WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Who was Peter Bergmann 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.520 Thinking Sideways is not supported by monkeys with kinson knives. Instead, 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.680 it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.720 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:26.720 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:31.760 of things we simply don't know the answer too. Well. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.640 Here there, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:42.519 as always, joined by Devin and Steve. All right, and uh, 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.279 this week we're going to talk about guess what, another 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.760 unsolved mystery. Yeah we're out of those. Yeah, no, we're 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.720 not quite out. We will be soon. Sorry about that, folks. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:57.640 But it's Cooking with Joe right exactly, show how to 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.840 cook Raman the fifth Way. Actually, have you heard how 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.760 bad Roman supposed toly is for you? Now? Yeah? Really? Okay, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.600 yeah really bad? Don't cook with it. Turns out like 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:08.759 fish oil is not actually all that good for you either. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.560 We're already off topic and we're not a minute into 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.840 the show, haven't even Yeah, I know, let's let's get 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.120 let's going on with this. So this week we're gonna 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:22.839 talk about an interesting little mystery out of Ireland, which 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.600 is a stranger of mysterious island. Uh, we're gonna talk 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.479 about the case of Peter Bergman, who you guys people 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.720 people may or may not have heard of. Before we 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.319 go any further, I would like to give a shout 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.360 out to our listener John who suggested this topic. Thanks John, 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.280 and so let's get started. So who was Peter Bergman? 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.720 Nobody knows. Uh, it's almost certainly was not this guy's 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.800 real name. There might be somebody out there who does know, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.960 but they're apparently not talking. So our story began in 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.559 two thousand nine, Uh, specifically in June twelfth, two thousand nine, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.560 when Peter Bergman showed up in the town of Sligo, Ireland, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.240 and then four days later he was found add on 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:02.440 a beach north of the town. You cut this one 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:07.760 close under the five year wire, didn't you there. Yeah, 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.359 it's only six years old. Six years in a couple 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.320 of months. Yeah, al right. He was found dead on 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.720 the beach. Uh. And autopsy was done, of course, and 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.239 it turned up no signs of violence or foul play. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.280 It also showed that he had advanced prostate cancer, he 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.320 had bone tumors, and it appeared that he had had 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.520 a few previous heart attacks, so not in the greatest 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.600 of shape. There was no evidence of pain killers in 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.800 his system, although he did he had some aspir in 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.480 his possession when he died, but he had he wasn't 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.440 taking it apparently, which is like we should mention really 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.919 really odd first time, he would have likely have been 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.200 in an immense amount of pain, or at least some pain, right, Yeah, 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.040 I'll disagree with that. Well, I I just everybody says, well, 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.640 he had to be in such pain. I'm not sure. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:57.600 I don't know that. I mean, I know it was 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.120 it was in his bones and everything else. But I've 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.799 known people who have had massive amounts of cancer all 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.720 through their body. They felt little off, that was it 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.880 until they happened ago the doctrine figure out what was 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.079 going on. Yeah, so relatively Okay, So I don't I 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.320 don't know that he necessarily would have been in really 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.320 any substantial amount of pain. It might not have been. 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.760 It's hard to say. I mean, I've seen video of him, 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.280 and he didn't didn't appear to be over him pain 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.480 or anything like that. Oh, there were two other strange 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.000 things that were found in the autopsy. He had had 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.880 one kidney removed and also even though he was found 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.280 apparently washed up on a beach. He didn't die by drowning. 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.520 That's a mystery. That's weird. How did he die? Yeah? 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.200 Who was Peter Bergmann? What was he up to in 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.520 Sligo in the days between he arrived on Friday and 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.160 he died on the sixteenth of June. What brought him 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.360 to the town, what brought him to the beach at 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.800 Ross's Point which is where he died? And how and 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:55.920 why did he die if he didn't drown? Really? Yeah, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.040 it's intrigue. Yeah that sounds this is like the Tom 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.720 and Trude case. Yeah, kind of. It's reminiscent of that. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.520 Yeah it is. Yeah, let's let's get to the last 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.320 mystery first, which is how did he die if he 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.000 didn't drown? Well, actually, it turns out he did drown, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.679 even yeah, even though yeah the Wikipedia, Wikipedia and web Sluice, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.839 etcetera say that he didn't drown, he actually did. How 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.640 do you know that? I got this from the website 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:26.520 of the Federal Office of Criminal Investigation in Germany, which 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.440 is kind of their equivalent of the FBI. Yeah, they 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.039 have what's called their unknown Dead section unidentified dead people, 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:35.919 and he's got his own page on there with his 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.240 description and his photograph and everything, and it lists the 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.880 cause of death that's drowning. Yeah. So it was interesting 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.040 to me because I did a fair number of actually 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.440 spent this entire afternoon because it was two thousand nine, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.640 so there should be records of the you know, there 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.159 would have been newspaper articles. In my mind, right, people 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.640 would have been like, Wow, this guy washed up on 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.440 shore dead, like that's weird, and there was a weirdness 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.359 around the case anyway. And I couldn't find anything I 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:09.240 found said he died of drowning. I found, I didn't 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.920 find any I found one newspaper article was the only 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.039 one I could find that was pre the release of 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.960 the movie we're about to talk about. Um. It was 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.160 from April, and it didn't say anything about the cause 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.520 of death at all. It didn't address it. It actually 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.360 didn't address any of the health anything's so I thought 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.360 that was a little odd. But you know, you couldn't 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.119 find anything about the autopsy. You couldn't find anything about, 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.040 you know, anything from that actual time, even from that year, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.800 which I thought was weird. He didn't make the papers, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.919 he didn't make the news. It made it made the news, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.600 but it's one of those things very local, popped up 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.760 and then died out again pretty quickly. Well, I like 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.440 searched through the archives of like the local newspapers, the 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.760 chronicle there, and it didn't have anything very odd. And 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.000 it's possible that, you know, and as I said, it 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.400 was just this afternoon, so it's possible. Had I, you know, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.200 given myself more time to do more digging, you would 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.719 have cropped up. But I did a lot of googling 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.080 and it didn't. There's not a huge amount out there 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.680 about this one. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, I know, 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.400 I found a lot of repetition in what was available. Yeah, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.880 almost everything I found was more about the movie than 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.400 it was about the case. And what it was about 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.360 the case tended to be not not word for word 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:26.320 copy paste like we find a lot, but very very 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:32.120 lax rewritings. Yeah I noticed that. Yeah. Yeah, So but anyway, 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.400 i'd luckily I did find that German website and so 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.240 that clears that up. Yeah, which is I think what happened. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.520 I think I know how that got started because we 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.800 mentioned the film in two thousand and thirteen, again named 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.320 Karen Cassidy made a short film called The Last Days 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.320 of Peter Bergman. And in this film, it's it's he 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.480 actually splices together interviews with a lot of close circuit 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:56.400 TV footage from the circuit TV all over that town. 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.479 Yeah yeah, yeah, they've got it all wired up, but 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.760 they ended you. Clive Killgallan, who was the medical examiner 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.080 who performed the autopsy on Bergmann, and he stated in 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.120 the interview, said that initially there were no outward signs 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.040 of saltwater drowning. Uh. And my takeaway from that as 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.640 that he meant at first glance, he didn't look drowned. 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:16.440 That is all that he meant by it. That's as 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.640 far as he went. And he didn't say there was 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.200 no evidence of drowning. After the autopsy, he also didn't 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.600 say drowned. He didn't say it either. Yeah, yeah, you 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.840 know now, I mean I watched it. I watched it 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.400 again this afternoon, and I'm just thinking, was his bit 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.440 in the movie It ends almost immediately after that, doesn't 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.880 it the only interview they had with him? Right? But 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.200 I'm just saying he's on there for I don't know, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.160 maybe a minute, But as soon as he says that bit, 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.640 it cuts to something else, and I wonder if that 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.200 intentionally got left out. I don't know. I don't want 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:51.120 to point fingers. I'm just wondering. I don't think the 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.960 film intended to mislead because like, for example, you here 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.800 the detective who investigated the case saying after that that 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.080 that he think he thinks that perhaps Bergman intended to 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:01.920 be carried out to see and not washed back up 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.240 on sure. So it seems to me that they just 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.680 didn't even talk about the cause of death because it 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.200 was just larteringly obvious, and so they didn't feel the 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.320 need to talk about it. But it didn't come across 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.120 as obvious as they wanted it, maybe, which we've been 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.680 we've been guilty of a time or two. Yeah, but yeah, 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.840 I mean I And obviously you can infer that he drowned, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.640 because if he hadn't drowned, then that would have been 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:25.560 that would have added a huge bit of mystery to 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.440 this whole thing. Why did he just go to go 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.800 to the beach and will himself to die? You know? 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.800 And they didn't bring up anything like that and also 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.319 kill Gallen in his interview. That's again s a medical 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.520 examiner said nothing about a missing kidney, and you think 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.840 he did a pretty thorough autopsy. He found the cancer 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.000 and then the bone tumors and the heart attacks and 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.320 all that stuff, and he didn't notice it was a 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.120 missing kidney. Yeah, it seems like he would have mentioned that. Yeah, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.400 the only place I I looked around and I didn't 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.920 find any mention of that other than the Wikipedia page, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.160 So I think we can discount. And I couldn't find 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.000 I followed the links, I know, like sometimes we just 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.720 read a Wikipedia page and go on our business, but 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.440 I actually did my due diligence and tried to follow 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.080 all the links, and the one where it said that 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.520 he hadn't drowned. The in the autopsy section of the 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.720 Wikipedia linked to that German website that you posted, um, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.720 which obviously they hadn't really I don't know, translated well enough. Really, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.120 they didn't do a good job of translate. It was 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.440 just odd that, you know, on the Wikipedia page, the 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.360 source that they cited for said the exact opposite of 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.280 the thing that citing it. So there were some problems 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.600 with that Wikipedia page for sure. Definitely. Yeah, Yeah, it 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.400 happens anyway. So now we solved that mystery. Let's let's 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.320 talk about the rest of it, because there's still still 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:45.559 some remaining mystery here, lots of it. Yeah. Um, so 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.600 our mystery begins June twelve, two thousand nine. As I said, 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.400 Peter Bergmann, if that's his real name, we have to 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.800 call him that because that's all we know him by. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.680 That's all we know him by. That's right. So he 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.120 got on a bus in Dairy, Northern Ireland and wrote 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.760 it to Sligo, which is also in Northern Ireland, but 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:05.960 in Northern Ireland, in the north part of Ireland, now 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.000 in Northern Ireland. Yeah, okay, just just so you know, 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.400 there's a couple of capitals in that isn't there to 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.839 the capital inn and I in the capital but lower 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:19.599 case in. Is that how you're differentiating these slago is 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.000 in the one with the lower case in. This is 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.880 going to get confused. Oh yeah. And Sligo is a 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.679 coastal town of about twenty people, so you know, I'm 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.840 not a city, um of course. I've looked at it 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.000 in Google Earth and the StreetView and it's a charming 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.560 little town. Berg went arrived in Sligo and he went 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.720 to the Sligo City Hotel and checked in. He didn't 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.000 have a reservation, he was a walk in, and interestingly, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.600 the hotel didn't ask to see a passport or I 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.360 D or a credit card or anything. He just paid 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.320 cash up front. Yeah yeah, yeah. And so typically hotels 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.800 usually want to see a driver's license, right something. Yeah, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.680 that wants something to hold in case you philch out 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.000 or you do a bunch of damage or anything like that. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.120 Yeah yeah, I mean they did, they didn't. They did, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.720 they did not. So when he away, when he signed 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.200 into the hotel register, he gave his name is Peter Bergmann, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.800 and he listed an address in Vienna, Austria, which, as 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.960 it turns out, was a vacant lot. Yeah. Yeah uh. 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:20.800 And here's something interesting though, that is the bus station 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.320 in Sligo is right next to a hotel, the site 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.560 of the Sligo Southern Hotel, which basically charges about the 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.920 same rates for room as a Sligo City hotel. And 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.720 if Bergman had taken the route the most obvious easy 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.560 route to go to the city hotel, he would have 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.520 passed by the Clarence Hotel, which also charges about the 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.439 same rates. So instead of going to those hotels, he 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:46.120 went to the Sligo City hotel makes you wonder, well, 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.319 it's out ahead of time. Yeah, it is. It's almost like, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.880 you know, maybe he went there because they wouldn't ask 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.439 to see I d maybe, but how would he know 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.840 that ahead of time? Yeah? Actually, well actually I had 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.800 an email conversation with one of our listeners, Gavin, relating 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.160 to this, and he he told me that there are 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.400 actually a lot of German tourists like to go to 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.800 Western Ireland. It's very pot there there among them. Yeah, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.960 between British people, Americans and Germans are the three heaviest travelers. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.400 So he was saying, it's it's it seems really possible 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:20.839 that he went there. He'd been there before, so yeah, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.280 he might have been familiar with s but he might 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:24.760 have also gotten this. He took a cab to the 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.600 hotel from the bus stations, so he might have gotten 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.040 this from his cab driver too. Maybe his cab driver 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.800 told him. We will never know. Okay, now he's checking 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.120 at the hotel. He's got a shoulder bag which is 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.280 kind of like a laptop bag, and he's got a large, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.679 larger piece of luggage. You guys have seen it on film. 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.440 It's like it's not really a suitcase. It's more like 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.400 a really huge black bag, like a Duffel bag. Now 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:46.840 it's kind of like a it's kind of like a 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.719 big open top bag. It's it's as big as a suitcase. 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:51.880 But you know, imagine those shopping bags that they have 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.679 to have just the two loop handles and they're kind 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.800 of bags. Yeah, okay, yeah, So he had this really 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.560 really great big bag and he had that than his 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.280 laptop bag. That's what he had. According to the close 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:07.280 circuit TV cameras. Uh. He had a heavy accent, probably 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.719 German or Austrian, although there were some people who have 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.600 said they thought he saided more Eastern European. He appeared 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.280 to be sixty years old. He had short white hair, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.080 was wearing glasses, and also wearing a waist length black 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.280 leather jacket. You guys have all you guys have seen. Yeah, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.800 I mean they're really He wouldn't have stood out in 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.400 the crowd. No, not at all. There was nothing weird 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.480 unique about him. No, not at all. Well, anyway, he 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.680 spent the weekend. He checked it on a Friday afternoon. 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.079 I spent the weekend hanging around the hotel. He ate 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.800 in the hotel's restaurant, and he left quite often to 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.960 go out for walks, didn't they to The woman at 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.800 the front desks called him how she referred to him 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:50.400 as a friendly face or a familiar face around. Yeah, 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.000 that she would always see him. Yeah, the whole weekend. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.840 She saw him a lot. He was around. Yeah, but 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.120 he would he would actually would leave quite often too. 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.680 And every time he left he was carrying a purple 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.200 plastic bag. And by some accounts, he left with that 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:08.520 bag thirteen times. And whenever we returned to the hotel, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.280 he didn't have the bag with him. Well, I mean 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:11.880 he may have, like in a pocket or something, but 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.760 he wasn't carrying it full of stuff anymore. Yeah, exactly 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.079 because the stuff the context of the bag had disappeared. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.440 And it's not just when people get the idea. It's 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.280 not a huge bag or anything like that. It's a 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.840 plastic bag that I would say is kind of equal 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.440 in size to what you would get from say a 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.520 grocery store. It's not act full of stuff, but it's 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.640 just a little one. Yeah, it's not a huge bag 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.760 like the kid you get from Forever one when you 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:41.320 just buy a shirt. Yeah, because I always shop it forever. Yeah, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:47.800 I'm not so if I if I shop there, can 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.800 I be again? You are automatically they won't think you're 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.160 just the creepy old man. Yeah, cool, I'm there. Anyway, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.120 I mentioned before the closed circuit TV cameras there not 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:01.840 only is a town all wired up with this close 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.160 circuit TV. I'm gonna call it CCTVs from now. And 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.440 also the City Hotel has has got a lot of 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.240 CCTVs in it also and the guard I that's that's 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.560 what they called the police in uh in Ireland, the 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.840 guard that I investigated this thing. Um. They got the 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.880 CCTV footage from the hotel and from all around town 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:22.920 and started going through it. And that must have been 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.760 a job, yeah, really a lot of TV watching. Uh. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:30.120 They got all sorts of little little bits of video 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.000 of Bergman. He was leaving and entering the hotel, always 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.200 leaving with the purple bag and always returning without it. 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:39.960 There were clips have been walking around Sligo with this 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.000 purple bag and also clips of him without it. But 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.880 you never see him actually doing something like emptying the 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.920 bag and in a trash can, or handing it to 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.120 somebody or throwing it over a wall. Or you know, 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.760 you never see that, so you either see him with 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.840 it or without it. Yeah, and that's I don't know 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.680 if that's a random chance or if he actually was 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.160 well aware of all the CCTVs around town and he 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.120 deliberately avoided doing whatever he did with the contents of 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.720 the purple bag when there was a camera around. The 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.280 funny thing is about that is when you watch him 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:16.160 on the footage, he looks like he's aimlessly wandering around. Yeah, 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.880 and he's not. He's not wandering around like a tourist. 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.520 He's not looking at stuff. He's just walking around. Like 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.200 there's a couple of scenes I remember in the movie 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.760 that you see it and it's like, wait, that's the 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:32.280 same street. He walked down one side and then later 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.600 on up the other side and then came back down. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.480 And I'm sure that they weren't all in the same walk, 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.360 but it's like, do you just one around just ump 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:45.240 and down? Yeah? Yeah, I don't, And I don't know. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.160 I was. I was too lazy to actually, like, you know, 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.960 compare all those things to the actual Google street views, 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.600 so I can thought you'd try to retrace his track 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.240 now that it would be pointless to do that anyway, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.160 since the clips that are in the movie, you don't 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.480 know what if they're even in chronological order, So you 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.360 really can't racist movements that way. Yeah, plus that would 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.080 be a huge job. So well, so we're the contents 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:06.879 of the bat or the bags or the contents of 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.359 the bag where they ever found? No, no, the well, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.600 I letna tell you a little bit about the investigation. 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.960 Oh no, that's okay. Well, what they did is, after 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.880 they discovered this, this whole thing about the purple bag, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.120 they started looking in all the garbage cans around town 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.159 and all the dumpstairs. And he even went down to 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.240 the city dump and dug around with the city dump 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.520 looking for seeing if they could find the contents of 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.920 what he'd been emptying out. And they found nothing because 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.280 they've just found regular garbage. Well, but if he's if okay, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.040 I'm going to run with the idea that he's just 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.840 getting rid of his personal belongings, his underwear, his toothbrush, 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:48.120 you know, shaving kids, kind of generic stuff. It's yeah, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.919 they're you're, oh, well, he always used Crest Sparkle, so 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:53.879 this must be his tube of toothpaste. You have no 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.760 idea it's amongst a whole bunch of other garbage. Yeah, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.800 I know they were just looking for something special, like 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.600 a diary, maybe you know, for a wallet, I guess. 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:07.120 But then you have to wonder, like why, Like I'm 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:10.080 sure there was a dumpster just right outside of the hotel, 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.480 Like why wouldn't he just go and like dump all 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.280 of his stuff in that dumpster? Well, exactly why, Like 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:20.480 why these like very meticulous it's it's it's it's yeah, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.080 it's uh. Well, the police actually formulated a theory, which 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:29.240 is that he was trying to erase his identity because 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.160 I don't know if I don't think I mentioned this, 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.199 but when they found the body, and they obviously took up, 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:36.680 took him for the autopsy, removed the clothes. They also 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.359 found the rest of his clothes down the beach little ways, 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.639 and they found out all the tags from everything, every garment, 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.440 all the tags have been cut out. So once it's 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.040 more like Tom Tom and shoot again, um and so, 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:51.880 And of course there was no idea in the body 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.520 or anything like that. And so the belief was that 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.600 he was trying to erase his identity by getting rid 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.679 of every article of anything that he owned. Yeah, I 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.040 still just I guess. Yeah, I hear that. I just 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:04.840 still I'm not totally sure why I had to be 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.240 in this like very meticulous like spread out around. Well. Yeah, 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.439 the thing about it is is, um, this is what 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.000 I don't like about this theory is that he got 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.919 on a bus and dairy and god knows where he 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.040 was where he was before he was at dairy. But 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:19.879 while it was in dairy, he could have just pitched 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.000 everything into a dumpster. If he was really worried that 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.560 slide open the guard I we're gonna trace its identity. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.000 He could have just pitched all the dunster there or 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.159 wherever he was before then. Yeah, exactly. So that's that's 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.400 that's the problem that I have with the GUARDI theory. Yeah, 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.119 but luckily we've got some other theories to work with. Yeah, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.520 well we were not eies. We'll talk about that. What 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.040 I was gonna say, can we go back there real 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.320 quick to the all the labels in his clothing. Yeah, 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.280 so I know that one of the things that they 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.280 do in the movie is they show, you know, they 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.800 put in front of the camera. Look, they're snipped out, 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.800 and I think it's it's a tag in a shirt. 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.320 It's the tag and his underwear, and it might be 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.280 the tag in his pants, the tagging a speedo to 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:06.600 that speed when Yeah, which are all tags that rub 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.760 against your skin. And I don't know about you, but 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.120 there are certain brands that I always have to cut 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.840 the tags out because I swear to god they're made 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:18.080 out of cardboard with barbed wire on, because they just 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.359 scratched the heck out of you. Yeah, he may have 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.040 been like weirdly sensitive. It's it's fair. But when you 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.720 cut those tags out, do you just you just snip 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.560 right down to the seam right, like as far as 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.120