limitations just

407
00:20:18,276 --> 00:20:20,796
Speaker 2: kind of put a stamp on what you can and

408
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Speaker 2: can't do.

409
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Speaker 1: We're going to take a break and then come back

410
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Speaker 1: with more of my interview with Johnny Marr. We're back

411
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Speaker 1: with more from Johnny Marr. How much in terms of

412
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Speaker 1: just raw skill do you feel like you've developed from

413
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Speaker 1: let's say nineteen eighty to now.

414
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Speaker 3: Well, I took it really seriously. I started.

415
00:20:46,276 --> 00:20:50,436
Speaker 2: My parents to this day is still really their music freaks.

416
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Speaker 2: So I grew up in a house of Irish parents

417
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Speaker 2: who treated music like it was a religion. So if

418
00:20:57,196 --> 00:21:01,756
Speaker 2: they like someone, they really really really like them. And

419
00:21:01,836 --> 00:21:03,956
Speaker 2: so I want to see my parents, who are in

420
00:21:03,996 --> 00:21:06,636
Speaker 2: their eighties now, and my dad was showing me this

421
00:21:06,836 --> 00:21:08,916
Speaker 2: country music podcast that he just got into.

422
00:21:09,556 --> 00:21:10,716
Speaker 3: They're still didn't it to this day.

423
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Speaker 2: My mother she's super into like watching new country singers

424
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Speaker 2: and singer songwriters on YouTube. So they were really young

425
00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:21,916
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, so I was brought up

426
00:21:21,956 --> 00:21:27,796
Speaker 2: around all these young Irish adults, your teenagers, really playing music.

427
00:21:27,916 --> 00:21:30,636
Speaker 2: So to answer your question, what happened was I just

428
00:21:30,676 --> 00:21:32,036
Speaker 2: got really obsessed with the guitar.

429
00:21:32,196 --> 00:21:34,596
Speaker 3: I got my first proper one that I could play chords.

430
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Speaker 2: On when I was about eight or nine, and then

431
00:21:37,036 --> 00:21:38,876
Speaker 2: I started just trying to play the records on the

432
00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:41,836
Speaker 2: radio like a lot of people. So I started playing,

433
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Speaker 2: you know, like getting my own little tunes together and

434
00:21:44,636 --> 00:21:46,476
Speaker 2: stuff when I was about nine or ten, and then

435
00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:50,196
Speaker 2: enrolling my friends to be these little bands, and I

436
00:21:50,436 --> 00:21:53,276
Speaker 2: you know i'd write, I'd do just like t Rex ripoffs. Really,

437
00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:56,196
Speaker 2: all my songs were just like t Rex copies.

438
00:21:56,316 --> 00:21:58,076
Speaker 3: And then I just.

439
00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:00,476
Speaker 2: Had a sort of natural knack to be out of

440
00:22:00,476 --> 00:22:01,916
Speaker 2: place too kind of riffs.

441
00:22:02,396 --> 00:22:05,876
Speaker 3: But if i'd have been the sort of person who was,

442
00:22:06,916 --> 00:22:07,196
Speaker 3: you know.

443
00:22:07,316 --> 00:22:09,716
Speaker 2: Just in a copy of other people and not being

444
00:22:09,716 --> 00:22:13,836
Speaker 2: a songwriter, you know, I probably would have been shredding

445
00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:16,276
Speaker 2: away forever. But you know it's not really my thing

446
00:22:16,316 --> 00:22:19,036
Speaker 2: that really I wanted to sort of I went to

447
00:22:19,036 --> 00:22:20,916
Speaker 2: have my own band with my own sound, you know,

448
00:22:21,676 --> 00:22:23,756
Speaker 2: so the skill I have a master. I don't know

449
00:22:23,796 --> 00:22:27,116
Speaker 2: I is answering your question, but come back to hand Zimmer.

450
00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:31,396
Speaker 2: What I did on inception was pretty simple. But when

451
00:22:31,436 --> 00:22:34,636
Speaker 2: it came to actually playing it on stage with an orchestra,

452
00:22:35,196 --> 00:22:37,676
Speaker 2: like sixty pieces on stage with a choir and all

453
00:22:37,676 --> 00:22:39,636
Speaker 2: of that stuff, I wouldn't have ever been able to

454
00:22:39,716 --> 00:22:41,636
Speaker 2: do that when I was in my twenties. I wouldn't

455
00:22:41,636 --> 00:22:43,436
Speaker 2: have been able to do it in my thirties either, really,

456
00:22:43,716 --> 00:22:45,236
Speaker 2: and I might not have even come up with that

457
00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:46,116
Speaker 2: really simple part.

458
00:22:46,116 --> 00:22:48,556
Speaker 3: I think when you get older, you kind of know

459
00:22:48,596 --> 00:22:49,036
Speaker 3: what you're.

460
00:22:48,916 --> 00:22:53,676
Speaker 2: About, and it's about what I came up with was

461
00:22:53,716 --> 00:22:56,996
Speaker 2: kind of right for the movie, and I might not

462
00:22:56,996 --> 00:22:58,596
Speaker 2: have ever been able to do that when I was young.

463
00:22:58,796 --> 00:23:02,076
Speaker 2: But I practice every day. I go through periods where

464
00:23:02,836 --> 00:23:06,356
Speaker 2: I just practice practice, and then I play absent mindedly

465
00:23:06,436 --> 00:23:08,836
Speaker 2: when i'm you know, around the house and watching TV.

466
00:23:09,596 --> 00:23:13,076
Speaker 2: But I'm going through another phase now where I'll come

467
00:23:13,116 --> 00:23:15,876
Speaker 2: in this little studio here and put the headphones on

468
00:23:15,996 --> 00:23:19,036
Speaker 2: and and just play and play and try and get

469
00:23:19,236 --> 00:23:20,756
Speaker 2: you know, try and get my chops. So maybe that's

470
00:23:20,756 --> 00:23:23,516
Speaker 2: because I'm going out live or I don't know why,

471
00:23:23,556 --> 00:23:27,476
Speaker 2: but that connects me to the kidder was when I

472
00:23:27,516 --> 00:23:28,476
Speaker 2: was eleven or twelve.

473
00:23:29,516 --> 00:23:31,156
Speaker 3: Honestly, it's got nothing to do with career.

474
00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:34,356
Speaker 2: There's got nothing to do with the Smith's, got nothing

475
00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:36,436
Speaker 2: to do with like you know, Johnny Marra, or nothing

476
00:23:36,476 --> 00:23:39,116
Speaker 2: to do with business or anything.

477
00:23:39,236 --> 00:23:41,516
Speaker 3: It's because that was my first love. When I was

478
00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:42,156
Speaker 3: ten year eleven.

479
00:23:42,156 --> 00:23:44,156
Speaker 2: I used to peel off from when kids were playing

480
00:23:44,156 --> 00:23:46,556
Speaker 2: football or we were whatever, we were climbing trees or whatever.

481
00:23:47,116 --> 00:23:49,276
Speaker 2: Sometimes I would just go and disappear and I'd go

482
00:23:49,316 --> 00:23:51,236
Speaker 2: into my room on my own and just play for

483
00:23:51,236 --> 00:23:53,116
Speaker 2: a couple of hours, not even plugged in. And I

484
00:23:53,236 --> 00:23:58,036
Speaker 2: make all these discoveries and moving chord shapes around. And

485
00:23:59,276 --> 00:24:03,156
Speaker 2: you know what, man, I'm so grateful that I still

486
00:24:03,596 --> 00:24:08,036
Speaker 2: want to do that. Yeah, for fun, It's like it's

487
00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:08,556
Speaker 2: my hobby.

488
00:24:09,436 --> 00:24:12,436
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the dream for any guitar player to have

489
00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:14,796
Speaker 1: a setup, just like you have inspible to do that

490
00:24:14,876 --> 00:24:15,276
Speaker 1: all day.

491
00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:18,556
Speaker 3: That's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, musician and.

492
00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:20,996
Speaker 1: You know whatever respective instrument is, like, that's the dream.

493
00:24:21,636 --> 00:24:22,116
Speaker 3: Yeah.

494
00:24:22,156 --> 00:24:23,836
Speaker 2: But then when it comes time to do an album

495
00:24:23,916 --> 00:24:26,396
Speaker 2: sometimes I have to I know myself well enough that

496
00:24:26,796 --> 00:24:30,876
Speaker 2: I have to think about the guitar in a different way.

497
00:24:31,356 --> 00:24:33,236
Speaker 2: If you give me an if you give me three

498
00:24:33,276 --> 00:24:36,476
Speaker 2: more lifetimes, okay, I'd love to be John McLaughlin.

499
00:24:37,396 --> 00:24:39,116
Speaker 1: Yeah, ah, but.

500
00:24:39,156 --> 00:24:40,276
Speaker 3: I'm also quite happy.

501
00:24:40,516 --> 00:24:43,116
Speaker 2: But I'm also really happy having been the guitar player

502
00:24:43,116 --> 00:24:44,476
Speaker 2: in Modest Mouse for a few years.

503
00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:45,916
Speaker 3: That's fine by me.

504
00:24:46,396 --> 00:24:50,356
Speaker 1: That was incredible work, man, incredible record.

505
00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:54,516
Speaker 2: That was because I was in a situation with amazing chemistry.

506
00:24:55,356 --> 00:24:59,796
Speaker 2: There was a moment when we were in Mississippi and

507
00:24:59,836 --> 00:25:02,556
Speaker 2: we were recording the recording. It's one of those times

508
00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:04,916
Speaker 2: it was like maybe what the four o'clock in the afternoon,

509
00:25:05,476 --> 00:25:08,116
Speaker 2: We've been trying to get the backing track down to

510
00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:12,636
Speaker 2: song on week three or whatever, and I was just

511
00:25:12,676 --> 00:25:15,036
Speaker 2: stood there and then I just had a moment of

512
00:25:16,276 --> 00:25:20,556
Speaker 2: present moment awareness, as you know, as it's called, where

513
00:25:21,396 --> 00:25:25,996
Speaker 2: I just looked around and I went the chemistry in

514
00:25:26,076 --> 00:25:30,316
Speaker 2: this room with these bunch of people is really really special.

515
00:25:31,036 --> 00:25:35,516
Speaker 2: This particular bunch of people right now is not just

516
00:25:35,636 --> 00:25:38,076
Speaker 2: a good vibe, but it's really unusual.

517
00:25:38,996 --> 00:25:40,876
Speaker 3: Because one we had two drummers in that band.

518
00:25:40,916 --> 00:25:43,796
Speaker 2: One drummer was his thing was like he might have

519
00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:46,556
Speaker 2: been like, Okay, on this track, I hear pair Ubu,

520
00:25:46,916 --> 00:25:50,516
Speaker 2: or I hear public image, public Image, or right hear

521
00:25:50,716 --> 00:25:51,636
Speaker 2: Stuart Copeland.

522
00:25:52,076 --> 00:25:54,116
Speaker 3: So Joe Plumm would be doing that. And then Jerey

523
00:25:54,156 --> 00:25:54,956
Speaker 3: Mike Green.

524
00:25:55,156 --> 00:25:58,596
Speaker 2: Who passed away just only a few months ago, he

525
00:25:58,716 --> 00:26:00,516
Speaker 2: was the other drummer, and he would have been going

526
00:26:00,556 --> 00:26:04,356
Speaker 2: in his head, oh, this is like fellow cootie, or

527
00:26:04,436 --> 00:26:06,716
Speaker 2: this is like a rave or so yeah, there's two

528
00:26:06,756 --> 00:26:10,516
Speaker 2: drummers like that. And then the base player, Eric Judy,

529
00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:14,836
Speaker 2: he was always writing these like little tunes on either

530
00:26:14,876 --> 00:26:17,636
Speaker 2: accordion at that time or he was teaching him yeah,

531
00:26:17,756 --> 00:26:20,636
Speaker 2: teaching himself the accordion, teach himself the flute. And he

532
00:26:20,876 --> 00:26:22,836
Speaker 2: had some little riff that he'd be playing on the flute,

533
00:26:22,876 --> 00:26:24,676
Speaker 2: and then he just go, oh, I'm just trying to

534
00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:28,916
Speaker 2: do that on the base. So yeah, these really unusual, cool,

535
00:26:29,276 --> 00:26:33,516
Speaker 2: almost dugby basslines. And then the other guy in the band,

536
00:26:33,636 --> 00:26:35,636
Speaker 2: he's a real utility guy, and he might have been

537
00:26:35,916 --> 00:26:38,356
Speaker 2: doing something on a pedal steel or his mind was

538
00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:39,076
Speaker 2: somewhere else.

539
00:26:39,356 --> 00:26:43,196
Speaker 3: And then Isaac's got his amazing multi.

540
00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:46,156
Speaker 2: Layered lyrical agenda that you know is coming from all

541
00:26:46,156 --> 00:26:50,036
Speaker 2: different places. And then I got my thing that I

542
00:26:50,116 --> 00:26:51,636
Speaker 2: was like when I got out of bed that day

543
00:26:51,716 --> 00:26:53,716
Speaker 2: or that week, I was going, this is what I

544
00:26:53,716 --> 00:26:55,396
Speaker 2: want my this is what I want to bring to

545
00:26:55,436 --> 00:26:58,956
Speaker 2: this outfit, whatever agenda I've got, and it all fit,

546
00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:00,476
Speaker 2: it all just fitted together.

547
00:27:01,196 --> 00:27:04,516
Speaker 1: Did you have to think through how you might blend

548
00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:06,356
Speaker 1: with this, because it seems like everyone felt like they

549
00:27:06,396 --> 00:27:08,796
Speaker 1: had their thing and you're kind of getting put into it.

550
00:27:08,916 --> 00:27:09,116
Speaker 2: Yeah.

551
00:27:09,356 --> 00:27:11,036
Speaker 1: Did it take you second to figure out, Okay, this

552
00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:12,796
Speaker 1: is what I want to bring or was it kinda

553
00:27:13,156 --> 00:27:14,716
Speaker 1: just luckily instantaneous.

554
00:27:15,076 --> 00:27:18,556
Speaker 2: No, No, I conceptualized it, which I don't mean for

555
00:27:18,796 --> 00:27:22,396
Speaker 2: to sound very dry or contrived, even though No, I

556
00:27:22,596 --> 00:27:26,116
Speaker 2: really enjoyed going, what's my role here? How can I

557
00:27:26,196 --> 00:27:34,036
Speaker 2: be really useful and bring something melodic, catchy, technical. It

558
00:27:34,156 --> 00:27:37,276
Speaker 2: was a little like Ocean six and I happened to

559
00:27:37,316 --> 00:27:40,876
Speaker 2: be the kind of British bomb disposal expert or this safer.

560
00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:41,956
Speaker 3: I was like the safe.

561
00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:43,476
Speaker 1: Yeah.

562
00:27:43,636 --> 00:27:44,716
Speaker 3: No, I really enjoyed that.

563
00:27:44,796 --> 00:27:47,196
Speaker 2: I thought, okay, I can't just put my head down

564
00:27:47,236 --> 00:27:50,076
Speaker 2: and go one, two, three four and just play. I

565
00:27:50,156 --> 00:27:54,996
Speaker 2: really really enjoyed devising all these parts, and on that

566
00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:59,636
Speaker 2: record we were dead for anyone who's interested. Usually I'm

567
00:27:59,676 --> 00:28:01,436
Speaker 2: doing all the stuff on the left and Isaac's doing

568
00:28:01,476 --> 00:28:03,756
Speaker 2: the stuff on the right, and we this might be

569
00:28:03,756 --> 00:28:06,716
Speaker 2: getting a bit too music. But when we were coming

570
00:28:06,756 --> 00:28:08,476
Speaker 2: up with all those songs and those parts, we were

571
00:28:08,476 --> 00:28:12,716
Speaker 2: in this attic in Portland, and sometimes Isaac and the

572
00:28:12,756 --> 00:28:15,236
Speaker 2: way I started to think about it, it was like, you know,

573
00:28:15,676 --> 00:28:18,356
Speaker 2: two racing car drivers that were on the same team,

574
00:28:18,396 --> 00:28:21,476
Speaker 2: you know, like sometimes that McLaren and stuff the same team,

575
00:28:21,676 --> 00:28:23,796
Speaker 2: and we're both going around this track and then sometimes

576
00:28:23,836 --> 00:28:26,476
Speaker 2: it's like no after you, no after you, after you,

577
00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:30,796
Speaker 2: And occasionally we literally physically crashed into each other because

578
00:28:30,836 --> 00:28:34,076
Speaker 2: we were stood either back to back or next to

579
00:28:34,116 --> 00:28:35,116
Speaker 2: each other in this kind of.

580
00:28:35,036 --> 00:28:37,036
Speaker 3: Little space, and it was really hot.

581
00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:39,356
Speaker 2: And we're up there and we've been out there for hours,

582
00:28:39,356 --> 00:28:42,636
Speaker 2: and sometimes we'd be a bit buzzed and I'm really

583
00:28:42,996 --> 00:28:44,756
Speaker 2: really listening to each other and I'm trying to Then

584
00:28:44,756 --> 00:28:46,996
Speaker 2: I'll just jump up the octave and then he plays

585
00:28:47,036 --> 00:28:50,156
Speaker 2: something and I'd go, I'll get down there and literally

586
00:28:50,236 --> 00:28:51,956
Speaker 2: we sometimes we bang into each other.

587
00:28:51,996 --> 00:28:54,116
Speaker 3: And I thought that was really cool.

588
00:28:54,516 --> 00:28:58,196
Speaker 1: Wow, howd you add that level of chemistry before, like

589
00:28:58,276 --> 00:28:59,956
Speaker 1: that level of intense.

590
00:29:00,876 --> 00:29:03,476
Speaker 2: In a different way, yeah, in the the but it

591
00:29:03,516 --> 00:29:05,836
Speaker 2: was a different thing with all the bands that I've

592
00:29:05,836 --> 00:29:09,236
Speaker 2: actually been a band member of. I think I bring

593
00:29:09,636 --> 00:29:12,796
Speaker 2: a certain kind of intensity and a sort of belief

594
00:29:12,836 --> 00:29:16,916
Speaker 2: in that even without my guitar, and I think I

595
00:29:17,356 --> 00:29:20,356
Speaker 2: bring a sort of belief in the mission because I

596
00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:21,796
Speaker 2: think that's very useful in a band.

597
00:29:22,036 --> 00:29:25,036
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm all in. I think people realize that now.

598
00:29:25,036 --> 00:29:27,036
Speaker 2: It used to frustrate me when I was younger, when

599
00:29:27,036 --> 00:29:30,356
Speaker 2: the precious report it, because you know, when I was young,

600
00:29:30,396 --> 00:29:32,356
Speaker 2: guys to be a little oh, it looks like I'm

601
00:29:32,396 --> 00:29:32,916
Speaker 2: just bailing.

602
00:29:32,996 --> 00:29:34,796
Speaker 3: I'm leaving this band and I'm leaving that band.

603
00:29:34,796 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 2: But after all these years, now I think people realize

604
00:29:37,516 --> 00:29:39,596
Speaker 2: that it's anyone who's interested.

605
00:29:40,316 --> 00:29:41,876
Speaker 3: It's probably the reverse, you.

606
00:29:41,836 --> 00:29:44,556
Speaker 2: Know, like when I if I join a band, I'm

607
00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:48,236
Speaker 2: really in and my family and my family moved to Portland.

608
00:29:48,516 --> 00:29:51,396
Speaker 2: Or when I was in the cribs, you know, I

609
00:29:51,436 --> 00:29:54,196
Speaker 2: got in the van and I played all the shows,

610
00:29:54,236 --> 00:29:57,036
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't I don't expect any other

611
00:29:57,156 --> 00:30:00,636
Speaker 2: kind of separate treatment. I really get get in because

612
00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:03,156
Speaker 2: it's the way I was when I was fifteen in bands.

613
00:30:03,156 --> 00:30:05,436
Speaker 3: It's no different that it's so cool.

614
00:30:06,116 --> 00:30:09,076
Speaker 1: Was it because of that level of chemistry that you realize, well,

615
00:30:09,156 --> 00:30:11,396
Speaker 1: I'm part of the band or was it already sort

616
00:30:11,436 --> 00:30:13,356
Speaker 1: of decided you're sort of in for the ride at

617
00:30:13,356 --> 00:30:13,796
Speaker 1: this point?

618
00:30:13,956 --> 00:30:15,676
Speaker 2: Now? Do you know what the very first night we

619
00:30:15,756 --> 00:30:18,796
Speaker 2: got together, Isaac and I wrote that the song that

620
00:30:18,996 --> 00:30:22,516
Speaker 2: with that single dashboard became the single. And then I

621
00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:25,156
Speaker 2: woke up really jet like that about whatever four o'clock

622
00:30:25,156 --> 00:30:27,396
Speaker 2: in the morning because I'd only got in from England

623
00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:29,396
Speaker 2: the day before, and I woke up on a can

624
00:30:29,476 --> 00:30:31,276
Speaker 2: of was like, where am I, Oh, I'm in a

625
00:30:31,276 --> 00:30:34,236
Speaker 2: hotel in Portland. Did we just write like a really cool,

626
00:30:34,436 --> 00:30:37,756
Speaker 2: cool song with this guy? In fact, we wrote two

627
00:30:37,836 --> 00:30:40,436
Speaker 2: songs that night. We wrote another one called We've Got

628
00:30:40,476 --> 00:30:44,156
Speaker 2: everything that was me and him, and then frankly, because

629
00:30:44,196 --> 00:30:47,316
Speaker 2: Maddi's mouth had paid for this English guitar player to

630
00:30:47,396 --> 00:30:49,956
Speaker 2: come over for ten days, they had to kind of

631
00:30:49,956 --> 00:30:53,076
Speaker 2: get to rehearsal for noon because you know, they've paid

632
00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:55,156
Speaker 2: for my flight. And it's kind of like a little

633
00:30:55,196 --> 00:30:57,796
Speaker 2: bit like, all right, everybody, you know, you know the

634
00:30:57,876 --> 00:31:00,876
Speaker 2: ringers here or whatever. We better get we better get here, right.

635
00:31:01,116 --> 00:31:03,516
Speaker 2: But quite cleverly Isaac had done it, so a couple

636
00:31:03,556 --> 00:31:06,556
Speaker 2: of members would join. Each day we'd come, me and

637
00:31:06,556 --> 00:31:09,676
Speaker 2: them would feel each other out. So as the days

638
00:31:09,716 --> 00:31:13,516
Speaker 2: went on, with each couple of people that arrived, and

639
00:31:13,556 --> 00:31:15,476
Speaker 2: we would jam and get a new song, and jam

640
00:31:15,476 --> 00:31:19,236
Speaker 2: and get a new song. Very quickly, I was just like,

641
00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:23,956
Speaker 2: I like these guys, they like me. There's such a

642
00:31:23,996 --> 00:31:29,276
Speaker 2: positive feeling. Everyone's so enthusiastic. Something's really happening here. And

643
00:31:29,316 --> 00:31:31,716
Speaker 2: I formed a manager and I said, listen, I'm suppose

644
00:31:31,756 --> 00:31:33,876
Speaker 2: to be flying back on Wednesday or whatever. I'm going

645
00:31:33,956 --> 00:31:35,636
Speaker 2: to stay. I'm going to stay for a few weeks.

646
00:31:35,916 --> 00:31:39,036
Speaker 2: And I fell in love with Portland the city. This

647
00:31:39,156 --> 00:31:41,996
Speaker 2: was two thousand and five. So to answer your question,

648
00:31:43,396 --> 00:31:45,476
Speaker 2: by the time you get that sort of brotherhood going

649
00:31:45,516 --> 00:31:47,756
Speaker 2: in a band and you're all really excited, and also

650
00:31:47,796 --> 00:31:51,676
Speaker 2: you're playing together these long hours, you know, six seven hours,

651
00:31:51,716 --> 00:31:53,116
Speaker 2: and you've got a song and you want to fix

652
00:31:53,156 --> 00:31:53,716
Speaker 2: it the next.

653
00:31:53,636 --> 00:31:56,956
Speaker 3: Day, and you're working on this thing. It was that simple.

654
00:31:57,276 --> 00:31:59,236
Speaker 3: It just would have been really weird to bail.

655
00:32:00,276 --> 00:32:02,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, ten days an out after building that.

656
00:32:02,996 --> 00:32:05,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then that turned into two weeks and then

657
00:32:05,316 --> 00:32:08,116
Speaker 2: three weeks, and then we're all talking excitedly about, Oh man,

658
00:32:08,156 --> 00:32:09,556
Speaker 2: are you're going to would it be gratefully?

659
00:32:09,516 --> 00:32:10,796
Speaker 3: You did some gigs and.

660
00:32:10,676 --> 00:32:13,356
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, And the key thing is I

661
00:32:13,436 --> 00:32:15,876
Speaker 2: really start to I've done this with a few projects.

662
00:32:16,276 --> 00:32:19,516
Speaker 2: I start to really care about the songs we're making.

663
00:32:19,956 --> 00:32:22,036
Speaker 2: I really really care about them, even if.

664
00:32:21,956 --> 00:32:24,036
Speaker 3: I haven't written, like in the the.

665
00:32:24,956 --> 00:32:27,676
Speaker 2: You know, my relationship with Matt Johnson, I really believed

666
00:32:27,676 --> 00:32:30,076
Speaker 2: in what he was doing and some songs, you know,

667
00:32:30,116 --> 00:32:32,876
Speaker 2: we would make these backing tracks and he'd be like,

668
00:32:33,876 --> 00:32:36,076
Speaker 2: you know, soul searching about the lyrics and this isn't

669
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:38,116
Speaker 2: right and that isn't right. And I felt like I

670
00:32:38,156 --> 00:32:40,156
Speaker 2: was going through all of that with him, you know.

671
00:32:40,196 --> 00:32:44,196
Speaker 2: And we did this album Dusking in ninety two. But

672
00:32:44,236 --> 00:32:47,036
Speaker 2: that's what I mean about being all in. You know,

673
00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:50,356
Speaker 2: people don't really know that about about me. You know,

674
00:32:50,996 --> 00:32:53,676
Speaker 2: I'm twenty four to seven. If I'm in a band, how.

675
00:32:53,676 --> 00:32:56,396
Speaker 1: Does that translate to when you're when you're leading your

676
00:32:56,396 --> 00:32:56,836
Speaker 1: own group.

677
00:32:57,556 --> 00:33:01,396
Speaker 2: It's very different with my own band because it's a

678
00:33:01,436 --> 00:33:04,996
Speaker 2: different scenario. With my band, they're there, we've had we've

679
00:33:04,996 --> 00:33:07,116
Speaker 2: been together now ten years, the same lineup.

680
00:33:07,676 --> 00:33:08,556
Speaker 3: We all live in.

681
00:33:08,436 --> 00:33:12,756
Speaker 2: The same postcode pretty much, but we all hey, look,

682
00:33:12,796 --> 00:33:14,716
Speaker 2: we all live within ten miles of each other, which

683
00:33:14,756 --> 00:33:17,316
Speaker 2: is kind of unusual for guys of our age. I've

684
00:33:17,356 --> 00:33:19,596
Speaker 2: been in bands where people live in different cities, in

685
00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:20,436
Speaker 2: different countries.

686
00:33:21,316 --> 00:33:22,716
Speaker 3: That was a very deliberate thing.

687
00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:25,596
Speaker 2: When I came back from Portland, I moved to Manchester,

688
00:33:25,756 --> 00:33:28,556
Speaker 2: not because it's my hometown. I moved here because it's

689
00:33:28,596 --> 00:33:31,196
Speaker 2: a really great place to run a group, and I

690
00:33:31,236 --> 00:33:33,836
Speaker 2: knew these musicians and I wanted for us to all

691
00:33:34,236 --> 00:33:36,356
Speaker 2: I wanted to be at a call a rehearsal for

692
00:33:36,436 --> 00:33:38,156
Speaker 2: tomorrow night and we all be able to get there.

693
00:33:38,276 --> 00:33:40,716
Speaker 3: Someone doesn't have to get on a train or a plane, right.

694
00:33:40,796 --> 00:33:44,196
Speaker 2: So, But why it's different in my band is I

695
00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:47,156
Speaker 2: write songs and then I bring them to the band

696
00:33:47,556 --> 00:33:51,476
Speaker 2: and they learn them and we learn them up and

697
00:33:52,356 --> 00:33:53,876
Speaker 2: I kind of run it and that's the way they

698
00:33:54,036 --> 00:33:54,556
Speaker 2: like it, you know.

699
00:33:54,596 --> 00:33:56,196
Speaker 3: I mean, we're really very much a group.

700
00:33:56,476 --> 00:34:02,036
Speaker 2: But all the torturous I guess, the torturous process where

701
00:34:02,036 --> 00:34:04,996
Speaker 2: the singer, which is me in this case, is soul

702
00:34:05,116 --> 00:34:08,236
Speaker 2: searching about lyrics and all that. My guys just lead

703
00:34:08,316 --> 00:34:10,116
Speaker 2: me to it and they say, up, give me a

704
00:34:10,116 --> 00:34:11,236
Speaker 2: call when you've got the thing done.

705
00:34:11,276 --> 00:34:13,396
Speaker 3: Man, the bastards.

706
00:34:14,036 --> 00:34:18,636
Speaker 2: So in a way, I suppose in my experience, my

707
00:34:18,796 --> 00:34:23,556
Speaker 2: band when we first got together, the closest that i'd seen.

708
00:34:23,636 --> 00:34:25,876
Speaker 2: It's a bit It's like I have a sort of

709
00:34:25,916 --> 00:34:29,956
Speaker 2: Beck's band. We kind of when we started, we kind

710
00:34:29,956 --> 00:34:32,636
Speaker 2: of went, that's kind of the yardstick for the kind

711
00:34:32,636 --> 00:34:36,036
Speaker 2: of music, like a British version of that. Really oh cool,

712
00:34:36,396 --> 00:34:38,156
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like when you go and

713
00:34:38,156 --> 00:34:41,116
Speaker 2: see Beck. It was like really tight and the tempos

714
00:34:41,116 --> 00:34:44,196
Speaker 2: were usually the tempos were up, and the drummers drums

715
00:34:44,196 --> 00:34:47,756
Speaker 2: were really snappy, and he was a leader. But they

716
00:34:47,756 --> 00:34:50,516
Speaker 2: were also a band, you know, but you knew the

717
00:34:50,556 --> 00:34:53,036
Speaker 2: guy was going to have a good band. I kind

718
00:34:53,036 --> 00:34:55,196
Speaker 2: of decided with my band that that's the way I

719
00:34:55,196 --> 00:34:57,076
Speaker 2: wanted us to be really a bit like Beck's band.

720
00:34:57,876 --> 00:35:00,276
Speaker 1: Well, what makes Manchester a great place to sort of

721
00:35:00,316 --> 00:35:01,116
Speaker 1: run a band out of?

722
00:35:01,916 --> 00:35:05,716
Speaker 2: Well, what Seattle was to La in the nineties, Manchester

723
00:35:05,916 --> 00:35:07,996
Speaker 2: is that to London, do you know what I mean?

724
00:35:08,076 --> 00:35:11,876
Speaker 2: So where being a musician's a little easier in Manchester's

725
00:35:11,916 --> 00:35:15,916
Speaker 2: now like well books like Seattle is very there's a

726
00:35:15,956 --> 00:35:17,476
Speaker 2: lot of money in it.

727
00:35:17,476 --> 00:35:21,636
Speaker 3: It's a second city, So so London.

728
00:35:22,316 --> 00:35:24,836
Speaker 2: If you're a musician, okay, and you've got to get rehearsal,

729
00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:27,036
Speaker 2: it takes you twice a length of time to get

730
00:35:27,076 --> 00:35:29,756
Speaker 2: to rehearsal space as it does in Manchester. People are

731
00:35:29,956 --> 00:35:32,116
Speaker 2: usually am I love London and there all the time,

732
00:35:32,476 --> 00:35:34,916
Speaker 2: but musicians have to live quite a long way out

733
00:35:34,996 --> 00:35:37,716
Speaker 2: of town because it's really expensive to have apartments there

734
00:35:37,756 --> 00:35:40,356
Speaker 2: and all of this sort of stuff. Manchester is a

735
00:35:40,396 --> 00:35:43,636
Speaker 2: little bit more, is a little more like Seattle. And

736
00:35:43,836 --> 00:35:46,116
Speaker 2: you know, like Seattle, it had a big movement. It

737
00:35:46,276 --> 00:35:49,996
Speaker 2: rains a lot like Seattle, so it's an indoor culture.

738
00:35:50,236 --> 00:35:51,796
Speaker 2: There's a whole load of things, you know, just in

739
00:35:53,036 --> 00:35:54,996
Speaker 2: historically make Manchester really great to.

740
00:35:54,996 --> 00:35:58,716
Speaker 3: Run to run Well, there's a history here as well.

741
00:35:58,796 --> 00:36:02,076
Speaker 2: So for me in my generation, I grew up knowing like, well,

742
00:36:02,116 --> 00:36:05,516
Speaker 2: the Buzzcocks did it, okay, I mean yeah, Buzcocks. I

743
00:36:05,556 --> 00:36:08,956
Speaker 2: mean they were just like gods to my generation, Buzzcocks,

744
00:36:09,356 --> 00:36:11,836
Speaker 2: that you didn't have to live in the capital, that

745
00:36:11,956 --> 00:36:15,556
Speaker 2: you could live in the provinces and make great, really.

746
00:36:15,276 --> 00:36:18,316
Speaker 3: Cool music, because before that it was just it.

747
00:36:18,316 --> 00:36:20,436
Speaker 2: Was all about London, London, London. All these bands it

748
00:36:20,516 --> 00:36:23,716
Speaker 2: was either London and La really London La. So you've

749
00:36:23,716 --> 00:36:27,156
Speaker 2: got a heritage. And then so because Buscox did it,

750
00:36:27,396 --> 00:36:29,996
Speaker 2: Smith raised to do it, and the Fall, and then

751
00:36:30,036 --> 00:36:32,556
Speaker 2: because a New Order and joy Division and because the

752
00:36:32,596 --> 00:36:35,156
Speaker 2: Smiths and Joy Vision and New Order did it, then

753
00:36:35,756 --> 00:36:37,956
Speaker 2: Happy Mondays and Stone Roses knew they could do it.

754
00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:40,116
Speaker 2: And then because they could saw that, you know, they

755
00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:42,476
Speaker 2: did it, then Oasis saw that they could do it,

756
00:36:42,516 --> 00:36:43,036
Speaker 2: and so on.

757
00:36:43,476 --> 00:36:47,116
Speaker 3: Youngsters know that you can be a Manchester band, you know.

758
00:36:47,276 --> 00:36:49,396
Speaker 2: And so that goes back, that goes right back to

759
00:36:49,436 --> 00:36:51,236
Speaker 2: the seventies now with Buzzcocks.

760
00:36:51,316 --> 00:36:52,356
Speaker 3: So having that.

761
00:36:52,276 --> 00:36:54,956
Speaker 2: In the air and knowing that it's a musical town

762
00:36:55,796 --> 00:36:57,516
Speaker 2: is a good place to sort of grow up around

763
00:36:57,516 --> 00:37:01,196
Speaker 2: when you're a fledging musician. But really it goes way

764
00:37:01,196 --> 00:37:04,636
Speaker 2: back historically to like the eighteen sixties eighteen seventies when

765
00:37:05,076 --> 00:37:08,436
Speaker 2: Manchester was literally the industrial capital of the world and

766
00:37:08,476 --> 00:37:11,996
Speaker 2: the industrial evolution, and all the immigrants came so from

767
00:37:12,556 --> 00:37:15,676
Speaker 2: really everywhere, Eastern Europe and the Caribbean and West Indies

768
00:37:15,676 --> 00:37:18,236
Speaker 2: and Ireland in my case, and all of this business.

769
00:37:18,636 --> 00:37:21,516
Speaker 2: So there's it's a real melting pot Manchester of working

770
00:37:21,556 --> 00:37:25,556
Speaker 2: class immigrants and they all brought their own cultures and

771
00:37:25,596 --> 00:37:28,796
Speaker 2: their own need for entertainment. So a lot of comedians,

772
00:37:28,876 --> 00:37:30,996
Speaker 2: Jewish comedians came out here. A lot of people came

773
00:37:31,036 --> 00:37:34,636
Speaker 2: from Eastern Europe. In my case, you know, a lot

774
00:37:34,636 --> 00:37:37,316
Speaker 2: of my family they moved over in the early sixties

775
00:37:37,316 --> 00:37:40,476
Speaker 2: and they came over to work in construction and building the.

776
00:37:40,476 --> 00:37:41,556
Speaker 3: Roads and all of this stuff.

777
00:37:41,596 --> 00:37:45,196
Speaker 2: The Irish and my parents went to all the Irish

778
00:37:45,236 --> 00:37:46,996
Speaker 2: clubs and they would see all the show bands, and

779
00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:51,196
Speaker 2: me and my sister would go sometimes to these places

780
00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:53,076
Speaker 2: in the afternoon where my dad was a booker for

781
00:37:53,116 --> 00:37:55,156
Speaker 2: these bands, and so we grew up around.

782
00:37:55,276 --> 00:37:56,996
Speaker 1: Your dad booked bands.

783
00:37:57,196 --> 00:37:57,956
Speaker 3: Yeah he did, you.

784
00:38:00,076 --> 00:38:04,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was in the seventies. Me and my

785
00:38:04,076 --> 00:38:07,236
Speaker 2: sister would be there, we'd be giving like soda and

786
00:38:08,196 --> 00:38:10,956
Speaker 2: just loads of loads of sugar, and I'd sit there

787
00:38:10,996 --> 00:38:13,956
Speaker 2: and I'd watch these cabaret singers and they'd be their

788
00:38:14,036 --> 00:38:17,076
Speaker 2: vocal their microphones would be going into a space echo

789
00:38:17,196 --> 00:38:21,236
Speaker 2: or a tape echo Watkins Copycat, and there'd be an

790
00:38:21,356 --> 00:38:23,956
Speaker 2: organ player and a drummer and if I was looking

791
00:38:23,956 --> 00:38:26,436
Speaker 2: at the big guitar player, and they'd be playing all

792
00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:29,596
Speaker 2: these kind of seventy songs, and I thought that was amazing.

793
00:38:30,116 --> 00:38:32,236
Speaker 2: I just watched these being my sister, watched these bands

794
00:38:32,316 --> 00:38:35,796
Speaker 2: be like, holy shit, this is great. And sometimes I'd go, no,

795
00:38:35,916 --> 00:38:37,796
Speaker 2: they're not too good, Dad, Now they're not too good.

796
00:38:37,836 --> 00:38:41,476
Speaker 2: But just seeing the amplifiers and the electric guitars and

797
00:38:41,516 --> 00:38:43,436
Speaker 2: all that, I would have been like nine or ten.

798
00:38:43,636 --> 00:38:46,156
Speaker 3: I thought that was magic. Yeah. Wow.

799
00:38:46,476 --> 00:38:49,836
Speaker 1: So your dad did construction and then somehow got into

800
00:38:49,876 --> 00:38:50,516
Speaker 1: booking beat.

801
00:38:50,756 --> 00:38:52,956
Speaker 2: What was that, Well, that was to do with the

802
00:38:52,956 --> 00:38:55,476
Speaker 2: Catholic That was to do with the Catholic Church because

803
00:38:55,516 --> 00:38:58,636
Speaker 2: he was numb. So he's a working class Irish guys

804
00:38:58,636 --> 00:39:01,316
Speaker 2: are saying, be laid pipes, he dug holes in the

805
00:39:01,396 --> 00:39:04,276
Speaker 2: road and dad, they're very proud of it. But to

806
00:39:04,316 --> 00:39:07,996
Speaker 2: do with the Catholic Church, big Irish thing. They would

807
00:39:07,996 --> 00:39:11,636
Speaker 2: have bands on on a Friday and a Saturday night,

808
00:39:12,236 --> 00:39:15,156
Speaker 2: and all these bands would go an audition in these

809
00:39:15,276 --> 00:39:18,716
Speaker 2: bars or these pubs, usually on a Sunday afternoon.

810
00:39:19,116 --> 00:39:21,916
Speaker 3: And all of these used to call themselves agents.

811
00:39:22,076 --> 00:39:25,036
Speaker 2: But all these people who could say, hey, listen, come

812
00:39:25,076 --> 00:39:28,876
Speaker 2: and play at my social club for fifty pounds, So

813
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:31,916
Speaker 2: they would go an audition for people like my dad, you.

814
00:39:31,836 --> 00:39:33,516
Speaker 1: Know, so amazing.

815
00:39:34,036 --> 00:39:36,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean they weren't all that great, but

816
00:39:36,236 --> 00:39:37,236
Speaker 2: to me it was magic.

817
00:39:38,116 --> 00:39:40,396
Speaker 1: There must have been an education onto itself, you know,

818
00:39:40,516 --> 00:39:43,036
Speaker 1: in terms of how to be and on stage, and

819
00:39:43,276 --> 00:39:43,556
Speaker 1: you know.

820
00:39:43,516 --> 00:39:46,916
Speaker 3: One hundred per one hundred percent what it was was.

821
00:39:47,036 --> 00:39:49,356
Speaker 2: The big thing for me was that I when I

822
00:39:49,396 --> 00:39:52,836
Speaker 2: watched these bands set up their equipment when I was

823
00:39:52,876 --> 00:39:56,156
Speaker 2: about seven or eight at these parties. So this was

824
00:39:56,156 --> 00:39:58,156
Speaker 2: a little early because we used to have these bands

825
00:39:58,156 --> 00:40:01,636
Speaker 2: play at christena It'd been out reinforce the cultural stereotype.

826
00:40:01,636 --> 00:40:03,756
Speaker 2: But there was a lot of Christenings and a lot

827
00:40:03,796 --> 00:40:07,996
Speaker 2: of weddings, and.

828
00:40:06,756 --> 00:40:08,836
Speaker 3: My aunties and uncles I used to have these bands

829
00:40:08,836 --> 00:40:09,436
Speaker 3: come play.

830
00:40:09,796 --> 00:40:12,956
Speaker 2: But when I saw these adults setting up the equipment,

831
00:40:13,356 --> 00:40:15,156
Speaker 2: that was when it occurred to me that, oh, this

832
00:40:15,196 --> 00:40:20,236
Speaker 2: is a job. Ah, he's nearly always guys, these guys,

833
00:40:20,276 --> 00:40:22,236
Speaker 2: and I see the same people, the same guys, and

834
00:40:22,436 --> 00:40:25,036
Speaker 2: they'd be bringing their amplifiers and someone setting the drum kit.

835
00:40:25,076 --> 00:40:28,356
Speaker 2: I'd be like, Oh, as an adult, you can do that.

836
00:40:28,396 --> 00:40:30,276
Speaker 2: It's not just people on the television. Because on the

837
00:40:30,276 --> 00:40:35,396
Speaker 2: television I just see these bands magically appear and looking great,

838
00:40:35,716 --> 00:40:37,076
Speaker 2: you know, with the velvet.

839
00:40:36,716 --> 00:40:37,756
Speaker 3: Suits on and all of this.

840
00:40:38,076 --> 00:40:40,596
Speaker 2: And I'd actually see these men setting up their equipment

841
00:40:40,636 --> 00:40:44,716
Speaker 2: and pulling these amplifiers and feeding back and testing.

842
00:40:44,596 --> 00:40:48,596
Speaker 3: And I was like, where do I sign up for that? Wow,

843
00:40:48,676 --> 00:40:49,876
Speaker 3: that looks like a great job.

844
00:40:50,676 --> 00:40:54,516
Speaker 1: Yeah, and your parents must have been thrilled as much

845
00:40:54,556 --> 00:40:56,316
Speaker 1: as in the music as they are that you started

846
00:40:56,356 --> 00:40:59,276
Speaker 1: thinking that way, right, Yeah, you know, I.

847
00:40:59,396 --> 00:41:01,436
Speaker 3: Think a lot of people can probably relate to this.

848
00:41:01,516 --> 00:41:05,556
Speaker 2: They were absolutely thrilled until at fifteen I decided or

849
00:41:05,596 --> 00:41:09,276
Speaker 2: fourteen decided that I was going to go through it

850
00:41:09,556 --> 00:41:14,356
Speaker 2: and not go to school. So now that it's worked

851
00:41:14,356 --> 00:41:16,236
Speaker 2: out and I've actually, you know, it's my day job,

852
00:41:16,556 --> 00:41:19,396
Speaker 2: they're really really proud. Much more than the fact that

853
00:41:19,436 --> 00:41:21,956
Speaker 2: I'm famous. They're just really proud that I'm a full

854
00:41:21,996 --> 00:41:26,796
Speaker 2: time guitar player. Seriously, and if I ever make records

855
00:41:26,796 --> 00:41:28,996
Speaker 2: where there's not enough guitar on it. I kind of

856
00:41:29,036 --> 00:41:35,596
Speaker 2: get to hear about it and yeah, but you know,

857
00:41:35,716 --> 00:41:38,676
Speaker 2: mount craft work. No, it's okay, I'm playing I'm playing

858
00:41:38,756 --> 00:41:41,236
Speaker 2: synth on this one. So they proud of that. But

859
00:41:42,076 --> 00:41:43,596
Speaker 2: you know, like a lot of teenagers, you know, I

860
00:41:43,636 --> 00:41:46,316
Speaker 2: went through kind of a pretty rebellious and rough patch.

861
00:41:46,876 --> 00:41:49,116
Speaker 2: We went through a kind of a bit of a

862
00:41:49,556 --> 00:41:53,556
Speaker 2: you know, typical sort of rebellious kind of They were

863
00:41:53,556 --> 00:41:56,956
Speaker 2: worried that when I stopped going to school and was

864
00:41:57,076 --> 00:42:00,876
Speaker 2: very obviously you know, taking drugs and spending all my

865
00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:04,716
Speaker 2: time with these reprobates. But it was all really wrapped

866
00:42:04,756 --> 00:42:07,996
Speaker 2: up with the music as well. It wasn't just hedonistic stuff.

867
00:42:07,996 --> 00:42:09,636
Speaker 3: I joined the band. Thing was I joined the band

868
00:42:09,636 --> 00:42:12,476
Speaker 3: when I was fifteen, who have adults who were.

869
00:42:12,436 --> 00:42:17,836
Speaker 2: Very dubious, and my parents kind of said, well, it's

870
00:42:17,836 --> 00:42:19,476
Speaker 2: either that or you have to get out.

871
00:42:19,756 --> 00:42:22,996
Speaker 3: So I just left harm you know, but just got it.

872
00:42:24,396 --> 00:42:26,876
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was a bit contentious, and you know,

873
00:42:26,996 --> 00:42:29,716
Speaker 2: so I was a little wild at fifteen sixteen.

874
00:42:29,796 --> 00:42:31,556
Speaker 1: But what was your sister thinking.

875
00:42:32,356 --> 00:42:35,756
Speaker 2: My sister was the mediator. She was the great mediator.

876
00:42:35,876 --> 00:42:37,916
Speaker 2: She's only eleven months younger than me. We were very

877
00:42:37,956 --> 00:42:40,716
Speaker 2: tight and still are, you know. But it's a funny

878
00:42:40,716 --> 00:42:42,676
Speaker 2: one because yeah, they were proud of me being a musician.

879
00:42:42,676 --> 00:42:44,596
Speaker 2: But I think when I actually was like, listen, I'm

880
00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:46,036
Speaker 2: going to go for it, and I'm going to go

881
00:42:46,116 --> 00:42:48,676
Speaker 2: to London and I'm gonna even though you know, I

882
00:42:48,716 --> 00:42:51,036
Speaker 2: had no money whatsoever, and I'm going to join this

883
00:42:51,116 --> 00:42:55,156
Speaker 2: band and these adults. So they were very obviously kind

884
00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:58,636
Speaker 2: of dangerous characters. You know, they're pretty druggy. They sounded

885
00:42:58,676 --> 00:43:03,196
Speaker 2: like a cross between Hawkwind and I guess the Stooges.

886
00:43:03,876 --> 00:43:06,276
Speaker 2: Of course, sister Ray. I think their tracks up on YouTube.

887
00:43:06,276 --> 00:43:08,756
Speaker 2: It's got a song called Suicide. So because he'd made

888
00:43:08,756 --> 00:43:11,756
Speaker 2: a record, they sought me out at fifteen, right, and

889
00:43:11,836 --> 00:43:13,476
Speaker 2: they were like coming be in the band, and I'm

890
00:43:13,476 --> 00:43:15,716
Speaker 2: pretty sure I said, listen, you are aware that I'm

891
00:43:16,116 --> 00:43:19,436
Speaker 2: I am fifteen or fourteen even I think I didn't

892
00:43:19,436 --> 00:43:21,316
Speaker 2: want it to be a freak show, and they were like, hey, listen, now,

893
00:43:21,356 --> 00:43:24,556
Speaker 2: come on, come on, it'll be cool. So I used

894
00:43:24,556 --> 00:43:26,396
Speaker 2: to go to their rehearsal a couple of times a

895
00:43:26,436 --> 00:43:29,196
Speaker 2: week and it was the Red Light area, really kind

896
00:43:29,236 --> 00:43:31,156
Speaker 2: of rough area in Manchester. A couple of nights a

897
00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:36,316
Speaker 2: week and to subsidize that, I used to sell clothes

898
00:43:36,476 --> 00:43:39,996
Speaker 2: my pals and working clothes shops. But anyway I left,

899
00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:41,676
Speaker 2: I had to leave home. I had to leave home

900
00:43:41,796 --> 00:43:43,636
Speaker 2: to do that because my parents didn't approve. And that

901
00:43:43,716 --> 00:43:45,596
Speaker 2: was a little bit of a kind of a rough

902
00:43:45,876 --> 00:43:47,276
Speaker 2: bit of a look back now, and it was a

903
00:43:47,276 --> 00:43:48,476
Speaker 2: bit of a wild time for me.

904
00:43:48,556 --> 00:43:54,556
Speaker 1: But London and seventy seven at fourteen fifteen, yeah, must

905
00:43:54,556 --> 00:43:55,876
Speaker 1: have been that must have been crazy.

906
00:43:56,556 --> 00:43:56,916
Speaker 3: Well, it was.

907
00:43:56,916 --> 00:43:58,796
Speaker 2: Amazing because I went to the I went to the

908
00:43:58,836 --> 00:44:02,036
Speaker 2: Marquee when I was fifteen to see a bank called

909
00:44:02,036 --> 00:44:05,956
Speaker 2: Pearl Harbor and the explosions and they had the Stray Cats.

910
00:44:06,116 --> 00:44:09,036
Speaker 3: Who else was in London at the time. The class

911
00:44:09,156 --> 00:44:10,356
Speaker 3: were still around.

912
00:44:11,236 --> 00:44:15,796
Speaker 2: This is seventy eight, seventy nine, and I was really

913
00:44:15,796 --> 00:44:17,116
Speaker 2: into this band called the only Ones.

914
00:44:17,156 --> 00:44:21,036
Speaker 3: You know, I sung Another Girl Another Planet. Yeah, So

915
00:44:21,556 --> 00:44:22,076
Speaker 3: I fell.

916
00:44:21,916 --> 00:44:23,796
Speaker 2: In love with this band called the only Ones and

917
00:44:23,956 --> 00:44:27,356
Speaker 2: I followed them around quite a bit and that involved,

918
00:44:27,396 --> 00:44:31,236
Speaker 2: you know, sleeping on train stations. Me and Andy Rogue,

919
00:44:31,516 --> 00:44:34,196
Speaker 2: who was my best part at the time. I enlisted

920
00:44:34,236 --> 00:44:36,876
Speaker 2: in the Smiths, so we Yeah. I used to hang

921
00:44:36,916 --> 00:44:39,196
Speaker 2: around close shops and that was all to me, that

922
00:44:39,316 --> 00:44:42,756
Speaker 2: was all part of the apprenticeship of being a musician

923
00:44:43,036 --> 00:44:45,276
Speaker 2: because I heard loads of records. As I say, I

924
00:44:45,316 --> 00:44:49,196
Speaker 2: saw Brian Setzer when I was I think fourteen, I

925
00:44:49,236 --> 00:44:52,636
Speaker 2: saw Patty Smith when I was fourteen, I saw the Cramps,

926
00:44:53,236 --> 00:44:56,516
Speaker 2: And to me, all of this stuff has made me

927
00:44:56,596 --> 00:44:59,476
Speaker 2: what I am really seeing all those bands when I

928
00:44:59,516 --> 00:45:00,116
Speaker 2: was really young.

929
00:45:00,716 --> 00:45:02,716
Speaker 1: What'd you think of Brian Setzer at the time.

930
00:45:02,756 --> 00:45:04,276
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it. He was amazing.

931
00:45:04,636 --> 00:45:06,316
Speaker 1: And what were the Straight Cats doing over there?

932
00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:10,196
Speaker 2: They had a hit, They had a I think they were.

933
00:45:10,556 --> 00:45:12,836
Speaker 2: England was where they took off, and me and my

934
00:45:12,876 --> 00:45:15,916
Speaker 2: pals were like, listen, there's this crazy guitar player. It's

935
00:45:16,036 --> 00:45:16,836
Speaker 2: rockabilly band.

936
00:45:17,556 --> 00:45:18,076
Speaker 3: I saw them.

937
00:45:18,116 --> 00:45:19,956
Speaker 2: I think there was you know, maybe about thirty people

938
00:45:19,996 --> 00:45:22,276
Speaker 2: in the audience, and this whole lot held like eight

939
00:45:22,396 --> 00:45:24,916
Speaker 2: hundred people. So all of that stuff, you know, I

940
00:45:24,956 --> 00:45:27,676
Speaker 2: saw Peru Boo, and I saw a whole load of

941
00:45:27,676 --> 00:45:29,476
Speaker 2: bands I didn't care for because we used to sneak

942
00:45:29,516 --> 00:45:31,876
Speaker 2: into all the venues. So I look back on all

943
00:45:31,916 --> 00:45:34,396
Speaker 2: of that and it can sound romantic, and I can

944
00:45:34,476 --> 00:45:36,876
Speaker 2: make it sound romantic, and that's because it actually was.

945
00:45:37,876 --> 00:45:40,156
Speaker 2: I had no problem with walking back from a venue

946
00:45:40,556 --> 00:45:42,436
Speaker 2: from god to see some band, whether I liked him

947
00:45:42,516 --> 00:45:45,996
Speaker 2: or not, walking back for miles with no train fair,

948
00:45:46,556 --> 00:45:50,396
Speaker 2: and it all feeling like it was part of an apprenticeship, you.

949
00:45:50,356 --> 00:45:52,716
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, all part of the mission.

950
00:45:53,516 --> 00:45:54,036
Speaker 3: Yeah.

951
00:45:54,596 --> 00:45:55,996
Speaker 1: How did you meet Andy Rourk?

952
00:45:56,876 --> 00:45:59,836
Speaker 2: We went to the same school and he was you know,

953
00:45:59,916 --> 00:46:04,236
Speaker 2: it's like with guys in school. I saw a guy

954
00:46:04,436 --> 00:46:08,556
Speaker 2: another guy with long hair, long scruffy hair, and we

955
00:46:08,556 --> 00:46:10,196
Speaker 2: were either going to be friends or we were going

956
00:46:10,276 --> 00:46:15,316
Speaker 2: to fight. We were either like in competition or we

957
00:46:15,316 --> 00:46:18,836
Speaker 2: were comrades, and I think neither of us wanted to fight.

958
00:46:19,476 --> 00:46:19,676
Speaker 3: You know.

959
00:46:20,156 --> 00:46:22,676
Speaker 2: I I had a button, as you kept in America

960
00:46:22,676 --> 00:46:24,556
Speaker 2: at a badge that said that it was a Neil Young

961
00:46:24,596 --> 00:46:27,356
Speaker 2: Tonight's tonight. And he walked up to me and he

962
00:46:27,436 --> 00:46:31,036
Speaker 2: went to night to night and he did this really

963
00:46:31,036 --> 00:46:34,076
Speaker 2: amazing Neil Young impression, and I was just really impressed

964
00:46:34,116 --> 00:46:35,556
Speaker 2: that he knew what tonight tonight was.

965
00:46:36,196 --> 00:46:37,716
Speaker 3: You do that kind of thing when you were a kid,

966
00:46:37,716 --> 00:46:38,636
Speaker 3: It's so important.

967
00:46:39,276 --> 00:46:42,036
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, wow, I mean I wasn't going

968
00:46:42,076 --> 00:46:44,636
Speaker 2: to wear one that had harvest. It had to be obviously,

969
00:46:44,636 --> 00:46:48,196
Speaker 2: it had to be a really obscure badge and he

970
00:46:48,236 --> 00:46:50,156
Speaker 2: walked up to me and he just sang Tonight Tonight,

971
00:46:50,196 --> 00:46:52,716
Speaker 2: and I thought, Wow, this guy's cool, and then we

972
00:46:52,876 --> 00:46:54,116
Speaker 2: just became friends for life.

973
00:46:54,196 --> 00:46:55,596
Speaker 3: You know. It's beautiful. Yeah.

974
00:46:55,756 --> 00:46:57,836
Speaker 1: Did you see Neil on that Tonight's the Night tour

975
00:46:57,876 --> 00:46:58,396
Speaker 1: in London?

976
00:46:58,796 --> 00:47:00,756
Speaker 3: No? No, that was I was too young for that.

977
00:47:00,916 --> 00:47:03,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the big amazing story about that, about

978
00:47:03,676 --> 00:47:04,876
Speaker 2: Tonight's to Night that tour.

979
00:47:05,516 --> 00:47:07,716
Speaker 3: So he came over to England.

980
00:47:07,716 --> 00:47:09,636
Speaker 2: He played at the Scarlet, which I might be wrong

981
00:47:09,636 --> 00:47:12,036
Speaker 2: about it might be the Rainbow, but anyway, John Lyden

982
00:47:12,076 --> 00:47:14,996
Speaker 2: told me this. So he comes and the album hadn't

983
00:47:15,036 --> 00:47:18,756
Speaker 2: been released yet, and it's also a real down heavy album,

984
00:47:18,916 --> 00:47:19,356
Speaker 2: as you know.

985
00:47:19,556 --> 00:47:22,076
Speaker 3: Right. Anyway, he comes out and he's.

986
00:47:21,916 --> 00:47:25,036
Speaker 2: Got scraggly beard and he's drinking loads of tequila and

987
00:47:25,276 --> 00:47:27,316
Speaker 2: the stage and if you look on the inside of

988
00:47:27,316 --> 00:47:30,276
Speaker 2: that record, the stage set is crazy. It's got platform

989
00:47:30,356 --> 00:47:33,156
Speaker 2: boots hanging up and it's got like a it's got

990
00:47:33,196 --> 00:47:36,956
Speaker 2: hub caps all over the stage and a fake palm tree.

991
00:47:37,116 --> 00:47:40,356
Speaker 2: So he comes out and he starts playing this album

992
00:47:40,396 --> 00:47:43,476
Speaker 2: no one's ever heard. So he plays Tonight's Tonight from

993
00:47:43,556 --> 00:47:46,756
Speaker 2: start to finish. It's not even been released. Yet, and

994
00:47:46,756 --> 00:47:49,956
Speaker 2: it's this real down alcohol kind of thing, and he

995
00:47:49,996 --> 00:47:52,076
Speaker 2: plays it and the audience had like, what the hell

996
00:47:52,156 --> 00:47:54,596
Speaker 2: is this? And it's going down kind of badly. He

997
00:47:54,636 --> 00:47:57,156
Speaker 2: goes off and he gets called back on for the

998
00:47:57,236 --> 00:48:00,276
Speaker 2: encore and he says to the audience, now I'm going

999
00:48:00,316 --> 00:48:02,636
Speaker 2: to play one that you've heard before, and he plays

1000
00:48:02,676 --> 00:48:03,636
Speaker 2: Tonight's Tonight again.

1001
00:48:07,436 --> 00:48:08,116
Speaker 3: That happened.

1002
00:48:09,156 --> 00:48:11,196
Speaker 1: I just saw Neil six nights ago. So it was

1003
00:48:11,276 --> 00:48:12,916
Speaker 1: just like, this guy does not give a fuck.

1004
00:48:14,836 --> 00:48:17,476
Speaker 3: You know, I've never seen him play. You've never seen

1005
00:48:17,516 --> 00:48:21,596
Speaker 3: Neil never, man, it's crazy, just for some reason or other, just.

1006
00:48:21,516 --> 00:48:25,516
Speaker 1: Never it's worth it. It's just I've never seen someone so

1007
00:48:26,556 --> 00:48:31,676
Speaker 1: single minded, so single minded, you know those I don't want.

1008
00:48:31,556 --> 00:48:34,676
Speaker 2: To generalize too much, but I've met a few sixties musicians,

1009
00:48:35,116 --> 00:48:38,036
Speaker 2: which obviously you are very very fortunate. Just just a

1010
00:48:38,076 --> 00:48:41,476
Speaker 2: few a handful, and they, nearly to a man and woman,

1011
00:48:42,436 --> 00:48:43,836
Speaker 2: really care about playing.

1012
00:48:44,316 --> 00:48:44,756
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

1013
00:48:44,756 --> 00:48:47,036
Speaker 2: I might sound obvious, but the most important thing is

1014
00:48:47,156 --> 00:48:48,716
Speaker 2: if there's a guitar in the room, they will pick

1015
00:48:48,716 --> 00:48:52,196
Speaker 2: it up and they'll play Ronnie Woods like that, Donovan's

1016
00:48:52,276 --> 00:48:55,316
Speaker 2: like that, you know, Paul McCartney's really like that, you know,

1017
00:48:55,516 --> 00:48:58,636
Speaker 2: like those people, hats off to him, you know, I

1018
00:48:58,636 --> 00:49:02,636
Speaker 2: think they're really Ironically, it's kind of come around where

1019
00:49:02,676 --> 00:49:07,596
Speaker 2: some of those older generation musicians they go out and

1020
00:49:07,636 --> 00:49:09,596
Speaker 2: they appear to do it because they love you know,

1021
00:49:10,156 --> 00:49:11,476
Speaker 2: whether it's your thing or not.

1022
00:49:11,516 --> 00:49:13,636
Speaker 3: But you know, the Rod Stewarts and the Who's and.

1023
00:49:13,556 --> 00:49:18,236
Speaker 2: The Jaggers and Springsteen's and all of those sort of people.

1024
00:49:18,316 --> 00:49:21,476
Speaker 2: Johonny Mitchell even now coming back. You know, it's nice

1025
00:49:21,516 --> 00:49:24,516
Speaker 2: to see that those people who could be just sat

1026
00:49:24,596 --> 00:49:26,956
Speaker 2: on their boats or sat under the palm trees, or

1027
00:49:26,996 --> 00:49:29,876
Speaker 2: spending all the time with their architects and all of that,

1028
00:49:29,956 --> 00:49:32,156
Speaker 2: they appear to be out there doing it because maybe

1029
00:49:32,156 --> 00:49:34,516
Speaker 2: they know something that we don't, which is, you know,

1030
00:49:34,556 --> 00:49:38,916
Speaker 2: what they're really isn't anything better. Yeah, I've realized how

1031
00:49:39,076 --> 00:49:42,116
Speaker 2: super fortunate I am that I have people's ears. You know,

1032
00:49:42,716 --> 00:49:45,396
Speaker 2: there's an audience as people who are interested in what

1033
00:49:45,436 --> 00:49:48,436
Speaker 2: I'm up to at the moment. That's such a motivation,

1034
00:49:49,116 --> 00:49:52,116
Speaker 2: you know. But I do like to think that might

1035
00:49:52,156 --> 00:49:54,196
Speaker 2: be bullshit, But it's easy for me to say but

1036
00:49:54,316 --> 00:49:59,476
Speaker 2: that if I didn't, I'd still be playing every day, practicing, Yeah,

1037
00:49:59,956 --> 00:50:01,876
Speaker 2: you know, just for the love of it and just

1038
00:50:01,916 --> 00:50:03,636
Speaker 2: to try and get better, try and get better and

1039
00:50:03,676 --> 00:50:05,276
Speaker 2: better in some ways, you know, if that's all you've

1040
00:50:05,276 --> 00:50:06,196
Speaker 2: got to do or day.

1041
00:50:06,076 --> 00:50:09,756
Speaker 3: You get pretty good. But it's horses for courses, you know.

1042
00:50:09,836 --> 00:50:12,956
Speaker 3: I like what bands are. I like what indie rock

1043
00:50:13,596 --> 00:50:14,236
Speaker 3: for one.

1044
00:50:14,276 --> 00:50:16,076
Speaker 2: I don't put myself in a box too much, but

1045
00:50:16,156 --> 00:50:19,876
Speaker 2: I like the area of music that I work in.

1046
00:50:20,156 --> 00:50:23,756
Speaker 2: I still feel like that there are surprises in that

1047
00:50:23,916 --> 00:50:26,756
Speaker 2: area of music. Obviously, you and I we can talk

1048
00:50:26,756 --> 00:50:29,116
Speaker 2: about go off on these different tangents, talk about all

1049
00:50:29,196 --> 00:50:33,276
Speaker 2: kinds of different music, you know, But my mission I felt,

1050
00:50:33,236 --> 00:50:35,396
Speaker 2: I think it almost kind of got doubled in a

1051
00:50:35,436 --> 00:50:39,036
Speaker 2: way when I got the solo band together. I felt

1052
00:50:39,076 --> 00:50:41,436
Speaker 2: like I had this freedom to pull in all my

1053
00:50:41,516 --> 00:50:47,276
Speaker 2: influences that really goes back to people like Sparks. It's

1054
00:50:47,316 --> 00:50:50,036
Speaker 2: an interesting thing, I think, because what you love is

1055
00:50:50,076 --> 00:50:54,196
Speaker 2: such a subjective thing, obviously, and I think you get

1056
00:50:54,236 --> 00:50:56,076
Speaker 2: to a point in your life where you kind of

1057
00:50:56,396 --> 00:51:01,876
Speaker 2: go back to as an influence, you really do draw

1058
00:51:01,996 --> 00:51:04,356
Speaker 2: on those things that were your first loves.

1059
00:51:05,476 --> 00:51:06,756
Speaker 3: I love being in the modern world.

1060
00:51:07,116 --> 00:51:10,796
Speaker 2: I'm not particularly nostalgic person, but the area of music

1061
00:51:10,796 --> 00:51:14,716
Speaker 2: that I'm working in guitar music. I guess melodic that

1062
00:51:14,876 --> 00:51:17,156
Speaker 2: I suppose, you know, I don't really use terms like

1063
00:51:17,356 --> 00:51:19,556
Speaker 2: art rock, but you know, I'm fine with being called

1064
00:51:19,556 --> 00:51:21,836
Speaker 2: an indie musician. It all sounds like to me. It's

1065
00:51:21,876 --> 00:51:24,276
Speaker 2: all what used to be called rock music. Anyway, for

1066
00:51:24,316 --> 00:51:26,076
Speaker 2: the longest time. I used to call myself a pop

1067
00:51:26,156 --> 00:51:29,516
Speaker 2: musician for the longer time, and still until I started

1068
00:51:29,636 --> 00:51:33,076
Speaker 2: really recognizing that pop music is something very very different now,

1069
00:51:33,876 --> 00:51:36,236
Speaker 2: and I think that's post rave and to do with

1070
00:51:36,276 --> 00:51:38,436
Speaker 2: the technology and all this sort of stuff. I'm not

1071
00:51:38,476 --> 00:51:42,276
Speaker 2: gonna make past judgment on it. But when I started

1072
00:51:42,316 --> 00:51:47,196
Speaker 2: out at eleven or twelve and studying these records t Rex,

1073
00:51:47,596 --> 00:51:53,076
Speaker 2: the Sweet Sparks that luckily for me, had amazing guitar

1074
00:51:53,116 --> 00:51:56,636
Speaker 2: playing on it. Who knows what in England we call

1075
00:51:56,716 --> 00:51:59,436
Speaker 2: glam rock. In America, glamorock was a different thing. Was

1076
00:51:59,436 --> 00:52:01,916
Speaker 2: a little bit to do with sunset and the hairbands

1077
00:52:01,956 --> 00:52:02,436
Speaker 2: and all that.

1078
00:52:02,676 --> 00:52:03,876
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah.

1079
00:52:03,916 --> 00:52:06,756
Speaker 2: But in England glam rock was very definitely nineteen seventy two,

1080
00:52:06,836 --> 00:52:09,476
Speaker 2: seventy three, seventy four. Davy Bowie, you know, you the

1081
00:52:09,556 --> 00:52:11,636
Speaker 2: gene Genie and all that stuff, which you know, you know,

1082
00:52:12,596 --> 00:52:18,076
Speaker 2: those forty fives were amazing education for me. And as

1083
00:52:18,076 --> 00:52:21,476
Speaker 2: I say, it's probably subjective because that was when this

1084
00:52:21,556 --> 00:52:25,196
Speaker 2: stuff really really hit me. But I still think that

1085
00:52:25,276 --> 00:52:30,316
Speaker 2: what I do is working within that area where it's

1086
00:52:30,316 --> 00:52:33,196
Speaker 2: for me. The best thing is that it's concise. It

1087
00:52:33,236 --> 00:52:35,076
Speaker 2: doesn't have to go on for seven or eight minutes

1088
00:52:35,796 --> 00:52:39,436
Speaker 2: unless I'm making a point, and there's guitar hooks in it,

1089
00:52:40,036 --> 00:52:43,196
Speaker 2: and the tempos are up, and yeah, it makes you.

1090
00:52:43,316 --> 00:52:46,236
Speaker 2: It gets a blood racing a little bit with some

1091
00:52:46,356 --> 00:52:50,636
Speaker 2: quite sort of interesting, clever, if possible lyrics that fit.

1092
00:52:50,996 --> 00:52:54,316
Speaker 1: That's the part musician in you. That that's where that

1093
00:52:54,436 --> 00:52:57,996
Speaker 1: is located. And that's what probably i'd imagine, like probably

1094
00:52:57,996 --> 00:52:59,916
Speaker 1: how you fell in love with Chic in the seventies.

1095
00:53:00,076 --> 00:53:02,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well I think with Sheik it was to

1096
00:53:02,956 --> 00:53:06,156
Speaker 2: do with the harmonic progressions a lot. I always say this,

1097
00:53:06,236 --> 00:53:08,636
Speaker 2: but with so much is made with now Rogers, everyone

1098
00:53:08,676 --> 00:53:11,356
Speaker 2: obviously he thinks, even if they're not musicians, what they're

1099
00:53:11,396 --> 00:53:15,916
Speaker 2: thinking of is his right hand. Well, what I'm really

1100
00:53:15,916 --> 00:53:18,796
Speaker 2: fell in love with was his left hand. These beautiful

1101
00:53:19,156 --> 00:53:21,876
Speaker 2: McCoy tyner. The first time I ever met now Rogers,

1102
00:53:21,916 --> 00:53:24,436
Speaker 2: first question asked was do you really like McCoy tyner

1103
00:53:25,436 --> 00:53:31,636
Speaker 2: because the core progression's so beautiful, so pretty, so emotional,

1104
00:53:31,956 --> 00:53:34,836
Speaker 2: you know, I want your love and lost in music

1105
00:53:34,996 --> 00:53:38,756
Speaker 2: and oh man, So that's why I like that stuff particularly.

1106
00:53:38,796 --> 00:53:41,916
Speaker 2: It wasn't just a groove, it was beautiful harmonic changes.

1107
00:53:42,596 --> 00:53:44,236
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm a real melody freak.

1108
00:53:44,916 --> 00:53:49,316
Speaker 2: And I'll try and squeeze those hooks in too, excite

1109
00:53:49,396 --> 00:53:54,556
Speaker 2: in kind of punchy guitar music wherever I can, especially

1110
00:53:54,556 --> 00:53:55,476
Speaker 2: if it's my own stuff.

1111
00:53:56,636 --> 00:53:58,556
Speaker 1: We're going to take another quick break and then come

1112
00:53:58,596 --> 00:54:01,676
Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

1113
00:54:05,876 --> 00:54:09,036
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of my conversation with Johnny Marr.

1114
00:54:10,076 --> 00:54:13,036
Speaker 1: Where did the riff for Spirit, Power and Soul? Can

1115
00:54:13,076 --> 00:54:14,716
Speaker 1: you figure out how you arrived at that riff?

1116
00:54:14,956 --> 00:54:15,516
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1117
00:54:15,556 --> 00:54:19,516
Speaker 2: What I did was months before, when I was on

1118
00:54:19,956 --> 00:54:23,076
Speaker 2: the road. We had this third album called called The Comet.

1119
00:54:23,716 --> 00:54:27,036
Speaker 2: I started to think, the next single off the next

1120
00:54:27,036 --> 00:54:29,836
Speaker 2: album should be like an electro banger. I kind of

1121
00:54:30,036 --> 00:54:32,316
Speaker 2: did conceptualize it hand on heart.

1122
00:54:32,836 --> 00:54:33,716
Speaker 3: Now, hey, I.

1123
00:54:33,636 --> 00:54:35,836
Speaker 2: Wish I could do that with every trap, but the

1124
00:54:35,836 --> 00:54:38,556
Speaker 2: Smith's used to do that. Sometimes we'd go because I

1125
00:54:38,676 --> 00:54:43,396
Speaker 2: was given a title. Often not always, but sometimes say.

1126
00:54:43,916 --> 00:54:47,516
Speaker 2: Sometimes I was given a title like Panic, and I

1127
00:54:47,556 --> 00:54:50,956
Speaker 2: was like, oh, what does that conjure up?

1128
00:54:51,076 --> 00:54:53,996
Speaker 3: Or meet his murder? And we meet his murder.

1129
00:54:54,436 --> 00:54:57,636
Speaker 2: I set myself the task of writing a horror score

1130
00:54:57,636 --> 00:54:59,596
Speaker 2: for animals because I had the title.

1131
00:55:00,276 --> 00:55:02,876
Speaker 3: So I quite enjoy hey listen as I say. I

1132
00:55:02,956 --> 00:55:04,156
Speaker 3: wish I could do it more often.

1133
00:55:04,196 --> 00:55:06,156
Speaker 2: But I had the idea for Spirit, Power and Soul

1134
00:55:06,276 --> 00:55:10,276
Speaker 2: months before, and I went, oh, man, this and the

1135
00:55:10,396 --> 00:55:13,516
Speaker 2: next album, the first track on it would be really

1136
00:55:13,516 --> 00:55:15,316
Speaker 2: good if I can write an electro banger.

1137
00:55:16,116 --> 00:55:18,236
Speaker 3: So I started with a drum machine. I borrowed the

1138
00:55:18,276 --> 00:55:19,116
Speaker 3: drum machine.

1139
00:55:18,796 --> 00:55:21,836
Speaker 2: Off Steve Morris from New Order, which actually I've got

1140
00:55:21,836 --> 00:55:25,916
Speaker 2: to give it him back. And yeah, I thought, if

1141
00:55:25,916 --> 00:55:28,596
Speaker 2: I'm going to borrow, if I'm gonna borrow a drum machine,

1142
00:55:29,276 --> 00:55:32,796
Speaker 2: who better to borrow one off than Steve's great. So

1143
00:55:33,276 --> 00:55:35,236
Speaker 2: I got in a programming, even though I could have

1144
00:55:35,236 --> 00:55:37,436
Speaker 2: done it much quicker on the laptop, but that wasn't

1145
00:55:37,436 --> 00:55:39,836
Speaker 2: the point. I wanted to do the process, and I

1146
00:55:39,916 --> 00:55:42,276
Speaker 2: was kind of going, all right, we'll do something that's.

1147
00:55:42,556 --> 00:55:47,156
Speaker 3: Like Cabaret Vaultare. So I had the beat.

1148
00:55:47,676 --> 00:55:50,676
Speaker 2: Anyway, I was playing along with that for like four days,

1149
00:55:50,876 --> 00:55:53,116
Speaker 2: and I wrote this song that wasn't very good, and

1150
00:55:53,116 --> 00:55:54,596
Speaker 2: then I had to just kind of scrap it and

1151
00:55:54,596 --> 00:55:57,836
Speaker 2: apply myself again. And I just wrote it and wrote

1152
00:55:57,876 --> 00:56:00,316
Speaker 2: it and wrote it and wrote it. I went in

1153
00:56:00,356 --> 00:56:04,276
Speaker 2: the studio from ten so five or six for five

1154
00:56:04,396 --> 00:56:08,156
Speaker 2: days and I would sing melody and melody and this

1155
00:56:08,196 --> 00:56:10,796
Speaker 2: is too clever, this to melodic, this is I just

1156
00:56:10,916 --> 00:56:14,316
Speaker 2: knew what I wanted, but I knew what it would

1157
00:56:14,356 --> 00:56:16,516
Speaker 2: be when I found it. Hey, I'm talking a little

1158
00:56:16,516 --> 00:56:18,556
Speaker 2: bit like I've written a day in the life. I

1159
00:56:18,556 --> 00:56:20,356
Speaker 2: know it's but that's what I had to do.

1160
00:56:20,396 --> 00:56:22,916
Speaker 1: It's a great song, man, it's a great.

1161
00:56:22,676 --> 00:56:23,476
Speaker 3: Thank you very much.

1162
00:56:23,516 --> 00:56:25,756
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that because I worked my ass off

1163
00:56:25,796 --> 00:56:28,556
Speaker 2: doing it. I just kept writing these vocal melodies that

1164
00:56:28,596 --> 00:56:33,396
Speaker 2: were too melodic, so it became a real craft. The

1165
00:56:33,476 --> 00:56:37,356
Speaker 2: interesting thing about that song is that sometimes I have ideas,

1166
00:56:37,396 --> 00:56:40,916
Speaker 2: and I've had these ideas from being a kid, where

1167
00:56:41,236 --> 00:56:43,396
Speaker 2: I have an idea for what would be a good

1168
00:56:43,436 --> 00:56:46,516
Speaker 2: song away from the guitar and away from the studio,

1169
00:56:46,756 --> 00:56:49,396
Speaker 2: and I have it in my mind, and then I

1170
00:56:49,516 --> 00:56:51,996
Speaker 2: set about trying to do it, and when it works out,

1171
00:56:52,796 --> 00:56:53,716
Speaker 2: it's fantastic.

1172
00:56:54,076 --> 00:56:56,596
Speaker 1: It's a wild way to come to a song like

1173
00:56:56,676 --> 00:56:59,276
Speaker 1: you're not even in the realm of music, you're away

1174
00:56:59,316 --> 00:57:02,036
Speaker 1: from it. Do you think that would be the worst

1175
00:57:02,036 --> 00:57:04,556
Speaker 1: song potentially, that it's like this thing where you're like

1176
00:57:04,636 --> 00:57:07,476
Speaker 1: conceptualizing it before you even have the chance to you know.

1177
00:57:07,716 --> 00:57:10,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm really glad it worked out. But I

1178
00:57:10,316 --> 00:57:14,396
Speaker 2: was determined. And to be fair, I think when you're

1179
00:57:14,436 --> 00:57:18,156
Speaker 2: talking about skills, say, one of the skills that I've

1180
00:57:18,236 --> 00:57:21,436
Speaker 2: learned that I didn't have years ago was I learned

1181
00:57:21,716 --> 00:57:26,316
Speaker 2: this perseverance from Bernard Sumner from New Order, working with

1182
00:57:26,356 --> 00:57:29,836
Speaker 2: Bernard for nine years in electronic If he had an

1183
00:57:29,916 --> 00:57:33,316
Speaker 2: idea for a song and he believed in it, he

1184
00:57:33,396 --> 00:57:36,156
Speaker 2: would not let that thing go away. He would keep

1185
00:57:36,156 --> 00:57:39,596
Speaker 2: coming back to it until he was right. So that

1186
00:57:39,716 --> 00:57:41,756
Speaker 2: was a skill that I've learned along the way from

1187
00:57:41,796 --> 00:57:45,876
Speaker 2: somebody else. It wasn't to do with, you know, diatonic scales,

1188
00:57:45,916 --> 00:57:49,116
Speaker 2: what to do with, you know, music theory. Was to

1189
00:57:49,196 --> 00:57:53,956
Speaker 2: do with application process, and I've learned on that subject.

1190
00:57:54,116 --> 00:57:57,236
Speaker 2: It's been I could go through all the people I've

1191
00:57:57,236 --> 00:57:59,076
Speaker 2: worked with and tell you what I've.

1192
00:57:58,956 --> 00:58:00,556
Speaker 3: Learned from him.

1193
00:58:00,796 --> 00:58:03,396
Speaker 2: Now I think about it, I might be getting a

1194
00:58:03,436 --> 00:58:08,636
Speaker 2: little bit sentimental in my old age, but Isaac Brock, Prizzy,

1195
00:58:08,716 --> 00:58:14,836
Speaker 2: hein everyone, everyone, Really I learned something from all of them.

1196
00:58:15,076 --> 00:58:17,076
Speaker 1: You know, what about from Chrissy.

1197
00:58:17,436 --> 00:58:18,956
Speaker 3: Chrissy ay listen?

1198
00:58:19,076 --> 00:58:20,956
Speaker 2: I played with the last week at Glastonbury, you know,

1199
00:58:21,196 --> 00:58:24,356
Speaker 2: and that was amazing rejoining partic playing those songs after

1200
00:58:24,396 --> 00:58:27,116
Speaker 2: thirty years, you know, because I haven't played them since

1201
00:58:27,316 --> 00:58:31,676
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty whatever. So Chrissy, well, I learned that there's

1202
00:58:31,916 --> 00:58:34,796
Speaker 2: a lot when you walk on stage.

1203
00:58:35,036 --> 00:58:36,356
Speaker 3: Even though I don't want to embarrass it.

1204
00:58:36,436 --> 00:58:39,436
Speaker 2: She might even realize this, but when you walk on

1205
00:58:39,476 --> 00:58:42,236
Speaker 2: stage as the front man, you give off the vibe

1206
00:58:42,436 --> 00:58:43,236
Speaker 2: to the rest of the.

1207
00:58:43,196 --> 00:58:46,516
Speaker 3: Band that no matter what happens, you've got this.

1208
00:58:47,996 --> 00:58:49,956
Speaker 2: And I picked up because I was very young when

1209
00:58:49,956 --> 00:58:51,836
Speaker 2: I was working with Christy was twenty four and we

1210
00:58:51,836 --> 00:58:54,436
Speaker 2: were doing these We were playing sometimes we played to

1211
00:58:54,476 --> 00:58:57,516
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people opening for you too, and certainly

1212
00:58:57,636 --> 00:59:00,556
Speaker 2: seventy thousand people most nights on the Joshua Tree tour.

1213
00:59:00,836 --> 00:59:04,156
Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, I was terrified. But when I

1214
00:59:04,156 --> 00:59:06,916
Speaker 2: walked behind her on stage, I was like, it's cool,

1215
00:59:06,996 --> 00:59:11,556
Speaker 2: she's got this. Try and be that for my band. Yeah,

1216
00:59:11,556 --> 00:59:14,116
Speaker 2: And also, you know, things like in rehearsal. When you

1217
00:59:14,196 --> 00:59:16,956
Speaker 2: wear that one, two, three four. When you start singing,

1218
00:59:17,076 --> 00:59:19,756
Speaker 2: you sing like you're on stage. None of this like

1219
00:59:19,796 --> 00:59:21,796
Speaker 2: looking at your phone or looking up at the roof

1220
00:59:21,956 --> 00:59:24,876
Speaker 2: and or you know, being distracted, when for those four

1221
00:59:24,916 --> 00:59:26,396
Speaker 2: minutes that you're singing.

1222
00:59:26,436 --> 00:59:30,236
Speaker 3: You really are in it. Yeah. I learned a lot

1223
00:59:30,236 --> 00:59:30,716
Speaker 3: from Christy.

1224
00:59:30,836 --> 00:59:34,076
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's quite dedicated as a in her as her

1225
00:59:34,156 --> 00:59:35,756
Speaker 1: role as front person.

1226
00:59:35,676 --> 00:59:38,636
Speaker 2: In a natural way, in a natural way because a

1227
00:59:38,636 --> 00:59:40,356
Speaker 2: big part of her as well is that she's a

1228
00:59:40,356 --> 00:59:43,956
Speaker 2: punk rocker and she's not too referential the business of

1229
00:59:43,996 --> 00:59:47,716
Speaker 2: being in a band. She honors that she thinks being

1230
00:59:47,756 --> 00:59:50,356
Speaker 2: in the band is a special thing, and especially her

1231
00:59:50,356 --> 00:59:52,996
Speaker 2: relationship with a guitar player that goes right back to

1232
00:59:53,076 --> 00:59:54,876
Speaker 2: Jimmy Scott, who I was a big fan of when

1233
00:59:54,876 --> 00:59:56,956
Speaker 2: I was a kid, which you can really hear in

1234
00:59:57,036 --> 00:59:57,676
Speaker 2: my plane, you know.

1235
00:59:58,236 --> 01:00:01,076
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of like, you know, you're sort of thinking

1236
01:00:01,116 --> 01:00:04,316
Speaker 1: of yourself as a pop musician in a weird way.

1237
01:00:04,356 --> 01:00:07,276
Speaker 1: On paper, could look like a strange pairing, but I

1238
01:00:07,316 --> 01:00:10,156
Speaker 1: think having spoken to you now, it seems to make

1239
01:00:10,196 --> 01:00:13,236
Speaker 1: a ton of sense. You and Hans Zimmer and Pharrell

1240
01:00:14,156 --> 01:00:16,596
Speaker 1: getting together. Yeah, about a decade ago, to work on

1241
01:00:16,636 --> 01:00:17,996
Speaker 1: some of that Spider Man stuff.

1242
01:00:18,396 --> 01:00:21,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, well, I've got to say this is

1243
01:00:21,516 --> 01:00:25,476
Speaker 2: classic hands because Hans is a real lateral thinker. He

1244
01:00:25,516 --> 01:00:29,676
Speaker 2: really thinks outside of the box, and he genuinely has

1245
01:00:29,796 --> 01:00:32,356
Speaker 2: told me this so many times now that I really

1246
01:00:32,476 --> 01:00:35,636
Speaker 2: think it's true. So when me and Pharrell first got

1247
01:00:35,636 --> 01:00:37,556
Speaker 2: in a room together and we wrote two songs on

1248
01:00:37,596 --> 01:00:41,276
Speaker 2: that that think just me and him, Hans loved telling

1249
01:00:41,276 --> 01:00:44,596
Speaker 2: this story that he was watching the guy who wrote literally,

1250
01:00:44,676 --> 01:00:47,156
Speaker 2: watching the guy who wrote Heaven Knows I'm miserable Now

1251
01:00:47,556 --> 01:00:49,756
Speaker 2: writing a song with the guy who wrote Happy.

1252
01:00:49,956 --> 01:00:51,756
Speaker 3: He thought that was hilarious.

1253
01:00:52,276 --> 01:00:57,196
Speaker 2: And so we got offered that movie, The Amazing Spider

1254
01:00:57,236 --> 01:01:00,156
Speaker 2: Man three, and he and I got together and he

1255
01:01:00,236 --> 01:01:02,596
Speaker 2: was like, well, what comes to mind what you're thinking.

1256
01:01:02,676 --> 01:01:05,596
Speaker 2: I don't really know the franchise very much, but I

1257
01:01:05,636 --> 01:01:08,596
Speaker 2: had this idea. I saw the opening scene so real

1258
01:01:08,676 --> 01:01:10,876
Speaker 2: rough of it and it was New York and it

1259
01:01:10,916 --> 01:01:13,076
Speaker 2: was like, there's a lot of action and everything, and

1260
01:01:13,116 --> 01:01:15,796
Speaker 2: I said, you know what it should it should be

1261
01:01:15,876 --> 01:01:18,196
Speaker 2: like the Who. I wasn't thinking classic rock, but I

1262
01:01:18,236 --> 01:01:20,116
Speaker 2: was just thinking it should be like Won't get Fooled Again?

1263
01:01:20,156 --> 01:01:21,676
Speaker 3: It should be like if you're asking me as.

1264
01:01:21,596 --> 01:01:25,316
Speaker 2: A guitar player power chords, it's whoa this big kind

1265
01:01:25,356 --> 01:01:28,156
Speaker 2: of explosive thing. I never think in terms of metal.

1266
01:01:28,356 --> 01:01:31,716
Speaker 2: It's just not my bag. But yeah, if I think explosive,

1267
01:01:31,756 --> 01:01:34,796
Speaker 2: I think of like the Who or whatever. And he

1268
01:01:34,876 --> 01:01:37,356
Speaker 2: really liked that idea, and then from that he jumped

1269
01:01:37,356 --> 01:01:40,116
Speaker 2: then to like having a band in a room so

1270
01:01:40,236 --> 01:01:44,236
Speaker 2: straight away because Junkie Excel was he had a studio

1271
01:01:44,676 --> 01:01:46,796
Speaker 2: in the same building that we were in, and he

1272
01:01:46,916 --> 01:01:49,636
Speaker 2: was brilliant like, well listen, we'll get junky Excel on bass.

1273
01:01:50,076 --> 01:01:53,516
Speaker 2: And then we had this idea about this explosive pop book.

1274
01:01:53,956 --> 01:01:58,156
Speaker 2: Hands then was like, who's the most melodic thinking that

1275
01:01:58,236 --> 01:02:00,836
Speaker 2: you can think of? Who's like, who's amazing act coming

1276
01:02:00,876 --> 01:02:03,436
Speaker 2: up with melodies? And he just let's just ask for real,

1277
01:02:03,916 --> 01:02:07,156
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, I was like, well, this

1278
01:02:07,196 --> 01:02:11,556
Speaker 2: would be interesting. I mean, I'm not I'm sure I'm

1279
01:02:11,596 --> 01:02:14,636
Speaker 2: not the first person to say this at all. But

1280
01:02:15,116 --> 01:02:18,436
Speaker 2: when for All comes in the room, He's like, where's

1281
01:02:18,436 --> 01:02:21,836
Speaker 2: the tune? Let me write a tune. He's amazing. We

1282
01:02:21,836 --> 01:02:24,036
Speaker 2: were putting the song down. I don't I'm sure he

1283
01:02:24,076 --> 01:02:26,436
Speaker 2: won't mind me telling this story. I've been for a

1284
01:02:26,516 --> 01:02:29,356
Speaker 2: run in the morning and I had this idea for that.

1285
01:02:29,436 --> 01:02:32,556
Speaker 2: We needed a romantic song. We need like the love

1286
01:02:32,636 --> 01:02:34,396
Speaker 2: the love song in this and I just happened to

1287
01:02:34,396 --> 01:02:36,756
Speaker 2: be out running in the morning and I heard that

1288
01:02:36,796 --> 01:02:38,436
Speaker 2: this this tune in my head. I was like, oh,

1289
01:02:38,516 --> 01:02:40,716
Speaker 2: that would be good, so I'll get I was enthusiastic

1290
01:02:40,756 --> 01:02:43,076
Speaker 2: to get in the studio and put this tune down.

1291
01:02:44,236 --> 01:02:45,356
Speaker 3: So I got in the studio.

1292
01:02:45,196 --> 01:02:47,996
Speaker 2: Kind of early, and we're in this big room and

1293
01:02:48,036 --> 01:02:50,476
Speaker 2: I started laying this down and there's some of the musicians,

1294
01:02:50,476 --> 01:02:53,476
Speaker 2: a couple of string players piano, and Hans was playing piano,

1295
01:02:54,436 --> 01:02:57,356
Speaker 2: and Frell wasn't there, and we started putting this running

1296
01:02:57,396 --> 01:02:59,116
Speaker 2: the chords down and I've got this tune and we're

1297
01:02:59,116 --> 01:03:01,516
Speaker 2: putting it down and we're recording it. And about the

1298
01:03:01,556 --> 01:03:04,676
Speaker 2: second time I get through this tune for our walks

1299
01:03:04,716 --> 01:03:07,756
Speaker 2: in and uh. We're halfway through the tune and he's

1300
01:03:07,796 --> 01:03:09,676
Speaker 2: kind of trying to be quiet and make a noise

1301
01:03:09,836 --> 01:03:12,636
Speaker 2: and he's got he picks the microphone up and when

1302
01:03:12,676 --> 01:03:15,276
Speaker 2: we finished doing this quick run through, we've got to

1303
01:03:15,276 --> 01:03:18,276
Speaker 2: start a third one for some technical reason, and he's

1304
01:03:18,356 --> 01:03:21,676
Speaker 2: asking Steve Lipson to stop the track I want to sing,

1305
01:03:22,316 --> 01:03:24,316
Speaker 2: and Hans goes, can we just put the track down?

1306
01:03:24,356 --> 01:03:26,956
Speaker 3: He goes, I want to. Now, my point in telling this.

1307
01:03:26,916 --> 01:03:31,076
Speaker 2: Story is that most musicians know that is the opposite

1308
01:03:31,116 --> 01:03:33,716
Speaker 2: of what happens. What usually happens is you have a

1309
01:03:33,796 --> 01:03:36,516
Speaker 2: tune and you put the tune down and you have

1310
01:03:36,596 --> 01:03:40,396
Speaker 2: to wait for days for the singer to sing.

1311
01:03:41,396 --> 01:03:43,796
Speaker 3: For I was like, plug this in, plug this in,

1312
01:03:43,916 --> 01:03:47,876
Speaker 3: let me sing. It was brilliant, and he's in the

1313
01:03:47,916 --> 01:03:48,516
Speaker 3: control room.

1314
01:03:48,836 --> 01:03:50,956
Speaker 2: He's tapping on his phone all the time, tapping on

1315
01:03:50,996 --> 01:03:55,636
Speaker 2: his phone writing lyrics. So my experience with with with

1316
01:03:55,636 --> 01:03:59,356
Speaker 2: for Alpha on that movie was he was he is

1317
01:03:59,476 --> 01:04:01,876
Speaker 2: exactly what I thought.

1318
01:04:01,956 --> 01:04:02,316
Speaker 1: He was.

1319
01:04:03,076 --> 01:04:05,036
Speaker 3: Just music just oozes out the guy.

1320
01:04:05,516 --> 01:04:05,996
Speaker 1: I love it.

1321
01:04:06,236 --> 01:04:07,516
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that was this funny thing.

1322
01:04:07,756 --> 01:04:12,636
Speaker 2: But when when I've been a couple of times about collaboration, right,

1323
01:04:12,996 --> 01:04:16,596
Speaker 2: I use that that example of writing with Pharrell as

1324
01:04:16,596 --> 01:04:20,036
Speaker 2: an illustration as to what happens in the collaborative process,

1325
01:04:20,116 --> 01:04:23,676
Speaker 2: because on the face of it, what I say is

1326
01:04:23,836 --> 01:04:27,636
Speaker 2: it's like when you've got two musicians working together. On

1327
01:04:27,676 --> 01:04:29,956
Speaker 2: the face of it, look, I'm an indie rock musician

1328
01:04:29,996 --> 01:04:34,036
Speaker 2: from Manchester in the eighties, and then Pharrell is a

1329
01:04:34,556 --> 01:04:39,036
Speaker 2: R and B, you know, hip hop pop musician from America.

1330
01:04:39,996 --> 01:04:42,356
Speaker 2: But I always say it's a bit like you're getting

1331
01:04:42,396 --> 01:04:45,396
Speaker 2: a rowbot and the two ears are rowing in the

1332
01:04:45,396 --> 01:04:49,716
Speaker 2: same direction and the horizon is the speakers. I think

1333
01:04:49,756 --> 01:04:53,436
Speaker 2: the point is is that music and collaboration and when

1334
01:04:53,436 --> 01:04:55,396
Speaker 2: you're trying to create something with someone, even if you

1335
01:04:55,436 --> 01:04:59,516
Speaker 2: don't know them very well, it transcends your being from

1336
01:05:00,076 --> 01:05:04,956
Speaker 2: different backgrounds, completely transcends it. Yeah, music's amazing for that,

1337
01:05:05,116 --> 01:05:06,476
Speaker 2: and collaboration is amazing.

1338
01:05:06,676 --> 01:05:09,436
Speaker 3: You're both trying to just come up with a good

1339
01:05:09,476 --> 01:05:09,876
Speaker 3: middle eight.

1340
01:05:10,836 --> 01:05:14,036
Speaker 2: And because of that, because people on the outside will go, oh, yeah,

1341
01:05:14,036 --> 01:05:16,516
Speaker 2: you have to check your egos at the door or well,

1342
01:05:16,556 --> 01:05:20,596
Speaker 2: I mean that's a given because people who are serious

1343
01:05:21,196 --> 01:05:23,476
Speaker 2: they just want to make something great and it's not

1344
01:05:23,516 --> 01:05:26,316
Speaker 2: even a question of egos.

1345
01:05:26,996 --> 01:05:27,196
Speaker 3: You know.

1346
01:05:27,236 --> 01:05:30,036
Speaker 2: I mean the people I've worked with, the greats, you

1347
01:05:30,076 --> 01:05:32,036
Speaker 2: know they I'm sure they have an ego when they're

1348
01:05:32,036 --> 01:05:34,956
Speaker 2: getting out on stage, but when it comes down to work,

1349
01:05:35,236 --> 01:05:36,836
Speaker 2: they know, you know, you've got.

1350
01:05:36,716 --> 01:05:37,396
Speaker 3: To put the hours in.

1351
01:05:37,476 --> 01:05:40,716
Speaker 2: Billie Eilish is like that, at Licia Keys is like that,

1352
01:05:41,036 --> 01:05:45,396
Speaker 2: just real hard working, rolling the sleeves up and putting

1353
01:05:45,436 --> 01:05:46,236
Speaker 2: the hours in, you know.

1354
01:05:46,716 --> 01:05:49,476
Speaker 1: Talking about greats who put in the work. What was

1355
01:05:49,516 --> 01:05:54,276
Speaker 1: it like observing or being a part of the Joshua

1356
01:05:54,276 --> 01:05:58,516
Speaker 1: Tree tour like seeing YouTube in that moment as up close.

1357
01:05:58,316 --> 01:06:03,356
Speaker 2: If you were well, the amazing thing was I told

1358
01:06:03,516 --> 01:06:07,436
Speaker 2: Edge this actually that so when I joined that tour,

1359
01:06:07,476 --> 01:06:09,636
Speaker 2: because the pretender's been doing it for a then the

1360
01:06:09,676 --> 01:06:13,356
Speaker 2: guitar player quit and then I joined on there. At

1361
01:06:13,396 --> 01:06:16,716
Speaker 2: that point, Bono was doing this thing where he's in

1362
01:06:16,756 --> 01:06:19,796
Speaker 2: front of whatever, seventy eighty thousand people and they've got

1363
01:06:19,836 --> 01:06:24,996
Speaker 2: this material that is just really sounding good in those stadiums,

1364
01:06:25,756 --> 01:06:28,196
Speaker 2: and don't forget that it was new music then where

1365
01:06:28,236 --> 01:06:30,996
Speaker 2: the Streets have No Name and I still haven't found

1366
01:06:31,036 --> 01:06:31,756
Speaker 2: what I'm looking for.

1367
01:06:31,916 --> 01:06:33,236
Speaker 3: They were new songs.

1368
01:06:32,916 --> 01:06:35,436
Speaker 2: That people were just hearing on the radio, right, So

1369
01:06:35,476 --> 01:06:38,636
Speaker 2: it was like, whoa, this is a pretty good place

1370
01:06:38,676 --> 01:06:38,836
Speaker 2: to be.

1371
01:06:38,916 --> 01:06:40,716
Speaker 3: I was stot out the side of the stage.

1372
01:06:40,396 --> 01:06:43,556
Speaker 2: Going wow, when you hear that, When you hear where

1373
01:06:43,556 --> 01:06:45,116
Speaker 2: the Streets have no Name, which I think they used

1374
01:06:45,116 --> 01:06:48,116
Speaker 2: to start with, you go what, I think this song's

1375
01:06:48,156 --> 01:06:50,836
Speaker 2: going to stick around for a while. And so there

1376
01:06:50,876 --> 01:06:53,996
Speaker 2: was a vibe and they come on and Bono was

1377
01:06:54,036 --> 01:06:57,196
Speaker 2: doing this thing where midway through the set or whatever,

1378
01:06:57,396 --> 01:07:00,316
Speaker 2: he would climb up on the PA and then he

1379
01:07:00,316 --> 01:07:04,076
Speaker 2: would climb on whatever on some light in trust or whatever,

1380
01:07:04,396 --> 01:07:07,116
Speaker 2: and he was hanging down off doing that thing, and

1381
01:07:07,156 --> 01:07:11,436
Speaker 2: he'd be hanging down a fit and you know, and

1382
01:07:11,556 --> 01:07:14,076
Speaker 2: Chrisy said to me, got a look at that.

1383
01:07:14,276 --> 01:07:16,116
Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of laughing about it. What does

1384
01:07:16,156 --> 01:07:16,956
Speaker 3: he think he's doing?

1385
01:07:17,836 --> 01:07:20,076
Speaker 2: And I said to her, you know, Chrisy, I saw

1386
01:07:20,156 --> 01:07:24,036
Speaker 2: him do that in front of about forty people in

1387
01:07:24,076 --> 01:07:26,836
Speaker 2: a little room in Manchester when they first came at

1388
01:07:26,836 --> 01:07:28,876
Speaker 2: Manchester in nineteen eighty.

1389
01:07:28,956 --> 01:07:31,116
Speaker 3: I want to say, me and my pals went down.

1390
01:07:31,116 --> 01:07:33,756
Speaker 2: We heard about him on the John Peel Show and

1391
01:07:34,556 --> 01:07:38,276
Speaker 2: I thought that's really cool because he was doing it

1392
01:07:38,316 --> 01:07:42,956
Speaker 2: back then, and also I guess the music, I think

1393
01:07:42,996 --> 01:07:44,156
Speaker 2: I started to see that.

1394
01:07:44,436 --> 01:07:46,356
Speaker 3: Well, first off, you've got to have a real.

1395
01:07:47,676 --> 01:07:50,516
Speaker 2: Got a lot of energy to be the head of

1396
01:07:50,876 --> 01:07:54,036
Speaker 2: you know, that kind of organization with like you know,

1397
01:07:54,116 --> 01:07:57,796
Speaker 2: fifteen trucks and such a big, big organization. You know,

1398
01:07:57,836 --> 01:07:59,676
Speaker 2: that takes a lot out of you during the day,

1399
01:07:59,756 --> 01:08:03,676
Speaker 2: forget even the shows. Just being the center of all

1400
01:08:03,756 --> 01:08:09,596
Speaker 2: of that operation, which you know, made me realize that, Okay,

1401
01:08:09,636 --> 01:08:10,676
Speaker 2: with being what I am, you.

1402
01:08:10,636 --> 01:08:13,996
Speaker 3: Know, but because you know, I don't like a lot

1403
01:08:13,996 --> 01:08:16,476
Speaker 3: of fuss, so I really admired that.

1404
01:08:16,756 --> 01:08:19,796
Speaker 2: But how masterful it was that you the tunes have

1405
01:08:19,876 --> 01:08:22,796
Speaker 2: to be really if you listen to those, that kind

1406
01:08:22,796 --> 01:08:26,196
Speaker 2: of music, which I guess was part of what defined

1407
01:08:26,436 --> 01:08:27,556
Speaker 2: now stayed in music.

1408
01:08:28,356 --> 01:08:32,676
Speaker 3: It's very simple, but it's in the I.

1409
01:08:32,556 --> 01:08:36,556
Speaker 2: Remember those those nights has been pretty there's a lot

1410
01:08:36,596 --> 01:08:43,156
Speaker 2: of motion in that music. Simple doesn't necessarily mean like vacuous.

1411
01:08:43,516 --> 01:08:45,356
Speaker 2: I still haven't found what I'm looking for is such

1412
01:08:45,356 --> 01:08:51,196
Speaker 2: as and and the Singing Man.

1413
01:08:52,276 --> 01:08:54,996
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was really that. That was very very cool.

1414
01:08:55,036 --> 01:08:57,556
Speaker 2: And again you know the chemistry of a band, if ever,

1415
01:08:57,796 --> 01:09:00,396
Speaker 2: you know, you want to talk about chemistry, you know,

1416
01:09:00,756 --> 01:09:06,116
Speaker 2: look at those guys. They're kind of really archetypal. You know,

1417
01:09:06,156 --> 01:09:09,756
Speaker 2: the edges are really archetypal. He's rolling the band, and

1418
01:09:09,796 --> 01:09:12,956
Speaker 2: you know, he's kind of arty, and he's got imagination

1419
01:09:13,196 --> 01:09:16,156
Speaker 2: and he he sort of paints pictures and with his

1420
01:09:16,596 --> 01:09:19,996
Speaker 2: guitars that sound and all of that. And Adam really

1421
01:09:20,036 --> 01:09:23,396
Speaker 2: holds it down. And then Bono is a flamboyant on

1422
01:09:23,516 --> 01:09:26,396
Speaker 2: stage and off kind of concepts guy, and and Larry's

1423
01:09:26,436 --> 01:09:28,996
Speaker 2: the guy who kind of really is he formed the

1424
01:09:28,996 --> 01:09:31,396
Speaker 2: whole thing, and he's like the engine in a way. Yea,

1425
01:09:31,636 --> 01:09:34,276
Speaker 2: So it comes back to that thing if you are

1426
01:09:34,316 --> 01:09:34,996
Speaker 2: what you play.

1427
01:09:35,676 --> 01:09:38,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I think about the Edge, I also start

1428
01:09:38,396 --> 01:09:41,676
Speaker 1: to think about like Johnny Greenwood, Oh yeah, I mean

1429
01:09:41,756 --> 01:09:44,156
Speaker 1: he seems to me like you also, where it's like

1430
01:09:44,876 --> 01:09:47,236
Speaker 1: it's sort of just down to like like it doesn't

1431
01:09:47,276 --> 01:09:50,196
Speaker 1: matter how complicated it sounds. It's just like what fits

1432
01:09:50,276 --> 01:09:52,796
Speaker 1: the strap, you know, and is adventurous.

1433
01:09:52,796 --> 01:09:56,236
Speaker 2: Similarly, yeah, well, well, difference between me and Johnny though,

1434
01:09:56,396 --> 01:09:58,236
Speaker 2: is that he's been able to grow with the same

1435
01:09:58,356 --> 01:10:02,116
Speaker 2: musicians over a long period of time, you know what

1436
01:10:02,156 --> 01:10:05,076
Speaker 2: I mean, because again they are another band, you know,

1437
01:10:05,196 --> 01:10:06,716
Speaker 2: with amazing chemistry.

1438
01:10:07,636 --> 01:10:09,916
Speaker 3: Jo they've all become who they are.

1439
01:10:10,036 --> 01:10:11,876
Speaker 2: I mean, I know now that you know, they got

1440
01:10:11,876 --> 01:10:13,556
Speaker 2: to a place where they're all doing their own projects

1441
01:10:13,556 --> 01:10:17,356
Speaker 2: and everything. But Johnny's been in a place where he's

1442
01:10:17,396 --> 01:10:22,196
Speaker 2: been able to grow with Phil Selway playing behind him

1443
01:10:22,396 --> 01:10:25,316
Speaker 2: and with Tom next to him. The difference with me

1444
01:10:25,396 --> 01:10:29,436
Speaker 2: is that I've done that in different bands. I think

1445
01:10:29,436 --> 01:10:31,916
Speaker 2: that's a big difference between me and Johnny. You know,

1446
01:10:32,116 --> 01:10:35,236
Speaker 2: in a way if you like Johnny's Johnny's family stayed

1447
01:10:35,236 --> 01:10:38,276
Speaker 2: together a long time, whereas my family was a very

1448
01:10:38,596 --> 01:10:40,956
Speaker 2: the family I was known for was very short lived,

1449
01:10:41,316 --> 01:10:43,516
Speaker 2: you know, in the Smiths, which is fine now. It

1450
01:10:43,556 --> 01:10:45,796
Speaker 2: happens with a lot more bands in than the ones

1451
01:10:45,836 --> 01:10:47,236
Speaker 2: that stay together for forty years.

1452
01:10:47,356 --> 01:10:50,156
Speaker 1: I think like the Beatles too, the Beatles. The Beatles

1453
01:10:50,156 --> 01:10:52,716
Speaker 1: short lived, but a lot of packed a big punch

1454
01:10:52,836 --> 01:10:55,596
Speaker 1: in their time. And it's smith I mean, you look

1455
01:10:55,636 --> 01:10:58,116
Speaker 1: at the work you guys did in the short amount

1456
01:10:58,156 --> 01:10:59,716
Speaker 1: of time. It's like, damn, it's a lot of It's

1457
01:10:59,756 --> 01:11:00,436
Speaker 1: a lot of work.

1458
01:11:00,716 --> 01:11:04,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it felt like that, and I'm very extremely

1459
01:11:04,596 --> 01:11:07,636
Speaker 2: proud of it. But I think Johnny's as well as

1460
01:11:07,676 --> 01:11:11,356
Speaker 2: been supremely talented, I think he's been in a place

1461
01:11:11,396 --> 01:11:16,276
Speaker 2: where he can really he occupies his place in that

1462
01:11:16,356 --> 01:11:20,636
Speaker 2: band and has done for a long time now, and

1463
01:11:20,916 --> 01:11:23,276
Speaker 2: he's you know that band that they've all they've all

1464
01:11:23,436 --> 01:11:26,076
Speaker 2: sort of grown around each other, you know what I mean.

1465
01:11:26,476 --> 01:11:29,196
Speaker 2: You pick any album like kid A or that, you know,

1466
01:11:29,196 --> 01:11:32,076
Speaker 2: I'm easy at that period. I really like him Rainbows

1467
01:11:32,076 --> 01:11:36,836
Speaker 2: as well, and they've all kind of evolved together. So

1468
01:11:36,916 --> 01:11:39,676
Speaker 2: I think that's really that's really suited him as a musician.

1469
01:11:39,876 --> 01:11:42,996
Speaker 2: I think it always suited my personality to kind of

1470
01:11:43,596 --> 01:11:46,596
Speaker 2: flit around. Really, you know, it doesn't come as any

1471
01:11:46,636 --> 01:11:49,676
Speaker 2: surprise to me whatsoever that I've been in loads of

1472
01:11:49,676 --> 01:11:50,356
Speaker 2: different bands.

1473
01:11:50,516 --> 01:11:52,876
Speaker 1: Going back to the beginning of our conversation, I love

1474
01:11:52,916 --> 01:11:54,916
Speaker 1: that it's something you've done, and I wish you. I

1475
01:11:54,916 --> 01:11:57,076
Speaker 1: don't know. It's like, you know, if I had my brothers,

1476
01:11:57,356 --> 01:12:00,276
Speaker 1: my personal taste taking into consideration I had my brothers,

1477
01:12:00,476 --> 01:12:02,556
Speaker 1: I would have that happen more often. Like I love

1478
01:12:02,996 --> 01:12:05,276
Speaker 1: seeing different like going back to jazz, like I love

1479
01:12:05,556 --> 01:12:07,076
Speaker 1: it's like I love the fact that I can pull

1480
01:12:07,156 --> 01:12:09,116
Speaker 1: up and be like, oh, I want to hear, Oh

1481
01:12:09,156 --> 01:12:12,316
Speaker 1: I can hear Askar Peterson play with with Check Baker

1482
01:12:12,356 --> 01:12:14,516
Speaker 1: on this one, or I can hear I want to

1483
01:12:14,516 --> 01:12:18,076
Speaker 1: hear Wayne Shorter play with you know, Jimmy Cabb instead

1484
01:12:18,116 --> 01:12:20,196
Speaker 1: of what you know, right, I just want to hear

1485
01:12:20,196 --> 01:12:23,156
Speaker 1: what the different combinations and formations sound like. And that's

1486
01:12:23,156 --> 01:12:25,556
Speaker 1: what's cool about and why I got into make last

1487
01:12:25,556 --> 01:12:27,756
Speaker 1: playlists around news because it's like just cool toy hear

1488
01:12:28,076 --> 01:12:30,476
Speaker 1: how someone sounds in different context with different people at

1489
01:12:30,476 --> 01:12:32,236
Speaker 1: different times. It's just fun.

1490
01:12:32,356 --> 01:12:35,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Well, sometimes I think what I do is

1491
01:12:35,396 --> 01:12:38,516
Speaker 2: more heard in some situations than others. So in the

1492
01:12:38,556 --> 01:12:40,876
Speaker 2: other there was quite a lot of space for me

1493
01:12:40,956 --> 01:12:45,076
Speaker 2: to do my thing in especially on the Dusk album

1494
01:12:45,316 --> 01:12:47,036
Speaker 2: you can Hear You can Hear Me quite a lot,

1495
01:12:47,076 --> 01:12:50,076
Speaker 2: and then other times, like with electronic, the guitar kind

1496
01:12:50,076 --> 01:12:53,116
Speaker 2: of got squeezed out. But that was my actually down

1497
01:12:53,116 --> 01:12:56,436
Speaker 2: to me because I was really kind of getting getting

1498
01:12:56,436 --> 01:12:59,596
Speaker 2: so in electronic pop and I just got really enthusiastic

1499
01:12:59,636 --> 01:13:01,316
Speaker 2: for that, and I guess, you know, I just sort

1500
01:13:01,316 --> 01:13:03,156
Speaker 2: of fell out of love with being a rock musician

1501
01:13:03,476 --> 01:13:05,436
Speaker 2: during that period. But that's okay because I was only

1502
01:13:05,436 --> 01:13:07,996
Speaker 2: twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven. It's all part of

1503
01:13:08,036 --> 01:13:10,876
Speaker 2: it and I've done that now and if you know,

1504
01:13:11,036 --> 01:13:14,436
Speaker 2: but but where the guitar did feature in on electronics

1505
01:13:14,476 --> 01:13:18,036
Speaker 2: records likes feel every be and get the message.

1506
01:13:18,756 --> 01:13:20,236
Speaker 3: It was pretty interesting stuff.

1507
01:13:20,436 --> 01:13:22,396
Speaker 2: I kind of wish that I had done more of it,

1508
01:13:23,076 --> 01:13:25,476
Speaker 2: and Bernard was always, to be fair of Bernard was

1509
01:13:25,476 --> 01:13:27,076
Speaker 2: always encouraging me to do more of it, but I

1510
01:13:27,116 --> 01:13:29,996
Speaker 2: wanted to learn about other aspects of record making there

1511
01:13:29,996 --> 01:13:32,236
Speaker 2: so it is or what it is and you know,

1512
01:13:32,316 --> 01:13:35,116
Speaker 2: and on the Cribs record that I made, there's plenty

1513
01:13:35,116 --> 01:13:36,196
Speaker 2: of me on that stuff.

1514
01:13:36,236 --> 01:13:37,116
Speaker 3: I can hear a lot of that.

1515
01:13:37,316 --> 01:13:40,236
Speaker 2: So I mean, I really feel like as a and

1516
01:13:40,276 --> 01:13:42,716
Speaker 2: I don't mean to sound glib or whatever, but I

1517
01:13:42,796 --> 01:13:45,756
Speaker 2: kind of think of as a British guitar player, I've

1518
01:13:45,796 --> 01:13:47,956
Speaker 2: kind of had the best job I could think of.

1519
01:13:48,596 --> 01:13:52,756
Speaker 2: I mean genuinely, you know, I understand sure be could

1520
01:13:52,796 --> 01:13:56,036
Speaker 2: dismiss are so revered and so loved over time and

1521
01:13:56,236 --> 01:13:59,276
Speaker 2: almost you know, times made the band almost even more

1522
01:13:59,756 --> 01:14:03,756
Speaker 2: kind of you know, valued or whatever the big narrative is.

1523
01:14:04,076 --> 01:14:05,876
Speaker 2: People are seeing, oh the band was so short lived,

1524
01:14:05,876 --> 01:14:07,956
Speaker 2: if only they could stay together for longer, and all

1525
01:14:07,996 --> 01:14:09,956
Speaker 2: of that. But it makes top sense to me that

1526
01:14:10,516 --> 01:14:13,276
Speaker 2: just speaking for my own life, that I've done all

1527
01:14:13,276 --> 01:14:17,396
Speaker 2: of this different stuff as a guitar player, it's entirely

1528
01:14:17,436 --> 01:14:20,436
Speaker 2: the person I was when that when I was fourteen fifteen,

1529
01:14:20,516 --> 01:14:23,276
Speaker 2: and I say that all the time, and it's it's

1530
01:14:23,316 --> 01:14:23,956
Speaker 2: the person.

1531
01:14:23,716 --> 01:14:24,796
Speaker 3: That I kind of dreamed of being.

1532
01:14:24,876 --> 01:14:27,796
Speaker 2: Really. I mean, obviously, you know, life throws all kinds

1533
01:14:27,796 --> 01:14:31,036
Speaker 2: of curve balls without getting down you know too philosophical,

1534
01:14:31,316 --> 01:14:35,836
Speaker 2: nothing doesn't turn out like a fairy tale. But professionally, man,

1535
01:14:35,916 --> 01:14:38,316
Speaker 2: I can't. Sometimes I think, wow, I was under there.

1536
01:14:38,356 --> 01:14:39,996
Speaker 2: They were my favorite band at the time.

1537
01:14:40,356 --> 01:14:44,636
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and you were with them and maybe you know,

1538
01:14:44,756 --> 01:14:47,436
Speaker 1: like maybe their best record, you know, like Dusk is like.

1539
01:14:47,476 --> 01:14:50,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Dusk is a real good one. Yeah.

1540
01:14:50,796 --> 01:14:52,196
Speaker 3: It's just weird that it all turned out.

1541
01:14:52,236 --> 01:14:55,236
Speaker 2: And then, you know, it was really when I The

1542
01:14:55,276 --> 01:14:57,396
Speaker 2: short thing with Body's Mouth was that I went through

1543
01:14:57,396 --> 01:15:00,156
Speaker 2: a period where the late night is were I just

1544
01:15:00,436 --> 01:15:04,076
Speaker 2: wasn't really hearing that much in British guitar music that

1545
01:15:04,196 --> 01:15:07,556
Speaker 2: excited me, but I was hearing it in American guitar music.

1546
01:15:07,756 --> 01:15:09,596
Speaker 3: I built to Spill he liked.

1547
01:15:09,716 --> 01:15:12,516
Speaker 2: And there was a band called the Lilies I really

1548
01:15:12,636 --> 01:15:14,956
Speaker 2: liked from out of Boston.

1549
01:15:15,956 --> 01:15:19,476
Speaker 3: I thought Lilies were great. And then and Elliott Smith

1550
01:15:19,516 --> 01:15:22,756
Speaker 3: And what ant was I met Elliott and Elliott Smith?

1551
01:15:22,916 --> 01:15:24,276
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I met Elliott a couple of times.

1552
01:15:24,316 --> 01:15:26,436
Speaker 2: In the first time I met him, I was talking

1553
01:15:26,436 --> 01:15:29,556
Speaker 2: to him about these bands and he hit me up

1554
01:15:29,596 --> 01:15:31,436
Speaker 2: to Modest Mouse. I didn't know what Modest Mouse was.

1555
01:15:31,476 --> 01:15:33,356
Speaker 2: It was Elliot who told me about Maddy Smouse and

1556
01:15:33,356 --> 01:15:35,516
Speaker 2: he said, well, listen, if you had Madice Mouse. He

1557
01:15:35,556 --> 01:15:37,996
Speaker 2: said something like all roads lead to Modice Mouse. I

1558
01:15:38,036 --> 01:15:40,756
Speaker 2: was like, okay, So that's how I got into He

1559
01:15:40,836 --> 01:15:44,556
Speaker 2: took me on the Moon and Antarctica, and then six

1560
01:15:44,636 --> 01:15:46,436
Speaker 2: seven years later I ended up being a full time

1561
01:15:46,436 --> 01:15:48,476
Speaker 2: member of the band for like longer than people think.

1562
01:15:48,516 --> 01:15:48,756
Speaker 3: I thought.

1563
01:15:48,756 --> 01:15:51,116
Speaker 2: I joined the band two thousand and five and I

1564
01:15:51,196 --> 01:15:55,236
Speaker 2: left the band twenty ten think and ended up moving

1565
01:15:55,276 --> 01:15:58,116
Speaker 2: to Portland. So that was all down to Without Elliott,

1566
01:15:58,116 --> 01:15:59,236
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have known about that.

1567
01:15:59,516 --> 01:16:00,356
Speaker 1: How did you ell you?

1568
01:16:02,156 --> 01:16:04,876
Speaker 2: I was in LA and mutual friend said he wanted

1569
01:16:04,916 --> 01:16:07,316
Speaker 2: to meet me, and we're a couple of mutual friends,

1570
01:16:07,476 --> 01:16:09,996
Speaker 2: and I think XO would just come out, and I.

1571
01:16:09,956 --> 01:16:12,356
Speaker 3: Thought that was great. I just thought he was really good.

1572
01:16:13,076 --> 01:16:15,796
Speaker 2: And then then I knew a couple of these musicians

1573
01:16:16,116 --> 01:16:18,356
Speaker 2: and he always had really nice The thing about him

1574
01:16:18,396 --> 01:16:18,876
Speaker 2: was the people.

1575
01:16:18,716 --> 01:16:20,796
Speaker 3: I knew who worked with him were all really nice people.

1576
01:16:21,796 --> 01:16:23,756
Speaker 2: My friend Scott, he was his drummer for a while,

1577
01:16:24,356 --> 01:16:25,956
Speaker 2: so we had kind of we had a.

1578
01:16:25,916 --> 01:16:27,596
Speaker 3: Sort of mutual sort of scene.

1579
01:16:27,636 --> 01:16:30,196
Speaker 2: Really yeah, but I look back on all this and

1580
01:16:30,556 --> 01:16:32,556
Speaker 2: I think, Wow, I'm kind of glad.

1581
01:16:32,676 --> 01:16:33,956
Speaker 3: I'm glad that things works out.

1582
01:16:34,156 --> 01:16:37,236
Speaker 1: It worked out amazingly. Before we go, man, do you

1583
01:16:37,276 --> 01:16:38,716
Speaker 1: have I see your guitars back there? Do you have

1584
01:16:38,796 --> 01:16:40,756
Speaker 1: your nine? You have a you have a book coming

1585
01:16:40,756 --> 01:16:43,636
Speaker 1: out called Mars Guitars that I'm excited to check out.

1586
01:16:44,236 --> 01:16:47,436
Speaker 1: Do you have your nine pickup guitar?

1587
01:16:48,676 --> 01:16:51,396
Speaker 3: No one's ever asked me about that guitar. They probably

1588
01:16:51,396 --> 01:16:51,876
Speaker 3: won't again.

1589
01:16:52,076 --> 01:16:55,036
Speaker 2: Just it's in my actual studio because this is this

1590
01:16:55,076 --> 01:16:57,916
Speaker 2: is my house now. But it's an amazing sound.

1591
01:16:58,156 --> 01:16:58,436
Speaker 3: It's a.

1592
01:17:03,356 --> 01:17:09,276
Speaker 2: You know, I don't drink anymore, but I wasn't actually drunk.

1593
01:17:08,916 --> 01:17:09,716
Speaker 3: When I bought it.

1594
01:17:09,756 --> 01:17:11,436
Speaker 2: I may head, but it was back in the days

1595
01:17:11,436 --> 01:17:13,636
Speaker 2: when I was like drinking quite a lot.

1596
01:17:14,236 --> 01:17:15,956
Speaker 3: I was either drunk from the night before.

1597
01:17:15,996 --> 01:17:18,076
Speaker 2: But I went into a guitar shop with Nold galageries

1598
01:17:18,116 --> 01:17:19,596
Speaker 2: only I think it was said maybe they might be

1599
01:17:19,676 --> 01:17:22,236
Speaker 2: when the very first day we met and I saw

1600
01:17:22,276 --> 01:17:24,996
Speaker 2: this thing, and I just was like my logic for

1601
01:17:24,996 --> 01:17:28,796
Speaker 2: buying that guitar. I was like, Okay, if Kraftwork played guitar,

1602
01:17:29,356 --> 01:17:32,116
Speaker 2: that's what they would play. Nola had only just met me,

1603
01:17:32,156 --> 01:17:35,116
Speaker 2: and I think he thought this guy is a crazy,

1604
01:17:35,716 --> 01:17:36,676
Speaker 2: crazy rock star.

1605
01:17:37,956 --> 01:17:39,236
Speaker 1: That's a fair assessment.

1606
01:17:40,156 --> 01:17:42,236
Speaker 2: But you know what, maybe it was about what it

1607
01:17:42,356 --> 01:17:44,836
Speaker 2: probably almost thirty years later, I had to wait to

1608
01:17:44,876 --> 01:17:46,356
Speaker 2: get a song out of it, but it was spirit,

1609
01:17:46,476 --> 01:17:47,036
Speaker 2: power and soul.

1610
01:17:47,356 --> 01:17:48,516
Speaker 1: Ah so cool.

1611
01:17:48,756 --> 01:17:49,716
Speaker 3: It came up with the riffs.

1612
01:17:49,796 --> 01:17:52,876
Speaker 2: So hey, that's my that's that's my excuse, and I'm

1613
01:17:52,876 --> 01:17:54,076
Speaker 2: sticking to it. Man.

1614
01:17:54,156 --> 01:17:55,876
Speaker 1: I got a thousand and one questions for you. Man,

1615
01:17:55,916 --> 01:17:58,036
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's such a such a pleasure.

1616
01:17:58,076 --> 01:18:00,476
Speaker 3: Hearkened to you all right, man, all the best. Thank you.

1617
01:18:00,596 --> 01:18:06,716
Speaker 1: See he thanks Johnny Mar for talking about his epic career.

1618
01:18:07,396 --> 01:18:10,076
Speaker 1: You can hear all of our favorite tracks featuring Mar,

1619
01:18:10,116 --> 01:18:12,076
Speaker 1: as well as some of his solo work on a

1620
01:18:12,116 --> 01:18:16,276
Speaker 1: playlist apt Broken Record podcast dot com. You can subscribe

1621
01:18:16,316 --> 01:18:19,316
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken

1622
01:18:19,356 --> 01:18:22,236
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.

1623
01:18:22,956 --> 01:18:26,476
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

1624
01:18:26,516 --> 01:18:29,276
Speaker 1: Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,

1625
01:18:29,596 --> 01:18:33,596
Speaker 1: Ben Holliday, and Eric sam Our. Editor is Sophie Kran.

1626
01:18:34,436 --> 01:18:37,316
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

1627
01:18:37,356 --> 01:18:40,196
Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to

1628
01:18:40,236 --> 01:18:44,436
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

1629
01:18:44,476 --> 01:18:48,036
Speaker 1: bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety

1630
01:18:48,076 --> 01:18:51,876
Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

1631
01:18:52,276 --> 01:18:54,556
Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate,

1632
01:18:54,596 --> 01:18:57,596
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. My theme music

1633
01:18:57,596 --> 01:18:59,916
Speaker 1: expect Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rischman.